1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,120 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:21,440 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,920 Galen Clavio, Scott Caulfield joining you here. 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:30,600 It is the 9th of February, Indiana coming off another loss 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,360 in basketball and just an all around kind of odd day in the 6 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:42,960 hall as Indiana drops a game to Michigan and you had the kind of 7 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,880 weird. Coach name again, I forget. 8 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,960 Yeah, no, it's, it's escaping me right now. 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,200 But but no, just a kind of an interesting vibe is settled in 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,120 with this and we're going to talk about what it means as we 11 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,520 move forward here through these last six weeks or so of the 12 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,440 season. Obviously, we had a great day 13 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,040 yesterday. We'll talk about that in just a 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,600 second. And we'll First off start by 15 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,120 saying that we are brought to you by Home field Apparel here 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,600 on the Back Home Network. Your place to go for the finest 17 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,520 in college fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs, 18 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,720 tons of home field apparel at the upstairs pub in an assembly 19 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,520 hall yesterday, as there always is, and more new materials 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,280 coming out on a regular basis. If you haven't gone back and 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,920 checked out that hockey hoodie, that whole hockey hoodie 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,880 collection that they released a couple weeks ago is just 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,360 glorious. Go get one of those. 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,560 They've got a great IU one if you're into that. 25 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,520 So again, home field apparel, use the code home 23. 26 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,160 Get 15% off your first order Crimson cast sub stack still 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,840 rolling along and we would love to have you in that community. 28 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,560 We get new people adding every day. 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,840 You get periodic emails where we send you all of our podcasts 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,560 right to your inbox. We occasionally have extra 31 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,800 readings. We have some VIP stuff for those 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,400 who want to do a paying subscription to help support the 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,120 podcast, I don't think. It's going to happen, but it 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,560 does feel like over the next couple of weeks you and I both 35 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,880 might have VIP thoughts, just like there might be some dumb 36 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,479 stuff going on. And so I just, it feels like VIP 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,080 will be hopping the next couple of weeks. 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,880 Yeah, you know, there's, there's going to be some things that 39 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,680 might be a little too spicy for the regular podcast feed. 40 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,200 That's where those things go only on the on the the paid 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,680 subscriber part of the sub stack. 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,240 But go over to crimsoncast.substack.com and 43 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,360 check it out and also join us on YouTube as we are part of the 44 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,800 back home network YouTube channel. 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,520 You can just search for that subscribe. 46 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,280 All of our podcast at this point pretty much are on YouTube as 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,960 well as being on Spotify and Apple. 48 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,040 So anyway, let's talk about first of all, the event 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,560 yesterday that we had it was a tremendous one at the upstairs 50 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,720 pub. Scott and I were there during 51 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,520 the game, breaking in in the middle of commercial breaks to 52 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,800 talk about what was going on. We had a nice collection of fans 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,880 there, a lot of everybody being an IU fan except for one or two 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,320 Michigan people and then several Crimson cast fans, which was 55 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,360 really gratifying to to see and to get to meet those folks. 56 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,320 And then afterwards, Scott had to take off, but the Assembly 57 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,560 call crew stopped by. We had Tony Adrani there and we 58 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,480 had Mike and Bob from the X's and Joe's podcast, Kathy from 59 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:18,360 doing the work. Just a, you know, a large number 60 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,520 of our friends in the back home network there and we had a nice 61 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,440 hour or so Long live show. The bar was packed. 62 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,200 There were a lot of people there shots. 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:29,560 You guys had more fun when I was gone? 64 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,200 Well, you know, we everybody, literally everybody's like, is 65 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,280 Scott still here? And he was, he was not. 66 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,480 I had to tell you them that you left. 67 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,480 It was sad so, but it was a great event and I and I. 68 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Played well, I just didn't win but. 69 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,120 So you know, well, I'm sorry to hear that. 70 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,880 No, we. Different podcasts, different. 71 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,600 We'll talk about coaching changes there. 72 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,400 There you go. But it was a fun watch the the 73 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,600 game. I mean, there were several long 74 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,200 moments when it kind of felt like last year's live podcast 75 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,520 when Indiana just could not compete against Penn State. 76 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,040 This one had a little bit of a different script and it 77 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,200 highlighted to me kind of the difference between last year's 78 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,200 team and this year's team. Last year's team lacks high end 79 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,880 talent and also didn't really know how to play hard 80 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,800 consistently or or really what they were executing, which led 81 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,000 to a lot of blowouts. This year's team, there haven't 82 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,880 been that many of those. They've been in a lot of these 83 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,720 games, they've lost, but they're still losses. 84 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,640 They're more competitive losses because I think the talent 85 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,440 baseline level is higher this year than it was last year. 86 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,880 But the same morass that the IU basketball has found itself in 87 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,320 was it was in display on this one. 88 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,880 And even though Indiana did a good job of going on a big run 89 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,920 in the last quarter of the game, essentially, they just couldn't 90 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,440 quite get over the hump, Scott. And so they end up losing in the 91 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,640 end, 70 to 67. Anthony Leal hits a three that a 92 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,960 lot of people found relevant as the the line on the game was 3 93 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,320 1/2 for Indiana and they would be only losing by three points. 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,800 I would have loved to have had the the the game watch in Vegas. 95 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,720 Oh my God, and. Like people were just like, ah, 96 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:10,480 it's over. No. 97 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,240 And then yes, on the other side, you know, this the Maryland game 98 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,960 and the Purdue game all kind of had the feeling of the, the, the 99 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,520 parable of, you know, the dog that caught the car. 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,200 And it's like they, they, Indiana is able to get to that 101 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,640 point where they get to the very end. 102 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,280 And then it's like, oh, oh, what do we do now? 103 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:30,520 Like, like we're here inside, Like what? 104 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,640 And we look very discombobulated at the end of games, I think is 105 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,280 a fairway to say. And you saw it again here where 106 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:39,640 the, as you mentioned, like there was a moment in the first 107 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,720 half where like, whoa, this is just going to be a complete 108 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,600 drubbing. Indiana fought back. 109 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,120 Indiana made it a game. Indiana kind of went through the 110 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,960 second-half doing exactly what you want, like getting within 111 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,840 10, getting within 7, getting within 5. 112 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,840 And then it became winning time. And that they a lot of those 113 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,120 efficiencies and a lot of when they were playing with kind of 114 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,880 purpose it it, it went away in the last couple minutes. 115 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,960 Just look like a team that wasn't able to close the deal, 116 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,600 which is what a team who's lost, you know, six in five, five in a 117 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,680 row and, you know, eight of nine or whatever that that's what a 118 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,080 team looks like when they can't, when they do that, you know. 119 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,480 We've, we've talked a lot this year about the streakiness that 120 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,800 Indiana plays with both good and bad. 121 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,520 And I wish, you know, so if you go to the, if you go to Ken 122 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,760 Palm, he has these the charts. So I'm going to show this to 123 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,320 our, our folks that are watching on YouTube and Spotify, just so 124 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,120 you know what I'm talking about. Most of you have seen these 125 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,960 before, but these wind probability graphs, they 126 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,640 basically have the money SPN as well. 127 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,040 But the difference about the wind probability graphs that Ken 128 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,440 Palm has is he also has taken to including these little blue 129 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,760 lines that don't indicate runs there were. 130 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,520 I wish that we could chart like how many runs of 10 or more 131 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,560 points different teams have in the country 'cause it feels like 132 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,800 Indiana both leads in those types of runs and leads. 133 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,840 And given those giving up those types of runs. 134 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:05,000 They had an 11 O run for Michigan in the first half, 135 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,760 followed by an 11 O run for Indiana, followed by a nineteen 136 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,920 to three run by Michigan. And then you get to the 137 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,400 second-half and Indiana goes on the 12 two run and that gets him 138 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,200 back in the game. And it's just like, it's such a 139 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,000 a frustration as a fan knowing how much talents on the team, 140 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,320 Scott, when they are so beholden to these spells where they can't 141 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,720 do anything right. It feels like on either end of 142 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,400 the floor. And then they snap into it and 143 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,360 they'll play for like a 5-7 minute stretch. 144 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,640 And you're like, that team that I'm watching would probably be 145 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,600 contending for the Big 10 title. But that team only shows up 146 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,520 about 6 minutes a game. And unfortunately, this was 147 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,560 another example of that. And as you said, like in this 148 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,000 case, they actually got back to the point where they were in the 149 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,240 game, had a chance to win, and it just fell apart again because 150 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,560 Michigan executed and Indiana didn't. 151 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,320 Yeah, I, I mean it, it's kind of like I'm, I'm almost done with 152 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:02,840 the post mortems. I mean, you're right. 153 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,720 And like trying to figure it out is, you know, whatever, whatever 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,120 this coaching staff is doing it because it's, it's been going on 155 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,280 for two or three years. So it's not just, and you know, 156 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,480 most of these players, a lot of them are new players who weren't 157 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,040 here last year in the same problems were here last year. 158 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,240 You know, it's it's a system where either the players don't 159 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,160 know what to do when they're confused or that there haven't 160 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,240 been enough, you know, situations where you know, 161 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,440 they're they're focused in. But you know, the in the end, if 162 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,840 you take kind of the big picture view it, it seems very specific 163 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,840 to Indiana. But I think if you looked at a 164 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,520 lot of the teams that were on the bubble or or out of the 165 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,159 bubble, they probably have a similar vibe where it's like, 166 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:45,160 man, we have moments where we look really good. 167 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,160 You know, if you're on the bubble, that's probably where 168 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,720 you are. You can play pretty good. 169 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,280 You just you have deficiencies in certain areas. 170 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,840 You know, if you're not even in the NIT discussion, those are 171 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,680 teams that probably never looked good at all. 172 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,520 Right. Well, and I think also when you 173 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,760 look at this, it's a how do I put this? 174 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:10,640 This team is, I think they're so fragile because like a lot of 175 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,760 the times the runs, good or bad, are triggered by 1 substitution, 176 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,520 which seems to either snap things into place or pull the 177 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,680 string on whatever has been working. 178 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,880 And you know, this was obviously this has been a criticism for a 179 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,320 while with Woodson, it was a criticism even in the first two 180 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,400 years when the effects were not as pronounced. 181 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:30,960 And but you know, people will be like, why are we doing a hockey 182 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,040 line change the 12 minute mark or whatever? 183 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,160 Like there was this, there's been those types of criticisms. 184 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,040 There's been a little bit of of alteration of that. 185 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:43,160 But it feels like there's just so little team cohesion that 186 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,720 when one thing upsets that balance, you fall apart on both 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,200 ends of the floor. No one really knows what they're 188 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,560 doing. But what makes this team so 189 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,240 weird is that then they will have moments where it goes the 190 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,640 opposite direction and they'll they'll be playing very average 191 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,480 and then they'll have a substitution in and then they go 192 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,480 on a run. You know, that when they've been 193 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,920 able to time that with the very end of a game, they've won some 194 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,720 of those games. You know, it, it kind of 195 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,640 happened to some degree. You know, there was, well, that 196 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,840 Ohio State game was actually more of an indicator of the, the 197 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,160 the complete up and down that you'll get sometimes with this 198 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,280 team. But they let the run up at the 199 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,040 end of that regulation that allowed Ohio State to take it 200 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,160 into overtime. But Indiana was able to pull 201 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,040 themselves back in. It's like they almost have to 202 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,960 get all these pieces just right at just the right moment. 203 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,960 And it's rarely lined up for them this year. 204 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,120 It's not a good way to play basketball. 205 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,960 It's not a good way to to strategize about basketball. 206 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,320 You do see teams win sometimes. And if you ever look at that 207 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,000 luck, that luck statistic on Ken Palm, Indiana's actually been 208 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,760 fairly lucky this year relative to how they've actually played 209 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,200 because they've won or been close in games that 210 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,560 statistically they shouldn't. But they're still not good 211 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,680 enough by any stretch of the imagination. 212 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:59,000 And you know, you lose your 10th game and it's not even the 213 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,880 middle of February. It wasn't a very good season. 214 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,920 And as you said, Scott, there's not a whole lot left to do from 215 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,080 a post mortem perspective as far as the game. 216 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,360 But I do think like you look at where Indiana's at right now, 5 217 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,720 losses in a row, as you know that they didn't lose five in a 218 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,520 row at all last year. They didn't. 219 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,440 I was actually going to bring, sorry, yeah, but in but you 220 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,120 know, we're going to Michigan State, which again now like 221 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,280 every Rd. arena in the Big 10, like we got to, you know, we got 222 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,960 to preface it, it's a place we don't play well, but we haven't 223 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,000 played well in Michigan State. That's this is this is the 224 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,240 lowest win probability we have the rest of the season. 225 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,640 So it's very likely we will lose 6 Big 10 games in a row. 226 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,560 I was going to play the when was the last time that happened? 227 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,520 But it's not a fun game 'cause it's happened like. 228 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:44,840 But it hasn't happened under Woodson. 229 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,640 It did happen in 2019. Well, with Archie, although you 230 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,880 should like it also brings back like. 231 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,720 It also happened in 2021, you know, And then this is the thing 232 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,840 people forget, like in Archie's last year. 233 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,320 He had he lost his last six games, including the Rutgers 234 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,680 game at the end of the year. I was saying regular season, 235 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,400 yes. So when you count the play out, 236 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,480 yes, let's start. Yeah, you are right. 237 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,560 Let's split hairs and how bad we've been different years. 238 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,800 But I my thing was more it's happened in the regular season 239 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,400 in 2019, which is Archie's second year, which, you know, 240 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,480 maybe goes in the next. We should be paying closer 241 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,240 attention to these things early in coaching careers that you had 242 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,120 a six game and it's like, but then you know, yeah, multiple 243 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,280 times during the Korean those early years, But it's just. 244 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,320 Well, even even in Korean's last year, they lost five in a row 245 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,520 and six of seven. There's a lot that are really 246 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,360 close. And I think, I mean, here's the 247 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,040 thing, all three of those program teams or, you know, the 248 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,800 where, where the IU was at were broken in some, some fundamental 249 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,520 way. And I think that that's what 250 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,920 we've unfortunately, as IU basketball fans come to learn, 251 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,160 is that losing 5 games in a row or more is an indicator that 252 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,400 your team is broken. And it's like, well, no crap, of 253 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,360 course, But the, but it, it's, it's interesting and watching 254 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,160 how the different levels of breaking have affected IU over 255 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,320 time. But in each of those 3, like you 256 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,680 knew when that five game losing streak happened at the end of 257 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:10,800 Crean's last year that this was probably going to be it. 258 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Like it wasn't 100% certain but it felt over. 259 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,240 By the time that fifth loss rolled in, you know, certainly, 260 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:20,080 you know, Archie, you were, you were just talking about some 261 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,280 losses this year. I was about to bring this point 262 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,760 up. I'm looking at the 2019 Ken Pom 263 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,040 page. And you're like, you were 264 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,680 talking about the Maryland game. Like, man, I don't remember 265 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:29,520 losing to Iowa and Purdue back-to-back. 266 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,280 I'm like, oh, this is a 2019 page. 267 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,400 But it's, it's so bad that like I'm looking at Ken Pom's 2019 268 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,600 page and just assuming it's this year's page, 'cause there's just 269 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,120 so much red and not enough green. 270 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,880 And it's like, that's a bad spot where seasons like this should 271 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,200 be such outlines. That I can't like I immediately 272 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,040 know what page I'm looking at. The trouble is all these page 273 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,920 start looking the same. Sorry, no, everything, 274 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,920 everything blends together. And it is it is wild that three 275 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,480 coaches is different as Tom Crean, Archie Miller and Mike 276 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:03,200 Woodson have had four different reasons their teams fall apart 277 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,880 at at this rate towards the end. And so that's where I look at 278 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,160 yesterday's game and you know, I was not in the arena. 279 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,320 You were not in the arena. There were a lot of people that 280 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,640 we knew that were in the arena. Whoever counted what it was 281 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,800 like. And it was like it wasn't a 282 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,200 hostile environment, but you know, people cheered. 283 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,920 They got loud when they need to get loud. 284 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,320 It did feel, from what some of my friends told me, that it, it 285 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,640 felt less emotionally fraught, like the edge had been taken off 286 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,360 slightly. But I, I think I believe it was 287 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,280 may have been Zach Osterman who wrote this in his piece today. 288 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,680 But it just kind of felt like especially we, we felt this in 289 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,120 the bar a little bit as well. And I know it certainly mirrors 290 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,920 feelings I have had. It's like you just want the 291 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,600 season to kind of be over at this point. 292 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,360 It's like there's, there's not really a, in most people's 293 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,640 minds, a realistic trajectory for anything meaningful to come 294 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,960 from the season. Everybody looks and feels 295 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,360 exhausted. You know, Woodson, when being 296 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,840 asked about like, where the team's psyche was at, like 297 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,520 really sounded like the he was just completely befuddled by how 298 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,520 not connected the team is. And it's at this stage you're, 299 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,920 you know, I think everybody's aware of the shortcomings of the 300 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,720 team. You see it regularly here and 301 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,040 it's almost more frustrating that they're not just getting 302 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,120 blown out, that they're in these games, but they're not coming up 303 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,960 with ways to win. It just kind of highlights that 304 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,320 extra 10% that other teams, even teams that don't feel like they 305 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,320 have any more talent than Indiana, have been able to put 306 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,280 together. So sorry, like and and you know, 307 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,200 I agree with all of that. You know, the the comp that's 308 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,200 being being made is to the two 2006 season, which you and I 309 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,640 both live through, you know, and and there is the comp there 310 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,560 where, you know, you had Davis on about this time at at that 311 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,720 time of year, you know, do the I'm sick game. 312 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,800 And then he was announced that, you know, he's going to be 313 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,800 resigning. And then, you know, they lose to 314 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,640 Illinois, but then it's like, oh, they win four in a row and 315 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,560 kind of salvage this even go to the tournament. 316 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,200 I I think there's a key difference isn't being talked 317 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,240 about 2-2 pieces there. 1 is that two of those four games at 318 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,600 the end were against teams that were ranked that year of 100 a 319 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,880 hundred plus in Kenpom. Purdue was 150 fifty. 320 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,280 Yeah, Purdue used to suck at one point. 321 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,280 Yes, it is true. And then Penn State was 116. 322 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,640 So you, you played some soft teams. 323 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,400 But the other thing is, you know, there's a huge difference 324 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,120 here. And I I was not there. 325 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,080 I wasn't part of the team, but that was a young coach in Mike 326 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,160 Davis who knew he had other coaching jobs ahead of him. 327 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,720 And I'm sure is like, all right, I have a platform. 328 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,280 I'm I'm I'm being fired from Indiana, but I'm going to be 329 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,040 hired somewhere else. Like this is now my resume tape 330 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,680 to get another job. I'm going to show what I can do. 331 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,880 And you know, he he kind of that team rallied here. 332 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,840 You have a guy in Woodson, it's like this is the end. 333 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,640 I mean, he might be an assistant in the NBA. 334 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,840 Like he's not going to get another head coaching job in 335 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,400 college. He's not going to get another 336 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,080 head coaching job in the NBA. So there's not like this. 337 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,000 I really got to show what I can do so I can, you know, get the 338 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,680 Atlanta Hawks job again, like this is it. 339 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,920 And and whether he gets an assistant job is going to be 340 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,960 based on nothing to do the next couple weeks is going to going 341 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,319 to make that happen or not happen one way or the other. 342 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,640 And I think it's a huge difference because there's a 343 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,319 huge mindset of how they're going to be going into it. 344 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,880 All the saying, I don't see this team. 345 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,119 I I'd be surprised this team having that four or five game 346 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,920 like win streak at the end here. I don't think anybody quite knew 347 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,400 how IU was going to react and I think a lot of people 348 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,880 optimistically assumed it was going to be a similar kind of 349 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,640 thing. It just looked like the same 350 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,120 team as it has, you know, and I and I really do think that it's 351 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,840 a different era of basketball. And that's not a criticism, you 352 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,000 know, but in terms of roster movement, you know, you could 353 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,720 yeah, all these guys are like, I'm like, I'm putting my tape 354 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,120 out there. Well, but you can like you can 355 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:49,920 move somewhere else And and it's not. 356 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,680 And we saw that with so that with Louisville last year. 357 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,320 We we've seen it with other programs. 358 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,920 So I just, I don't know if what happened 20 years ago is really 359 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,600 going to continue to be relevant when it comes to these sorts of 360 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,280 scenarios. Everybody's eyes were on the 361 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,400 crowd, like how was the crowd going to react? 362 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,960 And it sounded like the crowd reacted just fine. 363 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:15,400 And so now you've got this weird almost void that you step into 364 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,680 as an IU fan. Well, and going off the crowd, 365 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,960 because I'll just say for what we saw at the upstairs, like you 366 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,680 mentioned this, you've mentioned this the last couple years at 367 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,360 our live events, but it it I, I need to restate it here that 368 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,600 it's like I I walk away from this, seeing how I use crowd 369 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,200 reactive at Assembly Hall, how the crowd was at the upstairs, 370 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,400 which is people were cheering. We're chanting like the hit hit 371 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,440 threes. We were going nuts. 372 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,400 It's like these fans of which I'm one of and you are too, like 373 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,440 just we deserve better. Like we just, we deserve some 374 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,680 wins. Like this is a fan base that is 375 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,600 just continually giving. It feels like and just and maybe 376 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,560 deserve isn't the right word, but it's just like, man, for, 377 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,040 for as bad as things have been and for another year, we're at 378 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,960 this point, you know, to me, venom and vitriol is, is 379 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,560 justified after what fans have been through and they're they're 380 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,040 still always kind of coming back with a positive. 381 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,360 Eye it just sucks that it's like it continues to feel like Lucy 382 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,360 in the football. I it's, it's just, it's just 383 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,480 been, as you said, it's been a, a difficult fandom in that 384 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,440 there's, I think I know we've talked about this in previous 385 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,280 years, like there just haven't been many rewards for being an 386 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,480 IU fan. It'll at least not the last 387 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,440 couple of years. And we've talked about it in 388 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,200 terms of like there's not a lot of marquee wins outside of, of 389 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,560 Woodson's teams being competitive against Purdue. 390 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,640 But you go back to the Archie Miller era and even that wasn't 391 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,280 happening there. You know, you, you've had these 392 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,800 travel avoid, you know, these, these trips where people are 393 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,000 going to Atlantis or going to Atlanta or going to New York or 394 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,560 going to Vegas. And those haven't been rewarding 395 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:48,720 either. Yeah. 396 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:54,160 And and so it does feel like I don't know that people are going 397 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,880 to necessarily be any kinder if the team doesn't play well. 398 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:02,160 It just kind of feels awkward now as opposed to people feeling 399 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,080 like they can't root for IU because if they're rooting for 400 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,200 IU then it might sustain the current. 401 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,120 Trajectory of the program and not force change that is clearly 402 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,920 very much needed and that is that's what that IU statement 403 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,760 felt like is you know in the NBA you can root for law like it's 404 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,200 now normal to root for losses because then you're going to get 405 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,160 a better draft like it's like let's get Cooper flag all right 406 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,720 great. We let's lose more and that's 407 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,120 very standard in the NBA. It, it that's kind of what the 408 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,280 way, you know, moving into the discussion about what, you know, 409 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,920 the IU athletic department did on Thursday and Friday, It's 410 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,240 like, that's very much to be what that statement felt like as 411 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,920 you read between the lines. It was like, hey, stop booing 412 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,400 us. Like we're going to do 413 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,880 something. Don't worry. 414 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,280 And we'll you know, we, we will like you don't need to root for 415 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,680 losses. You don't need to be mean. 416 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,120 We're going to do something. We just can't do it right now. 417 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,560 And that's kind of what was going on. 418 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,600 And that's kind of the spot we're in now where it's like, 419 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,200 OK, we can, we can now be normal fans again, rooting for wins. 420 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,400 Because even if this team goes on a run, we, we know that, you 421 00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,840 know, we're going to see some changes. 422 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,840 Yeah, I mean, the the if you haven't read the Greg Doyle 423 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,920 piece in the Star, it's it's a wild ride in terms of, you know 424 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,160 what what he alleges the breakdown of things was over the 425 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,400 couple of days leading into the Michigan game with Woodson. 426 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,720 Like wanting to stop coaching right away and then that not 427 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,960 working out for financial reasons and then ending up 428 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,600 coaching. And it's just it's a very weird 429 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,840 thing right now because it's there. 430 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,880 And I tried to talk about this on that little miniature podcast 431 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,240 I recorded yesterday. Whatever the actual scenario was 432 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,200 behind the scenes, it does not feel like everybody's got this 433 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,200 the best interests of the program's trajectory at the 434 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,880 forefront. And you get you understand that 435 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,640 to some degree, not saying that I. 436 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,880 Kind of don't because like that was the whole idea of hiring 437 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,720 and. Let me let me clarify. 438 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,400 What I mean by that is people are trying to watch out for 439 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,800 themselves, it looks like. But also, you know, I think 440 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,520 there's a a realization it, it appears from the way that 441 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,560 athletics has handled this, that there's not really an easy way 442 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,200 to fix this. And so it has to be allowed to 443 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,000 be played out on the court if this is going to be how things 444 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,720 maintain. And that doesn't mean it's going 445 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,240 to be necessarily pretty or anything like that as it moves 446 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,160 forward. But that seems to be the 447 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,720 circumstance. And that's just going to make 448 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,680 for a very uninspiring run down the stretch. 449 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,360 Because if if you've if you've made the decision, you're going 450 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,600 to move on. And then the coach is like, 451 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,240 well, maybe we should just move on now. 452 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,000 But you're still watching that person coach. 453 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,920 And again, this is just what's going off of what the Doyle 454 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,800 article or alleged occurred. Like that's a really awkward 455 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,440 situation for a basketball program. 456 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,160 And it's a really awkward situation for fans because look, 457 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,280 at the end of the day, we can talk about tournament 458 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,920 aspirations, we can talk about where teams are in the polls. 459 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,080 We can talk about all of these higher layers, like where the 460 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,560 expectations should be. But at the core of the 461 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,400 basketball experience, you want to see your team play well and 462 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,120 win games. And that's been in very short 463 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,080 supply in the Big 10. This is not a, a, a Stew that's 464 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,560 going to produce like a lot of good moments for Indiana here 465 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,880 over these last seven games plus the Big 10 tournament. 466 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,560 And there's not now you've had the announcement, but there's 467 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,960 not really another out. There's like now we just have to 468 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,680 wait. And fans are going to get more 469 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,560 and more impatient if they continue to see like a the lack 470 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,080 of execution, consistency and all these things that are 471 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,760 leading to these losses. It's just going to be a very 472 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,560 weird scenario here the next month and 1/2. 473 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,280 No, I agree. I mean, I by my parents got 474 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,600 divorced later, you know, when I was in like middle school, high 475 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,200 school, but they they went through like a four year 476 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,280 separation period, but coming back in and then layer on top of 477 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,080 that, they owned a business together, which they still owned 478 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,400 after they got divorced. It was like, it's kind of like 479 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,480 watching that where it's like there's these moments of like, 480 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,200 well, we're going to get divorced, so we're not doing 481 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,400 anything for the next three weeks. 482 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,520 And it's like, OK, well, this is this is going to be an awesome 483 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,840 three weeks. I'm going to my friend's house. 484 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,000 Like unfortunately I can't like I can't just go to Auburn and be 485 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,680 like, well, hey, guys, I'm a fan now. 486 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,000 What's up? Where where's the gear? 487 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,320 Home field will take care. Home field could take care of 488 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,080 you in these situations. But like, that's kind of what it 489 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520 feels like to me is like, this is when I would just go to my 490 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,880 friend's house for Thanksgiving because it's like this, this is 491 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,720 weird here. I'm. 492 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,120 I'm going over there. Yeah. 493 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,640 I mean, there are no outs. And it it felt like this was 494 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,000 also going to be the high watermark of kind of fans giving 495 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,320 this team a Mulligan, so to speak. 496 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,400 And again, I'm not I'm not saying that booing or any of 497 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,360 that stuff is we continue to say that like is right. 498 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,240 But you know, fans who have paid a premium for tickets for years. 499 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,400 There's also a part where I'm like, fans have a say too. 500 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,560 Like it's just some point. I think that's partially what 501 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,360 some of this vitriol is, is that fans, especially IU fans, 502 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:51,080 sometimes feel like we're just not heard. 503 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,560 And not that we need to be heard, not that we're like, we 504 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,200 are part of the process and that like, you need donors and you 505 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,120 need people to buy tickets. And it's like we're always being 506 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,640 blamed for everything. We're always like, you got to be 507 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,240 louder. You got to show up earlier, You 508 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,520 got to be there and oh, by the way, you got to pay more money. 509 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,840 And and then when fans are like, Hey, this feels like we're going 510 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,840 down a wrong decision here with coach, you know, XY or Z, it's 511 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,280 like shut up and and literally sometimes we're being told by 512 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,640 the coach to shut up and be a real fan and or chill or chill. 513 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,160 Yes, and that people get pissed at that. 514 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,040 It's like I'm tired of just being a Piggy Bank at times. 515 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,880 And I'm just I'm just I'm voicing kind of I think the 516 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,960 overarching concern. I think, you know, this is one 517 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,680 thing that IU has to deal with is you've kind of treated your 518 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,160 fans poorly for years and you've treated them, you know, so you 519 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,560 need to just kind of live through this and then make the 520 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,440 right, you know, make make some good decisions. 521 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,600 But yeah, it's I think that the rest of the home games are going 522 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,400 to be increasingly more interesting and probably 523 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840 increasingly more funky. I would say if the losses 524 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,800 continue to pile up and Purdue could be a wild sight because 525 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800 the the aftermarket as somebody who owes has tickets, the 526 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,760 secondary market is still really good on those tickets. 527 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,880 And I wonder if it's not people from Bloomington, but people 528 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,600 from West West Lafayette. And it could be a very pro 529 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,640 Purdue crowd in Assembly Hall. Yeah, I mean, I we see this in 530 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,960 football sometimes in past years in the dark times, which was 531 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,440 well, pretty much all of the times. 532 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,360 But but no, it's it is weird to watch it with basketball And 533 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,240 look, everything you said, yes, I think fans have voiced 534 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,120 frustrations, you know, online, reasonable fans. 535 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,720 We're not talking about the lunatic fringe about, you know, 536 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,880 it's and it's not so much I think that fans don't feel 537 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,840 heard. It's that fans feel like the 538 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,240 priorities of the program have not been being one of the best 539 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,560 programs in the country. A lot of lip service paid to 540 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,800 that, a lot of money, but not a lot of let's make sure that 541 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,000 we're on, you know, part of the the forefront of college 542 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,640 basketball in terms of style play, in terms of recruits, in 543 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,360 terms of approach. And as it, you know, again, we 544 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,720 talked about this before, but I think everybody was told, oh, 545 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,760 things will be different this upcoming year and everybody 546 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,720 bought into that in in the media, we talked about it. 547 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,960 We try to take the approach that, well, maybe things will be 548 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,400 different this time. But a lot of fans were skeptical 549 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,520 and they're now not just watching their skepticism be 550 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:22,800 justified, but they are. I mean, at this point, you know, 551 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,360 it's already we've all like it's January 11th was the Iowa loss 552 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,720 and there's been one one point overtime victory since January 553 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,880 11th. And they have to go to Michigan 554 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,800 State. So it's very likely you're going 555 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,440 to have a an entire 30 plus days unless you win at Michigan 556 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,480 State, which I'm not saying is impossible, but seems unlikely, 557 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,960 right? That where you're just you're 558 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,360 going to have one, one point overtime win. 559 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,840 And that's going to be the one thing that you can put in front 560 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,960 of your fans and say, here's something to feel good about. 561 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,160 And that was and and that was on Peacock. 562 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,000 So like most people, right, you know, like most people were 563 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,760 like, well, let's not even bother watching it. 564 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,480 So. Maybe that maybe that's the 565 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,440 reason you buy Peacock. It's like, hey, you should buy 566 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,760 Peacock. You never know where our winds 567 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:09,920 are going to come. But I mean. 568 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,000 One of the things I talked about at the live show yesterday was I 569 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,160 do feel bad for younger fans. I mean people our age who've 570 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,920 been fans since the 80s. There was obviously a lot of 571 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,960 older fans in our audience that have been watching IU basketball 572 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,720 for longer than that. We hear from many of those 573 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,400 folks. There's just a, there's a 574 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,520 frustration that's different at different levels. 575 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,080 The older fans lament the lack of, of fundamentals and, and, 576 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:35,200 you know, and, and what they watched and how this doesn't 577 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,800 really correlate with IU basketball. 578 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,720 We just have been watching this backslide in terms of, you know, 579 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,320 the program being stuck in neutral for over a decade. 580 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,040 And it's like, well, when we came of age as basketball fans, 581 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,080 it was the apex. And it's been a basically a 582 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,400 decline since then. And then it got younger fans for 583 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,720 whom, and I've talked about this before, like, I don't know 584 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,840 what's what is binding you to IU basketball. 585 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,680 What moments are making you an IU basketball fan? 586 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,320 These are this is not an inexhaustible reservoir of 587 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,040 fandom. Like people need a reason to 588 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,360 root for your team. And those reasons are almost 589 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,160 always connected to moments. You know, the, the watch shot is 590 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800 like one of the few moments that people can point back to. 591 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,160 It's like getting a 15 year. It is but that, but that's why 592 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,640 it's it's played over and over again because it's like there's 593 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,880 that and there's like the the game day game against Michigan 594 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,800 and there just haven't been a lot of moments that you would 595 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,400 look at and say that was special. 596 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840 I my fandom, you're. Freshman right now, the freshman 597 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,240 in your class when the watch shot happened, what they were in 598 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,320 what grade? Well, they would have been 599 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,720 pretty young. They would have been, they would 600 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,400 have not been. Some of them may not have been 601 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,320 in a grade. No, we're talking about that was 602 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,520 in 2000, December of 2011 and you know, freshman this year 603 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:59,920 were born in 2000, what 2, 2007, 2008 in some cases they were. 604 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,680 They were four or five, so. I I think I actually have the 605 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,000 math wrong there, but no, I'm, I'm not that far off. 606 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,640 Yeah, my. 18 My 2025 is 2007, so they were four. 607 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,240 They were not in a grade. So that's, that's my point. 608 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,880 And God, time, time moves fast and what's going on. 609 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,640 And so look, I'm, I, I want to stop this part of the 610 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,240 conversation by saying the following. 611 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,920 I'm glad Indiana and Woodson finally announced that they're 612 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,680 going to make a move. And I'm glad that as much as we 613 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,040 were concerned about this earlier, that whatever the 614 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,720 prevailing feelings were in the room and, and, and I'm sure 615 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,400 that'll come out later, the outcome was what it needed to 616 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,720 be, which is that we've got to move on and go in a different 617 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,760 direction. And that process has to start. 618 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,800 But I the fact that Indiana is in the state that they're in 619 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,720 right now, where fans are likely just going to have to watch 620 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,240 Indiana wallowing in this kind of neutral gear, not good enough 621 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960 to really punch through against any of the teams that are above 622 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,320 them in the Big 10 pecking order. 623 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,320 And discovering that you're placing the pecking orders like 624 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,200 13th, 14th maybe is that's going to be a real tough thing for a 625 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,320 lot of IU fans to digest. And so you're either going to 626 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,760 have people kind of mass disconnecting or people are 627 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,040 going to just continue to watch and just be continually 628 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,560 frustrated over this next six weeks. 629 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,280 It'll be fine. You know, it's not like we need 630 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,840 to necessarily complain about it. 631 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,200 It's just it sucks that this is the route that has to be taken 632 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,240 and that it got to the point that it did. 633 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,600 And I don't know how, I don't know how many more times. 634 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,480 And we talked about this and this, this is a nice transition 635 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,560 point. Like it's why Indiana just 636 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,040 absolutely has to get this higher, right? 637 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,360 Because you're you're going to basically what make your fans 638 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,920 watch a team limping to the finish line for the last two 639 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,760 months, 2 1/2 months of the season. 640 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,680 And then you better have somebody in the holster that you 641 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,400 can bring out and say, here is the way forward. 642 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:02,440 This person will galvanized you. This person is, is going to be 643 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,960 the the the key figure in the reorganization of Indiana 644 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,040 basketball. It's a tall ask. 645 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,720 And you're going to be coming off this period here where IU 646 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,880 basketball looks the very same listless way that it's looked 647 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,080 over the last several years, but maybe worse. 648 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,960 Because it's a team that the fans really don't have much of 649 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,880 an emotional connection with. It might be semantic. 650 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,640 I disagree in that you have to get it right this time, if only 651 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,560 because after 20 plus years, it's, it's still a relatively 652 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,440 solid fan base that's there that's showing up. 653 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,160 I, I, I feel like they can get it wrong. 654 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,200 And in a couple, your new coach is always going to give you a 655 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,160 bounce. People are no matter who it is. 656 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,400 I mean, Woodson was an interesting hire and we all 657 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,560 found ways to justify why it was exciting. 658 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,520 I'm being semantic. I I think to me what IU has to 659 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,840 do this time is just be more decisive. 660 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,280 And I've said this a bunch of times, you it's hard to know why 661 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,760 coaches work moving up and why they don't. 662 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,120 You know, it's, it's like that, you know, why did you hire 663 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,680 Signetti before? It's like, because guys like 664 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,600 Signetti are hard. Like that's hard to tell. 665 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,600 Like they try like Cam Cameron was theoretically supposed to be 666 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,640 a Signetti type and he wasn't. I mean, different, different 667 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,880 profiles and all that, But you know, to me, it's like you have 668 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,960 to be more decisive. I look at that 2019 season. 669 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,720 It's like that losing 6 in a row in the big 10 in your second 670 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,920 year should be a massive red flag. 671 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,040 You know, and you, you look at Woodson, Archie, you know, the, 672 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,200 the Korean is just a, is a, is a different example for different 673 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,960 reasons. But under both Woodson and 674 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,360 Archie, a lot of the things that became massive issues in year 4 675 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,360 were real issues in year 2 if you were looking and paying 676 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,920 attention. And that that's where I think 677 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,520 Indiana needs to, I understand me. 678 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,280 And the the flip side is we always look at Samson, take the 679 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640 other stuff aside. It's like by year 2, he showed 680 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,280 that he was doing pretty well. Like when it works and you have 681 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,440 the right coach, it clicks and it clicks early. 682 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,480 So that that would be my thing is I think they can mess up the 683 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,560 higher. They just have to be decisive. 684 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,920 They can't keep giving these long runways. 685 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,280 I guess what I meant by saying they have to get it right is. 686 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,000 You have to get fans back on board, but more importantly, you 687 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,280 have to get donors on board. There has to be a, a galvanizing 688 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,080 figure because Indiana's going to need donations for nil. 689 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,080 They're going to need, they're going to need financial heft 690 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,800 behind things. You're probably going to have 691 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,239 to, I mean, depending on who they end up hiring, you may have 692 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,760 to pay a buyout that's significant to get the right 693 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,639 person, but you need to pay the buyout to get the right person. 694 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,040 This is one of those situations where I hear names thrown about 695 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,199 and it's like, well, that person's too expensive because 696 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,960 they have this buyout. And it's like, look, the I use 697 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,639 one of the few places where you could justify paying a large 698 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,159 buyout for the right college basketball coach as opposed to 699 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,840 rolling the dice on somebody that you weren't sure of. 700 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,600 Now, as we've seen with some of the hires Indiana's made, there 701 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,880 may be no such thing as a sure thing in the hiring process. 702 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:58,840 But I do think that there's it's a different game now in terms of 703 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,240 the resourcing and the way that recruiting works and how that 704 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,360 interacts with the money. And the fact that what you 705 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,360 really need is someone who's got the the logistical capabilities 706 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,400 of running a basketball program while also the basketball acumen 707 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,240 and some of the other things can fill themselves in. 708 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,320 Indiana has not always hired with those things in the 709 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,280 forefront of their mind. And I just, you're right, like 710 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,120 there's, there are still fans in proximity to the program paying 711 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,360 attention. My point is more that there's a 712 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,520 there's a level of connectivity with the basketball program that 713 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,200 you're going to really have to evaluate because of the fact 714 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,680 that not only have you had a second year of really 715 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,480 disappointing play, but you are also now largely severing with 716 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,560 the past by, you know, essentially forcing out a former 717 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,440 night player who was back here coaching the team and was 718 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,760 serving as a bridge between the past and the future. 719 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,400 It's like, what is the the identity of Indiana basketball? 720 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,760 What is it that Indiana basketball is is creating for 721 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,640 itself as an identity? What does it want to be? 722 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,320 I don't think that there's any definition for that except the 723 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,520 new hire. The new hires decisions on 724 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,800 identity of Indiana basketball are going to largely play into 725 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,040 what that identity becomes. That's why I'm saying like you 726 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,160 have to get it right because Indiana above all else, I don't 727 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,560 think can continue to go forward with this kind of listless 728 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,160 identity list program that doesn't really have a calling 729 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,720 card, doesn't really have an effective focus. 730 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,440 And it's certainly possible to do that with the right hires. 731 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,000 And you see the ones that have made sense with that across the 732 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,680 country. You look what Dan Hurley has 733 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,840 done at UConn and re establishing an identity that 734 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,000 that program had largely lost. You see what Rick Pitino has 735 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,480 done in terms of establishing an identity at St. 736 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,120 John's. You see what Nate Oates has done 737 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,800 establishing an identity at Alabama where one did not exist 738 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,960 before Bruce Pearl at Auburn. You know, these are the kinds of 739 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,080 things that I think IU really has to think about the the 740 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,480 coaching hires that have been made-up to this point haven't 741 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,840 worked for a variety of reasons. And that's not something that 742 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,960 can hinder you from going out and doing what you need to do 743 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,920 here. She's going to be interesting 744 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,320 because I don't know how fans are really going to feel about 745 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,280 it. And you see this in the 746 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,280 responses we get or the unsolicited comments we get 747 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,960 about who they should be going after. 748 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,840 Nobody has a consensus idea of what Indiana's basketball coach 749 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,680 should be or who they should be. I find that fascinating. 750 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,440 But that's why I keep saying like, they have to get this 751 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,600 higher, right? Because they got to start lining 752 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,400 up behind something that works and and that has just not 753 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,160 happened over the last 10-15 years. 754 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,400 That's a that's a agree with that very valid point. 755 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,920 The the thing that I find I was thinking about this on the drive 756 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,120 home yesterday and this morning was, you know, you, you look at 757 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,480 the, the, the coaching hot boards that are popping up. 758 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,200 And I'm not going to dig into any of these names, but it's 759 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,000 like you're seeing a lot of the same names, whether it's, you 760 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,640 know, Cronin or Chris Beard or Todd Golden or, you know, Steve 761 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,040 Alford still pops up on some of these, but that I'm going to use 762 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,480 them as a point. Dusty Mays there. 763 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,760 What's funny is in our lives, Galen, you know, these are not 764 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,400 perfect archetypes, but IU has kind of hired all of these 765 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,760 archetypes before at some point. So I'm going to go through it. 766 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,040 You know, you the one here that doesn't fit, you have Mike 767 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,760 Davis, which is the assistant moving up. 768 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080 I don't I don't think we're going to move an assistant up 769 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,760 unless you've hired Calvert Chaney, but you have the 770 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,520 assistant moving up. You had Calvin Sampson, which is 771 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,600 the great coach with a Final Four experience, but also has 772 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,560 some baggage. There's guys on our list that 773 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,040 look like that. You have Tom Creed, the great 774 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,680 coach with Final Four experience with no bag, you know, no real 775 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,920 baggage there. You have Archie Miller, the 776 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,400 young hotshot from a mid major. And then you have Mike Woodson, 777 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,720 the alumni hire and also a former, you know, the NBA coach 778 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:41,240 coming down. And and what's funny is layered 779 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,480 on top of all of this is you have just I'm just in his own 780 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,560 cat. You have Brad Stevens. 781 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,760 It's like he's been there for all those the the savior that's 782 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,960 not going to come. But it's just it is odd that as 783 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,160 I'm looking at all of these, it's like, Oh, Chris Beard kind 784 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,640 of fits the Samson mold. And you're like all of the 785 00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,280 coaches that are on the hot board fit a coach that we've 786 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,120 already kind of hired before and it hasn't worked. 787 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,000 And I think this goes to kind of a point that you've talked about 788 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,320 that I've talked about that, you know, you just have to get the 789 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,280 right coach and the you know what that alchemy is. 790 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,960 I think it's hard to figure out. But once you get the right 791 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,160 coach, everything will be fine. You you said something in one of 792 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,440 your last pods. It's like totally click with me. 793 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,320 I told you this yesterday too, that you know, all you heard 794 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,760 about with IU footballs, all of these like inherent problems the 795 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,240 program has. Like it can't do this because 796 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,240 of, you know, because of fan support, because of facilities, 797 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,120 because of where it is, because of recruiting base. 798 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,880 It's like, you know, Signetti comes in and suddenly none of 799 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,120 those problems are there. She's like, hey, we're good and 800 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,440 we're winning because I know what I'm doing. 801 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,480 It's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. 802 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,240 I mean, you can look at Alabama basketball, same thing. 803 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:50,280 It's like, oh, they're they're never going to be, you know, 804 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,560 that the bad recruiting area and like that's all they care about 805 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,800 is football. It's like NATO's can coach like 806 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:55,920 guess what, they're doing pretty well. 807 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,760 And you see this all the time. Bruce Pearl is just going from 808 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,720 place to place where basketball doesn't matter and just making 809 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,080 it matter and winning. Pitino does it. 810 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,120 So like. You have a good coach, you plug 811 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,760 him in, it works. It just, it is interesting to me 812 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,320 that we've tried all the different things and it still 813 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,880 hasn't worked here, which just tells me we're just not hiring 814 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,280 the right coach. And when the right, you know, 815 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,480 that's my positive feeling here is if and when we ever do plug 816 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,520 in the correct coach, it, it, it is going to work and it's going 817 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,680 to work well. But it's, it is, I just find 818 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,600 that funny looking at the hot board and being like, we've 819 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,920 already hired most of these archetypes before along the way. 820 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,560 But I guess when you do hire 6 coaches and in 20 years, you 821 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,280 have to take a lot of different kinds of swings. 822 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,440 Well, and I think the key is like archetype doesn't matter. 823 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,000 It's the person that matters. And that's this is where I think 824 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,440 it's you get caught up in, you know, you can look at a coach. 825 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,440 And say, well, that person wouldn't work out here or that 826 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,920 person wouldn't be interested in being here or that person would 827 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,640 be perfect for this. And you don't really know. 828 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,600 Like so much of this is guesswork on the part of, of 829 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,920 journalists, on the part of fans, you know, And there are 830 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,520 there are some coaches who are doing really well in certain 831 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,880 situations who I think would really struggle at Indiana 832 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,200 because it's such a different type of job, because you have so 833 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,520 much power, because you have so many financial resources and 834 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,840 because there are expectations that you have to get things 835 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,040 moving. Now, I, I constantly go back to 836 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,560 this idea that the expectations being the problem is not that 837 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,960 like that's, that's ludicrous. It's, you know, when coaches 838 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,200 haven't lived up to the expectations of the job to you'd 839 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,080 think it'd just be like, well, in any other sporting endeavor, 840 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,200 you're going to constantly complain about, well, no, there 841 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,400 are expectations. The X's and Joe's show did a 842 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,680 great job on this. You know, you're going to feel 843 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,240 the competitive fire of your rivals outperforming you, which 844 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:54,760 is certainly happening with Indiana. 845 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,600 You're going to feel like the general national competitiveness 846 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,880 or it's like we know we should be in the Champions Classic or 847 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,680 we should be the ones in the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8 getting 848 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,840 all the air time and getting people talking about them. 849 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,360 And you know, coaches, I don't, I don't see why you would look 850 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,280 at the success coaches have in certain places that have not had 851 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,120 a lot of historical success and say, well, that's the coaches 852 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,880 that are making that happen. But then turn around and look at 853 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,200 places where you have the keys to success unless they are under 854 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,200 resourced. Like say a UCLA is under 855 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,520 resourced and say, well, that's the program's fault. 856 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,280 So This is why it's going to be interesting. 857 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,560 And again, I guess it goes back to, from my perspective, IU 858 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,520 fans, because of the way that this team has played in the last 859 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,320 two years under Woodson and because of the general malaise 860 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,320 and the fact that this is 9 straight years of 10 or more 861 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,920 losses that Indiana suffered in in the season. 862 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,720 Fans of I think fans are starting to believe that there 863 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,880 really is something wrong with Indiana basketball, though. 864 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,840 There really is something structurally wrong. 865 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:57,400 And it's hard to counter that by, you know, saying, well, 866 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,800 look, all it takes is one higher or the right higher, as you were 867 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,120 saying earlier, and that fixes it. 868 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,040 That's what's going to make this end game so difficult with the 869 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,640 Woodson departure. And it's also, again, why it's 870 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,240 like, if you have an underwhelming hire, it may end 871 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,080 up working out long term, but you got a lot of goodwill that 872 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,720 you as an athletic department and as a program have to win 873 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:19,840 back from the fans. Because in their minds, it's not 874 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,960 just this experience that is allowed to be perpetuated for 875 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,760 too long, but it's the entire structure of the last nine years 876 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,520 that have made it harder and harder to feel proud about being 877 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,400 an Indiana basketball fan. Can I ask for a quick 2-3 minute 878 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,320 mini lecture from Doctor GC about when you see an odd name 879 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,200 on a national hot board? Why is it there? 880 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,200 Now obviously, I mean, you're you're some of the ones that you 881 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,080 know, you know, Crispier makes a lot of sense. 882 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,760 Just like there's some names, but it's like this makes sense 883 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,960 to be there, you know, like, OK. And then all of a sudden you'll 884 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,440 see a name. It's like, why is that name 885 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:53,240 there? That's weird. 886 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,560 Galen, please go. Well, you, you got to keep in 887 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,080 mind, and we've talked about the the way that the information 888 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,200 complex works in sports, but where does news come from? 889 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,120 Like where does source news come from? 890 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,600 And in many cases, especially with national writers, I'm not 891 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,560 talking about your local writers, because I think your 892 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,640 local writers, they're a lot more invested in credibility 893 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,560 when it comes to covering that team. 894 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,320 And for most national writers talking about the Indiana job as 895 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,760 a drive by thing, you know, like it's not something that you're 896 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,680 dedicating a ton of time to, but you've got coach's agents out 897 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,200 there actively working the phones saying, oh, you know, 898 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,000 this our our guy's a candidate or our guy got contacted through 899 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,960 intermediaries. Now that guy ends up on a 900 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,200 coaching search list with no intention of ever leaving his 901 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,880 current job. But now his name is being 902 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,720 circulated. And if you're the the home team, 903 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:45,640 the team that's got that coach, well, now you got to think, 904 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,720 well, gosh, do we got to give him an extension or you do have 905 00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:50,560 to change is buy out something like that. 906 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,120 So you do get a lot of maneuvering that happens there. 907 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040 You've also, and we're this happened actually with the last. 908 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,200 This actually would have been, I think the coaching search in 909 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,040 might have been the post Crean one, but it might have been the 910 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,880 Woodson one. I forget which one, but there 911 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,160 was I talked with a pretty well known journalist who continued 912 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,960 to insist that a certain former IU player was a a heavily 913 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,120 considered candidate for the job. 914 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,880 And that became part of the narrative. 915 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,080 And then someone else was hired for the job. 916 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,600 And it turned out that that coach had claimed that they were 917 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,000 being heavily infer like considered within the the 918 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,120 process and they were not actually. 919 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,280 And I obviously that that journalist was like, I'm not 920 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,320 listening to that coach again on anything because they lied. 921 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,120 But that happens consistently. And when you think about, well, 922 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,560 these are sources and you, you might take it with a grain of 923 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,200 salt, but if someone tells you something and they seem to be in 924 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,000 a position of authority where they might know, you've got to 925 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,680 at least give that some credence, even if it's being 926 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,600 used as a ploy. So the point in saying all this, 927 00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,120 and I think why Scott wanted me to talk about this is you, you 928 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,960 really don't know much about who's actually interested, who 929 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,640 the school is interested in. And Indiana over the course of 930 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,520 the last several coaching searches has been very, they're 931 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,840 very good at not communicating their hand. 932 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,720 We haven't always liked the cards that they've ended up 933 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:23,080 playing, but they've been very good at not communicating like 934 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,920 who's you know, who's in the finalists pool, who's gotten the 935 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,000 chance to to get talked about. And I've been around long enough 936 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,120 now where, you know, having heard some backstories 937 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,000 afterwards comparing what people thought was going on with what 938 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,600 was actually going on. I my, my, my message to the 939 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,880 listeners or the viewers is don't get too caught up in the 940 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,000 hot board lists that you see on the message boards or coming 941 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,040 from the athletic or from on three, because there's a whole 942 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,680 Stew of influences in there. And most of the people who are 943 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,240 writing have very little direct input or understand input, but 944 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,280 very little direct observation of the actual process that's 945 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,400 going on. And just because something is 946 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,520 heard does not mean that that thing that is heard actually is 947 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,880 occurring. There may be other elements that 948 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,400 are causing that to be communicated. 949 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,560 I'm sorry I had to be so vague with it, but that's essentially 950 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,800 how the process works in macro. Yeah, No, no, it's it, it, it 951 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,000 opened my eyes to it. I also think that the one I as I 952 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,200 thought about it more and kind of talk to you like I think the 953 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,640 other thing too is you can see sometimes see young coaches will 954 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,680 try and get on there not to get a leverage point of their own 955 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,520 school, which is good. But also you can leverage points 956 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,400 like, hey, man, I've been named for the UCLA and the Anna job. 957 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,760 Maybe I should get the Marquette job. 958 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,280 I'm not saying it's like a smart, but it's like you can 959 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,560 work your way up and be like, it's kind of that like, Hey, 960 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,920 I've dated all these hot girls. Like I need to now be in the, in 961 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:42,800 the party kind of the George Costanza thing. 962 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,040 Like if you've been named in a bunch of hot boards, like it's 963 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,080 like, wow, I didn't realize he was that, that high up. 964 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,920 It's like you're not, you're just naming yourself there. 965 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,120 But no, I, I think the other point is, you know, we, we've 966 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,080 seen this with football, we've seen it with the higher. 967 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,600 You know, Dolson's made a couple of hires now Indiana keeps this 968 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,160 stuff very tight lipped throughout the process. 969 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,680 And I don't see that changing. And I see it even being more 970 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,040 tight lipped because now you have more time and and time is 971 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,920 what kills kind of the the the information getting out. 972 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,240 So I'd be shocked to see any kind of leakings between now and 973 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:21,320 honestly the NCAA tournament. And even then, you know, then 974 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,720 we'll start playing the game of like, all right, do I think this 975 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:25,560 is the coach? And are they going to be, you 976 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,280 know, do we have to wait for them to finish playing? 977 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,760 But, you know, I, I think we've seen over and over again, 978 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,040 Indiana is going to keep their clothes, their, their cards very 979 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,520 close to the best. And I, I think sometimes they 980 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,800 don't, they don't even hire a, a search firm, which is that, 981 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,680 that's where I think the leaks come out of a lot of times. 982 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,440 Well, there, there's a, there's almost always a search firm 983 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,600 involved largely to keep it so that you're not communicating 984 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,320 directly with any parties, so everybody can maintain plausible 985 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,880 deniability. But yes, if you don't feel like 986 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,160 you have to use one of those firms technically or it feels 987 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,960 like that, sorry, they haven't used a search firm to do the 988 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,160 searching that that's well, and that's, yeah, I do think there's 989 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,480 a vetting process that everybody has to go through with these 990 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,000 things. It depends on what you end up 991 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,400 hiring in that. But yeah, so it's, you know, the 992 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,360 ultimately it's going to be an interesting process. 993 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,960 It's just going to be so slow. I mean, we're going to we're 994 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,320 about to wrap up here because we've got six to seven maybe 8 995 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,960 weeks before we're going to really learn anything. 996 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,160 And that sounds wild, but like when you announce that on on the 997 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,200 7th of February that your coach is going to the. 998 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,880 First Day The first day is the NCAA tournament are March 20th 999 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,080 and 21st. I would be shocked if it is 1000 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,040 named before that. If you again, I, I, I really 1001 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,120 don't know where I, I do not know where we're going with it. 1002 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,640 But if you assume you're going to get a coach who might go to 1003 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,120 the second weekend of, of March, you're looking at like April 1004 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,320 first, March 31st before you can announce something. 1005 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,040 It's February 9th, man. I know that's like. 1006 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,640 Like we're closer to the Indy 500 than naming our coach. 1007 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,160 Well, not quite, but yeah, we're going to be closer to the 500. 1008 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,160 I I horrible way of saying that. Sorry. 1009 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,120 I get, I get what you're saying. The hiring date could be closer 1010 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,360 to the Indy 500 than now. I thank you. 1011 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,120 Thank you. But, but, but it's a good point 1012 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,480 and it's something that it's why we we tried to talk a little bit 1013 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,880 about coaching search candidates and what we might think or about 1014 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,960 with that process in the show yesterday. 1015 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,040 But the reality is if you are trying to hire a coach, that's 1016 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,720 like going to a Final Four, like you're not going to be able to 1017 00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,920 make an announcement till April sometime and. 1018 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:35,080 Final four, you're talking? Yeah, April 8910, I mean, so 1019 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,360 after spring break. So we're going to we're going to 1020 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,160 have a slow burn on this and that's going to be a really 1021 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,640 interesting thing to watch as. And I guess this kind of goes 1022 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,920 back to the point I was trying to make earlier, which is that 1023 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,880 you to have to Stew in this without anything really like 1024 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,440 concrete to look forward to is probably going to be hard for IU 1025 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,600 fans. Because as we heard chronic 1026 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,080 Hoosier talk about on on X yesterday, like there's an 1027 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,840 apathy around this program, There's an apathy on the floor. 1028 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:08,560 And that's like the worst thing for IU basketball is apathy. 1029 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,320 It's like you'd rather people were fired up and and feeling 1030 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,360 one way or the other. I know everybody wants tensions 1031 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,520 to be calmed down, but it's the apathy that's been the big 1032 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,080 problem in a lot of ways for how IU has approached basketball and 1033 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:22,760 how fans have gradually thought about it. 1034 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,200 And then to not have a resolution in that potentially 1035 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,080 for another two months is going to just be really weird. 1036 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,800 And so I'm all I can say in that process is we're going to try to 1037 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,320 take it slow. We're going to talk to a lot of 1038 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,240 stakeholders on our podcast, a lot of journalists and friends 1039 00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,440 and observers who've got thoughts on where things are 1040 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,080 going, because I think all these perspectives are important in a 1041 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,240 changeover like this. It's just going to be 1042 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,760 potentially a while before we get any kind of conclusion on 1043 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,080 what this turnover is actually going to end up looking like. 1044 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,800 Yeah, I mean, cause the only other times we've it's weird 1045 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,000 that we've like, oh, we have a cop in this coaching fire 1046 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,600 situation, unfortunately in our lifetime. 1047 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,200 But like even in O 6 as you said, things are. 1048 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,680 Different. We really have two. 1049 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,400 Oh. No, no, I, I yes, that and the 1050 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,160 Samson one. But I was so yeah, but I was 1051 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,440 going to say that the the Davis 1, you know, the the difference 1052 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,600 there is you still had the timeline thing, but it's like 1053 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,480 that was going to be all right, we're now going to hire the 1054 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,800 first coach since Bob Knight. Like Davis was was a unique 1055 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,880 situation with the Knight fires. Like, all right, this is cool. 1056 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:24,840 Like we get to do our first hire. 1057 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,840 And then, as you mentioned, the the Samson 1. 1058 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,840 You know, that was a bizarre situation, but that team still 1059 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,360 had a lot of possibility. I mean, that team was what they 1060 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,520 were guy. Look at they were like, you 1061 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,400 know, 24 and four and 13 and two by February 26th was like this 1062 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,000 team could win in title. Like could this team go to the 1063 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:45,680 final four with an interim coach like that? 1064 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:50,560 That was still a possibility. This is one where you you have 1065 00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,760 the malaise, but you also don't kind of have that excitement of 1066 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,600 like, oh, a coaching search when it's not Bob Knight. 1067 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,240 Like now we've been down this like we've been down all these 1068 00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:01,320 roads too many times. So I I hear everything you're 1069 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:01,840 saying. Yeah. 1070 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,920 Well, a lot that we will have to talk about moving forward here 1071 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,440 and we will, we'll, we'll put the kettle on the back of the 1072 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,760 oven or the stove top and just kind of. 1073 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,640 Last thing I want to say is I hear on some of our podcasts and 1074 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,680 on the network, people talking about, you know, they still have 1075 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,240 a shot at the tournament. I'm kind of joking now, like are 1076 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:24,320 we talking NCAA or Big 10 'cause like, like we're slowly slipping 1077 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,600 out of Big 10 tournament. And I, I, I got to be honest, 1078 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,840 college basketball fan, I'm a podcaster. 1079 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,680 I kind of forgot that not everyone makes the Big 10 1080 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,800 tournament this year. And then being like, oh, wait, 1081 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,800 we actually. So when I hear that now, I'm 1082 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,960 like, are we talking NCAA or Big 10 because we're sliding out of 1083 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,600 Big 10 tournament? Yeah. 1084 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:43,960 Pension. I know. 1085 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,600 No. And I kind of Pooh poohed the 1086 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,440 idea that Indiana might miss the Big 10 tournament. 1087 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,800 I, I still think that they're going to make the Big 10 1088 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,760 tournament. But as you said, Scott, only 15 1089 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,800 teams out of the 18 make it. And I mean, this morning Indiana 1090 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,200 sits at 5:00 and 8:00. You know, Iowa picked up a loss 1091 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,080 last night, but they've still got a game in hand. 1092 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,720 So if they win, they'll be 5 and 8 and actually ahead of IU, 1093 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:12,160 which would put IU for seating purposes, the 14th out of the 15 1094 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,760 teams that would get in. And right behind them would be 1095 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,840 Northwestern at 4:00 and 9:00, who has a tiebreaker over 1096 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,080 Indiana. Washington at 3:00 and 9:00, 1097 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,000 who's yet to play Indiana but could get a tiebreaker, Penn 1098 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,640 State, who's at 3 and 10 after their loss yesterday. 1099 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,800 But if they beat Indiana in Bloomington would at least have 1100 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,720 an even tiebreaker there. I still think Indiana will 1101 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,200 qualify ahead. And then the only other team in 1102 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,640 the mix that's below them right now is Minnesota, who Indiana 1103 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,760 has a tiebreaker over. So I feel fairly good there. 1104 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,920 But yeah, I mean, it's wild that technically, yes, Indiana still 1105 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,760 I I think last yesterday probably was a little bit of a 1106 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,320 death blow to even their bubble talk 'cause they had been in 1107 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,960 that last four out or first four out or next 4 out of a lot of 1108 00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,240 projections, mine included up until this week. 1109 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,400 Now they're in a position where, you know, the three games under 1110 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,880 500 in conference and they are projected to lose 5 of the next 1111 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,080 seven. I mean, if they did that, and I 1112 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:14,720 don't know that they necessarily will, you know, if you're 7 and 1113 00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:18,040 13, I think there's a a really good chance that you might miss 1114 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,320 the Big 10 tournament because you end up tied at 7 and 13 with 1115 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,240 another team who's got a tiebreaker on you. 1116 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:26,080 It's it's a it's a weird. Scenario you make the tournament 1117 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,440 three out of four years that's good enough. 1118 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,520 The Big 10 tournament yes yeah, no. 1119 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,680 Yeah. Asterisk Big 10 tournament Yeah, 1120 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,840 I made the tournament big. 1034 years isn't that good what does 1121 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,440 this fan base want? You're in the tournament makes 1122 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,120 every. Year it's one of those things 1123 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,800 where you do kind of debate. It's like if it's ending, like 1124 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,360 is it worth? You know, if you're like are you 1125 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,920 fighting to get in so you can play at a Tuesday? 1126 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,160 I don't know, it's a Tuesday game or a Wednesday game where 1127 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,200 you would be going up against I think the seven seed that's it's 1128 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,760 a it's an interesting scenario, especially since as we've seen, 1129 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,360 Indiana can be competitive in any individual game. 1130 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,520 They can play with almost anybody from a talent 1131 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:04,920 perspective if they put it all together. 1132 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,320 You can just turn down a Big 10 tournament invite. 1133 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:09,640 We're good. Please, we're good. 1134 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,640 We felt bad for Washington. Let them go. 1135 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,640 No, I know it's. Their first year, they. 1136 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,880 Get them a taste just cause kids from Washington anyway that'll 1137 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,720 we'll see what happens. Obviously the the other kind of 1138 00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:24,680 twist of the knife little one Indiana traveling to she can 1139 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,360 state on Tuesday where Tom Izzo will have the chance to break 1140 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,480 Bob Knight's all time Big Ten wins record against Indiana on I 1141 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,040 don't know if that's on national television or I refuse to call 1142 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,880 Peacock national television at this point, but yeah, so that's 1143 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,480 that's going to be a a tough one to watch. 1144 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,040 In Bloomington or maybe I I don't know, but it's it, it's 1145 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,040 going to happen. I mean, yeah. 1146 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:48,280 It's going to happen and deservedly so. 1147 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,400 The thing is, like, I mean, these records are are things 1148 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,040 that they're meant to be broken. And Izzos had a tremendous run 1149 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,080 of very consistent conference success. 1150 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,800 And look, so it's just it sucks that it happens now and with 1151 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,120 everything else and this whole identity crisis that IU 1152 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:06,600 basketball has been dealing with. 1153 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,600 Here's another thing. And it's only it's not that 1154 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,920 relevant, but I think and it's not really even a Bob Knight 1155 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,160 thing. It's just, well, the Indiana 1156 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,920 coach held the record for most conference wins as a coach, and 1157 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,480 now he's not going to. And now the Michigan State coach 1158 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,640 will hold it maybe forever because it's it is. 1159 00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,680 I mean, I guess technically Matt Painter could maybe catch up, 1160 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,560 but is he going to coach another 10 years, 15 years? 1161 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,320 I don't know. Well Galen, here's the thing, at 1162 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,920 least after that blow, then other twist the knife, we get to 1163 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,720 come home. Oh wait and get our ass kicked 1164 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,360 by our rival. Wow, we we do have that UCLA 1165 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,880 game in the middle. Maybe that'll be a sorry, I'm 1166 00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,880 sorry, a ray of sunshine. Anyway, yeah, all right, well, 1167 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,080 we're good and wrap up. Thanks for sticking with us 1168 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,120 folks, and thanks to those of you who came out to the upstairs 1169 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,000 pub this past Saturday. We will be back with more 1170 00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,720 Crimson cast coming up later on this week. 1171 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,880 We should have another football check in at some point soon. 1172 00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,920 And obviously we'll keep an eye on the basketball coaching 1173 00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:01,080 search. We'll have a lot of people on to 1174 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,760 talk about that. For Scott. 1175 00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,680 I'm Galen. We'll catch you folks. 1176 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,360 On the flip side. Bring back the Bison, stay never 1177 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,360 daunted, so on everybody.