1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,880 How are boards of directors approaching enterprise AI and AI 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,080 adoption in the enterprise? And what should boards do about 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,600 members who don't understand technology? 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:17,240 Let's get into it on CXO Talk number 866 with Adriana 5 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:20,200 Karaboutis. She's an independent board 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,800 member across multiple industries who has also held 7 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:28,600 senior leadership roles at companies like Dell, Biogen, A, 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,800 National Grid. Where are we in terms of 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,320 adoption of AI in the enterprise? 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,160 What are what are you seeing right now? 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,800 It is different by industry and different by company, but one 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,920 thing that is absolutely consistent, it is permeating and 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,000 growing by the day. Current state of adoption I 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,240 would say is different by industry. 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,160 Tech and software clearly leading the path. 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,680 It's part of the fabric of what they're doing, Virtual 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,800 assistants, chat bots, AI driven cloud services, etcetera. 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,840 Financial services, another industry way up there relative 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,320 to their adoption around fraud management, using it to check 20 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:15,040 algorithms, healthcare being pressured and using it quite a 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,640 bit. And then you see some of the, 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,440 and you also have retail and manufacturing and then you see 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,840 some of the, I wouldn't call them laggards, Michael, but I 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,720 would call them a little bit slower to adopt your regulatory 25 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,320 environments or governments and you know, maybe some of the 26 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:36,280 agricultural components or industries in agriculture in 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,560 terms of adoption inside the companies. 28 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,440 In other words, as these companies and industries are 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,160 trying to drive AI and really become consumers of it, 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,040 internally, you still have about a 104040 ton split where it's 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,640 10% experts, 40% kind of people that are experimenting or in the 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:04,120 novice phase, and then 10% that are actually still very reticent 33 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,000 to adopt. They're the laggards. 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,960 Oh, we shouldn't use this, shut it down, etcetera. 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,600 Some of that coming from lack of education or, or understanding 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,920 of it, I would say, and some of it just coming from an abundance 37 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,480 of being overly conservative and cautious. 38 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,640 So there's quite a spread. But one thing's for sure and 39 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:26,880 it's what I said at the start, the the adoption is going faster 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,360 and faster and faster. We're moving quickly, Michael. 41 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,400 When we talk about large organizations, what do you see 42 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:39,840 as the drivers of AI adoption and also the obstacles or the 43 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,080 roadblocks? The drivers is around 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,760 competitive pressures companies, especially public and private 45 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,880 companies, I shouldn't say especially public, but companies 46 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,160 are always looking to do more with less to have higher 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,040 quality, higher cost, customer satisfaction, employee 48 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,800 satisfaction, returns for shareholders. 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,560 So all the stakeholders are looking for better, more 50 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,920 improved, etcetera. So those pressures that cause 51 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,240 you to look at tools and capabilities that will help you 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,520 achieve that. And so that's some of the 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,960 drivers. And as peers in industries adopt 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,120 more of these tools and are able to actually show more capability 55 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,720 and more of the outcomes that we're looking for, then that 56 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,600 drives competitive pressures to all the companies in that 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,320 industry to stay abreast and continue to improve. 58 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,600 Some of it is around newer products and offerings. 59 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,960 Some of it is around, you know, getting a better bottom line, 60 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,080 which is cost efficiency, reduced SGNA costs, etcetera. 61 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,600 Some of the roadblocks is around, it is changed and there 62 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,680 is just human nature and reticence to adopt. 63 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,400 Michael lack of skills and understanding of the tools and 64 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,200 technology. Risk aversion and boards in 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,120 particular have a big, big role to play around risk management 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,080 and making sure that the company is within what we call risk 67 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,920 appetite and that anything that is adopted or happens stays 68 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,600 within that risk appetite. Whether you're talking about 69 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,440 cyber etcetera, and in particular with artificial 70 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,720 intelligence and tools, there's ethical issues, there's privacy, 71 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,120 there's security, there's ensuring there's no bias and 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,520 fairness, etcetera. Regulatory compliance, legal 73 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,960 compliance, all of those things are huge and, you know, could be 74 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,440 seen as roadblocks to overcome, but certainly slow, slow us down 75 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,880 in our thinking and sort of our foray into artificial 76 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:52,040 intelligence. Andy, you talk a lot about risk. 77 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:58,520 Of course, AI is all about innovation, and innovation 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,360 implies something new that's changing and that's different, 79 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:08,520 which of course is risk. And so as a board member, how do 80 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:14,320 you see this balance? Boards are around governance and 81 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,840 ensuring the company has the right strategy. 82 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:20,360 Management teams do day-to-day operations and execute the 83 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,360 strategy. So as board members, we concern 84 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,000 ourselves with do we have the right strategy in order to meet 85 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,400 our stakeholder commitments and the outcomes that we want, 86 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,280 right. And so we, we have a unique 87 00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:36,520 position. It's not overlapping with 88 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,480 management. It augments management. 89 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,960 There's a trust and a relationship and A and A and a 90 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,640 collaboration that needs to happen with management. 91 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,680 Many have heard the expression noses in and fingers out that 92 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,520 sort of is the layman's expression for a board. 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,720 In other words, we ensure we govern, we oversight, etcetera 94 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,840 and we ensure that risk management is, as I said before, 95 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:05,120 within an appetite level that we that that we set for the 96 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,240 company. So in that sense, boards 97 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,920 increasingly recognize the impact of AI and everything that 98 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,880 we do should be in line with our business strategy, our 99 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,720 regulatory requirements, our legal requirements, etcetera. 100 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:27,280 And so we always make sure that how a management team is going 101 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:31,280 to execute to deliver a strategy is within those parameters. 102 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:38,840 Can you dive into that tension between the desire to make use 103 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:42,800 of that technology to achieve the organizational objectives 104 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:48,880 and strategy versus the restraining factors due to the 105 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,440 risks? I'll use a comparison that 106 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,520 should make it clear. Sports teams don't just play 107 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,880 offensive plays, they have defensive plays. 108 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,280 So in order to win the game, you go on offense and defense, right 109 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,160 offenses. We tried things new. 110 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:12,120 We looked at technology to help us meet or exceed our business 111 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,040 stated goals and objectives. And interestingly enough, when 112 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,920 board directors were asked by an organization called North 113 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,040 America Corporate Directors, what are the trends they worry 114 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,880 about most? Tech, AI and cyber, we're in the 115 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,280 top six along with geopolitical, climate, et cetera. 116 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,640 So given that when we think about that, we we worry about it 117 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,520 in a defensive play to ensure that as I said before, we're 118 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,480 staying in position in order to stay within risk appetite. 119 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,920 We also want to leverage those tools and we want to see our 120 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,000 companies and management leveraging the tools to 121 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,800 accelerate and or meet of the business strategy. 122 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,480 So there's the offensive and the defensive. 123 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,200 It's a 360 degree wide angle lens and it's critically 124 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,320 important that boards don't fall into one which could if it's 125 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,440 offensive, you could end up with a lot of privacy regulatory 126 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,920 etcetera issues or the other where we're trying to preserve 127 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,960 our way. We lock everything out. 128 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,360 We don't let we say we don't want to bring, for example, 129 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,440 generative AI tools into the company or machine learning, 130 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,600 earning artificial intelligence because we don't want to run the 131 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,400 risk. Nobody ever cost cut or risk 132 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,240 avoided their weight of prosperity. 133 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,919 So there is that balance and informed decision making is 134 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:38,200 critical, making sure that parameters are understood for 135 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,799 how is a company using AI? Do they have a group that says 136 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,960 we're looking at the use cases for what we want to do, What are 137 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,080 the risks of the use cases and what are the benefits of the use 138 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,600 cases? Those are very important things 139 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,480 for management and in large scale applications for boards to 140 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,120 worry about as well. So it's that balanced, informed 141 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,400 decision making, offensive and defensive place in order to win 142 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,360 the game. Please subscribe to the CXO Talk 143 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,960 newsletter. Just go to cxotalk.com, 144 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,000 subscribe to our YouTube channel. 145 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,640 We really have extraordinary shows that are coming up, great 146 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,320 discussions and you should be a part of it. 147 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,080 Folks. You know, to some extent it 148 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,720 sounds like the the time of the beginning of social media. 149 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,720 There needs to be a a kind of more thoughtful, in depth 150 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 approach that addresses the reality of how people live and 151 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,800 work. Technology is ubiquitous. 152 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,720 We've heard that before. It is. 153 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,760 We're led by what individuals do. 154 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,960 I would say a great proportion of the population now, at least 155 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,880 in the US are using, you know, ChatGPT, Dali, We've seen 156 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,880 students at school, you know, you using this to write papers, 157 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,240 etcetera. The exposure is there. 158 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,240 Therefore, when people go to the office, we don't turn that off, 159 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,760 right? And we look for tools enabled by 160 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,200 the tech organization, etcetera to be able to help deliver the 161 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,560 outcomes. I fundamentally believe people 162 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,960 always want to do the right thing, but they want to be 163 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,440 helpful and they want to be productive and they want to 164 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,520 deliver the outcomes or I should say, and they want to be 165 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,480 helpful, productive and deliver outcomes. 166 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,720 These tools enable that. So organizations need to say yes 167 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,720 and how versus no because right. And so how do you, and again, it 168 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,960 goes back to my offensive, defensive play, but within these 169 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,640 larger organizations, how do we deliver the capabilities to use 170 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,840 generative AI to create new content, right? 171 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,040 Text to photo, to create, you know, illustrations that could 172 00:10:55,040 --> 00:11:01,240 help new products, new services. So unfortunately, regulatory 173 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,280 lags behind sometimes the infrastructure of these large 174 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,680 companies, which is important by the way, to be able to renew and 175 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:13,000 refresh so that you've got good clean, concise date, not 176 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,040 concise, but good clean data accessible to be there. 177 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,600 All of that has to be in place. And so we need to think about 178 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,920 these tools are here, they are coming in. 179 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,080 If we don't enable them within the enterprise, you know, the 180 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,840 worst of all worlds is where people take data. 181 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,920 And I'm not saying anybody's done this, but we did see it 182 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,120 some years ago in with Samsung, you know, hopefully done it 183 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,280 inadvertently where people take data to the outside into these 184 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,520 tools to either create code or get insights and then bring it 185 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,280 back in. You have now exposed potentially 186 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,800 companies secure, secure information and confidential 187 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,680 information to the outside. So it has to be how do we bring 188 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,800 in not how do we create steel walls so people can't access 189 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,080 these tools, you know, for a period of 10 or 20 days. 190 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,160 I mean when I was at one of my former companies, I said we're 191 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,520 going to lock down for a period of 10 or 15 days. 192 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,280 But we let the workforce know this is coming. 193 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,800 We just need to bring in our own instance to ensure that we keep 194 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,640 the security and the safety end. And by the way, that is a really 195 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,280 important point, Michael. Communication on how, when, how 196 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,360 far, which data is available, etcetera, is super important 197 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,360 because absent communication, employees may not know what they 198 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,600 can or can't do or what they should or shouldn't do. 199 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,600 And so all of that is critically important. 200 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:45,400 I really like the not defaulting to know for so many years, 201 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,800 enterprise technologists, CIOs, just simply the default answer 202 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,640 if somebody wants something new is, well, no, we can't do it. 203 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,800 And then later, you know, we can take a look and see, well, maybe 204 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,840 we can do it, but but the default is no. 205 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,040 And so I really like your approach. 206 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,240 Why don't we jump to some questions from LinkedIn and 207 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,800 Twitter. There's a bunch that are coming 208 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,920 in and I encourage everybody who's watching ask your 209 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,360 questions because literally when else will you be able to ask 210 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,200 somebody like Andy Karaboutis pretty much whatever you want. 211 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,600 So take advantage of it. OK, So the first question comes 212 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:32,360 from Isaac Sokolik, who actually will be a guest coming up very 213 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,600 soon on CXO Talk. And he says, where are the 214 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,960 board's mindsets today on AI? Is it a gold rush for 215 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,240 competitive advantage or are they looking for pragmatic ROI? 216 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,360 Or how are boards relating to AI? 217 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,800 Software tech companies, I think are rushing for advantage. 218 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,960 No question. We're taking a look whether it's 219 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,280 the Microsoft's, the the Googles, etcetera and and 220 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,960 beyond. They're really taking a look at 221 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,640 how they can leverage AI for competitive advantage. 222 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:09,640 And I would imagine that the board conversations are full of 223 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,960 discussion around the opportunity as well as the risk. 224 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,280 But on that topic, as you move into what I would call the more 225 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,480 traditional businesses, I think the discussions are still 226 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,960 happening and some board members are quite bullish around what 227 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,120 are the advantages, what can we use, how can it help us. 228 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,720 That's the big thing. How does it help us top line, 229 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,840 bottom line, customer sat, employee satisfaction, you know, 230 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 job availability, etcetera. But it's an intellectual 231 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,960 curiosity that is actually something that I think is 232 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,840 necessary of any board member. And so the conversations are 233 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,360 there. Most boards are asking for more 234 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,240 training in some of the more traditional businesses, training 235 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,280 and understanding. Now, they don't need to 236 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,800 understand, you know, how you ingest data and all of the bits 237 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,840 and bytes, but they do need to understand the fundamentals 238 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,480 around, you know, what are the prerequisites. 239 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,000 As I said before, your infrastructure needs to be 240 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,320 simplified. Your data needs to be available. 241 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,320 And by the way, this is a huge opportunity for the, you know, 242 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,080 technical CIOCTOS in the room figure out and practice your 243 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,400 game on how to communicate because boards are asking for 244 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,040 the education. Please don't bury them. 245 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,840 Stroke us in a bunch of tech speak around neural networks, 246 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,160 etcetera, practice your game to really be able to explain these 247 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:44,280 the, the, the technology, the capability, the risks and how we 248 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800 could help your specific company and industry. 249 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,920 That may be the difference between true success and what 250 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,480 I'll call quick, faster success and versus a prolonged sort of 251 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,600 realization of value. So Isaac, it varies is what I 252 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,480 would say. I really want to emphasize a 253 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,960 point you just made around the importance of simple, 254 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,480 straightforward, clear communication and how important 255 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,560 that is. Absolutely, Michael, you know 256 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,080 what my teams would would recognize and probably smile at 257 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:22,400 the next phrase I'm going to make. 258 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,080 I always say, please start me with the forest before you take 259 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,360 me to photosynthesis, right? So understand the big umbrella, 260 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,280 even if when it's explaining artificial intelligence, it's 261 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,600 the overarching umbrella. And then there's machine 262 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,320 learning and there's, you know, all of the categories they 263 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,120 generative AI, gentic AI, et cetera. 264 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:47,200 And so when you take a board that is noses and fingers out, 265 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,840 that has to really figure out and synthesize a lot of 266 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,560 information, comprehend it and come into insight, they need to, 267 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,560 you have to ask yourself, what do they need to know? 268 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,280 And you know, what do they need? What do they need for informed 269 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,520 decision making? And so that's a big capability 270 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,760 that, you know, I'll put my CIOCTO hat on. 271 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,319 We as technology people need to work on in order to help the 272 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:18,480 boards be supportive and be able to balance that offensive, you 273 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,800 know, with defensive play. You know, I just this morning 274 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:28,119 saw a segment from an interview with Sam Altman, the founder CEO 275 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:35,320 of Open AI, and he said that among startup founders, 1 276 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:41,520 consistent trait among every single successful founder is the 277 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:48,760 ability to summarize and express what they're doing in 25 words 278 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,160 or less in a really clear way. Absolutely right. 279 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,280 You know, call it the elevator pitch, call it the, you know, in 280 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,880 10 seconds you've lost my attention call, you know, 281 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,840 whatever it is, but be very clear. 282 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,720 And you know, there's the old advantage of what do I want to 283 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,880 say versus what do others need to understand? 284 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,840 And by the way, who are they? That's super important. 285 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,560 So I can't emphasize enough and and it's with any big 286 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,360 breakthrough tech or any big concept, even if it isn't tech, 287 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:24,160 you have to be able to really communicate what are we trying 288 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,800 to do? You know, how are we going to do 289 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,520 it? And then I'll quote Simon Sinek 290 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,160 and connect people to the Y, right. 291 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,160 And so that doesn't, that doesn't change for board members 292 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,640 either. Let's jump to the next question 293 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,280 from LinkedIn and keep your questions coming on LinkedIn and 294 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,120 on Twitter. And this is from Deepak Adina 295 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,240 Reyana. And Deepak says, how do you 296 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,240 measure the success of AI initiatives at the board level? 297 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,480 And what metrics or indicators do you rely on to ensure these 298 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,400 technologies are delivering both value and alignment to the 299 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:09,560 company's long term vision? As with any initiative, major 300 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,400 program or effort or transformation that we do at, 301 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,760 you know, a major, bigger, big or small companies, there is an 302 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,200 expected outcome. And when you embark on something 303 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,200 like this, which is a huge investment for the company from 304 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,880 and I don't just mean you know monetary, but resource culture 305 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:34,760 change, effort, discomfort, etcetera, there's an outcome 306 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,000 that's expected. So measures are very simple. 307 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,760 Trident 2 return on investments, return on equity, return for 308 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,960 what we said we're going to do. How do we measure the successes 309 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,880 we're going KPISI know these are not, you know, big and sexy and 310 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,880 different, but they're fundamentally when we're doing 311 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,240 something that's that big of an investment, what is the return 312 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,480 we expect? And are we getting it in the 313 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,880 time frame in which we expected, right. 314 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,200 So being able to measure your KPIs, your outcomes and output, 315 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,480 the output steps to get to your outcome, etcetera, none of those 316 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,080 things have changed. I wish I could give a a fancier 317 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,440 answer than that, but fundamentally that's what we 318 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,200 look for. But very important to be clear 319 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,320 at the outset, what are we getting for this? 320 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,240 And sometimes there are hard measures most often and 321 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,200 sometimes there's also soft measures or soft outcomes, I 322 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,240 would say improve satisfaction from employees. 323 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,400 Those are real, they're important. 324 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,360 So if we state them and do what we say and say what we do, 325 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,840 that's where we look at these outcomes. 326 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:49,840 And sometimes an outcome could be learning and saying only, as 327 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,760 I said earlier, 10% of the organization is expert. 328 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,880 We want to get to 20. That's an outcome. 329 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,320 So it might not be monetary, but it is, you know, along the scale 330 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,240 of what we said we want to do in order to adopt something that 331 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,560 could then provide stronger returns. 332 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600 And this is from Cheryl Folks, Bendy. 333 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,680 And she has a question about this relationship between 334 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,880 management and the board, especially when it comes to AI. 335 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,800 And she says this following on Deepak's question, are you even 336 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:28,400 measuring AI initiatives discreetly or leaving that to 337 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,080 the management team and sticking to business outcomes that AI 338 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:39,800 might be a component of? When the initiatives are big and 339 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,680 the investment is significant, or once again it's a significant 340 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,200 change, like we're trying to drive a different culture, 341 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,520 organizational, you know, adoption of AI. 342 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,120 The board will get involved and we will take a look at it. 343 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,160 And you know, overall we look at the maturity of artificial 344 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,960 intelligence. What we don't do is go in and 345 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,680 look at every artificial intelligence initiative and say 346 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,800 how are each of these going percentage wise and things like 347 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,480 that. That's for management to do. 348 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,280 Again, I can't emphasize enough day-to-day operation and 349 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,800 execution of initiatives to deliver on the strategy is the 350 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,280 job of management. The Board assesses the risk, the 351 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,640 Board assesses the progress to commitments and the outcomes, 352 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,400 etcetera, as it relates to sort of, you know, the big 353 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,960 overarching business strategy of the company. 354 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,000 It's a clear distinction, but it can also be murky at times. 355 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:47,360 And, and how do you decide when you need to kind of drill in 356 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,640 more? Because at some point, you know, 357 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,160 the board member may have to get involved, you may be able to 358 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,240 offer advice or you know, if there could be many, many 359 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,840 different reasons, how do you balance that? 360 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,720 How do you make that choice? I get asked a lot about, you 361 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,400 know, when do you know the difference and when to do it. 362 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,880 It depends by company and by board, right? 363 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,160 And it depends, it's steered by risk, right? 364 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:22,200 So if it's not big enough to, for a board to, to, to, to worry 365 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,480 about in comparison to other things on the agenda or 366 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,600 happening, it's a very subjective, when is it time? 367 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,880 You know, there a lot of people ask me how often should the 368 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,320 boards get a review of AI initiatives? 369 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,000 I don't know. It depends on are those AI 370 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,800 initiatives integral and core to achieving the business strategy 371 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,240 on the table. If that's the case and there's a 372 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,800 time frame and a dollar amount and an importance level to it 373 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,000 because it's, it's the pivot point that would that needs to 374 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,760 be done to get us there, then I would say the board visits it 375 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,600 quite a bit. But if it's not and it's sort of 376 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,080 then we could get it in a pre read or we could get it just in 377 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,440 an update or it could be infrequent. 378 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,760 So it depends. I wish I could say there was a 379 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,600 recipe behind it, but there isn't. 380 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,000 Yeah, I can imagine there these are complex issues that will 381 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,400 vary according to the company culture and the situation. 382 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,840 That's right. In general, we're because we do 383 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,440 track, are we staying abreast of technological advancement? 384 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,160 So even if there isn't a specific initiative, we, we do 385 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,040 we need to ask leading questions like how is the adoption of AI 386 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,560 tools? What are we using it for? 387 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,280 What are some of the use cases that we're going after? 388 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,640 Is it inventory management, for example, and you know, in a 389 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:55,240 retail space, are we using it to monitor manufacturing quality 390 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,000 and adaptive learning? Certainly if you're in the auto 391 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 industry, the autonomous vehicle, I would say those 392 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,120 boards are probably, and I'm not on an automotive board. 393 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,480 So it's an opinion, but I would say those boards are probably 394 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,840 talking quite a bit about the artificial intelligence that is, 395 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,960 you know, self learning around autonomous driving if they have 396 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,960 autonomous vehicles. So again, it's it is a very 397 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,120 subjective to the industry and the company. 398 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,760 This is from Arsalan Khan. He's a regular listener to CXO 399 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:36,480 Talk and he that says this, he says as tech becomes more and 400 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,640 more a part of our lives, do boards need a tech advisor only 401 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,040 or a permanent tech board member who is fit to do this? 402 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,080 The CIO, the chief digital officer, the CTO. 403 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,280 So if you can address that. And I think it also gets to the 404 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,960 larger issue of technology capability on the board. 405 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,360 The board of directors have what's called a skills matrix 406 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,240 and I would say all public company and I think private 407 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,920 company as well, boards have these. 408 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,360 And a skills matrix is around a company assesses what do they 409 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,640 need, what are the capabilities they need in their board. 410 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:22,000 So for example, financial literacy, financial expertise is 411 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,400 one of the metrics, right? It may be sales and marketing, 412 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,800 it may be product development, etcetera. 413 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,480 On the skills matrix, more and more we are saying 414 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,040 cybersecurity, digital transformation, etcetera. 415 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,440 I suspect we're going to start saying tech savvy, artificial 416 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,840 intelligence and a a deepening of that. 417 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,560 To have a token member on a board that says there is our 418 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,920 digital tech person is a start, but it's not sufficient in my 419 00:26:53,920 --> 00:27:00,400 opinion because technology impacts every part of companies, 420 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,120 whether it's from, you know, customer satisfaction 421 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:09,480 measurement to product development to it is ubiquitous. 422 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:16,000 So in my opinion, we have to have tech savvy board members 423 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,200 sort of permeating the board. That doesn't mean that they need 424 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,760 to know how to do microprocess, you know, programming or that 425 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,160 they need to, you know, do a Python program. 426 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,600 But what it does mean is they need to be abreast. 427 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,840 We need to be abreast of what are the technological 428 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,880 advancements, how do they disrupt, how do they augment, 429 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:43,560 what risks do they pose, what opportunities and benefits for 430 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,400 our company and industry. And that broad based technology 431 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,760 as I call it, I think is imperative if not for every 432 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,000 member of the board, for majority members of the board. 433 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,000 And you know, it's at one point many years ago on another board, 434 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,400 someone said, well, thank goodness we have Andy on this 435 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,280 board because she's watching out for that. 436 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,600 Well, that I'm not sure that that is, you know, it may be 437 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,520 back then, but it's certainly not the right mindset now. 438 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,320 So tech savvy is really important. 439 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,400 And again, I'm going to reiterate, not everybody needs 440 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,360 to go get a degree in computer science or computer engineering, 441 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,480 but being abreast, staying in soon intellectually curious, 442 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,720 learning, etcetera. I myself have joined, you know, 443 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,760 the advisor of the awesome company called I cream tree dot 444 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,280 AI. It's an artificial intelligence 445 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,040 company that helps even though I have a computer science degree 446 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,440 and I'm tech savvy, but you know, it's out there helping 447 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,960 augment human intelligence for utilities industries. 448 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,160 That's how I stay abreast. So even people that have the 449 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,680 degree can be not tech savvy. So it takes, you know, I'll use 450 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,320 it, takes a village. That's how I feel about it. 451 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:05,120 What about the stereotype of board members who are old 452 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:11,680 school, have very little comfort or understanding of technology, 453 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,120 who are used to having secretaries maybe in the past? 454 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,560 Who don't have the background? What? 455 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960 What do you do if you're a board and you have esteemed members 456 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,240 who are in that situation? I'm an optimist and a glass half 457 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,440 full, but I I would say they're retiring because the pressures 458 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,520 are such that you can't really. And I'm honored and pleased to 459 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,640 be on the boards I'm on because I hand on heart don't see that. 460 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:47,080 But I think they're retiring because they you just cannot be 461 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,720 an advocate for and do your duty of loyalty and duty of care that 462 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:58,400 you need to do as a board member if you refuse to sort of stay 463 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,360 abreast of your inner industry and the technology that could 464 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,560 impact it. All right, so that problem is a 465 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,320 problem that is taking care of itself over time, essentially. 466 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,800 That's my view, yes. This would be an excellent time 467 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,080 to subscribe to the CXO Talk newsletter. 468 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,600 Go to cxotalk.com and subscribe to the newsletter and we'll 469 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440 notify you about upcoming events just like this, which we do all 470 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,160 the time. So this question is from Chris 471 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,200 Peterson. He's another regular listener, 472 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:40,440 and he says for those mature AI adopters, how do they measure 473 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:46,440 positive and negative impacts of the tool and product choices 474 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,160 that they make? Tools and product choices are 475 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:54,040 not a decision for the board. So I will just say right off the 476 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,040 bat, the board may ask questions of, you know, why did you bring 477 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,400 an instance of Chat GPTN or Dolly or, or, but it, it is not 478 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,480 a question for the board. As for management and what they 479 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,080 choose to adopt, I, you know, I can assume and believe that they 480 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,840 make that determination based on the benefits, the availability, 481 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,000 the costs for sure. And that is something, you know, 482 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,240 boards will ask. It's how much we're allocating 483 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:29,880 and, and the cost of, of AI tools, the risks and the 484 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,880 openness. Is it open source or is it not? 485 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,000 So for companies that are doing that, and I apologize, I'm, you 486 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,520 know, sort of going between what the board would do and what 487 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720 management would do. I assume they're doing, you 488 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,880 know, balancing the equation as we did whenever we bought other 489 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,480 kinds of tools around all of those parameters, commercial 490 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,680 relationship viability, durability, you know, as I said 491 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,880 before, price performance, etcetera. 492 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 Here's a question from Lisa Pratico. 493 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:11,120 And she says AI used everywhere is showing a negative impact on 494 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320 sustainability with energy and water consumption. 495 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,840 Our boards or to what degree are boards concerned about balancing 496 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:27,800 the use of AI against negative ESG outcomes or to ensure that 497 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,240 with that there are positive ESG outcomes? 498 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,520 As with any new technology, Lisa, there is what I call 499 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,320 swings and roundabouts. And so boards recognize that 500 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,520 while we have our ESG commitments and they remain 501 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,560 strong and we want to adopt the new technology, we have to 502 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,440 monitor and understand both. And there may be a time where 503 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,160 one is, you know, sort of, you know, usurping the other. 504 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,000 But we monitor and we see growing pains and in this 505 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:08,480 technology is inevitable. And so we I can't say that we 506 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,080 sit and measure this is how much AI and compute power we're using 507 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,800 and this is the offset. But we are in general terms 508 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,320 watching that as board directors because we have ESG commitments 509 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,960 and we have commitments on how to improve and do more with with 510 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,960 less and provide better offerings. 511 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,520 So it's not a one for one, but I think in the rounds it will all 512 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,520 come back to we have a wide angle lens and a 360° view on 513 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,720 these things. Andy, as a board member, you 514 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,880 don't directly have your hand on the rudder of a ship. 515 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,560 You are giving guidance and then there are then management is 516 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,160 actually steering the ship in a in a more direct way. 517 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:05,560 Is that frustrating for you at all, the fact that that you have 518 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,560 this indirect role in terms of what the organization does as 519 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,600 indirect role as opposed to a very direct leadership 520 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,520 management role? When I stepped down from my last 521 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,159 operational role, people said are you retiring? 522 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:23,400 And I said, no, I'm rewiring. And good friend of mine actually 523 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,679 coined that phrase, so I won't take credit for it. 524 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,239 And when you rewire, you realize that you're going into a 525 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,320 different set of roles. And by the way, I've been doing 526 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,360 boards for 10 years. So it wasn't sort of, I stopped 527 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,639 full time and went into boards. I've been doing them since 2015. 528 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,600 But you, it's a different role. And with every new role, you ask 529 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,040 yourself, what is my accountability, What is my 530 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,800 responsibility? What is it that I'm bound to 531 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,440 have? You heard me say duty of 532 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,680 loyalty, duty of care, etcetera. And how do I best do that to 533 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,000 show up well into my boards. Now, I will tell you, I went 534 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,720 through growing pains. I've been quoted as saying if I 535 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,240 could go back to my first board, I would give them all an apology 536 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,120 because it was that transition of management where I wanted to 537 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,840 know why are you doing this, etcetera to, you know, abort 538 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,240 your position. I'm going to use your boat, your 539 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:21,080 boat analogy. It was an excellent one. 540 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,840 Management is driving boat, but the board is overseeing and the 541 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,400 board doesn't come in, you know, way too late to find out. 542 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,440 We thought management was in the Atlantic and they're off in the 543 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,880 Pacific Ocean, right? It could be more, it could be 544 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040 slight course corrections. What the questions that we ask 545 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,520 and the oversight that we provide are, are we on track 546 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,400 for, you know, have we delivered, is the business 547 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,920 strategy, are the financials the way that we expected them coming 548 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,600 in? And we ensure that we're 549 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,560 delivering to the commitments made and we help course correct. 550 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,960 Whether it's succession planning, whether it's, you 551 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,360 know, looking at the allocation of spends, whether it's we have 552 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,160 to look at competitive pressures and things have changed. 553 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,960 Therefore maybe we need to do a course correction. 554 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,360 So there is the pilot that is piloting or the captain that is 555 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,240 driving, but then there's also the control tower that is 556 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,080 monitoring. And so it the control tower 557 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,440 plays its position, knows what it does, and has to synthesize a 558 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,000 lot of information quickly to be able to be helpful and stay in 559 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,360 the role of the RIN. So staying in the role is a key 560 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,600 part of success for a for a board and individual board 561 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,000 members. Yes, yes. 562 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,120 Mario Garcia asks. He says AI is a game changer, 563 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,600 but aligning strategy with responsibility, that's the real 564 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,640 challenge. What do you think companies are 565 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,120 missing? First of all, understanding the 566 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,360 true power of AI. So education, I don't know if 567 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,280 they're missing, but certainly this is what companies need to 568 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,000 truly understand artificial intelligence capability and 569 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,800 tools and offerings from software and tech companies and 570 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:25,720 what they could provide. Clear time of initiatives to the 571 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,880 outcomes and the strategy of a company and what it's trying to 572 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,880 achieve. Uber importance measuring and 573 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,760 ensuring that you don't have to course correct cause course 574 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,200 correction is good. Staying with the strategy or 575 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,640 with the tool or capability that isn't working is just throwing 576 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,920 good money after bad and sunk cost is sunk cost. 577 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,760 So there's a clarity of your strategy, the deliverables to 578 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,040 get to your strategy, the outcomes that must happen, the 579 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,320 tools and the, and the programs that are going to help deliver 580 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,120 that and what I call stringing the thread through all of that. 581 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,200 I think if there's anything, and I'll go back to your direct 582 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,640 question of what companies might be missing, it's really 583 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,200 understanding the capabilities of AI since I mean given that 584 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,680 topic and what can or can it not provide for the achievement of 585 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,920 the business strategy of of the organization? 586 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,520 Let's jump to another question, this time again on LinkedIn from 587 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,440 Demetrios Berampas. And he says, and this is a 588 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,280 really good question, he says, do board members face the AI 589 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,880 change as an upskilling necessity or as a more holistic 590 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,400 culture change? It is an upskilling. 591 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,320 As I said before, I think as boards are evolving and sort of 592 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,080 realizing the dramatic change that tech, cyber and AR are, are 593 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:02,560 bringing, that board skills, board awareness and education 594 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,520 need to also, you know, sort of move commensurately. 595 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,960 It is also a big culture change. It is a culture change within 596 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,800 the company. Technology is now not just for 597 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,040 programmers, right? I'm not going to make a bold 598 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,280 statement and say you never need programmers anymore, but you are 599 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080 moving further from that direction and away from the 600 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,840 direction of programmers too. Anybody can be a citizen 601 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,600 developer getting the output that they need or or more people 602 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,680 can. I don't want to offend anybody 603 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,480 here on viewership. So I think it's both. 604 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,720 It's the composition, the focus of the board, it's the 605 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:44,000 composition and focus education and management team, and it is a 606 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,840 big culture change across the spectrum from employees all the 607 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,160 way to the board. And this is a question from 608 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,040 Lizbeth Shaw, who says How are boards helping their companies 609 00:39:55,040 --> 00:40:02,040 address the ethical use of AI and trustworthy AI, especially 610 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,160 since doing so may cut into maximizing profit? 611 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,840 I'm very proud and I'm not, you know, not just the boards that 612 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,520 I'm on, but but most boards ethics Trump's profits, right? 613 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,720 I will just say that it's it is a darn shame when we find the 614 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:23,720 one or two unicorns that don't, you know, go operate that way. 615 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:28,200 Ethics Trump's profits. So how do boards ensure ethical 616 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,600 usage Through audits, through reviews, through stakeholder 617 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,560 interviews, through third party assessments? 618 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,880 It's, you know, we do this, you know, on many fronts around 619 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,240 strategy, etcetera, around financial controls. 620 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,800 You know, we have our internal audits, we have the three 621 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,760 stages, first, second, third line of threat vectors of, you 622 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,200 know, financial controls. Well, it's this, it should be 623 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,960 the same. And I would say is turning in 624 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,680 that direction of three lines of defense around AI. 625 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,360 Some big organizations, I believe company Nestle, I 626 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,680 believe does this where they have an AI ethics group. 627 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,120 So the board asks these questions of management and make 628 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,280 sure that these controls are in place. 629 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,880 Do we have an Ethics Committee? What's the latest audit? 630 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,440 Is our data secure? You know, how do we know we 631 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,560 don't have biases in these programs by asking these 632 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,760 questions and forcing sort of that the responses, that's how 633 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,000 we ensure and make ourselves comfortable. 634 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:37,360 And you know, we look at, we look at data associated with 635 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,760 that, that in fact we're staying ethical. 636 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,480 OK. And on a related question, 637 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:49,800 Justin Menin on LinkedIn raises again the issue of the critical 638 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,240 role of board involvement in navigating roadblocks to AI 639 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,520 adoption while maintaining an appropriate risk profile. 640 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,640 So can you just elaborate a little bit on this point, which 641 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:10,520 really is how can boards ensure innovation while at the same 642 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,280 time not taking the ostrich approach and hiding from change? 643 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,680 The easiest way is we ask the question what will it take, What 644 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,040 will it take to be able to adopt artificial intelligence and AI 645 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,560 tools in order to achieve X outcome or Y outcome? 646 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:34,000 And if and then the board tries to dedicate resource or helps 647 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,080 management, supports management and dedicating resource or funds 648 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:44,240 capital allocation to remove the roadblocks to achieve the 649 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:48,120 outcomes not open-ended though, how do we get AI tools and is 650 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,080 not something the board would say, right. 651 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,960 But if for example, we are saying we want in you know, to 652 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,000 improve inventory management and reduce shrinkage, for example in 653 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,320 a retail company, we would say what would it take to bring 654 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,320 tools and to do that management needs to be prepared and again, 655 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,040 very much a two way St. Michael, but management needs to 656 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,160 be prepared with our infrastructure is legacy. 657 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,880 Here's what we need. This is what it would take, or 658 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,160 these are the tools that we need to invest in or these are the 659 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,560 resources that we need to go higher or get help with, right? 660 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,360 But it's how do we achieve, what are the roadblocks we can help 661 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,920 remove and then setting the support structure up for 662 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,600 management to do that. But again, not just to bring in 663 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,800 AI tools, but to achieve the outcome of what these tools 664 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,280 could promise for the stakeholders. 665 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,440 Correct me if I'm wrong, It seems in a sense what you're 666 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:46,640 saying is the board's responsibility is to drive the 667 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,760 organizational agenda at the same time balancing competing 668 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,920 forces ultimately? It's to agree to the 669 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:03,480 organizational agenda and the strategy of the company and then 670 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:08,160 to see how the board, what is needed from the board to support 671 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,240 removing those roadblocks while constantly monitoring that we 672 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,640 stay within risk appetite. The way that you're describing 673 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,920 it, if I can be totally blunt, it sounds like kind of corporate 674 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,880 speak. That's pretty much what I said. 675 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,840 Or am I missing? What am I missing here? 676 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,240 You missed the risk appetite. OK. 677 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,880 So you said the board will remove things, but the board 678 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,520 will there's a check in. Look, I'll take the corporate 679 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,720 speak out of it and just, I love that you called that out, 680 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,400 Michael, but it is, there's checks and balances. 681 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,680 So it's not. Yeah, go it's again, I'll go 682 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,600 back to what I said 40 minutes ago. 683 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,040 There's an offensive play, but we have to make sure that we 684 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,320 stay within our regulatory, legal, ethical boundaries. 685 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,360 And I'll always repeat that. Sorry that. 686 00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,360 Yeah. Very helpful. 687 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,920 So checks and balances is a very essential element of this. 688 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,720 Absolutely, absolutely. So if I, if I'm asked as a board 689 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,680 member, Andy, would you give us your view and opinion on, you 690 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,840 know, ChatGPT And it's great. It's this, it'll do this and 691 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,680 what are we training and we used, you know, 6,000,000 data 692 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,600 sets and all the rest of it. That's fantastic. 693 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,840 But in the same breath, I'm going to say how, you know, what 694 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,080 are we doing to ensure that corporate data does not get out 695 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,680 as we're as we're delivering on this. 696 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,640 I can't emphasize it enough. I know I've said it about 12 697 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,480 times, so forgive me. Well, it's clearly an essential 698 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,600 part of the the board role. And so it's great that you're 699 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,360 emphasizing it. We have a number of questions 700 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:43,720 left. I'm going to ask you to answer 701 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:48,920 these really quickly because I want to have time to share 702 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:54,920 advice on how technology leaders can become board members so 703 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,240 very, very quickly From Twitter, from Arsalan Khan. 704 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:03,160 Again, strategy without execution is hallucination. 705 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,120 Sometimes execution is a fraction of what strategy 706 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,160 wanted. What do boards do? 707 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:17,720 We make sure that the plans for execution are sufficient and 708 00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:21,080 enough for to achieve the strategy. 709 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,040 And by the way, some of those are not just tech plans or AI 710 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,440 plans. So this goes to threading the 711 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:35,440 needle strategy, strategic, you know, initiatives to achieve 712 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,040 that strategy, that outcome execution being in line with 713 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,320 those initiatives to achieve the strategy. 714 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,800 I know I'm very something making it sound very simplistic. 715 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,680 Quite often companies have strategic goals but don't have 716 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,600 the right strategy to achieve them, which means they don't 717 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,160 have the right execution focus and and programs. 718 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,880 But it's it's a thread, the needle. 719 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,160 Let's go back to LinkedIn very quickly from again from Isaac 720 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,760 Sacolic. Are boards diving into how 721 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,160 effective management is in investing in leaders and 722 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:18,160 employees for training around AI and effectiveness on change 723 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,720 management? Or is this left to be a 724 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:25,800 management issue? If we have set up the outcomes 725 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,240 and the commitments and the strategy again that we're trying 726 00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,760 to achieve, there is a set of capabilities, programs, 727 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,640 initiatives, efforts, culture changes, etcetera that are 728 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,720 deemed that are have been set forth to achieve that you 729 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:41,800 measure if those things are being achieved. 730 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,720 Boards will not go in and say you know just sort of out Hock, 731 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,000 how many AI specialists do you have? 732 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,040 We will say do we have enough specialists to achieve this? 733 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,400 Do you have the workforce of the future? 734 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,040 Are they located in the right places? 735 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,080 Do they have the right reward mechanism? 736 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,160 Are there objectives aligned? We will ask those questions. 737 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,160 We don't go except for the chief executive. 738 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,400 We don't hire and and you know sort of fire the, you know, 739 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,400 management team etcetera. We have a lot of input, but we 740 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,800 make sure that companies are resourced just the same way. 741 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,200 We make sure that capital allocation on a financial 742 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,880 perspective is done, you know, sufficiently to achieve the 743 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,560 outcomes that we're trying to achieve. 744 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:34,480 Again, you've got the the checks and balances to make sure that 745 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:41,240 resources and people are in place who can carry through the 746 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,440 the vision and the strategy of the organization. 747 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,800 It's exactly right again, noses and fingers out, sniffing it, 748 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,920 ensuring that sort of thing we don't execute. 749 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,520 We have a question from Cheryl folks. 750 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,120 Bendy again, who says What do you look for in a company when 751 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,160 you're considering joining a board? 752 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,840 First of all, is it an industry that I am interested in and can 753 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:13,280 contribute to? Is it a company that I believe I 754 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,720 could am interested in and can contribute to and can benefit 755 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,720 from my expertise? Is it a board that I can work 756 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,200 with? I look at by name and 757 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:30,000 background, each board member to see is that a board that I can 758 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,160 learn from and contribute to? Is it an ethical company? 759 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,120 I look at the financials, you know, sometimes they're great. 760 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,960 Sometimes you know, you, you can find opportunity to grow that, 761 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,760 but that's not typically how I the, you know, a key criteria 762 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,800 for, for assessing it. And so through that, you start 763 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,720 realizing, is it a place where if I go play on that field, I 764 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:58,720 can actually contribute and, you know, give good guidance, good 765 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:01,400 insight and where my capabilities are needed. 766 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,160 I consider it from my personal experience, I consider it a 767 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,640 duty. And so and some, you know, an 768 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,840 honor, if you will, to be on a board. 769 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,520 And those are the things that I think about. 770 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:18,720 What advice do you have to business leaders inside an 771 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:23,000 organization on being effective in working with the board? 772 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:30,400 So I have seen management teams that try to manage the board and 773 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,160 to some degree there is a level in that collaboration where you 774 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,200 need to manage each other's expectations, etcetera. 775 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,360 But for me it's around collaboration. 776 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,240 What does the board need to do to do their job? 777 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,600 What does the board need to do to be effective at, you know, 778 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,120 their oversight and governance and to help give us guidance? 779 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,200 That's what I would look at as an in a management team. 780 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,160 Quite often we look at board members when they ask questions. 781 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,200 Oh my gosh, the board asked for this. 782 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,840 Relax, right? Why is the board asking? 783 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,200 What is the board looking for? And so just like this is going 784 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,600 to sound very trite, Michael, but just like in a good 785 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,240 relationship, you want to know if someone asks you something, 786 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,400 don't go on the offensive or defensive, but what is it 787 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,400 they're looking for and how do I help achieve that so that they 788 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,560 can help me through oversight to deliver that? 789 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,560 That's how I would view it. So really understanding, trying 790 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,520 to understand the board members perspective. 791 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,800 What do they need, and how can I, as a member of the leadership 792 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,160 or the management of the company, help that board member 793 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,720 achieve whatever it is that they're looking for? 794 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,680 That's right. And it's quite often it's fair 795 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,560 to say, why do you ask? Because it could be something 796 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,400 completely different than they what they might interpret. 797 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,600 It could be just a curiosity, it could be some other, other 798 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,120 reason. Or the board member may say, you 799 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,560 know, I, I can't really divulge or what I just, you know, I, I, 800 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,400 I need to understand this, this bit of information. 801 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,240 But typically we go through CEO for that. 802 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:04,920 What advice do you have for technology leaders, CIOSCTOS and 803 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,200 so forth who want to become a board member? 804 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,680 Recognize there's no recipe. So if someone says to you go do 805 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,800 this, go do this, go do this, right. 806 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,200 I've seen that quite often it is not a recipe. 807 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,080 There is chemistry to bring people on boards. 808 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:25,520 There is experiences that that you know certain companies are 809 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,680 looking for. I mentioned capability matrix, 810 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,640 etcetera. But here is what I would 811 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:35,760 recommend to every tech person, figure out business, understand 812 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,480 if you're going for a particular company or in an industry, start 813 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:43,360 understanding the industry. Your trade may be technology and 814 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,920 that's what you bring, but you're going on a board from 815 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,600 governance oversight, fiduciary responsibility, your, you know, 816 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:57,240 financial literacy, etcetera. So hone those skills and bring 817 00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:01,600 yourself, you know, up sort of into that broader umbrella and 818 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,200 lose the tech speak. Quite often we are so impressed 819 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,160 with ourselves on all of the deep technology that we know and 820 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,880 we should be very proud of it. But that is not the level that 821 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,600 boards operate at. You know, occasionally your tech 822 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,120 boards may want to go deep into things, but you really need to 823 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,480 raise your game up a level. You mentioned this earlier can 824 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,240 very quickly. Can you give us an example to 825 00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:34,520 make this point concrete? If I'm a CIACIO and I'm talking 826 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,480 with the board, how much technical detail should I 827 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,480 provide? Enough so that they get the 828 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:47,840 picture of benefit risk required, you know, dollar 829 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,160 allocation if that's what's being asked for, and so that 830 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,720 they can do their job. So recognize the board's job, 831 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,560 right? Recognize their oversight and 832 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,720 governance. What do they need to know in 833 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,920 order to do their their job well, right. 834 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,200 And so I use a lot and I'll say something else. 835 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,200 I use a lot of analogies and comparisons, right. 836 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,280 You know, we were trying to describe threat vectors and you 837 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,280 know how people can infiltrate what the bad actors do, for 838 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,680 example, on cyber. And so, you know, draw some 839 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,280 analogies. I used to say if you put a lock 840 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,360 on the the front door, but the jewels are sitting on the table, 841 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,840 then not good. So maybe you have a safe and 842 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,360 then you have, you know it under a a, you know, the boards in the 843 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,280 kitchen. That's defense in depth. 844 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,800 So I would explain it in terms that they could. 845 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,800 It's not dumbing it down. It's just relating it to 846 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,400 something they know. That's an interesting point. 847 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,680 It's not dumbing it down, but it's presenting it within the 848 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:56,280 context of what's important to them and where their focus lies. 849 00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,680 Right. OK, well with that we are out of 850 00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,760 time. So I want to say an enormous 851 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:11,040 thank you to Adriana Karabutis, who is a multi industry board 852 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,120 member. She's held senior leadership 853 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,720 roles at large organizations like Dell, Biogen and National 854 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:20,200 Grid. Andy, thank you so much for 855 00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,720 being with us and sharing your expertise with us today. 856 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,200 Thank you, Michael. It's a pleasure being here. 857 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,560 I appreciate you having me back. And a huge thank you to 858 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,560 everybody who asked such amazing questions and who we're who's 859 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:36,120 watching today. Before you go, please subscribe 860 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:40,080 to the CXO Talk newsletter. Just go to cxotalk.com, 861 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,120 subscribe to our YouTube channel. 862 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,760 We really have extraordinary shows that are coming up, great 863 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,840 discussions and you should be a part of it, folks. 864 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,840 Thank you so much everybody. I hope you have a great day and 865 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,720 we will see you again next time.