You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home
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Galen Clavio joining you here. Pleasure to be talking with you
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your e-mail inbox. We have a special guest today on
Crimson Cast. We are delighted to be joined by
former Indiana quarterback Chris.
Ditto Chris. For those of you who have been
around IU football for a while, that's a name that you would
almost certainly remember was part of some excellent memories
from the early 90s with IU football also was there as the
Mallory era kind of tailed off and and ended up ceasing.
In 1996, we had a chance to talk in depth with Chris about his
recruitment to IU, what it was like playing under Bill Mallory
and that coaching staff, what it was like being a part of Indiana
football during a really fascinating and kind of pivotal
time in the history of IU football.
We're really appreciative of Chris for taking the time to
talk with us. It's a long interview.
I think for those of you especially that have been
following IU football since the 70s, eighties, 90s, you'll get a
lot out of this interview. And those of you who have just
found IU football recently with the hiring of Chris Cignetti and
some of the successes Indiana's had in the past five or six
years, this is a nice bridge back to the past to hear how IU
football operated in a different era, but a very important era
within the history of IU football.
And joining us on Crimson Cast as promised, we have former IU
starting quarterback Chris Ditto.
Chris is gracious enough to join us here today and I'm looking
forward to this conversation. Chris, I think I told you this
on e-mail when you reached out, but I have vivid memories of you
playing for IU as as a younger person myself, right before I
got to campus, I got to IU in 1997.
You were there in the mid 90s. Great to have you on the show.
How you doing today? I'm doing great.
Thanks for having me. Excited for the conversation as
well. And I guess I will just start
off by saying I apologize that you had to spend your high
school years watching IU football from 1993 to 1996.
There were some very very good times but unfortunately there
were some difficult times as well for the end of a career of
what I feel is the best IU coach to go through there and and Bill
Mallory in the last 50 or so years and and a coach that I
just it's he's cut from a different cloth and I just don't
think they make those types of coaches anymore from kind of the
Woody Hayes coaching tree and yeah look forward to talking
more about him and and kind of those years as they are just
incredibly fond memories. Yeah, it was an interesting
time. I mean, I, my dad was an IU
football fan, an IU basketball fan.
Basketball always kind of made sense.
Yeah, the they were winning. They were winning championships
and, you know, competing for the Big 10.
And it's, it's interesting because, you know, when I
started watching IU football in earnest, I was about, I don't
know, six years old, seven years old.
And that was when the Mallory era was really starting to kick
off. And I can remember listening to
that All American Bowl game on the radio where they're, they're
playing Florida State, obviously.
Remember the 87 and 88 seasons. You know, for you as a as a
football player, as a quarterback coming up, you know,
as as you're playing high school and thinking about where you're
going to college. Like, when did IU get on your
radar as a place that you might want to go to college?
And how did you end up coming to Bloomington?
Well, so back then. The recruiting process started a
lot later than it does now. You know, I think coaches and
potential athletes are being contacted 8th grade freshman
year, especially in basketball and softball and baseball and
some other sports. Football might be a little
later, but still, it's much earlier.
I wasn't really. I didn't really get recruited
until after my start, getting recruited until after my junior
season of high school and we had a very successful high school
program out of Fort Wayne IN Bishop Wenger High School and we
had just won A state championship and had just great
success and our team was really a running team more than
passing. But I was I had just some
numbers that that you can't really coach.
I was 6/6 and about 200 lbs. And then had a strong arm and
well was incredibly slow and and I got some funny stories about
how slow I was as well at IU. But so started getting some
phone call letters more more so letters in the mail from pretty
much every big 10 school, some SCC schools.
And then there was a coach out at UCLA that somehow found out
about me and and really recruited me hard.
So throughout the recruiting process I narrowed it down to
five schools which were Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin
and UCLA and took my first official visit to UCLA.
And that really opened my eyes. My dad and I went out to LA I'd
never been there before. Really opened my eyes to kind of
the recruiting process. And I don't know if you've seen
the movie, The program, but a lot of the scenes in that movie
are true. And those things do happen.
And I experienced some of those, which back when I was 16 or 17
from a smaller town in Indiana, I saw some things that I've
never seen before. And while I loved it was Terry
Donahue was the coach at the time.
Obviously the campus at UCLA was incredible.
Their pitch was, listen, don't look at it as your two thousand
1500 miles away. It's a four hour plane ride and
that's it. Well, at the end of the day that
just really didn't sit too well with me because I was very close
with my family and I had. I have an older sister who went
to IU, she's about four, she's six years older than me
actually, and I saw her experience.
That's when I first started going to Bloomington and going
to IU football games when she was a student at IU and and then
back. That was back, You know, in my
senior year, high school 1991. That was the year Trent Green
had an incredible year. They beat Baylor in the Copper
Bowl. They won 24 to 0 and it really
came down for me to IU in Michigan.
Although I went to Wisconsin, Wisconsin was kind of on that
uptick with Barry Alvarez. Ohio State was always good, but
I did go to Ohio State on a visit and I was sitting at a
table prior to a football prior to a game.
And I was with my mom and dad and friend and Cooper, John
Cooper to our table and he started rubbing my best friends
from high school's shoulders. He's like, hey Chris, how's it
going, man, It's really, we're really excited to have you here.
And I'm like, hey, sorry coach, I'm Chris.
And so that, you know, it was funny.
And my, my my buddy was like, hey, that's Chris across the
table and you know John Cooper, you know, he was a great coach,
but I don't think ever had struggle with Michigan didn't
really take off there. So they got rid of him.
And then Michigan had Elvis Gerbach, who was incredible, a
six foot five pocket passer. And then they had Todd Collins,
6 foot five pocket passer and their pitch was, you know you're
going to be, you're going to watch Elvis Kerbach when you red
shirt. Then you're going to sit behind
Todd Collins for two years as a freshman and sophomore and then
it's going to be your program. It's going to be your team as a
junior and senior. That was just how Michigan did
things and obviously that was a great pitch.
Cam Cameron was recruiting me there.
He was a quarterback coach at Michigan at the time and that
was it was it was really close to going to Michigan.
But at the end of the day, I was raised in Indiana.
I wanted to stay loyal to the state of Indiana.
I love Bill Mallory. Bob Morris was the recruited me
out of Bloomington. He came up to Fort Wayne a
number of times And so it was just one of those things that
I've I've you know I've got to know Trent Green throughout the
recruiting process. He sold me on Indiana and on my
official visit had a great time as well and saw and did a lot of
things that you know Bloomington just became and still is part of
really my heart and soul. I I love it.
My I met my wife there we were married in Bloomington and
unfortunately I have two of our kids have gone to IU.
So ended up there and enter. Enrolled this summer of 1992.
And that began a really, really up and down roller coaster.
Five years of a career. So you you start in 92 and that
year if I remember correctly that was there were there were
several years in the Mallory era where it felt like the team was
like almost able to get over the hump and not quite obviously.
I think the most famous one is the 89 season where the Anthony
Thompson probably should have won the Heisman.
They end up losing to Purdue in that last game.
They don't make a bowl that 92 season.
I remember being a similar one in that, like there were some
successes clearly, but I think that team finished five and six.
They lost at Purdue in the bucket game.
I was in the stands for that game.
I remember getting getting taunted by Purdue fans as I was
walking out of the stadium. So, which you know.
So it from your perspective as a freshman, I mean what what was
it like coming in red shirting, you know, kind of seeing Bill
Mallory and his coaching staff in action, you know, right off
the bat and seeing a program that you know at that point had
been what to two bowl games in a row.
And I'm guessing there was at least a decent amount of
confidence in the building about what was going on with the
program. Right.
Well, there's a few things that really stick out in my mind from
that first year and the first one being coming in as a true
freshman. And honestly thinking there is
no way I can go out there from just a mental standpoint and
physical for that matter and play quarterback at this level
right now. And just because there's so many
things that that that are thrown at you from reading defenses,
from free reading the kind of the front seven and what they're
doing and then obviously the secondary and figuring out OK,
what are they doing and the calls that you have to make as a
quarterback. And and so there was back then
there was no question. I think there were about 25 guys
in our class and 23 of them red shirted and that was just how it
was. And if you didn't red shirt, it
was because somebody got hurt. So you had to you had to fill in
whether it was on special teams. And I think there were two guys
in our recruiting class that didn't red shirt.
And so they then would automatically become a part of
that other class, because they would move up and only have
three more years of eligibility the next year.
But one one memory stuck in stuck in my mind was that team
played at Northwestern and a few of us drove up to Evanston.
We were red shirting, like let's go up to the game, let's watch
it, let's support the team. And they were very inviting.
We were in the locker room before the game.
We were on the sidelines. And then I vividly remember we
won the game and the coaches and the team, the relief that they
showed for winning a game on the road in the Big 10 was I I could
just feel it in the locker room. At the time.
They were, they were, they were relieved.
I felt like they were a little surprised.
I just feel like at that at that point I was like, man, the
pressure to win at this level is so great that they're so happy
about beating Northwestern, who at that time was terrible.
I mean was not was in 1992 and in the 80s.
I think they were the losing this program in the country.
So coming in I'm thinking you know this is we're Indiana,
we're on we're we're we go to bowl games.
We beat teams like Northwestern it's no problem and I was like
wow this is incredible and and I can I just started to see the
pressure that one Trent Green was under.
One that coach Floyd Keith, who was my quarterback coach of the
time, was under just to win, just to win a game.
And so that was, that's always, always stuck in my mind.
And then the other one was my they that year, the Purdue game,
I was they they had me travel because they wanted me to
experience the whole thing because I was going to be the
backup quarterback to John Pacey the following year.
So they they said, Chris, we're going to bring you, we want you
to just travel with the team and go on the bus.
You'll just go through everything and you'll dress,
which I hadn't dressed on a road game or traveled on a road game
that entire year. But they wanted me to go through
that. So the next year, I was prepared
and knew kind of what to expect. And that also opened my eyes to
#1 what the Purdue rivalry was all about.
And that was so important to coach Mallory and that entire
coaching staff that literally stuck together for the most
part. 90% of that coaching staff stuck together for the 13 years
that he was there, that Coach Mallory was there and the
intensity of the bus ride up, the Friday night walkthrough,
the Friday night meal, the film that we watched before we were
went on, went to bed check the the next morning how quiet it
was like. I mean the intent it was almost
the quiet and the the just, the tenseness was almost like a
really sad funeral. In what?
In a way because people were just so locked in because we
were playing Purdue. We were five and five and this
was a shot at a bowl game and we go through the game and we just
we we the expectations of that season was probably a seven or
eight win team, but there were a lot of injuries and things going
on that that people really don't know about.
For example, we were down to our third start, the third string
starting center started the second-half of the season and
when you're down to your third string center, you and you just
have no chance. And this poor guy, his name was
Josh DeWitt, great guy. I think he was probably 6,
three, £250 at the time and had no chance.
I mean, and he knew it, everyone knew it and it you just kind of
felt bad for him. But there really wasn't anyone
there that could play. So that was a big part of the
reason for the struggles. But anyway, we're we're driving
at the end of that game and I don't know if you remember this,
but. I remember 100% goal line.
Trent Green rolls out, throws a pass to his left, it gets
intercepted, the guy runs back down the field.
Green ends up getting a personal foul for pulling the guy's face.
Remember it like it was yesterday?
That's amazing. That is amazing.
And and I'm standing there on the sidelines and I see Trent
rolling to his left and I see the interception.
The guy starts running out of the end zone.
Trent has an angle on him, gets it probably to about the 40 yard
line, grabs his face mask, windmills him into the fence at
Ross Ade Stadium and it was right in front of me and I'm
just like, Oh my God, what is going on?
Then the the entire Purdue defense is on top of Trent and
there's a pretty good melee that gets separated and I see Chris
Zaganina, their big nose tackle, start running in there and just
tossing people left and right and I'm like, wow, what I'm
thinking, this sucks. We just lost.
But I'm also thinking this is incredible and I can't wait till
next season. And that next season was a
fascinating one. You know, really kind of
underrated as far as the greatest seasons in IU football
history. You know, a season where Indiana
goes eight and three in the regular season, which I mean,
anything above the seven win mark always feels like bonus
territory historically for IU football.
It was an interesting season, though for for a couple of
reasons. I mean, a the we saw and you
mentioned it earlier like Wisconsin kind of coming out of
their shell. That was a game I went to
actually as well as I remember it was a rainy day.
Wisconsin comes in and pretty much handles Indiana in that
game in Memorial Stadium and that was like the first time in
forever that Wisconsin had been good and they would stay good
essentially. Well, until now they still
haven't really sunset that. But then there were two Rd.
games, the game at Penn State and the game at Ohio State that
were both really close games. Indiana was kind of shockingly
in shockingly to the world. I guess in both games it just
felt like, you know, that team could either play really good
defense and and shut down opponents or or keep pace with
some really good offenses in the league throughout the course of
the year. Yes.
And that that team I think was molded into a quintessential
Bill Mallory football team because we had, I I think that
was the last best defense that Indiana has ever had and maybe
arguably the best defense that they've ever had from the front
four down lineman to your three or four linebackers into the
second era. I think, I I think there were
eight or nine guys off that defense that played significant
time in the NFL. You know the entire defensive
line did. There were a couple linebackers.
There were a couple guys in the secondary and.
Well, yeah. Bernard Whittington played for
the Colts. Damon Watts played for the
Colts. Charles Beauchamp, I think
played a bit in the league. Herb McCormick.
Was all in the with the Cowboys for a while.
Lance Brown was drafted by The Jets and then you had the world
famous Chris Dyer which I I know you're familiar with him and the
and and and what he said in the 1993 season.
Absolutely. And I can't imagine what it
would be like if he said that this day and age and we can get
that and we can get to that. But that that defense.
So our defense was incredible and we had a special teams that
were just incredibly disciplined.
And it's weird to say, but we had two punters at the time.
We had a punter that could just absolutely kick it 60 or 70
yards in the air. And then we had a punter that
was a really expert pinning the ball inside the tent.
So we had two punter specialists, which was pretty
rare. And offensively, John was
starting for the first time, really athletic, really smart.
And we had a running game running back by committee at
that on and that year we had Thomas Lewis, a receiver who was
a first round pick that no one really knew about at the
beginning of the season. But then he had the Penn State
game where I think he had over 250 yards receiving.
He had a 99 yard touchdown reception.
I guess the Penn State team that was absolutely loaded and John
Pasty had an incredible game that game that that day.
But that was John actually separated his shoulder that game
and that was when I got my first start at Ohio State the
following week, which was also an an incredible experience.
But that team, you know the Wisconsin game that you
mentioned it was, it was a horrible day.
We jumped out to a lead and we had some momentum and then we
turned up and we had a few fumbles that just killed us.
But the ironic part is Wisconsin did end up going to the Rose
Bowl that year in 1993. And the other thing that just
kills me that I I don't wouldn't say I think about it every day,
but I think about it a lot. The five schools that were, you
know, kind of in my final five Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan,
UCLA, they all four went to the Rose Bowl in my five years at
Indiana. And back then, if you're a kid
that's growing up in the Midwest and you play in the Big 10, all
you dream about is playing in the Rose Bowl.
That's the only thing that mattered if you have an
opportunity to play Big 10 football.
And yeah, so maybe I do think about it every day, in fact,
before schools. Seems like it came back pretty
quickly. Absolutely.
I I remember you, you know, starting in that Ohio State game
because it was obviously pacey at that point and kind of
established himself as the guy. And it's like well OK we have
this this young quarterback coming in, red shirt freshman
who's like not really been in this spot before.
I mean in Ohio Stadium and this was granted it was pre expansion
Ohio Stadium, but there's still like a 90,000 seat stadium.
Ohio State's I think 5th in the country at the time.
Like what it what is that like for you as I'm guessing like a
19 year old or 20 year old in that environment?
I mean, what is just, how does how does that register with you
emotionally and mentally? Well, it was, it was.
It was a a big week to say the least and my my mom and dad
actually grew up in Columbus OH and they both went to Ohio State
to at that time I had relatives that have my uncle had a season
tickets to Ohio State. I grew up going to the shoe and
going to Ohio State games my entire childhood and actually
was a big Ohio State fan during the days of Earl Bruce, which
you know, they were, they're Ohio State.
They were. It's just a great program
tradition upon a tradition. And so for me to have my first
start at Ohio State, you know, I again more vivid memories of I
knew John was hurt. I didn't know how serious it
was. And I remember coming into
practice on that Monday and coach Mallory and coach Lynch.
Bill Lynch was the quarterback coach at the time, called me in
the office and they said hey Chris, just want you to know
John's shoulder is not able. He's not going.
You are starting this week and I think I became as white as a
ghost and and what was became hot started hyperventilating
because we were having a great year.
I mean we were seven and two at the time ranked around 16th or
17th in the country, which I tell people, I tell people that
now and they're like what you guys were ranked 16th in the
country. I'm like, yeah, I know it's hard
to believe, but we actually were and and here the reasons are
mainly because of our defense and we were really really
competitive and we almost and then all of these different
things that happened but tried to prepare.
I had to prepare as a starter and I hadn't completed a pass of
my career. I think it was over 2 on the
year and literally getting thrown into the wolves but had a
great week of practice. Coach Lynch who really was a
huge impact on my career at IU even though he was only there
for two years. I and I actually had four
quarterback coaches in my five years there which was also just
challenging because they all had different personalities.
But, and I you know I coach Lynch was and I still think it's
a shame what happened to him in Indiana when he became the head
coach that was you know that that was a whole nother podcast
probably. But he I just have so much
respect for him and the ability that he has to coach up
quarterbacks and and simplify things And that's what he did
for me. Although I did go out and
started that game oh for seven oh for my first seven.
But our defense just kept us in the game.
Our special teams just kept us in the game.
Ended up being able to connect with Thomas Lewis on a touchdown
and Jermaine Cheney was able to break off a couple of runs and
we actually got the ball back with 2 1/2 minutes left down 23
to 17 with an opportunity to win the game.
Every kids freaking dream and all that we had on 1st down on
that drive. Thomas Lewis had been really
hurting them on post corners and going to the corner and we hit a
couple of those. Well he ran a a corner post and
he was wide open and I pat I just held on the ball about a
split second too late allowed the backside safe to come and
knock it down and that was our opportunity but it was that was
an incredible experience one that I will I will never forget
and it won. It was one that yeah playing in
the at Ohio State is is in my opinion is that is the while
their fans are complete blowhards they they have a right
to be. I mean they're good and they've
been good. I hate to compare our Indiana
basketball fans to Ohio State basketball fans but I see some
similarity there similarities there and it was an incredible
experience and John came back the next week and started
against Purdue but couldn't finish the game and I came in, I
think about the middle of the second quarter and didn't do
anything too spectacular but hand the ball off a bunch
completed a couple passes and and we ended up winning that
game which was which was you know which was incredible and
which which what is weird even though we finished eight and
three there was we were still worried about are we going to
get invited to a bowl game. Yeah, this was it, was how it
was back. Then it was an interesting time
and and this would manifest the following year when he finished
six and five and didn't get invited to a bowl game.
But yeah, there weren't as many bowl games at the time.
And it was interesting because now IU doesn't seem to have the
problem of the perception of fans won't travel for bowl games
and and there's so many now it doesn't necessarily matter that
much. But at the time I remember this
being something mentioned a lot that, you know, there were bowl
representatives who didn't think IU fans would come and see them
in bowls. And so they would opt for other
programs that were more likely to go, whether it was like a
Michigan State or an Iowa or whatever.
But yeah, even at 8:00 and 3:00, like you'd think, oh, shoo, in
that's that's like minimum, like Gator Bowl or or Outback Bowl.
Now instead you end up in the Independence Bowl, which isn't
really a premier bowl by any stretch of the imagination.
And that ends up being, I've always thought of that game as
kind of the unfortunate, like, turning point that Indiana
football never came back from going into the halftime.
It's a close game. You're, you know, it's a
Virginia Tech team that's kind of much like Wisconsin having
their first really good season under Frank Beamer.
And then as I know you remember, the bottom just absolutely falls
out in the last minute of the first half.
Right. Yeah, we were.
We were winning. I mean, we were up I think 14 to
13 and we had a, I think a punt blocked or field goal blocked.
Field goal. For touchdowns and and yeah, I I
I've thought about that exactly the way you thought about it as
well because Virginia Tech took off and has been competitive.
Maybe not so much in the last four or five years, but we all
know the years that they have with Michael Vick and the
success that they had with Frank Beamer and and and I often
think, man, that was that game kind of, yeah, a tipping point
for the program. And I mean, Virginia Tech had a
quarterback by the name of Jim Druckenmiller.
I don't know if you remember that.
Oh yeah. But.
But it would play with the 49ers for a little bit.
He was a first round pick. I mean the guy was a bum.
He was my age and that's why I have a little bit of, I guess,
angst towards him because I felt like I was more talented than
him that, but he just, he got a lot more exposure.
He won a lot more games. He was a first round pick.
I mean the draft, the draft class.
My year was so bad that Jim Druckenmiller was a first round
pick and I think he may have been one of the only
quarterbacks drafted that year. But yes, then you know, you take
that momentum in from that game into the 94 summer and then then
the fall of 94, there were just another set of circumstances
that happened and roller coaster of the season.
And that's really where John Pacey and I began.
And I I hate to call it a rivalry, but he was a pretty
well, this is an understanding. He was a pretty under, pretty
competitive guy and I would just say not the most friendly guy
when you get into a quarterback room with him and I think that
just goes back to, you know, his, his kind of his East Coast
personality. Right.
Well, and that that whole period was interesting because there
was kind of this open question about who is the starting
quarterback going into this season.
And it was confusing for fans because, I mean, and then this
is at a time when there's not a lot of coverage.
You know, we you'd get the The Bill Mallory Show on, you know,
whatever Saturdays or Sundays, you'd occasionally get an
article written. But pretty much when Don
Fisher's pregame would start up, you know, before whatever game
was happening that week, that's when you found out what was
happening and who was going to play.
And so we missed a lot of the, I guess the nuance or the back
stories as far as what was actually going on behind the
scenes with that season. Yeah, and that that was, You
know, the weird part, too, was spring practice of 94.
I was the only healthy quarterback, literally.
John Pacey has shoulder surgery and Aaron Greenlee, who was the
3rd quarterback at I'm sorry, Adam Greenlee, who was the 3rd
quarterback at the time, also had shoulder surgery.
So I took all all the reps. I played all when the spring
game came along and coach Mallory loved the spring game.
He loved it to be competitive. He there was a draft and and it
was a big deal. The winners ate steak and
lobster and the losers ate beans and weenies and it was a you
know you sat, you sat in the same room and you the winners
would come in you'd wear a coat and tie if you were if you were
on the winning team and eating the steak and lobster and they
put the losing team like off to in a corner with paper plates
and paper napkins and plastic forks and so.
But I I had to play on both teams.
I would literally switch teams on the from the cream or Crimson
during that particular spring. So going into that fall season,
John was coming back and it was his team, you know, and he would
go and talk to Bob Hamel. I'll talk to anybody.
And he was very adamant about this is my team, this is my
team. There's no competition here.
You know, I, you know, Chris and I are getting along great, but
I'm the guy. I'm the man.
He would literally say all of that in the media, which if that
kind of stuff went on now it would be a lot more significant.
Back then you did, it probably wasn't as noticeable, but when
there the articles did come out, John tried to make it very clear
that he was the guy. And what what, what John and I
were hearing from Coach Mallory was, hey, we're going to do a
rotational system. We're going to rotate both of
you. John does some good things.
Chris does some good things. So we're going to rotate you
guys. Well, that did not sit well with
John at all. He was, I think in Coach
Mallory's office daily, if definitely weekly, if not daily.
And I was just kind of like I got 2-3 more years of this John,
I'm going to do whatever I can to help you, whatever I can do
to help the team. That was just my personality.
I just, you know, I I I wasn't really a confrontational guy.
Of course I wanted to play and I was just like, if I'm going to
get, if I'm given the opportunity, I'm going to do
best I can and if and if it's if it's good enough, then I'm going
to play. If it's not, then John will
play. And he kind of went back and
forth like that until the Penn State game.
And that was really the turning point for me that season in my
in my career overall. The Penn State game.
It's the infamous Penn State game.
You know, this is so to set the scene for those who haven't been
following IU football for this long.
For 30 plus years, right? It's only Galen and me, I think.
I think at this point I think we'll throw Scott in as well.
He remembers this game too, but now this is a game in early
November. Penn State is the number two
team in the country. They've just joined the Big 10
there. The previous year I think was
their first full year. Maybe it was two years earlier,
but they come in and it's expected to be a bloodbath.
Penn State's expected to run away with it, and you guys
played them on national television about as close as
anybody could have expected it. And it was one of those games
where it felt like Penn State was probably going to win.
But every time they took a lead that was substantial, there'd be
a touchdown pass from you or there'd be a big play from IU.
It ends up being a six point loss to Penn State, but that is
still pointed to is the reason why Penn State doesn't win the
national championship that year. So I mean, talk us through how
that whole thing went. So that it's, it's funny and I
still if I'm it's this is crazy. If I'm anywhere in the country
and I come across a Penn State football fan, though, they are,
their fans are as crazy as any fans as there are in the
country. And they know the history of
Penn State football and they know the history of 1994.
And then they remember who was the quarterback for Indiana that
where this happened. And so as you mentioned, Penn
State, I actually think they're ranked #1.
In the country. And they had Kerry Collins
Kajana Carter Kyle Brady all they all three that next spring
went in the top 12 picks of the NFL draft.
They ended up going 12 and well, so we play the game, John is
struggling a bit. They pull him and they put me in
about the middle of the second quarter and and I just start out
really, really hot. Drive the team down, throw a
touchdown pass we go up 7. Nothing Memorial.
Our defense is also playing incredibly well against this the
high-powered offense, probably the best offense in the country
in 1994 Memorial Stadium. I think I'd probably get sold
out and by and I and I don't. I want to.
I don't want to say it's 50,000. It was about.
It was. Close.
It was about 47,000, yeah. So it felt full and and to me
and you know that game and I'm sure you remember this the
Cincinnati game three years ago when we have the lead against
Cincinnati and it's a noon kickoff game and it's about 80°
and that game is sold out. I I just, I just for me when it
comes to just the overall thought process on Indiana
football and well fans don't support well.
I I don't believe that if you put a winning team out there
that stadium will sell out game in and game out and I think it
was proven that Cincinnati game and that's a whole another
podcast and why I forget the linebacker's name.
But when he got thrown out my God that was that was sad but so
I I was I was put in the the Penn State game ended up we
ended up being very very competitive.
And what made it so close was we were we were down I think 35 to
21 and we threw a Hail Mary and we completed it and we went for
two and there was no time left when we went for two and coach
Mallory had us go for two and the final score ended up being
35 to 29 where you know lowly Indiana takes #1 ranked Penn
State that's 35 to 29 And then and if you're in the national
media if you're just a fan you see that score you're like wow
maybe Penn State isn't that good.
Back then there weren't there wasn't as much coverage as there
is obviously now. And it that close game literally
dropped Penn State from #1 and Nebraska went to #1 and Penn
State went to #2. And they remained there for the
rest of year because Nebraska finished the year 12 and O.
Penn State finished year 12 and O.
But Nebraska was named national champion and Penn State was #2.
So they do blame that game and the fact that we had we were
kind of phantom Lee close to them with that Hail Mary.
They blame it on that. So it was, it was, it was funny
but and at the end of the day, it was still, you know, we were
sitting in the locker room like damn, you know, feel.
It feels like a win. It feels like we won.
The crowd made it feel like we won, but we still lost.
There's there's just something kind of wrong with that.
You know what I mean? It's just like what the
expectation obviously is to win. And maybe that was a moral
victory for us back then. And it did give us momentum and
then we and then I was named the starter that Monday.
Coach Mallard came out and said OK.
Chris is the starter. John Pacey not happy.
Not happy at all. And let it be known not only in
the locker room, but to Bob Hamill and to kind of anyone
that he could. And it it's it's it was it's
just it's really too bad because ironically, Trent Green was
benched for John Pacey late in his senior year.
John Pacey was benched for me late in his senior year and we
can get into it in the 96th season.
What happened to me? But that was that was that when
we went and played Ohio State, they came in just absolutely
loaded again. We hung with them for probably
3/4. I had a decent game and we, but
we ended up losing by a couple touchdowns and I actually had a
I hurt my MCL, had a like a second degree sprain in my MCL.
And then John came back and started the Purdue game, which
we won thankfully, and I I was obviously very, very happy for
him and he was able to go out and win, but we went six to
five, no bowl game. Yeah, and and then things got
pretty dark from there program wise so.
We have to talk about 9596. We don't have to, although I do.
I do have a kind of an overarching question on that,
which is I mean it was, it was jarring how quickly things fell
off in the last two years of of Bill Mallory's reign and you
know the 95. Tom Allen, I mean, kind of
similar to Tom Allen, which strangely it just was.
Yeah, I mean you know two and nine in in the in the 1995
season. Oh, and eight in the conference.
And really I mean you go back and look and not only were
basically none of the losses that competitive, you know maybe
the Illinois game at home, but even the wins were were tight
like they were the game against Southern Miss.
That was only a one point victory and you know a 14 point
win over Western Michigan like it.
So I'm I'm really curious to get your thoughts and and
reflections on this, like what was it about the team that kind
of changed there between that 94 and 95 seasons?
Well, I I think you know if you look at kind of as a whole the
two, if you take the 93 and 94 combined years and then you take
the 95 and 96 combined years, I don't think those, you know the
959394 teams had NFL guys, they had guys that had careers in the
NFL 9596, I don't, I don't think we had one.
I don't think there was a single one.
Eric Smedley was the only one, and he was a seventh round draft
pick. Right, right.
And you know, Eric Allen was a good player, played a little
bit. Eric Matthews was a wide
receiver that played a little bit.
I hung on a little bit but there was no significant career in the
NFL out of those two years. I think that was part of it.
I think you know I I just I I can't blame injuries.
I honestly I I just think we had a you know there are a couple.
There's one. There's one thing that I that I
will that I will mention that is is really hard to to say because
the the amount of love and respect that I have for Bill
Mallory is immense. And anybody that played for him
for four years or five years you know he he wasn't Bob Knight.
He wasn't that you know hard of a personality to get along with.
But they were, they were very similar in that they were old
school and they were very much expected you to go to class, to
do things the right way, to dress nicely, to take your hat
off when you're in a room, to look you in the eye when you
shake someone's hand. There were these were things
that coach Mallory preached to you and and obviously anyone
that goes through four or five years of a college football
career has their ups and downs with any of the coaches.
They're not there to be your friend.
And I had my ups and downs with coach Mallory, but at the end of
the day, man, I wish he was still around because I would
love to still have conversations with him.
And I had conversations with him up until the the months that he
passed. But I wish in 1993 or 9.
I'm sorry, 94. When Bill Lynch was offered the
head coaching job at Ball State, Coach Mallory would have said we
want you to be the offensive coordinator and I'm only going
to be here for another two or three years and we want you to
be the head coach. I wish that would have maybe
been some sort of succession plan because we had George
Belew, who was the offensive coordinator, Great guy.
But really if we ran or if we passed, Coach Mallory was really
making that decision. There were times where when I
wasn't playing and I was, you know, on the sidelines and John
was playing and Coach Blue would call a pass play and he called
in to John and Coach Brown would say no, no, run it, run it.
We got. We're going to run it twice
here, run it, we're going to run it here, We're going to, we'll
run the ball here. So there'll be times where Coach
Blue would want to throw it and Coach Mallory would overrule it.
There was also a time in the Southern, in the Southern
Mississippi game, we came out first drive of the game, we go
down and score. I called a couple different
audibles where I call a a play from a run to a pass.
We go down. It is was it was a long drive.
It was a combination. It was probably six runs and six
passes. I mean the passes were five or
six yards. I wasn't throwing it down the
field. It was just so we had a look
where they might have had eight guys in the box and I knew we
can't run into this because we only have six blockers, maybe 7
blockers. Well, I went to the sideline and
I'm thinking, man, this is a great drive.
We're up 7. Nothing start off the game.
This is awesome. Awesome.
Coach Mallard comes over to me and he's like, why are you
checking out those plays? I'm like, well, because we we
can't block them, Coach, they got too many guys in there.
He's like, no, no, we got 7 guys to block their eight.
Alex has to make one guy miss and I'm like, so we have to have
seven perfect blocks. Allen gets Alex Smith, gets
through the hole and then he's got to make a safety miss.
That's what he was thinking and and that that was just his
mentality. He thought we're going to line
up, we're going to be tougher than they are and we're going to
get 3 or 4 yards at least every carry because we're tougher than
they are. And and I think that caught up
to us a lot there in 95 and 96. We just we did not have the
manpower to continue on with that type of offense.
We were not overpowering any defense at that time.
Alex Smith was getting absolutely run to death and he,
Alex and I had many, you know, had many conversations about how
many carries he would have in a game.
And he set an NCAA record against Michigan State.
He had 23 carries in the first quarter against Michigan State,
which is insane. You know, running backs don't
get 23 carries in games anymore. You know, they they're lucky to
get in the high teens. So the philosophy of our offense
I think caught up to us a little bit.
We were trying to be a, you know, a full back tight end to
receiver offense and a lot of play action.
A lot of just hey here here's what we're going to do.
You know what we're doing, we know what we're doing and we're
just going to out execute you. And you know that combined with
the lack of really really high level players the guys that are
you know, future NFL guys was it was a combination and and two
and nine was was tough, particularly because Alex and I
were put on a freaking poster and I don't know if you have
seen that lately or remember that, but it was horrible and it
was us standing over Memorial Stadium and I think it says
something like rock the house and even my own son was like
that. I don't want that in my room.
What are you doing? Get this get this thing out of
here. I.
Think it's in buffaloes right now, but I'm not.
It might be, It might be, yeah, hopefully not.
But it might be in. And so I I vividly remember also
after the 95 season, going into 96, he's like, we don't want any
more bullshit. We don't want any more posters
of anyone. We just want to be, you know,
we're not air Ditto and running Alex Smith.
We're none of this stuff. And and so going into the 96
season, a real horrible turning point was, you know, we were
confident going into that year. We felt good.
We, our defense was really, really good that year.
Offensively, we weren't. We were we were absolutely
terrible. And we just.
I'm trying to think we played that first game in 1990.
Oh, we were at. Toledo We.
Were at Toledo, which was weird for a big 10 school to play at
Toledo, but that it was actually a great environment.
It sold out. They loved having us there,
obviously, and we went in out, we went in there and punched
them right in the mouth. And that was kind of the
beginning of. I knew they were questioning me
as the starter because I was on to my 4th quarterback coach, Kit
Cartwright. I remember going to the sideline
during the Toledo game, getting on the phone, talking to him and
him just reaming me for no particular reason, threatening.
We're going to put Jay Rogers, We're going to put Jay in.
If you don't, you're going to put Jay in.
And I'm just like whatever, dude.
I mean, I'm a fifth year guy. I'm.
I really, I want to do everything I can to help us win
games. I'm.
I'm big. Like I'm 6/6 at this time.
I'm probably 6/6 2:35. And I I can do one thing.
I can drop back and I can throw the ball.
I'm not going to outrun anybody. In fact, I'm sure you remember
Bill Banner. He coined one of the funniest
phrases that in one of his articles that has stuck with me
today. And every time I see Mr. Banner,
he apologizes to me, but it's pretty gosh darn hilarious.
And it was Chris Ditto could not escape the pass rush of an ice
glacier. And then he called me slow as an
ice Flo Ditto, which is. I mean, think about that.
This is the. This is the Indy star, by the
way, folks. This is not like, this is not
Twitter that we're talking about.
Yeah. This was this was written in The
Indianapolis Star. But anyway back you know 96.
We the turning point was when we went to Kentucky and it was only
our third game of the season, but we went to Kentucky and it
literally poured down rain that entire day and that entire
night. And playing against Kentucky
actually was one of the highlights of the of the
schedule, Kentucky and Purdue. And back then that was when we
played Kentucky every year. And that was a huge game for
Coach Mallory and it was a great rivalry and I wish we would
somehow bring that back. Not, you know obviously in
basketball, but in football that was a great rivalry for a non
conference power five game. Indiana's actually got a winning
record in that rivalry. It's like really, it's like, I
think it's a one game lead against Kentucky.
Yeah, so. That's great.
So let's let's. Not start it up again, Chris.
We got to leave it. Yeah, exactly.
Let's leave that what the way it is for sure.
So that the 96 season, I mean there's there's two things that
stick out that I can remember. One of them of course is Bill
Mallory getting fired in the middle of the year but still
coaching the remaining games of the season.
And there was that awful press conference with him in tears.
I mean that I, I recall this being I think late October may
have been, might have been after the Michigan game, but I mean it
clearly, I mean from what you're saying, I mean clearly kind of
the momentum of the program had gone and and recruiting, you
know, wasn't getting the types of players that were needed and
there was some antiquated offense.
But it just felt from outside like a really cruel way to to do
a guy who was as you said, the greatest coach in Indiana
football history. I mean, what was the perspective
on that like in the locker room? It was brutal.
I mean, it was, it was like, it was like a death in the family.
And you know, he was such a, you know, loyal, compassionate,
caring person, but he's also very, very stubborn.
And I think him the running, the type of offense that he wanted
to run, that I think he learned from Woody Hayes and he was
still wanted to can you continue when really the the rest of
college football at that time was evolving.
That was when, you know, I believe Danny Werfel was my,
that was in 1996 with Steve Spurger and they were throwing
the ball all over the place. And I think Michigan was you
know the Big 10 was trying to catch up in a lot of ways still
is trying to cut you up to the SEC.
But really we he wanted to continue doing what we were
always did and I think that ultimately caught up with him
and and I'm sure you remember Clarence Doniger and I remember
I know him very well and he was such a nice guy and I think the
pressure just really really amounted he didn't want to do
it. I know deep down he didn't want
to do it. I know he loved coach Mallory.
I know everyone in that other select department had so much
respect and admiration for coach Mallory.
Nobody wanted to do it But you know it's hard to it's hard to
look past to a nine in in three and eight.
But to do it the way that it was done was very unusual.
And I I just remember there he was like, they can fire me, but
I'm not leaving. They can fire me right now, but
I'm not leaving. They can do it now or they can
wait till the end of the year. And I think that I think the
university and the administration and whomever
really at the top was making the calls.
Like for for the fans sake, for momentum's sake, for whatever,
for the future, we need to let the public know now that we're
moving on. And I, you know, I don't know
what it accomplished. It was for the locker room.
It was terrible. It didn't it it was on our bye
week. So it was after the Penn State
game, first going back to the Michigan game and kind of what
happened with with my career and I had started.
I think Michigan game was maybe the sixth game of the year, 6th
or 7th game of the year. We're playing.
We're playing at Michigan, and I had been the starter for the
better part of 2 1/2 years, more or less.
And we we go. So, I mean, I'm.
I'm taking all the starter reps for the last 2 1/2 years
especially, I'm taking all the starter reps for the entire 1996
season. We are getting ready to go get
onto the bus and leaving the hotel to go to Michigan Stadium.
2 hours before kickoff. We're walking out of the
auditorium where Coach Mallard gives his final speech to the
team. I'm getting close to the door to
get to the bus, Coach Mallory yells.
Chris. Jay, Jay Rogers, come here, I
want to talk to you guys really fast.
We walk over there, we don't say a word.
He looks at both of us and he says, Jay, you're starting
today. Chris, you're the back up.
Get on the bus and we're both look at each other like what
just happened. And Jay, Jay and I were he was a
freshman. He was a red shirt freshman.
Jay and I were great friends. There was, you know, there was 0
animosity. I was not like John and Jay was
not like John. And you know the way John was
just kind of like I'm the man and I obviously when you start,
you've got to kind of have that persona.
But I still was more of a laid back quarterback, if you will.
And Jay, we get on the bus and I start telling guys around me
like my roommates and I'm like guys, I'm not starting today.
And they're all like, what? I'm like Jay's starting and
Jay's sitting right next to you. He's like, yeah, we have no idea
what just happened, but I'm starting and I don't really know
what's going on. And but we go to the game and
you know, I kind of take the the backup role again.
And I'm trying to help Jay as much as I can.
And we're highly competitive. Like we absolutely, almost win
that freaking game. Jay plays his ass off.
He plays great. Alex has a great game.
Our defense plays incredibly well.
My college roommate, which I had five and there were six of us,
and we still are incredibly close to this day, which is
something I'm so thankful for from my experience without you.
But Craig Goody, whose son plays shooting guard for Illinois,
which is another podcast, he should be playing shooting guard
for Indiana basketball but Archie Miller didn't want to
recruit him for some reason. But Craig Goody caught A1 yard
pass on Charles Woodson. Now it was supposed to be like a
12 yard hook. It ended up being a A1 yard hook
because he could not get off the ball and Charles Woodson's jam
was so good. But he caught a pass on Charles
Woodson that day and which is which is something we will we
laugh about all the time. But that game was competitive.
And then we go to Penn State and again we're we're somewhat
competitive for you know typically Indiana football 2
1/2, three quarters and then Penn State takes over and we
lose by several scores then we and then they with that's our
bye week and they make this announcement.
And like we talked about it was just an incredibly sad situation
that I, you know several of us went to the press conference and
we're standing there just like is this are they really doing
this right now like we get it we're not playing well but do
you have to basically kick us while we're down.
And we, you know, we understand that probably something's going
to happen at the end of the year, but can you just let him
but, and they they make it sound like, you know, we're going to
let him finish the end of the season.
But this is it. And we're like, well, how does
that help this situation at all? I mean and you were time
following college football. Have you ever seen a coach get
fired and then remain and coach out to the rest?
Here obviously there's usually an interim coach put in place.
It's I I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it
and it's always kind of a peculiar situation.
And it just it it just looked, it looked weird from the
outside. And it doesn't surprise me that
that was the perception from the inside.
I mean it's. Oh yeah.
Yeah, it was tough. There there were actually two
more moments from that season now that I think about it.
So the Ohio State game, which is 2 games later, Ohio State wins
that game and that was the game that their fans rush the field,
tear down one of the goal posts, and then you guys end up
surrounding the other goal post to keep them from tearing that
one down. Yes, yeah, that was, that was
terrible and just, you know, another long line of experiences
that in my life I've just learned from, you know, and and
like, it's it was a tough thing to endure.
But even going back to the Michigan State game, you know,
kind of the first game out of coach Mallory being a lame duck
coach, like we could not have been, we could not have played
worse in that game. We were, it was, it was just, we
were everyone still had the hangover from that press
conference and it was just a sad football game.
And then somehow we go to the Ohio State game where if they
win, they clinch and they go to the Rose Bowl.
And my God, I mean, we had an opportunity to win that game.
We were, I believe we were winning late into the third
quarter, maybe even early in the fourth quarter.
And then Matt Finkus stripped Jay Rogers and ran it back for a
touchdown. And that was kind of all she
wrote. And yeah, they're freaking fans
were along that fence line on the South end of the end zone.
And as soon as that game ended, they got that goal post.
And then fights erupted and it got pretty heated down there.
And I mean, the locker room was a mess after that game because
we realized, Oh my gosh, their fans came and tore down one of
our goal posts. I mean, it was from
embarrassment to shame to anger to this is the last game for the
seniors will ever play Memorial Stadium and Ohio State fans tore
down our goal posts. Their players are running around
with roses in their mouths and and you know as a senior that
that was all the things that we dreamed of.
You know, those were all of the moments, you know when you come.
When we came in as freshmen and back then we were a very highly
touted class and to be the class that ultimately was somewhat
responsible for getting Bill Mallory fired, it sucks.
And it's something that it's a responsibility that I think
about. And those moments, like the Ohio
State game, also brutal because of.
I mean, there were helmets flying.
There was shit being tossed in our life.
It was a very, very heated and emotional locker room because we
also knew it was Coach Mallory's last home game as the head coach
at Indiana. And it was it.
That was probably one of the worst days, maybe of my career
there. Just as a whole, when you
combine everything that happened and and and Ohio State fans are
relentless, they don't care. They just they're they felt like
it was their field. They felt like they had every
right to do what they did. And luckily we got enough guys
to get to the other goal post before.
They couldn't get it, 'cause they were going after that one
too, right? They were freaking going after
that one. But as bad as that Saturday was,
yeah. I was going to say I mean and I
was at the the next Saturday game and you know the it's
Mallory's last game. You know Purdue, Purdue.
It was in an interesting spot at that point too because Jim
Coletto was the head coach and they that had never really
launched for them. But I think everybody expected
that Purdue was going to win that game and then you know you
guys came in and were just pretty dominant throughout.
Like I I remember sitting in the stands I I was a senior in high
school I was I was going to go to IU starting the next year.
I was with a friend of mine who was also an IU fan and I
remember like midway through the the second quarter I was like
this is great let's let's keep doing this and it ended up
running all the way to the end with with Mallory getting
carried off on you guys's shoulders.
It was a really cool thing to. See.
Yeah, that. It gives me chills thinking
about it and talking about it to this day.
And that was that was such an emotional week really for
everyone involved, especially the seniors and that coaching
staff who knew that they had coached together for so long.
You know, some of them going back with Coach Mallory to
Colorado days and then the Northern, I mean Northern
Illinois and then Indiana. I mean, we're talking over 20
years of a staff being together, which is unheard of this day and
age to have that continuity. But I still going into that
Monday, I was not the starter. Jay was going to start that game
and I went into Coach Mallory's office at like, I don't know,
6:30 AM Monday morning because I've been talking with my
roommates and my dad on that Sunday.
Like, I mean, I got to start. I I got to do whatever I can to
start this game. I don't.
I mean, what if I have to beg Coach Mallory If I have to, I I
don't know what it is going to take, what I need to do, but I
need to start this game. So I went in, set a meeting with
him, sat down and just said, hey coach, you know, understand
Jay's the starter right now, but this is my senior year.
This is my last opportunity to play.
Can I start this game? And he looked right at me and he
said no, we're going with Jay. So you need to keep doing what
you're doing, be the backup and have a good week of practice.
So I leave there and it's like 6:30 Monday morning.
I don't even know if I go to class that day.
I'm kind of devastated. I go home and I tell him, my
guys, I'm like, Nope. He said no, this is not
happening. They're like, well, sorry, man,
but we got to, we got to try and win this game.
I'm like, yeah, we do. I get to practice that night and
Coach Mallory calls me back into his office and he's like Chris,
coaches met all day today. We talked about what to do with
you and Jay and we decided that you're going to start.
And I was like Oh my God, you know I I started crying.
I was like, you know, I I get you know we had a pretty hard we
just had a hard part conversation at that time where
obviously my career didn't go the way I envisioned it his you
know coach around. I ever had some incredible all
time moments for Indiana football during his career
there, but it definitely didn't end the way he envisioned
either. But I think we were at that time
we could. I left his office and we were
together at that like we. That was one of the closest
moments that I ever had with him because we only wanted one thing
and that was just a win. Like I didn't care how we did
it. He didn't.
He never cared how he did it and I Purdue at that time, yeah,
they were better. They had a better record than
us. I think they had just beaten
Michigan ironically. I was really good friends with
their quarterback Rick Tresker. So I I communicated with him
that week and was like I'm I'm starting and he was a senior too
and had an absolutely up and down career as well.
So we were like man, this is it. Let's just see what happens and
like you said, I mean, but there was so much pressure on us
because we could not live with ourselves if coach Mallory went
out with a loss to Purdue given what just had happened with
against Ohio State and it it the game fortunately, yeah, like you
mentioned, we just came out on fire.
Our running game was clicking. I think Alex rushed for over 200
yards. I, you know, we completed some
passes. Nothing exciting, but I didn't
turn the ball over, so I was happy about that.
We had a, you know, Nathan Davis, who actually was one of
our NFL guys, blocked the punt, showed incredible athleticism.
He was like 6629. He blocked the punt, ran it like
50 yards back for a touchdown. We gained momentum and and
really never lost it and fortunately ran away with a
fairly easy victory which we thought it was going to be
tough. But I just to me that was like
the football gods were shining down upon us because they knew
as much as Coach Malley had given to that program that there
was no way that they were going to allow him to leave his and
his career with a loss to Purdue.
As much as that game meant to meant to him and that and I and
like you mentioned the you know when you I think, I feel like
when you've talked to guys that play college football obviously
winning at home is great but winning on the road is, is is
for some reason so much better because the people that are
there are the true like they are the fans.
And I, you know, I, my family, all of our families were in that
corner of the end zone and all that.
Maybe 1000, maybe 2000. But those were the ones that
really cared about Coach Mallory, that really cared about
the program, that really cared about US winning.
And I felt like it felt like we were going to tell there were
mentions from us, like, let's get their goal.
Posts. Let's get their goal posts.
Obviously that that wasn't really serious, but that did
cross our minds and you know, my mom and dad were.
I've got a great picture with my dad on the field after that
game. I've got a great picture with my
girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife of 26 years, had a
great picture with her down on the on that field after that
game. And I mean, the locker room was
ecstatic. I mean, it was literally like we
had won the Rose Bowl bus ride home.
We were smoking cigars, drinking beers with the coaches because
they were done. They didn't care.
Seniors, we were done. We didn't care.
We were just one number, one very, very relieved.
But #2, to go out your senior year meeting Purdue at Purdue is
about as special as it gets, despite the career in the in the
five years that I experienced. So I feel very fortunate to to
have an end that way and that night was incredible.
Also we had, you know, as I mentioned, I lived with five
other guys and all of our families were so incredibly
close. We rented out a room in the
Union. We had a big party.
We're probably all of all of our siblings, all of our parents,
grandparents. We were all every like.
It was such a unique day. At night.
Everyone got up and spoke about what the last five years meant
to us. Our parents did, our siblings
did. I mean it was it was tight and
I'll never forget it. And I feel so lucky to have been
to have gone three in one versus Purdue in my career that I that
I played. So I don't really count that
first one where Trent helicoptered the guy since I was
red shirt, yeah. You weren't officially, you
weren't officially, you know, on the depth chart for that one.
I think you could, you could put that one to the side, right.
Well, a couple of other questions.
This has been great. I mean, first of all, catch the
people up on what you've been up to since your time at IU.
Yeah. So it's hard to believe that
it's, well, 90, it's been almost 30 years and goes by so fast as
you know, I'm sure you're you're thinking the same thing.
Keenly aware of it being here, you know, as a as a professor.
Now it's a It's a unique experience.
Yes, yeah, very much so. Well, after Andy, after I
graduated, I will. I did.
I signed with the Detroit Lions free agent contract.
I was with them for about 2 1/2 years kind of off and on, and I
was able to be on their active roster for four games.
So I count that as a win even though it was 2 training camps
and was brought back. I was cut at the end of training
camp for two years but brought back at the end of the 1998
season when Charlie Batch got hurt.
They brought me in and as the third quarterback when Scott
Mitchell was the starter and Frank Reich was the backup.
That and then my career ended with Detroit.
They didn't resign me, no one else resigned me.
So it's time for me to get a job.
My wife, who was a journalism major at IU, was working for a
pretty large public relations firm out of Chicago.
And she opened an office in Indianapolis and was basically
running that sector of the business for her boss in
Chicago, who had offices in LA and New York and San Francisco
and now Indianapolis. And she had hired six or seven
people, basically just operating a business.
So I was a sales guy. I knew I was going to be a sales
guy. I was, I was going to go into
that. But we kind of took my
brother-in-law came to us with the idea of, hey, let's, we'll
start a business. You know, Eliza's got the
experience of journalism, of PR, which she was incredible at.
My brother-in-law and I had the sales experience, so we did.
And we've been running. Ditto public relations for we'll
actually have our 25th anniversary coming up in
September and we we our our bread and butter is getting our
clients names in the the headlines and newspapers,
magazines, television radio across the country.
We have three kids and we, you know we got married young and
Mary was 23. Our kids are now 2321 and 20 as
I think I mentioned, but two one is in grad school at IU, one's a
senior at college at Charleston and in South Carolina.
And then I've got a son who's a freshman at IU.
So unfortunately or fortunately for our 20 year old son, he is a
die hard Indiana sports fan, both football and basketball.
He was actually at the Iowa game sitting pretty closely on
Tuesday night. What a game that was and what a
moment for Anthony Leal. But I've I've lived in Indiana
also our our offices in broader pool, lived in Indianapolis for
the last 25 plus years and and loving it and go to have season
tickets for IU football and go to pretty much every game every
year. And when I meet a a person who
says they are a long time IU fan, IU football fan, I'm
shocked. But I love it too, because it
doesn't happen very often. No, I I can, I can verify that
from my own perspective. It's it's it's a rare bird you
meet in the wild that's an IU football fan for more than maybe
a a decade or so. Well, let me finish with this
then. Obviously a lot of upheaval with
IU football over the course of the last few months.
Indiana goes out and hires Kurt Cignetti.
I don't know what your perspectives on it been so far
and I'm curious about it. I mean, the energy just feels
different right now around the football program than it has in
a while. It does And I, you know, I first
of all I loved Tom Allen. You know, he reminded me in a
lot of ways of Coach Mallory. He loved, you know, everybody
knows how much Tom Allen loved Indiana football and and loves
the state of Indiana in general. So and in the run that he had
obviously shocked everybody and I think there were some
circumstances that why that happened whether it was COVID or
whether it was Michael Pennix or whether it was take Ramsey or
you know if you think about Kevin Wilson years and the
talent and the NFL talent that he brought on that bleeded over
to Tom Allen's years somewhat. But obviously the last two years
they can't happen and and unfortunately I think coach
Allen would admit that you got to make a move.
So they they did. And and what coach Signetti has
done has been unbelievable. The momentum just, I don't know,
the brashness, this first introduction where he said
Purdue sucks, Michigan sucks. I mean, I'm just like, whoa,
this does not happen. Like what?
Indiana football doesn't talk like this.
Like what? What are we doing?
But why not? Like, we literally have nothing
to lose. So I I just hope it's backed up.
You know, it's one thing to talk like this and be very, very
confident, and he has a right to be.
He's won everywhere he's been. But as you and I know, Indiana
football is a whole different animal and winning Indiana has
proven to be nearly impossible over a consistent amount of
years. Especially now that it's 18
teams and you're adding Washington, Oregon, USCUCLAUSC,
it's going to make it even more challenging.
So I'm off. I'm, I guess overall I'm
optimistic. I'm I'm not.
I'm not. I'm going to be there next fall.
I can't wait. And I just hope the momentum and
you know, and the bravado that Coach Signetti has carries over
to wins. That's all we want.
That's the thing. It's I think you I've, I've
struggled with this a lot as a long time IU football fan.
You need to have something to believe in as an IU football
fan, and I think that's been the greatest accomplishment so far,
is that for those of us who want to believe it's there, it's the
results that are always the tricky part and it's the
consistency of the results and that is still to be determined.
But I gotta say I like the approach.
It's different, as you said, from what you're used to seeing
and maybe some bravado is necessary to get players to buy
into something that isn't physically there yet, but is is
something that can be there eventually.
Right, right. And then you know, when you
combine that and you think about all the challenges that coaches
have now with NIL and the transfer portal, to me it feels
almost like an impossible job. And I don't care if you're
Indiana or Alabama or Michigan, the thought of having to end
your season, whether it's in November or December or January,
and then turn around and recruit your own team that's already on
your roster or else they're going to go and enter the
transfer portal. I mean, I'm sure you've talked
about and thought about this cannot sustain, sustain itself.
There's going to have to be some sort of limitations or changes
or or whatever. And I think I saw somebody write
an article recently about, imagine if a quarterback in the
NFL, Patrick Mahomes at the end of every year was able to just
say, oh, now I'm, I'm entering the portal.
I don't want to play for the Chiefs anymore.
I'm going to go play for the OR I'm going to go play for whoever
is the highest bidder. They don't, you know, they.
It's just not feasible. It's not.
There's a reason why there's contracts in the NFL, so that
can't happen. Then these teams protect
themselves somehow. There has to be some level of
protection down for all of these schools and it needs to happen.
There's there's you can't have where things are at right now
without treating it differently than it's been treated college
football by the schools in charge and there's a mere that's
as you've mentioned a couple of times that's another podcast
because that takes a long time to get into because it's
complicated and and I think for even people that have been
involved in football at the college level, you know as
players or as coaches it's a hard thing to get your head
wrapped around because so much of it is caught up in
administrators and television contracts and this perspective
of well, we're not really a professional sport but.
If you actually look at all of the things that we do, we are a
professional sport, but we're not operating with contracts.
It's why there's so much chaos and so hopefully at some point,
the powers that be realized that, and until then, if you're
a head coach trying to navigate these waters, it's it's fraught
because you just never know what to expect on a day-to-day basis.
Right, right. And another podcast would be
What's going to happen in Michigan and what the the well.
That I mean even I mean there was a story today like Chip
Kelly may go to the commanders to be their offensive
coordinator. I actually kind of like how all
these changes are adding up in favor of IUI mean you know
Michigan loses their head coach, Washington loses their head
coach, UCLA may lose their head coach.
It is a wild landscape right now and should be a really
fascinating season for IU football. 8 home games coming up
this year and some winnable Rd. games too.
It's it's it's going to be really interesting to see how
quickly the rubber hits the road with this new team.
You gonna go out to UCLA? I'm planning on it at this
point, and I think I've heard from like 50 other IU fans who
are saying that they're gonna be there.
Are you planning on it? I am, for sure.
That's great. I mean, I mean, when did I?
I I've always said in my lifetime I'd love to see how you
play in the Rose Bowl. Here's an opportunity.
Now it's not the actual Rose Bowl in January, but that would
be an incredible experience and depending on what we bring to
the table, possibly winnable game.
I mean UCLA has struggled over the years and I think they just
lost their quarterbacks. So you never know what can
happen and like I'm very, very optimistic for for this fall and
it's going to be very interesting.
I'm I'm actually real curious to see how spring ball plays out
too. That's going to be and huge,
hugely important. And excited.
Excited to see a spring game back.
Yeah, like, wow. And maybe and and maybe name a
starting quarterback immediately after spring practice ends that
was. Awesome.
Get out of here with that left. Can't happen?
No? Well, we'll look forward to
seeing you hopefully at the spring game and at home games
this upcoming season. Chris, I really appreciate you
taking the time to join us on the show.
This was enlightening. I greatly enjoyed it and you
know, best of luck with you moving forward and we really
appreciate you sharing your memories of of being in an
Indiana uniform. Well, I I really appreciate the
opportunity. Love Indiana football.
Love Bloomington. Love Indiana University,
everything it stands for. Love falling.
You're listening to your podcast, really enjoy what you
and Scott do and yeah, look forward to to listening more and
hopefully we're when we get to November, we're talking about a
who knows six or seven one team. At a minimum, Absolutely.
Exactly. All right, Chris Ditto, former
IU starting quarterback for the Hoosiers.
Thank you again for joining us here on the show.
Thank. You.
And our thanks once again to Chris Ditto, former Indiana
starting quarterback and a member of that middle period of
the 1990s in IU football. Some really great insights,
really enjoyed talking to Chris and hearing his perspective on
his time here at Indiana. So we hope to have more of these
types of interviews in the future.
And we've got football coverage coming up in not too terribly
long. Of course, spring practice going
to get started relatively soon and then it'll all culminate in
the spring game, the first spring game that Indiana's had
in a while. Looking forward to that
Thursday, the 18th of April. So lots of fun things and lots
of optimism around the football program.
We're certainly very excited about that, and it's great to be
able to go back and look at different areas of IU football
and get a sense of how things have been and how it all adds up
to where we may end up going eventually.
All right, that'll wrap things up here on this edition of
Crimson Cast. I'm Galen Clavio.
Be sure to tune in later on this week.
We'll have more content across the board in IU athletics.
Come in your direction. We'll catch you folks.
On the flip side, Bring back the Bison song, everybody.