You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
Field Apparel. Hi folks, welcome back to
Crimson Cast for continuing our great football coverage.
Getting ready for the season. We're two weeks out.
I'm excited to have Ken Beikoff on.
We have some good stories about what he's going through.
Before we get to that, just real quick, want to say a shout out
to our friends at Home Field Apparel, who are sponsors of the
program and the whole home network?
Check it out, man. They have Bomber Jackets, which
it kind of started with. The I U Jacket, which I have,
It's awesome. The I U Bomber Jacket that they
now have, They're dropping Virginia Tech, Florida State,
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They have a whole new collection of University of Illinois
Chicago Fired up the Flames, which it's great for this time
of year because it's super hot. So go check them out.
Home field apparel use promo code home for 15% off your first
purchase. So I was joking about Ken.
He is definitely fired up because he's having some A/C
issues this week. A bad week for no A/C, but
excited to have Ken on. He's the Pigs podcast host.
Also author of the best selling book, Hoosier Beginnings.
Most importantly for football, he is one of the hosts of the
postgame call in show at the end of the game, so he gets to hear
all of the ire of everybody who's calling in.
But we try and do this every year, beginning and end of the
season. Ken, it's great to have you on
my friend. Thrilled to be on, and thrilled
that my air conditioner is up running, at least temporarily.
Hopefully we'll get more people out here to look at it tomorrow
to make sure that we don't have a problem.
But you know, it's it's. A first world problem, to say
the least. So I'm, I'm, we're, we're just
trying to fight it through and teaching Nick and Charlie my
sons how to how to battle through adversity a little bit.
Yeah, it's it's a problem I would take the first world out
of. It's really, really hot out
there. So it's it's a real problem.
I I love the hot we we we went to Key West just a couple of
weeks ago at the start of July and it was 110 is heat index
every day there and it was fantastic.
The hotter the better, as far as I'm concerned.
No, I'm, I'm American. When I go to Europe, it's like I
need air conditioning. I need ice.
I'm not. I'm, I'm the ugly American.
No question about it. Well, no, it's it's, you know
we're two weeks away from football season.
I have so many things to hit on. I want to try and stay
relatively positive. But I'm going to start here with
this because something, you know, GAIL and I did a preview a
couple weeks ago We're it's it's so tough to put where we are in
context and every year is an important season.
It does feel like this is a very important season, the Tom Allen
era, but I was, I was thinking about it, you know, the last
time that we had a coach going into their 7th year at I U, it
was Bill Mallory in 1990. That year they went 6-5 and one
they went to the Peach Bowl they lost.
The last time before that was Lee Corso in 1979 and that that
was the team that went to the Holiday Bowl and kind of broke
the the bowl seal for Indiana or the bowl winning seal, I should
say. What I find interesting is in
both of those scenarios, it did feel like you kind of knew like
what Corsos team was building for at that time.
You know you felt like in by 1990 you kind of understood what
the Mallory era was and what kind of team you had.
You know with with where we're at now in the Tom Allen era, it
just doesn't feel like we're well sorted.
Like there's the there's kind of two paths of, you know, we we
were really good and that that's what we're we're building toward
this also like we've been really bad and are we there?
We're getting back like it. It feels very unsettled for a
spot where we've only been three times in the last, you know 40
years in I U. Football with having a coach at
seven years. Well I was thinking about
exactly this and that's the same thing the earlier today when I
was thinking about what we're going to talk about on here.
And that is if you were going to ask me, you know hey make some
predictions about this team. You know lay out this team, I I
can't help you. I I really can't because I have
no idea what we're going to see and and and yet you don't want
that to be the case this far into.
Somebody's tenure you get, you just don't you want to know what
the direction it is for for the program, where it's going and
instead what you have is so many new faces.
You have so many people who are are new to the program and and
certainly have seemed to have bought into the in the whole and
you know Leo thing. But that doesn't mean that
there's the culture that exists and that that to me is is kind
of the weird thing. Because you don't know what
we're looking at at quarterback, regardless of who it is, we have
no idea what we're what we're going to see there.
Offensive line was not good last year and most of those guys are
back. They they have to progress.
But that doesn't mean that that they're great.
Defense has been a mess. You've had Tom Allen be
successful in terms of Indiana history during his tenure and
yet six wins in the past two years.
And so this is a really, really important year for this coaching
staff because at some point you're going to have to say okay
what now? And so they needed more talent.
That was clear last year, brought in a ton of talent
during the offseason. Can everybody get up to speed?
That's that's a real question to me.
If, if they're going to be able to do that, you can look across
the parking lot and Mike Woodson's team and he did much
the same thing where he's bringing in a lot of new guys.
I feel differently about Mike Woodson because of that NBA
background where every year you have to have a bunch of new guys
come on and get him up to speed. He's used to that.
I don't know that that's something that Tom Allen has had
to deal with at this level, certainly.
You you the extra talent is really important.
But until they're on the field and they have any kind of
history with each each other, to me it it's it's tough to even
start to predict what they're going to see.
And we're not going to know after the first week either
because, hey, you get to start with Ohio State, So that is not
helpful to it. For an Indiana football program,
it never is. And it feels like we always open
with Ohio State. No, and I don't, I don't think
you're going to know anything until probably that Louisville
game or maybe even the Maryland game because you know, you play
Ohio State like you said, we're going to lose that.
You play Indiana State, you you better win that.
If you don't win that then it's we're we're done on you know
September 8th and and so it's like you're not going to know
anything until the 1st at least week 3 and even that's a neutral
site game like I'm I'm not quite sure where Louisville is that
that shouldn't be a bridge too far.
The other stat you know on the same idea of kind of where
things are at you know just quick plug to our friend Taylor
over a bite sized bison, a great substack to check out.
He had this great chart that shows you know lost and gain
snaps of Indiana this year by position, but also just teams in
the Big 10. And when you look at the number
of teams that you know, Indiana lost over 3000 snaps last year
by far and away the most of any team in the in the Big 10.
The only other team over 2000 snaps was Purdue which also
didn't have a great season and also had a coaching change where
you expect some turnover. Again, this goes back to the
point where I I'm, I'm, I'm trying to be optimistic because
I'm an I'm an optimist at heart and I want to see the team do
well. But there's a part where, again,
like when you're in year seven, you know, you look at all of
these other schools in the Big 10, they're hovering right
around 1012 hundred snaps lost to.
To be at a point where you're losing 3000 snaps, it feels like
we're kind of starting from Ground Zero again for the third
time in three years, and it's not a great place to be in.
No, it's not it. It really, really isn't.
And and to me, that's the challenge of all this.
Is that you're you're dealing with a program that should by
all, for all intents and purposes be really kind of have
that culture and direction and everything rolling, and instead
with so many people leaving, so many people coming in, you don't
have that direction. Because you you don't know okay
well. This is your group that you
could really rely on. This is what we're building
around. This is what there's a, you know
changes a change after change after change on the defensive
side of the ball. You have an offense that I goes
through quarterbacks like like nothing any other program goes
through. I mean it.
I'm, I can I look every down. And then a team will have this,
a guy will get hurt, and then the backup gets hurt and the
third Stringer has to come on. And Indiana, this is a regular
thing. That's how you end up with
Xander Diaman starting a bucket game.
You know, that's how you end up, you know with with going through
so many quarterbacks and now we go into this year and people are
are excited about the the faces that they haven't seen because
they haven't seen them yet. And and furthermore, we don't
know what they're going to do. I mean Taven Jackson.
If Taven Jackson's brother wasn't Trace, would people be as
high on him? I'm not I don't say this as a
knock against Haven. I I I I'm excited to see what he
is is able to bring to the field but I also and you know he's
well regarded. He went to Tennessee he came
here it's it's all great. I I'm thrilled that he's here
but would people be as excited about it.
Brandon Brendan Sorbsey, the same thing.
You know he he's a guy that's played a little bit but.
I, I, I, you know there's not a ton of you know working snaps
for him to work with. So regardless of how they play
they're still going to be freshmen who are getting their
feet wet and at Indiana it at the most important position in
in sports boy learning on the job is real real tough one.
Same for the fact that you also now these guys, unlike maybe
Connor Bay's like last year. Don't come into the season with
any kind of mental baggage of having to prove themselves or
overcome criticisms of the past. They're able to come in clean
and get that opportunity. So you know it.
It just really is it. It feels almost, and I don't
want to say an expansion program, that's not not exactly
how it is. But with so many new faces and
key guys leaving, this happens at at college programs around
the country. Guys leave transfer in, transfer
out. I get all that.
But at Indiana, there's there. You don't have that tradition of
history and six wins in the past two years.
It it, it makes you worry a little bit.
At least it does for me. Now you also say to yourself,
can it get worse? Well, I, I I don't know that we
won't. We won't know until October what
we're looking at. No.
And you're writing like that. The backup quarterback is always
the most popular because you don't know who they are.
But you you talked about us on your last Peaks Peaks podcast.
You know just dive into your thoughts on again another season
where Tom Allen just refuses to name a starting quarterback.
Like, I I I what I don't know here as I've talked to other
people about this is I don't know if it's you know, you're if
it's gamesmanship. I I would say this like you're
you're stupid. Like it's just like nobody
cares. Like you're not fooling anybody.
And like Ohio State may not even be game planning for Indiana at
all. It's like there's like hey
there's going to be a dude back there.
Just go ahead and sack him. Like I don't care what number
he's wearing. It's not like Ohio State or Ryan
Day is really worried about like who to scheme for.
It didn't work really well last year.
If it's not a if, it's not game planning, if you're not doing
some kind of cute thing, if you're really at a point where
like you don't know who your starter is, like it's also not a
great thing. And there is something that
comes to being like, hey man, like you're the starter.
Like you're running with the ones you're going to get.
Like the the receivers start to know what your ball feels like
to catch. Like there is something to that.
So that there's. I'm kind of nervous that we're
doing this all over again. It's the exact same thing I felt
last last year. I just don't know why.
I'm kind of answering my own question, but I will shut up and
let you talk. Like, I just don't know why you
don't just name a starter and especially you have two younger
quarterbacks. Like you're not going to be
hurting feelings here. You don't need.
It's not like one's a super high recruit that you need to you
know, coddle or something. It's just like, hey, name your
starter and you know, unfortunately the history of I U
is the backup's going to play because quarterbacks just, I
think I talked about a pod last year.
Like I went and looked. It's been like 14 years and a
lot of it's injury. A lot of it is just random bad
luck. But I think it's been one year
in the last like 14 years we've had a quarterback have like 90%
of the snap or something like that.
So I don't know. But what kind of re go over the
things you talked about in the pod?
Like your thoughts on this inability to name a starter
quarterback by Tom Allen? Well, it's not and it's also not
an Indiana centric thing. I mean they they they do this
all around and you know a lot of different programs do this very
thing to where they're going to wait until you know the the week
or you see who goes on the field.
I think it's silly. Look at the NFL names, their
starters. And you know who?
Who's going out there? Those guys know more about
football than anybody on the planet.
What? What are you going to do?
You know what? You name your starter and you
own it. This is our guy.
This is who who has won the battle.
He's our guy. He's going to, we're going to
have him out here and the team may know it.
And I understand that. You know what?
We're you know the team. If the team knows it, that's
fine. But it just seems silly.
It just seems like an extra little.
Thing for for people to to worry about.
You say this is our guy. He won the the quarterback
competition. Every week's a competition he's
he's the guy that that has won the job and so now we're going
to get behind him and this is what we're going to do and this
and and again privately you're doing that and I get that but it
just seems like, you know, mind games.
When you're your whether it's like Jim Harbaugh and not
publishing depth charts which I think depth charts are stupid
too but that's part of what you what you do And so yeah I mean
this whole thing of repeatedly during Tom Allen's time that's
one thing that I I I think is has been silly is is the half
pregnant with quarterbacks along the way to where we're going to
be this person. We're going to be this person.
We'll see. We'll find out on Saturday and
all that. You know what?
Say this is our guy, now beat us.
That's what I want your attitude to be.
Not not to to to play, you know, mind games that at the very
least publicly because again, it doesn't make the program look
great to me. Well, it's it's funny too that
you know the the one year that Alan was emphatic, he knew who
the starter was. It was 2021 with Pennex for
Pennex wasn't healthy and it's like maybe that wasn't the right
thing. And into the Harbaugh thing.
It's like I I hear you on that but it's like I'm I'm okay if
you want to do dumb cute stuff when you're also beating Ohio
State two years in a row and going to the, you know College
Football Playoff. Like there is a part where you
win two big 10 games in two years and it's like just how
about you go with like just coach like stop the cute stuff
do that you know. So you also mentioned something
in one of your other podcasts is concerning about the defense,
which I've you know going into this year.
I, I, I stand by it like we talked about all these other
things and then we get to November and we're in a spot.
We have a quarterback, you know, like Dexter Williams or you know
McConnell, McConnell, McCauley the year before or Zander deep
like you mentioned, where it's like we just have a quarterback
you can't throw. We can't scheme.
And then it's like, well what are we going to do?
Like we can't. We can't.
And like, so it quarterback is so important.
But you were talking about defense and it got me kind of
digging into the numbers and and I'm just going to rattle some
stats off for you that are kind of alarming when you look at
Indiana's rank in the Big 10. This is all based on Pro
Football focus. So one point of reference, but a
good one. Since 2017, here's where we've
ranked in the Big 10 on defense 10th, 12th, 10th, 7th, 9th and
13th. But when you look at our our
ranking the the Pro Football Focus like defensive ranking out
of 100 going from 2017 to to to 202286.578.977.875.571.465.4.
So our defense is statistically getting worse based on the
grading. Our rank is kind of fluctuating
in that 10 range. It's it's interesting because
Tom Allen came in as you know the defensive guy that's kind of
been that you know quietly what people I think just rant you
know think about this program just without really digging in
like oh he's a defensive guy. The defense gets the offense
that lets you down. It doesn't seem to be that case
and that's what I and it's you know I will end on this what I
you know this thing again with the quarterback it kind of you
see in the defense where Tom Allen you know tried to be head
coach and defensive coordinator didn't work so we hired
defensive coordinator and then last year he goes back to being
defensive coordinator and now he's kind of tentatively handed
off the reins. But it's like the defense has
just gotten steadily worse his entire time.
I'm trying not to just sit here and shit all over the program
and Tom Allen. But it's like when you when you
look at the numbers it's really hard to to see where any of this
improved. And then you you know like you
mentioned you basically like the secondary is just all new.
Like it is completely there's just no secondary from last
year. It it, it makes you wonder like
where are we going? And I I don't know.
The defense is is really kind of, I think is not being
mentioned enough out there as a real problem in a downward
trend. Well, ask Antoine Randall L what
it's like to play with a bad defense.
Ask him how he did in his bowl games with his bad defense
because he didn't go to one. And it Defense is everything and
defense is everything to Tom Allen.
And one thing that I give him credit is that, you know, you
could, you could look at it as a criticism of him.
He realized it wasn't working to be a head coach and defensive
coordinator. He ain't the first guy to try
that and have it not work out. Realize that his defense wasn't
working to his standards, so he wanted to step in.
And so he stepped in and did it and realize it's still a
problem. He isn't.
He's at the very least willing to try different things when he
recognizes that something isn't working and he isn't digging in
and doubling down and and and going that direction that that I
give him credit for. But there's no question that,
you know, the the struggles on defense are to me a far bigger
problem, far bigger problem than what Indiana has has dealt with
offensively because Indiana's had a ton of offensive problems.
But it's defense that is the issue.
And again, you have to. And again, I've mentioned this
all the time. You know Kelvin Sampson is a
dirty word in Bloomington. But Kelvin Sampson, he would say
you have to hang your hat on something.
Whether it's your rebounding team, you're a defensive team,
You shoot 3 pointers, you have to hang your hat on something.
You have to have an identity. And early on defense was the
identity of Tom Allen's football program and that has slowly
faded to the point that that we are where we were before Tom
Allen showed up. And so how do you fix that?
Well, he's trying everything. He's trying everything to get
and to get there and so I again I give him a ton of credit done
with that. It's not as if Tom Allen forgot
how to coach defense that that is important to me.
Now came Womack isn't here so that that also is another thing
that is is important because he was a big part of that time is
Tom Allen was being successful as a head coach.
But it it really is a matter of you got to fix this defense.
You you can't be when you can't have an offense that goes 3 and
out as much as they did last year and then have a defense
that is struggling, that is struggling, that is struggling
and again, who's the star on defense?
Who's the star on offense? I mean it it it that's the
struggle here that there has been so many different people.
Everybody got amazingly excited about Dexter Williams last year,
and we saw some nice things out of Dexter, who threw for 184
yards. You know, it's funny you you
mentioned that like I've been listening to stuff and I I
completed completed 34% of his passes.
Well, that's the thing. He completed 13 passes and we
took 38 attempts. And you know, we won that
Michigan State game. We basically ran the ball.
Michigan State also missed a bunch of field goals.
Like, you go look at our wins last year, there's a lot of like
that was the best possible outcome if you play that game 30
times. But anyway, you get the win.
But it's like, I'm with you on this and I hope Dexter Williams
comes back. I hope he's awesome, like more
power to him, but. It's like, there's this
revisionist history where it's like, man, Dexter was great and
like, man, if he didn't get injured, we're winning that
Purdue game. It's like, are we?
It's like, it's like, and so he comes back.
We're like, to me, he's as much of a question mark as everybody
else. We have a quarterback.
And we, we ran one kind of gimmicky game against Michigan
State that there's now a ton of film on.
So anyway, by I hear you, I'm starting to see that narrative
of like, wow, just, you know he's coming back in mid November
and that'll be great. It's like I that it's I hope
he's got. I hope it's great.
But it's like again this is all based on hope everybody looks at
the offense again. If you look starting, you run
through the games. Last year, Indiana open to an O
by beating Illinois 23 to 20, beating Idaho 3522.
After that, Western Kentucky scored thirty points against
Indiana. Cincinnati scored 45.
Nebraska scored 35, Michigan 31, Maryland 38, Rutgers only 24.
But we only scored 17. Gave up 45 to Penn State, 56 to
Ohio State. Beat Michigan State and still
gave up 31 points. Gave up thirty to Purdue.
So every single week you're running into defensive problems.
And so that is one thing that if you have a bunch of new faces,
you lose all these snaps. What did you lose?
Because especially on the defensive side of the ball, they
were terrible. That was not a good defense last
year. Not that the offense was good
either, but then you lose all these guys and lose all these
snaps. But it's not as if you were
losing these snaps for guys that just went, you know, 9:00 and
9:00 and 3:00 and they're really had a great year.
But it's that said it's it's hard because of the fact that
the guys that did have good years transferred on out and
that is they're right and actually I'm on I'm on the
players side with that 100% because whatever is better for
the players is as far as I'm concerned.
But it it to me it really is a struggle because you just can't
hang your hat on anything with this program right now.
No. And what you're right, like the
the people who you know it's not a great team last year, you
know, zero wins the year before. So there's there's the narrative
that you could say what you just did of, you know, like.
Those aren't great players that you know, what are you losing?
On the flip side, it's like, and I'm, I'm going to mess this stat
up, so I apologize. But Taylor Layman mentions on
one of the last podcast he had with Galen, it's it's something
like of the, you know, 50 or 60 upperclassmen currently on the
team, like only 12 or 13 were recruited by Indiana out of high
school. So like there's.
And and so I, I hear you and there is like, hey, that was a
bad secondary last year. So like let's get new people.
But the other side of the coin is like you know when when you
start going into the transfer port or you're getting those
people like we're not Ohio State, like we're not Penn
State, we're not getting the top tier.
We're getting a couple guys here or there.
And it's like people you know, bad situations other places, but
you know we're we're not the the best place on the street.
And so we're getting midlevel people in, Like when you look at
schools like Iowa and Wisconsin, you know?
Even what they're doing in Illinois, like the way that
you're building these programs that don't have a historical
amazing base like in Indiana, you know the way they're doing
is they're getting two and three star recruits and you're
building them into you know four or five star players.
You know, I just, I again, I don't know.
This is where like you're Tom Allen is a very tough spot
because you you're you're deep enough into your tenure, you box
yourself in and you haven't had a couple of good scenes.
You've got to turn stuff around very quickly.
I don't know how you do. This is why Indiana's a really
tough place to coach. But it's like the idea of like
we're just going to become like the portal place.
Like that's that's different when you're Mike Woodson and you
have real NIL dollars and you have connections and you're
getting five star portal guys and your basketball where two
guys can make a huge difference, you know, so I I hear you.
But like the other side of that coin is also frightening that
it's like why is there such little talent being pulled and
grown through our program? And yeah, it's a it's a great
question And and there have been multiple players that have come
in here and they've been really good as freshmen and you haven't
seen them develop beyond what they were as freshmen.
You look at Taiwan Mullen who was you know, really, really
good as an as a freshman and Taiwan did not continue to
progress. You know, he lived on the
reputation of that and not saying that he didn't work hard,
not saying that you know any of that.
It's just as a group, you haven't seen one group to where
it's like, wow, that defensive line has really gotten a lot
better this year. That linebacker group really has
gotten better this year. Offensive line is really much
better than they were last year. It's that player development
that I think has been missing and and it is what puts you in
this situation and you need to be able to to add talent and
then build it and you could fill in.
Look, it's it's no different than the NFLI mean, the NFL has
its draft and if you you have to have solid pieces as part of
your draft and then they develop those players and then bring in
free agents to plug holes along the way.
But you can't depend on free agents to get to where you you
need to go. You you have to have that
foundation and I feel like that foundation of players who had
been in the program for a little bit and you were successful.
A lot of that has been lost along the way because there has
been OK, we need to to start to pull, pull guys in.
Can that give you the possibility of turning a program
around a little bit faster because you have guys who
haven't been forced to develop while getting beat down with
heartbreaking losses or negative energy that surrounds the
program. They're used to being successful
and playing in front of huge crowds and and and all that.
That's a possibility, but again, until we see it on the field,
it's only a theory and and not something that we've seen in
practice. Yeah.
Well, and I'm this is not that you just something you said like
when you talk about like that you know the negative energy
like you know trying to get players who haven't had that.
Like to me it's like that really.
Again, this is not directed at you, but when I do hear that
coming from the program, like it totally rings hollow because
it's like. You the program like you guys
solved that. Like in 2019 and 2020 you had
two great seasons yet people say it's the best coach in America.
Like that was We had solved that and then you just it all totally
regressed. And like count 2020.
We're back in that count 2020, you can't count 2020.
I don't know why I am convinced. I am convinced Indiana does not
beat Penn State in 2020. If there are fans there go back
and watch that game and the way things and now these are
obviously you know just hypotheticals of you know of
whether somebody's going to was it would have been there or not
but you know they beat Michigan at at home that year.
Indiana fans are used to waiting for the other shoe to drop
they're they're waiting for it and when things are going going
good and the team scores a touchdown we're like oh boy here
we go and and and I don't blame them and I I don't knock fans
for that that's historically that's what it would has been
energy in a building impacts players both positively and
negatively So 29 where where my biggest thing is 2021.
And that's real quick, I'll, I'll take you to I.
Right because I I'm going to be more negative moving for us.
I want to I want to defend I U football for a bit.
I I hear you but I would say that you know they did play the
like they play those games. They played in the same
circumstances I think and like the Michigan game we we
manhandle Michigan in that game. Like I I think I I hear you I've
been at all those Michigan losses but I think that was a
game where like we that was one that Michigan game I I just the
Penn State one we can discuss the Michigan one.
I remember thinking like we look like the better team, like we
just look like we were the team that was.
Aggressive, you know, eager to get there.
So I I hear you, but it's like I I do like 2020 still happen.
They played those games. Like, those are the
circumstances everybody had to play under.
Oh, Oh no. And I and I completely agree.
I I completely agree. You do count it.
But in terms of you had the problem solved in 2020, to me
that was a little bit different because that that home and away
advantage or disadvantage was everybody was on a level playing
field for that year. It was in 2021 I think where
there was a real issue because of the fact that you had think
about it, you had nobody was able to come to a home, a home
game for all of 2020. So that means that the entire
freshman class that were then sophomores and the entire
incoming freshman class of everybody on campus hadn't
experienced that negativity in in in in the way the the the
energy that we all know is is part of the equation.
And then Indiana just dropped the ball.
They just had a terrible year and then everybody who had
missed out on the that year of games and the the incoming
freshman all that they they got a chance to go oh okay this is
you know this is what it's what happens here and I don't know
that we've we've recovered from that players have to play fans
you know it and their their energy I you know doesn't make
you not know who you're supposed to cover on 3rd and eight you
know that that that is a a player thing but I it just you
have to find a way to start to string together wins find an
upset teams upset Ohio State all the time.
Teams are upset around the country all the time.
It's sad because you have Ohio State to open the season and
every fan that that is is watching the program goes up.
We open oh and one and understandably so.
That has been the history of it. At some point that team has to
step up. Indiana has to step up and put
it together and say this is going to be different.
That is one thing that they did in 2019 that did leak over to
2020 that this is going to be different.
It is not going to be like this anymore.
And I feel like the past two years have kind of robbed a
whole bunch of momentum from from that kind of attitude
because who do you have that's going to be able to step up?
It's going to have to be somebody for that.
That hasn't been a part of the program the last couple of
years. And that 2021 season is still,
you know, it's baffling to me because I went to the Iowa game
that was, you know, that was crushing.
But it's like, by the way, you know, that's a tough place to
play. A lot of good teams have lost at
Iowa. You beat Idaho.
You come back at that game against Cincinnati that the home
game, and you know that game was really close.
Like the score doesn't totally show up, like that game was
close. And then?
You know, I'm trying to remember, I'm 45 now, so I'm
getting up there was like it was I think the Michael McFadden
targeting call when it kicks out of the game in like the second
quarter and it it felt like at that point it was like, all
right, well that's that's the game.
It's like losing one guy cannot. Like, you know, I'm not saying
that's what happened, but like the the team just kind of folded
at that point and then but you still win.
You beat Western Kentucky. You get smoked at Penn State,
that's fine. You come back and you're playing
Michigan State, who's ranked like 9th at the time or
finished. You know they they were a good
team that year. You only lose by 5.
That was also a very close game and then it's just like you're
done, like at that point. Then the team just, I I guess
they were close in that Maryland game, although it never felt
that was one of where the score feels.
The game was not closer, but then you just kind of gave up
the rest of the year. And I don't know that that 2021
year is always going to be baffling to me because there's a
world where they beat Cincinnati and they beat Michigan State and
maybe you're able to turn things around.
But like at those key moments, you know, that's that's
something here that again I'm, I'm trying my best to be
positive, but it's like at these key moments where you have these
inflection points outside of 2020.
Where you know that the panics thing goes right and you're able
to beat down Michigan and like, you know, panics gets hurt, but
you're able to get a win at Wisconsin.
All these other moments, you know it, we seem to make the
wrong decision. Even 2019, it's like, oh man,
the Gator ball. It's like, well, the Gator ball
was like you made a really bad special teams decision.
You know, as a coaching staff, you were not prepared.
You let Tennessee get back. You had that game.
You let Tennessee get back into it.
You made a lot of bad decisions in those games.
There's just a lot of a lot of mismanagement.
That that leads to kind of going taking the wrong turn in the
choose Your own adventure that is the I U football season.
Every single time. Yeah, I know.
And that is that has long been the case too.
I mean every time you have an opportunity to to, to
breakthrough, to get done, get something right.
If things can go your way, they just haven't for for multiple
reasons. Look at the game, that bowl game
against Tennessee. Indiana had been lining up like
that on kickoffs for a long time.
Then it was just something that Tennessee saw.
That wasn't even a decision. It was just something that
Tennessee saw and took advantage of and and they were there.
Still, if you are, you know, a coaching staff, you have to be
able to see that yourself. Because one of the things that
Kevin Wilson used to do, I know he would go into his defensive
meetings and they would you know show the game plan and then he
would explain to them how he would beat them.
And so as a special teams you have to look at your own own
your own film and say if I was an opposing guy, how would I
beat you? How would I, how would I beat us
and then adjust accordingly. So so that to me is something
that is I, you want to see Indiana start to pull things
together at some point. At some point it has to and it I
mean it, it has to, doesn't mean it's going to be this year.
But at at some point things have to come together.
I think, I think, I think I had previously looked it up and I
think since Indiana last beat, since Indiana had last gone to
the Rose Bowl, that's what it was.
Since Indiana had last gone to the Rose Bowl, only every other
team except for, I want to say Minnesota and possibly
Northwestern have gone twice since Indiana last went in their
one trip to the Rose Bowl. You know, over over all this
time, a year has to come together at some point.
And that starts not with and that doesn't start at the end of
the year. It starts with games like Ohio
State this year to where things don't go wrong.
You don't get stomped right out of the gate.
You play with a chip on your shoulder.
That's something. No, I mean, and that's something
where, you know, no one is going to predict we're going to beat
Ohio State. I'm not going to either.
But it's like, you know, to your point on that stat, and I don't
have this. Galen has a great spreadsheet.
I think he calls it the Bayou. Football history sucks or
something. But it's like, dude, every team
in the Big 10 has been able to beat Ohio State.
Like, it's not like, you know, Purdue's gotten it done.
I think Maryland's gotten it done.
Rutgers got, got it done. I mean, Rutgers hasn't been in
the big. Last time we beat them was,
what, 86? It's like every other team in
the Big 10. Peru doesn't play them every
year, and then they've gotten it done.
Like at some point you just have to go get a scalp and like you
need to go beat Ohio State like it is.
It's absurd. It's pathetic.
And honestly, everyone in I U Athletics should take it as an L
and should be pissed off that it's like, why can't we get this
done? Like Alabama is really good.
Teams in the SEC beat Alabama once every decade like it
happens. And again, Ohio State is really
good. I'm not saying it's going to
happen this year, but it can't just be.
You go 40 years without beating them like every other team is
able to figure it out, Get it done once a fucking decade.
And at some point you just have to do it.
You have to win a game you're not expected to win and you have
to do it, you know, on the regular really to be honest with
you. I mean you know you you look at
the Indiana and it's March to six, that's every year it's a
March to six. How do we get six wins?
And it's it's it's all about that.
Well, you're going to have to be able to on a year beat Michigan.
You're going to have to be able to beat Penn State.
You're going to have to be able to beat Wisconsin.
That's how you do it. That's how it, that's how you do
it. And it ain't going to get
easier. You know, the expansion of the
of the Big 10, it is not something that's in Indiana's
favor at all and so. Along the along these lines I'm
going to ask you a question and then I want to end with kind of
your, your overall take of I U football.
But I ask you this so you you were doing A C stuff, so totally
fine. I had about 10 minutes to to do
a little extra research. I found this topic because I've
been thinking about this and I'm I'm, I'm so tired of the
expectation being lowered for I U football where it's like, hey,
this is, you know, you just got to just be happy with four or
five wins like. Because I I agree.
We obviously are in agreement on this and I think at some point
you just have to have the expectations.
Like this is what needs to happen at a program at the level
we want to be at. Tom Allen has been the coach at
Indiana since 2017, Since 2017. There is only one other coach in
college football that has not won a ball game, but that coach
has been there the entire tenure.
I I will say, I'll ask you I I have a zero, like a 1% chance
that you know the answer because I had no idea who it was before
I started playing around with the numbers.
Oh, I have no. But yeah, the answer is Brett
Brennan at San Jose State. It would.
It would be sick if I knew that off the top of my head, wouldn't
it? That that'd be awesome, right?
But I was, I was poking around. I was just kind of like, you
know, who else has, you know? And yeah, he he has not won a
ball game. He's been the two bowl games.
Like Tom Allen lost a ball. He did win.
Conference title in 2020 is the Mountain West but still want a
conference title. But my point is I'm going to get
off this very quickly because there are contract things at AT
that are real that Tom Allen is going to be the head coach of I
U football next year. But this is where I would say to
anybody who who's listening, you know with with I U athletics is
like at some point you have to be serious about this and you
can say that since 2017 every other school.
In college football has either won a ball game, won a
conference title or fired their coach.
And I'm not saying you fire coach, but like you just you've
got to start doing those things and to the idea of like, hey,
you know, things are different here, it's like, no, like
there's a lot of other schools that are bad.
And like I went and looked, it's like California, who by the way,
just has kind of like stop playing football to the point
that they weren't wanted by any other conference.
They won the the Red Box Bowl in 2019.
Their coach has been there since their coach Justin Wilcox has
been there since 2017. So I just as I'm looking through
this, it's like we keep on going on to these lists where it's
like it is, it's absurd we're there.
I'm not calling for anything to happen with Tom Allen, but it's
like it is nuts that he's the longest one of you know, getting
their longest tenured and just just not have a Ballwin.
Nothing. Ballwin is the end all be all
but like at some point. It's wild that everyone else is
getting those things done and we're not, but yet we're
continuing to just do the same thing.
Well yeah and and I get all where all that that frustration
comes from. I look at Indiana from a big
picture perspective in that how you plan is how do you get good
and get good and sustain it over time.
And that is you make sure that you you have guaranteed three
wins with your non conference. You find a way to win and get to
a bowl game. I don't care about winning the
bowl game. That's not as important to me as
it is to a lot of other people. The reason being is because it
is that one bowl game doesn't. Indiana's not at the point where
that makes a season of success or not.
They're not at that step. Your step is to get to bowl
games consistently, then win, but win some of those bowl
games. If you win, that's great.
But it's one game you you win and it's and it's essentially A
meaningless game. You say for to fans, To fans,
it's important recruits, they don't care.
You you go to, you get to your bowl game you win.
Then you start to be able to move up the ranks because you're
getting in better recruits because you're going to bowls
year after year after year. You you keep winning.
The crowds start coming and and showing up and and at a much
higher level. The attitude of everybody.
We've won these kind of games before.
We're going to come back and and win them.
I'm now and that's how you build.
Everybody wants it to happen right away and and I understand
that everybody's itching. Indiana fans are dying for this
program to be good. Not just good or, you know, a
flash in the pan or a happy story, but just be good to to to
beat a beat A-Team and not only beat some teams, but steamroll
some teams along the way. This absolutely roll over them.
You know, Illinois comes in here and it's 38 to three.
You know, tear them up. And they did that a little bit
in 2019 and in some of those Tom Allen early years when they were
starting to, you know, hold teams under double digits or
halves a couple of shutouts a year, that that's what you want.
It's unquestionably taken a step back for a lot of different
reasons. But this year is such a question
mark to me because there are so many new faces and and it's just
tough to to know what we're going to have and the team
doesn't know either. That's The thing is the team
doesn't know what exactly it's going to look like when they're
actually playing other other opponents.
And and that to me is I don't understand how you could have
it. You know, solid player
leadership, how you could have solid, you know, just just the
player aspect of it. Coach, led teams are great, but
at some point players have to take over and that to me is
going to be a challenge because you just don't have any stars to
turn to. The leaders to turn to.
Aaron Casey is very good. I'm excited.
I'm hopeful for Cam Campers coming off an ACLI liked a lot
of what I saw out of Josh Henderson last year.
But it it's just it's those kind of things that just make you
just so uncertain about this year's team because there is no
identity, there is no star and it's going to be up to somebody
to be able to step up and and kind of separate themselves.
So, you know, for as the season goes on.
Yeah. I mean and I know you're a fan I
I I will take, I will push back just on one thing.
The idea like you know that I I think I U fans they do want it
but I always bristle it like you know they they want it right
away and it's like I I I understand the realities of
where we're at but it's like we're also in year seven.
It's like I get, I get in Wilson's first year and it's
like, but it's like that is something, it's not so much at
you, but it's like this is the like.
You you get, This is why we have to be in Ohio State in 40, you
know, 35 years. Like every year it's like, well,
this obviously can't be the year, but you know, at some
point we want it. It's like, well, but then every
year just it becomes like the calendar pages just keep it like
a cartoon. They just keep changing and it's
like at some point I do want it soon because like I'm 45, man.
Like my back's starting to hurt. I wake up neck pain like I'm
getting older. I I haven't seen a ball win
since you know 1991 and again ball wins aren't the end all be
all but I've only seen you know 7 or 8 balls in my lifetime.
I haven't seen a Big Ten title game like I I haven't gone to
the Rose Bowl like that is officially no longer a thing.
Like we missed out on that like you know it was only around for
125 years can like you got to give it some time like that's.
That is where I just like I I hear you and so that this goes
into expectations for this year which I I'm curious what your
thought is because I it's such a hard question to answer because
there's to me, I look at it like there's two ways like there's
the realistic like well you're coming off of you know A0IN Big
10 season in 2021, two wins last year.
You know, to say we're going to go seven, you know, seven and
six and go to a bowl game like that's, that's a big.
That's a big upgrade and we're going to win four Big 10 game.
That's asking a lot. So in the reality is that you're
probably looking at three to four wins overall, maybe, you
know, two Big Ten wins. The other way to look at it is
again, like the idea of like, hey, we're in year seven, man.
Like in 2019-2020 they happened like you did have eight wins.
You had six wins, like you went to back-to-back balls like you
were building something, you know?
The narrative of 20/21 was like, hey man, this is a blip.
Like things went, things went off the rails like we're coming
right back to me. The blip is then like when you
look at like, I mean it's not the best comp because of what's
going on. But like you look at like Pat
Fitzgerald's tenure under Northwestern, just his coaching,
nothing related to what's happened.
And I know he's got fired, but it's like he was that, you know,
go to a couple bowls and have a, you know have a three win season
that he'd come back and like. Win 8 games.
And so, like, that's where I have a hard time with the
narrative of like, hey, we're really good.
We we move the floor, but now we suck.
That's a blip. And then all of a sudden it's
like, oh, we're rebuilding. And so I'm I'm not sure there's
a part of me where it's like, hey, man, the expectation should
be eight wins this year just because, like you, we raised the
floor. But I think realistically, it's
probably 3:00 to 4:00. But I I'm curious.
Your thoughts? Well you know I I expectations
are are tough with with this program and and with foot with
college football in particular and especially with Indiana
because of the fact. That I mean, I mean it's they're
tough because you know, you mentioned, you know, 2020 or
2019. None of these kids this year
give a damn about 2020. They don't care at all about
2019. Like, you know, most of them
weren't part of those teams. You know, some of them were, but
you know, most of them weren't even a part of it.
And so they've moved on from that.
Fans and media haven't. And I'm not saying that we
should, but I'm saying that that, you know, for players,
especially players that come in for this season that are
transferred in, they don't care what happened last year.
And then furthermore in their minds it's not going to happen
again because they are here now. And that's why I I tell, I tell
people that all the time that when a team goes to a bowl like
we've seen Indiana go to a bowl and it doesn't positively it it,
then they have a tough season it they don't have people suddenly
leaving the the you know, decommitting.
The reason is there isn't a kid that has been recruited ever
that thinks I'm going to go there and continue to lose.
Not a single one. And furthermore, if he does have
that attitude, he shouldn't be playing football, You know,
plain and simple. No, you're right.
They all come in like I'm changing it.
It's when you get into the day-to-day so.
Everyone's the hero of their own movie.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so you know those
expectations. It's tough.
And what do I expect out of Indiana this year?
Well, they won two games two years ago.
They won four games last year. So this year should be 8.
If they keep getting twice as good as they were last year,
it's going to be 8 and four. It's going to be quite amazing
to watch. It down and the expectations, I
I literally have none because I don't know what this team is,
what this program is. Could they be a team that you
know wins are non conference game steals a big 10 game build
some momentum the the new guys really gel and help out and and
score some wins. Yeah they could be could they be
a team that never get it together and it's some injuries
take some people down and quarterbacks never develop.
Yeah they could it this is a blank page and that in year
seven is a is a concern. I mean, it really is because you
don't have a direction for the program, but the head coach who
has been here for a while, he's trying to do something to try to
fix the the problems he's trying.
He's throwing everything against the wall and seeing what stick
and you know at at the very least he isn't doubling down on
on what he's he's done before. I give him credit for that.
But also the clock is ticking and when you like you say you've
been here for seven years, stability is extremely important
for a coaching staff and for a program.
Tom Allen has has been that stabilizing, you know force over
the years, but it's also results oriented game and so you have to
start seeing some real progress, real, real soon.
I want to see a better team and I want to see a better team in
November than we see in September and that isn't
something that we've often seen here.
That's, that's a great point. No, you're right.
And that we, I mean I would say 20/20/2019 and 20/20 were the
last two years we saw that. Yeah, that's a great point we
haven't seen in two years. Hopefully we do.
The last thing I'll say about the Ohio State game is, you
know, it feels like we we open our season with them way too
much. But you know that that 2017 game
was an August 31st game. You know the final score is 2949
to 21, but that that game was really close.
Through halftime it's it's not it's not it's not a win but it's
not nothing. But you know like and there you
know we played you know October 3rd in 2015 we played Ohio State
that was 3427. Still relatively early in the
season like there's there's a world We've played Ohio State
pretty good in some of these early games at least early on
there. There's a world where you can
just catch them maybe way off guard.
I I don't know I'm just like that I I go back to the at some
point you just got to. Find a way to do something
different at some point. You can't have so many Goliaths
in in the conference because unfortunately you're right.
Like the conference is going to change and getting out of the
East seems like it's a good thing, but it's like you're just
picking up other good teams like it just doesn't.
It's never going to get any easier.
Let me let me bring up Ohio State in 2020.
Indiana almost won that ball game.
Yeah, what was his halftime score?
We were. It was 28, seven, it was 28
seven. They were down 35 to seven in
the third quarter. Indiana rallied and that was
great. But they also were down 35 to 7
before before they bounced back. And so that one again, even if
you know here you are, no fans and they did late in eight now.
They rallied and that was great. Panics was fantastic.
They did a nice job and he also threw a pick that without that
pick, you know it it it could be a different game.
There's a lot of ifs and wins. But it's easy to forget that
Indiana was down 35 to 7 in that ball game and and came back.
Whether Ohio State let off the gas a little bit, whatever it
was, it was still a hell of a game and Indiana nearly pulled
it out. But they still had dug
themselves a hell of a hole at at that point.
And so these, these are the things that again, as seasons go
on, like you say, these games become a blur.
And you remember that final, that Penn State game in 2020,
You know that was a roller coaster as well, that Indiana
almost choked that one away. You know, if you remember what,
what the score was with that, I'm pulling that up right now.
That one was a roller coaster, but.
And. Again, like again, the W, the W
counts. But that was one where, like, I
think had that Penn State running back just scored.
The game is over, yeah. He took a knee.
I guess it was like end of the fourth quarter, like they made a
very tactical mistake. Indiana's up 10 at halftime and
then stops playing defense. I mean that's it gave up seven
points in the first half and 28 in the second-half, so.
Yeah, no. Well, I I think I like what you
said. Like I just want to see us play
better at the end of the year and just make us feel like we're
pointed in the right direction. But can you you get to deal with
all the fans after every game? I I love being their therapist.
I know you, I really do I20. Years now, right?
It it's this is going to be my 12th year doing it I think and
12th or 13th. And I thoroughly enjoy it and I
I thoroughly enjoy the relationships that we have with
the the people that call in because the people call in and
sometimes you hear them and you just got to let them go because
they got their wife doesn't want to hear it anymore man they
don't. And especially at like a night
game you know they're they're you know they she, she doesn't
want to hear it And so they call me and and you know our our
cohost whether it's going to be, you know whoever it's been over
the years we've had Austin Render.
We've had Joe Smith, we've had Jeremy Gray.
You know, we we've had a number of people do it and it it's, but
it's it's fun and it's worthwhile and I think it's
something I'm extremely proud to be a part of.
Yep. No, you do.
You do a great job. I love listening to it on my
drive home and look forward to another.
I've still never called in, but I I do this.
This is my own thing too, too. My, I mean, we need everybody to
call some of those nights. Boy, you can see they're getting
blown out in the second-half and you can see the tail lights
going. It's like, no, don't leave yet
guys, come on. We need you to call after fish
gets done. Oh, no, that's that's I call
when I hit 465. Like, yeah, that's the whole
thing is like I can listen to a couple calls and then get home.
So there you go Ken. No, it's been great.
I look forward to talking with you at the end of the season.
Hopefully we have positive things to say.
I hope so too. Thank you so much for having me
on. I appreciate it.
Oh man, dude, always a great time.
I'm happy you're getting some A/C.
Hope the air is cool. And hope the air is cool where
you guys are listening. Thank you guys so much for
listening. We will continue getting ready
for the season coming up in a couple of weeks.
I want to thank everyone for listening for for Ken Scott for
Crimson Cast signing off.