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You're listening to the Back 
Home Network presented by Home 

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Field Apparel. 
Welcome back to Crimson Cast. 

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Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield 
joining you. 

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It is February 16th as we record
this. 

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We're on the back end of 
February. 

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Thankfully, we're celebrating 
here in Bloomington by getting 4

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inches of snow overnight with 
another four in the forecast 

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later on. 
And Scott, I speak for many 

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people when I say nobody asked 
for this, like at all. 

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Was not expecting snow when I 
woke up this morning. 

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We went. 
We were at a friend's house last

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night watching the NBA All Star 
stuff late with our kids. 

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It's like raining. 
Go to bed, it's raining and wake

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up in the snow. 
Yeah, it was really, really wet 

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last night. 
I'm glad that it didn't turn to 

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snow before then 'cause it would
have not been not been fun, but 

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yeah. 
Another completely random free 

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thought. 
Of course we're walking into 

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stream yard and I have to put my
e-mail in and then it sends me 

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a, you know, 8 digit code that I
have to then put in. 

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And I wonder, like, are we gonna
see this is a like, I'm not 

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making fun of diseases at all, 
but like it's like I'm taking a 

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mini cognitive test once a day. 
Like I wonder if Alzheimer's 

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rates are going to go down or 
up. 

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Like I'm I'm texting my, you see
those studies like doing a 

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crossword today is good for your
mind. 

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Like every day I'm doing 
cognitive test studies of like, 

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remember this 4 digit code, plug
it into over there and do this. 

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It's just like, I just thought 
like, oh, this is like 433OO75 

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Remember that, remember that. 
And it's like this has this has 

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got to be good for me. 
Except that you don't have to 

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like, memorize it and repeat it 
later. 

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Like it's literally in your text
messages and you then have to 

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punch it into your. 
I know, but I'm I'm. 

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Going to I'm going to not do 
that, so I'm going to be the 

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one. 
This is actually this is this is

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actually my plan for getting a 
new Co host eventually is that 

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Scott eventually cannot remember
the codes that are sent to him 

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30 seconds earlier. 
It's a it's a foolproof plan, so

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and. 
Then I'm going to have AI Galen 

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on the other side. 
Just just rant, letting me rant.

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I for one, am looking forward to
AI Galen hosting this thing 

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during coaching searches because
God, it's it's real. 

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Galen's kind of done at this 
point with it. 

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But anyway, no, it's great to 
talk to you folks and, and 

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obviously it's great to still 
have Scott here. 

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He hasn't cognitively declined 
yet. 

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And we're going to talk about 
everything going on with IU 

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basketball. 
You know what? 

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Speaking of cognitive decline. 
You forgot to hit record. 

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On on the video I'm recording on
the podcast. 

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So all of that's gone now. 
We're not going to actually, no,

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you know what, for those of you 
who are listening, we're going 

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to keep that on there. 
Now I'm going to go ahead and 

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create the instance online. 
This is great. 

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We're letting everybody behind 
the curtain of how this 

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operates. 
See the problem folks is that we

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have a two stage process by 
which we have to get the 

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broadcast started, which really 
stinks sometimes because it 

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requires you at 9:00 on on 
Sunday mornings to remember all 

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these things. 
So. 

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Prove us as a as a researcher. 
One of us remembers numbers at 

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short times a day. 
The other one copies and pastes 

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from his text. 
And look at the results my 

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friends. 
I'll also note that one of us 

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does all of the producing on the
podcast, all of the setting up 

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of the of the the recordings, 
all of the publishing of the 

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recordings, all of the promotion
of things. 

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Occasionally that person might 
forget a step, but that's 'cause

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that person has like 3000 steps 
to remember, while Scott has 

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two. 
Like just Scott just needs to 

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show up and speak English, which
he struggles with occasionally. 

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I again, anger is a is a is a 
symptom of cognitive decline. 

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I understand. 
Anyway, so for the so the 

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YouTube audience is gonna miss 
all this, but those of you who 

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are still listening on Apple and
Spotify will get the benefits of

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all this, so we're gonna go and 
start again right now. 

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You're listening to the Back 
Home Network presented by Home 

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Field Apparel. 
Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 

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Galen Clavio. 
Scott Caulfield here. 

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For those who are listening on 
Spotify and Apple, this will be 

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a great way for us to test who's
in which audience. 

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Scott. 
Top get a decline test or funny 

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or not that's. 
Right the the we, we had a 

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little bit of a recording mishap
on the video side. 

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So you all are just joining us 
but the the audio only audience 

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got some extra stuff. 
Use our Spotify first two-minute

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numbers like so you can get 
everybody back to listen just 

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the first two minutes. 
That's right. 

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That's that's that's the 
algorithm speaking right there. 

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That's amazing. 
Anyway, Scott and I are back and

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Scott had a whole thing about 
cognitive decline, which then I 

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demonstrated as a proof of 
concept in that, that first 3 

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minutes of the show. 
So it's great, great start to 

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things. 
It's the 16th of February. 

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It's it's snowed in Bloomington.
Did it snow up in up in wine 

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country up there? 
Yes, up in wine country, the 

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grapes are they're they're, 
they're in rough shape. 

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I did have a new bourbon last 
night. 

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That's what we were doing last 
night, Bourbon on the rocks. 

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It was nice. 
Was this was this your first 

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time with bourbon on the rocks? 
No. 

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No, no, no. 
Just. 

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I'm just, I had a nice big ice 
cube. 

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It was just. 
I'm just setting the stage, my 

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friend, for everyone. 
No, we had about two inches of 

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snow last night, so over, like, 
3:00 AM because it happened way 

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after I went to bed. 
But not expecting snow this 

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morning. 
Are your hunting dogs excited 

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about the snow? 
Yes. 

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Yes. 
Yes. 

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Chester and I, I don't know, 
Rufus, are very excited about, I

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think. 
Mortimer. 

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Yeah. 
Mortimer Beauregard. 

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Yes, you gotta, you gotta give 
me a heads up like hey, I need 

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some fun dog hunting dog names. 
Give me a 2 minute. 

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They're they're your hunting 
dogs. 

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You should know what their names
are come on Anyway, we're 

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They had some new Creighton 

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They've obviously had some 
really good looking stuff on the

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the IU front coming out 
relatively recently. 

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Go to the website you'll find 
pretty much everything. 

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The rink side hoodies that they 
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John's collection. 
St. 

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John's Good team to follow. 
Might be a nice bandwagon team 

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to jump on for the tournament 
this year. 

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They've got quarter zips, 
they've got T-shirts, they've 

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got bomber jackets, just a 
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I. 
Blame home field for the 

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weather. 
It's like I think this is the 

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weather saying it's still 
hockey, you know, hockey jersey 

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season. 
It's not time to be done yet. 

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It's it is possible that Connor 
and the the folks up at home 

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field have like AI guess storm 
it wouldn't yeah is it do you 

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cloud seed for snow yes I I 
guess you have to right yeah you

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ever. 
Watched the movie Geo Storm. 

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No no, no. 
It's a it's a great bad movie. 

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It was on. 
Why did this get made? 

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It's great. 
OK. 

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Yeah. 
Anyway, use the code HOME 23 if 

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gets hot. 
They've got some great like 3, 

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like quarter three quarter 
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It's great. 

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Again, Home field apparel.com. 
Also give them a follow on the 

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socials and you'll find amazing 
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Again, Home field apparel.com. 
Also, we are on sub stack 

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00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,680
crimsoncast.substack.com. 
We've had a lot of folks signing

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up for the free newsletter 
recently, which we greatly 

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appreciate and we would like to 
invite the rest of you who 

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haven't to go ahead and 
subscribe with it. 

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Scott, do you know what today 
is? 

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Actually, you know what this 
this particular episode is? 

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Is this episode 2000? 
I know we're we're coming close 

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to it. 
No episode 1200, four hundred. 

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We've got a ways to go for 2000.
Cognitive decline, it's hitting,

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yeah, but it is, it is episode 
1200. 

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And obviously we're thrilled 
about that. 

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And I think also just generally 
thrilled that we've got so many 

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people in our Substack 
community. 

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00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,000
It allows us occasionally to do 
chats and to send podcasts right

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to your inbox. 
We occasionally have some VIP 

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videos, which are paid 
subscribers get, we don't do 

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them like every day, but we do 
some things there occasionally. 

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It's $5.00 a month, $50 a year 
if you'd like to do that. 

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But if you just want to do the 
free one, that's fine too. 

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And we appreciate having you 
folks joining us. 

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Join the Nearly 1200 subscribe. 
We only almost have one 

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00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,040
subscriber for every episode 
that we've done. 

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So give every every subscriber 
gets an episode. 

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It's exciting, looking forward 
to it. 

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So we'll we'll be a stop. 
Me when we when we're in month 

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five of the coaching search, 
that'll be one of our we just go

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00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,480
to the subscriber list. 
All right, Mark, you're getting 

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00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,520
episode 1124. 
Just start handing them out. 

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00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,480
So anyway, 
crimsoncast.substack.com Also 

184
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,360
check out the Back Home Network 
YouTube channel. 

185
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,040
Just search Back Home Network on
YouTube. 

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00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,920
We've got over 7100 subscribers 
there and you get all of the 

187
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,920
shows in video format, including
Assembly Call, the Doing the 

188
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,640
Work podcast, all those shows in
the network. 

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00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,400
It's a great place to be. 
Anyway, let's dive in. 

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00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,360
Let's talk briefly about the 
game that happened on Friday, 

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Indiana losing at home to UCLA. 
And you know, Scott, this was 

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one of those games that looked 
like most of the other games 

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that Indiana's played in the Big
10 so far this season. 

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They they fall behind early. 
And it was just one of those 

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games where, like Indiana always
felt about 10 points away from 

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the team that was leading them, 
in this case UCLA. 

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And it kind of went back and 
forth. 

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There were moments when, you 
know, one point Indiana got it 

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to five and then it was back up 
to 10. 

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And then it'd be back down to 
seven and then it was back up to

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10. 
UCLA didn't really put it away. 

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Indiana puts a rush on at the 
end, gets it to within 2, has an

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inbounds play under their own 
basket, which was actually 

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designed fairly well. 
They get a good shot, they miss 

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it, and that was basically the 
ball game. 

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I mean, we kind of knew how this
was going to go. 

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This played out very similar you
you hoped maybe UCL as Rd. 

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00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,840
struggles in the Eastern and 
Central time zone might come 

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back to bite them in this one. 
But as it turned out, Indiana 

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just couldn't quite get the job 
done. 

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00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,240
Did you take anything noteworthy
out of this game that you hadn't

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already seen in a previous game?
No, well, no, I mean the the 

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only noteworthy thing is it 
seems to be the miles Rice. 

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The ball seems to find him at 
the end of games like a a you 

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know, a magnet finds a 
refrigerator like it's wild how 

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it goes to him. 
You did mention like for all the

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crap we've given Woodson about 
end of game stuff, that final 

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play from, you know, Mackenzie 
and Baca was a great, well 

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00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,480
designed play. 
He did everything you could and 

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he didn't hit a shot. 
It's like guys missed shots. 

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It is it is what it is. 
It sucks. 

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00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,520
He also had the little, you 
know, put backer before that 

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that didn't go in. 
But you know, I, I'm not my 

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thought was this, I don't want 
to get into a discussion about 

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this, but it is kind of, you 
know, we had talks about, you 

226
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,640
know, apathy and like this is 
apathy. 

227
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,520
You know, no one's showing up at
the at the game. 

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00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,560
To me, it's like this is kind of
what apathy is that, you know, 

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00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,400
talking to other fans myself, 
it's kind of like I watched the 

230
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,320
game. 
It's like, all right, well, we 

231
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,400
lost, like, all right, moving 
on. 

232
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,800
It's like, I, I wasn't expecting
a win. 

233
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,360
A loss sucks, but it's like I 
shook it off real quick because 

234
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,800
we're kind of in this weird zone
of like nothing really matters 

235
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,360
until we get a new coach because
we're probably not going to make

236
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,120
the tournament unless we just 
rattle off like if we win 3 or 4

237
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,320
at, you know, if we'd won this 
and then, you know, beat Purdue 

238
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,440
and then beat Penn State. 
So it's like, huh, maybe 

239
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,560
something's going on. 
But it, it felt like that 

240
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,480
Michigan State win is going to 
be the one that we look back on 

241
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,960
in, you know, seven years. 
Like we look back at that, you 

242
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,440
know, stretch when Archie had 
like 8 losses and there's like, 

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00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,160
you know, he went eight for 9 
and there's the one win in the 

244
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,560
middle. 
I think that was also Michigan 

245
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,960
State, oddly. 
But anyway, that, that's my main

246
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,800
thought is I, I don't want to 
get into a big, you know, apathy

247
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,240
discussion. 
But I do think for a lot of 

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00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,400
fans, listening to like, you 
know, the assembly call 

249
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,000
afterwards is kind of like we 
all expected a loss and we're 

250
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,560
kind of like, all right, well, 
whatever. 

251
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,200
Which isn't, isn't great, but it
is, It's kind of where we're 

252
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,960
going to be for the next 4 
weeks. 

253
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,360
I think about two weeks ago, it 
was after that game at Purdue, 

254
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,880
we talked about like, OK, was 
that was that the beginning of 

255
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,000
something or was that the end of
it all? 

256
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,600
I, I heard someone refer to that
Purdue game as the death rattle.

257
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,280
You know, you play, you play 
well, like you show some life 

258
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,880
and then you you don't actually 
end up winning the game at the 

259
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,040
end. 
The Michigan State game kind of,

260
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,000
you know, are you familiar with 
the concept of the dead cat 

261
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,760
bounce in in stocks where you 
know, a declining stock like 

262
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,040
hits a point where it's low 
enough that there's some 

263
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,440
capitalization it the price goes
up and then it just sinks again 

264
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,280
because it's not actually a 
recovery. 

265
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,720
It's just a thing that is a 
brief resurgent that they often 

266
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,880
call it a suckers rally in stock
trading. 

267
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,040
And that's essentially what I 
felt like that Michigan State 

268
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,080
game was like. 
It was a it and it's one of 

269
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,920
those things where I'm not, I 
know it sounds like I'm trying 

270
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,720
to take away from IU, but 
realistically, like they played 

271
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,120
well there. 
The problem is that it's just 

272
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,840
not sustainable for IU. 
That game, Indiana had a 

273
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:34,000
remarkable ability to score 
effectively, you know, against 

274
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,400
Michigan State compared to what 
they would normally do. 

275
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,680
And defensively, they really 
stymied Michigan State in a way 

276
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,640
that was surprising given the 
fact that Michigan State, and 

277
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,000
look what they did last night, 
they went in and beat Illinois. 

278
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,520
At Illinois. 
Sometimes you play well enough 

279
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,320
to win and the opponent does not
play well enough to win, which I

280
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,080
think we've been saying on this 
podcast for a month now, Scott. 

281
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,800
Michigan State there, I I looked
at 2019, Archie lost 12 to 13 

282
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,000
games and won a game at Michigan
State in the middle of it. 

283
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,120
And it's like, you look back and
you're not like, oh man. 

284
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,400
I think they were really close 
to serving in the corner after 

285
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,720
that Michigan State game. 
It's just it historically looks 

286
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,720
like, Oh, that's a weird 
outlier. 

287
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,640
Who would have ever thought that
East Lansing would be the place 

288
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,520
where we would like get the dead
cat bounces for these bad 

289
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,160
seasons that Indiana's had? 
It's it's why it'd be like if it

290
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,760
was happening in Mackey, you 
know, except with victories. 

291
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,880
And obviously, I mean, Indiana 
has won win there in the last 

292
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,760
few years, but it is kind of 
peculiar given how much of A 

293
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,280
House of horrors that place has 
been. 

294
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,280
Of course, we still can't win in
Madison, but at least with we 

295
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,320
kind of own East Lansing now, 
which is nice. 

296
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:44,440
So yeah, that's right. 
So anyway, they lose to UCLA and

297
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,520
I think the biggest thing that 
stands out to me, and again, 

298
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400
it's like it's you can almost, 
you're almost at a point where 

299
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,160
you can't really interrogate the
season any more than you have. 

300
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,120
And and that's the thing I think
that stuck out to me the most 

301
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,280
about UCLA is it's just the same
team. 

302
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,560
It's a team that's Got Talent. 
It's a team that clearly made 

303
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,320
many moments in key spots in the
game, doesn't really know what 

304
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,880
it's doing. 
And you've got one or two 

305
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,840
players out there that seem to 
know what they're doing. 

306
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,120
And then there's a lot of 
confusion. 

307
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,920
There's a lot of yelling in the 
huddle, there's a lot of 

308
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,200
pointing and people getting 
upset with each other. 

309
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,880
It just seems like a team that's
not well organized and and not 

310
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,200
executing what's being said, 
which calls into question both 

311
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,480
the execution and the people 
that are asking them to do the 

312
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,960
executing. 
And again, all you have to do. 

313
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,560
I think if you look at the raw 
efficiency numbers for IU, the 

314
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,640
last time they held an opponent 
to under a point per possession 

315
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,800
was the USC game which was on 
the 8th of January. 

316
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:39,720
Right. 
Maybe it's us. 

317
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,840
Yeah, perhaps that's so we we 
need to go back together and and

318
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,240
sit. 
The cast is in the house. 

319
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,520
Right. 
Then we need box seats for this.

320
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,080
But now you brought up another 
good point, which will wrap this

321
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:57,800
particular part of the podcast 
on which is I the the apathy is 

322
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,920
there in force. 
Like the number of people I 

323
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:04,960
talked to who didn't even watch 
the game, who were like, oh, we 

324
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,240
lost again last night. 
I mean, the the hall was in 

325
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,920
fairly good shape. 
And you could tell even at the 

326
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,520
end of the game, like it was not
its full throat itself. 

327
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,680
There's just, you know, on the 
one hand, it's like announcing 

328
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,400
that Woodson was not going to be
returning was, I think very 

329
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,480
helpful in terms of turning down
the the top level heat on 

330
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,800
Woodson. 
That was important and the 

331
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,120
players as well. 
But what it's done is it's kind 

332
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,200
of neutered the Hall a bit in 
terms of what it normally does. 

333
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,400
And I don't know why anybody 
would be surprised by that. 

334
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,600
I'm sure the Purdue game, it'll 
be back to somewhat of its 

335
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,280
normal self, but it really does 
feel like everybody's just 

336
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:46,360
playing the string out players, 
coaches and fans across the 

337
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,400
board. 
So it's. 

338
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,680
And it could have been it, it, 
I, I agree with all of that, 

339
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,120
Like it's, it's what needed to 
be done. 

340
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,040
It, it had they won that game, 
like I said, if they won that 

341
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,720
game and then they won the 
Purdue game, it would have, it 

342
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,000
would have been even a more 
peculiar situation because then 

343
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,880
it's like, holy crap, like this.
They they, they finally figured 

344
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,400
it out. 
And I guess that could still 

345
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,599
happen, you know, if, if they 
like, but The thing is, if they 

346
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,880
beat Penn State and they beat 
Washington and they beat Oregon,

347
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,079
they could get a little 
three-game winning streak there.

348
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,640
I would urge people to be like 
again, let's I'm not sure they 

349
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,280
figured out it could just be the
level of opponent that they're 

350
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,720
playing. 
You know, the the good news is 

351
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,080
looking at the projections for 
Big 10 standings, you know, Penn

352
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,840
State is Penn State, Washington,
Northwestern just look locked 

353
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,600
into under seven wins and you 
know, Indiana should get one 

354
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,560
more. 
And even if they don't, they 

355
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,760
might still finish ahead of 
Northwestern, Washington, Penn 

356
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,560
State. 
Like I, I think, and I say this 

357
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,000
not jokingly, I think them 
making the Big 10 tournament is 

358
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,400
safe. 
So that joke can be off the 

359
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,600
table. 
And that'll be the the the Soul 

360
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,320
tournament they make this year. 
Oh, I don't know. 

361
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,840
I, I don't know if I agree. 
I mean, they're, they were in 

362
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,280
Joe Leonardi's first four out 
yesterday, like post UCLA loss. 

363
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:07,160
And I'm just like, if they beat 
Purdue, if they win at Oregon, 

364
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,840
if they any, or, you know, the 
end the game at Ohio State, like

365
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,360
if they win two out of those 3 
along with the two that you 

366
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,280
would expect that they would win
Penn State, who I think has just

367
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,880
given up on basketball at this 
point. 

368
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,600
You know, the game at 
Washington, I think Washington 

369
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,840
has been a little feistier. 
But I I'm not asking for IU to 

370
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,760
be in the NCAA tournament 
because again, it's I'm kind of 

371
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,960
in the boat with everybody else 
who's like, can we please just 

372
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,360
get the season over with? 
Because it just kind of has gone

373
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,320
nowhere. 
You're 15 and 11, but you win 9 

374
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,120
games in the conference and I 
think you've got an A, a decent 

375
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,200
chance of being at the end of 
the bubble because the bubble is

376
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,560
not very good. 
The bubble is not a particularly

377
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,600
strong bubble. 
So I just would caution 

378
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,040
everybody who's like, well, hey,
no more tournament. 

379
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,680
I think at the very least this 
team will have the opportunity, 

380
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,680
maybe even the mandated 
opportunity to be in the NIT 

381
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,160
because if they're one of the 
first four out, they're one of 

382
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,880
the top 4 seeds in the NIT at 
that point. 

383
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,520
It would be interesting like 
we've we've have seen schools 

384
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,680
opt out of that, but I do wonder
if that happens here or not. 

385
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,320
I'll be curious to see how IU 
decides to handle that. 

386
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,840
It would be an interesting 
scenario both directions. 

387
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,000
Is, isn't this year also the the
Big Crown tournament at the end 

388
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,320
of the season? 
Or is that next year? 

389
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,560
It's 2025. 
I've lost track. 

390
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,200
I think you're right. 
It is this time, Yeah. 

391
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,320
So, and that's also a big 10 Fox
Sports connection. 

392
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,440
So I mean, I, I take it back 
because they don't make the NIT.

393
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,200
They'll they'll be in the big 
the big crown or whatever the 

394
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,400
hell it is. 
It's just, you know, at least 

395
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,880
get an that's an invite that you
can turn down. 

396
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,920
And then finally, you can talk 
Daddy like you can tell Fox 

397
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,760
like, hey, we're we're we're not
going to provide content for you

398
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,080
like that's. 
The big fox fox. 

399
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,000
Like after all we did for you 
people, you know, it's, it's, 

400
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:52,760
it's. 
Like you, you have these 

401
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,320
situations where it's like teams
are done and we just want to be 

402
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,600
done and go to our coach search.
It's like Fox is like we don't 

403
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,080
give an S Like we need content 
for you to play and go get your 

404
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,400
butt kicked in the big crown. 
Yeah, the Big Crown launches 

405
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,040
this year. 
That's, well, that's, that's not

406
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,440
ideal, but yeah, the college 
basketball crown, yeah, it 

407
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:16,720
launches 2 automatic qualifiers 
from each of the Big E Big 10 

408
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,760
and Big 12, as well as 10 at 
large teams will be selected 

409
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,520
from the pool of teams that did 
not qualify for the NCAA 

410
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,840
tournament. 
According to the Wikipedia page,

411
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:31,640
they still hadn't like announced
what the criteria were, so. 

412
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,720
I'm right now Googling college 
basketball crown bracketology. 

413
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,880
Yeah, I haven't seen any 
brackets pop up on this yet. 

414
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,360
It's a little bit surprising. 
There's not there's not a 

415
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,920
bracketologist for like we've 
always joked, when you go to NIT

416
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,160
bracketology, it's like, I feel 
like I'm in, you know, the silk,

417
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,120
the dark web. 
I know like a level below where 

418
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,520
it's like, oh like I could buy 
Iranian arms and get the 

419
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,400
projection of the college. 
Basketball crown. 

420
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,840
I will note that Todd Golden, 
not the Florida coach, but the 

421
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,240
the writer for Indiana Hoosiers 
SI wrote an article about this 

422
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,920
about a week and a half ago. 
And IU is the the team that's 

423
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,640
pictured in the the thing. 
So I think we're getting more 

424
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,760
basketball. 
I do wonder at this point, 

425
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,560
though, in this kind of 
transitions to something else I 

426
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,240
wanted to talk about, does 
Indiana want to be in this? 

427
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,480
We know, of course, Indiana 
turned it down the NIT last 

428
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,520
year. 
They weren't going to be a 

429
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,600
number one seed in the NIT. 
So I think that was part of the 

430
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,360
equation there. 
There was an original comment 

431
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,720
that contractually the Big 10 
teams along with the other two 

432
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,760
conferences would be required 
contractually to be in this 

433
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,280
thing. 
So if Indiana ends up in this, 

434
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,360
is Mike Woodson still coaching 
the team or is he or do they 

435
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,760
make a change there? 
The whole thing is very weird 

436
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,960
and and I do think we need to 
comment on the fact that you've 

437
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,720
now seen two games in a row 
where Mike Woodson has not done 

438
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,240
radio with Don Fisher. 
You know, I mean, he'd sent 

439
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,320
Calvert Chaney prior to the 
Michigan State game. 

440
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,520
They sent another staff member, 
not a coach, but like the a 

441
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,360
support staff member on the 
pregame radio on the on Friday 

442
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:20,360
for the UCLA game. 
Now I've got a lot of thoughts 

443
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:21,880
on that. 
I, I don't think we need to 

444
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,760
necessarily delve into now, I do
think it's kind of ridiculous 

445
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,200
that. 
But it's lame. 

446
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,480
I don't want to dig into it 
either, but it's it's lame. 

447
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,800
And for a guy who's been a 
professional coach his entire 

448
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,800
career, who's coached in New 
York and dealt with media, this 

449
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,040
is just petty. 
And I get it, like you, this is 

450
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,040
your universe, your university, 
and you're pissed because you 

451
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,160
feel like you should be being 
treated better. 

452
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,920
That's fine. 
But go do your interviews. 

453
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,880
I mean, I like, I like I've 
always joked, we know Don Fisher

454
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,200
like it's an Indiana pregame 
interview. 

455
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,040
He's not going to ask you hard 
hitting questions. 

456
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,000
Not going to be like, well, 
Mike, you really have sucked the

457
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,040
last couple of weeks. 
Like tell like it's going to be,

458
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,280
hey, Mike, you guys are really 
turning the corner, you know, 

459
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,480
after that loss to Michigan. 
I mean, he's going to throw 

460
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,960
softballs to you. 
To me. 

461
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,320
It's it's lame, it's weak. 
And for all the crap you give, 

462
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,720
you know, college kids, 1920 
year olds for, you know, the, 

463
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,400
the way they handle things 
sometimes to me, this is this is

464
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,160
really piss poor. 
I just, I mean, to me, it's a, 

465
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,440
it's a really bad reflection. 
And it's like, dude, man up and 

466
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,400
do your job. 
This is not hard hitting 

467
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,200
interviews. 
This is Don Fisher before the 

468
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,360
game. 
Well. 

469
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,320
And I guess what, what bothers 
me on top of everything you just

470
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,640
said, 'cause I think it's 
accurate is that he's, he is 

471
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,440
required to go do the post game 
interview, the press conference,

472
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,200
which he, he did. 
It's so it's like the, the idea 

473
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,160
that you're, you're drawing 
lines there and you're not 

474
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,680
doing, you know, what you're 
normally obligated to do with 

475
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,440
your own radio is pretty lame. 
And it's also I, I don't know, I

476
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,600
just, I've been very not overly 
critical, but I think we've been

477
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,120
consistently critical of Woodson
when he's gone in and his 

478
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,160
message has essentially been, 
well, it's not really my fault. 

479
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,920
You know, and he did that again 
in this UCLA game. 

480
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,960
You know, he had a quote because
someone asked about like his his

481
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,360
his upperclassmen not getting 
the job done in crunch time. 

482
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,120
And, you know, he made some set 
of comments about like all the 

483
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,360
winnable games they've had. 
And then he had a quote at the 

484
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,000
end there, which is like, I'll 
take responsibility as the 

485
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,320
coach, even though I don't miss 
a shot or it or miss a defensive

486
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,400
assignment. 
And it's like that we talked 

487
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,280
about this on the show a couple 
of weeks ago. 

488
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,240
And it's just like this is part 
of the problem is there's just a

489
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,480
lack of accountability. 
And I think you you hit the nail

490
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,720
on the head, Scott, Like this is
part of your professional 

491
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,240
responsibilities and you can be 
sore about the circumstances of 

492
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,240
things, but it's it's just the 
whole thing has been dealt with 

493
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,800
in an unprofessional manner by 
Woodson. 

494
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,400
And the way that he's handled 
these postgame press conferences

495
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,920
is kind of fit right into that 
same thing. 

496
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,120
And now not doing, you know, pre
and post game radio. 

497
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,120
It it just it's it's part of the
same thing. 

498
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:06,760
It looks petty, as you said, but
it just kind of it, it doesn't 

499
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:12,360
have that sense of like there's 
a certain level of of gravitas 

500
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,040
that goes with being the college
basketball coach at Indiana 

501
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,960
University. 
Like you, you need to conduct 

502
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,360
yourself that way. 
And I feel like, you know, as 

503
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,000
much as there's been controversy
and back and forth about 

504
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:26,560
Woodson's comments during Senior
Day last year, they fit right 

505
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,720
into this pattern. 
And you know, when you when you 

506
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,160
think about the totality of 
Woodson's comments over time, 

507
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,840
public, his public comments and 
the way that he's handled these 

508
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,200
things. 
And now to essentially be 

509
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,880
skipping out on on obligations 
where you're supposed to talk to

510
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:46,400
the fans, it it's really 
disappointing because from the 

511
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,200
standpoint of what was supposed 
to be a guy who understood IU 

512
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,680
basketball and understood like 
the the the positioning of that 

513
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,480
within the larger constellation 
of college basketball. 

514
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,240
This is yet another set of 
circumstances where you're like,

515
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,120
you're you're just you're acting
like you're above this position,

516
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,240
but like somehow those rules 
don't apply to you. 

517
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,560
And you, and you brought up a 
good point earlier where you 

518
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,200
said we would criticize players 
who acted petty or acted 

519
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,960
self-centered with all of these 
things. 

520
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,000
Woodson largely seems to be 
escaping that level of 

521
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,840
criticism, at least among like 
the the people that are 

522
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,000
regularly covering the team, 
which is an interesting thing to

523
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,280
watch. 
Everybody's giving him this pad.

524
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,840
No one's asking him questions 
about the circumstance. 

525
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,320
And, and all of it seems to 
center around what we want Mike 

526
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,040
Woodson to leave with some 
dignity. 

527
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,760
And yet there's not a lot of 
that intrinsic dignity that's 

528
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,320
being conducted in the way that 
he's handling some of these 

529
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,240
things, including some of the 
comments he's making in the 

530
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,320
postgame press conferences. 
It's just disappointing to 

531
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,240
watch, no? 
It is and and the the thing that

532
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,400
you, you talked about like, you 
know, bringing back an IU coach 

533
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,280
and bringing back an IU player 
who has ties, you know, and 

534
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,760
again, this is I'm going to echo
something you said, which is 

535
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,880
true, Like most coaches just 
turn on you think you called it 

536
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,360
auto speak, which I love that 
term. 

537
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,640
Like they just go into auto 
speak mode and we got, you know,

538
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,680
really got to work on that 
defense and your shots just 

539
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,800
aren't falling and it's tough on
the road. 

540
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,840
They just, they say cliches over
and over again just fine. 

541
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,160
But you, you would expect, you 
know, for all this talk of you, 

542
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
we're bringing back a guy who 
understands Indiana and 

543
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,520
understands that, you know, 
this. 

544
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
You would think there would kind
of be a just a couple of moments

545
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,560
like this. 
Like I'm really broken up. 

546
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,640
Like I just, I can't believe 
that this is killing me. 

547
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,440
I can't believe it, you know, 
that that's always been. 

548
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,760
I don't want to turn into a 
bitch on Woodson's session, but 

549
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,880
it's like that's always been. 
I think the thing that has held 

550
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,480
fans at a bit of an arm's length
is we love this program and we 

551
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,520
care about it. 
And some people go to extreme 

552
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,040
lengths both monetarily and time
wise for this program. 

553
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,840
And it always felt like Woodson 
was kind of doing this as a 

554
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,560
coronation. 
And like, I, I don't have to do 

555
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,280
that much and, you know, we can 
get by and what's the minimum 

556
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,720
amount required to do? 
And I, I think that starts to 

557
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,160
build up some resentment. 
This is exactly one of those 

558
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,280
things where I think IU fans 
would just kind of like to hear 

559
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,760
the coach who's a former player 
be on there and be like, this 

560
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,720
sucks like this really sucks. 
Like I like to win. 

561
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,600
I'm used to winning like this 
absolutely sucks. 

562
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,480
This is gutting me. 
I was up all night. 

563
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,160
Whether it's even true. 
I I think they would just like 

564
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,160
to hear it and then just to be 
pissed, you know, just not even 

565
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,120
do it. 
It just, it feels very as if 

566
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,000
he's not as invested as the fans
at times, which I know is not 

567
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,880
the case, but it's like I, I, I,
I'm having a hard time finding 

568
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,480
evidence to say that isn't true.
So we can get all, I don't want 

569
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,920
to, we don't need to belabor the
point, but it's like it is, it's

570
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,080
really a bummer. 
And, and it's for those people 

571
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,200
who, the last thing I'll say is 
this is again, why it's really 

572
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,520
frustrating on the outside for 
people nationally just to hear 

573
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,960
some of those voices being like,
I mean, Indian fans, like they 

574
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,360
just, they, they, they want too 
much. 

575
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,280
It's like there's a lot of 
little nuances here that really 

576
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,120
do matter. 
And for people who spend a lot 

577
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,720
of time and effort following a 
program and, and investing in a 

578
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,160
program, those little nuances 
matter. 

579
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,800
And so that's where you do get 
pissed at the national media 

580
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,120
just being like, oh, they, what 
do you guys expect? 

581
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,560
Like you're, you're, you're past
your prime. 

582
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,720
Like you should be happy you 
have Woods. 

583
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Yeah, well, I don't know that 
anybody said specifically that 

584
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,160
recently, but I your your point 
is well taken. 

585
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,120
Well, let's pivot to talk about 
that a little bit. 

586
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,120
So, you know, there's five 
regular season games left for IU

587
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,160
and then you've got at least one
game in the Big 10 tournament 

588
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,760
because as you noted, IU is 
going to make the Big 10 

589
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,600
tournament at as, as things are 
said now, Penn State losing 

590
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,200
again yesterday. 
So now you've got Northwestern, 

591
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Washington and Penn State all 
with four win, four wins, four 

592
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,800
wins and three wins, Minnesota 
with five, Rutgers with five, 

593
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,200
Iowa with five, and then 
Indiana's got six. 

594
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,640
So the chances of Indiana losing
out and one of those remaining 

595
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,240
teams winning to the point where
they would eclipse IU seem low 

596
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,040
at this stage. 
And so you're looking at IU 

597
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,200
playing in the first round of 
the Big 10 tournament. 

598
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,080
Seating is hard to say because 
Indiana's got some tiebreakers 

599
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,600
in this mix. 
You know, they, they, they lose 

600
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,880
the tiebreaker to Nebraska, they
lose a tiebreaker to Iowa, but 

601
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,880
they have the tiebreaker against
USC. 

602
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,680
If they beat Oregon, they'd have
the tiebreaker against Oregon. 

603
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,120
So they could really be seated 
kind of anywhere between 

604
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,840
probably 9th and 15th. 
You like the fact that teams 

605
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,040
don't make the Big 10 
tournament? 

606
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,720
Like, I understand it 
logistically this conference is 

607
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,080
so big, but I, I again, this is 
old man, get off my lawn. 

608
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,640
I think you're losing something 
every time you, you pull a 

609
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,120
thread away that it, it, you 
know, I used to joke that the 

610
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,600
NCAA tournament really is 
everyone is in the tournament. 

611
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,120
It's just you have small bracket
tournaments like the big, the 

612
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,800
big 10 is its own like 
qualifying tournament, but you 

613
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,560
know, theoretically it's a 312 
team tournament. 

614
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,520
It's just broken up a different,
a bunch of different brackets 

615
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,600
that meets 68. 
You've now lost that like 

616
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,640
there's three teams, the big 10 
that can't make it again. 

617
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,440
I don't think Penn State was 
going to make a run to the Final

618
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,200
four. 
But it's just I, I, I just want 

619
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,160
to say here, I don't like it, 
but that's all. 

620
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,800
But I understand logistically 
you have to do it. 

621
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,120
I just I don't like it. 
I mean, I'm, I don't 

622
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,000
particularly care of one way or 
the other about who's in the Big

623
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,120
10 tournament once you get past 
like the top ten teams in the 

624
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,160
conference. 
And so I, you know, there's a 

625
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,880
lot of bad basketball that gets 
played during the Big 10 

626
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,920
tournament just because of the 
way that it's set up. 

627
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,640
And I mean, do we really want to
watch Penn State one more time? 

628
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,760
I understand the idea that, 
well, you got to let everybody 

629
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,560
in or not, but a lot of smaller 
conferences have changed their 

630
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,600
approach on this because the 
more you make your top teams 

631
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,240
play during this time period, 
the more chances they have to 

632
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,800
lose. 
And I don't know that we 

633
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,280
necessarily need that at the 
conference tournament level 

634
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,680
because there's just not a good 
like most of these conference 

635
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,720
tournaments were invented or 
created or conceived at a time 

636
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,200
when you had 891011 teams per 
conference. 

637
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,720
They weren't built for 15161718 
team conferences. 

638
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,400
And, you know, I would feel bad 
if it was like a small 

639
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,320
conference, but only to a 
certain point with the large 

640
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,120
conferences. 
Like you've, you have 20 games 

641
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,960
in which to demonstrate your 
worth. 

642
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,200
If you can't win more than four 
or five of those 20 games, like 

643
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,400
that's not a scheduling error. 
That's just you being a bad 

644
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,960
basketball team. 
So no, I have no no qualms with 

645
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,480
it whatsoever. 
And I'm I'm a guy who, as you 

646
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,520
all know, supports expanding the
NCAA tournament field in terms 

647
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,480
of the total number of teams. 
So it's not like I have a 

648
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,800
problem with teams, you know, 
with with tournaments being 

649
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,560
larger, but I don't really see a
great argument for letting the 

650
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,360
bottom three teams into the Big 
10 tournament any more than I 

651
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,800
would see it in the SEC or some 
of the other conferences that 

652
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,760
are this size. 
Fairpoint And I guess you know, 

653
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,360
like my, my thought goes to the 
year like Illinois was the worst

654
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,520
team in the Big 10 and made it 
to the finals. 

655
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,520
But like, that was they were 
they were the 11th team, whereas

656
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,840
Penn State is now the 18th team.
That's the thing. 

657
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,240
Like the? 
Greggs are getting more 

658
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,520
draggier. 
So anyway. 

659
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:03,960
Go. 
That's just, that's kind of my 

660
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,240
point. 
It's like I think you could make

661
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,840
an argument with the 10, you 
know, 9/10/11 team conferences. 

662
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Yeah, everybody in and that was 
easy to do. 

663
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,600
But like, what are you going to 
have six days of conference 

664
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,440
tournament? 
That seems kind of pointless 

665
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,360
really. 
Like you lose, you lose people's

666
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,400
attention by that stage. 
Because they're also student 

667
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,520
athletes. 
Well, you know, you can bring 

668
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,760
the tutors with you, right? 
So anyway, so we've got that 

669
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,240
much time left in the season 
and, you know, from the 

670
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,400
standpoint of what to watch for 
moving forward, I I just don't 

671
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,080
know with Indiana, what like 
what do you get excited about 

672
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,440
that? 
There's normally here, it'd be 

673
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,480
like, all right, well, let's see
how the younger players are 

674
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,760
playing. 
Let's let's not that a lot of 

675
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,440
them are getting a lot of 
minutes at this point, you know,

676
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,600
but you could see like, well, 
maybe maybe your, your backcourt

677
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560
duo that you brought in, in the 
transfer portal can continue to 

678
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,200
gain chemistry. 
And then you look at them as 

679
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,520
like, well, they haven't played 
together hardly at all with Rice

680
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,560
being increasingly unreliable 
and and Carlyle being injured. 

681
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,760
And I think playing for the 
first time in a couple of weeks 

682
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,480
in that UCLA game, you know, 
Bryson Tucker's been spotty at 

683
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,600
best. 
And then the rest of the guys, 

684
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,560
even even the guys I just 
mentioned, with a looming 

685
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,920
coaching change, you don't know 
if those guys are even going to 

686
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,679
be back, you know? 
So it is a real tough spot 

687
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:20,199
because I don't even know that 
IU fans have a clear sense of 

688
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,040
what to be watching for. 
No, I mean it's because that is 

689
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,480
that is the the other side 
reality of the new nil world is 

690
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,159
and I'm just I'm using names of 
players. 

691
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,719
I obviously know nothing, but 
like in a 10 years ago, it'd be 

692
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,280
like all right, well, you know, 
Mackenzie and Baca, we've seen 

693
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,639
him grow up. 
Can he take another leap? 

694
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,120
You know, you've seen renew turn
into a solid, you know, great 

695
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,719
post player. 
Can he How can he look when he's

696
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,120
healthy all year? 
But I would assume both those 

697
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,080
guys are in the portal like 
they, they might come back, but 

698
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,360
I would have, if they're, if 
they're doing their due 

699
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,400
diligence, they probably should 
at least put their name in the 

700
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,560
portal with a coaching change 
and see what they can get. 

701
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,960
They might come back. 
But I mean, that is I would 

702
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,680
expect everyone to go into the 
portal and like you said, you 

703
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,560
know, our backcourt, you know, 
maybe it's Miles Rice and 

704
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,600
Carlisle, but they haven't 
played together and Miles Rice, 

705
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,480
but why would he not at least 
test his options? 

706
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,360
So I mean that that is a trouble
you have and you're hitting it. 

707
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,160
You're hitting it perfectly. 
It's like I just, I don't know 

708
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,280
what there is to grab onto 
because that is one of the that 

709
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,400
was what college basketball, 
like the NBA has. 

710
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,200
You can tank and you can look 
for draft picks. 

711
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,160
College basketball had all 
right, let's look at our young 

712
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,560
freshmen and sophomores and 
who's going to grow. 

713
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,000
And that has been ripped out of 
college basketball because now 

714
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,480
they're all going to be in the 
portal as as they should be 

715
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,680
given the circumstances. 
No. 

716
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,280
And it's it's less about like 
that because you're right. 

717
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,960
I mean, players need to do what 
they need to do. 

718
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,640
It's more just like you, I think
with if Indiana wins the UCLA 

719
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,120
game, there's 7 and 8 and 16 and
10. 

720
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,040
And you can make an argument 
like, well, hey, you're still in

721
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,360
this. 
And and even though I just said 

722
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,720
like they're going to be on the 
fringes of it, it just you lose 

723
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:52,040
that game the way that you lost 
the Michigan game, the way you 

724
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,600
lost the Maryland game, the way 
you lost the Purdue game, 

725
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,680
essentially. 
And it's like, I don't even feel

726
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,080
like we're making progress 
towards what could be considered

727
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,720
a satisfactory end of the 
season. 

728
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,000
That's. 
What's quite wild about this 

729
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,560
team is like when you go back 
and look at they're not losing, 

730
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,040
they're they're losing a lot of 
close games. 

731
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,080
They're finding different ways 
to lose close games. 

732
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,600
And they did, they won Michigan 
State, they wanted Ohio State. 

733
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,200
So they've had a couple, but 
that's kind of. 

734
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,360
Law of average, I mean, really 
they they've lost more of these 

735
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,000
close games. 
It's just there's been a lot of 

736
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,320
close games. 
Well, and this is where if you 

737
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,400
remember earlier on in the 
season, Indiana's luck rating on

738
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,640
Ken Palm, which again, just a 
quick reminder is the, the how 

739
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,880
much better or worse your record
is based upon what it should be 

740
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,880
Statistically, Indiana was in 
like the 60s in luck. 

741
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,360
I think about a month and a half
ago, they've dropped to 149, 

742
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,640
which is how luck should work. 
Like eventually that regresses 

743
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,880
to the mean. 
So you can kind of say, well, 

744
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,120
it's not that Indiana's losing 
close games, surprisingly at 

745
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,520
this point. 
It's that they probably should 

746
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,720
have lost games earlier. 
And the record is finally 

747
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,360
starting to show how they've 
been playing. 

748
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,600
And if you buy 100 scratch offs 
and you win the first five, 

749
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,360
you're probably not going to 
continue winning, right? 

750
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,320
So, so anyway, this will be a 
challenge, I think, for the 

751
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,560
diehards that are trying to keep
their focus on this season and 

752
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,800
this team, again, I think 
Indiana's going to win at least 

753
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,360
a couple more games, probably 
against teams that you wouldn't 

754
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,680
expect them to. 
And and yet I just don't think 

755
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,240
anybody is going to get real 
excited. 

756
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:17,480
Even after that Michigan State 
game, it wasn't like people went

757
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,480
nuts and were like, hey, things 
are turning around in the right 

758
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,800
direction. 
It was like, oh, that's 

759
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,160
interesting. 
Indiana beat Michigan State. 

760
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,320
So it's that's that's kind of 
where we're at with all of that 

761
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,720
the Big 10 tournament this year.
Is in Cambridge. 

762
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,200
It's in India, correct? 
That's right. 

763
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,600
You're you're going to go. 
I don't. 

764
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,160
I might. 
I might. 

765
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,080
Honestly, it depends. 
On who we play, I might go just 

766
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,760
for kind of what, what's it 
going to be like, Like not going

767
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480
assuming we're going to win. 
But I mean that in a weird way, 

768
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,160
the Big 10 tournament has had 
some some moments where, you 

769
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,160
know, Archie's team gets booed 
off the court. 

770
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,280
You know, I'm just, it'd be 
curious to see how the fans 

771
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:57,120
react 'cause that is a, that's 
almost more of a, forgive the 

772
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,720
political reference here, but 
like the Assembly Hall is almost

773
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,400
like the, you know, the, the 
Democratic National Committee. 

774
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,320
Like it's the insiders of 
basketball. 

775
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,640
Like once you get to game 
bridge, it's more the popular 

776
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,240
vote. 
Like that is a lot more, you 

777
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,400
know, party outside. 
It's people who are just coming 

778
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,520
in. 
And I, I could see a lot more 

779
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,960
angst at game bridge because 
those are just fans who are not 

780
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,600
as invested and not willing to 
be like, all right, let's not 

781
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,000
Boo our home team on the 
homecourt. 

782
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,360
Like it's just kind of your 
average fan coming out and be 

783
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,240
like, this sucks, Boo, you guys 
suck, get out of here. 

784
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,880
So it could be I I might go. 
It might just be interesting to 

785
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:30,480
see. 
That's him. 

786
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,760
Yeah. 
Let's let's pivot. 

787
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,720
I might go too, so I might see 
you there. 

788
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:36,800
We'll see. 
But I'm I'm with you. 

789
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,080
I have no idea. 
Who we could play like? 

790
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,280
I don't even know what seed I 
mean the last if. 

791
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,720
There's four buys. 
Like the top seeds get a quad by

792
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,160
yeah. 
I've seen, I saw a projection 

793
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,600
yesterday where Indiana plays 
Iowa in the 1213 game, which 

794
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,840
feeds into playing UCLA as the 
five seed, which then would feed

795
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,680
into playing Maryland as the 
four seed, which as tournament 

796
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,480
pathways go, that's not that 
bad. 

797
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,440
Although that that has Iowa 
hitting like 28 threes in the 

798
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,200
first game written all over it. 
So, you know, we feel like we've

799
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,240
been down that road before, but 
we'll we'll see what happens. 

800
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,720
The weird thing is we have no 
games to talk about this 

801
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:16,960
upcoming week. 
Indiana's got a nine day break, 

802
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,480
which means we have to talk 
coaching search stuff. 

803
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,640
So we are going to talk coaching
search stuff kind of in the in 

804
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,800
the macro. 
But there were some things that 

805
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,280
came up in in one of the more 
recent podcasts that I did with 

806
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,960
Tony Adronia that caught your 
attention about which is an 

807
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,440
awesome. 
Yeah, Tony does a great job as 

808
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,840
always. 
But but we talked a little bit 

809
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,080
about like kind of I use place 
within the larger landscape and 

810
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,120
whether it's a good job or 
whether it's been a bad job for 

811
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,800
a while or whether it's just 
been bad hiring decisions. 

812
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,480
But you had heard some things in
there that you wanted to bring 

813
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,680
up. 
So let me have you start off by 

814
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,160
kind of giving your perspective 
on things. 

815
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:56,720
Yeah, I know it was. 
It was a great. 

816
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,760
Pot, as I said, I I was thinking
about how, you know, it kind of 

817
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,640
keyed into the 9290 like 87 to 
94 stretch, which obviously I 

818
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,960
know we didn't have a coaching 
change. 

819
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,360
I'm not losing cognitively that 
bad yet. 

820
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,560
But it was like I kind of called
you and was like, that was in my

821
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,480
mind kind of a seismic change in
college basketball that you went

822
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,520
from kind of this era of, Hey, 
you're from the Midwest, you go 

823
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,600
to Indiana or you're from the 
West, you go to UCLA. 

824
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,400
Like recruiting was very 
regional recruiting. 

825
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,760
Became a thing, you know, with 
the Fab 5 and a little bit of 

826
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,280
UNLV too. 
UNLV was a, was a, was a team 

827
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,000
that I think get they lost 
their, their luster with the Fab

828
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,600
5, but you had recruiting AAU 
stepped in shoe contracts became

829
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,360
a big thing and that just wasn't
what IU was doing. 

830
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,560
I, I joke with people all the 
time. 

831
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,240
I lived through that era. 
We were a converse school. 

832
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,560
I I swear we were like LA gear 
one year. 

833
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,720
We just did not have good shoe 
contracts. 

834
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,880
We didn't have those 
relationships. 

835
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,000
And it felt like Indiana as a 
whole kind of just missed that 

836
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,000
window for a couple of years and
then it feels like we've been 

837
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,120
trying to get back ever since. 
And my thought was that it does 

838
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,080
feel like you're having a 
seismic change now in college 

839
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,560
basketball with NIL and, you 
know, all the things that are 

840
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,520
happening and it feels like we 
are way more well positioned 

841
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,560
this time and we understand the 
landscape changing. 

842
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,480
And I can see other programs 
like maybe Michigan or other 

843
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,080
teams that are they're not doing
as good of a job. 

844
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,000
So that was kind of the 
overarching thought that I had 

845
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080
as you guys were kind of going 
through the historical thought 

846
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,520
is, you know, it feels like 
we've been playing catch up for 

847
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,720
2530 years from kind of missing 
that last seismic change well 

848
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:37,360
and you know. 
My perspective on it is that 

849
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,360
there have been a couple of key 
changes in terms of how the 

850
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,720
college basketball landscape and
the sports landscape in general 

851
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:44,920
has happened. 
One of them was you. 

852
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480
You hit the nail on the head. 
Like mid to late 80s. 

853
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,560
There was a change in how you 
know how talent got funneled to 

854
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,360
teams and it switched from being
a high school centric thing to 

855
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,360
an AAU centric thing. 
Shoe company started to get 

856
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,080
involved 'cause they looked at 
the long term ramifications of 

857
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:08,040
being able to essentially lock 
in talent from an early age and 

858
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,480
then profit when they made the 
big time. 

859
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,040
And they looked at the colleges 
as an important conduit on the 

860
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,840
way through. 
And you know, it's interesting 

861
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,920
because even though IU really 
didn't participate in that to 

862
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,800
the same degree that like 
Michigan did during that time 

863
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,680
period, or or Duke or Kansas or 
Kentucky, it it didn't hurt IU 

864
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,240
necessarily because Knight was a
good enough coach that he could 

865
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,600
still pull in top level talent 
when he wanted to. 

866
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,800
And you know, to me like it, it 
fitted with a lot of the rules 

867
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,080
changes that started to make 
college basketball more similar 

868
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,000
to professional basketball. 
The institution of the 

869
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,360
three-point line, the 
institution of the shot clock, 

870
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,480
the reduction of the shot clock 
from 45 seconds to 35 seconds, 

871
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,080
you know, some other smaller 
rules involved in all of that. 

872
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,360
And just this idea that college 
basketball became less regional 

873
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,040
and became more national, IU was
still relevant in that era. 

874
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,400
But you, you know, and even you 
know, obviously IU had their 

875
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,840
last great gasp under night in 
that 91 to 93 range. 

876
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,880
But that was almost in spite of 
those currents. 

877
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,320
And in the mid 90s, as you saw 
top level talent clearly being 

878
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,320
funneled to the Kentucky's, the 
Dukes, the North Carolinas, 

879
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,640
Indiana, even though they were 
getting what was on paper highly

880
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,280
rated talent, it didn't match 
what needed to happen in Indiana

881
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,840
in terms of winning basketball 
games. 

882
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,120
And we've we've obviously mined 
that quite a bit historically on

883
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,760
the podcast. 
But it also meant that, you 

884
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,040
know, IU looked like they were 
under Knight kind of standing 

885
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,320
against the grain. 
That was changing. 

886
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,200
And, and this is something that 
I always remind people of like, 

887
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,120
you know, Knight, I think 
realized too late at the end 

888
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,680
that they needed to modernize 
the way that they were doing 

889
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,200
things. 
And they started to modernize, 

890
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,480
you know, to the point that IU 
signed that Nike contract that 

891
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,680
that put them under under Nike's
brand for a few years. 

892
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,960
That was a Knight initiative. 
Like that wasn't something that 

893
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,880
IU did, you know, against his 
wishes. 

894
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,920
It just that he wasn't around 
to, to see that take place. 

895
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,240
And I remember that being such a
big deal when you were and I 

896
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,720
were in school. 
Like it was a point of pride 

897
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,720
that, you know, Michigan's using
a company that uses sweatshops 

898
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:20,480
in Asia, but Indiana isn't. 
And and then Indiana was like, 

899
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,760
no, we need to do that too. 
But and then suddenly we were 

900
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,280
like, yeah, sounds great. 
But it but it LED into the next 

901
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,960
era break where Indiana did not 
keep pace and it was immediately

902
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,080
after Bob Knight got fired. 
Can I pause there for one 

903
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,560
second? 
Just with I know we've we've hit

904
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,120
on this before too, but with the
Knight kind of changing to to 

905
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,360
Nike, it's like I I will always 
still go down that you look at 

906
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,120
that O1 O2 team, you know, and 
this is something you've also 

907
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,680
talked about tonight, went 
through ebbs and flows of kind 

908
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,280
of being interested in 
recruiting and really going at 

909
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,240
it. 
And it felt like unfortunately, 

910
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,840
when we were in college, he was 
in kind of an ebb of just, you 

911
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,200
know, like, sure, wrecker come 
on in and like wrecker get out, 

912
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,720
like just all of it, you know, 
does not really going that hard 

913
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:05,640
at it. 
But you look at that, the 

914
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,120
complexion of that O1 O2 team, 
it's like you have a bonafide 

915
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,640
star and Jared Jeffries, you, 
you have kind of a really 

916
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,360
interesting big man in George 
Leach. 

917
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,120
You have the defender and Dane 
Fife. 

918
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,120
You have, you know, well, Scott 
May Junior, I'm just going 

919
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:21,800
through the list. 
But like, you have the shooter 

920
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,400
in Kyle Hornsby, you have a 
well, Jared Odell's like a 

921
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,480
perfect night player. 
I'm 90% sure Kurt Hasting would 

922
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,680
have stayed another year if 
Knight was there. 

923
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,760
And then you had Shawn May, who 
would have come in had Knight 

924
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,280
still been there. 
Like Knight was coalescing kind 

925
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,520
of his one last run. 
Like I think he was like, all 

926
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,960
right, I'm going to I'm going to
really focus and put this 

927
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,600
together. 
And and you look at it and that,

928
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,040
you know, I think this is also 
something you had mentioned on 

929
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,720
the pod that like that O1 O2 
team was kind of thought it was 

930
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:51,360
like, man, Davis really took 
this ragtag bunch to the final 

931
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,840
four. 
It's like that team was really 

932
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,480
effing talented, like he might 
have underperformed with that 

933
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,160
team when you look at the full 
season. 

934
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,240
Sorry, I just wanted to point 
that out. 

935
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,520
But like it's like Knight was 
making one last push and then 

936
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,560
but it obviously didn't happen. 
111 detailed. 

937
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,480
Note Shawn May wouldn't have 
started playing till the O2 O 

938
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,440
three season but you're rolling 
out. 

939
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,480
Of a really good team that he 
maybe Jeffrey now I'm playing a 

940
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,680
little hypothetically, maybe 
Jeffrey stays one more year. 

941
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,800
Probably not. 
But like you're he has the 

942
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,040
engine running, which probably 
would have turned into Pat 

943
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,600
Knights now the coach. 
So that's a whole different 

944
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,240
third third world. 
Who knows? 

945
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,920
On that front, I mean, 
anything's possible there, But I

946
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,960
think the larger point is that 
there had been a correction, a 

947
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,560
course correction. 
But then the next change 

948
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,600
happened in college basketball, 
which was really that what hit 

949
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,680
all of college sports, which was
this kind of professionalization

950
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,320
of the top programs. 
And IU was caught flat footed 

951
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,640
because IU athletics was being 
used as a pawn by an 

952
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,560
administrator at that point to 
try to raise his standing within

953
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,040
the academic world. 
And unfortunately, IUI think is 

954
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,040
still playing catch up to some 
degree. 

955
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,080
You've you've seen finally with 
football, like they finally got 

956
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:02,240
the resources up to where 
they're competing amongst the 

957
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,360
nationals. 
But the mentality of basketball 

958
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,080
never really changed. 
And, you know, there's still a 

959
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,680
lot of people who cling to the 
values and the morals of the 

960
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,800
previous era, not really 
understanding that those weren't

961
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,400
the things that made IU 
basketball successful. 

962
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,560
What made them successful was 
having the top coach in college 

963
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,040
basketball for 20 plus years. 
You end up in an era where, you 

964
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:30,280
know, Indiana in terms of a 
bunch of things, you know, but 

965
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,440
but primarily reputation and 
connection has really struggled 

966
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,880
to garner the type of talent 
that other schools have garnered

967
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,520
over the course of time. 
And a lot of that's been the 

968
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,480
coaches that they've hired. 
But it was also how how like how

969
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,960
long it took Indiana to put 
Assembly Hall in a format that 

970
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,160
looked modern. 
You know, it took until 2015 or 

971
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,720
2016, whatever that renovation 
started, you know, for the the 

972
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,720
the place to kind of start 
looking like a modern basketball

973
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:02,840
arena. 
There's just a lot of little 

974
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,840
things with the athletic 
department in general that the 

975
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,120
the seeds for most of that 
change elsewhere got planted in 

976
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,960
the 2000 to 2005 range. 
Indiana was just essentially at 

977
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,040
war with Excel internally and 10
years late with things. 

978
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,320
And so it does, you know, from 
the standpoint of resources, 

979
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,200
like you can't argue that IU 
doesn't throw a ton of resources

980
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,320
at its basketball program, but 
it's really like in service of 

981
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,680
what? 
And, and this is where I think 

982
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,840
Indiana's really got some soul 
searching to do in terms of who 

983
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,960
they're going to hire as their 
next basketball coach. 

984
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,720
Because for, As for as much as I
agree that this is still a 

985
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:44,680
really good job And and that a 
lot of what Indiana's struggles 

986
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,840
have been have been in terms of 
like they've hired the wrong 

987
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,920
coaches. 
There is a certain like fabric 

988
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,160
of the program that just has 
kind of disintegrated. 

989
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,080
And it then when we go back and 
talk about the apathy of the 

990
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,880
fans and the the level of which 
people have turned off, you 

991
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,560
know, the the way that the 
coaches have managed the 

992
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,840
programs and just the fact that 
assembly holes not that tough of

993
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,960
a place to come in and win at 
anymore. 

994
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,000
At least not what it compared to
what it used to be in terms of 

995
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,520
the recruiting failures that 
Indiana's had and the lack of of

996
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,080
effort and going after 
recruiting. 

997
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,440
You really have to get the right
person to come in and re 

998
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,120
establish the culture of Indiana
basketball because there really 

999
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,720
isn't one at this point. 
And I think that's probably the 

1000
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:30,000
biggest disappointment is like, 
if you look at most of these 

1001
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,240
programs that are out there, 
they're either programs that 

1002
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:35,920
have maintained culture over the
course of a long period of time,

1003
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,840
or there are programs that have 
hired people that have come in 

1004
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,280
and done quick fixes. 
Kind of like Kurt Signetti did 

1005
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,560
with IU football, where it's 
like he imported the culture 

1006
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,920
that became the culture. 
IU is going to have to realize, 

1007
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,080
and I think it's fans are going 
to have to realize that that's 

1008
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,120
the kind of transplant that's 
going to have to happen because 

1009
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,680
it has to be you have to attach 
that to a coach, much as you did

1010
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,320
with Bob Knight when he came in 
in 1971. 

1011
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,400
Like that was a huge culture 
change that happened in a short 

1012
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,360
period of time. 
And, and the last, you know, 

1013
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:14,440
this to, to tie it back into the
Tony podcast that we did, IU has

1014
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,000
to realize that it's a great 
job, but the job itself isn't a 

1015
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,400
guarantee that your basketball 
team is going to be great, that 

1016
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,520
you have to hire the right 
people and that those people 

1017
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,160
have to be able to create a 
culture and a foundation that 

1018
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,920
that can stand on its own that 
ties to the IU brand. 

1019
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,920
There's nothing intrinsic in the
IU brand that guarantees you're 

1020
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,760
going to have those things. 
Agreed. 

1021
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,560
I, I, where I'm positive is when
you look at those other seismic 

1022
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:49,040
changes, the, the culture of the
program was important in that, 

1023
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,040
you know, in the, in the 90s, 
you needed to have those 

1024
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,240
connections to AAU. 
You had to have the shoe 

1025
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,120
contracts. 
We really didn't in the 2000s, 

1026
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,240
you, you had to have the 
facilities and the, the 

1027
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:01,480
understanding of your turning 
into a modern program. 

1028
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,040
And I feel like we didn't, you 
know, this time, this seismic 

1029
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,120
change feels like the, the key 
component is do you have the NIL

1030
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,680
and do you have the money? 
And it does feel like we have 

1031
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,400
those things. 
And, you know, we, I've, I've 

1032
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,600
had multiple conversations with 
people about how like, I don't 

1033
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,920
know how much facilities matter 
anymore to a point. 

1034
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,160
And obviously you need to have 
some level of facility, which we

1035
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,960
do. 
But the idea of, you know, in 

1036
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,480
that mid 2000s was like, oh, 
everyone gets a hot tub and we 

1037
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,760
have APS two in the, in the, you
know, in the locker room. 

1038
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,000
It's like, I don't think that 
matters. 

1039
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,000
It's more like, all right, it's 
awesome. 

1040
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,920
You have a, you have a court, 
you have a training facility. 

1041
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,640
What's my NIL money like? 
It comes down to money real 

1042
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,960
quick. 
And I think that the fact that I

1043
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,960
think you are right with like 
culture from a team perspective,

1044
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,240
like the, the groups inside the 
locker room, there has to be a 

1045
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:47,000
culture and an understanding of 
what this team is and what 

1046
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,840
Indiana basketball is. 
But kind of the university 

1047
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,040
culture, I think is less 
important. 

1048
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,040
More important is what the 
dollar amounts are. 

1049
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,440
And I, I do think that's a spot 
where Indiana is well 

1050
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,920
positioned. 
The money is there because you 

1051
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,960
look at a year, like this year, 
they, they brought a lot of 

1052
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,360
money and a lot of talent to the
table. 

1053
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,800
There wasn't a culture in the 
locker room to kind of put that 

1054
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,680
into a, a system. 
I don't think it's a culture of 

1055
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,080
the university, Whereas I would 
say the last two times the 

1056
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,480
culture of the university 
mattered because it kind of 

1057
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,080
mattered who as a program, like 
who are you connected with on a 

1058
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,040
shoe contract? 
And like, what is your, what is 

1059
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,560
your university stand for in 
those kinds of things? 

1060
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,680
That, that's how I look at it 
positively that I do think we're

1061
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,440
well positioned this time 
because we've shown we have the 

1062
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,840
money, we have that those 
connections, the NIL level, we 

1063
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,000
just now need the kind of the, 
the culture ported to the locker

1064
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,680
room, which is exactly what 
Signetti did. 

1065
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,400
He didn't. 
He ported a culture of the 

1066
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:38,920
locker. 
Room. 

1067
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,000
Not really. 
In, you know, Memorial Stadium 

1068
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,880
at large. 
Well, I think this is. 

1069
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,320
Where it's worth bringing up 
something I believe I brought up

1070
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,680
in the last coaching search, 
which is, you know, when I look 

1071
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:55,600
at the, the, the hot boards, 
when I look at the stated 

1072
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,800
desires of a lot of IU fans, 
like they're, they're insistent 

1073
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:04,080
that we have to hire a top coach
right now from another program. 

1074
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,040
That Indiana's got to stop 
playing around, that they need 

1075
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,440
to throw serious money at 
somebody who's having success 

1076
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,520
right now. 
And I get that perspective to 

1077
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,360
some degree, and sometimes I 
dabble in that myself. 

1078
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,440
But I, I do think it's worth 
noting like let's take the Ken 

1079
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:24,720
Palm top 30 and let's kind of go
through and look at the coaches 

1080
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,720
that were hired in each of these
places and where they came from.

1081
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,680
And then let's think about what 
Indiana's actually angling for 

1082
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,400
like so, So what do you want if 
you're IU, if you're an IU fan, 

1083
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,560
I'm I'm assuming you want IU to 
be a successful championship 

1084
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,320
contending team. 
I'm assuming that you want 

1085
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,040
Indiana to be winning conference
titles or at least competing for

1086
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:47,800
them. 
I'm assuming you want IU to be, 

1087
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,400
you know, going deep into the 
NCAA tournament, competing for 

1088
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,640
top recruits, getting top 
recruits, all of that. 

1089
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,680
So, coach, who does the pregame 
interviews? 

1090
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:56,880
And a coach who does the 
pregame. 

1091
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,840
Interviews so but I I would note
like go down the list of the the

1092
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:05,160
top teams and let's look at 
where their coaches came from. 

1093
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,160
So I'm just going straight off 
the the Saturday, February 15th 

1094
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:14,000
update for Kenpom. 
So you got Bruce Pearl with 

1095
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,560
Auburn and they are clearly the 
best team in the country right 

1096
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,120
now. 
And I'll note, like Bruce Pearl,

1097
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,720
when you know, he was he was at 
Tennessee, he made the 

1098
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,320
tournament all six years. 
He got hired there from 

1099
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,200
Milwaukee, you know, University 
of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, where 

1100
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,080
he'd had a successful four year 
tenure. 

1101
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:37,600
He, of course, gets busted for 
violating recruiting rules at 

1102
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,120
Tennessee, gets a show cause put
on him, is gone for four years, 

1103
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,040
and then gets hired at Auburn. 
And his first three years at 

1104
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,320
Auburn, they didn't make the 
NCAA tournament. 

1105
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,680
Who is second right now? 
It's Duke. 

1106
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,040
Who's their coach? 
It's John Shire. 

1107
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,520
Was John Shire a head coach 
anywhere before he took over 

1108
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,680
Duke? 
No, he was a career assistant 

1109
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,840
basically with Mike Schefsky. 
It's a bad example cause and 

1110
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:02,080
none. 
Of our assistants, I think can 

1111
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,280
coach, but go ahead. 
Houston is coached by Kelvin 

1112
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,280
Sampson, who we we, we know him 
very, very clearly and he was on

1113
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,520
a show cause penalty and got 
hired out of oblivion by Houston

1114
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,760
after sitting on an NBA bench 
for a few years. 

1115
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,720
Todd Golden, the head coach at 
Florida. 

1116
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:21,320
Where was Todd Golden? 
Was he a top? 

1117
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,000
This is a guy who's got his team
in what, the top five of the 

1118
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,400
NCAA? 
They're fourth in Kent Palm 

1119
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,080
right now. 
Was this a top level coach 

1120
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,400
somewhere else? 
No Todd Golden coached three 

1121
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,480
years at San Francisco, did a 
great job his third year. 

1122
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:37,320
They end up in the first round 
of the NCAA tournament as a A10 

1123
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:38,840
seed. 
And that's an accomplishment at 

1124
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,240
San Francisco, who doesn't have 
a lot of success, gets hired 

1125
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:45,360
from there, from Florida, and 
now has that team in a really 

1126
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,560
good spot. 
You know, Rick Barnes is a coach

1127
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,520
that IU fans have looked down 
their nose at for decades. 

1128
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,960
This is a guy who had a very 
successful run at Texas. 

1129
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,720
If IU had hired Rick Barnes in 
say, 2017, people would have 

1130
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,320
flipped out. 
I don't necessarily want Rick 

1131
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,960
Barnes as my coach, but that's 
the the 5th ranked team in 

1132
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,080
Kenpom right now. 
And that's a guy who took his 

1133
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,880
team to the Elite 8 last year, 
the Sweet 16 the year before. 

1134
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,400
Let's keep going down the list. 
Nate Oates. 

1135
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,120
Nate. 
Oates So imagine after Archer, 

1136
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,480
you hire Nate Oates, who's 
coming off of four good years at

1137
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:23,320
Buffalo, but you know, one year 
it didn't win 20 games and also 

1138
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,120
never made it to the Sweet 16 at
Buffalo. 

1139
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,800
So you hire a guy? 
From Buffalo, a Mac school to go

1140
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,240
coach there. 
And I mean, he's clearly done 

1141
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,960
very well. 
Grant Mccasland at Texas Tech, 

1142
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:40,640
This is a guy that was at North 
Texas for six years and got take

1143
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,120
it and it was very successful. 
Like his last two years at North

1144
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,560
Texas was 25 and 7 and 31 and 
seven. 

1145
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,360
But the number of people who 
I've seen now say we, I, you 

1146
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,720
can't get a mid major coach, 
they have to go big time. 

1147
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,000
Iowa State. 
TJ Otzelberger, this is a guy 

1148
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,480
who was an assistant at Iowa 
State, went and coached at South

1149
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,560
Dakota State. 
Another successful run at South 

1150
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,520
Dakota State, but that's a 
really good program. 

1151
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,520
Had two years at UNLV in the 
middle of COVID where they 

1152
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,520
didn't really do anything. 
Got hired after going 12 and 15 

1153
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,400
to come back to Iowa State to be
the head coach and has been a 

1154
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,600
revelation. 
I mean he's 2 sweet Sixteens in 

1155
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,760
three years and and a top ten 
team so far this season. 

1156
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,880
Greg guard at Wisconsin, 
replaces Beau Ryan after Beau 

1157
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,160
Ryan steps away. 
Had never been a head coach at 

1158
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,480
the Division One level. 
Matt Painter we've already 

1159
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,400
covered. 
Had been a head coach for one 

1160
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:37,000
season and, you know, gets hired
at Purdue in his early 30s Mark 

1161
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,360
Few had been a career assistant 
at Gonzaga. 

1162
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,720
Tommy Lloyd had been a career 
assistant at Gonzaga before he 

1163
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:43,920
gets. 
Hired at Arizona. 

1164
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,480
You know, Buzz Williams has 
bounced all over the place, you 

1165
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,480
know, and and had AI think your 
point, I mean. 

1166
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,560
I'm not going to go through all 
of them, but my point. 

1167
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,120
Is my point ultimately is as you
go down the list of most of the 

1168
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,920
coaches who have the top 20 
teams in Kenpump, Dennis Gates 

1169
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:02,840
at Mizzou, they just had a big 
win at at Georgia last night. 

1170
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:04,920
He was at Cleveland State for 
three years. 

1171
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,040
So my point is. 
The only one that I think would 

1172
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,320
meet the criteria of what IU 
fans want would be Pitino in 

1173
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:17,080
Saint John's or It Works but or 
the 15th ranked team in in Kent 

1174
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,240
Palm, which is Bill Self in 
Kansas. 

1175
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,640
But you know, he just has an 
identity and. 

1176
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,800
Has an ethos, right? 
Well, also there's there's, 

1177
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,520
there's a thread on the college 
basketball subreddit about 

1178
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,360
whether Bill Self's done. 
Like, is he? 

1179
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,000
Is he cooked? 
Does he, as he reached his peak 

1180
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,920
and receding now since he had 
his heart condition a couple of 

1181
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,560
years ago? 
Like so the my point is this I 

1182
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,680
and I have said this is me kind 
of speaking out of both sides of

1183
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,280
my mouth, admittedly, where it's
like, well, IU needs to try to 

1184
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,720
grab a top level coach and bring
them in because you you can't 

1185
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,880
afford to miss on this coaching 
hire for all the reasons that we

1186
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,240
laid out in the last podcast and
for some of the reasons we 

1187
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:57,560
talked about earlier in this 
one. 

1188
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:03,120
But if you look at the pattern 
going and getting a a, a top 

1189
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,960
coach from another program and 
bringing them in is just not 

1190
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,800
something that happens that 
much. 

1191
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,880
I mean, you just you don't see, 
I mean, Tennessee, yes, they 

1192
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,000
hired Rick Barnes, but Rick 
Barnes was done at Texas like he

1193
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,440
was his his time was over. 
I don't, you know, there aren't 

1194
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,600
that many excited Texas or just 
Tennessee basketball fans. 

1195
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,120
But I'm sure like all those 
people wanted to hire Bruce 

1196
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,200
Pearl again, they didn't want to
hire Rick Barnes. 

1197
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:26,600
It's worked out for both 
parties. 

1198
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:33,280
But the the point is, 
ultimately, it is very rare to 

1199
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:38,520
go and find a program that is 
going to just import success at 

1200
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,320
the top level. 
You have a better chance in many

1201
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,320
cases of finding someone that 
you really believe is going to 

1202
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:45,640
take your team to the next 
level. 

1203
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,680
IU got burned with that. 
Like that was what the Archie 

1204
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,000
Miller hire was supposed to be. 
It didn't end up working out 

1205
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,960
that way. 
But this idea that you can only 

1206
00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:01,120
hire a top coach at another 
program is, is not necessarily 

1207
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,960
the the sole answer. 
And I think the problem right 

1208
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:08,760
now is that IU fans have been 
convinced, either by their own 

1209
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,600
recognizance or by the words of 
people that cover the program, 

1210
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,640
that, you know, IU needs to 
swing for the fences. 

1211
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,520
I think a lot of IU fans will 
stop there and will not be 

1212
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,000
particularly patient or 
particularly excited, might even

1213
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,560
just be very angry about hiring 
somebody from the lower tier. 

1214
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,480
I'm not. 
So much worried about the fan 

1215
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,320
reaction there, Scott, but I do 
think the donor reaction is 

1216
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,120
going to be weird because I 
think most donors were like, all

1217
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:32,920
right, we're going to move on 
from Woodson. 

1218
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:34,560
We cannot afford to miss on 
this. 

1219
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,000
Let's go get the very best there
is. 

1220
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,840
Let's spend that money. 
It's just not something that 

1221
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,760
happens regularly out there. 
And at most of the successful 

1222
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,080
teams that we're seeing right 
now in this business are not 

1223
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,760
hiring that way. 
So I am really curious to see 

1224
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,840
what direction Indiana goes with
this. 

1225
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,400
Because a lot of what IU fans 
seem to want at this stage 

1226
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,440
doesn't really jibe with the 
reality of how hiring happens 

1227
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,280
elsewhere. 
No, it's, it's, it's a 

1228
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,400
fairpoint. 
I mean, you look at, we keep 

1229
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,280
saying this, you look at 
Memorial Stadium as a guide, you

1230
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,000
know, Signeti was the perfect 
hire. 

1231
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,120
And you look at his track 
record, it's like this guy wins 

1232
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,320
at every level. 
He he's a, he's had a head 

1233
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,920
coaching experience, But Indiana
also was kind of lucky in that 

1234
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,560
we were looking for a coach at 
that time, but also that we were

1235
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,160
willing to take it. 
We as a program could take a 

1236
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,320
chance on somebody like that and
you weren't going to get pushed 

1237
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,720
back. 
You know, like Auburn, I don't 

1238
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,480
even know if they were looking 
for a coach last year, but like 

1239
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,840
a, a program like Auburn wasn't 
going to hire Signetti. 

1240
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,040
And I think that's unfortunately
where Indiana basketball is 

1241
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,360
right now. 
Is it? 

1242
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,680
It has this feeling of like 
we're better than that, But in 

1243
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,320
reality, you need to go out and 
get the best coach. 

1244
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,760
And my, my hope is, is that 
because Dolson was the one who 

1245
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,680
went through that Signetti 
process, he's able to look at 

1246
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,920
this as like, all right, let's 
take the Indiana exceptionalism 

1247
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,480
to the side, so to speak. 
And let's just be a program 

1248
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,760
looking for a coach. 
And if we take all of those 

1249
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,760
things aside, I'm sure there's a
lot of programs in college 

1250
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:00,960
football. 
They're like, damn it. 

1251
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,000
And I, I was trying to pull up 
real quick, like who else was 

1252
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,640
looking for coaches last 
offseason in college football? 

1253
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,440
But I'm sure there's programs 
that are a notch above Indiana. 

1254
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,760
They're like, damn it, we we 
should have just put our ego 

1255
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,360
aside and hired the best coach 
that's out there. 

1256
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,720
And and to your point, like this
is there's an alchemy here 

1257
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:18,520
that's tough to know. 
It's like sometimes guys like 

1258
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,160
Signeti have those backgrounds, 
like Archie had a similar type 

1259
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:23,840
background of winning and it 
didn't work out. 

1260
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,120
And so you're not always just, 
it's not a perfect answer every 

1261
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,280
time, but I agree that sometimes
programs put themselves in these

1262
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,720
thoughts where it's like we 
can't hire the best guy. 

1263
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,600
We have to hire the guy that 
looks the best for this program.

1264
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,600
Well, I really hope that I'm, 
I'm with you in agreement. 

1265
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,240
I, I hope we don't do that. 
The the the struggle is. 

1266
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,360
Often times it's more it, it's, 
it's part of what you said, yes.

1267
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:57,600
It's also, I think, an issue of,
well, who's deciding, yeah, what

1268
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,800
the criteria are. 
And I think it's to some degree 

1269
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,200
is that how you end up with Mike
Woodson is the head coach last 

1270
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,320
time around. 
But sometimes the donors do make

1271
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:07,240
that. 
Criteria because they're the 

1272
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,320
ones paying the buyouts and 
they're the ones paying the 

1273
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:10,640
contract. 
Yeah, because there's a, there's

1274
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,640
a perceptional. 
Issue where if you go get a big 

1275
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,640
name, people will be like, oh, 
I'll spend money on that. 

1276
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,760
If you go get like the up and 
coming coach, that could be the 

1277
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,440
next any one of those names that
we mentioned. 

1278
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,120
It'd be like, why are we wasting
our time and money hiring this 

1279
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,040
person? 
And and you've already you've 

1280
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:30,000
already spent around, you know, 
of of ammunition on Archie 

1281
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,320
Miller with that process, do you
get to have that same luxury 

1282
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:34,920
again, if that's indeed the 
right hire? 

1283
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,160
To go back to your question 
about like what were the hires 

1284
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,720
happening in the last cycle? 
It was obviously Caitlin De Boer

1285
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:44,320
gets hired at Alabama. 
In football, Willie Fritz was 

1286
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,600
viewed as like a top hire. 
He goes from Tulane to Houston. 

1287
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,240
Mike Elko gets hired at Texas 
A&M. 

1288
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,440
They basically spent a bunch of 
money to have the exact same 

1289
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,720
outcome. 
Jonathan Smith was viewed as a 

1290
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:56,960
better hire than Signetti was. 
Well, that didn't work out 

1291
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,040
particularly well. 
You know, and then you go down 

1292
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,480
Jed Fish at at Washington from 
Arizona that that didn't I mean 

1293
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,680
it kind of worked, but not to 
the degree that you might 

1294
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,040
expect. 
I mean, I think you can make an 

1295
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:11,560
art. 
I don't think Washington would 

1296
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:12,800
have hired. 
Signetti it would have been it 

1297
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,760
would have looked like what are 
we doing so so you take all of 

1298
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,880
that and you. 
Look at this and you, you say to

1299
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:22,120
yourself, Well, there's the 
reality of what's happening in 

1300
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,680
college basketball with the 
hires. 

1301
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,000
And then there's the perception 
of what needs to happen if it's 

1302
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,600
IU and this is where you get 
into some trouble and it's where

1303
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,040
a lot of the names that you're 
seeing floating around. 

1304
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,960
I mean, would it be great to get
a Brad Stevens or to like I I 

1305
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,920
wanted to hit that real. 
Quick, like again, it came up 

1306
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,680
again. 
I saw you in the Discord. 

1307
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,480
Be like, all right, like I've 
been making the same joke. 

1308
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,120
I'm not. 
I'm not going down this rabbit 

1309
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,280
hole like I'm not. 
I'm not gonna do it. 

1310
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,720
Like you can talk yourself blue 
in the face about I, I know 

1311
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,080
this. 
And as kids doing this like 

1312
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,640
it's, it's not going to happen. 
It is funny that we had to have 

1313
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,680
the, the rodeo, the three day 
Stevens rodeo again, where it's 

1314
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,320
like it's not going to happen. 
And it's like, oh, maybe it is 

1315
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,400
like I'm hearing rumors, like I 
have a friend who knows a friend

1316
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,120
and it's like, oh, no, he's not.
It's like it's not going. 

1317
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,200
To happen like I'm and I. 
No problem asking like that's 

1318
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,600
probably the first call you need
to make for the next 12 years. 

1319
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,840
Make the call, but let's all 
know it's not going to happen. 

1320
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:17,480
Yeah, I mean, I look. 
I don't believe anything until a

1321
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,120
hire is made one way or the 
other on things. 

1322
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:25,640
But again, it's just like the 
the one thing I'll say on the 

1323
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:30,800
Stevens front is there was no 
reason for Stevens to make a 

1324
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:32,720
statement. 
Stevens is not required to talk 

1325
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:34,680
to the media. 
Stevens is not required to 

1326
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,920
interact with the media. 
There's no requirement that an 

1327
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,600
NBAGM take questions. 
Even starts doing Fisher's 

1328
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:41,600
pregame. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1329
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:42,800
That, that would be quite a 
twist. 

1330
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,520
Yeah, yeah. 
We're out. 

1331
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,840
Stevens dot dot. 
Dot to do the pregame interview 

1332
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,080
for the rest of the year. 
It's not a bad idea, but it's 

1333
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,840
like there was no reason, like 
Brad Stevens wasn't getting. 

1334
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:55,840
Hounded coming out of his house 
every day. 

1335
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,480
So why go through all the 
trouble of talking to a reporter

1336
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,640
and going on record is saying 
that you're happy in Boston? 

1337
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,000
Like the the number of IU fans 
who believe either that this is 

1338
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,120
Jeff Goodman pushing something 
for his own agenda, which is, I 

1339
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,920
mean, I'm sorry, it's ludicrous,
or people who believe, oh, well,

1340
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,080
this is just to throw everybody 
off the scent. 

1341
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,360
It's like what scent was needed 
to be thrown off? 

1342
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:24,080
Like it was like IU isn't going 
to answer questions on it and 

1343
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,400
Brad Stevens doesn't have to 
answer questions on it. 

1344
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,560
It doesn't make any sense that 
you would go to all of that 

1345
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,640
trouble and draw more attention 
to it. 

1346
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,320
It doesn't. 
It's that that does not compute 

1347
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:34,080
to me. 
So. 

1348
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,560
But again, like I said, people 
say all kinds of crazy things 

1349
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,840
during coaching searches. 
I, I have decided in this one, 

1350
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:44,600
we're going to go through the 
coaching candidates. 

1351
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,600
We're going to talk through 
what, what they look like. 

1352
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,200
We have a good podcast stored up
that that I'm recording a little

1353
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,560
later on in this week with a, a 
long time occasional guest with 

1354
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,680
Crimson cast where we'll go 
through some of the candidates 

1355
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:00,360
in a unique way. 
But realistically speaking, that

1356
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,560
anything is possible. 
There's no such thing as a 0% 

1357
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,400
chance. 
But I mean, put that to bed for 

1358
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:07,680
now. 
Let's just talk about other 

1359
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:09,880
candidates. 
But and my point though was like

1360
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,120
you could, it would be great if 
IU got somebody of that caliber,

1361
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,640
but I don't think it's necessary
that IU get somebody of that 

1362
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,760
caliber. 
And ultimately, there are things

1363
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:24,200
that we don't necessarily know 
about how coaches are are like 

1364
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,080
playing within the landscape of 
of IU. 

1365
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:30,840
There's just a lot of factors at
play. 

1366
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,240
And it's not simply the records 
and it's not simply the, you 

1367
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,440
know, oh, there's there's a 
great coach over there. 

1368
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,360
We're just going to go grab that
coach and bring them over here 

1369
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,360
because it's just not generally 
how it happens. 

1370
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,960
And when it does happen, it 
happens very irregularly. 

1371
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,440
Like Roy Williams didn't leave 
Kansas to go to North Carolina 

1372
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,280
because North Carolina was a 
better job. 

1373
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,560
He left because Dean Smith 
basically told him he had to 

1374
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,800
come back because that was where
he got his start. 

1375
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,200
You know, Roy Williams was 
broken up about leaving Kansas. 

1376
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,080
And again, once you have a good 
thing at a decent program, and 

1377
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,720
especially if you can win at the
level that a Bruce Pearl or a 

1378
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:07,240
Nate Oates is winning at Alabama
or at Auburn, what advantage 

1379
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,800
does Indiana have in the 
landscape with those types of 

1380
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,080
coaches? 
Is it worth spending all that 

1381
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:15,560
extra money when those same 
coaches would not have been 

1382
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:19,520
hired based upon the same 
criteria that IU fans and and 

1383
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,920
some IU media are putting on 
this search? 

1384
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,520
That's that's really ultimately 
what I want everybody to keep in

1385
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:28,000
mind. 
We head off into the upcoming 

1386
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,120
week here. 
IU, of course, not in action for

1387
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,439
men's basketball. 
And I'm sure we'll have a lot of

1388
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,880
weird discourse about the 
coaching searches coming up, and

1389
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:41,640
we will be talking about that as
well here on the show as we've 

1390
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,560
got a bunch of different things 
to talk about. 

1391
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:48,640
We've got a lot of different 
types of candidates that are out

1392
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,920
there, A lot of people 
expressing like their innate 

1393
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,920
desire that it be this candidate
or that candidate. 

1394
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,560
So we'll dive into some of that 
throughout the course of this 

1395
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,680
upcoming week. 2:00 to 3:00. 
Weeks away from it even being a 

1396
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:05,000
warm stove, you're you're still 
123 like 5 weeks away from the 

1397
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,560
NCAA tournament. 
You know it's. 

1398
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,160
It's an odd. 
It's just, it's like it's, it's 

1399
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,720
obviously still going on, but it
feels like we're still, we're 

1400
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,760
still a long way away from being
a long way away now. 

1401
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,960
The tournament starts in five. 
Weeks, so I mean, you got at 

1402
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,040
least that long and probably 
longer if you're going after a 

1403
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:22,720
coach that's in the NCAA 
tournament. 

1404
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:24,200
So we'll see what happens with 
all of that. 

1405
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,680
But anyway, that'll wrap it up 
for us here for Scott. 

1406
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,120
I'm Galen. 
This is Crimson cast. 

1407
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,960
We will be back later on this 
week with more content, 

1408
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,640
including a look at what's going
on with the coaching surge, some

1409
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:37,120
of the candidates and and 
whatnot. 

1410
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:39,200
Our thanks to our presenting 
sponsor home field apparel, our 

1411
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,160
thanks to our friends across the
back home network and of course,

1412
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:43,640
our thanks to you folks for 
tuning in. 

1413
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,120
We will be back later. 
We'll catch you folks on the 

1414
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:47,680
flip side. 
Stay never daunted. 

1415
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:49,720
Bring back the Bison. 
So long, everybody.