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You're listening to the Back 
Home Network presented by Home 

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Field Apparel. 
Welcome back to Crimson Cask Ale

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and Clavio Scott Caulfield back 
again, the dynamic duo here. 

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It's the last day of June, 
summer just flying by, Scott, 

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just just on a heater so far and
we're back together. 

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When was the last time we 
podcasted? 

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Was it May? 
It's it's been a while. 

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It's the end of the Indy 500. 
Yeah, just bad. 

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We've been trying for a couple 
weeks. 

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Just bad schedules. 
Well, you know, Scott's been off

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in in wine country trying 
different vintages to have 

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shape, you know, crates shipped 
back to his neighborhood. 

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Am I wrong about any of this so 
far? 

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And unfortunately, no, this is 
all, they're all true 

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statements. 
Yeah, we did a did, I mean, 

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yeah, we did a trip to Sonoma. 
We did a trip to Napa two days. 

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It was. 
It was awesome. 

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The Willamette Valley is asking 
like, what do we need to do to 

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get Scott, representing 
Westfield, to come out and 

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sample our wines? 
I mean, yeah, we could in. 

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That's all. 
That's all we have to do. 

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Just need to make the call. 
That was great. 

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We did a day in San Francisco 
and flew back. 

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We had a great time. 
No kids. 

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It's one of the we don't have, 
unfortunately, we don't have a 

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great grandparent reservoir or, 
or a bench of grandparents who 

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can watch the kids. 
So getting time away from the 

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kids is really tough. 
So this was actually a June 2020

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trip that had been postponed 
'cause there's this thing called

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COVID that went around and we 
came back, You know, we had a 

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great time. 
It was fun. 

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It's a it's a positive thing. 
I'm glad you got a chance to get

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away, and it's lots. 
Of wine, lots of wine coming and

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we we have we have wine storage 
in our basement. 

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It's just one fun story with 
this. 

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And I thought everything was all
right, but like my basement 

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isn't cold enough and like even 
learn that red wine should be 

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like if you're storing it for a 
long time, it's even a little 

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bit cooler. 
So we bought it. 

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You need a cave really, which 
I'm shocked you don't own a cave

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in in getting there home field. 
You need to buy more home field 

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shirts and get that that 
sponsorship up a little bit. 

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So we bought a wine fridge, you 
know, that replicates The Cave 

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you speak of from Amazon. 
Never had this from Amazon 

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before where it was 112 LB 
little mini fridge. 

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They delivered a industrial 
power washer to my house. 

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Same poundage. 
Like it's still 114 lbs. 

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It's like I'm on the phone and 
it's like, whoa, like they drive

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away. 
Then it's like there really 

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isn't a button for like, hey, 
you delivered the absolutely 

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wrong thing. 
There's like return it. 

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Like I opened it. 
It wasn't what I wanted. 

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Like, well, it wasn't what I 
wanted and that it's a power 

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washer and like I need to store 
wine. 

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And so I returned it and it's 
it's, it's being the process 

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it's being anyway. 
And then I bought another one 

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and then they didn't ship it and
they so it's like me getting a 

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wine fridge has been a real 
problem anyway. 

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Nobody's listening for 
everybody's like damn. 

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No, no, no, GAIL. 
Double pods please. 

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I am, I am constantly amazed at 
the amount of people who are 

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expressed interest in you, this 
particular aspect of your life. 

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So I actually think we're doing 
folks a favor by talking about 

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this. 
This is this is quite good. 

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The wine fridge thing is funny. 
I, I remember a few years ago I 

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was, I was house shopping in 
Bloomington and there was a 

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house near, so basically kind of
close to campus, but off aways a

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nice mid century modern type of 
place. 

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It had in its basement a wine 
cellar that like I've never seen

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before, like this was a, it was 
almost like it was a glass 

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enclosed room that must have had
storage for 800 bottles of wine.

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It was like, it was insane. 
I was like, what on earth? 

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Like how much wine am I going to
have to buy over time to put in 

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here? 
And then I actually, I know the 

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people who bought that house and
I was talking about it to them a

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couple of years later and they 
were like, yeah, we took that 

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out first thing. 
It's like what we're going to do

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with it. 
And I'm like, oh man, I, I get 

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it. 
I get why you would take that 

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out, but that's, that feels like
a bit of a waste. 

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That's a lot of of 
infrastructure. 

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What do you? 
Pin there like a sauna like you 

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could, you could. 
This was like the perfect spot. 

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It really was. 
It's just, you know, the owners,

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what do they put in? 
Actually, I don't, I didn't ask 

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them. 
I was so taken aback by the fact

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they've taken it out. 
I didn't. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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Anyway, so good to talk to you 
folks again. 

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And just a reminder, we are part
of the Back Home network here on

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Crimson Cast and you can catch 
the other Back Home Network 

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shows regularly, XS and Joes 
with a really fun set of recent 

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episodes and sneak preview. 
I'll be going on XS and Joes, we

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think before the end of the 
month to talk about something 

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that'll be of interest to most 
of you. 

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Also, of course, assembly call. 
They're on a bit of a summer 

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hiatus, as have we been, but 
they're they're they're bringing

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it back here soon. 
You've also, I mean, there's a 

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ton of shows new show launched 
by Austin render the dribble Dr.

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podcast as he explores big 10 
women's basketball with some of 

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the luminaries from across the 
conference. 

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All of us on the big the back 
home network, not the big home 

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network. 
The back home network brought to

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you by home field apparel. 
Your place to go for the finest 

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in college fashions, the softest
fabrics, the coolest designs. 

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I'm wearing, of course, my Let's
shock the world fairly Dickinson

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sweat or just not a sweatshirt 
regular T-shirt today I. 

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Mean we talked about what to 
turn The Cave into like you 

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could. 
I could easily not only have a 

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wine cave but like a home field 
apparel cave for all. 

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Just like maybe, just maybe a 
satellite like T-shirt press, 

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like, you know, when they're, 
when they're extra busy and they

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need shipments, you know? 
You you will you'll store it, 

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but you also you'll print on the
side. 

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Right, you know, kind of like 
those little, those little Rollo

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like label printers, but but for
T-shirts, you know, you're just 

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gonna cricket shirts at your 
house. 

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It's like a satellite T-shirt 
office. 

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I mean, they're they're selling 
enough T-shirts. 

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They they could use some help. 
They just released the Evergreen

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Geoducks collection in the Sweet
Summer 7 collection, if you 

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haven't checked that out, folks.
Fun mascots across the board. 

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Some great stuff. 
Use the code HOME 23, home 2-3 

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and get 15% off your first 
order. 

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And now's a good time to be 
following them on social because

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we're heading into college 
football season, which is really

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one home field. 
Of a fall football thing. 

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You know they will. 
It's going. 

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To be ridiculously good anyway. 
So home field, apparel.com, 

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00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,000
please check them out. 
Also, just a reminder, we're on 

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Sub Stack with several people. 
Sign up for the Sub Stack over 

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the course of the last few days.
Thanks to all of you who have 

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00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,760
joined. 
We've got over 950 people now 

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00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,040
following us on the free Sub 
Stack. 

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You get your podcast delivered 
right to your inbox. 

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You don't have to, you know, 
hack your way through the 

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jungles of social media to find 
our stuff. 

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There's also a paid option if 
you'd like to support the 

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podcast financially. 
It's $5.00 a month, $50 a year. 

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We try to give you some extra 
content. 

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I just released AVIP video last 
week, actually two days ago, I 

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guess, and we may actually do 
another one here with this 

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podcast. 
So you get that, you'll get a 

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00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,080
few other extras as we move 
forward. 

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00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,960
So consider doing that. 
But regardless, sign up for free

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sub stack 
crimsoncast.substack.com. 

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We'd love to have you in the 
community. 

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All right, Scott, we haven't 
talked in a while. 

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So there's lots of different 
directions that we could go with

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things. 
But let's maybe start off by 

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talking about a couple of things
related to IU sports 

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specifically. 
We'll kind of meander into a few

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other categories. 
We let's talk about football 1st

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and you know, we've, we've 
haven't talked a huge amount 

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about the roster yet. 
I think we're going to save that

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until we get a little bit closer
to camp. 

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IU continues to recruit very 
well, which is exciting. 

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We've seen the Hoosiers get, you
know, they just got another wide

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receiver out of Florida this in 
the last couple of days. 

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And so clearly something's 
clicking there. 

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But there were also some changes
that happened with the seating 

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in the stadium. 
We really haven't had a chance 

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to talk about this yet. 
The student section getting both

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expanded and shifted a little 
bit. 

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So now it's taking up most of 
the northeast and north, not 

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quadrant, I guess, but like 
that, that particular wedge of 

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the stadium. 
You've got the Tobias Center, 

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there's some changes going on 
there. 

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You've got rooftop at the Rock. 
They're they're making that like

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a pure event space, it sounds 
like, at least from what we can 

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tell. 
So lots of changes going on in 

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the stadium. 
We've got new vendors coming in 

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for food, which should be, I 
think a good thing. 

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And overall interesting your 
overall thoughts. 

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As you know, you and I have both
been season ticket overs with 

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football for a while. 
I guess where like what? 

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What strikes you from all of 
this and where are you seeing it

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going? 
I'm. 

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Going to start with the so the 
first thing real quick with the 

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players that you mentioned you, 
you I listened to your pod 

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yesterday, you know, and it it 
yeah, of course. 

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And it had you had a very a good
point that I just want to kind 

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of add on there for a second. 
You know, somebody asked the 

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question of, you know, the the 
recruiting seems to be, you 

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know, getting a little bit 
better, but the rankings aren't 

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that good and trying to kind of,
you know, square that circle of 

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the rankings and all that. 
And, and I think that the point 

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is it, it feels like, you know, 
we are not so much recruiting 

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for rankings or, you know, 
player stars, but more for for 

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need. 
I think if you looked at teams 

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like Iowa and Wisconsin, their 
recruiting rankings really 

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doesn't matter. 
Like I don't think their fan 

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bases get too up in arms in it 
because they know they're 

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recruiting for a certain type of
player and whether that player 

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is a one star or a five star. 
It's like we got to get the guys

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that we need in Iowa's case, 
like we just need huge offensive

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lineman and we need to play 
defense and not really worry 

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about offense. 
And so it does feel like 

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Cignetti's doing that. 
And so I I think it's all good 

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there. 
And when you talk about the 

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stadium, you know, I think that 
the student section move. 

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I'm I'm actually more curious 
your thoughts. 

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That's kind of an area that I 
think I think you're moving your

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seats to. 
I've got a couple friends who 

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sat in that area. 
You know, I, it's unfortunate 

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because you know, for those who 
are not season ticket holders, 

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basketball does a reseating 
every single year. 

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So every year you get a time and
you have to go online and you 

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pick your seats and doesn't 
matter what, you can't say I 

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want to save my seats from last 
year. 

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It's like not an option. 
Everyone 100% the deck is 

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reshuffled every single year. 
Football doesn't do that. 

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And it's actually been a little 
bit frustrating at times. 

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Like, you know, my wife and I 
had two tickets and then we had 

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a son. 
We're going to bring our son to 

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the game. 
It's like, well, we can't just 

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add a third ticket because 
there's somebody sitting there. 

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So it's like, if you want a 
third ticket, you now have to 

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move. 
And that's kind of a bummer. 

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And then we had another child. 
You know, kids always mess 

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things up. 
They do. 

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In every walk of life in. 
Every walk of life, yes, but you

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know, so the fact that they 
haven't receded in football and 

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00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,680
don't do it every year, I think 
causes some of these problems. 

225
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,000
I understand why you don't 
because people have areas they 

226
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,320
like to sit in and all that. 
But you know, I, I would say 

227
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,320
that all of this feels like a 
program kind of growing up like 

228
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,160
into adolescence as a program 
that, you know, we're going to 

229
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,320
try and have a cohesive student 
section where they can be there 

230
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,800
and effective and loud and more 
connected. 

231
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,320
I think that's important. 
You're going to have to move 

232
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,800
things around and make that 
happen. 

233
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,040
You know, the, the Tobias Center
you, you mentioned is an area 

234
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,040
that used to be, you know, 
certain levels of varsity club 

235
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:34,560
donors could win there during 
the game. 

236
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:36,480
They're changing that where the,
the ACT. 

237
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,400
You still need to be at a 
certain level with the varsity 

238
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,640
club, but then you also need to 
pay, you know, 500 bucks a head 

239
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,160
to get in there for the season. 
They they're going to add some, 

240
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360
you know, alcohol and food 
pieces to that, to that price. 

241
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,400
It's, it's not awesome, but it's
like, all right, this feels like

242
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,000
a pro again, It's like coming 
out of adolescence, like this is

243
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,320
a program that that's, that's 
growing and kind of there will 

244
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,880
be some growing pains, but 
sorry, I'm kind of all across 

245
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,600
the board. 
I, I think the student section, 

246
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,320
I think it's good to just have 
that like we're going to have a 

247
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,440
cohesive student section. 
We're going to have a student 

248
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,880
section identity. 
I hope the summer out of this 

249
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,800
comes some you know, it's funny.
It's like IU football's almost 

250
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,800
in like the the the burst 
stages, like it'd be cool if 

251
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,840
they came up with some chance or
just, you know, things that kind

252
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,480
of happened during the game 
organically versus like the 

253
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,080
shark attack sounds we make and 
like the first down, like 

254
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,640
there's a lot of weird mismatch 
of, you know, it's almost like a

255
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:27,880
thrift store putting stuff 
together. 

256
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,320
It's like none of it really goes
together. 

257
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,720
So I think hopefully with a one 
student section, you get a 

258
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,920
little more cohesiveness in in 
the stadium. 

259
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,000
Yeah, it's a really interesting 
area. 

260
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,640
And I think you hit the nail on 
the head. 

261
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,800
It is a program that is like, I 
don't know if it's, I don't know

262
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,920
if growing into adolescence is 
quite the right phrase yet 

263
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:53,280
because all of this is still 
preliminary in a lot of ways. 

264
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,040
Like we've tried over the course
of the last 15 years to put 

265
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,960
different things in the stadium.
There's been some changes. 

266
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,600
None of them have really stuck. 
And a lot of it is just because 

267
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,520
there's no culture around IU 
football. 

268
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,560
I mean, there just isn't the 
closest thing. 

269
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,560
What? 
What's puberty like us getting 

270
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,400
our coach hired from some other 
program? 

271
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,200
Like what? 
What does puberty become for us?

272
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,320
I, I, I shudder to think about 
what it might be, but you know, 

273
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,920
the, the lack of culture around 
IU football. 

274
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,680
I mean, what is IU football 
culture? 

275
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,960
When you get right down to it, I
don't think it really exists. 

276
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,520
And that's a combination of a 
bunch of different factors. 

277
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,080
And it's why sustaining things 
here is so difficult in as much,

278
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,720
I mean, even going back to, you 
know, the famous period in the 

279
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,600
late 80s, early 90s where, you 
know, we went to the the went to

280
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,840
bowls relatively regular, went 
to the All American Bowl, went 

281
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,680
to the Peach Bowl, went to the 
Liberty Bowl, went to the Peach 

282
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:52,720
Bowl again. 
And, you know, IU people went to

283
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,320
those bowl games in earnest to 
start with and then stopped 

284
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,720
going because it was almost 
like, well, we've done that. 

285
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,880
You know, the we need to get 
like bigger bowls. 

286
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,920
And, you know, and then the team
was never quite good enough. 

287
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,080
There was never like a culture 
that was built in to celebrate 

288
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,160
all of those things. 
And then immediately afterwards,

289
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,320
you had arguably the worst 
period in IU football history 

290
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,800
from about 1995 to 2000 and 
seven, 2006. 

291
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,640
So you'd. 
Like to call it our time on 

292
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120
campus. 
Yes, that that was our time, you

293
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,240
know, that was when we were 
there. 

294
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:28,240
But that so this is where I 
think the fact that a lot of at 

295
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,960
least externally, a lot of the 
way IU has handled football has 

296
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,600
been as a placeholder to get to 
basketball. 

297
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,360
And I don't necessarily even 
mean in terms of how the fans 

298
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,080
think about it. 
I mean, the athletic department,

299
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,400
you know, so many football 
season ticket holders didn't go 

300
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,600
to games because all they were 
doing was getting extra priority

301
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,920
points for basketball. 
And you know, it's funny, I 

302
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,320
mentioned on a a previous 
podcast, someone asked like, 

303
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,720
what what else do we need to do 
to try to, from lack of a better

304
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,240
term, professionalize the 
football fan experience? 

305
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,720
I was like get rid of pass outs,
No. 

306
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,720
I, I and I completely agree with
you. 

307
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,560
Someone wrote me afterwards, I 
forget who it was, I apologize, 

308
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:09,880
I don't have the name off the 
top of my head. 

309
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,040
And they were like, I was 
talking to somebody about that 

310
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,000
and they said they were going to
stop buying football tickets if 

311
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,520
we couldn't have pass outs 
anymore. 

312
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,000
And that's part of the problem 
is that that's the attitude. 

313
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000
It's like, well, I want these 
tickets and I want to be able to

314
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,480
go in and do whatever and then 
just meander out whenever it 

315
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,120
suits me. 
That is an attitudinal thing on 

316
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,720
the part of the fans. 
And I don't blame them because 

317
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,320
a, the product hasn't been, you 
know, great. 

318
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,880
It's been, the product's been a 
lot better over the last decade 

319
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,480
than most people give it credit 
for. 

320
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,840
Yes, the product was bad the 
last couple of years, but take 

321
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,960
those two years out and you 
know, you're talking about a 

322
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,800
stretch. 
If you go back to 2013, you 

323
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,840
know, you, you had five wins, 
six wins, six wins, five wins, 

324
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,640
five wins, eight wins, you know,
a six and two season. 

325
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,320
I mean, it was, it's been a 
really good vintage of IU 

326
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,280
football, relatively speaking, 
at least enough that you could 

327
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,120
get excited about it. 
And yet we constantly find 

328
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,960
ourselves kind of, you know, 
resetting back to 0 on a lot of 

329
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,600
this stuff. 
And so I do think moving the 

330
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,400
student section around, shifting
some of the seats, it makes some

331
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000
sense. 
There has to be some success on 

332
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,760
the field that can get people 
excited though, in order to make

333
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,240
that feel like it actually was 
in service of something as 

334
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,480
opposed to simply shifting deck 
chairs around. 

335
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,880
You know, I, I at the end of it 
all, but I think that's the 

336
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,600
biggest issue is like I there 
have been attempts in the past 

337
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,880
to improve the overall stadium 
atmosphere, but as you said, 

338
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,720
it's this weird tapestry of 
different special interests. 

339
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,600
You know, it's like, well, the 
band should be important here, 

340
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,120
you know, and, and in the XY and
Z or well, gosh, the kids, what 

341
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,560
about not whole part? 
It's always been like everything

342
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,000
except that, you know what's 
going to help make it the 

343
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,440
toughest atmosphere that you can
play football in. 

344
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,600
It's always been we want our 
special interest accounted for. 

345
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,360
And it's not to say that those 
things aren't important, but 

346
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,319
they're less important than the 
core atmosphere of the stadium. 

347
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,839
And the fact that people get mad
about those little special 

348
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,839
interest things getting 
affected, rather than getting 

349
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:15,480
mad that the atmosphere in the 
stadium is bad, is kind of an 

350
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,520
indication of the larger 
cultural issue that IU football 

351
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,040
has to fix. 
Well, and it feels like, you 

352
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,240
know, athletics, they, they 
treat this with kind of the like

353
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,359
kid gloves, like we can't do 
anything to make people mad 

354
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,760
because we don't want to lose 
ticket holders. 

355
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,760
Like like you said, like, you 
know, like don't do pass outs. 

356
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:30,920
We're like, well, I wouldn't buy
tickets. 

357
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,440
We didn't have pass outs and it 
feels like it's like, all right,

358
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,880
well, we can't do that because 
we're going to lose people. 

359
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,000
Because the trouble is, you 
know, what should be drawing in 

360
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,480
the people, as you said, is like
winning games. 

361
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,520
And the idea should be, you 
know, from from the like, hey, 

362
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,600
man, this is the way we're 
going. 

363
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,480
They should probably reseat the 
stadium every single year 

364
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,960
because you look at basketball, 
there is no like, well, people 

365
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,880
like where they sit and there's,
you know, nobody cares in 

366
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,000
basketball. 
It's like, hey, this is the way 

367
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,080
we're doing it. 
If you don't like it, by all 

368
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,120
means, there's a waiting list. 
We'll let somebody else in. 

369
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,360
The trouble is the football, 
there's not a waiting list. 

370
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,560
And I think if you start pissing
people off trying to make 

371
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,000
they're, they got to walk a fine
line is by doing these changes, 

372
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,360
you're going to piss some people
off. 

373
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,680
What you need is the product to 
be good enough to bring in more 

374
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,040
people. 
Because people will leave. 

375
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,480
Like, man, you know, they'll be 
pissed. 

376
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,000
Like I don't want the student 
section over there. 

377
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,280
Like I'm never buying tickets 
again. 

378
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,640
If you do pass outs like I'll 
never come back again, you have 

379
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,240
to be OK, kind of be like, all 
right, that's good because we'll

380
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,800
lose 20 people, but we're going 
to gain 50 because of the play. 

381
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,360
The trouble with IU football is 
the play hasn't always been 

382
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,920
there enough to draw people back
in or to keep people there. 

383
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,000
And so it does feel like you're 
you're servicing a lot of these 

384
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,560
kind of special interests. 
And you know, go to any other 

385
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,720
major sporting event, there 
aren't pass outs like this is. 

386
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,840
It's not something that's very 
common in other areas. 

387
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,960
Yeah, I mean, the pass out is 
not the same as like the Indy 

388
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,000
500 letting you bring in, you 
know, a 24 pack of beer as long 

389
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,520
as you know, they're in cans. 
Like it's it's not it's it's not

390
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,480
a perdition that we really need 
to save the and then look, 

391
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,080
ultimately you're you you're 
right. 

392
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,360
The product hasn't been great. 
We've been saying for years you 

393
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,840
don't build fan culture and then
have a good team. 

394
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,160
You have a good team and then 
you build fan culture and that 

395
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,320
to me is what's at stake right 
now. 

396
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,800
Over the course of the next five
or six years, however long 

397
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,960
Signetti and this group are 
here, can you actually start to 

398
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,280
build that culture 'cause I 
think it is clear that this 

399
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,640
vintage of IU athletics is 
taking football seriously. 

400
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,440
They're putting money forward, 
They're they're putting an IL 

401
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,320
money forward. 
Like all of that is happening, 

402
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,400
but it has to be something where
you set some rules and I think 

403
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,800
all the rules are reasonable. 
Like the idea that we don't want

404
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,160
to piss people off. 
I, I even think that's a little 

405
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,720
overblown. 
I think it's more, well, since 

406
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,120
most of these people are buying 
tickets for basketball instead 

407
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,520
of football, There's like, 
there's a perceptional issue in 

408
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,440
terms of like, let's make this 
situation as easy as possible 

409
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,960
because we don't want to, like 
we don't want to lose potential 

410
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,840
revenue on the other side of 
things. 

411
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,960
That's, that's, I guess 
ultimately where I'm going with 

412
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,880
this. 
It's ultimately all of these 

413
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,800
changes. 
They're a little abrupt, they 

414
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,960
happened a bit late. 
None of them are unreasonable 

415
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,160
and I actually don't think they 
went far enough with some of 

416
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:11,880
them. 
There has to be something on the

417
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,800
field that's going to make 
people want to come in the 

418
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,400
stadium because, yeah, you could
be upset. 

419
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,280
I don't get pass outs, but at 
the end of the day, if the 

420
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,920
team's winning, you're not going
to want to leave anyway. 

421
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,920
If they're competitive, you're 
not going to want to leave 

422
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,600
anyway. 
That's really where you want to 

423
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,920
get. 
So it's it's really the egg 

424
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,320
coming before the chicken, I 
think in this case. 

425
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,240
The other thing you mentioned 
was the, the variety of new food

426
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,320
or some new food options, which 
I think that's an area where, 

427
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,440
you know, the people who are 
running Memorial Stadium seem to

428
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,240
take a breath, take a deep, hard
look in the mirror and really 

429
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,080
get better at this. 
They've added some, some new 

430
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,880
beer carts. 
They do have some vendors like 

431
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,960
they have the, you know, the 
bends, I think the pretzels and 

432
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,080
they, they have some different 
things going on there, which is 

433
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,600
good. 
They really have to figure out a

434
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,680
way to get better at efficiency,
having all the stands open and 

435
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,000
then having everything that's 
needed and kind of seeing, you 

436
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,680
know, we, we, we harping back to
it. 

437
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,680
So I don't want to keep hitting 
it, but like that Cincinnati 

438
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,720
game in 2021, I believe. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

439
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,920
It was like super hot and there 
was just not enough water. 

440
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,040
And. 
And that's where you got to just

441
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,040
kind of see an audible and be 
like, all right, we're going to 

442
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,600
have a couple stands just 
selling water. 

443
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,840
Just nothing but water. 
You know, I I I was there this 

444
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,480
spring for Kane Brown had a 
concert at Memorial Stadium. 

445
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,240
And by the way, side note, it 
was a kind of a really quirky 

446
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,200
and interesting concert venue. 
I can't remember the last time 

447
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,840
they held, you know, a major 
concert with like, you know, 

448
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,040
25,000 people there. 
It was a cool concert venue. 

449
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,520
The only trouble was the the 
concessions were an absolute 

450
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,880
nightmare, you know that not 
everything was open. 

451
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,560
Everyone guess what, country 
concert, everybody wanted a 

452
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,480
beer. 
They had like 3 beer stands 

453
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,040
going. 
The lines were absurd. 

454
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,200
You know, it's, it's and it's 
those kinds of things that I 

455
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,360
hope they can figure out a way 
to have efficiency hat maybe try

456
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,600
and get some, you know, grab and
go scan in and out kind of 

457
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,520
spots, you know, be a little bit
more progressive with that, 

458
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,120
because that is an area that 
that desperately needs work and 

459
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,280
is, you know, somebody who wants
to watch football games and has 

460
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,120
two kids. 
You know, part of the reason 

461
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,320
that we've been doing the Tobias
Center for the last couple years

462
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,280
is because I'm like, I I don't 
care if I have to give an extra,

463
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,400
you know, big dollar amount to 
the varsity club. 

464
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,000
It's better than waiting in line
for a hot dog and missing an 

465
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,440
entire quarter, which has 
happened at times. 

466
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,080
So, you know, they need to 
figure those things out. 

467
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,480
So I hope as they add more of 
those vendors, they're able to 

468
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,320
do that because the the two 
concourses on the two main 

469
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,400
sections, there's a ton of room 
there. 

470
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,520
So, you know, I know they can't 
build more physical session 

471
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,520
stands under the stadium, but 
you have tons of room where you 

472
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,160
could have little pop ups and 
and, you know, try and it that's

473
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,480
something that hasn't changed in
years. 

474
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,680
And I really hope does start to 
be changed because it it becomes

475
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,600
a very tough process. 
And as a fan who, you know, when

476
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,960
you want the full crowd stadium,
you want the place full and then

477
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,440
to see it like, you know, 
basically all of the processes 

478
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,160
not working and everything 
breaking apart. 

479
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,480
It's like this. 
We need to be ready to handle 

480
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,720
55,000 people a a weekend for 
eight weekends a year. 

481
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,080
Yeah. 
We'll see. 

482
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,200
It should be an interesting 
atmosphere with eight home games

483
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,160
this year. 
So it'll be it'll be something. 

484
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,800
So we'll look forward to talking
more about that as we move 

485
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,120
forward as well as what's going 
on with the roster as that 

486
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,200
continues to build, not just for
this upcoming year, but for next

487
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,880
year as well. 
Let's switch gears to IU 

488
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,200
basketball. 
Of course, the big news from 

489
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,200
this past week, Khalil Ware 
getting drafted a bit earlier 

490
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,080
than a lot of people that are 
projected him going to the Miami

491
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,280
Heat. 
And this is yet another IU 

492
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,320
player that gets drafted. 
It it feels like to some degree,

493
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:43,680
you know, in this day and age, 
you, you know, needing that 

494
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,760
additional boost to being able 
to say we're placing players in 

495
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,200
the NBA. 
It really does help not just in 

496
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,280
terms of regular recruiting, but
in terms of portal recruiting. 

497
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,200
And you know, you likes, you 
know, ideally we want to see 

498
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,720
more of that occurring moving 
forward in terms of like not 

499
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,760
just landing those types of 
players, but also the case with 

500
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,280
Khalil Ware where his draft 
stock was in some significant 

501
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,920
jeopardy coming here. 
And not only does he stabilize 

502
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,280
it, but he improves 
significantly on the position. 

503
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,840
And you know, you got to give 
Mike Woodson credit for that in 

504
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,080
terms of his development. 
And this is now, you know, you 

505
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,360
you add Jalen Uchefino to that 
mix. 

506
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,200
Trace Jackson Davis was drafted 
pretty late, but clearly had a 

507
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,920
great first season as a member 
of the Golden State Warriors. 

508
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,680
I mean, like I, I, he's a, he's 
a success story because he was 

509
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,320
basically off draft boards for 
most of his time at IU and he 

510
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:38,760
got drafted. 
That's a big deal. 

511
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,400
Yeah. 
And so, you know, without, 

512
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,720
without, it's one small piece of
things. 

513
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,560
But I, I do think that with the 
way that things are situated now

514
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,240
and with NIL Bunny being what it
is, this is still a piece that 

515
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,480
matters to to athletes. 
It's like this idea that I need 

516
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,040
to go somewhere where I'm going 
to be put into position where I 

517
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,880
have a good chance of not just 
getting drafted, but getting 

518
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,000
drafted in the first round. 
And that's, you know, whatever 

519
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,920
criticisms or concerns we might 
have about other aspects of the 

520
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,200
program, this does not appear to
be one that we need to worry 

521
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,560
about. 
I mean, this is when you look at

522
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,600
what IU's been able to do and I 
think you're going to get this 

523
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,800
again because it's a really good
chance Omar Balo's going to be 

524
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,640
drafted at a pretty high number,
especially when you see where 

525
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,840
Zach Edie went in the draft 
higher than a lot of people 

526
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,280
thought. 
Maybe there's some changing 

527
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,360
thought processes about that 
type of player at the NBA level.

528
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,960
Even though Ballo did most of 
his college career in Arizona, I

529
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,400
use going to get the credit when
and if he's drafted in the first

530
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,880
round next year. 
This is a nice spot to be and 

531
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,680
it's a spot I think that's been 
a little touch and go over time.

532
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,720
You know, especially in the 
Archie era, Romeo Langford 

533
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,360
excluded, it kind of was like, 
well, like even when even when 

534
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,160
you didn't have guys drafted, it
didn't feel like that was going 

535
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,640
to happen. 
It kind of feels like it's going

536
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,040
to happen regularly with Woodson
at this point. 

537
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:00,680
Yeah, you texted me this this 
morning. 

538
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,800
I started thinking about it. 
You know, to me, for a lot of 

539
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,440
ways the comp of Khalil Ware has
to me always been Noah Vonle in 

540
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,640
that, you know, Vonle came in 
pretty highly recruited. 

541
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,720
He was drafted 9th, so got even 
drafted higher. 

542
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,760
But in a season where kind of 
not a lot, not a lot happened 

543
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,160
from a, you know, basket the 
team didn't make the, you know, 

544
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,800
didn't have anything happen that
year though Vonle was there. 

545
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,160
You know, with with those two 
years, you know, the year before

546
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,440
you had Oladipo going 2nd and 
Zeller going fourth. 

547
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,840
In the draft he had second, 
fourth. 

548
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,600
The next year he had a 9th. 
You would have thought at that 

549
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,080
point too. 
It's like, all right, well, now 

550
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,800
we are swimming in these waters.
And then we really didn't swim 

551
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,520
in those waters again for a 
while. 

552
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,720
You know, where where I think 
things could be different is it 

553
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,360
did feel like, you know, quick 
thought not going to re litigate

554
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:45,640
the green area. 
It didn't feel like at that 

555
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,520
point Crean kind of shifted his 
recruiting from, you know, up to

556
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,920
that point. 
It was kind of like team 

557
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,800
building and getting local 
players and trying to get one or

558
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,840
two and getting lucky with a kid
like Zeller being in Indiana and

559
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,880
then trying to get a couple of 
you know, we'll get old depot to

560
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,920
see if we can get it better, you
know, get somebody who can get 

561
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,920
better. 
And it felt like Crean just went

562
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,640
off the now I want nothing but 
top 25 picks and it didn't work 

563
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,080
out with what we've seen with 
Woodson. 

564
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,880
It does feel like this is this 
is kind of been his mode of 

565
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,200
operation from the get go is I'm
going after some high level, you

566
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,280
know, recruits and kids like 
Jalen Hutchefino. 

567
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,720
I'll get some, I won't get 
others. 

568
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,280
But then every year in the 
portal, we're going to be 

569
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,240
playing for the the top dollar 
guys. 

570
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,640
And and it feels like this is 
more replicatable where other 

571
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,760
times when coaches have had 
success at IU, it feels like 

572
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,400
they're recruiting strategy that
immediately changes to something

573
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,720
that they pivot to something 
else. 

574
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,520
It doesn't feel like it feels 
like this is what Woodson's 

575
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,280
going to do. 
And I agree, if this is all 

576
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,200
good, like in the end, NIL is 
awesome. 

577
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,520
But if you can make you can show
players a path to the NBA, 

578
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,000
there's way more money there 
than NIL. 

579
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,040
You know, the asterisk and the 
caveat I think a lot of fans 

580
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,280
feel is like this is all great, 
but like you, you then have to 

581
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,880
now turn turn this into success 
on the court. 

582
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,840
Yeah, here's a little trivia for
you, Scott. 

583
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:05,520
OK, Since 1994, Since that, 
Since the end of the 94 draft, 

584
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,200
How many first round draft picks
does Purdue have? 

585
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,840
That's a great question. 
Including Zach Edie. 

586
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:19,880
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, 94 was Glenn Robinson. 

587
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,080
So you're you're you're 
excluding. 

588
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,120
Host Glenn Robinson. 
So, so starting with the 95 

589
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,880
draft, which seems like a very, 
very poignant start date, I'm 

590
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,520
going to say one. 
Is it one? 

591
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,880
It's more than that. 
So they had. 

592
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,760
So Purdue has four in that time 
period. 

593
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,240
They have, they have Zach Edie, 
obviously. 

594
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,800
Two years ago they had Jayden 
Ivey. 

595
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,160
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

596
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,320
Caleb Swan again, yeah. 
And then Juwan Johnson and Swan 

597
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,880
again. 
Juwan Johnson were kind of back 

598
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,440
of the first round. 
Do you want to guess how many 

599
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,120
first round draft picks Indiana 
has during that same time 

600
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,560
period? 
1995 The Press, You. 

601
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Just came five, so I mean 
there's probably 8. 

602
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,200
It's more than that, believe it 
or not. 

603
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,600
So here's the first round draft 
picks Indiana has since the 95 

604
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,360
draft. 
Allen Henderson, Brian Evans, 

605
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680
Jason Collier, Kirk Haston, 
Jared Jeffries. 

606
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,360
We're already up to five. 
DJ White, Eric Gordon, Jordan 

607
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,480
Crawford kind of cheating there,
but we're going to we're going 

608
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,480
to throw him into the mix as he 
didn't play at Indiana. 

609
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,560
Cody Zeller, Victor Oladipo, 
Noah Vonle, OG Anna Nobi, Romeo 

610
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,560
Langford, Jalen Uchefino, Khalil
Ware. 

611
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280
Even if you take out the Jordan 
Crawford pick, that's fourteen 

612
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,160
first round draft picks for 
Indiana in that time period, 

613
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,080
which is fascinating because it 
kind of feels like when I think 

614
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,160
about the reputation of Indiana,
it doesn't feel like a place 

615
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,800
that's pumped out that many 
first round draft picks in the 

616
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,880
in that span of time. 
And granted, if you compare it 

617
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,960
to Kentucky or Duke, it's 
significantly less, but it's 

618
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,800
wild that there's that much of a
disparity in that time period. 

619
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,960
It's also a little sad that 
Indiana's had that many first 

620
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,120
round draft picks and there 
hasn't been more on court 

621
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,320
success across multiple coaches 
during that time period. 

622
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,000
But I, I was well on draft 
night, I was kind of poking 

623
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
around looking at that. 
I was like, damn, that's that's 

624
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,480
a lot of people over the course 
of you. 

625
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Know, I guess which 30 years 
now, but still, yeah, no, it's 

626
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,280
it's it's it's a fairpoint and I
think I think it goes to show 

627
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,920
that this is a a word you use a 
lot like this is an alchemy like

628
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,800
it's it's not just getting good 
players. 

629
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,440
You have to get good players 
with, you know, the right team 

630
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,480
around them and, you know, 
getting the the supporting 

631
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,720
players as well. 
And it, it does feel like 

632
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,040
Indiana in that time, you know, 
has either gone way too hard one

633
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,440
way or the other. 
It's like we're just, we're 

634
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,640
either not swimming in those 
waters. 

635
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,720
We're going to get a bunch of 
two stars, see what we can do, 

636
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,960
or we're going to get a couple 
of, you know, five star stud 

637
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,120
recruits and then put, you know,
a bunch of one stars around it. 

638
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,480
Or just we're not going to put 
together the plan of who else 

639
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,120
we're going to get that. 
Yeah, that's that's I mean, and 

640
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,080
the Purdue thing is real. 
Like that's just, you know, they

641
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,360
have a system and their system 
really doesn't need and or 

642
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,120
feature high level players like 
that. 

643
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,920
Yeah, it's and the whole thing's
interesting to me and, and even 

644
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,200
if you take, you know, second 
round draft picks, I mean, 

645
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,960
Indiana's pretty much, you know,
pretty consistent in that on 

646
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,280
that front as well. 
So I don't know, just some 

647
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520
interesting things. 
It's the middle of summer, you 

648
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,680
know, we're we're just looking 
for stuff to talk about at this 

649
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,560
point, but but anyway, the. 
Thing is that the draft still 

650
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,800
matters, and I think as 
everything was changing in 

651
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,080
college basketball, you know, 
money's still a big piece. 

652
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,600
You know, NIO probably in some 
places means more to the players

653
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,000
on, you know, programs that are 
not, you know, don't have a real

654
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,080
perfect like, you know, lacrosse
or swimming or areas where 

655
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,280
there's not a real, you know, 
professional piece for if you're

656
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,680
a top level, you know, Khalil 
Ware type who thinks you can get

657
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,760
to the NBANIL is kind of nice to
have along the way. 

658
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,840
But now what Khalil Ware is 
going to earn in the NBA, and if

659
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,040
he can stay in the NBA for a 
second contract is going to far,

660
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,640
far exceed anything he'd ever 
get in NIL. 

661
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,640
Yeah. 
Well, the other reason that I 

662
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,720
think it's important is I mean, 
if you look at the start of the 

663
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,280
draft, the, the, the early 
rounds of the, or the early 

664
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,680
picks in this draft, a lot of 
people from France, a lot of 

665
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,200
people from overseas. 
And it really does feel like 

666
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,040
there, there should be some 
warning bells going off in terms

667
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,400
of the way American basketball 
and especially college 

668
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,800
basketball is thinking about 
this. 

669
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Because it felt like, you know, 
the big winners of the first 

670
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,680
half of the draft were France 
and the G League and college 

671
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:26,720
basketball, so much gets caught 
up in this idea of college 

672
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,680
basketball. 
You know, is, is you know, about

673
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,400
school as much as about 
basketball. 

674
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,920
Meanwhile, we find more and more
that being a professional 

675
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,560
basketball player, you're 
probably going to go to the G 

676
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,720
League, you're probably going to
go to, to your, or, you know, if

677
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,080
you're, if you're European, you 
may stay in Europe, stay in your

678
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,400
Academy system 'cause you have a
better shot at going to the pros

679
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,680
that way. 
You know, the, it's almost like,

680
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,040
I think college basketball, if 
you think about it as a media 

681
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,680
entity needs stars. 
And if you think about the 

682
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,360
stardom that college basketball 
players are able to acquire and,

683
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,400
and maintain and also the money 
now that they're able to make, 

684
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,480
that almost becomes like a, you 
know, that becomes your 

685
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,480
professional career to some 
degree. 

686
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,960
It keeps the sport alive. 
And it also can put you in a 

687
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,920
position where people think you 
should be drafted perhaps higher

688
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,040
than you actually should be 
drafted. 

689
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,080
A lot of people got upset that 
like Dalton Connect didn't get 

690
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,840
drafted earlier. 
And you know, GM said, well, 

691
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,440
it's the age thing. 
Like he's just, he's too old. 

692
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,720
Why would you draft a 24 year 
old or 23 year old when you 

693
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,680
could draft an 18 or 19 year 
old? 

694
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,200
Because you're drafting on 
potential. 

695
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,280
You're drafting on the fact that
you want to get that player in 

696
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,040
their prime. 
If he turns into a a star, you 

697
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,080
want to be able to sign that 
player or have the rights to 

698
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,080
sign that player at a higher 
level than the other teams in 

699
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,160
the league. 
This is how the the collective 

700
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,080
bargaining agreement works. 
So I look at it from college 

701
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,600
basketball. 
If college basketball had 

702
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,280
anybody in charge, if there was 
anybody running it that was 

703
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,680
thinking holistically, anybody 
at all, they would be like, 

704
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,920
look, there are a lot of 
basketball players that people 

705
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,880
like watching that are connected
to brands that people like 

706
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,400
watching in college basketball. 
Why don't we steer into that 

707
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,560
more because, you know, are we 
going to have the same ratings 

708
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,639
as the NBA? 
Not necessarily. 

709
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:20,760
But look, Caitlin Clark's a 
great example of this. 

710
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,880
If you look at the ratings that 
Caitlin Clark games had, not 

711
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,880
just regular season, but 
tournament games. 

712
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,080
You know, the, the, the national
title game two years in a row, 

713
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,960
like outstripped the men's 
national title game, like 

714
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,840
outstripped a lot of other of 
other games. 

715
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,000
Well, that's not just, I mean, 
Caitlin Clark was kind of a 

716
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,840
phenomenon, but the idea that 
star power at the college level 

717
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:46,800
matters and in relation to the 
draft, it it's it's something 

718
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,639
where you can, if you've got 
better rules, I think you can be

719
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:52,960
a place where you can cultivate 
top level talent. 

720
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,239
They can get paid at a higher 
level than they do at the G 

721
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,200
League level or overseas. 
But this is where the NCAA keeps

722
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,320
handcuffing itself to a terrible
model because the, you know, all

723
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,760
the restrictions on practice and
development, all the 

724
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,960
restrictions on when you can 
meet with coaches and get 

725
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,960
coached. 
It it's like it makes it a less 

726
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,360
serious option for player 
development, which is why a lot 

727
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,400
of these college players don't 
get drafted as high. 

728
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,280
It's why scouts go out of their 
way to say, here's what this guy

729
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,760
can't do, whereas they focus on 
what the people overseas can do.

730
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,880
So this go ahead. 
I was. 

731
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Just saying just, you know, 2 
two things. 

732
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,400
You know, one, you talk about, 
you know, the the interest of 

733
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,520
the American players, you know, 
listening to any of the draft, 

734
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,520
you know, previews, which I did,
you know, it's all talk about, 

735
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,080
you know, Donovan Kling And I 
think where Edie was going to go

736
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,200
was a big part of this draft. 
Obviously Ronnie James is kind 

737
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,440
of a, you know, unique story 
that got a lot of interest. 

738
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,680
But, you know, people were 
talking about Klingon and, you 

739
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,160
know, Reed Shepherd and then you
mentioned, you know, Dalton 

740
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,880
connect like, and then he'd be 
like, Oh yeah, and the French 

741
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,040
guys anyway, you know, but do 
you think Steven Castle could 

742
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,840
run? 
I mean, like even all of the 

743
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,360
draft infrastructure we have 
here is focused on the people 

744
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,560
that they know and they've seen 
just because they've seen them 

745
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,000
play and they've seen, you know,
Klingon do it in games. 

746
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,200
And there's, you know, 
breakdowns of his game against 

747
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,160
Illinois as you've seen it. 
The other thing I'm stealing 

748
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,040
this from Bill Simmons podcast. 
If you've heard it, I apologize.

749
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,200
And I I did not Fact Check this,
but I was listening to it. 

750
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,640
I got it right in my head. 
But here's a trivia question for

751
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,440
you. 
With all the French players 

752
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,880
going first. 
Reed Shepherd was the 3rd pick 

753
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,440
out of Kentucky. 
And Simmons is like, this is the

754
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,160
first American born white guy in
a long time to go this high in 

755
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,920
the draft. 
Do you know that the last 

756
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,280
highest drafted white American 
player to go to go higher that 

757
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,720
to be the first pick, the 1st 
pick that's not, you know, first

758
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,080
American player is. 
White. 

759
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:50,440
I understand what you mean. 
The Christian Laettner. 

760
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,040
I don't know. 
No IU ties. 

761
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,840
IU ties. 
I'm no who was it? 

762
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:02,840
Kent Benson. 
Oh, wow. 

763
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,840
Yeah, Jeez, that's that is 76, 
Yeah. 

764
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,560
Or 77, number one. 
Yeah. 

765
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,400
Well, that is pretty, pretty. 
Well, the whole Reed Shepherd 

766
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,720
thing is fascinating. 
It's a kind of a good example of

767
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,360
what I'm talking about here. 
And as much as, you know, for 

768
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,960
the longest, I remember reading,
I think, I think that was the 

769
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,120
recruitment they were talking 
about where like Calipari was 

770
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,440
uncertain if this was a guy they
wanted to draft or wanted to 

771
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:28,760
drive. 
Well, I mean, it's Kentucky. 

772
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,800
So he might definitely say that 
if they wanted to recruit, it 

773
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,320
was it was out of character to 
the types of players that 

774
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,320
Calipari was bringing in. 
But it look, I, I think a, a lot

775
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,440
of the attitudes towards 
basketball talent in the United 

776
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,880
States have been kind of 
calcified over the course of the

777
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,240
last 30 years in or 40 years 
really in terms of like who's 

778
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,000
good, who's not good, where 
you're going to get serious 

779
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,960
talent. 
Meanwhile, the rest of the 

780
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,440
world, at least the parts that 
care about basketball, really 

781
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,640
feel like they've decided 
they're going to throw all that 

782
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,680
out and they're completely 
changing their approach to how 

783
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,000
they develop players. 
This is something that I talk 

784
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,520
about quite a bit. 
This, you know, the, as much as 

785
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,200
gets complained about the pay 
for play system in the United 

786
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,160
States and it is bad at the, at 
the youth level. 

787
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,880
There's also such little 
organization and such little 

788
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,400
structure in the way that 
players get developed. 

789
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,320
And you get a lot of basketball 
people who get kind of crotchety

790
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,200
when you talk about this stuff. 
But it's hard to, you know, when

791
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,560
you look at soccer development 
in Europe and the, the coaching 

792
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,000
badges that you have to earn in 
order to be rated to coach youth

793
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
and be employed by youth 
academies. 

794
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,880
And you look at the United 
States system and it is, it is a

795
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,240
free for all. 
You know, sometimes you get 

796
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:51,360
really good people in there who 
know what they're talking about.

797
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,760
Sometimes you get people with 
some questionable intent. 

798
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,680
Sometimes you get people who 
just want to be around the game 

799
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,840
but aren't very good at 
coaching. 

800
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,480
And, and there's such a focus on
a, taking money out of the 

801
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,080
pockets of the, of whoever's 
paying for, whether it's the 

802
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,960
parents or whoever. 
And B games, travel, you know, 

803
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,800
playing against other teams. 
And it's not just there's no 

804
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,200
practice in. 
This travel stuff, it's just. 

805
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,240
For games and it's and it's not 
just basketball, it it's 

806
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,400
baseball. 
It's like it's just this, it's 

807
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,560
this endemic thing throughout 
most of American sport. 

808
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,160
And, and again, there are 
exceptions and there are, you 

809
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,560
know, there are smaller 
academies that develop players 

810
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,760
very well. 
But if you look at it as a 

811
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,560
whole, it's very uneven. 
And you know, American 

812
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,200
basketball has lasted like it's 
it's survived up to this point 

813
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,760
internationally because of how 
much athleticism exists within 

814
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,280
the American game. 
And the fact that when you've 

815
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,400
got 300 and some million people 
and you've got a certain 

816
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,920
quotient of people that have 
that level of athleticism, 

817
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,120
you're just by natural, you 
know, by by the force of of 

818
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,920
numbers, you're going to get 
some people that come through 

819
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,360
the fire on the other side and 
you get a LeBron James or you 

820
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,520
get an Anthony Edwards. 
You know that that. 

821
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,320
That will always be an advantage
that America has because it's 

822
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,120
the largest country by far 
population wise of the countries

823
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,520
that care about basketball. 
But when you look at how, how 

824
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,120
far above their, their weight 
that like a Slovenia or a 

825
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,560
Croatia or a Serbia punches or 
even France, which I mean, who 

826
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,440
thinks of France when they think
of like great centers of 

827
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,680
basketball? 
And yet you look at the players 

828
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,280
that France has developed and 
generated over the course of 

829
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,840
time. 
And it's like, wow, that what 

830
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,080
what you hope to see and what 
I'd love college to do is rather

831
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,080
than take the approach they've 
taken over the course of time, 

832
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,880
which is basically, we are going
to set the bar from a player 

833
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,280
development perspective at the 
lowest common denominator, like 

834
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,680
the Division Three school. 
Because we're going to have 

835
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,480
these basically be the same 
rules that we use at upper 

836
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,960
levels. 
Not completely, but you know 

837
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,560
what I mean? 
Even the lowest Division One 

838
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,520
team, it's like, well, you don't
have the resources to do that. 

839
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,040
Fine. 
You're the standard. 

840
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,760
Everybody else has to adhere to 
that, which is how you end up 

841
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,880
with limited days that you can 
be in contact with coaches, 

842
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,680
limited official time to 
practice during the week. 

843
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,360
Again, you look at it from an 
academic perspective, and I say 

844
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,880
this as an academic. 
This has always been to me, the 

845
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,000
real problem with trying to 
balance academics and athletics.

846
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,560
These are top level athletes. 
These are elite athletes. 

847
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,560
These are people who in any 
other country should be training

848
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,440
and practicing essentially as 
their job from the time they're 

849
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,440
eighteen, maybe even slightly 
before that. 

850
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,000
Not being forced to take a 15 
hour credit load while also 

851
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,680
practicing, you know, 4 hours a 
day and also being in the weight

852
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,920
room for three hours a day. 
Like it's it's not a serious way

853
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,280
to go about sport training. 
And since there is no other 

854
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,320
sizable way to train basketball,
you can do this in football to 

855
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,480
some degree because there's 
nobody competing with this in in

856
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,880
the rest of the world on 
football. 

857
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,960
But in basketball where there 
is, in soccer where there is, 

858
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,960
this is a really stupid way to 
go about handling players that 

859
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,720
are between the ages of 18 and 
22. 

860
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,200
Agreed. 
I also think, again, this is 

861
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,160
where someone was in charge, 
they would see this. 

862
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,720
You know, obviously college 
basketball has a very close 

863
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:16,160
relationship with the NBA, but 
you know, the NBA is trying to 

864
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,200
do this with the G League and G 
League Ignite. 

865
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,920
They've had some success. 
You know, Scoot Henderson got 

866
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,720
highly drafted. 
I'm not sure he looked ready, 

867
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,600
but that maybe is him. 
Not the the but you know, you're

868
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,800
seeing both the Thompson 
brothers went through kind of a 

869
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,200
a training program like that. 
Like if if there was someone in 

870
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,520
charge of college basketball, I 
agree with you. 

871
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,920
You get rid of some of these 
limits. 

872
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,040
And honestly, this is a much 
better path. 

873
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,800
It's like, hey, you could go to 
G League unite and you could do 

874
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,640
nothing but basketball with 
train people. 

875
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,240
But like you're immediately 
playing with adults who are 

876
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:43,800
professionals who really don't 
care. 

877
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,800
You know, the other teams you're
playing don't care about your 

878
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,320
development. 
These are dudes just trying to 

879
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,680
get a paycheck out of your 
mouth, which I understand in 

880
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,200
college basketball you're still 
going for, but at least you 

881
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:56,120
you're going against people who 
are in the same phylum of, you 

882
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,600
know, 18 to 23 and you know, 
they're all trying to get the 

883
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,320
same thing. 
But there is something different

884
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,880
about like the professional 32 
year old basketball player in 

885
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,280
the G league who is trying to 
get back up, like he does not 

886
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,880
care about an 18 year old kids 
projection or, you know, injury,

887
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,920
things like that. 
They they play with different 

888
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,440
kinds of tricks. 
And so I but again, there's no 

889
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,600
one in college basketball 
monitoring or doing this. 

890
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,680
But like this is what I think is
interesting is if, you know, if 

891
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,840
the NBA was able to figure this 
out, it does feel like they'd be

892
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,600
totally cool getting their own 
development system and just 

893
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,120
cutting the top level talent out
of college basketball and just 

894
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,320
putting it into the G League. 
But that, you know, they've been

895
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,360
trying that for 20 years and 
that's not happening either. 

896
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,080
So it's like it's it kind of 
continues to fall on college 

897
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,280
basketball. 
But there I'm with you, having 

898
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,760
all of these arcane rules, 
especially now with everything 

899
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,360
changing, doesn't make any 
sense. 

900
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,480
And it is interesting that G 
League Ignite is gone and, you 

901
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,520
know, specifically NIL and the 
changing college basketball 

902
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,320
landscape because they're like 
before it was like, well, you 

903
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,200
had the choice of either I'm 
going to go to G League Ignite 

904
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,840
and not very make very much 
money, relatively speaking, but 

905
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,200
it'll raise my draft stock. 
Except it wasn't raising the 

906
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,680
draft stock of those people. 
And now they're missing out on 

907
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,640
NIL opportunities. 
So now essentially you've got 

908
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,880
like you've got overtime elite, 
right? 

909
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,760
And that's about it. 
But that doesn't mean that the 

910
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,440
college system is better in 
terms of development. 

911
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,760
It just means that you can get 
paid money at the college level.

912
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,360
And this is where ultimately, as
much as we hear people talking 

913
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,880
about why don't we just split 
football off and make it its own

914
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,400
thing. 
And at the college level, to me,

915
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,960
it's like we need to start 
taking the development of our 

916
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,920
basketball players more 
seriously because, you know, 

917
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,000
we've already seen the US lose, 
you know, gold medal rounds in 

918
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,720
in the international 
tournaments. 

919
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,840
And it's hit or miss now. 
But like the rest of the field 

920
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,640
is caught up. 
Same thing happening in women's 

921
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,640
soccer, by the way, like the 
advantage that the US women's 

922
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,080
national team had from title 
9:00 and from the 25 year jump 

923
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,200
start that they got on the rest 
of the world in terms of taking 

924
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,000
female athletics seriously, at 
least in soccer, that's gone. 

925
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,480
Like you look across the, you 
know, it's, it's the, you know, 

926
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,920
Germany and France and England 
and Spain and China and Brazil, 

927
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,400
like the, the European countries
in particular, they have 

928
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,320
professional women's leagues and
soccer, they've really caught 

929
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:19,840
up. 
They're taking it a lot more 

930
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,880
seriously now, I would argue 
than the US is where if you're a

931
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,200
female soccer player, you don't 
have a lot of options other than

932
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,760
college, which is incredibly 
restrictive or going overseas, 

933
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,040
which kind of defeats the 
purpose, you know? 

934
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,840
So these are the kinds of things
to think about and they get lost

935
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,080
in the the headlines regarding 
like NIL and the changing 

936
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,480
college sports landscape. 
But they're things that we need 

937
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,880
to think about 'cause there's 
great coaches, like great 

938
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,760
basketball minds at the college 
level. 

939
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,000
When people ask why would you 
leave that to go to the NBA? 

940
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,600
You know, people were asking 
that about Dan Hurley. 

941
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,800
Why would he leave UConn? 
I mean, he'll get paid plenty of

942
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,640
money, but you are limited in 
the amount of coaching you can 

943
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,200
actually do at this level you 
are in. 

944
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:05,400
And college coaches have to be 
logistics experts and they have 

945
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,920
to manage personalities among 
parents and donors, and they 

946
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,400
have to go out and fundraise 
like they're doing that. 

947
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,600
It feels like more than they're 
doing actual coaching and 

948
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,160
instruction. 
You don't get a whole lot of 

949
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,000
time to do that, relatively 
speaking, at the college level, 

950
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,600
regardless of the sport that 
you're in. 

951
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,720
These are the kinds of things 
that I think for the US as a 

952
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:30,280
country to take sport as 
seriously as it does and yet 

953
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,840
allow this kind of Mickey Mouse.
Set of rules to be in place as 

954
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,600
far as the most important years 
arguably of a player's 

955
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,760
development doesn't make a whole
lot of sense. 

956
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,440
Well, it's also funny that we 
are one of the few countries 

957
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,520
that just immediately 
specializes kids when they're 

958
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,760
7-8 years old and that doesn't 
seem to be working either like 

959
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,120
it does, you know, all these 
areas. 

960
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,760
Doesn't seem like we are owning 
any of these sports that we're 

961
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,800
having kids specialize in. 
And the kids who just kind of, 

962
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,360
you know, play a lot of sports 
until they're 12 and then 

963
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,440
suddenly figure out what they 
want to do and get into it. 

964
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:00,880
Yeah, that seems to be the way 
to go. 

965
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,200
But yet we're not, we're not 
doing that real quick. 

966
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,440
You just mentioned the Dan 
Hurley thing. 

967
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,760
I, I thought it was funny. 
I mean, obviously the Lakers 

968
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,240
didn't offer enough money to 
make that really a real 

969
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,920
decision, which is a whole 
different discussion of podcast.

970
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,680
But I did think some of the 
discussion, you know, people 

971
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:15,880
were like, man, why would he 
leave UConn? 

972
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,280
He's got it made there in the 
shade. 

973
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,280
And my thing was like, dude, he 
could leave UConn, go to the 

974
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,240
Lakers. 
He could do awful. 

975
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:26,200
He could lose 70 games in a row.
The minute he is fired from the 

976
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,160
Lakers. 
He would have his pick of any 

977
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,840
job he wanted in college, 
probably the UConn job again. 

978
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,280
So there is definitely an 
inertia of once you get going, 

979
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,440
it's easy to get going. 
And you once Schefsky built 

980
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,360
Duke, it's like you kind of it's
just a battleship that's moving 

981
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,480
the right direction. 
So he would have to restart that

982
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,520
somewhere else. 
But this idea of like, man, I 

983
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,360
don't know, man, you have a 
great job in college basketball.

984
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,160
It's like, dude, he would have 
the pick of any job like he 

985
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,200
wanted, no matter irregardless 
of what happened at the Lakers. 

986
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:57,560
Anyway, I just thought that was 
that. 

987
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,040
That was funny. 
No, it is. 

988
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,960
And ultimately I, I mean Hurley 
could have done whatever he 

989
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,240
wanted. 
I mean, Hurley could have 

990
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:06,720
probably run for governor of 
Connecticut if he wanted to and 

991
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,240
and gotten that job easily. 
So but no, you're right. 

992
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,880
I mean, the, the idea of you 
could leave and I think 

993
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,760
ultimately it's like if you, you
never know if this, the thing 

994
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,840
that you've developed is going 
to be the same if you go 

995
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,520
somewhere else. 
I actually think This is why Bob

996
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,920
Knight didn't leave IU. 
The couple of times that he 

997
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,200
thought about leaving IU, it's 
like, well, I've already got 

998
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,680
this built. 
And as we saw, even though he 

999
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,160
was, it was later in his life, 
like it's hard to go somewhere 

1000
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,440
else and build something. 
There's no guarantee it's going 

1001
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,160
to happen again. 
But I don't know, it's from from

1002
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,920
the perspective of, yeah, he'll,
that dude will always have the 

1003
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,840
opportunity to coach at the 
college level if he wants it. 

1004
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,400
He could have gone somewhere 
else. 

1005
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:50,360
And maybe that says something 
about the Lakers as. 

1006
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,920
An NBA guy also, I think it has 
way more to do with the Lakers 

1007
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:54,800
that, you know, and I thought it
was funny that they, you know, 

1008
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,200
everyone's like, Oh my God, you 
know, it's such an 

1009
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,240
embarrassment. 
It's like, well, you know, 

1010
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,680
Schefsky turned down the Lakers 
like people can turn down the 

1011
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,760
Lakers like they'll do OK. 
I think that's more like I think

1012
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,840
that's a mess of a team with a 
bad salary cap. 

1013
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,880
It's like you have a 41 year old
LeBron who at some point is 

1014
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,600
going to start declining, you 
would think, but like he's seems

1015
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920
petulant and he, you're kind. 
It's Lebron's team. 

1016
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,080
Even if you're Dan Hurley, it's 
still Lebron's team. 

1017
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:16,640
I'm not sure that's the best 
job. 

1018
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,960
And as, as you've seen in the 
NBA, the the job matters so much

1019
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,280
more than the coach. 
And there's very few coaches who

1020
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,560
I would say it really doesn't 
matter that, you know, the, the,

1021
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,760
the Warriors were there. 
It's like Steve Kerr steps into,

1022
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,920
I think Steve Kerr is a great 
coach, but it's also he had a 

1023
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,280
great opportunity that he 
stepped right into. 

1024
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:36,760
Anyway, we're off top. 
No, it's good. 

1025
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,000
Anyway, last thing we wanted to 
hit obviously in the NIL space 

1026
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,320
and kind of the changing 
financial landscape of things in

1027
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:44,960
college sports. 
We keep coming back to this 

1028
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,200
because there's always something
new to talk about with all of 

1029
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,520
this. 
But you know, I mean, Scott, the

1030
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,320
it's, it's an interesting 
different type of landscape now.

1031
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,400
And I touched on this a little 
bit in the last podcast about 

1032
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,120
where is the money coming from 
really? 

1033
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,240
You know, how does all this get 
paid for? 

1034
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,880
And the idea that now that, you 
know, college athletic 

1035
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,600
departments are allowed to 
directly pay NIL rather than 

1036
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,720
having to rely solely on donors.
This does not mean that donor 

1037
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,600
money is going away. 
And I think that to some degree,

1038
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,720
a lot of it is like donor money 
is always going to play a huge 

1039
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:27,960
role in college sports because 
it's it's kind of like it's the 

1040
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,760
same reason why the NFL doesn't 
develop its own minor league to 

1041
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,560
develop players. 
Why do something with my money 

1042
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,680
when you're going to do it with 
your money on my behalf? 

1043
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,920
And so that's kind of how I look
at things. 

1044
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,360
You know, in terms of the way 
that we think about donations, 

1045
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,120
people are, I think they 
underestimate the amount of 

1046
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,600
money that athletic departments 
getting donations on a yearly 

1047
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,080
basis or on an endowed basis 
when everything from 

1048
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,880
scholarships to, you know, 
facilities. 

1049
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:57,680
But now we're in this 
interesting thing where you're 

1050
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,120
going to have to write checks 
every year to a large number of 

1051
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,400
athletes. 
And if the money coming in off 

1052
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,960
the television revenue has to go
to the people that are earning 

1053
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,360
it, which is generally football 
players primarily, and then 

1054
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,320
basketball a little bit less so.
And then not a whole lot beyond 

1055
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,520
that. 
What do you do with that ratio 

1056
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,760
in that paradigm where it's like
you've got your huge donors who 

1057
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,760
are going to probably be the 
ones that come in and write the 

1058
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,040
check to get like a top recruit 
because that's going to take 

1059
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,600
something with six or seven 
figures. 

1060
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,600
But that's you can't just 
sustain off of those big 

1061
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,040
donations. 
You have to figure a way to 

1062
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:35,160
cultivate other things as well. 
So I will not get political, but

1063
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,720
I, I, I do see a real parallel, 
parallel between politics and, 

1064
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:41,800
you know, the issues with 
politics and the issues with 

1065
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,920
what college athletics is going 
to face here soon, which I'm 

1066
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,200
sure everybody loves because 
politics super fun right now. 

1067
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,720
Everyone's happy with everything
but not taking sides. 

1068
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:52,920
This is both Democrat and 
Republican side. 

1069
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,080
You know, both of those deal 
with an issue with the exact 

1070
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,520
same issue where in politics you
have, you know, a few number of 

1071
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:05,040
very high net worth donors who 
give a lot of money and they 

1072
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,720
want their candidates to push 
the agendas that they have set 

1073
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,040
forth. 
And so you have to court those 

1074
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,400
high dollar people. 
But there's also a grassroots, 

1075
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,480
you also need a, a lot of small 
people giving 5 or $10 a month 

1076
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,680
to kind of keep that base going.
Because, you know, the people 

1077
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,880
who have the 2-3 in politics, 
sometimes a billion dollars of 

1078
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,520
checks, they're petulant and 
they sometimes want to do 

1079
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,720
different things. 
Sometimes they'll leave. 

1080
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,000
And you need, you can't just be 
courting three people. 

1081
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,720
You have to court a lot. 
But it's, it's a tough balance. 

1082
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,400
And you look at, you know, where
IU is. 

1083
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,040
I think that, you know, any 
college, it's not just IUI use 

1084
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,280
the one that I know. 
You know, I thought for a couple

1085
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,920
years now, it's like the Varsity
Club is in an interesting spot 

1086
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,880
because, you know, they need me 
to continue to be a Varsity Club

1087
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,240
member because the IU Varsity 
Club needs money to keep things 

1088
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:55,840
going, but they also need people
to donate to NIL. 

1089
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,800
And so you said this in the last
pod that, you know, I think it 

1090
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,400
was like Wisconsin or somebody 
like looking to like merge those

1091
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,920
two where basically you give it 
to IU and they dish it out. 

1092
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,080
That probably makes the most 
sense because it's tough for IU.

1093
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,720
You know, it's tough for Dolson 
to tell not he wouldn't tell me 

1094
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:11,120
personally. 
Like have varsity club. 

1095
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,000
Hey, Scott, we need you to 
continue at the varsity club 

1096
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,160
level at this level. 
Oh, by the way, Tobias Center is

1097
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,960
going to cost 500A head. 
And oh, by the way, we'd love 

1098
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,360
for you. 
It's not an and or it's A and 

1099
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,960
give to the NIL collective, you 
know, because the Varsity Club 

1100
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,640
has the ability to provide 
things to me, you know, they can

1101
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,080
give me points that they can add
up. 

1102
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,560
They can give me tickets. 
You know, this is where I find 

1103
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,360
NIL interesting is they they 
really don't have anything to 

1104
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:36,480
give. 
Like these collectives are 

1105
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,600
interesting. 
I've looked at some of them, you

1106
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,680
know, on kind of the quid pro 
quo because I can just give 

1107
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,400
money. 
I mean, you can just, I can 

1108
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,400
write a check for $10,000. 
Like, all right, I feel like I'm

1109
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,320
helping IU. 
But you know, at some point 

1110
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,960
people are going to want 
something back, whether it's a 

1111
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,520
commemorative coin or just you 
want something back. 

1112
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,760
Like I want a meet and greet 
with the players or I just want 

1113
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,920
something like, because I'm just
tired of pumping money and 

1114
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,080
getting nothing in return 
because then then it's just like

1115
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,240
all I want at that point is just
straight wins and losses. 

1116
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,840
I'm not sure how NI LS are going
to do that. 

1117
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,200
But I, I do think this push and 
pull between big dollar and 

1118
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,840
small dollar is going to be 
interesting because I think you 

1119
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,320
see some of this now with what 
might be happening with the fan 

1120
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,000
base in Woodson is it does feel 
like at the end of last year, 

1121
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,840
things were a little dicey with 
the fan base. 

1122
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,480
And I would say that was 
probably most of the five or $10

1123
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,600
donation type. 
People seemed a little bit 

1124
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,320
nervous about what was going on 
and it did seem like Woodson got

1125
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,280
and this is all just rumor. 
The way that I interpret it did 

1126
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,320
seem like a couple of the high 
dollar people came in and was 

1127
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,480
like, no, this is not the way 
it's going to go where you know 

1128
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:41,440
Woodson is going to be good. 
And they they spent a lot of 

1129
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,560
money this offseason on a lot of
players, which is great. 

1130
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,000
And I hope you know, gets to a 
lot of wins. 

1131
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,280
But it does feel like right now 
we're at a point where you have 

1132
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,640
a couple high dollar people who 
are like, Nope, this is the way 

1133
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,200
that the staff is going to be 
and we're going to pump money 

1134
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,240
into it. 
Some of the low dollar people 

1135
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,240
are a little bit concerned. 
And if you have a season or two 

1136
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:01,560
where results don't continue to 
go well, like how is that that 

1137
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,000
push and pull going to play out 
anyway? 

1138
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,000
I just, I find it, I don't know 
that's a a long way to not even 

1139
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,920
answer a question or provide 
another question for you. 

1140
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:12,640
It's it's interesting. 
I mean, this is where I, the 

1141
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,640
traditional model that IU has 
used, and I'm sure it's the same

1142
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:20,360
in most other schools, but your 
donations are tied to your 

1143
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,520
priority points, which are tied 
to where you get seats in 

1144
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,840
Assembly Hall. 
And you know, that's always been

1145
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,320
the great equalizer in terms of,
well, yeah, that's fine. 

1146
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,520
You can complain about XY or Z, 
but you, you know, what are you 

1147
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:34,600
going to do, pull your money 
out? 

1148
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,040
Well, then you lose. 
Not only do you lose the 

1149
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,080
priority points you'd be 
earning, but if you're like 

1150
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,360
going to try to protest for a 
year, you lose everything years 

1151
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,960
worth of points. 
You know, So it, it is, it is 

1152
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,960
very much like one of those 
situations. 

1153
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,960
It's like a student loan where 
you know, you might be paying, 

1154
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,560
you might think you're paying it
off, but all you're paying is a 

1155
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,400
percentage of the interest. 
And you know, after a while 

1156
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,280
you're like, wait, I've been 
paying this $50,000 student loan

1157
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,600
for 10 years and now it's 
$150,000. 

1158
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,240
What's going on? 
It's really hard to dig out of 

1159
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:09,720
it. 
And look, ultimately, even the 

1160
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:14,400
high level donors aren't going 
to suddenly walk away because 

1161
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,040
they know that people are going 
to step in and and be willing to

1162
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,880
replace them is necessary. 
And this is so I'm less 

1163
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,920
interested with basketball 
because to some degree people 

1164
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,960
can complain loudly about what 
they don't like about 

1165
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,760
basketball, regardless of what 
coach it is. 

1166
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,040
And sometimes things will change
and sometimes things won't. 

1167
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,440
Very rarely will it be, well, 
we're not going to donate unless

1168
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,800
you do XY or Z because it's just
not a reasonable threat. 

1169
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:42,440
But with other sports, it is an 
interesting thing to think about

1170
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:47,960
in as much as here you have a 
lot of these the the more niche 

1171
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,400
sports or the non revenue 
generating sports. 

1172
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,640
So let's take football and 
basketball, or at least men's 

1173
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,160
basketball, take them out of the
equation. 

1174
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,520
And this is kind of what I was 
trying to get out on the 

1175
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,840
previous podcast. 
You have to be able to cultivate

1176
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:06,360
small motivated groups of people
who tend to want to donate 

1177
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,000
specifically for sports. 
Because a lot of the, you know, 

1178
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,960
when people think I'm going to 
donate, they're going to donate 

1179
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,640
to like the general scholarship 
fund for the athletic department

1180
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,080
or whatever. 
They may not have thought up to 

1181
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,920
this point, I'm going to donate 
to volleyball or I'm going to 

1182
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,640
donate to men's soccer. 
But that's almost what you're 

1183
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,680
going to have to do. 
And it, and to go back to what 

1184
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:26,720
you said, not only do you need 
that kind of an approach, but 

1185
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,160
you also need to have something 
that you're getting. 

1186
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,360
If you're a donor, you need to 
be able to have an event where 

1187
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,480
you can go meet the players and 
interact with them. 

1188
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:38,760
Or you need to have something 
where you can interact with the 

1189
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,160
coaching staff or you're, you 
know, there's an event out at a 

1190
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,360
restaurant and it's like a fun 
kind of thing. 

1191
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,000
And this is, you know, it's 
really where you have to use the

1192
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,120
marketing ability and the 
marketing power of the players 

1193
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,920
and the coaches that you've got.
It has to be dynamic. 

1194
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,920
It can't just be we need money. 
Give us money because that, as 

1195
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,760
we know in every aspect of 
business, doesn't get you very 

1196
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,800
far. 
You might have an affinity for a

1197
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,320
brand or a team. 
That does not mean you're going 

1198
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,640
to take money out of your bank 
account and give it to that 

1199
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,560
team. 
You know, there's got to be 

1200
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,920
something else. 
And this is where for, you know,

1201
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,160
I've heard so much now, 
originally the idea was, or the,

1202
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,520
the thought was that colleges 
and universities are just going 

1203
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,280
to cut sports left and right to 
try to get, you know, their 

1204
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,160
numbers down so that they could 
afford all the NIL money. 

1205
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,480
A lot of them said, we really 
don't want to do that. 

1206
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,200
And I think there's, there's a 
lot of arguments why you 

1207
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,440
shouldn't do that. 
But that really is going to mean

1208
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,960
that a lot of these programs are
going to essentially be forced 

1209
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,160
to eat what they kill in order 
to keep their programs going. 

1210
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,320
And I there's so little 
infrastructure set up around 

1211
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,680
these these programs, not just 
at IU, but everywhere to be able

1212
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,440
to do that. 
It's going to be really 

1213
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,680
fascinating to see, you know, 
like something like a Hoosiers 

1214
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,960
Connect or an official NIL 
collective somewhere else. 

1215
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,960
I mean, they got their hands 
full trying to raise enough 

1216
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,280
money to pay for the what 
they've already got in their 

1217
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,520
stable, let alone adding a bunch
of other stuff. 

1218
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,960
So I'm really curious to see how
athletic departments manage that

1219
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,000
because most of the fundraising 
for athletic departments has 

1220
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,160
been in a very traditional 
manner and you're talking about 

1221
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:14,440
very non traditional manners of 
fundraising in this new reality.

1222
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,880
I completely agree, you know, 
but it also means this is like 

1223
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,200
this is changing landscape. 
But you know, what's weird about

1224
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,000
this isn't a business. 
You know, one of my favorite 

1225
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,040
business stories when people 
talk about this stuff, at least 

1226
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,800
in the, you know, capitalistic 
world is there used to be a huge

1227
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,080
industry in in the North and the
north Midwest of people cutting 

1228
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,000
ice and shipping ice around the 
country. 

1229
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,880
And, you know, thousands of 
people worked in the ice 

1230
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,360
industry. 
Refrigerators came out and that 

1231
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,120
changed. 
Now those people got different 

1232
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,720
jobs. 
They got and, you know, but the 

1233
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,000
company that made ice went out 
of business because that was no 

1234
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,840
longer a business that was 
sustainable. 

1235
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,640
What's weird here is. 
For those people who think 

1236
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:59,320
Scott's over over exaggerating 
this, there's an estimated 

1237
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,800
90,000 people that worked in the
ICE trade. 

1238
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:03,520
Thank you. 
So there you go. 

1239
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,080
Just wanted to it was a sizable 
number of people, OK, major in 

1240
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:08,920
history, just in the United 
States. 

1241
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,600
And that was, there was a, it 
was an industry that capitalized

1242
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,840
at a, a moderate amount of 
money, around $700 million a 

1243
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,320
year. 
So not an insignificant amount 

1244
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:18,160
of money. 
Sorry, go ahead. 

1245
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,480
U.S. history degree here from 
the great University of Indiana 

1246
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,160
University. 
They did the University of 

1247
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:28,040
Indiana University. 
It was a speech degree, wasn't a

1248
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,440
speech degree. 
I wish I would have taken your 

1249
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,080
class now. 
No, but you know what's what's 

1250
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,040
weird about and you can do the 
same thing with like, you know, 

1251
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,840
horse and buggy. 
There was an entire industry 

1252
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:42,120
around caring for horses to to 
get you around the Model T 

1253
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,560
change all of that and 
automobiles change that 

1254
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,600
industry. 
Strange is not a lesson here on 

1255
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,320
capitalism. 
What is interesting here is 

1256
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,800
normally in that there in in 
that seismic shift moment, 

1257
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,480
businesses go out of business. 
New businesses come up that, you

1258
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,600
know, you, you can change the 
workforce. 

1259
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,240
All these changes need to 
happen. 

1260
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,920
But it's like the businesses, if
you think of the colleges as the

1261
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,040
businesses, none of them are 
going out of business. 

1262
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:09,320
Like, you know, IU, Purdue, Penn
State, Michigan, you know, 

1263
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,640
Alabama, name your school, 
They're all going to stay here 

1264
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,120
and their varsity clubs are 
going to stay here. 

1265
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,080
But they've got to work through 
the seismic shift. 

1266
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,880
Like in a normal system, what 
you probably have is some 

1267
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,920
schools would Slough off. 
The ones that figure it out 

1268
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,120
would come and get better. 
That's not what's going to 

1269
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,680
happen here because the top two 
conferences are going to prop up

1270
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,840
all of their schools with TV 
money. 

1271
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,400
So it's going to be interesting 
to see how schools do this. 

1272
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,760
But I look at this, this is a 
complete shift in how they've 

1273
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,560
done things. 
You know, I was even talking to 

1274
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,120
somebody last week about IU 
football and they're like, you 

1275
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,640
know, we're talking about how 
they got to develop and they're 

1276
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,240
like, oh, but you know, the 
facilities, like they really got

1277
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,720
to work on facilities. 
And like, I again, I'm, I'm just

1278
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,920
a dude from the outside, but 
it's like, I think the, the days

1279
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,440
of spending millions on 
facilities is done because that 

1280
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,400
was an era when you had to spend
all the money you had coming in 

1281
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:54,840
and you had nothing to spend it 
on. 

1282
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,280
So we build these big teams, we 
build facilities and now it's 

1283
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:58,840
like, all right, well, the 
payers want money, but the 

1284
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,920
players want money and they care
probably less about a hot tub 

1285
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,160
and more about like, well, give 
me 220 grand and I'll buy my own

1286
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,600
hot tub. 
I, I, I think this is all going 

1287
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,640
to change and it's going to be 
interesting to see who, who can 

1288
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,880
figure it out and who can't. 
But no, I'm, I'm with you. 

1289
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,240
You know, it's almost like the 
varsity club needs to be more 

1290
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,680
hyper specific where, you know, 
I want to give to volleyball and

1291
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,240
football and basketball and I 
want money to go to those 

1292
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,200
schools. 
But the like the push and pulls,

1293
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,240
the varsity club still needs 
general fund money as well. 

1294
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:32,640
Like everybody has needs. 
They all need it and it all 

1295
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,040
comes down to they need a lot of
money from outside sources. 

1296
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,280
And you know, as you've 
mentioned on many of these 

1297
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,040
different pods, all of these 
athletic departments, you're 

1298
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,720
going to have to get used to, 
you know, not spending all of 

1299
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,880
their money every single year. 
You know, you're going to have 

1300
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,960
to either save some or 
reallocate or unfortunately, the

1301
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,920
huge Staffs that you've built up
over the last 30 years because 

1302
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,520
you weren't paying your players,
you might have to downsize those

1303
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:58,680
Staffs. 
And like, it sucks. 

1304
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,920
And, you know, people will re re
engineer other areas, but like 

1305
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,120
the reason they have these huge 
Staffs and facilities because 

1306
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,240
they weren't paying players. 
And yeah. 

1307
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,600
It's like, I mean, the last 
thing I'll say on this, this is 

1308
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,560
where I mean facilities. 
I agree and we've talked about 

1309
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,960
it on the show before. 
Probably not you just I mean, 

1310
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,000
you might you'll, you'll still 
get some new facilities built 

1311
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,000
out of a necessity, right? 
But you're not getting a new 

1312
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,920
field hockey facility built 
anytime soon with university 

1313
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,800
funds like those monies will 
just have to go elsewhere 

1314
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,480
probably just for towards travel
for field hockey if you're going

1315
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,720
to continue to do that. 
And I'm not trying to pick on 

1316
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,440
field like it's the first one 
that came to mind. 

1317
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,560
But the other area that I think 
is really going to take a step 

1318
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,480
back is compliance. 
All of these colleges and 

1319
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,600
universities that hired all of 
these compliance people. 

1320
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,800
And it's like, what are we 
complying with exactly at this 

1321
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,640
point? 
A rule book where 90% of it 

1322
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,840
really doesn't apply anymore. 
Like this is argument where 

1323
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,200
there's just a, you know, dust, 
dust flowing by like no one's 

1324
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:50,920
there. 
Yeah. 

1325
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,200
The compliance office becomes 
like the Maytag repair person of

1326
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,520
of the college sports landscape,
except there's ten of them in 

1327
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,080
every athletic department 
anyway. 

1328
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,720
All right, we're going to go 
ahead and wrap up. 

1329
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,960
We'll be back soon. 
I hope everybody has a safe 4th 

1330
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,960
of July. 
Just a reminder folks, leave the

1331
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:15,320
fireworks to the professionals 
and just we don't want any 

1332
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:20,520
Crimson cast members like coming
back from the 4th of July break 

1333
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,560
without the same. 
Number of fingers, you start 

1334
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,200
with 10 digits, you end with 10 
digits. 

1335
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,400
I mean, this is this is old guy 
talk. 

1336
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,440
It's like you like I did my dumb
stuff in my 20s and and teens 

1337
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,640
with fireworks, No. 
I mean, do what you want, but 

1338
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:34,600
just be careful. 
Yeah. 

1339
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,640
Yeah, be careful. 
Just that's all. 

1340
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:38,400
We're just these are, are real. 
Like just be. 

1341
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,480
I'm not your dad. 
I'm just saying be careful. 

1342
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,920
That's that's all I'm saying. 
Yeah. 

1343
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,040
Anyway, All right. 
Well, as always, a pleasure, 

1344
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,360
Scott. 
Great to talk to you again and 

1345
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,200
great to talk with you folks as 
well. 

1346
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,720
We'll be back soon with more 
Crimson CAST. 

1347
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:55,520
If you've got comments or 
questions, you can always hit us

1348
01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:00,000
up on the Back home Network 
Discord or on Twitter at Crimson

1349
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,240
Cast for Scott, I'm Galen. 
This has been Crimson cast. 

1350
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,400
We'll catch you folks. 
On the flip side, bring back the

1351
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,200
bison. 
That's all, everybody.