And good evening, folks, and welcome back to Bison Chat.
Galen Clavio joining you here as we get set for some excellent IU
football talk. As we've got a lot to talk about
tonight. The College Football Playoff
rankings are out. We're going to break those down
in grave detail. We've got a game to recap from
this last weekend, Indiana pulverizing Michigan State in
East Lansing and then of course, a huge game coming up this
Saturday is Indiana hosts Michigan and one of the most
pivotal games in the history of the program.
No pressure anybody, but joined as always by Joe Cronin, my Co
host. Joe, good to see you again.
How you doing on this rainy evening in Indiana?
I'm good. The rain caught me off guard.
I was leaving my class and then me and Austin Platt fell soon
and Sam Brunsen, we had to record our quest for 9 Indiana
men's soccer podcast and I was heading back to my place and it
just started pouring. I was like, ah, you got to be
kidding. I was in shorts and AT shirt.
So got home drenched, hair just fully wet, but took a nap.
We rallied lot a lot of big national news with the College
Football Playoff trade deadline in the NFL and then Tuesday
night match and great Football night, right?
I'm really impressed at your bounce back ability and and
getting a little bit of rest before a big night of everything
going on across not just college football, but some other things
going on in the country as well. That'll be big.
So good on you. We've also got Zac Browning
joining us from NBC Sports and and from other venues.
Zac, welcome back to the show. How you doing?
I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for having me
back gone. As you mentioned though, nothing
else going on in the country right now other than somebody
football talk. That's all there is to talk
about. And so that's all we're gonna
hit. But yeah, let's go ahead and
jump right into it, folks, as we've got a lot of playoff talk.
The the first rankings come out and Indiana comes in ranked well
#8 but actually #9 it, it was a bit confusing and we'll explain
why. But Indiana in the College
Football Playoff rankings, which is always nice like you, you
there was there was a a world where they weren't actually in
the College Football Playoff rankings.
But as I noted somebody earlier on tonight saying Indiana's
never not been in the 12 team College Football Playoff
rankings. So some good stuff happening.
You can see the bracket. I'm gonna put it up here for
those of you that are watching the ignore the ridiculous thing
that this guy Brandon Walker is saying.
I'm just going to block it there so you're not seeing his his
ridiculous words. But Indiana nine seed.
They would technically be 8 seed, but because BYU in this
scenario is the Big 12 champ, they get the four seed and the
bye. So Indiana ends up falling down
and instead of hosting a game in this bracket, they would
actually be traveling on the road to take Tennessee on.
These are very premature. Like we've got still like
several weeks until we actually have to worry about any of this
stuff. But you can see the rest of the
bracket. Indiana, not the last team in.
They were actually 4IN from the bottom of the bubble.
The last team into this mix, Boise State as the Group of Five
champion. And then of course, Alabama is
the 11 seed, Notre Dame is the 10 seed, and then Indiana would
be ahead of BYU if BYU wasn't leading the Big 12.
Some other notable items here. You've got Tennessee is the the
the eighth seed here even though they're 7th ranked overall.
You've got Texas as another SEC team in this mix.
You've got Penn State and we're going to talk about the Nittany
Lions here in a little bit, and then your four projected
conference champions based upon today, BYU, Georgia, Miami out
of the ACC, and then of course Oregon.
Guys, let me go around the table here first and foremost and get
your reactions to what we saw. Zach, you're the guest.
So let's get your thoughts first on these the rankings, the
reveal everything. Well, First off, I thought the
reveal was done well. We're just going to going to
give a shout at Therese Davis. That intro video was fantastic.
I enjoyed it thoroughly, but coming into tonight I was back
and forth on whether Indiana would be an 8 or 9 seed slash
ranking, whatever you want to call it.
I was assuming they'd probably maybe be that eighth seed, said
they're the ninth seed. But I think it's kind of telling
how the committee kind of values the strength of schedule and
it's been the big thing that's been talked about throughout
these rankings and throughout the run up and lead up to these
rankings is strength of schedule.
That's kind of the biggest thing holding Indiana back on a
national perspective is the fact that the Hoosiers haven't
necessarily played anybody of a super high caliber at to this
point in the season. So that's why Tennessee ahead of
Indiana. Surprising to some, I go back
and forth on it, yes, Tennessee has one lost.
Yes, that one lost was to a not very good Arkansas team.
That win over what was then a ranked Oklahoma team not looking
so good. But of course, Tennessee does
have that win over Alabama. So it's all about that strength
of sketch. And I think that's where we see
these rankings kind of fall into line.
Yeah, Joe, your thoughts? I mean, something that Reece
Davis said at the top of the show was you'd be surprised by
how similar that the eight people and the cultural playoff
rankings are. And they're nearly identical for
this ranking outside of Georgia and Ohio State being flipped at
the two and the three in that respective regards.
And I know there's been some remarks about Penn State.
The issue is it's hard to punish a team when they're losing to
what was as the second best team in the country.
So they're not going to have that much slippage from that.
Yes, they have a loss as compared to an undefeated
Indiana, but they value that resume so much.
It's why BYU is ranked the way they are because they just don't
think BYU has the strength of schedule to really put that then
into the upper echelon. And some of the guys on the
show, they felt like BYU is getting hosed a little bit here
and there just from the fact they're also undefeated, could
be a conference champion. And they don't have a ton of
wiggle room at the spell. Like Indiana has more wiggle
room right now than BYU, who's a projected conference champion.
So that was interesting. I, I think they went right
around where I thought they would go right in that 8-9 spot.
I think it would be really cool either way.
What they're, they're able to host a game, whether they're on
the road at Newland Stadium. I mean, that would be a
spiritual experience to see kind of that SEC culture, especially
out in Knox, but not upset by it.
I think they fit in well where Indiana had what they've done so
far in this season and how they're ranking going forward.
And it's really they control their own destiny for being able
to make it and kind of where they see it as well.
Yeah, I got to agree with you guys.
I thought Indiana would be in that 7 to 8 range.
So 9 is not that far off obviously.
And I was interested in some of the things that the committee
was going to try to take into account and the problem.
And I'm actually sympathetic to some degree to committees when
it comes to these things because these are not apples to apples
comparisons. Yes, Indiana's got a a weaker
strength of schedule as I think ESPN is contractually obligated
to mention every sentence that they utter.
It's kind of wild. But I'll also note that Indiana
has a top 10 FPI ranking, which is a power ranking that that
takes into account how well you're playing on both sides of
the ball, who you played against and and so on and so forth.
And and certainly the level to which you have beaten those
teams, and it's tough because you know, you can complain about
BYU as as they did on the show and say, well, guy, you know,
BYU's won at SMU or BYU blew out Kansas State.
But BYU also barely beat Oklahoma State.
They only won it by 6 at Baylor, who's not that great of a team.
You know, if you look at BYUS FPI, they're 28th in the
country. I mean, that's that's a problem.
If you're BYU, you're just not winning games by that much.
And then, you know, you look at a team like Penn State and this
is where you just kind of know what you're getting when it
comes to college football and rankings, whether it's a
committee or whether it's a poll.
You know, I've been arguing for a while.
Like you go down the list of what Penn State has done overall
on this season, Zach. I mean, we have a three.
Point win. At USC, they have a a 15 point
win with a lot of noise coming over the speakers here.
Guys, I'm not sure what's going on, but we have a a 15 point win
at Wisconsin. And then they got a bunch of
nothing else. Like, they've beaten West
Virginia, Bowling Green, Kent State, Illinois and UCLA all by
lesser margins than Indiana has beat their opponents, and then
they lose at home to Ohio State. I mean, it's just one of those
things where I'm not sure why they're getting credit to the
point that there are a couple of spots ahead of Indiana.
But as Joe pointed out, Zach, the nice thing for Indiana is A,
they're undefeated, and very few other teams in this mix can say
that, and B. They have a.
Stronger strength to schedule going forward than what they've
had coming up to this point, which will even those things out
a bit. Exactly.
You got Mission Michigan coming up, obviously that date with
Ohio State in Columbus as well in a few weeks time.
My biggest thing though, when you're talking about this BYU
Indiana discussion, Indiana 8, BYU 9.
As far as the rankings are concerned, it's interesting to
me the argument between strength of schedule, because if you look
at BYU, yes, they've got that win against SMU.
Theoretically, their strength of schedule, if you want to take it
for what it is, is probably better than Indiana's.
They have that road win against another team that's shown up in
these rankings, within the top thirteen of these rankings with
SMU being at #13. But clearly the community is not
weighing BYU strength of schedule over Indiana's strength
of schedule and what Indiana has done.
They both not lost the game. They're both undefeated.
But despite BYU may be having that bigger win against SMU on
the road, BYU still lower than Indiana.
So I'm curious what the difference between Indiana
versus BYU is versus maybe Indiana and Tennessee.
Indiana obviously doesn't have the loss that Tennessee has.
So it's a little bit curious to me what and how much the
strength of schedule actually matters in the minds of the
committee, because obviously BYU, again, they have that road
to win against SMU. So the strength of schedule is
probably slightly better than Indiana's, but yet Indiana still
ranked ahead of them. So then why is Indiana not
ranked ahead of Tennessee? Because Indiana's strength of
schedule might be worse than Tennessee.
But again, what they've done and the schedule that they've played
and who's been put in front of them, there's not really
anything or anybody that can detract from what Indiana has
done. They've beaten everybody in
front of them and they've done it very, very handily.
Joe, as you look at what Indiana's got coming up,
obviously you've got this game against Michigan, you got the
game at Ohio State, you got the home game against Purdue.
You look at these teams and, and I think one of the things that's
important for people to keep in mind, and I and I want to call
this up so that everybody's just aware of, you know, some of the
the things that are going to be notable as we move forward.
Like this is the first picture of the College Football Playoff.
And it's by no means the last time we're going to see these
things change. And I wanted to call this
particular tweet up that I sent out earlier because I think it's
important to realize that between now and the end of
conference championships, all of the following things that you
see on the screen have to happen because these teams are playing
each other. Texas and A&M play each other,
Alabama and LSU play each other. Georgia plays Ole Miss Georgia
plays Tennessee. Notre Dame plays Army, Clemson
plays Pitt. Iowa State plays K State 2.
Like, there's going to be two teams in the SEC title game.
One of them's going to lose a game.
One of the ACC teams is going to lose a game.
And then one of the Big 12 teams is going to lose a game.
And you know, this is where as much as it might feel like you
need to overreact and say, wow, Indiana's too low or Indiana
does have a lot of margin. Like even if Indiana loses to
Ohio State and and this is where I get annoyed with ESP NS, you
know, proclamation that well, Indiana better win that Ohio
State game and they might be left out.
It's like Indiana's gonna even in that scenario, if they beat
Michigan, which is an if, it's not a guarantee.
And if they beat Purdue, you're 11 and one in the Big 10 with
one of the best strength of record rankings in the entire
country. You're going to be still top
ten, maybe top 12 FPI. You're in a lot better shape
than a two or three loss SEC team or ACC team.
I think that that's something that you can kind of take some
solace in as an Indiana fan. It's, it's not like you have to
run the table. You're going to get left out,
even though that might be what it looks like based upon the
rankings right now. Joe, can you guys hear me?
I got you. OK, Joe may be frozen, so Joe is
Joe. Yeah, I.
Yeah, you guys, you're having some Internet issues at the
house, I think. Well, Joe, I mean, just yeah.
The house is having some Internet issues right now.
No, it's fine. Zach, why don't you dive in?
I mean. With Go ahead.
Who's got it? I'll, I'll go ahead.
I got it. Well, exactly these things.
And again, it's the first rendition of these rankings.
These things kind of have a way of just figuring themselves out.
Talk about the committee's job right now is much easier than
the committee's job will be in a couple weeks time once all these
SEC teams have taken on each other.
You mentioned teams like Georgia, Alabama, Alabama's got
two losses. Can they realistically afford
another loss? Probably not.
That third loss for Alabama would likely see them out.
And then once the end of the season comes and you're weighing
potentially A1 loss Big 10 team versus A2 loss SEC team, it's
going to be decisions for the committee once that time comes.
But the thing with that is, again, they'll work itself out.
It will work itself out. The SEC teams are really just
going to pick each other apart. The Big 10 teams, not so much
because Ohio State's already played Penn State, Ohio State's
already played Oregon, Indiana and Ohio State are upcoming.
The Big 10 teams are likely going to finish each with one
loss or Oregon potentially undefeated.
But the conversation gets a little bit more dicey and a
little bit more tricky when you start factoring in the SEC
teams. A handful of them could be two
lost teams, A handful could even be 3 lost teams.
How does the committee weigh that?
If it's a loss against the team like Texas or against the team
like Tennessee, when their losses against each other, it'll
be interesting to see how the community kind of plays that
out. Go ahead, Joe.
I just want to go back to your point that you made about like
Indiana doesn't necessarily have to run the table and I think
that's true. I think they do have a wiggle
room with pending they go 2 and one with that loss to Ohio
State. And if that is competitive as
well, if they're lose by 70, maybe the committee says that's
a that's an issue right there. But if that doesn't happen, if
they play Kolos close loss against Ohio State, one of the
best teams in the country, a top two team according to the
College Football Playoff rankings, in one of the toughest
places to play in Columbus, OH at the Shoe.
I think they're in that it's hard to to push them out,
especially being at that eighth spot.
They have a little bit of wiggle room for a, you know, a top two
loss that that allows some of that to happen.
We people around the country, some people, at least some
pundits, not happy with where Indiana's at.
They feel like they're too low. Joel Klatt, who we know from Fox
the league, he's a big fan. Big fan.
His quote on X. Any blue blood with Indiana
football's resume would be at worst #4 the disrespect to the
Hoosiers is real. We got Dan Orlovsky, ESPN
commentator, saying Indiana at 9 is a complete and utter joke.
We've had a couple of others like that as well and.
I mean even at the top of the show Booger McFarlane was saying
Indiana is going to get disrespected and they're John
bag like. Ari Wasserman saying Indiana
being ranked behind Penn State is BS.
Straight BS. It's it's going to be
interesting. This is divisive.
I'm really fascinated to see how this works moving forward.
I'll tell you who is not worried about the rankings right now is
Kurt Signetti. He was asked about whether they
were going to be watching the show in his presser on Monday.
Here's what he had to say. I mean, I'll see the rankings,
but the only thing that really matters is that you get the
result on, you know, when you play.
And to do that, you got to keep the main thing the main thing
and eliminate the noise in the clutter and stay focused on
what's going to help you play your best on Saturday to give
you the best chance to get the result.
Every week presents its own new set of circumstances.
And so there's a lot of that going on this week.
I'm aware of it. But to get kind of caught up on
that and and lose your focus would be the kiss of death.
He's right. It would be the kiss of death.
And it's interesting because I almost would argue that what
we've seen in the College Football Playoff committee
ranking here kind of feeds in to Kurt Signetti and how he would
want to approach coaching this team going into this Michigan
game. I mean, I not that you need to
get your team focused, you know, because it's Michigan and it's a
huge game in its own right. But you can very easily walk
into the locker room tomorrow and say, guys, they don't want
you in the College Football Playoff.
Like they're setting you up to fail here.
And yeah, to try to light a fire under your team when they're
nine and O and have played as well as Indiana's played is very
difficult. But Kurt Signetti keeps getting
handed little motivational things that he can bring into
that locker room. Zac Browning, you know, whether
it's the AP poll, whether it's this, whether it's some of the
commentary, just in general, it is really fascinating.
For a guy like Signetti, who loves to play, probably
internally that disrespect angle to try to get his guys fired up,
this is perfect, right? Well, that's absolutely perfect,
not only for him but for the players as well.
You've got 13 guys that came over from James Madison, a
Sunbelt Conference, a Group of Five conference.
Those guys are now on the big stage in the Big 10, but they
still necessarily don't feel like they're getting that Big 10
level of recognition. So I think that only feeds to
the kind of hunger as well. And I think going back real
quick to the college football rankings, it's made its way
around social media this week. And the comparison between
Indiana at this point in the season and Michigan, the
national champions at this point in last season.
And how similar the teams are in terms of their strength of
schedule, in terms of how much they're dominating opponents.
And Michigan last season at this time was ranked #2 in the
country. Indiana obviously coming in not
#2 in the country #8 with the ranking #9 so #8 seed.
So I think that's just interesting, the kind of brand
name that Michigan is versus what Indiana is.
So I think it's, again, just more fuel to the fire for Kurt
Signetti. And I think the players they are
when ready to jump on anything that can give them that extra
edge. Joe, you know, any other
thoughts on that front? I mean, you know, Indiana,
obviously this is a big game this week.
We're going to talk about how big it is and why later on.
But you know, the the College Football Playoff rankings
release had the potential to be a distraction.
It's something that players can get caught up in.
This group's been really good so far about not getting caught up
in all of these extra things that we're not used to, whether
it's game day or big noon kickoff or whatever.
Here's another one of those items.
But it's clear from this that Indiana isn't safe in the
College Football Playoff. They've still got work to do.
How do you think that plays in the locker room?
I mean, I it just gives them more fuel, honestly.
These are level headed guys. And yeah, they've had moments to
kind of relish in the glory that they've had so far.
And they've been asked, hey, I mean, how does it feel like, you
know, Bloomington, IU is all kind of falling in love with
this team. They enjoy it, but they are also
playing with this next day mentality, next play mentality.
I mean, they play every snap like it is their last.
Like they're trailing like they have something to prove.
I mean, they beat Michigan State by 37 and in the fourth quarter
held them to 0 yards when it was already a blow.
It's just stuff like that. They have this mentality that
they're going to go in and steal the soul from the other team and
they've been able to do that. I mean, got to talk to CJ W
earlier today and it was just like, hey, Michigan defending
national champions, you know, everything riding on this one
second to last home game, stuff like that.
And he's like. This is the most important game
because it's the next one. And that's verbatim of what
Signetti has been saying all year.
But the team is purely like based off of what he's been able
to lead and it's lead by example.
And they follow that chain of command so well.
And I think because of the mentality that Signetti has
implemented with this team, the ability of the team to follow
along with it, with so many guys that already understood what it
took, adding those new guys like CJ W, like Curtis Rourke, Miles
Price, those guys came in from different places, Justice
Ellison from Wake Forest, they were able to buy into this
mentality because they saw the core group already have it.
And then when they believe they're able to just go and show
the country now that they belong and there really is nothing
besides the outside noise saying, oh, their strength to
schedule this, blah, blah, it's Indiana, this they've been able
to play within themselves at a tremendous level and just block
out everything. There a question here from Nick
Barna. Serious question with the
conference realignments, how are schedules determined?
Is there any rotation or is it a random computer assignment each
year? So there's kind of two different
components. There's really three different
components to the schedule that are worth keeping in mind.
So a, you have your non conference, which is entirely
determined by the team. So like Indiana chose this year
to buy out the Louisville game, replace that with I think the
Charlotte game. And so they ended up with
Western Illinois, FIU and Charlotte, weaker schedule, but
that was on purpose and a good idea because Indiana needed kind
of a a long runway with a new coach, new coaching staff, new
team coming in to kind of get their feet under them.
If you look at their future schedules as far as non
conference, like next year, they've already got their non
conference set. It's not very good.
They're playing Old Dominion, Kennesaw State and Indiana State
in the first three weeks of the season.
Powerhouses. Powerhouses right there.
But again, you normally make up for that in the Big 10, which
they do next year and we'll talk about in a second.
But you go forward like they're playing Colorado State and UConn
in the non conference in 26. They've got they've.
Notre Dame in 28 right or 2030? Name is in 30 and 31.
Joe. You will be middle-aged by the
time they play Notre. Dame, that's scary, That's
scary. It is frightening, but but the
way that the Big 10 schedules work is that there's a couple of
things. There's there's certain locked
in games that you're going to play every year.
So Indiana has two of those. They play Purdue every year,
They play Michigan State every year because those are protected
rivalry games. Some teams have more than two,
some teams only have one, but Indiana has those two and then
they've got one year. Like this year for Indiana, you
play 5 home games and four Rd. games in the conference, and
then it flips the following year where you play 4 road games and
five home games. And so you know what Indiana's
doing next year is there. I'll just show you the schedule.
What you know why? Why just why talk about it when
we could actually demonstrate it?
This is what Indiana's doing next year.
So Old Dominion, Kennesaw State, Indiana State, then they've got
that. This is not an order, but it's a
tougher schedule than this year. You got to go to Penn State, you
got to go to Oregon, you got to go to Maryland, you got to go to
Iowa, you get Illinois, Michigan State, UCLA and Wisconsin at
home, and you got to go to Purdue.
We know that game is going to be at the end of the season.
It's not as bad. There's no Ohio State on the
schedule next year. There's no Michigan on the
schedule next year. You do get Penn State back in
Happy Valley and you got to go to Oregon.
But the rest of the schedule is is frankly somewhat manageable.
And so you know what they do across the board, they have been
trying to rotate the road matchups for teams against PAC
12 or former PAC 12 competition. So like this year, Indiana was
at UCLA and then they play Washington at home.
Next year, they're going to go to Oregon, but they get UCLA at
home. The year after that, they go to
Washington and I think they get USC at home.
And then they flip that in the following year.
Now, this is assuming they're not going to add any more teams
to the Big 10, but this is essentially how the scheduling
process goes. So hopefully that's helpful to
you, Nick, and anybody else that was curious how all that stuff
works. So anyway, any final thoughts on
the CFP stuff guys before we jump back in time and talk about
the Michigan State game this weekend?
No, I just think it'll be exciting to kind of track the
next couple weeks, see how things go, especially after this
week, you know, how much motion is there off a win, how much you
know? I mean, like you said, look at
the schedule remaining for some of those already ranked teams
that are within that top 12 and how that's going to shape out.
It'll be fun. It will be fun.
And you know what else was fun? Indiana waxing Michigan State
and East Lansing this past weekend.
Let's hear what Curt Signetti had to say on that game.
I like the way we. Responded when we were down 10.
Nothing in the first quarter. Guys kept their poise, kept
playing, no frustration and picked up a couple turnovers
there defensively in the second quarter which were key.
Scored 47 straight points and really dominated line scrimmage
up front on defense. 7 sacks, 15 tackles for loss.
Made some big plays in the punt return game.
Blocked the punt, forced a muff which also led to a touchdown.
Had a couple big returns and also got a deflection at the end
of the game on a punt. It was a tremendous game
defensively for Indiana. I mean, just up and down the
board that that rough start. Although, yeah, you go back and
watch the highlights, Joe and and Michigan State made some out
of their mind plays on those first couple of drives, which I
think we just assumed that was going to happen the whole game.
But Indiana buckled down, and the last 3/4 of that game, the
defense, the defensive line especially, was just a group of
monsters against the Spartan squad.
Yeah, I have never seen a conference game have that
drastic of a difference between grunts like dominating like
that. 15 tackles for loss. They were just living in the
backfield. It it wasn't even like the
Spartan offensive line was just opening up immediately.
Michael Kamara, 4 1/2 tackles for loss, 2 1/2 sacks.
Michigan State had -36 rushing yards at the end of the game,
they lost 93 yards. They had gained like 60
something and whatever the math is and lost 93 on the game.
That is ridiculous. Just to just to show what they
did defensively and then the response to offensively, you
know, you're down 10. Oh, this is the big drive right
there. They orchestrate long drive down
the field. Zach Horton gets the score and
then defense turn around and turns around and gets an
interception. That's when they started to see
that things start to click correctly.
It was really interesting. I mean, we tried to ask every
player in the availability. I think we got, you know, Aidan
Fisher was there, Curtis Rourke, Mikhail Kamara, but I think
Elijah Sarat was also there. There were four guys that talked
and we were all like, hey, what was that message?
You're down 10. Oh, I was like, ah, nothing
really like stick to our game. And obviously with Signetti on
Saturday as well, he was like, now you guys know what it what
it happens when we trail a game. The sample size for IU trailing
in the game is 47 straight points.
That's crazy. I wrapping my head around that
is crazy. This team at on both sides.
The all three levels are fantastic.
Like the fact that at all three levels they are top 10
categories. I mean, they haven't missed an
extra point, have missed a field goal.
Nicholas Radicich has been great at his spot, hasn't really been
challenged all that much for long field goals.
But I mean, consistency is key, right?
Aiden Fisher had some talk about the process and and how they
process these things. We heard from him after the
game. It's huge.
You know, you're down by 10 or you're up by 37 at the end of
the game. He's the same guy.
And that guy speaks volumes to your team.
So no matter what, you don't need to get too high.
You don't need to get too low. I stay right in that middle and
you know, be consistent within your work and each play is new
so no need to hang your head or praise yourself for a play
before. Yeah, Zach, a big contrast to
what Indiana's had the last few years versus this year.
I mean, it's very even keeled. It's very level.
It's not ramped up. Like let's get all excited.
And it's interesting 'cause, you know, watch, you watch this team
and you watch the way they execute down the stretch and the
way it builds and builds. And I heard like on every day
Should be Saturday or on the shutdown full cast, you know,
the Spencer Halls podcast, like they're talking about like
Indiana's just constantly cashing checks, like they're
constantly putting pressure on you.
And that causes your offense to do things that it doesn't want
to do because it has to try to keep up.
And you could see Michigan State getting caught in that quicksand
as the second quarter, third quarter went on and they just
they couldn't do anything about it.
Like it was really remarkable. And you know, we've seen Indiana
do this now multiple times this season, but it was it was really
the first time in a hostile Rd. environment with 50,060 thousand
opposing fans that Indiana did it.
And they looked better than, you know, even in some of the home
games they've had so far this season doing.
That's the crazy part. We've talked about Indiana
season long dominance and outside of the Nebraska game,
this might be the most dominant Indiana look despite trailing
for the first time. I mean, 47 straight points
unanswered against any team, let alone a power conference team, a
Big 10 team on the road is spectacular.
And it's just talks about the complimentary football that this
team plays. Joe talked about the fact that
all three phases were able to dominate on Saturday against the
Spartans and it's what they've echoed all season long.
When the defense gets to stop, the offense is there to
contribute there and convert those turnovers into points.
The defense gets an interception, The offense their
scores. The defense maybe gives up 10
first quarter points. The offense scores 47 in the
final 3/4. The offense struggles early on.
The defense kind of limits the damage because as you mentioned,
that was a special start from Michigan State.
Aidan Child showed some really good things in that first
quarter, but the defense only limited limited them 210 points.
That touchdown was great from Childs, that touchdown pass, but
holding them to a field goal on that first over the game, that's
a big play with the defense, especially when the offense
started out with two straight 3 and outs.
So it's just a complimentary football.
It's Curtis Work coming back from his injury had surgery less
than two weeks prior to that game and you wouldn't have known
it. You didn't look like a 263
yards, 4 touchdowns of the day for him.
And it's the weapons, the amount of weapons you look at Aiden
Fisher, his linebacking partner doesn't get talked talked about
enough. Jalen Walker, the stuff he does
not only in the past rush, not only stopping the run, but in
the pass coverage game as well. Offensively, Curtis works,
throwing to four different guys that could start at pretty much
any other Big 10 school outside at the receiver position.
The running backs, the trio of running backs really that
Indiana uses are all talented. They could all rush for 1000
yards in a single season if they were that single workhorse back.
It's just the talent is there in Indiana and credit the coaching
staff to be able to put that talent and put those players in
the right positions to make those plays and to succeed.
There's a question from Matt Ull which I think is an interesting
1. And I'm curious your guys's
take. Is there momentum or or is there
evidence that each of the units is still improving and maturing
here in November? Do you think IU has yet to play
their best complete game? Joe, let me start you with that
one. It's interesting because you
look at that Michigan State game and you can almost say to that
point, but again, they're down 10 O after the first quarter.
So that's not a complete game. They were trailing and they
still, you know, held them to 0 yards in the fourth quarter,
scored 47 unanswered. Curtis Swork had four
touchdowns. They had over 100 yards on the
ground. It's hard to tell like where the
the the points are. That's like, hey, this needs
improving because does the defensive line have that kind of
performance moving forward? I think that's tough to
replicate something like that. I think they need to be
disruptive. They need to get in the
backfield, have two to three sacks.
I mean, they have 31 sacks on the year.
They're top echelon in the country just from those numbers
alone. That was something very
interesting. I was looking at just diving
into some of the national stats and they are top ten in lots of
major important categories like third down, conversion
percentage, red zone touchdowns. They're first in the country in
red in touchdowns in general. They're averaging the second
most points per game. They are allowing the 7th fewest
points per game, allowing the third fewest yards per game.
They're top ten in yards per game.
Like looking at that at week 3 can be one thing when it's non
con in UCLA, but now it's week 9.
This has been real for nine straight weeks.
So it it's hard to see how much better they can get because
we're probably seeing like maybe not the peak because maybe it
that Ohio State game is really going to be can they put
together a complete game against a top caliber opponent?
And that's going to be an interesting one.
I know I don't want to overlook this Michigan game, but that's a
game that Ohio State, if Indiana comes in 10 and O Ohio State
nine and one Ohio State has that now circled knowing that Indiana
wants to be the guys that belong with the big boys and Ohio State
as his blue blood big boy doesn't want that to happen.
So definitely a lot of eyes will the eyes of the country be on
that game? But regardless to that question,
I it's hard to tell whether they can play much better.
But like just bowling from the start of the season from now,
but there has been development like FIU, there were things here
and there, but that Michigan State.
Zach, let me we'll stop the Michigan State conversation with
the following. Mikael Camaro wins 2 National
Defensive Player of the Year of the Week awards, the the Walter
Camp Award and the Benaric Award, but doesn't win Big 10
Defensive Player of the Week award.
Can you explain this to me? I'm just a simple brain.
I don't quite understand it. I don't know how it works either
because to me, 2 1/2 sacks, 4 1/2 tackles for a loss is not
only worthy of national player of the week like he like he got,
rightfully so, but Big 10 player of the week as well.
And it wasn't even just the fact that he got that kind of
production. Obviously the counting stats,
the sacks, the taxes for loss, those are one thing.
But the Pro Football Focus numbers, the advanced numbers,
they love Mikhail Kamara. They love him.
The QB hurries, the pressures, the win rate at the line on pass
plays. They all love Mikhail Kamara.
And it's like he's dominating everybody, whether it's a
Michigan State offensive lineman, Nebraska, who
notoriously has pretty good offensive lines, dominating
Nebraska, too. No matter who it is, he's been
fantastic. And to go back to that last
question about what in the end has really improved on the most
this season, I was digging into the turnover numbers earlier
this week into the first three games this season.
The first 3 Big 10 games this season, Indiana was -2 in the
turnover margin through the 1st 3 Big 10 games of the season.
The most recent three Big 10 games, NAMS plus 7, stark, stark
difference there. So the turnovers, they've been
able to create more, but they've also been able to limit their
own a little bit more. I remember back after the
Northwestern game where people were ready to throw the defense
away and we're like, well, the defense is holding this team
back and wow, have they stepped up over the course of the last
few games. It's been really, really
impressive to see Indiana we beats Michigan State, the third
straight win in East Lansing for IU in a series that that does
not happen. Like Indiana is so far behind in
Michigan State in the all time series between these two teams.
It's not even funny. But that's a nice little streak
that Indiana's got going up there in East Lansing.
They now play the other team from Michigan, the Michigan
Wolverines, who are not having a great season.
They come off a national championship win last year, and
they have struggled, particularly on offense.
Let's hear what Kurt Signetti has to say about the Wolverines.
I mean, I, I look at them and I, and I see a really good defense,
really good special teams and you know, offensively they, you
know, they haven't scored points.
They're not in the 40s and 50s, but you know, they can run the
ball from 11:12 and 13 personnel.
They've got weapons, they've got good backs, they got good
players and they're they're good football team coming in here
with a lot of tradition, a lot of history, a lot of pride.
He kind of nailed it. Very concise and accurate
description of Michigan. This is a team that, if you look
at what they've done so far this season, they have been pretty
similar in terms of results to some of the other teams that
Indiana's played so far this year.
I, I mean, I've lumped them in with Michigan State.
I've lumped them in with Washington.
I've lumped them in with, you know, Nebraska to some degree.
They're a team that has really struggled to score and they're
only averaging 21 points per game.
You look at their overall record, their wins are against
Fresno State, Arkansas State, USC by three, Minnesota by three
and Michigan State by 7. They, they have won games, all
those games that they won have been at home and they have
struggled even in those games to put a lot of points on the
board. Their losses so far on the
season, they lose at home to Texas.
No, no shame there. Certainly they lose at
Washington 2717. They lose at Illinois 21, seven,
a loss that looks less respectable by the week.
And then of course, they lose at home this past weekend to Oregon
in a game that they were a little more competitive Joe,
that I think maybe people thought they might be, but they
still lost that game 38 to 17. I mean, when you think about
this Michigan team, they've been, you know, the dominant
storyline's kind of been their inability to settle on a
quarterback. You know, Alex Orgy's played
eight games. Davis Warren's played five.
Jack Tuttle started a game and then retired due to injuries.
Their their quarterbacks are only averaging a a completion
percentage of 61%. They've thrown 10 touchdowns, 9
interceptions. Their offense is just not looked
great, especially compared to what we saw last year.
Yeah, this is this is an interesting situation for
Michigan because it very clearly on paper and everything from the
eye test. This is not last year's Michigan
Wolverines team. That team last year was very
much set up to make the run. That was the team that Michigan
was so desperately waiting for for so long.
Big credit there for Jim Harbaugh and obviously the
amount of draft picks they had, the amount of seniors that they
lost, that's hard to replace, especially when they just
brought an inside hire rather than going and trying to.
Obviously that was the plan with coach Sharon Moore.
They didn't replenish as well as possible.
And I think they're they're having a bit of that hangover
from a national championship and that's going to happen,
especially when they didn't really reload to the abilities
that they, you know, some Alabama's and Georgia's have in
in the past. This is an interesting game
right now because I, I know I'm looking purely on stats.
Indiana's allowing 72 yards on the ground, a game that is the
fewest in the country by over 10 yards per game.
Obviously Michigan is a very ground dominant team.
They're not running the ball as well this year.
Obviously Donovan Edwards has really not been what he's been
up to speed, injured here and there.
And in the quarterback situation, they can't really
pass the ball. So this is just if Michigan
wants to make this a game, they got to get the ball 1st and they
got to have a painfully slow like 8 minute drive where
they're eating some clock running the ball.
The 1518 plays really punch Indiana in the mouth and get
them all out of rhythm. Otherwise this is not a Michigan
team that's going to be able to play catch up.
If Indiana goes down and takes 3 minutes and scores, they might
be in for a long day because they just don't have the town on
the outside. The quarterback is still I mean
Davis Warren started the past two.
He better than what was what Michigan quarterbacks have been
showing. But I don't know.
I this is nowhere near the Michigan team they were last
year. I think they're solid and then
they're they realistically might end this year six and six and
squeak into the Detroit Bowl. But we'll see.
We'll see. That's Michigan.
They get to a better bowl, I think.
But now, Zach, it's. It's a team that they've tried
to hang their hat on some of the old school things that work in
football. They they, they focused on their
defense and their defense has been pretty good.
They focused on their running game.
Carl Mullings averaging over 5, almost 5 1/2 yards to carry 7
touchdowns, 710 yards through nine games.
Donovan Edwards's rush for almost 500 yards.
Like they really have had to keep it on the ground.
So to some degree, a big question in this one is how does
Indiana's defensive front match up against Michigan's offensive
line? Normally you'd be like, oh,
that's a problem because Michigan's offensive lines are
already always incredible. And yet you look at the way that
this Indiana defensive line is pieced together, especially in
the interior with West and Carpenter, and you've got the,
you know, the guys on the edges that are doing their thing.
And it's like, well, you know, if I was going to pick an
Indiana defensive line to match up against the Michigan
offensive line, particularly in the run game, looking at that
Michigan State game as evidence, it's like, I feel fairly good
about where we're heading in this one.
You're exactly right. And the best part about that for
Indiana heading into this game, it's not just going to be the
front 4, the front guys on the defensive line trying to stop
the run game because Indiana doesn't have to worry about a
passing attack. So they can put eight guys in
the box and let D Angelo Pons and Jamir Johnson cover guys
one-on-one on the outside because Davis, Warren and really
any Michigan quarterback so far this season has not been able to
throw the ball. They just can't do it, at least
with any consistency. So I think that's where the
biggest problem kind of gets going for Michigan is that teams
don't have to just try and match up one-on-one with the offensive
line, which is still good for Michigan.
It's still a good offensive line, but the offensive line is
not having to deal with four guys in the defensive front.
They're having to deal with the linebackers, the safety's coming
down and dropping into the box as well.
And I think with Indiana, especially with Aiden Fisher,
Jalen Walker, Sean Asbury, who's been great in the run support
game, he's a great tackler. It's a group of Indiana
defenders that they're all great tacklers.
They're all great in the run game.
So they're going to come down and disrupt those things down in
the trenches. So Indiana is going to have to
force Michigan to try and pass. And up to this point in the
season, the Wolverines have really not shown an ability to
be able to beat anybody through the air.
So it's going to be interesting to see if Michigan kind of can
kind of break those tendencies and maybe get something going in
the air because they're going to need it.
I will say on the offensive side for Indiana, like going against,
you know, Michigan has always preached their very talented
defense, big up front, good on the outsides.
But with Indiana, they I think having such a mature quarterback
with Curtis Schwartz that he knows the reads he wants to make
and he's so delayed on those RP OS.
And I think this is a chance to really punish what is glorified
as this top defensor has been in years past.
And I don't know, I I haven't liked the way Michigan has
looked this year. I know they had so much change,
but they just, it's been underwhelming.
They haven't looked great. I mean, some of it is just a
natural churn from winning a national title.
Some of it's the coaching turnover.
And I I think as much as Jim Harbaugh wears on people, it's
easy to forget he's a really good football coach and he
really knows what he's doing. And Sharon Moore was kind of the
emotional hire after Harbaugh left, especially with that whole
scene at Penn State last year where he's like crying on the
field. That is, you know, and, and it's
tough. We're we're seeing this across
the country. Like it's hard to succeed
coaches. We see this with Caleb Deboer,
who we know is a good coach. Even he's had trouble succeeding
Nick Saban. I can only imagine what Sharon
Moore's dealt with it, you know, but I do think it's important to
note as we look at the the bite sized bison preview numbers and
again, keep in mind green is good, purple is bad.
Indiana comes out looking really good statistically in this
matchup. Michigan is, you know,
offensively they're just not very good in terms of EPA per
play. They, they just don't get a lot
of expected points added on most of the plays that they run.
They're slightly better in the run.
They're pretty bad in the passing game.
You know, defensively Michigan has shown somewhat the ability
to stop the pass in the run. But Indiana is so good at both
of them. It's gonna really be fascinating
to see what exactly Michigan is able to do to try to slow down
this Indiana attack because they, you know, they they faced
the. The only offense that Michigan
has faced. I think you could argue that is
of the caliber of Indiana so far this season is Oregon, the team
that they just played at home. They did not fare well trying to
stop that attack. Now they got to go on the road
to an Indiana team that is really firing on all cylinders
right now and has shown like, OK, if you're Washington and
you're going to just shut down our passing game, yeah, we'll
just run the ball down your throat.
If you're Michigan State, you're like, we're going to shut down
your running game. Well, hey, that's fine.
We're just going to pass around. We're going to do reverses.
We're going to guide our guys into space.
I mean, it's a daunting task for most defenses, but especially
for this Michigan defense was just by the numbers hasn't been
that good so far this year. Zach.
Yeah, it's a Michigan defense. They've Got Talent, but it's not
necessarily the traditional talent at entire position
groups. I mean, you look at guys, Mason
Graham and Will Johnson, those guys are still going to be top
10 picks this upcoming season. Mason Graham hasn't had the best
season. Josiah Stewart's another great
defensive in that they have. But those are really individual
towns. It's not position group wide
towns and it's not a defensive wide talent that this Michigan
defense has. So I think that's really where
the depth of this Indiana offense comes into play.
You're talking about that receiving core.
You mentioned Will Johnson. Will Johnson can take one ride
receiver out, but he can't guard more than one.
And you've got maybe Elijah Surat, he'll be matched up
against this weekend. But when you look at Miles
Price, Miles Cross, there's just so many guys and so many
different names in this India in their receiving corps where Will
Johnson can't do it all by himself.
So it's going to be the third, the 4th quarterbacks in that
secondary for Michigan that are really going to be tasked
against Curtis work in this offense.
And then you look at that defensive line, Mason Graham,
Desiah Stewart, those guys maybe slightly better in the past rush
department rather than the run stopping department.
This Indian offensive line, again, there's been nobody that
has been able to stop them. A team that was much better
statistically on paper, at least from a defensive standpoint.
Nebraska, we saw what Indiana's offensive line did against that
Nebraska defensive line. So I would agree that Michigan's
defense is going to be searching for answers this Saturday.
Yeah. And Joe, this is one of those
games where if you just look at it on paper and you look at
where the two teams have played and you look at the statistics
that have been accrued, it's like, well, no brainer.
That's why Indiana's a 14 point favorite.
And yet there's a psychological barrier when it comes to
Michigan. This is a team that has had
Indiana's number for 50 plus years.
Indiana's won twice against Michigan since 1967.
This is the first time Indiana's been favored against Michigan
since 1968. You know, even in seasons when
Michigan hasn't been good, Indiana hasn't been able to
figure out a out a way to topple them and and it's a huge game,
you know, and you take Michigan aside and say, well, that's a
tough one because Indiana rarely ever beats Michigan.
But then you also add in all the other things.
You've got the chance to go 10 and O win 10 games for the first
time in school history. The chance to, I'm not going to
say sew up a College Football Playoff berth, but certainly at
10 and O with Purdue still on your schedule, you got to feel
pretty confident about your chances.
I mean, there's so much in this game.
You got all these recruits coming in, you know, reports
Julian Lewis might be coming. You got other recruits that are
coming. It's a huge day.
Just in general, another sellout in Memorial Stadium.
And this is where it's like you want to trust the team, you want
to trust the coaches. But as a fan or as an observer
of Indiana football, there's that thing in the back of your
head where it's like this is a game that normally Indiana
hasn't been able to historically win.
However, we could say that about pretty much all the games
Indiana has won since the Charlotte game.
So maybe we need to just not worry about that at all.
But it is something that is right there in the forefront of
a lot of people's minds in the fan base.
I mean, obviously that is the number one storyline regarding
this team is hey, this is the losingest football team, college
football team of all time. first US 700 losses, everything like
that. And here comes old Kurt Signetti
trying to spark some side type of culture into that through 9
weeks. I I, it's almost at the point
where this game right here, they can throw away 75 years of bad
if they go 10 and O and you can almost disregard any Indiana
history questions because they are now 10 and O.
And right right now they've almost been able to do that
considering they're nine and O. But this is the one where it's
like now the College Football Playoff ranking is official now.
It's like this dream has become a reality.
If they're able to play within themselves.
I honestly think in these last three games, the biggest
opponent that Indiana will have is themselves.
They can play 2 Ohio State's level.
I truly believe that simply from the eye test of both teams and
also just the numbers that Indiana's putting up regardless
of opponent, that is teams that only like the top of the top are
able to do on both sides of the ball.
It's you go back through the past national championship
winners, the the teams that were making the play offs, the teams
that were right on the outside. That is what the numbers Indiana
is putting up through 9 weeks. And I don't think that's
something that should be overlooked.
I know football there's a lot of external factors regardless than
just the stat sheet, but they've passed the eye test.
I mean you, you the biggest thing going into last was what
will happen when this team trails.
They trail and put up 47 unanswered.
That's what happens when they trail.
They put the foot on foot on the gas and just keep going it.
It has been an extremely impressive to watch this team
and they're getting the national recognition they deserve.
The name brand isn't quite there, so who knows what happens
if they beat Michigan and whether they go up or down.
But this team is real. I think the fans should rally
around that. I mean, this is the real estate
thing that Indiana football has probably ever had.
Not to throw shade, but I mean. It's fair.
It's you're probably right. It's just weird to think about.
But yeah, no, ultimately it's just it's a it's an immense game
and and it's going to be fascinating to see how this
Memorial Stadium crowd approaches this 330 game on CBS
marquee match up. You're playing Michigan,
probably. No, no, no question about
getting up for this one. And it's going to be
interesting. I mean, Zach, I'll let's let's
close it out with this question. We had a a question coming in
from trying to find it here, actually.
Where did it go? Oh, here it is from Ryan Breach.
Michigan has a highly rated defense, kind of according to
the the traditional stats, yes. Do you see IU relying more on
the run or the pass on Saturday? What would be your answer there
and why? It's a tough question because
this Indiana offense has been so balanced.
I would say it's got to be a combination of both.
If I had to choose one, it's probably going to be the run
because I see Indiana getting up early in this game and well,
yes, the passing attack and Curtis Works been spectacular.
I mean, he's talked about on the outside of the Heisman
discussion, which is crazy to think about after coming over
from Ohio. But I think it's going to be the
run just because that's going to be the thing that keeps that
lead. If Indiana does get after that
early, and if Indiana is able to come out, get that lead early
on, then they can kind of just put that game away behind the
running game and kind of put the game to rest and put that game
to bed by bleeding out the clock, just letting it go,
pounding the ball down the throats of Michigan.
And it's what we saw. Again, statistically speaking,
this is a similar defense to Nebraska's of what we saw.
And again, it was the run game that dominated the Cornhuskers
in that game. It felt like almost in that
Nebraska game that the Indian offensive line took it as a
challenge amongst themselves to kind of show that dominance and
assert their dominance. I think we see that again on
Saturday against Michigan. I think that the run game will
probably be leaned on a little bit more heavily to hold the
lead. Maybe the passing game is relied
upon to build the lead. But I think once Indiana, if
they are able to get out to that comfortable 2 score lead, 1014,
maybe even 17 point lead, I think it'll be the run game.
That'll be the closing and the closer that brings the win home
for Indiana. Yeah.
The one thing I'm curious about, Joe, as I finish up with you
here is how Michigan chooses to try to attack Indiana
defensively. You know, do they?
I could see Michigan saying we believe that we can overwhelm
this Indiana offensive line, even though that offensive line
is played incredibly so far. And it's a dangerous game that
Michigan has to engage in one way or the other because if they
decide to jam up the run, Curtis Work's shown an ability to get
the ball into space pretty easily and get to that second
level defensively. If they choose to try to fall
into pass coverage, well, they've Justice Ellison, Tyson
Lot. And they've shown that they have
the ability to run the ball, get a big chunks of yardage.
So, you know, ultimately it's interesting because like if you
look at S&P Plus, Michigan's 30th in the country.
If you look at FPI, which doesn't really consider previous
seasons, Michigan's only 46th in the country and Indiana is 10th.
And so that's why Indiana's got a 78% chance of victory in this
one. They're they're considered
essentially a kind of almost a 3 1/2 to one favorite.
It's really going to be interesting to see how Michigan
comes out and tries to play this one.
And I think Zach hit the nail on the head.
If Indiana can get out and get a lead and start to control
things, you really do put yourself in a position where
Michigan, you know, may just not be able to respond because they
haven't shown an ability to put points on the board so far this
year. I was a little conflicted when
going back and forth, is it the run or the pass they rely on
more And I wanted to say the past just because of the
Michigan tried and true is stop the run and force the pass.
But with Michigan, I feel like they're confident in in the four
down lineman that they have to be able to not allow Justice
Ellison and Tyson Lawton to break into that second level to
try and get some contact at the line of scrimmage.
Force these 1-2 yard games, get them behind the sticks a little
more. So I think the run game is going
to be what Indiana relies on a little more, has some more of
these run heavy packages because I don't know if Michigan's going
to come out and try to defend the run as hard as they might
because they do have the talent up front.
Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
We'll see what happens with the whole thing as we end up rolling
into Saturday a lot. They did not rank Michigan in
the CFP. Thank you, Elliot, but a lot
riding on this game for Indiana and certainly a chance to make a
special season even more special as they move forward into the
month of November, or as we are calling it on Crimson Cast Suck
month, since these were the three teams, Michigan and Ohio
State and Purdue, that Kurt Zignetti identified as sucking
in its initial address for the IU fan base.
We're getting the T-shirts made. OK?
They should be out in about a week or so I would hope, but
wait. What?
What does the T-shirts say? They just say suck month.
I mean, what else do they? Oh.
My. That's great.
Anyway, we'll go ahead and wrap things up, and I appreciate
everybody for joining us here on this live Bison chat on Tuesday
night or if you're listening afterwards, we certainly
appreciate you joining us as well.
Indiana 8th in the CFP poll, 9th in the seeding due to the way
that they do the bracketing. A good spot for Indiana to be in
as they get ready for some incredibly consequential games
here over the next four weeks of the college football season.
Zac Brown and thank you for joining us once again on the
show. We always appreciate you being
here. We look forward to having you on
the next time. Joe Cronin, thank you as well.
Our thanks as always to the lovely Emily Fox, who was not
pushing the buttons tonight but uploaded all the videos.
So we appreciate all the work that she did in making things
happen for all those folks. I'm Galen Clavio, thanks for
joining us. You can catch Bison chat every
Tuesday night here on the back Home network.
Be sure to subscribe to the Back home Network YouTube channel as
well as the Crimson cast sub stack.
We will catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the
bison, stay never daunted, so on everybody still going.
I'm not sure why it hasn't stopped yet.