1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,560 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:25,080 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Castle 3 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:26,920 and Clavio joining you once again. 4 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,960 It is Monday, March 31st. March is probably over by the 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,480 time most of you are seeing or listening to this, which is a 6 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,800 shame. One of the best months of the 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,480 year, especially if you love basketball. 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,640 But plenty to talk about on the basketball front with IU in 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,480 particular. And we are pleased to have a new 10 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:48,240 guest to the podcast. But if you're around the IU 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,640 media space, not a new name to you. 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Tom Ackerman, the sports director at Camo X in Saint 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Louis. IU alum. 14 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,600 IU Sports Media alum and a guy that I talk with about IU 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,800 basketball in particular on a pretty regular basis here on the 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,440 show. Tom, welcome for the first time 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:08,920 to Crimson Cast. Great to have you on. 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,280 Caitlin, it is great to be with you. 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,240 It's great to be on Crimson Cast. 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,680 It's great to talk IU sports. And yeah, I am a long time 21 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,640 consumer of this podcast so it is nice to be part of it. 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,960 How are you? How often in this business do we 23 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:25,680 get to do the long time listener, first time caller? 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,480 Absolutely right. Long time listener, first time 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,600 caller. You know, it's funny. 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:35,000 Recently I was watching the Ohio State game, the one with the 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,840 last home game. And when Trey hit the three, I 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,080 pumped my jumped off the couch and pumped my fist. 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,640 And my wife said, boy, you are just obsessed with this team, 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,320 aren't you? And I said, let me tell you 31 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,200 something, I'm like, this team is all I got. 32 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,160 Because when you think about it, I'm actually connected as a 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,560 business partner with the teams that I work with here and say 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Louis, I love them. I mean, I grew up a Saint Louis 35 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,680 fan. And yes, I am connected to 36 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,240 Indiana University and some business dealings, let's say as 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,000 a Advisory Board member of the media school with the with the 38 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,680 original Dean, Jim Shanahan, and you know, other other workings 39 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,880 with you and others. But you know that truly this 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,960 team right here is a passion of mine and it's so much fun to be 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,440 asked to talk a little bit more about it because, you know, I do 42 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,600 get into work mode too and I start to study this team as if 43 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,320 I'm on the beat. So it's a. 44 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,160 It's a lot of fun to get into it all. 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,760 That's great. And I mean, it's, it's one of 46 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,800 those things where I don't think people outside the media 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,160 business really realize the distance you have to keep 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,840 professionally between the teams that you're covering versus what 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,080 you would have as a fan. And it is, it is great. 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,600 And I know just from talking to you how passionate you've been 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,400 for so long about IU basketball in particular. 52 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,280 So it's great to be able to talk with you about it. 53 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,280 First, before we get started, just quick reminder, folks were 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,320 brought to you by Home Field Apparel, your place to go for 55 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,400 the finest in college fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,040 designs. Use the code HOME 23 and get 15% 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,720 off your first order from Home Field. 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,080 And they continue to roll out awesome March Madness related 59 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,480 items. They'll have a a bunch of new 60 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,680 products coming out here in April that you'll want to keep 61 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,320 an eye on and always some new innovative things from home 62 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,320 field that are exciting to check out. 63 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,840 So go to their website, homefieldapparel.com. 64 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,120 Check them out on social media as well. 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,240 So Tom, before we get started, why don't we go through your 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,040 history with IU? You know, you were a student 67 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,880 here. You we overlapped by I think a 68 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,040 single year, although we didn't know each other in that 69 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,000 intermediate period. But we had kind of similar 70 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,800 starts in terms of how we got going with IU, what brought us 71 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,800 to Bloomington in the 1st place to talk a little bit about your 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,120 connection with IU and where that all began. 73 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:00,880 Yeah. Absolutely. 74 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,840 I'm a kid from St. Louis, MO. 75 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,160 You know, I've, I've been a Saint Louis kid my whole life 76 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,520 and I've lived here my whole life except for the four years I 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,600 spent in Bloomington from 93 to 97. 78 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,079 I graduated from high school in 93, started in Bloomington the 79 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:21,000 fall of 93, graduated in 97. Very proud of that run there. 80 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,040 And I'm, I'm as as passionate about IU and it's connected to 81 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,840 it now as I was then. And it really started. 82 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:31,600 The interesting thing was my line is that I got recruited by 83 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,280 Bob Knight and it's actually a true story. 84 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,360 So when I was in high school, I was 16 years old, my dad and I 85 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,120 were in Colorado at a celebrity golf tournament following our 86 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,560 friend Larry Ziegler, who played on the PGA Tour. 87 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,440 And he was playing in a pro am, the Gerald Ford Invitational. 88 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,680 And the former president had his own tournament in Vail. 89 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,400 And Bob Knight was playing with Larry and Larry said, you know, 90 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,320 come down and see us, we'd love to say hi. 91 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,800 So we went down to the practice screen, we're on the other side 92 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,280 of the ropes, and I got to meet Bob Knight for the first time as 93 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,240 a 16 year old kid. Well, 5 minutes later they asked 94 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,400 me to go caddy for him. I didn't know that was going to 95 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,920 happen. I was a caddy in Saint Louis, so 96 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,200 I knew what I was doing. So I, I did, I went over, I went 97 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,320 underneath the rope and I ended up catting for Coach Knight in 98 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,760 this tournament. And Long story short, you know, 99 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,960 he took a liking to me and actually was interested in where 100 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,400 I was looking at college pushed Indiana asked if I would like to 101 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,440 come visit. And I found out later upon that 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,760 meeting that he he showed some interest in me and was 103 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,440 encouraging me to try to be a manager, at least try out to be 104 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,240 a manager. And, you know, as it turned out, 105 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,480 this was my passion. I wanted to be a broadcaster. 106 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,440 I want to be on this side. But it was that first meeting 107 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,960 that I had with Buzz Kirpius that I fell in love with Indiana 108 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,560 University. I wanted to be in. 109 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,920 She sold me, Coach Knight sold me. 110 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:03,720 I I fell in love with the school, got into the school, 111 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,200 accepted and I never looked back. 112 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,360 And, and, you know, it's a, it's a very special place in my 113 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,880 heart. My dad passed away suddenly of a 114 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,480 heart attack right after my high school graduation. 115 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,880 So Indiana is where I healed. Indiana is where I became a man. 116 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,040 Indiana's where I carried on my passion of sports and basketball 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,760 and broadcasting and, you know, made incredible friends that we 118 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,400 are still very close to this day. 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,160 That is, that is my tie with IU. It goes well beyond sports, 120 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,800 which obviously a big part of my life. 121 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Yeah, that's, that's a tremendous story and and one I'd 122 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,880 heard before, but I wanted the the people to hear that 123 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,960 obviously. So you, you go to IU and you 124 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,920 kind of did what I did when when I was here the four years 125 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,280 following that. You're working at WIUS at the 126 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:57,920 time, which, which was it was a Spartan arrangement, to say the 127 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,040 least. You know, a small house on 128 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,960 campus. It was very much kind of run by 129 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,720 the folks that lived in Collins Living Learning Center, which 130 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,360 wasn't the most sports friendly, but there were a lot of 131 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,520 opportunities to call games. And you have that experience. 132 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,480 You move back to Saint Louis after that. 133 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:14,760 And then what? What happened in that 134 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,360 intermediate period between the end of the 90s and now? 135 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,720 Yeah, it was. And what a time, I mean, what a 136 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,480 time to be able to graduate from Indiana, to have that 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,880 experience, like you said, calling games, doing basketball 138 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,200 and football and baseball for the student radio station. 139 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,600 And you know how it is. I mean, you as your students do 140 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,720 now, you know a lot of is it on your shoulders, producing it, 141 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,680 being there on time, preparing, all of those things I learned at 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,240 Indiana and I came back to Saint Louis that summer and I applied 143 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,320 for a job at my dream station and I went for it at KMOXI had 144 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,880 heard of an opening for a board operator slash producer and it 145 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,600 didn't make a lot of money. It was a $7.00 an hour job, but 146 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,440 you know, my dream was to work in my hometown and this was an 147 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,520 inn. I got the interview at least to 148 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,520 to that stage and I told them that my goal in my career is to 149 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,840 be a nationally known sports broadcaster. 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,680 But I wanted to, you know, earn that through many years of work, 151 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,040 and I wanted to put in that time here at KMOX. 152 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,480 And I think my advantage was that I was a passionate listener 153 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,159 of the station. And I knew everything about 154 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,280 their lineup. I knew about their 155 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,960 personalities, and I had some ideas. 156 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,240 And, you know, I got paid very little to do a lot of stuff, get 157 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,240 coffee, drive the van, you know, make a phone call, book a guest. 158 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,440 But it wasn't very long. You know, days into the job that 159 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,400 I was working alongside Jack Buck, my idol, and you know, all 160 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,480 the other great people that work at Camo X and have worked at 161 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,360 Camo X. And I learned from the best of 162 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,480 the best. I learned how to carry myself 163 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,800 professionally. I learned how to interact with 164 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,120 fans. I learned how to to talk about a 165 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,360 brand like the Cardinals. And also I was thrown right into 166 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,200 the fire. I mean, they didn't waste time. 167 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,600 They put me right in there. I was covering the big names 168 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,240 and, you know, I sort of learned on the job on the fly and I 169 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,000 wouldn't ask for anything more. You know, that the chaos of, of 170 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,480 covering big league sports like I like I was able to do. 171 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,200 And I'll tell you, covering Coach Knight in Indiana prepared 172 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,320 me for that. I mean, I was no stranger to big 173 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,440 press conferences, big personalities, big national 174 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,480 media coming to town. That didn't bother me at all. 175 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,800 And it also helped that Tony Darussa and Bob Knight were 176 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,080 great friends. We found out that I was a Bob 177 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,640 Knight guy. My relationship with him was 178 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,160 pretty secure and very, very fortunate to be able to to learn 179 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,960 from somebody like that about the game of baseball. 180 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,040 So there's it was a it was a very, very special time of my 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,200 life that that doesn't seem like that long ago, right, right. 182 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Obviously. But it's been, you know, over 183 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,800 half my life, well over half my life. 184 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,880 I've been at KMOX here in St. Louis, that's awesome. 185 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,160 Now one of the things that you do, you know, and it's, it's 186 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,440 even outside of what you do at KMOX is you've done a lot of 187 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,400 broadcasting. Of course, Saint Louis, home of 188 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,160 many things sports related, but one of them is Arch Madness, the 189 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:23,120 Missouri Valley Conference tournament. 190 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,520 You're right kind of in the middle there the conference and 191 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,560 you know, as soon as we heard the announcement that Darren 192 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:33,120 Devries, who coached the Drake, which is a long time Missouri 193 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,040 Valley member, I was going to be the next head coach to IUI. 194 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,160 Was like, I wonder what Tom thinks about this, given that 195 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,960 you've covered that conference closely covered coach Devries 196 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,520 while he was there. So maybe let's let's move to 197 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,760 that like your your impressions of Darren Devries as a head 198 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,400 coach and and a long time Valley coach, because he was obviously 199 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,080 an assistant at Creighton before that. 200 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,080 And what stuck out, I guess, from the six years that he was 201 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,400 heading the bench in Des Moines? Yeah, absolutely. 202 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,320 You know, my profession has taken me to a lot of places. 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,960 But in basketball, I've been very fortunate to be around a 204 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,920 lot of coaches, you know, whether it was, you know, doing 205 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,720 radio at the University of Missouri or now doing TV for 206 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,040 Saint Louis University and being around Josh Shirts, all the Big 207 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,720 12 SEC, you know, some Big 10 thrown in there, as well as, you 208 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,240 know, national assignments and the Missouri Valley Conference, 209 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,360 though, you know, doing TV for them since, gosh, 2003. 210 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,600 To think of the names that have come through there, the coaches 211 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,920 that have come through there, you know, you can just put them 212 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,760 out there. Some of the best that I've ever 213 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,560 seen. Matt Painter, you know, it comes 214 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,240 to mind as somebody that jumped out that it wasn't going to be 215 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:49,600 around the Valley for very long. These are some of the most 216 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:56,520 focused, hard nosed, tough coaches, humble in a lot of 217 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,560 ways, and all of that embodies Darren Devries. 218 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:06,720 Darren Devries is a competitor. He struck me right away as an 219 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:12,640 assistant under Greg McDermott at Creighton in the way that 220 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,520 they recruited to their system and the way that they coached. 221 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,240 He was highly regarded as a player. 222 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,960 Darren was in his time in Cedar Falls in Northern Iowa and you 223 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,800 know, he was the valley through and through and he took over his 224 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,480 Drake coach. You could see that the team had 225 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:38,400 his personality, Tough, hard nosed, humble, and they'd never, 226 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,080 ever gave an inch. And I was very impressed with 227 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,920 how they were unselfish and played together as a group, you 228 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:51,240 know, very competitive. And it struck me pretty quickly 229 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,240 the Darren De Vries was not going to be around the Valley 230 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,240 very long either. As it turned out, he got the job 231 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,280 of West Virginia. And I'm convinced that if West 232 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,680 Virginia stays healthy, they're in the tournament this year. 233 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,080 They weren't able to do that, but they did have some great 234 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,960 wins along the way. So proven correct there. 235 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:11,520 And then finally, when I got wind that Indiana was talking to 236 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,240 him and when it became reality that he was the coach at IUI, 237 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,640 felt very satisfied. And you know, as an IU fan, we 238 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,200 don't always have that feeling. I mean, we've been trying to 239 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,280 replace Bob Knight for decades now, and this is coach number 240 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,600 six in that attempt. Depends on who you count and who 241 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,480 you don't. Yes, right. 242 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:32,640 Yeah, you could. You could probably add one more 243 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,320 in there. Well, it's been, it's been a, 244 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,640 it's been a, a, a very, very tough ride. 245 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:45,560 And here we go. You know, and, and I feel very 246 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,400 confident in saying this that I think Indiana fans are really 247 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,720 going to relate to and appreciate the type of 248 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,680 basketball that Darren Devries puts forward. 249 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:59,120 That is my first impression. Describe what you anticipate he 250 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,000 he's going to put forward and and how like, what is it about 251 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,440 his style of play both offensively and defensively that 252 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,080 you think is going to appeal to IU fans? 253 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,440 Well, I think that offensively he is going to try to catch you 254 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,800 napping defensively, so as soon as they make a steal in 255 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,680 transition, they're going to come get you in the 1st 10 256 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,920 seconds. Now, that's really always been 257 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,680 his his philosophy, Creighton under McDermott and that's what 258 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,480 they do. And then offensively, they get 259 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,320 you in the half court. They're going to work you. 260 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,640 They're going to hit the boards hard. 261 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:35,360 They're always seem to have he always had a very experienced, 262 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,880 heady, smart point guard and preferably 2. 263 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,120 You know, I think about the Drake teams of the past, you 264 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,480 know, there was never one person necessarily to lean on except 265 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,800 when he had Tucker plan. You know, Tucker as a two time 266 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,920 Valley player of the year was an obvious choice. 267 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,240 But if Tucker for some reason his shots weren't falling, other 268 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,920 people would pick up the slack. But they didn't make things easy 269 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,560 on you. And in the half court, they 270 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,080 would absolutely find ways to get a high percentage basket. 271 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,800 And if it wasn't there, they had the shooters to burn you on the 272 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,320 outside. And then finally, there was one 273 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,640 thing you could count on is that Drake was going to defend. 274 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,240 There were there were no nights off. 275 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,920 Drake has always been at West Virginia, you know, I mean that 276 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,080 look, it's sincere Harris. There is no no surprise at all 277 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,000 that he was an all Big 12 defensive player as a sophomore. 278 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,360 I mean, he identified what he wanted. 279 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,960 He implements those players and puts them in the best position 280 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,440 to win. That's what I expect to see out 281 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,400 of this team. You know, the, and I'll share a 282 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:47,240 quick story about his mentality and, and, and the I think that's 283 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,800 a big part of a basketball team is how does a team respond when 284 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,280 things don't go well? And I mentioned the injuries, 285 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,200 but all you need to know about, if you look at the West Virginia 286 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,480 scores from last year, what's the one that jumps out at you? 287 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,040 Probably the win at Allen Fieldhouse. 288 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,320 There's a story behind that win. So they go to Kansas and they 289 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,000 have flight problems to the point where I believe it was a 290 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,080 flat tire on the plane. So they can't get into Kansas. 291 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,680 They finally get in at about 3:00 in the morning for a 1:00 292 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,720 tip. They get to the hotel, 293 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,800 electricity, power goes out in the hotel. 294 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,920 So this is middle of the night. Now we're in the morning. 295 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,760 We got a 1:00 tip of West Virginia at Kansas. 296 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,040 Kansas, they don't lose their conference opener. 297 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,080 Hadn't lost their conference opener since 1993. 298 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,720 W Virginia never wanted Allen. Tucker's hurt. 299 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,440 Their big man Hansberry is in a boot. 300 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,560 I mean, it's like every excuse they could possibly have to get 301 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,360 their rear ends kicked in and what do they do? 302 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,920 Typical Daren Devries, they come out of the gate, they go up 10 303 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,920 and they hold off Kansas and win at Allen Fieldhouse. 304 00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,080 And it was kind of the start of exposing K UA little bit, but it 305 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,200 was a tremendous win for West Virginia. 306 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,520 And that told me a lot about what kind of a mentality his 307 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,440 teams will have. Didn't surprise me. 308 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,440 I saw it at Drake, but that he was able to take that in a short 309 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,319 amount of time. Mind you, a group that had won 310 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,640 what, 9 games the year before and had them playing his way 311 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,640 that quickly, that got my attention as well. 312 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,480 Well, and you can even connect that back to Drake. 313 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,440 I mean, you're familiar with this, given your long history 314 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,160 with the Missouri Valley, that that is not a prime coaching 315 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,800 spot historically in the Missouri Valley. 316 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,120 I mean, they had the one great year with Keno Davis that kind 317 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,800 of came out of the blue in what, 2008, I think it was, or 2007 318 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,040 and then a whole lot of not great. 319 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,360 I mean, when you think of the Missouri Valley, you think about 320 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:50,400 Creighton or Wichita State or or Missouri State, the how 321 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,400 impressive was it for him to average essentially like over 22 322 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,880 victories a year at Drake of all schools within that conference? 323 00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,480 Yeah, And you know, I think again about point guard and as 324 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,240 much attention as Tucker de Vries received, Roman Penn was a 325 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,880 great player for that Drake team. 326 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,320 And it was like, you could always count on Drake to do 327 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,120 certain things well, manage the game well, not make too many 328 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,680 mistakes. And you just expected them to be 329 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,560 good. And he created that identity. 330 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:24,200 He got them back on track. And now Ben Mccollum's a heck of 331 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,520 a coach. And he took it to another level. 332 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,720 And I think it's the perfect fit at Iowa and ends up winning, you 333 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,320 know, 31 games for a reason. That machine was rolling also. 334 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,240 And Drake's expectations were high. 335 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,240 And Ben was able to to get it to that level even after Darren 336 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,040 left, which is very impressive also. 337 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,960 But yeah, there's even some buzz now. 338 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,520 I heard the other day, you know, out to dinner with some Valley 339 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,760 people who are like, at what point does does Drake move up to 340 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,800 another conference? I'm like, wait a minute. 341 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,040 Drake was just just, you know, six or seven years ago was sort 342 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,440 of back in the middle of the road. 343 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,920 But here they are as a premier team in the Missouri Valley 344 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,080 Conference. It's, you know, Des Moines, IA, 345 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,720 as you mentioned, you know, it's not the most desirable place for 346 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,120 people to go, but they have a great school. 347 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,440 They play in the NAP Center, which is a cool little arena. 348 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,600 They have, you know, some good resources up there. 349 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,800 Very highly regarded academic institution. 350 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,760 And Drake University is a basketball destination. 351 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,200 And Darren Devries got them back moving again. 352 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,560 I know having worked in Iowa in radio and having had the Des 353 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,240 Moines schools in the same conference as the school that I 354 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,160 broadcasted for, it was a it was a not tidy 90 minutes each 355 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,720 direction to get up to those games. 356 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,760 And I was always struck by, you know, Northern Iowa in the 357 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,360 Missouri Valley has always been a player and and they were 358 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,320 they've been a part of a lot of NCAA upsets and like there's no 359 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,480 reason why it can't work at Drake, but they need the right 360 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,320 people to get things moving. And clearly with debris and now 361 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,960 with McCollum, they've been able to do that. 362 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,040 It does kind of bring it, you know, bring the circle back to 363 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,120 IU. And I'm curious to get your take 364 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,440 on this. You see a ton of basketball. 365 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,880 You've called a ton of basketball. 366 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,600 You've obviously. Had this affinity for IU and you 367 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,440 covered it at a time when it was not at its apex, certainly, but 368 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,920 there was a much different atmosphere, a much more 369 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,080 celebrated atmosphere around IU basketball in the mid 90s 370 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,120 because you're still basking in the afterglow of having won 371 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,560 three national titles in the previous 20 years. 372 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,080 What do you see as the main changes that have to happen with 373 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,840 IU basketball to get it back to the level that it professes that 374 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,680 it wants to be at? Yeah. 375 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,160 I mean, I think 1 is you have to have an identity as a program so 376 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,880 that players will be attracted to it. 377 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,960 And I know that Indiana has an IL money. 378 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,960 We know that they they're up there in, in terms of resources 379 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,840 and they're going to be able to get certain players, but you 380 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,400 have to be able to attract players in Indiana. 381 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,000 We've said this kind of, you know, over and over again, high 382 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,160 school kids don't know Indiana. Like we know it. 383 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,720 You know, they don't know about the history. 384 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,280 They don't know about Bob Knight. 385 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,120 You know, they're told it, but they didn't feel it that this 386 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,960 is, you know, those years are long gone. 387 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,880 So you have to create something that is attractive to the 388 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,600 basketball player to come to Indiana, whether that is of 389 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,280 course NIL funds, we all know that's part of it and the 390 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,800 coaching staff is part of it. But somewhere where it's fun for 391 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,120 them to play. And I think that Darren Devries 392 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,600 is an offensive coach. I mean, I really do. 393 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,400 I I think that he's going to create something that is going 394 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,760 to be attractive to players to want to play in. 395 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,400 And, and that's really important. 396 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,440 I think that the other thing you need to do as Indiana University 397 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,000 is have consistency in your program as well. 398 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,320 And I think that they have attempted that in the past when 399 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,120 they're going to really give Darren De Vries that opportunity 400 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,680 to have his system in place and try to carry players over from 401 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,120 year to year. It's hard to just shuffle the 402 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,400 deck every year and that's easier said than done, but that 403 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,120 you have to be able to retain and continue on some sort of 404 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,680 group so that you can carry those forward each year. 405 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,000 You it's hard to just change over every year with with a 406 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,120 different group. So I do think they need that as 407 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:20,120 well. Indiana is a a school that is 408 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:24,520 complicated because it has such a demanding fan base, but I 409 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,040 think you want to feed into that. 410 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,720 You want to find somebody and they've done that. 411 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,480 Now. A young coach who's hungry and 412 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,400 he is young. I mean, he is our age. 413 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,040 He's what, 49? So, you know, he's got, he's got 414 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:42,240 a lot of things to prove and, and a lot of, I think relatable 415 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,360 Midwest sort of values with the crowd there. 416 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,480 He, he's, you know, from Applington, Iowa, He's, you 417 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,920 know, got that blue collar upbringing. 418 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,800 His dad was, you know, in the farming and his mom's still a 419 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,800 hairdresser. And then, you know, his, his 420 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,560 family all played sports. And, you know, I, I just think 421 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,920 that you have to be able to connect with that audience. 422 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,040 So I think what I'm saying is I do think it's important that the 423 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,880 coach, the figurehead has some ability to connect with the 424 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,360 fanbase. I think it's important, you 425 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,920 know, Archie Miller, I, I, I would not deny his basketball 426 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,360 knowledge, but I think as time went on, I felt like there was 427 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,760 not that comfort level in going all in the fishbowl. 428 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,000 I think that Mike Woodson was prepared to go in on the 429 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,360 fishbowl and I think that over time that one got to be too much 430 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,480 as well. It's it's not a lot of fun 431 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,520 sometimes. So you know, it it just is going 432 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,360 to have to be the connection, the embracing that craziness. 433 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,920 I think Tom Crean had it for a little while. 434 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,280 I really do. He embraced it and actually felt 435 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,160 very comfortable in the mud. But over time, I think it just, 436 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,560 you know, it ran its course and perhaps everybody got a bit worn 437 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,520 out, including Tom and A and a change was necessary. 438 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,520 And now I think, you know, it'll be very interesting to see how 439 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,840 this staying power of Darren Devries evolves over time. 440 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,280 But I think that they do have the right person. 441 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,400 I feel that right now. I agree with all of that. 442 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:25,600 I mean, I think IU fans are often misunderstood with this. 443 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,360 And look, obviously the reaction to losses has been bad, but I 444 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,160 think a lot of it has been, there's been a perceived lack of 445 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,880 effort at times of the coaches over the course of the last 446 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,200 decade really to kind of meet the fans halfway on these 447 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,480 things. And the fact that Darren 448 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,680 Devries, it is all over social media over the weekend that he 449 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,440 has gone up to the 3A and 4A high school basketball 450 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280 championships in Indianapolis, I mean, that really resonated 451 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,600 amongst a lot of folks. It's like, hey, someone's 452 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,080 putting an effort in here at the beginning of things and I. 453 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:00,560 Yeah, you got to exactly. Like that Help. 454 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,920 Yeah, you got to be able to go to the banquet in wherever town 455 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,760 and if someone says was that Jeffersonville, Fisher's Game, 456 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,360 not unbelievable. And and Darren can say, yeah, 457 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,680 man, I was there. I mean, that was crazy. 458 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760 And be able to break it down and have that conversation with 459 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,320 somebody. I mean, that is it's extremely 460 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,720 important. And I'm not just talking about 461 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,120 the big money people. I'm talking about people who 462 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,360 support the program, who are going to hand it down generation 463 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,120 after generation who are going to buy the tickets. 464 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:33,600 We're going to talk your program up. 465 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,280 You never know where that conversation will go to another 466 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,680 high school coach or high school player or, you know, gets out 467 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,880 into the the public, you know, and and and continues to create 468 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,920 a positive vibe about the Indiana experience. 469 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,600 It is an experience unto its own. 470 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,720 We know that. I mean, there's, there's very 471 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,240 few fan bases like ours, but that's OK. 472 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,640 I mean, we, we just kind of, we kind of accept that as, as the, 473 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,040 the passion and the magic of Indiana basketball. 474 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,920 And, and sometimes I agree with you. 475 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,480 I think a perception of it can be that it's too intense. 476 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,400 I think that if you, if you're coaching Indiana basketball, you 477 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,440 want that, you know, you want that craziness because you think 478 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,480 about what will it be like if, if I do get it done? 479 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,000 I mean it there. There is no better place to be 480 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,480 in college basketball than if you're the one who takes Indiana 481 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,080 to the promised land. As I, you know, I always heard 482 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,840 people talking about IU basketball as if it was like, 483 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,600 like we were impervious to, to falling off of a Cliff. 484 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,040 From a success perspective. This was 25 years ago. 485 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840 I remember there was one gentleman in particular on the 486 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,960 message boards who would constantly say there's nothing 487 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,720 different in the water in Bloomington. 488 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040 But that runs both ways. There's nothing that preserves 489 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,400 high level success, but there's nothing that prevents it either. 490 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,880 It's really just about having the best combination of the 491 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,640 right people, doing the right type of work, the hard work 492 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,480 that's needed to get you to that level and sustain it. 493 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,880 And I think we've seen that in a bunch of basketball programs 494 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,280 across the country. It's not just something that's 495 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,880 unique to Indiana. No, and I try to explain it to 496 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,640 people that and this isn't unique to Indiana either, but it 497 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,040 is true that who was I talking to the other day? 498 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,280 Oh, it was like a Murray State fan was in town for the For Arch 499 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,040 madness. And he said, you know, I was 500 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,240 walking down Market Street and someone recognized my jacket and 501 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,400 said, hey, Murray State Racers, you know, And I said, that's 502 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,440 awesome. And I said, if you were playing 503 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,160 in Bloomington, they'd stop you and probably break your line up 504 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720 down for you and tell you what they think you should be doing. 505 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,880 Indiana fans are basketball fans, period. 506 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,880 I mean, they basketball first, Indiana basketball second, 507 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,520 basketball's first. They want to make sure that 508 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,920 you're playing the game the right way and they will call you 509 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,840 on it. And that's what I love about the 510 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,200 fan base the most is you feel it inside the building. 511 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,720 And again, there are other schools that are like that, that 512 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,800 have that sort of lineage in history, but you feel it inside 513 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,600 the building. The passion, the understanding 514 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,760 of the game. And if you don't like coaching 515 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,280 in front of 17,000 coaches, well, Indiana's not for you. 516 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,800 Well, Tom, I, I really appreciate you taking the time 517 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,080 to join us on the show. It's a lot of fun and appreciate 518 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,160 your perspective on things and I know we'll see you back in 519 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,000 Bloomington for games this upcoming year and certainly just 520 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,920 appreciate your insights in general on all this. 521 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,320 Well, it's my pleasure and I know that, you know, as we speak 522 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,440 right now, there's some players taking a look around campus and 523 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,760 eventually that class will be filled and maybe we can talk 524 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,280 about a few other people that join this team. 525 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,640 But yeah, it it should be a lot of fun to watch this develop. 526 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,440 I'm really looking forward to it and always great to talk to you. 527 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:55,000 Likewise, Tom Ackerman joining us, horse rider, KMOX and long 528 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,280 time IU fan and alum. We appreciate him joining us on 529 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,440 the show. Thanks to all you folks for 530 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,320 listening as well. We'll be back with more podcasts 531 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,280 throughout the course of the week. 532 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,080 I'm Galen Clavio, stay never daunted, bring back to Bison. 533 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,080 We'll catch you folks on the flip side song, everybody.