1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,480 Welcome back pet parent. Today we are talking more about 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,200 gut health and obviously right here on the Pet Parenting Reset, 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,360 this is what we do. We talk about gut health all the 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:14,760 time because it is so important for so many reasons and we're 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,880 talking very specifically about FMT today. 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,360 If you're not familiar with that, don't worry, hang in 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,800 there. We're going to we're going to 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,600 break it all down. I have been utilizing FMT with 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,360 my dog and with my clients dogs for quite a while now. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,800 I love it. I don't, I feel like I use it a 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,720 little bit differently than a lot of other people do, but we 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,480 can get into all of that. We can talk about all of that. 13 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:42,920 I actually before I introduce my guest who is very patiently 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,640 waiting and I appreciate that. If we if you remember not too 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,800 long ago, I had Billy Hookman back on the podcast and we were 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:55,040 talking about utilizing FMT in combination with the new Green 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,600 Juju probiotics. So keep that in the back of your 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,280 mind as we talk through today's episode. 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,280 But again, thank you so much for waiting, Jason. 20 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,160 I have Jason Klopp with Legacy Biome joining us today. 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,360 Thank you so much for being here. 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,120 Jason, how are you doing? Happy to join in and I'm excited 23 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,280 to hear more as well from you as far as how you're using it. 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,680 And who knows, maybe I'll be the devil's advocate and critique. 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,280 Yeah, I know. I feel like you know everybody 26 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,240 when you practice, when you are, you know, working one-on-one 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,640 with pets, you just find different things work 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,960 differently for different animals, for different 29 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,400 situations, for different. And so I think everybody kind of 30 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,280 tweaks things just a little bit and we find ways that we think 31 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,600 work for us. But I, I am here to learn from 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,720 you because you have been studying, working in FMT for 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,880 quite wait a while now. And so I want to hear from you. 34 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,080 We're going to talk more about legacy specifically later on, 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,040 but can you just start out by explaining what FMT is, what 36 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,080 we're talking about here? Yeah. 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,320 And I think to that earlier point, like that's the advantage 38 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,160 of working with someone like yourself who has the experience, 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,560 who can be more objective, right? 40 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,360 Like we need to create rough guidance, rough protocols, but 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,720 ultimately each pet, just like each pet parent is very 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,280 individual, right? How they got to be sick and 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,160 unwell to begin with is very different. 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,160 And so their path to recovery is going to be very different. 45 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,280 Now there's some foundational pieces that you just have to get 46 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,880 right for all pets, like you got to get their diet right. 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,480 But outside of that, I mean, there's just so much individual 48 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,560 role that that is played in recovering a dog from whatever 49 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,240 issues they're dealing with. And so that having an individual 50 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,040 guidance is, is really key and helpful. 51 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,280 So I'm a huge advocate of working with pet health coaches 52 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,760 and functional or integrative, however you want to term them 53 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,200 veterinarians. And so quickly though to 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,960 introduce how I got to this pet world space. 55 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Actually, my backgrounds as a naturopathic Dr. And so I first 56 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:03,080 began treating humans with FMT back starting in 2018 and spent 57 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,440 many years treating hundreds of patients with a whole variety of 58 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,800 different conditions. And so a lot of what I refer to 59 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,880 is based on my experience in treating humans because that's 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,920 where the bulk of the research is when it comes to the gut 61 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,120 microbiome. There is starting to be more 62 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,520 research developing in dogs and cats when it comes to the 63 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,760 microbiome testing, FMT treatment. 64 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,480 And we're actually going to be in, in the next short while 65 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,840 launching our own small study with the FMTS and intervention. 66 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,040 So what is FMT? So it stands for fecal 67 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,920 microbiota transplant. So it really sounds like it is. 68 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,600 Oftentimes though, people hear the word transplant and they 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,200 start to think, wait a minute, there's going to be like a 70 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,120 surgery just like a liver transplant or a kidney 71 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,600 transplant. There is no surgery. 72 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,200 The predominant method of delivery is actually via 73 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,160 capsules. The product looks very similar 74 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,480 to a probiotic. So there's no, you know, dealing 75 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,400 with poop or smells or odors or any other issues like that. 76 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,480 It's a very clean product and we're concentrating for the 77 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,680 microbiome in the actual product itself. 78 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,960 The the product comes as a double encapsulated, so it's 79 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,960 enteric coded, which means that it can get through the stomach 80 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,079 acid and being mostly intact by the time it hits the small 81 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,279 intestine where it will slowly begin to open. 82 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,040 And the premise of FMT or fecal microbiotic transplant is that 83 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:27,560 we're trying to identify very healthy, carefully screened 84 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,520 donor dogs and cats who have been raised naturally over many 85 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,760 generations to ensure that they had the healthiest microbiome 86 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,000 possible because the microbiome is critical for, well, basically 87 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,720 everything. I mean, the gut microbiome is 88 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320 tied to all organ systems. Most people are aware of the gut 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,440 brain connection, but the reality is, is we have a gut, 90 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,880 every other organ system connection, gut, brain, gut, 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,640 heart, gut, lung, gut, skin, gut, you name it, they're all 92 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,760 connected. And so it is this really 93 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,880 foundational piece where if it's off, if the gut microbiome is 94 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,960 imbalanced, it will have a negative feedback loop to 95 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,760 whatever organ system it's interacting with, whether it's 96 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,680 the immune system or the brain. And so by improving gut function 97 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,920 and gut health overall via in this context of fecal 98 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,680 transplant, you can start to see really important and 99 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,680 transformative changes in whatever organ system is 100 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,240 impacted. Yeah, it really does impact 101 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,880 everything in the body. And I think that's why we talk 102 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,200 about gut health so much. Not just, I mean any and 103 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,920 everything going on in the body because most of the immune 104 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,560 system is in the gut, right? So we're, we're impacting every, 105 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,160 just like you said, we're impacting everything. 106 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,720 But also I, I like to use it behaviorally as well. 107 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,080 You talked about the gut brain access and I, I think we 108 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,160 overlook that even more than all of the other things because the 109 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,760 other things make sense. I think to people, there's still 110 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,000 a lot of people who especially with their dog, Well, I don't 111 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,560 know. I think with people too, like we 112 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,720 just really overlook the impact of our gut health on our mental 113 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,360 health, on our emotional health. Definitely a huge, huge has a 114 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,280 huge impact. And you know, we're really 115 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:20,080 quick, especially with dogs to think, oh, my dog needs to be 116 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,680 trained. And I'm a big advocate for 117 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,760 positive reinforcement training. But I, this is kind of how I got 118 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,880 into this space to begin with. I was a positive reinforcement 119 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,560 dog trainer and I started switching my clients to fresh 120 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,360 food diets and put myself out of a job. 121 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,960 And I'm like, I see, I see what's happening here, right? 122 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Like I'm thrilled to be putting myself out of a job because that 123 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,920 means that these pets are feeling better. 124 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,840 So now they're acting better, they're behaving better. 125 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,800 They're actually able to pay attention and focus and listen 126 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,000 to what you're saying to them and, and try to do the things 127 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,640 you're asking of them because they want to do. 128 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,600 Like, you know, our dogs are really different in that way in 129 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,080 that we have put them in an environment that is not at all 130 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,440 natural to them. We have asked them to behave in 131 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,800 a totally different manner than what is natural to them and 132 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,240 given them like no structure and guidelines to do so. 133 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,720 And yet they still want to do it. 134 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,560 They still want, right? It's pretty shocking, isn't it? 135 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,440 And I mean, that's the reality, right? 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,640 I mean, if anybody has, you know, been around has a toddler, 137 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,000 like if they can't communicate, but they're feeling anxious or 138 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,680 they're feeling some sort of pain, they're going to act out 139 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,680 in behaviors. And so it's not very on, you 140 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,440 know, dogs can't talk, unfortunately, although maybe 141 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,800 fortunately, I don't know, I wondered, you know, like what's 142 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,080 going on in their noggin. I'd love to know what's going on 143 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,720 in there. But maybe one day with AI and 144 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,880 all these, you know, brain implants and things, we'll be 145 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,160 able to, you know, get to understand what dogs are 146 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,840 actually thinking. The reality is it's probably not 147 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,080 a lot, but but, but yeah, I mean, that's their way of 148 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,800 communicating, right? So if they're in pain and you 149 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,720 can't see it expressed as a symptom, they're going to react 150 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,040 as a behavior, right? So it's going to come out some 151 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,880 way. That's just the body's natural 152 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,480 way of communicating what's going on in the absence of being 153 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,360 able to actually verbalize something. 154 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,880 And so it's really important to look for these cues that aren't 155 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,440 necessarily just physical symptoms. 156 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,040 In some of these contexts, it can be behaviors. 157 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,600 So I'm, I'm really curious, you know, being a naturopathic Dr. 158 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,320 that's something I think most people are not super familiar 159 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,600 with. It's not something most people 160 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,720 either have access to or know realize that they have access to 161 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,480 because you do practice very differently from a traditional 162 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,559 western allopathic medicine doctor. 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,240 One of the things, and this this comes up a lot in for me when 164 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,840 I'm talking to clients is trying to get them over that really 165 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,760 huge hurdle of thinking in allopathic medicine and mindset. 166 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,480 So FMT I think really falls into that like naturopathic 167 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,680 functional holistic medicine mindset where we are not just 168 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:09,120 just as an example, I was talking to a potential client 169 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,360 the other day and I was explaining to her that because 170 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,720 she was talking about her cat having an excessive amount of a 171 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,640 certain bacteria in, in her gut microbiome. 172 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:23,280 And then I was explaining to her that that's really great 173 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,800 information. That's really great data, but 174 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,080 because she was talking about, you know, metronidazole being 175 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,520 really great at killing off this particular bacteria. 176 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,600 And I'm like, that's wonderful. But I find that when we stop 177 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,160 focusing on trying to kill or eradicate something and we start 178 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:48,880 focusing on how to create a more like a harmonial balance. 179 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,880 And we're not trying to say I don't want this bacteria. 180 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,600 We do want this bacteria. We just want to adjust the 181 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,560 levels like that's a really huge shift in thinking and I think 182 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:01,880 that's where like FMT really comes into play. 183 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,160 Maybe you can explain that a little bit better than I can 184 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,400 though. Yeah, I mean, I'm totally with 185 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,360 you. I mean, again, a lot of context 186 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,760 for what I'm sharing comes from my experience in treating 187 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,720 humans. But it is really a philosophy 188 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,800 shift that is required, right? Like thinking the, the, the sort 189 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,320 of conventional way of thinking is, is that like you can kill 190 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,160 your way to health. But if anything is displayed in 191 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,480 the amount of disease that we're seeing in the spike in diseases, 192 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,240 chronic diseases, both in humans and in our pets, that path is 193 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,320 not working. You know, we can't kill our way 194 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,240 to better health. It's just doesn't work. 195 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,000 And the reality is, is you know, in the context of what your 196 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,200 friends shared, like having an elevated bacteria, like if you 197 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,720 were to just to knock that down, it's going to cause something 198 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,120 else to go up. And it's going to just be this 199 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,280 constant game where the net net you're going to end up with an 200 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,320 even worse microbiome. And having pathogenic or 201 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,400 overgrown species of bacteria or fungi, etcetera, is just an 202 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,840 indicator that the microbiome is out of balance. 203 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,520 Like the whole point of the human body and the pet body is 204 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,680 to maintain balance. That's what it's trying to do 205 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:11,920 all the time, whether it's with your blood pressure, your blood 206 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,360 pH, everything is about maintaining balance and 207 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,720 homeostasis. And so the more that you try to 208 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,480 manipulate individual variables, you're going to cause some other 209 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,000 system to be impacted and negatively affected. 210 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:30,280 And so the goal needs to be to try to give the microbiome and 211 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,400 the body more generally what it needs to do, what it's designed 212 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,160 to do and has been doing for, you know, thousands or millions 213 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,960 of years, depending on your worldview. 214 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,200 And so it, it, it can work. The reality is, is there are 215 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,560 some cases where these interventions are needed. 216 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:49,160 So I'm not like anti using these types of interventions. 217 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,800 They can be a short term net benefit. 218 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,840 But then the question is, OK, what can we do once we've done 219 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:59,920 this intervention to get back to rebuilding a healthy balanced 220 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,720 system. And in the context of FM TI mean 221 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,760 that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to give a 222 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,160 representation of what is the healthiest possible microbiome 223 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,480 in a dog or cat that's been living very healthy for many 224 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,680 generations, doesn't have all these typical chronic diseases 225 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:20,680 and giving that as a transplant, something that can go in and 226 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,200 educate, if you will, the microbiome. 227 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,680 OK, this is what healthy looks like and start to create an 228 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,720 engraft within the pets microbiome and creating that 229 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,760 balance so that it can monitor and prune as if you will itself. 230 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:36,400 Right. Like forests. 231 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,400 We don't we don't go into forests and like, oh, let's like 232 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,440 cut out all these trees like the forest is managing itself unless 233 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,320 there's been, you know, some problematic invasive species or 234 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,040 some crazy thing like that. But generally speaking, right, 235 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,360 like nature knows how to maintain itself and that's what 236 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,200 we're trying to do within the gut microbiome. 237 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,680 It will manage itself. The trouble is this if you 238 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:01,920 introduce some these conventional, you know anti 239 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,960 therapies, whether it's antibiotics or other things, it 240 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,920 will then create an imbalance and potentially dis ease. 241 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,560 Yeah. So with FMT and from, I just 242 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,280 kind of want to circle back to what you just said. 243 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:24,760 You are introducing what the microbiome should look like to 244 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,240 try to educate. And then that's, I think that's 245 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:33,440 a may be easy for us, easier for us to understand, but I'm trying 246 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,080 to figure out how, how we are educating our body system. 247 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,360 We're we're just providing it like this example of like if I'm 248 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,280 going to hand this to you, I'm going to, I'm going to give this 249 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,760 to you to utilize, to absorb, to do all the things to adjust the, 250 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,800 the bacteria that are currently in in your gut so you can see 251 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,960 how this feels. Yeah, in in part, I think that's 252 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,920 the a part of the way to think about it. 253 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,720 You know, truthfully, we don't know exactly how it works. 254 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,000 Even though it's like, you know, hundreds and thousands of 255 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,280 studies in this, you know, general space, it's still not 256 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,880 totally clear. The the likely path is, is that 257 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,440 yes, we are putting in this whole microbiome product that 258 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,640 includes bacteria, that includes fungus and viruses and parasites 259 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,880 and a whole bunch of things that in and like all combined make up 260 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,080 the microbiome. And the whole concept of the 261 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,520 whole goal is to get these new microbes to actually engraft and 262 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,240 become a part of your pet's new microbiome. 263 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,360 And in studies again in humans, but the donors microbiome and 264 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,880 then the recipient's microbiome in this context, the pet, 265 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,920 they're very different after FMT. 266 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,000 So the FMT that the new microbiome from the pet won't 267 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,800 look like exactly like the donors and it won't look exactly 268 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,040 like what they had before. So they'll basically take on 269 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,120 what they need or what was imbalanced and there'll be a new 270 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,400 microbiome. And a lot of it will also depend 271 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,120 on, you know, their environment, their lifestyle, their diet, 272 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,520 right? So those factors will have an 273 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,960 impact on what types of bugs and microbes actually in graft and 274 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,640 become a part of the microbiome. And the advantage of dosing over 275 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,280 a somewhat longer period of time, depending on the case, is 276 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,120 that it gives you the opportunity to keep giving in 277 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,640 some sense that reminder like here's what a healthy microbiome 278 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,520 looks like. So it can continue to try to 279 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,960 emulate that. And then over time it's formed, 280 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,520 it's there. And as long as the diet and 281 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,040 lifestyle and all the other things are good, that microbiome 282 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,080 can continue to be healthy. Now, as you age naturally, the 283 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,400 microbiome does decline, unfortunately. 284 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,520 And so there is the potential advantage at at some Gen. you 285 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,160 know, points to actually do some form of a booster along the way. 286 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,360 But broadly speaking, you know that microbiome in graphs, it 287 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,120 becomes a part of their new gut. And as long as it's being 288 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,080 supported, it's there to stay. That that is very important. 289 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,320 I'm going to talk about that a little bit later about 290 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,120 supporting it. What are when we think about 291 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:17,000 candidates for FMT therapies and there are so today we're we're 292 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,560 specifically talking about, you know, the capsules that that 293 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,760 legacy Biome has available. But I know there's also, you 294 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,520 know, there are some veterinarians out there that 295 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,160 will do. Yes, thank you for I was trying 296 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,720 to think of a good way to like, do I want to say this out loud? 297 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,960 Yes. So they will do that in office 298 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,680 and that I understand can be really, really effective. 299 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,640 So I mean there are that that's not available to everybody 300 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,200 though, right. Like that's just not something 301 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:44,960 we agree better. Right. 302 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,000 And sell those to veterinarians who want to do the procedure in 303 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,760 office. Often times they're doing some 304 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,120 sort of procedure beforehand, in many cases rectal ozone. 305 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,880 So they'll do that first and then they'll follow it up with 306 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,040 the rectal enema. And so, yeah, there there's an 307 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,560 opportunity to do that. It's interesting though, because 308 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,160 many years ago, prior to where we're at now when it comes to 309 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,400 FMT manufacturing, there were no FMT capsules. 310 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,640 It just wasn't a thing yet. That sort of started changing, 311 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,040 at least in humans, at around 2019. 312 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,040 And now more and more studies are utilizing FMT capsules, and 313 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,480 they're comparing them from an efficacy standpoint. 314 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,800 The real advantage is especially for dogs, right? 315 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,840 Like trying to get a dog to listen to you to hold it, like, 316 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,280 hold it in Fluffy, like, yeah, good luck. 317 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,040 Right. That's and so that's obviously a 318 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:36,800 concern. Of course, you know, you could 319 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,240 put the dog in the crate and hopefully they don't get urgency 320 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,480 or something and and hopefully they'll hold it in for a few 321 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,120 hours. But that can be a real 322 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,800 challenge. But in humans, when they've 323 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,800 studied them for C diff, which is a pretty serious GI infection 324 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,720 that results in diarrhea, and dogs get the same thing, what 325 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,400 happens is, is that they compared capsules to 326 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,000 colonoscopies to enemas. And both capsules and 327 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,400 colonoscopies had about a 90% cure rate for C diff. 328 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,240 Enemas, on the other hand, had about a 60% cure rate for C 329 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,160 diff. And so there's, it's showing 330 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,160 that it's important to try to inoculate a bigger portion of 331 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,680 the GI tract, which the colonoscopy does. 332 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,680 You know, it goes right up to the end of the colon where where 333 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,640 the, you know, small intestine transitions to the large and 334 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,680 then capsules will inoculate the whole thing. 335 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,840 So I do think there's definitely use cases for the enemas. 336 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,760 I know some vets really prefer those. 337 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,280 But generally speaking, it is something that, you know, there 338 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,000 are some pretty savvy pet parents out there who will 339 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,880 probably do almost any procedure. 340 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,600 But most cases, it's going to be better done, you know, in a 341 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,880 veterinarian office in a more controlled environment. 342 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,760 Yeah, Yeah. Well, and that's good to know 343 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,440 about the capsules as well that you know, they're they're going 344 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,600 to reach more places and and do all things. 345 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,680 And I think the advantage as well of the capsules is that you 346 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,560 can treat over a longer period of time. 347 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,880 So instead of doing a single enema procedure and then kind of 348 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,960 hoping for the best or having to keep going in to bring your dog 349 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,320 in for say a weekly enema or something that can get costly. 350 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:12,920 It's time consumed. You know, there's all these 351 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,800 variables. It can be just a whole lot 352 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,160 easier to just do the procedure via oral capsules, comfort of 353 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,840 your own home, feed it with a treat or anything else, and very 354 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,920 easy. So not a stressful procedure as 355 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,560 well. You know, some dogs or cats, 356 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,600 like they'd go through a lot of stress having to get that done. 357 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,760 Yeah. For sure what? 358 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:38,240 So what are some of the symptoms that pets may be experiencing 359 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:40,960 that in your mind you're like, OK, these are really great 360 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,360 candidates for FMT. Yeah, but the most obvious ones 361 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,840 are, of course, diarrhea. You know, that was the first use 362 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,560 case for FMT in humans dating back like 4000 years ago. 363 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,200 So diarrhea, C diff, that's the most obvious one. 364 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,560 But then even beyond that, you know, any sort of skin issues, 365 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,000 whether it's itching skin or hair loss, but those are great 366 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,880 ones. Dogs with like repetitive ear 367 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,600 infections, it's a great. Use case of course like 368 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,560 inflammatory bowel disease, you know, which sort of like IBSIBD, 369 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,120 those types of cases would respond really well to it. 370 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,640 I think allergies is another great use case where FMT can 371 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,160 work really well because allergies is typically like a 372 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,120 leaky gut type response. I know more and more now in dogs 373 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,160 we're seeing the diagnosis of like SIBO or small intestinal 374 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,720 bacterial overgrowth. I think that's another great use 375 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,360 case. And then as you pointed out, 376 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,920 some of the like, you know, mental, emotional, behavioral 377 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,320 anxiety, IED type symptoms, I think rebuilding the microbiome 378 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,600 can play a really positive strong role. 379 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,320 But broadly speaking, again, in humans, and a lot of this 380 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,480 translates, of course, to animals, because animals get all 381 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,480 the similar diagnosis, right? And in many cases you're on the 382 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,080 same drugs. And so, you know, it's, it's 383 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,160 anything that's GI related, right? 384 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,440 Like any symptom that is GI related is something that FMT is 385 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,600 typically being studied or used in. 386 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,720 And then a lot of neurological stuff. 387 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,040 So whether it's, you know, Parkinson's or dementia or 388 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,240 Alzheimer's or Ms. or octaves, like all of these neurological 389 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,440 conditions and then as well autoimmune, there's a huge tie 390 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,920 between autoimmunity and gut function. 391 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,880 And so, yeah, there's a lot of different use cases, but the 392 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,000 core ones in pets, I would say, is just any dog with diarrhea. 393 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,280 Dogs don't typically deal with as much Constipation as, say, 394 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,720 humans do. But if there were a case of 395 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Constipation, that would definitely be indicated. 396 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,240 And then there's just this categories, well, of people who 397 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,320 want to just generally support their dog before they get sick. 398 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,640 So I think that's a huge opportunity, just being more 399 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,480 proactive, right? Don't wait until they develop a 400 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,920 disease. Let's do this more proactively. 401 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,320 And, and then it can also be combined in more of these 402 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,000 chronic diseases where dogs are dealing with like liver diseases 403 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,760 and kidney diseases and cancers and other things like that. 404 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,680 This can be really supportive as well because the microbiome 405 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,520 plays a really important role in that disease, but also in 406 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,120 supporting the treatment, treatments that someone might be 407 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:09,760 doing to try to either eliminate the the problem or just support 408 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,520 them as long as they can through the disease life course. 409 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,200 Yeah, there's so many, so many use cases are there? 410 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Can you think of anything off the top of your head where you'd 411 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,080 be like, no, I definitely wouldn't even want to consider 412 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,920 FMT? Yeah, I mean, generally 413 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,400 speaking, it's very safe. It's generally very well 414 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,120 tolerated. You know, in humans, for 415 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,080 example, they don't take a drink pregnancy. 416 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,720 But we've had many parents give it to their dog in the hope that 417 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,080 they'll support the dog's microbiome and the puppy's 418 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,680 microbiome will be better. I mean, naturally it'd be better 419 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,080 to do it before they conceive, but there's really no reason you 420 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,000 couldn't do it during. I would say if they, you know, 421 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,640 we're really fragile, right? Like the dog is very ill and, 422 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,480 you know, just introducing something at that point doesn't 423 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,400 make a lot of sense if they're kind of slowly on their way out. 424 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,240 But yeah. Or, or if they had like a, you 425 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,640 know, really serious infection or something else, like if the 426 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,920 dog is really sick, there's no point trying to introduce this. 427 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,440 But outside of that, there's really no harm in trying it for 428 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,440 most cases and just seeing, not all cases are of course, going 429 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,280 to see a response. But but generally speaking, 430 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,200 there's not like an obvious, so this is an obvious red flag. 431 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,440 You know, if their immune system is really, you know, degraded 432 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,800 and they didn't have a lot of immune activity, that might be a 433 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,120 reason to consider it. But but many dogs aren't being 434 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,280 tested for that, right? So it would be hard to say, oh, 435 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,160 my dog has like a really impaired immune system. 436 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,120 And so I'm going to, you know, avoid or I'm going to do a 437 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,240 certain treatment. So that would would be something 438 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,000 to potentially consider. But yeah. 439 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,680 Yeah. So going back to this idea that, 440 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,400 you know, X is wrong, so we take Y pill. 441 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,000 I think that in my experience, a lot of people have treated 442 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,800 multiple things in this regard, whether it's probiotics or I've 443 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,360 definitely seen people do it with FMT capsules and they're 444 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:03,960 like, I'm not going to change anything, but I'm going to give 445 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,960 this FMT to my dog. And then after, you know, 446 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,440 they'll see a little bit of, you know, good result pretty 447 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,600 immediately, you know, and then they're like, oh, but then my 448 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,120 dog went right back. So it didn't work. 449 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,440 Well, I think this is probably a good point to go back to what 450 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,280 you were talking about earlier with continuing support. 451 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,720 So how do you how do you like to educate pet parents in that 452 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,120 regard? These microbes are only as good 453 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:33,880 as the diet that they're getting, right? 454 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,360 So different groups of bacteria, their goal, their job is to 455 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,440 breakdown fibers because humans, we don't have the ability to 456 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,040 breakdown fibers and get all the benefits from them. 457 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,880 So that's what the microbes do. They breakdown fibers, but not 458 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,360 all fibers feed all bacteria. So you need a variety of 459 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,760 different fibers to fuel and feed these different bacteria. 460 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,000 And then the great thing is these bacteria then start to 461 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,520 release stuff, as an example, short chain fatty acids. 462 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,960 So short chain fatty acids then are the fuel source themselves 463 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,760 for the lining the cells that line the gastrointestinal tract. 464 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,720 So butyrate as an example. So butyrate would actually feed 465 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,840 the cells that line the digestive tract and then help 466 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,720 that gut lining, which you know, we think of leaky gut, begin to 467 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,760 recover and heal. So they release 468 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,960 anti-inflammatory types of compounds, allow for healing 469 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,840 within the gut, and if the gut can heal, the leaky gut can 470 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,040 heal. You're not having an 471 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,120 inflammation leaking everywhere, which is causing and or 472 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:39,920 exacerbating most of these diseases to begin with. 473 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,280 And so the diet is really a critical piece, right? 474 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,920 Like we really need to make sure that the dog is eating a clean, 475 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,920 healthy diet and it's as diverse as possible. 476 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040 You had mentioned that the green juju I, I love what those guys 477 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,360 are doing over there. Gus, he's got also has some 478 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,680 really cool formulas where they're getting a lot of 479 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,680 diversity. And so it's still fine to be 480 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,720 feeding. You know, if your opinion is 481 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,520 like, I'm, I'm really believing my dog needs to eat a more 482 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,040 carnivorous diet. Well, it's not a big deal. 483 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,360 Just to broaden that a little bit, right, Whether it's with 484 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:13,120 tripe or some of these toppers which give more diversity, you 485 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,600 know they'll get 1015% of their diet from more plant based 486 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,640 sources that can give the fibers that those new microbes need to 487 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,920 grow and thrive and survive. So if you do FMT and you 488 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,520 introduce all these healthy new microbes and they begin to 489 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,360 engraft, but then you don't change the dye and it doesn't 490 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,760 become more diverse and you're still on a poor quality kibble 491 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,240 diet, Well, most likely they're not getting the fibers that they 492 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,600 need to grow and thrive and they'll just slowly die away and 493 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,920 a lot of the benefits that you've seen initially will 494 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,920 diminish. And so that's really where, you 495 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,920 know, we try to advocate as much as possible to try to 496 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,240 incorporate more raw feeding and as much as your sort of 497 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,680 philosophies vary, but incorporating at least some 498 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,920 variety of fruits and veg because that does give more 499 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,440 diversity of the fibers and then that allows more of these 500 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,120 microbes to engraft, grow, thrive, etcetera. 501 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,800 Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like that 502 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,800 is as important. If not, I don't want to say more 503 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,440 important. I mean, what if people have 504 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,920 gotten to the point where they know even know what FMT is like? 505 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,760 You're doing pretty good. Right. 506 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,640 I feel like I think a lot of the, you know, a lot of the 507 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,720 people that work with, you know, we'd have to do some sort of 508 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,280 pull or something. But a lot of people that that, 509 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040 you know, even come to this, as you pointed out, have already 510 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,640 figured that part out right there. 511 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,280 They're like, OK, the diet is kind of a critical piece. 512 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,160 And so I would say the majority are focusing on, you know, 513 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,320 better diet than the average come this far and who are not 514 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,840 listening to this podcast. But but even if they are right, 515 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,280 and a small change can be meaningful, right? 516 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,960 Like if if there are if it's a cost consideration or some other 517 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,920 thing that's preventing you the time or some other thing, even 518 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,040 making small steps in that direction will have larger and 519 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,000 long term benefits. So, yeah, you know, if if 520 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,960 switching to 100% raw diet today is too much or, you know, 521 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,840 there's there's only individual cases, right? 522 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,920 Like some dogs to don't eat the food and there's all these 523 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,080 variables, but even doing a little bit and, and pushing a 524 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520 little bit outside of what they're doing can have a 525 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,800 positive benefit. And it might just mean on some 526 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,440 of these unique cases, they may need to do more supplements and 527 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,000 maybe they need to repeat FMT little more frequently than 528 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,320 someone who was able to really manage the diet. 529 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,960 So there's a lot of factors that. 530 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,240 Yeah. So I'd like to talk, I mean 531 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,080 you've, you've mentioned a few things that are specific to 532 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,000 legacy Biome, but I'd like to talk a little bit more about 533 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,760 what really makes legacy different from other FMT that 534 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,680 that may be out on the market for pets specifically. 535 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,200 I know one of the things that you you do, you're very, very 536 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,040 particular about the donor animals. 537 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,120 So can you talk to me a little bit more about what you do there 538 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,440 with that protocol? Is what you're looking for what 539 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,760 you're making sure isn't there all the things? 540 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,720 Sure. Yeah. 541 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,280 I mean, to me it's the combination of the donors and 542 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,440 the donor network and the manufacturing that create a 543 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,880 product that is both safe and efficacious. 544 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,600 Like we don't want a product that's just safe but not 545 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,920 efficacious or efficacious but not safe. 546 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,160 It has to be both. And so from a manufacturing 547 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,880 standpoint, we've taken what we've done in human drug 548 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,160 manufacturing and translated a lot of it over to what we do 549 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,040 with the animal side of things. And so we are very focused on 550 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,520 manufacturing that, you know, really makes a product have a 551 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,120 lot of the microbes still surviving, but also clean and 552 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,000 all the other things that go into manufacturing the products. 553 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,640 So we know from a safety standpoint, manufacturing side 554 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,000 is a checkbox. But from a donor standpoint, 555 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,000 that also plays a role in the safety because we need to make 556 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,720 sure we're testing the donors on a frequent basis to ensure 557 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,840 there's nothing pathogenic there that if transferred to a dog 558 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,880 that's more fragile, has a weaker immune system, could make 559 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,840 them sick and cause a problem. So donor screening is a big 560 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,240 thing. But the gut microbiome as a 561 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,040 whole, it comes from, you know, generationally, like we're 562 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,720 getting this microbiome through the generation. 563 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,840 It's not just something where you're like, Oh yeah, I got this 564 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,680 healthy puppy off of Kijiji are some backyard breeder, but I 565 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,400 know nothing about where they come from. 566 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,440 Yeah, the puppy may be healthy today, but they're probably not 567 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,120 dealing with the healthy gut microbiome. 568 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,800 And so the gut microbiome does come generationally. 569 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,720 And so that's something that I think is important, but also how 570 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,120 the dog was was reared from a puppy and then also the 571 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,800 generations before them. So that looks like eating a raw 572 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,400 diet. In our case, the dogs that we 573 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800 use never had an antibiotic and antibiotics, I mean, they're 574 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,080 like nuclear bombs to the gut microbiome. 575 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,600 And it can take years to rebuild from an antibiotic, even though 576 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,240 they can be life saving. I know in some cases they're 577 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,400 truly amazing, but in a lot of cases they're overused, You 578 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,080 know, the dog's living environment, right? 579 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,080 Like what type of a living environment are they in? 580 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,280 You know, sometimes people are kind of like, I hope these dogs 581 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,800 aren't living in some kennels somewhere and you're just going 582 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,760 in to collect poop. No, actually they live a very 583 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,400 lovely life. You know, a lot of exercise, a 584 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,680 lot of, you know, play and all of the things that we know are 585 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,200 beneficial for dogs as they are for humans. 586 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,160 And, and then a diet that is really raw, clean, organic, 587 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,720 where they're not getting exposure to chemicals and 588 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,640 pesticides and all of the things that we know damage the gut 589 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,840 microbiome, flea and tick medicines, avoiding all that 590 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,880 stuff. So really looking at the dog 591 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,520 themselves, the dog's history and their legacy, right? 592 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,960 That's where the name comes from, this legacy of donors that 593 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,840 have had their microbiome protected because it's, it's 594 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,680 hard. I mean, it really is hard to 595 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,440 protect the microbiome in a, in an environment, in a world today 596 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,680 where it's so easy to get exposure to chemicals and 597 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,880 pesticides and other things that we know are damaging to the gut. 598 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,760 And it does take a lot of care and attention to make sure that 599 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,200 that's protected. And so the more interventions 600 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,280 that a pet has had, the more likely they are to have had a 601 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,280 damaged gut microbiome. Now even a really sick dog who 602 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,440 has C diff could benefit from another dog who has a, you know, 603 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,440 moderately healthy microbiome. But for more of these complex 604 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,840 cases, you know, where where the typical stuff just not working, 605 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,920 we need a better, healthier microbiome that represents, you 606 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,320 know, generations of protection. So that's really what we're 607 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,720 after. The the history of the donor is 608 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,360 a really critical piece and what the donor is eating is a 609 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,000 critical piece to ensure we're getting as much diversity in the 610 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,320 gut microbiome and that we're transplanting then via these 611 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,480 capsules as much of it as possible as well. 612 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,920 So I think I know this is a really to me, I feel like it's a 613 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,680 pretty difficult question to answer, especially in such a 614 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,880 short period of time. When we say a healthy 615 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,960 microbiome, how do we measure that? 616 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,920 How does legacy measure that? Yeah, that, that is a really 617 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,520 good question. I think the reality is, and I 618 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,200 have friends in the gut health testing industry and, and I love 619 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,240 to see what they're doing, but the reality is, is like we don't 620 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,920 really know. And so you can test the gut 621 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,800 microbiome and that is something that we do do. 622 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,960 It's good. Like I think testing and in a 623 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,360 lot of cases of the microbiome is just information, right? 624 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,720 Just like the friend that had, you know, some bug elevated and 625 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,320 they're deciding what to do. It's information, but it's not 626 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,480 the be all end all. We're just not there yet. 627 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,480 We don't even know all of the bugs that exist within the 628 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,440 microbiome to begin with. And so to try to assume that we 629 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,640 know what a healthy balance is, it's just, you know, it's very 630 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,840 premature. And so that's why I go back to, 631 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,120 OK, what are the things that we know damage the gut microbiome 632 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,720 and what are the things that we know support a healthy gut? 633 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,440 And knowing that, you know, microbiomes are passed 634 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,800 generationally, the more we can ensure that a dog generationally 635 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,760 has been avoiding all of these things that we know damage the 636 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,520 gut microbiome means that they're going to be at a better, 637 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,600 you know, have a better chance of having this healthy gut 638 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,120 microbiome. And, and we're transplanting 639 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,440 that. So, yeah, microbiome testing is 640 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,480 complicated. I think there's definitely use 641 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,639 cases for it where there's an advantage to doing some testing. 642 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,560 But even even that, like, you know, what matters more to you, 643 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,080 right? What's on a result of a lab or 644 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560 your pet showing an improvement in their symptoms or their 645 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,639 behaviors or some other thing, right? 646 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,199 And so it is, it is complicated. The technology is improving, you 647 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,520 know, this whole emergence of AI and being able to study all of 648 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,040 these things. I think there's going to be a 649 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,760 future where we'll get a lot of answers via the testing. 650 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,679 But where we're at today, I just don't think that, you know, 651 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,440 gives us a ton of really useful information. 652 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,440 And so, yeah, I'm on the fan. Yeah. 653 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,880 Well, again, I know when I'm trying to explain these things 654 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,480 to people, of course I'm trying to do it as not a doctor, as 655 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,280 somebody who's just like person to person. 656 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,640 Let's be real and talk about this is basically like we can 657 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,200 look at all of the tests in the world, but at the end of the 658 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,880 day, how does your dog feel, right? 659 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,120 Like what are their symptoms, right? 660 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,480 And a lot of money can go into diagnostics, right? 661 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,960 Like you can spend thousands of dollars on testing. 662 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,920 But but there's just some things we know to be foundational and 663 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,240 we know to be true. Like your dog needs to have a 664 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:39,800 healthy diet. I mean, that's just not a 665 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080 debatable fact. And so I generally think like, 666 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,520 of course, there's, there's a, there's a time where you need to 667 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,480 do testing. I'm not disputing that. 668 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,720 And a lot of the conventional labs can be awesome. 669 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,440 You got to understand what's going on. 670 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,320 If your dog is ill, like you don't want to miss some sort of 671 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,120 a disease because you're like, I'm only going to focus on, on, 672 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,080 on treatment. But in the average case, I think 673 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,880 you can go a long ways just purely with doing some simple 674 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,800 interventions. And so spending the money and 675 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,240 the effort and making these simple interventions and simple 676 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,000 changes. And then if you're still 677 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,920 struggling or still seeing challenges, then choosing to 678 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,560 potentially do some testing to guide you along the way. 679 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,560 But as the first thing to do, you know, I would start with 680 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,880 interventions. Yeah. 681 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,560 So you talked a little bit about the the capsule itself. 682 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,040 Can you explain to me what's different there, What people 683 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,120 need to know? I mean, the, the, the product is 684 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,040 encapsulated, double encapsulated. 685 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,880 So I mentioned that, right. So the outer capsule 686 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,520 entericoated. And so the, the advantage of 687 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,960 having it being entericoated and double encapsulated is it's more 688 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,440 likely to get through the the stomach and still be intact 689 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,400 because the whole goal of the stomach acid is to both 690 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,040 breakdown proteins, but also kill potential pathogens. 691 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,240 And any bacteria that come in would be considered a potential 692 00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,920 pathogen. And so we want to try to protect 693 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,560 the microbes from the acidic environment of the stomach to 694 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:08,960 try to make sure they get through. 695 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,040 The other thing is the product is freeze dried. 696 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,240 So that means it's shelf stable at room temperature, long term 697 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:15,960 storage. We just suggest keeping it in 698 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,560 the fridge, but but very stable at shelf temperature. 699 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,040 So there's no requirement for like dry ice or fancy medical 700 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,840 freezers, rather things like that. 701 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,800 And the advantage as well of a freeze dried product is that 702 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,680 it's not metabolically active. So it's not dying every day when 703 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,920 it's still in its live format. So the product and the bacteria 704 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,840 in it wake up, if you will, when they're exposed to moisture. 705 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,520 And so once they get open into the small intestine, there's 706 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,680 moisture there and they perk up and they become awake and they 707 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,680 go and do off. They go off and do their thing. 708 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,880 And so it's actually a way of like freezing in time the 709 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,880 microbiome and then waking it up again at a later date when it's 710 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,520 then needed as opposed to having, you know, a curve where 711 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,640 they're dying off much quicker when they're say, just frozen. 712 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,160 So, you know, that makes advantages from a shipping 713 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,600 standpoint, from a storage standpoint, from a shelf life 714 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,040 standpoint. So there's a lot of advantages 715 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,920 there. And then from a manufacturing 716 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,400 standpoint, our goal is to really concentrate for the 717 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,640 microbiome. We're counting on you getting 718 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,200 fiber from the diet. We're not trying to put all of 719 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,720 the fiber that would be in, you know, the stool. 720 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,760 So we're screening and getting rid of a lot of the fiber that 721 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,000 would come from a normal, you know, stool sample so that we're 722 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,280 really concentrating for the microbes and transplanting that 723 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,360 versus the fibers. So it's really concentrating the 724 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,880 microbes from the stool into a final product that is a capsule. 725 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,600 OK. So I mean, that's a lot. 726 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,160 That's a lot. But it's it's good. 727 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,800 It's good, I think people for people to know what they're 728 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,520 getting and why it's done the way it's done because you do. 729 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,160 Obviously at the end of the day, I want people to get results 730 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,800 from the product that you're selling them. 731 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,040 And again, going back to making sure you're setting, you know, I 732 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,640 used to talk about this with training a lot, setting your dog 733 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,920 up for success, but like we need to be doing the same things for 734 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,200 their health and setting up the microbiome for success and 735 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,200 utilizing FMT as part of that. So because of that, I'm really, 736 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,400 really excited to be partnering with Legacy Biome. 737 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,160 So you're going to hear more about Legacy Biome on the 738 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,920 podcast for sure. But that is because it is so 739 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,280 important, because God health is so, so important. 740 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,480 And because this is what I do, I want to keep talking to you 741 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,560 about it and making sure that you understand as a pet parent, 742 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,280 as somebody who has dogs and cats in their homes, like not 743 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,640 only why this is so important, but what you can do. 744 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,000 You can be proactive, you can be reactive, you can do all of the 745 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,440 things and utilize what's available to you. 746 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,600 And I love that legacy Biome is available direct to consumer. 747 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,120 You don't have to go through a veterinarian to get it so. 748 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,080 Why I look forward to this and you pointed something out. 749 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,400 I think we'll do a full circle before, but like you had 750 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,040 mentioned that dogs, despite them being outside of what would 751 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,280 have been a normal natural environment for them, are so 752 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,960 inclined and eager to please us and do the best that they 753 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,680 possibly can. To a flaw I mean, yes, it's it's 754 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,920 really shocking that there's an animal that exists that would 755 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,880 please you, you know, even though a lot of cases pet 756 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,560 parents don't deserve the love that their animal even gives 757 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,960 them. But but I was reflecting on this 758 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,360 and it came through actually another podcast interview that I 759 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,000 was on and someone was asking me, you know, like, why are you 760 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,840 involved in this type of work and everything? 761 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,720 But I really feel strongly, and I've experienced this myself, 762 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:50,200 that pets are like a conduit to our own health and well-being. 763 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,840 And you know, I think all pet parents can relate to a dog 764 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,160 having such a profound impact on them very positively. 765 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,800 But also there can be negative, right? 766 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,600 Like if your dog isn't well, the impact that it can have on you 767 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,720 emotionally and mentally and even physically can be really 768 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,760 profound. And so I think these dogs who do 769 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,040 so much to give us their love and undivided attention and try 770 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,760 to please us at all costs, even though sometimes they do very 771 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,880 dumb things along the way, you know they deserve our best. 772 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,160 You know they deserve our best when it comes to the food and 773 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,720 when it comes to the way that we treat and care of them, care for 774 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,800 them. And I think the more that we can 775 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,360 support them to be their best and healthy, the more that it 776 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,760 will reflect on us in a very positive way. 777 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,320 And so I think both kids and pets, they, they really have 778 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,400 this way of improving our lives and our worlds. 779 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,240 And, and I think by giving them the best that we can and 780 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,360 supporting them in all the ways that we can, we'll just make 781 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,080 everything and everyone better and happier. 782 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,040 That's amazing. Yes. 783 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,520 And you're so right. And I actually, I mean, that's 784 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,080 such a good place in the podcast, but I have one more 785 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,480 question for you. So we're just going to do it. 786 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,200 And so one of the one of the other things that I have been 787 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,680 trying to really weave into the podcast since the beginning of 788 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:12,120 2025 is incorporating a little bit more about how pet parents 789 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,840 can also take this information and utilize it for themselves to 790 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,760 be healthier. And this, while you're obviously 791 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,040 not selling FMT for humans, one of the things I know, studies 792 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,880 have shown that we share microbiota with everyone in our 793 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,080 household, including our pets. So as a naturopathic Dr. I think 794 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,240 maybe you could talk to this a lot better than I could, for 795 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,120 sure. If our pets are in such a state 796 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,800 of poor health where they are in need of intervention, whether 797 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,480 that's FMT or anything else, that we should also be looking 798 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,480 at ourselves. And especially those people 799 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,960 that, you know, let their dogs, you know, love on them and lick 800 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,160 them all over. You know? 801 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,320 Yeah, I don't disagree. I mean, microbes are moving all 802 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,160 the time. I jokingly say, you know, be 803 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,240 careful who you're hugging and shaking hands because there is 804 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:08,280 this movement of microbes all the time. 805 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,800 But at the same time, it's go out and hug and shake hands 806 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,720 because that's a big part of improving our microbiomes. 807 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,560 When I give talks at, you know, human conferences, I jokingly, 808 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,880 but it's true. I tell people go hug trees, you 809 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,120 know, like the microbiome that we have comes from the Earth. 810 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,040 And so, you know, I'm a environmentalist when it comes 811 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,840 to protecting the world, the Earth's microbiome, because 812 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,840 that's our microbiome, right? And we destroy the Earth's 813 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,520 microbiome, we will then inherently destroy our own 814 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,000 microbiome. And so we definitely need to, 815 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,560 you know, do more like the dogs and like roll around in the dirt 816 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,280 and, you know, go run into the ocean and go swimming lakes and 817 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:51,600 maybe chewing on on sticks is probably, you know, but but 818 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,600 yeah, I mean, the Earth is our microbiome. 819 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,640 And so we should go interact and play with it and don't try to be 820 00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,840 sterile because sterile is not who we are. 821 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,080 I mean, we have more bacteria in and on us than we do human 822 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,640 cells. We're more bacteria than we're 823 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,240 human cells. And so, you know, what's really 824 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,400 running the show here? It's not the human cells. 825 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,560 It ain't the brain cells either. Surely there's there's a lot of 826 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,360 control there, but a lot of it does stem from the microbiome 827 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,360 and the interplay between all of those things. 828 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,160 And so the same concepts of like having the lifestyle, having the 829 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,360 diet, having more diversity in the diet, right, getting good 830 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,520 sleep, getting exercise, all of these things play a really 831 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,080 important role in our health as humans. 832 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080 And of course, the more that, you know, humans learn about 833 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,400 what's important to them, they then translate in many respects 834 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,600 to their pets. And so we've seen that, you 835 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,720 know, like, it started with probiotics for humans and the 836 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:46,640 people, like, wait a minute, like, if this is good for a 837 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,520 human, why wouldn't just be good for a dog? 838 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,400 And so a lot of the products that were originally designed 839 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,280 for and went through clinical trials for for humans eventually 840 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,040 then made their way down to being used in our pets. 841 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,480 And so, yeah, I think that's definitely an important thing. 842 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,960 We can't overlook the importance of our human health. 843 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,760 How much, you know, the microbiomes talk back and forth, 844 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,640 I don't know. But definitely it's happening. 845 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,120 Yeah, I think this last little segment here might be one of my 846 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,920 favorites all time the episode because it is something that I 847 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,000 just have gotten so much more passionate about over the last 848 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,280 handful of years because I'm one of those I see this all the 849 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,480 time. It's either something happens to 850 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,840 you or somebody in your family and you start going down the 851 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:40,360 rabbit hole of learning about like actual, real health and, 852 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,280 and not pharmaceuticals. Like you're, you're starting to 853 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,480 learn about food and all of the things. 854 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,120 And then over time, you look at your dog and you're like, why am 855 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,440 I feeding you this crappy kibble, right? 856 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,960 Like that happens. But also I see a lot and this is 857 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,320 how it happened for me was that I just was doing so much better 858 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,880 for my pets. And then eventually one day I 859 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,320 was like, why am I not doing this for myself, right. 860 00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:11,040 And so for all of those people out there that are, that were 861 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:16,240 where I was a handful of years ago, I just know how 862 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,520 overwhelming that can be, how overwhelming that can feel and 863 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,200 that you can absolutely can make huge, huge changes in your life 864 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,320 and your pets lives. We have so much, so much more 865 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,480 control than we think we do. So I appreciate that. 866 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,520 I appreciate that and I. Appreciate you, Jason and legacy 867 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,520 Biome. Again, we're going to be talking 868 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,960 a lot more about FMT and legacy Biome because I'm just such such 869 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:47,600 a huge fan and I as my cat is, is walking across my computer. 870 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,960 What's a good segue? Because we'll have to. 871 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,760 At some point, talk more about cats and yeah, it seems to be 872 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,760 launching a cat FMT product. I'm so excited for that. 873 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,080 Because that was actually, I will say most of my this is just 874 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,640 what the universe, the universe sends you things, right? 875 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,280 Like you don't ask for it. The universe is just like, here 876 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,640 you go. And the majority of my dog 877 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,480 clients are SIBO cases. And it's, I think it's because 878 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,600 of the podcasts that I have put out in the past, most of my cat, 879 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:23,040 but I also, there are so many cats that are quote UN quote 880 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,320 diagnosed with IBD. We all know that's not a real 881 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,720 diagnosis, but that's what they get diagnosed with. 882 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,600 And there are just so many cats out there with IBD. 883 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,520 And I think that's the majority of the cat cases I get are also 884 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,520 their IBD. So I feel like this is what the 885 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,720 universe is like. Here you go gut health. 886 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,120 This is this is this is all you're doing. 887 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,040 You talked about it. I'm. 888 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,040 Showing up to deliver, yes. So I'm really excited. 889 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,880 For to be talked to be talking to you more about legacy Biome 890 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,240 not just today but also in the future. 891 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,360 Great. Well, thank you for the 892 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,680 opportunity and I look. Forward to it. 893 00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:57,840 Awesome, Jason. Thank you. 894 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:03,280 So much for being here guys. Well, First off, anything else 895 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,960 you would like to say? It's like I always like to give 896 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,080 you the, you know, last word if not possible. 897 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,840 No, no, not specifically. I mean, if you listen to this, 898 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,560 you know, go give your dog some love, your cat, you know, a 899 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,480 belly scratch if they'll accept it and, you know, keep being 900 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,880 awesome. Yeah, Yeah, all the. 901 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:25,520 All the links will be in the show notes. 902 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,360 Check it all out there, follow Legacy by them on socials and 903 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,240 I'll have a link if you are interested in purchasing for 904 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,280 your pet as well. So with that, like Jason said, 905 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,040 give your pet some extra love from both of us today and I will 906 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,480 talk to you next week. Awesome. 907 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:40,280 See your app.