1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,880 You're listening to the Back Home Network presented by Home 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:20,320 Field Apparel. Welcome back to Crimson Casts, 3 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:21,400 folks. GAIL and Clavier. 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:27,520 Here it is, Friday, February 23rd of the year 2024. 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,160 It's good to have you back here listening to us on the show. 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,360 Great night last night for IU Women's basketball. 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,120 They absolutely slaughtered the Iowa Hawkeyes in Assembly Hall. 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,680 A sold out crowd and the vast, vast majority of those people 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,440 were there to watch IU women's basketball. 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,160 Not Caitlin Clark alone, although Caitlin Clark was a 11 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:52,200 great addition, but are you really answering the critics who 12 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,000 had shoveled dirt on their season just a couple of days ago 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,280 after that loss in Illinois? It's a wild big 10 so far this 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,240 year on the women's side, but Congrats to the ladies as that 15 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:09,880 was a an absolute domination by them and Congrats to Sarah 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,320 Scalia and to Mackenzie Holmes and Sydney Parish back off the 17 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,240 bench, get some big threes. So really exciting game all the 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,920 way around and glad everybody got a chance to to check that 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,960 out. We've got Tony Andrania joining 20 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,360 us on the show today. Tony, good to see you. 21 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,160 We don't do this often enough so it's great to to have you on the 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,160 show. How you doing today? 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,440 I'm fantastic. It's always a pleasure to be 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:39,160 back here on on Crimson Cast. Goes back a long time, my first 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,360 first time being on the show. I remember I think it was like 26 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,520 2011 I think was the first time you were on the show which yeah 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,920 that we're we're really that was actually very close to back when 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,880 IU men's basketball was this bad we're. 29 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,480 A little better than. Slightly, yes. 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,520 We wanted to bring Tony on. We actually planned on doing 31 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,560 this podcast after the Northwestern game and and we 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,440 couldn't for a variety of reasons and it's even more 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,560 prescient now that we have Tony on I think after the Nebraska 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,600 game. So we're going to talk a little 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,080 bit about where IU men's basketball is AT and and what 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,200 the heck's going on and and whether or not this is a 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,200 recoverable tailspin at this point for Indiana. 38 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,800 But before we get to that, just a reminder folks, we are brought 39 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,680 to you by the Back Home network. You've if you're listening to 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,760 Crimson cast, you're aware of the back Home network. 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,240 It's not just the podcast, it's also Tony's IU Film Room series, 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,240 which has been awesome, really great insights and breakdowns 43 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,120 into what I use doing out on the floor. 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,240 So much great stuff at the Back Home network. 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,760 You should check it out. We are all brought to you by 46 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,040 home field apparel, the presenting sponsor of the back 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,000 home network, Home field apparel. 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Just absolutely going nuts with things right now. 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,760 They've had a new IU drop, they've had a new Purdue drop, 50 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,600 but we won't talk about that. They dropped some Ohio State and 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,400 Michigan stuff. They're into racing now. 52 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,360 They've got, they had, they had a a Hendrick Motorsports drop 53 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,560 and just shockingly after that, Hendrick Motorsports won the 54 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,000 Daytona 500. They've got some Indy 500 stuff 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,120 coming up here soon some little 500 stuff. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,880 So head over to home field apparel.com use the code home 57 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,720 23, get 15% off your first order. 58 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,680 Follow them on the socials folks they're great on Instagram 59 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,560 they're great on X they're they're they're all over the 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,160 place so. So check out home field 61 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,680 apparel.com proud sponsor of the back home network. 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Also reminder subscribe to the sub stack we've got one it's 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,800 free. You get podcasts delivered right 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,520 to your e-mail and assembly calls got one as well. 65 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,880 Tony, do you have a sub stack yet? 66 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,560 We need to get you on a sub stack I think. 67 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,280 It's I'm part of assembly call. There it is. 68 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,720 See, See, Tony could have been part of the Crimson Cast sub 69 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,960 stack, but he big time this and he decided to go to the the the 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,120 Assembly. Call one instead. 71 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,200 I get it, I get it. They're more popular than we 72 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,320 are. But no, subscribe. 73 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,320 It's free, you get all of the podcasts delivered right to your 74 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,360 door, and there's a paid option, mild amount of money. 75 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,840 If you want some extra insights, we're happy to give those as 76 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,959 well. $5 a month crimsoncast.substack.com is the 77 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:19,399 address. Anyway, let's get going. 78 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Tony, you you've been making some waves lately, which has 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,480 been good. You had a video up yesterday 80 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,800 which was really nice. I think distillation of what I 81 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:37,640 would call the the bloodless but accurate evaluation of what's 82 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,360 gone wrong with Indiana men's basketball over the course of 83 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,760 the last year. This is, it's become an 84 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,320 interesting thing because Indiana right now stands at 6:00 85 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,160 and 9:00 in the conference. They're 14 and 12 on the season, 86 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,920 and it just kind of feels like the season. 87 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,680 It isn't just like kind of adrift, like it's act actively 88 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,360 gone downhill, especially here over the last three weeks. 89 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,040 Really. Yeah, there was a lot of 90 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,880 optimism coming out of that Iowa game. 91 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,200 It's like, OK, they they struggled with that three-game 92 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,960 sequence of Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois. 93 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,880 I think everybody kind of was hoping that maybe a win would 94 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,480 come out of that sequence, but it didn't. 95 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,720 They come back, they almost blow the Iowa game, but they end up 96 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,160 winning it. It's like, all right, maybe, 97 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,800 maybe things stabilize. Then they have an embarrassing 98 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,080 loss to Penn State. They nearly lose to an 99 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,440 absolutely catatonic Ohio State program, and now they've lost 100 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,600 three games in a row at home, including home losses that they 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,440 absolutely could not afford to Northwestern and Nebraska. 102 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,600 There's been a lot of controversy about Mike Woodson, 103 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,080 like what should be the perspective, How should we feel 104 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,000 about this? But I think as you really 105 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,000 accurately pointed out in your video, and if you haven't seen 106 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,160 the video folks go to Twitter, check out Tony's Twitter account 107 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,120 because it's it's there. It's about 6 minutes long. 108 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,600 It's worth watching. This is not personal. 109 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:02,080 This is really like it's a business thing but the business 110 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,280 is bad right now and IU basketball just absolutely 111 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,640 doesn't look like itself. And and Tony, I've thought about 112 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,960 this and kind of going back to when the, you know, when we had 113 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,120 you first on the pod, it's been almost 15 years since I can 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:21,600 recall the the basketball product on the court looking as 115 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,160 disconnected from good basketball as it is right now. 116 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,520 And I don't know. I mean, you're when you watch 117 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,200 this, I mean, how do you reconcile this in your head or 118 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,520 is there a way to reconcile it in your head other than just 119 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,560 man, mistakes were made and mistakes keep getting made. 120 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,680 More of the latter, unfortunately, yeah. 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,080 It's it's really been just a hard to watch because they I 122 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:50,120 I've gone back to this in a few different times when I'm spoken 123 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,240 about the Indiana basketball team. 124 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,640 But there's just not an identity. 125 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,200 So like any given night, you don't know what they're going to 126 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,480 hang their hat on. Like, if there's any identity 127 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,600 about IU basketball, unfortunately right now it's 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,600 negative. It's like they're going to dig 129 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,600 themselves, you know, big holes. They're not going to play hard 130 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,560 for 40 minutes. They're going to turn the ball 131 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,280 over at alarming rates. Like, you know, it's like those 132 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,000 are are more of their identities than anything else. 133 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,000 And that's that's where the alarm bells ring. 134 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,080 Because it's not like, like I mentioned in my video yesterday, 135 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,240 the the offense is really bad and you can make excuses for 136 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,960 whatever that case may be. But, like, the defense is just 137 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,760 as bad. So there's not even like the 138 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,760 identity of the defense, which is really, you know, a lot of 139 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,080 folks talk about like Xavier Johnson carried the team in the 140 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,840 tournament, Mike Woodson's first year with his play in the Big 10 141 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,440 tournament, and that that is 100% true. 142 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,120 But what the foundation that was laid for them to be able to make 143 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,360 that run was actually defense. Like that was Mike Woodson's 144 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,640 best team on defense. Far and away I think Ken Palm, 145 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,640 they were like 24th in in defensive efficiency. 146 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,400 So like they hung their hat on that. 147 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,760 They were pretty good on the defensive end. 148 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Well, this year they're 102nd defense, so like they don't have 149 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,040 even identity on the defensive end. 150 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,720 So when I watch it it's just like the offense is bad, the 151 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,800 defense is bad. There's there's nothing that's 152 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,360 consistently good and and that's why they're outside the kid palm 153 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,600 top 100 right now is is there isn't anything that's 154 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,600 consistently good and that's that's frustrating and it's it's 155 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,880 very alarming moving forward as well. 156 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,800 I think, I mean, I was in the crowd for the Northwestern game 157 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,680 and I wasn't in the crowd for the Nebraska game. 158 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,720 I I went and and watched that with some friends. 159 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,559 But both of those games, the Purdue game, the Penn State 160 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,039 game, most of the Ohio State game, I I really did try to sit 161 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:45,360 there and think to myself why like why is this not working? 162 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,080 And there's a bunch of reasons and and you highlighted several 163 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,000 of them in your video. But when I watch this team, the 164 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,720 the thing that resonates with me more than anything else is like 165 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,000 there are obviously really talented basketball players on 166 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,080 this team and they make individually talented plays, but 167 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,960 there is very little cohesion and unity among this team. 168 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,760 They do not play as a unit and I don't really blame the players 169 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,480 for that. It it it does not appear that 170 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,560 there is much of AA blueprint for them to operate within. 171 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,000 Am I off base when I say that or does that seem like a a core 172 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,880 issue for you? It's absolutely a core issue and 173 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,320 to me it's just like the players, their strengths aren't 174 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,760 being maximized. You know, it's it's instead of 175 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,120 taking the players and building a system, it's taking the system 176 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,960 and trying to build the players. And as a head coach that's 177 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,120 that's great and all. If you have a a plan and an 178 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,440 identity you're trying to recruit to but that that doesn't 179 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,120 just that isn't how Mike Woodson has operated. 180 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,320 You know it's not like he's trying to get certain types of 181 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,160 players to fit into some certain type of system. 182 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,000 He's just gone out and tried to acquire talent and then hey I'm 183 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,000 going to make them fit my system my mold. 184 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,720 Well that doesn't work very well as we're seeing. 185 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,320 So I think you're 100% right that you know they're just 186 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,560 there's no plan to maximize the strengths of what this roster 187 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:12,440 can do on both ends. You know, I I think Indiana 188 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,920 could get up on the defensive end and and pressure a little 189 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,560 bit more with some of the length and athleticism that they've 190 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,880 got. Defense or offensively, Nicole 191 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,920 Aware is an extreme lob threat, but you know they don't. 192 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,480 They don't have him run a lot of ball screen actions or what 193 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,320 people would call the Spain pick and roll where he's getting a 194 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,280 back screen after he sets the ball screen. 195 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,480 Like there's just not a lot of things that maximize strengths. 196 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,080 You know, with Gabe Cubs, he's he's actually a pretty Dang good 197 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,480 spot up shooter believe it or not. 198 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,200 He's shooting over 40% from spot up threes this season. 199 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,160 But you know he's not really a guy that's going to turn the 200 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,840 corner on the ball screen and get to the cup. 201 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,520 But when he's in the game, you know they've got him trying to 202 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,680 turn the corner on ball screens. Like that's just not his game 203 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,640 And then people get frustrated. You're like what's he even out 204 00:10:58,640 --> 00:10:59,960 there for? You know, he doesn't even look 205 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,280 to score, look to shoot well, his strengths are being 206 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,680 maximized. So that that to me is, is a 207 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:10,200 large issue is that Mike Woodson has a system that he wants to 208 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,800 run and he wants to play. And it's very clear now what 209 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,200 that is. And you know, it was kind of 210 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,840 thought all right, he had Trace Jackson Davis, one of the top 211 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,440 two players in the country last season. 212 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,360 Like it makes sense to feed him the ball in the post and let him 213 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,160 operate as inefficient as post basketball. 214 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,560 May be that that you know that optimized Indiana's offensive 215 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,720 basketball. Now they don't have a top two 216 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,520 offensive player in the country. You know I would say Malik Renew 217 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,840 is maybe top 100 player in the country. 218 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,920 I don't know I I could be off base on that. 219 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,600 But you know Malik Renew is a good player but he's not trace 220 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,160 Jackson Davis. But they run the exact same 221 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,960 system for him. So if you're going to run the 222 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,040 exact same system for a guy but he's nowhere near the level of 223 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,880 player, well, what results are you expecting? 224 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Were you expecting the same results with a different type of 225 00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:58,720 player? Like? 226 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,160 To me that's that's where a large issue lies right now. 227 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,160 Yeah, it's I think, you know the the toughest thing for me the 228 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,080 whole season. And I mean, I was, I was banging 229 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,080 on about this early when people were just complaining about the 230 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,200 offense looking junky, which it did and and still does. 231 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:21,120 But I think the thing that's fascinating to me is this team, 232 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,200 just it it, it has lacked intensity from the very 233 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,680 beginning of the season. And and you know, you mentioned 234 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,600 like those close calls against Army against Wright State. 235 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,480 We saw it in the Kennesaw State game, We saw it in the Morehead 236 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,400 state game. And then, you know, the chickens 237 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,240 have kind of come home to roost on that because you know, if 238 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,360 you're struggling with intensity against lower tier competition, 239 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,560 you're probably going to struggle with intensity against 240 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:50,960 upper tier competition. And it just, it feels like this 241 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,400 team is not, they're not like, they don't, they're not like 242 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,040 Louisville, like they don't suck all the time, but they're really 243 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,680 only good for about 110 to 12 minute stretch every game. 244 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,720 And then when things start, sometimes, a lot of times that's 245 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,240 at the beginning of the game and then that gets disrupted by the 246 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,160 substitution patterns. But it's I think we've almost 247 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,240 blamed the substitution patterns too much and we haven't blamed 248 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,440 the reality that this team is just mentally and emotionally 249 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,640 very fragile and when stuff starts to not go their way, they 250 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,160 cannot get over it. You know, I think about like the 251 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,760 so the women's game last night is an interesting contrast. 252 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,760 You know Indiana builds a 17 point lead. 253 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,800 They have a couple of shots that don't go in Iowa goes on like a 254 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,120 nine nothing run and cuts the lead, I think to seven. 255 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,800 And then you know there's a time out, they come back out. 256 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,000 Sydney Parish, it's a 3. Sydney Parish, it's another 257 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,920 three and it's like they're back and suddenly that intensity is 258 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,880 is reinvested. That is absolutely lacking in 259 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,480 this men's basketball team right now for IU. 260 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,920 They just, they they take a punch and in most cases cannot 261 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,040 get back up off the mat. I mean, the one time we really 262 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:02,800 saw them do it was that Ohio State game. 263 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,680 But you almost have to put a big asterisk next to that because 264 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,680 Ohio State is probably the one team in the conference that's 265 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:11,480 worse at taking a punch than Indiana is. 266 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,400 Where does where do you think that comes from? 267 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,760 Like this idea? We've heard Mike Woodson blame 268 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,480 injuries. We've heard him blame youth, but 269 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,600 we've seen injured teams and we've seen young teams in 270 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,440 Indiana uniforms before be able to have a level of resilience 271 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,520 that this team just fundamentally does not seem to 272 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,840 have. Like what is your analysis of 273 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,080 why that is the case? Yeah, I think you take on the 274 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,320 identity of your your leadership and and you know I'm not saying 275 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,280 that's 100% Mike Woodson. I think the leadership, I mean 276 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,600 your your staff, your captains, all of those things. 277 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,320 You know, I I think it's fairly clear Mike Witch and since 278 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,480 coaching style is more laid back you know you don't really see 279 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,680 him really coming unglued too often. 280 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,640 And so, like, I I do think that as a player it's your 281 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,160 responsibility to get yourself fired up more than anything. 282 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,200 But like it does help when your coach kind of rah rahs you a 283 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,520 little bit before the game or whatever the case may be. 284 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,200 So I I think that. But then you look at all right, 285 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,560 who are the leaders on this team And it's not even necessarily 286 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,160 who's the captains, but it's like who's leading the charge. 287 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,000 You know it's Malik Renew and Kalauair more times than not. 288 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,360 Well, those are two fairly emotionless guys that that 289 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,880 aren't guys that are are pumping you up and and really getting 290 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,040 you going. So it's like that those things 291 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,680 are kind of working against you when your your leadership is 292 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:42,280 also more of a a laid back kind of, I don't know the right, the 293 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,840 right word to put it. So like it's because when you 294 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,440 look out at the Ohio State game as a great example, I would say 295 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,560 the leader on the floor at that point was Anthony Weil and he 296 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,640 was cuddling guys up. He was ramped up at one point. 297 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,040 He says you can read his lips. He says we're going to win this 298 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,480 F in game and he's got the guys in a huddle like and they took 299 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,160 on his his identity and his leadership and they and they 300 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,080 came back. And so it's like the leadership 301 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,440 aspect both on the bench and on the floor carries over to the 302 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,680 identity of the team. And so when it's kind of lacking 303 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,240 you look at those things and and you know it looked that way in 304 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,120 games like the the like you said they've lacked energy and I 305 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:25,800 think that's the identity of the leadership. 306 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,840 And like I said, I'm not putting that fully on Mike Woodson. 307 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,480 It's also the leaders on the floor that that kind of carry 308 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,280 that. Yeah, it's it's a weird 309 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:38,280 combination and and I think, you know, we we as IU fans and 310 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,400 observers, you know, generally try to assign the best possible 311 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,120 traits without, you know, to players, without necessarily 312 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,680 knowing whether those are true. You know, we look at players and 313 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,800 I think everybody wants to believe the best about all of 314 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,080 them. And you know, individually, it 315 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,880 does feel like you get guys playing hard in this system, but 316 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,319 it's just it's odd because they don't feel like they are able to 317 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:08,079 collectively come together and deal with with situations. 318 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,359 And this is where I think parsing this season has been 319 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,359 very difficult for a lot of people to get their heads 320 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,280 around. You know, because there have 321 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,119 been seasons where Indiana's had bad rosters or rosters that just 322 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,920 weren't like were I'll fitting had players that people didn't 323 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,359 like da da, da da. That's not really this season. 324 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,920 For the most part there have been seasons where Indiana 325 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,920 didn't have like good scheme. You know, I mean or scheme that 326 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,840 just was not fitting. 2014 is a great example of that where 327 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,320 everything went wrong. It was like such an an abnormal 328 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,800 season from a statistical perspective from every other 329 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,080 season that was in the Tom Crean era or 2004 or 2005 like those 330 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,120 sorts of years. The season doesn't really fit 331 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,960 under any of those categories, but it also fits under all of 332 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,080 those categories. And and trying to point a finger 333 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:58,920 at roster construction or strategy or motivation or Esprit 334 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,600 de corps or whatever, It's like you cannot say this is the 335 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,440 reason Indiana's losing games, this is the reason Indiana's 336 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,000 bad. It's all of those things 337 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000 simultaneously. It is. 338 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,640 And and to me that points to more of a macro issue which it 339 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,040 was kind of where I was going with my video yesterday is like 340 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,520 when a lot of the important factors of a good basketball 341 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,640 team are bad that that paints A bleak picture for the future. 342 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,600 And like again, I'm I don't it's not personal with me with with 343 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,800 Mike Woodson he's AIU legend he you know he's he's a fantastic 344 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,000 human being by all accounts. It's just that there are a lot 345 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,800 of issues right now within the program and like you said, game 346 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,960 to game, it's even different why they lost. 347 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,600 You know, it could be chalked with the roster construction or 348 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,600 free throws or shooting or whatever the case may be. 349 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,720 But like when it's across the board, most things are are bad. 350 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,600 It's really hard to turn that tide because as Mike Woodson has 351 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,800 even said is, you know, we got a lot of new pieces and so it's 352 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,240 it's hard to get them to play together. 353 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,120 And as we've talked about, the cohesion is off. 354 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,800 Well, well, next year, it's not like there's going to be a ton 355 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,400 of roster cotton here. Thank you, Tony. 356 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,880 I'm glad somebody's bringing this up. 357 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:13,560 Go on. Yes. 358 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,960 So it's like, all right, well, the next season is going to be a 359 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,400 lot of the same in terms of new pieces coming in. 360 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,840 So like if you've said it out of your own mouth, I struggled to 361 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,440 get new pieces to play together. It's like, what are we to expect 362 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,040 next season then? Yeah, I mean that's this is 363 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,000 where there's like two different levels of this. 364 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,360 There's obviously the micro level. 365 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,000 This season is awful. It and it's weird because you 366 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,720 know it's like it's like an every 10 year thing. 367 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,480 It's it's like Indiana basketball leap year in the 368 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,160 worst possible way. O3O four was an awful season. 369 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,240 It felt like the the crash and burn that everybody thought 370 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,200 might be coming a couple years earlier, but didn't 20/13/2014, 371 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,400 you get those two great years and then you have that here this 372 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,960 year, 2 great years, or not really great years, but an OK 373 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,080 year and a better year and then this. 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:10,560 But looking at it from a season perspective, it is this oddity 375 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,640 where it's not just that everything's going wrong, it's 376 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,720 that everything's going wrong. And it's like, well, is this the 377 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,240 actual? IU basketball in terms of where 378 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,600 the program's at right now or is this one of those like, well, 379 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:33,080 you know, I my, my, I blew a tire driving into work and you 380 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,440 know, my car caught on fire, like right afterwards. 381 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,200 You know, it's like you get those seasons where everything 382 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,760 goes wrong. They do happen, but it's not 383 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480 like like when North Carolina misses the tournament or 384 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,120 Kentucky misses the tournament. It's like, well, OK, that 385 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:46,800 sucked. That's not acceptable. 386 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,560 But hey, look at all these pieces that are already there 387 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,840 that were young and needed to coalesce. 388 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,800 That's not what's happening right now with this IU team. 389 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,360 There's there's not youth pieces on the bench that look like 390 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,400 they're ready to come in. Caleb Banks, we haven't seen in 391 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,360 a month. CJ Gunn is still very 392 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:12,400 inconsistent and you know, Khalil Ware looks like he's 393 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,160 going to go to the pros. I mean, there's just, there's 394 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,680 not a lot of things and you only have one player currently 395 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,400 committed. And even in the transfer portal 396 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,720 era, it's hard to have a lot of faith that, hey, we're going to 397 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,240 put a bunch of new pieces in place. 398 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,240 If you're also going to say, well, the reason that Indiana's 399 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,280 not playing this well is because of a lack of continuity or a 400 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:29,800 lack of guys who have been in the system. 401 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,360 It it might be that everybody who's concerned about this is 402 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:36,640 freaking out for no reason. And we won't know that until 403 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,840 next year, obviously. But it for those of us who are 404 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,560 paying attention, all kinds of alarms are going off in terms of 405 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,280 where the trajectory of this is headed. 406 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,800 Because it just if this is, if this is a representation of what 407 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,120 you're going to get moving forward without Trace Jackson, 408 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:57,520 Davis, that is a real concern. Absolutely and and the transfer 409 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:04,360 portal is is a nice bonus if you have a good roster in place 410 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,000 where you can plug a couple of holes but if you've got a lot if 411 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,280 you've got five holes to plug you're in trouble and it's it's 412 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,560 been evidenced this year with I think it was every team that I 413 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,800 got six or more players in the portal at the power five level 414 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,760 is is projected to miss the tournament as it currently 415 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,200 stands. You know, we saw Rick Pitino 416 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,400 come out last week and and basically say, you know, I, I 417 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,320 hit the portal hard and I recruited guys I shouldn't have 418 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,360 and it's been an abject disaster essentially. 419 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,400 And so the the the continuity aspect is important. 420 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,800 I mean Ken Palm has that as a metric for a reason because 421 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,400 continuity is important. It's well like if that's kind of 422 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,560 the crutch that that we're leaning on here is like we need 423 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,400 continuity. It's not going to be there next 424 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,120 year, that's for sure. You right now you've got in the 425 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:02,280 last two freshman classes, you brought in a total of four 426 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,320 players now with Chuck Newton Cape cops and then you got a 427 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,960 late Mackenzie and Bacco edition and then right now you've got 428 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,560 one guy in Liam Mcneely in the freshman class. 429 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,160 So it's like the foundation that that you're leisurely building 430 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,200 on is pretty rocky and shaky. And then you know just as a side 431 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,720 note that 2014 team was was really bad and they were Ken 432 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,600 Pong 60 something. We're Ken pong 104 right now. 433 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:33,800 So like almost double is bad. Yeah, I mean this is to some 434 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,960 degree I think sometimes we overestimate good IU teams and 435 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,880 we underestimate how bad some bad IU teams are. 436 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,760 This is, this is significantly worse. 437 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,200 I mean, we've pointed this out before. 438 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:48,840 You you do have to go back to what Crane's third year to, 439 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,480 well, you have to go back to the second year to find a team 440 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,840 worse. But you have to go back to 441 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,000 Crane's third year to find a team that has had the kind of 442 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,480 struggles. But that team, I remember having 443 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,680 a podcast debate with a good friend of ours, Pierce 444 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Kavanaugh. Father Pierce Kavanaugh. 445 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,800 Now Jimmy Kavanaugh. At the time, I remember poster 446 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,800 season, he was and he was right. I was wrong. 447 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,880 But he was trying to point out like, well, that team. 448 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,560 They were 12 and 20. They were 3 and 15, but they 449 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,640 were, there were seeds that had been planted that year. 450 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,520 You had, you know, Christian Watford kind of broken out. 451 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,680 Will she? He and Victor Oladipo look like 452 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,360 promising guys coming off the bench. 453 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,840 You know you had Jordan Holes who had kind of established 454 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,360 himself as as a a dead eye shooter There you could see the 455 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:36,760 beginnings of a system that was starting to take hold which 456 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,080 would really take off the next year because you had Cody Zeller 457 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,040 coming into the picture. It's hard to look at this year's 458 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,000 team and say, oh, seeds are being planted and and there's a 459 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,920 definite direction for the program. 460 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,360 And that is that is a real concern. 461 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,480 And and I think I understand the perspective of fans out there 462 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,320 who are saying, oh, you all you people who are you know, are 463 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280 upset about what's going on or calling for Mike Woodson to move 464 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,120 on or whatever are way overreacting to one bad season. 465 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,480 The one bad season happens. I get that perspective. 466 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,560 But I think if you pay attention to college basketball close 467 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,480 enough, over time there's a there's a difference in tenor 468 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,760 between a bad season out of a string of good seasons and a bad 469 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,440 season that looks and feels like a trajectory change of a 470 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,280 program. And that is, I think, at least 471 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,640 for me, and I feel like for you, it's the same thing. 472 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,440 That is why I've been so increasingly concerned over the 473 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,160 last month and a half about because I, I, I really looked at 474 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,560 this team and I said, OK, they're clearly there's more 475 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,560 talent on this team this year than there was in that 2010, 476 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,920 2011 team by far. I mean, just in terms of star 477 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,320 ratings, in terms of overall basketball quality. 478 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,800 But there, there is very little sense of what Indiana wants to 479 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,680 do as working, especially on defense. 480 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,800 Like I can deal with the not great offensive team if there's 481 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,400 a lot of defensive intensity. We see teams make the tournament 482 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,040 all the time that are subpar on offense, but they are locked 483 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,400 down defensively and this team just looks incredibly. 484 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,160 I don't, I don't even know if it's that their lackadaisical on 485 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,920 defense, Tony, but they just they're not in the right spots a 486 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,440 lot of the time. They're not defending the 487 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,080 three-point line particularly well. 488 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,840 They're not closing out on shooters. 489 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,560 They they're easy to break down off the dribble. 490 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,720 They get all kinds of discombobulated when the ball 491 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,680 moves a bunch on the perimeter. So I look at all of that and and 492 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,200 I try to put that in the context and I'm like that is A and that 493 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,200 that was kind of what it was like last year too. 494 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,680 I mean the length that Indiana had managed to bail them out of 495 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,360 a lot of those situations. But this has been the system and 496 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,720 we've watched the defensive efficiency of this team sink 497 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,000 like a stone in the three years that Mike Woodson has been the 498 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,080 head coach. That is among many other reasons 499 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,080 why it's so concerning about the trajectory of things 'cause it 500 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,120 doesn't just feel like a one off now. 501 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,200 Again, we might be sitting here in February of 2025 saying, God, 502 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,760 we sounded like idiots last year, but it doesn't feel that 503 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,760 way. And it's a kind of an unknowable 504 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,760 thing, but it's a real problem. It's a very real problem. 505 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,120 And you know, I remember when in Scott Dolson's, I don't know if 506 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,600 it was a press conference or a news release when they fired 507 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,560 Archie Miller. And he talked about the search, 508 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,520 coaching, search process. And he said, you know, we're 509 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,960 going to look for somebody on the cutting edge of, you know, 510 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,440 basketball that that, you know, looks at analytics and looks at 511 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,040 how the games being played and functions that way. 512 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:42,560 Well, the system, and I'm not saying this just to be like, 513 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,440 funny, the system is literally exactly what Archie Miller did. 514 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,040 I mean, offensively, defensively, our identity is 515 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,600 exactly the same. Except. 516 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,360 Not except not as efficient. Except worse. 517 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:59,280 Yeah, you know, Mike Woodson doesn't call his defense pack 518 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,240 line. It's pack line. 519 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,440 He sits in gaps and he he tries to pressure the ball, go over 520 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,400 the top of screens. He's in drop coverage on ball 521 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,040 screens. That's pack line. 522 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,600 He's in the pack line. Defense, offensively forced run 523 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,920 their offense through the post 2 posts on the blocks. 524 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,440 Archie Miller ran the blocker mover with Joey Bronk and Trace 525 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,440 Jackson Davis on the block like it is the exact same system. 526 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,600 So you kind of let Archie Miller go because those things weren't 527 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,840 working. You got it. 528 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,160 Again. I mean it's it's it's not 529 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,160 exactly the same. It's the same but worse as it 530 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,520 currently stands. And that part's what's 531 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,800 concerning to me and I also think two I I think a lot of 532 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,600 fans that that are in the hey it's one bad season you got to 533 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,040 relax. I I think they it's more of a a 534 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,960 box score watching standings watching 14 and 12. 535 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,640 N Carolina had a bad season last year like those things are very 536 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,040 surface level but there is nuance and context behind them. 537 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,160 North Carolina last year missed the tournament there were 43 in 538 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,400 Ken Palm. There were 13 spots behind 539 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,040 Indiana and and like you said had the pieces there and they're 540 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,160 coming off a national runner up like that that that. 541 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,560 Matters. Well. 542 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,360 A little extra context for everybody, yes. 543 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,080 That's that's not anywhere in the realm of what Indiana's 544 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,000 doing this season. And I get, I keep citing 545 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,800 Kenpong, but that's because it's an unbiased metric. 546 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,120 Like there's no human poles or anything there like 14 and 12 547 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,000 Indiana and 14 and 12 N Carolina last year are not the same. 548 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,480 And and that's what I keep trying to get across here is 549 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,800 it's like it's deeper than just the record. 550 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,960 It's deeper than just some losses to good teams. 551 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,160 It's like it's the how and the context and the nuance that is 552 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,600 involved in that. And that's where I think some 553 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280 people struggle to kind of look that deep at it, I guess. 554 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,720 Yeah, I mean and and look, I I don't want Indiana to look like 555 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,280 they're on a bad trajectory. I would like to be like, well, 556 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,120 gosh, I want to be able to explain away the the way that 557 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,560 Indiana's playing, which has been poor and say, well, this is 558 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,440 all in service of something greater. 559 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,160 I just don't see the greater at this point. 560 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,000 And and and again, maybe we'll be wrong, but it feels like it's 561 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,240 subtractive as opposed to additive. 562 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,440 If if that makes sense to everybody, like, it really feels 563 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,600 like, weirdly, it's like, you know, I never thought I would 564 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,440 say this either, but it feels like, well, there was a 565 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,280 foundation laid with what Archie Miller did and and Mike Woodson 566 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,840 did a good job of bringing in Miller cop. 567 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,640 And you know, when Xavier Johnson was healthy, that was a 568 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,320 good addition. But those pieces are gone and 569 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,880 the rest of the pieces have not meshed like at all. 570 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,560 And the team cohesion that made last year's team work as well as 571 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,120 it did, and it didn't work. It wasn't always working like it 572 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,600 was a that was a season. It's weird. 573 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,640 You look back at, it's like, wow, second in the Big 10, 574 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,720 second round of the tournament. And yet there were a lot of 575 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,880 games last year where it kind of felt like Indiana just barely 576 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040 got over the line. And they did so because of their 577 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,200 individual talent and the fact that they really played as a 578 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,960 coherent unit. This year, they're not playing 579 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480 like a coherent unit. They don't have quite the level 580 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,040 of talent and they're not doing all of that. 581 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,320 And now you're looking at it and it's like, well, where does that 582 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,720 come from, especially if you're going to have to go deep into 583 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,080 the transfer portal to find guys to come in and somehow assemble 584 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,880 all of that moving forward. That's a daunting task given 585 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,200 that you had to already dip into the portal and the I'm not going 586 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,880 there anywhere pool, what I don't know what we call that 587 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,200 recruiting pool, but we've gotten Tamar Bates and you've 588 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,640 gotten Mackenzie and Bacco out of it here the last couple of 589 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,840 years. There's not a lot of deep ties 590 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,760 to the players who would be in Indiana uniforms next year. 591 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,200 So you're really you're rolling the dice to an extreme degree 592 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,680 that you're somehow going to have the numbers come up 593 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,320 positive when they clearly didn't this year. 594 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,640 And I think that's that to me is the main difference between like 595 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,240 the North Carolina situation. I look I actually the the team I 596 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,720 think a lot about or the program I think a lot about right now is 597 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,200 Villanova. You know Jay Wright retires they 598 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,840 you know they they bring in Kyle Neptune as the head coach and 599 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,120 it's just not the same you know that in in the three years that 600 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,360 Neptune has been or the sorry the two years he's been there 601 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,560 they've been 17 and 17 and then they're 15 and 11 now they're 602 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,760 better this year. I would weirdly I you know given 603 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,800 even that they're almost the same record as Indiana I would 604 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,160 kill for Villanova's record right now because the 31st and 605 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,400 Ken Palm they've played fairly well. 606 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,000 They've been really good defensively but they just 607 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,560 haven't won the games they need to win. 608 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,440 But even with that, they they what made Villanova. 609 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,600 Villanova is not there right now. 610 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,600 And so I worry about that a lot with Indiana, where it just kind 611 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,160 of feels like it's trending in a direction where there's not a 612 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,800 lot of of cohesion or identity as far as the program. 613 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,800 And trying to plug new pieces in who have never played with each 614 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,480 other really feels like it's going to be a concern moving 615 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,520 forward. Yeah, and would, would, would 616 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,200 honestly make me just feel better and and I get it. 617 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,880 I'm I'm just a fan and the fans are owed nothing but I I do 618 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,680 think that they are a big piece to the equation in terms of you 619 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,960 know obviously within IO Now it it certainly is a bigger pack 620 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,320 factor but the Indiana fans are die hard and and you know the I 621 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,000 think the vast majority of us are actually fairly reasonable 622 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,200 you know I I think that we get a bad Rep sometimes national media 623 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,800 wise and oh they're impatient blah blah blah blah. 624 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,440 But I would like it if Mike Woodson would just look directly 625 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,560 in a camera and say this season is unacceptable by every stretch 626 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,520 of the imagination. Indiana basketball should never 627 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,960 be this low and I'm going to fight like hell this off season 628 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,440 to right these wrongs and it's on me. 629 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,880 And if he just said that, I would feel much better about the 630 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,840 trajectory of next season. Because it would. 631 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,480 It would relay to me that like he understands the failures of 632 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,360 this season and how deep they are, but instead we get guys, 633 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,719 we're young, you know the the talent hasn't meshed. 634 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,040 You know, we've had some injury issues or whatever the case may 635 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,480 be. So to me, and I get it and he's 636 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,480 not going to say everything publicly, but like to me, I I 637 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,560 struggle to know that he actually understands like the 638 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,960 deep rooted issues that are going on with this team and and 639 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,560 how to fix him. Because to be quite frank, he's 640 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,239 never had to do it. Like, you know that it's at at 641 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,400 the college level. Like, you know, I I mentioned 642 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,760 this somewhere else. But like this is the first time 643 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,199 in his life he's ever had to play GM and head coach. 644 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,840 And there are differences like, you know, in terms of of talent 645 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,400 evaluation and and then getting rosters to to be together. 646 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,520 Like as a head coach in the NBA. Yes, you've got to say in guys 647 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,360 you bring in and whatnot, but there's somebody employed above 648 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,520 you that actually that's their job is to figure all those 649 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,440 things out. He's never had to do that and 650 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,160 and so the fact that he's never done it before and all of a 651 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,160 sudden he's tasked with this this grand, you know problem and 652 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,480 really hasn't hasn't said he knows that's the problem. 653 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,240 That's where to me it's like, man, like. 654 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,440 Yeah, it's tough concerning. I I think about that a lot. 655 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,880 I and I I think well is that is that fair to say Well the coach 656 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,280 should come out and like make a clear statement but look I I do 657 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,880 think this I think you're I think you're right. 658 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,320 I'm I'm sure there's people out there who would argue no you 659 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,440 guys are are are blinded by whatever. 660 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,440 Are you fandom? Are you fans? 661 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,560 Are actually pretty patient and are generally pretty reasonable 662 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,680 and again you're free to laugh at that if you want. 663 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,000 I know a lot of you like there's a there's a weird kind of 664 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,960 identity and say no are you fans suck. 665 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,760 This is the worst fan base on the planet whatever. 666 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,440 But some kind of public recognition that things are not 667 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,800 going well and you know we realize that we know it's 668 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,560 disappointing. We're working on it would, I 669 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,320 think, go a long way because I I really do think fans want to 670 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,880 believe that Mike Woodson knows what's going on and that Mike 671 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,040 Woodson is, is able to fix the problems that have suddenly hit 672 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,760 this program hit, you know, straight in the face. 673 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,600 It doesn't feel that way. And I and I think you know where 674 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,680 a lot of the frustration from fans has come from is it's the 675 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,800 same mistakes. It's the same problems over and 676 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,360 over again every single game. And, you know, it's it's you go 677 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,840 on Twitter or you know some other social media during a game 678 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,320 and it's just you're playing the hits. 679 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,360 It's the substitution patterns, or it's the lack of outside 680 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,080 shots, or it's the inability to close out on defense. 681 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,880 It's the lack of intensity that you you let Nebraska score 682 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,400 almost a point and 1/2 per possession in the first half of 683 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,040 the game and it's like, well, gosh, you just letting 684 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,520 Northwestern score 1.2 points per possession for the whole 685 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,000 game. It's like it never changes. 686 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,920 And there doesn't seem to be any real, like acknowledgement that 687 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,520 yes, there are problems and we know that there are problems. 688 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,960 And there's also even non verbally, there's no clear 689 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,240 visual recognition that yes, these are the issues that are 690 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,440 causing us to lose and we're trying different things. 691 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,160 It feels like the same stuff gets rolled out all the time and 692 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,640 the same results end up happening over and over again. 693 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,680 That is incredibly frustrating. I don't know. 694 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,480 I don't know honestly for the rest of the fan base if it would 695 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,200 help if Mike Woodson came out and just like gave a 5 minute 696 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,560 dissertation on all the problems. 697 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:34,160 But it would make me feel better because it would at least I'd be 698 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,360 like, OK, he gets it, he understands, he knows what's 699 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200 going on, he acknowledges it, and at least there's some kind 700 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,880 of an effort. I, you know, to some degree, I 701 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,840 feel like Crane in his third year, like kind of did that in 702 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,840 as much as there was at least an acknowledgement that things 703 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,840 weren't happening the way that he had envisioned. 704 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,360 And that again, it bought him some extra time with fans to 705 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,080 some degree. Because at least they were like, 706 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,160 well, OK, he's at least realizing that changes have to 707 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,960 be made, and then they ended up getting made later. 708 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,320 Exactly. And and like he said like he he 709 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,360 doesn't owe it to us or anything like that. 710 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,480 But I think it would go a long way in terms of like, you know I 711 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,720 I think most fans right now like his seats pretty Dang hot. 712 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,840 I think it would be cool. But if he would just say like 713 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,720 this is not acceptable and it's it's my fault and I'm going to 714 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:23,960 work like hell to fix it. And I think something as simple 715 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,840 as that would would go a long way. 716 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,640 But instead it's it's more of the excuse making and you know 717 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,160 we've played well in spurts. It's like well the game's 40 718 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,480 minutes you know. So it's that part of it is just 719 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,400 what's frustrating to me and and it's just like does he identify 720 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,400 these things like you would think and hope like he's been 721 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,640 around basketball forever you would you would expect that he's 722 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,400 identified these things. But it's just that the fact that 723 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,960 it hasn't really been acknowledged and like you said, 724 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,600 it hasn't been acknowledged on the court or like, you know, I I 725 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,000 don't want to dissect everything he says in press conferences. 726 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,840 But, you know, Mackenzie and Bacco, I think since the second 727 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,240 he committed to Indiana, people been like, man, him at a small 728 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,760 ball four would be a sight to see. 729 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,000 Like, you know, he he kind of has a little mellow to him. 730 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,200 Like he's 68. He's got a good frame. 731 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,920 He, he moves pretty slow laterally. 732 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,600 He lacks some athleticism on the wing. 733 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,800 Like small Ball 4 might be a great thing for him against 734 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,480 Northwestern. He gets forced into playing 735 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,200 Mackenzie and Baca with the four for really the first time of the 736 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,840 season. They play pretty Dang well doing 737 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,280 it. And you know, he comes out and 738 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:31,760 says essentially, yeah, we might explore that a little bit moving 739 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,680 forward. And it's like, OK, well it's, 740 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,360 you know, it's it's early February. 741 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,120 Now that's just the concerning piece of it where it's just like 742 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,040 if if people like me and other folks on Twitter can identify 743 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,200 these things, you know back in June or whatever when Mackenzie 744 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,520 and Bacco came aboard, it's like why is it taking till February 745 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,200 to even acknowledge like we we might give that a look. 746 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,360 That's it. Just again, it lends to the the 747 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,880 macro picture of things, why I'm more concerned about like what 748 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,720 Indiana looks like moving forward than I do like. 749 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,240 The 20/23/24 season, like this season, is obviously a loss. 750 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,000 You know, barring a miracle run in the Big 10 tournament, 751 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,040 there's got to be no postseason. We're great in the Big 10 752 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,000 tournament, Tony. Let's not write that off so 753 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,120 easily. So you know, OK, there's one 754 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,240 last thing I want to get to before I let you go, which is 755 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:31,640 the booing in in Assembly Hall for the Nebraska game. 756 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,920 There wasn't really much booing during the Northwestern game, 757 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,680 but but it was really out in force for Nebraska. 758 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:44,200 This is a weird one because you just don't get that in Assembly 759 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,240 Hall very often. And look, it's it's a bad idea 760 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,200 to Boo your own players on your home floor. 761 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,200 It it's just like collectively. It's dumb from like a perception 762 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,760 standpoint more than anything else. 763 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,000 If you're booing your own players in the college game, it 764 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,360 happens in the pros sometimes, but they generally have to be 765 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,640 real bad to get to that point. But in the college game, 766 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,760 especially when you know a large amount of why a player would 767 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,080 want to go play somewhere is oh, they'll like me there. 768 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,080 When you see footage of a player getting booed like that's, 769 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,960 that's probably getting used negatively in recruiting down 770 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,120 the line. But, and this is going to sound 771 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,480 like I'm defending the booors, I'm not. 772 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,040 But I do think that it's important to understand the the 773 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,480 mentality that has led to that particular situation. 774 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,800 And I think about this. You're in the midst of getting 775 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,120 blown out in the first half by Nebraska, Which Nebraska's a 776 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,640 better team than Indiana right now, but it's Nebraska. 777 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,920 It's you're on your route to losing your third home game in a 778 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,440 row, and the three home games that you're losing in a row are 779 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,800 Penn State, Northwestern and Nebraska and the average IU fan. 780 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,600 Not even like the Super fans. Just the average IU fans. 781 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,200 Like, you know, that does not feel like the milieu that we 782 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,920 should be losing to that, that is, that is like, if I were to 783 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,560 name the worst brands of basketball in the Big 10, those 784 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,200 would probably be the first three names that you brought up. 785 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,280 Maybe you'd throw in Minnesota, but that's, that's, that's the 786 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,160 that's the bottom. So the frustration, I think fans 787 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,400 feel, it kind of tracks with what we've talked about up to 788 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,840 this point. It's like the same thing keeps 789 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,560 happening, but it's worse. The effort looks awful. 790 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,960 The the system doesn't look like it works and you're playing a 791 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,960 team that should be worse than you in your mind, as a fan who 792 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,280 is hitting shots all over the floor and is playing pretty 793 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,760 free, playing with a level of cohesion and there is no outlet 794 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,000 not, you know, most people don't have podcasts where they can 795 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,400 talk through these things publicly and have other people 796 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,600 listen and and fans at this point, you know, we've talked 797 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,600 about this on this podcast a few times. 798 00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:00,120 You've had this building resentment for like why is 799 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,920 Indiana basketball not better? Like you know we're we're paying 800 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:06,200 premium prices for tickets and we're paying you know we're 801 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,320 we're told all the time this is a historic program. 802 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,840 You've got the banners. You've got all the championships 803 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,840 in the Big 10. Why is this constantly what's 804 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,840 being put in front of us And it it doesn't excuse the booing. 805 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,640 But I think you know when you look at when this sort of thing 806 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,840 happens it's almost always a break point for the fans and 807 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,280 it's really hard to come back from and whether you know not 808 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,200 sanctioning the booing but reacting to it. 809 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,520 I've all, I can only remember it really happening twice. 810 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,800 It happened a bit at the end of Queen's time that last year when 811 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,680 then that February and March kind of spiraled out of control 812 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,440 in 2017 and it happened obviously at the Big 10 813 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:51,280 tournament in 2021 and that almost directly led to Archie 814 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,800 Miller getting fired. This is a fan base that when 815 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,440 when they're pushed to this level in terms of what's put in 816 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,840 front of them and what they see and they they feel compelled to 817 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,560 do that kind of organically like nobody organized them before. 818 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,800 The game is a guys we got to Boo today. 819 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,880 We're going to Boo our own players with the free throw line 820 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,880 like that is a real concern and and and I do wonder having seen 821 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,600 that like what's the route back from that for this program and 822 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,000 for Mike Woodson. We know what Whatever you feel 823 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,440 about Mike Woodson's future, what is the route back from 824 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,160 getting booed off the floor in Assembly Hall? 825 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,240 It's it's kind of what I noted yesterday. 826 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:35,240 I I, I really do think it's too far gone like it that's that's 827 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,920 really, really hard to come back from and and I'm with you. 828 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,520 I think the booing's silly but I'm also with you in terms of I 829 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:49,160 don't think the mentality of those folks is is hey, let's Boo 830 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,520 the players, 'cause we, you know, we hate them or they suck 831 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,440 or whatever the case may be. It's more so like I'm sick of 832 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,720 this crap Boo. Like I'm I'm over this. 833 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,920 Like you know it's it's just the the way that they're they're 834 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,040 getting out their emotions of like I'm over this. 835 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,320 Like whatever this is as I wave my hands violently in the camera 836 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,320 here, whatever this is, is not working and I'm going to let you 837 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,080 know that I don't like watching this. 838 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,640 And so that's that's I think the mentality of where those booze 839 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,640 are coming from. I don't like it. 840 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,400 Again like you said that's a negative recruiting you know 841 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,400 immediately like that that's going to be you know any player 842 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,680 you're fighting for. Which leads me to the future of 843 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,040 this is you know that's that's hard to recruit against. 844 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,840 The 2025 class in the state of Indiana is the cream of the crop 845 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,520 best class in at least a decade and there are a lot of kids that 846 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,080 wants to go to IU like they they do. 847 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,480 I I've got pretty good Intel on some of these guys they want to 848 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,400 go to IU. However, they're they're really 849 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,520 struggling to pull the trigger when it comes to this product. 850 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,960 Well, here's the thing. You know, people are like, well, 851 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,760 you know, they're 2025, they're committing before Indiana 852 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,760 probably plays another game in the 202425 season, like the 25 853 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,000 class commits in the fall of 24. And so this is kind of it. 854 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,040 Like these last couple months here are are the last or last 855 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,600 couple weeks or the last time they can actually see your team 856 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,360 play before they're making decisions. 857 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,760 Now listen, relationships and things matter and recruiting for 858 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,680 sure. But like Indiana's not going to 859 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,320 play another game before these things happen. 860 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,920 So you keep this same regime. This is what they're working 861 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,320 against. Like there's there's a lot 862 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,520 they're working against now. They've got nil and those things 863 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,040 that do work in their favor. But you know, if if my kid was a 864 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,000 top player right now being recruited by Iowa Perdue, I 865 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,000 think I would really struggle to send them to the situation in 866 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,520 Indiana right now. And that that's why I I have 867 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,040 deep concern about the future of the program under this regime. 868 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,240 Yeah, that's that's kind of the overarching point I think is you 869 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:07,880 know I mean as fans we talk about these things or we talk 870 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,520 about them on the podcast, but the perceptions matter to people 871 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,280 who aren't fans and that's the thing I keep coming back to. 872 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,280 And and it's it's really ruled a lot of my thoughts about like 873 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,000 OK, well Indiana's they've only got 1 recruit, they're going to 874 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,360 have to go into transfer portal. And I just, I keep coming back 875 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,800 to this idea like if you are a a high level guard and you're in 876 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,200 the transfer portal and you're looking at places to go. 877 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,440 Unless you have a dynamite relationship or really feel like 878 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,360 a a positive vibe with Woodson or the coaching staff. 879 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,760 I'm not sure what you would look at this season or last season 880 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,920 for large stretches of it and say that's the situation that I 881 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,040 want to put myself in, that's where I want to go. 882 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,960 That's going to get me where I want to get to as a basketball 883 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,040 player. And certainly, I mean there's 884 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,520 there's other considerations and Indiana's going to be in a lot 885 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,160 of those conversations because of the nil money that they have 886 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,000 at their disposal. But as we've seen, we saw it 887 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,200 with Dalton Connect, we saw it with some other folks last year. 888 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,480 The money isn't everything. The the, the situation matters. 889 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,720 We're seeing it in football. It's like, you know, people were 890 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,360 trying to transfer out of IU football. 891 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,640 The situation changes, new coaching staff comes in, they 892 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,000 have a different vision. People are trying to come back. 893 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,720 Some of them didn't get allowed to come back. 894 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,560 You know it really does matter what is like what people see can 895 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,680 they envision themselves in it and what the coaching staff says 896 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,760 and whether you believe that what they're saying actually 897 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,880 matches with the reality and and man it it does not look great. 898 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,160 And again we might be sitting here a month and a half, two 899 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,160 months from now and being like wow, we were really overly 900 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,440 concerned about that for no reason because look at this hall 901 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,280 that Indiana got in the portal. But it doesn't feel like that's 902 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,320 the trend that things are going in and and when you when you're 903 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,120 playing bad enough as a team that your home fans who are 904 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,360 pretty respectful, always very supportive. 905 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,600 I mean you saw that huge support Indiana had last night in the 906 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,160 women's game against Iowa when they feel compelled to Boo 907 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,360 multiple times throughout the course of the game. 908 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:11,040 You know that that is a, that is a, that is a thermometer and and 909 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,840 when you know the thermometer gets to that. 910 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,160 It's running hot. It's running hot. 911 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,800 When you get to that level it's like that's that's that's a 912 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,040 problem. I don't I don't know what the 913 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,400 what the like how you parse that within the confines of the 914 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,040 trajectory of the program. And you know, what's frightening 915 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,400 to me is that Indiana's got two more home games this season And 916 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,960 those home games, I I think it's, you know, it should be 917 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,680 noted because it it matters very much in the context of this 918 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,480 particular statement. They're at home versus 919 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:43,720 Wisconsin. Who? 920 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,440 Tony, Indiana does not have a great history recently. 921 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,520 And by recently, I mean the last 20 years playing against 922 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,160 Wisconsin. And then they got to finish the 923 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,120 season with Senior Day at home against Michigan State, who 924 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,200 despite their record, is one of the best 20 teams in the 925 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,640 country. That is a recipe for abject 926 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,920 disaster on a public national stage. 927 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,760 And that really, really concerns me. 928 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,400 Yeah, I think that game's on CBS. 929 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:11,000 Yeah, that's. Great. 930 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,400 That's exactly what we needed, yes. 931 00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,960 Yeah, And it's everything we talked about. 932 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,480 And then it's even looking forward, let's say, OK, you 933 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,960 bring Mike Woodson back. I think everybody would agree if 934 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,560 you bring Mike Woodson back his seat on fire next year, well, 935 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,360 looking at expectations next year, what's what's he got to do 936 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,840 next year to keep his job, you know, because then you're 937 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,600 looking at he's only got 2-3 years left on his contract. 938 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,840 He got to extend them because you don't want a coach that has 939 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,080 less than four years on their contract, typically because 940 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,880 players that come to the program want to know that the coach has 941 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,560 stability and longevity and all that. 942 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,240 So like, even as I look forward, I'm like, are you just kicking 943 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,040 the can down the road here because his seats coming on 944 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,800 fire, every little thing is going to be under a microscope 945 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,560 next season. And those Bluebirds, you know, 946 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,000 if you're struggling against a Florida Gulf Coast in game one, 947 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,840 they may come out like happened this year. 948 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,200 And so it's like, I think you, I think you could set yourself up 949 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,240 for a really, really, really, really toxic situation. 950 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,520 And then apathy, which is the worst thing that could happen to 951 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,320 a program. And the administration knows 952 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,880 that, you know, if you're the stands already aren't full, you 953 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,280 know, we're at the Penn State game, the balcony was pretty 954 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,120 much completely empty, you know, So it's already starting to 955 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,280 happen a bit. And the worse you get, the more 956 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:39,160 that apathy sets in. And then you know the 8000 957 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,880 people or whatever, they're there that do care. 958 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,560 The boos just get real loud and concentrated and it's just it 959 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,080 could be bad. Well, and I just, I mean this is 960 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,800 where and this is where their collateral damage comes in 961 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,480 because it ends up being the players. 962 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,800 I mean, Trey Galloway is getting asked about getting booed on his 963 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,480 home floor in in the post game press conference against 964 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,480 Nebraska and and again, it's like IU fans shouldn't Boo at 965 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,520 home. But the fact that they felt 966 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,080 compelled to Boo it, it just it's a really bad situation. 967 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,240 And I do worry about the trajectory because unless this 968 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:15,640 team finds a gear this year that we have not seen, it just feels 969 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,880 like it's going to regress even more as we get through these 970 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,560 last few weeks of the season. And maybe we'll be wrong about 971 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,720 that. But just observationally 972 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,560 speaking, it is very much a concern as far as how things are 973 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,440 going, how people are already reacting and the road moving 974 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,720 forward here as we get into the end of February and into March. 975 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:39,160 Yeah, and and don't forget too, that, like, these players can 976 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,560 also transfer out. Right. 977 00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,120 They're not on four year contracts like they're they they 978 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,000 they have movement as well, absolutely. 979 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,040 And so you know that you you and also there's things happening 980 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,560 back channels already with these players camps. 981 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,840 You know I I am positive there are very good players in IU 982 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,880 right now that their camps are being talked to by other 983 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,320 universities. Be like you like that situation 984 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,720 man. Like come play for us you got an 985 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,800 opportunity here because it's it's really easy for one player 986 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,120 to go find a good situation. It's really hard for a bunch of 987 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,720 players to come in and then make that a good situation and and so 988 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,600 that's what I would also tell fans be cognizant of is like 989 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,560 there will be attrition out just as there is in and you know we 990 00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:24,400 it's something we'll have to deal with. 991 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,880 Well, on that uplifting note, we'll go ahead and close up 992 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:33,840 shop. No, it's man, I as I've said a 993 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,640 lot the last couple of months I'd love just a a a a non 994 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,360 complicated season from IU men's basketball, like just one where 995 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,240 they they play basketball they they if they were great, 996 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,720 awesome. If they're just good, fine. 997 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,000 You know just just a season where it felt like there was 998 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,240 like a slow but steady positive trajectory. 999 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,880 That is not what we've gotten so far this year and and man it's 1000 00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,080 hard, it's hard to talk about it's hard. 1001 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,680 This is, this is we've been here a few times and again it's like 1002 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,000 the end of Queen's era was kind of like this where you're like, 1003 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,880 I don't know what I'm going to say about this team that hasn't 1004 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,160 already been said that hasn't. You know, that doesn't feel like 1005 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,280 piling on but also acknowledges the reality of the situation 1006 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,320 where it's like stuff's not getting made-up like this is. 1007 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,360 If anything we might be underselling some of the 1008 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,800 problems and issues with IU right now. 1009 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:29,000 And we're doing so out of almost like an overabundance of concern 1010 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,880 that we not come across as like complete you know negative 1011 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,320 people about IU basketball, right? 1012 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,400 It's it's a it's just it's hard to get your head wrapped around. 1013 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,720 And I I just it's sad for the players. 1014 00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:46,560 It's it's it's sad for the coaching staff but for a program 1015 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:52,880 that that supposedly has this level the standard of itself to 1016 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,840 watch it be so far away from that right now after again two 1017 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,480 seasons that were fine but would be average seasons if you 1018 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,360 shuffled up the deck of IU basketball seasons is is really 1019 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,240 hard to to process and talk about with you know and feel 1020 00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:13,600 good about I guess. It's not fun, that's for sure. 1021 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,560 You know, like we we don't take joy in in you know a 55 minute 1022 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,840 recording here kind of talking about all the negative aspects 1023 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,240 of Indiana. We would much rather be doing 1024 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:26,120 the opposite and I think that's important to to know is like the 1025 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,000 negativity is is not fun. You know we don't want these 1026 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,520 things. It's not good for the podcast, 1027 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,240 for apathy to set in for, for folks like these aren't things 1028 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:38,280 you want to do, but I think it's they're important things to 1029 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,520 discuss as well. Believe it or not, the numbers 1030 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,760 go down when IU is not playing well. 1031 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,760 We would prefer IU to be good all the time. 1032 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,120 It does not. I the the people that are in 1033 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,520 your mentions like, well, you're just an engagement troll or 1034 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,640 whatever. It's like Tony would love to 1035 00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,480 talk about a great basketball programmer. 1036 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,040 His number I'd love. To show you all the XS and OS 1037 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,560 and all the good. Stuff they're doing, the the 1038 00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,280 numbers would be Immaculate, but they're not right now, and 1039 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,760 neither are the Vibes. So anyway, Tony Adrania, check 1040 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,640 them out on on on X, check them out on The Film Room. 1041 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,080 Subscribe to the Assembly Call Sub Stack. 1042 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,360 You'll see his stuff there as well. 1043 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,960 And Tony, I appreciate you taking the time this morning to 1044 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,720 chat. Always a pleasure 13 years 1045 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,600 running here. It's, you know, a match made in 1046 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:22,720 heaven. Without question. 1047 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,720 Anyway, for Tony. I'm Galen. 1048 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,760 Thanks for joining us here on Crimson Cast. 1049 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,800 We'll be back post Penn State. We'll talk about what happened 1050 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,520 there. And we got AI. 1051 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,080 Still have that football podcast coming. 1052 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,440 It's half recorded. The rest of it will be done here 1053 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,120 relatively soon anyway. We'll catch you folks soon. 1054 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,560 Thanks to our presenting sponsor, Home Field Apparel. 1055 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:43,960 Catch you folks. On the flip side, bring back the 1056 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:44,960 Bison. That's all everybody.