1 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,040 You're listening to the back home network presented by Home 2 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:49,520 Field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cask. 3 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,640 Alan Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you. 4 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,960 Good evening good evening Josh Wilson. 5 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,960 Good evening, all of you Already in the crowd. 6 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,680 We we said we would get something pulled together. 7 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,040 We got Scott out of the vineyard. 8 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,360 And how are the grapes today, Scott? 9 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,360 Everybody's curious. We're we're doing, we're doing 10 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,360 bourbon tonight, man. We're doing a little 4 Roses 11 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,680 small Batch. Love it the. 12 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Whole thing, but we have a new coach. 13 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,640 As a chronic Hoosier would tweet out, we have a smoke coming from 14 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,280 Assembly Hall White. Smoke. 15 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:18,680 Yes, white smoke it. Happened. 16 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,560 It happened quick, man Real. Quick, it did indeed real. 17 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,160 Quick, let's go ahead and do our last four coach preview. 18 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,960 Yeah. And well, the amazing the film, 19 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,320 Larry's thing about this. So for those of you who watch, 20 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:33,760 and many of you were in the audience for that show that we 21 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,120 did on Sunday night, we after that, Scott and I were like, 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,600 well, we're going to have another week or so. 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,920 We should probably do the coaches that are in the mix now 24 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,240 that we haven't done. And we realized that one of them 25 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,640 was Darren Devries, the new head coach of IU. 26 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,240 So we had this whole plan that tomorrow night we were gonna get 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,560 together and do a pod where we previewed Darren Devries. 28 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,280 Man, that would have looked prescient. 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,400 They were. While those guys are right on 30 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,760 it, they knew exactly what was going on and we didn't, we did 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,960 the the, the route that it's, it's out. 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,040 We're not part of Dolson's four people, right? 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,960 We're not part of the inner circle. 34 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,600 Unlike, unlike some other members of the media 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,880 establishment, we never claimed to know anything. 36 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,280 And as it was, it was, it was demonstrated no one knew 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,040 anything, right, right. So it is what it is. 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,520 But no, it's great to see everybody in the comments. 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,920 Feel free to leave your comments in the chat, we'll try to pop 40 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,920 some of them up throughout the course of the show, but for 41 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:32,280 those of you who are listening afterwards, we are podcasting at 42 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,360 9:45 PM Eastern Time on Tuesday, March 18th. 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,960 Indiana has a new head basketball coach, Darren 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,560 Devries, the now former head coach at West Virginia and prior 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,160 to that was the head coach at Drake and prior to that was a 46 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,160 long time assistant at Creighton. 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,240 We're going to talk all about the higher. 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,160 We're going to talk about some of the other items that are that 49 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,960 are out there. I know there's a lot of, I'll 50 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,640 say this, there's mixed emotions amongst a lot of people in the 51 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:03,920 IU fanbase. Scott and I have not talked 52 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,120 about how each of us feel about this to each other. 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,360 So you're going to get those feelings live. 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,360 I know that you guys love that. And we're going to talk about 55 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,480 the implications. There's already stuff happening 56 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,280 which I think is fascinating. So we're going to talk about 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,200 that. We'll talk about some of the 58 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,800 portal stuff that's already taking place. 59 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,320 First of all, just a quick reminder were brought to you by 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,520 Home Field Apparel, your place to go for the finest in college 61 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,760 fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs. 62 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,480 I am certain there will be a Devries themed T-shirt coming up 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,680 soon. It doesn't surprise me at all 64 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,200 that that the home field would get something cooked up and you 65 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,200 know what? But the end of the day, home 66 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,760 Field apparel, they they've got IU stuff, they'll have more IU 67 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,520 stuff with debris coming in and you should go over there and 68 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,440 check them out. Use the code home 23, get 15% 69 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,200 off your first order. And we look forward to all of 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,200 the fun stuff that Home Field comes up with as we go through 71 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,000 the NCAA tournament. So head over to home field 72 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,600 apparel.com, check them out on the socials as well. 73 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,680 And just a quick reminder elbow subscribe on the YouTube 74 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,760 channel. You'd if if you had, you would 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,040 have gotten the notification that we were going to go live a 76 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,240 solid 5 minutes ahead of when we posted it on Twitter. 77 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,760 But back home network search for that on YouTube and we would 78 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,680 love to have you in the over 7300 people who have joined the 79 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,160 YouTube subscriber channel. All right, Scott, we haven't 80 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,120 talked, right? Let's talk about it. 81 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,120 I want to get your thoughts first. 82 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,440 What is your reaction to the hire? 83 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,440 So it's funny, I, I had a meeting today from like 4:00 to 84 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,360 6:00 and I was just, I was off the radar. 85 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,520 I couldn't have my phone made and my phone just starts, my 86 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,640 watcher's blowing up with like just text and text and text. 87 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,880 And I'm like, this cannot be happening right now, but it's 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,240 happening as I was driving away from that meeting and started 89 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,600 getting into it. You know, I will just completely 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,400 be honest. At first I was like man. 91 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,040 That. That can't have been our first 92 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,160 choice. Like after all we had went 93 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,800 through and all we talked about also a little bit like I can't 94 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,240 believe you and I didn't talk about it on the podcast. 95 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,040 It it was a little bit of disappointment probably based on 96 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,000 me being over optimistic for who I, you know, the names that I 97 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,480 was thinking of in my head and all these things I was going 98 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,800 through and I but to be honest, I hadn't fully thought about 99 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,840 debris much at all. And when you look at it on its 100 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,120 surface, you know, it's like, man, I didn't make the 101 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,680 tournament last year. I'm like, that's who we're 102 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,240 hiring. Like somebody just went, you 103 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,040 know, 19 and 13. But I'm I'm, I'm coming around 104 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,840 as I most IU fans should. I will say this, and this is 105 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,680 probably like the not the fun podcasting answer and not the 106 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,800 fun hot take, but this is my real honest opinion. 107 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,440 We're going to know in three years. 108 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,800 And, and what I mean by that, I was kind of looking back, like 109 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,720 if you go back and look at, you know, Nate Oates before he went 110 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,360 to Alabama, you look at it, it's like, well, he missed the 111 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,200 tournament. One of the two, you know, one of 112 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,920 the four years in Buffalo, it made it three of the four years. 113 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,880 You can, it's like a Rorschach test. 114 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,360 You can make it that if, if Nate Oates sucked at Alabama, you 115 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,360 would look at that and and be like, man, man, that team played 116 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,680 super fast, a little bit loose with the ball and like they 117 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,720 couldn't really do what they needed to do in the tournament. 118 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,800 Didn't make it a second year. You go back and look at it now, 119 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,040 it's like, man, he made it three out of four years because you 120 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,240 know, he was awesome. Same thing with Dan Hurley. 121 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Like, man took him, took him four years to get to the 122 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,920 tournament in Rhode Island. Like, if he's such a damn good 123 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,600 coach, why did it take so long? But now you look back and it's 124 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,480 like, man, he took over a crummy Rhode Island program and got 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,000 them to the tournament in two years. 126 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,560 I, I feel the same way about debris and that the answer is 127 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,040 we'll know in three years. And in three years we'll look 128 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,240 back and see one of two things either, you know, man, this is a 129 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,880 guy who took Drake to, you know, the tournament three of his last 130 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,280 four years, similar to Nate Oates and and took over a West 131 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,920 Virginia team that was Scott Check's notes 9 and 22 the year 132 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,240 before he got there and got them. 133 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:05,400 You know, you could say they missed the tournament. 134 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,120 You could also say there's an asterisk because they made 99% 135 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:10,800 of the bracket matrix tournaments, but I mean like 136 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,800 right on the edge. And so if he's great, you'll 137 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,600 look back and back. Of course, the guy turns stuff 138 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,080 around quickly. If it doesn't work, you could 139 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,280 look back and be like, man, it took him a while to get it going 140 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,080 at Drake. And it's a guy who went to West 141 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,320 Virginia and couldn't even make a tournament his first year. 142 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,800 So I know that's not the Super hottest take. 143 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,720 I'm much more on the positive angle now, and we'll get to 144 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,080 that. But as I look at it, you know, 145 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,000 honestly, at this point, I don't care about winning the press 146 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,400 conference. I don't care about, you know, 147 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,600 other fans and other in the Big 10 being like, oh, Indiana, 148 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,280 screw whatever they can think whatever they want. 149 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,440 We will know in two or three years. 150 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,520 I hope that it really works out. And if it doesn't, you know, 151 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,800 we've we've been here before, we can do it again. 152 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,720 But all that said, I am definitely turning the corner 153 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,600 and I'm way more positive than I was even an hour or two ago. 154 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,080 Yeah. You know, it's one of those 155 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,280 things where I'd say about a week ago we started to see 156 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,520 Devries's name pop up in relation to things related to 157 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,920 this search is a possibility. And it was a name that frankly, 158 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,720 we should have done a recap on earlier and we didn't just 159 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,720 because like, we wanted to cover some of the bigger names 1st. 160 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,360 And we wanted to cover, you know, names that were popping up 161 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,160 regularly in the search early on, you know, in terms of what 162 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,920 was being reported. So you know you're going to 163 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,840 cover Mick Cronin and you're going to cover Mark Biington, 164 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,679 people like that, but. We had to hit Lawrence, Frank 165 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,919 and Mike. We did and Mike and Lori, yes, 166 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,840 absolutely. But when, you know, I would say 167 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,320 about 7 or 8 days ago, it, it started to feel like there was 168 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,520 going to be potentially some momentum here if IU didn't, you 169 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,360 know, hit their top choices. And I and I agree with that 170 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:56,200 tweet that that Father Kavanaugh put in the chat about this 171 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,800 wasn't Indiana's like first choice or second or third. 172 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,240 But the more I dug into debris and this was before the hire, I 173 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,080 think you and I even talked about it as like, I think this 174 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,800 guy actually is a legitimately good hire. 175 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,320 Potentially. I've had people from other 176 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,680 schools, people that know basketball be like, wow, that's 177 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:16,120 a really great hire for you guys. 178 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,880 And you know, we'll see if it's actually a great hire. 179 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,920 But I had started to warm up on him as a possibility among that 180 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,840 kind of like next tier of coaches. 181 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,280 If you took out obviously the the moon shot candidates, as our 182 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,280 friends at X's and Joe's talked about, if you took out the, you 183 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,200 know, the Brad Stevens is there the Jay Wrights or, or even like 184 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,400 the Scott Drews or TJ Otzel burgers, It's like, all right, 185 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,520 what's the next grouping of candidates? 186 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,120 And I think ultimately, when you look at debris, there's a 187 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,480 really, really nice record there that I think is to some degree 188 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,320 getting obfuscated by the way that Drake is playing this 189 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,520 season where everybody just assumes, well, hey, you could 190 00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,960 just win a bunch of games at Drake. 191 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:03,360 That's that's no big deal. Our friend Mike Weemuth from the 192 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,880 X's and Joe's podcast, which if you folks love college 193 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,640 basketball, you really need to go watch that. 194 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,320 That's a great show. Listen to that show. 195 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,920 They do a great job of breaking it down. 196 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:17,200 You know, he noted that from 1974 to 2024, you know that that 197 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,280 span of time, Drake outside of the Darian or the Darian Devries 198 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,200 era, by the way, it's Darian Devries apparently not Darian 199 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:26,560 Devries. This is going to take a lot of 200 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,720 getting used to given that there's an extra I in there. 201 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,960 But he noted that I for Indiana, outside of the outside of the 202 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:40,000 Devries era, Drake averages 12.5 wins per season over that span 203 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,880 of time, that 50 years during the Devries era, he averaged 25 204 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,360 wins a game. I mean, that's, that's a, that's 205 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,840 a, a staggering statistic. And, and you go back and you 206 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,320 look, and I mean, they, they had some really interesting coaches. 207 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,280 They had one great year that a lot of college basketball people 208 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,640 remember, which is that one year that Keno Davis took over for 209 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,280 Tom Davis 'cause that was Tom Davis's retirement spot. 210 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,400 And they went 17 and five. They were a five seed. 211 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,000 They lost in the first round. That was the 2008 tournament. 212 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,000 It came out of nowhere. And then Keno Davis left, went 213 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,200 to Providence, and then they had a series of coaches that just 214 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,280 didn't measure up, including Nico Medved, who a lot of people 215 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,720 like, who's a Colorado State right now. 216 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,400 He bounced after a season. And Devries comes in, wins 217 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:29,800 2420262527 and 28 games, makes three tournaments where Drake 218 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,560 had made one in the previous 20 some years. 219 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,200 I had forgotten this until somebody reminded me they had 220 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,560 Miami on the ropes in the 2023 tournament. 221 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,320 The same Miami team that beat Indiana in the second round and 222 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,640 went to the final four. They were up 9 I think with 5 223 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,320 minutes to go and just ran out of gas at the end of the game. 224 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,320 That was a popular upset pick that year. 225 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,680 Goes to West Virginia and you maybe. 226 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,040 Couldn't get over the hump, sorry. 227 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,640 Ultimately true goes to West Virginia, you know, and I saw 228 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,160 some folks looking at the West Virginia season and they're 229 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,240 like, I don't get it. Like West Virginia went 19 and 230 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,040 13 this year. Indiana went 19 and 13. 231 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,960 Why are we hiring a guy that had the same record? 232 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,200 But the difference is like Indiana improved their win total 233 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,880 by zero wins from last year to this year. 234 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,600 And they repeated all the same mistakes in terms of roster 235 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,240 construction, in terms of style. Debris comes into a West 236 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,400 Virginia program that was in absolute shambles of people 237 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,880 forget this. This was a program where Bob 238 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,200 Huggins had gotten fired right at the beginning of the previous 239 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:44,000 season for another DUI. They have an interim coach and 240 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,760 then they have to basically rebuild the roster. 241 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,280 Improves their record by ten wins. 242 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,640 They go from nine wins to 19 and literally got screwed out of the 243 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,640 NCAA tournament because of reasons. 244 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,360 There's there's a significant difference there in terms of of 245 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,520 how I would look at those two performances. 246 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,240 And you know, ultimately when you look at Devries's overall 247 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,120 profile, it's an interesting one because it is a little more 248 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,600 defense oriented than offense oriented, but it's interesting 249 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,880 because he's won with both styles in 2021 coming out of 250 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,720 COVID. They go 26 and five. 251 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,240 They're 33rd in the country in offensive efficiency, and then 252 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,040 they go to the tournament in 23 and 24 at Drake, and they're 253 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,720 40th in defensive efficiency in 2023 with the worst offense, but 254 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,480 then in 2024 they're 40th in offensive efficiency. 255 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,960 I'm really impressed with his ability to kind of switch around 256 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,000 what he does. The one thing his teams 257 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,720 consistently did well at Drake, they didn't do particularly well 258 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,240 this year at West Virginia. But I would look at that as a 259 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,200 bit of an outlier given that it was his first season. 260 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,880 But his team's always shot really well at West Virginia, 261 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,640 excuse me, at Drake, they were, you know, in the top 100, five 262 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,720 of the six years in effective field goal percentage. 263 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,160 While he was there, they shot well from 2. 264 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,080 They shot well from three this year at West Virginia. 265 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,800 They were 44th in the country in three-point attempt percentage, 266 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,120 meaning the number of three-point attempts compared to 267 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,040 their overall offense. So, you know, when I look at at 268 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,800 Darren Devries, he's not the type of coach that's already won 269 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,480 a lot at a high level. And I think that was the kind of 270 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,520 coach that some IU fans and to be honest, you and me both 271 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,600 thought IU should go after. They like, you know, we're like 272 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,160 go after one of the big fish. We don't know the full back 273 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,920 story. I'm sure we will learn the full 274 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:42,440 back story as we go along. But for whatever reason, IU 275 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:43,920 didn't land one of those coaches. 276 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,920 What we talked about, if you go back and listen to the podcast 277 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,640 we did at the very beginning of this coaching search, we talked 278 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,600 about where do coaches come from? 279 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,960 And we talked about how if you look at most of the coaches that 280 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,920 are having a huge level of success at the college level 281 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,840 right now, most of them came from the exact same background 282 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,840 that Darren Devries is coming from. 283 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:09,640 You know, and you can go down the list. 284 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,680 I mean, yes, you can talk about Bruce Pearl had prior success at 285 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,480 a Power 5 conference, but Todd Golden did not. 286 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,760 Todd Golden was at San Francisco, had a good 3-4 year 287 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,880 run, goes to Florida. You know, Nate Oates had a good 288 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,600 four year run at Buffalo. It's it's hilarious. 289 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,440 You mentioned Oates and Hurley. That was the comp I was going to 290 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,400 give. It's like the record that, and 291 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,480 I'm saying Devries is going to turn into Oates or Hurley. 292 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,640 That would be amazing. I'm not saying it's going to 293 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,760 happen, but if you were to look at the record that Devries had 294 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800 at Drake, it's not a whole lot different from the record that 295 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,240 Oates had at Buffalo. It's not a whole lot different 296 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,280 from the record that Hurley had at Rhode Island. 297 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,120 And you kind of go down the list and you say to yourself, well, 298 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,760 what IU hadn't tried up to this point was trying to get a big 299 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,000 fish and bring them in. If that doesn't work, it's not 300 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,880 the end of the world. Because if you look down the 301 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,680 roster of the top teams in college basketball right now, 302 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,600 it's generally filled with two types of of coaches. 303 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,560 It's coaches that were assistants and stepped up into 304 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,080 the head job. And then it's it's coaches that 305 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,440 were at smaller schools, had a good 3456 year run and then step 306 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,000 up. And with this guy, you're 307 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,200 getting a guy that was an assistant coach under Dana 308 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,120 Altman at Creighton and then was an assistant coach under Greg 309 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,840 McDermott at Creighton. That's unusual that a guy would 310 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,240 carry over like that. You're getting a guy who has now 311 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,920 seven years of head coach experience, including one year 312 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,200 of head coach experience at the Power 5 level. 313 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,480 He's under the age of 50. He was relatively inexpensive in 314 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,800 terms of the contract. I think the number I saw was 315 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,840 that Indiana was paying like 5 million a year or thereabouts 316 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,840 over a six year span of time and seems to have a long runway in 317 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,920 front of him. He's already recruiting. 318 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,080 Well, he's he had the top, he had a top 25 recruiting class. 319 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,880 It was 25th, but it's still top 25 at West Virginia. 320 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,520 Two of those guys have already maybe all three. 321 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,319 I haven't seen about the third, but two of the guys have already 322 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,880 opted out of their National Letters of Intent to West 323 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,800 Virginia. You can kind of read between the 324 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,280 lines there. Hopefully Indiana's able to pick 325 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,880 them up. But a guy brings in 3-4 stars to 326 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,359 West Virginia. I don't know when the last time 327 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,480 was that Indiana brought in 3-4 stars in the same class at 328 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,240 Indiana under multiple different coaches. 329 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,560 So I just, I look at all of it and I say I understand the 330 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,960 skeptics and I've got several people who I respect who are 331 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,560 long time IU fans, including our buddy Doctor Hoosier in the 332 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,520 chat, you know, and, and my friend Mark and a couple of 333 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,640 other folks who have expressed some concerns. 334 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,680 And I get it 'cause this is not a sexy name. 335 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,720 It's a name that you know if you follow college basketball. 336 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,360 It's probably not a name that you know if you don't. 337 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,480 And yet you look at the profile and what I see is a younger 338 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,480 coach who's clearly in his groove as as far as recruiting, 339 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,120 just took a big step into a power conference and handled it 340 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:09,280 really well. I think there's a lot of reason 341 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,360 to be excited. It's not a for sure hire, but 342 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,400 I'm not sure if there was a for sure hire even among the big 343 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,920 fish. That's the thing that I was kind 344 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,080 of grappling with over the last couple days is that once you get 345 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,840 those big fish out, everybody had some form of, I don't want 346 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,800 to say warp, but just some form of concern. 347 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,720 Whether it was, you know, somebody who had been a Brunel 348 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,040 who'd been at AD one level for a while and hadn't really 349 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,200 accomplished what I felt was enough or thanks 5 dusty 350 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,920 banners. I think is that is that it? 351 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,280 I saw that the most concise is that that's gas lighting. 352 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,360 That's just not a nice thing to say. 353 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,240 I'm going to take it as a compliment until. 354 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:49,520 It's proven otherwise. It's fine we're. 355 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:50,360 Done. That's it. 356 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,240 We're podcast done in 18 minutes. 357 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,720 Sorry. It's all you get, you know. 358 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,480 But the other ones were like McCollum, who it just would have 359 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,120 been funnier to hire just to see Galen talk about it for two 360 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:00,640 years about that. That would have been a tough, 361 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,800 tough Rd. for me. I didn't. 362 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,560 Have a lot of experience so you know there's there really wasn't 363 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,480 anybody out there where I'm like that is the absolute perfect 364 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,120 hire even you know heresy to say like even Stevens hasn't coached 365 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,600 like the college level in 15 plus years. 366 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,720 So everybody had some kind of little minor concern on there. 367 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,880 Here's the thing I want to talk about with Devries is everything 368 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,000 you just said about Drake. You know he goes three of the 369 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,760 last four years and makes the tournament. 370 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,920 Let's just and and stay with me here. 371 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,320 Archie's COVID year kind of can go either way, depending on the 372 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:38,920 the argument you want to make with Archie. 373 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,680 I think the same thing with this year in West Virginia, But just 374 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,440 go with me a little bit on this, you know, counterfactual future. 375 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,760 Look, this is a West Virginia team. 376 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:52,560 As you said, debris took over in 2024 that went 9 and 22 four and 377 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:58,800 14 in the with the Big 12 and he brought no players back. 378 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,640 So this year he has zero. Like I started looking at the 379 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,920 player. I just Ken Palm has a number a 380 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,480 thing called minutes continuity 0% brought no players back 0 381 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,520 minutes from the year before took that team, which by the 382 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,160 way, living in Indiana under Woodson, I thought that's not 383 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,160 possible was able to take that team. 384 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,200 It had not possible to have success with that had took that 385 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,040 team went 19 and 12:10 and 10:00. 386 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,760 There's a world where next year let's just pretend that he goes 387 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,640 24 and 8. And gets a eight seed in the 388 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,000 tournament or like somewhere in that range or even what if he 389 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,440 could even get to a six seed in the tournament and again I'm 390 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,920 future casting but if he does that you would look at this and 391 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,920 be like man, this is probably the hottest coach one of the 392 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,320 hottest young coaches in the country. 393 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,800 It's like look when he did it Drake and my God, he just turned 394 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,000 around West Virginia. No, next year hasn't happened 395 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,320 yet. Barry Mel, this, this team could 396 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,680 fall on its face next year. And it's like, wow, he missed 397 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,320 the tournaments 2 years in a row in West Virginia, but all 398 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,040 indications are he turned it around pretty damn fast. 399 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,440 And if he gets that, if he were to get West Virginia the 400 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,960 tournament next year, we'd all be looking at it and be like, 401 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,240 damn, why couldn't we have got degrees the next year? 402 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,880 And maybe we just kind of got lucky getting him a year early. 403 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,000 And that that's another way to frame this as well. 404 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,120 Because I, you can't understate and even for me, I didn't, I was 405 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:17,720 just like, man, WV to make the tournament. 406 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,040 Once you look into it, you know, taking a team that is that bad 407 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,040 and has no returning players and you're restarting everything. 408 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,520 And by the way, you're West Virginia. 409 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,320 It's not even like Crean at IU where you have the, the, you 410 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,880 know, 17,000 people in the stands and you have the, the 411 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,200 power of IU behind you trying to rebuild it. 412 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,480 This is West, no offense, this is West Virginia. 413 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:39,960 Jerry West doesn't walk through that door anymore. 414 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,960 I mean, it's it's not like you have people. 415 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,960 Kevin Pitsnoggles. Not walking through that door. 416 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,560 Pitsnoggle, can we get him as an assistant, I mean. 417 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:53,000 Well, they're, they're, they're there's though, I think you, you 418 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,320 make really good points and I think some of the folks in the 419 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,520 chat have have talked about, you know, this feels like a guy that 420 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,400 is on the come up career wise. And, and I think you make a 421 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,960 really good point. I mean, the guys won 71% of his 422 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,120 games and it was at 73% before this year. 423 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,360 And they went 19 and 13, which is a a perfectly respectable 424 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:14,400 schedule. They should have been in the 425 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,360 tournament. The and if they make it next 426 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:18,800 year, everyone would have been like, oh, they should have been 427 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,760 in twice. Sorry, go ahead. 428 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,760 Right, no, well, right. I mean, it's, it's one of those 429 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,320 things where the rationale. For why they didn't make the 430 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,920 tournament this year was, was ludicrous because this is a team 431 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,880 that, you know what West Virginia lost? 432 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,480 Tucker Devries, Darren Devries's son, who's a, a, you know, a 433 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,640 sharpshooter. I think is, is actually 434 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,080 underselling him to some degree. Was shooting 47% from three in 435 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,880 the 8 games that he played this year before he was knocked out. 436 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,040 You probably saw him in Maui. So, you know, not their best 437 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,560 player. Javon Small was their best 438 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,640 player, but that want they beat Iowa State twice. 439 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,400 They beat Kansas, you know, despite the fact that they 440 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,680 restructure the entire team on the fly and there's a lot to 441 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,800 like about what we see him bringing to the table. 442 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,240 When you look at there was a question from from doctor 443 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Hoosier how committee committed as either analytics and data. 444 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,560 There's a so I'll answer that first by saying there's a really 445 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,120 good breakdown, which I kind of feel bad about now by the West 446 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,280 Virginia 24/7 site that breaks down his approach to offense and 447 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,680 his approach to defense. I think you'll like what you see 448 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,720 there. I I heard some people worrying 449 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,960 that he was a pack line guy. That does not appear to be the 450 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,000 case from what I've seen. When you look at what he does 451 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,360 analytics wise, four factors wise, it's clear to me there's a 452 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:39,320 couple of things right off the bat his teams. 453 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,640 First of all, he runs a four out offense, which for those who 454 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,280 aren't familiar, it's a very perimeter oriented offense, 455 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,520 which is one of those things that a lot of IU fans I think 456 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,120 have been pining for in terms of like we're tired of playing 457 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,840 this, this slow, methodical 2 post offense. 458 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,840 We want guys that can shoot. I think you're going to get that 459 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,640 with Darren Devries and what he wants to do. 460 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,240 I mean it. It's very clear he values 461 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,040 shooting. He values taking care of the 462 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,560 ball. If you look at the last four 463 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,080 years he was at Drake, his teams were 13th, 38th, 31st and 13th 464 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,680 in the country in offensive turnover percentage. 465 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,760 That means a team that takes care of the ball. 466 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,320 For all the people that loved Ben McCollum and love the fact 467 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,400 that Ben Mccollum's teams were like supposedly hyper efficient, 468 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,080 by the way, they were not hyper efficient. 469 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,360 But we'll leave that. I think McCollum gets a job in 470 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,000 the Big 10. I just thought, I'm going to get 471 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,440 the job at Iowa for years, probably going to get the job at 472 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,680 Iowa, which is going to set up a fascinating like retrospective. 473 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,200 Five years from now, we'll be doing a podcast be like, hmm, 474 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:38,680 how did these things go for both teams? 475 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,680 We'll come back to that. Where his teams have generally 476 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,200 not focused on a lot is offensive rebounding. 477 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,640 But I'll be frank with you. I don't think offensive 478 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,520 rebounding amongst the four factors on the offensive side is 479 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,600 that important if you can shoot the ball. 480 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,200 The other thing they don't do, and this will be a little bit of 481 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,480 a change and this is the one thing that's like a consistent 482 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,120 thread. They don't really get to the 483 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,320 free throw line a ton, but when they do get to the free throw 484 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,760 line, they hit shots again. Wallet Drake. 485 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,360 You know, I'll take four of the six years as an example. 486 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:15,360 They never shot under 71% from the free throw line, which you I 487 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,840 might need to have a very IU fan listening to the podcast. 488 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,800 Sit down before I say that again. 489 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,120 They never shot less than 71% from the free throw line in the 490 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,320 six years that they were at Drake, and they didn't shoot. 491 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,960 They shot 72% this year at West Virginia, but they were in the 492 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,120 top 50 in free throw shooting percentage in four of the six 493 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,120 years. When was the last time we shot I 494 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,320 I know the answer I'm looking at right now. 495 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,240 The last time we shot over 72% from the free throw line, 2013, 496 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,640 2016 shot 73.1 but 2017 were 2272.9. 497 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,440 Yes, it's been a long a long slug for a while. 498 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,680 Defensively, his teams really do more often than not do a good 499 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,600 job of forcing the other team to not shoot particularly well. 500 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,200 This year at West Virginia with not a lot going for them and 501 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040 missing their second best offensive player, they held 502 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,200 opponents to the 18th best effective field goal percentage 503 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,880 in the country 46.3%. They forced a ton of turnovers 504 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,120 and they they really limited their opponents from the 505 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:19,200 three-point line like to. So for those of you who are 506 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,640 worried about the pack line and you know everything that we grew 507 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,920 to hate about that in the Archie era, this is not a defense that 508 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,400 plays the three-point line that way. 509 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,520 Like they allowed their opponents this year at West 510 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,760 Virginia shot 29.7% from 3. I'm all for that. 511 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,680 That's, that is, that is exactly the kind of defensive things 512 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,720 that you need. They also really forced the 513 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,640 opponent into one-on-one. They, you know, historically, 514 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,520 one of the things that I've noticed about his teams is that 515 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,200 they really limit their opponent's assist percentage. 516 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,000 And, and that's important because if you're if you don't 517 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,760 have a lot of assists, you're really forcing teams to, they're 518 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,520 having to rely on individual shots. 519 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,040 They're not necessarily relying a lot of kick outs or a lot of 520 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,120 penetration passes and things like that. 521 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,200 Now, how will those transfer to Indiana? 522 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,880 It's hard to say. But I think if you're looking at 523 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520 statistics and metrics and you're trying to figure out how 524 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,880 does this guy approach him from the analytical perspective, 525 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,800 there's a lot there to like. And then if you look at the 526 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,400 recruiting in his first year at a power conference, he was able 527 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,960 to pull in 3-4 star guys. And that was at West Virginia, 528 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,160 which as you said, is A, not a garden spot. 529 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,320 And B, doesn't have a ton of NIL. 530 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,960 And I think, honestly, one of the reasons why we're talking 531 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,680 about Darren Devries as the head coach at Indiana is because West 532 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,560 Virginia doesn't have a ton of NIL and because Iowa does not 533 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,280 have a ton of NIL either. But you know what? 534 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,440 Indiana has a ton of NIL, lot of money here. 535 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:54,080 And so I am really giddy to think through what he can do in 536 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,600 terms of bringing players in. And the interesting thing, 537 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,800 Scott, is that we're talking about a coach that is going to 538 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,480 come in perhaps with some recruits already. 539 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,440 We haven't seen, we've seen a couple of players from IU under 540 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,640 the portal, Gabe Cups, which everybody figured that was going 541 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,920 to happen regardless of whether there was a coaching change. 542 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,480 Malik Renew, which hurts a little bit. 543 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,920 Although Malik when I think about a four out offense and I 544 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,320 think about Malik as the sole post, I'm not sure if that 545 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,440 necessarily works. Maybe, but Malik or excuse me, 546 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,680 Miles Rice, who I know a lot of people are down on, but Miles 547 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,320 Rice from a skill perspective, like, oh, there's a reason 548 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,400 people were excited he was here. I think it a lot of Malik's or a 549 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,360 lot of Miles issues were confidence issues, which to me 550 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,840 stemmed from a real clear disagreement between him and 551 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,160 Woodson about what the offense was supposed to look like. 552 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,360 You might get Luke Goody back. You're going to get Tucker 553 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,920 debris transferring over. There's a non zero chance that 554 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,720 they might be able to perhaps reopen the Mullins recruitment. 555 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,480 You're going to get Trent Sisley and you're going to have a 556 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,560 couple of other players that you grab in the portal. 557 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,440 Like what I'm excited about here is you've already got a little 558 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,800 bit of a core. You might be able to add some 559 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,560 exciting pieces. And I do think that there's a 560 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,440 real possibility that, you know, given the fact he's already had 561 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,000 to assemble a team from scratch, he's going to be able to do 562 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,440 something similar here. And we saw that happen with Pat 563 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,120 Kelsey at Louisville as well. And so you, you take all these 564 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,560 things into account and I'm really excited about the 565 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,280 possibilities. I, I don't have any guarantees 566 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,200 it's going to work, but I am excited about the possibilities. 567 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,480 And I, and I think again, if you can get over the name 568 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,120 recognition issue and you start digging into what this guy has 569 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,800 done, you know, it's easy to like I someone said earlier when 570 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,400 they were talking to me, well, he hasn't won a conference 571 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:47,600 championship. And that's true. 572 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,440 They finished fourth in the Missouri Valley Conference, but 573 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,920 he finished, excuse me, second four times in the Missouri 574 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,080 Valley. But they won two Missouri Valley 575 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,520 Conference tournaments, which is really what you need to do. 576 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,640 There's a ton of people that have won Missouri Valley regular 577 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,960 seasons that never went to the NCAA to get Drake again. 578 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,040 Not a historically good team to three NCAA tournaments in four 579 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,520 years. And each time they were good 580 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,000 enough profile wise that they would have made it as an at 581 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,200 large. They did it once in 2021 as an 582 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,880 at large. The last two times they would 583 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,600 have made it as an at large, but they ended up winning the, the, 584 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,440 the tournament title. I, I, I think there's a lot of, 585 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,680 of runway there and there's a lot of pieces that we haven't 586 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,120 heard from yet. I don't know what happens with 587 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,360 McKenzie and Bacco. Somebody mentioned him in the in 588 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,640 the chat. I don't know what happens with 589 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,320 Bryson Tucker. The fact that Bryson Tucker went 590 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,480 on to Twitter the other day and said I haven't decided yet. 591 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,680 I think it's really interesting. So you could be starting with a 592 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,600 nice pool of talented players and I'm really fascinated given 593 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,720 what we've seen already profile wise out of him to see what he 594 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,400 can do with do with that group of people. 595 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,760 I'm just excited because he issued a press release like what 596 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,360 a novel idea coach issuing a press release to his fans about 597 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,240 what he's thinking about things that are going on. 598 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,280 Sorry, shouldn't throw too much dirt on him, but hey, Mike, talk 599 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,080 to the press, talk to Fisher. You can do it. 600 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,680 You know, here's the other thing too, is that I I think you 601 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,360 you're right on the name recognition piece, but 602 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,560 everything you're saying is dead on. 603 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,800 I mean, like he he just used those same muscles to rebuild an 604 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440 entire team. He can do most of that. 605 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,280 Again, I would also say I, I don't keep up with the the 606 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,360 portal that much 'cause renew's in the portal. 607 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,400 I saw that he could come back. I mean, guys, go to the portal, 608 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,520 they test it. He might not find what he wants. 609 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,400 He might come back. So I would just, I'm not saying 610 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,840 I know anything, but just 'cause someone enters the portal 611 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,000 doesn't necessarily mean they're not coming back to Indiana. 612 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:50,600 The other thing that I would say too is, you know, hopefully this 613 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,680 works out, but the fact that he went to West Virginia, hold on. 614 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,920 And you know, year 1 with a brand new roster and I want, I 615 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,320 want to get to this is, is a question I have for you with a 616 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,000 brand new roster. They go to Atlantis and they go 617 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,040 2 and one they had the result. I mean, it was a bunch of 618 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,240 overtime games. They had the result in Atlantis. 619 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,280 I think that we we were hoping for. 620 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,760 They took it from us. You know, he started in West 621 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,840 Virginia. They were 11 and 2 on January 622 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,400 4th. And then then things didn't go 623 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:17,920 as well for them. That point. 624 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,880 I mean, think about we haven't really Archie started with a 625 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,000 what, 15 point loss to Indiana State like that wasn't 626 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,880 immediately like, whoa, this is not what we're expecting. 627 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,960 Imagine if he comes to Indiana and starts 11:00 and 2:00. 628 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,120 Those two and one in a non exempt in an exempt tournament. 629 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,960 That'd be awesome. Now Woodson started off pretty 630 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,160 well the first two years. Although you're you're I just 631 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,560 want to note you're giving Archie way too much credit. 632 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,760 He lost by 21. To Indiana State, not 15. 633 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,200 OK, fair enough. Sorry. 634 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,480 I know, Arch. Sorry. 635 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,880 I know you're listening, Archie and Sean. 636 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,440 I know you're both listening. I apologize. 637 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:51,880 Sean's sweating through his shirt. 638 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,800 He's so nervous. You know Woodson started off 639 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,640 well the first two years, but was always in the back of your 640 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,880 head, like we were getting blown out by good teams. 641 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,120 Obviously, the last two years were not as good. 642 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,880 All I'm saying is the runway is there. 643 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,320 Now what I think is interesting with the Atlantis tournament is 644 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,320 Indiana was there, West Virginia was there, Scott Dolson was 645 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,600 there and Devries was there. Do you think some of this 646 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:19,040 started at that point? I mean the conversations for for 647 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,240 where we're at now between Dolson and Devries, like do you 648 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,040 think there was something that all all there or you think it's? 649 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,560 Complete happenstance. I think it was happenstance, 650 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,120 although I, I, I don't know how you could be in Atlantis and not 651 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,800 see the difference between. I mean, there were two teams in 652 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,480 Atlantis that had no business being as successful as they 653 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,080 ended up being in Atlantis. One was Louisville and I would 654 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,480 have been really happy if they've just nabbed Pat Kelsey, 655 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,520 but the other was West Virginia. And I mean, you know, when you 656 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,800 go back and look at that tournament and the fact that 657 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,560 West Virginia was as competitive as they were in that tournament 658 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,080 from the beginning didn't make a ton of sense. 659 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,440 You know, And I think for a lot of people, it was like, well, 660 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,120 you know, why is Indiana not being, you know, why are they 661 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,800 not more successful in this tournament? 662 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,200 They got blown out in two of the games. 663 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,160 You know, and you look at what West Virginia did in that 664 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,480 tournament. They beat Gonzaga in overtime. 665 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,639 They lose to Louisville in overtime, and then they beat 666 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,199 Arizona in overtime. I mean, it was a, it was a 667 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:18,480 really surprisingly effective set of games there. 668 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,280 And, and I'm, you know, when you think about that and then you 669 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,199 think about the fact that they, they win at Kansas at the end of 670 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,920 that month, I'm sure that, you know, whether it had been fully 671 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,120 formed in Scott Dolson's mind or not, that this was a guy they 672 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,440 might want to look at. Ultimately, surely they, that 673 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,960 made a little bit of an impression, which made it a 674 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,560 little bit easier 'cause you've seen the guy's team play. 675 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:47,159 And so, you know, I'm, I look at it and I say, you know, when you 676 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,800 perform as well as they did, relatively speaking, and what 677 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:55,080 was a very tough, you know, season for the Big 12. 678 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,560 I mean, there were a lot ton of good teams in the Big 12 this 679 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,600 season. And I mean, think about it like 680 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,760 Houston was a one seed, Tech was a three seed, Arizona was a four 681 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,480 seed, BYU was a six. To finish last. 682 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,280 They were fixed to finish last. They finished. 683 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,880 They finished tied for seventh, right and you know the and then 684 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,760 again, they got screwed out of the NCAA tournament for that, 685 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,200 you know, which was unfortunate for them, but I was, you know, I 686 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,320 don't know that you could look at that and not say, well, this 687 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,800 is a guy that's clearly got some really fascinating things going 688 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,920 for him. You know, again, we'll go back 689 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,800 to what we said earlier. Was this the first choice? 690 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,960 It probably was not. Almost certainly was not. 691 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,040 And I will be curious as we unpack the timing of all of 692 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,560 this, 'cause it seemed like it happened pretty quickly. 693 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,400 But you know, for, for it to happen the way that it did and 694 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000 for all of the different things that we heard and all the 695 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,400 different names, whether it was Brad Brownell, whether it was, 696 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,000 you know, we heard a lot of Ben McCollum this, you know, if you 697 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,480 got past the top group. And I and people have asked me 698 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:56,560 like, well, who was your favorite? 699 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,840 And I, I think I've been pretty clear on this, but just to, just 700 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,120 to reiterate, like, I really, I really did what Ben McCollum, 701 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,160 you know, no, I really, I really wanted to see Indiana go after 702 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,160 Scott Drew, TJ Otzelberger, Tommy Lloyd, like that triad. 703 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,280 It was, it ended up being a Big 12 coach, just not any of those 704 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,760 Big 12 coaches. But I I also said, and we talked 705 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:26,400 about this on Sunday, it's it's not a foregone conclusion that 706 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,520 you were going to go to a place like Indiana, if you can win at 707 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,160 the place that you're already at, at a high level. 708 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,600 And that's where I think for a lot of the coaches that might 709 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,160 have in a past generation said, oh, Indiana's open. 710 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,080 Well, I have to go get that job because that's where I 711 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,640 ultimately can win a national title. 712 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,440 I mean, you know, you're not going to get a Grant Mcaslin 713 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,000 necessarily out of Texas Tech because you've proven previously 714 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,720 that you can get to a national title game at Texas Tech. 715 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,640 You're not going to necessarily get an A, a, a Bruce Pearl out 716 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,120 of Auburn because you've proven you can get to a Final Four with 717 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,120 Auburn. You're not going to leave 718 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,120 Alabama for Indiana or North Carolina necessarily because you 719 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,120 can go to a Final Four from Alabama. 720 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,920 Like all of these things have happened recently. 721 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,840 Even Iowa State, which hasn't made a Final Four, but they've 722 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,200 been knocking on the door. The thing with Iowa State and 723 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,400 the other, the other, the other three that you mentioned is like 724 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,000 I, I was kind of putting more, more weight on that. 725 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,400 You know, Big 10 and SCC schools are just going to continually 726 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,000 have more resources year over year just on the TV money alone 727 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,000 that it's going. I think it's going to be harder 728 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,720 and harder for those schools to compete that are outside of the 729 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,880 Big 10 and the SCCI. Do think Arizona might be an 730 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,120 outlier. I don't think Iowa State is I 731 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,080 think, you know, if you're Scott Drew, you've already built a 732 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,360 fiefdom in Baylor. So it's like, why do you want to 733 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,640 leave? But that that's where I was 734 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,440 looking at those guys. And that was always my argument. 735 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,520 I was talking to you. I was like, you're TJ 736 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,600 Otzelberger, like, can you really compete at Iowa State 737 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,520 over the next 10 years when any Big 10 school is going to have 738 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,720 more resources than Iowa State year over year? 739 00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,240 But that sorry, just but that's I I thought that might have been 740 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,640 enough to pull it over. But maybe that is enough to get 741 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,760 what what we got to Reese. Yeah. 742 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,840 So look at, you know, I know we've got some folks in the chat 743 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,640 that aren't happy and I I get, and I think Brian missed the 744 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,320 first part of the show where we tried to explain things. 745 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,080 But look, I think there's going to be people and I, I get this 746 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,880 perspective, I really do, who are like, why are we hiring a 747 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,680 coach from this level? There'll be a lot of well, 748 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,240 Indiana isn't the job that they think that it is. 749 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:33,080 There's you know, but again, I'll go back to the first 750 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,240 podcast we did on this front. You take a shot at the big 751 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,120 coaches, you take a shot at the moon shot types of candidates. 752 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,400 If they don't come, it's not the end of the world. 753 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,800 Because again, when you look at the pathway that most successful 754 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,520 coaches have, where they start is about where Darren Debris 755 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,440 started at Drake. And again, you go down the list, 756 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,800 you've got, I'll do this again, for those who weren't with us in 757 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,400 that podcast back in February, let's let's just go through the 758 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,280 Ken Palm top 20. Duke is coached by John Shire, 759 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,480 who was a career assistant at Duke before becoming the head 760 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,040 coach. Todd Golden at Florida coached 761 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,320 for three years at San Francisco and then his first year at 762 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,320 Florida they missed the tournament in the second year 763 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,440 they bounced out in round one as a seven seed and now they're a 764 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,960 one seed. You know, Calvin Sampson, we 765 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,200 know his back story. We that's a little bit of a 766 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,400 different route. Bruce Pearl at Auburn was at a 767 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,360 division two school and then spent four years at Milwaukee 768 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,760 before being hired by a moribund Tennessee squad which he then 769 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,800 lost because he had a BBQ with Aaron Craft and then came back 770 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,120 and got hired out of a show cause at Auburn. 771 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,440 Rick Mark. He also had a bunch of years as 772 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,440 AD One assistant like Devries. He did. 773 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,680 Rick Barnes, obviously long time regular, you know, coach at 774 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,760 relatively top levels. Nate Oates was at Buffalo for 775 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,960 four years before getting hired at Alabama. 776 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,480 With a similar profile as what Devries had to drink. 777 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,080 Grant Mccaslin. Lot of people wanted Grandma 778 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,320 Chasm from Texas Tech spent looks very similar frankly to 779 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,880 Darren Devries, spent a year at our Arkansas State and then 780 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,160 spent six seasons at North Texas. 781 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,120 And to our friend Brian in the chat, Grandma Chasm made one 782 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,160 tournament in that whole period of time. 783 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,840 Probably would have made a second one. 784 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,160 We can give him a second one. It's less than Darren Devries 785 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,240 did at Drake, which is arguably not arguably definitely a worst 786 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:36,000 school to coach at. Than than than than North Texas 787 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,040 is Tom Izzo, career assistant, Mark Few, career assistant TJ 788 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,600 Otzelberger, who I was certainly very much on board with. 789 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,640 Three years at South Dakota State, made 2 tournaments, 2 790 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,560 years at UNLV, made 0 tournaments and then got hired 791 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,760 at Iowa State at a discount. I might note Kevin Willard kind 792 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,800 of a sneaky path through the college coaching ranks. 793 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,360 Spent like 9000 years at Seton Hall, was not terribly 794 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,880 impressive. He's got Maryland as a four seed 795 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,280 now. We can keep going down the list. 796 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,280 I mean, what you see more often than not is that if you're going 797 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,240 to get coaches who are going to take off like on their own 798 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,880 runway, this is generally the profile that they fit. 799 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,480 I do not blame anybody who looks at this and says underwhelming 800 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,280 hire guy hasn't done nearly as much as you would want. 801 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,400 I get all of that. I'm just going to tell you, when 802 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,960 you look at the profile, it fits a ton of what you see in other 803 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,640 hires that end up being really good. 804 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960 And I know everybody throws the Archie Miller thing at it, and I 805 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,440 get that. But I was talking to Will 806 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,640 McDermott and Matt Press at at upstairs earlier before the the 807 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,200 show started. And I told them what I'll tell 808 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,760 all of you, which is that you can't let the fact that Archie 809 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,920 failed be the reason why you don't consider these particular 810 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,320 types of hires. It didn't work, Archie didn't 811 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,840 work, and there were a number of reasons why it didn't work. 812 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:09,040 That doesn't mean that similar profiled coaches don't work. 813 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,000 And this is where we've said Archie was a good process, bad 814 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,240 results hire. Ultimately, you're going to have 815 00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:18,760 situations where things don't work and there's a litany of 816 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,800 coaches when you go through the history of college basketball 817 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,480 that got hired and didn't work out. 818 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,120 I would point to our friends across the border at Illinois. 819 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,720 Do you remember the, the, the John Gross era? 820 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,440 You know, John Gross got hired and everybody was like, wow, 821 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,160 this guy is the next big thing. Coach four years at Ohio. 822 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,840 He had that one great year in 2013 and it was great year. 823 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,800 They were a seven seed in the tournament and then didn't make 824 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,320 the tournament the next four years. 825 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,800 And now he's at Akron doing pretty well. 826 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,360 I had a bunch of people be like, why aren't we considering John 827 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,520 Gross? And it's like, well, it didn't 828 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,280 work at the highest level. The fact that you you hired 829 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,840 debris at West Virginia and he does A10 game improvement right 830 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,480 off the bat. That doesn't happen by accident. 831 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,280 It really doesn't. I know people think that it 832 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,680 does. That doesn't happen by accident, 833 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,120 especially as you said, Scott, when you're starting from 834 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,480 scratch. I know it sounds like I'm trying 835 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,600 to sell this higher, but you know, the more I've talked about 836 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,640 it and thought about it, the more I'm like, this is really a 837 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,680 fascinating move by IU. And the fact that I'm, you know, 838 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,360 I look at where he's been and what he's done and, and the fact 839 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,600 that Dolson, again, kind of brought out the Devries, checked 840 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,360 all the boxes when we interviewed him. 841 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,840 The fact that he had that same reaction to Signetti, it doesn't 842 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,560 mean it's going to be the same level of higher as Signetti was. 843 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,320 But I think we have to at least put some trust in Scott Dolson's 844 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,560 evaluative processes here 'cause it's already worked once and 845 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,040 there's a possibility it could work again. 846 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,520 And that's enough for me at this point to be like, yes, let's get 847 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:51,160 behind this. Yeah. 848 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,560 No, I I agree. I mean, there's definitely 849 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,520 there's things that are concerning, there's concerning 850 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,040 things about everything. In the end, we're all fans. 851 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,560 Like I'm not going to say I'm going to get in line, but it's 852 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920 like, all right, I'm going to try and find the positive, try 853 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,120 and find ways and I want to go in the next season with a 854 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,520 positive attitude and and be proven correct that this is 855 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,880 going to work out again. We'll know in three years. 856 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,600 The kind of the other way to look at it too is, you know, 857 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,080 let's just call it what it is. Like outside of Brad Stevens, 858 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,800 Billy Donovan, Jay Wright and like Scott Drew just to the the 859 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,360 upper absolute tier of guys. Everybody else had some kind of 860 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,800 question mark there, you know, you know, to be like, oh man, 861 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:32,800 you really settled. It's like what? 862 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,760 Like as you mentioned, man, TJ Oltzenberger didn't make the 863 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,280 tournament at UNLV. You know, Ben McCollum had like 864 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,120 we're we're really splitting hairs if we're like at this 865 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,960 level, like, yes, we didn't get Brad Stevens. 866 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:46,520 I don't think we're going to get Brad Stevens. 867 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,160 I don't think Brad Stevens wants to coach college. 868 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,240 I just want to coach college here. 869 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:52,880 Like at some point we can't just it's not like it's no one's 870 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,360 fault. It's just that's not an option 871 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,800 that those guys aren't. Guess what? 872 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,720 Neither is going back in time and getting Phil Jackson in 92. 873 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:00,800 Like he's no longer a coach either. 874 00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,920 You know, I'm just. I'm speaking suspicion that Phil 875 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,120 Jackson at the college level probably wouldn't have worked. 876 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,440 I did too much too much weed at that point to really make it 877 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,240 work. Also no Jordan big. 878 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,960 Big, big issue. No, No, Jordan, no. 879 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,120 Kobe kind of an issue, yes. Just this idea of, you know, we 880 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,240 settled. It's like because what, because 881 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,480 you, you couldn't like, I don't think Brad Stevens, they did 882 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,960 whatever they could to try and get Brad Stevens in one of these 883 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,400 two or three cycles. It didn't happen. 884 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,240 It wasn't going to happen. I don't know if they tried Billy 885 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,440 Donovan or got turned down, but maybe it just wasn't even since 886 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,520 like I, I, I pushed back on me. Like you settled it it because 887 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,840 if you're just going to sit here and tell me, oh, like, you know, 888 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,960 whatever, you know, Mcculliver will wait. 889 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,640 Like that would have been the dynamite higher. 890 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,040 It's like, well, we're really splitting hairs. 891 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,120 Like there's there's concerning things. 892 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,960 There's also ways to spin everything to be positive, and 893 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,440 that's what we're going to do. I mean, and that's this is where 894 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,760 you know, the X's and Joe's thing. 895 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,320 This is what a new coach allows you to do is you get a cultural 896 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,760 reset. Everything. 897 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,680 You know, you can start to look at things in a positive way and 898 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,960 you get there and, you know, I don't know how the future is 899 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,160 going to go, but you just need to look down the road at a 900 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,200 school in Kentucky who they felt like they got pissed on and 901 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,360 turned down by every coach they went for. 902 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,960 And like to them, no question Mark Pope felt like a real 903 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,640 settlement. They went 22 and 11 and they're 904 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,960 a three seed in the tournament this year. 905 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,760 I don't know how they're gonna do moving forward, but I'll take 906 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,120 that. I'll take that right now for 907 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,200 next year. So we had a request to stop 908 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,640 defending the higher and move forward, which I think is fair. 909 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,040 I appreciate it, Joey. Thank you. 910 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:43,640 So let's let's move to that. So what happens next and you 911 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,040 know this is where it's going to be interesting. 912 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,040 So first and foremost, I don't know if you guys have released. 913 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,760 Sorry, I got to go. What? 914 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:51,600 What happened today? Is there a Woodson press 915 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,640 release? Do we well? 916 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,720 No, I don't think that's ever happening at this point. 917 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,160 I mean, I mean, there's still as I don't think there's been an 918 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,480 announcement of the, the time of the press conference going to be 919 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,040 11:30 tomorrow. I do know that from from like 920 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:13,840 off off track betting in terms of media the his assistants at 921 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,240 West Virginia it it's like the ghosts of Christmas past for 922 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:19,400 IUI. Don't know if you folks have 923 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,360 seen this, but his three assistants at West Virginia are 924 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,040 Tom Ostrom, who of course was one of Archie Miller's 925 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:31,480 assistants at IU. Chester Frazier, who many of you 926 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,720 remember in an Illinois uniform, I believe shoved Eric Gordon. 927 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,200 I don't know if he'll be coming. Maybe what that would be a 928 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,200 fascinating one. I'd love to see Chester Frazier 929 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,080 in an IU polo just for the lows. And then Corey Barnett, our old 930 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:48,160 buddy four year walk on, who was the original human victory cigar 931 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,000 as Dan Carell mentioned earlier on. 932 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,520 Corey, I think is definitely coming. 933 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,160 I think we can count on Corey Barnett being on the IU coaching 934 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,600 staff. The other two, I'm not totally 935 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:05,080 sure and I am I'm fascinated to see what Devries does in terms 936 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,000 of his staff. I will say this like that's 937 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,640 going to be the starting point that alongside the recruits that 938 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,600 we will have to wait and see what it that what happens now. 939 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,800 We just there were a couple of notes that happened earlier and 940 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,320 I want to kind of run through all of them. 941 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,200 So first of all, Trent Sicily immediately retweeted and said, 942 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,560 let's let's go to work. We knew he was gonna be here. 943 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,720 I don't think that was a. Surprise. 944 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,760 And we can always already assume Devries son is gonna come here, 945 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,880 right? I mean, and I and Tucker Devries 946 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,240 will be here. You know, Zerno, the the Bosnian 947 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,040 kid, the immediately there was notes like he's gonna like 948 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,960 getting interest from elsewhere, which is what happens when the 949 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,520 coach's son plays the same position that you do. 950 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,960 Someone tweeted that. I don't know who it was. 951 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:52,680 It was a great tweet. Then you've got a bunch of 952 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,960 questions on the roster and, and this is where on the IU roster, 953 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,440 if we start with the IU roster first, I think you, you know, 954 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,640 you look through just because a guy's in the portal doesn't mean 955 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,240 that a guy can't come out of the portal. 956 00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,160 But let's go through who the guys are, who we don't know 957 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,480 about one way or the other. So Malik Renu is in the portal, 958 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,480 but it's possible he could potentially come back. 959 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,880 Trey Galloway is out of eligibility. 960 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,800 Omar Barlow is out of eligibility. 961 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,040 Miles Rice haven't heard anything from. 962 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,560 I still maintain Miles Rice can be a good point guard at the 963 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,920 Division One level. You know what? 964 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,760 I I, I think a lot of it has to do with the confidence issues 965 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,640 that he had with Woodson this year. 966 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:32,920 Oh, and. I've, I've always felt with 967 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,120 Miles Rice this year, it, it felt like everything that he is 968 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,640 good at. We didn't play to that style 969 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,440 that you know, he's, he was very quick and brought the ball up 970 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,480 quickly and has a lot of pace and you're asking him to be slow 971 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,680 and deliberate and he's just not that kind of point guard. 972 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,880 He seems like a perfect Tom Crean type point guard, like 973 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,800 someone who could just run and gun and shoot. 974 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,040 It's like, no, we just slow down, be very efficient, don't 975 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,000 turn the ball over and pass the ball to the post. 976 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,800 And it's like you're asking him to do all the things that he's, 977 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,880 I don't want to say, not good at, but not as advantageous for 978 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,200 him. And so I, I think at a different 979 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,640 system with a different coach, he he could flourish. 980 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:11,080 I mean, there's, there's a lot of. 981 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,000 Here's the thing. As much as Woodson deservedly 982 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,920 got credit for coaching up big men, the guards really struggled 983 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,320 under Woodson. Even Jalen Ochofino, who frankly 984 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,480 like as as well as as he played at IU at times, you know. 985 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,640 I mean, he was at. His own, it was very much like 986 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,240 do it yourself. Absolutely. 987 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,480 You look at the other players that are question marks on the 988 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,640 roster. We have McKenzie Mbacco, who I'm 989 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:39,160 I'm really curious to see what he does. 990 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,880 I won't be shocked at all if Mbacco transfers. 991 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,360 I'm actually very surprised that I haven't seen his name in the 992 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,320 portal, which makes me wonder, well, does he look at this 993 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,520 offense and say, wait, a four out offense? 994 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,280 That's like what I am made for. That's a guy who I would love to 995 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,920 see him with, someone who can unlock whatever defensive 996 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,400 potential he has. He may have none. 997 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,040 I don't know. I know it's a dumb take. 998 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,240 I wouldn't be surprised either way. 999 00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:02,160 I, I I wouldn't be surprised if he left. 1000 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,240 I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed Canon. 1001 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:06,960 Carlisle, I'll be surprised if he comes back. 1002 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,360 I won't be shocked, but I'll be a bit surprised. 1003 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,120 Bryson Tucker. I'll note, like earlier on this 1004 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:18,640 week, it was announced by other media members that he was in the 1005 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,280 in the portal and that he he himself took to Twitter and said 1006 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,040 that is not true. And his family. 1007 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,160 And his family also took to Twitter and said that is not 1008 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,440 true, which makes me think that there may be a a future for 1009 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,840 Bryson Tucker at IU. So we'll see what happens with 1010 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,040 that. Luke Goody obviously is suing 1011 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,640 for an extra year of eligibility. 1012 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,160 And God, if we could get Luke Goody back. 1013 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,880 As kind of a, an emotional anchor and another 3 point 1014 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,080 shooter to plug into this. How know you know the NCAA 1015 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,080 better than most? How where would you put your 1016 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,440 your chances of of him coming getting that extra year? 1017 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,040 Well, let's put it this way. When when the news was announced 1018 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,960 he was going to try my immediate tweet was let's get him some 1019 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,760 great lawyers because I think at this point, I don't know how the 1020 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:08,560 NCAA says you're not going to get this extra year of 1021 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,760 eligibility because they know they're going to get sued And 1022 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,840 and that so that's what gives me some hope on Goody. 1023 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,320 I I'm keeping my fingers crossed. 1024 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,320 That would be amazing if we could get Luke Goody back for 1025 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:18,920 another year. Doesn't sound. 1026 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,280 Optimistic about it though. Yeah. 1027 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,600 So anyway, Matt Norlander, this is Jr. 1028 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,560 ES. Matt Norlander is reporting 7 1029 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,600 million plus an nil and revenue share. 1030 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:33,000 Does that sound accurate? Yes, so the, the question on the 1031 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,920 money, I actually saw a number that was going to be closer to 8 1032 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,520 million, which is going to be close to the top of the Big 10. 1033 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,480 You need that in this day and age. 1034 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:48,280 And it's, I don't know if they actually like if debris actually 1035 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:53,560 went to Iowa and said that, hey, I need an IO money. 1036 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,880 And they said, no, we only have this much 'cause I mean, there's 1037 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,760 reports that Iowa rolled into this year with $300,000 in NIL, 1038 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,760 which is incredibly Iowa. I mean, that's, that's, that's 1039 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,520 the most Iowa thing I've heard that they would do like that 1040 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,480 little money in in, in NIL. We put it all in Bitcoin that we 1041 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,480 had two million wait. Wait, wait, it's corn coin in 1042 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:20,440 Iowa. But but 8 million to play with 1043 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,480 and and that is about what you're going to be going for. 1044 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:23,840 I mean, this is the thing. Indiana's got a ton of 1045 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,320 resources. They've poured a ton of NIL 1046 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,560 money. They're going to pour money and 1047 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,440 more money into it next year. Also Jr. asked, do you think 1048 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,560 Debris will get AGM to help build the roster and effectively 1049 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,640 allocate those resources? I do. 1050 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,560 I don't know if AG Ms. gonna get announced immediately but I do. 1051 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,160 We're gonna start doing 4G Ms. A A a podcast. 1052 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,760 We're gonna do our GM search. That's right. 1053 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,520 That's right. We're gonna start with Lawrence 1054 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,200 Frank. Actually, he's gonna leave the 1055 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,240 Clippers and gonna come here. That's exactly right. 1056 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,240 Anyway, so you've got that group and then you've got the group 1057 00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:57,480 that's at West Virginia. We've talked about Tucker 1058 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,720 Devries already, who who's an excellent player, and I'm really 1059 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:02,920 excited to see what he can do in an Indiana uniform. 1060 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,680 And then you've got the recruiting class. 1061 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,640 So there were three recruits in the West Virginia recruiting 1062 00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,280 class. They were, I misspoke earlier. 1063 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,520 They're 23rd in the country. Now you've got one West Virginia 1064 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,680 native, Braden Hawthorne. I I don't know if the chat can 1065 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,200 help with this. Did he go in the portal yet or 1066 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,600 not? Because I saw announcements for 1067 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,480 the other two. They both have entered the 1068 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:27,880 portal, which makes me they may not come to Indiana. 1069 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,000 We'll have to wait and see. But I got to think with 1070 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,920 Indiana's NIL money and if Devries believes in them and 1071 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,000 thinks they can play at this level and and let's be honest, 1072 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,360 if you recruited them to West Virginia, he probably thinks 1073 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,760 they can play at a high enough level. 1074 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,320 The other two. So I'm being told that by the 1075 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,080 chat, they are not in the that the that Braden Hawthorne's not 1076 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,960 in the portal. The other two also four stars. 1077 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:53,760 You've got Kelvin Odie, I I'm probably butchered that name. 64 1078 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,680 small forward out of Socal Academy in Castaic, CA 75th in 1079 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,440 the country. And you know, a smaller small 1080 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,040 forward. But that's fine, especially 1081 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,880 since Devries likes to play a smaller style. 1082 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,080 And then you got another full circle moment for for us Scott 1083 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:15,080 Trent McClain, 141st in the country, 69 power forward. 1084 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,920 He is the son of Don McClain, who if you are a long in the 1085 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:26,080 tooth IU fan, you remember Don McClain was the leading player 1086 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:31,040 on that IU, on that UCLA team that IU just like obliterated in 1087 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:36,560 the 1992 NCAA Tournament. And so that's fascinating to me. 1088 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,440 If you go back and watch the tape of that, there's like this 1089 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,360 weird, like Don, like the the other Don McClain, the guy that 1090 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,720 wrote American Pie intro during that broadcast, like where they 1091 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,840 they redid the American Pie lyrics to try to match like 1092 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,600 something basketball related. And then and then, you know, 1093 00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,000 that was the first like really great Jim Herrick UCLA team and 1094 00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,880 they just got like bludgeoned to death. 1095 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,000 That was also the game where like, you know, famously Knight 1096 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,880 had gotten in trouble earlier in that tournament for like having 1097 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,920 the bullwhip out and then like Calvert Chaney does like the the 1098 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,760 whipping of Knight with the towel on the sidelines at the 1099 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,080 end of that. That's that game. 1100 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,600 So it's hilarious that we might potentially get Don Mcclain's 1101 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,440 kid to come to play it. Indiana. 1102 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,680 That's like a perfect circle as far as I'm concerned. 1103 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:25,480 Perfect circle. It's also funny. 1104 00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,240 I don't know why I remember this intro songs of that tournament 1105 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,080 when we played in the final four that year when we played Duke 1106 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,760 that next game in that same tournament, the intro to the 1107 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,480 final four included a musical parody of Bohemian Rhapsody with 1108 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,480 Wayne World. And then it went into a like 1109 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,280 devil with a blue dress intro music showing all of its I I 1110 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,560 used to have it on VHS tape, but it was like it showed Cincinnati 1111 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,920 was playing God. Who'd they play in the But there 1112 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,800 was Duke and us and they, they were showing the Christian 1113 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,920 Watford or the Christian Oh, did you put that? 1114 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:02,920 I I did put that game on YouTube. 1115 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,320 Yes yeah, Christian Leightner, not Christian Lander. 1116 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,040 I know it's it's getting late more 4/4. 1117 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,080 Roses, baby. Like we don't yesterday I had 1118 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,200 that shot with like devil in the blue dress like I yeah, yeah, we 1119 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,200 do not we do not 90s for a wild time. 1120 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,800 I want to give Scott 4 roses before he podcast. 1121 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,200 We've learned. You know they're saying names, 1122 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:23,440 right? It'll like, well, I like them. 1123 00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:24,640 Out. I'll hit a certain I like. 1124 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,000 EJ here. I need to rhyme Chevy Levy and 1125 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,400 DeVry. This is great, great content. 1126 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,520 I love it. But anyway, we talked about that 1127 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,440 and as has been mentioned elsewhere in the chat, there's a 1128 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,200 non. Quinn Buckner and Great Gumble. 1129 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,760 I, I was watching another Gumbel Buckner game from a it was the 1130 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,520 UCLA Princeton game. I watched that clip this morning 1131 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:52,960 and I was like, well, that's, that's great. 1132 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,560 That's Quinn Buckner doing that game. 1133 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,320 That's wild. Anyway. 1134 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,200 There's also Pacers color, by the way. 1135 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,520 We still still got to have them. Among other things, as we've 1136 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:08,440 learned, there's also I, I think it's interesting, and this is 1137 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,360 something that I think a lot of IU fans are going to be 1138 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,640 interested in, is, is it possible to potentially talk 1139 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,840 Braylon Mullins into coming back to Indiana? 1140 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,720 And I do believe there's at least a crack in the door there 1141 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,080 for a variety of reasons. Because you know, again, why, 1142 00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,720 you know, why wouldn't you go play for the two time defending 1143 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,400 national champs? But on the other end, a lot of 1144 00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,680 the reason why Braylon Mullins didn't want to come here was the 1145 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,240 coaching staff, or at least the head coach in terms of like, you 1146 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,240 know, that there just wasn't a desire to play there. 1147 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,520 And and now that's changed. So may not happen, but man, that 1148 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,920 would be a really fascinating collection of players. 1149 00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,560 And, you know, we'll have to see how the rest of the roster comes 1150 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:51,840 together. It may be that a bunch of 1151 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,160 players still transfer out, but the fact that we've only seen a 1152 00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,560 couple of names in the portal, I am really fascinated by that. 1153 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,120 And the fact that that hadn't, I mean, you know, you've seen a 1154 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,680 lot of players announcing that they were going to be in the 1155 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,360 portal in other schools. And the fact that Indiana 1156 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,480 without a coach didn't have a bunch of players jump into the 1157 00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,760 portal until today was a really interesting one. 1158 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,080 I sort of saw somebody ask early about Jakai Newton. 1159 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,560 I have no idea what happens with Jakai Newton. 1160 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,640 I just don't know what his health situation is with like 1161 00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,680 two major knee issues with I think it's knee issues within 1162 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,920 the last two years. It's like, that's a tough one to 1163 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,040 project. But ultimately, look, I, I do 1164 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,680 think that the, the, the, the timetable on all this has been 1165 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:42,920 weird, but the fact that Indiana ends up making this higher two 1166 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,280 days before the bulk of the NCAA tournament starts and almost a 1167 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,440 full week before the portal opens does give them a huge 1168 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,440 advantage. And, and, and look, I'm all, I'm 1169 00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:58,000 all for what Newtonian's saying here, you know, go re recruit 1170 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,520 Jalen Harrelson. I mean, it's, it's one of those 1171 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,040 situations where IU had a bunch of players that were in the mix 1172 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,800 that were interested in coming to IU. 1173 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,560 And this is I, you know, if you want to call this piling on, I 1174 01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,720 don't care. Clearly something wasn't working 1175 01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,280 in the recruiting process that turned a bunch of guys who were 1176 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,400 otherwise interested in coming to IU off of coming to IU. 1177 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,480 Does that change with a new staff? 1178 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,520 Especially if Corey Barnett and someone mentioned he might be in 1179 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,040 running for the Oral Roberts head coaching job. 1180 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:30,920 But if he ends up not getting that and he ends up coming here 1181 01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,520 as an assistant, does that re establish the relationship with 1182 01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,840 Indiana Elite? Does it help to re establish the 1183 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,840 relationship with the recruiting here in the Midwest? 1184 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,400 Roberts says odds on devries attending the Indiana State 1185 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,360 championship game? I would say very high. 1186 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,440 Certainly. I'm sure someone has it written 1187 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,480 down a list of like dear Darren, here's the things we would 1188 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,760 highly suggest that you do for appearance purposes at the very 1189 01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:03,680 least over the course of the you know the next month or so, I 1190 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,560 have a sense that they're going to give them some some Intel as 1191 01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,560 far as like what's going to go over well with the families. 1192 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:09,600 We'll see what happens with that. 1193 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:14,760 But you know, when I've talked about the, you know, the 1194 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,520 personality. Showing up high school games, 1195 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,920 just go to a couple Indiana high school games like don't be known 1196 01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,600 as Bigfoot. Just just be know, be be known 1197 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,040 with the the players know with them. 1198 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:26,960 And I mean, if that number is true, if it's if it's an $8 1199 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,520 million NIL budget again, I'm I'm Braylon Mullins. 1200 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,360 If you're going to get recruited by UConn, they've won 1201 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:35,600 back-to-back titles. They could win three in a row. 1202 01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,840 I mean, you have a hell of a coach there a hell of a system. 1203 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,800 I, I, you probably lost that one, but maybe you now come in 1204 01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,560 and, and from all accounts, it sounded like he kind of had 1205 01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:46,960 interest. Of course, everyone in Indiana's 1206 01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,640 like always, but had interest and Woodson showed no interest 1207 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,240 back. Maybe you just come in and say, 1208 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,560 hey, I'm here, you know, but I also have a check for 2 million. 1209 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,880 Dollars. And we we now have interest and 1210 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,600 sorry, didn't work out before, but there's still an option to 1211 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,200 come and do this. Maybe it doesn't work, but yeah, 1212 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,520 I'm I'm with Robert on that one. Like Indiana State title game, I 1213 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,120 this has got to be a must. You got to start actually 1214 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,640 recruiting the state of India. And a lot of it is just energy 1215 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:17,880 and look, you don't go out and get 3-4 stars to come to West 1216 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,840 Virginia if you're not putting a lot of effort into things. 1217 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,640 I mean that it's just kind of just how it works. 1218 01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,080 So by the way, I keep seeing this in the chat and I'm sorry, 1219 01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,400 I'm going to have to put Brian in time out because he's he's 1220 01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,240 just being unrelenting. But, and I appreciated Brian's 1221 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,360 spiritedness, but like enough's enough. 1222 01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,080 You can't criticize a guy for going one and three in the 1223 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:43,200 tournament when all three times you're projected to lose. 1224 01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,880 You just can't do it. I'm sorry that that's that's not 1225 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,280 how things work in college basketball. 1226 01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,000 Like if you want a guy that had a really good tournament record 1227 01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,560 before he got to the next level, Archie Miller had a great 1228 01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:57,120 tournament record, went to an Elite 8. 1229 01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,120 You know, like the, the, the idea that, hey, you're a 12 seed 1230 01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,880 or an 11 seed out of the mountain Missouri Valley, which 1231 01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,280 has not been a great conference for a while. 1232 01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,360 I'm sorry, Matt Blaska, but it has not been. 1233 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,200 And, and you go to three tournaments, you win a game, 1234 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,480 you're you're leading with 5 minutes to go against the team 1235 01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:17,560 that went to the final four. I'm OK with that. 1236 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:19,520 Natos went. Two and three at Buffalo. 1237 01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:21,760 No, Natos went two and three in Buffalo. 1238 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,920 By the way, Scott, you got chided by one of our friends 1239 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,120 about saying, well, you know, you know, Dan Hurley only you 1240 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,200 know what? What did you say about his time 1241 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:35,680 at at Rhode Island? You used like he only made the 1242 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,160 tournament twice. It's like making the tournament 1243 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,000 twice at Rhode Island is essentially an act of God. 1244 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,120 Fair enough. But he, I mean, also he went two 1245 01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,160 and two. Like if we're going to start 1246 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,120 throwing out, yeah, you're not talking. 1247 01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,040 It's it's incredibly rare to have a coach. 1248 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:54,560 I'll note shock is smart went to a final four at VCU, which 1249 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,760 looked like a miracle of the time and then couldn't cut it at 1250 01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,920 Texas. So the tournament success at 1251 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:03,600 that level a lot of times is luck rather than anything else. 1252 01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,560 And you're I I'm still a firm believer. 1253 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,280 You have to look at the the records. 1254 01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,080 We were talking about Jay Wright earlier today and it's like, 1255 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,800 look at Jay Wright's record without Jaylen Brunson and it's 1256 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,120 like. It's not that great. 1257 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,480 So a lot of tournament stuff tends to be luck, but you need 1258 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,880 to get those. You stack the 20 to 25 win 1259 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,640 seasons on a regular basis and. Again, last I I don't want to 1260 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,320 keep defending it, but it's like, I know it's dumb, but like 1261 01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:31,000 we'll know in three years in. 3. Years if we're not if, if we're 1262 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,680 struggling to make the tournament in year 3, then you 1263 01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,440 look back and it's like, all right, you were right. 1264 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,400 One in like one in three. We got to look somewhere else. 1265 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,440 But you know what, I, I go back to what you, I don't want to 1266 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,080 keep defending it. Like what you said, when you 1267 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,520 look at the profile of the top 2025 coaches in the country, 1268 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:50,200 very few teams hire that elite #1 coach even. 1269 01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,000 You look through history, it just hasn't happened. 1270 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,040 A lot of times. Like Kentucky got Calipari. 1271 01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,200 I would say there wasn't really a Calipari out there this time. 1272 01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,320 You know, Kansas got Roy Williams. 1273 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,600 There's a lot of or no, sorry, North Carolina, I flipped that 1274 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,320 up. North Carolina got Roy Williams 1275 01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,360 from Kansas, a lot of extenuating circumstances that 1276 01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,600 wasn't there. Like as you said, this is the 1277 01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,600 profile of coaches that win. And again, it's like Archie 1278 01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:16,120 didn't work fine. Like, what does that mean? 1279 01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,280 You can never hire a young coach again who might be good? 1280 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,520 Like we just have to keep trying new things. 1281 01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:26,960 Like we just like no. Look, I mean, and, and I'm sure 1282 01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:32,040 we will get in one way or another the inside story about 1283 01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,680 how all of this went. And we talked a bunch about this 1284 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,080 and, you know, we talked about how it felt like it was a long 1285 01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,840 tail thing and, and we keep getting yelled at to stop 1286 01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,120 defending the hire by certain people in the chat, which is 1287 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,240 fine. But I look, ultimately I'm, I'm 1288 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,240 optimistic. I'm fascinated to see what we 1289 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,360 hear tomorrow and I'm fascinated to see what the roster ends up 1290 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,480 looking like. And I do think like ultimately, 1291 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,920 you know it, you do have to with a coach that not that many 1292 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,120 people were familiar with ahead of time, you do have to 1293 01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,880 essentially establish their bona fides in a way that makes sense 1294 01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,720 to everybody. And I thought, Bob, let's put 1295 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,200 the comment up again, made a great point. 1296 01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,520 When you get to the tournament three times out of six seasons 1297 01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,520 in a single big conference, it's damn impressive. 1298 01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,160 That's the ceiling for Valley teams. 1299 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:19,360 And when you make it as essentially an at large, when 1300 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,040 you're in 11 or 12 seed, you're essentially in at large 1301 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:23,840 territory, that's even more impressive. 1302 01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,680 So anyway, as we move forward, those are going to be a lot to 1303 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,240 talk about. We're not going to go terribly 1304 01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,120 much longer here. This was kind of an impromptu 1305 01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:32,840 podcast. We're still gathering a lot of 1306 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,760 information. But I'm, you know, this is a 1307 01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,960 good question by Nick, though. Would this have been the guy of 1308 01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:39,240 West Virginia made the tournament? 1309 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,680 I was, that's a great question. I was thinking the same thing 1310 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,880 and. I, I don't know, I mean, I, my, 1311 01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:49,040 my thing is this, the timing on this, this is the one thing I 1312 01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:54,720 find peculiar is the way that this went down and, and I can't 1313 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,680 reveal yet because I, because I don't want to betray any 1314 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:03,400 confidences. But like the, the idea that that 1315 01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,880 a press higher was going to be announced today and a press 1316 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,200 conference was going to be announced tomorrow was a huge 1317 01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,400 acceleration of the timeline that most people thought that 1318 01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:20,920 this was going to go. And so that I do wonder, was 1319 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,560 there a, were there some bids on the table where Indiana was 1320 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,800 like, you know what, maybe our first or second choice didn't 1321 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,000 hit, but this is the guy that we want and we need to go ahead and 1322 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,760 move. Or did Indiana just say, we're 1323 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,280 going to hire this guy? We thought he was going to be in 1324 01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,840 the tournament. He wasn't in the tournament. 1325 01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:40,840 And everybody was shocked by that. 1326 01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,720 We can't make a hire on Monday, but we're going to try to get 1327 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,840 this going as quickly as possible because we want to get 1328 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:47,640 on with it. Because as we talked about on 1329 01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:51,920 the podcast last week, you really need a coach in place. 1330 01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,440 You really need to have someone. This is why Miami went ahead and 1331 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,640 hired Jai Lucas. It's why what was the other the 1332 01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:02,000 other opening recently? But like, it's why a lot of 1333 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,480 these like North Carolina State's rushing to try to figure 1334 01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,280 out who they're going to hire 'cause you just have to have 1335 01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,160 somebody in place. You have to have somebody who's 1336 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,840 like, we're here, this is our roster, this is our thank you. 1337 01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:17,160 Florida State was the other one. We have to have somebody in the 1338 01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,160 mix so that we can talk to our current players, we can talk to 1339 01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,960 future players, we can put ourselves in a position where we 1340 01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,279 are competitive in the portal because this is where you're 1341 01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:30,680 going to be as we move forward. And you know, look, the question 1342 01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,560 of who was the mystery guy, that's what I have to go find 1343 01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,880 out and bring back to all you folks on the podcast. 1344 01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:40,319 I don't know, I've got some theories and I have AI do have a 1345 01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:43,160 theory that there was another candidate that might have been 1346 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,479 the lead and it's something like there was and again, I don't 1347 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,680 know how much of this to believe and that I haven't talked about 1348 01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:51,120 it on the show. I haven't talked about it on 1349 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:56,560 Twitter. There was a ton of back channel 1350 01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:02,800 talk on Saturday that a guy had either signed or was about to 1351 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:07,279 sign and then it all changed in about 48 hours. 1352 01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,680 And and whether that was one of the names that just got 1353 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,479 mentioned in chat or another name that hasn't been mentioned 1354 01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,960 in chat, I don't know if any of that was true. 1355 01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,200 It's possible there was no mystery candidate and there was 1356 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:23,720 just a smokescreen. But I do think it's fascinating 1357 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,880 that this kind of fell together so quickly. 1358 01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,040 One of the things we talked about and we've talked about 1359 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,399 throughout is how tight of a search this has been under Scott 1360 01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:34,680 Dolson. And I was just suspicious for 1361 01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,439 most of the day that this was the name that kept spilling out. 1362 01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,560 I was like, that seems like a smokescreen. 1363 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,040 And apparently it was not this time. 1364 01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:47,640 But it's clear that like, you know, the all the Chris Beard 1365 01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,120 talk was a smokescreen and there were other names that got thrown 1366 01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,880 into the mix. Brad Brownell, No idea. 1367 01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,880 Not sure what that situation was. 1368 01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,800 So we'll dig into that. We'll see if we can get some 1369 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,160 more information. Of course, anonymously because 1370 01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:02,480 that's how you have to do things these days. 1371 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,200 But it is interesting that it came to together the way it did. 1372 01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:10,200 But given all of that, it's almost all like in the past now 1373 01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,880 and we almost can't concentrate on it because we need to focus 1374 01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,040 on things moving forward. I'm going to be really 1375 01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,840 fascinated to see how the press conference goes tomorrow, what 1376 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,360 the roster looks like at the end of March, almost to the point 1377 01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,120 now where it's like, well, damn, now I wish Indiana hadn't backed 1378 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,080 out of the crown because I would kind of like to see Darren, 1379 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:31,960 Darren Devries like coach an early version of this team and 1380 01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:33,680 see, you know what that would look like. 1381 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,720 But the crown would still take us. 1382 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,280 I I probably would. I'm sure their rules are very 1383 01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:39,840 flexible if they wanted to just add a team. 1384 01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,320 I don't know if you've seen the roster for the crown tournament, 1385 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,160 but yeah, it's it's a little bit of God forbid it. 1386 01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:45,960 What if they lose a crown game? It's like, man, how could you 1387 01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:47,600 hire a guy who's O and one in the crown? 1388 01:10:48,480 --> 01:10:51,400 It's kind of like This is why new head coaches hires in 1389 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,240 football don't coach the bowl game, right. 1390 01:10:54,440 --> 01:10:56,720 You know, you never want to leave a bad taste in people's 1391 01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:58,760 mouths at the beginning of things anyway. 1392 01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:04,560 Well, look, great audience, over 730 people in the in the 1393 01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,320 audience right now. And and many of you have kind of 1394 01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:10,560 of come on and dropped off. We wanted to get something out 1395 01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,320 there tonight, yes. I want to and I don't want to 1396 01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,680 defend, but just what do we have ahead of us here is, you know, 1397 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,000 Signetti has to, I'm getting larger point with what Dolson 1398 01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:26,120 may have done for for IU. You know, Signetti has to kind 1399 01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,680 of, I don't say prove it, but, you know, can't come out with 1400 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:32,480 another Allen 2021 season. We can't go 3 and 10 in 1401 01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:34,760 football. But I don't see that as being 1402 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,120 something that happens if Signetti has another successful 1403 01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:39,800 year that's not making the College Football Playoff. 1404 01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,640 But if it's if it's he comes out and, you know, wins 7-8 games 1405 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,480 and it's like, all right, we have something here. 1406 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,360 And you know what he's done with baseball and with women's 1407 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,640 basketball. And if Devries can can get IU 1408 01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,440 back to it. I mean, it's awful to say, you 1409 01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,480 know, I'm the the king of I just want us to be final, you know, 1410 01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:58,000 final four bus. But it's like if we can just be 1411 01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,840 back to making the tournament every year safely, You know, if 1412 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,240 he can get you there, you know, you, you got to look at Tulsa's. 1413 01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,680 This is the best, you know, athletic director we've had in 1414 01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,440 25 years. Like he, he really got this 1415 01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:13,600 right. You would have to say he's going 1416 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,600 to get IU as healthy as it's ever been across all athletics 1417 01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:22,360 since maybe the the Mallory night days in like the late mid 1418 01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:24,160 80s. So that's saying a lot. 1419 01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,360 That's what's on the table right now because Dolson has done such 1420 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:31,200 a good job in all other areas. Now it has to keep going, you 1421 01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:33,360 know, it's, it's all, but that's where we're at right now. 1422 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,320 And I think that's a really cool place to be. 1423 01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,000 And that's a the, to me, the real positive outlook I'm going 1424 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,160 to have going forward. Had this conversation with our 1425 01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,000 friend Tricia Whitaker at the Big 10 tournament last week. 1426 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,200 She said if if he nails the basketball higher the way that 1427 01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,280 he appears to have nailed the football higher, like he could 1428 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,600 go down in history, it's like the best athletic director in IU 1429 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,520 history. There's a lot of space between 1430 01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,840 now and then. But you know, I do think, you 1431 01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,360 know, what I would advise everybody is let's not get over 1432 01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,760 our skis. Let's, you know, let's see how 1433 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,600 the roster shapes up. Let's beat Indiana State first. 1434 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,200 What's fascinating about everything as we move forward 1435 01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,640 into the next, the the spring and the summer, like this is 1436 01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:14,160 recruiting time. It's it's Huber's time. 1437 01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,800 It's, you know, golf outing in French Lick time. 1438 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,800 It's like, let's get people excited. 1439 01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,600 Let's get the NIL war chest up. Let's talk about what the 1440 01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,520 philosophy's going to be. And then you hit the ground 1441 01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:30,440 running A20 win season for IU in next year. 1442 01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,080 I mean, that sounds like a low, it sounds like a low bar. 1443 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:39,000 But if you think about it like, you know, Indiana's had 320 win 1444 01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,120 seasons in the last eight years, I think, or nine years. 1445 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,240 I mean, it's it's kind of like that statue uncorked on Sunday. 1446 01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,680 Well, you know, where it's like, well, you know, only Penn State 1447 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,800 and Washington and a couple of other teams have made the 1448 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,000 tournament less than Indiana has in the last decade. 1449 01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:57,040 So I I think the nice thing now and, and again, I'm curious to 1450 01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:58,360 see how the press conference goes tomorrow. 1451 01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,760 But the nice thing now is that there's first of all, the 1452 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,560 coaching search is over. And Scott, I couldn't be more 1453 01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,320 thrilled. I'm tired of talking about the 1454 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,080 coaching search. I'm ready to just talk about 1455 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,680 basketball again. We got it done before the 1456 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,320 tournament, so we don't have to like break up the middle of one 1457 01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,800 of the tournament days so that we can go talk about the higher. 1458 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,960 And now he gets to work on the roster. 1459 01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,840 The guys that are here, the guys that are coming in. 1460 01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,400 I'm fascinated to see what happens as we move forward with 1461 01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:25,160 all of that. And we'll have a lot to talk 1462 01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:26,800 about and we'll talk about it as well. 1463 01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,360 Our friends at Assembly Call as well, our friends at the X's and 1464 01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:34,640 Joe's podcast. There's so many great venues 1465 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:39,680 through which you can have legitimate, calm, sober talk 1466 01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,600 about IU basketball. I hope that you stick with us 1467 01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:44,760 here at the Back Home Network. We certainly appreciate you 1468 01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:48,800 folks for sticking with us. Yes, but I mean. 1469 01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,920 Can't say sober on the night we're drinking big glasses of 1470 01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:55,800 bourbon and whiskey. I'm not sure but hello to Well 1471 01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,280 hey, this is where you get it's Crimson cast after dark. 1472 01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,240 Yeah, we've seen it off. From Assembly. 1473 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,760 Dude, Ryan just joined. He's gonna go back and tell 1474 01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:04,480 Jerry we can't steal the the After Dark. 1475 01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:07,640 We gotta come up with something else like the the Crimson cast 1476 01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,760 Mansion, Crimson Cast PM or like Advil PM. 1477 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,120 That's that's a you go. You're going to marketing jail 1478 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,920 for that, Scott. Anyway, put you to sleep. 1479 01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:17,800 That's Yeah. All right. 1480 01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,360 We're gonna wrap it up. Thank you all for joining us. 1481 01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,520 And thank you to Four Roses for property liquefying. 1482 01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,920 Scott here. Throughout the course of the 1483 01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:29,000 podcast, we will catch you folks on the Flip side IU with a brand 1484 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,760 new basketball coach, Darren Devries. 1485 01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:33,200 Welcome. Coach Debreeze, looking forward 1486 01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:34,480 to seeing what happened to the Crimson cast. 1487 01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:36,000 Adult Swim. That's very hilarious. 1488 01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:37,880 Thank you. All right, for Scott. 1489 01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,360 I'm Galen. Thank you all for joining us 1490 01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,560 here. We'll see what happens tomorrow 1491 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:47,680 and beyond. And all I can say, folks, is 1492 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,440 stay never daunted and bring back the Bison. 1493 01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,960 We'll catch you folks on the flip side song everybody. 1494 01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,600 And goodbye, YouTube. Bye. 1495 01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:59,360 YouTube. It's been fun.