1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,560 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:22,280 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Cast, 3 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,840 GAIL and Clavio joining you. Here it is, Tuesday, August 4 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:32,400 20th, 11 days from the opening kickoff in Memorial Stadium and 5 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,520 only like 4 days away from college football kicking off, 6 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,160 which happens this upcoming weekend, I believe, as I think 7 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:43,840 we've got like the Florida State, Georgia Tech that's going 8 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,080 to bring them in ratings wise. But but anyway, it's great to 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,680 have college football back and we are right in the thick of 10 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:51,880 things. We've got our friend Taylor 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,680 Layman from Bite sized Bison joining us on the show. 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,040 Taylor, great to see you. Happy birthday last week and 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,040 happy, happy sports season. We we made it through the long 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,720 pause and we're back again. Yeah, yeah. 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,440 Thank you, Galen. Yeah, No, the I, I every every 16 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,840 year since I've been. Well, I, I remember when I was 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,840 in college and I covered Indiana football, I always got so 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,960 excited. I was more of a football guy 19 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:19,440 than a basketball guy and just being up in the press box and 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,200 covering games like that. The excitement around it was was 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,440 awesome and I still kind of get similar feelings to to that when 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,120 when the bat when the football season approaches. 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,680 So I'm really, really looking forward to it. 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,880 Also, I feel like by size buys and now is starting to kind of 25 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,000 shape into what I was hoping it would when I first started. 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,320 So I'm actually really excited for this football season of the 27 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,600 new things that are that are coming to the newsletter. 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,120 If you haven't checked out Bite Sized Bison, please go do so 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,680 folks. You can do it on sub stack. 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:54,640 You can follow Taylor on on X or or other sites and get links to 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,520 you can also go to our sub stack and there's a link to bite sized 32 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,040 Bison from there. Subscriptions available 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,240 throughout the course of the year and you're going to want 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,800 this information about IU football. 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,639 If you're watching this, you're clearly an IU football fan. 36 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,240 I think of what we do here at Crimson Cast is we try to 37 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,600 describe the the overarching questions about why, but 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,960 Taylor's here to tell us how and what. 39 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,120 And I think that that's a really important thing and it's 40 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,800 certainly a resource I rely on on a regular basis to try to 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,560 figure out what's going on with the team and what to be looking 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,440 at as we go through not just the pre season, but ultimately the 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,200 season season. So what's the what's the special 44 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,760 right now on bite sized Bison? Let the folks know. 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:50,200 I'll, I will say there might be like a day before the season 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,920 flash sale like like like keep your eyes out for that that week 47 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,640 before the few days before the season begins, there might be a 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:57,960 flash sale. Right now. 49 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,760 There's not really a deal on bite sized bison, but until 50 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,920 then, but I will say, Galen, I've been sending you a lot of 51 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,320 things. It's it's going to look 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,160 different than it has in in previous seasons. 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,040 If you've been following along for the last two seasons, some I 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,240 I think it'll be worth. It there's some great, some 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,560 great data vis there's some great charts, there's some great 56 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,280 utilization of data and there's some other cool things. 57 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,760 If you go to Bite Sized Bison right now, there's a pinned post 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,800 How to maximize your Bite Sized Bison subscription, and there's 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,240 going to be full access to a chat where we can talk as a 60 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,360 collective about what's going on with IU football. 61 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,320 You can comment on paid posts, you can participate in reader 62 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,480 polls. You get access to all the free 63 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,000 resources that are at Bite Size Bison as well as all the 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,400 newsletter posts. It's just, it's a really great 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:52,160 deal and you get a chance to learn about many of the things 66 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,520 that we're going to talk about on this podcast. 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,280 Position battles and what's going on, looking at what the 68 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,560 roster looks like overall, figuring out what to be thinking 69 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,600 of when you think about this IU team. 70 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,000 And as the season goes along, understanding what's happening 71 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,920 in the games from a statistical perspective. 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,520 If you've been listening to this podcast for long enough, you 73 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,560 know, we try to touch on, you know, what the implications from 74 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,120 S&P Plus are and what we're seeing in games in terms of 75 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:22,040 where IU is either excelling or struggling or just holding pat 76 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,040 in terms of both their offensive and defensive efficiency. 77 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,280 Taylor's going to go a lot deeper into that, so go check 78 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:30,920 out this and you'll be reading what I'm reading throughout the 79 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,520 course of the season if you do so. 80 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,000 So I'm trying. To say real fast, I don't 81 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:36,720 interrupt you, but thank you for all of that. 82 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:42,080 And also I appreciate how much you, how much you and Scott not 83 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960 only revised by them, but like credit it when you, when you 84 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,080 mentioned things that that you've read. 85 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,960 I listened to Scott's interview with Zion Brown and, and he 86 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,400 mentioned vice size bias me a couple times. 87 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,640 It's like, man, it's, it's so nice that knowing that you guys 88 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,840 read vice size bias and the people who I respect. 89 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:00,640 So watch read my material. So thank you. 90 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,000 Well, not to turn this into like a mutual admiration society, but 91 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,440 you know, as we've often said, like we, we want to see and hear 92 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,120 things about IU football. And I think especially, you 93 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,320 know, one of the problems it the problem is the wrong way of 94 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,640 putting it. But one of the things to keep in 95 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,040 mind about traditional media coverage from reporters and, and 96 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,920 even from a lot of blogs is that and even pie. 97 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,880 I think podcasts are maybe the biggest offender. 98 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:29,360 It's, it's hard to get nuts and bolts type of coverage about, 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,040 you know, the what and the how the things that I was talking 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,840 about earlier, like what is causing victories and, and 101 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,160 defeats. Because you know, historically 102 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,440 in, in sports journalism, the focus has been on, on stories 103 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,240 regarding people or stories regarding institutions. 104 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,360 And there's clearly that has a nice broad appeal. 105 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,280 We want to learn about the personalities in the 106 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:50,600 backstories. It's not to say that there's not 107 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,680 a place for those things, but there's also a need. 108 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,480 And I think we've seen this across not just college 109 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,960 football, but Pro Football and several other sports. 110 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,880 There's a real appetite for the numbers. 111 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,640 There's a real appetite for understanding like what's under 112 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,720 the hood with football. And it's such a fascinating 113 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,200 sport. It's such a, it's a it's 114 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,840 fascinating to me because it's a sport a lot of people think is 115 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:17,040 just kind of this dumb clash of physical beings, when in reality 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:23,160 it is this multi layered chess match every play and there's 117 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:28,480 like 1000 variables and there's innovation and there's there's 118 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,080 there's people falling out of favor. 119 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,440 There's all kinds of different things. 120 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,640 It's a fascinating subculture if you're into it. 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,880 Not everybody is. And I think it's one of the 122 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,080 things that we've tried to to get across with Crimson cast, 123 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,560 like not for everybody bite sized bison, maybe not for 124 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,440 everybody. But if you want to understand 125 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,640 how football works or you want to think about the more of the 126 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,920 strategic or tactical implications of some of the 127 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,800 things that are going on and how that might differ from the Tom 128 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,200 Allen era to the Kevin Wilson era to the Curt Signetti area. 129 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,080 This is these are the places to come for these things. 130 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,480 So we appreciate you, Taylor. You know, we we missed Punt, Jon 131 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,400 punt still. And they kind of touched on this 132 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,480 a bit. You've gone a lot deeper in some 133 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,360 areas. You know, it's just great to 134 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,640 have somebody in the space doing that. 135 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,280 So my thanks to you for giving us something that we've been 136 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,680 looking to read for a while. Yeah. 137 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Thank you. We are all here. 138 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,320 Well, Taylor's kind of he's in the mix, but we at the at the 139 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,840 Crimson cast are part of the back home network. 140 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,800 And just a reminder, the back home network is brought to you 141 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,440 by Home Field apparel, your place to go for the finest in 142 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,040 college fashions, the softest fabrics, the coolest designs, 143 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:38,240 the just the never ending cavalcade of great stuff that 144 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,240 they produce. 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So go check them out. 162 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,520 Again, Home field apparel, proud sponsor of the back home 163 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,760 network. Also, as I mentioned on the last 164 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,160 show, we have a new sponsor and it is Who's Your Game Day Lager 165 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,480 brought to you by the Upland Brewing Company. 166 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Who's Your Game Day Lager, the official craft beer of IU 167 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,840 Athletics, embodying who's your pride in every can. 168 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,600 Featuring the iconic cream and Crimson candy stripes, Who's 169 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,400 Your Game Day Lager is a classically smooth and 170 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,320 refreshing beer. 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Again, Upland Brewing Company 182 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,880 reminds you to drink responsibly. 183 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,600 Go Hoosiers. So let's dive in. 184 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,080 We wanted to talk, obviously if you haven't yet, folks, go 185 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,520 listen to Scott and Zion talking. 186 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,840 I have actually Taylor's ahead of me. 187 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,360 I haven't had a chance to actually listen to that podcast 188 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,920 yet, but we're really trying to ramp up the content and get more 189 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,040 information about what's going on with this football program 190 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,040 out to you. Before we got dive into some 191 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,200 positional discussion. One thing I wanted to touch on 192 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,720 the vibe around camp so far and, and what we're seeing in the 193 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,600 daily coverage and what we've heard from Kurt Signetti and his 194 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,880 staff. Like what is stuck out to you so 195 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,080 far? Just in terms of of what we've 196 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,440 been seeing coming out in the press and the words that we've 197 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,280 been hearing from the coaching staff so far or the players for 198 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:40,960 that matter. You know, I think just the, 199 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,040 well, the biggest thing that jumps out is the is was the 200 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,080 particular Omar Cooper quote that came out that several 201 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:55,960 people sent me about the change in vibe of practice and, and the 202 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:01,800 speed and intensity of practice in between Signetti and, and 203 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,360 Alan and. Just to just. 204 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,360 To be sure. Make sure everybody's on the 205 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,320 same page with quote. I'll just quote this. 206 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,120 This is from the the HT piece and this is from Omar Cooper, 207 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,320 junior IU wide receiver. I love Coach Allen, but last 208 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,040 year he wasn't as hard on us and yelling at us to pick up the 209 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,720 tempo and stuff. The fast-paced practice was a 210 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,000 little slower. That was a little different. 211 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,080 And, and we've heard kind of different variations of this 212 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,480 same theme over the course of not just summer but also spring. 213 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,720 There does really feel like the players are acknowledging 214 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,520 there's a much different vibe here than what we were used to 215 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,840 before. Yeah, yeah. 216 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,120 And I think, I think, you know, that's it, it, you know, I feel 217 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,640 like shows us a lot about the the position that the program is 218 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,240 in and has been in for the last, you know, year or two. 219 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,240 And, and, and that, you know, the, the position that Tom Allen 220 00:11:55,240 --> 00:12:00,080 was in as as head coach last year in in 2023 and, and how 221 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,920 Signeti has come in. And, and these these are common. 222 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,800 You know, these are these are common quotes from players who 223 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600 are carryovers from a previous administration into a new one. 224 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:14,400 And that there's always some sort of increased intensity, 225 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,240 especially if it is a a program that that let go of the coach. 226 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,400 So, you know, I, I think that it, it, I mean the things that 227 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,080 I've heard, they sound good. You know, obviously there are 228 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,760 some, some injuries that you are a little concerned, you don't 229 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,920 hope are lingering. But but yeah, from from that, 230 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,840 from that specific quote, I think you can take away, you 231 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,720 know, quite a bit from that one. Yeah, obviously the news hasn't 232 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,400 all been positive. There was a an unfortunate 233 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,760 season ending injury that happened and what talk a little 234 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,280 bit about that maybe to start with, since that is a positional 235 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,680 thing, obviously, but you know, that's that's a real problem for 236 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:02,360 IU and at a position that they really can't afford a whole lot 237 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,520 more problems at. Yeah, yeah, Nick Kidwell, the 238 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,920 the transfer from James Madison who missed most of last season 239 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,360 because of injury as well. And you know, he in 20/22 he was 240 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,640 he was good. He was one of their tackles and 241 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,360 performed well. And in his last season he was, 242 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,880 you know, pretty like, you know, average amongst FBS offensive 243 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,720 lineman and and passing grade, which was going to be very 244 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,200 significant to this offensive line. 245 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,400 And then losing him to a season ending injury is is tough. 246 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,920 I'm sure he'll probably get some sort of a hardship waiver that 247 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,720 will make him available for next season, which could be helpful. 248 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,880 But his eighth, his eighth year in power. 249 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,400 His eighth year in power. Yeah, right. 250 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:54,120 Like, yeah, yeah, it's, it's which means he was being 251 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,680 recruited, I think during the Obama administration. 252 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,600 Initially, perhaps, but now it's. 253 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,320 So yeah, yeah, it's tough. It's tough and we'll talk about 254 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,960 that a little bit. But but I mean, overall, it does 255 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,360 feel like there's been a lot of positive of talk coming out of 256 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,240 of camp. A lot of the assistant coaches 257 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,840 seem to be talking very positively about things. 258 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,040 Obviously things I think are still going to be kept somewhat 259 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,320 close to the vest just in terms of how things are going. 260 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,680 It does appear that like Curtis Rourke is clearly establishing 261 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,480 himself as the number one QB, which I think everybody expected 262 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,280 would be the case. And, you know, we're close 263 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,400 enough now that, you know, the whatever words that we're trying 264 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,320 to parse from camp become less and less important because soon 265 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,360 we'll just see the product on the field. 266 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,640 And that's an. That's always a good spot to be 267 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,440 in, I think. Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of I'm, I'm 268 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,160 kind of I think Zion said this in in the podcast, kind of in 269 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,840 wait and see mode now. You know, like we're we're close 270 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,840 enough to where, you know, as long as we don't have any more 271 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:08,240 Nick Kidwell situations, you know, we are getting Indiana is 272 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,720 getting what it's getting from cursing Nettie and this turned 273 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,160 over, you know, program so as far as staff and rosters. 274 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,440 So it's it'll be interesting to see what week 1 looks like. 275 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,400 And it's coming. I mean, I mean, August is flying 276 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:26,320 by. So, so it's it's yeah, it, but 277 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,080 yeah, I mean nothing, nothing too unusual or unexpected coming 278 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,200 out of coming out of the out of camp. 279 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,680 The he was, I will say Signetti was pretty honest about Tave and 280 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,200 Jackson and and kind of where he's at in relation to Curtis 281 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,720 Rourke, which was honestly refreshing. 282 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,440 So, you know, he's hasn't named him starter yet, but I think 283 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,640 that's more out of respect for Tavan and and the position that 284 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,000 he held before Signetti and everybody else got here. 285 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,160 So, but yeah, I would expect Curtis Rourke to start there. 286 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,880 So let's dive into some of the positions more, Jen, or more 287 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,880 specifically, I guess as we go through this. 288 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,400 I mean, so, you know, maybe this, this should start with 289 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,760 where we have been up to this point in terms of thinking about 290 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,800 the different roles that are going to be filled by players 291 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,640 and how those roles coalesce within the position groups. 292 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,680 And, you know, maybe we start off with a question I know we've 293 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,560 gotten from a lot of our our Twitter followers and we've 294 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,800 gotten these questions as well on the discord. 295 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,520 You know, what are the positions in your mind that are going to 296 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,920 be the most foundational to success or failure this year for 297 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,960 IU? I mean, if you had to rank order 298 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,480 them, maybe the top three. And then like, what does it look 299 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,800 like right now as far as each of those positions? 300 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,040 So I'll, I'll let you start there. 301 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,360 Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, I, I, I would 302 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,320 probably discount quarterback from this because obviously, but 303 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,960 the, but the, the top three, I would say, well, especially now 304 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,840 number one is probably offensive line and particularly interior 305 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,040 offensive line. I think a lot of folks including 306 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,920 myself are kind of chalking up the tackles to be kind of 307 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,800 automatic and like like automatically productive with 308 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,000 Trey Wettig and Carter Smith. I think there's something to 309 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,920 prove there too. I think that's not necessarily 310 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,440 as guaranteed as it might feel, but but that offensive line and, 311 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,839 and, and you know, replacing Nick Kidwell when you really 312 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,920 only had one true guard in the 1st place is going to be 313 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,040 difficult because left guard was looking like Tyler Stevens. 314 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,840 And I'm not really sold on Tyler Stevens. 315 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,640 And so, you know, the, the trio of Stevens and Bray Lynch and 316 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,600 Drew Evans is going to be the interior or the guards and 317 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,960 obviously Mike, Mike Haydock at the center. 318 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,840 So, you know, though, I mean, the guards are just going to 319 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,280 really have to step up and, and, and play well. 320 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,480 But, you know, I think if there is any any sort of like 321 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,600 deterioration along the offensive line, I think this 322 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,120 staff has already proven that it can and, and, and might lean on 323 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,720 its passing game even more so than it did in the past. 324 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,120 So I think, you know, offensive line number one, defensive line 325 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,680 number two. And with and with defensive 326 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,400 line, I think, you know, there's been some positive talk about 327 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,120 Mikhail Kamara coming out of camp. 328 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,000 I kind of want to see it for myself personally. 329 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,600 And, you know, Jacob Mango Farrar making the transfer to 330 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,240 stud. I think is, is is is also a 331 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,680 question mark the the center of the defensive line. 332 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,560 I think is, is, is good. I think James Carpenter and CJ 333 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,440 West are about as guaranteed as anything else along that 334 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,160 defensive line. So, yeah, so the, I guess the 335 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,200 interior offensive line, the exterior defensive line is, is, 336 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,760 is the biggest concern for those for honestly for the entire 337 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,240 roster. But then #3 I think he goes 338 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,280 several different directions, but it's obviously wide 339 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,480 receivers. But I mean, I would just say the 340 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,640 entire defensive backfield probably, probably cornerbacks. 341 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,680 Honestly, I think I think a lot of guys are really going to have 342 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,680 to step up there. Nick Toomer got moved back to 343 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,920 cornerback and and it's pretty it's pretty thin there. 344 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:19,080 DeAngelo Pons, you know, he's, he's, I mean, he is he show what 345 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,720 he is at James Madison and he's gotten positive, positive 346 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,080 support from Signeti coming out of summer camp or fall camp. 347 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:31,680 But you know, that I, I'm also kind of a wait and see MO with D 348 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,920 Angelo Pons just making that jump being a true sophomore. 349 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,280 I kind of want to see it. And as far as the second spot 350 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,600 goes, I mean, Jamari Sharp was not super impressive last year. 351 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,920 And even though he did play a lot, Jamir Johnson was hurt. 352 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,360 I think he could be OK, but Nick Toomer might end up being that 353 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,800 second cornerback, which might say something for the rest of 354 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,400 the room since he was playing with safeties not long ago. 355 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,920 So yeah. Now, there's an interesting 356 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,400 aspect to a lot of the the projections of these folks that 357 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,240 I think is important to keep in mind. 358 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,840 And I and it's something that dovetails with some of what I've 359 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,280 been seeing out of the individual assistants and the 360 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,200 way that there's been some discussion from the players 361 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,200 about the way the practice are being conducted. 362 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,920 I mean, this is always the tough part about projections. 363 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,680 Because all we have to rely on is the film and the statistics 364 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,120 that were generated in the previous year or previous couple 365 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:30,800 of years. And there's two different 366 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,640 sources of uncertainty with this right now. 367 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,400 There is the uncertainty of what's been talked about a lot, 368 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,800 the transition of the JMU players up to this level and the 369 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,680 fact that the well, they produced really well at that 370 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,080 level. But that's that level. 371 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,840 That's the Sunbelt, you know, it's not, it's not the level of, 372 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,280 of where you're at here. Does that translate to the Big 373 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,120 10? I've not been that concerned 374 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,480 about that because I, I do feel like with proper coaching and 375 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,840 technique, there's not actually that much of A delineation at 376 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,120 least between the middle of the Big 10 and what you'll find 377 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,560 there. It's really the upper stages. 378 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,640 Where that becomes a bigger issue with the other question 379 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,560 becomes of the players that were here the previous few years when 380 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:22,280 Indiana went nine and 27 / 3 seasons, how much more can they 381 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,920 produce with a different coaching approach, a different 382 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,400 schematic approach? You know, do do we accept that 383 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,640 their productivity levels have a natural cap in terms of how much 384 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,680 they might improve just from a year to year basis? 385 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,880 Or are there some untapped potentials with the roster 386 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,800 holdovers that might actually significantly elevate because 387 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,000 they have some superior athletic talent to now go along with some 388 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,480 superior coaching approaches? Yeah, no, that's, that's a great 389 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,160 question. And, you know, some, some guys 390 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,520 that come to mind when I think about that are like Josh 391 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,040 Sanguinetti, who is, I mean, I, I think he's probably the 392 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:07,200 favorite to be free safety just based off of skill sets within 393 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,240 that room and, and, and his experience and, and the fact 394 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,720 that they did bring him back, which I wasn't, I wasn't, you 395 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,120 know, expecting that. I, I will, I haven't been too 396 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,560 impressed by Josh Sanguinetti. So can yeah, like you were 397 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,600 asking, can, you know, a change in a change in staff, a change 398 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,000 in approach can that, you know, cannot change things for Josh 399 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,840 Sanguinetti. And you know, there there are 400 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,000 others as well, but I think, you know, somebody that you can 401 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:39,080 probably point to and be like, you know, there's a possibility 402 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,760 for that is Mike Haydick and and the way that he has improved 403 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,640 after Bob Oostak came to town after Darren Hiller. 404 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,840 So, you know, those are two different examples. 405 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,720 So you're right. And, and I, my approach to this 406 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,280 is that especially when we're talking about like there's so 407 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,960 many players in this roster who are making the jump from some 408 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,640 lower level up into the Big 10. And my approach is that some 409 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,200 guys are going to hit and some guys are not. 410 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,680 And we don't really know who those are. 411 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,480 I don't even know if the coaches know who those are because a lot 412 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,080 of coaches haven't coached in the Big 10. 413 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:21,440 And so, you know, I, I don't, I don't, I, I obviously nobody has 414 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,480 the answer to that question. And I guess that's the point 415 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,480 that I'm trying to make. Yeah, I know. 416 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,280 And it's, and I then I didn't ask it with the idea that you 417 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,680 had the answer. If you did, we would have, we 418 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,000 would have stopped the podcast and we would have gone into 419 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,840 business together because that would have been great. 420 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:41,280 But no, I, I look at it like this, there's a, you have to 421 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,800 give, I think a new staff that's had the success that this staff 422 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,320 has had at taking, you know, talent at the level that they 423 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,200 took it and turning it so quickly into a group that could 424 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,120 work together 'cause it's not just about individual skills. 425 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,440 It's also about the schematic structure of either the offense 426 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,920 or the defense or the blocking scheme as it relates to the 427 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,160 offense. I mean, a lot of a lot of the 428 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,920 problems last year with the offensive line might have been 429 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,160 addressed through a different scheme or a different approach. 430 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,840 And many people whose memories last longer than maybe a month 431 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,480 will remember that. Like there was a lot of 432 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,720 consternation about I us approach on offense last year 433 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,560 that led to, you know, the a change in in coaching leadership 434 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,280 because it was like, why are why is IU trying to do something 435 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,320 that they clearly don't have the personnel to do? 436 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,760 And when you do that, you end up putting your players in a 437 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,880 position where they look significantly worse than they 438 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,600 actually are because they are being asked to do things that 439 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,000 they can't do, or they're being asked to support things that 440 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,880 they can't effectively work with. 441 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,000 And so you end up with this. And then that leads to 442 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,720 confidence issues, which leads to more performance issues. 443 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,080 And then the whole thing spirals. 444 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,200 And it's why it's so easy. I was thinking about, you think 445 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,320 about an NFL team, like most NFL teams are pretty close to each 446 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,240 other in terms of actual talent level. 447 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,520 But it's the scheme, it's the approach. 448 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,800 It's the way that players are asked to do certain things. 449 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,560 And you can tell when a team A-Team can be really good one 450 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,520 year, can make the playoffs, can, you know, can, can win a 451 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,120 game in the playoffs. And then the next year they're 452 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,240 they're seven and 10 or they're 6:00 and 11:00. 453 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,520 And it's like, well, what the hell happened? 454 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,480 Like the personnel was essentially the same. 455 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,480 Did the players all get worse? And most of the time, no, most 456 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,520 of the time what happened was either you had players in the 457 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,400 wrong spots doing things that they couldn't do, or you had a 458 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,480 scheme that didn't match what the players could do. 459 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,840 And that's a common issue. It's why coaching is so 460 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,560 difficult because that, that, that alchemy changes every year 461 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560 and you have to adapt it. And then so I, I just think with 462 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,120 this, it's such a fascinating mix. 463 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,080 And you know, the more I see rankings of, you know, people 464 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,480 get upset about IU was ranked 83rd or 84th in in college 465 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,520 football. And it's like, well, you are 466 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,160 relying on, as we've talked about before on the show, you're 467 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,880 relying on whatever date is in front of you. 468 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,440 And we know that if you just take the productivity at JMU, if 469 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,880 you take the productivity of the players that were at IU and you 470 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,720 lock them together and you put, well, here's the schedule and 471 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,480 here's what we think. But it's not accounting for what 472 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,120 is likely to be a, a seismic shift in philosophy on both 473 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:22,560 sides of the bowl about how all this stuff conducts. 474 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,480 And so it's where it's, you know, you look at some of the 475 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,480 names you mentioned, like in the in the defensive backfield. 476 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,200 And it's hard to say how that will actually translate to this 477 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,080 level with that position group and also who might emerge 478 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,240 because they're being asked to do things that perhaps are 479 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,360 closer to their skill set. That is something that I'm 480 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,680 really fascinated by. And what else? 481 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,280 A Galen too. And, and when they changed 482 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,640 offensive coordinators last season, I, I, I created a, a 483 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,640 draft of like a cumulative EPA of, you know, estimated points 484 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,680 added per play and, and plotted it for the last five seasons. 485 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,920 And offensive EPA pretty much right when Rod Carey took over, 486 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,640 started to increase. It was decreasing and then it 487 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,480 began to increase and it ended up finishing, you know, by a 488 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,520 substantial margin, third of the last five seasons behind 2019 489 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,600 and 2020. And and it was headed the same, 490 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,840 you know, direction as 21 and 22. 491 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,000 But like you're saying that the scheme can really transcend a 492 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,240 lot of and a lot of talent because of what Signeti has 493 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,600 already said in the past the spring, which is that, you know, 494 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,480 he's planning and he's, you know, preparing his staff to 495 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,600 create a scheme that works with the the players that they have. 496 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,000 And so that's always been promising to me as far as, you 497 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,760 know, if, if they don't have the most talent, which which I mean, 498 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,320 they don't because Ohio State and Michigan are also in this 499 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,600 conference, but they, they can put them in the right places 500 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:59,200 like you were saying. And so, you know, you end up you 501 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,880 end up saying the same things that you've been saying for 502 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,520 months because there hasn't been any football played. 503 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,480 But it is, it is what it is, you know. 504 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,320 And so that's something to keep in mind that might have been 505 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:09,800 forgotten in the spring, I guess. 506 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,520 And and I'd, I'd like that you brought that up. 507 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,840 What when you think about other position groups that are in the 508 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,160 mix here, I mean, you've got obviously there's certain things 509 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,480 we and, and I the one last thing I'll say about the previous 510 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,560 point. I didn't want to forget this 511 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,640 before I move to this next point. 512 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,600 I there is a difference, I think, in in terms of there are 513 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,800 certain position groups where there's only so much that scheme 514 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,600 and coaching can do. At the end of the day, it's 515 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,280 really about the raw materials in this case being the players 516 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,320 and what their physicality is. So offensive line has this has 517 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,000 always been the biggest issue for IU is that it's been very 518 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,840 hard for them, except in the Kevin Wilson era, to recruit the 519 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,720 right types of offensive line recruits who can play at the Big 520 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,080 10 level. And I think it's one of the 521 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,040 things that Wilson didn't get enough credit for was how 522 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,480 quickly they turned that around and got like multiple like NFL 523 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,240 caliber offensive lineman playing at IU, which we didn't. 524 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,040 I mean, the previous 15 years you're like is not even 525 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,840 possible, you know, but so, you know, I do think that that kind 526 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,120 of a thing is interesting now, you know, with wide receiver 527 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,240 with, with the defensive backfield, with a couple of 528 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,240 other position groups. I do think that as long as 529 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,200 you've got some core physical skills, but you may not have the 530 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,400 perfect prototype. You may not have a receiver room 531 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,800 full of 6/4 guys with, you know, Velcro hands, but you can make 532 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:32,200 do with assets that work in ways that are best utilized in a 533 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,080 clever manner where it's like we're going to take this 534 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,240 person's best aspects and use them for that and not ask them 535 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,120 to do things that they can't do. And that is so that's the one 536 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,720 other thing. And it's where I, I'm curious 537 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,640 with your, because you mentioned the difference between the 538 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,320 interior defensive line where physic, I think the physical 539 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,800 nature of the players is probably the most important 540 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,800 versus your, your edge players on the defensive line. 541 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,800 Do you feel like that's something that you can get 542 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,760 around a little bit, even if you don't have like maybe top end 543 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,280 pass rushing talent? You know if can you get around 544 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,800 it from a physicality perspective by doing some 545 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440 different things scheme wise with the exterior defensive line 546 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,960 that maybe you couldn't get away with with the offensive line. 547 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,800 Yeah, Yeah, I think so. I think. 548 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,480 If you can't, please tell me because I don't want to get. 549 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,560 I'm kidding. No, Yeah, right, right. 550 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,520 No, I think I think defensive end is a little bit more of a 551 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,640 struggle. You can teach technique and but 552 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,360 at the end of the day, there's a reason why these like Big Chase 553 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,160 Young's go to Ohio State and stuff. 554 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,280 You know, I, I think I, but I will say that there have been, 555 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,680 there have been, so I can't remember his name off the top of 556 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120 my head. Jamie Chroma, I think was his 557 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,640 name, who was a defensive end for James Madison last year, but 558 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,600 he was at Rutgers and then he transferred to James Madison. 559 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,440 Obviously that's moving down a level, but he became incredibly 560 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:07,040 productive and, and, and with this with, you know, Pat Koontz 561 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,080 as his defensive line coach. And obviously you have Buddha 562 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,680 Williams coaching them now, but you know, those guys are paid a 563 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,680 lot of money. Like Pat Koontz and Buddha 564 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,960 Williams are paid a lot of money and, and they're both handling 565 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,200 the defensive line. And so there is a lot of 566 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,040 attention being given to that, that, that position group. 567 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:33,800 And so, you know, they, they, they have a lot of, you know, 568 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,040 great talent on the defensive. I'm, I'm not trying to take 569 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,440 anything away from the defensive line, but, but there's, there is 570 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,080 a lot more talent elsewhere. And so that's why you pay the 571 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000 coaches a lot of money to, to, to get that technique to where 572 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,120 it needs to be. But yes, as far as scheme goes, 573 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,280 you can scheme as far as, as far as I understand, Brian Haynes's 574 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,200 defensive philosophy is that they are planning to attack from 575 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,800 the center of the defensive line. 576 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,080 And so if you can coach those guys to really attack and then 577 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,680 cause havoc, then that may be take some pressure off of the 578 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,840 defensive ends to use their physical, you know, capabilities 579 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,240 to get around tackles. But I will say defensive end is, 580 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,080 is pretty predicated on, on physical skill set as well. 581 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,160 So, but I, I don't think it's out of the out of, you know, the 582 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,280 realm of possibility. Let's So anyway, going to the 583 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,920 question that I was originally asking before, I just found that 584 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,720 unnecessary side pathway. So what? 585 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,960 Where do you feel like the biggest variance is in the 586 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,640 position groups like the kind of the the delta between what a bad 587 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,160 year and a good year would be just based upon a lack of 588 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,480 understanding of what Indiana's got to deal with could. 589 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,720 You ask that question again, GAIL, sorry. 590 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,000 What position? I'm sorry, I've I've phrased it 591 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,800 terribly. What positions do you feel like 592 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,000 there's the greatest uncertainty in terms of this could be an 593 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,920 amazing position group or this could be a position group that 594 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,160 actually ends up not being very amazing at all, But we're just 595 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,560 not totally sure because of the players and we don't know how 596 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,040 they're going to actually work when the rubber hits the road? 597 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,920 Yeah, I'll start with safety. Safety, the safety has a lot of 598 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,240 talent and it has a lot of guys that fit a strong safety build, 599 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,320 which is interesting. There are not a lot of guys that 600 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,160 fit a free safety build and which makes me think that they 601 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,160 are looking to rotate a lot of safeties this year until 602 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,760 somebody, you know, steps up and takes the job. 603 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640 I think right now the only safety that I can really think 604 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,680 of well between the Rover spot and then strong safety and free 605 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,520 safety is Sean Asbury. I would assume that he's 606 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,320 probably starting a strong safety. 607 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,680 He looks really good in the spring game and we've only heard 608 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:52,280 really good things about him. And so I think he's he he's he's 609 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,000 probably pretty solid. But after him, I don't think 610 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,160 there's really anything certain, at least from from any outsiders 611 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,800 perspective, about who is playing the other positions. 612 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,320 And you know, when when you watch James Madison play, they 613 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,520 essentially just play with three safeties. 614 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,880 And so, you know, if that room doesn't step up, that's all 615 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,000 that's a lot of real estate to be surrendering on the on the 616 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,679 defensive side of the ball. Like we kind of saw in the past, 617 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:21,199 you know, the Husky, Husky never really after Marcellina ball 618 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,760 never really was super productive and that kind of cost 619 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,360 the defense. And that's just one player. 620 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,480 So, you know, yeah, I think safety is one where if they 621 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,440 don't step up, it could really be costly. 622 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:40,400 I would also say, I would also say wide receivers and and like 623 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,520 the wide receivers, the passing game has to be good this year 624 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,679 and, and the six of six of the wide receivers are leaving. 625 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,920 Curtis Rourke is leaving after the season, barring any injuries 626 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,600 that would result them in using their red shirt season because a 627 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,159 lot of them do have the red shirts available. 628 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,280 There aren't going to be a lot of these guys leftover. 629 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,360 And so how do you build a passing attack out of them and 630 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,800 can they all step up? Probably one of my own most 631 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,000 unpopular opinions amongst IU football fans is that I'm slow 632 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,800 to be as hyped about Donovan Nicoli as a lot of others are. 633 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,680 I think he's going to serve a very particular role on the 634 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,440 perimeter and especially in the red zone. 635 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,800 But that is somebody who made the transition from quarterback 636 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,840 to wide receiver. Even though he did flash a lot 637 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,120 of potential and like real physical gifts, that guy is 638 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,400 amazing. He is also extremely 639 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,240 unexperienced compared to a lot of the other receivers in this 640 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,600 room. So, you know, when you look at 641 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,120 the skill sets and how you can build a passing attack out of 642 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,960 this wide receiver room and also tight ends and running backs, 643 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,800 there's a lot of guys to get the ball to. 644 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,200 And you know, Donovan Mccoley is going to have to separate 645 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,920 himself as somebody who can play similarly to like an Elijah 646 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,240 Serra, even though he'd be playing two different roles in 647 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,200 this passing attack. But he's going to have to show 648 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,280 that he can do more than what he's done in the past, which is 649 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:06,320 mostly perimeter play. And so but you know, yes, that's 650 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,640 just one example. So I think that there are a lot 651 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,120 of guys in that wide receiver room that can really stop. 652 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,080 But but will they? And if they don't, that's going 653 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,880 to really hurt the offense. So I would say those two 654 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,320 positions come to mind first. Are, I mean, what do you, what 655 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,880 would you anticipate? Well, you and I were having this 656 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,320 conversation in terms of like looking at advanced statistics 657 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,880 when it comes to receiving core. And I mean, the Allen era kind 658 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,360 of devolved into a thing where the only people that were 659 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,360 regularly catching passes were wide receivers. 660 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,160 The tight ends weren't being used the way that they had been 661 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,600 like when Caitlin de Boer was here or even before that. 662 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,320 I know you've touched on this a little bit, but when we think 663 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,360 about receiving and, and just the, the, the, the passing game 664 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,680 in general, are you based upon what we've seen out of out of 665 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,560 Shanahan and Sinceri in the past? 666 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,480 Are you expecting a, a more wide-ranging approach to who 667 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,680 gets the ball thrown to them? And does that even out maybe 668 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,800 some of the uncertainties in terms of who in the wide 669 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,080 receiver room would necessarily need to step up? 670 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,120 I mean, there's a lot of receivers here and it's just, 671 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,520 it's going to be interesting kind of watching that that 672 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,480 combination play into the mix if they're also going to use tight 673 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,400 ends and running backs in the process as well. 674 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,840 Yeah, yeah, No, I I think it will be more wide rate. 675 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,280 I think it'll be a lot more balanced. 676 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,960 I think a lot of the different offensive packages you'll see 677 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,640 are are will probably they'll probably still involve tight 678 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,320 ends, obviously at I think I'm a big tight ends guy. 679 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,600 So I think tight ends will will definitely be involved, 680 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,160 especially Zach Horton and Trey Walker I think as well. 681 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,200 But when you look at Galen, I sent you this as a draft of 682 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,760 something I'll be putting out each week. 683 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,240 But it when you look at the pass catchers, everybody on this 684 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:58,000 roster, the pass catchers EPA per target last season, so 685 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,840 estimated points added per target. 686 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,880 Caitlin Black actually had a pretty high value when when 687 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,720 compared to all the all the other running backs. 688 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,680 He is like significantly higher just because he's really 689 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,920 explosive and he's effective in the passing game. 690 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,960 But James Madison did not have a very good offensive line last 691 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,080 year. So it was necessary just to give 692 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,680 him the ball. So that is something that he can 693 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,560 do is something that justice Ellison doesn't do super well 694 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,800 and Tyson Mall and does a little bit, but but Caitlyn Black 695 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,000 getting involved in the passing game. 696 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,040 So you know, it's kind of a a spoil of riches when you look at 697 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,880 each individual pass catcher, but then how do they mesh 698 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,520 together in in in a single passing game? 699 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,200 I think will be be interesting to watch at this point. 700 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,320 I kind of forgot what your question was, but. 701 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:50,360 You largely answer. I mean, the kale and black 702 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,160 thing's an interesting one because again, it's like you 703 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,040 look at the you look at the players that you, I mean, you 704 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,480 got the thing about you, Donovan McCauley, you've got Omar Cooper 705 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,320 Junior, you've got Elijah Surratt, you've got Miles Cross, 706 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,520 you've got EJ Williams, who's still on the roster. 707 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,920 You've got Trey Walker, you know, and and James Bondas in 708 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,360 the mix. There's there's a bunch of 709 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,480 different options. And it, and I guess where I'm 710 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,360 where I'm going with this is as we think about the 711 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,560 conceptualization of how good the wide receiver room might be 712 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,280 and, and what that will mean for the overall offensive health of 713 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,000 this program. You know, what I'll note is like 714 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,120 if you look at last year's statistics, of the top six pass 715 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,720 catchers in for IU for the course of the season, the top 716 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:39,840 five were all wide receivers. You know, Mccully had caught 48 717 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,720 balls. Daquis Carter, Cam Camper, EJ 718 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,960 Williams, Omar Cooper, Jalen Lucas, who wasn't really a 719 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,320 running back, You know, he was like a specialist. 720 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:55,840 He he caught 34 balls, but only for 7.2 yards per catch. 721 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,800 And then like the highest if you, if you take Jay Lucas out 722 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,520 of the mix, Josh Henderson catches 8 or 10 balls through 723 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,640 eight games and Trey Walker catches 10 balls through 11 724 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,880 games. And everybody else, like there 725 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,200 wasn't another Trent Howland caught 3 balls. 726 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,960 Christian Turner caught 4 balls for a combined 0 yards. 727 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,120 And, and you know, the idea is ultimately, you know, the when 728 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,200 you put that much pressure on the wide receivers. 729 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,280 To do all of the catching it, especially if you don't have a 730 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,920 running game to really back it up. 731 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,240 And, and you know, if you're not playing in that style, it just 732 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,720 leads to a different set of expectations of what you might 733 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,280 get. And I mean, obviously Indiana's 734 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,920 offense was very sick last year, even in the running backs, The 735 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,640 the leading rusher for the entire season had 354 yards on 736 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,360 75 carries. Like it was, it was, it was grim 737 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,440 that that's where I'm thinking with this as we try to 738 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,120 anticipate with the wide receiver group, how will they 739 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,720 do? What will that room look like? 740 00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:01,360 At the end of the day, it almost becomes kind of a survival of of 741 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,440 the the top players thing there. Because if you're able to spread 742 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,760 the ball out a little bit more, you really have to do well when 743 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,800 you're out there as a wide receiver to continue to get the 744 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,360 repetitions. And that might lead to internal 745 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,720 competition among that group for who even gets those reps in the 746 00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,520 1st place if they aren't just having to be out there every 747 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,320 time because they're the only ones that can catch balls. 748 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,200 Does that make sense? Yes, yeah, it, it does, it does. 749 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,240 And when I was I, I wrote, I wrote it somewhere and I, I 750 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:38,400 can't find it anymore. But the, when you looked at and, 751 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,520 and the, and obviously they haven't had this sort of tight 752 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,160 end talent since AJ Barnard left. 753 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,400 But when, when you look at the best offenses at Indiana and, 754 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,720 and in recent years, they got the tight ends involved and in 755 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:54,160 the passing game, especially in 2019 with Hendershot and you 756 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,600 know, and, and I, I think that's like, obviously there isn't a 757 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,280 whole lot. There hasn't been a whole lot of 758 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,600 tied in talent, but at the same time you have you have to get 759 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,400 them involved, like they have to be involved. 760 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,520 And and if you don't have those pass catchers like you were 761 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:15,560 saying, you know, it really flattens your passing schemes. 762 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,600 And and like when you when you have somebody like a Caitlin 763 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,120 Black who can catch out of the backfield, you know that that's 764 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,840 just one more thing that the defense has to account for. 765 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:29,280 And so when you and and I will say to slot receiver really is a 766 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,720 huge improvement on this roster. Yeah, go on. 767 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,840 I'd like to hear more. Blot filler was the last real 768 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,320 true slot. I mean DJ Matthews, but he can 769 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,120 never stay healthy. And so you know, blot filler was 770 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,880 the last true slot receiver they had in 2020. 771 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,800 And so having a slot receiver, especially two of the caliber of 772 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,800 Miles Price and Keyshawn Williams, I mean, that's, that's 773 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,720 huge. And, and just the, the security 774 00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,960 blanket that those two guys have already provided for previous 775 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:04,200 quarterbacks and, and Curtis Rourke, you know, being, you 776 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,480 know, fairly new to the system and to the program. 777 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,920 I think those two guys are going to be huge and what they can do. 778 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,600 But yeah, I mean, I, I think, yeah, you're, you're right, 779 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,480 Galen, I'm just adding to what you're saying. 780 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,520 No, it's fine. It's interesting. 781 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:24,520 Can you name the last season that IU had a player catch 50 or 782 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,000 more balls and who that player was? 783 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:37,040 50 or more. Well, it had to be watfilier. 784 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,280 It was watfilier. It was watfilier and I mean 785 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,200 probably 2019. So is that so? 786 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,800 He actually caught 54 in 2020, which which I feel like doesn't 787 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,680 get as much because that was over eight games, which is nuts. 788 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,160 Over over 12 games last year, Donovan Mcculley was the leading 789 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,200 receiver and only caught 48 balls. 790 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,960 And but what's fascinating is you go back to 2019, which the, 791 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,080 you know, the one year Caitlin de Boer is the OC here. 792 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:11,960 Wapfillier caught 70 balls for 1002 yards and Peyton Hendershot 793 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,280 caught 52 balls for 622 yards. And I remember you and I having 794 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,560 conversations that year about how that relatively unexpected 795 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,280 sudden leveraging of the tight end position just opened up so 796 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,680 many more opportunities for receivers. 797 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,960 It was, it wasn't just Filier who was getting all of those 798 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,640 slot cap, you know, receptions, but it was also Ty Fry, Fogle 799 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,200 and Nick Westbrook that year were also getting opportunities. 800 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,160 Donovan Hale caught 22 balls that year. 801 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:45,240 You know, I mean, which I mean, if I'd asked you that, I, I you, 802 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,360 you wouldn't have been able to name that off the top of your 803 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,240 head. But the reason I bring that up 804 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,720 is this new offensive staff coming in, You know, I'm I'm not 805 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:58,120 going to assume that you'll see Indiana step up offensively the 806 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,120 way they did between the the end of the Mike Deboard era at the 807 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,720 conclusion of the 2018 season and the sole year for Kaelin 808 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,560 Deboer. But I'll note going in, coming 809 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:15,800 out of 2018, the top 7 pass catchers for IU were all 810 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,200 receivers. It was, it was Westbrook, Hale, 811 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,120 Luke, Timian, Fry, Fogle, Jason Harris, Wopfilier, and then 812 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,400 Reese Taylor. There's a blast for the past. 813 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,840 That was your top seven pass catchers. 814 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,640 You had to go like Peyton Hendershot as a freshman was 815 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,960 eighth on that list. And no, no running backs, no 816 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,960 tight ends. It was all receivers. 817 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,520 And I'll, I'll throw Reese Taylor in there as essentially a 818 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,720 quasi receiver. And then you go to the next year 819 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,560 and Hendershot catches 52 balls, second on the team. 820 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,680 Stevie Scott catches 26 balls and he's 6th on the team. 821 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:59,480 That year, Indiana accrued 3931 yards in the passing game, which 822 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,520 was I know it's it's it's I used to dream of times like these. 823 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,440 That was 302 yards a game. The following year it was 250 a 824 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,000 game. The following year, 20/21, it 825 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,280 was 175. It was 217 two years ago. 826 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,360 It was 212 last year. So when I look at that gap, you 827 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,160 know, I look at that, that basically 75 to 80 yards a game 828 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,840 gap. I think a lot about this, the 829 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,840 talent in this receiving room, physical talent in terms of 830 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,240 Donovan Mccully experience, in terms of Serat. 831 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,120 You know, obviously Omar Cooper looks like a guy who could 832 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,680 really, you know, I mean, he only caught 18 balls last year 833 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:41,760 as a freshman, but he was second on the team in yards per 834 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,200 reception at 14.83. And I think he was, you know, he 835 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,600 was a little bit low in yards per game, but he only played 836 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,440 nine games. Gayle, can I add to the Omar 837 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:52,800 Cooper thing real fast before you move on? 838 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,720 He was second among all the all the pass catchers on the current 839 00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,960 roster. He was second in EPA per target, 840 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,680 just behind Donovan McAuley. He was really good. 841 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,000 And so when I look at that and I look at the potential of having 842 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,320 an improved tight end and running back pass catching 843 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,720 aspect, I look at that as a rising tide that can lift all 844 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,600 boats, including the rest of the boats in the receiver room. 845 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,400 Because that having to account for a tight end coming over the 846 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,880 middle or planting, you know, 7 yards downfield or having to 847 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,320 account for a running back kind of coming out of the backfield 848 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,040 as a pass catching threat causes the defense to not be able to 849 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,720 just play standard coverage against the receivers, which 850 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,680 opens up opportunities for them as well. 851 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,800 This was what we argued for most of last year. 852 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,240 It's like, why is Indiana trying to turn into a an option team or 853 00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:45,520 a team that's just running the ball? 854 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,240 This makes no sense because, you know, there were different 855 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,240 versions of this talent on the roster as well. 856 00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,080 And so not to re litigate last year, but the point is, as we 857 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,400 think about the wide receiver room, it's not just about here's 858 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,120 what the receivers did last year. 859 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,720 I think it's important to keep that context and think about 860 00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,320 what might get added to the mix given that we've got this new 861 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,040 philosophy and this new coaching staff. 862 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,440 Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, Yeah. 863 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,440 The, the, the big joke last year between you and I was that I was 864 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,880 a huge Dequise Carter fan and he never got used until like the 865 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,440 second-half, second third of the season or the last third of the 866 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,200 season. And, and, but it looks great. 867 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,000 And it was because it added another dynamic to the passing 868 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,200 game. And so you have a lot of guys 869 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,640 that can do things like that. Miles Cross is like, I think he 870 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,640 could be a game changer. Like just, I don't know, man, 871 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,960 there's just so much talent this wide receivers room. 872 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,280 It's almost. He's almost guaranteed to hit, 873 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,760 but I don't know. No, it's true. 874 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,280 And look again and it's philosophical differences, but 875 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,720 I, you know, if you, if you want to look at three seasons that 876 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,360 could point towards a a present and a future where Indiana is a 877 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,480 lot more adept at using the passing game. 878 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,840 Look at the last two years that Kevin Wilson was here and look 879 00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,440 at the one year that Caitlin de Boer was here. 880 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,640 I just ran through the de Boer numbers, but in the the, in the 881 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,160 second to last year, Wilson was here. 882 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,160 The Pinstripe Bowl year, Indiana had three guys who caught 54 or 883 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,000 more balls, had a guy who went for 1035 yards. 884 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,160 Who was that? Do you remember? 885 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,120 The guy what? What season was a 2016? 886 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:23,440 2015. 2015, that would have been ah, shoot, that wasn't Nick 887 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,840 Westbrook, was it? No. 888 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,000 Oh, man. Oh, who? 889 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,680 Oh, I'm going to kick myself. It's fine. 890 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,120 It's semi Cobbs was was. Oh yeah. 891 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:39,400 Semi Cobbs what, 60 catches 130 or 1035 yards and Ricky Jones 54 892 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,840 catches 906 yards that year. Going back to that number, we 893 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,360 were talking about trying to get around 300 yards per game 894 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,800 receiving. Indiana was at 293.8 that year 895 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,160 and then in the final year for Wilson, Indiana was at 273.8. 896 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,320 A little bit lower, but Nick Westbrook caught 54 balls, Ricky 897 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,960 Jones caught 53 and Mitchell Page caught 58. 898 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:07,440 You know, it is possible to by choice use the passing game in a 899 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,520 way where it's a primary methodology of moving the 900 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,520 football. And, you know, even in years 901 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,440 like that, when Indiana had a much better offensive line than 902 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,120 they've probably enjoyed overall the last few years, they were 903 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,920 using the passing game in a much more modern style. 904 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,880 And I think that that to me, when I think about not just the 905 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,480 receiving room, but also Curtis Rourke and how Indiana's going 906 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,960 to approach that side of of play, that opens up. 907 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,120 And I think it actually makes the offensive line's job easier 908 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,960 because you're, you're running run blocking is a lot. 909 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,040 There's there's a lot more physical impact on run blocking 910 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,680 because you don't have the added factor of being able to get the 911 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,960 ball out of the pocket quickly and throwing the ball. 912 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,400 You have to hand the ball off. So there's just some basic like 913 00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:57,120 physical philosophical differences in how these things 914 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,840 operate. So we'll see. 915 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,080 I could do, we could be sitting here at the end of September and 916 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,120 being like, well, that was we really talked ourselves into 917 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,560 that one, didn't we? But I, I'm choosing to be 918 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,480 optimistic on this and I am really actually very excited 919 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,480 about wide receiver. But we talk about all this 920 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,320 because there is this big delta between. 921 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,840 We don't know what it could. We know what it could be, but we 922 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,600 don't know what it will be because there's a bunch of 923 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,080 factors. We're still waiting to actually 924 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,480 get a final read on before we can say for sure how Indiana's 925 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:24,560 going to conduct. Themselves. 926 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,240 Yeah, that's a great way to put it, Galen. 927 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,160 We know what it could be, but we don't know what it will be. 928 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,320 The Yeah. And I another note that I'll 929 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,800 make about the the difference in run blocking and pass blocking 930 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,840 is run blocking does depend quite a bit on talent and 931 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,160 physical skill set. And that's why a lot of teams 932 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,480 that don't have the most talent along the offensive line can't 933 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,000 really run the ball as well, especially in the Big 10 with 934 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,880 those defensive lines. But pass blocking is a lot more, 935 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,440 a lot, a lot more heavy on the technique. 936 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,920 And so if you can teach technique, especially a tackle, 937 00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,280 which, you know, seems to be in a good spot right now, you know, 938 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,440 that's it's just always seemed like they were building this 939 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,320 offense to be a pass first offense. 940 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,200 And so, yeah, they, I think you what everything that you every 941 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,040 note that you were making about the, the different layers of of 942 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,680 a passing scheme, I think that's like on point. 943 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,360 I think that's what's that's really what stands out the most. 944 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,720 And I even wrote it in the recap for the spring game. 945 00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,920 I was watching Trey Walker run out of a trip set on the outside 946 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,240 and running a mesh concept. I was like, what is happening 947 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:29,920 right now, Trey Walker? But yeah, no. 948 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,960 And it looked great. And he caught the pass and he 949 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,680 looked, I mean, it was it was it was awesome. 950 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,160 And and that was the most encouraging thing coming out of 951 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,120 that spring. Spring game for me was just like 952 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,240 how different the offense looked philosophically and how 953 00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:45,360 refreshing that was to see after seeing, you know, Caitlin Devore 954 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,800 in 2019 and then, you know, you and Kevin Wilson before that. 955 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,000 Let me let's finish off because I don't want to go much longer 956 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,360 than than an hour. Let's talk just a little about 957 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,160 special teams because that ends up always being at least a a 958 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,280 deciding factor. It feels like in one or two 959 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,360 games every year, either for or against IU, who could who could 960 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,640 forget Indiana winning at Michigan State for the first 961 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,240 time in forever because Michigan State couldn't kick the ball at 962 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:16,280 the end of the of regulation? What would you anticipate there? 963 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,440 Is Indiana in good shape as far as the different areas of 964 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,080 special teams? Are there areas that are 965 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,000 concerning to you? What's your overall read right 966 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,160 now on that? Yeah, I, I think, I think it's, 967 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,160 I mean, as far as like kicking goes, I think that I think 968 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,360 they're going to be good in a good spot. 969 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,440 They have James Evans again, his last season. 970 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,080 I think he is set to be one of the best punters in the nation. 971 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:43,680 Honestly, as long as he can kind of increase his precision, I 972 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,960 think that's the best. That's the thing that, you know, 973 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,680 can he get more balls down inside the 1020 yard line versus 974 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,920 can he, you know, really kick the ball far, which he had to do 975 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,520 last season because the offense was in such rough shape. 976 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,600 But yes, I think James Evans is good. 977 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,360 And then I think Derek McCormick. 978 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,840 I think Signetti said that Derek McCormick is their kickoff 979 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,960 special, is their kickoff kicker. 980 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,040 Not maybe not a specialist, but is competing for field goals. 981 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:11,680 I think he'll probably end up winning that one. 982 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,840 Yeah, I think he'll probably end up winning the the the field 983 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,080 goal competition. He was pretty solid the last 984 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,080 season. So I I think they're in a good 985 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,720 spot with with kicking much better than they were last year. 986 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,560 And then as far as like returning goes, I think they 987 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,520 have three guys who can really return the ball as long as 988 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,400 Solomon Van Horst can stay healthy, I think. 989 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,440 But Solomon Van Horst, he graded 5th in the SCS and kick off 990 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,280 returns in 2021. You know, it was a long time 991 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,800 ago. It was three seasons ago. 992 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,520 But like it's it's notable the talent is there. 993 00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,120 He's a really dangerous guy, especially on kickoffs, as long 994 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,080 as he can stay healthy. And so if you know, if that's 995 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,880 the only thing he's required to do at Indiana, he could pull it 996 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,080 off. And as far as, you know, punt 997 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,440 returns go, I think Miles Price is probably the number one guy 998 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,240 there. He did pretty well at Texas Tech 999 00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,680 with that and he has a lot of experience doing it, probably 1000 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,400 the most on the roster. And then Keyshawn Williams is 1001 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,880 also another guy who can return kicks, but he did he did mostly 1002 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:23,840 kickoffs as well. So yeah, I mean, special teams 1003 00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,440 seems to be in a good spot. Grant Kane is somebody who is 1004 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,520 kind of a dark horse on this staff, so and there's a special 1005 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,320 teams coordinator. So I think, you know, I think 1006 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,640 it's it's special teams is probably one of those things 1007 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,800 that it probably transfers more so than other as far as like 1008 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,720 talent level goes from different levels. 1009 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,600 It probably transfers more so than other positions because it 1010 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,000 is there's so much reliant on physical skill and and you know, 1011 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,920 you're you're catching punts and kick offs and and and field 1012 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,960 goals. It's all kind of the same 1013 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:06,200 technique and it's very much singular and and ability. 1014 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,920 So I, I, I wouldn't expect, I don't have too many concerns 1015 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,080 about special teams just based off of previous performances, 1016 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,240 which I think they did a really good job bringing guys in. 1017 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,920 We had a lot more to talk about, but we're not going to do it 1018 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,480 right now. We're going to do it later. 1019 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,320 So we'll have more content coming up for you as we continue 1020 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:27,920 to round in. We're going to get Taylor's 1021 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,440 thoughts hopefully before the season starts on, on how the 1022 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,440 season will go. You'll get Scott and I will 1023 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,080 weigh in. We'll do our normal season game 1024 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,880 by game projections, which I I I don't know that we've ever, ever 1025 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,800 gotten it right. So you could just use it to 1026 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,920 laugh at us as you move forward, but we'll have all that you. 1027 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,240 Get it right, Gay. Then we'll have to go in 1028 00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:54,120 business together. There you go, that's good, but 1029 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,240 no Taylor Layman from Bite Sized Bison. 1030 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,320 Thank you for joining us. Always great insights and 1031 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,640 looking forward to reading you and talking with you throughout 1032 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,960 the course of the season as we continue to cover this IU 1033 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:03,680 football. Program. 1034 00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:05,160 Yeah. Thanks for having me on Galen. 1035 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,000 And thanks to all of you folks for listening. 1036 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,000 We really appreciate it as always. 1037 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,480 And we'll be back with more on the back home network as we 1038 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,800 cover IU football and eventually IU basketball, both men's and 1039 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:20,240 women's coming up here very soon for Taylor from Bite Sized 1040 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,520 Bison, I'm Galen Clavio from Crimson Casting. 1041 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,800 Thanks for joining us here on the show and thanks to Home 1042 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,600 Field Apparel, our presenting sponsor. 1043 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,000 We will catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the 1044 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,680 Bison song, everybody.