1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,280 Hello everyone and welcome back to the Vet Files with Gretel 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,120 Wurdak. And today we are talking with 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,680 Doctor Michael Bailey, the 2025 to 2026 President of the 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,960 American Veterinary Medical Association. 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,800 A board certified veterinary radiologist, Doctor Bailey 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,560 earned his DVM from Tuskegee University and completed his 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,880 internship and radiology residency and Michigan State 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,920 University. His career spans academia, 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,440 private practice, innovation, and policy. 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,760 He has served on the faculty at Tuskegee and Michigan State, 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,960 achieved tenure at The Ohio State University, and contribute 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,440 extensively to both veterinary and human medical literature. 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,400 Doctor Bailey also pioneered advanced veterinary CT imaging 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,080 services, helped expand national telemedicine and imaging 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,040 networks, and currently works in medical innovation within global 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,200 telemedicine consulting. Thank you so much for joining 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,760 us, Doctor Bailey. My pleasure, thank you for 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,720 having me. Of course, to start, I'd love to 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,400 hear about your journey to becoming president of the AVMA. 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,960 Could you expand on your career path? 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,520 Don't know if we have enough time, but here's the In a quick 22 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:31,000 nutshell, to become involved at the high levels of ABMA is a 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,560 long journey. You don't decide, wake up and 24 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,520 tomorrow you do it. It took me 20 years, so I'm not 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,080 saying it would take you 20 years, but it took me 20 years 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,880 to do it. And that's because you need to 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,520 get a basic understanding of organized veterinary medicine at 28 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,600 a more local level. And you take that up through the 29 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,680 ABMA, which included going from president of the Pennsylvania 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Veterinary Medical Association to becoming a delegate in the 31 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,680 House of Delegates of the ABMA, then running to what's called a 32 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,760 district director. In my case, I became district 33 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,280 director of District 2, which was New Jersey, Delaware, 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,560 Maryland, Virginia and Pennsylvania and District of 35 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Columbia. I thought that was going to be 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,680 the end of it. And then as I neared the end of 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,080 my district director, which is a six year term, I decided there 38 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,040 was more I wanted to do and a few things I wanted to say, and 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,160 I ran for president. And now that is a three-year 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,000 term because we become president-elect. 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,320 Then you become president for a year. 42 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,040 And when you become immediate past president and when you're 43 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,440 through, you go and you have your head examined, you need to 44 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,080 try and understand not just the insurance and outs of your 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,400 organization, but other organizations which you're going 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,120 to interact with and realize it comes down to, for example, the 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,280 AVMAS is is incorporating the state of Illinois and its bylaws 48 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,280 are there. So there's legal aspects. 49 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,440 It's not just a matter of, oh boy, I'm going to do what it 50 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,840 says. The association you have to do 51 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,120 what the state says also for an example. 52 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:06,760 That is so interesting. I did not know that, so I 53 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,520 attended the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. 54 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,120 So is the AVMA, is it like in the headquarters or in Chicago 55 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,920 area that's. They're in Schaumburg, which is 56 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:19,400 a suburb of Chicago. That's right. 57 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,800 So in downtown Schaumburg. Who would have thought I I 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,560 always had this image of the AVMAI just saw the first image 59 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,000 of like the House of Jelly. I was like, whoa, that is an 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,680 intimidating big room. But I was like, do they have an 61 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,560 office? Do they function on their own? 62 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,520 Do you keep your day-to-day job and then this is just piled on 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,440 top of it? That last one it's piled on top 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,960 of. So you keep your day-to-day job 65 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,800 and then you make time to do the volunteer activities which the 66 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,880 AVMA asks you to do. In the case of the president, 67 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,920 you're on almost 24 hours a day, seven days a week because you 68 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,080 may have interviews you I'm not even like podcast, but podcast 69 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,640 and the ABMA president was you are extremely involved with the 70 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,320 politics of the ABMA. You're also very much involved 71 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,680 with letting people know what veterinary medicine is about. 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,080 There is A and when not just talking about general public 73 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:34,120 kids, politicians, but also veterinarians, there's amazing 74 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,960 how many veterinarians don't realize things like the first 75 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,920 FDA approved surgical robot was designed, built and programmed 76 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,160 by a veterinarian. And I say that because I try to 77 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,640 tell people all the time there's no limit to what veterinarians 78 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,520 can do. So that's just one example. 79 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:56,720 I went to a drone competition at the Mascalero Apache Indian 80 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:02,240 Reservation a few weeks ago and those kids there are flying 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,200 drones all over the place and programming them. 82 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,760 It's amazing they can do it. I asked them what they plan on 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,600 doing and asked them did they see under the other 84 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,600 applications. What they were doing was 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,280 actually preparing them to be the next generation of 86 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:18,000 veterinarian. The hand eye coordination, the 87 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,320 programming skills and artificial intelligence. 88 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,080 They already know the understanding of sensors and 89 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,880 whatnot. That's a great place to recruit 90 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,720 kids in the veterinary medicine, I think. 91 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,120 That's such a unique perspective because I think when people 92 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,240 think of medicine and they think of agriculture, they don't think 93 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,720 of like robots or technology. Actually at University of 94 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,440 Illinois, that was where I attended undergrad, I think they 95 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,040 had the first program in the country where it was a combined 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,280 animal science and computer science degree. 97 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,800 So they're starting, but there were only I believe like 3 98 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,600 people in the program. So I'm excited to see like where 99 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,680 we'll take them. But U of I has a very difficult 100 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,040 computer science program, so I think that was more of the turn 101 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,760 off for most people. Or they just didn't even have 102 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,240 the idea of how diverse veterinary medicine could be. 103 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:18,880 Computers, when I was going through high school, computers 104 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,720 where you did not have them on your desk, much less in your 105 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,520 telephone. When I went to college, I used 106 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,080 the slide rule. Yes, folks, a slide rule is a 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,280 piece of wood that tells you complicated mathematics. 108 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,000 And we put the first people on the moon using slide rules. 109 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,440 If people were to think about the fact that the power in your 110 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,960 cell phone is more powerful than the computers they use to put 111 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,160 the first people into space and on the moon, we're so far beyond 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,320 that for do not think of computer science as being 113 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,880 complicated. The only people who make 114 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,600 computer science complicated are the ones who want to keep it to 115 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,920 themselves. It can be, I don't want to say 116 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,320 it's easy. It can be as practical as 117 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:14,120 cooking that world class cake or changing the spark plugs in your 118 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,240 car. And I put it that way because 119 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,400 not everybody can do those things. 120 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,400 But in many cases, if you want to learn how to do it, you can. 121 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,840 That's a great perspective to have. 122 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,400 I have taken AP Computer Science, that is the closest 123 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,560 thing. It was not my talent, but I 124 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,600 would say especially now that we're talking about AI today, I 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,600 think people can have more help with it than they used to. 126 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Yeah, it might have mistakes, but at least get them started. 127 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Well, think about before you had to know all the insurance and 128 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,240 outs of writing code and nobody could really check it for you. 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,280 You ran it through the computer, and if it ran, it ran. 130 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,960 If it crashed then you have to go back and debug it. 131 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,160 My first computer program was stored on paper that's showing 132 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,200 you how old I am. But now if you want to, you can 133 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,640 get a start by going into one of the readily available programs 134 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,440 and say please write a program in Python that performs this 135 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,000 task and it will write the program for you. 136 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,240 I would have loved that in AP Computer Science because I 137 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,200 crashed mine all the time. So did I, I'll be honest with 138 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,760 you, I I crashed my programs all the time too. 139 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,640 But it's just the fact it we've gone from that to, yeah, there's 140 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,760 now basically LEGO's building block and programs. 141 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:37,080 That's really best thing to say. Right. 142 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,760 It's changed the field a lot. Speaking of changing fields, so 143 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:47,160 your role as AVMA president, you have to bridge the gap between 144 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,760 not only veterinarians, but the public. 145 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,440 So AI is becoming a huge issue, not an issue in healthcare, but 146 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,360 a huge topic in healthcare. Could you describe that role, 147 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:02,440 what we're seeing in veterinary medicine with AI so far? 148 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:10,760 AI is just another tool. And like every tool, and I'm 149 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,080 going to say this, people are going to say, yeah, but we, we, 150 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,840 we don't have this. But really, you should not have 151 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,600 a car driving down the road without somebody in the car. 152 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,240 It may get to that point, but today we're not ready for it. 153 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,640 So that's AI. You always need to have a human 154 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:35,080 in the loop and that's because AI tell people, 14 year olds, 155 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,880 you're going to hate me because I'm going to pick on you. 156 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,720 I tell people that AI is like a 14 year old. 157 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,320 They are very convincing liars. You do not necessarily know when 158 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,320 they're lying and AI is that convincing 14 year old. 159 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,280 It can tell you a lie called hallucinations, which can be 160 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,880 seen so real and then we'll find out after the fact. 161 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,040 Didn't really do that so I won't pick on 14 year olds anymore. 162 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,920 How sad. Say I've seen it say things 163 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,680 incorrectly, especially now that I'm in veterinary school and I 164 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,840 will use it to make practice exams just to prepare 165 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,560 adequately. It can never make a practice 166 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,000 exam as difficult as my professors. 167 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:25,920 Secondly, it always simplifies it and then the simplification 168 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,560 it can actually get things wrong. 169 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,640 Yeah, oversimplifies. Yes, exactly. 170 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:38,680 But you see, what you are dealing with is probably a 171 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,560 program that has biased to be more of an explainer than a 172 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:45,200 tester. And that's one of the things 173 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,760 that people have to realize that AI does and probably will always 174 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,200 have some degree of biases. People have biases. 175 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,080 It's a program made by people. What do I mean by a bias? 176 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,440 Let's say everything you trained on and these programs have to be 177 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,360 trained. So if you took all of your 178 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,240 professor's questions, all of them for let's say 10 years, 179 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,280 assuming your professor's been teaching for 10 years and put 180 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:12,160 them in there, it probably would learn your professor's style and 181 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,200 write questions in your professor's style. 182 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,920 But well, let's say that your professor knew nothing about 183 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,400 hats and you put a question in there about cats that say it was 184 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,400 doing great on the dog or the horse question, but it knows 185 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,800 nothing about cats. Now it's going to say, OK, it 186 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,520 starts giving you something and it's trying to make it up 187 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,080 because it doesn't want to let you know that it doesn't know 188 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,160 the answer. That's just the way it's 189 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,880 programmed. So it's biased towards dogs and 190 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,720 you have to be very careful about that. 191 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,560 So we were talking a little bit before we talked about bias. 192 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,040 So it's biased in the way that it goes back to whatever its 193 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,200 training is. So in diagnostics, there's the 194 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,280 potential like if you gave them all your notes and your soaps 195 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,320 for years and then put in the same symptoms, maybe you could 196 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,800 file your line of diagnostics in the past. 197 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,240 However, it's not seeing the animal so some people will 198 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,000 probably come into the office. They probably looked in ChatGPT 199 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,080 my dog is throwing up, has a beep. 200 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,160 Just naming random things and could think it's one thing but 201 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,120 it's entirely different. Is there a lot of danger in 202 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,000 that? Extremely. 203 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,240 I'll give you an example that happens in real life. 204 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,720 And remember what we're talking about is artificial 205 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,400 intelligence. Let's say you have a dog, you 206 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,640 live in New Jersey. I grew up in New Jersey. 207 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,960 You have a large breed dog, you bring it in, you take a 208 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,920 radiograph, and there's an osteolytic lesion in one of the 209 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,400 long bones. So living in New Jersey, I'd 210 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,560 say, well, this could be an infection, but it's more likely 211 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,240 cancer. And I train it. 212 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,800 Whenever it sees a large breed dog coming in with a long bone, 213 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,120 the first thing it puts on the list is going to be cancer, 214 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,240 osteosarcoma, for example. Now, let's say that that dog has 215 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,320 a twin who didn't grow up in New Jersey, but it grew up in 216 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,320 Arizona, same litter, you know, it was out of the same litter, 217 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,840 out of the same parents and whatnot. 218 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,760 And around the same time it comes in with an osteolytic 219 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,120 lesion. And let's say you took to say 220 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,800 I've got a program that I've been using in New Jersey and 221 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,160 it's been working great. And you run that on it and 222 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,560 what's it tell you? It tells you cancer. 223 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,680 However, the dogs in Arizona, I would at least remember I set 224 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,000 off saying well it could be infection. 225 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,480 Was crying in Arizona. First thing I might think about 226 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,880 would be fungal disease. But your AI doesn't know 227 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,640 anything about fungal disease because you never had one come 228 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,040 in. So it's going to tell you cancer 229 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,560 and tell you about the diagnostics for fungal disease. 230 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,680 Right. I guess it's not thinking about 231 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,320 where they are in the climate as well. 232 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:10,120 So it's not just symptoms, it's also background that it has no 233 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,200 idea. Well, see, I the dogs could both 234 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,160 have the exact same symptoms. They're out of the same litter, 235 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,080 the same breed. That's where they grew up. 236 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,960 Wow, we've been talking a lot about not necessarily negatives, 237 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,960 but just be aware, be educated about it with AI, what are some 238 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,840 positives for animal health and welfare with it? 239 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,360 There's a lot of positives, and really we're veterinarians. 240 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,400 And the reason I'm bringing that up right now, if it's not 241 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,360 obvious, is because we're responsible not just for animal 242 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,240 health, but for human health and environmental health. 243 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,560 OK, so one health. So what are some of the 244 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,840 positives? AI. 245 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Well, computers and AI is extremely fast. 246 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,440 It can compile a large amount of data very, very quickly. 247 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,640 So if it is an adequately trained system, let's assume 248 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,080 that it is and you have a dog that comes in 8:00 in the 249 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,640 morning. You do your typical diagnosis. 250 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,680 You as being the high in demand clinician that we know that you 251 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,400 are will be haven't had a chance to look at anything yet. 252 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,960 But Mr. and Misses Jones are in the waiting in the exam room 253 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,120 waiting for you to come in to to give them some idea what's going 254 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,320 on with their fur baby. And now you're looking through 255 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,400 your AI generated report. It has taken all the data that's 256 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,640 been coming in all day long and it's compiling it. 257 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,200 You're looking to see if anything's missing. 258 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,200 So when you get to the door, it gives you its top three 259 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,480 differentials. Whereas if you were doing it 260 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,800 yourself, you'd have to say, I'll call you tomorrow after 261 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,880 I've had a chance to look through it and you probably 262 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,440 still would not have a chance to go through all the information. 263 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,400 We can diagnose some diseases six months earlier now with AI 264 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,520 than we could before, because it takes all these subtle trending 265 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,680 changes and whatnot and it can analyze them. 266 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,480 And that early diagnosis, just think the pet may not be showing 267 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,520 any clinical signs. It may just be routine exam or 268 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,880 even several exams because it loves trending and it's starting 269 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,040 to see things. And let's say it's a patient 270 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,320 that's developing cushions disease. 271 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,520 If we can treat it six months before it starts showing any 272 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,640 clinical signs, we may be able to prevent the chronic clinical 273 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,400 changes that this pet is going to develop. 274 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,320 And therefore we now live in their life because they are 275 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,840 never going to suffer from the chronic disease of Cushing's or 276 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,080 whatever disease we want to talk about. 277 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,680 That's what AI is going to afford us. 278 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,560 AI is not better than a human. It is faster than a human. 279 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,800 It still means the human to have that critical eye. 280 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,240 Remember I said he gives you the top three diagnosis. 281 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,200 You as the human then have to sort through that and say I 282 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,160 agree with what it's putting his number one, or in this 283 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,520 particular Case, No, you didn't take in consideration that this 284 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,680 dog grew up in Arizona and not New Jersey. 285 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,480 So I also, when I was at University of Illinois, we 286 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,400 talked about what you were talking about, compiling data. 287 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,520 So watching hundreds to thousands of hours of footage, I 288 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,720 guess in this case it would be diagnostic data. 289 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,840 So taking that all over the years, is there a way for 290 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,280 veterinarians to easily do that? Are there programs that exist 291 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,080 now for it or is this all in means of development? 292 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,880 At the moment I'm. Going to say yes, that's not a 293 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,000 cop out. There are programs out there 294 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,200 already and they're called clinical decision systems. 295 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,680 Most of them are in human medicine. 296 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,960 So we have to adapt in the veterinary medicine, but there 297 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,800 are some companies who are optimizing them or developing 298 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,880 for veterinary medicine. And there's some programs which 299 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,360 are just somebody's brainchild right now. 300 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,320 But the fact is, words we used to say, once again showing you 301 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,000 my age, and when I started this, my hair was black. 302 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:19,200 I never imagined AI other than science fiction when I got out 303 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,240 of veterinary school. Now it's an everyday thing. 304 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,960 So that's 40 some years. OK, those you can add up and you 305 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,680 can get an idea how old I am. Where am I going with this? 306 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,160 Is the fact that what might have taken, let's say, 5 to 10 years 307 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,800 just to make a little change now is happening in 18 months, maybe 308 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,240 even six months. So for me to say that a program 309 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,120 may not be available today doesn't mean it can't be 310 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,600 available in a matter of weeks or months. 311 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,600 So what it took when I graduated from veterinary school, When I 312 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,000 graduated from veterinary school, I was only reading about 313 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,760 ultrasound machines. I went to internship in the 314 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,400 residency in Michigan State and they had to buy their first 315 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,240 ultrasound machine because I said for me to have a residency, 316 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,560 I have to have ultrasound. They didn't have one. 317 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,680 CTI wrote the first article at Michigan State or when I was at 318 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,000 Michigan State on CT, that Michigan State had written on a 319 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,880 veterinary CT and then at Ohio State there was MRI and magnetic 320 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,960 resonance spectroscopy. So each thing was marching on as 321 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,520 I went through my career. So you can say I was kind of 322 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,200 ahead of the pack, but I can also tell you from the time I 323 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:43,440 went from veterinary school to residency to doing research at 324 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Michigan State, this time was getting compressed. 325 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,680 Things were new, things were happening. 326 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,160 And by the way, I hope everybody knows the 1st CT scanner was 327 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:58,520 developed by EMI who's the same company that recorded The 328 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,320 Beatles records so. No idea. 329 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,240 Oh my goodness. Yeah, same company. 330 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,920 The time is compressing what's happening. 331 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,480 If you can think of something, you can probably get somebody to 332 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,320 turn it around for you in a very quick period of time. 333 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,040 So clinical decision systems are here, and I think they're going 334 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,760 to be optimized for veterinary medicine. 335 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:24,480 And those are going to allow us to optimize the treatment of our 336 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,120 pets. And it is going to shorten the 337 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:33,320 diagnostic time for diseases. It hopefully will also make it 338 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,720 so that more pets can be treated. 339 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,160 So we will increase access to care. 340 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,000 And I just hope people don't decide to charge outlandish 341 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,200 amounts of money for it. I can see it as a really big 342 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,760 tool for making things faster. I have seen our practitioners 343 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:54,000 been buried in paperwork before trying to reach arts trying to 344 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,000 write their soaps. I'm not sure about AI writing 345 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,360 soaps, but I have heard of some, like some veterinarians will 346 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:06,480 record their appointments and then the computer will pick it 347 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,320 up and write their soaps for them. 348 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,560 Have you ever seen that before? Yes, there's several programs. 349 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,440 I won't say what the names are, but that actually is a very 350 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,000 practical thing. And depending on how you want to 351 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,240 approach it, it can just be a matter of you talk and it then 352 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,680 uses a large language model to put things into place and it 353 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,520 thinks it should be. Be sure you check your work 354 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,280 because it may not always put things in the right way or as 355 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,760 you're going to, you can say classify this under SOAP, 356 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,720 whatever place you want and it will place things in there for 357 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,520 you. And I think that's a little bit 358 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:46,720 of a smoother process. But this is, I have had people 359 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,080 using it who tell me that they now get home for dinner with 360 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,840 their family every night. So I think that's a big thing 361 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,200 because it is improving the quality of life for our team 362 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,280 mates. But I just do want to warn you, 363 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,200 I go back to always keep a human in the loop. 364 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,760 And if you're going to have the computer do it for you, that's 365 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,760 great. But just be sure you go back and 366 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,960 look and check. Yes, that's right, that's right. 367 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,360 No, that I don't think we're going to do before you publish 368 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,520 it. Do you have any fear that 369 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,520 veterinarians will become super reliant on AI and almost look to 370 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,280 it to diagnose their patients? I know that AI cannot do 371 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,680 veterinary school for them and I think people need to know 372 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,960 veterinarians vet students. I am tested so often with so 373 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,440 much information and I think the hardest part is for getting 374 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,640 information. It comes back, you know you 375 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,040 review again, it comes back. But I would freaked out if I 376 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,600 type something into a diagnostic platform and it gave me options 377 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,080 and I looked at it in school and I was like oh should it be that? 378 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,160 But I'm leaning towards that. But is that information I 379 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,560 forgot? 1st I'll ask you a question. 380 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,000 Do you think a veterinarian is a regurgitating machine or a 381 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:20,480 critical thinking machine? I have to say critical thinking 382 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,360 machine correct? Bing Bing, Bing, Bing, you got 383 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:27,760 that answer right. What you should be trained in 384 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,760 veterinary school is how to use your critical thinking skills. 385 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,280 Critical thinking is so important because we cannot 386 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,080 teach you everything. We have to be able to teach you 387 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,800 how to use your inherent intelligence to come down when 388 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:51,320 you see something you haven't seen before, to have an idea of 389 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,680 where to go and when. I teach radiology, particularly 390 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,960 to residents, this is the key. Everybody, I tell them when 391 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,760 you're writing your report, the first thing you have to do is 392 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,960 act like a compass. What do I mean? 393 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,440 There we have north-south, east, West. 394 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,400 We want to send the person in the right direction. 395 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:17,240 So your critical thinking skills are trying to help you get your 396 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,800 compass right as far as north-south, east, West. 397 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,080 Now there's a big sector in that pious where you can be in there. 398 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,720 But if you're going in the right direction, then you'll have time 399 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,640 to refine your information to sort of the GPS coordinates. 400 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,440 But if you're supposed to be going east, but you're really 401 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,400 going West, there's a big difference between the Atlantic 402 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,280 Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. So we don't want that. 403 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,080 So your critical thinking skills first help you go in the right 404 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,760 compass direction, and then you're trying to use those 405 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,800 critical thinking skills to figure out how you refine it to 406 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,840 come down to the GPS coordinates. 407 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,280 If you depend too much on AI, you will lose those critical 408 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,120 thinking skills, and I'm not lying about that. 409 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,480 GPS, what we have in our cars, they say, is causing the portion 410 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,000 of the brain on directions to shrink because so many people 411 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,000 depend on GPS and not their ability to know directions. 412 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,560 Same thing will happen if we depend too much on artificial 413 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,400 intelligence. That's true, I have never been 414 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,760 able to successfully actually read a map. 415 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,200 I think if you dropped me somewhere I could not find my 416 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,920 way home. Yeah, I. 417 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,000 Should just terrify. It. 418 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,200 But wouldn't you rather to know that you were going in the right 419 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,120 topless direction than the opposite one? 420 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,840 Exactly, exactly. I don't want to lose it for 421 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,000 veterinary medicine at all, even though I think people look at it 422 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,440 and they look at these programs and they're like, well, it's a 423 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,640 computer, Shouldn't it be smarter than me? 424 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,680 Doesn't it know more than I could ever know? 425 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,840 And that's exactly what the computers want you to think. 426 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:04,000 Exactly. If they take over the world, if 427 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,720 we let them. And guess what? 428 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,920 I love computers. I love artificial intelligence. 429 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,400 They taking over my world. Exactly. 430 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,640 It can't replace the veterinary medicine because we're the 431 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,600 compass, as you say, to where we should be going if we're going 432 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,600 in the right direction. But we can use it as a resource 433 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,080 to, you know, make our days go faster, write our notes faster, 434 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,400 and then maybe grab information that we otherwise wouldn't have 435 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,960 put together because there are hundreds of patients a year, 436 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,640 hundreds of cases. We're not going back and 437 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,880 referencing all their old numbers in diagnostics. 438 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,400 Exactly trending the following of subtle changes. 439 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,320 I'm just think about heart disease, Rottweiler, Doberman, 440 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,000 King Charles Spaniel, and if you start following their heart size 441 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,160 early on and the heart size stays normal, you might have 442 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,000 less concern. But if you start seeing the 443 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,240 heart size getting bigger and bigger, I mean subtle, but yes, 444 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,680 constant change, then you're going to say, I think we need to 445 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,720 send Fluffy or Fido or whatever your pet's name in and have a 446 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,320 check and say you can get people to say in the next 6 months I 447 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,000 would like to see an echocardiogram. 448 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,000 What's that do? It means instead of the clients 449 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,880 having to figure out where to get the money it's going to cost 450 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,400 for an Echo in the next 12 hours, they have six months to 451 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,440 plan on this expense that will have such an impact on improving 452 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,000 the care of our pets. Because the clients won't say I 453 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,960 can't afford it, not necessarily. 454 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,560 At least they might say, OK, I can put a few dollars away each 455 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,560 week so that our pet here can get their Echo here in six 456 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,040 months. So that's one of the ways it can 457 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,520 help. It can help us plan for medical 458 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,640 procedures that are necessary. That goes into my next question 459 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,480 actually. It was about how could AI help 460 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,120 with veterinary care in underserved communities as well, 461 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,240 so adding more time to the table. 462 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,680 Can you think of anything else? Are there any programs that 463 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,080 could help people who could maybe not afford veterinary 464 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,960 care? Well, if we'll start off with 465 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,960 the fact that by us becoming more efficient, we can see more 466 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,440 pets and part of the efficiency of any business because remember 467 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,600 we're talking about veterinarians or small business 468 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,960 owners. How can we make it so that 469 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,480 veterinarians margins are better? 470 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520 And you know, you have basically three ways that you can improve 471 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,720 margins. You can increase the price, you 472 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,320 could decrease the cost of what it is you purchase, or you can 473 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,560 make what you do more efficient. So if we can make things more 474 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,000 efficient, you don't have to raise the price or go to a 475 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,520 cheaper product. So by doing it, hopefully 476 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,160 veterinary medicine will become affordable and reachable to more 477 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,040 people and you'd be able to see instead of seeing one patient 478 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,560 every 15 minutes, you will feel comfortable seeing a patient 479 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,280 every 10 minutes. Notice I said comfortable 480 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,280 because I'm not trying to cram people in there. 481 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,880 But part of that's efficiency. And you already brought up the 482 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,120 describe in the exam room. That's one of the ways so that 483 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,120 when you're through with the exam, everything has been 484 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,840 scribed. All you have to do is check it 485 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,680 over. And that includes, let's say you 486 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,720 have a pet who came in with AGI upset and you figure let's try a 487 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,960 bland diet on them. You can also say please include 488 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,240 brand diet in release documents. It's already done. 489 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,960 So it can make it so that veterinary medicine can be more 490 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,240 efficient and therefore available. 491 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,520 Also, the diagnostic tools, let's say you, as long as your 492 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,760 clients will accept this, let's say the pet is scanned as it 493 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,080 comes in the door and you just know your pet has been rubbing 494 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,480 their eyes and whatnot, but your pet was scamming. 495 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,160 It came the door and the AI programs putting in here, These 496 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,640 are things we might consider this pet and glaucoma is one of 497 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,200 them. So before you even go in the 498 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,760 room, you're considering the fact that this pet may have 499 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,120 glaucoma. So you can now do have the 500 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,240 appropriate tests, you can more efficiently bring it done. 501 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,720 You probably can even have it so that you're, if somebody on your 502 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,920 veterinary team, your veterinary technician or technologist can 503 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,640 actually do the ocular pressures for you. 504 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,360 So when you come in there and say, OK, we'll see what the 505 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,080 problem is, you're looking at the red eyes and we've confirmed 506 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,680 your pet has glaucoma. But it's early enough. 507 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,760 When we can do something, we're going to try and bring the 508 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,080 pressures down medically. So that's one of the ways. 509 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,280 And I'm not talking about science fiction. 510 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,360 I'm talking about the tools that are available today. 511 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,320 But we need to get them in the hands of veterinarians. 512 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:56,120 I do not feel that a virtual VCPR is ready today, but imagine 513 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,560 we have a pet who may have a cardiac problem or even a 514 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,240 seizure problem, and you have a body sensor on them so that the 515 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,560 family knows there's a sign that Fluffy is having a problem right 516 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,000 now. We need to get them in. 517 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,120 Or you may even get a call from your veterinary team saying 518 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,720 we're noticing that Fluffy's having cardiac arrhythmias, and 519 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,400 why don't we schedule you for an appointment tonight if that's 520 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,960 good for you. And the client may say, can we 521 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,000 do it tomorrow morning? From what we're seeing right 522 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,280 here, Fluffy's doing good. But yeah, come on in. 523 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,040 Tomorrow morning, we'll have a spot for you. 524 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,840 So you see, that veterinary health care team is using that 525 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,840 AI and that transponder system, and the family's good because 526 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,840 they know now that everybody's going back to the office for 527 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,040 work. Their pet is still being 528 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,440 observed even when they're not there. 529 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,080 I think I've heard of that a little bit in large animal 530 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,600 medicine. So they'll have cattle swallow. 531 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,240 It's like a massive pill and it just sits. 532 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,320 You know what I'm talking about. Yes, there is a name for. 533 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:04,120 It what is that? Dairy medicine is probably the 534 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:10,600 most advanced form of Tele of yeah, telemedicine that we have 535 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,680 in veterinary medicine. Not only will they be managed 536 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,520 managing and monitoring what's happening, going on with the 537 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,160 rumen, but they're able to see what's their gait like, what's 538 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,000 their body weight like, what's their milk production. 539 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,000 They can identify if mastitis is showing up long before we can 540 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,160 spot it. So you can treat it earlier, get 541 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,920 it cleared up really quickly. And they've been doing this for 542 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,000 over 10 years. So AI in dairy medicine will 543 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,800 probably be in Mars before we are. 544 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,600 Dairy medicine is amazing. I remember when I learned about 545 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:51,240 them separating sperm cells and that blew my mind because then 546 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,800 human medicine took their technology and started using it, 547 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,160 not for the same purpose, but I think for like Cancer Research. 548 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,520 That's what I've heard. Just a whole sort of things, 549 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,520 because dairy medicine, it's so much further ahead. 550 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,240 Right. Agriculture has always been on 551 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,760 the cutting edge of basically science, not just medicine. 552 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,200 And veterinary medicine is one of the places it has made. 553 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,480 It has allowed dairy to become an extremely efficient business 554 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,680 by using these tools that we have now. 555 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,880 And on top of that, one veterinarian can oversee 556 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,200 thousands of cows, multiple farms from their office. 557 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,320 And you don't the veterinarian doesn't even have to be looking 558 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,240 at because they'll have a team member today such and such as 559 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,120 monitoring these. And they're calling the 560 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,600 veterinarian saying we're having a problem on farm #26. 561 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,400 Just such a broad scope. It's interesting thinking about 562 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,280 like animals potentially having like dairy. 563 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360 Kettle already have them monitors on them for health. 564 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,720 And are there ways to regulate to know that AI is actually 565 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,720 catching the right things in these animals? 566 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,040 Or I guess that's where the veterinarians come in. 567 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,720 That's where the veterinarians coming in. 568 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,480 We have to be sure that somebody's checking and say yes, 569 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,480 this looks reason more this dad is going skew even there's a new 570 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,679 disease showing up or something not right being picked up. 571 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:21,199 So you've heard me say it at least twice or anytime. 572 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,960 Just going to go back keep the human in the loop. 573 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,400 I mean, I'm a radiologist. We use AI to help diagnose 574 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,760 things. But here's the thing. 575 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,080 Human medicine is spending hundreds of millions, if not 576 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,440 billions of dollars to develop artificial intelligence, 577 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,960 veterinary medicine. We're spending hundreds of 578 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,440 thousands, maybe millions of dollars to develop it. 579 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,719 So it's not parody in what's being spent. 580 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,440 But in human medicine, we cannot have an algorithm, say, examine 581 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,600 the brain and another algorithm examine the skull, another 582 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,440 algorithm examine the heart and the body of so an algorithm for 583 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,200 each body part. In veterinary medicine, we're 584 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,440 trying to make one algorithm that can evaluate the whole 585 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,480 body, but realize dogs have 50 different body composition 586 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,920 variations where people, and yes, this is oversimplification, 587 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,840 but imagine people who have small and medium and large. 588 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600 So why is it they can't do that in human medicine, but we're 589 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,280 dealing in veterinary medicine? That's one of the places you 590 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,400 need to keep an eye on those folks who are doing this because 591 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,880 it's not going to work. You're going to put a bias in 592 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,000 there for that German Shepherd that doesn't match that 593 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,880 dachshund vertebral heart scores. 594 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,480 One of the reasons that many people started to mistrust it is 595 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,720 because they were built for something like a Beagle and was 596 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,640 telling us that Belgium Mahuwahs all had big hearts. 597 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,760 Well, no, Belgium Mahuwah is a unique talk in itself. 598 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,720 So that's why I like trending. You take information from that 599 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,080 same pet and it trends from that pet. 600 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,320 So if it starts changing from today, in over six months, a 601 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,880 year, you see it change. You know it's what's happening 602 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,360 inside that pet, so there's different ways of addressing it. 603 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,200 Answering your questions or mine. 604 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,880 Just rambling. You are giving the best answers 605 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,280 ever. I am learning so much. 606 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560 Actually, I wanted to talk about a point you made earlier. 607 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,080 So you were talking about the kids playing with drones and 608 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,960 you're like, those would make great veterinarians. 609 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,720 It makes me think a lot about diversity in the field because a 610 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,720 lot of people I go to vet school with, we had similar 611 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:31,960 backgrounds, like we grew up with animals. 612 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,040 I grew up on a very small horse farm, even though I'm in the 613 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,960 suburbs of Saint Louis. So my goals are like mixed 614 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,040 animal and also relief work around the world, dabbling in 615 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,160 everything, including leadership. 616 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,040 And a lot of people are like me. Do you think this AI, in 617 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,720 bringing technology into veterinary medicine, could make 618 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,920 more people want to become veterinarians from all sorts of 619 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,680 backgrounds? I think we have to let those 620 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,920 folks who are tech savvy know that they have the skills to 621 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,480 become a veterinarian. What used to be required to be a 622 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,680 veterinarian and this is even before your time is you grew up 623 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,760 in a dairy farm, you're going to become a veterinarian. 624 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,920 Now it's a matter of are you tech savvy? 625 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,520 Can we teach you because what what a veterinarian needs to do? 626 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,240 We don't know. Just think about the fact 1992 627 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:30,840 New York City people were dying of an undiagnosed encephalitis. 628 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,800 A veterinarian at the Bronx Zoo, a veterinary pathologist, 629 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,040 recognized that there were wild birds dying in her zoo and that 630 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,600 her collection was starting to show signs of an encephalitis 631 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,160 and she had a suspicion. She took samples. 632 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,320 She sent them to the CDC for confirmation. 633 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,760 The CDC told her we do not process veterinary samples. 634 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,320 Luckily, she was a very persistent woman. 635 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,160 She sent samples to several places, including some people 636 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,160 she knew in the military as well as Davis, and said, these are my 637 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,920 suspicions, Would you please confirm? 638 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,960 And it came back with a novel encephalitis virus. 639 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,200 That was when West Nile disease was first diagnosed in the 640 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,840 United States. And then she contacted the New 641 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,160 York Health Department and said, I think you need to check 642 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,400 everybody that you're seeing for West Nile disease. 643 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,120 And here's my confirmation. Now, if you read some of the 644 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,720 things, he'll talk about how the the human physicians diagnosed 645 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,360 West Nile disease. They did. 646 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,960 But it was with the the really the efforts of a veterinarian 647 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,920 that it became possible. Why am I saying that? 648 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:42,320 Because people do not expect that a veterinarian was the one 649 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,240 that probably saved lots of people's lives because she was 650 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:51,360 persistent, saw something from a zoonotic disease that was not 651 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,040 reported in the United States and pursued it. 652 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,640 That's what we need. Veterinarians who are going to 653 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,080 step out of what is the typical path and be persistent and 654 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,720 realize that they may be the only ones that have that site, 655 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:07,560 that forward site for what's happening. 656 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:12,240 This could reach underrepresented students and 657 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,040 people with new ways of thinking. 658 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:19,440 Not just you grew up on a farm, you grew up with animals, you 659 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,480 would make a good veterinarian instead. 660 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,800 Maybe they don't have as much animal experience, but they know 661 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,480 the welfare metrics and their tech savvy at the same time. 662 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,840 Correct. So who was an underrepresented 663 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,000 individual today? Be honest, it's men. 664 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,520 Very true. They attract more men into the 665 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,480 profession because we need people who are interested in 666 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,200 those or other types of things. I don't know, there may be 667 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,800 something different tomorrow, but until I went to this drone 668 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,280 competition, it didn't strike me. 669 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,840 This is a perfectly fertile area to try and get people interested 670 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,280 in veterinary medicine because of their tech skills. 671 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,000 So and. Majority of the tech industry 672 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,280 are dominated by men. It just is. 673 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,640 And so that might bring some of the numbers back because the 674 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,000 trend of it being, let's see, is the profession 80% women now. 80 675 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,800 to 85, yeah, that's graduating. But you see, it's not even 676 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,520 bringing them back. It's a matter of showing them 677 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,680 there's a crossover industry here for you. 678 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640 So do what you're doing, but bring it over to us. 679 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,480 And with more diversity in the field, there's just there's so 680 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,600 much more brought to the table too. 681 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,200 Diversity leads to innovation. Fortune 500 companies have 682 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,800 proved that if they have non diverse workforce versus a 683 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,400 diverse workforce, the workforce has divorced. 684 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,320 The workforce that is diverse is 30% more innovative. 30% Wow. 685 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,560 That's incredible. So what voices do you think need 686 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,640 to be included in these conversations about bringing 687 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,960 more technology into veterinary medicine? 688 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,520 The general public, youth, current adults, if they want to 689 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,280 look into it and try. I think it might you, there are 690 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,160 some schools doing, I think the schools because really this is 691 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,640 where it starts. It starts at the schools saying, 692 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,640 OK, just because this is the way we've been doing it for the last 693 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,440 50 years, isn't the main way mean that we need to keep doing 694 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,040 it that way for the next 50 years. 695 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,880 So they need to look at and say, what is it we're trying to 696 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,560 attract? We're trying to attract 697 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,360 diversity of thought, diversity of mind. 698 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,240 How do we find that? Well, we always go over here. 699 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,000 Farm shows going on in Pennsylvania right now. 700 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,800 Great. Here you can see horses, cows, 701 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,440 sheep, goats, go to that robotics fair, go to that drone 702 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,480 fair, talk to people, try and get them interested. 703 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,120 We have to go to places that we haven't traditionally gone 704 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,240 before. That's really what it comes down 705 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,920 to. I have learned a lot from this 706 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,840 talk, not only about what technology can do for us, but 707 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,200 also like what we can do for it and how much time it saves. 708 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,160 I really see lifestyle changes because of AI coming into 709 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:13,080 veterinary medicine and also the ability to catch cases so much 710 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,440 quicker in advance is the best form of medicine. 711 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,720 I mean, is what I've learned so far is preventative medicine. 712 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,680 Correct. Preventative medicine, I'm going 713 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,600 to pick one particular organ of the body and say we don't do 714 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,360 enough and it could probably have a big impact and that's the 715 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,800 mouth. Dental. 716 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,840 If we did more preventative medicine on dental disease, we 717 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,440 would most likely reduce cardiac disease, renal disease, liver 718 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,120 disease, and cancer. It's one organ of the body. 719 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,360 I think AI can help us do a much better job on dental disease. 720 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,440 That's just one example, there's others. 721 00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,240 But if we were going to concentrate on one thing, I'd 722 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,960 say concentrate on AI and dental disease and you would have such 723 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,920 a big impact. That's amazing. 724 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,440 I actually I saw at our orthodontist, like I went back 725 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,120 in to get a retainer and they had this, it almost looked like 726 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,440 a flashlight, like a scope, and they took it inside the mouth 727 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,160 and then on the screen it appeared a scan of your teeth 728 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,400 that it had like drawn up. And my first thought was, wow, 729 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,680 we do not have that in the veterinary clinic. 730 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,240 If you could scan their mouth, which for most pets, I mean 731 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,240 normally you look at their dentition when you have an exam, 732 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,160 but if there were logs of it, the difference that you could 733 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,000 make in the future would be absolutely amazing. 734 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,440 Yeah, but realize that most of your dental disease is 735 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,880 subjingible. So if we can have a radio 736 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:57,000 graphic examination of the roots, the subjingible portion 737 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,240 of the teeth and had AI do a quick evaluation, that's what 738 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,160 you want to follow. And then set up a good hygiene 739 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,520 program. So that pet who nails living to 740 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:15,320 1012, maybe 15 years may be able to live to 15/18/20 years of 741 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,440 age. And we need to remind people 742 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,520 that we do have a lot of pets. Just think about the African 743 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,280 grey parrot who I've had one who's been passed down through 744 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,000 three wills. But we, we want our pets are a 745 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,320 vital part of our family and we probably go through multiple 746 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,360 pets in our family just because their life spans have been 747 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,480 shorter and should I say shortened. 748 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,360 And I think there's things we can do to make it so that they 749 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,160 do have a longer, healthier life. 750 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,280 And I I know that technology is part of what's going to do it. 751 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,720 So I have one last question for you. 752 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,200 What do you hope to see in the future of veterinary medicine 753 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,480 and AI technology? We're just in the field in 754 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,280 general. And how do you do that as AVMA 755 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,000 President? Big question and a short time to 756 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,560 answer it. Well, you know, we've kind of 757 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:15,200 been hitting it diversity, if we can help everybody understand 758 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,320 that their unique, their uniqueness can contribute to the 759 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,880 healthcare of the world. Cause I've already said how 760 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,120 veterinarians are so important in One Health. 761 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,400 And remember, we've been talking about medical practice, but 762 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,800 veterinarians are so important in public health. 763 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,840 They're important in research. I'm hoping that we can use AI so 764 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,480 that we can reach out to more people and help everybody know 765 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,840 how important they are. I have six months left in my 766 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,600 presidency and totaled 18 months left on the ABMA board of 767 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,120 directors. So I'm doing everything I can to 768 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:58,400 be a loud voice, but there's so much that we all need to do. 769 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,760 And part of that is it's like the reason I went to the 770 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,320 reservation was I wanted to know what they're doing and how we 771 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,200 can interact with them. Not how we can necessarily give 772 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,280 them something, but how what they're doing can give us. 773 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,160 And that's when, I'll be honest, I learned something about what 774 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,240 kids are into today. You know, I every time I say 775 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:25,800 kids or youngsters, I say, Oh my God, how old am I? 776 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,280 But it's really we're, we're talking about teenagers, people 777 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,120 younger than you. I know I'm 23. 778 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,800 I still feel like I'm 16, but I'm not. 779 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,040 I'm an adult. I'm not convinced yet. 780 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,680 You continue to think that you're 16. 781 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,200 That's great. But what I'm saying is we need 782 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:51,120 to use technology to reach people of all ages. 783 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,800 So it's not just the 16 year old, but it's the 60 or the 90 784 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,640 year old. Technology can help us to do 785 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,600 that. And in doing that, we can help 786 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,560 healthcare be more available to the general public. 787 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,320 That's amazing. I am very excited for your last 788 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,960 six months of your presidency. I am sad that I only got to meet 789 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:25,600 you in your last six months, but I am sticking around with Savma 790 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,280 for a while, so hopefully I'll see you right a lot. 791 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,600 I'll just say to the podcast, thank you all so much for 792 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,240 listening to the amazing Doctor Bailey AVMA President. 793 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,960 I certainly have learned a lot, and I hope you have too.