Welcome back to Crimson, Cask ale, and clavius got Caulfield
joining. You once again, as we didn't
think, we'd be coming back to you this quickly, but we are and
season's over for IU. Men's basketball rough day.
If you were an IU fan in Indianapolis yesterday is the
men lost. I think somewhat expectedly.
Why the women lost unexpectedly now?
The women season still has a lot to go but man, just, I mean both
games happening. Simultaneously Scott for a while
there. It looked like both teams were
going to win. Both teams end up losing, just
kind of a major bummer you. And I ended up talking for like
25 minutes on the phone after the men's game was over and it's
amazing people talk about, you know, the curse of Bob night and
you know like problems with the program overall, like what what
is the issue? The Big Ten Tournament now for
both programs, the women want it once and that was back in 2002.
This is not a playground of dreams for IU basketball.
Men, were women over time. It's really getting annoying.
Yeah, I think, on our last pot, we realize we've never we've
only won two games once. And, you know, we've only been
to like, again, I took mentioned many times like my buddy, Robert
who's Michigan State fan was like, man.
It's the first time we've Michigan.
State's never been played on Friday like then, fuck you.
Hey, what's Friday? They liked it like it, it's like
it is. It's mind-boggling.
How bad will do it. It just it goes to show, you
know, I think this is the sad realization.
We all have to come to like we're not top of that.
We're not an elite program in the Big Ten, like we're not only
program in the country, we're not Elite program in the Big
Ten, like you don't. The Big Ten Tournament has been
around since 98. I was at the first one, where we
also incidentally, won a game and lost two games.
Like that was very prophetic. What we were going to be doing,
you can't just be this bad. Add in your conference
tournament for multiple years, but it's across multiple
presidents. Multiple athletic directors,
multiple coaches, multiple scandals, multiple penalties,
different players, recruits not recruits and it is just it's a
it's indicative of just how far Indiana has fallen.
And I blame bob Knight for not wanting to have a tournament.
The first place like he put the suit on us and if in the first
place saying the tournaments a bad idea so he was right.
I'm not going to blame. Look at the, at the time, I
don't think anybody thought that the tournament was a great idea
in the Big Ten but gosh, I don't know it.
I guess it's as good of an explanation as any as to why the
programs are as bad as they are in this, but it shouldn't extend
to the women. That's against the thing.
It's like, I could see it being a curse for the men.
But anyway, let's talk briefly about the game and then I guess
we're going to talk about the fact that the season's over and
we've got some, some topics to discuss based on that.
Indiana play hearts out there. There are thoughts.
Indiana played about the most Indiana game that we saw of them
all year. In that game against Rutgers.
They were frankly fine for large portions of the game, you know.
It started off with IU on their normal beginning, run at one
point they were up 10:39. And and then, of course, they
stop scoring for 4 minutes and by the time they scored again,
it was whittled down to 20 12. 17 and even with that, you know
you felt like okay I think Indiana is going to be fine.
They went back up by by 9 then it all fell apart and then they
let Rutgers go on a 12-2 run to span the first and second
halves. And then even though it stayed
close, the inevitable collapse was coming, you just wondered
what it was going to happen. As it turned out.
I use collapse happened at the 10-minute Mark of the second
half. They went almost the entire rest
of the game without scoring a Wait, and they didn't score
another basket from the field that whole time, two points from
essentially the 10-minute Mark until the end of the game.
And those were on free throws and it wasn't just missed shots.
It was also missed free throws, just it to me.
It felt so emblematic of what happened to IU down the stretch
over the course of the last part of the season.
They finish up the season on a six-game losing streak.
They finish up this game scoring less than They were point seven,
nine points per possession which is just atrocious.
Like, just, that is as bad as the offense, you know, was it
spots this year? That was maybe it wasn't the
worst, we've seen, but it was among the worst that we've seen
and particularly on a stage where you had a partisan crowd
rooting on, I, you it was both completely expected and also
completely disappointing. Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind
of interesting that are three games against Rucker, Rucker's
are point. Total goes from 72-63, 250.
So you wonder if, you know, we would have met them in the
tournament if it would have been like a, you know, 65 228, type
game. We're starting to get down to
football scores. No, I mean, and this is kind of,
like, to talk to you about, like, it.
It was literally laughable. Like there have been times where
I've been in Dark Places with IU basketball.
Sadly, a lot lately in the last 5 to 15 Years.
But last night was one of the few times I was laughing.
I'm not laughing at the Players, but it's like, when Fitness, he
comes up to hit those free throws and it's like, of course
he's gonna miss them. It's just that's what this
team's going to do and then he does.
I feel bad for the kid but there's no way to just be like,
this is like, it's exactly the way you would script it out of
like, all right, this is a team that's going to fall apart.
Like, if this was a movie and the, you know, and Rutgers was
the hero of the movie. It was, it was slightly funny.
My wife, and I watched a little bit of the assembly call
afterwards and, you know, it's all like, Like you know, you're
two and six against truckers like this is a gift rooker's and
she's like what's up to be a Rutgers family, should being
used this, like Bellwether of like that's a bad program and
you can't do it. But I mean, do you ended your
season on a nine minute run of no field goals?
That is, I mean, that is, I you like we just an inability to
score. And yeah, means and just
head-scratching plays, I mean, you you tweeted this out, we
talked about it, you know, when the, you know, looking at the
three games in the first game, you know, Lander play. 11
minutes, Lander played 13 minutes in the second game.
No, show this game. And I'm saying nothing, Landers
the answer, but it's like Anthony Leo.
Played 16 minutes in the first game against truckers.
All Rucker's games, you know, Leo played Seven Minutes in the
second game, no minutes now, like if you're making the case
for progression of these guys for next year, it's like right
there. Minute totals are going down
throughout the year and then in the biggest game, they played 0
minutes. So why can I even expect?
They're going to be key players into next year - just the fact
that there's not other Our guys here and they have to have
minutes. It's, it's mind-boggling that
you played one, two, three, four, five, six, he played eight
guys. And yet you had a stretch where
you went nine minutes without a field goal.
Like you're telling me you can't like, obviously, those eight
guys aren't working, like there are more players on the team
that is the part that I think is the most stunning for me, is
when you play, you know, eight guys.
And one of them only has 10 minutes.
You must be like, alright, well that's a win or a really close
game and that you found the lineup.
That was humming It's like oh no during that time we created went
nine minutes about appealable. Yeah.
It's I think it was one of the weird aspects of the game that I
don't know if we're supposed to read into it or not.
But there was a weird lack of urgency not just from the
players but also from the coaching staff, when presented
with the lizard like the actual end of the season.
I mean, that was that was it? That was the season.
Like you're not getting, you're not getting an NCAA bid if you
lose this game. You're not.
Getting in nit bid, if you lose this game, you season is
completely over because if you lose your 12 and 15 and yet I
didn't see anything new. There was some urgency and some
effort at the beginning and frankly there was a wild or even
into the second half where I'm like, I think Indiana is going
to win this. Like, I think they're, I think
that they've they've captured whatever minute, like minimal
amount of momentum and effort that you re probably Brown the
football. Well, it's not.
I mean, it wasn't that I wasn't I wasn't disappointed or When we
lost but I did think the way that I was playing Rutgers
really was struggling with their offense.
Like it wasn't like Rutgers was Stellar Rutgers was having
trouble with, you know, there were IU is getting drives into
the lane that they hadn't gotten in quite a while.
I hadn't gotten in the last Rutgers game.
And yet, when you came down to the actual point in time, where
the game turned, it just kind of felt like I you Let It Go like
the coaching staff again. Yeah.
You mentioned that you're not trying all of your options, even
though you're not hitting from anywhere the the defensive
breakdowns they were the same defensive breakdowns, you know?
I mean that, that, that one kid the was at Mulcahy kid ends up
hitting two, threes from the same spot in the corner and it's
like after the first one, it should have been like we should
make sure that that guy gets covered as opposed to constantly
collapsing down the whole time. It just it smacked of what I
think we've Talked about on this podcast a few times, which was a
coaching staff, that just seemed to be out of ideas with how to
get this team to do what they wanted to do.
But also a group of players who didn't seem to have a great
plan, put in front of them, and also didn't necessarily have the
will to execute it in the way that you needed for victories.
And that's not I'm not excusing. The coaching staff with that.
But I will say that across the board.
It felt like everybody just kind of didn't want it as badly as
Rutgers wanted it down the stretch and that's a really
tough thing to think about. If you're an IU fan, it's not a
surprise. I mean, no no.
But you know, thinking about it all the way down the stretch,
not just in that game. But in all of these other games,
all these must-win games. Starting with that first
Michigan State game at home. It's easy to forget now.
But coming off, that Minnesota game on the 17th.
Of February, you know, less than a month ago.
I you was 12 and 9, they were 500 in conference and
legitimately probably all they needed to do from that point.
Forward was win, two games and they won none.
They 10 games at all. In that whole stretch and all
the teams they played, Michigan state twice, Rutgers, Michigan,
Purdue Rutgers again in the tournament.
They all when it mattered seemed to have more willpower, Than
this IU team has. And, and that is about as
fitting of an Epitaph as you can put on this season as any that I
can think of right now. Yeah, I mean, there is a, there
was a weird moment in the middle of the second half, where
Indiana went on a run and it was like they went up like 40 42 43
years somewhere, right in that range and like we had hit a
couple shots and then we hit two shots in a row and it almost
look like the team was like, all right, well, we did it like we
scored in three straight possessions.
Like we're ahead like That's it. And then it's like they just let
go of all interest. It's like, alright, we did what
we had to do. Like, is that the game's over,
like Rutgers must be giving up now?
And it's like, no other teams come back.
It also got me thinking your deeper into some of these stats
sites than I am. I would love to know the last
game that we hit three consecutive threes, like the
three threes in a row. We hit hit hit because I feel
like that happens against us all the time, or at least, you know,
teams, go like back-to-back me. Made threes.
Like I would love to know last time we made back-to-back made
threes, but I would say three in a row like just three, three
point shots back-to-back-to-back.
When's the last time that happened for us, which is
Bonkers to say that, but I would venture to say, it may not have
happened this season. I think we need to get Tony a
draw me on this because he certainly has that somewhere in
his files, but it's a good point.
Like they're just the it, Laura, it fits into this larger
narrative with this IU team right now, which is they do
something good and then That effort is to some degree wasted
because it's almost never followed up with the next good
thing that you need to do to, you know, to make things happen
on on a consistent basis throughout the course of a game.
And you do see other teams going on these runs.
And it's not even a matter of, you know, I you not having runs
per se but it is part of it. It's this, it's this whole
conceptualization of we made this great offensive play.
Well, that's good enough. And it's not like well, let's
build. Off it and and this to some
degree, I think mentally leads to a lot of the problems that I
you faces. I've you and I were talking
about this last night, I don't know that I've ever watched
another team that struggled so badly when faced with adversity
and when faced with problems on the court, when things stop
going their way, they're incapable of picking themselves
up off the mat for many minutes and that to me is a real problem
with the way that Team is pieced together from a strategic
perspective. From a logistics perspective,
from a motivational perspective, they just don't look like.
They believe in themselves, they do for stretches.
And then when something happens where they no longer believe in
themselves, it takes a long time for them to come back from that.
And that's a hard thing to pin on any one aspect of the
program. But I think it to some degree
helps to explain both the shooting problems that this IU
team has and the defensive lapses.
Has that led them to be one of the worst defensive teams in the
conference again this year, which is the defensive system,
relies on a lot of communication, relies on a lot
of positioning but also a lot of confidence in what you're doing
and what your teammates are doing offensively.
As we know shooting much like pudding is about believing that
you're going to hit the shot believing that you're you know,
when you put it up you're going to be in good shape and it's
amazing to watch guys, Rob Fitness.
He's a great example of this guy's that will hit layups or
hit. It closed in shots at times when
they're in the flow of things and when things are going well
and then in the same game, sometimes a minute later.
They'll miss a shot and immediately, they're incapable
of shooting again, it's a really weird phenomenon and I feel like
we saw it a little bit in 2014 with that cream team, that
didn't make the tournament that scene was really bad offensively
and to send to some degree. It was just the wrong Personnel
sets, but there also were some issues with a lot of times the
team just didn't look like they believed in what they were
doing. But beyond that, it's hard to
think of another ayehu team that struggled.
Juggled as much. I guess you could go back to
some of the Davis years with just having these long stretches
where they didn't look like, they knew what they were
supposed to do and they didn't believe that they were going to
be able to do what needed to be done.
And that that's been a Hallmark of their Archie Miller era is
that that's been if you want to point to one thing that is
consistent across the four years that Archie Miller has been
here. It's been these long stretches
of a lack of belief that his team has won it at the the micro
becomes the macro because you know, as I look at the four
years under arches Every single year kind of has these stretches
in the season where the team just kind of falls off and had
they just been able to win. Like, if I look at you, there's
real quick. Look at 2018, they finished 16
in 1599 and Conference, that a four-game losing streak in
January to February. And they finish the season on a
three-game losing streak. It's like, if they wouldn't two
of those seven games, maybe they're in the tournament, you
know, 2019 obviously had the very famous.
What like, you know, they lost one, two, three, four, five.
You'll see. Evan games, they beat, Michigan
State, and they lost five more. It's like, if they could have
just one, two or three, there may be there in the tournament.
You know, last year, they had a stretch where they lost four in
a row, then they lost three of their last four, like, they go
in these wounds than this year. Again, they finished the year,
losing five in a row, like the micro, is the macro, with this
team where it also goes through these stretches, where it's
losing four, five, six games in a row.
And it's like if they would just would have been able to change
things up in the game where you don't have a 9 Minute stretch
where you're breaking down. And then maybe you also don't
have a five-game stretch where you're losing five in a row and
honestly that's the margin of error isn't.
That's the really frustrating part here is we haven't fallen
off a cliff. Feels like we have, but the
margin of error isn't that bad? Where it's like, you could
replace two or three games every season and we have four straight
tournaments in us possibly. Yes.
It's, there's so many things that are systematically wrong
right now with the program that it's hard to say.
Okay, if we took the Losing streaks out that they would have
made it. I mean, I guess theoretically,
yes, but the losing streaks. Are the systemic problem.
Like the things that yeah, they aren't the, they aren't the
cause as much as they are the effect.
And that is the bigger issue, and it's like, I mean, the
quote, from the postgame press conference yesterday that Archie
had about, oh, you know, will be fine.
Like, IU, basketball is fine. I'll come back to something that
we've talked about quite a bit this year, Scott, based on what,
like based on what evidence are you saying, oh, we're going to
be I'm I I just when I think about what's happened over the
last four years, and I think about the mentality shift that
was supposed to take place with IU basketball where it was
supposed to become this hard-nosed.
Aggressive defense, first approach to playing basketball
That was supposed to bring Indiana to a higher plane than
what they were achieving under crean.
Which was a team that was capable of great successes
winning, Big Ten titles, and Two sweet. 16s.
What was also capable of flatlining?
Immediately afterwards in this, it was the roller coaster.
That was the problem. You know, cream.
I think could probably have made a case that oh, we'll be fine.
This is a hiccup. It was, it was like, okay, maybe
you're right, maybe you'll you know be in the mix for a Big Ten
title in the next year. But this isn't good enough.
I don't know what evidence you would point to given this year's
team last year's team. The team that year before this
three-year sample that were you would say yeah, we're going to
be fine like everything. He's going to be okay is if it's
just hope we'll hope is not a plan.
If so if you're looking at something tangible to say, IU
basketball, still in good trajectory and this was a hiccup
and yes we had injury issues and stuff even with even without the
injury issues, it just seemed like a year where everything was
not anywhere close to adequate. And I don't know that
necessarily even the like even if you have everybody healthy
throughout the course of the year, Are, are you finishing
with a winning record? Are you finishing?
You know, in the top six of the conference, I don't I don't
really see it because it felt to some degree on some nights.
Like it didn't even matter, who was on the floor, the outcome
was going to be the same regardless.
You were going to have a game that you had a Long offensive
drought in. And you were going to there was
going to be a game where you just blew out an opponent or
anything like that. The scenarios of the games we're
going to be somewhat similar to what we saw, regardless of who
was on the floor. So that comments.
Go out to me because I get as a coach.
You have to say that I just don't know what you're basing
that off of other than trying to calm people's fears.
That the things are going off the rails.
When indeed it looks like things are going off the rails or have
gone off the rails. Yeah I mean I'll go on the
record now you know, because what will happen is we will talk
about the offseason here in a second.
But you know let's just say nothing changes in Archie comes
back. Like there's going to be people
who try and find the positives which I always appreciate and
looking at next year. It's a All right.
Well, you know, this could happen if that could happen but
if you look at it You know, you look at some of the players like
all right you know this is as good as Trace faction.
Davis is going to get I mean for him to get better he's got to
have outside defense and outside shooting and obviously this
coaching staff. That's not a priority because
he's taken as of now, zero three point shots this entire season.
So unless something drastically changes, this is, this is as
good as Trace Jackson, Davis will get maybe a slight bit
better. You know, people point to race
Thompson and Armand, Franklin's I got race Thompson, got better
but his last you know, five games.
He scored two points, 11 84 and Or it's like I'm not picking on
Race but it's like our he got better, but he's still
inconsistent, you know, in our bond Franklin played a lot
better. And I know there's some injury
issues the end but even if you look at a stretch, you know, in
the middle of the Season against Iowa, he scored 11 points 1411
great, but then went for against the Iowa win.
But then 23. But then three, I mean he had
kind of his up and downs to, you know, we we know I'm not going
to pick on fennessy or Alderman then it's like people are going
to be like, all right well, you know, Landers five-star, he's
coming back like he reclassifies Right age now it's like dude
he's since Iowa on February 10th.
Here's his game score points 0 0, 0, 0, 0 7, 7 0 DN P.
Like that's not a guy who's on trajectory to suddenly take over
and be like to somebody say olander's going to be a starting
point guard in the Big Ten and be like an all Big Ten player.
It's like based on what like that's like saying I'm ready to
play the Big Ten like there's no evidence.
I'm not picking on Christian Lander but it's like I, I don't
see where you get the optimism outside of just having five
months to not think about it and come back.
And be like, oh, yeah, like guys can get better.
And this is the fallacy as you can.
This team could be good if everybody has the Oladipo leap
but like, that doesn't happen. Like not every single player has
an off season where they absolutely kill it.
Some guys are going to get better.
Some guys are going to get worse.
Some guys are going to Flat Line.
Some guys are probably going to transfer, you know, but I'm with
you. Don't know what you base this
off. Of course Archie come out and
say that but yeah, it's I don't know.
I mean you could you could certainly point to arm on
Franklin's development from last year to this year and last year
he wasn't very good and he didn't play that much
comparatively speaking and he certainly played better this
year but he still wasn't like if you look at his overall stats
Armand Franklin he suffered from injury so I'm not I'm certainly
not trying to be critical. This is more.
Just if you're if you're talking about development and where you
think it will go, his offensive rating last year, 89.1.
That's not very good. His offensive rating this year
was ninety 7.4, which is better, but he's still under one point
per possession used. He still turned the ball over
on. 20% of the possessions that he used his, three-point
shooting was very good. His two-point shooting was
worse, like he was a 46% shooter last year from to he's a 43%
shooter this year from to. So yes, you did see some
increases but it wasn't the Oladipo leap.
As you mentioned. It wasn't, you know, some of the
leaves that we've seen players, take in terms of getting really
good from year one to year two. Some of that was injury and I
think if you'd seen an uninjured arm on Franklin you probably
would have seen better. But would you have seen like
tremendously better in this offensive system?
Probably not based upon what everybody else did in this
offensive system. So That's where I am with you,
where it's just like, I don't know what you're basing, the
hope of things on. I mean, only three guys on this
team, finished with an offensive rating above 100, that's really
bad. And none of them were above
1108. I think race.
Thompson was the highest on the roster the guys that you would
need to be scoring more Jerome Hunter, Armand, Franklin.
As we mentioned, you know, Trey Galloway Anthony wheel.
All those folks were under a point per possession used and
that's just that's not going to get the the job done.
And I don't see anything in where this system is currently
being, you know, coached where that it's going to essentially
increase, the ability of people to score and then that's leaving
the defensive aspects out of it entirely where.
Yeah, anyway, so we got a butt and what's, what's interesting?
Like I keep on coming back to us.
I thought about it a lot last year but I think about it more.
Now is something you and I talked about a little bit last
night. Like there's still a trace
checks and Davis. It's This was a great season
that kind of gets pissed away. There's a lot of Talent on this
team and you do it's not the best quality but it's just been
going through my head. Like, you look at Dayton after
Archie left and the second year after their 12:21 and 12 13 and
5 in the A-10 last year, their 29 and to have the second-best
adjusted offense in the country. It's like those were our cheese
guys that got out of Archie's offensive system and suddenly
went 18 and 0 in the in the A-10 like that.
There's a there's a part here where you're like, I don't like
it's not comforting to know that Dayton kind of went off
offensively the minute Archie left.
Well, it's something to think about certainly and it's, it's
an interesting. Anecdote.
Anyway, so let's talk done talking about the game.
Let's talk about the bigger picture issues which is where
most of the questions and comments that we had came in
from. There's a bunch of different
places that we could start with this certainly But let's let's
tackle the big issues, I guess, right off the bat.
So, you know, the first thing I'm going to read a few of these
tweets and, and then we'll kind of dive into whatever we want to
dive into Jack, Schneider tweeted at us.
I have no questions or thoughts for the podcast, but you all
have my thoughts and prayers. Because having to talk about the
program, these days is not fun. Thank you, Jack.
We appreciate it. Okay, Steven Carter.
Her comment there's no to the guys at assembly call the fact
they do a post game after every game like those guys are heroes.
The fact that Jared and that crew Ryan like you know Andy
they're on their coach they're on their every single game
talking about it for an hour and a half.
Like that's way more than we could do.
Well done guys. Comment from Steven Carter there
is no hero or savior. Coming.
Only hard work and commitment will get us where we want to go.
If you hire a coach, to a seven-year contract, you should
stick to it. Let's see, let's with some other
comments here. Ross Baker, seventy seven
hundred. Twenty nine thousand living
alumni. 10 million dollar buyout.
Do they take venmo yet or do I need to write a thirteen dollars
and seventy one cent check. Let's see.
JD Gabby. Has this team done anything from
a basketball fundamental standpoint?
Well, in the last four years they don't pass well they don't
dribble. Well they don't shoot well why
don't we have a director of Player Development on the staff
so I'm not going. To specifically talk about that
second one, I will say this. If you're looking for the
positives from the past four years, in terms of what are the
fundamental things I you as done?
Well, you know, I mean, they're, they're pretty good at blocking
shots. There are always in the top 100
and and until this year, they were in the top 50 every year in
terms of block percentage on defense rating, Getting to the
free-throw line. They are, they are there.
They were an elite team this year at free-throw rate, they
were pretty good this year at not turning the ball over all
things considered they were top hundred in that, you can look at
the the offensive and defensive efficiency numbers and say, oh
well, they were, you know, pretty good there.
They were 60 first in offense, and 40th and defense.
The problem is within the conference, they were bad in
both of those things relative to the rest of their competition.
And, you know, we've talked a lot about the numbers and how
like, oh, offense was, Better than we expected and defense was
worse, offense, actually ended up being fairly bad, they
finished with an offensive efficiency and Conference of
100.8, which sadly was lower than Penn State's offensive
efficiency. This here in conference and then
defensively, they were 12 in the conference and really just kind
of incrementally ahead of the bottom two which were
Northwestern in Minnesota. So really I mean if we're
talking about what is this team done?
Well, fundamentally over the course of the four years of the
archery Miller era. Certainly not shooting they and
and it's interesting because you know, three-point shooting has
been bad. This was actually a pretty good
to point shooting team in Archie's first two years and now
with all of the numbers and they've gone from 52 and a half
percent to 53 percent to forty nine and a half percent, to
forty eight and a half percent, which means and this year, forty
eight and a half percent from two was 229th in the country.
So even one of the few bright spots for IU from a fundamental
perspective. Ended up not being a bright spot
at all as far as the. What does that all mean?
Again, it kind of comes back to what we've talked about, where
it's like, if you're going to say oh things will be fine.
Look at the statistical Trends over four years and tell me what
you see there, that makes you think things are going to be
fine, even the gradual overall increase in offensive, and
defensive efficiencies stopped the.
I mean offense essentially flatlined relative to the rest
of the country and defense got worse.
Tempo got slower assist rate went down.
I mean, just the overall assist numbers went up but the like the
way that the assists were being divvied out.
Just yeah, not good. Yeah, I was thinking about it
today. I went out for a quick run.
I have a neighbor who takes their kids to karate with with
my son James, and the last couple weeks is when she's in
saying, we're going to go for the yellow belt, if we're in it
to the yellow, but we're going to do.
Karate and she's been like saying, you know, we're on track
to do the yellow belt and just yesterday, she's like, oh yeah,
we're on track to quit karate. We're just we're tracking, the
kids are not into it, we're on track like we're going to get it
but we run as far as a funny way to say it but it's like our
cheese on track to get fired. Like that's what he's on track
for right now. There's nothing here.
Like I'll just kick it off. There's nothing here that says
this is on the correct trajectory, there's nothing
going. That should be there, this is
something. I mean, there's a lot of reasons
we can talk about why? You need to keep Archie Miller.
I think the buyout is just saying ten million dollars.
I think is lazy reporting is a lot of things that factor into
that. I don't think it's that hard to
get that much money and he'll get another job and he'll get
paid somewhere else. All that said, I just I'm with
you. We can sit here and talk about
this. Like in the end it's points.
It's wins and losses and they just haven't been there.
We can start dissecting the data and there's little areas that
are better. A little areas that are worse,
but it's not a team that wins. It's not a team.
That's just I test fun to watch. Ouch interest for me is going
down. I think for a lot of people it's
going down. It's time to move on.
Like I just don't see why you'd come back into this.
This. So I want to hit this stat.
It's something that I talk to you about off the Pod the other
day, but I think it's, I think it's really interesting.
You look at Archie the last four years in the Big Ten is thirty
three and forty. Four, forty three percent
winning percentage. I tried to find three other
coaches who are also fired in the Big Ten.
And I'm just looking at Big Ten only record.
So I know it's a very specific stat.
There's some other underlying issues In other things at play
there, but John Groce at Illinois was 29 and 43 for 40%.
That was bad enough at Illinois to be fired.
Tubby Smith was 29 and 43 in the Big Ten is last four years. 40%
he was fired, Tim miles was 31 and 43. 42 percent, pretty much
name is Archie but he also to 13 and five year in there.
He was fired. And my point to you is like this
wasn't good enough. That basically these numbers are
pretty much the same again, big tent, only four years.
Understand some of those guys were there long grrrr.
This wasn't good enough in Illinois.
Wasn't good. At Minnesota, wasn't good enough
in Nebraska. My question to Scott Dawson, if
he came on this podcast, like why the hell is a good enough
here? But just what like any other
reason? Like you can give me all the
other stats and this is trending this way and that way it's like,
all right, there's three other teams in recent history who had
very similar records in the Big Ten, who I view as lower-level
Big Ten teams in Indiana and we all do because we talked about
banners and all that stupid nonsense which seems like stupid
nonsense now and we About being an elite team.
It's like all right, why are we in the same category?
And the same phylum is Illinois, Minnesota, and Nebraska.
Yeah, your we talked about this before and it got me thinking
and the only real rationale that I could give as to why it would
be not actionable. Immediately would be that gross
was there. Five years?
Not for small, obviously very small distinction, you know,
miles had been there for what I think.
Seven years when when he finally got let go and hadn't been to
the tournament in five gross went to the tournament his first
year, but didn't go the rest of the time.
And then, you know, would you say, tubby Smith was the other
one that you looked at me Smith? Yeah.
And I mean, tubby had been at Minnesota for six years.
So, even the time period, like, if you wanted to say, well,
look, all those coaches got at least one more year, maybe in
some cases, two or three, but then it goes back to something
that you have made a point of many times.
Which is this idea of well. Okay.
But that's what 10. And Minnesota and Nebraska all
teams that. If you're an IU fan, you don't
consider yourself in that phylum.
Like, you, you're certainly thinking.
We're, we're more evolved than that, from a basketball
perspective. And so I do, I do think it's a
legitimate question, because even if you factor in the
tournament appearance that wasn't last year, they mean,
that was something that required beating Nebraska in the Big Ten
Tournament to even secure the bid.
And It wasn't like it was a great season, it wasn't like
you're a single-digit seed or vying for a protected seed,
you're talking about an IU team. That would have been in the
play-in game or would have been, you know, maybe a 10 or 11 seed
or a 12C, that's not good. And, and certainly again, you
know, so much of this comes back to the mythology that I, you
spins around its basketball program, where you say we are,
we think we're Blue Blood, we think we're in Elite program.
I you had one good season. And you know, they're pretty
T-shirts that say we're back, you know, back in the early
2010's like, you know, Mike Davis got fired because missing
the tournament, two years in a row, was considered to be
inadequate. But Davis on your Davis is Big,
Ten record is last four years. Was better than this.
It is. Yes.
And so there is our own expectations have gone down
based on that. Yeah.
So I think all of those things are worth thinking about when
you try to think about the overall setup, With with this
program. So we have some questions
specifically about this. We might as well just dive in,
it's the it's the big elephant in the room.
So William Fulmer asks, what happens?
If for some reason I you doesn't move on.
Like we all think that they will.
I don't know that everybody thinks that they will.
First of all, William, I think there's a lot of people who
don't think that I use going to make a change.
Will see, I wasn't expecting anything to happen today.
If anything was going to happen, but I do think.
That if I you isn't going to make a change, if they're going
to bring Archie Miller back for another year and we've talked
about the rationale either direction Ad nauseam on this.
So, you know, there's, there's certainly reasons why financial
reasons the feeling like you need to give a person more time
on the contract that you initially gave them.
If you're going to do that, I think the press conference needs
to happen today. I think the press conference
needs to happen Friday, the 12th of March the season.
Did yesterday, it is going to be a nightmarish next week or days
or however long until there's some kind of resolution within
the IU fan base. It is not a good place, it's a
toxic place right now. You go to the message boards.
Don't represent everything but they represent a lot of pretty
invested IU fans who are very angry Twitter.
Again, not necessarily representative but it's very
visible. If your answer the game Last
night who are visiting the fans of the game who like a lot of
people on Twitter were, you know we're very upset with all you
fans, booing IU players, booing Archie.
And and look that's it's not a good look but it's also I'm not
shocked that it happened, you know.
It doesn't surprise me that you know, an IU fan base that was
desperately trying to find something to root for with this
team. Just got presented with the same
thing that they've been presented with, you know, for
the last four years. Essentially.
And that Reacted negatively not excusing them but I'm not
surprised that it happened. You need to if your eye you and
you have the strength of your convictions and saying look, we
know that this isn't popular but Archie Miller is going to be
back for another season. We feel like he deserves it, we
feel like it's best for the program, do it now.
It's not going to be any better if you do it next week.
Yeah. And so that's my that's mix.
It's a great Point. Makes a lot of sense you know.
And so and lay the reasons out and be like look we don't think
what's happened. Here is good enough and and and
lay out specifically, here's the roadmap.
And if We don't meet, you know, the roadmap, then there's will,
then we'll have to reconsider what's going on with the future
of the program. And if that puts Archie Miller
Under Pressure, I mean, I guess what he should be under pressure
anyway, given the way that things have gone with this
program. Similarly, if you are going to
move on I think you need to figure that out really fast and
make an announcement on that as well.
And again, it's because people need to have some kind of an
idea of how to fix Yo about things and if you are going to
move in a different direction you better put yourself out in
front of other programs that are going to be making changes
because you need to get the best possible candidate list that you
can choose from to figure out what your next step is.
And if you're not, you need to let the storm subside so that
people can get the the vitriol out of their system, get the
disappointment out of their system and just get on with the
offseason because the longer it lingers the worse.
It's going to be No, I think that's I've not heard that
around a lot. That's a very interesting point.
I completely agree with it because that's kind of what
happened near. The end of the crean era is that
you and I were on the side but we wanted to move on from crean
but that last offseason it's like it was just there was no
information and so it's the toxic sludge kind of got to
fester and grow and, you know, golson's job is not to take care
of the IU fanbase and, you know, people being unhappy, but on the
flip side, he is like you've got to keep people invested
interested. And I agree that just not
knowing anything for the next five or six weeks or like, if
they just don't say anything for the next month, like it's just
it's going to get worse because you're going to have people
saying he should stay or people saying he should go a lot of
infighting. Like and that's the last thing
this fan base needs is, we that's all we've been doing is
like either, you're a knight guy, you're a Davis guy and then
it's like, you're Pro Davis or your anti night and then it's
like, all right, we're Samson's like, oh shit.
Now we're not Samson. Now, we're creaming now we're
good. But now I hate Korean that way
or for cream. Like, we still want night, guys,
like we've been. Heard a thousand different ways.
We need to come together and I agree with you.
If Dolson came out today and just said, hey we're keeping our
chief or these five reasons I wouldn't agree with it.
But hearing you say that now I'd be like, okay, like I'm we don't
need to do five more podcast this offseason about.
Should he stay who's the best option?
Like why he needs to be fired? You know, you don't need
assembly, call doing 50 of the same things.
You don't eat inside the hall, right?
Like you're going to get everybody.
Just stop talking about it and you're not going to go with the
next year with fans being like I've got a boo or, you know,
start Free me and Archie Miller dirt because I know he's got
next year. So I think it's a very fair
point. I think it's something that up
to this point. The IU Administration is not
normally done normally. They just kind of stay quiet and
just make their own decision and don't say anything.
I agree with you, I think they need to make a call one way or
the other. I think, I think, at this point,
you do need to come out and say, look, we're keeping, we're going
to keep him or like you said, just we're moving on and then
let's find the list. The the comments we've gotten
from people on Twitter, kind of track down two different roads
one Is tracking down the road of, if Archie's not leaving.
What is the next year, look like.
And what needs to change the other one is essentially, if
Archie's gone, what's the next step?
So, I want to take both of those tracks.
So let's start with the second one.
First, we had a question from. Let me find it here from will
Sheehy burner, nice. Nice day.
Good. Good, we appreciate good.
Twitter handles here. Do you think Miller should still
be fired even if there isn't a top candidate interested /
available. So my philosophy Sophie on, this
is always been as follows the question of whether or not
someone is working for. You is different than the
question of who should replace the person that's working for
you. If the person that's working for
you is not good at what they're doing.
If what they're doing is not working, you cannot let the
unknown of who would replace them affect your decision to
retain or not retain that person.
And I think a lot of times when we talk about coaching
situations, not just that, I you, but Elsewhere.
A lot of the question marks always pop up around.
Well, who would you, who would get the job?
Like what you know, where's the candidate that would be
obviously better than this person and it doesn't work that
way. We talked about this one when
crean got fired because a lot of people said well you're not
going to get somebody better than crean and certainly Archie
Miller hasn't been better than crane but his credentials were
fine coming in. You know these credentials
certainly fit all the they checked all the boxes of who you
would want to replace. Tom crean with it is didn't
work. So to me it's like if you're
Scott Dolson and the Board of Trustees and you're looking at
this and you say to yourself what's going on right now is
inadequate, it is not meet the standards of IU that has to be
the only determinant that you make in whether or not you're
going to retain a coach or not retain a coach not.
Well this is not adequate but we don't have a better position or
their better person already positioned to take over so
therefore we're not going to make a change.
I think that that's where you get into a lot of institutional
Trouble. Well I think that's also I
agree. I think it's also where we get a
little bit too close-minded in our thinking that we're only
looking for coaches. Who've had really good
tournament success and who are programs where they can leave.
So like chefs, he's not going anywhere where Williams not go
anywhere. So some of the are our list
becomes very small. It's got, it was Chris beard and
that's it. But it's like but again, like if
you would have said three years ago to a Michigan fan, like,
hey, be careful if you lose be line, you may not get Juwan
Howard. They be like, who cares what
Howard is a coach? Like the eye, the eye.
You're 100%, right? Because the best next coach
could be somebody that we haven't even thought of.
And I would say that to IU Administration is if you're
doing this search like open your mind up, like it doesn't have
we've seen time and time again. We're seeing now, just because
you're at a mid-major and had one good run in the tournament,
you may not be a good coach you maybe.
But I don't know. I think the problem is hanging
on too long but this idea of like we can only do it when the
time is right. For this perfect candidate.
I don't think anybody really knows.
Knows what the perfect candidate is.
Because again, four years ago, Archie was a really good
candidate. It hasn't worked out.
There is another good candidate. This offseason, I don't know if
we know who it is, and it could be somebody without coaching
experience. Could be something that's kind
of coaching experience. We don't know.
I mean, that's the thing. I think the two decisions have
to be made separately, right? But you could look, I'll use a
name from last night's game like, Steve pikul.
That's a guy who is still relatively young and has taken a
Rutgers program that hasn't been to the CAA tournament since 1991
and is essentially turned them into a team that's in the
tournament two years in a row, if you give them credit for, you
know, being what was projected as a single-digit, see, last
year, it's Steve pikul, you know, the best candidate for the
job, probably not, but he's a pretty good candidate, but
that's not a name. You hear floated around that
much and I'm not advocating for that.
If there is indeed an opening, but the idea that there's that
you have to have one connected to the other.
I don't agree with that at all. And so that's I think, Think,
how about I'll close up my commentary there.
Let's see. Matt blasket, asks, or actually
says, we are now five years from our last NCAA appearance.
Prove me wrong. That we aren't Nebraska
football. I can't I mean the only thing
that I use missing is having a former player come in and fail
miserably as head coach. That Nebraska is like one step
ahead of us in football. From that perspective with the
Scott Frost experiment, not working very well but there are
a lot of parallels that you could draw between the collapse
of Nebraska football from its Heights in the 1990s to where
they're at now. I think you can make a similar
argument about IU and Miami. Ball.
I tend though, to here's the thing, I'll say this, I think
that Both programs are probably in similar boats in that, they,
they still believe that they are relevant on a national stage.
Whereas there, they're really not.
I think the difference is, it's very hard with the wrong people
in charge to get, you know, either a football or basketball
program up to top level, but it's easier to turn it around
faster and basketball than it is in football.
You really have to have some special sauce in football to get
yourself back up to an elite level.
Level. We were seeing this with IU
football where it's like it took hiring Tom Allen and him being
as good as he is to put I you in a position of relevance
Nebraska. There's a lot of, there's some
cultural issues at play, in terms of who they feel is
capable of coaching them, which due to some degree.
I think track with IU basketball, but I do think I you
basketballs probably got an easier path back to being Elite
as we saw with cream where it's like people were asking, you
know, at that point. when I you went back to the Sweet 16 by
that point, it had been essentially a decade people ask
whether that was ever going to happen again and then and yet
they were right back and they were number one the following
year, the better analogy might be Notre Dame football in terms
of the potential ceiling for IU basketball where you know, Notre
Dame football was not good there for a while and it really
struggled and it would poke through and then it would
Retreat again it might be a similar sort of situation where
if you can get the right person, IU basketball, can come back but
certainly in terms of Fallen Empires and a lack of
present-day Glory Nebraska's, you know, football program is a
pretty good analog for what I use got right now in basketball.
Yeah, I hate this discussion because it's just depressing and
when I hear this it's like I have I have my answer to and
it's not anything you mentioned because I hear this and it's
like, all right. Yes, Nebraska like they were you
know twelve and one in 1999 like they were going to Orange
holiday Fiesta Bowl is in the late 90s like they were still
humming at a time. When IU basketball was starting
to tail off, you mentioned Notre Dame it's like even just a
couple of years ago they were in the BCS final four you know
where as we haven't been The final four in years, you know, I
almost I was having this crush with a friend.
We're trying to figure out what is the analog value basketball.
I'm kind of thinking like maybe UCLA, but it's like, well, shit,
they want to title a 95. I'd take that, you know,
honestly, it's not perfect, but it almost feels a little bit
like NC State in basketball, like NC State had a nice run in
the 80s and I know we have more titles than them, but it's kind
of like them. Or you might have said, like,
Virginia back in the day, but they've come back, you know?
Have said Louisville, but they've also come back.
Like, I'm trying to think of those teams that won titles in
the 80s and kind of fell off the map in college basketball
because my buddy was like, well, maybe you contact.
No man, no, you can't set a lot of success recently.
It's really tough but honest like I think NC State to me is
kind of that team because they percolated here and there, well,
we've had more success than them.
I don't know if this is a this topic sucks because it's, I know
press the differences in. NC State's never been any more
than the third most demanding. I know.
And that's why it's not perfect in their own State.
Yeah, no I get it. But look, however, you want to
and analogize the situation. It's the core issues are the
same with IU basketball. As they are with Nebraska where
you have a fan base and an athletic department that base
their their fandom in their marketing off of being a blue
blood being an elite program with a key historical aspect to
things and that's all that you've got because There's
nothing distinguishing your program from the teams, in the
bottom, half of your conference, to use it as a log.
We should just start like I have as much but hey we're going to
play in the ACC like we're done with a Big Ten like screw this.
We're going to start playing Duke change it all changes.
Best for no I don't think that's it.
Anyway a few other questions we're going to try to keep this
to an hour but let's let's jump to a different track here.
So we had a bunch of questions about The other side of things.
So, Ross Bennett asked assuming Archie is not let go with the
fan base settle. If they brought in a new
offensive assistant to lead the offense, there was another
question in a similar vein, which it was from Hoosier sound,
good podcast, by the way, should check it out.
If the coaching staff stays what needs to change to have more
success next year. And a lot of focus has been paid
on, get an offensive assistant and get someone who can Can
really help to guide what IU is doing.
But that was being said, last year to let you know that was
that was the big deal. It's like, well, you got to get
somebody in who can help this team score better.
And yet we really didn't see that kind of a change being
made. I think that if that was to
happen, It might partially Like, You Know, lesson people's
concerns. But I think the bigger issue
right now isn't so much the offensive schematics as much as
it is, it is that the fan base by and large has just lost all
faith and confidence in Archie, Miller to coach this team and
because if they brought in an assistant to do offense and the
offense got better my take Nick's your bag.
All right, let's fire Archie and hire that guy.
I mean and it's yeah it's kind of The another imperfect
analogy, but it's like when the Colts, you know, made the
playoffs in almost made the Super Bowl in 95 and they, you
know, Ted marchibroda is the head coach.
And it's like, you know, at the end of that season, they're
worried about losing the offensive coordinator to a head
coaching job. So they fire marchibroda and
higher, Lindy, and fauna is the head coach, and that didn't work
very well. So, that would be, but it's a
similar sort of mentality there. I, I don't think that an
offensive assistant alone is going to be enough to make
people suddenly trust the coaching approach.
That's been taken by IU over the course of the last four years
and whether it's just a huge sequence of bad luck and
unfortunate timing. That's LED things to be the way
that they are or whether it's truly something.
Systemic, it doesn't really matter because I think the fan
base at the end of the day, looks at this situation and says
we do not feel like Archie Miller is capable of coping.
Coaching this team to the level that we feel IU needs to be too.
I don't know how you come back from that other than just
winning a bunch of games and if hiring the offensive assistant
means, okay, suddenly you win 27 games next year.
Sure. But if, if it's still a
situation where I you is bumping around at the bottom reaches of
the bubble or, you know, sub 500 in the Big Ten, I don't think
it's going to make much of a difference at all.
Will it make a difference in the offseason know, or maybe a
little bit? But I just don't think it's
going to make that much of a difference then either is Where
is what does need to change? We would let me throw you that
to you, what is it that needs to happen to make things successful
or more successful next year? Other than shoot better, which
is not really a solution. Yeah, I mean, I don't know
because it's if you're not going to fire Archie Miller, the only
other options is you need to bring in other assistant
coaches. I mean, that's kind of it.
Like I will say, if that's the path, I you decides to go down
there kind of backed in a corner.
Because you can't just get a bunch of hot recruits.
You can't just fire your players and if you're not going to fire
your head coach, the only option is a bunch of assistant changes.
You know, and in the end this is where we are at where it
honestly does none of none of this shit matters.
It's down to you got to win games and you got to win a lot
of when you got to win a lot of games against a lot of good
teams like they start the year off.
If they play a bunch of, you know, the garbage, you know,
North Carolina Eastern State. You know, no one's going to care
if they fit it, they start 10 and 0 against a bunch of
garbage. Music right?
What you going to do in the Big Ten?
And they're going to have to win games in the Big Ten, their have
to win a lot of games against a lot of good teams and the first
couple of games were anything resembles this season.
There's going to be people piss, there's gonna be booze.
The seat is going to be ridiculously hot.
So even if they fired, all of our cheese assistance and
heyerdahl, new assistants, they come in, and they lose a couple
games in an early preseason tournament.
People are going to be pissed, like there is no, the only thing
now, we are at complete results. Matter.
And it doesn't matter. Any of the underlying numbers
like, all the metrics look bad, they got to win games.
Like they've got to win, 25 or more games.
It's a very tough task. They got to get in the top for
the Big Ten. They need to be a protected seed
in the tournament. They got to do a bunch of shit
that I don't think it's possible.
But that's where they are at. That's what has to get done to
get the heat off because Archie, and this program has spent four
years letting the birders boil this to a point where now just
going 9 and 9 in the Big Ten and squeaking in as an Seed, I don't
see people being like all right great, we're back on track.
First of all, I mean, I don't think there's if Archie's back I
think the staffs going to be back and and you know, it's
unfair to talk about guys getting fired or replaced or
things like that. I mean, I think that's, it's
beyond what anybody should be asking because I think again, I
don't it's hard to blame an assistant coach for anything
that goes on in a program. Unless you're Trying to get out
from under NCAA violations, but in terms of the way that this
program is conducting itself, the big issues, the big broad
issues that are problematic that need to get fixed.
There has to be a complete reconsideration of both the
offensive and defensive systems, like what we've seen, whatever
the impulse has been for Archie Miller and his staff as far as
this is how we're going to play offense and this is how we're
going to play defense. It's just it it has not worked
and that has to be the first thing that gets reconsidered.
Now, that's probably not going to happen because of the rough.
This like this is this is the bunkers thing is, I know.
We're discussing this track but it's like in our discussion of
keeping him you're like all right.
Well the offense doesn't work and the defense doesn't work and
they both need to be re-engineered.
It's like what else is there right?
Like that is what you're like to play does multi-engine fall off.
Off the plane, right? But what you know we're going to
learn to be a glider like I can't what you're doing.
I'm not trying to interrupt but it's like this is where it's
like I don't know how you go in and next year where it's like
are we got to re-engineer everything about the program?
It's like all right well that that means it's not working.
I don't disagree. I'm just trying to answer the
scenario if nothing changes, what has to change.
And I mean the one you can look at the Ken Palm stats.
The one thing that sticks out is that IU was one of the
unluckiest teams in college basketball this year.
Which to some degree mirrors cranes, third year, where that
was a very unlucky team and luck in the Ken pom.
Statistics is essentially, there's an expected wins and
losses based upon rankings your ranking versus the other team.
And if you're losing more games than what your expected win,
percentage would be, that's a lack of luck.
The problem for IU is so much of that seems to be self-inflicted.
It's not just like, oh, teams keep hitting shots against us or
we keep accidentally losing games.
All of these games are being lost.
They might be close, but it's because Indiana can't capitalize
on opportunities to win games. It just doesn't seem to be in
their DNA. And so I guess to me, that's the
biggest thing that has to change somehow.
I you, it's not just the offensive and defensive systems,
it might be that the offensive and defensive systems are
functional in a Big Ten. They might get you 21, 22, 23
wins or more in a season, but there's not confidence among the
players that they can execute these things.
X, there's confidence in spurts and then it goes away.
So more than how we play offense, how we play defense, if
this staff is going to be back and if these players are going
to be back, everybody needs to take a big step back and say,
why are we unconfident? Why are we incapable of carrying
through and winning games when other teams are, that's to me?
The biggest building block is, how do you get this team to
believe in itself? So I think it all stems from
that. Anyway, a few other items that
we had and then we're going to wrap up, I use lonely bison.
Asks, do you think having the open transfer rule in place?
This offseason makes for a unique opportunity?
For a new coach Tinsley, create a roster of returning players
and transfers based on his four-year record with Archie, be
able to take advantage of this situation, if he stays.
So this one kind of straddles, the two extremes.
But yeah, this is going to be an offseason.
Unlike any other, we don't know who's coming back.
I had several people. I asked, who's coming back?
Who's going to be on the team? We are caldeira might be back or
you might not Joey brung, might be back or he might not Trace.
Jackson, Davis, it Christian Lander might be back or they
might not because the transfer rules you can transfer without
losing year. This offseason, right?
Yes. And you can you could be a
senior that graduated this year and come back next year.
And I mean there's it is we have no clue at this point.
What the roster is going to look like for IU?
We don't know if you're going We know Parker Stewart is going to
be here and be a part of the team because he just transferred
and not gonna be able to transfer again on that.
We don't even know if the guys that are currently on the roster
are going to be back those guys could transfer so it could be an
entirely different group that you see on the roster.
You know, you're going to have one recruit coming in Logan.
Duncan but other than that, it's a big mystery and so I do think,
certainly Archie could find a way to Attract transfers and
build a roster around that and that's worked elsewhere.
It's worked for Chris. Beard at Texas Tech.
It worked for a while for Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State.
You know, you, you are able to do that sort of thing, but to
me, it kind of highlights the big problem.
The other big problem with this program, which is that it just
is on very shaky ground right now, in terms of, what's what's
the foundation? Like, I don't think Michigan
State, or Ohio State, or sitting there thinking, too.
Cells. Whoo.
Whoo, we're going to get the transfer in to try to be a good
basketball team next year. Again, this goes to our point.
I know I would completely disagree.
I think our cheese not in a good position to do any any transfers
this year because you know, you mentioned Chris beard.
You know, this is all based on evidence that makes no sense
with Archie, like Chris beer was just starting at Texas Tech.
So, like, the sales job is like, Hey, we're building something
here, I'm gonna be here for a couple of years.
You can come in, you know, start this off.
If you're a transfer, it's like, why do you want to come to us?
IU of Archie's back. It's like he's going to be on an
insanely Hot Seat. He's probably gone after this
year. Now, if you're coming as see
your transfer, okay? Maybe just want to get one year
in, but then the question is, you know?
So we already know that that's a massive recruiting pieces.
When gotten coaches have no uncertainty, that gets recruited
against all the time. And we know that's a fact.
So, but even if you're just a one-and-done guy, and you just
want to go to a place, the real questions, like, why do you want
to come to IU? Our offense sucks to play and
it's taken a bunch of two's. There's no threes, there's no
Pace like This is not a fun offense to play and you go to do
it in Virginia because you got a chance to win a title but then
the other options. Okay, well we're just going to
completely change our offense like so what's the evidence?
So now I got to go to a place where you got a coat on a hot
seat. We're going to Institute a brand
new offense that no one's played before.
Yeah, I'm just gonna go to Michigan like what the hell is
your pitch to come here? It's like, hey I'm probably
going to be fired at the end of this next year.
Our offense sucks but we might change it but we might not.
Well, I don't know what's gonna happen.
I don't, I mean you know. I know you're taking the Teams
here. Although so it's funny as we
were talking about this, I got a comment from Matt eibach on
Twitter. Does Marco Killingsworth have
any years of Eligibility luck if it is scenario.
We're discussing actually is very empty to show before.
Hold on, hold on, Mark Michelle. Hold on, hold on for a second.
Let me say what I want to say, that's not where I was going
with that, but if you, if you're of a particular vintage of an IU
fan, you remember this scenario played out and Davis is Last two
years where they got, Margo Killingsworth, and Louis Monroe
as transfers during the like, in the prior to that 05 season
where they lost in the NIT to Vanderbilt, but those guys were
going to supposedly come in and like Marco Killingsworth was
going to be like you know the next I don't know Jared Jeffries
or is going to be like DJ white part 2 and it didn't work out
like Marco Killingsworth. It's funny you go back and look
at his stats like Like, he had the fourth, highest usage rate
of anybody in college basketball that year.
And yet his offensive rating was, was under a point per
possession. Yes.
Like he shot the ball brilliantly from inside he shot.
56 percent from inside, but he also turned the ball over on 24
percentage percent of his possessions Louis Monroe.
Didn't really contribute, a huge amount like played less than 50
percent of available minutes point being That's the problem
with transfers. You can have guys, who eat, you
know, everybody thinks they're going to be good and can slot
right in and they might not necessarily work in the big
scheme of things. I'd also point out that, I mean,
can you name all the transfers that have played in The Archie
Miller era at IU None right, right right.
But, but about right but brung, you know, is will remind
everybody. I mean, we knew this coming in
brung was not going to be an every down back as they say like
he and again, he had a profile, kind of similar to Lewis
Monroe's, a decade and a half earlier where he played less
than 50% of minutes. And he was fine offensively.
He was one of the few guys, that was over a point per possession,
but he wasn't a guy that you were playing every minute of
every game. I don't know that he made that
huge of a difference in terms of the big overarching issue with
IU basketball. So I will say there are
opportunities if you know how to plug people in.
And if you've got the right people to have a better season
and I don't think a person coming in on a one-year thing,
isn't going to Care what's happening with the coach
long-term. They're just coming in because
they want to get playing time but I just In terms of how that
makes a team, if they're going to be better or worse, I don't
see it making that huge of a difference in terms of how good
an Archie Miller coach team is necessarily going to do so.
Yeah. Anyway, I think that's going to
wrap it up. We did have a question from Matt
Zimmerman. I wanted to get you to finish
off here. Let's see since the podcast
began, which was 2008, but was like, fall of 2008.
So, this was post Samson. Ting fired.
Since the podcast began, you all have talked about for NCAA
tournament teams around. Those have been some of the
worst /. Most disappointing teams at IU
history. How do you keep the interest /
passion going even as many fans have had trouble with apathy
asking for a fan base? Yeah, it's kind of.
So I'll say this, when we started the football side of the
podcast which is about the same time, We were in one of the
worst streaks in IU football history and only.
Now, does it feel like we've come into the light that is, at
the end of the tunnel? It's not that we can see it.
It's like, we're actually standing at it now.
Look, I mean, I don't know about you, Scott, but I'm, I've been a
lifetime IU fan. I enjoy talking about the team.
I enjoy watching the games and, you know, the right now, for me,
the passion is, it's an annoyance more than anything
else. Yes, I wish I cared less.
I do probably care a bit less than I did before.
I'm not as emotional about it, I am a lot more logical in my
thought processes on it. But it is getting to a point
where it just kind of feels like.
I don't know why I put in extra effort to talk about it when
it's just not fun to talk about. We ran into this back and you
know, 2017 as well. We're just wasn't fun to talk
about and so we talked about it last We podcast the last, we did
less with it, so I don't have a good answer for you.
I mean I it's to some degree, it's out of habit at this stage.
It just, it does feel like a very elusive thing where the
rewards for doing this every week, or several times a week.
There's has been a lot of payoff and look, I'm not expect, I'm
not doing it to get payoff, but I do wonder what it would be
like to be broadcasting or podcasting about an You program.
That was consistently good. All the time, like that sounds
like a lot of fun. I just don't know what that is
like at this stage. Yeah I mean I've joked that you
know I've spent more time in the last 20 years researching and
talking about Coach buyouts my own coach buyouts then like you
know NCAA seating. You know it's been a fun ride.
I've learned about nit seating websites like that's been a fun
little Deep dive learning that there's you know, Bracketology
for nit. I No, that existed in the 90s
because we didn't have to deal with that.
That's like going to find heroin on the streets.
Like, wow, people are doing this to like I didn't realize there's
nit Bracketology I felt dirty doing that.
Now I wish I could be doing that.
It's also, you know, this time of year, we didn't have it this
season, because the football. But honestly, this is kind of
the time or it's like, alright. I love talking to you.
We've been doing this for a long time, but this is kind of like,
all right. Whoo, we get a couple months
off. Now, move the sit down and talk
about football basketball for a while.
But it does It sucks. We'll probably end up taking
more time off. I go back to the assembly call.
I have no idea how they do it after every game.
It's like, after every game, I couldn't imagine talking about
it. I'm happy that we have kind of
our setup or we're just be like, yeah, we're done talking for a
while and be nice. I mean, it'd be nice.
I remember, I, I'll end on this, like I remember as a kid.
I used to love watching The One Shining Moment every year and
I'd be excited like, oh, what are they going to highlight with
IU and like Yeah, bob Knight doing the goggles thing and you
have bot night yelling at sure on Wilkerson and there's moments
where we're in there, and then it became like, oh like who
there is a picture of an eye, you baby baby.
And I you thing and that's all we got.
And then it's like the one year we made it to the final four.
It's like, oh my gosh, we're going to be in One Shining
Moment Like a lot of us. And then the next year we get,
you know, bounce in the first round.
It's like, well, we make it and it's I used to re-watch those
throughout the year. I haven't done that in five or
six or seven years. Like I just all the things that
I used to be excited about and interested in.
It's like, okay, I'll watch Watch it.
Watch whether a bunch of other teams like the train has left
the station for everybody else. They're enjoying it.
I still watch games, we still podcast, but my interest is I
wouldn't say waning. It's just kind of like it's
dormant. It's just kind of bummed out.
And it'll come back. I mean 27 and 2012 2013, when we
were good, I was excited again and it'll come back.
I think that's, that's the really, really depressing part
is IU is sitting on something where they know that if they get
It again, and they get in the top ten, everyone's going to
come back. So, you know, that's the real
depressing thing is like, what is their motivation to really
feel the fire underneath them to do this?
Because if the minute we get a couple good recruits and we come
back were in the top 10, every ones that fill it back up, and
the prices are going back up at all, be there.
That's really depressing part. Yeah, it's thanks, Matt.
Appreciate it. I, you know, thank God for
football like thank God football is better.
It keeps us excited. But yeah.
It's this is not, it's not good times, it's not been a good 20
years for IU basketball. I my only hope is that we're
like Bill Simmons where he had a bad run and then it's just like
he had 20 years of, you know, 20 years of back in winning titles,
all across the board. The Barking means it's time to
stop the podcast. So I think we'll go ahead and
wrap it up there. Well, we'll keep you posted on
things where we just were finishing recording this at
11:55 on Friday. The 12th.
What do you think happens? We'll end on this, we'll each
give. Like, what do you think happens?
And do you think I, you does what you said and do they make
an announcement one way or the other the next 48 hours and then
what do you think their announcement is?
I don't think they're going to make an announcement the next 48
hours. I think it will be an
announcement next week and I don't know what the
announcements going to be. I really don't.
I love to say that I had a strong feeling one way or the
other at this point, I don't because again, I think it's a
justifiable Decision. When you factor in everything, I
think it's a justifiable decision either way money.
Competitiveness, how much we care about basketball all those
things? But I just don't know.
And I would at this point not wager or put forward to guess
because I think that there's just no point because I've it
didn't work. I think we I think we'll find
out at some point here in the next week or two, a bunch of
things. But I just this at this stage I
don't have Enough insight to say one way or the other.
Yeah, based on nothing. I think that we're going to hear
nothing, but I just think it's just going to be three weeks of
nothing and then he's going to stay based on the fact, we've
heard nothing. Alright well we'll see how
things go. We'll be back if you've got
questions or comments go ahead and send them to us on Twitter.
We will get to them. The next time we podcast which
might be relatively soon for Scott.
I'm Galen. This is Crimson cast basketball,
season is over. Thank God.
Will talk to you guys for on the flip side.
So everybody,