1
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,600
You're listening to the Back 
Home Network presented by Home 

2
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:23,160
Field Apparel. 
Hi folks, welcome back to 

3
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,640
Crimson Cast for continuing our 
great football coverage. 

4
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,800
Getting ready for the season. 
We're two weeks out. 

5
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,320
I'm excited to have Ken Beikoff 
on. 

6
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,360
We have some good stories about 
what he's going through. 

7
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,360
Before we get to that, just real
quick, want to say a shout out 

8
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,560
to our friends at Home Field 
Apparel, who are sponsors of the

9
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,040
program and the whole home 
network? 

10
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,480
Check it out, man. 
They have Bomber Jackets, which 

11
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,680
it kind of started with. 
The I U Jacket, which I have, 

12
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,680
It's awesome. 
The I U Bomber Jacket that they 

13
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,480
now have, They're dropping 
Virginia Tech, Florida State, 

14
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,640
just some really, really cool 
stuff. 

15
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,240
They have a whole new collection
of University of Illinois 

16
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,680
Chicago Fired up the Flames, 
which it's great for this time 

17
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,080
of year because it's super hot. 
So go check them out. 

18
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,440
Home field apparel use promo 
code home for 15% off your first

19
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,400
purchase. 
So I was joking about Ken. 

20
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,200
He is definitely fired up 
because he's having some A/C 

21
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,520
issues this week. 
A bad week for no A/C, but 

22
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,960
excited to have Ken on. 
He's the Pigs podcast host. 

23
00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:22,440
Also author of the best selling 
book, Hoosier Beginnings. 

24
00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:26,060
Most importantly for football, 
he is one of the hosts of the 

25
00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:29,220
postgame call in show at the end
of the game, so he gets to hear 

26
00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:31,780
all of the ire of everybody 
who's calling in. 

27
00:01:31,980 --> 00:01:34,140
But we try and do this every 
year, beginning and end of the 

28
00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:35,940
season. 
Ken, it's great to have you on 

29
00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:38,340
my friend. 
Thrilled to be on, and thrilled 

30
00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:41,300
that my air conditioner is up 
running, at least temporarily. 

31
00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:44,500
Hopefully we'll get more people 
out here to look at it tomorrow 

32
00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:46,260
to make sure that we don't have 
a problem. 

33
00:01:46,260 --> 00:01:51,780
But you know, it's it's. 
A first world problem, to say 

34
00:01:51,780 --> 00:01:53,300
the least. 
So I'm, I'm, we're, we're just 

35
00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:56,060
trying to fight it through and 
teaching Nick and Charlie my 

36
00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:58,260
sons how to how to battle 
through adversity a little bit. 

37
00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:02,060
Yeah, it's it's a problem I 
would take the first world out 

38
00:02:02,060 --> 00:02:03,460
of. 
It's really, really hot out 

39
00:02:03,460 --> 00:02:04,860
there. 
So it's it's a real problem. 

40
00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:08,139
I I love the hot we we we went 
to Key West just a couple of 

41
00:02:08,139 --> 00:02:12,660
weeks ago at the start of July 
and it was 110 is heat index 

42
00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:14,300
every day there and it was 
fantastic. 

43
00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:15,820
The hotter the better, as far as
I'm concerned. 

44
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,120
No, I'm, I'm American. 
When I go to Europe, it's like I

45
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,400
need air conditioning. 
I need ice. 

46
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,320
I'm not. 
I'm, I'm the ugly American. 

47
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,640
No question about it. 
Well, no, it's it's, you know 

48
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,760
we're two weeks away from 
football season. 

49
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,160
I have so many things to hit on.
I want to try and stay 

50
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,920
relatively positive. 
But I'm going to start here with

51
00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,440
this because something, you 
know, GAIL and I did a preview a

52
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,120
couple weeks ago We're it's it's
so tough to put where we are in 

53
00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,320
context and every year is an 
important season. 

54
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,350
It does feel like this is a very
important season, the Tom Allen 

55
00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:48,470
era, but I was, I was thinking 
about it, you know, the last 

56
00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:55,030
time that we had a coach going 
into their 7th year at I U, it 

57
00:02:55,030 --> 00:03:01,550
was Bill Mallory in 1990. 
That year they went 6-5 and one 

58
00:03:02,030 --> 00:03:03,630
they went to the Peach Bowl they
lost. 

59
00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:08,390
The last time before that was 
Lee Corso in 1979 and that that 

60
00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:10,190
was the team that went to the 
Holiday Bowl and kind of broke 

61
00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:14,230
the the bowl seal for Indiana or
the bowl winning seal, I should 

62
00:03:14,230 --> 00:03:17,470
say. 
What I find interesting is in 

63
00:03:17,470 --> 00:03:21,390
both of those scenarios, it did 
feel like you kind of knew like 

64
00:03:21,390 --> 00:03:23,990
what Corsos team was building 
for at that time. 

65
00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:27,850
You know you felt like in by 
1990 you kind of understood what

66
00:03:27,850 --> 00:03:30,450
the Mallory era was and what 
kind of team you had. 

67
00:03:30,730 --> 00:03:35,290
You know with with where we're 
at now in the Tom Allen era, it 

68
00:03:35,290 --> 00:03:37,770
just doesn't feel like we're 
well sorted. 

69
00:03:37,770 --> 00:03:40,850
Like there's the there's kind of
two paths of, you know, we we 

70
00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:43,450
were really good and that that's
what we're we're building toward

71
00:03:43,450 --> 00:03:46,130
this also like we've been really
bad and are we there? 

72
00:03:46,130 --> 00:03:49,450
We're getting back like it. 
It feels very unsettled for a 

73
00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:52,610
spot where we've only been three
times in the last, you know 40 

74
00:03:52,610 --> 00:03:54,610
years in I U. 
Football with having a coach at 

75
00:03:54,610 --> 00:03:56,660
seven years. 
Well I was thinking about 

76
00:03:56,660 --> 00:04:02,620
exactly this and that's the same
thing the earlier today when I 

77
00:04:02,620 --> 00:04:04,500
was thinking about what we're 
going to talk about on here. 

78
00:04:04,820 --> 00:04:07,700
And that is if you were going to
ask me, you know hey make some 

79
00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:10,900
predictions about this team. 
You know lay out this team, I I 

80
00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:13,500
can't help you. 
I I really can't because I have 

81
00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:17,459
no idea what we're going to see 
and and and yet you don't want 

82
00:04:17,459 --> 00:04:20,420
that to be the case this far 
into. 

83
00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:25,020
Somebody's tenure you get, you 
just don't you want to know what

84
00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:29,340
the direction it is for for the 
program, where it's going and 

85
00:04:29,340 --> 00:04:32,380
instead what you have is so many
new faces. 

86
00:04:32,660 --> 00:04:38,500
You have so many people who are 
are new to the program and and 

87
00:04:38,860 --> 00:04:41,700
certainly have seemed to have 
bought into the in the whole and

88
00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:44,540
you know Leo thing. 
But that doesn't mean that 

89
00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:47,620
there's the culture that exists 
and that that to me is is kind 

90
00:04:47,620 --> 00:04:51,540
of the weird thing. 
Because you don't know what 

91
00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:54,420
we're looking at at quarterback,
regardless of who it is, we have

92
00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:56,260
no idea what we're what we're 
going to see there. 

93
00:04:56,820 --> 00:04:59,900
Offensive line was not good last
year and most of those guys are 

94
00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,940
back. 
They they have to progress. 

95
00:05:02,940 --> 00:05:04,500
But that doesn't mean that that 
they're great. 

96
00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:07,860
Defense has been a mess. 
You've had Tom Allen be 

97
00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:14,060
successful in terms of Indiana 
history during his tenure and 

98
00:05:14,060 --> 00:05:17,060
yet six wins in the past two 
years. 

99
00:05:17,530 --> 00:05:20,450
And so this is a really, really 
important year for this coaching

100
00:05:20,450 --> 00:05:23,530
staff because at some point 
you're going to have to say okay

101
00:05:23,530 --> 00:05:27,410
what now? 
And so they needed more talent. 

102
00:05:27,410 --> 00:05:30,090
That was clear last year, 
brought in a ton of talent 

103
00:05:30,090 --> 00:05:33,210
during the offseason. 
Can everybody get up to speed? 

104
00:05:34,030 --> 00:05:35,830
That's that's a real question to
me. 

105
00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:38,350
If, if they're going to be able 
to do that, you can look across 

106
00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:40,830
the parking lot and Mike 
Woodson's team and he did much 

107
00:05:40,830 --> 00:05:43,790
the same thing where he's 
bringing in a lot of new guys. 

108
00:05:43,990 --> 00:05:46,990
I feel differently about Mike 
Woodson because of that NBA 

109
00:05:46,990 --> 00:05:50,950
background where every year you 
have to have a bunch of new guys

110
00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:53,350
come on and get him up to speed.
He's used to that. 

111
00:05:53,350 --> 00:05:56,110
I don't know that that's 
something that Tom Allen has had

112
00:05:56,110 --> 00:05:59,630
to deal with at this level, 
certainly. 

113
00:06:00,270 --> 00:06:03,630
You you the extra talent is 
really important. 

114
00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:06,750
But until they're on the field 
and they have any kind of 

115
00:06:06,750 --> 00:06:11,190
history with each each other, to
me it it's it's tough to even 

116
00:06:11,190 --> 00:06:12,430
start to predict what they're 
going to see. 

117
00:06:12,430 --> 00:06:14,310
And we're not going to know 
after the first week either 

118
00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:17,550
because, hey, you get to start 
with Ohio State, So that is not 

119
00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:19,430
helpful to it. 
For an Indiana football program,

120
00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:22,550
it never is. 
And it feels like we always open

121
00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:24,070
with Ohio State. 
No, and I don't, I don't think 

122
00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:27,170
you're going to know anything 
until probably that Louisville 

123
00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:29,690
game or maybe even the Maryland 
game because you know, you play 

124
00:06:29,690 --> 00:06:31,770
Ohio State like you said, we're 
going to lose that. 

125
00:06:31,890 --> 00:06:34,050
You play Indiana State, you you 
better win that. 

126
00:06:34,050 --> 00:06:37,370
If you don't win that then it's 
we're we're done on you know 

127
00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:39,970
September 8th and and so it's 
like you're not going to know 

128
00:06:39,970 --> 00:06:43,650
anything until the 1st at least 
week 3 and even that's a neutral

129
00:06:43,650 --> 00:06:46,290
site game like I'm I'm not quite
sure where Louisville is that 

130
00:06:46,290 --> 00:06:48,130
that shouldn't be a bridge too 
far. 

131
00:06:48,810 --> 00:06:52,290
The other stat you know on the 
same idea of kind of where 

132
00:06:52,290 --> 00:06:55,890
things are at you know just 
quick plug to our friend Taylor 

133
00:06:55,890 --> 00:06:58,730
over a bite sized bison, a great
substack to check out. 

134
00:06:59,170 --> 00:07:03,820
He had this great chart that 
shows you know lost and gain 

135
00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:07,700
snaps of Indiana this year by 
position, but also just teams in

136
00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:09,980
the Big 10. 
And when you look at the number 

137
00:07:09,980 --> 00:07:16,180
of teams that you know, Indiana 
lost over 3000 snaps last year 

138
00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:20,180
by far and away the most of any 
team in the in the Big 10. 

139
00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:24,620
The only other team over 2000 
snaps was Purdue which also 

140
00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:27,140
didn't have a great season and 
also had a coaching change where

141
00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:29,740
you expect some turnover. 
Again, this goes back to the 

142
00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:33,810
point where I I'm, I'm, I'm 
trying to be optimistic because 

143
00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:36,970
I'm an I'm an optimist at heart 
and I want to see the team do 

144
00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:38,770
well. 
But there's a part where, again,

145
00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:41,730
like when you're in year seven, 
you know, you look at all of 

146
00:07:41,730 --> 00:07:43,850
these other schools in the Big 
10, they're hovering right 

147
00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:47,170
around 1012 hundred snaps lost 
to. 

148
00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:50,370
To be at a point where you're 
losing 3000 snaps, it feels like

149
00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:53,930
we're kind of starting from 
Ground Zero again for the third 

150
00:07:53,930 --> 00:07:56,450
time in three years, and it's 
not a great place to be in. 

151
00:07:57,090 --> 00:07:59,330
No, it's not it. 
It really, really isn't. 

152
00:07:59,330 --> 00:08:01,330
And and to me, that's the 
challenge of all this. 

153
00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:07,070
Is that you're you're dealing 
with a program that should by 

154
00:08:07,070 --> 00:08:10,750
all, for all intents and 
purposes be really kind of have 

155
00:08:10,750 --> 00:08:13,630
that culture and direction and 
everything rolling, and instead 

156
00:08:13,630 --> 00:08:19,150
with so many people leaving, so 
many people coming in, you don't

157
00:08:19,150 --> 00:08:22,040
have that direction. 
Because you you don't know okay 

158
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,360
well. 
This is your group that you 

159
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360
could really rely on. 
This is what we're building 

160
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,800
around. 
This is what there's a, you know

161
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,920
changes a change after change 
after change on the defensive 

162
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,320
side of the ball. 
You have an offense that I goes 

163
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,720
through quarterbacks like like 
nothing any other program goes 

164
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:39,360
through. 
I mean it. 

165
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,679
I'm, I can I look every down. 
And then a team will have this, 

166
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,280
a guy will get hurt, and then 
the backup gets hurt and the 

167
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,280
third Stringer has to come on. 
And Indiana, this is a regular 

168
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,040
thing. 
That's how you end up with 

169
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,400
Xander Diaman starting a bucket 
game. 

170
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,320
You know, that's how you end up,
you know with with going through

171
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,440
so many quarterbacks and now we 
go into this year and people are

172
00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:07,120
are excited about the the faces 
that they haven't seen because 

173
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,520
they haven't seen them yet. 
And and furthermore, we don't 

174
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,360
know what they're going to do. 
I mean Taven Jackson. 

175
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,440
If Taven Jackson's brother 
wasn't Trace, would people be as

176
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,430
high on him? 
I'm not I don't say this as a 

177
00:09:20,430 --> 00:09:23,790
knock against Haven. 
I I I I'm excited to see what he

178
00:09:23,990 --> 00:09:27,790
is is able to bring to the field
but I also and you know he's 

179
00:09:27,790 --> 00:09:29,670
well regarded. 
He went to Tennessee he came 

180
00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:32,230
here it's it's all great. 
I I'm thrilled that he's here 

181
00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:35,350
but would people be as excited 
about it. 

182
00:09:36,190 --> 00:09:38,310
Brandon Brendan Sorbsey, the 
same thing. 

183
00:09:38,470 --> 00:09:42,270
You know he he's a guy that's 
played a little bit but. 

184
00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:46,170
I, I, I, you know there's not a 
ton of you know working snaps 

185
00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:49,810
for him to work with. 
So regardless of how they play 

186
00:09:50,170 --> 00:09:52,130
they're still going to be 
freshmen who are getting their 

187
00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:57,050
feet wet and at Indiana it at 
the most important position in 

188
00:09:57,050 --> 00:10:01,530
in sports boy learning on the 
job is real real tough one. 

189
00:10:02,570 --> 00:10:05,730
Same for the fact that you also 
now these guys, unlike maybe 

190
00:10:05,730 --> 00:10:09,830
Connor Bay's like last year. 
Don't come into the season with 

191
00:10:09,830 --> 00:10:12,710
any kind of mental baggage of 
having to prove themselves or 

192
00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:16,150
overcome criticisms of the past.
They're able to come in clean 

193
00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:19,150
and get that opportunity. 
So you know it. 

194
00:10:19,150 --> 00:10:23,310
It just really is it. 
It feels almost, and I don't 

195
00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:26,150
want to say an expansion 
program, that's not not exactly 

196
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:29,710
how it is. 
But with so many new faces and 

197
00:10:29,710 --> 00:10:33,390
key guys leaving, this happens 
at at college programs around 

198
00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:35,830
the country. 
Guys leave transfer in, transfer

199
00:10:35,830 --> 00:10:36,790
out. 
I get all that. 

200
00:10:38,020 --> 00:10:40,500
But at Indiana, there's there. 
You don't have that tradition of

201
00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,020
history and six wins in the past
two years. 

202
00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:45,420
It it, it makes you worry a 
little bit. 

203
00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:47,940
At least it does for me. 
Now you also say to yourself, 

204
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:52,260
can it get worse? 
Well, I, I I don't know that we 

205
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:53,900
won't. 
We won't know until October what

206
00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:55,940
we're looking at. 
No. 

207
00:10:55,940 --> 00:10:58,260
And you're writing like that. 
The backup quarterback is always

208
00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:00,420
the most popular because you 
don't know who they are. 

209
00:11:00,420 --> 00:11:03,380
But you you talked about us on 
your last Peaks Peaks podcast. 

210
00:11:04,420 --> 00:11:08,690
You know just dive into your 
thoughts on again another season

211
00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:11,970
where Tom Allen just refuses to 
name a starting quarterback. 

212
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:15,970
Like, I I I what I don't know 
here as I've talked to other 

213
00:11:15,970 --> 00:11:19,130
people about this is I don't 
know if it's you know, you're if

214
00:11:19,130 --> 00:11:21,810
it's gamesmanship. 
I I would say this like you're 

215
00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:23,650
you're stupid. 
Like it's just like nobody 

216
00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:26,580
cares. 
Like you're not fooling anybody.

217
00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:29,660
And like Ohio State may not even
be game planning for Indiana at 

218
00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:30,780
all. 
It's like there's like hey 

219
00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:32,140
there's going to be a dude back 
there. 

220
00:11:32,140 --> 00:11:33,940
Just go ahead and sack him. 
Like I don't care what number 

221
00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:35,980
he's wearing. 
It's not like Ohio State or Ryan

222
00:11:35,980 --> 00:11:38,260
Day is really worried about like
who to scheme for. 

223
00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:40,420
It didn't work really well last 
year. 

224
00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:44,060
If it's not a if, it's not game 
planning, if you're not doing 

225
00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:46,810
some kind of cute thing, if 
you're really at a point where 

226
00:11:46,810 --> 00:11:49,450
like you don't know who your 
starter is, like it's also not a

227
00:11:49,450 --> 00:11:51,370
great thing. 
And there is something that 

228
00:11:51,370 --> 00:11:53,130
comes to being like, hey man, 
like you're the starter. 

229
00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:55,410
Like you're running with the 
ones you're going to get. 

230
00:11:55,410 --> 00:11:58,130
Like the the receivers start to 
know what your ball feels like 

231
00:11:58,130 --> 00:11:59,890
to catch. 
Like there is something to that.

232
00:11:59,890 --> 00:12:02,170
So that there's. 
I'm kind of nervous that we're 

233
00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:04,530
doing this all over again. 
It's the exact same thing I felt

234
00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:06,650
last last year. 
I just don't know why. 

235
00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:08,890
I'm kind of answering my own 
question, but I will shut up and

236
00:12:08,890 --> 00:12:11,380
let you talk. 
Like, I just don't know why you 

237
00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:13,340
don't just name a starter and 
especially you have two younger 

238
00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:14,860
quarterbacks. 
Like you're not going to be 

239
00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:16,180
hurting feelings here. 
You don't need. 

240
00:12:16,180 --> 00:12:18,860
It's not like one's a super high
recruit that you need to you 

241
00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:21,140
know, coddle or something. 
It's just like, hey, name your 

242
00:12:21,140 --> 00:12:23,940
starter and you know, 
unfortunately the history of I U

243
00:12:23,940 --> 00:12:27,380
is the backup's going to play 
because quarterbacks just, I 

244
00:12:27,380 --> 00:12:29,300
think I talked about a pod last 
year. 

245
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,860
Like I went and looked. 
It's been like 14 years and a 

246
00:12:31,860 --> 00:12:34,500
lot of it's injury. 
A lot of it is just random bad 

247
00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,340
luck. 
But I think it's been one year 

248
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:40,020
in the last like 14 years we've 
had a quarterback have like 90% 

249
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:41,500
of the snap or something like 
that. 

250
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:44,260
So I don't know. 
But what kind of re go over the 

251
00:12:44,260 --> 00:12:45,300
things you talked about in the 
pod? 

252
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:48,660
Like your thoughts on this 
inability to name a starter 

253
00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:52,100
quarterback by Tom Allen? 
Well, it's not and it's also not

254
00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:55,660
an Indiana centric thing. 
I mean they they they do this 

255
00:12:55,660 --> 00:13:00,460
all around and you know a lot of
different programs do this very 

256
00:13:00,460 --> 00:13:03,300
thing to where they're going to 
wait until you know the the week

257
00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:04,820
or you see who goes on the 
field. 

258
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:08,100
I think it's silly. 
Look at the NFL names, their 

259
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:09,690
starters. 
And you know who? 

260
00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:11,770
Who's going out there? 
Those guys know more about 

261
00:13:11,770 --> 00:13:14,450
football than anybody on the 
planet. 

262
00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:16,210
What? 
What are you going to do? 

263
00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:18,810
You know what? 
You name your starter and you 

264
00:13:18,810 --> 00:13:21,010
own it. 
This is our guy. 

265
00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:23,210
This is who who has won the 
battle. 

266
00:13:23,490 --> 00:13:25,050
He's our guy. 
He's going to, we're going to 

267
00:13:25,050 --> 00:13:27,490
have him out here and the team 
may know it. 

268
00:13:27,490 --> 00:13:29,090
And I understand that. 
You know what? 

269
00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:31,650
We're you know the team. 
If the team knows it, that's 

270
00:13:31,650 --> 00:13:33,490
fine. 
But it just seems silly. 

271
00:13:33,570 --> 00:13:35,410
It just seems like an extra 
little. 

272
00:13:35,830 --> 00:13:38,310
Thing for for people to to worry
about. 

273
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:42,310
You say this is our guy. 
He won the the quarterback 

274
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:44,990
competition. 
Every week's a competition he's 

275
00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:48,230
he's the guy that that has won 
the job and so now we're going 

276
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:51,750
to get behind him and this is 
what we're going to do and this 

277
00:13:52,070 --> 00:13:55,670
and and again privately you're 
doing that and I get that but it

278
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:58,470
just seems like, you know, mind 
games. 

279
00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:01,210
When you're your whether it's 
like Jim Harbaugh and not 

280
00:14:01,210 --> 00:14:03,850
publishing depth charts which I 
think depth charts are stupid 

281
00:14:03,850 --> 00:14:08,010
too but that's part of what you 
what you do And so yeah I mean 

282
00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:13,130
this whole thing of repeatedly 
during Tom Allen's time that's 

283
00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:18,450
one thing that I I I think is 
has been silly is is the half 

284
00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:21,010
pregnant with quarterbacks along
the way to where we're going to 

285
00:14:21,010 --> 00:14:23,250
be this person. 
We're going to be this person. 

286
00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:25,250
We'll see. 
We'll find out on Saturday and 

287
00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:26,090
all that. 
You know what? 

288
00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:29,190
Say this is our guy, now beat 
us. 

289
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:31,310
That's what I want your attitude
to be. 

290
00:14:31,630 --> 00:14:35,470
Not not to to to play, you know,
mind games that at the very 

291
00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:38,710
least publicly because again, it
doesn't make the program look 

292
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:41,270
great to me. 
Well, it's it's funny too that 

293
00:14:41,270 --> 00:14:44,350
you know the the one year that 
Alan was emphatic, he knew who 

294
00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:46,910
the starter was. 
It was 2021 with Pennex for 

295
00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:49,230
Pennex wasn't healthy and it's 
like maybe that wasn't the right

296
00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:50,510
thing. 
And into the Harbaugh thing. 

297
00:14:50,510 --> 00:14:53,790
It's like I I hear you on that 
but it's like I'm I'm okay if 

298
00:14:53,790 --> 00:14:56,230
you want to do dumb cute stuff 
when you're also beating Ohio 

299
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:58,590
State two years in a row and 
going to the, you know College 

300
00:14:58,590 --> 00:15:00,990
Football Playoff. 
Like there is a part where you 

301
00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:03,870
win two big 10 games in two 
years and it's like just how 

302
00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:07,110
about you go with like just 
coach like stop the cute stuff 

303
00:15:07,190 --> 00:15:11,830
do that you know. 
So you also mentioned something 

304
00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:14,470
in one of your other podcasts is
concerning about the defense, 

305
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:16,510
which I've you know going into 
this year. 

306
00:15:16,510 --> 00:15:19,990
I, I, I stand by it like we 
talked about all these other 

307
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:23,620
things and then we get to 
November and we're in a spot. 

308
00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:27,420
We have a quarterback, you know,
like Dexter Williams or you know

309
00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:31,220
McConnell, McConnell, McCauley 
the year before or Zander deep 

310
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:33,420
like you mentioned, where it's 
like we just have a quarterback 

311
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:34,460
you can't throw. 
We can't scheme. 

312
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:36,460
And then it's like, well what 
are we going to do? 

313
00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:37,740
Like we can't. 
We can't. 

314
00:15:37,740 --> 00:15:40,300
And like, so it quarterback is 
so important. 

315
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:43,100
But you were talking about 
defense and it got me kind of 

316
00:15:43,180 --> 00:15:45,620
digging into the numbers and and
I'm just going to rattle some 

317
00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:48,810
stats off for you that are kind 
of alarming when you look at 

318
00:15:48,810 --> 00:15:51,330
Indiana's rank in the Big 10. 
This is all based on Pro 

319
00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:53,370
Football focus. 
So one point of reference, but a

320
00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:56,650
good one. 
Since 2017, here's where we've 

321
00:15:56,650 --> 00:16:01,930
ranked in the Big 10 on defense 
10th, 12th, 10th, 7th, 9th and 

322
00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:03,970
13th. 
But when you look at our our 

323
00:16:03,970 --> 00:16:07,970
ranking the the Pro Football 
Focus like defensive ranking out

324
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:20,990
of 100 going from 2017 to to to 
202286.578.977.875.571.465.4. 

325
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:24,590
So our defense is statistically 
getting worse based on the 

326
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:27,270
grading. 
Our rank is kind of fluctuating 

327
00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:30,270
in that 10 range. 
It's it's interesting because 

328
00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:33,630
Tom Allen came in as you know 
the defensive guy that's kind of

329
00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:37,450
been that you know quietly what 
people I think just rant you 

330
00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:39,770
know think about this program 
just without really digging in 

331
00:16:39,770 --> 00:16:42,010
like oh he's a defensive guy. 
The defense gets the offense 

332
00:16:42,010 --> 00:16:44,610
that lets you down. 
It doesn't seem to be that case 

333
00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:49,730
and that's what I and it's you 
know I will end on this what I 

334
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:51,890
you know this thing again with 
the quarterback it kind of you 

335
00:16:51,890 --> 00:16:55,010
see in the defense where Tom 
Allen you know tried to be head 

336
00:16:55,010 --> 00:16:57,410
coach and defensive coordinator 
didn't work so we hired 

337
00:16:57,410 --> 00:17:00,050
defensive coordinator and then 
last year he goes back to being 

338
00:17:00,050 --> 00:17:03,860
defensive coordinator and now 
he's kind of tentatively handed 

339
00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:05,700
off the reins. 
But it's like the defense has 

340
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:08,700
just gotten steadily worse his 
entire time. 

341
00:17:08,940 --> 00:17:11,619
I'm trying not to just sit here 
and shit all over the program 

342
00:17:11,619 --> 00:17:13,460
and Tom Allen. 
But it's like when you when you 

343
00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:17,940
look at the numbers it's really 
hard to to see where any of this

344
00:17:17,940 --> 00:17:19,339
improved. 
And then you you know like you 

345
00:17:19,339 --> 00:17:22,260
mentioned you basically like the
secondary is just all new. 

346
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:25,339
Like it is completely there's 
just no secondary from last 

347
00:17:25,339 --> 00:17:27,420
year. 
It it, it makes you wonder like 

348
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:30,020
where are we going? 
And I I don't know. 

349
00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:33,330
The defense is is really kind 
of, I think is not being 

350
00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:36,930
mentioned enough out there as a 
real problem in a downward 

351
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,010
trend. 
Well, ask Antoine Randall L what

352
00:17:39,010 --> 00:17:40,970
it's like to play with a bad 
defense. 

353
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:44,170
Ask him how he did in his bowl 
games with his bad defense 

354
00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:47,810
because he didn't go to one. 
And it Defense is everything and

355
00:17:47,810 --> 00:17:49,570
defense is everything to Tom 
Allen. 

356
00:17:49,570 --> 00:17:53,730
And one thing that I give him 
credit is that, you know, you 

357
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:55,770
could, you could look at it as a
criticism of him. 

358
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,840
He realized it wasn't working to
be a head coach and defensive 

359
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,360
coordinator. 
He ain't the first guy to try 

360
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,120
that and have it not work out. 
Realize that his defense wasn't 

361
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,440
working to his standards, so he 
wanted to step in. 

362
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,640
And so he stepped in and did it 
and realize it's still a 

363
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,040
problem. 
He isn't. 

364
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,600
He's at the very least willing 
to try different things when he 

365
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,720
recognizes that something isn't 
working and he isn't digging in 

366
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,640
and doubling down and and and 
going that direction that that I

367
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,060
give him credit for. 
But there's no question that, 

368
00:18:26,060 --> 00:18:30,780
you know, the the struggles on 
defense are to me a far bigger 

369
00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:34,540
problem, far bigger problem than
what Indiana has has dealt with 

370
00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:37,460
offensively because Indiana's 
had a ton of offensive problems.

371
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:39,700
But it's defense that is the 
issue. 

372
00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:43,300
And again, you have to. 
And again, I've mentioned this 

373
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,060
all the time. 
You know Kelvin Sampson is a 

374
00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:51,180
dirty word in Bloomington. 
But Kelvin Sampson, he would say

375
00:18:51,180 --> 00:18:52,740
you have to hang your hat on 
something. 

376
00:18:53,650 --> 00:18:56,970
Whether it's your rebounding 
team, you're a defensive team, 

377
00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:00,730
You shoot 3 pointers, you have 
to hang your hat on something. 

378
00:19:01,010 --> 00:19:05,530
You have to have an identity. 
And early on defense was the 

379
00:19:05,530 --> 00:19:10,650
identity of Tom Allen's football
program and that has slowly 

380
00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:17,050
faded to the point that that we 
are where we were before Tom 

381
00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:20,490
Allen showed up. 
And so how do you fix that? 

382
00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:23,380
Well, he's trying everything. 
He's trying everything to get 

383
00:19:23,380 --> 00:19:27,540
and to get there and so I again 
I give him a ton of credit done 

384
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:31,300
with that. 
It's not as if Tom Allen forgot 

385
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:35,620
how to coach defense that that 
is important to me. 

386
00:19:35,620 --> 00:19:38,740
Now came Womack isn't here so 
that that also is another thing 

387
00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:44,060
that is is important because he 
was a big part of that time is 

388
00:19:44,060 --> 00:19:47,260
Tom Allen was being successful 
as a head coach. 

389
00:19:48,810 --> 00:19:52,930
But it it really is a matter of 
you got to fix this defense. 

390
00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:57,170
You you can't be when you can't 
have an offense that goes 3 and 

391
00:19:57,170 --> 00:20:00,170
out as much as they did last 
year and then have a defense 

392
00:20:00,370 --> 00:20:02,530
that is struggling, that is 
struggling, that is struggling 

393
00:20:02,530 --> 00:20:05,610
and again, who's the star on 
defense? 

394
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:10,530
Who's the star on offense? 
I mean it it it that's the 

395
00:20:10,530 --> 00:20:13,010
struggle here that there has 
been so many different people. 

396
00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:16,970
Everybody got amazingly excited 
about Dexter Williams last year,

397
00:20:17,370 --> 00:20:21,090
and we saw some nice things out 
of Dexter, who threw for 184 

398
00:20:21,090 --> 00:20:24,250
yards. 
You know, it's funny you you 

399
00:20:24,290 --> 00:20:26,890
mentioned that like I've been 
listening to stuff and I I 

400
00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:29,770
completed completed 34% of his 
passes. 

401
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,400
Well, that's the thing. 
He completed 13 passes and we 

402
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,960
took 38 attempts. 
And you know, we won that 

403
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,840
Michigan State game. 
We basically ran the ball. 

404
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,800
Michigan State also missed a 
bunch of field goals. 

405
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,800
Like, you go look at our wins 
last year, there's a lot of like

406
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,000
that was the best possible 
outcome if you play that game 30

407
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,040
times. 
But anyway, you get the win. 

408
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,480
But it's like, I'm with you on 
this and I hope Dexter Williams 

409
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,520
comes back. 
I hope he's awesome, like more 

410
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,320
power to him, but. 
It's like, there's this 

411
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,680
revisionist history where it's 
like, man, Dexter was great and 

412
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,120
like, man, if he didn't get 
injured, we're winning that 

413
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,520
Purdue game. 
It's like, are we? 

414
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,200
It's like, it's like, and so he 
comes back. 

415
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,800
We're like, to me, he's as much 
of a question mark as everybody 

416
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,840
else. 
We have a quarterback. 

417
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:11,890
And we, we ran one kind of 
gimmicky game against Michigan 

418
00:21:11,890 --> 00:21:14,250
State that there's now a ton of 
film on. 

419
00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:18,130
So anyway, by I hear you, I'm 
starting to see that narrative 

420
00:21:18,130 --> 00:21:20,090
of like, wow, just, you know 
he's coming back in mid November

421
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:23,250
and that'll be great. 
It's like I that it's I hope 

422
00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:24,210
he's got. 
I hope it's great. 

423
00:21:24,290 --> 00:21:27,810
But it's like again this is all 
based on hope everybody looks at

424
00:21:27,810 --> 00:21:30,730
the offense again. 
If you look starting, you run 

425
00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:34,010
through the games. 
Last year, Indiana open to an O 

426
00:21:34,380 --> 00:21:38,140
by beating Illinois 23 to 20, 
beating Idaho 3522. 

427
00:21:38,180 --> 00:21:42,980
After that, Western Kentucky 
scored thirty points against 

428
00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:45,260
Indiana. 
Cincinnati scored 45. 

429
00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:51,180
Nebraska scored 35, Michigan 31,
Maryland 38, Rutgers only 24. 

430
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:55,220
But we only scored 17. 
Gave up 45 to Penn State, 56 to 

431
00:21:55,220 --> 00:21:57,820
Ohio State. 
Beat Michigan State and still 

432
00:21:57,820 --> 00:22:00,940
gave up 31 points. 
Gave up thirty to Purdue. 

433
00:22:01,230 --> 00:22:04,470
So every single week you're 
running into defensive problems.

434
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:08,230
And so that is one thing that if
you have a bunch of new faces, 

435
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:11,310
you lose all these snaps. 
What did you lose? 

436
00:22:11,870 --> 00:22:14,190
Because especially on the 
defensive side of the ball, they

437
00:22:14,190 --> 00:22:16,910
were terrible. 
That was not a good defense last

438
00:22:16,910 --> 00:22:18,470
year. 
Not that the offense was good 

439
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:22,740
either, but then you lose all 
these guys and lose all these 

440
00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:24,700
snaps. 
But it's not as if you were 

441
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:28,300
losing these snaps for guys that
just went, you know, 9:00 and 

442
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:31,780
9:00 and 3:00 and they're really
had a great year. 

443
00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:35,740
But it's that said it's it's 
hard because of the fact that 

444
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:39,530
the guys that did have good 
years transferred on out and 

445
00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:42,330
that is they're right and 
actually I'm on I'm on the 

446
00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:45,970
players side with that 100% 
because whatever is better for 

447
00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:47,570
the players is as far as I'm 
concerned. 

448
00:22:47,850 --> 00:22:52,490
But it it to me it really is a 
struggle because you just can't 

449
00:22:52,490 --> 00:22:55,490
hang your hat on anything with 
this program right now. 

450
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:58,690
No. 
And what you're right, like the 

451
00:22:58,730 --> 00:23:01,770
the people who you know it's not
a great team last year, you 

452
00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:04,370
know, zero wins the year before.
So there's there's the narrative

453
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:06,450
that you could say what you just
did of, you know, like. 

454
00:23:07,050 --> 00:23:09,170
Those aren't great players that 
you know, what are you losing? 

455
00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:12,330
On the flip side, it's like, and
I'm, I'm going to mess this stat

456
00:23:12,330 --> 00:23:14,450
up, so I apologize. 
But Taylor Layman mentions on 

457
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:19,130
one of the last podcast he had 
with Galen, it's it's something 

458
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:23,610
like of the, you know, 50 or 60 
upperclassmen currently on the 

459
00:23:23,610 --> 00:23:28,410
team, like only 12 or 13 were 
recruited by Indiana out of high

460
00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:29,450
school. 
So like there's. 

461
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:32,150
And and so I, I hear you and 
there is like, hey, that was a 

462
00:23:32,150 --> 00:23:34,870
bad secondary last year. 
So like let's get new people. 

463
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:39,270
But the other side of the coin 
is like you know when when you 

464
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:41,390
start going into the transfer 
port or you're getting those 

465
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:44,190
people like we're not Ohio 
State, like we're not Penn 

466
00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:45,950
State, we're not getting the top
tier. 

467
00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:47,230
We're getting a couple guys here
or there. 

468
00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:49,990
And it's like people you know, 
bad situations other places, but

469
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:52,750
you know we're we're not the the
best place on the street. 

470
00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:56,430
And so we're getting midlevel 
people in, Like when you look at

471
00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:59,670
schools like Iowa and Wisconsin,
you know? 

472
00:24:00,030 --> 00:24:02,190
Even what they're doing in 
Illinois, like the way that 

473
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:05,070
you're building these programs 
that don't have a historical 

474
00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:08,030
amazing base like in Indiana, 
you know the way they're doing 

475
00:24:08,030 --> 00:24:09,990
is they're getting two and three
star recruits and you're 

476
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:13,230
building them into you know four
or five star players. 

477
00:24:13,710 --> 00:24:16,150
You know, I just, I again, I 
don't know. 

478
00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:20,110
This is where like you're Tom 
Allen is a very tough spot 

479
00:24:20,270 --> 00:24:22,830
because you you're you're deep 
enough into your tenure, you box

480
00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:25,190
yourself in and you haven't had 
a couple of good scenes. 

481
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:27,270
You've got to turn stuff around 
very quickly. 

482
00:24:27,790 --> 00:24:29,670
I don't know how you do. 
This is why Indiana's a really 

483
00:24:29,670 --> 00:24:32,030
tough place to coach. 
But it's like the idea of like 

484
00:24:32,030 --> 00:24:33,790
we're just going to become like 
the portal place. 

485
00:24:33,790 --> 00:24:36,510
Like that's that's different 
when you're Mike Woodson and you

486
00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:39,110
have real NIL dollars and you 
have connections and you're 

487
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:41,790
getting five star portal guys 
and your basketball where two 

488
00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:45,070
guys can make a huge difference,
you know, so I I hear you. 

489
00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:47,510
But like the other side of that 
coin is also frightening that 

490
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:51,870
it's like why is there such 
little talent being pulled and 

491
00:24:51,870 --> 00:24:55,810
grown through our program? 
And yeah, it's a it's a great 

492
00:24:55,810 --> 00:24:58,250
question And and there have been
multiple players that have come 

493
00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:00,370
in here and they've been really 
good as freshmen and you haven't

494
00:25:00,370 --> 00:25:02,450
seen them develop beyond what 
they were as freshmen. 

495
00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:05,730
You look at Taiwan Mullen who 
was you know, really, really 

496
00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:10,690
good as an as a freshman and 
Taiwan did not continue to 

497
00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:12,650
progress. 
You know, he lived on the 

498
00:25:12,650 --> 00:25:15,450
reputation of that and not 
saying that he didn't work hard,

499
00:25:15,450 --> 00:25:17,090
not saying that you know any of 
that. 

500
00:25:17,530 --> 00:25:20,770
It's just as a group, you 
haven't seen one group to where 

501
00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:23,330
it's like, wow, that defensive 
line has really gotten a lot 

502
00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:25,290
better this year. 
That linebacker group really has

503
00:25:25,290 --> 00:25:28,170
gotten better this year. 
Offensive line is really much 

504
00:25:28,170 --> 00:25:30,930
better than they were last year.
It's that player development 

505
00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:34,530
that I think has been missing 
and and it is what puts you in 

506
00:25:34,530 --> 00:25:40,090
this situation and you need to 
be able to to add talent and 

507
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:44,050
then build it and you could fill
in. 

508
00:25:44,370 --> 00:25:48,060
Look, it's it's no different 
than the NFLI mean, the NFL has 

509
00:25:48,060 --> 00:25:51,580
its draft and if you you have to
have solid pieces as part of 

510
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:55,020
your draft and then they develop
those players and then bring in 

511
00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:57,540
free agents to plug holes along 
the way. 

512
00:25:57,780 --> 00:26:01,420
But you can't depend on free 
agents to get to where you you 

513
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:03,140
need to go. 
You you have to have that 

514
00:26:03,140 --> 00:26:08,100
foundation and I feel like that 
foundation of players who had 

515
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:12,420
been in the program for a little
bit and you were successful. 

516
00:26:13,010 --> 00:26:15,970
A lot of that has been lost 
along the way because there has 

517
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:18,890
been OK, we need to to start to 
pull, pull guys in. 

518
00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:26,730
Can that give you the 
possibility of turning a program

519
00:26:26,730 --> 00:26:30,050
around a little bit faster 
because you have guys who 

520
00:26:30,050 --> 00:26:34,170
haven't been forced to develop 
while getting beat down with 

521
00:26:34,170 --> 00:26:37,490
heartbreaking losses or negative
energy that surrounds the 

522
00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:40,010
program. 
They're used to being successful

523
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:42,570
and playing in front of huge 
crowds and and and all that. 

524
00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:46,950
That's a possibility, but again,
until we see it on the field, 

525
00:26:47,070 --> 00:26:49,550
it's only a theory and and not 
something that we've seen in 

526
00:26:49,550 --> 00:26:51,350
practice. 
Yeah. 

527
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:55,750
Well, and I'm this is not that 
you just something you said like

528
00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:58,310
when you talk about like that 
you know the negative energy 

529
00:26:58,310 --> 00:27:00,190
like you know trying to get 
players who haven't had that. 

530
00:27:00,190 --> 00:27:02,230
Like to me it's like that 
really. 

531
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:04,270
Again, this is not directed at 
you, but when I do hear that 

532
00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:06,550
coming from the program, like it
totally rings hollow because 

533
00:27:06,550 --> 00:27:09,040
it's like. 
You the program like you guys 

534
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,600
solved that. 
Like in 2019 and 2020 you had 

535
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,040
two great seasons yet people say
it's the best coach in America. 

536
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,280
Like that was We had solved that
and then you just it all totally

537
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,840
regressed. 
And like count 2020. 

538
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,920
We're back in that count 2020, 
you can't count 2020. 

539
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:32,040
I don't know why I am convinced.
I am convinced Indiana does not 

540
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,400
beat Penn State in 2020. 
If there are fans there go back 

541
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,880
and watch that game and the way 
things and now these are 

542
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,120
obviously you know just 
hypotheticals of you know of 

543
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,800
whether somebody's going to was 
it would have been there or not 

544
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,880
but you know they beat Michigan 
at at home that year. 

545
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,280
Indiana fans are used to waiting
for the other shoe to drop 

546
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,160
they're they're waiting for it 
and when things are going going 

547
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,320
good and the team scores a 
touchdown we're like oh boy here

548
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,200
we go and and and I don't blame 
them and I I don't knock fans 

549
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,600
for that that's historically 
that's what it would has been 

550
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:09,370
energy in a building impacts 
players both positively and 

551
00:28:09,370 --> 00:28:14,530
negatively So 29 where where my 
biggest thing is 2021. 

552
00:28:15,090 --> 00:28:17,370
And that's real quick, I'll, 
I'll take you to I. 

553
00:28:17,910 --> 00:28:20,150
Right because I I'm going to be 
more negative moving for us. 

554
00:28:20,150 --> 00:28:22,550
I want to I want to defend I U 
football for a bit. 

555
00:28:22,830 --> 00:28:26,470
I I hear you but I would say 
that you know they did play the 

556
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:28,110
like they play those games. 
They played in the same 

557
00:28:28,110 --> 00:28:31,190
circumstances I think and like 
the Michigan game we we 

558
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:34,390
manhandle Michigan in that game.
Like I I think I I hear you I've

559
00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:36,990
been at all those Michigan 
losses but I think that was a 

560
00:28:36,990 --> 00:28:41,230
game where like we that was one 
that Michigan game I I just the 

561
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:43,070
Penn State one we can discuss 
the Michigan one. 

562
00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:46,070
I remember thinking like we look
like the better team, like we 

563
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:47,830
just look like we were the team 
that was. 

564
00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:50,070
Aggressive, you know, eager to 
get there. 

565
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:56,070
So I I hear you, but it's like I
I do like 2020 still happen. 

566
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:57,390
They played those games. 
Like, those are the 

567
00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:59,070
circumstances everybody had to 
play under. 

568
00:28:59,310 --> 00:29:01,070
Oh, Oh no. 
And I and I completely agree. 

569
00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:03,350
I I completely agree. 
You do count it. 

570
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:07,350
But in terms of you had the 
problem solved in 2020, to me 

571
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:11,020
that was a little bit different 
because that that home and away 

572
00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:14,020
advantage or disadvantage was 
everybody was on a level playing

573
00:29:14,020 --> 00:29:17,380
field for that year. 
It was in 2021 I think where 

574
00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:21,940
there was a real issue because 
of the fact that you had think 

575
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:26,180
about it, you had nobody was 
able to come to a home, a home 

576
00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:30,020
game for all of 2020. 
So that means that the entire 

577
00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:33,020
freshman class that were then 
sophomores and the entire 

578
00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:37,140
incoming freshman class of 
everybody on campus hadn't 

579
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:42,340
experienced that negativity in 
in in in the way the the the 

580
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:45,740
energy that we all know is is 
part of the equation. 

581
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:49,060
And then Indiana just dropped 
the ball. 

582
00:29:49,180 --> 00:29:53,380
They just had a terrible year 
and then everybody who had 

583
00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:56,420
missed out on the that year of 
games and the the incoming 

584
00:29:56,420 --> 00:30:00,100
freshman all that they they got 
a chance to go oh okay this is 

585
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,060
you know this is what it's what 
happens here and I don't know 

586
00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:06,860
that we've we've recovered from 
that players have to play fans 

587
00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:10,140
you know it and their their 
energy I you know doesn't make 

588
00:30:10,140 --> 00:30:13,260
you not know who you're supposed
to cover on 3rd and eight you 

589
00:30:13,260 --> 00:30:19,060
know that that that is a a 
player thing but I it just you 

590
00:30:19,060 --> 00:30:23,220
have to find a way to start to 
string together wins find an 

591
00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:26,420
upset teams upset Ohio State all
the time. 

592
00:30:26,420 --> 00:30:29,460
Teams are upset around the 
country all the time. 

593
00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:34,700
It's sad because you have Ohio 
State to open the season and 

594
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:38,700
every fan that that is is 
watching the program goes up. 

595
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:41,900
We open oh and one and 
understandably so. 

596
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:44,860
That has been the history of it.
At some point that team has to 

597
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:47,300
step up. 
Indiana has to step up and put 

598
00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:49,820
it together and say this is 
going to be different. 

599
00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:53,540
That is one thing that they did 
in 2019 that did leak over to 

600
00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:56,020
2020 that this is going to be 
different. 

601
00:30:56,020 --> 00:30:58,140
It is not going to be like this 
anymore. 

602
00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:02,950
And I feel like the past two 
years have kind of robbed a 

603
00:31:03,150 --> 00:31:07,470
whole bunch of momentum from 
from that kind of attitude 

604
00:31:07,470 --> 00:31:10,190
because who do you have that's 
going to be able to step up? 

605
00:31:10,190 --> 00:31:11,750
It's going to have to be 
somebody for that. 

606
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:13,590
That hasn't been a part of the 
program the last couple of 

607
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:18,510
years. 
And that 2021 season is still, 

608
00:31:19,230 --> 00:31:21,990
you know, it's baffling to me 
because I went to the Iowa game 

609
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:24,070
that was, you know, that was 
crushing. 

610
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:27,030
But it's like, by the way, you 
know, that's a tough place to 

611
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:28,870
play. 
A lot of good teams have lost at

612
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:30,390
Iowa. 
You beat Idaho. 

613
00:31:30,510 --> 00:31:33,510
You come back at that game 
against Cincinnati that the home

614
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:36,550
game, and you know that game was
really close. 

615
00:31:36,550 --> 00:31:38,590
Like the score doesn't totally 
show up, like that game was 

616
00:31:38,590 --> 00:31:39,470
close. 
And then? 

617
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,680
You know, I'm trying to 
remember, I'm 45 now, so I'm 

618
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,560
getting up there was like it was
I think the Michael McFadden 

619
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,120
targeting call when it kicks out
of the game in like the second 

620
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,200
quarter and it it felt like at 
that point it was like, all 

621
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,320
right, well that's that's the 
game. 

622
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,560
It's like losing one guy cannot.
Like, you know, I'm not saying 

623
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,120
that's what happened, but like 
the the team just kind of folded

624
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,440
at that point and then but you 
still win. 

625
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,530
You beat Western Kentucky. 
You get smoked at Penn State, 

626
00:32:02,530 --> 00:32:04,290
that's fine. 
You come back and you're playing

627
00:32:04,290 --> 00:32:06,690
Michigan State, who's ranked 
like 9th at the time or 

628
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:07,850
finished. 
You know they they were a good 

629
00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:10,290
team that year. 
You only lose by 5. 

630
00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:15,290
That was also a very close game 
and then it's just like you're 

631
00:32:15,290 --> 00:32:18,650
done, like at that point. 
Then the team just, I I guess 

632
00:32:18,650 --> 00:32:21,250
they were close in that Maryland
game, although it never felt 

633
00:32:21,290 --> 00:32:22,930
that was one of where the score 
feels. 

634
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,760
The game was not closer, but 
then you just kind of gave up 

635
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,600
the rest of the year. 
And I don't know that that 2021 

636
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,360
year is always going to be 
baffling to me because there's a

637
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,880
world where they beat Cincinnati
and they beat Michigan State and

638
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,480
maybe you're able to turn things
around. 

639
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,680
But like at those key moments, 
you know, that's that's 

640
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,280
something here that again I'm, 
I'm trying my best to be 

641
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560
positive, but it's like at these
key moments where you have these

642
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,080
inflection points outside of 
2020. 

643
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:55,770
Where you know that the panics 
thing goes right and you're able

644
00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:57,890
to beat down Michigan and like, 
you know, panics gets hurt, but 

645
00:32:57,890 --> 00:32:59,810
you're able to get a win at 
Wisconsin. 

646
00:33:00,170 --> 00:33:03,130
All these other moments, you 
know it, we seem to make the 

647
00:33:03,130 --> 00:33:06,130
wrong decision. 
Even 2019, it's like, oh man, 

648
00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:07,610
the Gator ball. 
It's like, well, the Gator ball 

649
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:10,450
was like you made a really bad 
special teams decision. 

650
00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:12,770
You know, as a coaching staff, 
you were not prepared. 

651
00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:14,890
You let Tennessee get back. 
You had that game. 

652
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:16,530
You let Tennessee get back into 
it. 

653
00:33:16,530 --> 00:33:19,170
You made a lot of bad decisions 
in those games. 

654
00:33:19,410 --> 00:33:22,170
There's just a lot of a lot of 
mismanagement. 

655
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,240
That that leads to kind of going
taking the wrong turn in the 

656
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,960
choose Your own adventure that 
is the I U football season. 

657
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Every single time. 
Yeah, I know. 

658
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,560
And that is that has long been 
the case too. 

659
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,440
I mean every time you have an 
opportunity to to, to 

660
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,640
breakthrough, to get done, get 
something right. 

661
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,520
If things can go your way, they 
just haven't for for multiple 

662
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,440
reasons. 
Look at the game, that bowl game

663
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,720
against Tennessee. 
Indiana had been lining up like 

664
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,000
that on kickoffs for a long 
time. 

665
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Then it was just something that 
Tennessee saw. 

666
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,480
That wasn't even a decision. 
It was just something that 

667
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Tennessee saw and took advantage
of and and they were there. 

668
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Still, if you are, you know, a 
coaching staff, you have to be 

669
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,440
able to see that yourself. 
Because one of the things that 

670
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:09,000
Kevin Wilson used to do, I know 
he would go into his defensive 

671
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,440
meetings and they would you know
show the game plan and then he 

672
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,000
would explain to them how he 
would beat them. 

673
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,600
And so as a special teams you 
have to look at your own own 

674
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:24,199
your own film and say if I was 
an opposing guy, how would I 

675
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:26,560
beat you? 
How would I, how would I beat us

676
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,920
and then adjust accordingly. 
So so that to me is something 

677
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,920
that is I, you want to see 
Indiana start to pull things 

678
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,560
together at some point. 
At some point it has to and it I

679
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,280
mean it, it has to, doesn't mean
it's going to be this year. 

680
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,429
But at at some point things have
to come together. 

681
00:34:45,429 --> 00:34:48,150
I think, I think, I think I had 
previously looked it up and I 

682
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:51,870
think since Indiana last beat, 
since Indiana had last gone to 

683
00:34:51,870 --> 00:34:53,150
the Rose Bowl, that's what it 
was. 

684
00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:57,510
Since Indiana had last gone to 
the Rose Bowl, only every other 

685
00:34:57,510 --> 00:35:01,750
team except for, I want to say 
Minnesota and possibly 

686
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:06,710
Northwestern have gone twice 
since Indiana last went in their

687
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:10,190
one trip to the Rose Bowl. 
You know, over over all this 

688
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:14,440
time, a year has to come 
together at some point. 

689
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,600
And that starts not with and 
that doesn't start at the end of

690
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,280
the year. 
It starts with games like Ohio 

691
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,120
State this year to where things 
don't go wrong. 

692
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,280
You don't get stomped right out 
of the gate. 

693
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,120
You play with a chip on your 
shoulder. 

694
00:35:31,230 --> 00:35:33,230
That's something. 
No, I mean, and that's something

695
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:35,550
where, you know, no one is going
to predict we're going to beat 

696
00:35:35,550 --> 00:35:37,070
Ohio State. 
I'm not going to either. 

697
00:35:37,070 --> 00:35:40,350
But it's like, you know, to your
point on that stat, and I don't 

698
00:35:40,350 --> 00:35:42,310
have this. 
Galen has a great spreadsheet. 

699
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:44,670
I think he calls it the Bayou. 
Football history sucks or 

700
00:35:44,670 --> 00:35:47,390
something. 
But it's like, dude, every team 

701
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:49,510
in the Big 10 has been able to 
beat Ohio State. 

702
00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:52,030
Like, it's not like, you know, 
Purdue's gotten it done. 

703
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,440
I think Maryland's gotten it 
done. 

704
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,080
Rutgers got, got it done. 
I mean, Rutgers hasn't been in 

705
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,120
the big. 
Last time we beat them was, 

706
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,440
what, 86? 
It's like every other team in 

707
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,400
the Big 10. 
Peru doesn't play them every 

708
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,040
year, and then they've gotten it
done. 

709
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,880
Like at some point you just have
to go get a scalp and like you 

710
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,600
need to go beat Ohio State like 
it is. 

711
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,920
It's absurd. 
It's pathetic. 

712
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,440
And honestly, everyone in I U 
Athletics should take it as an L

713
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,040
and should be pissed off that 
it's like, why can't we get this

714
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,160
done? 
Like Alabama is really good. 

715
00:36:22,460 --> 00:36:25,660
Teams in the SEC beat Alabama 
once every decade like it 

716
00:36:25,660 --> 00:36:28,460
happens. 
And again, Ohio State is really 

717
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:29,380
good. 
I'm not saying it's going to 

718
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:32,700
happen this year, but it can't 
just be. 

719
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:36,060
You go 40 years without beating 
them like every other team is 

720
00:36:36,060 --> 00:36:40,620
able to figure it out, Get it 
done once a fucking decade. 

721
00:36:40,820 --> 00:36:42,940
And at some point you just have 
to do it. 

722
00:36:43,220 --> 00:36:47,580
You have to win a game you're 
not expected to win and you have

723
00:36:47,580 --> 00:36:51,770
to do it, you know, on the 
regular really to be honest with

724
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:53,330
you. 
I mean you know you you look at 

725
00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:57,890
the Indiana and it's March to 
six, that's every year it's a 

726
00:36:57,890 --> 00:37:00,530
March to six. 
How do we get six wins? 

727
00:37:01,130 --> 00:37:03,250
And it's it's it's all about 
that. 

728
00:37:03,250 --> 00:37:07,570
Well, you're going to have to be
able to on a year beat Michigan.

729
00:37:07,570 --> 00:37:09,290
You're going to have to be able 
to beat Penn State. 

730
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:11,090
You're going to have to be able 
to beat Wisconsin. 

731
00:37:11,090 --> 00:37:13,810
That's how you do it. 
That's how it, that's how you do

732
00:37:13,810 --> 00:37:14,970
it. 
And it ain't going to get 

733
00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:17,690
easier. 
You know, the expansion of the 

734
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:20,820
of the Big 10, it is not 
something that's in Indiana's 

735
00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:25,060
favor at all and so. 
Along the along these lines I'm 

736
00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:27,940
going to ask you a question and 
then I want to end with kind of 

737
00:37:27,940 --> 00:37:29,500
your, your overall take of I U 
football. 

738
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:33,580
But I ask you this so you you 
were doing A C stuff, so totally

739
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:35,060
fine. 
I had about 10 minutes to to do 

740
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:38,500
a little extra research. 
I found this topic because I've 

741
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:41,540
been thinking about this and I'm
I'm, I'm so tired of the 

742
00:37:41,540 --> 00:37:44,820
expectation being lowered for I 
U football where it's like, hey,

743
00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:46,740
this is, you know, you just got 
to just be happy with four or 

744
00:37:46,740 --> 00:37:49,030
five wins like. 
Because I I agree. 

745
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:51,030
We obviously are in agreement on
this and I think at some point 

746
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:52,550
you just have to have the 
expectations. 

747
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:55,790
Like this is what needs to 
happen at a program at the level

748
00:37:55,790 --> 00:37:58,990
we want to be at. 
Tom Allen has been the coach at 

749
00:37:58,990 --> 00:38:05,670
Indiana since 2017, Since 2017. 
There is only one other coach in

750
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:09,550
college football that has not 
won a ball game, but that coach 

751
00:38:09,550 --> 00:38:11,150
has been there the entire 
tenure. 

752
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:15,940
I I will say, I'll ask you I I 
have a zero, like a 1% chance 

753
00:38:15,940 --> 00:38:18,220
that you know the answer because
I had no idea who it was before 

754
00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:19,620
I started playing around with 
the numbers. 

755
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:24,060
Oh, I have no. 
But yeah, the answer is Brett 

756
00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:27,900
Brennan at San Jose State. 
It would. 

757
00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:30,580
It would be sick if I knew that 
off the top of my head, wouldn't

758
00:38:30,580 --> 00:38:31,900
it? 
That that'd be awesome, right? 

759
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:34,380
But I was, I was poking around. 
I was just kind of like, you 

760
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:37,260
know, who else has, you know? 
And yeah, he he has not won a 

761
00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:38,620
ball game. 
He's been the two bowl games. 

762
00:38:38,860 --> 00:38:40,900
Like Tom Allen lost a ball. 
He did win. 

763
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,280
Conference title in 2020 is the 
Mountain West but still want a 

764
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,040
conference title. 
But my point is I'm going to get

765
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,480
off this very quickly because 
there are contract things at AT 

766
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,480
that are real that Tom Allen is 
going to be the head coach of I 

767
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,760
U football next year. 
But this is where I would say to

768
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,920
anybody who who's listening, you
know with with I U athletics is 

769
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,520
like at some point you have to 
be serious about this and you 

770
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,080
can say that since 2017 every 
other school. 

771
00:39:08,690 --> 00:39:11,810
In college football has either 
won a ball game, won a 

772
00:39:11,810 --> 00:39:13,690
conference title or fired their 
coach. 

773
00:39:13,690 --> 00:39:16,250
And I'm not saying you fire 
coach, but like you just you've 

774
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:19,770
got to start doing those things 
and to the idea of like, hey, 

775
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:21,530
you know, things are different 
here, it's like, no, like 

776
00:39:21,730 --> 00:39:23,210
there's a lot of other schools 
that are bad. 

777
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:25,810
And like I went and looked, it's
like California, who by the way,

778
00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:28,450
just has kind of like stop 
playing football to the point 

779
00:39:28,450 --> 00:39:30,530
that they weren't wanted by any 
other conference. 

780
00:39:31,140 --> 00:39:34,260
They won the the Red Box Bowl in
2019. 

781
00:39:34,260 --> 00:39:37,980
Their coach has been there since
their coach Justin Wilcox has 

782
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:40,580
been there since 2017. 
So I just as I'm looking through

783
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:43,140
this, it's like we keep on going
on to these lists where it's 

784
00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:45,340
like it is, it's absurd we're 
there. 

785
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:48,220
I'm not calling for anything to 
happen with Tom Allen, but it's 

786
00:39:48,220 --> 00:39:52,380
like it is nuts that he's the 
longest one of you know, getting

787
00:39:52,380 --> 00:39:55,180
their longest tenured and just 
just not have a Ballwin. 

788
00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:57,460
Nothing. 
Ballwin is the end all be all 

789
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,600
but like at some point. 
It's wild that everyone else is 

790
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,800
getting those things done and 
we're not, but yet we're 

791
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,680
continuing to just do the same 
thing. 

792
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,760
Well yeah and and I get all 
where all that that frustration 

793
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,840
comes from. 
I look at Indiana from a big 

794
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,280
picture perspective in that how 
you plan is how do you get good 

795
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,120
and get good and sustain it over
time. 

796
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,400
And that is you make sure that 
you you have guaranteed three 

797
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,800
wins with your non conference. 
You find a way to win and get to

798
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,680
a bowl game. 
I don't care about winning the 

799
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,360
bowl game. 
That's not as important to me as

800
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,640
it is to a lot of other people. 
The reason being is because it 

801
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:45,080
is that one bowl game doesn't. 
Indiana's not at the point where

802
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,360
that makes a season of success 
or not. 

803
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,000
They're not at that step. 
Your step is to get to bowl 

804
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,360
games consistently, then win, 
but win some of those bowl 

805
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,560
games. 
If you win, that's great. 

806
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,720
But it's one game you you win 
and it's and it's essentially A 

807
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,880
meaningless game. 
You say for to fans, To fans, 

808
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,080
it's important recruits, they 
don't care. 

809
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,640
You you go to, you get to your 
bowl game you win. 

810
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:12,280
Then you start to be able to 
move up the ranks because you're

811
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,400
getting in better recruits 
because you're going to bowls 

812
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,520
year after year after year. 
You you keep winning. 

813
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,720
The crowds start coming and and 
showing up and and at a much 

814
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:21,520
higher level. 
The attitude of everybody. 

815
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,120
We've won these kind of games 
before. 

816
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,680
We're going to come back and and
win them. 

817
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,320
I'm now and that's how you 
build. 

818
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,640
Everybody wants it to happen 
right away and and I understand 

819
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,280
that everybody's itching. 
Indiana fans are dying for this 

820
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,910
program to be good. 
Not just good or, you know, a 

821
00:41:38,910 --> 00:41:42,830
flash in the pan or a happy 
story, but just be good to to to

822
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:46,870
beat a beat A-Team and not only 
beat some teams, but steamroll 

823
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:49,950
some teams along the way. 
This absolutely roll over them. 

824
00:41:50,270 --> 00:41:52,670
You know, Illinois comes in here
and it's 38 to three. 

825
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:55,230
You know, tear them up. 
And they did that a little bit 

826
00:41:55,230 --> 00:41:58,710
in 2019 and in some of those Tom
Allen early years when they were

827
00:41:58,710 --> 00:42:01,590
starting to, you know, hold 
teams under double digits or 

828
00:42:01,590 --> 00:42:04,750
halves a couple of shutouts a 
year, that that's what you want.

829
00:42:05,310 --> 00:42:08,660
It's unquestionably taken a step
back for a lot of different 

830
00:42:08,660 --> 00:42:12,900
reasons. 
But this year is such a question

831
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:16,660
mark to me because there are so 
many new faces and and it's just

832
00:42:16,660 --> 00:42:20,180
tough to to know what we're 
going to have and the team 

833
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:23,180
doesn't know either. 
That's The thing is the team 

834
00:42:23,180 --> 00:42:26,180
doesn't know what exactly it's 
going to look like when they're 

835
00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:28,740
actually playing other other 
opponents. 

836
00:42:28,740 --> 00:42:32,940
And and that to me is I don't 
understand how you could have 

837
00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:34,700
it. 
You know, solid player 

838
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:40,810
leadership, how you could have 
solid, you know, just just the 

839
00:42:40,810 --> 00:42:44,250
player aspect of it. 
Coach, led teams are great, but 

840
00:42:44,250 --> 00:42:47,650
at some point players have to 
take over and that to me is 

841
00:42:47,650 --> 00:42:52,850
going to be a challenge because 
you just don't have any stars to

842
00:42:52,850 --> 00:42:54,690
turn to. 
The leaders to turn to. 

843
00:42:55,010 --> 00:42:57,570
Aaron Casey is very good. 
I'm excited. 

844
00:42:57,570 --> 00:43:01,040
I'm hopeful for Cam Campers 
coming off an ACLI liked a lot 

845
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,800
of what I saw out of Josh 
Henderson last year. 

846
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,640
But it it's just it's those kind
of things that just make you 

847
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:12,160
just so uncertain about this 
year's team because there is no 

848
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,000
identity, there is no star and 
it's going to be up to somebody 

849
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,600
to be able to step up and and 
kind of separate themselves. 

850
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,600
So, you know, for as the season 
goes on. 

851
00:43:22,990 --> 00:43:24,510
Yeah. 
I mean and I know you're a fan I

852
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:27,430
I I will take, I will push back 
just on one thing. 

853
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:30,230
The idea like you know that I I 
think I U fans they do want it 

854
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:33,670
but I always bristle it like you
know they they want it right 

855
00:43:33,670 --> 00:43:36,430
away and it's like I I I 
understand the realities of 

856
00:43:36,430 --> 00:43:39,630
where we're at but it's like 
we're also in year seven. 

857
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:42,710
It's like I get, I get in 
Wilson's first year and it's 

858
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:45,350
like, but it's like that is 
something, it's not so much at 

859
00:43:45,350 --> 00:43:47,070
you, but it's like this is the 
like. 

860
00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:50,510
You you get, This is why we have
to be in Ohio State in 40, you 

861
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:52,270
know, 35 years. 
Like every year it's like, well,

862
00:43:52,270 --> 00:43:54,990
this obviously can't be the 
year, but you know, at some 

863
00:43:54,990 --> 00:43:56,990
point we want it. 
It's like, well, but then every 

864
00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:59,830
year just it becomes like the 
calendar pages just keep it like

865
00:43:59,830 --> 00:44:01,790
a cartoon. 
They just keep changing and it's

866
00:44:01,790 --> 00:44:05,470
like at some point I do want it 
soon because like I'm 45, man. 

867
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:08,580
Like my back's starting to hurt.
I wake up neck pain like I'm 

868
00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:11,420
getting older. 
I I haven't seen a ball win 

869
00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:15,900
since you know 1991 and again 
ball wins aren't the end all be 

870
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:19,460
all but I've only seen you know 
7 or 8 balls in my lifetime. 

871
00:44:19,460 --> 00:44:22,500
I haven't seen a Big Ten title 
game like I I haven't gone to 

872
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,180
the Rose Bowl like that is 
officially no longer a thing. 

873
00:44:25,180 --> 00:44:27,300
Like we missed out on that like 
you know it was only around for 

874
00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:31,540
125 years can like you got to 
give it some time like that's. 

875
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:35,820
That is where I just like I I 
hear you and so that this goes 

876
00:44:35,820 --> 00:44:39,500
into expectations for this year 
which I I'm curious what your 

877
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:43,420
thought is because I it's such a
hard question to answer because 

878
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:46,220
there's to me, I look at it like
there's two ways like there's 

879
00:44:46,220 --> 00:44:50,460
the realistic like well you're 
coming off of you know A0IN Big 

880
00:44:50,460 --> 00:44:53,300
10 season in 2021, two wins last
year. 

881
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:56,220
You know, to say we're going to 
go seven, you know, seven and 

882
00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:58,540
six and go to a bowl game like 
that's, that's a big. 

883
00:44:59,020 --> 00:45:01,460
That's a big upgrade and we're 
going to win four Big 10 game. 

884
00:45:01,460 --> 00:45:04,060
That's asking a lot. 
So in the reality is that you're

885
00:45:04,060 --> 00:45:06,540
probably looking at three to 
four wins overall, maybe, you 

886
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:10,100
know, two Big Ten wins. 
The other way to look at it is 

887
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:12,220
again, like the idea of like, 
hey, we're in year seven, man. 

888
00:45:12,220 --> 00:45:16,900
Like in 2019-2020 they happened 
like you did have eight wins. 

889
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:19,740
You had six wins, like you went 
to back-to-back balls like you 

890
00:45:19,740 --> 00:45:21,540
were building something, you 
know? 

891
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,000
The narrative of 20/21 was like,
hey man, this is a blip. 

892
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,240
Like things went, things went 
off the rails like we're coming 

893
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:31,640
right back to me. 
The blip is then like when you 

894
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,800
look at like, I mean it's not 
the best comp because of what's 

895
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,400
going on. 
But like you look at like Pat 

896
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,680
Fitzgerald's tenure under 
Northwestern, just his coaching,

897
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,080
nothing related to what's 
happened. 

898
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,600
And I know he's got fired, but 
it's like he was that, you know,

899
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,880
go to a couple bowls and have a,
you know have a three win season

900
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,970
that he'd come back and like. 
Win 8 games. 

901
00:45:48,970 --> 00:45:51,250
And so, like, that's where I 
have a hard time with the 

902
00:45:51,250 --> 00:45:52,890
narrative of like, hey, we're 
really good. 

903
00:45:53,010 --> 00:45:55,770
We we move the floor, but now we
suck. 

904
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:57,250
That's a blip. 
And then all of a sudden it's 

905
00:45:57,250 --> 00:46:00,610
like, oh, we're rebuilding. 
And so I'm I'm not sure there's 

906
00:46:00,610 --> 00:46:02,610
a part of me where it's like, 
hey, man, the expectation should

907
00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:06,170
be eight wins this year just 
because, like you, we raised the

908
00:46:06,170 --> 00:46:07,490
floor. 
But I think realistically, it's 

909
00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:09,410
probably 3:00 to 4:00. 
But I I'm curious. 

910
00:46:09,410 --> 00:46:14,720
Your thoughts? 
Well you know I I expectations 

911
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:18,800
are are tough with with this 
program and and with foot with 

912
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,560
college football in particular 
and especially with Indiana 

913
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,920
because of the fact. 
That I mean, I mean it's they're

914
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,800
tough because you know, you 
mentioned, you know, 2020 or 

915
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,080
2019. 
None of these kids this year 

916
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,120
give a damn about 2020. 
They don't care at all about 

917
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,240
2019. 
Like, you know, most of them 

918
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:40,040
weren't part of those teams. 
You know, some of them were, but

919
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,720
you know, most of them weren't 
even a part of it. 

920
00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:44,260
And so they've moved on from 
that. 

921
00:46:44,580 --> 00:46:47,900
Fans and media haven't. 
And I'm not saying that we 

922
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:51,340
should, but I'm saying that 
that, you know, for players, 

923
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:55,180
especially players that come in 
for this season that are 

924
00:46:55,180 --> 00:46:57,540
transferred in, they don't care 
what happened last year. 

925
00:46:57,540 --> 00:47:00,260
And then furthermore in their 
minds it's not going to happen 

926
00:47:00,260 --> 00:47:04,760
again because they are here now.
And that's why I I tell, I tell 

927
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,640
people that all the time that 
when a team goes to a bowl like 

928
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,760
we've seen Indiana go to a bowl 
and it doesn't positively it it,

929
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,480
then they have a tough season it
they don't have people suddenly 

930
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,800
leaving the the you know, 
decommitting. 

931
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,160
The reason is there isn't a kid 
that has been recruited ever 

932
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,720
that thinks I'm going to go 
there and continue to lose. 

933
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,440
Not a single one. 
And furthermore, if he does have

934
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,790
that attitude, he shouldn't be 
playing football, You know, 

935
00:47:33,790 --> 00:47:34,910
plain and simple. 
No, you're right. 

936
00:47:35,070 --> 00:47:36,550
They all come in like I'm 
changing it. 

937
00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:39,030
It's when you get into the 
day-to-day so. 

938
00:47:39,710 --> 00:47:41,390
Everyone's the hero of their own
movie. 

939
00:47:41,390 --> 00:47:44,750
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 
And so you know those 

940
00:47:44,750 --> 00:47:48,710
expectations. 
It's tough. 

941
00:47:49,090 --> 00:47:51,330
And what do I expect out of 
Indiana this year? 

942
00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:54,330
Well, they won two games two 
years ago. 

943
00:47:54,330 --> 00:47:56,970
They won four games last year. 
So this year should be 8. 

944
00:47:57,010 --> 00:47:59,410
If they keep getting twice as 
good as they were last year, 

945
00:47:59,410 --> 00:48:01,810
it's going to be 8 and four. 
It's going to be quite amazing 

946
00:48:02,330 --> 00:48:06,850
to watch. 
It down and the expectations, I 

947
00:48:06,850 --> 00:48:11,410
I literally have none because I 
don't know what this team is, 

948
00:48:11,410 --> 00:48:15,270
what this program is. 
Could they be a team that you 

949
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:19,190
know wins are non conference 
game steals a big 10 game build 

950
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:22,910
some momentum the the new guys 
really gel and help out and and 

951
00:48:22,910 --> 00:48:25,910
score some wins. 
Yeah they could be could they be

952
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:28,230
a team that never get it 
together and it's some injuries 

953
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:30,630
take some people down and 
quarterbacks never develop. 

954
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:35,670
Yeah they could it this is a 
blank page and that in year 

955
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:39,950
seven is a is a concern. 
I mean, it really is because you

956
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:43,990
don't have a direction for the 
program, but the head coach who 

957
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:49,950
has been here for a while, he's 
trying to do something to try to

958
00:48:49,950 --> 00:48:51,830
fix the the problems he's 
trying. 

959
00:48:51,830 --> 00:48:53,950
He's throwing everything against
the wall and seeing what stick 

960
00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:58,350
and you know at at the very 
least he isn't doubling down on 

961
00:48:58,350 --> 00:49:01,110
on what he's he's done before. 
I give him credit for that. 

962
00:49:01,110 --> 00:49:04,270
But also the clock is ticking 
and when you like you say you've

963
00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:07,710
been here for seven years, 
stability is extremely important

964
00:49:07,950 --> 00:49:12,110
for a coaching staff and for a 
program. 

965
00:49:12,730 --> 00:49:18,050
Tom Allen has has been that 
stabilizing, you know force over

966
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:23,130
the years, but it's also results
oriented game and so you have to

967
00:49:23,130 --> 00:49:25,690
start seeing some real progress,
real, real soon. 

968
00:49:27,290 --> 00:49:30,010
I want to see a better team and 
I want to see a better team in 

969
00:49:30,010 --> 00:49:32,490
November than we see in 
September and that isn't 

970
00:49:32,490 --> 00:49:33,730
something that we've often seen 
here. 

971
00:49:34,970 --> 00:49:36,370
That's, that's a great point. 
No, you're right. 

972
00:49:36,370 --> 00:49:41,450
And that we, I mean I would say 
20/20/2019 and 20/20 were the 

973
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:45,050
last two years we saw that. 
Yeah, that's a great point we 

974
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:46,770
haven't seen in two years. 
Hopefully we do. 

975
00:49:47,130 --> 00:49:50,450
The last thing I'll say about 
the Ohio State game is, you 

976
00:49:50,450 --> 00:49:53,530
know, it feels like we we open 
our season with them way too 

977
00:49:53,530 --> 00:49:57,050
much. 
But you know that that 2017 game

978
00:49:57,570 --> 00:50:01,170
was an August 31st game. 
You know the final score is 2949

979
00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:03,370
to 21, but that that game was 
really close. 

980
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:07,310
Through halftime it's it's not 
it's not it's not a win but it's

981
00:50:07,310 --> 00:50:09,430
not nothing. 
But you know like and there you 

982
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:13,550
know we played you know October 
3rd in 2015 we played Ohio State

983
00:50:13,550 --> 00:50:16,070
that was 3427. 
Still relatively early in the 

984
00:50:16,070 --> 00:50:19,590
season like there's there's a 
world We've played Ohio State 

985
00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:22,870
pretty good in some of these 
early games at least early on 

986
00:50:23,390 --> 00:50:24,510
there. 
There's a world where you can 

987
00:50:24,510 --> 00:50:27,070
just catch them maybe way off 
guard. 

988
00:50:28,110 --> 00:50:31,870
I I don't know I'm just like 
that I I go back to the at some 

989
00:50:31,870 --> 00:50:34,250
point you just got to. 
Find a way to do something 

990
00:50:34,250 --> 00:50:37,330
different at some point. 
You can't have so many Goliaths 

991
00:50:37,370 --> 00:50:39,450
in in the conference because 
unfortunately you're right. 

992
00:50:39,450 --> 00:50:41,970
Like the conference is going to 
change and getting out of the 

993
00:50:41,970 --> 00:50:44,170
East seems like it's a good 
thing, but it's like you're just

994
00:50:44,170 --> 00:50:46,410
picking up other good teams like
it just doesn't. 

995
00:50:46,770 --> 00:50:47,930
It's never going to get any 
easier. 

996
00:50:48,210 --> 00:50:50,810
Let me let me bring up Ohio 
State in 2020. 

997
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:53,810
Indiana almost won that ball 
game. 

998
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:56,810
Yeah, what was his halftime 
score? 

999
00:50:59,350 --> 00:51:02,190
We were. 
It was 28, seven, it was 28 

1000
00:51:02,190 --> 00:51:04,430
seven. 
They were down 35 to seven in 

1001
00:51:04,430 --> 00:51:07,190
the third quarter. 
Indiana rallied and that was 

1002
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:10,750
great. 
But they also were down 35 to 7 

1003
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:16,190
before before they bounced back.
And so that one again, even if 

1004
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:19,030
you know here you are, no fans 
and they did late in eight now. 

1005
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:21,590
They rallied and that was great.
Panics was fantastic. 

1006
00:51:21,870 --> 00:51:26,190
They did a nice job and he also 
threw a pick that without that 

1007
00:51:26,190 --> 00:51:28,970
pick, you know it it it could be
a different game. 

1008
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:32,250
There's a lot of ifs and wins. 
But it's easy to forget that 

1009
00:51:32,290 --> 00:51:36,370
Indiana was down 35 to 7 in that
ball game and and came back. 

1010
00:51:36,490 --> 00:51:40,250
Whether Ohio State let off the 
gas a little bit, whatever it 

1011
00:51:40,250 --> 00:51:44,050
was, it was still a hell of a 
game and Indiana nearly pulled 

1012
00:51:44,050 --> 00:51:46,450
it out. 
But they still had dug 

1013
00:51:46,450 --> 00:51:49,610
themselves a hell of a hole at 
at that point. 

1014
00:51:49,610 --> 00:51:52,290
And so these, these are the 
things that again, as seasons go

1015
00:51:52,290 --> 00:51:55,010
on, like you say, these games 
become a blur. 

1016
00:51:55,010 --> 00:51:59,140
And you remember that final, 
that Penn State game in 2020, 

1017
00:51:59,540 --> 00:52:02,140
You know that was a roller 
coaster as well, that Indiana 

1018
00:52:02,220 --> 00:52:05,980
almost choked that one away. 
You know, if you remember what, 

1019
00:52:05,980 --> 00:52:10,180
what the score was with that, 
I'm pulling that up right now. 

1020
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:13,940
That one was a roller coaster, 
but. 

1021
00:52:13,980 --> 00:52:16,660
And. 
Again, like again, the W, the W 

1022
00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:18,140
counts. 
But that was one where, like, I 

1023
00:52:18,140 --> 00:52:20,740
think had that Penn State 
running back just scored. 

1024
00:52:20,820 --> 00:52:22,910
The game is over, yeah. 
He took a knee. 

1025
00:52:22,910 --> 00:52:25,910
I guess it was like end of the 
fourth quarter, like they made a

1026
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:28,790
very tactical mistake. 
Indiana's up 10 at halftime and 

1027
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:31,950
then stops playing defense. 
I mean that's it gave up seven 

1028
00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:34,630
points in the first half and 28 
in the second-half, so. 

1029
00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:38,770
Yeah, no. 
Well, I I think I like what you 

1030
00:52:38,770 --> 00:52:40,130
said. 
Like I just want to see us play 

1031
00:52:40,130 --> 00:52:43,650
better at the end of the year 
and just make us feel like we're

1032
00:52:43,650 --> 00:52:45,930
pointed in the right direction. 
But can you you get to deal with

1033
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:50,090
all the fans after every game? 
I I love being their therapist. 

1034
00:52:50,210 --> 00:52:53,090
I know you, I really do I20. 
Years now, right? 

1035
00:52:53,170 --> 00:52:57,340
It it's this is going to be my 
12th year doing it I think and 

1036
00:52:57,540 --> 00:53:02,100
12th or 13th. 
And I thoroughly enjoy it and I 

1037
00:53:02,100 --> 00:53:04,940
I thoroughly enjoy the 
relationships that we have with 

1038
00:53:04,940 --> 00:53:07,260
the the people that call in 
because the people call in and 

1039
00:53:07,260 --> 00:53:10,100
sometimes you hear them and you 
just got to let them go because 

1040
00:53:10,100 --> 00:53:12,660
they got their wife doesn't want
to hear it anymore man they 

1041
00:53:12,660 --> 00:53:14,260
don't. 
And especially at like a night 

1042
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:17,460
game you know they're they're 
you know they she, she doesn't 

1043
00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:21,670
want to hear it And so they call
me and and you know our our 

1044
00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:25,270
cohost whether it's going to be,
you know whoever it's been over 

1045
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:26,630
the years we've had Austin 
Render. 

1046
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:28,630
We've had Joe Smith, we've had 
Jeremy Gray. 

1047
00:53:29,390 --> 00:53:33,750
You know, we we've had a number 
of people do it and it it's, but

1048
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:36,190
it's it's fun and it's 
worthwhile and I think it's 

1049
00:53:36,990 --> 00:53:39,390
something I'm extremely proud to
be a part of. 

1050
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:41,120
Yep. 
No, you do. 

1051
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,720
You do a great job. 
I love listening to it on my 

1052
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:45,800
drive home and look forward to 
another. 

1053
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,880
I've still never called in, but 
I I do this. 

1054
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,480
This is my own thing too, too. 
My, I mean, we need everybody to

1055
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,240
call some of those nights. 
Boy, you can see they're getting

1056
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:56,480
blown out in the second-half and
you can see the tail lights 

1057
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:57,760
going. 
It's like, no, don't leave yet 

1058
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,080
guys, come on. 
We need you to call after fish 

1059
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,180
gets done. 
Oh, no, that's that's I call 

1060
00:54:03,180 --> 00:54:04,980
when I hit 465. 
Like, yeah, that's the whole 

1061
00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:07,340
thing is like I can listen to a 
couple calls and then get home. 

1062
00:54:07,340 --> 00:54:09,260
So there you go Ken. 
No, it's been great. 

1063
00:54:09,540 --> 00:54:11,340
I look forward to talking with 
you at the end of the season. 

1064
00:54:11,340 --> 00:54:14,020
Hopefully we have positive 
things to say. 

1065
00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:16,540
I hope so too. 
Thank you so much for having me 

1066
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:17,220
on. 
I appreciate it. 

1067
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:19,600
Oh man, dude, always a great 
time. 

1068
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,040
I'm happy you're getting some 
A/C. 

1069
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,080
Hope the air is cool. 
And hope the air is cool where 

1070
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,600
you guys are listening. 
Thank you guys so much for 

1071
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,200
listening. 
We will continue getting ready 

1072
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,160
for the season coming up in a 
couple of weeks. 

1073
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,640
I want to thank everyone for 
listening for for Ken Scott for 

1074
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,120
Crimson Cast signing off.