You're listening to the back home network, presented by home
field apparel. Welcome back to Crimson cast
Galen klaviyo, Scott, Caulfield or Scott Caulfield on that side
of me. I forget where reverse here, but
hey, good to see you all. We're ready to bust out the live
equipment, as some seismic stuff happening with the Big Ten
Conference. And you know what Scott?
This is, this is one of those days that I think we thought
might be coming. We weren't sure.
We were getting concerned. A lot of stuff that happened.
That was if you're a big 10 fan was.
Able to be concerned about. And yet here we are as we head
into the new academic business year, which I think actually
plays a part in all of this and big tennis taken over Los
Angeles. Like it's a fascinating thing
that's happened. We're going to talk about all of
it. We're going to take your
questions and comments you can post questions and comments,
couple different ways. If you want them to show up
graphically on the show, go to the YouTube channel, which is
just my YouTube channel, you can just search Gail and klaviyo on
YouTube. You can find it there.
If you're listening to this afterwards, it's cool.
We love you. And we're happy that you're
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purchase. So Scott, first of all, we
weren't expecting the podcast today.
And in fact, it kind of felt like we were in our doldrums
period, like, for summer, like there's a little bit too going
on with IU, basketball IQ football signed a kicker today,
which is always big news, but about 1:00 this afternoon with
this weird tweet pops up. And it's like, well, USC and
UCLA are considering maybe joining the Big Ten and I'm
looking at this and I'm like, I've exchanging some some DMS
with likes to Jackson who lives out in LA and Hank glasner.
And we're Is this for real is this like a trial balloon or
they trying to fake people out to get better meteorites for the
Pac-12? And then within six hours, not
only is it been confirmed but the Big Ten Commissioners and
presidents have already voted them in.
You know, this is, it's like the biggest sneak attack that we've
seen in college sports in a while bigger than Texas and
Oklahoma because that one played out over a little bit longer
period. This one out of the blue, no
leaks, nothing and now suddenly We have USC and UCLA in the Big
Ten, not something anybody would have thought about potentially
happening over the course of the college sports like time,
period. So I guess let's get your
reactions. We haven't talked about this at
all. We exchanged one text message.
Your initial reaction was what? Well first off.
So I will its Crimson cast at dark.
So I'm doing Upland wheat. Hay, my NYX glass or I guess we
should say this is Crimson Catholic afternoon because it's
happy hour and La cuz only 6:30, that's right.
So I was I was out All thing with some friends.
Yeah, we saw the texts coming in.
I have a text chain with some friends were always kind of
busting chops and it's like, they're talking about it.
It's like I don't know if they're not reliable sources but
I'm like, is this for real? And then like between holes, I'm
kind of checking it then I'm just, like, I got to talk to
you. It's like, I gotta talk to Kayla
because like, if this is real, I kind of texted you like, hey
man, this is real, we should podcast.
You're like yes, it's real. We're podcasting, you know, my,
my feeling is this and I've been pretty up about this.
I'm stealing your Your point like you had a podcast about
realignment. I think a year ago about this
time and you were talking about kind of the idea of you know the
Big Ten needs to be more aggressive than passive in this.
You kind of went through all the iterations of things that could
happen. I latched onto that.
And anybody that I've talked to you since then, I've been very
proactive in this that like, look, we're at war with the SEC
and it felt like my fear was the big Tim was going to be passive
and that's what I didn't like about the kind of super secret
like Hey we're going to play more games, the Pac-12 and more
The ACC you're just kind of hey, we're going to have a kind of a
gentlemen's agreements, like we're not playing the
gentleman's game here. Like the SEC is trying to take
over the landscape. So from might, so I've been
saying that for, I've been saying for a while, they should
grab the Pac-12 and just rip the heart out.
They did it. Although, it sounds like USC and
UCLA came to the Big Ten, but who knows how it happened.
But yeah, it's funny. I will also say this, we after
golf we went to drinks with some friends and one of them was
asking like why do you think I'm Sam in a pod?
Cast something. Why do you think this is
happening? And I'm gonna, I don't know who
gets the attribute computation for this quote, torti Tony
Kornheiser uses it all the time on PTI, but the answer to all of
your questions is money. Like in the end, that's what it
comes down to, but no at a high level.
I think this is great. I have a list of questions here
for you. I want to know who we're going
after next. Like, I got a wish list.
This is like, it's like I love the NBA's like free agency for
the NBA. Now, it's like all right.
Like, who can the Pacers? Get a re Gonna Get, You Know,
DeAndre it. You're the big Ten's, a guy who
we gonna go for we go over Arizona, we go forward to
Stanley who's on the chopping block?
Who can we get? So no, I think this is great and
we can dig into it, why I believe that but I think this is
you have to were kind of in a grower die situation and I will,
I will stop at that. Have a lot of other thoughts to
talk about, but at a very high level, I'm thrilled.
I think it's really good for the Big Ten.
My only thought to is, I feel bad for Cal who's like, UCLA.
Like I thought we were I thought we had something here like we're
State schools. Like, come on man.
Are we friends anymore? We're actually, we're actually
part of the same University like we're just different branch
campuses. Yeah, I know.
There's, there's a lot of USC like that horror.
That girl you're leaving with her dad.
No, it's no, it's something else.
I mean, the so let's I think let's let's back up a little bit
and talk about how we got here. And I think this is informative
and if you listened for those of you who have, if you, if you
manage to get the first podcast, I did today in before, Listening
to this one. We need to talk.
I need to send you a t-shirt or something like that.
You're about to me because I haven't done it yet.
The point that I think is important to make is that you
see a lot of people complaining right now about the move.
You see a lot of people complaining about what they
would perceive as does not be in college sports, you know, and
there's a lot of focus on. Well, this doesn't make sense
from a geographical perspective. It doesn't make sense from a
rivalry perspective. It's not good for athletes.
In these various schools because now they have all this travel,
it doesn't make a lot of sense. I've seen a lot of people
complaining about, we'll gosh. Now we got to have like, USC
versus Rutgers is a conference game.
I mean, first of all, I get where you're coming from and I
don't want to undermine that from a perceptional standpoint,
but I think it's important to keep in mind that the era of
college sports, that you are thinking about is more
nostalgic. Now then reality and this is
nothing that the Big Ten started.
I mean, you know, some people would argue that this goes back
to like 1991 with Penn State joining the Big Ten, but even
that was a reaction to moves that happened in the previous
decade that were changing the financial and structural
realities of college sports. And so what we're seeing at this
point is essentially 30 or 40 years worth of change.
Jizz culminating in the spot that we're in right now where
this really got started. The current ERA was actually
about 2003 and that was when the ACC cut the heart out of the Big
East and rated Miami and Virginia Tech and, you know,
really changed the Dynamics of college sports.
At that point because what they did was essentially, they made
it about football and they made it a situation where you had to
grow into either better. Hands better, media markets,
better reach from a media perspective or you were going to
be relegated to obscurity. And so, since 2003 for literally
20 years now, we've seen moves and countermoves.
And we've seen the aggressive conferences, survive and put
themselves in better positions. What you're also seeing in this
situation, is a, you know, Brands like USC, especially USC
more so than UCLA being in a position, where your Shackled to
a conference that is dragging your National profile down.
And this is exactly what happened with Texas in the Big
12. I mean, Texas has itself to
blame for that to a large degree, Texas demanded, a huge
share of meteorites. They demanded all of these
different things and then what occurred was they essentially
weakened everybody else in the conference so much that it made
the Big Twelve, not a possibility anymore.
It's ironic because the Big 12 nearly lost Texas to the pac-10.
In the pac-10 was trying to expand back in 2010-2011.
So you almost saw all of this, be a completely different thing
is a real sliding doors situation that exists with all
of this. But what ends up happening is
that USC, who, you know, not 15 years ago was the preeminent
team in college football has watched their profile.
Their reputation. Get dragged down further and
further every year because of how inept the Pac-12 and its
leadership frankly have been in not just their Additive aspects,
but their media rights negotiations and how they've
reacted to the changing landscape of college sports.
And so, I understand the concerns about this not feeling
like, you know, the college sports, that a lot of people
grew up with, but it's the direction that things are going.
And if you're a big ten fan, if you're an Indiana fan, I think
this is something you have to really be supportive of in the
long term. You can be a little sore about
it and say this doesn't match my vision of what things should be.
But the way things are this is about the Best possible scenario
that the Big Ten could have asked for given the landscape
and where it is right now. So I think about it and I say to
myself, it's actually a win-win. It's a win for the Big Ten
because it puts them in the second, largest media Market in
the country. And they now own that market
like there's no other relevant teams in the Los Angeles market,
place. And those teams are going to be
playing Big Ten teams every week and it's a win for the LA
schools. Because, you know, you travel be
damned frankly. Like there's direct, there's a
direct flight. Right as Matt, laska put it in
our text or there's a direct flight from East Brunswick to
Los Angeles like the, you know, the they can, you can get very
easily from Newark to to La, like, the travel is not that big
of a deal. You're still, you're right now,
if you're L, if you're in l.a. school, you're flying to Oregon.
You're flying to Washington, you're not busing the Boulder,
Colorado. Like this was already happening.
Is there a big difference between a two-hour flight and a
four hour or five hour flight? I don't particularly think so in
the big scheme of things. So it's a win-win Both sides and
I think ultimately what we have to think about moving forward is
where does this leave us as the next move?
Because there's almost certainly going to be a next move.
Probably several next moves. How all this unfolds is going to
be really fascinating to watch. So go.
What other questions do you have?
I guess I want to get to the audience questions too.
But you you come first Scott before I get to the questions, I
will say this to people. You mentioned, you know, people
who may not like this residence. Feel like, you know, the way
they think of College athletics, I would say this that a, it's
like it's happening. So you kind of have to just
understand, it's a new reality. But I've been saying this for a
while, but today is a perfect day to use this kind of
counterfactual. Imagine if the news today was
different, imagine if the news was, hey, Ohio, State, Michigan,
and Penn State are all going to the Pac-12.
Like now that could have just imagined that is a reality.
Now is an Indiana fan, which everybody on the I'm assuming
90% is On the podcast are it's like we're kind of up up the
creek without a paddle so to speak.
Like that's not a good spot like your look, your lie.
Kansas has a much better basketball program than we do
and they're kind of stuck in The Ether and kind of like where we
going to go and Kansas at Kansas is staring down the barrel of
being Yukon. I mean apologize to our you
conference but it's like Kansas at this point might as well just
joined the Big East and make football go independent like
it's yes. Oh no.
Sorry. And like I mean just we're not a
football power. That's Different podcast we can
get to but you know, we're not the SEC.
It's like, we can't just pick up.
We're going to the SEC like we're hat.
We're lucky to be in the Big Ten.
We need to be in the conference is growing and that was my
biggest fear. Was that by standing still, you
were letting the possibility of either the SEC or the big
Easter, like some other conference is going to say, all
right, we're going to rip the heart of the Big Ten or they're
going to do it now. And now we're in a spot where
it's like, okay, it's pretty obvious, it's the SEC.
It's the Big Ten, like The two big dogs and good news.
We have a seat at the table like we are.
There we are eight where one of the fat.
So that's the counterfactual to say to everybody is, how would
you feel if three or four of the biggest teams, the Big Ten went
to the Pac-12 right now, today suddenly we'd be having a much
more despondent podcast where it's like, okay, but I mean we
could have Houston and we can play with you Louisville, like
you could get this kind of weird Conference USA.
So that's the other way to look at it.
Where Indiana sits, we need to be in the conference.
That's aggressive. Not the one that's being.
Being coached, it's it's like the old thing, you know, it's
like if a bear is chasing your group of friends, you don't have
to be the fastest, you just have to be faster than the slowest.
And in this case, I mean, the SEC might have some competitive
advantages still in football. I think they probably do.
I mean, they've got the most Talent, Rich States and football
are in the SEC but you're doing a lot better than the ACC and
the Big 12. Right now, if you're the Big Ten
and I do think that that's important as we move forward,
you know something. Questions.
Please go ahead. I was gonna say one thought
though is like in the Big Ten is had the very cool kind of Game
of Thrones type, intro of all the schools is going to be
funny. Now when they do like USC UCLA
and then just but 25 seconds across the country that will get
to Nebraska but they already do you have aiready do it?
Because they already started with the Rose Bowl graphic?
You know? It starts it starts in La so
it's great. All they have to do is drop the
logos of those schools and then have to change a thing about
that commercial. It's tremendous.
I have three questions is I want to get to my three.
Okay, so first one, what do you see as the next moves?
And who else is on your wish list as a big ten fan?
If the big Ten's going to go after somebody, So I think to
some degree that's going to depend on a couple of factors
and this is something I may actually say let's timeout.
And let's wait until the end of the podcast talk about because I
think right now the the chessboard moves are going to
depend on a couple of factors that largely have to do with
what makes the most sense financially.
And the thing is, the financial picture is very open and I think
it's unfortunate Formative for the audience to first, start off
and talk about what the financial picture really looks
like, and why this movie than happened in the first place from
that perspective. So for those of you don't keep
up with these things, money has gotten to a level in the last 15
to 20 years of college sports where it is far beyond what most
people think it is. Yes, I mean, it is it's like,
it's on a different level. It's on a professional sports
level, and I'm not just flippantly saying that, What
we're seeing we were already before this news.
There was talk in the industry about the Big Ten, being able to
sign the first billion dollar-plus, television deal
going into this next cycle, which is supposed to turn over
in 2024, what that means that number higher it does.
Well that and that's the point. And so, you know the point is
this, that right now, Big Ten schools bring in about 40
million dollars a year. Or maybe slightly more than that
in television Revenue alone and you know, and what that's
allowed. All the schools in the
conference to do is have a surplus of money compared to
most of the other schools that they're competing with outside
of the Big Ten. You know, for a while the Big
Ten was tracking a head of the SEC now they're kind of in the
same boat but we're seeing this trajectory with Big Ten money.
We're right now. It's a 40 million dollar to
about 20 million dollar difference with a Big Ten
school, Is an ACC school. So the acc's contract, which
goes through 2036 and we'll talk about that a little bit later.
Only guarantees each. ACC school about 20 million
dollars a year. Big Ten currently at 40 million
dollars a year. If they get this new deal, it's
going to be about a hundred million dollars.
A year per school, just off of Television rights.
That doesn't count ticket Revenue, it doesn't count
merchandise. It doesn't count donations.
The SEC is in the same stratum where they're earning about a
hundred million dollars. A year, or they will with the
projected new television deals. Now that they've jumped off the
the CBS contract, the Pac-12 last year, only distributed
about 20 million dollars per school off of their television
Revenue that is unsustainable if you want to be a major
conference and the problem is the ACC, the Big 12 and the
Pac-12 are essentially all in the same boat and the spread
that you're seeing from a financial perspective.
With the two big conferences, the big And the SEC.
It's going to essentially be almost two, completely different
sports. Are you in that top Echelon
versus, are you in that? Secondary Echelon this news as
you mentioned, suddenly makes the Big Ten television contract,
that much more attractive, because now you've added the Los
Angeles Market, you've added Southern California, and that's
worth a lot in terms of advertising Revenue, in terms of
different eyeballs. In terms of an entirely New
National fan base, and alumni base, which both USC.
And UCLA had UCLA because of graduates USC more because of
reputation and the fact that they've been one of the stalwart
Brands and college football for so long.
Go ahead just like jump in real quick.
Like I think it also allows you as you go into these
negotiations, if you're the Big Ten you ever was so freaked out,
the SEC, has all these big schools, which they do, but the
reason I was saying, we should do something like this and that
I like it, is that for two reasons, one you have the top
three media markets in New York, Chicago and l.a. are now all
under your purview in the 10. But I do think now, the Big Ten
can go to any of these media companies.
ESPN, NBC ABC, what, you know, Amazon Apple TV, whatever be
like, I'm being kind of flippantly but you know, hey,
the scc's cute. That's a regional area.
Like you now have the SEC locked in and it's like we are the
National College brand. We go time zone to time zone.
We can schedule from noon, to 10 p.m. and, you know, your, this
is your world. But I, you know, I do understand
that also like that, the media companies, look at this as Tent,
like they want Brands and content and can you fill time?
And now you can fill all the time zones and depending on
where they go with it, like you now can kind of land, lock the
SEC where it's like, that's cute.
That's really fun for the Eastern Time Zone, but we are
the National College sports brand.
And I do think it allows the Big Ten, much more flexibility in
how they promote and talk about themselves.
Yeah, no, you're right because, I mean, we've already seen there
was a tweet by John or an from Sports Business Journal earlier
tonight where he says, Well, now that USC and UCLA are in the Big
Ten, Apple has come back and said, Hey, Big Ten.
We'd really like to be part of the negotiations for this New
Media contract. I mean, there's you ad
inventory, you add a big market and now, suddenly, you've
created a scenario where you are a national brand, truly from a
college athletics perspective, and this is an advantage that
the Big Ten will have in the inevitable.
Big 10 versus SEC showdown in that.
Yes. The SEC has a lot of national
Brands, Alabama National brand, you know, Georgia rapidly
growing into a national brand. Texas has a national brand but
they're ultimately still schools where most of their alums are
Regional. Most of their focus is regional
and you know, the majority of their schools have Regional fan
bases, they just happen to be very, very good at a sport that
a lot of people care about now. What's interesting to me is the
Big Ten, still has to get over. The, the competitive imbalance
that they still have in football, but this helps to chip
away at the idea that a national advertisers, just going to
automatically gravitate towards the SEC.
Because as you said, if you can deliver the New York Market, the
Chicago Market, the Los Angeles market and a bunch of big alumni
bases that are in a bunch of different markets around the
country that is going to be attractive.
You've got all four time where he three of the four time zones
covered. You've got the three most
populous times guns covered, you know?
So you've got a lot of things going for you and I think
ultimately that's where you know, that's why I want to wait
on talking about next steps a little bit because you've got a
good thing right now and it's like will do you go ahead and
make your next move or do you wait to Checkmate, whatever the
SEC tries to do next? That's going to be the big
question mark. And I've got some thoughts on
that. What was your next question is?
Yes, they're both. I'll say them now but let's save
them for the any other questions are, you know, what does, who
does the SEC? Go after based on this?
Other questions who is this is I got to give it to my friend
Robert. We were talking, he he brought
sup to me. What happens to the Rose Bowl?
Like the Rose Bowl, was already kind of on Shaky Ground a little
bit, but it's like this kind of kills the Rose Bowl and the idea
it would be funny if next year. It's USC in the Rose Bowl.
That's kind of like, oh, it's already a pre Big, Ten all-big,
Ten Rose Bowl. And I also I'll just finish with
my last thought that this, if this does mean it's the end of
the Rose Bowl as we know it. You'll pack twins kind of like,
all right man we're done. Screw with you in the Big Ten,
it does. Does solidify what I've been
saying for years is that, you know, Indiana did have 70, 80
years to do it but it's like, by the time we get back to the Rose
Bowl, the Rose Bowl won't be the Rose Bowl anymore.
Like we're going to get there and it's like oh it's not really
what it used to be. There's a lot of parade.
It's like we had our shot. But anyway, so those are my two
questions but they are kind of focused in that same like what
happens next? Let's maybe some of the listener
questions. He get us over the hump to we
get to that very ending spot. So let's go.
Yeah, I know I mean, it's I do think it's very interesting
because ultimately, what you've got is the Rose Bowl is In the
way of so much, so much in terms of college football, whether
it's the, you know, a college football, playoff a college
football championship game, that's always been used as the,
the thing that's not allowing those things to happen.
I mean, even down to, we can't change the day of the playoff
game because the Rose Bowl has to be played at this particular
time in the afternoon because they want the sunset.
It is kind of funny that it's essentially in the process of
being drunk because the to local schools in Including one that
plays in the Rose Bowl for his home, games are piecing out of
the feet of the tack 12. But no, you know, overall I
obviously happy for I you to be in the Rose Bowl even if it's
just a meaningless like late September regular season Big 10
game. I'm great with that.
I will go to that game. I will pay freemium prices for
tickets. I'm totally down with it.
Anyway, let's get to some of the questions that folks have
because we're going to wind our way through some of those.
Some of them were asked earlier on Twitter and then we're going
to talk about some of the future.
Haitians of things. A lot of people in the comments
right now, I really do appreciate you folks joining us
couple of your Jennifer saying that escalated quickly.
It really did, you know? I and one of the things I
mentioned on Twitter, I think the most shocking thing to me
about all of this was how quiet it was.
I mean, to go from, no one said a word and then, in five hours,
they had been accepted. And there were, you know, fully
graphically outlined tweets with statements from Presidents and
athletic directors. In both conferences, talking
about this today would be the day weren't floats out.
That one's kind of like what and then, like, by tomorrow, or
Saturday, it's like, you can they Rush together?
A press conference? I go, yeah, yeah, this might be
happening. It's like, you're right, like
within three hours like this was not leaked, this is obviously
been discussions, this was going to happen, and you're right,
it's amazing that they didn't seem to be caught off guard.
It seemed like they were ready to go at 5:00 today to get it
done. It's clear and look, I do think
Timing thing is fascinating in my friend, Zack singer, who was
on the podcast with me earlier that you all should listen to
brought up a great point that I hadn't thought of before, which
I mentioned at the beginning, which is today's the last day of
the academic calendar, from a business perspective, academic
calendars from a financial perspective, go July 1st to June
30th and so they essentially waited.
Now this with this was not thought of and consummated in a
day and whether this was something that started cooking
back in November Or December. Whether this was something that
started cooking around the time. Lincoln Riley got hired, whether
this was something that got cooked up during cosita, which
was last week, you know, whatever it was, there was a lot
of advanced planning in terms of the timing.
Because by doing it, now, you basically set yourself up so
that they can. Those two schools can leave in a
couple of years, can join the Big Ten and you can put
everything in motion. You can get contracts signed or
changed or do whatever you need. And it only essentially affects
to business Cycles from this point.
Forward rather than all those contracts being signed and moved
forward after this date. How soon is like 2024.
It's like you started thinking like oh that's like two seasons.
Yeah, like that's that's like very very soon.
Yeah. But I mean, it's going to be an
awkward next couple of years for almost every conference in
college sports because you're going to have Texas and Oklahoma
who are on their way out of the Big 12.
You've got all these schools coming out of the American or
out of Conference USA, that are going to the big 12 and it's
just like, wow, there's gonna be a lot of unhappy The meetings of
schools, as you see people leaving and coming.
It's gonna be really fascinating.
I will say if you're like, Kevin Warren, this is the time, you
can call wound be like, say like he'd be like, hey, everybody.
Took Big Ten logo off your jersey like, hey, I'm not have
been around. Like, if you wanna take that
back, like, can I get a think an apology card?
Because we're making deals here like these are happening
quickly. I will say, and look, we talked
about realignment on the podcast around the texas-oklahoma news
and we were pretty critical of Kevin Warren and the Big Ten
General for a lack of action. And, you know, we talked about
on that podcast. This idea that the Big Ten needs
to go big or go home. They need to make a play for the
Los Angeles schools and they didn't seem like it was
happening. It seemed like the, the Big Ten
was like, I guess we'll take Kansas because they're available
and they didn't do that. They've, they really did.
And whether I mean, whether you believe the the reports that
have been put out there that it was the to La schools that
approach the Big Ten and said we'd really like to To come and
the big time was like we're not going to turn that down or
whether it was actually you know, negotiated a lot more
behind the scenes. I think Warren deserves.
A lot of credit for keeping it, quiet, making it happen and
putting the conference in a much better position from a business
perspective than it was 24 hours ago.
So we, you know, All Is Forgiven commissioner war and I guess,
but it's like it's just you have to give him credit.
Who knows how it started again? Like I don't think USC UCLA
reach Unless they feel like you're going to have
reciprocation there, but you just have to give credit with
just how smoothie you had a two hour cycle where it's like, hey,
it's happening and then hey, it happened versus you're right the
Oklahoma SEC thing, Oklahoma Texas to the SEC, took a couple
days, it was kind of dirty and people to think it got kind of,
you know, contentious and it was very good that you saw.
It's like this is, it's almost too quick to even be contentious
like, oh, it already happened like yeah, nobody even has to
now. People are just trying to figure
out what's going on. So, yeah, so, A couple things we
wanted to get to Adam Cabe posted and we're not
intentionally competing with our brethren in the back home
network. But assembly call is doing
something called radio live tonight because it is Thursday.
But no, I mean it's a big news night and I think there's plenty
of audience to go around but Ryan Phillips who of course is
Big USC guy and is not taken the news.
Well, I would say, at least from reading his Twitter feed today.
So Adam says, Ryan on the assembly called podcast.
A moment ago, says he expects that since football was the
driving force behind these moves, its Likely that in five
to eight years, the top football teams all bail and leave schools
like IU behind. Do you guys share that theory
example superpower conference for football, possibly separate
from the NCAA entirely. Here's the thing.
I mean that it certainly is possible that that could occur
but I, you know, I think the the one thing to keep in mind is
that it's the college is weird College athletics.
It's the way that universities interact with each other is very
strange. And in some cases, you're right.
Like, the, you know, the like UCLA and USC are looking around
and saying, well, football is the most important thing we're
going to leave. I don't at this point.
I think five to eight years is probably too short term of a
time period. I don't see a situation where
you're just going to see all of the top football, schools,
leave, and go somewhere else. And here's why top football
schools. Love money and they hate losing
and having 120fps schools filtering.
All of the money is too many but having 20 might not be enough
because you do need a geographical spread.
You do need a spread of, you know, ability and talent and
functioning capacity in terms of some of these programs.
So, you know, if you stick, let's say you had a conference
Prince, that was just the top ten schools, like, let's just
hypothetically, say, you're like Oklahoma, like Oklahoma, Texas,
USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Florida, State and Miami.
I Maria or whoever. They are those 10 schools in a
conference. You know, who's not going to be
happy. The team that finishes with the
losing record in that conference, which is going to be
half of them because they all have to play each other.
Every year, you're always going to have to have some cannon
fodder. I mean even the NFL Has, you
know, 32 teams. And some of them suck every year
like the Lions, some of them are, you know, good most years
but you you're going to have that flexibility.
And I think that ultimately, most of these schools realize
that and they realize that you're not going to be able to
survive just having the strong play the strong, the Premier
League in England's. A great example of this like
yes, you've got your top six or seven.
But that's not enough. You have to have 20 teams and
some of those teams are going to have to be naturally were Worse
than the other teams so I think as long as you're in the Big Ten
or the SEC, they're not going to ask you to leave because there's
a lot of contractual stuff that has been tied up in the
creation. Not just of those conferences,
but of their television deals that make it very difficult to
remove somebody. I mean, what was the last school
that was kicked out of a conference?
There, haven't been many of those instances that have
happened over the course of time because there's ultimately, a
solid base that you Have to work with in every conference and
sometimes that means you're going to have.
I mean, it's why Vanderbilt's in the SEC.
It's why Northwestern and Indiana have been in the Big
Ten. It's why Duke at least in
football is in the ACC there is an understanding ultimately that
you're going to have to have a top-to-bottom that isn't
necessarily all top because that pushes some of the top to the
bottom if you do. I hope that makes some sense.
So I don't share that theory. I understand where Ryan's coming
from and who knows, we'll check back in 10 years and he might be
right. And I Will apologize if that's
the case. But I don't see that
organizational thing occurring at this stage.
I agree with a lot of what you said.
I will say this that I think we're barreling toward your 220
team car. I think the Big Ten and the SEC
will be 220 team conferences and when you look at kind of who was
already in there and who might be pulled in, you're gonna kind
of have that already with, you know, that's going to be, you
know, 40 teams that are kind of the creme of the creme already.
I would also say, you know, as you mentioned earlier, about the
money thing, you know, I'll just use Indiana's.
Our example like we're in the right spot.
We're going to be getting that money.
Money. And so if you even just say over
the next eight to ten years, just on the fact that we're
going to have an extra 30 million a year versus like Utah,
you know, we're just going to get better because we're going
to have better facilities, better and ild like we're just
going to be better than the teams that are left behind.
And so in eight to ten years, there may not be teams that are
better than Indiana. Just based on the fact that
we've had way more resources than they have.
And so the we're part of that cream Rising anyway.
And I agree with you like it's not just the schools the coaches
like coach. Is love to have winning seasons.
That's a lot of reason why there's so many bowls coaches
love to talk about. I went to a bowl like, you know,
Ohio State, they don't want to go like you said they don't want
to go five and seven their coach sure as hell doesn't want to do
that. And so you have to have some
teams you'll beat up on but I think you know but yes.
So I agree with a lot of what you said, you know we've been an
Institutional member. I feel safe that the team that
kind of the one school that I look at that one.
The like the ultimate game of you know, Musical Chairs is
Rutgers. It's like they just they came in
at the perfect time in the perfect spot, and it's like,
they probably won't get kicked out.
They probably don't deserve to be there, but they're the ones
where it's like, they just, they won the, the musical seat
lottery. I escaped, I was talking about
this with mad Zimmerman earlier. It's either Rutgers or Mizzou
like I think those are your two options, you know, Mizzou got to
join the SEC. And that's not a school.
You think about, when you think about Southeastern Conference
and then Rutgers, obviously I would, I think Maryland might be
the better choice because Well, and not only got into the Big
Ten, but got to wipe like 40 million dollars of debt off of
their books by joining the Big Ten.
And now, the rest of the ACC is looking around being like wait
Maryland's, making literally double the amount of money that
we're making. So, Nathan asks, and this
actually ties in with something that you just said what's the
new revenue from the TV deal going to be able to do for I you
specifically Athletics, would it be improved facilities?
What? You know where would that go?
So I think it's important to keep in mind.
The revenue growth IU in a in 2005 had an Athletics budget,
that was a little shy of 50 million dollars.
I think it was about that. Right now, I use athletic
budget. I think, is about 115, 120
million. I might be a little bit off.
I'm not sure what covid do. But that, you know, you've
already seen essentially an increase of more than double of
what Indiana was making and that was under the current television
deals. Are you making a hundred million
dollars a year strictly off of Television revenue of
meteorites? I mean, it has in the entire
Stadium. That's right.
Yeah. Just I mean the the interesting
thing about IUI I think it really helps on the coaching
front and the ni L front because ultimately it's, it does two
things on the ni L front, it allows it makes it keeps.
I you relevant playing relevant schools and maybe it gets alums
particularly on the football side.
More excited about giving money to a program that yes is
downtrodden relatively speaking is the losing his program in
college football historically. But there's a lot of growth
there. And now you're going to have
Have a great system where that you were talking about how
they're getting so much money for my TV deal or else.
Well key about how they need to get boosters to give them money
well and it's a great deal. Here's the thing and this isn't
a direct on IL thing because the money isn't going to n IL.
But what it does do is it allows I you to improve its facilities
by adding Boutique, sorts of things that can attract donors
who can then be turned around and put into ni L collectives or
be convinced to provide money to athletes that want a Really come
to IU. I do think that that's a very
important thing straight up facilities.
I mean, look, I use facilities are actually pretty good.
All things considered, like, obviously I you needs a new
practice facility for football? It does.
I mean, it's just, that's an unavoidable reality and that has
to get done. And I would hope that that's the
first thing that the new money comes in and provides.
But, you know, if you look around, you've got a brand new,
baseball stadium. You've got a brand new softball
stadium. You've got a renovated, soccer
stadium, you've got a renovated. A basketball stadium.
You have a practice facility for basketball.
You have a double, A twice renovated, football facility.
You've, you kind of maxed out? I mean, if you wanted to look
at, okay, do we finally build a brand new basketball arena?
Maybe that's maybe that's the next step.
I don't think it's going to happen in the next ten years,
but I hear you Galen loud and clear a hundred million dollar
marketing, budget, you bring back the Bison.
Well, there you go, that's Loadout, gold hoard.
That's just, let's bring back three million, I'm bringing back
the vice, I love that idea. But I think really where this
really helps is in coaching because you're going to have to
pay top dollar to get coaches. And this allows you to do that
without having to dip into different types of funds.
You know, it gives you a lot of flexibility there that you
wouldn't have before and it puts you ahead of a bunch of other
schools that are currently ahead of you.
You know, we talked I was I went back and listened to our
postseason podcast for football and you know, we talked about
how like the offensive coordinator for Western
Kentucky, went to. Texas Tech because that's a
better more attractive school to go coach football at well.
Now if you're I you you have the ability to say, well, okay, yes
you've got perhaps better athletes there, but we've got an
extra million dollars sitting here.
If you'd like to come coach at IU instead and I do think that
that ultimately is going to be a big factor, you know.
This is one of those things where the money is like so
stupid. That it's almost hard to know
what you would spend it on. It's like winning the lottery.
It's like, well, I'm going to buy a car and a Austin have
still got 97 million left. Now, what do I do and this is
where you end up, you know, in a gutter in Vegas, like six years
later having lost everything. I don't think it's gonna happen
two years that have to practice as well, right?
Yeah, no, it's like, well, my point is more.
It's hard to think about what you do at this point with the
amount of money because you're essentially more than doubling
the media Revenue that you've got coming in and look at
letting departments their job is to spend money.
They're not meant to be profit centers.
They're meant to be Essentially Revenue neutral or running a
slight deficit so that everybody can claim that everybody loses
money in college sports, but that's ultimately, it's a
game-changer for I you should happen where it's like every
every assistant coach should have been, I you should be able
to out pay for any assistant versus any school that isn't a
big ten or an SEC school movie for.
So if it's like, if you know, Kansas looking to hire a new
offensive coordinator, I used to go to come in, you know,
over-the-top style and just be like, hey we can throw an extra
five hundred thousand on there. Yeah, it's Going to be the wow,
got Vegas throwing money around. Yeah they should be like that.
That's like, that's where I'm going to be frustrated.
If I use suddenly continues to be like, well, we gotta, we
gotta pinch our pennies like know well.
Said, you won the lottery start throwing money.
It's and look. And and again compared to the
rest of the Big Ten compared to the SEC IU is probably going to
struggle in sports, like football, I'm saying, but
everybody else everybody else. You're in better shape than and
you would much. Rather be in that position.
I'd like to thank Matt Blasco because he did point out of
school. They got kicked out of a major
conference and that of course was Temple.
And it's interesting because Temple got kicked out because of
poor attendance and failing to meet Financial Obligations.
Neither of which really I use in any trouble of doing.
I mean I use football attendance is it's pretty good.
Yes. It's much lower than most of the
other schools in the conference but for the size of the stadium,
it's pretty good. And you compare it to, you know,
a lot of other schools in NCAA football right now you're doing
okay. Yeah.
Just just be Head of the used. You don't be the slowest.
You're ahead of Rucker's, you're ahead of Northwestern.
Yeah, you're ahead of him in those categories.
Let's go back. Let's ask some other questions.
So Tyler Keys asks USC and UCLA have to now ask for a couple
more Western schools, right? Scheduling just seems tough to
figure out we're going to tackle this a little bit more later.
I do think it's interesting because in football and even in
Bassam like men's and women's basketball, I don't think this
is that big of a deal. Yes, it's a long flight.
But I mean, again, it, I just flew literally two days ago.
Go from Los Angeles, back to Indianapolis.
My secret mission was successful.
You're welcome Big Ten. I got that.
I got both of them before. I got got it done but I did that
flight from LA to Indianapolis it's three hours and 55 minutes
in the air. It's not that bad.
And so I don't think that's a big issue.
I am really interested to see what happens with the
non-revenue sports the Olympic sports in the way that those
schedule. Now, that's what I says, I feel
bad for, like, the water polo teams worth like, hey, you're
going Rutgers to you UCLA back. Yes to Nebraska but like but
water polo. Does that already Indiana?
Is not in the Big Ten. Indiana is in a conference
that's full of California schools in water polo so that
it's a great point but it's like it's the one example that
doesn't work but like you know and even something like baseball
as Zack mention on the previous podcast.
Guess what? Instead of having to go and play
like Series in Florida and Louisiana in February, the Big
Ten can just send all of their schools to Los Angeles and Play
series in February, you know, they've got, they might have
that kind of figured out. Because now they've got a warm
weather spot, where they can reliably go play some games.
So that's nice. But it is going to be
interesting as we move forward, how some of the non-revenue
sports interact. It's great for some of the
non-revenue leagues. I mean, you know, the Big Ten
being able to add UCLA to the men's soccer.
That's my mean, my God, that's tremendous, that's an awesome
thing to see. Obviously for baseball, it's a
big effect. And there's several other
sports. Get impacted as well.
Now Tyler's question about do we see more Western schools?
That is something that's going to be interesting because I do
Wonder like you can fly out of La easily.
And if you're flying to like Illinois or you're flying to
Iowa, it's not that much different than right now.
Flying to Pullman or Corvallis. In fact, it might be a little
bit simpler in the case Illinois because you're flying into
Chicago. I think probably directly rather
than flying into some random Regional Airport.
Port, but I do think that some West Coast Conference schools or
some Pac-12 Conference schools are still in play at this point.
It's just going to depend on what move the Big Ten wants to
make and so we'll come back to that in just a second.
A couple of the comments that I wanted to get to question wise
scrolling through here, we had another Indiana was always the
southernmost School in the Big Ten.
We lose that so, you know. Yeah.
All right, P, Brian Madden. Best soccer conference, in the
country. Yes, you know.
Now, Matt asked the question, how dumb do these leagues?
Look for not accepting the playoff top, six conference
winners were Autos with top for having buys now, no way how that
happens. And I do think that, that's a
really interesting point, like the move that was afoot to try
and expand the playoff ultimately got blocked and
what's fascinating, is yes, the Big Ten was part of the block
along with the Pac-12 in the ACC and it's a great example and I
again we Don't know how this exactly happened, did the Big
Ten, like, did they shank the Pac-12 in the back on purpose or
was this one of those opportunities things with?
It's like, well, we hate burning our business partner, who's been
running with us for 100-plus years, but we just had to do
what we had to do. I'd love to at some point here,
the unvarnished story of what all happened with that, but it
is interesting to think about, if that gets accepted, it
becomes a lot less necessary for USC and UCLA to say, hey, we're
going to leave now. Maybe not entirely unnecessary.
Sorry, but all the measures that could have been taken to try to
equal out, the television money, make a distribute, a little bit
more evenly were opposed at various times by the
conference's that are now in the biggest danger of not existing
anymore. And I do think that that's going
to be fascinating to watch as further moves, get made because
right now, if I'm the Big Ten, I'm looking at this.
And I'm like, yeah, you know, really that expansion thing that
wasn't a great idea. Like what if the playoff just
ended up being us? The SEC, you know, sending our
best team and maybe the playoff is like the best two teams from
each conference playing each other for the right to play in
the title game. That becomes a lot more
attractive. And now it's like, well, why
stop at 16? If you're either conference?
Because if that's the game, now you put yourself in a position
where you're almost running two separate.
Professional leagues. That happen to have a
championship game between the winners of each.
It's almost like how baseball essentially is pre enter
conference play or pre interleague play.
It's like you have the American League, which I guess, in this
case would be the the SEC, you have the national league, which
is the Big Ten and they the winner plays in the World
Series. You know, that's, that's the
kind of thing. You might see happening as we
move forward, and that'll be interesting to see if that's how
it ultimately unfolds. Yeah.
The football thing, never the part about the never made sense
is you had at the time of the BCS when we started getting
figured out, it's like you had the Pac-12, the Big Ten, the
SEC, the Big 12 in the ACC five conferences.
Aside to have four schools in the final game and it's like,
you guys realize you set up a situation where one of you is
not in it every year possibly two of you because the FCC is
really good. Like there's not been a lot of
thought to this process by the conference's from the whole
gecko because if I was in that room I'd be like hey there's
five of us here, let's make it a 16 playoff like why are we
automatically jobbing one of us but yeah, it's it's interesting.
How is it something you said, And you know, this is kind of
what happens when there's not a principle in the NCAA, is kind
of advocated its Throne. It's like when there's not a
principle in the room, was not a teacher in the room, the
students are kind of at some point or like, hey, why are we
doing? Let's figure out a plan that
works for us. This is kind of what's happened
is the school's, the copper. It's gotta be like hey we're and
it's like it's funny because like nowhere has I heard anybody
where it's like, what is the NCAA saying about this?
Like yeah they're not saying anything.
Well no they can't do anything well and ultimately I mean if
this is a football driven thing and And as we've talked about
many times on this podcast, football is not governed by the
NCAA, it's governed by the conference's.
Now, you know what's interesting here is, there's internecine
conflict between the conferences over this, but ultimately, what
you're getting out of it is a new world order of college
sports, and it also will include other sports besides just
football. And so, yeah, it's a really
fascinating thing to watch. I mean, the NCAA couldn't have
done a whole lot because they were never Be able to insert
themselves between the schools and their money when it came to
football. And that's really what's driving
the television contracts. But it is, it does make you
wonder like if college sports had ever just said to
themselves. You know, what we need is our.
We need someone who's in charge of things who can cut through
the crap and can set a chart, it chart.
A course that's like in the best interest of the sport, maybe
we're in a different world than we are now.
But, look, this is, this is not again, if you read, there's a,
there's a great book called The Club.
Which is about the formation of the English Premier League and
there's a lot of parallels in terms of a group of Rich owners
gets together and says, why are we subjecting ourselves to the
rules of a body? That doesn't really understand
the business model of the 21st century that were rapidly
approaching, this was in the early 1990s.
And that's essentially what's happening with college sports
where these two conferences have decided that they're tired of
letting other people. Hold the steering wheel.
It's like it's time to grab. Steering wheel and steer in the
direction and it's been interesting watching the chess
moves, but at the end of the day, the SEC in the Big Ten
while they're in competition with each other, their kind of
helping each other out because I think they both realize that
they are ultimately going to be the last people standing and as
long as they're both standing there, fine with that.
You know. And that's going to be the
interesting thing. Some other comments here that I
wanted to get to. So Adam who's been a quote
machine in the comments here in terms of recruiting, this is
from Mike Cronin the UCLA basketball coach in terms of
recruiting UCLA is a worldwide brand and joining the Big Ten
which now is a Coast-to-Coast Powerhouse could make us more
attractive to recruits in the Midwest and East Coast it
follows up with does this actually pull recruits from the
Midwest out to UCLA though? I feel like no I think in
basketball probably not and it's interesting because you know,
you can I think those recruits that they were going to go to
UCLA, we're going to go anyway, like I just don't know.
Elite recruits are that locked in geographically?
In most cases. I think they're going to go
where they feel comfortable. It does make it so that your
brand is more visible, so that might have some impact.
Now, the other, the response that Patrick had on this that I
think is interesting, you know, it's basketball is kind of
national recruiting if you're UCLA but for football it could
pull for recruits out of the Midwest and make them think
about going to UCLA or USC. And I think that's a really
interesting thing because one of the big problems that you have,
if you're A UCLA or USC is that your talent pools kind of fin in
California? Like there's a lot of good
players but there's not a lot of great players and we're seeing
participation levels recede so that the great players that are
in the LA area aren't necessarily staying at USC and
UCLA. And there's not a lot of
natural, recruiting grounds outside of that.
Now, you plug yourself into Pennsylvania and Ohio, and
Michigan. And, and now you're in places
where football really still matters.
Maybe not as much. And maybe not at high enough
levels is say a Florida or Louisiana, or a South Carolina,
but you're you're now recruiting and more fertile ground, and I
do think that, that could have a positive impact.
So, it again, it ends up being kind of a win-win overall for
both sides because it, it allows you to keep more recruits in the
big tent footprint. Theoretically, if you're the Big
Ten and it allows you if you're USC and UCLA to recruit that and
you probably would have not done that before because it would not
would have been worth your time. So that's I look at it from the
other perspective for Big Ten schools is I listened to a pot,
a couple months ago on Ryan rasila Show, just talking about
the Lincoln Riley hiring and basically that, you know, he was
going to go back to the Pete, Carroll days.
And I know it's a little bit different, but when Pete Carroll
was there, his thing to the recruiters was like, if you're
getting on the plane, you're doing it wrong, like, Southern.
California, is where we're going to recruit.
And for the most part, they focus like within a 40-mile
radius. And, you know, there's, I would
push back a little bit, a lot of elite level talent in that
Southern California area, if you get Right and I it does feel
like licking Riley is going to turn around USC, very quickly.
And what it might do as might help plug some of us Midwest
schools into some of that Talent there we can pull a little bit
out of that so I think to your point, it could be a win-win.
But I look at it from the reverse of, maybe we could get
some inroads into the Southern California area where it's like,
hey, you know, I know the weather's 75 all the time.
And, but, you know, maybe thinking, long-term manual home
values are great, and Indiana, you know, I know it's cold.
It's not yet. Well, Patrick is on the same
boat with you. I don't know how many Indiana, I
mean, we've gotten some great folks, out of California that
have come to Indiana. Mandeville, let's go.
I mean, Really I can do for you. Please go for the guy, but
that's the guy that you pulled Richard.
Mandeville, like, not, not Joe Hillman not Dean Garrett.
You went with Richard Mandeville, I mean, my God, man.
Anyway, that's what Nate said. Felled is a California guy here.
Quite, you know, I mean, T's million, Richard.
Mandeville, I've gotten red-faced over, this Scott, this
is crazy anyway. Anyway, let's let's dive into
the thing. Everybody's been asking about,
we had a question earlier on from like, this is obviously
because they canceled, the crossroad, classic completely
everything gets out. We can now play the UCLA USC
games. Like the crossroad classic was
holding all of this, right? And now, produce playing, like
Akron or somebody who are, they, who do they Some kind of Indian.
Deanna to go and it's like it didn't work.
I did that for 10 years like 95 I know Purdue fans hate this but
it's like 85% of the crowd was I you fans like sorry you guys.
You've been a better program for 20 years, not going to deny it.
You don't have a fan base sorry you don't it's true.
It's always been true. It's the dirty secret that they
don't want you to know about. Anyway, Jennifer asked what
happens to Notre Dame. Tyler throws up Oregon
Washington Notre. Dame North Carolina.
There were a couple of others that we had in the chat that
through so Matt asked what are the big Brands left in ordered a
Morrigan? Clemson Florida State Miami.
This is what everybody's talking about.
One joke real quick. All right there for real.
Just an absolute ball or like this is like this is pro
wrestling move again, just for fun.
It's like Kevin Ward's. Like Hey we're announcing we got
Texas, right? I know these are mine.
Yeah, Oklahoma, that we're getting our West.
Like we're getting there. I'm the Big Ten.
I'd I think that ship has sailed, but I think it is funny
that you say that because it's fascinating to think about.
No. But I mean, the big question
that everybody's been asking is what we go for.
What is the SEC? What's next?
For the Big Ten.
What's next for the SEC? I mean there was a tweet about
the, you know, the Big Ten may not be done.
And I forget who it was that tweeted that out, but I just saw
somebody say to again. This is now, like you got to
know it's real or not but somebody said like all other
pac-10 schools is said like no one else.
Leaving the, who knows, if that's real or not, right?
But I've seen that a couple places to yeah.
So you know, this is gonna be one of those interesting things
because yes, I'm sure all the Pac-12 schools like.
Well, of course not, we would never leave what, you know,
we're locked it and then that, that's what, you know, what was
forget. It was, I think it was Virginia
Tech that went like, they got all indignant because Miami was
going to leave the Big East and go to the ACC.
I, well, we were, you know, how dishonorable that out of that.
And then then the ACC it was like, well, hey Virginia.
We'd like to invite you to, and then, like, two days later, they
were like, well, we're going to join the ACC.
I think there's no, there's no honor in any of this.
It's just about jockeying for position and trying to.
It's like, it's like we would never do that.
It's like, wait, the check, says, what exactly was Heroes
like, oh, it's it's all about, can you drive up your the value
that you're bringing? And so there's a few interesting
directions that this could go and and I do not know what the
answer is. I think it's going to be
interesting. The flight.
Where's your next vacation? That's right.
Well South Bend sounds lovely. This time of year.
No The Watch Right. That's right.
I'm just Southwest I'm on. I'm on the Kevin Warren revenge
tour that's that's now. But you know so like Iraq TV
says, I know that football is the moneymaker of basketballs a
second. Biggest go get UNC and Duke is
the ACC falls apart and dominates the basketball Market.
There was a tweet that are a message.
We just got from Ryan Madden. The AC schools would be great
but they're pretty locked into that TV contract for another
decade. Plus now here's, here's the
things that I think Important. Then that was debating about
this with Zach. Osterman earlier who were will
probably have on sometime this weekend to talk about this
because acts very well-versed in all these things.
There's a there's two competing theories right now about what
you should do in college sports Theory a and this I'd say is
probably the predominant Theory and probably to if I'm being
honest the one that most college administrators are going to
adhere to which is we're not going to add schools unless They
add significant financial value. This is always the, why Kansas
was a red herring in terms of Big Ten expansion because Kansas
added, literally nothing that the Big Ten didn't already have
and would have taken money off the table because you would have
had to have split the pie, more for a team, that wouldn't have
brought any extra Revenue in or very little extra revenue.
And as much as people like basketball, I like basketball
too. It just doesn't move the needle
as much the ratings aren't there compared to.
All and that really is ultimately what drives so much
of the revenue that comes out of this.
But there's an alternate Theory which is that the money is going
to be there. Like, when, when the original
Big Ten expansion happened, I'm not talking about the Penn State
one, but when they brought in, you know, Nebraska Rutgers and
Maryland in like that four-year span or whatever it was three
years ago, the Big Ten was generating.
I think at that point about 10 to 15 million dollars per Per
year in television Revenue, which was a decent amount of
money. It was among the top in the
country at that point, you know, then the, the next round of
negotiations happen, and suddenly the big Ten's bringing
in about 40 million 35 to 40 million dollars a year in
Revenue, no one in either case said, you know what, by 2024,
we're going to see a hundred million dollars a year per
School per year in television revenue, and the reason why that
number keeps growing is, Twofold one.
There are so few bankable things in Television right now in terms
of getting live audience and live audiences key.
I mean, do you people when you DVR things or when you watch
things on, TiVo you sitting there and voluntarily watching
the commercials, I don't think so, are you doing it during
football games and basketball games?
You probably are because you can't really Escape it at that
point live sports, whether it's the NFL, whether it's college
football. It has an a, an appeal for
advertisers because a, it's live And B, it's a situation where
you are going to constantly have people watching it.
That are really into the school's, really into what
they're seeing and you don't get that with other sorts of
entertainment programming. So, I don't think that you're
going to see a situation where the numbers are going to go
down, and if you want to continue to grow the pie, if you
pick strategically, who you want to bring into your conference,
you put yourself in a position where Yes, you might have a
short-term slight decrease in the amount of money that's being
paid out. But if you're a Big, Ten school,
you're already going to go from 40 million to 100 million.
I mean, if you go from 40 million to 90 million with the
idea that if you add say Washington, who has the Seattle
market and Oregon, that's a national brand or you add Notre
Dame, who's a national brand and you add North Carolina, who's a
national brand, maybe not as much in football, but they're
not, you know, they're not, you know, hard done by their the
first time, the meteorites get negotiated, can you up at even
more? Because you've got this more
attracted, sweet of teams that you can now distribute on five
tiers of media, rather than three or four like it currently
is. And that's that's going to be
what I'm really interested in seeing because ultimately I
don't know what the solution is. I don't think the Big Ten is
done, but I do think they're going to be judicious in what
they decide to do. Now, the scenarios that I would
say, play out are as follows, you could see the Big Ten, look
at the Pac-12 and Well, what are the most attractive remaining
schools there? Who would we want to bring in?
Who would really bring something to the table?
Washington? To me, is the most logical next
one because they are in a big market, and they own that
market. The one thing that might keep
them from doing that is the Washington State Legislature
might be. Like, there's no way you're
taking Washington without also taking Washington state in the
Big. Ten will be like by, we're not
doing that same thing with Oregon and Oregon State because
those are two pretty closely tied programs.
You do have the other two California schools and they both
have I'm level of attraction, you know, cow is not really a
great brand right now, but you know them and Stanford combined
are in the Bay Area, which is another huge markets, fifth
largest television market in the country.
Stanford would be a tremendous feather.
In the cap of the Big Ten from an academic perspective.
I mean if you could add them and be I mean that's that is the
dream of a lot of these presidents to be able to partner
with Stanford, a lot of things. So I would not rule that out.
I think any other school in the Pac-12 is We announced starter
like you're not going to see the now, Arizona is a nonentity.
I mean they really are there like football wise.
They're just not that important and they don't have that big of
a fan base. They don't really have a
recruiting base. They bring very little to the
table. Arizona, State brings more to
the table from a market perspective, but the problem is
no one really cares about Arizona State athletics.
I mean, you know, it's just an incidental thing.
I mean, there's a small number of people that care about it,
but it doesn't move the needle in recruiting.
It doesn't move the needle in terms.
Of, you know, revenue or meteorites.
And, you know, you look at one friend of the year, one friend
in the group is just a complete party animal.
Like having at least, we got Arizona State though.
Like, I mean, does joke, aside does bring you the Phoenix
Market, which is a massively growing Market.
But you're right. It would be like having that one
drunk friend just like. Yeah.
They're you know. Yeah, they're fun to hang out
with, right? Don't want to do.
Don't want to do too many nights with so they can't stay at my
house. So anyway, I, you know, I think
ultimately, I would be surprised if the big Ten's Add any more
West Coast Schools and it going back to the comment from earlier
about does the big, you know, do USC and UCLA?
Do they ask for that? I honestly think if you read
closely The whole setup that in the statements, that have been
made today guy would go read those closely because something
that pops up, really? I think prominently in the UCLA
statement in the u.s. C statement.
Both is the idea that we are going to have more attractive
start times for games. You know, what was really
irksome to both use USC and UCLA and really the whole pack
twelve, but I think those programs especially was that
they were stuck playing in the 10:00 or 11:00.
In time window and they don't want that.
And I think they're perfectly fine with playing a noon game on
the Pacific coast or 3:30 game in the Pacific time zone.
Even a 7:00 or maybe no send a card game but A330 game.
I mean that's that's a prime-time game in the Eastern
Time Zone. That's I think ultimately what
they're after and I think that they would be willing to trade
not having a travel partner or two on the west coast in
exchange for having better kick times for football games in
particular. So that That might negate the
need to bring in schools that don't bring a whole lot to the
table. From a financial perspective
that so it'll be interesting to see the the second thing and the
big one and Jennifer mentioned earlier is Notre Dame.
Adam Rittenberg had a an interesting anonymous quote,
from a source, basically saying, you know, the Nord in
perspective, it's the independently.
It's becoming untenable to be an independent and that's not
really right? And in order to are near deal
with NBC, is going to bring them.
Ask then like what? Indiana will get from a big 10
TV deal? Right setup.
Can I just I'll jump in real quick for you to the Notre Dame
thing. Like I'm interested in your
thoughts on it because on one hand like when you looking at a
map right now, the new Big Ten layout, you know, there's a
pocket where it's like Indiana Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern,
Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State.
If you add Notre Dame in there, it's just like it's more people.
You're continuing to like, put this to, you know, this core
density of schools in one area. Mia on the flipside, something
you said a couple times. I've heard this in other
podcasts when talking about realignment that you know,
you've mentioned the word Brands.
And you know, when you look at it, when you're selling this to
TV Partners, like you look at what Disney has done, they're
buying Brands like they got Marvel, they got, you know, Star
Wars like they're just buying bankable brands that they can
then sell and build off of. And, you know, I think that's
what Apple likes is that, you know, USC and UCLA are Brands
like they really are. And This is where from a
geographic perspective, Notre Dame does nothing but from a
brand perspective, they are probably the last good brand out
there that you can grab. And so that's where I think it's
very, very interesting. I also again, looking at it from
a kind of a three-dimensional chess piece you kind of don't
want them sitting out there because again if the SEC grabs
them now suddenly the SEC has gotten into enemy territory
where you know they now I have a team in your territory or you
don't have a team in their territory.
So it's almost like you got to grab them before the SEC.
Does but II, look at this very much like a brand thing where
it's like, Disney Gets Brands they can bank and sell them.
And I think that's how the Big Ten would sell this, and that's
where I think Notre. Dame makes a lot of sense in
that respect, even though they don't do much geographically.
But I'm but I also know, they have like a weird contractual
thing with the ACC too. Well, when he 36 was like, how
do you break that? Everything seems to be able to
be broken. So this is why lawyers exist,
Let Me series, like yes, they have a grant of rights.
This is what they say this, with the Big Ten spends our money on
like, hey, here's Make that go away.
I mean they have a grant of rights and look, I think this is
where ultimately the ACC. This is the fascinating thing to
me is this like the ACC went and hired Jim Phillips who lost out
on the Big Ten Commissioners job, and they hired him
specifically to try to sort this out because they've seen the
train coming for a while. Like they are like all those
schools are at a tremendous Financial disadvantage.
That's growing exponentially and they don't really have a good
recourse now, I don't think that Jim Phillips can renegotiate.
that television deal without all of the schools saying we're
totally in that grant of rights is as was pointed out earlier,
is binding but it's only binding if you know, you're in a
competitive environment and this is ultimately where I think the
ACC is eventually not going to be able to handle things because
you know there's I have a hard time believing that these
schools are going to allow themselves to be led down a A
path where they are going to be put at severe Financial
disadvantages for any more than a couple of seasons and when
whatever the conferences you know rights might say I think
you're going to see a situation where somehow they're going to
find a way out of it. What is that way?
I don't know I'm not a lawyer but I do think that it's
important to keep in mind that you're talking about some pretty
big Brands and you're talking about schools a lot of Pride who
are looking around and watching schools that they feel that they
are at the very least equal to if not Superior Five times the
money on a yearly basis. I don't think that's going to
stand and I so, you know, whatever the mechanism is, you
know, I don't think that it's helpful to just cut off the
discussion at this point and say, well, the ACC has this
grant of rights that runs literally another 14 years, 14
years and therefore we can't have the discussion.
So I'm just going to like I'm just going to say we're going to
live in fantasy land for a little bit, and we're going to
say that somehow, there's going to be a way Way that if a team
wanted to they could be dislodged from the ACC that's
going to be the big question mark in order to aim.
Obviously the one that makes the most sense and I think as
Patrick said, you know, in order to use Easy conference jump was
the ACC which is looking less and less appealing.
This might be their last chance to make a move before they fall
behind with a new coach. Now might be the time I think
the Notre Dame things fascinating because in order to
aim ultimately is the test case because they have the fewest
actual ties to the ACC, they're not a full.
Remember in anything and we're not in football, that's the one
that matters and they can get out of all those other ties if
they really want to. So what will that ultimately
mean? They haven't joined the Big Ten
for a variety of reasons. They haven't needed to
financially because when they have that NBC deal it.
Paid them almost as much that they pay the pay them almost as
much as what a Big Ten school was making when that started.
Now it's not even close. And so if I'm Notre Dame, I'm
staring your relevance in the face unless I can figure out.
Out a way to put myself in a better position and I think that
this is a run out. I know it's a random question
but I know but it's like well, that ends well like they say
that's that's kind of their their end of the wall moment
because of that ends. It's like then, do they get
another deal like that? Well hey we're just going to
sign the Big Ten. What's fascinating about this
whole? Meteorites bidding process?
For the Big Ten is one of the big bidders is NBC.
And, you know, fox has driven the bus on so much of the media.
It's negotiations for the Big Ten because they are really
joined at the hip. I mean, the big fox.
I think most of, you know, this but Fox half owns the Big Ten
Network. FOX is the primary distributor,
you know, Fox made big noon, Saturday, the Cornerstone and
the Big Ten is Right, smack dab in the middle of that.
So you know, and as Ryan points out in the comments, the NBC
deal ends in 2025 right around the time that you would be
making some moves on this. So do we look at this and does
end DC say, hey, we will, we will move around what we're
asking for if we can bring Notre Dame into this now sudden some
of our lawyers, go figure it out, right?
You know, and now you've got one of Notre, Dame's all-time
traditional rivals in the Big Ten and I'm not talking about
Michigan, I'm talking about USC and, you know, suddenly now it's
you start to see the Pieces come together.
The other important thing about all of this that I think is
really fascinating. Is you known order Dame?
Lot of the resistance that Notre Dame's had to joining.
The Big Ten has been, they haven't had to and they were
bitter about Michigan. And by the way, if you have
anybody who ever wants to read the history of the big tent, by
far, the biggest assholes in Big Ten history, our Michigan, and
to some degree, they still are. But at this point, they're, you
know, they're like the, a lot of that is water under the bridge,
you know? And so I look at Notre Dame and
I say, well, we're gonna have to let bygones be bygones on both
sides, because at this point, both, He's could use each
other's help. The Big Ten doesn't need in
order to aim, but wow, that's a hell of a cherry to put on top
of the sundae, you know, to have a football conference that now
has Ohio State Penn State USC, Notre Dame.
Michigan, like just those five Brands, you know, from a fanbase
Wisconsin, up-and-coming Michigan State.
I mean, it's yeah, I mean from a fan base perspective, the five I
listed, I mean that is essentially Coast-to-Coast
football, yes, the SEC has got some really top level Brands but
you know that That sells on a national level, in the way that
perhaps, you know, even Alabama, Texas doesn't necessarily due to
quite the same volume. It's at least competitive at
that point. Now, the rest of them.
So, the third scenario because we're doing is kind of its own
case, study the third scenario that I think is worth
investigating is the rest of the ACC is the ACC going to try to
stick together with a try to partner with the remaining
Pac-12 schools and forms. Kind of super conference.
I think that would be suicidal because at the end of the day, I
don't think that that conference works like I do when you look at
that, I'm like, that's not really attractive because
there's not really against a NC State, this Saturday, you know,
as much as people come, you know, are joking about Rutgers,
USC Rutgers USC's more compelling than what you just
said, you know. Now this is this is going to be
a fascinating thing to watch because we when the last round
of realignment was going, there were a lot of rumors that North
Carolina was very interested in joining the Big Ten and this is
you know, the you've heard about Virginia as a possibility
because they've looked at what Maryland is doing from a
financial perspective. I think both those schools,
North Carolina and Virginia. They look at Maryland, I like
that those that was that was like driving a test.
That was the that was the, that was the family living.
You know, in essentially the ACC double-wide and now they're
pulling in literally double the money that North Carolina and
Virginia are, I mean that there's a sting there from a
reputational perspective that is hard to shake and if you're the
Big Ten and you look at that and you say, you know what, we would
love to cut the heart out of the ACC because North Carolina is
essentially the heart of the ACC.
I mean, you go back and look at ACC history, they are
essentially the straw that stirs, the drink and they are
obviously a great basketball brand in there.
A good enough football brand that they can at least be
somebody that makes A contribution, Virginia is more
of an academic act, you know, acquisition, But ultimately,
they would just want a Big Ten or excuse me.
A national title in basketball, they can contribute things
athletically as well. I've heard people mention Duke
Duke, doesn't really bring anything on the football side.
But it does bring academics and basketball.
So there's a lot of different ideas.
I think that you brought up before.
But I you know it's the problem is I think I think the Big Ten
ends at 20. Like I think the numbers well go
for is 20 so if you're looking at so But I you brought this
idea I think on your podcast a year ago that like one way to
dislodge Notre Dame is you just kill the ACC so you get UNC
maybe you get two teams, get UNC in Virginia.
The problem is you dislodge them and then it's like the ACC is
floundering, they can't afford to because in the end to it's
like someone has to lawyer up and you gotta pay for those
lawyers. If Notre Dame's, like we're out
and then they can't, you know, they're a fledgling conference.
But if you take two ACC schools and then you also get Notre
Dame. Now you got to pick between
Washington and Oregon. On and so it's like it because I
don't think 21s, right? Number 20 feels like the right
number 22. Feels like I might be too but
also it does like doesn't just pulling North Carolina do enough
to destroy the ACC to then kind of dislodge Notre Dame, where
you still have the two spots for Washington and Oregon.
I need to, I need to there's a couple of great comments.
We've got coming in but I want to, I mean I've got, we've got
one specifically that addresses the thing that you just
mentioned which is from Bryant on, Sony coach Town.
Sony from assembly call, is there a saturation point with
Teams in a conference or is more always going to be better.
So I think there's two separate answers, that's a great
question. And a lot of people have been
like, you know, things aren't even going to play each other
with Patrick's been screaming about getting pods in the
conferences, which I'm in favor of, we should definitely get
some pods, but here's what I would say.
There's two things that you have to consider if you're the Big
Ten in the SEC and one of them is the financial piece that
we've already discussed, it's like, How big does the pie piece
have to be to be attractive to all of the members?
And if it shrinks below a certain point, where is the
diminishing returns. So now, you know, I think the
argument to be made in favor of continued expansion, at least to
some degree, is that, if you're adding pieces, that will either
in the moment or within the next 10 years, increase the overall
size of the pie proportionally, then I think you're doing
something right? I mean if you went back and
said, yeah, the big Ten's going to add Braska and they're going
to do absolutely nothing for a decade and a half.
And they're going to add Rutgers who's going to do, basically
nothing for a decade and they're going to add marrow and who's
not going to add much? Well that's going to that's
going to shrink the pie that's going to make the Big Ten less
attractive. Well, guess what?
It did, none of those things then the Big Ten is now gone.
Essentially increased their television Revenue by a factor
of 10 since Nebraska joined the league.
So, I do think that to some degree the arguments against
adding teams because it's going to shrink the New is is less
valid and so you have to keep that in mind.
But the other thing I think the more important 12 coaches
question is, Ultimately these aren't conferences the same way
that we grew up with conferences in the 70s and 80s and 90s.
These are Brand brand collections it's like you know,
when Yum brands sponsors the Kentucky Derby and they have to
feature like KFC and Taco Bell and all of these things have
seen and Pepsi in the ad like it's it it's a suite of Brands
and marks and logos and fan bases, that comprise essentially
a portfolio of businesses and I would not get hung up on.
I would like to say what I'd love to see, honestly would be a
20 team conference. That was split into five or four
or five team sub leagues. That played a little playoff at
the end that eventually sent a team to play in the national
championship game in football, you know, I think ultimately,
what you're doing is a conference is operating as a
business entity that is trying to put the best portfolio of
Brands together to go to Media Partners, or to use yourself in
the Big Ten networks case and go out and talk to advertisers
directly and say, we have a portfolio of entertainment
product of brands that you are going to want to spend a lot of
money on because it's going to deliver the audience that you
are desperate to get to. And that to me is the more
important thing. Now does there come a point
where adding teams becomes less attractive, like adding, who
should I pick on here? Adding Texas Tech and nothing
against Texas Tech but adding Texas Tech if you're a
conference like the Big Ten or the SEC does nothing for your
brand portfolio. And yes, it's probably not fair
that Texas Tech is on the outside and say a Rutgers or an
Indiana is on the inside. But there are winners and losers
in life, you know, and, and these are the sorts of things
that happen sometimes, you know, when the Music Stops somebody is
left without a chair. And in this case, it's Texas
Tech, or its Kansas, or somebody like that, but I do think that
there is a balance that you strike, and it changes over
time, like, 10 years ago, I don't think this makes, this
move makes sense, for USC and UCLA, and it doesn't make sense.
In the Big Ten today, it makes perfect sense for both.
And that's because the business changes and that ultimately is
what you have to think about when you think about this, in my
opinion, is this idea that you can't stand Pat, you have to
re-evaluate, but I do think that as you add there will come a
point where it's like, I don't think we want to add that school
or that school because they don't do much for the brand
portfolio. And so that's how I would think
about it and and I think that's how the conference's ultimately
were thinking about it as well. We had another A question from
Patrick, can NBC afford, not to hang with these streaming
services with peacock and the streaming infrastructure already
in place, that could really Hammer home that platform.
This is really the key piece and this is where the news that
Apple decided that they weren't to get back in to the bidding
rights on. The Big Ten thing is really
important because it is a, it is a multipolar media world right
now, because it is all the terrestrial television,
networks, ESPN, CBS NBC, You know, you know and then you've
got kind of like your FS ones. You've got big fox.
You've got the little foxes but then you've also got all these
streaming services some of which are tied to the platform's
peacock with NBC, you know, CBS all access or whatever they're
calling their thing. Now obviously ESPN plus which is
a huge part of their platform. If you look at what ESPN plus
has done, they have really fully integrated.
A lot of the Sports are non-revenue sports into the ESPN
plus platform, where you can get them.
I'd love to see Fox do that with like, Big 10 Network plus and
some of the other things because I think I'd love to see that
become much more visible. And I think Patrick's Point is
really good if I'm in BC and I'm left, holding a bag in the only
thing that's in the bag is and is like Notre Dame.
And I don't even have the rights to Notre Dame's non-revenue
Sports because all that's with the ACC Network, which is a
subsidiary of ESPN. I'm like, I don't like what I'm
doing here, but being able to leverage Peak Cock and and you
know the streaming on that and we know peacock very well Scott
because we're both IndyCar fans. Being able to have more
programming, that's pertinent to sports fans that aren't just
Premier League fans, and IndyCar fans is going to be really
important for that streaming service to continue to grow
because ultimately, you got to have content that people want to
watch. And it's I mean college football
is about the second or third. Best thing that you can have
overall in the in the u.s. right now, as far as that sort of
content is concerned with sports.
So this is something that I I'm fascinated by is the streaming
services. Like I'm I love the business of
Netflix and Apple TV and Disney. And I do think my two cents here
are going to be I'm not going to have an answer but I think
you're in this world where you have.
Yeah I'm seeing this here from Adam, the 2.5 billion for Apple
TV and MLS deal. What's interesting, is some
point. I keep thinking like that, you
know, Amazon Apple TV Netflix, like they're going to get into
sports because it's just, it's kind of the last thing that has
As you know the kind of pull on the flip side, I will say this
that when you look at every deal Netflix Disney Apple when they
make deals for meteorites sports are like the thing.
They hate to do. Because when you buy the MBA
rights like Disney, like I said, they bought Marvel.
They have Marvel forever. Like they can now show Marvel
movies for all of time. If you buy the MBA rights, you
don't get it forever. You by the Big Ten rights, you
get it for ten years. And Only these it you know those
companies don't like to. Then suddenly have to pull stuff
off their service like Netflix Disney, all of them, they like
collecting and now it's like now we are the home for every Star
Wars movie ever Dizzy's, not in the business of ten years from
now, saying, oh, Star Wars is now on Netflix.
Sorry, like, they want to build a universe where they have a
tab, they can sell, you know, rides for it.
And so they don't want to build a, you know, Big 10 football
theme park and then 10 years. So they don't have the right?
So it's I do wonder if those Streaming services are ever
going to get into sports and Aid in a full way because it's just
kind of a typical of what their business model is.
That said, the MBA is coming. Do I think in 2025 the big Ten's
kind of in the same spot? Like the Big Ten is in a nice
spot where they're one of the last big properties is going to
be available until the next cycle.
And so I think NBC's in a unique spot because they have a nice
streamer, but I think it's going to be To be very atypical for
like apples. They were going to buy the whole
rights and we're going to own it because well, it's not what
they've normally done. Well is they like to own
properties forever? But I'll but I'm going to pull
up that comment from Adam, Cabe Apple just committed two, and a
half billion dollars over ten years to MLS and the less.
Now they got an exclusive deal and MLS is doing the production
or paying for the production but still that's a lot of money.
I mean you know that's that that's about what we're looking
at potentially. You know that the Big Ten might
be able to pull if they play their cards, really right?
Maybe not two and a half billion but we're certainly talking in
the billions of dollars. Now the the problem for a lot of
people and I'll include myself. Well thank you like apple apple
it does have like just quick going there sitting on two
hundred billion dollars in just cash the revenue.
They may mean that's a that's a 12-month period of revenue for
them like it is, it's a it's a staggering money, it's a round.
It's a rounding error for Apple to spend that much money and his
and his and I will Last thing, I'll say this is like it is much
more in the realm of these companies.
I know it's not possible but just you know these companies
don't think in terms of let's buy the rights for the NBA,
they're much more. Like, let's just buy the MBA.
Like that's kind of where these companies are not saying it's
obviously not possible in college athletics, but I
wouldn't be surprised to see a more out-of-the-box, you know,
well, you have a so versus just being we're going to pay for
billion dollars. So, you know, this is this is
interesting to me. I mean ultimately, Mately.
I don't know what direction it goes.
I mean the even the grant of rights thing with the ACC you
know there was there was an interesting story last year
about Clemson at potentially joining the the SEC.
And you know the everybody points back to that grant of
rights thing. But ultimately if if the ACC
folds on its own especially if he has pn's involved then the
grant of rights is gone and even if the grant of rights sticks
around, all that happens is That the television Revenue that you
would have earned in the conference stays in the
conference. Well, if I'm only earning twenty
million dollars a year and I'm a Florida State or Miami or a
North Carolina and I have the potential to make a hundred
million dollars a year. I mean, okay, great.
I'm only making 80 million dollars a year for the, the the
next couple of years or whatever.
Yeah, it's better than its and may, it may not even be that, it
may just be okay. Well I'm gonna forfeit the 20
million but I'm making an extra 80 million on top of that
because I've got Anna left. Again we got to get lawyers
involved in this and it's my fault for not inviting a lawyer
to the podcast. We'll do that next time.
But this is also where the meteorites uses weren't, you
know, a yes and BC or an apple can say, we'll just we'll pay
that. Yeah.
But we'll eat the 20 million of that grant of rights and so
we'll just pay it off. So anyway, the last thing I'll
say on this then this is where I think it really gets
interesting. If you're the Big Ten, you might
look at this. And you might say, okay, if
that's the case, if we've got the money back and if we can buy
out the grant of rights, do you, Why?
I mean the the academic part of the Big Ten is tough because,
you know, you want a a you schools in most cases you want
schools. That really have a high academic
profile, but you also want market, share.
You also want to be able to get in the marketplace.
So, do you look at it and you say, you know what, we're going
to grab Miami, which is a pretty good academic school because
that brings a great football brand.
And another huge Market to our conference diagram at.
Miami hasn't been great lately. I'm, you know, but the You know,
you're really not going to bring a Florida State in because I
don't think they match the academic profile, but if you
could grab a Florida State or you could grab a Clemson and
keep that school from joining the SEC.
Now, suddenly you put him, you put your the whole thing into an
entirely different category because now you're competing on
the scc's turf for their players for their potential recruits.
I don't think you can't let the SEC get Notre Dame.
Yeah. That will absolute well and
that's the thing. I don't think that the Notre
Dame, whatever. The SEC.
I like that. That makes as little sense
culturally as, you know, as anything in college sports like
like Virginia Tech in, the ACC is a weird match because though,
that is, that is not really an ACC fan base in order.
Damon the SEC would be like a completely unmatched group,
right? That you mentioned.
The Notre Dame USC. You're also pretty bringing this
world that I love. If you get Notre Dame in Miami
and you can That Catholics and convicts.
Yeah, that's the nobody great Spider-Man worries.
You can bring back anyway. So we don't know where it's
going, but I do think the Big Ten, I'll ask this.
Yeah, we talked to schools a lot.
If if you see the Big Ten continuing to expand or that we
haven't mentioned, who you think the SEC would go after was one
of my questions, what do you? I'm curious, who you think on
the SEC and then, what do you see?
As a timeline of this happening? See it happening the next 12 to
24 months, but yeah, I'm also curious, who do you think the
SEC might? Well, okay.
So, you know, the I do that. There will be movement.
I don't know. The movement will be immediate,
but it kind of depends and this is the big uncertain factor for
me on this. Like if I'm if I'm looking at
this forward like the big Ten's going to be wrapping up its
media negotiations at some point and I think they would like to
know in order to aim in order to are you coming with us?
If so, let's put that on the table because guess what?
That means more money for you and it means more money for us.
You know, you grow the pie that way now.
You probably don't need to hurry it at this point but you do need
to factor that into the negotiations and that needs to
be a thing. And it's like look if you're
going to do this, we need to know because we got to work out
the contractual elements and that is going to be fascinating
to me to see how it all goes. You know, the big other item
here is ESPN and actually Ryan just brought this up.
The the SEC in the ACC are both essentially partnered primarily
with ESPN, you know what's fascinating to me about this The
thing is that ESPN was the reason why we didn't get the
four super conferences back in the last round of things because
they didn't want there to be that much consolidation.
They wanted to be able to, you know, to bid things down a
little bit so they got in the middle of things and they kept
Texas from leaving for the Pac-12.
But they also did that because the Pac-12 is a fox property and
the Big Ten is a fox property. And so you've got this proxy war
happening between ESPN, which has As the SEC and the ACC, and
the Big 12 and you've got the, you know, Fox which has the Big
Ten now and the remnants of the Pac-12.
And so, I'm curious to see how that goes because ultimately, I
think a lot of these schools, if you're smart, if you're an order
Dame, if you're a Clemson, if you're in North Carolina, if
you're a Miami, you're saying, what can you do for us?
Like, what, what can you provide us?
And, you know, the SEC just went through adding two new schools.
And yes Texas and Oklahoma both added something to the pie, but
with that, the SEC just kind of got up to where the Big Ten was
from a financial perspective. Maybe slightly ahead if I'm in
that and I'm like, okay if you know I found Miami or if I'm
Florida State or if I'm North Carolina, am I going to join the
SEC where suddenly I'm like the eighth or ninth or tenth most
important brand in football or do I want to join the Big Ten
where I'm going to be higher up in the echelon and maybe make
more? Money and have more flexibility
because I'm not in a conference that's cannibalizing, its
schedule. And, you know, is already
committed. You know, the one nice thing
about being a Coast to Coast conference is you've got a much
larger television window to put games on it.
And so, you know, unlike I mean all the SEC schools are in
there. Yeah.
They're they're in a there in a window and there's only so many
prime time slots that really work and you know the pack is a
big tank enough for Prime Time games ever.
Saturday. Yeah.
So that's that's going to be the big thing to watch for me is,
how does all that play out? And I don't know the answer, but
it's a lot of fun to talk about and we've already done an hour
and a half on this. I think we're going to, we're
going to call time on it, but I would encourage you all to stick
around. I'm going to, as I mentioned, be
doing at least one more podcast. Probably to on this, over the
weekend. We've got some special guests to
bring in, get their perspective on things.
I really appreciate everybody tuning in on very short notice
to Talk with us about this. Some great comments.
What are your thoughts on possibly getting more Bill
Walton in your life? Now I love it.
I mean give me all the Bill Walton like Bill Walton doing a
mid-February game in Bloomington.
I can't wait to hear him complaining.
I was riding my bicycle and it's like five degrees outside like
just I can't wait just just just do.
The content will will be amazing.
But know I you know, I guess to summarize my thoughts on this I
me, I get again, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, I
get why people are unhappy because what they are used to in
college, sports has rapidly disappeared.
And I'd love to tell you that, that was somehow an illusion or
that we're going to go back to the good old days and it's just
not. And right now, it's one of those
situations where the Big Ten and Indiana are in a much better
position today than they were yesterday.
Because now you've added two schools in a major media.
The market that have tremendous cachet that that's going to put
you in a financial position where you're going to be able to
sustain and maybe even improve in certain areas and it's going
to create some tremendous games, some tremendous matchups going
to create a whole new era of college sports.
It's going to look different than the last era of college
sports and I know that's going to be disappointing to some
people. But if, you know, as you
mentioned, you can either be part of the haves or the Have
Nots and you know, I use part of the halves right now and that's
nice to see. And there's a lot of Cool and
interesting and probably peculiar things that are going
to happen as things shift over the next few years.
Some of which that we can't predict right now, but I'm
fascinated at least from my perspective to watch all of it,
take place and see how it all shakes out.
Yeah, I mean, it's, I will reiterate what I said.
This is a good thing and you're in a spot where you need to be
growing or you're going to be picked apart and it's really
good, but it's really good that We are part of a growing
conference and it looks like there's going to be two winning
conferences as the way this works out and we're part of one
of them and it's really good luck that we're not just the
kind of the last one in like we're one of the founding
members. So we can, we can make fun of
Maryland. And we can make fun of Records.
Like we're one of the oh, jeez of the Big Ten and you get Notre
Dame, it's like Indiana. The state is the center of the
Big Ten Conference right would have, hey, Gris Gris of the
schools. Would be there intentionally.
Northwestern Illinois, really close and not too not too.
Hey. Just the crossroads of America.
The crossroads of the Big Ten. Yeah, that's dope, Rebecca
crossover classic. But, you know, it's and you
know, hey, I love the idea of you Indiana playing at Pauley
and UCLA coming here, you know, seeing those things happen,
Indiana playing USC and football it.
This this is all good stuff. And again, the the thing that
the money just can't be understated and the fact that it
puts us ahead of everyone else. We just keep growing it as good.
But no, I'm I'm Cited. And I'm, I hope that I'm very
curious to see who makes the next move.
Like, it'll happen at some point but is it is it the Big Ten or
is he the SEC? But I will say now I feel very
good that we are in steady hands because I was very worried.
The Big Ten was just going to stand Pat and like we did the
right thing but you know you have to give the Big Ten credit
for a lot of things, over the last 25 years that you mentioned
the history of things, but they were very forward thinking in
getting their own network. So Very fair point there on the
Twitter but you know, they were the one to push this forward
with a network or the time, everyone's like what you had to
play in the Big Ten Network. Well, that that changed the
Paradigm for everything. The suddenly all the other
conferences were fighting to get their own network up and running
the Big Ten was first, you know, they expanded into into, you
know, everyone. The Rutgers thing is funny, but
it's like that got. It was they were looking at
markets really before, other conferences, were looking at
markets, like we're going to unlock New York to help our TV
market. And as you said, the money only
got better. Better as they added schools.
They added Nebraska which again, is kind of the we're going to
buy it. We're going to get a brand in
the Big Ten and they've been very forward thinking and you
know the SEC made their move. I would say that our move of
getting USC and UCLA was just a better better move, it looks
better and it feels more like we're getting to Brands who want
to be with us where it almost feels like Texas.
And Oklahoma are kind of, you know, sorry for the metaphor.
But kind of bucking horses you're bringing in that are kind
of like well really ho These guys, like, do they really want
to be here? They fucking around.
Like this feels way more synergetic, so it just all along
the way. It's like, it does feel like we
are in good hands and while I felt like maybe they were being
too passive, they've been on the the front of the curve the whole
time. So I feel like the next moves
they make, we have to give them credit, they're doing the right
thing, so I'm super happy. We'll talk more about this as we
move forward. I like to thank everybody for
joining us. Thanks to Scott for hopping on
on short notice. It's always fun to talk about
these things with you. And Thanks to everybody for all
your comments on Twitter on YouTube.
During this whole podcast, our thanks to home-field apparel,
who, of course, is our title sponsor and has more vintage
stuff that they'll be throwing out here.
Since Big, Ten shirt looking logo, looking forward to that
and I, as I joked on the last podcast, I'm looking forward to
the collection of defunct conference logo shirts.
Like the first time I can buy like a vintage Pac-12 shirt.
Logo are too soon. All right, Pete, just amazed
Anyway, thanks to all you folks for joining us and we'll be back
later on in the week with some more podcasts on this particular
topic. And we'll be back in July with
IU football as it's getting ready to go, we'll talk some IU,
basketball, as well. So, thanks again, for joining
us. Everybody for Scott over there.
I'm Galen. This is Crimson, cast will catch
you folks on the flip side? Be sure to tune into assembly
call. As they will have, they had
plenty to say on assembly call Radio tonight.
Be sure to listen to that episode as well.
So anyway, catch you folks on the flip side.
Bring back the bison and welcome to Los Angeles.
Ladies and gentlemen, have a good one.