Hey y'all, welcome back to the Vet Files.
Today, Gretel and I are joined by MJ, who is a current first
year at LSU with me, and we're going to talk a little bit about
remediating and options when things don't really quite go
according to plan first year for whatever reason.
We're going to talk about kind of the published resources for
LSU and Mizzou specifically, but overall, we're going to talk
about MJ's experience. Introduce to yourself.
MJ Hi, my name's MJI. Went to undergrad at LSU.
This is Sharky. He's participating.
I went to undergraduate LSUI, was in the pre vet program the
the 3 + 1. I got into vet school when I was
20 and it was pretty much like a straight A student my whole
life. And then everything that felt
like the world was ending. It gets better.
But yeah, I'm interested in small animal practice,
particularly feline medicine, and yeah, that's pretty much it.
So let's talk a little bit about remediating.
What is it kind of how does it work?
Because we were talking, we were talking about it before the
episode, but it's really confusing.
There's not much out about it online if you're just
researching it as a student. I was trying to look up, you
know, our handbook and it was a little bit unclear even then.
So remediating is essentially the terminology used at at least
LSU for retaking whatever year of school you failed and failed
could mean you didn't pass clinical skills, failed could
mean you got AD plus at LSU is the lowest you can go 1D plus,
not 2. And then also, if you fall below
a 2.0 GPA average, you are qualified for remediation.
If you get an F immediate dismissal and you have to
reapply. But that's not what we're
talking about. We're talking about remediating,
which is kind of in between between having to reapply.
So yeah, MJ, would you want to talk a little bit about your
experience? I remediated at LSU, You know,
it was an experience. They didn't pass clinical
skills, the OSKI specifically, which for people who don't have
it or call it the OSKI, it's basically it's a skills exam.
I can't remember. I know it's like something,
something skills clinical exam. That's what it stands for.
And you basically get 5 minutes to perform a task in front of
somebody who was grading you actively.
It's very stressful. You know, you kind of go in
blind. You don't really get to know
exactly what the stations are until you get there.
And you know, I was just going through, you know, it's just
some personal stuff. And like there's nothing to be
ashamed of in that regard. You know, even and even if it
was like a whoopsie, I didn't do really great on something.
There's no shame in that either. But yeah, that's specifically
what happened to me was that I just had some stuff going on
outside of school. I kind of distracted me from my
school work, so studying got away from me.
I also got my first like F on a test in anatomy and so like, I
that was like, Oh my God. Like I was clutching my pearls.
But yeah, whenever I had to remediate the oski, I literally
felt like the world was ending. I was like, I'm, you know, it's,
it's not going to go well, like I'm not, I don't belong here.
You know, I, I screwed up really bad.
Like I just maybe I should just do something else.
And like, I just kind of reflected on it and they, they
offered me remediation and I was like, OK, I definitely want to
do this. Like I want to do remediation.
You know, I studied for it, probably could have studied a
little bit better because I still had some stuff going on
outside. So I was like, OK, well at least
I now know like what's going to happen going into it.
And then I didn't, I didn't pass the remediation either.
So then I had to be readmitted with the next class of first
years. Remediation for the OSKI
specifically is they will give you a whole new set of stations
and you basically just retake it.
So it's just the one test over the summer.
I'm not exactly sure how it works for the other classes.
I'm pretty sure for like anatomy you would have to go in and take
all of the the lab portion again and I think you probably retake
some of the tests, but I'm not 100% sure.
Yeah, thank you. It's just kind of hard to talk
about because I also have heard people to my face say just just
crazy things like once, even once you're in that school,
people are like, oh, if you didn't have a 3.8 GPA in
undergrad, you don't deserve to be here.
Or if you can't pass this, you don't deserve to be here.
And that's not what that is at all.
I just don't believe in that entire rhetoric.
We had Doctor Wade on a couple episodes ago and she's awesome
and she's very public about it, but she had failed her Navly her
first try and she's an awesome doctor.
And it's just something that I don't appreciate.
All of the negative narrative things happen.
Even if it was just genuine academic like oh I didn't get it
or I needed to retry, I failed OCAM 2.
I never passed OCAM 2 because LSU didn't require it and I'd
already accepted my acceptance. I never even took OCAM 2.
Yeah I don't think LSU undergrad, I don't think y'all
take OCAM 2 not in the pre vet program.
No. OK.
Because Auburn it was required to graduate and I mean I had to
have AD in it, so I had AD in. So it was fine.
I got my credit but most vet schools require it.
LSU does not. And yeah I failed it.
I got AD but I was taking it during a 19 credit hour semester
and I have my A national position.
I was working two-part time jobs.
Things happen. That doesn't make me less of
anything. Less of a vet, less of a person,
less of a student. I'm still smart, I'm still going
to be a great but one day. Everybody has different paths.
So yeah, I mean, did you kind of face any of that?
I've been so, so all of undergrad, they want to push
that 3 + 1 program for LSU 3 plus 1/3 plus one.
You know, like when you're a pre vet, you're automatically in the
3 + 1 program. And if you don't get into vet
school, then you're moved to science and technology, which is
still animal science and the same things.
It's just a couple more production classes.
I got it like I just want to set the stage for like I know and I
know people are going to relate to this because it's such a vet
student thing. I grew up, I got straight A's,
never made ABA, finished out undergrad like I got when I got
into that school. I had a 4.3 GPA in undergrad.
I was an ambassador for LSU, like for LSUI, was working on
top of that. And I, you know, like I was
always in student government or some kind of like interactive
position with like the student body even in high school.
And so I was always a very high achiever.
Like being good at school was like my thing, you know, like I
have a sister, she's the athletic one and the smart 1.
You know, like, that's just kind of how it always was.
Yeah. Like I just, that's just how I
was. Like, I was just always really
involved at school. So then I got into vet school
with the 3 + 1 program. Now was supposed to graduate in
May 2025, but because I didn't pass my OSKI, they said I didn't
meet the requirements to get my degree.
I had to watch all of my best friends graduate.
Like because we all went to LSU together, because we're all
local, we all had like TOPS, which is a Louisiana thing.
If you don't know what TOPS is, it's basically it's based on
your grade point average. So when you graduate high
school, if you have a 4.0 and you keep it up all throughout
college, they will pay for you to go to school.
Like me and all my friends basically went to school for
free because we were all the the nerdy honors kids in high
school. So but yeah, like me and all my
friends graduated, we were supposed to all graduate at the
same time. It was so exciting.
I had family. I was supposed I'm a first Gen.
graduate as well. So I was like having family fly
in to watch me graduate and I didn't find out until like 2
days that I wasn't going to graduate.
And I was so embarrassed. I actually photoshopped the
COVID test to be positive because I was like, I just don't
have the heart to tell anybody about the fact that I failed.
And I was like, well, I'm going to pass the remediation and
nobody's going to know because then I'll just graduate in
August and no one's going to know.
Well, that didn't happen and that's OK.
But then now they're telling me once I was, you know, readmitted
after remediation that I, I won't get a bachelor's degree
this upcoming May. So I'm not going to get a
bachelor's degree unless I have to go, unless I go back to like
the main undergrad, main campus, which is frustrating.
And it kind of puts more stakes on my back because I'm just
like, OK, well, it's DVM or bust.
I guess like, you know what else?
I'm not going to have a degree. So I either, I either got to get
this one or, you know, I'm going to get this degree.
So that's kind of what happened, you know, with the ASCII.
I just like, I remember getting that e-mail and I just like, I
felt like I couldn't breathe. It was so heartbreaking to me to
be like, OK, well, you have to do summer school.
Oh my God, summer school like as like an overachiever, you know,
like vet student, but God, I don't, I don't want to go to
summer school. Like what?
And you know, like, like you said, like you were working 2
jobs. I was working three jobs.
Like it was a lot. You know, I was also moving and
I was just also just having the same personal issues that I was
having before, right before the Oski.
So it's just I didn't pass again.
And also it was part of the fact that it was like, well, if I
don't pass this, I'm not going to get a degree.
Everyone's going to be disappointed in me.
I'm going to be disappointed in myself.
I'm not going to be able to move on with the next class.
And I was so nervous that I like started crying in the middle of
the Oski. And like that, that cost me two
stations because I just couldn't, I couldn't calm myself
down And they wouldn't let me like step aside to like take a
breath because it's a time to test.
So I was like, OK, well, you know, I didn't pass.
I got, I did the whole readmission application and
wrote out, you know, my whole situation.
I even got like my mentor that I, that I work with, she wrote
me an awesome letter of recommendation.
So yeah, it was kind of hard. And then, you know, you're
facing the whole thing of like, well, now I have to make all new
friends and now I have to go back to school and all the
professors are going to already know me and everyone's going to
know that I had to start over. All my second year friends are
like, you know, they, they get to move on and keep going.
And I don't. And it's just just like,
everybody's going to know. It's just that feeling of like
everybody's going to know that I did something bad, which it's
not bad to fail. It's OK to fail.
Nobody fails on purpose and nobody fails because they want
to. And I really hate when this is
so cynical of me, but I hate the everything happens for a reason.
Because sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes life just doesn't make
sense, but I, I do believe that like everybody's journey is
different. I don't think that I was ready
to move to the next class, but I think that I was meant to be in
the class of 2029. I really mesh with everybody
better. I feel more confident in myself.
I feel more confident in my abilities.
And that's one thing that's I think the hardest part of like
failing and having to start over is the confidence.
Getting your confidence back, getting feeling good about
yourself again, feeling like you belong there, feeling like you,
you know, you belong there just as much as everybody else.
Because after I found out that I had to go in and do my first
year again, my confidence was so bad that I couldn't even like
pull blood on animals anymore. And like, I do that every day.
I do that all the time. That's something that usually
comes very easy to me. And it's just like my confidence
was so low that I was like, I can't, I can't do it.
Like I need someone else to do it.
I can't do it. But my advice to people who who
feel that way would be just jump back in.
Just jump back in. Even if you don't feel ready,
even if you don't feel confident, even if you don't
feel like you can do it, just do it anyway.
Just do it anyway. And there's like this quote, I
can't remember what it is exactly, but it's like, do it
scared, do it unsure, do it insecure, do it when it's hard.
Just do it because I would have regretted it for the rest of my
life if I was like, oh, why didn't pass remediation time to
do something else. This is something that I've
wanted for a really long time. And I feel like that's the case
with a lot of people who are in vet school is like, and they
even put it, I don't know if it's on the other applications,
but even it's on the LSU application and it says what
made you want to be a vet? Do not include childhood stories
because everybody and their grandma says, I've always wanted
to be a vet ever since I was little.
So I think that's something that everyone can relate to is like,
you know, you want this for so long and you have this love of
animals and you want it for so long, or even you have this love
of helping people. I think that that's not
something to turn away from if you get discouraged.
I think that that's a really rare thing to be very passionate
about. And, you know, it feels like,
well, there's so many people who are trying to get into that
school. Like somebody will take my
place, but you matter. Like individually you matter.
And this I'm also the president of the Voice Club LSU, which is
Veterinarians for One Inclusive Community for empowerment.
And that's kind of like the whole deal is like you matter in
particular, like your experience changes how you practice, your
experience changes how you interact with people.
And I think everyone's viewpoint is valuable, even if I disagree
with it. So you matter like you bring
something to the table. You can bring something to
veterinary medicine, even if you feel like, oh, I don't belong
here. I don't, I'm not good enough.
You bring something to the table no matter if you know what it is
or not. Yeah.
And I was always shocked. It kind of how many people chose
to remediate and Gretel will go into her experience at the zoo
and kind of people that she knows just a little bit.
I was, I had mentioned before, like I, I don't remember the
exact number, but I want to say it was 6 people didn't make it
like 109888. I can't count, OK, But yeah,
eight people I believe is the number I don't want to say
dropped out or failed like because it sounds so negative.
But for whatever reason, they did not continue to the next
semester. And they are, for the most part,
the people that I know are remediating.
And I was always shocked because I was like, what would I do?
You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know.
Because you're right. All those emotions are so valid.
And it's really important to talk about because I think, I
don't want to say it's getting more common, but I think as
class sizes increase and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1,000,000 reasons. I've looked at kind of the
dropout and graduation rates for a couple different schools when
I was applying because I was like, well, if everybody's
graduating, I'll do fine. Like, right, Like surely.
And nobody is at 100%, nobody has a 100% graduation or pass or
and that can be a couple of different things.
Some of them count the remediation students in that
graduation pass rate, some don't.
Whatever. Point is, you're not the only
person. And I think Gretel can talk more
about that. I think it was even more
prevalent at Mizzou this past year.
Definitely, I mean it was a shell shock for my class as
well. We had more than normal either D
out or they had to have like another option of like
prolonging their time. So I'm a zoo.
You can only have 9 credits of DS.
So that's really like your first two anatomy and Physiology
classes. And I, I don't think they
purposely do it this way, but that's like the same amount of
credit hours for your two hardest classes.
In your first two IPS, there are 9 credits of D and then if you D
out, you have to reapply. And this did happen to several
of my friends, I should say almost 1/4 of the class was
facing whether they might acts like whether they might be out
in the first couple months, which is pretty shocking as like
you were talking about MJ, majority of people in veterinary
school have gotten good grades their whole life.
You know, maybe they have one if that in their whole entire span
of being a student and normally that's in like the hardest
possible classes like chemistry or biochem, But most of the time
I don't think people understand like what a beast veterinary
school is. And for one of my friends who
deed out, she actually just came back into town and we were
talking about it. She's had a really bad living
situation, starting veterinary school, and she couldn't feel
comfortable at home. And she always told me that this
is a conversation between the two of us.
And I said, you know what? They gave us a presentation at
the start of school and calculated how many hours it
would be needed to study and survive.
And they deemed it impossible. And this was in the first couple
days. And after hearing that, I was
like, this is already impossible.
Can you imagine having problems going on at home?
Like I was freaking out. Luckily, you know, I wasn't at
risk of deselling, but I didn't have some high grades the whole
time. Like we were all freaked out we
had all failed an exam at some point.
Like everyone in veterinary school has failed an exam.
I can guarantee at some point they have failed an exam or
multiple. I think people just don't
understand this is so much harder.
The stakes are so much higher. All of your classes feel like
the hardest class you ever took an undergrad.
So think of quadrupling your workload and then you have to
figure it out all in the first few months.
Like how unrealistic is that for pH DS?
They can expand their timeline, but we can't.
We have to. We're expected to be able to
handle it, all of it at once. And I think that's a problem.
I don't know why it has to be so cutthroat.
Other programs aren't in the country for graduate schools.
Yeah, I just, and another thing too, that I really struggled
with when I first got into vet school, and I think this is
something that a lot of people struggle with, is that school
comes so easy when you are like, you know, typically if you are
on the right track, you know, if you're a typical good student
and you make A's and you really don't struggle in undergrad,
it's really hard to come from that.
Oh, I can study the night before.
I can study two nights before and then go into vet school
where you can't do that. And I'm still, I mean, I've been
through first year twice now and I'm still trying to get out of
that habit where I'm like, I can study the night before, It's
fine. Don't do that.
It's not fine. The only reason I can get by
with doing that is because I've seen all the material before.
That's pretty much the only reason.
Yeah. That's just kind of something
that a lot of people don't factor in is like, you're going
to be doing a lot more studying. And even when you feel like, OK,
this material is really easy, there's a lot of it.
And even when it's easy, it's hard because there's just so
much material. And especially if you didn't
like, especially if you didn't take any specialized classes
that are geared toward medicine or even some people, like I know
some people in our class and the class above us who have no
clinical experience, none. They only did like, you know,
research or they were in super involved in like other clubs and
stuff. So they don't have the medical
knowledge that some other people have.
I was fortunate enough to have both.
And I also did like AP biology in high school where we learned
a lot about like the Histology and stuff.
So that the first couple of months I was able to be like,
OK, like I'm OK. Like I've, I've done all this
before and I took an anatomy class they offered like a pre
vet anatomy by Doctor Ritchie in undergraduate LSU.
So I was coming off of that and I was like, you know, like it
won't be that bad. Like it'll probably be the exact
same. No, it's not.
It helps for sure, but it definitely isn't the exact same.
It's much harder. Everything is a lot more
complicated. That school really showed me I'm
like, well, you know, like a bones, a bone, right?
Like they don't, you know, nothing happens to a bone.
Bones are alive. Like bones are alive.
There's just so much stuff going on in the body that you don't
even know about. And then on top of that, you
have to know about it in so many different species.
So it's just it's. It's a beast.
And I think that that's something that people will
underestimate is that they think them being a good student will
outweigh how much of A beast vet school is.
And it's. It doesn't.
It really doesn't. No, and it doesn't matter like
some people, including me are like, oh, should I study before
I get there? Should it?
What should I look at? Nothing.
It doesn't help. Hey, it doesn't matter.
Like hey, sorry to tell you buddy, but like it really
doesn't matter. I mean, maybe if you're
particularly dedicated, it's just hard without like to self
teach yourself anything in vet school.
There's a reason they don't have online vet school unless it's in
Australia. Like I don't know how they do it
and also I don't know how that program works.
So I'm not going to hate on them.
But my point is it's hard to do it without an instructor saying
here's the important things, here's how to filter it out,
here's how to apply this clinically.
And it's just bizarre. And so I'll say same thing.
I thought, you know, I'll be OK because I did undergrad anatomy
one and two for humans. So not the same thing.
That was just what? Auburn offered is required to
graduate. We all took it and I live with
another Auburn student. She felt the same way.
We were like, yeah what the heck.
Like this is not the same thing. And I was even ATA for anatomy,
one lab. And so I was like on top of it,
like I knew my human, the bones and muscles, every single one,
all the origin action, insertion, everything you could
know about it, I was teaching it because we don't have a
professor for lab. It's the TA is teaching it.
So I was good there. I was like, surely can't be that
much different. And I'll tell you that's, that's
true. Most of it is pretty similar and
I was exposed to most of it. Couple differences here and
there. But yeah, after maybe a month,
we got through the entire musculoskeletal system, I think,
and I was just like, yeah, OK, well, that was the extent of my
knowledge. I don't know what we're doing
now. And it comes back, you know, at
LSU and a couple other schools, they do the spiral curriculum.
So in the fall you'll learn it on the dog, and then in the
spring they'll redo all of it. But you're expected to know the
previous semester of dog and apply it and find the
comparative differences on the horse and cow and small room in
it and some avian stuff. So my point was yes if you took
undergrad anatomy, it'll help a little bit with the thinking
process, but once you get past like month 1, I don't even think
it really helps that much. At least the anatomy classes
that I took. Gretel.
Thoughts. My anatomy did not help me at
all. We didn't have any labs, if
anything the repro labs with the tracks helped.
But I was an animal sciences student.
We didn't have any requirement to take human anatomy.
So our extent ended at a PowerPoint with maybe just the
skeleton and some of the major muscles and some origin
insertions and actions. And you know, University of
Illinois is a very hard school. Nothing could prepare me for an
and I got like a 96 in anatomy in undergrad.
By no means was I anywhere near that.
Absolutely not. I scraped by with a sea and
anatomy and that was my worst class.
Oh my God I prayed for a sea like it was that bad adjusting.
I'm doing better now, but I want people to know, like it takes
six months minimum to figure out what you're doing unless you're
a genius. But even the brilliant people
I've been school, I've been good at school my whole life.
Even if you're a genius, this is hard.
And I'm not, so it's especially hard.
Yeah, I just, I don't know, but we got a little off topic.
Let's talk about MJ. What did you do during your gap
period, not gap year, but your gap period, you know, between
the two gears. I know that you had to face
remediation and look at that during the summer.
So you might not have been thinking, thinking about it in
the scope of, oh, I need to repeat the year, what can I do?
But you know, what did you change?
Did you work, did you rest? Did you study, Did you
intentionally make changes to your study technique, time
management, mental health? Just tell us about what you did
in that. Period of the above, I
definitely started, you know, I had the whole self pity period
where, you know, I was in bed for a couple days and I was
like, I just need to be sad about this, but then I need to
be sad about it and then I need to move past it because it's
happened and there's nothing I can do to change the fact that
it happened. And that's something that my
partner actually tells me all the time.
I'm such a worry word. I'm such a well, what if this,
well, what if that? Well, what if this, what if
that? And he's like, but that's not
what happened, though. That's not what happened.
You have to live in reality. You can't live in the well, what
if this had happened and I had done this that in the other.
And that was something that I got really focused on because I
was like, well, if I had done this on the Oscar, I would have
passed. Well, if I had done this on the
Oscar, I would have passed. Because I'm not gonna lie, there
was a couple stations where I was like, hey, I don't agree
with this. They don't care.
They do not care unless you can like solidly prove that you, you
know, like what your disagreement is valid because I,
it happened to somebody that I know she did remediation with me
and somebody had messed up her grade and they she went and she
was like, hey, I don't agree with this like this, you know,
this was graded incorrectly and they went back and reviewed it
and actually was. But you know, just stuff like
that where because you also have to think about the person who's
grading you, it's all up to their interpretation.
And if you said something and they didn't hear it, they're
going to mark it wrong. But if you're like, hey, I said
that because this is what happened to me while we were
outside. We were in a barn.
The fans were going, people were talking.
There was animals making noise. The timer is talking and saying,
you know, you may start your scenario now, all that stuff.
So she didn't hear me say it. And I went and I was like, oh,
my mother, I said it. I promise.
And they were like, look, we can't do anything about it.
Like it's your word against the teacher and or it gets the
greater and we always take the greater because obviously the
student is going to try and want to bump their grade up.
And they failed me by point O 3%.
I was really frustrating. It was really frustrating.
So that I was really stuck and being so close.
I literally was like, well, what if this and what if that?
And I was just trying to like, like I remember sending an
e-mail to our like the facilitator for the class and
just, I think I said please like 6 times because I was like,
please, please, please, like we need to have a meeting.
Like something's wrong. Like I didn't like this isn't
me. Like please, like we need to
meet up. Like, like I was just really
deep in denial. And then I went over everything
and I was like, OK, right, this was me.
I messed up, but it's going to be OK.
Eventually I got to the it's going to be OK stage.
It took me, it took me a couple weeks to get there, but I got
there. But yeah, I kind of what I
really started with honestly, was therapy.
And I know that's like not an option for a lot of people.
I was able to get to it because my job offers it.
So yeah, I knew I needed to work on my confidence.
I knew I needed to kind of get out of this.
Like, oh, poor me. Oh, everything's going wrong and
it's so corny. I keep bringing up all these
Corning phrases, but when people say focus on the positive,
sometimes you just got to, yes, there are points where it's like
focusing on the positive is a little, OK, You're kind of
living in a fantasy land, you know, like if you're $5000 in
credit card debt, well, it's like, well, at least I'm not
$6000 in credit card debt. Maybe not in that situation, but
in a situation where it's like, I got readmitted, I got a second
chance. Does it suck that I'm going to
have to make all new friends and that pretty much everybody's
going to know that I had to start?
Yeah, that sucks. But guess what?
Positive side, maybe I'll meet some really cool people.
My grades. My grades will definitely be
better because I've seen the material before.
So if it's not better than that. Quick question when you I never
even thought about this until just now when you retake all of
these two questions. So you said, did you say you
have to retake every single class regardless?
Because that's what I had assumed.
You have to take all of them. OK, I thought.
So, yeah, so I have to take every class, but it's basically
just like going back into my first year just like everybody
else. Plus sides of that is that a lot
of it's the same and I really don't have to take as many
notes, but like I said, always look on the positive.
Yeah, I just, yeah, I did have to take every class.
I kind of talked to them about it because I was given the
impression that I wouldn't have to retake every class.
Yeah, they they don't. Retake every class.
I wonder maybe other than just refreshing your memory, I wonder
what the reason is because if you only failed one.
They told me it was because second year at LSU is so anatomy
based and it's so Physiology based that they, they didn't
want that information to fall out of my head.
Basically they were like, I think they were like, there's
no, they were like there's more of a benefit to you retaking it
than not retaking it because then it'll still be fresh in
your mind and all that stuff. And honestly, I do think it was
beneficial. I mean, I'm obviously I'm not
saying that everybody needs to take anatomy twice, but like I
said before, I don't think I was ready at the time because I was
like, like, I'm a good student. Like I can do this.
Like it's not even that big of a deal.
And I think me personally, I'm not saying this is for everyone,
but I think me personally, I think that reality needed to hit
where it's like, OK, like we're in, this is this is big girl,
this is big boy time. This is big day then time, you
know, like you got to put your britches, pull your britches up
and all those Southern sayings that they say bootstraps and all
that. And I think it was beneficial
for me, especially just like paying attention.
And I'm like, OK, now I can apply this now.
Now that I'm not, I'm focused on knowing the information and
learning in the information and not just studying to take the
test. And then it falls out of my
brain because that's, that's kind of what I always was used
to doing was like studying for the test and then it falls out
of my brain. And I think that's also another
reason why I struggled my first year was because I wasn't
studying for like long term memory, if that makes sense.
But yeah, they did. They did make me retake all the
classes. It makes more sense.
I kind of figured that they would do that, but I think
somebody had mentioned you didn't.
I don't remember. Anyway, my second question was
when you retake all these classes, does it just get
substituted for your GPA? Does it average?
Get substituted. I'm pretty sure it gets
substituted. I could be wrong.
I wish. I probably should have looked at
that before I came on here, but I.
Didn't even think about it so. Because I asked, I was like,
well, if all of that goes away and I'm retaking all the same
classes, can I get my bachelor's degree?
And they were like, no. And I was like, but it's all the
same. And they were like, yeah, sorry,
it's got to do with like the 3 + 1 timeline.
I was specifically told it's 3 + 1, not 3 + 2.
But that's OK. TVM or bust, baby.
That's the BBM it is. I always think about, I know
there's somebody in our class who got in it.
I don't know what his birthday is, but you know, he's 19 now,
so I don't know if he got in at 18 or whatever.
And I'm just like, good Lord. Like some people, I never even
considered the fact that you don't have to.
I didn't know this was a thing because apparently PSA Auburn
has this too and they don't tell us at all.
I had no idea until I graduated that you can do up until your
junior year. Just get your prereqs and then
if you get into Auburn. They will award you your
bachelor's degree. It's not really a 3 + 1, it's
more just like they'll give it to you at the same time I
believe. But I had no idea, like nobody
told me that I. Was like, that's so unfair.
I would have I graduated in three years anyway.
What I mean, I wouldn't have gotten into Auburn, but.
OK, and at LSU they like the LSU vet school I know specifically
is like you really only have to do the prereqs.
Like I mean, yes, you should get your bachelor's degree if you as
a fall back no matter what. That's why I keep telling all my
people that I know are in 3 + 1. I'm like, maybe get out of that
just just to be safe. It doesn't hurt.
I mean, especially if you're already a good student and
you're going to school for free, why not?
But because what? The reason I was in 3 + 1 was
because, well, I get tops for four years.
If I get into vet school that first time, I'm going to have
half my tuition covered. Well, then that didn't matter in
the end, because then I had to pay for tuition all over again.
So the only benefit of that was, well, at least I didn't have to
pay for a whole year. I really paid for like half an
extra year, so a semester. Yeah.
LSU does it where it's like you can apply to the vet school with
only prereqs because one of the doctors I work with actually did
that and he only had the prereqs and he went to undergrad for two
years and then he got into that school.
I think he graduated in 2005. I don't know.
Could you talk about the thought process in your head?
Because I think people think a lot about my tuition will be
more. But I do believe, like it
cancels out in time. It might seem like a lot of
money right now. And obviously, like, yeah, if
you don't make your payments on time, if you don't strategize
well, it could turn into a lot more money.
But at the same time, it's like a chunk of money now, but it's
still an investment in yourself. I don't know how you view taking
on more money, more loans. I may not be the best person to
ask that because very much of the mindset where it's like
monkey's money, you can't take it with you when you die.
That's how I am. That's how I am.
That's how I've always been. I always get told they're like,
Oh my gosh, like you spend money on all this crazy.
I literally have a lightsaber signed by Hayden Christensen,
who plays Anakin Skywalker in the first 3 episodes of Star
Wars. I'm very much of the mindset
where money's money and you can't take it with when you die.
And I definitely was like, I wasn't raised that way.
I was raised to be like, save your money, be frugal, have
something to leave your kids when you die.
Yes, it's going to be 4 years of debt and it's going to suck.
And I especially feel bad for the people who are coming into
this, umm, clubbing class in, you know, I mean, assuming
there's people international listeners on the podcast, but
people in America, you. Have five countries that listen
to us. Isn't that fun Facts, period.
So, yeah, people in the USI mean, we're on a, we're on a
student loan cap now. So I feel bad for the people who
are having to go through that, you know, because you can only
take out so much money and like, especially like out of state
students are really going to struggle with that.
So I personally feel like, you know, four years of debt, you
know, it sucks, It's a lot of debt to pay off.
But I also think that it's doable.
And I think, you know, especially once you graduate and
you get in your niche and you you practice what you love, I
feel like doing what you love matters more than money.
And maybe that's, you know, an unrealistic way to look at
things in this day and age, but that's just kind of how I
personally feel about it. Yes, it does suck that I had to
pay for an extra year of tuition.
But I look at it as like, OK, I would pay, you know, like, if
they were like, oh, OK, well, you'll pass the Oski if you pay
us a whole nother year of tuition again, I would do it
right now. They're like $14,000 and you
pass your Oski. OK, Who do I send it to?
You got Venmo. Like who do I, it's you right
now, But like you said, it's like a good investment in
yourself. And you know, if you and, and
also you can also use that financial stress to kind of
light a fire under your butt because it's like, OK, well, let
me do this in four years, Let me graduate.
Let me do well so I can do well for myself and then pay back
these loans so that I'm chilling.
Yeah. I mean, loans, they're going to
anybody who takes out loans, it's going to hit you at some
point or the other. How you handle it is up to you.
Some people have the mindset of not, you know, kind of like you
like, hey, I'm going to do it anyway.
Like everybody in this profession, I might be
generalizing here, but everybody that I've spoken to would pay
whatever they needed to pay to get this degree.
And that's crazy to me because you're talking about people
graduating their vet school like in the traditional.
Four year undergrad, 4 year, that school, especially if you
went out of state for both, I mean, you're getting up to 400,
five, $100,000 in loans. And that's just so unrealistic
sometimes. And so for reference, my out of
state tuition at Ellis is, I believe, 62 or $63,000 a year.
And the federal loan cap, which if you're curious, we have a
whole episode on the one big bill and how it affects that
student loan specifically with Doctor Rebecca Mears from then.
That's on the page if you're curious For more information.
But anyway, basically they're capping what you can take out.
And I think it was set up 55,000 a year.
Where am I going to come up with this extra $10,000 private
loans, da, da, da. And again, that's all in the
other episode, why it's bad and whatever.
But point is, people are taking on such a financial load no
matter where they go, especially out of state.
So, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine telling myself, hey,
another year of tuition, but it is nice that TOPS may be covered
a little bit of that and that you're in state because that's a
whole different ball game. I'm double it, literally double
it. It's double the tuition anywhere
out of state. And so, yeah, more props to you.
But I guess I want to talk a little bit about, I don't know
if this necessarily applies to you as much as it does somebody
who maybe failed or got AD Plus in one of their first semester
classes. But are there any early warning
signs or when to ask for help? Do you have any advice on that?
So I feel like, and I've been lucky enough where I've had, you
know, a good support system I've had, I have really good friends
who support me and you know, always are there for me.
And of course, my partner is always there for me and he puts
up with my BS all the time and he's so great for it.
And I also got super, I'm a practice a little bit.
I got super lucky because when I started, when I started vet
school, we started dating the month before I started vet
school and we had met on Tinder. So like we did not know each
other. And I was like, Hey, I just want
to let you know I'm going into vet school and it's going to be
a lot. And I probably won't have as
much time to, you know, you know, be super active and go on
dates and do all that stuff like I have to study.
I have to be home and study. And he was like, OK, well, I'll
sit next to you, you know, And it was just.
So I think that's something that's really important when you
go into bed. School is like, know who your
people are and you'll find out. Trust you will find out because
I had lost friends because they're like, well, you're not
emotionally available girl. I'm trying to keep my head above
water. Like I got enough going on and
it's like, I'm sorry that you know, and it obviously if
there's something big that happened, you know, support your
friends, don't neglect your friends, But you know, you have
to put yourself 1st. And that's something that I had
to learn was I need to put myself first.
I'm, I'm very much the type of person where I'm like, you know,
if they're like, we need someone to stay after work and everybody
kind of looks at each other and I'm like, don't worry, guys,
I'll do it. You know, like I'm just like
that kind of person where I feel bad.
But I think first of all, put yourself first, dude.
Daily. If that's too much weekly check
insurance with yourself. How am I feeling?
What do I need? What do I need more of?
What do I need less of? Shameless plug Finch is like
this little app where you take care of like a bird and it
literally helps me get done with all my tasks every day.
I am neurodivergent and it's really hard for me to remember
to do everything or even like, I'm like, man, I don't want to
shout. Like the last thing I want to do
right now is shower. I'm so tired and I need to go to
bed because I've been studying for the last six hours.
But my little bird is like, but if you shower, you'll feel so
much better. And then I'm like, you're so
right. But anyway, so that's, that's
what I would recommend. You know, like, however you need
to check in with yourself, however you need to like get
your emotional burdens off, whether that's going to therapy,
whether that's talking to someone who is available for, to
listen. Journaling's a really good one.
Journaling's really good. I love to journal.
Just sitting in silence for like 5 minutes, it's crazy.
But I would say warning signs, getting back to your original
question, warning signs that like you're not doing well is
that you're not doing well. If you're not doing well
mentally, personally and physically, you're not going to
do well academically. I don't people are like, I
pulled an all nighter for this test.
I'm judging you because you're not taking care of yourself.
That's not a flex. Like I feel bad for you.
I'm not like, wow, great job. I'm like, no, you should get
some sleep. You should get some sleep.
You should eat at least two meals a day.
Like if you were at least like if you're getting to the point
where it's like, man, like all I'm eating is junk food or like
all I'm doing is like picking on stuff from the vending machine,
that's a sign you're probably not doing well.
If you know, if you're not interested in your hobbies or
your outside relationships anymore, that's a sign you're
probably not doing well. As far as school goes, if you
signs that you're not doing well, like with school and you
need to reach out and ask for help academically would be like,
I would say if there's portions on the test when you're like,
genuinely, when did we talk about that?
Or like, if you hear your fellow classmates talking about
something and you're like, hey, when did that happen?
I was in class that day. Why do I not know what you're
talking about? And that happens to me still
because I'm friends with some people who were like really high
in the ranks of guys and they're like, oh, did you know this,
that and the other? And I'm like, no, I didn't.
I really didn't. And it's OK not to know.
Like it's, it's not the end of the world if someone else knows.
And you don't just be like, hey, can you tell me that?
And that's something that I think is really good with our
class is that we help each other a lot.
And that was something that I didn't really have in my
previous class was that everybody was kind of like,
well, I want to be the best and I'm not going to help you
because I don't want you to be better than me.
But yes, like, or if you just feel behind all the time and you
just feel like you can never catch up and you never have a
day where you're like, I don't have anything to do today, you
know? And those like that means you,
if you feel like you're always just barely keeping your head
above water, you're always going home and you're having to play
catch up or you're always going home and you're like, Oh my
gosh, I have so much stuff to do.
Like I feel so overwhelmed. I would say that's like a sign
that you probably should reach out and be like, Hey, I need
some help managing my time better.
So that way I can have more time for school, but less time for
school, if that makes sense. So like, if you manage your time
better, you feel like you're doing school less, but you're
really doing it more, but it doesn't feel like more.
I would also say like, make time for your hobbies and doing
things that you care about, even if that's like playing video
games or something that you feel is stupid.
I crochet all the time. That was a hobby that I picked
up. But Kayla knows I'd be in class
crocheting. Like it helps me focus.
But yeah, I would say like, I feel like generally people know
when they're not doing OK. And the main thing is, is being
embarrassed to ask for help. And I know a lot of schools will
have an academic advisor. I know LSU has one.
That's a completely confidential conversation.
They're not going to tell anyone you met up with them, and no one
else is going to know why you met up with them.
Just lie. Like, if you really feel like
you need to lie, just lie. Be like, if someone's like, oh,
why'd you have that meeting with that person?
Oh, you know, it was just like club stuff.
I don't know. Just make something up, I think.
But truly, you, you don't need to be embarrassed to ask for
help because I think asking for help when you need it is
actually a sign that you're smarter.
Because that was something I also had to learn.
It's like, I don't know how to do everything and I need to not
act like or like the way I do things may not necessarily be
the correct way to do things. I think it's important to have
something other than school. If your life is just school,
school, school all the damn time.
It's too much. It's too much.
And that's when you get overwhelmed and that's when you
feel like your world is small and that's when you feel like
there's nothing. You have nothing outside of that
school. I was feeling that way for a
long time and then I was like, and then I finally found
something that I was really interested in and passionate
about. And that's like sewing and
crocheting and making things. And I think, I mean, and not
everyone's a creative person, but I feel like I also feel like
making things is such a catharsis that releases a lot.
And it's also a good way to like reflect on how you're feeling as
well, I think. There's this assumption.
I had a couple friends, including myself, like fall for
it, that thinking more time in the books and more time studying
will make you perform better. Yes, to a degree.
I'm going to say you need to put in the amount of effort and the
amount of time needed to learn the material, but you need to
space it out and you need to take breaks and staring at it
for a million hours, your brain cannot do that.
Do so much better after I take breaks because you don't put
your whole life onto an exam. And when you start doing that,
that's when it's dangerous for your brain.
That's when it's dangerous for your mental health.
When you put all yourself worth into school, when you, like you
said, when you stop seeing family members, when you stop
enjoying your normal activities, when you don't do your normal
activities, like maybe if you go to the gym for three hours a day
under undergrad. I don't think you could afford
to do that in veterinary school, but could you go three times a
week for three hours or could you go for an hour a day in the
morning before classes? Yes.
Do I do that? Absolutely not.
Things like that. Have you like, pet your cat?
You know, have you actually played with your cat?
Not just them being in the background, like Milo's right
here with me. Have you brushed your horses?
You know, have you picked their hubs?
Like have you taken care of them and yourself?
Yeah, One thing I had a friend tell me, I don't know where she
came up with it, but it was genius when she said it.
So her and I are both the kind of people where with books or
with certain hobbies, arts and crafts, sometimes, not all the
time. We are both very into all of
these things, but there's a finish line.
And it was always like, Oh well, I just want to get this done.
Like I'm I'm having fun, but I want to finish it.
So I'm going to put aside everything else so I can finish
this project I'm working on, this book I'm reading, whatever
I might be M JS guilty. I knew it, but there's nothing
wrong with that. But she had this brilliant
realization and she was like, so instead of doing those things, I
still do those things for fun, but she's also a busy person and
she chose a hobby that was it had no finish line.
So she chose to rent out a keyboard because when she was
young, she's had do piano lessons and there is no end.
You can always get better. So I thought that was really
cool. And there's no like feeling of,
oh, just this chapter, just this that like you're just
practicing. You're just practicing.
It's endless. It's literally endless.
Like I grew up in band. It is endless.
And you can finish a song. You can finish practicing a
song, but you'll never be perfection at it.
You'll always have tomorrow, the next day.
It takes years. And so I thought that was a good
idea. Another good idea that I do
personally is every single night I take a bath and every night in
the bath I read a book. So that was how I got ahead of
the whole like I have to finish it or, oh, I want to finish.
Like I'm enjoying it, so I want to finish it and I'm going to
put everything else aside and finish it.
But that way it gives me the time to sit down, relax, take my
bath, read my book, which is something I want to do.
I'm not forcing myself to do it, But whenever I get to a chapter,
I close it and I get out of the bath.
I can't sit in the bath forever. I'll sit there for a long time,
but point is, and I don't pick it up outside of the outside of
the bathroom. Like it stays in there and
that's my fun, like relaxed time.
And then when I get out of the bathtub, back to work, like kind
of that's one way that I've found.
Yeah, and I found I hacked my own system because I, I also, I
saw I sew and I, I also cosplay and stuff.
So I've, I've so much of a victim of like I need to finish
this tonight. Like I, because it's like, I
know I can do it, but it's like, should you do it?
And when I picked up crocheting, I found out I was like, you can
only crochet for so long at one point in time because then your
wrist starts to hurt and then you need to take a break.
Because if you don't, if like if you start to hurt and you keep
going, you can literally get carpal tunnel.
So I'm like, if I'm crocheting and I'm like, OK, this is kind
of starting to get uncomfortable.
My fingers are kind of getting sore.
I need, I need to stop and do something else for a little bit
while and then I can come back, you know, and it's also
beneficial because it's one of those hobbies where you can do
it while you are doing something else.
So it's like it's you can watch lectures while you do it, but I
mean like I can't do it while I study.
It's too distracting. So it's like, OK, well,
Commodoro timers have saved my life. 25 minutes on, 5 minutes
off. I get to study for 25 minutes, 5
minutes, I get to crochet and I just put my ball of yarn right
next to me and I'm like OK, 5 minutes I crochet and then I go
right back to studying and it kind of gets out that need
because I always feel like 05 minutes, Like that's not a break
at all because I'm always scrolling on my phone.
It's always that damn phone. But whenever you find something
in between that's not scrolling on your phone to have breaks and
stuff, they seem to last a little bit longer.
I found myself when I'm really. Stressed.
We'll end up here soon with some final words, but I find myself
when I'm stressed and I'm studying at the school because
that's just my preferred place to study.
I will go during my breaks pace and one time I walked like 5
miles pacing in that little like orthopedic hallway, the short
hallway. I was doing circles, just
circles and circles and circles. But I was having fun.
I was having the time of my life.
I was like whoa. And then I sprained my ankle
because I was going so fast and I was like, I'm.
Such AI literally sprained my ankle.
I was like, all right, gotta chill Outback to studying.
But it's funny. I wish I had Strava and it would
just show me going like this around the vet school.
But all right, let's talk about or Gretel.
Did you have anything else you wanted to talk about before we
kind of close up? No, I love that.
I absolutely do. Picking up habits that bring you
peace? Very important.
Right. I had a couple notes.
We've already addressed them, but kind of to synopsis, give a
synopsis. I hope we addressed a little bit
of the stigma around failing and remediating.
Again, it is not just MJ who did this.
It is not just you, the listener who's at risk for this.
It is every single one of us. Everybody's at risk for it.
It can happen to anybody. It does happen to more than one
person a year at, I don't want to say all schools, but at least
gradualized universities. Like it happens, it really does.
And it is not talked about. I didn't even think about
failing or failing a class or failing out before I got into
that school. And then once I got in and I was
faced with like. When I'm on that cusp of D + C
minus. And then I was looking at our
handbook and I was like, wait, there's actually not a lot of
information on this. Like maybe we should talk about
it. So when MJ proposed, they said
let's talk about it. And I said, come on.
Like. Let's talk about it to the
extent that we can. It's not that it's undercover,
it's just very case dependent I feel.
But there is always a second chance.
It's just a matter of how you do it and also normalizing setbacks
in rigorous programs in general. Despised not only to vet school,
even for undergrad, things happen.
You might have to take a class again, You might have to take a
semester again, whatever it might be, reframe.
I like this one, but reframing failure as data, not identity.
Like that's just like 1 little data point and your huge data
charts. You know what I mean?
Like if you're progressing and you're still at a upward trend
and it's just this one little dot down there, why are you
letting that kind of take over everything?
And what you're thinking, I know I've fallen victim to it in
other aspects of my life, but applies here too.
So MJ, if you could tell yourself your past self one
thing, what would it be? Have compassion for yourself, be
kind. There's nothing wrong with
having a set back. There's nothing wrong with
having a road bump. What matters is picking yourself
back up and not letting that define you.
There is a quote from Latrice Royale from season 4 of Drag
Race that I think about all the time and it's not word for word,
but it's you're going to fall. But when you fall, you get up,
you look sickening and you make them eat it and you prove them
wrong. And that's what I do.
And and I'm like, who am I proving wrong?
I don't know them. I'm proving them wrong.
And you just, I'm like, yeah, stick to the man.
I'm like, I have no haters, but I'm like, stick it to the man
anyway. You know what I mean?
It's just like, I don't the way I handle is come up with an
imaginary enemy. And that's what I'll say to
myself and what I would say to people.
And as a closing word, because I've yapped so much and I've
derailed this entire podcast. But what I will say say is if
you're like, oh, well, this doesn't apply to me.
I'm a good student. I do well in bed school.
What I will say to you, dear listener, have compassion for
people who are maybe not doing as well.
I've had people make comments to me that are they're hurtful.
Like even if it comes off, oh, it's a joke, you know, like I'm
not trying to be hurtful. Like, you know, I have some
compassion. Don't talk about, I mean,
imagine how you would feel if you feel out of that school, you
know, like that's, that's a pretty low point.
And for anyone. And I think, you know, be
sensitive about it. Some people may treat it as like
and whatever, you know, like, I don't really care.
We move on, life moves on. But there's some people who get
really broken up about that stuff or that's a very sensitive
topic to be discussed in certain situations.
So I just think, you know, if you are thinking, OK, well, this
doesn't apply to me. Like whatever, just just be
compassionate. That's it.
Thank you so much for joining us, MJI.
Want to thank you for, first of all, being so open and
vulnerable about it. I think it's going to help so
many people. And I know people think they'll
never be in this place, but literally this happened to my
friend as well where she was 1 1/2 points away and and we can't
say it's on the professor to move anything.
I want people to know a lot of the times it's this close and
for whatever reason it happens, you come back and guess what?
They make the best veterinarians in the world because they want
to be there more than anyone else.
Yeah, that's very true. I don't want to wish it on
anybody, but I do believe failure in any sense or hard
things, adversity makes everybody stronger.
That's not a new concept to anybody, hopefully.
And just stop my last message. It's not even about remediation.
It's stop telling people that like they don't deserve to be
here because I've been told to my face more than once if you
didn't do XYZ, you don't deserve to be here when that statement
applied to me. And it's like you don't even
know me. You didn't even know that that
statement applied to me, whether it was GPA or clinics or
whatever it might have been. And you have the audacity to sit
here and tell me, a stranger to my face?
We're in the same class, we are sitting shoulder to shoulder
taking the same classes, passing the same classes, getting
through this together, working as a team.
We might be in the same PBL group, we might do a group
project. We might be in clinics together
on the same rotation in a couple years.
And you were sitting here telling me I don't deserve to be
here and you know nothing about me.
You didn't know that statement applied to me.
But just the thought that you would say that is crazy.
And I see it happen all the time.
So just chill. Chill with that in that school,
out of that school that needs to stop but being so negative.
It is especially to somebody who you don't know or to people you
do know. I don't want to generalize, but
anyway, yeah, thank you everybody for listening TuneIn
to the next episode. We're on Apple podcast, YouTube,
Spotify, all of the things. And thank you again, MJ, for
coming on and we'll see you next time.
Thanks for having me, bye. Thanks, MJ.