1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,040 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:20,160 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Catskill 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,360 and Clavio Scott Caulfield. Here it is, Monday, March 11th 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,080 as we ring in the end of the regular season in college 5 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:30,960 basketball. Scott. 6 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:36,040 It's here once again as we've gone through a full what was it, 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,720 3031 games. 32 games on the season for Indiana so far. 8 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,560 And the season's not over yet, but the regular season is, and 9 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,080 Indiana ends up with a 10 and 10 record in conference. 10 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,280 They end up with an 18 and 13 record overall. 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,360 We're going to talk about all that coming up here soon. 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,480 We're going to talk about the game that closed off the season. 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,240 A lot of different things to talk about. 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,160 But Scott, first of all, let's talk about you. 15 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,240 How are you doing? You you were up early this 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,000 morning on Hoosier morning after. 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,760 So how does how was that experience? 18 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,240 Or did you have extra coffee to compensate for it? 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,520 I had the, the the requisite amount of coffee. 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,120 No, it was great. It was great being with Chad and 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,240 Martha. That was a really good time. 22 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,720 I feel like we should call this day like the end of the season. 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,480 It should be like like the Ken Palm end of projection day 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,000 because it's like Ken Palm is now like it's like just like 25 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,320 it's it's fun when they come out with the new Ken Palm for the 26 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:31,280 year. It's like now it's like it's the 27 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:33,000 the cement is hard on the season. 28 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,320 There is no more projection like the number is with the it's all 29 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:40,120 either green or red. But yeah, no, end of season it 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,360 was. It was fun talking a little bit 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,280 this morning and we'll do some more basketball talk now. 32 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,360 Yes, we will. Before we get to that, just 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,280 quick reminders folks. First of all go to home field 34 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,240 apparel, proud sponsor of the back home network. 35 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,840 This is of course it's it's it's March and that's when home field 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,400 shines, you know, it's just it's their, it's their period. 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,400 Like we should really just rename March Home field, you 38 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,840 know, January, February Home Field, April, May if. 39 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,520 I've ever heard one like wow. I'm shocked no one's thought of 40 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,000 it yet. And you're welcome, Connor and 41 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,240 and the crew, you can have that one for free, no Commission 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,200 required. Yes, don't use this podcast 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,480 money to buy March. Just like I figure out a way to 44 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,200 do both. But anyway, a great week this 45 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,000 week and and really this whole last couple of weeks as we have 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,280 seen home field continuing to unleash stuff. 47 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,920 They had vintage Jersey day today on Monday, they had fleece 48 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,120 mystery boxes this past weekend and just more stuff coming 49 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,400 there. There's going to be more jerseys 50 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:38,560 coming. There's going to be a bomber 51 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,720 jacket. Refresh all kinds of things, all 52 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,880 coming out of the home field factories as they're pumping out 53 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,760 materials and getting them to you, the audience. 54 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,520 So head over to home field apparel.com. 55 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,080 Use the code Home 23. 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So here we are, Scott. 77 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,320 We're going to go and get started with the show. 78 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,720 An interesting end of the season for Indiana. 79 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,760 Let's talk about the game first and then we'll take a a little 80 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,560 bit of a wider lens view of what happened with the season as a 81 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,200 whole. And then of course, because I 82 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,400 know everybody's asking about it, we're going to talk about 83 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,240 the post game, the Senior Day celebrations and whatnot. 84 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,839 But first, Scott. An odd game if it was anybody 85 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,040 else, but it was very much an Indiana game in as much as there 86 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,200 were multiple runs that were put on by both teams, Indiana 87 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,840 starting off with a 14 to two run, they led 20 to 5. 88 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:35,600 They were up 24/7 at one point, look like they were going to 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,520 salt the game away. And then of course Michigan 90 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,880 State slowly chips away in the second part of the first half 91 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,960 and that leads into a now almost patented 22 to two run given up 92 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,280 by Indiana straddling the two halves. 93 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:52,680 Very similar to what happened in the game at Penn State, although 94 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,800 this one was much bigger. That actually swung Penn State, 95 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:02,200 excuse me, swung Michigan State up to I think it was a 4336 96 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,480 lead. It was a it was a 7 point game 97 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,880 with about 15 minutes to go and it looked like Indiana was out 98 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,960 of juice from 43 to 36, which is what the score was. 99 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,280 Indiana ends up essentially shutting Michigan State's 100 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:21,800 offense down down the stretch. Indiana has a 12/2 run of their 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,680 own to take a lead that they would not relinquish. 102 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,560 It still came down to a final shot. 103 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,920 Michigan State missed that final shot. 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:34,080 Indiana comes away with the victory and they do so despite 105 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,880 really not having a great offensive game. 106 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,960 But as we've seen over the course of this last couple of 107 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,760 weeks, their defense really carried them and allowed them to 108 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,080 come away with the victory here. Oh, your overall thoughts, I 109 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,640 guess from from the way that the game went and and this being the 110 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,200 last game of the season in terms of what we saw out of Indiana in 111 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,000 the regular season? Yeah, I mean I I talked about it 112 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,360 this morning. You know the that 12 two run to 113 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,920 me was really a nice turning I mean turning point in the game. 114 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,600 But it's it's a nice moment to see because we've seen that so 115 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,360 many times where Indiana gets up, they give up the as you 116 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,160 mentioned the patented run. And then given all of kind of 117 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,880 the funky vibes that have been circling this team this week, 118 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,240 that second-half and that 10 minute mark, I mean at one point 119 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,560 Michigan State was like an 80% you know probability to win. 120 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,760 You could have packed it in and this team has packed it in at 121 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,960 that point in other times as well and just kind of wilt away 122 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,880 and lose. They didn't they They went on a 123 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,360 12/2 run. They found a way to win. 124 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,440 You know you you had just unbelievable performances out of 125 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,200 Kalil Ware who's just been turned, you know, has been 126 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,920 playing great all year, has really turned it up another 127 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,840 notch this last couple of weeks. You know Mackenzie and Baku, 3 128 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,760 for 9 from three, like just another really good game. 129 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,920 You know Malik, Renew again, Asabi and those are really your 130 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:48,760 three major offensive contributors. 131 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,240 But you know, it kind of not to get macro on the micro. 132 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,760 That's a good name for an album. By the way. 133 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,640 It's my 80s pop my yeah. But you know the The thing is 134 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,560 like it's just it's tough 'cause you you you leave the game kind 135 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,480 of being like damn this is this is what I I wish we would have 136 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,120 seen more of this earlier. I know you and I in the. 137 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,080 I was thinking back to the the beginning of the year. 138 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,160 You know we both were kind of on the same refrain. 139 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Like I think this team is going to be a lot better in February 140 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,680 and March than it is in October and November. 141 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,160 The trouble is we we're right. It's just the March was the 142 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,160 answer not not the February. And so it's like I wish we could 143 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,960 have just figured this out a couple weeks earlier because 144 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,760 it's like this team looks really good now. 145 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,400 Michigan State's got its own host of problems. 146 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,320 Michigan State isn't fantastic, but it it just kind of is like, 147 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,960 man, going to be just kind of forgotten away. 148 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,800 But the like, the team is starting to click in in ways 149 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,200 where it's like this wasn't even happening a couple weeks ago. 150 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,280 Yeah, you know, just in general it was, it was an odd game. 151 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,240 There were a lot of weird things in this game. 152 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,520 I mean Trey Galloway going out with what looked like a knee 153 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,960 injury and not coming back, only playing 7 minutes, you know, 154 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,760 Xavier Johnson did not look good for large stretches of the game, 155 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,440 was just wild with his passing, but also had some key plays, you 156 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,960 know? So it was it was a very classic 157 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,480 kind of good Xavier bad Xavier game you know you got. 158 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,000 But you know what, what one, what the game, What won the game 159 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,400 for Indiana again was Khalil Ware who had a monster game 28 160 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,080 and 12 with a couple of assists, had a couple of blocks, only hit 161 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,880 one free throw. But darn that one free throw was 162 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,080 absolutely critical as it was the one that gave them the 163 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,000 margin of victory. You know, Malik renew at an OK 164 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,720 game. You know Gabe Cups didn't I mean 165 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,919 he was he was at least a distributor in this game. 166 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,320 He he had three assists which was better than what we've seen 167 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,760 out of him and ultimately Mackenzie and Bako hitting those 168 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,520 threes was really kind of what kept Indiana afloat for a while 169 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,560 offensively in the second-half. It your point is really well 170 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:47,720 taken. I mean, this is a Michigan State 171 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:52,000 team that I mean they they started Xavier Booker and he 172 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,560 played 7 minutes for the whole game. 173 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,640 They got very little out of their bench he had. 174 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,680 A weird stat. Like, yeah, it was. 175 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,720 It was a very weird game and he's had, he's been very like 176 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,400 out of it. Like if you look at his, his 177 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,080 statistical performances like that as a guy that just has not 178 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:09,240 been able to to contribute regularly from Michigan State, 179 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,560 they got almost nothing out of their bench. 180 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,640 And yet there were large sections of the game where it 181 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,800 really felt like Michigan State was in control. 182 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,400 Indiana deserves a lot of credit for picking themselves up off 183 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,960 the mat, you know, after that big run allowed with about 15 184 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,640 minutes to go and getting back into it. 185 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,640 And they also deserve credit for the way they played at the end 186 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,320 of the game. I mean there were, there were 187 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,440 several possessions there where neither team could like make the 188 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,720 plays. But as that was as much due to 189 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,560 both teams really playing some hard nosed defense at the end 190 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,080 and Indiana just made kind of one more play there at the end 191 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,400 it was. But as you said, you know for 192 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:52,360 Indiana it was a game that you looked at the the overall setup 193 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,920 and you say to yourself, well, if they'd been able to have this 194 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,840 kind of performance in some other games defensively in 195 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,480 January and February, maybe they're sitting here with a 196 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,000 couple more victories and the entire narrative is a bit 197 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,480 different and it's really over this whole last four-game 198 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,240 stretch. It really does smack of an 199 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,560 opportunity wasted. And what I would like to point 200 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:17,440 out, and I think this is important, it's like it, you 201 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,120 know, at least at least from an offensive perspective, they've 202 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,840 managed to play better over the course of these last few games 203 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,520 without necessarily getting great offensive performances or 204 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,640 or contributions out of Xavier Johnson. 205 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,080 It's been very up and down. You know, one of the big 206 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,280 arguments made was that, well, Indiana would be better if they 207 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,600 hadn't been missing Xavier Johnson for the games that they 208 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,000 did. And yet the flip side of that is 209 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,240 he also wasn't really that much of an offensive contributor in 210 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,480 some of these last games. Defensively, yeah, I think there 211 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,160 have been some some things there that have helped. 212 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,360 But the point I'm making there is not to criticize Xavier 213 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:56,480 Johnson. That's not the point. 214 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,160 It's more this team was more than just one piece away from 215 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,120 being successful over the course of the Big 10 season. 216 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,800 This team had to start playing harder and had to start being 217 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,440 more resourceful with what it had and and I think what's 218 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,960 fascinating to me about this last four-game stretch and how 219 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,320 it how you differentiated from what was happening throughout 220 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,000 the bulk of the Big 10 season. Indiana won the two games in the 221 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,600 first part of this four-game stretch, the Wisconsin game in 222 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,840 the Maryland game, largely because they were out of their 223 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,920 minds offensively. You know their their offensive 224 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,080 efficiency in both games was close to 1.2 points per 225 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,560 possession. They won the last two games, the 226 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,360 Minnesota game and the Michigan State game, largely because 227 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,200 their defense was about the best that we've seen it over the 228 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,040 course of the year. I think that's two of their top 229 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,280 4 adjusted defensive performances or two of their top 230 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,160 five on the season came in these last two games. 231 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,440 And you know, to me that's there's a connectedness there on 232 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,400 both ends of the floor, Some of it due to necessity, with with 233 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,240 big men getting into foul trouble, or with having to shift 234 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,000 the point of attack around because you don't have Trey 235 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,360 Galloway triggering things in that flexibility has not been 236 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,640 there for Indiana for most of the season. 237 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,480 And I think that when you're trying to take a more sober 238 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,120 analysis of the macro, that's probably the most frustrating 239 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,720 thing about this team. It's what we've been saying for 240 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,240 a while. It's like this team's got so 241 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,320 many really talented individual parts. 242 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,640 Why did it take this long for them to gel? 243 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,080 Yep. No, I I agree. 244 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,120 And it's it's it's where it's hard to get. 245 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,440 You know, I've been trying to disassociate my kind of my 246 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,720 feelings from the last couple weeks, but it's it's hard to get 247 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,240 super excited for me A, you know, a win like this, you know, 248 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,080 last win of the season against Michigan State, it all should be 249 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,160 awesome. But, you know, in the end it's 250 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,240 like, you know, at this point in my life, like if Indiana's not 251 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,400 going to be playing for a tournament berth, it's kind of 252 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,400 and you know, just this is going to be the end of the season. 253 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,520 It's kind of like what, you know, this is the end. 254 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,920 It's like I'm, I'm happy they won, but it's not the NBA where 255 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,760 I can, you know, root for losses and get a better draft pick. 256 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,600 It's just kind of like this is going to be the end of the 257 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,320 season and then we're going to move on. 258 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,280 And I think that's that's where I think some fans are at as 259 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,360 well. Just kind of like, all right, 260 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,680 it's great, like you did it, but it's kind of like when it's too 261 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,320 late to happen. And like this would have been 262 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,000 great to see. And you know, like what's the 263 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,000 frustrating part too is like we were hovering around 100 in Ken 264 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,360 Palm. You know this win gets you down 265 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,960 to 86 and you just look back and it's like, I mean I know it's a 266 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,960 tough putt because it's Kansas. But like if you've just been 267 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,600 able to somehow close out that Kansas game, like if some of 268 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,120 those pieces would have come together in Kansas, like that's 269 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,880 a non conference Rd. You know home win. 270 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,120 Maybe that drops you into the 70s, sixties, like maybe if you 271 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,160 don't lose like 15 at home to Nebraska, like it's just it 272 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,040 becomes kind of in for organ. But the problem is there's so 273 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,080 many of these stacked up on top that you have to get there. 274 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,680 It's like the the hole was just, well, was just way too deep. 275 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,560 But this is the, you know, this is the part where it's like you 276 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,960 you will see that light at the end of the tunnel for this 277 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,600 season. It's like it really was there 278 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,120 for the, you know, just I just don't want this season to be 279 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,680 lost. It's like a bad season that just 280 00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,520 didn't have the talent. It's like, no, the talent was 281 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,880 always there. It's just we had a hard time 282 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,600 figuring out how to get it all to work together. 283 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,200 Yeah. And I mean this Michigan State 284 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,760 game is an interesting continuation of a real change of 285 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:15,480 pace for IU in terms of how games went. 286 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,920 You know that they, they managed a couple games like this 287 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,000 throughout the course of the Big 10 season where they kind of 288 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,440 squeezed out wins. Ohio State both times, Michigan 289 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,240 State, Wisconsin. I mean those were, those were 290 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,680 close games up until the very end. 291 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,720 They just had so many games that weren't like that. 292 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,440 I mean really of the losses, as you look at the whole season, 293 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,760 the Kansas game, which kind of felt like an inevitability over 294 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,880 the last five minutes of the game, like you know, you really 295 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,680 didn't feel like Indiana was going to be able to close that 296 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,840 one out. The Northwestern game at home, 297 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,640 you know, that was one that was back and forth enough that you 298 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,560 thought maybe Indiana could could grab it. 299 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,000 And the rest of them, it's a. Low outs, yeah. 16 point loss to 300 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,160 Nebraska. 9 point loss to Rutgers. 21 point loss to 301 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,640 Purdue. 13 or 12 point loss to Wisconsin, Eight point loss to 302 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Illinois, 14 points to Penn State, 20 points to Purdue, 15 303 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,280 to Nebraska and 9:00 to Penn State. 304 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:12,040 I mean it that's where it feel like the Chasm was was too great 305 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,560 for Indiana to leap over in the in most of those games and 306 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,600 whatever caused them to be able to kind of re center themselves 307 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,840 in that Wisconsin game and figure out what was going to 308 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,760 work and then shift that halfway through when the shooting wasn't 309 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,600 quite as good as it had been before. 310 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,440 You know look they were you could say they were due. 311 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,320 There's a there's a certain level of statistical regression 312 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,000 with all of this where it's like it's hard to be that 313 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,640 inconsistent or that subpar all season and maybe they just 314 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,240 needed some of the luck to swing their way and it kind of did. 315 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,880 They also ended up playing teams that I think were kind of ripe 316 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,360 for the picking to some degree at the end of the season. 317 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,840 And they didn't have that earlier in the year. 318 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,720 And that's again, that's not to criticize the wins. 319 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,880 It's more to point out that you know when they played Wisconsin 320 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,280 the first time, Wisconsin still look like a team that was going 321 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,920 to be in contention for like a two seed or a three seed. 322 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,640 They get Wisconsin at home a month and 1/2 or Mike, it was 323 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,520 about a month later. Wisconsin was just bleeding out 324 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,240 at that point. Same thing with Michigan State. 325 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,200 That's the thing with these last four games is it's like we want 326 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,440 to and not. I'm not. 327 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,000 I'm kind of knocking it like you won against teams at all playing 328 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,640 Wednesday, Thursday in the Big 10 tournament and like that's 329 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,360 that. What is funny is, you know, it's 330 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,080 like Michigan State has the logo, it has the green, it has 331 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,440 Izzo and it's like, but this is not, it's a team that finished 332 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,080 8th in the Big 10. Like, this is not your vintage 333 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,040 Michigan State team. And what's funny is like even 334 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,920 talking to some friends like they they like, oh man, like we 335 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,520 got a pretty good draw in the Big 10 tournament. 336 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,600 It's like, well, no, because if we play Penn State they beat us 337 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,480 twice this year and like I know Nebraska isn't normally a name 338 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,680 brand but like they've kicked a snot out of us twice. 339 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,960 So like just because the names aren't Wisconsin, Michigan State 340 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,000 or Ohio State, like the the Big 10 is shuffled this year. 341 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,640 And so I I do think part of it is just you look at it, it's 342 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,800 like oh you know Rd. wins are good but like you know Maryland, 343 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,080 Minnesota, Michigan State, Wisconsin. 344 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,720 Like it's it sounds daunting maybe in like 2006 but in 2024 345 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,640 this is kind of the mid. To bottom tier of the big tent. 346 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,720 Yeah, I mean it's and look again I think what you have to think 347 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,079 about with all of this is it's a full season. 348 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,359 I talked about this earlier when I did the, I did a podcast for 349 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,240 those who haven't seen it, where I tried to walk everybody 350 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,240 through how the metrics work, how Kenpalm works, how the 351 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,640 networks and why Indiana's struggling. 352 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,320 You know it it really does matter to some degree, not just 353 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,920 whether you win or lose, but how you play those games, who you 354 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,760 play them against. And it it's a weird year in the 355 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,200 Big 10 in that there's there's not much top end. 356 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,720 There's Purdue, there's Illinois and that, that's basically it. 357 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,960 And then everybody else is in this big glob And then Michigan 358 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,840 is is clearly the worst team in the league and Indiana's 359 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,400 somewhere in that midst. And look, they've they've 360 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,680 improved their overall standing quite a bit. 361 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,200 I think in in Torvick they were 102nd going into the Wisconsin 362 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,320 game and I think they're 78th right now in Torvik. 363 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,440 So the way they've played over the course of the last couple of 364 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,640 weeks has been really good. It's just that they played badly 365 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,200 enough and inconsistently enough for most of the rest of the 366 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,840 season that that doesn't really factor in, in the big scheme of 367 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,280 things. So yeah, you you look at the, 368 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,200 you look at the overall record, you look at 18 and 13. 369 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,680 I think the big thing that sticks out to me when reviewing 370 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,560 this regular season is just like what was the signature win for 371 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,520 Indiana this season realistically, Was it was it 372 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,400 Wisconsin at home? That's that's the highest or the 373 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,920 second highest rated team? As you mentioned, Michigan State 374 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,080 has really, they look like one of those teams that has really 375 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,240 the metrics have been overly kind to them, shall we say, in 376 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,520 terms of of how good they actually are. 377 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,080 When even the Wisconsin game five years, we're going to look 378 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,480 back on this and like it's still going to show a 19 year beating 379 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,840 Michigan State 19. But damn, that was a great win. 380 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,880 It's like, but realistically speaking like what was what was 381 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,480 the signature win for this Indiana team this season? 382 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,120 I don't know what. I really don't know what the 383 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,640 answer is. I guess it's either the 384 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,200 Wisconsin game, because that really did seem to kind of pull 385 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,600 them out of the tailspin, or maybe it's the game at Ohio 386 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,680 State, which that win actually looks better and better, even 387 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,720 though that the, you know, that particular game came before 388 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,880 Chris Holtman got fired. But for Indiana to come back 389 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,080 against an Ohio State team that's, you know, despite what 390 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,160 you would think with their record hovering around 50 in the 391 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,800 net and around the same in Ken Palm and has played really well 392 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,680 down the stretches, has gotten some scalps that to be able to 393 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,560 come back and win that game in the way they did, that might end 394 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,840 up being the game you point back to and say that was the 395 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,200 signature win. The problem with that is that's 396 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,640 not a very good signature win like either of those games. 397 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,080 I think for for about a month and a half, the signature win 398 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,240 was our win at Michigan because we we didn't know how bad they 399 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,000 were. And it's like, hey, that's a 400 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,560 road win. Like that's a great Rd. win 401 00:19:58,560 --> 00:19:59,680 that's going to get you in the Big 10. 402 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:03,200 So so this is where. It's a great question. 403 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,400 I mean, the answer might be the game that is happening is 404 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000 Michigan State. And and and look, this is not 405 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,680 again, if if people are listening to this and being like 406 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,280 why you guys are being critical that this is really intended 407 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,880 more as a benchmarking thing. I mean last year there were, 408 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,960 there were like 4 games that you could have pointed to as the 409 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,160 signature wins for Indiana. You know, probably the biggest 410 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,800 one was the game at Mackie and that was like clearly like yes, 411 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:32,040 that that game, the fact that they they won by 8 at Mackie was 412 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,480 a huge accomplishment. The game at home versus Purdue 413 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,040 fell into that category. The game at Xavier fell into 414 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,000 that category. You know you could even say that 415 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:42,520 the game that they had at home against Michigan State where 416 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,480 they won by 13, that was a pretty good Michigan State team 417 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,840 from the metrics. You just don't have wins like 418 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,760 that on the record this time around. 419 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:56,400 And I I find that interesting to think about because you know if 420 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,400 you're you know as I've been searching for a way to 421 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,520 contextualize the regular season, in my mind it it really 422 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,480 is just kind of a regular season that's been devoid of any 423 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,200 meaningful peaks that really made you feel like wow Indiana 424 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,200 basketball that's that's the brand. 425 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,640 Even a couple years ago that you know then Woodson's first year 426 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,680 you had to win at home against Purdue. 427 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,840 You you had a couple of you had the the neutral court win up at 428 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,280 Conseco against the Notre Dame team that was still kind of 429 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,280 halfway decent. You had the win in the Big 10 430 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,920 tournament against Illinois. Obviously something like that 431 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,440 could happen in the Big 10 tournament for Indiana still. 432 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,480 So we'll we'll keep our powder dry. 433 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,600 But in the absence of that, it was kind of a an extra 434 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,360 nondescript season for Indiana without a whole lot of peaks. 435 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,120 And I think you you add that into the lack of tournament 436 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:50,440 contention. And that's where a lot of people 437 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,400 have been, I guess a bit angst filled about where Indiana 438 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,240 basketball is at. Yeah, there was some commentary 439 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,320 from some newspaper online about how, well, gosh, Indiana was 440 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,440 picked to finish sixth in the Big 10 and they finished sixth 441 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,240 in the Big 10. So people need to chill. 442 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,120 And it's like, wow, way to cherry pick stuff and and ignore 443 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,120 all of the context that went into that. 444 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,960 I mean that's that's that that level of reasoning is kind of 445 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,160 fascinating to me because it's like oh you matched your pre 446 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,280 season expectations. Why are the fans upset? 447 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,560 Is about as tone deaf of a commentary or an analysis as I 448 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,160 can think of. Especially when you failed to 449 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,160 take into account, oh, you finished sixth in a three-way 450 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,480 tie in a conference that wasn't particularly strong. 451 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,240 And what you did, finishing sixth got you nowhere near the 452 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,000 NCAA tournament. Like, that's probably why people 453 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,400 are a little bit upset, and probably why they don't feel 454 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,200 like chilling, at least in terms of reacting to how the season 455 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,440 went. I I could not agree more. 456 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,880 I I've heard that a couple different places from a couple 457 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,080 different media members. They like well hey I picked them 458 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,440 to finish 6th and they finished 6th or I picked and finished 7th 459 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,120 they finished 6th that that's better and it's like yes, but 460 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,160 when you pick them to finish 6th or 7th it was always followed by 461 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,080 comma and a seven or eight seed in the in the NCAA tournament. 462 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,480 Like it was always followed like we kind of ascend. 463 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,960 I think you and I were in a similar boat. 464 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,920 Like I fit it. I picked like you know I thought 465 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,080 we'd finish you know 4th to 6th in the Big 10. 466 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,840 So hey, I'm right too. But I I thought that would be 467 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,480 accompanied with a berth in the NCAA tournament. 468 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,080 I didn't think that 6th place in the Big 10 would be not making 469 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,240 the tournament like you can reverse it. 470 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,520 It's like I don't think people would be like you know I I 471 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,480 picked him to finish 7th but you know like if we finished 7th, 472 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,800 the Big 10 but we were in a you know a ten seed. 473 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,360 I think the the heat will be turned down a little bit like 474 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,800 this is not something that you can you know you can't market 475 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,480 this if you're IU of like hey we we've met the expectations of 476 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,360 our Big 10 finish like we are about a couple things here 477 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,440 that's the banner going right under the all time March Madness 478 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,640 number one all time March Madness theme like the number 479 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,440 one meet the benchmark of our of our Big 10 expectations. 480 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,200 We don't out kick our coverage we cover it's like in relation 481 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,280 to Big 10 success we talk about it in terms of Big 10 titles. 482 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,640 I'm sorry like there isn't like, hey we finished top 6 like so I 483 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,960 I I agree with you a million percent. 484 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,520 I just don't think anybody would have thought that a 6th place 485 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,000 finished wouldn't even be close to the NCAA tournament, which 486 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,720 that's that's the really frustrating part is it's not 487 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,160 even that we're not in the tournament, but we're not even 488 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,400 in the bubble discussion. We're not even in the NIT 489 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,840 discussion. Well, we're in the, we're in the 490 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,760 NIT discussion now, but yes. But I mean, but we are, but 491 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,280 we're not. But Indiana had to win four 492 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,640 games in a row to get into the NIT discussion, which I think is 493 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,000 the boy that you're trying to make now. 494 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,360 It's I mean, and look, in 2022, Indiana finished 9th in the 495 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,560 conference and got into the NCAA tournament. 496 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,680 In there were 911. Yeah, in 2020, the season that 497 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,600 were, there was no NCAA Tournament. 498 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:00,680 Indiana was tied for 10th that season and would have probably 499 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,840 barely gotten into the NCAA tournament. 500 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,040 So again, this is where the what we picked you to finish at this 501 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,320 particular spot in the conference standings and you 502 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,360 did, that's meeting expectations, really misses the 503 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:13,920 mark. I'm just, I'm fascinated that 504 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160 that's the argument that people are making, especially as we've 505 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,680 talked about when you consider the talent that's on the roster. 506 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:28,080 And so anyway, all of that said, Indiana has set themselves up in 507 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,160 the postseason to at least have some more play and and this is 508 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,360 going to be an interesting thing. 509 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:37,200 So Indiana, as Scott just mentioned, is really not in the 510 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,040 NCAA tournament picture. If you want a broader discussion 511 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,880 of this, check out the podcast that I did earlier on Monday 512 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,320 where I laid out where Indiana's at in this in the seating and 513 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,560 selection process and why they're so far outside. 514 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,280 But just to kind of Cliff notes it for you here, Indiana at what 515 00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:01,160 like 93rd in the net right now and about you know they have 516 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,440 their, they have some metrics that are OK like their SOR which 517 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,680 is strength of record is like in the 40s which is pretty good. 518 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,160 But their BPI which is ESP, NS metric is actually I think worse 519 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,760 than their Ken Palm rating. Both of those are in the 90s, 520 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,480 Torvick's in the 90s. Like all the metrics say, this 521 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,840 is an Indiana team that's significantly far away. 522 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,440 And the problem that Indiana has to some degree is that the Big 523 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,120 10 tournament draw, while favorable to winning multiple 524 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,640 games, is not favorable. For Indiana to pick up the types 525 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,200 of wins that it would need to even get close to the 526 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,000 discussion, And here's what I mean by that by Indiana finished 527 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,440 6th, which means they're going to play either Penn State or 528 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,680 Michigan, neither of whom are anywhere close to the NCAA 529 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,080 tournament themselves. So you win that game A, you're 530 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,560 going to have to win by a sizable margin or else it's 531 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,160 going to hurt your net rating, it's going to hurt your Ken Palm 532 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,120 rating, like it's going to bring you back a little ways. 533 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:04,360 Then you have to play Nebraska, and Nebraska is, while a good 534 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,200 team. Of the four teams that I think 535 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,640 that Indiana would have wanted to try to draw in that next 536 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040 round, they're probably the weakest team in terms of their 537 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,440 actual tournament resume, maybe Northwestern. 538 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,320 But Northwestern, I think is more safely in the field than 539 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760 Nebraska is because of the wins that they've collected. 540 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,000 I think both teams are going to get in, but in both cases you're 541 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,720 just talking about teams that aren't going to move the needle 542 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,240 that much. If Indiana beats them on a 543 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,840 neutral floor, you know, knocking off the Nebraska's 37th 544 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,080 in the net, knocking off the 37th ranked team on a neutral 545 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,360 floor. I mean, it'll be a tier one win, 546 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,480 but I also just think from a an on paper perspective, that's not 547 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,680 going to make the tournament selection committee say, gosh, 548 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,440 we really need to pay attention to this Indiana team now, Then 549 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,920 you get Illinois in the next round. 550 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,120 Now that's a better one, but that's essentially the last win 551 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:59,520 Indiana can pick up before the NCAA has finalized who they're 552 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,600 planning on having in the field. So if you beat Illinois, well 553 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,800 you've got a real and that's assuming it's Illinois. 554 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,040 It could be Iowa or Ohio State theoretically. 555 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,560 But if you beat Illinois and you're in the Big 10 title game, 556 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,840 well, there's an easy way to get into the tournament at that 557 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,760 point, which is just win the tournament. 558 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,720 But if you lose the tournament, the way that this has always 559 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,440 worked out, unless you were in the tournament going into 560 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,240 Sunday, a close loss to Purdue or whoever in the Big 10 title 561 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,160 game isn't going to be a decisive factor. 562 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:33,720 Because as we saw even two years ago when Indiana went on that 563 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,200 run and and beat Illinois and almost beat Iowa, the tournament 564 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,200 selection committee doesn't really rate these post season 565 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,720 tournament games that much when it comes to getting people into 566 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,160 the field and and having it adjust their seating like 567 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,480 dramatically. So what you're going to end up 568 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,640 with is unfortunately a situation I think where Indiana 569 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,960 just has to win the whole thing to get in. 570 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,560 There's not really another scenario. 571 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440 Well there's all, I mean people are also just people like, hey, 572 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,200 newsflash. Like if you get to the 573 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,680 championship game, I'm assuming the committee will be like, all 574 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,640 right, well, if Indiana wins, we'll put them here. 575 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,640 If they don't, they're out. Like there's there's probably 576 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,840 not there's not just not enough time for after that game in the 577 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,840 25 minutes before the selection show to be like hey let's sit 578 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,960 down and all re meet and see how you know St. 579 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,520 John's metrics versus Indiana is now they've lost the prize but 580 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,720 hey you know if they want in they can win and if they win 581 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,880 we'll put them in at that spot and if they lose they're out and 582 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,480 and you know whether that's fair it's like hey don't if you don't 583 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,320 want to be in that position win a couple more games earlier. 584 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760 So I'm with you like this is a point where and this is kind of 585 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680 what I've been talking about. You know I continue to harp on 586 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,720 this point. It's like you know if if we want 587 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,480 to get if Woodson and everybody wants to get some of the 588 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,320 momentum back and some of the people back like at some point 589 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600 you have to over deliver. You can't just continually 590 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,880 deliver right at expectation coming out, you know, a 591 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,760 four-game win streak at the end of the season to still not make 592 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,680 the tournament. Like, while it's nice that 593 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,280 that's not, that's not getting everybody back on board that you 594 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,440 might have lost, winning the Big 10 tournament is a good first 595 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,440 step. You'd be like, oh, that's tough. 596 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,480 Like, well, at some point you got to do something tough. 597 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,240 Like at some point you got to do something unexpected that would 598 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,560 be unexpected. Like, if we're here next week, 599 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,240 next Monday, talking about how we had a run where he beat Penn 600 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,000 State, Nebraska, Illinois and I don't know, Northwestern or 601 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,960 Purdue, I'd be like, dude, Galen, like, that's now seven in 602 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,960 a row. Like this is there's something 603 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,480 here. Like, we might have figured this 604 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,480 out. And once again, it's like maybe 605 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,720 Woodson has, you know, now it's like now there's two out of 606 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,640 three years. You had a team that was kind of 607 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,520 DOA and came into March and they figured it out and turned it on 608 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,720 in the tournament. Like you can change the whole 609 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,400 narrative in four games. So go do it. 610 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,560 If you if you want to change that narrative, go do it. 611 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,680 Yeah, I mean, that's that stated about as plainly as it can be 612 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,400 stated. And and look, ultimately it's an 613 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,640 easier path than you would have gotten. 614 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,280 It's just not a it's. It's not as ideal of a path. 615 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,000 If you were as legitimately trying to pick up wins, they 616 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,000 would move the needle. Get in. 617 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,360 Without winning the tournament like it's not the best path, but 618 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,840 the best path maybe win the. Tournament. 619 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,960 But the the larger point is Indiana just left way too much 620 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,080 work for themselves coming into this and that's that ultimately 621 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,680 ends up being the issue. Because look even getting into 622 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,360 the NIT is not a sure thing for Indiana at this point. 623 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,480 And that is partially because of you know the way that the NIT 624 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,960 selects and the fact that once you get past about the top 6065 625 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,760 teams in the net, that's when you start drawing out of the NIT 626 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,440 field. And Indiana's their 93rd in the 627 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,440 net. So they're probably further down 628 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,200 the list and again they don't have a signature win or things 629 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,280 that they've done away from home that you could point to and say 630 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,560 This is why you would want to include them in the the runner 631 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680 up tournament essentially. I say do have the metric of of 632 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,200 meeting the expectations of some sports writer and where they 633 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,640 were going to finish. That's there's that. 634 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,880 So I look at this tournament as an interesting opportunity for 635 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,760 Indiana. And you know, obviously, I mean 636 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,520 there's a lingering concern coming out of the game in in in 637 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,320 terms of where Trey Galloway's knee situation is at. 638 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,520 He left early, he he was on the exercise bike for a while, he 639 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,800 was walking up and down the tunnel. 640 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,680 I could see all this from my seats and he just never came 641 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,920 back in. And so you do worry about that 642 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,440 because Indiana fortunately doesn't have to play Wednesday, 643 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,800 but they do have to play Thursday. 644 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,000 And so hopefully Trey is able to come back and give it a go. 645 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,600 When you get down to what Indiana can do, I mean you want 646 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,960 them to play Penn State because Penn State, a win against Penn 647 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,200 State's going to help the metrics. 648 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,640 But you want to talk about a team that's a little bit scary 649 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,040 for Indiana, just in terms of Penn State's demonstrated how to 650 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,680 beat Indiana twice now. And Indiana has really seemed to 651 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,760 struggle with what Penn State does. 652 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,520 I do worry about that particular matchup. 653 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,920 I mean, you know, you look at the the way that the games went, 654 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280 you know, over the course of the the two games, the season 655 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,160 against Penn State, you know, in the first game, they just let 656 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,320 Penn state-run roughshod over them offensively. 657 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,120 Penn State hit 12 threes. They scored almost 1.4 points 658 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,440 per possession. Indiana didn't score badly in 659 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,720 that game. Penn State just scored 660 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,960 significantly better because Indiana's defense was so bad. 661 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040 And even in the second game, Indiana's downfall again was 662 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,320 their defense. Penn State shot 9 threes in that 663 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,720 game. It's a team that shoots a ton of 664 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,200 threes, which is just a team that Indiana has struggled 665 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,320 against. Now that you know what I am 666 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,600 interested in, Scott the The one great equalizer in these Big 10 667 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080 tournament games is that nobody's on their home floor. 668 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,880 Nobody's familiar with the shooting. 669 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,080 Teams that overly rely on great shooting sometimes struggle. 670 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,680 We actually saw that with the Indiana women last week in the 671 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,160 Big 10 tournament. They just couldn't get things to 672 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,600 fall in the second-half. But that said, you know that 673 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,880 this is the type of game where Indiana has to be able to come 674 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,480 out and say we're playing at a different level than even we 675 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,640 were two weeks ago with the last time we played Penn State. 676 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,160 We're not on their floor. We're on a neutral floor. 677 00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,920 You know we've got a real opportunity here to do 678 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,720 something, but it's a two way St. and I think you know the 679 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,320 issue that you have with Penn State as much as Indiana's 680 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,040 playing probably their best, most consistent basketball of 681 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,000 the season right now. Well, Penn State's doing the 682 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,400 same thing. They've won three out of their 683 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,600 last five and that includes wins against Illinois, Indiana and 684 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,280 Maryland by a significant margin. 685 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,880 They're a four point favorite against Michigan in the first 686 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,520 game of the of the big 10 tournament and their offense has 687 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,440 been kind of hit or miss. Their defense has been kind of 688 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,880 odd to watch. They they've certainly had some 689 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,159 bad games, but this is, this is like the bar, the floor for 690 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,000 Indiana. I think if they lose this game, 691 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,239 they probably don't make the NIT. 692 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,760 If they win the game, I think they're probably in the NIT. 693 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,040 And then it's a matter of, OK, now we're off to the races, what 694 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,600 can you do in that next game against either Illinois or one 695 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,280 of the two teams coming out of their bracket? 696 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,560 It's just a really interesting scenario for Indiana. 697 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,600 Yeah. I mean on the surface, you know 698 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,960 I like again I like the draw of the Penn State, Nebraska getting 699 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,680 into the quarterfinals, assuming it's Penn State, you know if 700 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,560 it's Michigan, we'll we'll see. The only thing that is, is a, 701 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,080 you are right about the shooting. 702 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,520 The other thing that I don't particularly like is I know it's 703 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,480 hard to beat a team three times in a row and that would be the 704 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,520 case for both Penn State or Nebraska. 705 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,240 But the thing that both Penn State and Nebraska have is that 706 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,840 the way that Indiana was was playing those games and lost 707 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,000 those games is like we we made runs in the like the Penn State 708 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,200 game, we had the run in the first half at home and then we 709 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,520 just kind of wilted and let Penn State get back in it and then 710 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,280 just gave up and couldn't get it done. 711 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,160 The the Nebraska game, similar things. 712 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,360 So, you know, it's it's one of those were like, had we played 713 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,000 Purdue last year in the Big 10 title game. 714 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,440 There's a world where I think if we can get up by 5 or 6, produce 715 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,160 like, Oh my God, how do we, we don't have the key for this 716 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,800 Indiana team. I think the reverse is true here 717 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,080 for two games in a row where even if we get up and like we 718 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,480 did against Michigan State we get up 20 to 5 on Penn State. 719 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,720 You know Penn State can go to the huddle and be like all 720 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,000 right, like we've been here before with this team two 721 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640 different times this year. We know just give it a second. 722 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,160 We know they're going to cool off and we know we can come back 723 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,480 and we know we can take this down. 724 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,280 I think Nebraska has would have the same mentality. 725 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,360 So that that is what concerns me about those two teams is they 726 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,560 they both seem like that. And then on the flip side, you 727 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,440 know, while the shooting sometimes struggles in these 728 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,640 arenas that are a little bit different, you know, both Penn 729 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,600 State and Nebraska also do have that ability that if they are 730 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,200 shooting well, they can just blow your, blow your socks off. 731 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,640 And that is that is the other concerning part. 732 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,880 So on paper it's better than you know us probably I'd much rather 733 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,720 play these guys than Purdue and Northwestern. 734 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,640 But you know, this is again, we're Just because Nebraska's 735 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,640 not normally a Big 10 power doesn't mean they're a bad team 736 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,440 this year. Yeah, well, look, so much of it, 737 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,440 as we've talked about all season, I think is going to come 738 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,800 down to defense and how Indiana attacks things defensively. 739 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,240 Yeah, that's been the. I think the key for Indiana over 740 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,280 the course of of the season is when they've played well, 741 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:06,400 they've had at least a modicum of good defense coming and it's 742 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,320 made life difficult on the opponents. 743 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,240 And then when they haven't played well, that's generally 744 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,240 been absent. And you go that whole stretch 745 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:16,600 between the the first Purdue game and the last Penn State 746 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,480 game and it was among the worst defensive performances that we 747 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,560 saw all season out of Indiana outside of the Auburn game, 748 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,960 which was, you know, kind of the nadir of the whole season. 749 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,400 From that perspective, how much of this is sustainable from 750 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,360 Indiana is going to be the interesting question. 751 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,800 And you know, this is honestly where you look at. 752 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,480 I look at where most of the, the, the real improvements have 753 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,280 come from, from Indiana in terms of individual play and you're 754 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,320 you're getting the best basketball the season out of 755 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,360 Khalil Ware. You're getting pretty good play 756 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,400 out of Malik Renew when he's able to stay on the floor. 757 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,920 Mackenzie and Bacco's played pretty well, but that's is that 758 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,840 going to be enough over the course of, you know, going into 759 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,600 a tournament where everybody's kind of hit the reset button to 760 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,760 really come out and and play at a level that would be, you know, 761 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,320 necessary to advance. And that's the big question 762 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,360 mark. I'm just, I'm really fascinated 763 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,880 by the overall mentality of the team right now and if they 764 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,640 believe that they can do things that it seems to tie directly 765 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,120 into their ability to go play defense. 766 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,560 And when they don't believe, that's when they struggle with 767 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,040 those things. Well I I think one of the keys 768 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,520 is, you know this kind of got lost in the shuffle with all of 769 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,120 the the the, the bad stuff going on outside of the team. 770 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,360 But you know starting on January 27th against Illinois I'm just 771 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,320 going to read off Malik Renews either foul fouling out or fouls 772 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,560 he had. He fouled out. 773 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,760 He then injured only played three minutes then fouled out 774 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,080 four. Fouls fouled out. 775 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,000 Fouled out four four fouled out four and then last two games 776 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,840 three and two. So it's it's slowly getting 777 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,960 better but there was a good month month and a half stretch 778 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,600 there where Renew was back into the fouling out foul problem 779 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,320 again and that's something that just we we you cannot have, 780 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,800 especially in a short tournament like this where you know in one 781 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,680 game you might be able to get through it but it's like the low 782 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,320 that you're going to have to put on where in Embako if Renew is 783 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,000 in foul trouble and for fouling out like you just you you can't 784 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,080 have that. So that is something that, you 785 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,960 know, was becoming a problem at the end of the year. 786 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,400 Riot itself for two games. But it's like Renew has got to 787 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,040 continue to stay on the court, even if that means not not 788 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,720 getting fouls. But I I have a hard time 789 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,040 believing in that because it was like as the season was going on, 790 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,720 he was getting a little, a little bit more. 791 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,920 It's like he was starting to get in some real foul trouble these 792 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,000 last month and 1/2. Yeah I mean and and look that's 793 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,560 I think IU deserves some credit for figuring out how to adapt to 794 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,680 games where they weren't getting the same sort of performance out 795 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,160 of renew. And and a lot of that's been 796 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,040 Khalil, we're picking up the slack and and really becoming a 797 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,920 primary force not just in terms of scoring but in terms of of 798 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,120 his rebounding in terms of of some rim protection. 799 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,360 I mean that was really obvious in that game yesterday which was 800 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,960 pretty interesting to see. So look, I the the other thing 801 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,640 I'll note is that Indiana from a from a rebounding perspective. 802 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,680 Has gotten better not. I mean yesterday was one of 803 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,600 those rare games where Indiana was really good on the offensive 804 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,680 glass. What I think is kind of 805 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,880 interesting is, you know, they're not grabbing a lot of 806 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,520 offensive rebounds themselves. They're relying pretty much on 807 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,000 just good shooting to to get the ball in the basket. 808 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,920 They weren't even, they haven't even relied that much on going 809 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,040 to the free throw line, which is good because they're not hitting 810 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960 their free throws. But what what is interesting to 811 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,840 me is defensively, I think that they've, they've done a better 812 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,760 job of of not surrendering as many rebounds as they were 813 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,520 before. You know, they had a little bit 814 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,440 of trouble with that in the Minnesota game, but fortunately 815 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,000 Minnesota couldn't hit the ocean, you know, and there are 816 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,720 other games they've been at least passable in terms of 817 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,280 keeping teams off of their offensive glass, which is a key. 818 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,320 I mean you know so much of what we talked about earlier in the 819 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,600 year it felt like Indiana just was they were struggling so much 820 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,040 to to to rebound on both ends. Again, an effort and a focus 821 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,840 thing, much like the defense that has gotten better. 822 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,680 I just, I wonder with the reset, I wonder with, you know, going 823 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:20,640 back to Minneapolis after a few days off and you know, getting 824 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,680 basically to play a team that played the night before who's 825 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,920 already going to be in a little bit of rhythm, how Indiana 826 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,920 manages all of this. But look, I think if you looked 827 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,680 at the way that Indiana's played and said, I think Indiana can 828 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,840 make the semi finals of the Big 10 tournament, I think it's a 829 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,280 very reasonable argument. I I think it, I think the idea 830 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,960 that Indiana with the pathway they've got that they could beat 831 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:45,120 Penn State, beat Nebraska and then be playing Illinois on on 832 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,040 Saturday, that's that is 100% a possibility. 833 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:54,000 And overall, you know, I think given how that unfortunately the 834 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,520 season has progressed that's that's a pretty good way to 835 00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,600 finish things off. If you could get to Saturday 836 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,160 kind of get solidly in the NIT field and make a good accounting 837 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,280 of yourselves against the team that you didn't play that badly 838 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,880 against in Champaign, then all right, that's at least 839 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,920 something. Yeah, I completely agree. 840 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:12,040 So we'll see what happens with all that. 841 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:17,920 Indiana's first game is the last game on Thursday, Scott, so 842 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,560 you're talking like a nine or 930 tip depending on when the 843 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:27,000 the game before, which will be Ohio State, Iowa is done. 844 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,960 That's a late night. A lot of people are going to be 845 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,080 disappointed in that. But you know, it's interesting. 846 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,040 I, I don't have very good memories of this particular game 847 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,640 in the Big 10 tournament. I remember very clearly Indiana 848 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,680 being I think it was a three seed and getting knocked out by 849 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:48,360 an 11 seed of the Illinois team. This was back in like 1998 where 850 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,120 it was like, wait a minute or is 99 actually where it's like, OK, 851 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,760 we got the night game, everything will be fine. 852 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,280 And then it's like 10:30 at night in Indiana is losing by 20 853 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,200 and it's like why why did we stay up for this and. 854 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,120 I'll be Illinois to the finals of the Big 10 tournament. 855 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,720 Like as the eleven seed because the worst seed of the time. 856 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,520 Yeah, that's right. That's very good memory. 857 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,600 We have a we have a history of losing in almost every possible 858 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,240 spot in the bracket. I was just about to mention like 859 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,680 I could pull up any any example. Well, you know the 4-5 game. 860 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,120 I have bad memories of this year. 861 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,360 I mean, it's it's really a House of horrors, my God. 862 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,520 But, well, I I that's going to be a really interesting one. 863 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,920 And I'll be curious to see how the vibe is because you're going 864 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,280 to have it's an interesting set of games that day. 865 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,640 Minnesota. Michigan State those are two 866 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,320 teams that have they've they've Michigan State's underperformed. 867 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,640 Minnesota's probably over performed but Michigan State's 868 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,600 the better team. Wisconsin and probably Rutgers. 869 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,760 Rutgers. Maryland man that's that's what 870 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,400 they show like people in Guantanamo. 871 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,880 Like they they force you to watch all three games of the 872 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,480 Rutgers Maryland series in a season. 873 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,120 But the the winner that'll be playing Wisconsin, who's who's 874 00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,720 certainly struggled, Ohio State, Iowa might be that might be a 875 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,440 great game like that might be a real fun game. 876 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,600 And that's going to be the game that leads into the Indiana. 877 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,480 I assume it's going to be Penn State. 878 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,400 Michigan looks DOA, but that's that's a really interesting 879 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,840 table setter for that Indiana game, that last game of the Big 880 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920 10 tournament. Yeah, and and honestly the the, 881 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,360 the, the game before whoever wins that playing Illinois the 882 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,680 next week, the next day would also be pretty like an Iowa 883 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,120 Illinois game could be fun to watch or an Ohio State, Illinois 884 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,200 game with the way Ohio State's playing now could be fun, so. 885 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,040 So anyway, we'll talk more. Obviously as the as things go 886 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,240 along, we're not going to do like a separate preview for for 887 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:40,440 whoever Indiana plays. I mean the I'll I'll give you 888 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,560 the preview right now. If they're playing Michigan, I 889 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,720 will like Indiana's chances. If they're playing Penn State, 890 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,960 I'll say well, Indiana's got to figure out a way to to shut down 891 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,800 Penn State's 3 point supply. Otherwise I don't think that 892 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,320 they're going to have much of a chance of keeping up offensively 893 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,360 and that's essentially all I would say about either game. 894 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,320 So you congratulations folks, we saved you a podcast. 895 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,320 There you go. All right. 896 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,480 Well, let's let's go to the topic that has been buzzing 897 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,280 around since yesterday when it happened, which was the post 898 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,120 game comments by Mike Woodson and and some of the players 899 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,960 during the senior night celebration. 900 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,800 And this really, you know, I think the big thing that people 901 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:27,880 have largely focused on is, is Mike Woodson's evoking the idea 902 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,520 of true fans and doing it multiple times and really doing 903 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,960 so in a manner, you know, if you go back and listen to the 904 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:41,040 speeches where it really seemed to be trying to like draw some 905 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,520 kind of delineation between groups of fans within the 906 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,440 Indiana fan base. And yeah, I was there, it was 907 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,320 kind of shocking, isn't exactly the right word. 908 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,200 I was, I was surprised the first time. 909 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,400 It got progressively more surprising as it continued to be 910 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,000 used. And then there was a kind of a 911 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,720 defiance about it that also popped up in the post game, 912 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,200 press conference comments as well. 913 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,640 Scott So let's let's start with Woodson's comments. 914 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,080 I wanted to get your overall feelings on them first and then 915 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,120 I've got some thoughts as well. Yeah, I definitely have 916 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,280 thoughts. You know it. 917 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,760 I was saying it this morning on the Hoosier morning, the the 918 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,800 Hoosier Morning After podcast. So you know, it's kind of a 919 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,560 repeat of that. But you know, here's the thing, 920 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,880 it's something that Osterman has said on one of his podcast last 921 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,360 week and I I promise I'll, I'll get to the point. 922 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,200 But he he was, he was talking about how you know and if you go 923 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,000 to other field for being talk of the Indiana fan base being kind 924 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,640 of irrational and a little bit, you know, too, too hyper, too 925 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,040 excitable. It's like look, man, go go to 926 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,760 Kentucky, give them 30 years of not winning a title and 30 years 927 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,360 of like making the tournament 40% of the time. 928 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,880 And then check in in 2054 and see how they're doing. 929 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,560 Like see what the angst level is year in, year out. 930 00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:03,080 Do it at North Carolina, like you know, the the, the, the, the 931 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,840 talks about Auburn football in Indiana. 932 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,400 It's like, dude, Auburn football had a title in 2012. 933 00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:12,000 They've had some success. So the part that is all part of 934 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,760 the Stew, like you can't just, it can't just because Mike 935 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,680 Woodson came in two years ago, like the last 20 years didn't 936 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,440 happen. They happened and and to me, 937 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,880 it's kind of like you don't get it both ways. 938 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,600 You can talk about how Indiana is, you know, one of the number 939 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,960 one or #2, you know, Twitter follow, you know, fan bases, you 940 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,600 know, they travel. They go out to all these things 941 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,480 like they're super engaged, all that like with that comes 942 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,320 expectations, Mike. Like with that it's kind of like 943 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,000 riding, you know, a, a, you know a horse that's been untrained, 944 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,440 it's like or a rodeo, you know, rodeo bull. 945 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,440 I guess it's like you got to tame this and you tame it with 946 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:46,800 wins. But if you're not, if you're not 947 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,600 winning like this is going to start to get unruly very quickly 948 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,840 because it's big fan base, it's passionate and there has not 949 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,240 been a lot of success. Not all that is the current 950 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:59,280 coach's fault, but it is it is a reality. 951 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,600 And so I I get tired of the the crutch always going back to 952 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,680 being like it's a fans fault for being too passionate. 953 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,960 You did this like look this is part of the gig. 954 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,720 Like like you always say, it's like being, you know that the 955 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:13,440 head of a church like this is part of the gig. 956 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,400 Getting pissed at your fans is not the thing. 957 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,600 And by the way, as true fan, like dude, I'm an alumnus. 958 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,520 I've been a varsity club member for 25 plus years. 959 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,600 I've been a season ticket holder for 25 years. 960 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,240 I don't Boo players, I don't Boo coaches. 961 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,280 But you know, I I wasn't there this weekend. 962 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:32,480 Like, is it? Am I the fault now? 963 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,400 Like I pay my checks, my checks clear. 964 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,920 Is that make me a true fan? I it, I don't like it. 965 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,080 Like I'll just I'll end it there like it bothers me. 966 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,160 I'm not a fan of it but I do think like the other option is 967 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,680 people can just check out like go check out Memorial Stadium 968 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,200 most of the time. That's a fan base that's pretty 969 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,920 much kind of checked out and not fully engaged. 970 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,880 Do you want that? Because that is the other option 971 00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,240 if you want the Super fired up hyper you know fan base that's 972 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,720 giving you a war chest in nil dollars. 973 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,400 Like with that comes some responsibility and it also comes 974 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,600 kind of wrangling a bit of a a a a fan base that has some 975 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,400 volatility so that it's like you, you don't get both sides of 976 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,240 it where everyone's just kissing your ass and giving you all the 977 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:21,760 money and showing up and flying everywhere and not expecting the 978 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:28,280 minimum level of results. So I'll start off by saying 979 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,840 this, I didn't take the comments personally. 980 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,000 I mean, but this is, but I think what your reaction and what we 981 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,480 see with Coach Tom Sony on assembly call, a lot of people 982 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,120 have taken the comments personally and you've had people 983 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,040 say, well, he's not talking, he's talking about the Internet 984 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,520 trolls or this or that. Well, I think my biggest issue 985 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,600 with the comments from Woodson is that if you're going to make 986 00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,640 comments like that, you really need to say exactly what you 987 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,320 mean. Like exactly what are you 988 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,400 talking about, like what what line are you drawing and and and 989 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:07,520 who are you? I mean I I'll. 990 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,920 So I was there in Assembly Hall yesterday for the game. 991 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,840 True pan, I hear you. The number of people who just 992 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,360 left after the game and didn't stick around for the Senior Day 993 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,200 speeches was was, was pretty. I mean, you know, there's 994 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,680 normally a lot of people that filter out. 995 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,480 It felt abnormally large this time around, where I would, I'd 996 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,680 say 85% of the building cleared out and maybe it was 80%, maybe 997 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,240 it was 75, maybe it was 90, but it felt like almost like the 998 00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:40,120 vast majority of people left. So you know it. 999 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,000 It's interesting that Woodson chooses that moment in time to 1000 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,040 not just say something like that once, but to, you know, not 1001 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,760 contextualize it, to repeat it and to essentially draw this 1002 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:59,440 line in the sand between people that he perceives as actually 1003 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,360 supporting the program versus everybody else. 1004 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:09,520 I think when you are the most well known, highest compensated 1005 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,440 or close to highest compensated person in the entire state of 1006 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,840 Indiana, when you're you're better known than the Governor, 1007 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,480 when you have a larger group of people that you are essentially 1008 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,160 kind of over than the Governor or any other figure in the 1009 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,800 state. You probably need to be a little 1010 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,600 more circumspect in those types of comments. 1011 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:36,120 Because ultimately what you end up with is yes, Woodson has a 1012 00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,120 has every right to say those things. 1013 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,440 Whatever he, you know if he wants he wants to to tee off on 1014 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,360 his fan base or portions of the fan base or wants to argue that 1015 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,600 some people aren't actually fans, it's fine. 1016 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,240 Yeah, he's an he's an adult man. He's he's getting paid a lot of 1017 00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:50,800 money. He can do whatever he wants. 1018 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,840 But what you've seen last night and what you've seen today is 1019 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:00,200 why that's a bad idea. And the, you know, even Bob 1020 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,920 Knight who often gets you know, referenced with anything any 1021 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,920 Indiana coach does. You know when Knight would refer 1022 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,400 to people who were being critical of him. 1023 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,160 And there were plenty of IU fans that were very critical of Bob 1024 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,760 Knight. I I don't really recall a whole 1025 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,400 lot of instances where he decided to address specifically 1026 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,600 like some kind of a divide in the program's fan base. 1027 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,400 You know he had obviously the famous line in the 94 senior day 1028 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,480 that you know what the I what they bury me upside down and my 1029 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,240 critics can kiss my ass. Well that's not fans that don't 1030 00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:34,560 like me. That's critics. 1031 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,480 There's a there's a terminology difference there and I think you 1032 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:43,040 know just ultimately a lot of what you said is is dead on 1033 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,800 accurate in terms of this is ultimately a guy who's been the 1034 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,680 head coach at IU for almost 3 full years and has not 1035 00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:55,680 accomplished very much so far. You know that he's made two NCAA 1036 00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,200 tournaments, one of them barely. You know, in the three seasons 1037 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,480 that he's been the head coach at IU, his teams have lost fourteen 1038 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,600 games, 12 games and thus far 13 games. 1039 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:14,480 They've finished in the top four of the Big 10 once and that was 1040 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,440 that was obviously last year. They've got one tournament win 1041 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,600 in those three seasons and they'll leave to this season 1042 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,520 with one tournament win unless they go on a miracle run and win 1043 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,760 the Big 10 tournament and then win a game in the tournament. 1044 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:33,080 So I just, I just wonder what's the point in coming out and 1045 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:34,880 drawing that kind of a line in the sand? 1046 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,640 Are you, are you trying to develop some kind of internal 1047 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,520 like US against the world mentality for your players? 1048 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,440 Maybe that's the case because we heard that out of Anthony Leal, 1049 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,600 we didn't really hear it out of Trey Galloway. 1050 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,320 He was a little more, he was softer in his comments, which 1051 00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,720 was probably more appropriate for the moment. 1052 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:58,160 But I just, I don't understand where the haughtiness of Mike 1053 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,600 Woodson's comments, not just there but in the post game, 1054 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,240 press conference comments as well. 1055 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,920 I mean, he had one comment in relation to a question from a 1056 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,120 media member. It was like there shouldn't be 1057 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,000 anything floating around about my job. 1058 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,920 I've done my job well, I'm sorry. 1059 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,800 As you just said, the if there is indeed a standard of Indiana 1060 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,680 basketball, which Mike Woodson talked about glowingly in his in 1061 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,960 his introductory press conference three years ago or 1062 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,400 for whatever, 4, three, yes, four years ago, 3, whatever, My 1063 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:30,440 math is bad. You know what I mean? 1064 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:36,760 His introductory press conference if you're going to as 1065 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,920 a as a university, an athletic department, put forward your 1066 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,240 basketball program in a way that demands, as you've talked about 1067 00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:49,560 many times, this this very high level of financial support on 1068 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,760 the part of fans in order to just even get in the building. 1069 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,680 If you're, you know, if you don't acknowledge that there 1070 00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,120 have been significant problems with consistency over the course 1071 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,760 of the three years. Like, I just, I don't understand 1072 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,720 where Woodson thinks he's doing himself or the program or the 1073 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:13,720 university any favors with those kind of comments, especially in 1074 00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:16,680 a ceremony that's really supposed to be about celebrating 1075 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,000 the players that and the and the however long they've been in 1076 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,760 uniform. The four years or you know, or 1077 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,640 less than that obviously for the transfers. 1078 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,360 But the whole thing just kind of seemed tone deaf to me and. 1079 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,640 And yeah. I don't, I don't want to keep 1080 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,520 piling on but it's something that you know it it it feels and 1081 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,840 Chad and I talked about this morning it it feels kind of just 1082 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,760 like you haven't earned the right to to get this snippy. 1083 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,800 But I felt this a lot this year is that you know it it 1084 00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,920 definitely feels like between this this comment you know IU 1085 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,320 releasing the statement that you know we are keeping Woodson, you 1086 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,240 know people are feeling the heat. 1087 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:53,320 So like there there's that. But, you know, throughout this 1088 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:54,800 year, you know, whether it's Woodson, like, you know, hey 1089 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,840 man, you know, I'm, I'm going to coach these guys the way I want 1090 00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:57,600 to. And like, we're running the 1091 00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:58,760 sets. We want to run like, you know, 1092 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,600 hey, it's just injuries. Like, don't bug me about this. 1093 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,320 Like there's very much kind of a, like, hey, you, you haven't 1094 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:04,720 earned the right to ask me these questions. 1095 00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:07,840 Or like, you know, you haven't. It definitely feels like he's 1096 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,080 coming at it from this approach of like, why are you bugging me 1097 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,200 with this? Like, I'm the coach, like, and 1098 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,160 it's like it doesn't work that way anymore. 1099 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:16,840 And by the way, it doesn't really work that way if you 1100 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,680 don't have a lot of success. Like, could Tom Izzo do this? 1101 00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,600 Yes, like, but he's also built a respect of that. 1102 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,120 And you know, yes, Woodson, you've had a great year in, you 1103 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,200 know, great career in the NBA. You're also not Eric Spoelstra. 1104 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,480 You haven't won multiple NBA titles like you were an NBA 1105 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,280 coach, which makes you at the very upper echelon of coaches. 1106 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,200 Like very few people get to that level. 1107 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,120 That is true. You also, like, didn't win 1108 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,680 multiple NBA titles or get to NBA championships. 1109 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,120 Like you're not at the upper Crest or the upper Crest. 1110 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,440 Just it it it it's like you you haven't earned the right to be 1111 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,840 this snippy. And and part of me that gets 1112 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,200 nervous is like all right man, like the the burners are turned 1113 00:56:56,200 --> 00:57:00,800 up now and this is what we're getting next year if things 1114 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,560 don't go well. Not, not, not we're not getting 1115 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:04,960 you know, prognostication on that. 1116 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,040 But like, let's just say things get a little bit rocky next 1117 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,600 year. Like, dude, the Burners are 1118 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,280 going to get hotter. Like how are you? 1119 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:11,440 Going to handle. And you're not. 1120 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,440 You're not talking about, like, Twitter burners. 1121 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,160 You're talking about the actual. I'm talking about, like, 1122 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,240 physical oven burn. Like metaphorical oven burners. 1123 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:23,040 Yeah, like the things are going to get even more, you know, more 1124 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,640 uncomfortable. And like, how are you going? 1125 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,680 Like, this is the only thing that makes me concerned is like, 1126 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,480 you know, now that suddenly it's not a love fest and oh, I you 1127 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,040 guy coming back. It's like we're getting a little 1128 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,920 bit critical and he seems to be buckling pretty hard under the 1129 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,120 pressure to like the first Senior Day when things aren't 1130 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,560 great. This is not the best reaction. 1131 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,560 So anyway, it's just I'm with you. 1132 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,040 Like, I'm not sure what the point is. 1133 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,960 You know, you could easily say something similar like, hey man, 1134 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,960 like no way to have expectations, like, but damn it, 1135 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,640 we're going to get it back. And like you, for all you guys 1136 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,040 who stay, like we're going to get you something better next, 1137 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,280 you know, you can do it a different light. 1138 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,800 And I know it's like it's tough being a coach because like 1139 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,040 there's no right way to answer. Like we all want him to make 1140 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,160 give him me a Copa. And then when he does, it's 1141 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,840 like, well, damn it, you know, why don't you know better And 1142 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,080 like why don't you, You know, like there's really no right 1143 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,320 answer you can make as a coach and we're kind of pissed either 1144 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,280 way. But that's the relationship, 1145 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:11,760 man. Like that's why you make four 1146 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,680 and a half million dollars. That's why we're fans. 1147 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:20,960 Like and that's I just I I I continually get, I don't get it 1148 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,760 when it's like the it's it. It always seems to come back on 1149 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,920 the fans in IU and maybe it's the same in every other fan base 1150 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,160 but it's like in football you and I have this discussion like 1151 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,320 once every, you know 1.2 years where it's like it's always the 1152 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,360 fans fault. Like they're they're either too 1153 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,480 somehow the IU football fans are too fanatic or they don't show 1154 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,120 up enough or you know there's not enough passion. 1155 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,280 It's like on that side of the street it's like nobody cares. 1156 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,800 The fans need to care more. The fans are ever showing up and 1157 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,520 then on this side of, you know, the the complex, it's like, oh, 1158 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,760 the fans care too much like, well, what do you want? 1159 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,720 Why is it always the fans fault? Like I just don't understand 1160 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:55,920 that. Well, I just. 1161 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,280 Yeah. I mean, it's always the fans 1162 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,000 fault because the fans aren't a person. 1163 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:07,600 The the the fans are a concept. And look, we have a tendency to 1164 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:14,120 pick the the worst exemplars of behavior and use those. 1165 00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,040 Greg Doyle did this in in the column that he wrote after the 1166 00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,760 The Mcneely news came out, where it's like, let's let's pick the 1167 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,800 the worst stuff or the stuff that's the most extreme. 1168 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,720 And then that becomes a proxy for all fan behavior, which is 1169 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,160 of course garbage. That's a nonsense, you know, 1170 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,480 logical approach to things. But that's what people do 1171 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:40,120 because people tend to equate what they see to what reality 1172 00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,520 must be, even if that's not always the case. 1173 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,520 Now, I will say that what's fascinating about this whole 1174 00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:51,920 thing is like a lot of people have taken the fact that there 1175 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,800 were rumors, unsourced rumors, you know, rumors that didn't 1176 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,840 have names attached to them, rumors that weren't coming 1177 00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,480 through traditional press circles. 1178 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,640 You know, that we're on the Trilly Donovan Discord or or on 1179 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,840 some of the other message boards that cover Indiana. 1180 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,080 They have taken those. They have noted that, wow, OK, 1181 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,520 these these two players are coming back. 1182 01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,600 They're not apparently, aggrieved with Mike Woodson, so 1183 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,520 therefore everything must be hunky Dory. 1184 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,680 And everybody was just making everything up because they were 1185 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,160 trying to get Mike Woodson fired. 1186 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,520 I find that approach fascinating, but it also kind of 1187 01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,720 fits in with this whole thing that Woodson's doing with these 1188 01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,960 comments, which is drawing lines in the sand. 1189 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,880 And what's what I find fascinating about all of that 1190 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,200 is, and I think you pointed this out really well just a couple 1191 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:45,000 minutes ago, you really need to try to after a season like this, 1192 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,040 a season that, I'm sorry, by any objective measure of Indiana 1193 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,120 history was it was a big disappointment. 1194 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,440 You know what was, was a big 10 championship in the offing? 1195 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,040 No, of course not. Nobody picked that was missing 1196 01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,560 the NCAA tournament by 30 plus spots on the bubble. 1197 01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,360 A likely scenario. Not according to most of the 1198 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,320 projections I saw. I know we had a few people who, 1199 01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,120 you know, thought that Indiana would be worse, but most people 1200 01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,400 had them in that 567 range and thought they'd be in the NCAA 1201 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:12,760 tournament, albeit as a lower seat. 1202 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,080 That was what we thought as well. 1203 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,720 The play hasn't been good enough all season. 1204 01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,440 The players have been disappointing you, You know, at 1205 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,720 one point you were leading the nation in flagrant fouls and and 1206 01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,360 players getting ejected as such. You know, at one point you went, 1207 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,360 it felt like entire stretches of games where you weren't even 1208 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,320 thinking about shooting a three. Your offense resembled something 1209 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,360 from 1984. Your your defense was a sieve. 1210 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,000 You know you've currently got 0 recruits in the hopper for the 1211 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,280 2425 season. You've currently got 0 recruits. 1212 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,720 You know in, you know, strongly leaning towards you in the 2526 1213 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,440 season that we know of. You're likely going to lose your 1214 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,640 best player and most consistent performer over the course of the 1215 01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,120 last month and 1/2 to the NBA Draft. 1216 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,000 Rightfully so. You've got two other players who 1217 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,080 are what I would charitably term as, like Portal risks at this 1218 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,280 point, and you've got a bunch of players who haven't really 1219 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,320 developed, barely played down the stretch. 1220 01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,360 I say all of that because this is the offseason where you 1221 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:19,760 desperately need to get everybody under the tent and say 1222 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,400 things didn't go great this year, but gosh, we made it 1223 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:25,960 through. We've we've finished off 1224 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,600 relatively strong. We need everybody's support as 1225 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,720 we move forward. And I guess that's where my 1226 01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,920 biggest problems with Woodson's comments are, is that he went 1227 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,680 out and had a chance to either leave it alone and act like it 1228 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,840 wasn't bothering him in the program or he had an opportunity 1229 01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:43,600 to go out and try to reunite things. 1230 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,600 And instead he chose the polarization option. 1231 01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,680 And whether or not he was aiming that those comments at a very 1232 01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,000 small subset of a small subset of online fans or whether he was 1233 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,120 aiming that at everybody who hasn't been unquestioningly 1234 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,800 supportive of IU. He left it so open for 1235 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,400 interpretation. And then kind of his doubled and 1236 01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,760 tripled down on it where he's not going to talk about his job 1237 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,680 and his job performance. And he thinks he's done a great 1238 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,240 job and his job or whatever words to that effect. 1239 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,640 And he's not going to talk about recruiting, even though that's 1240 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,160 what's got most people freaked out again. 1241 01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,800 It just all seems so tone deaf and so divorced from the reality 1242 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:24,880 that A this is a program, which, as you said, is one of the most 1243 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,520 supported programs in the country. 1244 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:30,600 And it's got fans who have been sold a bill of goods that has 1245 01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,680 not come due for 25 years. And there's a variety of reasons 1246 01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,000 for that. But it's also a program that's 1247 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,520 going to need people to donate to NIL, It's going to need 1248 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,520 people to buy tickets. It's going to need people to 1249 01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,280 travel to the Bahamas. It's like, you know, the number 1250 01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,480 of people as as as you've talked about, as I've talked about on 1251 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,320 previous shows, as we hear from people across the board, the 1252 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,480 number of people who are just kind of checked out on IU 1253 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,600 basketball in general. They don't find it entertaining. 1254 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,360 They find it a slog to watch. A lot of times there's just 1255 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,960 there's not a huge amount to be like really proud of on a 1256 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,600 national level. To decide that this is the 1257 01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:10,080 moment that we're going to draw lines in the sand and say true 1258 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:13,280 fans and not true fans seems really, really dumb to me. 1259 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,720 I, I echo something. You know, you've my wife has 1260 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:18,840 done this to me. You've done this for me, good 1261 01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:20,160 friends done. Like, I've had moments where 1262 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,640 should I say something about this particular thing? 1263 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,800 You're like, you're like, no, it's not going to change 1264 01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,360 anyone's mind. And you know in the end here 1265 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,200 it's like I, I, I almost wish Woodson would have asked 1266 01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,400 somebody about like, hey, I'm going to say this like, no, 1267 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,600 don't. Because honestly, like if you 1268 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:39,760 want to get people back, a comment at like, this is not, 1269 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,640 you know, I wasn't going to hear this and they'd be like, oh man, 1270 01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,520 you know, I really, I took a moment, took some stock and I 1271 01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:46,920 really changed my mind like what's going to change and that 1272 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:48,760 this is, I guess the part I'll end with. 1273 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,400 It's just like it is kind of tone deaf to the reality of 1274 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,760 this. It's like this has nothing to do 1275 01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,760 with Mike Woodson as a person. Mike Woodson's love for I you, 1276 01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:57,960 Mike Woodson's playing time here. 1277 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,440 This is just, I want my basketball team to be good and I 1278 01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,200 want the coach of that team to be. 1279 01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,280 I want the team to be good and therefore the coach will be good 1280 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,640 because those things will go in. And it's like if you want to 1281 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,480 change the narrative, Mike, go in again, go in the Big 10 1282 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,440 tournament. Like that's how you change the 1283 01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,720 narrative. Not not being pissy at Senior 1284 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,560 Day or talking about, you know, things that happened online. 1285 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,440 Go in the Big 10 tournament, like go do something about this. 1286 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:28,240 Go do something that is beyond what we are expecting, you know? 1287 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,920 And I think that's the part that that bothers me, is like, it 1288 01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,200 does feel like once we get into these discussions about fans and 1289 01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,040 support and true fans and real fans, like, we're circling the 1290 01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,960 drain of how far this, like where this is going to go, 1291 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:43,920 'cause like once you get into those, we, we've been there with 1292 01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,320 football many times. Once we're in the true fan 1293 01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,920 discussion, like this is just a race to the bottom and now we're 1294 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,040 just waiting for the clock to run out and we'll wait for a new 1295 01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:53,920 administration to come in and solve things. 1296 01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:55,720 And then we get our honeymoon period back again. 1297 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,600 I mean, that's honestly, it is not a good sign. 1298 01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,440 So it's like just focus on winning the Big 10 tournament 1299 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,360 like and that that shouldn't be a bridge too far. 1300 01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,800 Like maybe not this year but at some point we got to do it. 1301 01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,920 Or or focus on getting this offseason so right that you can 1302 01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,720 go compete for a Big Ten title in a national championship next 1303 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,160 year. Like go focus on those things 1304 01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,920 and in the end and then guess what, the support will be there. 1305 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,040 Yeah, I mean that's that's about as straightforward as it gets. 1306 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,440 And and ultimately look, I'm glad that there there's more 1307 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,200 support that had been rumored for Woodson among certain 1308 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:33,560 players based upon the comments that were made after the end of 1309 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,640 the the Senior Day or during the Senior Day celebration from 1310 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:37,920 Anthony Leal and from Trey Galloway. 1311 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,960 I think that's great and I'm, I'm glad that the team is 1312 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,960 playing better and I think that that's excellent. 1313 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:51,640 I I just think at this point Indiana's acting like a team 1314 01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,400 that's being unfairly criticized and most of what's been out 1315 01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,080 there has been pretty fair criticism. 1316 01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,960 And yes, are there people who have unreasonable voices? 1317 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,360 Sure. There's people that have 1318 01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,240 unreasonable voices all over the place. 1319 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,240 I I'm struggling and Scott, maybe you missed this and and I 1320 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:10,920 certainly have missed it, but maybe someone has. 1321 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:15,200 Can you find me the senior day celebrations from other teams in 1322 01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:19,960 Indiana's situation where their coaches decided to try to call 1323 01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,960 out certain people in the fan base or drew lines between true 1324 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,400 fans and others? I I haven't seen any reports of 1325 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,640 those things anywhere. Maybe it's happened. 1326 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:34,080 It just seems I'm just trying to imagine like John Calipari 1327 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,320 trying to pull something like that at a senior day at Kentucky 1328 01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,680 where his team was going to miss the NCAA tournament and how that 1329 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:45,280 would have gone over among those fans or? 1330 01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,600 Dude I have Kentucky fans in my life for here they they want a 1331 01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:50,240 fire Cal party who get somebody else. 1332 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,360 I mean like they're they're ready to be done with him and he 1333 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,760 has a title and he's done well with them. 1334 01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,640 No, it's it's something I talked about this morning is like and 1335 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,520 you know this way more than I do being in media but it's like you 1336 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,720 there is there is also this like, you know, I don't know 1337 01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:07,840 15,000,000 people watched the Oscars last night. 1338 01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,840 That's a real that's a real something. 1339 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,000 And then like there will be these news stories where it's 1340 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,760 like, man, this went viral. It's like there is no way to 1341 01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,279 like viral can be 10,000 views and like it's really a nothing 1342 01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:20,200 burger. And so some of this like, oh 1343 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,080 man, like IU fan base is going nuts on this or like man, 1344 01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,040 they're they're they're going viral on this mean tweet. 1345 01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,319 And it's like maybe it was the same 70 people retweeting 1346 01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:31,279 something. Like there is there is no way to 1347 01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:34,560 like like figure out what what is viral and what isn't like how 1348 01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,000 far it is. So sometimes this gets over, 1349 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,279 nothing gets overblown and then you get guys like Greg Doyle 1350 01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:40,880 writing the stuff about how toxic it is. 1351 01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,640 It's like, well there's small areas of the Internet that are 1352 01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,640 massively toxic. But I I don't know. 1353 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,520 I. In the end, winning solves all 1354 01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:50,240 of these. Ills. 1355 01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,359 Well, and this is the thing I, what I'm fascinated by moving 1356 01:08:53,359 --> 01:08:57,439 forward is like how how does the how does Indiana play over these 1357 01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,120 last couple of games, however many it is? 1358 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,160 It could be one game. It could be three or four or 1359 01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,920 five games. How, how does the reporting 1360 01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:07,399 occur? You know, because look, I mean 1361 01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:11,880 there's there's no secret like if you go to likepeaks.com, like 1362 01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:17,600 there's been some very, very blunt criticism and you know, 1363 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,720 highlights of of Mike Woodson's problems or inadequacies on the 1364 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,279 recruiting trail from from that site. 1365 01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:25,920 You should go check that out yourself. 1366 01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,520 There's been, there's been, there's been, we. 1367 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,800 We talked about this in the previous podcast we did. 1368 01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,240 When you've got, you know, Sam Vicenti who covers the NBA for a 1369 01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,840 living or when you've got, you know, other podcasts that are 1370 01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,279 just like dropping stuff, you know, I it's hard. 1371 01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,960 It's it's really hard to believe this isn't just a me thing. 1372 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,760 I think just in general, like the idea that all of that is 1373 01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,600 being made-up and that everybody's picking on poor Mike 1374 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,120 Woodson, not oh, these are actually artifacts of things 1375 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,960 that are occurring. And wow, you know, you've also 1376 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,400 had a season that was really below expectations that that 1377 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,440 seems to track with things. And you're also recruiting 1378 01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:06,280 significantly below expectations, not just as as 1379 01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,480 Indiana, but just as a big 10 school that's got the amount of 1380 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:15,000 nil budget that Indiana's got. I don't believe there, Mike. 1381 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:19,000 The The idea that there's some kind of grand conspiracy against 1382 01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,640 Mike Woodson in the Indiana basketball program by a small 1383 01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:26,080 number of people who are somehow so crazy and toxic that we can't 1384 01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,680 name them but they're but they're so good at what they're 1385 01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:32,840 doing that they're orchestrating this nationwide campaign to 1386 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,560 create problems for Mike Woodson that that seems silly to me on 1387 01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,520 its face. The thing that I'll say is I 1388 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,920 think that where some people are getting ahead of themselves, 1389 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:46,920 myself included, is you know we need to see how this offseason 1390 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,480 plays out. Right now as I see it based on 1391 01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:52,440 everything we've talked about, you know what we have in the 1392 01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:55,000 recruiting portal, which is nothing and then the how the 1393 01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,360 transfer portal is going to work. 1394 01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,840 I don't see how you put together a roster that's going to compete 1395 01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,440 for you know an NCAA berth or or get there now. 1396 01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,440 Like this is where fans are wrong. 1397 01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:10,160 Like you need to give and I'm, I'm wrong on this too. 1398 01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:13,720 Like you need to to let the process work itself out and and 1399 01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,800 then maybe there is a path that you and I and other fans don't 1400 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,680 know about And there's the the things are already lined up to 1401 01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,240 happen and we are going to nail the right portal people that we 1402 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,440 need to put together a team that can get us there. 1403 01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,000 And and I would love this is where fans are easy. 1404 01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,400 I'd love to be proven wrong and like that's great. 1405 01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:33,120 We're dumb. Like that's right. 1406 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,640 But you know this this is where you know you you see some of 1407 01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:39,560 this and like you know in the Tom Allen era where it's kind of 1408 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,520 getting you know, we got to focus on more Leo and this and 1409 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:42,560 that. It's like dude Tom you got to 1410 01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,080 focus on getting this team to be better like because most you're 1411 01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,400 going to be fired and that's what's what happens. 1412 01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,840 That's what I would look at. That's what I would look at. 1413 01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,600 This is like Mike like whether you're true fans or non fans it 1414 01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,280 doesn't matter. You have a bunch of if you win a 1415 01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:56,640 title you have a bunch of fake fans. 1416 01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,240 Like you need to worry about putting together a team that 1417 01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,000 could compete at a high level next year because if you don't 1418 01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,160 you're probably not going to be a coach next the year after. 1419 01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:07,440 No. It's funny, funny to mention the 1420 01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:09,880 football thing because I remember we did our pre season 1421 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,360 previews and it was like you guys are being too negative to 1422 01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,720 that, To that it's like well actually we were too positive 1423 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,240 and. And and and like and I I can't 1424 01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,960 help but think about the way that we evaluated Indiana 1425 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,200 Basketball's offseason last year. 1426 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,760 And it was, well, Mike Woodson and his staff deserve the 1427 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,840 benefit of the doubt in terms of they they OK. 1428 01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,200 They've, they've looked at the roster, they've gone out, 1429 01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,480 they've done XY and Z, They brought these people into the 1430 01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:38,760 portal or in from the portal. And they're going to try to 1431 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,240 integrate these other players. And it's going to work because 1432 01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,880 of the fact that we now trust Woodson because he was able to 1433 01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,920 take the previous year's team and go to the NCAA tournament 1434 01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:50,760 and finish tied for second in the conference. 1435 01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,840 Well, you didn't really live up to that level of trust. 1436 01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:58,600 You know, if you look at the choices that were made, the 1437 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,280 choices in many cases were wrong. 1438 01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,520 They were right choices. Certainly Khalil Ware ended up 1439 01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,040 being a a really good pickup in the portal. 1440 01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,880 Mackenzie and Baco, after some struggles, ended up becoming a 1441 01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,760 pretty consistent piece. But you ended up crafting a team 1442 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,880 that was less than the sum of its individual parts. 1443 01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:22,720 And as you point out, you know if Indiana's strategy, and we'll 1444 01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,040 get into this more once the season's over, whenever that is. 1445 01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,400 But it it appears Indiana's strategy is going to be, we're 1446 01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,960 going to try to outspend everyone in the portal for the 1447 01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:36,480 best players. And as we've tried to point out 1448 01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:40,200 over the last couple of weeks, that's a really, really iffy 1449 01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:41,920 strategy. I've yet to see anybody 1450 01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:48,040 effectively do it in a way that added pieces to a team that 1451 01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,120 didn't already have a bunch of pieces already there that it 1452 01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,800 could just plug into the system. And we've also talked about, 1453 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,760 well, Indiana's going to have to change their system. 1454 01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,400 And again, that seems very implausible given what we've 1455 01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:03,280 seen the first three seasons. So look, this is where again, I 1456 01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,840 think we talked about this last time and and we'll wrap up after 1457 01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:11,240 this, a lot of the criticism is less about the season 1458 01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:15,480 disappointing as it was. It's about the trajectory which 1459 01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,920 it, you know, it's the question of do you get concerned about 1460 01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:23,240 the the runaway train when you see it like way down the tracks 1461 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:24,800 or when it's getting closer to you. 1462 01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:28,600 And I think that that's the concern here is that Indiana's 1463 01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,800 put themselves in a position where they're they're going to 1464 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,240 have to do something that nobody else has really done in this 1465 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,360 portal era in order to put together A-Team. 1466 01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:42,280 That's going to be not just like NCAA tournament berth 1467 01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:45,880 competitive but significantly more than that and and that's 1468 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:48,560 that's you know because because ultimately again if this was 1469 01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,080 truly a speed bump year what is that's the one question like 1470 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,000 what is success for Indiana basketball and I think we have 1471 01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,680 to keep coming back to that. So that's that's where we're at. 1472 01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,440 It's kind of like the micro of this season that you know at the 1473 01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:04,800 beginning I remember having podcasts with you go back and 1474 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,120 listen to it, you know after the the you know Louisville that 1475 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,200 that Connecticut Louisville game and we're talking like end of 1476 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:11,560 November. It's like we have a podcast and 1477 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,080 we're kind of like all right well we you know because after 1478 01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:16,120 the sorry keep on saying after after the Auburn game it's like 1479 01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,360 well we kind of got to win the Kansas game or else like or else 1480 01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,640 the the metrics are just going like in mid-december you and I 1481 01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:24,040 were talking about and you were leading the charge give you full 1482 01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,200 credit. Just like the path has already 1483 01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,280 really narrowed for us to make it NCAA tournament berth and you 1484 01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:32,360 knew that in mid-december and you could look at that and be 1485 01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,600 like oh you haven't played the whole big 10 season and like you 1486 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,840 never know And it's like OK those things are all true and 1487 01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,360 like a lot of things could happen that are outside the 1488 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,200 metrics like they didn't this season played out about the way 1489 01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:43,480 you thought it would. We're 10 and 10. 1490 01:15:43,480 --> 01:15:46,600 We're 500, the Big 10 and here we sit March 11th and we are 1491 01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:48,760 nowhere near the bubble and that's exactly what we knew in 1492 01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,480 December. And I I think that's similar to 1493 01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:53,480 what we're looking at the, you know, where we're looking at the 1494 01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:56,480 program moving forward like you and I just look at things like 1495 01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,160 that are just kind of concerning warning bells As you look a 1496 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:04,200 little deeper, if you look at the very, very 25,000 foot view, 1497 01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:08,040 it's like, yeah, in December of this year Indiana was seven and 1498 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:09,400 one with a road win in the Big 10. 1499 01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,400 You can be like it's silly to think we're not going to make 1500 01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,440 the NCAA tournament. It's like, well, so here we are 1501 01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,200 and you could look at it from a very high level and be like, all 1502 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,080 right, two years in a row, you made the tournament, you missed 1503 01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:20,560 one year. It's like, what's the big deal? 1504 01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:25,520 It's like, well, because we see the issues that could be coming 1505 01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,960 and those are, you know, whether they have or haven't happened 1506 01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,840 yet, they are real, real issues and your your the the road is 1507 01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:34,720 narrowing. Anyway, so anyway, that'll wrap 1508 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,840 things up for us on this show. Thanks to all you folks for 1509 01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:38,920 listening. We'll be back in action later on 1510 01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,680 this week. Indiana back in action as well 1511 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,640 later on this week, as they'll take on the winner of Penn State 1512 01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,720 and Michigan in the Big 10 tournament. 1513 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,240 And of course, at the end of this week, we'll find out both 1514 01:16:48,480 --> 01:16:51,480 whether the men are in a tournament and where the women 1515 01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:54,720 will be in the NCAA Tournament. For Scott, I'm Galen. 1516 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:56,160 This is Crimson Cast. Thanks for joining us. 1517 01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,320 Thanks to home field apparel. And thanks to the whole back 1518 01:16:58,320 --> 01:16:59,640 home network. We'll catch you folks. 1519 01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,320 On the flip side, bring back the Bison. 1520 01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:03,280 So long, everybody.