1 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:09,720 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:21,640 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,160 Galen Clavio. Here it is Wednesday, October 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,040 18th. Good to have you joining us once 5 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,850 again, a little midweek episode. God, there's so much going on 6 00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:34,050 with IU athletics and it's a really big weekend on A. 7 00:00:34,050 --> 00:00:35,650 Number of levels. So we're going to talk a little 8 00:00:35,650 --> 00:00:38,650 bit about that. But mostly this podcast tonight 9 00:00:38,810 --> 00:00:42,650 is AQ and a pod. I put the call out on the 10 00:00:42,650 --> 00:00:46,010 Twitter account and a couple of other places and we got some 11 00:00:46,010 --> 00:00:49,010 really good questions, some interesting questions, some 12 00:00:49,010 --> 00:00:52,390 questions that I think are intended to get me in trouble. 13 00:00:52,390 --> 00:00:55,550 In some way I'm, I'm kidding a little bit on that, but I know a 14 00:00:55,550 --> 00:00:58,270 lot of a lot of interesting questions and thoughts and I 15 00:00:58,270 --> 00:01:00,510 really appreciate everybody taking the time to write in and 16 00:01:00,510 --> 00:01:02,950 ask and so I'm going to try to answer as many of them as 17 00:01:02,950 --> 00:01:06,350 possible. I can't answer all of them, but 18 00:01:06,350 --> 00:01:09,150 I will try to get to as many as I can and then hopefully can get 19 00:01:09,150 --> 00:01:12,630 to a few others later on in future episodes. 20 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:15,590 But first of all, just a reminder folks that we are 21 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:18,710 actually on sub stack now on Crimson Cast if you haven't had 22 00:01:18,710 --> 00:01:21,260 a chance. Go ahead and subscribe to us. 23 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:26,860 Go to crimsoncast.substack.com and you can subscribe for free. 24 00:01:27,220 --> 00:01:32,460 You get every e-mail that we send out, has a podcast in it, 25 00:01:32,940 --> 00:01:37,260 and we send it right to you before we put it out on Twitter 26 00:01:37,260 --> 00:01:40,660 or Facebook or anywhere else. And so you can be up to speed on 27 00:01:40,660 --> 00:01:42,740 what's going on with the podcast. 28 00:01:42,740 --> 00:01:45,100 You can get episodes delivered right to you, which can make it 29 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,260 easier for you to know. We also put extra stuff in the 30 00:01:47,260 --> 00:01:48,420 sub stack. Emails. 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,360 We will put in links to interesting stories and we try 32 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,480 to put a few random thoughts now and then when it is warranted. 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,640 So subscribe for free and if you want to support the podcast 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,400 financially, that's the best way to do it. 35 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,080 The the podcast will always be emailed out for free, but we do 36 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,240 have a subscriber option on sub stack where you do get some 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,040 additional goodies. Some of our subscribers got a 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,960 special set of goodies in the mail and hopefully they're 39 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,000 enjoying those right now. Those will be revealed to the 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,440 broader audience next week. You can wear them. 41 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,800 So that's that's the the the, the key. 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,800 I guess that's the the little clue on things. 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,440 But anyway, crimsoncast.substack.com Go 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,400 ahead and subscribe for free and you can subscribe for pay if you 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,360 want to. It's $5 a month, $50 a year. 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:41,760 We'd love to have you in the community. 47 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,940 Also just a reminder that we are of course part of the back home 48 00:02:46,940 --> 00:02:49,740 network and the back home network is really gearing up 49 00:02:49,740 --> 00:02:51,620 here. It's it is back home network 50 00:02:51,620 --> 00:02:56,540 season across the board and you probably know this but if you 51 00:02:56,540 --> 00:02:58,940 don't it's obviously Hoosier hysteria which means our 52 00:02:58,940 --> 00:03:01,340 basketball podcast really kick up in earnest. 53 00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:06,380 Not just Crimson cast but also of course assembly call back in 54 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:08,860 action, do the work back in action. 55 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:12,060 We've got the Crimson cast women's basketball show, Amanda 56 00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:15,520 Foster back hosting that and we're pleased to announce that 57 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,480 we've got a Co host for that show, Kevin Vera, another very 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,680 talented individual going to be joining us as a Co host on the 59 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,200 women's basketball show. We have a couple of other folks 60 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,840 that will join throughout the course of the year, so be sure 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,720 to be following all of the back home network feeds. 62 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,880 And just a reminder that the entire back home network is 63 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,240 brought to you by home field apparel. 64 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,240 Your place to go for the finest in college fashions, the softest 65 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,230 fabrics, the coolest designs. We had one question. 66 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:46,310 I don't know if the question got deleted. 67 00:03:46,310 --> 00:03:49,910 I can't find who sent it. So I apologize to the person 68 00:03:49,910 --> 00:03:53,390 that sent this because I can't seem to locate who it was that 69 00:03:53,390 --> 00:03:56,390 sent it. But they asked me what is your 70 00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:58,310 favorite piece of home field apparel? 71 00:03:58,590 --> 00:04:02,870 It's a great question and my answer is not what you think it 72 00:04:02,870 --> 00:04:04,070 is. A lot of people think that my 73 00:04:04,070 --> 00:04:06,830 answer is the Bison Hoodie. I love the Bison Hoodie. 74 00:04:06,830 --> 00:04:11,270 The Bison Hoodie is great, but realistically my favorite piece 75 00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:16,070 of home field apparel by far is my IU script Oatmeal hoodie, 76 00:04:16,070 --> 00:04:18,790 which I'm actually wearing right now as I do this podcast. 77 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:22,630 Just one of the most comfortable things I've ever purchased in my 78 00:04:22,630 --> 00:04:25,150 life. I've been gently chided by the 79 00:04:25,150 --> 00:04:28,270 owner of home field because of how faded my oatmeal hoodie is 80 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:31,790 for wearing it in public. But I wear it out of love 81 00:04:31,790 --> 00:04:35,630 because it is so comfortable and it has been around for a while. 82 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:39,180 You know I I've, I've had it through the pandemic. 83 00:04:39,180 --> 00:04:41,420 I've had a pre Pandemic, I've run into football games, 84 00:04:41,420 --> 00:04:45,140 basketball games. I love all the stuff in the home 85 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:47,940 field apparel, IU collection. My second favorite piece of home 86 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:52,380 field apparel, by the way, is my Tulsa Baseball Three quarter. 87 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:56,260 Tee that that is just an absolutely awesome design as 88 00:04:56,260 --> 00:04:57,380 well. There's so many great things on 89 00:04:57,380 --> 00:05:00,020 the site. If you're in Bloomington, you 90 00:05:00,020 --> 00:05:05,540 need to come down to the Graduate Hotel on October 20th 91 00:05:06,090 --> 00:05:10,130 from 2:00 to 6:00 PM or October 21st from 7:00 to 12:00. 92 00:05:10,130 --> 00:05:14,210 So of course that's this Friday from 2:00 to 6:00 or this 93 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:17,410 Saturday from 7:00 to noon leading into the football game. 94 00:05:17,690 --> 00:05:22,050 Home field will be there. They've got a pop up shop and 95 00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:25,970 you can go purchase home field apparel in person. 96 00:05:26,290 --> 00:05:28,770 If you are a student, you get 50. 97 00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:31,810 Percent off all home field apparel for the first hour. 98 00:05:31,810 --> 00:05:34,850 If you have a valid IU student ID, that's a huge deal. 99 00:05:34,850 --> 00:05:39,220 That's incredible. You get 10% off your next stay 100 00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:42,940 at graduate hotels if you use the code home field. 101 00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:47,460 These are, I mean these are some some great deals all the way 102 00:05:47,460 --> 00:05:49,260 around that we want you to take advantage of. 103 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:55,620 And just a reminder folks that at any point if you would like 104 00:05:55,620 --> 00:05:58,580 to make your first purchase at Home field apparel, you use the 105 00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:02,440 code HOME 23 and you get 15% off your first order. 106 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,720 So home field apparel, Trying to put merch in your hands? 107 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,840 Go down to The Graduate here in Bloomington on Friday or on 108 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:10,840 Saturday. Take advantage of the pop up 109 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:12,640 shop and if you're a student, obviously. 110 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,600 You're going to have the opportunity to save 50%, which 111 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,840 is incredible. So anyway, we're going to go and 112 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:22,000 dive into things here. Lot of different questions. 113 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,560 I'm not going to start with football. 114 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,680 I had a lot of football questions. 115 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,940 I'm actually going to start with some basketball questions and 116 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:32,740 some other sport questions and then we will lead into football 117 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:35,740 because we've talked a lot about football over the course of the 118 00:06:35,740 --> 00:06:37,020 last month. I need a little bit of a 119 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:39,500 breather, but we will get to the football questions in a minute, 120 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:43,660 so stay tuned on those. So first question, Royville, 121 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:48,260 Ballers, ladies basketball, women's basketball, Better that 122 00:06:48,260 --> 00:06:50,460 was reading the tweet, better than last season. 123 00:06:50,860 --> 00:06:52,900 Underrated and hungry question mark. 124 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:55,020 Well, I don't know if they're underrated. 125 00:06:55,020 --> 00:06:57,100 I mean, they're ranked 9th in the country, which is pretty 126 00:06:57,100 --> 00:07:00,320 good. You know, is are they going to 127 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,560 be better than last year in the regular season? 128 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,880 No. And in fact, I would not be 129 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,760 surprised if the women's team was slightly not as good as they 130 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,600 were last year because last year was an incredible year for 131 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,560 women's basketball here at IUI. Mean, you know, probably, I 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,720 think without question in terms of regular season, the greatest 133 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,830 season that IU has ever had, you know you you lose Grace Burger 134 00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:30,070 off the roster, that's a huge loss. 135 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:33,750 I mean that's a that is a generational player for IU 136 00:07:33,750 --> 00:07:37,710 women's basketball that is just not here anymore. 137 00:07:37,710 --> 00:07:40,750 I mean playing in the WNBA and playing overseas, I mean 28 and 138 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:44,550 four overall, 16 and two in the conference Big 10 champs. 139 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:48,030 You know, you look at what they did throughout the course of 140 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:52,550 last season, I mean the amount of games this team won 141 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,000 impressively, winning at home versus Iowa, obviously, you 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,560 know, winning at home versus Ohio State by 13, winning versus 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,840 Michigan, winning versus a ranked Illinois team, winning 144 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,880 versus a top 10 Maryland team. I mean, they played out of their 145 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,040 minds last year, almost the entire season. 146 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,520 And you think about it, that team only lost four games the 147 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,320 entire year. And of those four games, you 148 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,820 know, one of them obviously was that, you know, relatively 149 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:26,860 unfortunate game up in Michigan State where you know they were, 150 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:30,940 they were still dealing with injury and and people coming 151 00:08:30,940 --> 00:08:34,380 back. One of them was that game at the 152 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:37,380 end of the season at Iowa where Kaitlyn Clark hit that 153 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:40,460 ridiculous shot where they would lose by one. 154 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:44,580 One was that unfortunate game up in Minneapolis where they lose 155 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:46,780 to Ohio State. But Ohio State's a really good 156 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:48,860 team. Obviously they come into the 157 00:08:48,860 --> 00:08:51,100 season as one of the top rack teams of the countries and then 158 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:54,110 of course they lose that game against Miami in the NCAA 159 00:08:54,110 --> 00:08:57,550 tournament. Here's what I would expect with 160 00:08:57,550 --> 00:09:00,150 this women's basketball team. I mean, they still have such 161 00:09:00,270 --> 00:09:02,670 amazing talent coming back from last year. 162 00:09:02,670 --> 00:09:05,150 You've got Mackenzie Holmes back, you've got Sydney Parrish 163 00:09:05,150 --> 00:09:08,590 back, you've got Chloe Moore McNeil back, You've got Sarah 164 00:09:08,590 --> 00:09:10,630 Scalia back, you've got Yard and Garzone. 165 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:14,630 I mean just that right there that that that is one of the 166 00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:18,490 best returning starting fives that you can have in college 167 00:09:18,490 --> 00:09:21,090 basketball right now. And then you add some really 168 00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,250 intriguing pieces across the board. 169 00:09:24,010 --> 00:09:27,850 But I also think it's going to be really hard for IU to 170 00:09:28,090 --> 00:09:32,090 maintain the level of success that they established last year 171 00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:36,690 in the regular season, the Big 10 arguably even stronger than 172 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:39,410 it was. And you know, you've obviously 173 00:09:39,410 --> 00:09:42,250 got Caitlin Clark back at Iowa. Iowa will look a little 174 00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:44,570 different this year as they've lost some key pieces. 175 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:46,730 Ohio State is really highly ranked. 176 00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:49,530 You know, you're going to have some really tough competition. 177 00:09:49,530 --> 00:09:53,650 And I think unlike last year, the target is 100% on Indiana's 178 00:09:53,650 --> 00:09:55,290 back. Everybody is going to be gunning 179 00:09:55,290 --> 00:09:58,290 for them and it's hard to win as many games. 180 00:09:58,690 --> 00:10:01,770 But I think if Indiana were to lose, you know, 6-7 games in the 181 00:10:01,770 --> 00:10:03,730 regular season, that's not the end of the world. 182 00:10:03,970 --> 00:10:06,130 It's not a sign even that the program's gotten worse. 183 00:10:06,130 --> 00:10:09,740 It's that Indiana had a lot of games last year where things 184 00:10:09,740 --> 00:10:12,940 went their way and that won't always happen. 185 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:16,660 But I do think that where this team will be better is in the 186 00:10:16,660 --> 00:10:20,020 postseason. I think that the loss to Miami, 187 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,460 I wasn't shocked when that happened because a lot of times 188 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:26,300 teams that have that level of success through the regular 189 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:28,860 season and you know, they enter as a one seed. 190 00:10:29,380 --> 00:10:34,310 You know, if they haven't had consistent success, and even 191 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:36,790 though Indiana went to the Elite 8A couple of years ago, you know 192 00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:41,070 it's we're still looking at a program that is becoming a major 193 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:45,670 player in college basketball. You know, you you you you lose 194 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:48,950 in the Elite Eight, you lose a Sweet 16 game on the road. 195 00:10:48,950 --> 00:10:52,870 But keep in mind, I mean Indiana only beat Princeton in the 2022 196 00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:55,990 season at home by one point. You know, Indiana is still 197 00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:59,830 learning how to be a dominant team in the post season. 198 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:02,870 I do think that the lessons that they learned out of that Miami 199 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:04,710 game last year are going to really help. 200 00:11:04,710 --> 00:11:06,110 Them as they go through this season. 201 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:08,710 So I think this team's going to be really good. 202 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:09,870 They're going to be fun to watch. 203 00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:12,070 They're going to be a team that everybody wants to keep an eye 204 00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:13,750 on. And I'm looking forward to 205 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:15,750 seeing what they do. And I think they probably won't 206 00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:18,590 win the Big 10 this year, but I think they have a real chance at 207 00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:22,190 going farther in the NCAA tournament than they did last 208 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:24,990 year. We had a couple of questions 209 00:11:24,990 --> 00:11:28,110 about soccer. Matt Zimmerman asks what's up 210 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:30,900 with men's soccer this year? We had another question 211 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:34,500 regarding soccer. You know, basically this is from 212 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:37,940 Tyler Hellman men's soccer to the top of the table in the 213 00:11:37,940 --> 00:11:40,060 College Cup. And that was actually Tyler 214 00:11:40,060 --> 00:11:43,060 Hellman who asked about my favorite home field apparel 215 00:11:43,060 --> 00:11:43,940 piece. So there you go. 216 00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:48,860 But to answer Matt's question about what's up with soccer, 217 00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:50,980 I've gotten this a lot. You know, the men's soccer 218 00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:53,900 started the season ranked pretty high. 219 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:58,680 I mean, I think they were second in the country and they lost a 220 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,720 couple of games early and I think a lot of people just kind 221 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,480 of looked at that and said, oh, this team is in trouble. 222 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,800 Well, this team is 6, three and four right now. 223 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,720 They've only lost three games on the season. 224 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,160 They're two, one and two in conference play. 225 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,200 They're on a three-game winning streak and it feels like they've 226 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,640 picked it back up again. And you know, with men's soccer, 227 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,680 you know, I think it's important to remember, first of all, you 228 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,880 know, they they lose to Washington in a game that really 229 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,360 they should have won. They scored a goal that was 230 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:31,500 disallowed and then Washington scored late and that was just a 231 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:33,540 kind of an unfortunate game for them. 232 00:12:33,780 --> 00:12:36,220 They go down to Tampa and play South Florida. 233 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:39,540 That game was a little hard to explain just in terms of the 234 00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:41,580 struggles that they had. And then of course they lose up 235 00:12:41,580 --> 00:12:43,380 at Michigan State, which is not a bad loss. 236 00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:46,460 Michigan State's a really good team right now, but since that, 237 00:12:46,460 --> 00:12:49,100 Michigan State lost, They drew against Michigan, they drew 238 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:51,700 against Kentucky, they beat Penn State on the road, they beat 239 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,060 Evansville, and then they beat Ohio State. 240 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,900 They take on a Maryland team who's normally really good this 241 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:02,380 Friday, and Maryland's really having a rough year, you know, 242 00:13:02,380 --> 00:13:04,700 so. If they win that game, they get 243 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:06,300 Northwestern on the road in Evanston. 244 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:09,740 And Northwestern is a team that has been one of the best in the 245 00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:10,780 conference. But. 246 00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:13,810 That's a team Indiana has proven they can beat over time. 247 00:13:13,810 --> 00:13:16,890 And then they get Rutgers, who of course beat them in the Big 248 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:20,570 10 championship game last year at home on senior night. 249 00:13:20,810 --> 00:13:24,090 I think men's soccer is fine. They are a little bit behind the 250 00:13:24,090 --> 00:13:29,970 8 ball right now in that their RPI is too low at the moment to 251 00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:32,170 guarantee that they would get into the NCAA tournament. 252 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:35,330 So they're going to have to win these next couple of games. 253 00:13:35,330 --> 00:13:38,140 They need to beat Maryland. And that won't help their RPI. 254 00:13:38,140 --> 00:13:39,740 Huge amount. They need to beat Northwestern, 255 00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:41,540 probably, or at least draw Northwestern. 256 00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:43,540 And then they need to win the final two games, and they 257 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:46,780 probably need to win at least a couple of games in the Big 10 258 00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:49,420 tournament. But look, I at this point, I 259 00:13:49,420 --> 00:13:51,140 think this team is going to be just fine. 260 00:13:51,140 --> 00:13:53,940 I think they're going to end up with maybe 10 regular season 261 00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:57,220 wins, 9 or 10. This is one of those teams that 262 00:13:57,220 --> 00:14:00,340 kind of reminds me of. I think it was the 2016 team 263 00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:04,340 that just had trouble scoring. And the nice thing, and the nice 264 00:14:04,340 --> 00:14:06,740 difference I guess, between this team and that team is that team 265 00:14:06,740 --> 00:14:09,260 never really figured it out. This team feels like it has 266 00:14:09,260 --> 00:14:13,020 learned how to score again, as in the last three games they've 267 00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:16,900 scored two goals in each of them, Penn State, Evansville and 268 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:18,620 Ohio State. The offense is humming. 269 00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:22,300 They were able to, you know, they they gave up a goal and it 270 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:24,420 looked like I was going to head for a draw against Ohio State. 271 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:27,580 They ended up picking up the goal and picking up the victory. 272 00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:29,810 I think that ultimately they're going to be fine. 273 00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:33,090 Keep in mind this team last year was not expected to get to the 274 00:14:33,090 --> 00:14:35,970 College Cup and they made it all the way to the final, made it 275 00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:40,330 into, you know, overtime, shootout and that team felt 276 00:14:40,330 --> 00:14:41,970 ahead of schedule when doing that. 277 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:47,050 This year's team, I think to some degree time caught up with 278 00:14:47,050 --> 00:14:49,050 them a little bit, but they've gotten their feet back under 279 00:14:49,050 --> 00:14:51,930 them and I think if they can piece together enough wins where 280 00:14:51,930 --> 00:14:54,370 they're in the NCAA tournament, even as an at large. 281 00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:56,630 They're going to be really, really dangerous in the 282 00:14:56,630 --> 00:14:59,510 tournament because Todd Yagley, I think has demonstrated he 283 00:14:59,510 --> 00:15:03,430 knows how to get a team through the NCAA tournament and get them 284 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:05,270 to the College Cup. That's that's pretty much the 285 00:15:05,270 --> 00:15:08,070 pedigree of this program. So I I think they're going to be 286 00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:11,070 fine. We had a lot of basketball 287 00:15:11,070 --> 00:15:13,350 questions. We're going to switch over to 288 00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:17,310 that and I promise we'll get to football here in a in a minute. 289 00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:24,080 We had a question regarding. From this was regarding 290 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,840 recruiting from Corey Stroud, a lot of people have criticized 291 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,640 past coaches in IU basketball for being unable to recruit top 292 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,120 talent. Do you think that is fair being 293 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,840 that NIL is available now that Woodson is head coach, do you 294 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,240 think that Woodson would be able to land top talent without NIL? 295 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,120 OK that's an interesting set of questions. 296 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,540 I I feel like there is a. Recruiting is such a fascinating 297 00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:55,220 game at a place like Indiana because for a long time Indiana, 298 00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,340 you know, prided itself on. You know, we follow the rules. 299 00:15:58,340 --> 00:16:01,780 We, we, we, you know, we don't do recruiting inducements. 300 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:05,660 And you know, however much that was true, they were clearly 301 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:10,420 behind the Kentucky's, the Kansas's, the Louisville's, you 302 00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:13,340 know, while they were up and running the Dukes, the North 303 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:16,180 Carolinas, in terms of the extra financial inducements. 304 00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:19,360 But I think that. Far more critical to the core of 305 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,160 things for IU is that I just think they had a series of 306 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:29,240 coaches that were not as good at recruiting as they needed to be 307 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,080 at a place like Indiana. And I think that goes all the 308 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,240 way back to Mike Davis. I mean, as much as Mike Davis 309 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,480 got lauded as the guy who landed Jared Jeffries alongside Bob 310 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,080 Knight, you know, the guy who landed, you know, a lot of the 311 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,480 core of that team that made it to the title game in 2002. 312 00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:49,780 You know, as much as people want to give Mike Davis credit for 313 00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:52,580 that, the reality is those players came not. 314 00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:54,500 You know, they came partially because of Mike Davis, but they 315 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:56,020 mostly came because of Bob Knight. 316 00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:59,180 And the proof of that is if you look at the players that Davis 317 00:16:59,180 --> 00:17:03,460 recruited afterwards, there were some good individual players who 318 00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:07,819 didn't necessarily mesh into good college team players. 319 00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:11,500 You know, Bracy, Wright, Marshall, Strickland, you know 320 00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:14,099 players like that who clearly were talented. 321 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:18,670 But. The type of player class after 322 00:17:18,670 --> 00:17:20,710 class that you needed to be successful. 323 00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:24,790 Davis just wasn't able to bring in and and even you know the 324 00:17:24,790 --> 00:17:27,630 players he was able to bring in a lot of times there was, there 325 00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:30,310 was a a relational reason why he was able to bring them in. 326 00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:33,350 DJ White, Robert Vaden, so on and so forth. 327 00:17:33,670 --> 00:17:37,230 I think, you know, Samson was kind of an anomaly. 328 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:40,630 You can look at the the extra text messages and say, oh, you 329 00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:42,630 know, Samson cheated to get better players. 330 00:17:42,910 --> 00:17:47,030 I think that that's. A flawed way of thinking. 331 00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:50,350 I think that I don't know that Sampson needed all of that extra 332 00:17:50,670 --> 00:17:53,790 stuff that ended up getting him fired in order to land really 333 00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:56,630 good players. And then you look at the, you 334 00:17:56,630 --> 00:18:03,070 know, Crean and Miller, and I think clearly Tom Crean landed a 335 00:18:03,070 --> 00:18:05,590 couple of big fish. You know, whether it was Zeller 336 00:18:06,110 --> 00:18:09,470 or whether, you know, you want to look at Jordan Halls, who was 337 00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:10,990 obviously in Indiana, Mr. Basketball. 338 00:18:10,990 --> 00:18:14,230 You look at Noah Vonleigh, you look at Thomas Bryant, but. 339 00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:18,490 Where Crane was at his best was often times in finding the 340 00:18:18,490 --> 00:18:21,690 diamonds in the rough, whether that was a, you know, the OG and 341 00:18:21,690 --> 00:18:26,530 Anobi, Victor Oladipo, will she he where he was at his best. 342 00:18:26,530 --> 00:18:29,730 He would find guys that he could develop into, players that could 343 00:18:29,730 --> 00:18:33,490 become significantly better than they had been before he got his 344 00:18:33,490 --> 00:18:35,370 hands on them. But it was an inconsistent way 345 00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:40,250 of approaching it, and I think Crane to some degree due to a 346 00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:42,810 variety of factors that are outside the scope of this 347 00:18:42,810 --> 00:18:45,760 podcast. He kind of chopped his own knees 348 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,600 off a bit in terms of the talent that he was able to bring in and 349 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,240 he relied almost too much on bringing in, you know, 350 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,760 unheralded 3 star types and trying to get them coached up to 351 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,320 a point where they could be successful. 352 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,960 Or he'd bring in four stars that were kind of they were there and 353 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,480 available for a reason. They weren't necessarily guys 354 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,720 that you could use as a platform to 100%, you know, get go 355 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,880 through the tournament from an athleticism perspective. 356 00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:17,250 And then Archie Miller. I mean, yeah, he landed Romeo 357 00:19:17,250 --> 00:19:22,570 Langford, but I think Miller's big downfall was that he didn't 358 00:19:22,570 --> 00:19:25,210 really have a great eye for the level of talent that you needed 359 00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:28,650 to be successful here. And I think Woodson does, You 360 00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:32,370 know, in an era where there wasn't NILI think Indiana had 361 00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:37,250 gotten to a point where on the national stage because paying 362 00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:40,730 players to come play was not fully in the culture. 363 00:19:40,730 --> 00:19:42,410 And I'm not saying Indiana was completely. 364 00:19:42,810 --> 00:19:46,370 You know, free of having done that, but certainly it wasn't as 365 00:19:46,370 --> 00:19:50,130 a cultured as what you saw at Kansas or at Duke or other 366 00:19:50,130 --> 00:19:51,970 places. But now that the shackles are 367 00:19:51,970 --> 00:19:56,330 off, I think Woodson's ability to recruit in this era is 368 00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:59,650 actually a lot better and certainly punches above the 369 00:19:59,650 --> 00:20:01,930 weight of what Indiana has done the last 20 years. 370 00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:05,410 But is about where Indiana should be if it is indeed as it 371 00:20:05,410 --> 00:20:09,010 advertises itself, which is as a blue blood as a as a top tier 372 00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:12,550 program, so. You know, would Woodson have 373 00:20:12,550 --> 00:20:14,750 found a way without that? I think he would have gotten a 374 00:20:14,750 --> 00:20:17,870 higher caliber overall of player than what we saw out of the 375 00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:19,670 previous two coaches consistently. 376 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:23,510 But I think his ability to land some big fish is going to be 377 00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:27,270 really huge for Indiana. And I think if the jury frankly 378 00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:30,390 is still out on, you know, how do his second tier. 379 00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:32,190 Level recruits? Really develop. 380 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:35,830 I mean we saw some flashes from Caleb Banks last year. 381 00:20:35,870 --> 00:20:39,370 Is Caleb Banks going to end up being a guy that can be a solid 382 00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:41,650 contributor in years 2-3 and four? 383 00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:43,490 I think that we still have to wait and see. 384 00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:48,890 You know, Tamar Bates didn't quite work out, you know, so 385 00:20:48,890 --> 00:20:51,170 it's hard to say exactly what, what to take out of that. 386 00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:53,570 CJ Gunn didn't have a great freshman year. 387 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:56,690 How does he develop? So I think in terms of top level 388 00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:59,970 talent, Woodson's at a higher level than the previous two 389 00:20:59,970 --> 00:21:02,690 coaches. Certainly as far as how that 390 00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:06,290 relates to an entire roster that I think we're still. 391 00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:09,170 Waiting to see and that's where I'm going to be really curious 392 00:21:09,170 --> 00:21:13,170 to see what happens. Couple other questions here on 393 00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:16,330 the basketball front that I think we're we're worth talking 394 00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:21,280 about Robbie Malcolmson asked to what degree could multiple out 395 00:21:21,277 --> 00:21:31,370 of I I think the problem for Indiana to a large degree is 396 00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:36,090 that their men's basketball program kind of became satisfied 397 00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:41,090 with being a regional brand. The coaching staff, you know for 398 00:21:41,090 --> 00:21:43,210 a variety of reasons and it's different for every coach and 399 00:21:43,210 --> 00:21:46,810 and this is where trying to talk about the over overarching arc 400 00:21:47,170 --> 00:21:50,970 of IU basketball versus what the Green era was versus what the 401 00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:53,090 Miller era was. There were some legitimate 402 00:21:53,090 --> 00:21:54,850 differences and how those things were managed. 403 00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:57,770 But over the course of a long period of time, and really this 404 00:21:57,770 --> 00:22:02,130 goes all the way back to the mid 1990s, IU kind of became 405 00:22:02,130 --> 00:22:08,860 satisfied internally with not being at the very forefront of 406 00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:13,420 college basketball, and it allowed schools like Michigan 407 00:22:13,420 --> 00:22:16,820 State and Villanova to to take that place. 408 00:22:16,820 --> 00:22:19,660 I think you can make an argument like Alabama's put themselves up 409 00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:22,620 in that stratosphere. Texas has tried to put 410 00:22:22,620 --> 00:22:24,580 themselves into that stratosphere with some mixed 411 00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:27,900 results. Obviously, for Indiana to go, 412 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:31,390 first of all to be able to pull in, you know, Malik renewed. 413 00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:33,750 To be able to pull into Jalen Hood Schaffino, to be able to 414 00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:36,830 pull in Liam Mcneely, maybe pull in a couple of other people here 415 00:22:36,830 --> 00:22:39,110 in this cycle. I think it demonstrates that 416 00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:42,470 Indiana is back on the playing field nationally and that has a 417 00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:46,590 knock on effect to other recruits who you know if you 418 00:22:46,590 --> 00:22:48,150 start. And this is where you know. 419 00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:51,390 This is where we keep hammering in on this podcast, getting out 420 00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:54,390 of the Crossroads Classic, which was a regional tournament at the 421 00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:56,150 end of the day. It was for the state of Indiana 422 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,560 getting out of that mode and playing in New York and playing 423 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,400 in Atlanta and playing in Vegas and playing in in in the Bahamas 424 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,080 next year. That is what Indiana has to do 425 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,600 if it wants to be a national brand. 426 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,760 And going back to that question previously, you know, there were 427 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,080 occasionally trips to those places, but it always felt like 428 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,600 when Indiana was playing those hope high profile games after 429 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,640 the 20/12/2013 season, they kind of felt like an afterthought in 430 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,440 that mix. And you know, it's been galling 431 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,120 to me to watch Michigan State be in the grouping with Kansas, 432 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,480 Kentucky and Duke playing up in Indianapolis at that. 433 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,680 You know, that tip off classic that happens every year, 434 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,960 whatever they call it, the CBE Cloud. 435 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,960 I don't even know what the name of it is, you know, because that 436 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,440 really should be Indiana's spot. Indiana should be in that. 437 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,480 It shouldn't be Michigan State, but Michigan State, to their 438 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,480 credit, even though they've only won one national title in the 439 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,230 last 25 years, they have pushed themselves into that spot and 440 00:23:57,230 --> 00:24:00,910 they have been a brand that you can't ignore and they have 441 00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:03,510 gotten the types of recruits that have related to that. 442 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:07,590 And so this is a long standing process that Indiana has to get 443 00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:10,430 themselves back into the national equation, back into the 444 00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:13,110 conversation, back into the minds of recruits. 445 00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:18,150 They can't be viewed as a adult brand or a brand that isn't 446 00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:20,230 relevant. And look, I think a lot of what 447 00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:23,870 Mike Woodson's done has really positioned Indiana for that. 448 00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:27,990 You know, the fact that you've got Trace Jackson Davis now in 449 00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:30,590 the league, you got Jalen Hood Shaffino as a first round pick 450 00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:33,070 in the league. You know you're you're bringing 451 00:24:33,070 --> 00:24:35,750 in players that are going to be in the conversation for getting 452 00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:38,190 drafted. That is the stuff that resonates 453 00:24:38,190 --> 00:24:40,830 with the top level recruits. You have to have the success to 454 00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:42,870 go along with it. It's not just, hey, you know, 455 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:45,470 we're in these tournaments, you have to win some of them and I 456 00:24:45,470 --> 00:24:49,790 think that's the next step. But I like where these things 457 00:24:49,790 --> 00:24:55,700 are going overall. Assembly call asks, we're going 458 00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:58,140 to do our flag plants on Thursday's assembly call. 459 00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:01,380 Radio predictions for the IU basketball season that we feel 460 00:25:01,380 --> 00:25:04,780 strongest about. What are your flag plants for 461 00:25:04,780 --> 00:25:09,900 the season? Man, I I think my this is this 462 00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:12,780 is a vague flag plant, so I'm not even sure if it counts as a 463 00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:15,740 flag plant. But I my, my flag plan is that 464 00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:19,690 Indiana will be significantly better at the end of the season 465 00:25:19,690 --> 00:25:23,130 and will look like it on the floor then they will in November 466 00:25:23,850 --> 00:25:26,090 because I think this team's going to take some time to gel. 467 00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:29,330 We talked about that on the preview podcast that we did last 468 00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:30,730 week, which you should check out. 469 00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:35,090 But I, but I think you know if I'm looking at individual flag 470 00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:42,650 plants I I feel really confident that one. 471 00:25:42,650 --> 00:25:46,770 Of the two most important newcomers either. 472 00:25:47,290 --> 00:25:54,090 Mbako or Coel Ware is going to be a player that is in 473 00:25:54,410 --> 00:25:58,330 contention for an all big 10 team by the end of the year like 474 00:25:58,330 --> 00:26:00,650 one of the top 15 players in the conference. 475 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,570 You know probably and I will say you know one of the other of 476 00:26:04,570 --> 00:26:09,290 them will probably be close to double double territory 477 00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:10,890 statistical. I don't know which one I 478 00:26:10,890 --> 00:26:13,690 because, and this actually ties into a question that was was 479 00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:16,770 asked elsewhere and it's why. I've been a little bit. 480 00:26:17,260 --> 00:26:22,580 Hesitant on concrete types of projections on the season, but 481 00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:27,060 you know, I think ultimately the the question, and I'm trying to 482 00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:29,060 find the question, there were there were a lot of questions 483 00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:32,420 asked overall, but the question was essentially, you know, what 484 00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:35,220 is, what do you think Indiana will look like in terms of how 485 00:26:35,220 --> 00:26:40,580 they play this season given the fact that you've got a 486 00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:44,100 completely different set of players out on the floor, You're 487 00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:47,890 going to have probably a very different type of style, you 488 00:26:47,890 --> 00:26:51,770 know, and that's that's the kind of thing that I think makes 489 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:55,890 ironclad predictions on what's going to happen with this team. 490 00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:57,530 A little bit different. It was actually from who's 491 00:26:57,530 --> 00:26:58,370 yours. Thank you. 492 00:26:58,370 --> 00:27:00,850 I, I just found it. How do you suspect the playing 493 00:27:00,850 --> 00:27:03,090 style of this year's men's basketball team will compare and 494 00:27:03,090 --> 00:27:04,890 contrast to Woodson's first two years? 495 00:27:06,250 --> 00:27:10,210 When I look at Woodson's first two years, the things that stick 496 00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:15,890 out to me are as follows. Both seasons his teams have been 497 00:27:17,310 --> 00:27:19,830 really interesting in that they have tried to play to the 498 00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:23,870 strengths of the team while minimizing the weaknesses. 499 00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:26,510 Which sounds like kind of no duh territory, but you'd be 500 00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:28,310 surprised at how many teams don't do that. 501 00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:30,910 His first team. Was a really good defensive 502 00:27:30,910 --> 00:27:34,670 team, A top 25 defensive team and was pretty, pretty 503 00:27:34,670 --> 00:27:37,710 pedestrian on offense, his second team. 504 00:27:37,910 --> 00:27:41,870 Was a really good offensive team and was I wouldn't call them 505 00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:44,960 pedestrian on defense, but they weren't a a world beating 506 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,080 defensive type of team. I think this year's team is 507 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,160 going to gravitate a lot more towards being a really good 508 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,360 defensive team. There's so much length, there's 509 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,520 so much experience it where there is not length, you know, 510 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,120 so Xavier Johnson and Trey Galloway I mean those guys have 511 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,280 been through the fire in major conference basketball for you 512 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,760 know four years and five years and then you got this immense 513 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,280 length. You've got rim protection with 514 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,130 Coel Ware. You've got, you know, you've got 515 00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:15,410 some reserve opportunities in the post. 516 00:28:15,410 --> 00:28:18,930 You've got Malik Renew, who I think learned a lot last year. 517 00:28:20,170 --> 00:28:23,370 You know, so I think if I had to guess, I think that this team 518 00:28:23,370 --> 00:28:30,290 this year is probably going to be a lot more fluid in their 519 00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:33,720 offensive approach to the game because they're not going to 520 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,680 look like a bunch of planets orbiting the sun, which is 521 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,400 frankly what they look like to a large degree with Trace Jackson 522 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,160 Davis is the primary focal point. 523 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,840 You know, I I I see this team as a team that if they can get some 524 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:54,080 level of consistent outside shooting from Mbako from Trey 525 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Galloway. If Malik Renew can step out and 526 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,900 shoot from outside some more, you're going to see and even 527 00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,180 Colo where obviously who has shown the ability to shoot from 528 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:04,500 outside. I think this team is going to 529 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,460 look a lot less structured and a lot less rigid offensively. 530 00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:11,100 And I think defensively and this is where I think the 531 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:12,860 development's going to have to come over the course of the 532 00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:15,580 season. Once this team learns how to 533 00:29:15,580 --> 00:29:19,780 play defense and once they learn, you know, not to foul as 534 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:23,420 we saw with with Renew last year, I think this team's going 535 00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:25,620 to be really hard to score against as time goes by. 536 00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:27,660 I just think it's going to take a while and I think there's 537 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:31,040 going to be, you know, so I guess this is this, this adds to 538 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,680 my tent pole thing earlier. I would not be shocked if 539 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,320 Indiana lost by 25 to UConn. I would not be shocked if 540 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Indiana lost pretty handily to Auburn because those teams do a 541 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440 lot of things that Indiana's probably going to struggle to 542 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,280 do. I also wouldn't be shocked to 543 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,600 see Indiana drop the first two games in Big 10 play that they 544 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,880 have at the beginning of December. 545 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,800 And I think at that point you see a lot of people being like, 546 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,540 see, we told you, you know, Woodson can't coach da, da, da, 547 00:29:57,540 --> 00:29:59,580 which I think will be incredibly premature. 548 00:30:00,980 --> 00:30:02,980 It sounds like I'm making excuses, but I'm just trying to 549 00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:04,500 project how I think the season's going to go. 550 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,860 This, this team strikes me as a team that'll win the games that 551 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:11,420 they should, and it's probably going to struggle in some of 552 00:30:11,420 --> 00:30:13,940 those early season matchups against top competition. 553 00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:17,140 But as we talked about last year, those don't really hurt 554 00:30:17,140 --> 00:30:19,220 you. You know, losing to Arizona last 555 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:22,460 year didn't hurt Indiana. Losing to Kansas didn't hurt 556 00:30:22,460 --> 00:30:24,260 Indiana in terms of the tournament draw. 557 00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:26,860 It hurt them in the eyes of their fans. 558 00:30:26,860 --> 00:30:29,220 And ironically that. I think part of the problem is 559 00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:34,380 Indiana fans are so hungry for sustained top ten, top 15 level 560 00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:39,340 success that any set back in that environment, especially 561 00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:41,500 against the team that Indiana's trying to measure itself 562 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:45,740 against, like the defending NCAA champs, is going to be viewed as 563 00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,260 a step backwards. And I think it's important to 564 00:30:48,260 --> 00:30:53,260 remember that this team is going to be fundamentally reorganizing 565 00:30:53,260 --> 00:30:55,650 itself. I think in terms of how it 566 00:30:55,650 --> 00:31:00,450 approaches, it's on the court style play and I think the pace 567 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:02,290 will probably be a little bit faster. 568 00:31:02,530 --> 00:31:05,130 I think that the defense is going to be more aggressive and 569 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:09,250 it's going to be more effective at pushing teams out of the post 570 00:31:09,250 --> 00:31:12,210 and and making them take more shots from mid range and beyond. 571 00:31:12,810 --> 00:31:15,410 And you know the big question marks that I. 572 00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:18,450 Really will be focusing on in terms of the other intangibles 573 00:31:18,450 --> 00:31:21,970 are can Indiana do better in the turnover department. 574 00:31:21,970 --> 00:31:25,870 That's been one area of Woodson's rain that hasn't been 575 00:31:25,870 --> 00:31:28,670 great so far. They they've, you know, they 576 00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:31,390 they've they've done a good job. And I I don't mean offensively, 577 00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:33,590 I mean defensively. They have not turned the 578 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:36,870 opposition over very much at all over the course of the first two 579 00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:39,790 years. I think they need to do more of 580 00:31:39,790 --> 00:31:45,410 that because I don't think that they can rely on, you know, 581 00:31:45,650 --> 00:31:49,090 keeping opponents off the board. I I don't think that they can 582 00:31:49,090 --> 00:31:53,610 rely on necessarily solely relying on making it hard for 583 00:31:53,610 --> 00:31:55,690 the other team to shoot. That's what they've done the 584 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:57,730 best defensively the first couple of years. 585 00:31:58,730 --> 00:32:01,450 And I think some of that frankly was due to the fact that they 586 00:32:02,010 --> 00:32:04,770 didn't have the type of athleticism on the bench that 587 00:32:04,770 --> 00:32:06,530 they could rely on. I think they've got that now to 588 00:32:06,530 --> 00:32:08,530 some degree. So I think they'll be a little 589 00:32:08,530 --> 00:32:12,220 more aggressiveness on defense, because since you, you know, if 590 00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:14,860 you're not worried about losing Trace Jackson Davis to fouls, 591 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:19,220 since you know you last year, if you lose Reese Thompson to 592 00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:20,820 fouls, you're really thin in the post. 593 00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:23,220 This year. There's enough interchangeable 594 00:32:23,220 --> 00:32:26,380 parts that if they go small or if they decide that you know 595 00:32:26,380 --> 00:32:29,860 they're going to play CJ Gunn, you know more often than not and 596 00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:31,260 move them around to different spots. 597 00:32:31,260 --> 00:32:35,380 Or if they're moving, you know, Caleb Banks around in different 598 00:32:35,380 --> 00:32:39,130 spots, I think that they're going to be able to do more of 599 00:32:39,130 --> 00:32:42,210 that, be more aggressive and not so much worry about committing 600 00:32:42,210 --> 00:32:43,690 fouls. And I think that'll actually end 601 00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:45,930 up helping because that aggressiveness will lead to 602 00:32:45,930 --> 00:32:47,770 turning the opponent over more often. 603 00:32:47,770 --> 00:32:50,490 So those are kind of the big things that I'm looking for this 604 00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:53,650 season. I I think this team is probably 605 00:32:53,650 --> 00:32:56,610 at the end of the day going to be a A7 seed in the tournament 606 00:32:56,610 --> 00:32:59,010 somewhere in that range, which is a great spot for them to be 607 00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:02,450 in because it's a seven seed kind of ramping up at the end of 608 00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:04,770 the year like I think they will. I think they'd be a really 609 00:33:04,770 --> 00:33:07,670 dangerous tournament team. Still want to see them on the 610 00:33:07,670 --> 00:33:09,870 court before I make any final determinations, but that's 611 00:33:09,870 --> 00:33:13,470 essentially where I've landed up to this point as far as this 612 00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:16,310 season goes. Couple other basketball 613 00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:21,110 questions I wanted to get to Al Forno asked which IU basketball 614 00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:24,430 projected bench player, so not the projected starters. 615 00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:27,550 Ends up with the most minutes and points. 616 00:33:29,030 --> 00:33:30,790 I thought about this one. It's a really good question. 617 00:33:30,790 --> 00:33:31,990 I'm going to go with Peyton Sparks. 618 00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:35,630 I think, you know Sparks. People have forgotten Sparks 619 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,480 shot a lot of baskets at Ball State last year. 620 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,600 I mean, you know, if you look at his, his offensive output last 621 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:50,760 year, it was pretty impressive. And for Ball State he played 71% 622 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,680 of available minutes. He shot 58% from the field on 623 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,400 228 shots taken, used a lot of possessions. 624 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,600 He's not going to be that guy. You know, he drew a lot of 625 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,940 fouls, Not a great free throw shooter. 626 00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:06,860 And I think that's going to frustrate a lot of people. 627 00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:11,780 You know, I mean, historically he is a, it's interesting his he 628 00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:14,100 shot 51% from the free throw line last year. 629 00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:17,580 He shot 71% from the free throw line the previous year. 630 00:34:18,219 --> 00:34:20,860 Who we going to get? I don't know the the good free 631 00:34:20,860 --> 00:34:22,699 throw shooting Peyton or the bad free throw shooting Peyton. 632 00:34:22,699 --> 00:34:26,340 But I think Peyton Sparks has a really good chance of being a 633 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:29,139 guy who scores a lot of points while he's in there spelling 634 00:34:29,139 --> 00:34:33,550 Colell Ware or heading up a second unit or even just in mop 635 00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:35,510 up time. So that'll be my projection 636 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:38,110 there. But I look, I I honestly think 637 00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:43,590 that I wouldn't be shocked if, you know, if we saw CJ Gunn 638 00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:46,949 really step up and become a scoring threat for this team. 639 00:34:46,949 --> 00:34:49,030 I'd like to see it first, but it wouldn't shock me if that was 640 00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:51,030 the case. But I'll go with Sparks as my 641 00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:55,429 primary answer there, OK. I guess we're going to jump 642 00:34:55,429 --> 00:34:56,790 over. To the football questions now 643 00:34:56,909 --> 00:34:58,950 and we're going to answer a few of these and then. 644 00:34:59,290 --> 00:35:01,690 We'll call this one quits and then we'll kind of figure out 645 00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:03,330 when. We're going to do another one of 646 00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:04,730 these 'cause this has been fun so far. 647 00:35:06,610 --> 00:35:13,930 Let's see, we've got a question from Who's your Dada with Rod 648 00:35:13,930 --> 00:35:16,930 Carey's contract details showing him as the offensive coordinator 649 00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:19,930 until December of 2025. Is that date the date we 650 00:35:19,930 --> 00:35:22,370 anticipate IU to move away from Tom Allen? 651 00:35:24,270 --> 00:35:27,390 Can I you really afford two more seasons of the coaching staff 652 00:35:27,790 --> 00:35:30,830 referencing the downward trends that we mentioned in the 653 00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:34,910 Michigan post game pod? So one of the things to keep in 654 00:35:34,910 --> 00:35:39,430 mind is that the contract language for Rod Carey does not 655 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:42,270 mean that he's locked in as offensive coordinator until 656 00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:44,750 2025. It's his job until then if he's 657 00:35:44,750 --> 00:35:47,830 employed. But he could be fired at the end 658 00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:51,410 of this year and I you would only owe him the remainder of 659 00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:55,130 his contract through the fiscal year, so through June 30th. 660 00:35:55,250 --> 00:35:59,050 So realistically, no, I don't think that what you're saying is 661 00:35:59,050 --> 00:36:02,450 is true that we have to wait until December 2025 if Indiana 662 00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:05,850 was going to make a change. I think what the contract says 663 00:36:05,850 --> 00:36:08,770 is that Rod carries the offensive coordinator. 664 00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:13,370 He's got a contract through 2025, but it is severable at the 665 00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:16,290 end of every year where if he does, if if Alan, if the 666 00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:19,330 coaching staff gets fired because you know the IU makes a 667 00:36:19,330 --> 00:36:22,230 change, you would only be obligated through the end of 668 00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:24,910 that. So that's that's where the 669 00:36:24,910 --> 00:36:26,990 contract language is important to understand. 670 00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:32,470 So that's that would be that we had a bunch of questions about 671 00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:34,830 Tom Allen and I'm going to try to pick through as many of these 672 00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:38,870 as I can. Jamie Jordan, long time listener 673 00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:41,350 to the pod. I've been done with Allen since 674 00:36:41,350 --> 00:36:43,550 Toledo. You guys criticized very heavily 675 00:36:43,550 --> 00:36:46,790 but won't outright say you think he should be gone. 676 00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:49,780 Why? That said, until real, actual 677 00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:52,420 investments are made by the board of trustees and the 678 00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:55,780 athletic department, like Kansas announced, this is all just 679 00:36:55,780 --> 00:36:57,340 rearranging chairs on that Titanic. 680 00:36:57,340 --> 00:37:00,580 We had a lot of questions about that sort of thing. 681 00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:05,340 I I will say we've tried. We we don't. 682 00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:07,540 I mean, look, here's the thing there. 683 00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:11,300 There came a point when Green was here where it really felt 684 00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:16,470 like Indiana needed to move on and I don't recall US ever 685 00:37:16,670 --> 00:37:20,750 calling for cream to get fired. You know what I would say 686 00:37:21,310 --> 00:37:25,350 overall on this is I don't think it does any good for a podcast 687 00:37:25,350 --> 00:37:27,670 or radio show to say a guy should be fired. 688 00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:30,430 I think you're all intelligent enough to make your own 689 00:37:30,430 --> 00:37:36,030 decisions about things and talking through why a coach is 690 00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:38,950 struggling or why a coach maybe deserves criticism. 691 00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:41,870 I think it's different than out and out calling for a firing. 692 00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:45,950 And so look ultimately it's a it's a choice. 693 00:37:45,950 --> 00:37:48,150 A lot of people choose to go the opposite direction and they want 694 00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:51,070 to make declarations or proclamations on things and 695 00:37:51,070 --> 00:37:53,110 that's fine. I mean I I have no problem with 696 00:37:53,110 --> 00:37:55,270 that. Morally I am. 697 00:37:55,870 --> 00:38:00,150 Ultimately, as I look at things, I think that our opinion here 698 00:38:00,150 --> 00:38:01,990 doesn't necessarily matter in terms of oh they're going to 699 00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:04,910 make a decision or not. But I think laying out evidence 700 00:38:04,910 --> 00:38:08,150 or laying out context and letting people kind of draw 701 00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:10,350 their own conclusions from things is good. 702 00:38:10,350 --> 00:38:17,100 I I just look at it like this. I think the nobody I I don't 703 00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:19,780 believe you know there's there's nothing malicious going on with 704 00:38:19,780 --> 00:38:22,700 IU football. I I just don't think the things 705 00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:25,380 are going well. I don't think it does a whole 706 00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:28,420 lot of good to you know specifically in the middle of 707 00:38:28,420 --> 00:38:30,620 the season say someone needs to be gotten rid of. 708 00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:32,620 So at the end of the year different story and I think if 709 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:34,900 you recall we talked about that this year. 710 00:38:35,180 --> 00:38:38,820 Yeah, last year or two years ago I guess it was, we did talk 711 00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:43,440 openly and say you know IU, you know at the end of the season if 712 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,800 they haven't made a change at offensive coordinator probably 713 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,400 needs to cause the offense isn't working. 714 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,680 And they they did that actually before the seat or right at the 715 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,920 right of the season ended with with Nick Sheridan. 716 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,280 We also talked about the Darren Hailer situation at that time 717 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,440 and said that needs to be a change there just from a a a 718 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,640 performance perspective. So I just look at it and I say I 719 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,080 I don't think there's nothing malicious is happening with IU 720 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,710 football. Things just aren't working and 721 00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:13,310 calling for a firing in the middle of the season kind of 722 00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:14,870 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 723 00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:18,070 But if that if it makes you feel better to call for a firing, I'm 724 00:39:18,070 --> 00:39:20,270 not saying you Jamie, but I'm saying people in general. 725 00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:22,790 Certainly as fans, I think you're absolutely free to 726 00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:25,550 express yourself. It just kind of you, but you 727 00:39:25,550 --> 00:39:27,470 choose how to express your feelings. 728 00:39:27,470 --> 00:39:29,630 This is how we've chosen to express ours? 729 00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:35,070 CSW Hoosier asked. Well, Tom Allen's extension came 730 00:39:35,070 --> 00:39:37,790 with a hefty buyout that seems unnecessarily large. 731 00:39:37,790 --> 00:39:41,030 It did seem fair at the time that he should receive an 732 00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:43,790 extension after the 2019 and 2020 seasons. 733 00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:47,510 What other directions could the administration have gone in 734 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:49,230 order to avoid our current situation? 735 00:39:50,270 --> 00:39:54,470 And this is a really fascinating point, and it's something that I 736 00:39:54,470 --> 00:40:00,630 struggle a lot with because I I was in favor of Allen getting an 737 00:40:00,630 --> 00:40:03,580 extension. I think that the problem isn't 738 00:40:03,580 --> 00:40:05,860 the extension, the problem is the buyout. 739 00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:11,220 And this is where I think to some degree, athletic 740 00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:13,820 departments in general, and this is not something unique to IU. 741 00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:16,260 This happens all over college sports. 742 00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:19,940 Athletic departments are really bad at bidding against 743 00:40:19,940 --> 00:40:21,740 themselves when they don't have to. 744 00:40:22,180 --> 00:40:27,420 And you see it with Texas A&M and Jimbo Fisher where they gave 745 00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:30,380 Jimbo Fisher an immense buyout from day one. 746 00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:33,630 And it was entirely based upon the work he had done at Florida 747 00:40:33,630 --> 00:40:38,190 State. And you know A&M was like that's 748 00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:40,150 that's the cost of doing business. 749 00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:42,430 And that's to some degree what we heard about the Allen 750 00:40:42,430 --> 00:40:44,630 extension was that it's the cost of doing business. 751 00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:49,790 And I think a lot of this is important to keep in context and 752 00:40:49,790 --> 00:40:50,990 I think you bring up a good point. 753 00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:54,870 It's not just 2019 and 2020. You have to think that by that 754 00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:58,630 point IU look like it had established itself as a 755 00:40:58,630 --> 00:41:03,300 consistent competitive program, very similar to what we saw in 756 00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:07,860 the Mallory era where, you know, I mean in 2020 IU was in 757 00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:10,540 contention, should have gone to the Big 10 title game. 758 00:41:10,540 --> 00:41:13,620 They got voted out of it in something that still blows my 759 00:41:13,620 --> 00:41:15,300 mind. They won eight games the 760 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:19,820 previous year and in the the seven years leading up to that, 761 00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,940 they had raised the floor of the program to where they had won 762 00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:28,380 five games, four games, six games, six games, five games, 763 00:41:28,380 --> 00:41:31,910 five games and then eight. And then they went six and two 764 00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:37,350 in 2020. I'm sure at the time, Indiana 765 00:41:37,350 --> 00:41:39,070 looked at that. They looked at the fact they 766 00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:41,830 were going to be a top 20 team going into the 2021 season. 767 00:41:41,830 --> 00:41:44,310 They're like we need to lock Tom Allen down because everything 768 00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:45,790 seems like it's working really well. 769 00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:50,070 And then it didn't. And you asked what Indiana could 770 00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:52,230 have done differently to avoid the current situation. 771 00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:55,910 I mean the simplest thing there that you could say is, well 772 00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:59,720 don't give that much of A buyout and if it's that much of a piece 773 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,120 of contention, well that's just one of those things that you 774 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,440 can't give in on. If you're an an institution, you 775 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,800 can't just say we'll fine, we're going to give you this immense 776 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,160 buyout and we're going to have it last for a huge amount of 777 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,000 time. If you're worried about a coach 778 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,520 getting poached and or you've got an agent saying, look, we 779 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,920 have to have this number because that's what this person and this 780 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,280 person and this person are getting. 781 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,720 You're going to do things to try to protect yourself with that 782 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:28,720 coach. I don't know that anybody looked 783 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:32,720 at going into that 2021 season and saw anything but a 784 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,120 continuation of what had happened the previous several 785 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,480 years. I don't know that anybody went 786 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,560 into that 2021 season expecting it to go, You know, maybe you 787 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,200 expect maybe they'll take a step back. 788 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,560 But a step back at that point would have been like 7:00 and 789 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:49,720 5:00, not 2 and 10. And that's the thing that you 790 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,780 know, as much as I am frustrated about buy you football, as much 791 00:42:53,780 --> 00:42:57,900 as I'm frustrated about Allen's inability to fix the program, as 792 00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:00,740 much as I have historically been frustrated by the by the 793 00:43:00,740 --> 00:43:07,660 university's lack of investment in football, you know, that 794 00:43:07,660 --> 00:43:09,420 seemed like the right move. It's like, well, of course 795 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:12,460 you're going to lock down Tom Allen at the time and if you can 796 00:43:12,460 --> 00:43:14,540 put yourself back in that period, it's easy to say, well, 797 00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:15,940 I wouldn't have given him that buy out. 798 00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:17,300 I don't know that that's the case. 799 00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:19,540 I don't know that anybody in that position would have said, 800 00:43:19,860 --> 00:43:23,120 well, this is a guy who, if he asks for that much of A buyout 801 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,160 because he wants to essentially meld himself with the IU 802 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,640 football program, what would you have pointed to other than, hey, 803 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,000 he's had great coordinators, you know, what would you have 804 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,160 pointed to at that point to say, well, don't give him the buyout, 805 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,120 it was the wrong bet. But it was AI think it was a bet 806 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,040 that was made with the idea that, you know, I mean, gosh, he 807 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,860 hired Kailyn. Deborah Nick Sheridan had one 808 00:43:49,860 --> 00:43:51,420 year where the offense looked pretty good. 809 00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:52,940 I mean, a lot of that was Michael Pennix. 810 00:43:52,940 --> 00:43:57,260 As as I think we've learned, Kaine Wommack was a really, 811 00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:59,500 really awesome defensive coordinator who's become a 812 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:01,780 really, really awesome head coach at South Alabama. 813 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:06,460 Who could have predicted that Allen's choices in assistant 814 00:44:06,460 --> 00:44:09,780 coaches and coordinators from that point forward in those key 815 00:44:09,780 --> 00:44:13,740 roles would have struggled so much in what they've done? 816 00:44:14,370 --> 00:44:17,130 Who would have predicted that all of these recruiting classes 817 00:44:17,130 --> 00:44:20,010 that were among the best, if not the best that Indiana never had 818 00:44:20,010 --> 00:44:23,690 wouldn't work out? It doesn't absolve the 819 00:44:23,690 --> 00:44:25,930 extension. It doesn't absolve the length of 820 00:44:25,930 --> 00:44:29,090 the extension. It doesn't absolve the immense 821 00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:33,690 structural problems now that are presenting themselves with IU 822 00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:36,610 football. And it's incredibly frustrating 823 00:44:36,610 --> 00:44:38,810 that this is how it has ended up. 824 00:44:39,130 --> 00:44:43,200 And I just think it's easy to say in, in hindsight, of course, 825 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,680 you shouldn't have done that. And the one thing I'll say is I 826 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:52,640 I think unless you're 100% sure of a coach, unless you're 100% 827 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,840 sure that this is a sure thing, I just don't think those types 828 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,640 of buyouts are worth it. And I think if you've got a guy 829 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,120 under contract already, I mean, what what's the coach? 830 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,280 What's he going to do? Go somewhere else maybe. 831 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:10,100 But I I think that sometimes successful coaches, you're so 832 00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:13,060 worried about losing one that you end up putting yourself in a 833 00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:16,140 disadvantageous financial position because you don't 834 00:45:16,140 --> 00:45:19,180 believe that you could go get another coach who could be at 835 00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:22,020 that level. I think part of Indiana's 836 00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,980 changeover as they move forward is going to have to be believing 837 00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:28,500 that they can draw better coaches. 838 00:45:29,260 --> 00:45:32,260 That you know if if someone were to leave who was actually very 839 00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:35,340 good that you could replace him with somebody just as good. 840 00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:39,450 But you know, there's no question at the end of it all 841 00:45:39,450 --> 00:45:42,930 that regardless of whatever the intentions were, the reality has 842 00:45:42,930 --> 00:45:46,690 been that Indiana finds itself in a real bad spot because every 843 00:45:47,210 --> 00:45:49,810 directional arrow for this program is pointing in the wrong 844 00:45:49,810 --> 00:45:51,970 direction. The atmosphere is becoming 845 00:45:51,970 --> 00:45:54,970 increasingly toxic. It's just a really, really bad 846 00:45:54,970 --> 00:45:58,570 situation. And there are unfortunately 847 00:45:58,570 --> 00:46:02,650 often times you know the even if you did something with the best 848 00:46:02,650 --> 00:46:04,650 of intentions, the fingers going to get pointed at you and that's 849 00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:08,010 part of being in charge. And I don't think I'm breaking 850 00:46:08,010 --> 00:46:10,530 any ground with all of this and I'm sure someone's going to 851 00:46:10,530 --> 00:46:12,690 accuse me of being wishy washy or something with this. 852 00:46:12,690 --> 00:46:16,450 But realistically speaking, again, put yourself back at the 853 00:46:16,450 --> 00:46:20,730 end of the 2020 season when the entirety of IU Nation is lined 854 00:46:20,730 --> 00:46:23,570 up behind Tom Allen and is looking at this and is 855 00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:27,210 imagining, you know, a future where they're more competitive, 856 00:46:27,210 --> 00:46:28,970 not significantly less competitive. 857 00:46:29,650 --> 00:46:33,490 And it's, you know, again, you can go back and say don't give 858 00:46:33,490 --> 00:46:37,220 that kind of an extension. And I think with this lesson in 859 00:46:37,220 --> 00:46:40,420 mind, I would absolutely believe you and and agree with you at 860 00:46:40,420 --> 00:46:41,980 the time. I don't know that I necessarily 861 00:46:41,980 --> 00:46:44,260 blinked an eye and I think a lot of people looked at it and said 862 00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:48,700 great, we've got Tom Allen for the next five to seven years and 863 00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:52,340 it just hasn't worked out. So to answer the other buyout 864 00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:55,900 questions, Hoosier Russ asks is a Tom Allen buyout after the 865 00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:58,380 season truly realistic? Assuming things don't get better 866 00:46:58,380 --> 00:47:03,580 down the stretch, you know anything's possible. 867 00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:08,150 In this era of of of money and college football and college 868 00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:11,310 sports, anything's possible. It's a lot of money. 869 00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:17,310 And as I mentioned on an earlier podcast, it's not just the 20 870 00:47:17,310 --> 00:47:19,070 million or 21 million of the buyout. 871 00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:21,550 It's also you have to buy out the assistance. 872 00:47:21,550 --> 00:47:24,590 It's also you have to buy out strength and conditioning. 873 00:47:24,910 --> 00:47:27,670 It's also you have to hire a new person who's probably going to 874 00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:31,840 ask for an even bigger buyout because you just fired the coach 875 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,680 that had the $21 million buyout. And any agent worth their salt 876 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,120 is going to walk into the negotiating room and say, why 877 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:43,440 should my guy sign with you guys when you just fired a guy and 878 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,600 spent $20 million to get rid of them? 879 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,760 How does he have any job security if he comes to 880 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,040 Bloomington? These are really tough 881 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,720 questions. And you know to some degree, I 882 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:57,000 mean a lot of people have and and you know we certainly have 883 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,870 questioned, you know, why, why name Rod Carey, the offensive 884 00:48:01,870 --> 00:48:04,030 coordinator permanently. Why not do it on an interim 885 00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:07,030 level? Why, why do a lot of the things, 886 00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:10,630 why allow a lot of the things that have been going on to go 887 00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:13,510 on. And I think if you're looking at 888 00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:15,990 this from a game theory perspective, I think IU 889 00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:19,870 Athletics looks at it and says, you know, if we do need to make 890 00:48:19,870 --> 00:48:21,750 a change. And again I have no insight 891 00:48:21,790 --> 00:48:23,630 info, this is just complete speculation. 892 00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:26,390 But they're they're looking at it and said if they need to make 893 00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:29,450 a change, at the very least they want to be able to say we gave 894 00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:33,810 Tom Allen every opportunity, succeed when he wanted to, you 895 00:48:33,810 --> 00:48:35,810 know, install himself as defensive coordinator. 896 00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:38,290 We let him do it. When we when he wanted to hire 897 00:48:38,290 --> 00:48:40,970 Walt Bell as offensive coordinator, we let him do it. 898 00:48:41,170 --> 00:48:44,290 When he wanted to fire Walt Bell and install Rod Carey and give 899 00:48:44,290 --> 00:48:47,810 him the biggest contract for an offensive coordinator in IU 900 00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:49,410 football history, we let him do it. 901 00:48:50,450 --> 00:48:55,730 You know, I think to some degree that, you know, this is a tricky 902 00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:59,890 situation for a program like IU that does not have the culture, 903 00:48:59,890 --> 00:49:04,770 the background, the booster financial backing that their 904 00:49:04,770 --> 00:49:07,250 competitors in the Big 10 or elsewhere in major college 905 00:49:07,250 --> 00:49:11,650 football have. And it's a very difficult 906 00:49:11,650 --> 00:49:16,730 situation and it's it stinks because you know, the the line 907 00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:20,690 in general has been that IU doesn't invest in football, 908 00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:24,340 which is kind of weird when they gave the coach a $20 million 909 00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:27,780 buyout, when they've increased the assistant pool. 910 00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:31,100 When they have, you know, they enclosed both ends of the 911 00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:33,300 stadium. You know it. 912 00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:36,380 To me, I look at it and I say, well, that's not investment or 913 00:49:36,380 --> 00:49:39,740 lack of investment. It might not be the the, the 914 00:49:39,740 --> 00:49:42,260 smartest investment if you look at it in retrospect. 915 00:49:42,260 --> 00:49:44,620 But the idea that IU hasn't been investing in the football 916 00:49:44,620 --> 00:49:46,540 program recently is just not true. 917 00:49:47,220 --> 00:49:50,910 Is it enough? Probably not you know so I think 918 00:49:50,910 --> 00:49:57,310 ultimately the question of the buyout being possible or not I 919 00:49:57,310 --> 00:50:00,030 think in this era and a lot of people chimed in with this this 920 00:50:00,030 --> 00:50:03,790 idea that you know can you afford to have a football 921 00:50:03,790 --> 00:50:07,230 program that just is is not competitive given the state of 922 00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:11,970 college football and what it means for the athletic programs 923 00:50:11,970 --> 00:50:13,690 revenue. Can IU afford to have another 924 00:50:13,690 --> 00:50:16,610 sub four win season next year or does the TV money mean it really 925 00:50:16,610 --> 00:50:18,530 doesn't matter that much. And I think the answer is 926 00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:22,730 actually in the short term it's the it's the latter as as as 927 00:50:22,730 --> 00:50:26,650 bitter of a pill it is to swallow for those of us who are 928 00:50:26,650 --> 00:50:31,930 IU football fans and and people that follow the program the the 929 00:50:31,930 --> 00:50:34,530 the losing isn't going to affect the television money and the 930 00:50:34,530 --> 00:50:36,530 television money is the most important thing. 931 00:50:36,980 --> 00:50:40,820 Now there are other aspects of things that are important from a 932 00:50:40,820 --> 00:50:43,900 revenue perspective like GATE. And I think that where you worry 933 00:50:43,900 --> 00:50:50,780 is that people forget how bad I use Gate was back in the mid O 934 00:50:50,780 --> 00:50:54,020 OS at you know average attendance at one point if you 935 00:50:54,020 --> 00:50:57,380 took like A5 game rolling average dropped down to like 936 00:50:57,380 --> 00:51:00,700 2827 thousand maybe slightly less than that. 937 00:51:01,180 --> 00:51:03,180 And that was that was the Dinardo era. 938 00:51:03,700 --> 00:51:07,860 The so much of the oxygen got sucked out of the building that 939 00:51:08,380 --> 00:51:11,500 people to stop caring and it took a long time to build that 940 00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:12,980 back. And this is one of those things 941 00:51:12,980 --> 00:51:16,020 that Fred Glass doesn't get enough credit for, which is if 942 00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:19,820 you look at the attendance as it rolls up in the late 2000s and 943 00:51:19,820 --> 00:51:23,220 especially into the 20 tens, there was clearly a concerted 944 00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:26,460 effort to figure out how to get people back in the building, how 945 00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:29,660 to make the experience more fun and it worked. 946 00:51:29,660 --> 00:51:33,310 I mean it it too and and even for a while with with Kevin 947 00:51:33,310 --> 00:51:36,750 Wilson as the head coach his offenses made it so that the 948 00:51:36,750 --> 00:51:39,270 games were at least entertaining even if Indiana didn't win. 949 00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:44,230 Where it does matter I think is if the gate drops considerably 950 00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:45,910 and I think we've already started to see that. 951 00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:47,910 You know the, you know, I don't know what the Rutgers gates 952 00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:51,270 going to be this weekend for homecoming, but it's not looking 953 00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:55,110 great. And and certainly when you think 954 00:51:55,110 --> 00:51:58,590 about the crowds that Indiana has to have at home if they're 955 00:51:58,590 --> 00:52:01,270 going to be successful, they really do need to be in that 45 956 00:52:01,270 --> 00:52:04,790 to 50,000 range for for a lot of games just because they're so 957 00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:06,910 far behind a lot of their competitors in terms of what 958 00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:10,550 they're able to clear gate wise. So it does matter I think a year 959 00:52:10,550 --> 00:52:13,750 or two where attendance falls off and things are bad. 960 00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:16,590 I mean, it's not going to affect that much, but if it has an 961 00:52:16,590 --> 00:52:19,590 impact and certainly you can't allow that to to sustain. 962 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,080 So to answer Kathy Amos's question, should I watch the IU 963 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,120 football game on Saturday and if so, why? 964 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:32,040 Look, yes, I think you should. I think ultimately you have to. 965 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,800 I try to watch every game, not just because I do the podcast, 966 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,960 but because I really do honestly look for improvement. 967 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,200 I really do look for where is Indiana getting better at 968 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,160 certain aspects of the game. Some of it's incremental, some 969 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,490 of it is hard to find. But I think it's an important 970 00:52:50,490 --> 00:52:54,850 process to go through if you're going to take the football team 971 00:52:54,850 --> 00:52:58,010 seriously. And I think that IU as a 972 00:52:58,010 --> 00:53:01,450 program, maybe not. This year's team desperately 973 00:53:01,450 --> 00:53:04,290 needs people to take it seriously and it's something 974 00:53:04,290 --> 00:53:06,010 that frankly didn't happen historically. 975 00:53:07,450 --> 00:53:09,570 People didn't take the football program seriously. 976 00:53:09,570 --> 00:53:13,530 And to some degree, it's why Indiana football overall has 977 00:53:13,530 --> 00:53:17,340 struggled for as long as it has. Because fans would just as soon 978 00:53:17,340 --> 00:53:19,460 throw their hands up and say I'm done with IU football. 979 00:53:19,460 --> 00:53:23,260 Then they would sit there and watch every play of of games 980 00:53:23,260 --> 00:53:25,820 that are not fun to watch. But I think you have to then 981 00:53:25,820 --> 00:53:29,460 turn around and do what you're doing, which is filling my not, 982 00:53:29,540 --> 00:53:32,860 you know, filling the Crimson Cast account with questions 983 00:53:32,860 --> 00:53:35,500 about why is football bad, Why can't they do something about 984 00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:37,140 the coaching staff, all of these things. 985 00:53:37,420 --> 00:53:40,700 That's, I think that's important, you know? 986 00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:44,620 And the only thing that's really going to make IU football better 987 00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:48,400 is 2 things really Money and people caring. 988 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,760 And the latter has been, I would argue, probably in shorter 989 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,280 supply than the former over the course of the history of the 990 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,680 program. And it's not just IU to blame. 991 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,560 It's also fans in terms, and this is where I'm not blaming 992 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:09,700 fans, but because IU, you know, there's there's a chicken or egg 993 00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:11,460 thing and a lot of times we'll hear people say we don't. 994 00:54:11,460 --> 00:54:12,220 Why? You know what? 995 00:54:12,220 --> 00:54:14,580 Fans need to come to the games more fans can't leave at 996 00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:16,420 halftime. Well, that's where the football 997 00:54:16,420 --> 00:54:19,860 program and the teams have to give the fans a reason to stay, 998 00:54:19,860 --> 00:54:21,420 have to give the fans a reason to cheer. 999 00:54:21,940 --> 00:54:25,860 But I do think that even in in potentially dark situations like 1000 00:54:25,980 --> 00:54:28,780 Indiana's in right now, you need to watch all the games, watch, 1001 00:54:28,780 --> 00:54:30,500 watch everything, make yourself do it. 1002 00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:33,940 Because that that should galvanized you into talking 1003 00:54:33,940 --> 00:54:36,660 about it and and being like, wow, we really need to be better 1004 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,360 as a program than we are right now. 1005 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,440 And you know, I look, the Rutgers game is probably the 1006 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,720 second most winnable game left on the schedule besides Michigan 1007 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:49,000 State and the season's still not over. 1008 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:52,520 And as as critical as we've been about the football program, the 1009 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:57,760 reality is as weird as as as unlikely as it is and as strange 1010 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,360 as this sounds, Indiana is still in striking distance of a bowl 1011 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,100 at This was my friend and the the field broadcaster Griffin 1012 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:09,260 Gonzalez was trying to convince me this the other day. 1013 00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:10,540 You know, you got Rutgers at home. 1014 00:55:10,980 --> 00:55:13,580 Wisconsin just lost their starting quarterback to a broken 1015 00:55:13,580 --> 00:55:15,860 hand and hasn't exactly looked gangbusters. 1016 00:55:16,180 --> 00:55:18,740 You're on the road at Illinois, who's very schizophrenic. 1017 00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:21,980 You've got Michigan State at home, who's awful, and you've 1018 00:55:21,980 --> 00:55:24,900 got Purdue on the road. That's five out of your last six 1019 00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:28,660 games are winnable. And that's why I think that this 1020 00:55:28,660 --> 00:55:31,340 Rutgers game is going to be important to watch because that 1021 00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:35,380 is a game that will really, I think, tell us once and for all 1022 00:55:36,190 --> 00:55:39,150 if there's fight left in this team, and we talked about this a 1023 00:55:39,150 --> 00:55:42,910 couple of weeks ago, if I think it was an anticipation of the IT 1024 00:55:42,910 --> 00:55:43,830 might have been the Michigan game. 1025 00:55:43,830 --> 00:55:45,750 I think we talked about it before the Maryland game too. 1026 00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:50,030 Do we see fight out of this Indiana team or do they just 1027 00:55:50,030 --> 00:55:52,870 roll over and and unfortunately in both of those games they just 1028 00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:55,950 rolled over. They can't roll over against 1029 00:55:55,950 --> 00:55:58,590 Rutgers, that this is a game Indiana's got to win. 1030 00:55:58,910 --> 00:56:01,190 This is a game Indiana needs to come out and try to establish 1031 00:56:01,190 --> 00:56:03,910 itself in. Are they capable of doing that? 1032 00:56:04,110 --> 00:56:06,630 Is the coaching staff capable of putting together a game plan 1033 00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:10,310 that can out scheme Greg Schiano, I I don't know. 1034 00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:14,310 I at this point I would doubt it, but I also will be watching 1035 00:56:14,310 --> 00:56:19,670 because I think it'll help to dictate a lot of what we see for 1036 00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:23,350 the rest of the season based upon what we see in this Rutgers 1037 00:56:23,350 --> 00:56:25,190 game. Because homecoming against the 1038 00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:28,190 Rutgers team that the last time they were in the building beat 1039 00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:31,260 Indiana 38 to three. You know, you let Rutgers 1040 00:56:31,260 --> 00:56:34,740 overcome a 14 point deficit last year on the road and you let 1041 00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:37,860 them win. This is the type of game where 1042 00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:41,220 if Indiana's got any juice left, this is where the juice has got 1043 00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:45,700 to get squeezed. Mike Harkness again asked a 1044 00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:47,980 buyout question, which we kind of already answered. 1045 00:56:50,460 --> 00:56:54,300 Let's see one more question And then I want to wrap this up 1046 00:56:54,300 --> 00:56:56,060 because we wanted to keep this one to about an hour. 1047 00:56:56,060 --> 00:56:57,740 A lot of questions here, obviously. 1048 00:56:59,250 --> 00:57:03,650 Let's go with let's go with this question from Buff Komodo 1049 00:57:03,650 --> 00:57:05,530 because there's some more football specific questions that 1050 00:57:05,530 --> 00:57:08,090 I will try to get to when we do our football preview either 1051 00:57:08,090 --> 00:57:11,290 tomorrow or Friday. Buff Komodo as coaching salaries 1052 00:57:11,290 --> 00:57:13,450 across the board seem to have ballooned, particularly when it 1053 00:57:13,450 --> 00:57:16,490 comes to buyouts. Is there a future we're either 1054 00:57:16,490 --> 00:57:19,090 begin to recede or are we looking at how coaching 1055 00:57:19,090 --> 00:57:22,450 contracts will be for the future, 10 years and more down 1056 00:57:22,450 --> 00:57:24,850 the road? I mean, it's a great question 1057 00:57:25,330 --> 00:57:31,770 that's really hard to answer. My guess is that it is entirely 1058 00:57:31,770 --> 00:57:35,770 going to be predicated on what happens with college athletes, 1059 00:57:36,850 --> 00:57:40,650 if they become, if they become unionized or if they 1060 00:57:40,650 --> 00:57:42,850 collectively bargain, if there's revenue sharing. 1061 00:57:42,850 --> 00:57:46,010 And I think all of that is bound to happen at some point, based 1062 00:57:46,010 --> 00:57:50,810 upon my read of the industry, I think that coaching compensation 1063 00:57:50,810 --> 00:57:53,450 will start to fall. One of the reasons why college 1064 00:57:53,450 --> 00:57:57,450 coaches make so much money is it's a captive market. 1065 00:57:58,530 --> 00:58:01,450 You have to have a good coach, as I think we've seen. 1066 00:58:01,930 --> 00:58:05,730 If you're going to be successful as a program and there aren't as 1067 00:58:05,730 --> 00:58:09,730 many good college coaches as, yeah, it's kind of like NFL 1068 00:58:09,730 --> 00:58:10,730 quarterbacks. The reason? 1069 00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:12,370 The. The really good ones make so 1070 00:58:12,370 --> 00:58:14,490 much money is aren't very many good ones. 1071 00:58:15,370 --> 00:58:21,610 And so I look at both contracts and buyouts, and I say, I don't 1072 00:58:21,610 --> 00:58:25,220 know if we're ever going to recede from the top. 1073 00:58:25,220 --> 00:58:27,660 Coach is making around $10 million a year, which is what's 1074 00:58:27,660 --> 00:58:32,140 going on right now. But I do think we might 1075 00:58:32,140 --> 00:58:35,540 significantly slow the growth of that because the the growth 1076 00:58:35,540 --> 00:58:39,540 happened very quickly and a lot of that growth happened because 1077 00:58:39,540 --> 00:58:44,500 colleges and universities have been desperately trying to claim 1078 00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:47,220 that they don't make money. So how do you do that? 1079 00:58:47,220 --> 00:58:48,860 Well, you spend all the money that you make. 1080 00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:51,780 You spend all that revenue, you know, you spend some of it on 1081 00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:54,780 facilities, You spend some of it on compliance staff, you spend 1082 00:58:54,780 --> 00:58:57,260 some of it on travel. You spend a lot of it on 1083 00:58:57,260 --> 00:59:00,340 coaches, you know, and it's why you've got coordinators making 1084 00:59:00,340 --> 00:59:03,500 $2,000,000 a year. The NFL coaches and coordinators 1085 00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:04,500 aren't making that kind of money. 1086 00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:07,460 And that's supposed to be the pinnacle of the profession, but 1087 00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:08,940 it isn't. Because if you think about the 1088 00:59:08,940 --> 00:59:15,220 NFL, the NFL has to split its revenue more or less 5050 1089 00:59:15,220 --> 00:59:18,340 between players and the teams. Well, that isn't happening at 1090 00:59:18,340 --> 00:59:21,650 the college level. So of course the coaches are 1091 00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:25,450 going to make significantly more money, but I think that will. 1092 00:59:25,570 --> 00:59:27,290 I think it has a better chance of receding. 1093 00:59:27,290 --> 00:59:30,490 And I think we'll certainly top off if suddenly you got to start 1094 00:59:30,490 --> 00:59:35,450 paying your players and you put all that into the mix. 1095 00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:38,650 And you know, I think that's going to change the marketplace 1096 00:59:38,650 --> 00:59:44,210 somewhat. I also think, as you know, if 1097 00:59:44,210 --> 00:59:47,010 you take college sports as a whole, if there's this 1098 00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:51,800 separation between the top half of the FBS subdivision and the 1099 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,480 lower half of the FBS subdivision, I think there'll be 1100 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,160 some market corrections there too. 1101 00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,720 Because ultimately a lot of the coaches in that upper level are 1102 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:06,120 going to be making more money. But you know, given the 1103 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,480 realities of what it would cost to pay an entire football team a 1104 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,840 nominal amount of money, and if you throw in Title 9, you know 1105 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,800 you're either going to have to take varsity sports off the 1106 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,320 table entirely. You know, so maybe you've got 1107 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,800 five or six varsity sports, not the 24 that Indiana's got or not 1108 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:29,040 the 36 that Ohio State's got. Instead you you know, you have a 1109 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,720 much smaller number. You either have to do that or if 1110 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,240 you're going to maintain all those varsity sports for Title 9 1111 01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,240 purposes, the money cuts are going to have to come from 1112 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,640 somewhere and you know coaches are are ripe for that. 1113 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,960 I also the other thing about this I think is going to be 1114 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:48,770 interesting is so much of being a college coach has been you are 1115 01:00:48,770 --> 01:00:52,210 essentially you're not just the coach, you're also the GM, 1116 01:00:52,210 --> 01:00:53,930 you're the lead recruiter, you're doing all of these 1117 01:00:53,930 --> 01:00:56,290 different tasks. I think we're going to start 1118 01:00:56,290 --> 01:00:58,730 seeing situations. I think we should see situations 1119 01:00:59,330 --> 01:01:03,730 done properly where you've got colleges and universities hiring 1120 01:01:03,810 --> 01:01:07,770 GMs essentially for their programs, which now lessens the 1121 01:01:07,770 --> 01:01:10,050 impact of the coach because the coach is coaching. 1122 01:01:10,050 --> 01:01:12,410 The coach is not necessarily having to go out and recruit all 1123 01:01:12,410 --> 01:01:14,450 the players. Isn't responsible for the 1124 01:01:14,450 --> 01:01:16,530 contracts. Isn't responsible for the nil 1125 01:01:16,530 --> 01:01:20,260 stuff. It's the coaches that are 1126 01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:21,620 coaching. Kind of like what you see in the 1127 01:01:21,620 --> 01:01:24,980 NFL, you know, and it used to be that coaches, you know a lot of 1128 01:01:24,980 --> 01:01:27,220 coaches wanted to be the GM as well as the coach. 1129 01:01:27,820 --> 01:01:32,860 And what we saw consistently was that it was too big of a job to 1130 01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:35,140 have a coach be AGM and a head coach. 1131 01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:43,380 And that led to a essentially A winnowing of what the roles 1132 01:01:43,380 --> 01:01:45,750 were. And that meant that the money 1133 01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:46,950 got spread around a little bit more. 1134 01:01:47,310 --> 01:01:48,990 I did want to get to 1 more question because I thought 1135 01:01:48,990 --> 01:01:53,470 Patrick, who always asks some pretty good questions, had a 1136 01:01:53,470 --> 01:01:56,190 couple of questions on this. But I want to. 1137 01:01:56,190 --> 01:01:58,750 There's one I'm going to focus on, which is my thoughts on 1138 01:01:58,750 --> 01:02:01,030 investments in IU football to prepare for the future. 1139 01:02:01,710 --> 01:02:06,070 IU seems to be focused on game day experience with their survey 1140 01:02:06,070 --> 01:02:08,790 this summer. This is Patrick riding fancy 1141 01:02:08,790 --> 01:02:11,660 coaching and contracts needing resolution, some safe 1142 01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:13,460 facilities. Obviously there's no one 1143 01:02:13,460 --> 01:02:16,180 solution but what is my three to five year plan. 1144 01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:23,580 So I think ultimately you know I've I've worked in sports for a 1145 01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:25,820 long time. I've covered sports for a long 1146 01:02:25,820 --> 01:02:28,260 time. There's absolute like this is 1147 01:02:28,260 --> 01:02:31,780 not minor league sports in minor, you know in in minor 1148 01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:38,960 league sports the ethos of the front office is we can't rely on 1149 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,400 the on field product bringing in the audience. 1150 01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,720 So instead we have to make the experience better. 1151 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,920 We have to make the experience something that the people want 1152 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,520 to come back for over and over again. 1153 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,240 I don't think that works with college football. 1154 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,880 It doesn't work with college basketball either. 1155 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,240 People don't want to go for the experience. 1156 01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,960 People don't want to go to hear what's on the PA. 1157 01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:02,680 People don't want to go and sit in comfortable seats. 1158 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,960 People don't want to go. I mean that that they will, they 1159 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,800 like those things. But ultimately the most 1160 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,200 important thing by far and the most important thing you can 1161 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,720 invest in is the core product and it you just look at. 1162 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,280 I mean people have a lot of different thoughts on Colorado. 1163 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,200 Colorado, I know, lost last week to Stanford and and that was a 1164 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,170 shock to, you know, to to them. Certainly a lot of people used 1165 01:03:25,170 --> 01:03:27,850 it to take shots at Deion Sanders and I understand why. 1166 01:03:27,850 --> 01:03:31,170 But realistically there's an energy and a vitality around 1167 01:03:31,170 --> 01:03:34,850 that football program now and it has nothing to do with the game 1168 01:03:34,850 --> 01:03:37,170 day experience and has everything to do with the fact 1169 01:03:37,170 --> 01:03:39,010 that they're winning football games and they're playing 1170 01:03:39,010 --> 01:03:43,530 entertaining football. That to me has to be what you 1171 01:03:43,530 --> 01:03:46,970 focus on and I think for IU because there really isn't a 1172 01:03:46,970 --> 01:03:50,370 culture of winning, entertaining football. 1173 01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:52,210 There's no real program identity. 1174 01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:55,290 You know, you think about and some of this is coach driven 1175 01:03:55,290 --> 01:03:57,690 obviously and and and there's dangers in changing it. 1176 01:03:57,690 --> 01:04:00,290 Wisconsin's trying to change their program identity right now 1177 01:04:00,290 --> 01:04:01,810 and they're going through some growing pains. 1178 01:04:02,330 --> 01:04:10,490 But are you just that you know you you have to be more focused 1179 01:04:11,090 --> 01:04:15,370 on the on field experience that the fans are watching. 1180 01:04:15,370 --> 01:04:18,250 You have to be focused on what people are seeing on television 1181 01:04:19,250 --> 01:04:22,920 and most of the other stuff, people will sit in the 1182 01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:27,880 dilapidated stadium without dated, you know, urinals and and 1183 01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,520 concessions if there's a good football program. 1184 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,680 And then from there you grow things around it. 1185 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:35,720 And I think that's got to be the key. 1186 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,440 I mean, you know if Tom Allen is somehow able to pull the program 1187 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,960 out of the the flat spin that it's in right now and figure out 1188 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:44,880 a way to get them back to respectability. 1189 01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,270 I don't know honestly if if I I don't know if that's a 1190 01:04:49,270 --> 01:04:52,390 recoverable relationship. Even if Alan, if they rally and 1191 01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:54,950 win five games this year and they get to a bowl next year, I 1192 01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:57,150 don't know if people ever going to fully trust Tom Allen again 1193 01:04:57,950 --> 01:05:00,190 and I certainly. With the the direction that 1194 01:05:00,190 --> 01:05:02,590 Allen's tried to take his offense, which really does need 1195 01:05:02,590 --> 01:05:06,790 to be entertaining for IU fans, I don't know that we'll ever get 1196 01:05:06,790 --> 01:05:08,870 to that because Allen seems very disinterested in the 1197 01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:14,270 entertaining style of football. So I think you have to, if 1198 01:05:14,270 --> 01:05:18,210 you're IU my my three to five year plan, it'd be more A5 year 1199 01:05:18,210 --> 01:05:19,410 plan because it's going to take a while. 1200 01:05:19,810 --> 01:05:23,970 You have to get a coach who a can coach at this level. 1201 01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:27,970 Whenever that happens, it's next year, two years, three years, 1202 01:05:27,970 --> 01:05:34,810 four years who can get a fan base that is not predisposed to 1203 01:05:34,810 --> 01:05:37,210 being interested in their own football program, interested in 1204 01:05:37,210 --> 01:05:39,490 their football program. You have to give the fan base 1205 01:05:39,490 --> 01:05:43,930 some easy WS. You know, this is where you you, 1206 01:05:44,010 --> 01:05:47,250 you, you under schedule. It's basically what it's what 1207 01:05:47,250 --> 01:05:48,890 people made fun of James Franklin for saying. 1208 01:05:48,890 --> 01:05:51,850 But he's absolutely right. You under schedule to get wins, 1209 01:05:51,850 --> 01:05:55,290 to get to bowl games because you have to maintain some level of 1210 01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:58,250 of competitiveness and enjoyment for the fans. 1211 01:05:58,250 --> 01:06:00,170 And if you don't have that, you really don't have anything else 1212 01:06:00,170 --> 01:06:03,930 in this business, you know? And that's the thing about the 1213 01:06:03,930 --> 01:06:07,050 20 tens. IU played entertaining football 1214 01:06:07,050 --> 01:06:10,090 for most of that decade and it's certainly a lot more 1215 01:06:10,090 --> 01:06:15,010 entertaining than the the 20 O OS were and certainly more 1216 01:06:15,010 --> 01:06:17,490 entertaining than what the 20 twenties have been thus far, 1217 01:06:17,490 --> 01:06:19,650 except for the year that nobody got to see the team play in 1218 01:06:19,650 --> 01:06:25,290 person. So that is that a plan. 1219 01:06:25,730 --> 01:06:28,090 You know a lot of people have been like, well, coaches won't 1220 01:06:28,090 --> 01:06:30,370 come to IU, they will if you pay them enough money. 1221 01:06:30,370 --> 01:06:33,330 And I think you have to understand as much as I and I'll 1222 01:06:33,450 --> 01:06:35,890 I'll keep saying this and people can disagree with me as much as 1223 01:06:35,890 --> 01:06:40,730 I think IU has stepped up in terms of supporting financially 1224 01:06:40,730 --> 01:06:43,850 the football program since 2008 or so. 1225 01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:47,900 And and as much as they have designated resources and paid 1226 01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:52,740 money realistically you're you're essentially now having to 1227 01:06:52,740 --> 01:06:57,860 compensate for the lack of investment that was shown in the 1228 01:06:57,860 --> 01:07:01,380 90s and 2000s and really going all the way back. 1229 01:07:01,380 --> 01:07:05,580 I mean you know historically the the the entire pre World War 2 1230 01:07:05,580 --> 01:07:08,460 era even though Indiana had some success there just wasn't the 1231 01:07:08,460 --> 01:07:10,100 level of investment in the program. 1232 01:07:10,420 --> 01:07:12,860 The post World War 2 era was disastrous. 1233 01:07:13,580 --> 01:07:15,420 You know that? Take the Rose Bowl year out of 1234 01:07:15,420 --> 01:07:16,540 it. I mean, that stretch of time 1235 01:07:16,540 --> 01:07:23,820 from 1946 until 1978 was about as bad as you can consistently 1236 01:07:23,820 --> 01:07:27,900 be as a football program. And Indiana is still digging 1237 01:07:27,900 --> 01:07:31,900 itself out of that and still digging itself out of the period 1238 01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:34,540 that started with Cam Cameron getting hired and ended with, 1239 01:07:34,780 --> 01:07:36,620 you know, essentially Terry Hepner getting hired. 1240 01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:44,090 It just takes a lot of effort to to dig out of that and I think 1241 01:07:44,090 --> 01:07:46,410 Indiana's going to have to overpay significantly to get 1242 01:07:46,410 --> 01:07:48,730 what they need to get things set. 1243 01:07:49,410 --> 01:07:52,130 I I think athletics, you know, is probably looking at it and 1244 01:07:52,130 --> 01:07:54,570 saying, well, since we can't count on that, we've got to try 1245 01:07:54,570 --> 01:07:55,890 to make the game day experience better. 1246 01:07:55,890 --> 01:07:57,410 And I think that that's also true. 1247 01:07:57,690 --> 01:07:59,210 But I think that, you know, there have been some 1248 01:07:59,210 --> 01:08:01,610 improvements in some of the game day experience lately. 1249 01:08:01,970 --> 01:08:04,770 Ultimately though, what people want is they want to enjoy 1250 01:08:04,770 --> 01:08:07,930 watching football. They want to enjoy the team that 1251 01:08:07,930 --> 01:08:09,970 they root for. They want to have a reason to 1252 01:08:09,970 --> 01:08:14,060 root for the team and that to me, I feel like with the biggest 1253 01:08:14,220 --> 01:08:18,060 sorrow I have about IU football is that it felt like they've 1254 01:08:18,060 --> 01:08:22,420 finally built that up. And by 2015, then that whole 1255 01:08:22,420 --> 01:08:27,020 stretch, that six year stretch from 2015 to 2021, even though 1256 01:08:27,020 --> 01:08:30,740 it wasn't perfect and even though IU lost a lot of games at 1257 01:08:30,819 --> 01:08:33,420 at various times, they were competitive. 1258 01:08:33,700 --> 01:08:36,899 They were in games even against higher level competition. 1259 01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:39,779 And it was a fun program to watch. 1260 01:08:39,899 --> 01:08:43,700 And I think the, you know, what we're all getting at this point 1261 01:08:43,700 --> 01:08:47,540 is the unfortunate culture shock of that disappearing and being 1262 01:08:47,540 --> 01:08:54,020 replaced by not just losing but unentertaining losing. 1263 01:08:54,580 --> 01:08:56,939 And I think that's got to be the top thing. 1264 01:08:56,939 --> 01:08:58,819 Like you, you have to have someone who can bring in the 1265 01:08:58,819 --> 01:09:03,220 right types of players, who can develop players and who can 1266 01:09:03,420 --> 01:09:06,840 create an environment where people want to be involved in 1267 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:11,200 the program and where they have trust again in the coaching 1268 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,760 staff. And I think that and this goes 1269 01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:18,760 back to the extension question from earlier, I think that had 1270 01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:21,760 transpired here. I think Tom Allen had built a 1271 01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,000 huge amount of trust with the fan base, you know by the end of 1272 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:30,920 the 2020 season and it has been systematically just lost through 1273 01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:36,819 action and inaction and and essentially an undefendable set 1274 01:09:37,180 --> 01:09:40,380 of outcomes that have occurred over the course of the last 2 1275 01:09:40,380 --> 01:09:42,859 1/2 seasons. And so Patrick, that's I don't 1276 01:09:42,859 --> 01:09:45,340 know if that answers your question adequately but 1277 01:09:46,180 --> 01:09:48,939 certainly I've always said like you have to get the on field 1278 01:09:48,939 --> 01:09:51,300 product right first. You cannot expect the fans to 1279 01:09:51,300 --> 01:09:53,540 show up waiting for the product to arrive. 1280 01:09:53,939 --> 01:09:56,380 You have to have the product 1st and then the fans will come, 1281 01:09:56,420 --> 01:10:00,780 which is what they did from 2015 to 2020 and go back. 1282 01:10:00,780 --> 01:10:03,800 Look at those 2021 crowds. You know that Cincinnati crowd 1283 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,440 was was it was packed, students filled the student section, 1284 01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:09,680 Michigan State that year, students filled the student 1285 01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,320 section and even last year students were there. 1286 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,080 Alumni started to drift away. Now everybody's starting to 1287 01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,440 drift away and that to me you're only going to correct that if 1288 01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:22,920 you have a product, whether it's under Tom Allen or whether it's 1289 01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,440 under somebody else, that brings people back in. 1290 01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,000 And at this point, the trajectory doesn't look good. 1291 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,240 The nice thing is Indiana, as I've said before, is in a 1292 01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:34,440 position where nothing is unrecoverable. 1293 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,280 It might just take a few years to recover it. 1294 01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,120 So I guess a quasi, either pessimistic or optimistic, no, 1295 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,280 depending on how you want to take that. 1296 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,320 Anyway, we've gone on for too long with this one. 1297 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,280 Hopefully this was a an enjoyable Q&A for you. 1298 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:48,520 We'll do another one of these soon. 1299 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,080 Let me know if you've got any other questions. 1300 01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,120 You can always hit us up on the sub stack and leave comments 1301 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:56,480 there. We try to respond to those more 1302 01:10:56,480 --> 01:11:00,580 on an individual basis. Our thanks to our friends at the 1303 01:11:00,580 --> 01:11:03,700 Back Home network. Our thanks to home field 1304 01:11:03,700 --> 01:11:05,060 apparel. Be sure to stop by the Graduate 1305 01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:08,380 Hotel this Friday and Saturday. Check them out in person here in 1306 01:11:08,380 --> 01:11:11,020 Bloomington. We'll be back with our IU 1307 01:11:11,020 --> 01:11:13,620 Rutgers football preview coming up in the next couple of days. 1308 01:11:13,620 --> 01:11:16,700 So keep your eye out for that. For all those people. 1309 01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:18,540 I'm Galen Clavio. Thanks for joining us, folks. 1310 01:11:18,860 --> 01:11:20,140 We'll catch you on the flip side. 1311 01:11:20,140 --> 01:11:21,820 Bring back the Bison. That's all everybody.