1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,760 Hey y'all, welcome to the Vet Files. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,320 Today we're joined by Doctor Emily King and we're so excited 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,240 to talk to her today. She is the founder of All Star 4 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:19,680 Veterinary Clinic and if you haven't seen her on social 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,440 media, go check her out. What is your username, Doctor 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,160 King? Doctor Emily King is really 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,880 hard. Yeah, so hard, just, you know, 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,080 trying to sound that one out and go check Instagram and all of 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,200 the different platforms. We love watching her content and 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,800 thought we would have a chat today. 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,120 So, Doctor King, could you tell us a little bit about your 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,280 background and how you got to where you are today? 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:41,920 Yeah, thanks for having me. You too. 14 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,400 I'm excited to revisit, you know, a couple of the topics and 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,240 and talk tonight. So thanks for having me 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,640 basically. So you want to know how I got to 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,760 where I am currently? Well, I went to undergraduate 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,440 school at James Madison University and that and I played 19 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,560 basketball in college and then I went from there to the 20 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,200 University of Tennessee and graduated in 1996. 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,360 So this is 30 years in May of since graduation. 22 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,160 So, you know, we were visiting briefly before the podcast and I 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,800 was saying I think I had like 5657 people, something like that 24 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,760 in my graduating class. So I'm sure everyone is going to 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,920 be celebrating in May that we've made it 30 years. 26 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:24,600 So yeah, that's kind of never knew I was going to do small 27 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,720 animal medicine. Originally had plans to do 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,360 marine mammal medicine and then figured out that no, I was not 29 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,880 going to do that. So I needed to figure out 30 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,440 something else to do with my degree, and that was small 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,520 animal medicine. So yeah, a non traditional route 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,160 to where I currently AM. Yeah, and I'm sure you've told 33 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,240 that story. I know you told us on a PVMA 34 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,960 about a million times, but just those who didn't know, I think 35 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,400 talking about everybody's journey when they come on is 36 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,880 really cool. Everybody's is genuinely so 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,880 different. Every single person we've talked 38 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,200 to has had some different variation. 39 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,560 Even if you all end up in small animal medicine, which is the 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,200 more common. Raul, everybody has such an 41 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,240 interesting story of how they got there. 42 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:11,360 So what would you say is the best part of founding a clinic 43 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,480 and kind of running your own show? 44 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,960 Yeah, I mean, there's so many great things, right? 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,840 I think when you own your own clinic, the the good things far 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,000 outweigh the bad things that come from owning your own 47 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,840 business. That's something that we preach 48 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,880 to not only, you know, our own children, you know, being an 49 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,920 entrepreneur and owning something, you know, is, is a 50 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:35,280 way to financial stability, but also it's just it's, it's a 51 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,160 unique way to live. We also talk to the people 52 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,720 inside the clinic about that. Like, hey, listen, you know, if 53 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,720 you have ownership, you know, interest, whether it be with 54 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,280 veterinary medicine or something else, you know, we have one 55 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,800 Doctor Who her husband and her own a another business that 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,680 she's also running. And so, you know, it is it's, 57 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,120 it's a fun way to live. It's a fun way to exist as a 58 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,840 professional, if you will. And so yeah, I think I've 59 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,720 wandered off on a tangent, so I don't remember the original 60 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,720 question, but I think I think it's definitely worth owning 61 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,320 your own business. The pros definitely outweigh the 62 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,320 cons. What are those learning curves? 63 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,200 Because you know, Gretel and I have been talking about this, 64 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,120 but I was talking about maybe getting an MBA or something in 65 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,920 the hopes of owning a practice one day. 66 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,640 And that's just one of those things where I'm like, are the 67 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,560 skills gained from a degree in all the paperwork and the school 68 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,280 work the same as the skills that you're going to earn from just 69 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,280 going in, diving in head 1st and figuring it out? 70 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,400 You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think the my 71 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,040 favorite part of being an owner is autonomy, right? 72 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,320 It is your thing. You're deciding what's happening 73 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,360 and and the direction it's going like it is the buck stops with 74 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,480 you. Like it is either as pretty as 75 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,920 you want it to be or as ugly as you let it be, right. 76 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,960 So I think that's the cool part in the challenging part. 77 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,080 You know, I don't, there's no way on this planet that I would 78 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,360 have been able to run All Star Veterinary Clinic from a 79 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,920 business perspective. That is that was not something 80 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,640 that I was, I'm going to even pretend to be talented about. 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,880 Like I understood just enough, you know, you know, so I had, my 82 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,360 husband has an MBA and a law degree and had a degree in 83 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,760 finance. And so he ran the whole business 84 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,320 side of the practice. If he had not been there, I 85 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,800 would have absolutely needed some form of other education 86 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,360 because back when I was in school, they really didn't have 87 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,920 a ton of business classes. They had a few that you could 88 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,040 take as an elective, you know, but it wasn't a focus like it is 89 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,920 now. And so definitely having some 90 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,240 additional training in terms of what does it look like to run a 91 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,240 business, what should you be focused on? 92 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,000 You know are important assets that I would acquire for sure if 93 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,360 it was me. That's amazing. 94 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,240 I can understand. I was pointing to myself during 95 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,760 that because I have no business skill whatsoever. 96 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,440 I wish I didn't have to charge a dime to anyone, but that's not 97 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,200 realistic. Exactly. 98 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:00,760 Exactly. I'd give away the farm if it was 99 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,600 possible, right? I mean, it's just one of those 100 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,120 things, yeah. Exactly. 101 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,360 And so I'd love to hear about it. 102 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,680 So you were talking about autonomy when you came to 103 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,680 University of Illinois. You spoke about your favorite 104 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,840 books and how you constantly use like your standards in your 105 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,800 clinic for when things get crazy. 106 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:23,400 One of my favorite memories is when you spoke about the first 107 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,120 patient of the day still gets treated the same as the last 108 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,640 patient. Could you describe experience 109 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,280 where you felt you had to instill those values? 110 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,280 What made you set up this organization for your own 111 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:40,960 clinic? I am for better or for worse, 112 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:47,160 like I worry what people think. And so which is not necessarily 113 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:48,680 like a great trait to have, right? 114 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,960 So like, for better or for worse, that's not the best 115 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,640 trait, right? I mean, you know, because it, it 116 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,080 creates a lot of stress and anxiety if you're constantly 117 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,840 worried about what the next person is thinking or what your 118 00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,840 clients always thinking, you know, that's important. 119 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:03,400 And that's what drove me to, to create processes a certain way 120 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,840 because I wanted to be the best and, and I was very competitive. 121 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,840 And so then therefore, when they left, I wanted them telling 122 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:14,600 their their neighbor about us or if they saw somebody in church 123 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,040 and they were talking about how their pet was treated, then I 124 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,400 wanted it to be a certain way. And so that was my initial 125 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,720 motivation, you know, behind doing it. 126 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,680 I think that ultimately the processes and the consistency to 127 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,680 which the processes were performed created a good work 128 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,560 environment and ultimately pushed the clinic the direction 129 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,040 that it needed to go. So it was a little bit by 130 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,960 accident, you know, but as but somewhat intentional. 131 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,760 You know, once I figured out that that's actually what needed 132 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,560 to be happening, then it became very intentional in terms of 133 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,040 what we were trying to do. I think it's a great point that 134 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,400 Gretel brought up and that you brought up about not not peer 135 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,080 pressure, but the pressure people pleasing, right? 136 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,880 Like everybody for the most part in Vetmed is somewhat of an 137 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,320 empath. You kind of have to be, if you 138 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,880 want to, you know, work with animals and listen to what 139 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,360 they're saying without talking, et cetera, et cetera. 140 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,000 Just earlier I did make a phone call that I did not want to make 141 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,960 to another vet and I was like, I put it off for maybe a a week or 142 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,120 two and I said I don't know. And I really number one, 143 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,080 Michaela, you don't put it off, you do it. 144 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,760 You do the hard thing first and then get it off your plate. 145 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,760 You just spent a week and 1/2 with all that hanging over your 146 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:32,880 head. Oh my God. 147 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,560 I know. And now the conversation's still 148 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,520 not over. She still has to call me back 149 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:42,960 and work and I'm like, oh and I'm so scared of making or 150 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,280 offending her or upsetting her. And it wasn't even though I was 151 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,440 the victim of this situation, I was like, I'm not, I'm angry at 152 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:51,600 you. I'm just trying to, you know, 153 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,200 fix things. And so it's been difficult for 154 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,720 me to like, man up and like say, hey, I think something went 155 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,240 wrong and I want to fix it. It took me like a week and a 156 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,560 half. My heart's beating out of my 157 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,400 chest. And so that is something I 158 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,480 struggle with. That is the scariest part. 159 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,480 It's not even the finances and whatever. 160 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,920 I'm more than willing to educate myself on that. 161 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,640 It's the character building that I have to do when it comes to, 162 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,320 you know, having a backbone and saying no when you need to say 163 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,560 no and having boundaries and standing up for self. 164 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,240 Because I think I'm pretty good at standing up for other people 165 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,920 or for pets and etc. So I don't know. 166 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,600 I mean, do you have any experience where you just, we're 167 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,520 fighting to make yourself do something like that? 168 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,559 Oh my. Gosh, for years, absolutely. 169 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,240 I mean, I was like a, I don't know what, like a limp noodle 170 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,960 when it came to conflict initially. 171 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,400 Like, don't you know, like I just hated it. 172 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,040 And I wouldn't have crucial conversations with people. 173 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,840 You know, there was there was massive inconsistency from an 174 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,560 accountability perspective, you know, because I didn't know what 175 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:56,160 the hell I was doing. And so, you know, it was like 176 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,720 and there and, and you know, and you can feel right than tension 177 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,600 and things like that. And you're like, this is not how 178 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,800 it's supposed to be. And then you start to slowly 179 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,720 realize that then you are the problem. 180 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,280 And as long as you start to realize that you're the problem, 181 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,720 then you can fix that, right? So you lead yourself first, you 182 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,120 work on yourself 1st and then you can lead other people. 183 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,440 And so then as you start to kind of peel away the layers of the 184 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,000 onion, you realize really how bad you actually were. 185 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,160 And then you just vow to never be that bad again. 186 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,400 So like, I mean, I think, you know, everybody has those 187 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,800 experiences. You know, I would say the first, 188 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,560 you know, when I worked for other people, it was very easy 189 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:36,880 for me to leave because I just did what was expected and I 190 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,200 treated people the way I would want to be treated. 191 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,600 And I did all the things that you would think you would do. 192 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,360 I showed up on time. I wasn't late. 193 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,360 I didn't call in sick, you know, like, I'd be like, I did all the 194 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,640 things that made me valuable, you know? 195 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,840 And then, oh, by the way, then I could practice veterinary 196 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,280 medicine, you know, So it was like, so I was then just 197 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:00,800 essentially seen as a leader. Well, that's all fine, but that 198 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,520 doesn't translate to ownership necessarily. 199 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,440 So then I own. Then when you open a practice, 200 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,200 you're like, I had no idea what I'm doing. 201 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,680 Like, how do I get all these people to do the things they 202 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,520 actually need to do? How do they, how do they learn 203 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,240 them all, first of all? And then how do they buy into 204 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,120 the fact that they're important? And then once they know how to 205 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,520 do them and once they know they're important, why in the 206 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,440 heck are they still not doing them, you know, And then what do 207 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,600 I need to do about that? You know, I thought people just 208 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,080 would do what they were supposed to do. 209 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,560 That's just not how it works. And so then being able to learn 210 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,800 how to do that. So. 211 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,680 Yeah, I was really bad at it initially for sure. 212 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:38,120 There was definitely a gazillion. 213 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:40,720 You could go ask anybody that worked for me probably the first 214 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,160 six years in the clinic slide. I mean, like, what was she like? 215 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,400 It was a disaster. I mean, I wasn't mean or 216 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,120 anything like that. I just motored along, but with 217 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,680 not the same intentionality. Yeah. 218 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:54,480 And I think kind of on the same topic, something that I had been 219 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,640 thinking about and kind of talking with my classmates and 220 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,040 it was a topic brought up during classes. 221 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,680 And you don't have to say your opinion on these things. 222 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,960 But when it comes to moral dilemmas, you know, there's a 223 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,000 lot of discussion about should you as a vet be doing ear 224 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,880 cropping, tail docking, etcetera, etcetera. 225 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,160 And again, you're welcome to share your opinion, not asking 226 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,200 you to, but how do you stand strong and say, well, I don't 227 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,320 believe in this, but I will do it. 228 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,560 So you don't do it at home or do you do it at all? 229 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,680 Like what do you think about handling those types of 230 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:28,160 situations? Yeah. 231 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,240 I mean, that's really difficult because you are trying to serve 232 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,840 two different purposes. You're trying to get the client 233 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,040 to change and do something that they are not wanting to do, 234 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,280 right. So like you want them to do 235 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,920 something different than what they originally think they want 236 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,720 to do. And then you also are trying to 237 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,440 manage the healthcare of the pet. 238 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,880 So like you mentioned, well, I don't want them to go someplace 239 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,880 else and get something really badly done or botched done or 240 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,240 they themselves try to do it, you know, or something like 241 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,920 that. You know, now we have a pet who 242 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,800 has, if I had just done it, it would have been fine, you know, 243 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,680 kind of a thing. And so I think that really 244 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,680 you're not going to, in my opinion, as now that I've gotten 245 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,120 older, I think that you genuinely are not going to 246 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,880 change people's opinions about anything until you change their 247 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,520 hearts. So maybe spending time. 248 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,480 So what we try to do is focus on spending time. 249 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Why is it that you want to have this done? 250 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,000 Because sometimes we're assuming that they're doing it for a 251 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,280 particular reason and they're not really, it's because their 252 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:27,960 neighbors said this. And then once they learn 253 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,560 information, then they're like, oh geez. 254 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,880 Like I've had people come in and be like we amputate, you know, 255 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,360 the 1st digit on my dog's front feet and I'm like, well I mean 256 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,440 like we can but why do you want to do it? 257 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,560 Well, you know, my neighbor said that he had a hunting dog and 258 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:47,360 they always tore the dew claws off, you know, like, so I 259 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,280 thought I should get him removed. 260 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,920 And I was like, that is worse than the spay that I'm about to 261 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,600 do, you know, as far as discomfort for the patient, you 262 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,480 know, So if you want me to, you know, we can do that and we can 263 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:57,720 make your pet as comfortable as possible. 264 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,880 But when in seven, you know, over the next seven days, this 265 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,160 is what's going to bother your dog. 266 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,120 The amputation site, not the space site. 267 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,400 Are you sure that's something? No, no, never mind. 268 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,560 I don't want to do it, you know, So I think just talking clients 269 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,440 through the same thing with declaws, you know, like, you 270 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,640 know, have you tried this? Have you tried this? 271 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:13,640 Have you tried this? Have you tried this? 272 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,000 Have you tried this, have you tried this? 273 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,840 And there are so many different circular conversations, right, 274 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,640 where people are like, well, you shouldn't declaw a cat. 275 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:27,160 And, you know, declawed cats end up in the Humane Society. 276 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:32,160 Or do they have, you know, long term pain, you know, and that's 277 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,560 why we shouldn't do it. And, you know, but if you if you 278 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,320 outlaw it, then are cats going to end up in the Humane Society 279 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,080 because owners can't keep them inside? 280 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,160 Or are now we saying it's OK to let cats go outside because 281 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,800 that's the natural environment where we've been preaching all 282 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,200 along, Cats should be inside. So like, are we going to now be 283 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,920 OK with cats being outside? Because if they can't be inside 284 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,920 because they're being destructive, then are we allowed 285 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,000 to let them outside? Like, so I think that I think 286 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,960 it, the blanket statements are where people get themselves into 287 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,320 trouble. And I think veterinarians in 288 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,080 general, to some degree, have to be comfortable having the 289 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,440 conversations in the Gray zones. And not every decision is going 290 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,640 to be right for every owner, you know? 291 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,360 So I do think you yourself have to be comfortable with whatever 292 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,640 you're doing and you should never be convinced to do 293 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,160 something that you yourself aren't comfortable doing because 294 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,560 the outcome is is likely to be not good, right? 295 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,480 It's it's unlikely to end up positive. 296 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,040 You know, that's just kind of karma. 297 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,920 So like, you should never be convinced to do something that 298 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,240 you don't believe in. Amazing, such an amazing 299 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,360 response. I wanted to say you started off 300 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,000 talking about you cannot change people's opinions until they 301 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,200 change their heart. I personally have had a very 302 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,800 hard time with this, watching so much misinformation be spread 303 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,680 online and people not trusting veterinarians. 304 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,360 And it's almost like people would rather believe someone 305 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,400 who's unqualified with a theory, with something magical that they 306 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,040 think will fix their problem versus someone who will go 307 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,320 through eight years of schooling minimum. 308 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,600 I'd love to hear, like, what do you think causes our society to 309 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,920 go try to find other resources than veterinarians? 310 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,440 And how do we combat this? Oh. 311 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,720 Gosh, it's a really hard thing that's going on right now. 312 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,880 I mean, I think that veterinarians are under fire, 313 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,720 right? So from outside the industry, 314 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,040 but then also inside the industry as well, I feel like 315 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,280 there's veterinarians attacking each other. 316 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,920 You know, people in private practice are attacking people 317 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,280 with corporate partners. I mean, like, it's just like, 318 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,040 like what is happening? Like why? 319 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,960 I don't understand, Aren't we all in this together? 320 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,400 What's going on? And so you know, the way, in my 321 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,520 opinion, the way you combat it is if you're in your community 322 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,360 anyways, certainly as a person owning a clinic, for example, 323 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,440 you should be putting out accurate information so that 324 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,360 your clients have accurate information coming from someone 325 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,600 locally so that they feel like they have reliable information 326 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,280 so that they don't have to seek out information elsewhere. 327 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,520 But I do think it's human nature to, and the way the algorithms 328 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,240 work on Instagram, right, they're going to keep feeding 329 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,760 you the same thing. And there's affirmation bias 330 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,720 that's happening. So if you believe that D claws 331 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:20,920 are bad or whatever, I don't know. 332 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,080 I'm just picking that because we just talked about it then and 333 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,400 you watch something that reiterates that that's what's 334 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,280 going to show up. And then you're just going to 335 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,280 continue to be fed that narrative. 336 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,560 You know, which we all agreed, no, we don't really want to be 337 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,000 doing D claws. I'm not saying that that's what 338 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,120 we want to be doing, but I'm just using that as an example. 339 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,520 You're being fed that narrative over and over and over and over 340 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,800 again. Or kibble is bad. 341 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,800 That's a better one, right? Kibble's bad. 342 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,480 I did that post where the guy was like, there's something more 343 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:51,440 deadly in your cabinet. I saw that something more deadly 344 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,600 in your cabinet than chocolate and grapes. 345 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,880 And I was like, OK, I want to know what what is because those 346 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,000 are actually deadly. And the guy was like, they ended 347 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,280 up being like forever before I got to the answer that dawned on 348 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:03,360 me. I'm like, he's talking about 349 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,119 kibble. And I was like, actually, as a 350 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,319 matter of fact, no, that is not more deadly than grapes and 351 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,440 chocolate. Like, it's crap like that that, 352 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,560 you know, and then once you watch that once it's going to 353 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,680 show up on your kibble. Kibble's bad, kibble's bad, 354 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,720 kibble's bad, you know, And so I think it's just human nature, 355 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,520 unfortunately. Once you have affirmation bias 356 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,480 or you get sucked into affirmation bias, then you're 357 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,160 you're looking for things to tell you that you're right, I 358 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,200 think. It's the whole like non kibble 359 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,720 food, if that's the choice you want to go and it's you talk to 360 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,680 a vet and etcetera, except like there's steps to be taken where 361 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,160 maybe you could look at that. OK, but I they love or hate the 362 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,400 ads that are like feeding your kibble is like sending your dog 363 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,360 to jail and I'm like feed them. Let's villainize everybody that 364 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:56,080 who, who has to maybe financially, who has to sit has 365 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,840 to. Because I'm the Hills food 366 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,160 representative for LSU for the class, we did a small animal 367 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,640 nutrition lab where the entire point was you went through and 368 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,880 they took 2 bags of feed, you know, good reputable brands. 369 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,480 Sometimes it was Hills, sometimes it's Purina, and then 370 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,360 sometimes it's Walmart brands. I don't know, just pick some 371 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,680 brands and they sat them side by side and they said go through 372 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,400 with this exact scenario. Calculate the resting energy 373 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,320 requirement and then tell me A how much of each food you would 374 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,840 need to feed per day. And then B, which one would be 375 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,680 better for this dog specific scenario? 376 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,000 Because it does change. And most of the time in this 377 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,680 scenario, the hills was like winning and somebody was like, I 378 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,320 don't know why you would ever feed anything other than hills. 379 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,080 And I was like, because it's expensive. 380 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,200 That doesn't mean that it's, you know, these other foods are bad. 381 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,000 It means maybe that's what's accessible. 382 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,280 My dogs back home get Purina and I'm the hills Rep, my cat gets 383 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,840 hills. Like it's a lot of factors 384 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,120 playing in. And so I was just having that 385 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,920 conversation about everybody uses, you know, spectrum of 386 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,440 care, spoke of scope of care, etcetera. 387 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,480 Like keep that in mind. I think even some of the 388 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,600 specialists and whatnot, once we get so far removed from the 389 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,960 clients and the people with pets and their base level 390 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,640 understanding of things, because I didn't know as much about 391 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,480 small animal nutrition as I do now a year ago. 392 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,120 How would I expect, you know, the people that are walking 393 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,800 through the door to know everything that I know without 394 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,080 me explaining something to them? So connect yourself, ground 395 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,960 yourself back. I know it happens with 396 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,160 specialists sometimes because their clients are the vets 397 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,240 sometimes. So then they're like, well, this 398 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,160 is the gold standard. Why would I do anything less 399 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,480 than the gold standard? And it's like, because that's 400 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,080 not the gold standard for everybody's budget, for 401 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,160 everybody's preferences. You know, that's one of the 402 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,320 hardest parts of that. Med in my opinion is working 403 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,600 with people not personality wise but finding the right solution 404 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,720 for everybody because like you said earlier, it's a lot of 405 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,200 working in Gray areas. Yeah, absolutely. 406 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,200 Yeah. I'd love to talk about a little 407 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,720 bit of how do you manage spectrum of care and your clinic 408 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,040 too. So we had a practitioner come in 409 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,480 the other day and this will get a little sad in a moment, told 410 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,120 us that the euthanasia cap on average is $1000. 411 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:23,280 So I've heard some from some veterinarians, they say, OK, 412 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,640 take the patient and no matter what versus sending them to the 413 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,280 ER where they're probably going to be euthanized or charged 2 to 414 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280 $3000. And I keep hearing these 415 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,280 opinions. What's either preserve the 416 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:40,880 veterinarians and their day and let them go home to their family 417 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,200 or save the clients some money? I just want to hear your 418 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,240 approach because you've owned a clinic before. 419 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,640 Yeah. So, you know, our rule of thumb 420 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,720 was we were not there on Saturdays and Sundays because 421 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,280 the clients gave us that. And with very little resistance, 422 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,720 we said if we're there, we're there. 423 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,760 So if somebody calls at 555 and says their dog, I don't know, is 424 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,440 whatever, laying on the ground and can't get up, then you were 425 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,480 there, you come in. So we would, we didn't turf a 426 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,320 lot because we were willing to. And this is where a spectrum of 427 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,920 care comes in. And I think this is where things 428 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,360 fell off the rails a little bit, right? 429 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,000 Where we were trying to provide a certain level of care and then 430 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,080 we were handcuffing ourselves. So people said you should not 431 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,920 have a patient overnight. You don't have anybody there 432 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,960 watching that patient. And it's like, well, I don't 433 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,600 know, like for 15 years we did it that way. 434 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,160 Like it's a pervo dog. Like we hooked it up to fluids. 435 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,560 It's not moving. It doesn't feel so well. 436 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,640 And then we're giving it our drugs and it's on a grate and 437 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,440 we're coming back into the morning and we're cleaning them 438 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,080 up and we're doing his treatments and whoa, there's 439 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,320 nothing wrong with that. You know, like, so why would we 440 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,960 take that patient and turf it? And then the owner incurred 441 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,160 $3000. We all know a dog, an owner who 442 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,880 has a part of a dog does not have any money. 443 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,320 So, you know, they never do. Why? 444 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,720 Like, so I think things kind of started to go off the rails a 445 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,240 little bit as you watch what was happening where people were like 446 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,280 saying that's not an OK method of treatment, keeping a 447 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,360 hospital, you know, and I would even have applicants ask me, do 448 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:25,080 you keep people? Do you keep people? 449 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,520 Do you keep animals in the hospital overnight when no one's 450 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,680 there? Like, yeah, we do surgery. 451 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,920 Some of them stay overnight. Like, yeah, they're here. 452 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,880 You know, and it kind of got where people didn't want that. 453 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,120 They don't want patients in that. 454 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,840 Well, you know, when you do that, you raise prices, you 455 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,800 know, I mean, you know, you send you raise expenses for owners. 456 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,600 I think my age group of veterinarian was exceptionally 457 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,080 good at Spectrum of Care. And here's why. 458 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,840 Because when we graduated, we had enough diagnostic tools 459 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,040 within the clinic, but not excessive diagnostic tools. 460 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:03,000 We really didn't have endoscopy and fluoroscopy and all these 461 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,720 other things that a lot of people have right now, you know, 462 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,000 and I mean, you know, you name it, you know, whatever, you 463 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,360 know, cold laser therapy, I mean like it adds up right on the 464 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,800 expense of all the of of the clinic. 465 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,720 We didn't have all that, but we had the things that we 466 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,960 absolutely needed. We had in house lab machine, 467 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,200 right, which was our biggest tool probably. 468 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,240 And we had an ultrasound machine. 469 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,320 The guy was very forward thinking at the time when I 470 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,720 graduated and he had we had radiology and so we were really 471 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,240 good at practicing spectrum of care and prices were what they 472 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,800 were. They weren't excessive because 473 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,800 we didn't have this high overhead. 474 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,160 And so we had to learn how to guess with the tools that we 475 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,840 had. Now you move forward through the 476 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,000 past 30 years and people have been clamoring for better 477 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,240 healthcare, more advanced healthcare for pets. 478 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,840 That's all fine and dandy and human grade healthcare, but that 479 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,000 comes with the cost and with an overhead. 480 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,160 And so now you guys as veterinarians are having to 481 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,080 navigate the guilt. I use that word. 482 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,960 I don't know if that's the correct word, but the guilt of 483 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,280 going, oh man, I have all these tools over here. 484 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,960 I should be using them, but I can't because the person can't 485 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,920 afford them. Where we didn't have that guilt. 486 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,800 We didn't even have dental radiographs, wasn't even a 487 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,600 standard of care. Like so like, you know, like it 488 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,320 was a, it was a different way of practicing, but in my opinion, 489 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,680 it was great because we didn't have any of these issues that we 490 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,600 have now. And so now we have human grade 491 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,560 healthcare and we don't have the infrastructure to support the 492 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,440 expense of human grade healthcare within clinics for 493 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,120 clients. And so because they're animals, 494 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,920 I mean, it is what it is. I don't know what this, I mean, 495 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,760 you know, they're not people. So, you know, does that mean 496 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,800 people shouldn't be able to get care for their dog? 497 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,520 No, but you're going to have to come up with some very creative 498 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,560 ways of accomplishing that because the clinic owner cannot 499 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,560 foot the bill. It will not work, you know, and 500 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,160 So what are you left with them, you know, so encouraging people 501 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,000 to use insurance and things like that, You know, as now 502 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,000 personally, I don't want insurance in our industry, a 503 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,640 significant, I guess, heavy-handed insurance feeling 504 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,640 in our company because in our industry, because they're going 505 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,320 to tell us how to practice medicine, right? 506 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,120 You know, where there was an example of a of a person I know 507 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,320 who went into a human hospital and there he had a kidney stone 508 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,600 and they they made it, the insurance made them treat him a 509 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,000 certain way first. And when that didn't work, then 510 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,080 they did it this other way. And he was like, why didn't you 511 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,200 just do it that way to begin with? 512 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,160 And he was like, because we're not allowed. 513 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,360 I was like, Oh my God, like, talk about making me stab my 514 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,160 eyes out. Can you imagine if it was like a 515 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720 bleeding hemo abdomen? And the insurance company's 516 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,040 like, well, you know, give him a transfusion first and see if it 517 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,800 stops. Can you imagine it would be a 518 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,160 disaster? I have. 519 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,840 Personally, a disaster, you know, going to the doctor and 520 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,880 saying I have this issue and I want this treatment or they 521 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,720 recommend this treatment. And then it's I think it took me 522 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,520 months to find like the right medication for something because 523 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,600 it was insurance saying, well, you haven't tried this one yet. 524 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,720 This lower level, cheaper one before we cover the more 525 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,080 expensive one, the gold standard, the thing that we know 526 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,080 will help you. But let's try the cheap one that 527 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:15,560 might help you. So I think, I think spectrum of 528 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,480 care is, is so doable in veterinary medicine. 529 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,800 You know, I honestly, I don't mind it at all, probably because 530 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,960 I grew up having to guess and then base my treatment changes, 531 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,200 changes in my treatment plan based off how the pet reacted, 532 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,280 you know what I mean? And what was what, what happened 533 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,760 with the pet when I chose to do this or this. 534 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,200 And then learning when I did do that and I had a pet that looked 535 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,760 like that, then I'm not going to do that again. 536 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,960 I'm going to do this instead, you know, like, I mean, using 537 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,840 all of those things to kind of predict and determine how you 538 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,000 practice medicine. Like I, that doesn't bother me 539 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,960 at all. It doesn't bother me when 540 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,600 somebody says I can't do any diagnostics. 541 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,160 I'm like, I'll guess I'll do it. Sign me up. 542 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,360 You know, like I don't have to interpret a lab panel now, 543 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,480 right? No, I mean, I'm just kidding. 544 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,960 But I mean, like, OK, it's fun. And I think that we need to get 545 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,120 back to that, that that's OK. It doesn't mean you're a bad 546 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,320 veterinarian. It doesn't mean, you know, like 547 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,160 you just need to meet the people where they are. 548 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:09,880 I think our job is to educate. Whatever they do with the 549 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,440 information, that's up to them, I think. 550 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,120 One of the interesting parts I already mentioned, you know, 551 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,880 it's not an issue per SE. It's just that when you go to a 552 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,560 vet school where you have access to, you know, some of the best 553 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,560 vets in the country, some of the most trained, some of the most 554 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,440 educated people. And the clients are coming there 555 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,480 because they've already went to their General practitioner and 556 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,440 chosen that they didn't have the tools needed there. 557 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,360 And they're going to come to your school veterinary teaching 558 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,400 hospital to do more. And So what I've realized a lot 559 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,560 of times, whether talking to clients or talking to 560 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,880 professors, blah, blah, blah, is the things that they're doing 561 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:50,080 and that are their baseline level of care would never happen 562 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,920 or even be a thought at my home clinic in the middle of nowhere. 563 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,360 And so one of my first questions I always ask if I have the 564 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:01,320 opportunity or if it feels appropriate is if I'm getting a 565 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,280 lecture on maybe it's dentistry and I say, well, what are the 566 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,560 baseline or the gold standard or how can we make this more 567 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,840 accessible to rural or low income people? 568 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,000 Because when I think about my clinic and it's the only vet 569 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,400 clinic within, you know, 3045 mile radius and you know, I had 570 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,560 an incident with a personal pet where it was, you have to drive 571 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,560 4 hours because it's Texas and the state's huge. 572 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,200 So you know, you have to drive 4 hours to get this biopsy done. 573 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,680 And it was like for the OK, well that's not going to happen. 574 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,160 It's just an interesting topic you bring. 575 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,120 Up A you bring up a great point. I think veterinarians also need 576 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,920 to be comfortable doing stuff like stop sending, you know, 577 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,360 like stuff to places that you just do the work, you know, and 578 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,840 it's OK if it's the first time you've done the work, you know, 579 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,840 or set yourself up for success by working on cadavers, you 580 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,040 know, start a cadaver program in your in your practice, you know, 581 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,800 and just and get and do stuff. Tell somebody, you know what, 582 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,320 it's not practical for you to drive 4 hours down the road. 583 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,800 If you're OK with it, I can do the biopsy for you. 584 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,320 You know, it's not something I routinely do, but I'm feel more 585 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,080 than comfortable taking a biopsy from them out or whatever it is. 586 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,080 You know, I think we can save owners a lot of money, you know, 587 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,280 by doing things. And it also is inundated the 588 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,640 specialty practices, which then as now you can't get into a 589 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,800 specialist for six or eight weeks because they're doing 590 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,720 stuff that GPS should be doing. So I think that, you know, 591 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,760 veterinarians need to, you know, get their confidence back. 592 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,480 And, and I think the schools are partly responsible for that. 593 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,960 Over the past 20 years, they wanted to push work to the 594 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,520 specialist, right? Because they've trained 595 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:41,840 residents. These residents now are 596 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,760 specialist, right? You should send that to the well 597 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,960 now that we've shot ourselves in the foot, because now we've just 598 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,720 made a bunch of veterinarians who are scared to do anything, 599 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,360 you know, you know, and nervous. And then they didn't, they 600 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,480 haven't done it for a year. And my God, how am I going to do 601 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,400 this? Cherry eye? 602 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,880 I don't know, you know, like that should not go to an 603 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400 ophthalmologist unless it's a bulldog, then I'll give you a 604 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,520 pass. But like even then you could do 605 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,120 it, you know, So there's so many things like that FH OS, like 606 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,520 there's so many things that I see going to specialists that 607 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,880 end up costing owners way more than what it needs. 608 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,920 You know, specialists need to be doing compound fracture repairs 609 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,040 and back surgeries and you know, back like serious stuff that 610 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,280 like we don't we didn't learn how to do, I think. 611 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,920 That's a great point because like you said, the schools do 612 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,840 kind of encourage us refer, refer, refer, not in a negative 613 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,240 way. The way that it's phrased to us. 614 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,240 I've never even thought about what you're saying because the 615 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,200 way it's phrased to us, the other side of the conversation, 616 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,120 in addition to driving business to specialists, is if you don't 617 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,200 feel comfortable doing it, there's no shame in sending it 618 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,360 to somebody who you know could give your patient better quality 619 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,800 of care. If you know, or if you feel like 620 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,320 you can't do what needs to be done, don't feel ashamed that 621 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,840 you can't do it. Don't be overconfident and screw 622 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,840 your patient over because you thought you could do something 623 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,880 that you couldn't. So again, it's just another side 624 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320 of the conversation, but I think that's a really good point. 625 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,320 Well, and I think if the, if the option is the pets going to get 626 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,240 euthanized, you know, or you're going to do it then you know, 627 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,520 like I think that's a conversation. 628 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,200 We've had those conversations with owners tons of times. 629 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,600 We had a, we had our own technician RBT that had her dog 630 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,680 needed a gallbladder surgery and then it wasn't imminent, you 631 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,240 know, but she really did not want to go pay $8000, used our 632 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,080 cadaver program. We practiced it three to four 633 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,600 times, Doctor Cloud and I, and then we did her gallbladder 634 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,240 surgery, you know, So like, I just don't think that I don't. 635 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,600 And that's not an example of euthanasia, but I've had plenty 636 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,840 of times where people have been like, I am gonna have to 637 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,760 euthanize it. And I'm like, OK, well, I'll 638 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,320 try, you know, like I'll try and save them. 639 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,920 I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 640 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,600 You know, I do think that you have to have a certain level of 641 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,320 skill, like you don't want to, you know, but most of the time 642 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,200 when you graduate, you're working with other people. 643 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,000 You know, usually they you have two people working on things 644 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,080 like if it's something that somebody has never done, usually 645 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,880 have an extra set of hands and eyes, things like that, that 646 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,120 optimize, you know, success. We have a surgeon locally that 647 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,080 we can just pick up the phone and either text or call and be 648 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,320 like, we were doing a we had a clonic torsion in dog. 649 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,920 I was like, I'm not referring this. 650 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,600 It's a clonic torsion. We just have to like do surgery 651 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,960 and like flip it around, right. I mean, we had never done one, 652 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,520 but I was like, this can't be that hard. 653 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,960 And she wasn't going to go to the specialist And I'm like, 654 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,760 well, all right, let's just open them up. 655 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,040 Let's flip it over, you know, untwist it and then let's, you 656 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,640 know, figure out what we're supposed to do to keep it from 657 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,520 doing it again. So, you know, I mean, like, just 658 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680 because we hadn't done it didn't mean that we weren't qualified 659 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400 to do it. So I think that's important for 660 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,840 for young veterinarians to understand definitely. 661 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,040 I think it's I remember I was a runner in high school and he, my 662 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,920 coach always told me that being comfortable is overrated. 663 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,960 And I am constantly uncomfortable in veteran and 664 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,720 will be for the rest of my career and I have to live with 665 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,120 that. And even getting people to talk 666 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,960 in front of A room freaks out most people. 667 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,640 I wish they would feel how we feel as veterinarians. 668 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,120 Well, veterinary students, veterinarians. 669 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,840 One day like the other day, we did physical exams for the first 670 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,960 time. You know how nerve wracking that 671 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,440 was with perfectly behaved ducks? 672 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,280 We just had a whole cause lab that threw everybody off because 673 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,920 we have been doing physical exams and practicing that and 674 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,640 taking history since the last. Like one of the first labs we 675 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,080 did was a physical exam and getting used to it. 676 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,160 But this past communications lab that we had, it was taking a 677 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,160 history while you're doing a physical exam. 678 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,160 So a very normal, you know, day-to-day thing. 679 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,640 And it just had everybody in a tizzy. 680 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,000 And they're like, I can't do both. 681 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,800 I can't do both. Why can't I do it separate? 682 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,960 And I was like, but we were like, Oh my God, like, yeah, 683 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,080 that's. Hilarious for. 684 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,080 Us, we were for 10 doctors. Yes, yes, we do that all the 685 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,640 time. It's so fun. 686 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,760 That's. Hilarious. 687 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,160 Oh, my gosh, I love it. Yes. 688 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,800 I think, you know, learning how to be decisive is extremely 689 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,120 important, you know, and so being decisive is a learned 690 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,239 skill. And I think you end up become, 691 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,679 you become comfortable being decisive, not because you know 692 00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,880 you're going to be right every time, but because, you know, you 693 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,760 can handle if you're wrong, right, you're going to be OK, 694 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,199 you know, even if you are wrong. And so I think being indecisive 695 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,400 is a killer in our profession for sure. 696 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,239 Yeah. And as we round out, First off, 697 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,679 we already talked about your Instagram. 698 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,800 Tell us a little bit about your TV show that you're producing. 699 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,560 I think right. Yes. 700 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:47,280 So Doctor Crocker and myself are doing a show. 701 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,960 We can't say a lot about it because Harrison will kill me. 702 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,360 And so it is a show where we are just kind of showcasing 703 00:34:55,639 --> 00:35:00,320 different professions within our industry and what those jobs 704 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,640 look like at the same time trying to do said jobs. 705 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,560 And so it is, you know, just trying to bring some humor again 706 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,640 and some joy and some comedic relief as well as some, you 707 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,080 know, good information for not only veterinary professionals, 708 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,640 but for pet owners kind of around the world. 709 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,040 And so we're excited about it. We think it's a unique idea. 710 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,040 And hopefully over the next year we'll get everything filmed and 711 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,320 then we can launch it on the platform and then update you 712 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,720 guys and let you know maybe you could be part of the watch 713 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,480 party. I will be, I actually have like 714 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,640 this far off distant dream that Michaela and I would have a show 715 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,000 and we would travel the world and we would try to work with 716 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,640 every animal and do every crazy thing possible and like you 717 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,960 said, being comfortable with the uncomfortable. 718 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,880 So I'm very excited to see you. Are you going to be a little bit 719 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,440 out of your wheelhouse? Yeah, for sure, definitely. 720 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,880 Yeah. Already in the first episode 721 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,000 there were several instances where I think we said that 722 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,120 multiple times. So yes, exactly. 723 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,120 Oh my gosh, I'm. Very excited for you. 724 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:12,540 I'm also very excited so. Thank you very much. 725 00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:13,700 I appreciate that. Yeah, well. 726 00:36:14,420 --> 00:36:16,980 I guess you can't say the name yet, but when you I. 727 00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:20,640 Can't. I'm not allowed to, I know. 728 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,080 Well, you had posted, I don't think Gretel had seen it yet. 729 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,040 And you posted something about, you know, I can't remember what 730 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,600 it was, but whatever The 1st post was when you kind of 731 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,040 announced that you're working on something, I texted Gretel and I 732 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,520 was like, did you see this? And she was like, no. 733 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,280 And I was like, I don't know what she's talking about. 734 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,360 What is she doing? What is this show about? 735 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,560 So I was like, we're going to have to, we'd already scheduled 736 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,160 you to come on. So we were like, obviously we're 737 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,040 going to talk about it later, you know? 738 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,680 Absolutely. When once, so once it's like, 739 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,560 you know, further along, we'll come back and maybe I can get 740 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,000 Crocker to come on here with me and we'll we'll talk about it. 741 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,760 So yes. We would love to have her. 742 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,440 That would be amazing. It would be fun if we had an 743 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,160 episode on dealing with the uncomfortable. 744 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:05,360 And yes. The Roger. 745 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,320 Free play. Yeah, exactly. 746 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,120 That might be traumatic, but we can do it well. 747 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,040 One thing that we've started doing, so shout out to Doctor 748 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,080 Wade for choosing our question is we're ending off every 749 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,200 episode with kind of like a little positivity boost. 750 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,080 You know, we talk about some hard or interesting topics on 751 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,840 the podcast. So we ended off by saying, 752 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,840 what's bringing you joy today? Wow. 753 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,520 What's bringing me joy today? Well, gosh, I mean, being on 754 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,640 this podcast, I love visiting with you guys. 755 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,400 You guys are the future of the industry and you're so 756 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,800 enthusiastic and fun and optimistic and but yet 757 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,160 thoughtful about the challenges in front of you. 758 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:45,640 And so it definitely that has definitely added joy to my day 759 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,640 for sure. Thank you. 760 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,240 So much. It's an honor to always talk to 761 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,520 you. Actually, all my classmates were 762 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,560 like, you're a doctor, you're talking Doctor King. 763 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,080 What? I was like, yes, she's amazing. 764 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:03,120 We've actually met in person. I know I had posted like a 765 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,440 little like, oh, upcoming guests on the podcast and one of my 766 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,720 classmates reached out to me and was like, I didn't know you had 767 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:09,960 a podcast. And I was like, I've been 768 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,880 posting about it since like last. 769 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,400 March. Oh. 770 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,400 My God, it exists. It's exist. 771 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,800 That's right, that's right. So I. 772 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,760 Know people are excited about this episode and thank you again 773 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,080 for coming on. I know you definitely it's such 774 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,120 like, you know little spark of joy whenever we watch your 775 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,800 videos and we're like yes, we're going to do that someday and we 776 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,440 love what she talks about and she's such an inspiration. 777 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,080 So I know that so many more people are inspired by you than 778 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,760 you even think about. So thank you, yes. 779 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,960 Well, you're welcome. Absolutely. 780 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,120 Thanks for for that. That means a. 781 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,760 Lot but all right, thank you everybody for listening. 782 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,680 Thank you Doctor King for coming on go check her out at Doctor 783 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,920 Emily King on all of the platforms, Facebook, Instagram. 784 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,360 I think you're on everything. So go check her out. 785 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,520 Make sure to watch your show when it comes out. 786 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,280 I'm excited. So thank you again and we'll see 787 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,000 you next time.