1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 It's time to rethink how we raise our pets. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,840 A reset to naturally healthy dogs and cats. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,520 My name is Jessica. I'm a certified professional 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,160 canine nutritionist, raw nutrition certified for dogs and 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,440 cats, a holistic pet health coach, the founder of Wild 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,200 Wellness Pet, and the host of the Pet Parenting Reset podcast, 7 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:24,320 where every pet deserves the absolute best and every pet 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,680 parent is welcome. Learn from the best holistic and 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,880 integrative experts in veterinary medicine and 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,520 nutrition every Tuesday right here on this podcast or get 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,720 individualized help with your pet through one-on-one 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,360 consultations and take a deep dive into the root cause with 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,480 the Wild Wellness Bioenergetics at Home test kit. 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,480 If you've been feeling like there has to be something more, 15 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:54,680 something better, a better way to raise healthier pets, welcome 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,640 to the pet parenting reset. Welcome back pet parent. 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,880 Today's guest is so interesting to me. 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,640 I was actually introduced to her through our good friend Lauren 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,560 Beck's from Girls Gone Raw. And you guys love when Lauren 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,480 comes on the podcast. So anytime she has a 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,760 recommendation for me, I jump on it. 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,880 And I was like, Oh my gosh, once I talked to her. 23 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:23,720 So Rebecca Rose is the founder of In Clover, and they are doing 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,760 pet supplements. But there's a whole history that 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,280 we need to talk about. So welcome to the podcast. 26 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:31,800 Rebecca, how are you doing today? 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,360 I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me 28 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,600 on the podcast. Of course. 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,440 So the first thing I would let, so there's a whole history that 30 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,880 you have in the space and before the space that I would just love 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,480 for people to get an understanding of how you got to 32 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,000 where you are now. Because I think that is actually 33 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,160 one of the most important parts because supplements are 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,640 everywhere and it's really hard for most pet parents to be 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,200 discerning. And so your history is what 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:12,080 helps us understand why, why we can trust more in in in Clover. 37 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,560 It is confusing and, and even for me, I do this every day all 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,360 the time. And when I go into a store and I 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,000 look at the supplement shelf, it's overwhelming. 40 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,160 And so backing up just a little bit to how I came into this 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,440 space, it was pure serendipity. So I was working in 42 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:39,520 biotechnology. I am a biochemist and I had been 43 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,120 working on some projects that were funded by the National 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,480 Institutes of Health and the Center for Disease Control to 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:52,200 really look at how can we bring Wellness to the ultimate level. 46 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:59,680 So find out what is it inside the body that allows us to be at 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,520 our best. And that to me is fascinating 48 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,960 because I think we all have potential within ourselves. 49 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,720 We're all very different. And so looking at that from a 50 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,520 scientific standpoint, what we discovered was that there are 51 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,680 things that we can do from the inside out to make for 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,800 healthier, happier, just overall more Wellness within a person. 53 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,560 After doing that research, I decided I really didn't want to 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,640 be inhuman the human side of things anymore. 55 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,000 And a lot of it was that working with those big government 56 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,160 entities, there were questions that were so how many ballerinas 57 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,520 dancing on the head of a pin sort of thing, things that were 58 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,280 just almost impossible to answer. 59 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,800 And so I went into animal Wellness seeing that nobody was 60 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,160 looking at really high quality ethical scientific research on 61 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,880 the on the our pet Wellness side of things. 62 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,160 And I could take what we had learned on the human side and 63 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,960 really work to get a more healthy overall healthy animal. 64 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,240 So we focused our research at In Clover on how can we make a 65 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,480 healthier dog or cat. And interestingly enough, we 66 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,320 have moved from how to make a healthier dog or cat to now our 67 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,760 products are sought out by a zoo, veterinarians, rescue 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,400 groups that to to work with animals all the way from dogs 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,440 and cats to lemurs and elephants and giraffes and sloths. 70 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,280 We have a lot of sloths in Costa, in Costa Rica that take 71 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:47,920 our product. So if you work on really basic, 72 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,360 how to make an animal healthier from the inside out, that's the 73 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,200 foundation that we started with when I founded in Clover about 74 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,640 20 / 25 years ago. We started with that foundation 75 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,200 and we started doing clinical studies and what we discovered 76 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,520 was that nobody had ever done a clinical study on 77 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:19,480 supplementation using pets. So just taking people's pets and 78 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,680 inviting them to participate in using our supplements and doing 79 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,120 it in a university setting where we were measuring how much in 80 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,440 this particular research we were doing hip and joint health. 81 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,560 And so we were looking at animals from age 6 months to 19 82 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,680 years, so all life stages and looking at very quantifiably how 83 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,720 much weight could they put on each particular joint. 84 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,320 So we didn't exclude any animals. 85 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,720 We included all of them. We tested them using X-rays to 86 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,440 find out if they had indeed had joint problems. 87 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,920 And then we moved from there to look at can we improve on that 88 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:10,920 using the same process that I had used in this very large 89 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,120 research project. And what we learned was that in 90 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,480 over 9 out of 10 animals we could see who were diagnosed 91 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,200 with severe joint problems, we could see significant 92 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,880 improvement through a natural safe supplement in on average 15 93 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,680 days. And that was wearing. 94 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,840 Clover was born. You know, the studies are so 95 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,920 important. And I mean, truthfully, like to 96 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,800 me, being in a more holistic space, anecdotal evidence is 97 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,280 important to that's where science starts, right? 98 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:51,960 We have to see like this is happening and it's happening 99 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,960 over and over again and multiple people are saying that this is 100 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,040 happening. Maybe we should look into this 101 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,320 and like actually do a study on it, right? 102 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,640 But I know in talking to you previously, one of the things 103 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:08,520 that you talked about was also being part of founding NASC, 104 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,360 which I have heard competing views on. 105 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:19,360 So I'm curious, like I feel like we need something, right? 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,040 And it's what we've got. We need something even if it's 107 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,800 not perfect. But of course, I'd like to hear 108 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,720 your story about that as well because I'm sure that's probably 109 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 why you're like, we have nothing. 110 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,160 Let me create something right? It was really interesting the 111 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,640 way. So for folks who don't know, 112 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,080 NASC is National Animal Supplement Council and NASC is a 113 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,520 nonprofit organization that works with brands, supplement 114 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,880 brands and regulators. And the regulators that they 115 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:58,000 work with are the USDA, so that the Department of Agriculture 116 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,200 and the Food and Drug Administration and they have 117 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:08,360 NASC has created this collaboration between the brands 118 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:13,520 and the regulators to set standards, quality standards of 119 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:19,560 supplementation for animals. And in the early 2000s, we were, 120 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,440 we had already done our clinical studies at in Clover and we were 121 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,280 deciding to bring our product to market. 122 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,360 I was invited to go to Tufts Veterinary school to give a talk 123 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,960 to veterinarians about the work that we had done in 124 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,080 supplementation in the clinical studies. 125 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,640 And they were going to offer continuing education credits, 126 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,600 which is something that veterinarians are required to 127 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,520 get. I flew to Boston. 128 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:54,000 I'm, I'm in Colorado, so I flew to Boston and big, big lecture 129 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,120 hall was set up. I was ready to give my talk. 130 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,720 I was very excited to share the research that we had done and 131 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,920 how this will allow us to get better results with animals than 132 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,200 what we have currently. Not one veterinarian came to my 133 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,480 talk. Crickets. 134 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Nobody came. They just weren't ready, right? 135 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:20,640 They weren't ready for that kind of very different approach to 136 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,760 what they were used to. I went back home with my tail 137 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,920 between my legs and started thinking about how we could get 138 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,280 these products out to the marketplace. 139 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,080 So as we started to look at, and this is where we are today, 20 140 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,960 some years later, we looked at the independent pet stores. 141 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,640 These are pet stores that are in neighborhoods who are so well 142 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,800 educated. They have relationships with 143 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,320 customers and I thought this is great because they understand 144 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,480 what the consumer is asking for. They know what the pet parent 145 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,880 needs. I started talking to them, 146 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:00,080 started getting some product into the marketplace and we were 147 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,760 contacted by the state of Texas with a stop sale saying that we 148 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,280 could not sell our products into the state. 149 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,560 Then all of a sudden more more states contacted us and said you 150 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,000 have to pull your products off the shelf, you can't sell them 151 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:19,040 anymore, they're unapproved. And that was what really sparked 152 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,840 the brands that companies to come together and say we need 153 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,760 something to help talk to these regulators, educate them about 154 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,640 what we are doing so that they are not just taking the hammer 155 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,480 out and stopping consumers from having access to these products. 156 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,360 So we met as a Group, A group of brands met at a tratro in 157 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,880 Florida and we talked about what are we going to do and decided 158 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,400 that we needed to start an organization from that. 159 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,560 National Animal Supplement Council was formed and it really 160 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,640 was a crawl, walk, run process where we started with the 161 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120 regulator said we're going to now stop specifically any 162 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,360 products that have glucosamine in them will stop them from 163 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,080 being available on the marketplace. 164 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,920 And in the meantime, I'm going to each of these States and I'm 165 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,640 sharing our double-blind placebo-controlled clinical 166 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,600 studies that were done at Massey University in New Zealand, which 167 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,480 is still the global leader in research for any kind of pet 168 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,320 products. I'm showing them all of the 169 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,240 studies and they're asking me things like was it done at Texas 170 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,400 A&M? Clearly there was a disconnect 171 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:40,440 there and what NASC did when the regulators decided they wouldn't 172 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,880 allow glucosamine in the products, NASC said we're going 173 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,240 to push back because we know that companies have done 174 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,760 clinical work. We shared all of our clinical 175 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,920 data. The folks that make Glucosamine 176 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,840 shared some of their data because our data was the one 177 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:04,120 that was in, it's in actually in pets and in nobody had done this 178 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,120 before. It held a lot of weight. 179 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,200 And ultimately the regulator said, OK, we'll allow 180 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,280 glucosamine in products and we will really look at what you're 181 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,920 doing because what you presented us makes sense. 182 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:25,040 NASC then formed as a nonprofit entity and in Clover is a member 183 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,920 of that entity. They do three things that I 184 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,920 think are really important and the first is that they have a 185 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,920 secret shopper program and the secret shopper program goes out 186 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,680 by supplement products at the shelf and then test them to make 187 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:44,160 sure that what it says on the label is in the product. 188 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,360 The second thing is that there is a national Adverse Event 189 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,160 reporting system, NARES that Nair system is accessible to the 190 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,760 regulators, to the Food and Drug Administration, to the USDA. 191 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:05,000 We are required to enter all of our ingredients into that Nair 192 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,840 system. And so if there is ever a 193 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,680 problem with any ingredient, then NASC has this database. 194 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:21,200 Additionally, we are required if we get any adverse event for any 195 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,640 of our products, we're required to enter that into the database 196 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,160 and that is stays in the database forever and the 197 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,160 regulators have access to that. And I'll give you an example 198 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,200 with our hip and joint product, we enter for this database, we 199 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,680 enter everything, anything that happens that a customer says, 200 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,240 I'm not sure my, you know, something has happened and it 201 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,640 looks a little different, may or may not be because of the 202 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,880 product, but we entered in because we believe that data are 203 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,640 power and we want more information. 204 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,800 And, and the most common adverse event that we have in our 205 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,320 database is that a dog, usually it's a Labrador retriever, has 206 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600 taken our product off the shelf, has opened the lid because 207 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,720 Labrador retrievers do that and dumped it out and eaten the 208 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,040 entire container. And what we can tell them is 209 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,760 there's no problem that this is safe ingredients and taking too 210 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800 much of it may cause a little bit of transitory diarrhea 211 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,600 depending on the system and the size of the animal, but it's not 212 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,120 going to hurt the animal. And we have over 20 years of 213 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,640 data to show that. And to your point with anecdotal 214 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,320 data, we also have hundreds of thousands of dogs and cats and 215 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,680 other animals have been on our product over the past two 216 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,960 decades to show that they are safe. 217 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,440 And I think it's important not only to have that field data and 218 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,240 to have the adverse event database. 219 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,960 So that's the second thing that that NASC does. 220 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,160 The last thing that they do is that they have a third party 221 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,240 audit program. So we have auditors come into 222 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,360 our facility and in our case, they spend 8 hours, there are 223 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,960 491 questions. We're just audited. 224 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,120 They ask 491 questions and they go through all of our standard 225 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,560 operating procedures, all of our records to ensure that what we 226 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,600 say we're doing, we're actually doing. 227 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,040 When you pass as a company that really rigorous audit, you earn 228 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,080 the right to have the NASC benchmark of quality seal on 229 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,200 your label. So that's a yellow seal with the 230 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,120 NASC letters on it. So just know that that's, that's 231 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,800 sort of for my opinion, that would be like a barrier of, of, 232 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,920 of safety to look at in quality for consumers. 233 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,480 So when you're looking to buy supplements, spin the bottle 234 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,560 around and make sure it has that yellow seal on it, because then 235 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,080 you know that that company adheres to national adverse 236 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,040 event reporting, to secret shopper access, and to a third 237 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,240 party audit. Interesting. 238 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:16,920 So I'm learning a lot from my perspective as just where I sit 239 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,680 because I don't do what you do. I haven't had, you know, all the 240 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,120 experience that you have had. I look at and I see, OK, and 241 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,400 this is a lot of my audience to This is why I'm bringing this 242 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,320 up. I look at say, and this is, you 243 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,640 know, looking at the human industry versus the pet 244 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,720 industry, like where medicine and supplements and like 245 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,800 pharmaceuticals and supplements and all of that is concerned. 246 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,920 For a long time there was a huge delay between what was happening 247 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,200 in the human world and then how long it would take to get to the 248 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,800 animal world. And I think that gap is closing 249 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,080 pretty rapidly, especially with social media in the past decade 250 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,920 or so. It's like it's really closing 251 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,839 that gap. So if we go to, I don't know, 252 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,599 say a Target or a Walmart and we look at the supplement aisle for 253 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:13,079 humans that they have or even pets, but specifically humans. 254 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,359 Because when you talk about the FDA and the USDA, like that's 255 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,400 their primary, well, the FDA, their primary concern is, you 256 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,560 know, human medicine and supplements and what they want 257 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,960 to call food. But if we look at a supplement 258 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,120 aisle and we actually break it down and we go through and see 259 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,880 who owns all of these supplements, who actually owns 260 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,560 all of these companies, it all typically, for the most part, 261 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,880 the majority of these aisles are going to boil down to these like 262 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:49,200 huge investment companies that somehow or another wind up with 263 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,040 like State Street, Vanguard, BlackRock. 264 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,440 That's who actually owns everything. 265 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,000 They also own the pharmaceutical companies and supplements are a 266 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:04,080 huge, they take away at least pharmaceutical companies see 267 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,640 them as taking away profit. So it's like, well, if they can 268 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,280 at least own these supplement companies, then they're then 269 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,440 somehow some way, shape or form Black Street, Vanguard or 270 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,600 whatever they are, BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street, they're 271 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,800 still recouping their money in some way, shape or form. 272 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,880 So for a small company that isn't owned by these huge 273 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,040 conglomerates, these like investment companies, then 274 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240 that's really where they're from. 275 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,960 What kind of what I heard from you too, that's where they're 276 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,960 like, oh, no, you can't do this. And so in ASC, as far as what I 277 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,720 just learned in ASC forming, that was the pushback to say no, 278 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:56,040 this has a place. Yeah, Yeah, it and it's, and 279 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,400 what you say is so interesting because the pushback that we've 280 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,920 gotten is that and the reason that we were pushed back is 281 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,160 because there are large companies like Purina who have 282 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,120 done some testing on. I'll give you an example. 283 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,080 We have a product that is a supplement product and it works 284 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:22,440 on hairballs and cats. It did not occur to me that we 285 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,560 could not put hairball on our label and we're a small 286 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,560 privately held company. So I'm the owner of in Clover 287 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,120 did not occur to me. We put hairball on the label and 288 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,480 we got stop sale all over the country. 289 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,920 I talked to the regulators and they said hairball is a drug 290 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,480 claim and I said this is a hill I'm going to die on because 291 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:48,000 hairball is not a drug claim. And so I, I, I pulled scientific 292 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,400 data, I showed how, what the mechanism, the physiological 293 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,040 mechanism of hair balls are. It's a natural process as cats 294 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,400 clean themselves and, and presented all of that 295 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,360 information. And I learned that Purina had 296 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:09,400 done a study which the regulators accepted that stated 297 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,680 that there were only unless a product had a specific 298 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,800 ingredient that Purina's product has. 299 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,440 They could not put hairball on the label. 300 00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,800 So basically they have excluded everybody else. 301 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,440 And that's I think, I think that's sort of the spirit of 302 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,760 what you're talking about is that that is not in the best 303 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,200 interest of pet parents of pets of the industry to have that 304 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,120 sort of a consolidation in that amount of money in the industry 305 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,920 that can sway things. So what I would say from a 306 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,120 brand, a tiny brand who is out there and has been for decades, 307 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,360 sticking with the same foundation that we've always 308 00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:01,240 done, where we will look at the Physiology of the animal, what's 309 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:07,080 needed and formulate to what the animal needs and make natural 310 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,440 products based on that. Because I have experience in 311 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,200 understanding that allopathic world, that pharmaceutical 312 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,400 world. I understand what we're up 313 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,080 against. I understand how they're solving 314 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,280 problems. And it's very much on that, on 315 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,040 that pharmaceutical side of things. 316 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,920 Solving the problem is trying to mask a symptom. 317 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,880 Our approach is to work with the body to actually supplement 318 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,120 those good things in the body that allow it to heal. 319 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,560 And that works. It's proven over and over it 320 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,080 works. And I what I would say to 321 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,560 consumers is be curious, ask questions, ask those questions 322 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,280 about who's formulating your products, who's who's, who's 323 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,280 coming up with these, these ideas of what what ingredients 324 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,360 to put in and then ask specific questions about. 325 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,680 I'm curious, why are you asked? Why are you adding, you know, a 326 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,880 prebiotic into this? Why do you not add probiotics in 327 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,400 any of your products? That seems odd. 328 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,840 And ask those questions because the answers that you're going to 329 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:27,160 hear are going to tell you whether the company is sourcing 330 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,840 ingredients because it's they're the, that's what everybody else 331 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,080 uses. And they get an economy of scale 332 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040 because they're a big company. They're making a lot of things. 333 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,240 And so they get an economy of scale by using the same six 334 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,200 ingredients in all of their products. 335 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Look at the ingredient deck and ask questions is what I would 336 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,160 suggest. There are still good supplement 337 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,640 companies out there. So I don't want to paint the 338 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,800 industry as being a sellout. I will say that I have seen, 339 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,400 having done this for two decades now, I have seen so many 340 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,760 changes. And I agree with you that in the 341 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,800 last couple of years, we are seeing it go faster and faster 342 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:18,480 to getting closer to that human side, where on the on the pet 343 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,560 side, pet supplement side, you've always had companies that 344 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,440 are independent and we know that we're not, you know, we're not 345 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,560 going to, it's not the cash grab that a sub a human supplement 346 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,960 would be. So, so the advantage of that is 347 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,800 that I'm able to innovate in a really profound way. 348 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,920 I'm able to have a company that is, is sustainable, employs 349 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,120 great people, has been around for decades on the human side. 350 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,560 You could not say that because they develop products to sell to 351 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,400 those people that you need. Right, Yeah. 352 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,080 So I think you may have just answered this question with with 353 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,960 the background that you have in understanding the Pharmaceutical 354 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,360 industry. But because you did come from 355 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,600 the human side, what do you think you bring to end Clover 356 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,840 that most other pet supplement brands just don't have? 357 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:27,760 It really is innovation is it's understanding how the body works 358 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,000 and being able to innovate based on that. 359 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,120 Contrast that with another approach would be to go online 360 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,360 to look at what ingredients are popular right now. 361 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,920 I think I'll put turmeric in everything because that's 362 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,800 popular. The second thing, and this goes 363 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,480 a little bit deeper, is that we have dandelion leaf in some of 364 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,080 our products. We know that the efficacy of the 365 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,880 leaf is very different than the efficacy of the root or of the 366 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,040 flower. We have blueberries in our 367 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,480 products. We know that we can put the word 368 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,200 blueberry on our label even if we just add stems and peels, but 369 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,600 we know that the good antioxidant, the good juicy 370 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,840 nutrients are in the full blueberry. 371 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,200 So we would never do that. But if you don't know that and 372 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,440 you're just going out and you're sourcing blueberry and you're 373 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,560 looking at price, you're going to go, wow, that's a way better 374 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,400 price. I think I'll buy that. 375 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,400 And it's not going to be effective. 376 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,680 You're not going to see results. I, I think we have a certified 377 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,480 herbalist on staff. I think that's what we really 378 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,320 bring. That is a huge point of 379 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,000 difference in this industry. And I'm not sure I, I'm guessing 380 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,720 that your listeners understand that and appreciate that. 381 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,520 And I feel like we need to get more of this education out that 382 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,360 there is a difference. And if you care, be curious and 383 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:05,880 ask about that. So having spent so long at this 384 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,400 point in the supplement industry, what outside of the 385 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:16,440 NASC label, what would you suggest for a pet parent 386 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,720 listening to this to go in their cabinet right now and grab the 387 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,160 supplement and read the label and what are you looking for? 388 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,920 What are the first things you're looking for? 389 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,200 What should they be looking for? I do look when I and I read 390 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,800 supplement labels all the time and I am looking at what they're 391 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,760 two different labels. With supplements there is what's 392 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,880 called a dose form label and on those it reports the active 393 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,720 ingredients and it tells you exactly how much of every active 394 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,440 ingredient. Then it reports the inactive 395 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,560 ingredients. The second type of of label is 396 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,840 what they call a feed label and that reports all of the 397 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,280 ingredients, but it doesn't report them by active ingredient 398 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,200 or inactive ingredient. It just has all the ingredients. 399 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,960 And so I have at my desk, I have to, this is the tricky part is 400 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,920 that our products are 100% active. 401 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,760 So it doesn't really matter because everything in them is 402 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,760 active. But when you get to a product 403 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,120 that's not 100% active, and I really look at the labels, if it 404 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,960 is a dose form, like I said, it'll say active ingredients on 405 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,560 it and it will have those active ingredients by amount. 406 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,080 So look and see what the amounts are. 407 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,000 And then in the inactive ingredients, it will report them 408 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,920 by alphabetically, which is crazy, right? 409 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,080 So you'll have the active ingredients and those are 410 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,280 important. But if you have like we do a 411 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,960 soft chew, so we have to put some binders to make it into a 412 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,080 chew, those would be considered inactive ingredients. 413 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,200 Those are listed alphabetically. So you don't really know how 414 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,320 much is in there, right, Right. So for that kind of label, look 415 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,040 at the actives and make sure that there's enough of the 416 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,320 actives and that it's, it's not just the ingredient du jour or 417 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,320 they just didn't add a whole bunch of the ingredient du jour 418 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,760 in the other type of label, which is the feed label, it's 419 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,000 going to say guaranteed analysis. 420 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,240 When you spin it around, those ingredients are going to be 421 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,520 listed by quantity. So how much is in there? 422 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,280 So look at that and and those are the labels I read really 423 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,680 closely where it's late listing them by quantity. 424 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,840 And what I want to see is if it says we have digestive product 425 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,200 that has prebiotics on it, I want to see those prebiotics 426 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,480 really close to the top. I want to see organic inulin way 427 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,960 up at the top. I don't want to see it as the 428 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,840 23rd ingredients because then I know they just added a spoon 429 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,640 wave of it. It gets more complex because we 430 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,640 add Turkey tail mushroom to our products. 431 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,840 You can put Turkey tail mushroom and add the mycelia, which is 432 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,200 what's underground. We add 100% fruiting body 433 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,160 because that's where the nutrients are. 434 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,920 So just reading the label, you're not going to understand, 435 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,960 are they adding really the active component or are they 436 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,360 just adding so that they can put a bigger number? 437 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,280 Are they adding or put it closer to the beginning of the 438 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,960 ingredient deck? Are they adding that blend of 439 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,040 not so great ingredients? So that so reading the label and 440 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,520 ASE quality seal benchmark, that's like a low bar to make 441 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,920 sure then reading the label and then looking at the brands. 442 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,560 What we find in this industry is that if you have a brand that 443 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,880 does it well, they do it well across the board. 444 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,960 They're not going to just source one product. 445 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,360 If you've used say their hip and joint product and you found 446 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,480 great results for that, then support them, look at their 447 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,800 other products that you could that and really support those 448 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,680 brands who are doing the work to curate the right ingredients. 449 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,520 Every supplement label has a contact. 450 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,480 It has contact information on it that's required if they're 451 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,520 labeled correctly, I guess that would be the other place. 452 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,520 If you pull up a supplement and it doesn't have the company 453 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,640 phone number on it and how to get in contact with them, that's 454 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,480 not right. You should be able to get in 455 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600 contact with them. That might mean that they're 456 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,920 just, you know, they're, they're not really in the business, 457 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,240 they're just doing this as a money grab. 458 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,280 And so make sure it does have a contact. 459 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,040 And when you call them, you should be able to talk to a 460 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,880 person. I always like to say, ask them 461 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,080 if they can talk, if you could talk to the person who 462 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,160 formulated the product, because that's going to be really 463 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040 telling. Because if they don't know who 464 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,560 formulated their products, who came up with this this 465 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:31,240 formulation, that's a bad sign. That's yeah, very interesting. 466 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,600 You know, and one of the things, this is just a side tangent 467 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:41,320 honestly, that I've learned in life is that companies, so many 468 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,360 companies tend to put somebody on the phones for customer 469 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640 service, whether that's somewhere you go in person or an 470 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,280 online store, wherever that is like completely under trained, 471 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,120 the lowest paid person on the staff. 472 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,200 And this is often times like this is your company's 473 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,600 representation to the public a lot of time. 474 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,440 And it's like that should be one of your most well trained staff 475 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,920 member, But that's just not like the world we live in. 476 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,560 People don't value reception. Like you know what I like it's 477 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,040 it's very interesting. That's just a side tangent that 478 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,840 I. That is interesting and I agree. 479 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,600 And that is something that if if I call a company and I get that 480 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,680 person who has no idea or just has a script in front of them 481 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,960 and isn't able to have agency to to even talk to me off script, 482 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:43,320 that sets off some red flags. Yeah, I mean, I like I get being 483 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,400 a small company and you know, trying to trying to be 484 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,280 everything to everyone all the time and, and trying to fill in, 485 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,360 fill in gaps. But yeah, it is definitely 486 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,040 difficult because you really do, like you said, you, you anything 487 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,120 public facing, anything talking to whether it's your website or 488 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,720 who is answering your phone like it, it really is so important 489 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,160 and so many companies just don't value that. 490 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,240 Not just, and I don't just mean with like in the pet and I mean 491 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,680 everywhere. Like if you think of anywhere 492 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,840 you call, like how frustrated are we with customer service 493 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,880 just anywhere we call? Absolutely. 494 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,280 Yeah. But anyway, that's a tangent, a 495 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,880 little tangent. I went on what you mentioned 496 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,800 earlier about when you were talking about innovation. 497 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,960 You also said something about like sustainability because and 498 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,320 there's a lot of different ways you could look at 499 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,000 sustainability. You can look at sustainability 500 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280 as far as, you know, the ingredients that you're using 501 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,480 and the impact to the earth and the the environment. 502 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,920 You can also look at sustainability as like you know, 503 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,960 are you going to as a business be able to grow and provide 504 00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:01,000 these the same quality of product as you're growing to 505 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,080 more and more pets. And I'm curious what your 506 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,159 thoughts are on what you meant earlier by sustainability? 507 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,320 I love your insight on that because when I said the word 508 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,440 sustainability earlier, it really was that we have a good 509 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:24,600 foundation as a company that allows us to continue to provide 510 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,679 products 2 pets over a long period of time. 511 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,080 And that's really important to me foundationally as a company. 512 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,040 We're not built on a House of Cards that's just held up so 513 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:43,159 that we can then, you know, move it to somebody else and do other 514 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,360 things. We have deep roots. 515 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,080 We have a deep foundation. We also are passionate about the 516 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,719 other meaning of sustainability, which is interesting to me 517 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,000 because yesterday we took our full team over to the Pet 518 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,840 Sustainability Coalition, of which we're members were 519 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,800 actually a top award impact leader for supplementation for 520 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,920 the sustainability through third party audits. 521 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,480 So very important to us. I also give back, I volunteer on 522 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,960 the board of directors. I really believe in 523 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,040 sustainability and giving back. We went over and we did a class 524 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,080 on sustainability one O 1 to learn what it means and it means 525 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,520 so many different things to so many different people. 526 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:39,160 From our perspective, it does mean to respect and give back to 527 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:44,520 people, planet and pets and and that for us is critical what 528 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,560 we're doing. We need to, it's a journey and 529 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,120 we need to continually improve upon the ingredients that we're 530 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,200 sourcing, the packaging that we're using for those 531 00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,040 ingredients, making sure that we're aware of what our impact 532 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:08,360 is at every step of the way. We also have a lot of passion 533 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:14,000 around community and inclusion. And we have over the past 534 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:19,960 decade, 2 decades, we have hired over and had working at our 535 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,520 facility over 45 individuals with intellectual and 536 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,760 developmental disabilities. And so right now if you purchase 537 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,960 our products, if you're purchasing our, we have a 538 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:39,160 connect in soft chew 20 count, which is a small container that 539 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,440 has to be assembled. So we put the the soft chews 540 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:49,400 into a sealed bag and then that goes into a container with a 541 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,280 label on it that is assembled by individuals with intellectual 542 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,000 disability. If you buy our Optojust sticks, 543 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,520 same thing. They are put into containers 544 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:06,880 because we believe that we should provide a world for all 545 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,200 abilities and that allows us also as a company to have that 546 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,120 diversity of thought and it really makes us a better 547 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,640 company. It is such a win, win situation 548 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:24,080 and in all of those things I see as part of sustainability. 549 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,800 And, and this is, this has been a huge journey for me because 550 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,880 when I first started 11, almost 11 years ago, we joined the PET 551 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,320 sustainability Coalition. I thought that sustainability 552 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,120 meant that all of our packaging was recyclable, which we had 553 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,760 already done. So I was like, check, we are a 554 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480 sustainable company. And then I learned that, Oh my 555 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,400 gosh, this journey is we're just going to continue on this. 556 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,200 Yeah, it is. There's so much to think about, 557 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,120 South, Very much to think about. In fact, I'll just one thing I 558 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,480 learned this year, early this year, I was listening to Rita 559 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,600 Hogan, who's a canine herbalist that everybody's familiar with. 560 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,720 Actually, it was on one of the podcasts I had with her and I 561 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:09,960 was talking about essential oils and because she obviously works 562 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,120 with plants and essential oils are derived from plants, 563 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,400 obviously. And she was like, yeah, but it's 564 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,960 not sustainable to use essential oils in the way that we're using 565 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,520 them today, which also is probably why there's so many, 566 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,800 like, counterfeit, not actual essential oils that are labeled 567 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,000 as essential oils on the market. And that has really made me 568 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,720 rethink how I utilize essential oils, not just for me and my 569 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,840 pets, but in my practice working with clients one-on-one. 570 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,480 And there are a handful of things that I do like that, that 571 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,160 I am like when, when I realized like with colostrum or something 572 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,160 like that, I realized there's an ethical concern. 573 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,840 It is definitely not the first thing I reach for anymore. 574 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,120 It's something that I'm like, it's there. 575 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,640 It's really effective. But let's try some other things 576 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,240 first because it's, it's not sustainable in the way that 577 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,080 we're using them right now. So I, I appreciate that very 578 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,920 much and I love to continue to learning like what is and isn't 579 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,600 sustainable. And you know what? 580 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,960 This, whatever I'm using a recommending has an impact on to 581 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,040 the planet, to the environment because it's it's, you know, 582 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,720 it's just actually recording a podcast with Billy Hookman 583 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,800 yesterday and he brought up kelp. 584 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,320 And I was like, yeah, you know, kelp was a big deal this year 585 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,040 because we realized that apparently there isn't, I don't 586 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,360 know, like, I haven't done a deep dive, but apparently there 587 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,760 isn't a source of help anymore that doesn't contain some amount 588 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,520 of lead in it because we've destroyed our planet, right? 589 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,840 And like this things like that that just make me think like, 590 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,160 how can we do better? And not just, you know, bitch 591 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,320 and moan at manufacturers for putting out a product that has 592 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,080 lead in it, but realizing that we have done this to our planet 593 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,640 and this is where we are now. So what do we need to do to 594 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,600 backtrack and fix things? Another tangent, I'm sorry. 595 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,360 But that is, that's something that you have degenerative 596 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,000 practices and then you, you have sustainability and then you have 597 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,680 regenerative practices. And we are at a point where we 598 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,960 can't afford just to go to sustainability. 599 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,480 We have to go to regenerative because we've done the 600 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,680 degenerative piece of it. And, and, and it, it is, it's a 601 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,720 heavier lift and it is possible. And, and I'm, I'm going to give 602 00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,960 you 1-2 examples, one action item. 603 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,120 So one example is that we use a very specific kelp, 604 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,400 ascofylamidosin and two of our products. 605 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:58,000 And this kelp is a huge and this is to me is fascinating because 606 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,480 of the sustainability story. And and it gave me goosebumps 607 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,760 when you talked about Rita talking about essential oils. 608 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:09,760 Oh my gosh, that is powerful it and with the kelp it, it is we 609 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,280 have to be, we have to be thoughtful about this. 610 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,120 So our source of kelp comes from a farm in northern Maine that's 611 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,280 harvested off the Atlantic Ocean. 612 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,520 The the, the woman who owns this, she's been doing, has been 613 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,280 doing this for 35 years. She has been a good friend of 614 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,360 mine and of sadly, she passed away this year. 615 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,720 And that's is her, her work is being carried on and she has 616 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:49,320 pictures of over 35 years how her kelp beds single strain, so 617 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,680 very important that these are her kelp beds are have 618 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,000 flourished more than the native kelp out in the ocean, which she 619 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,880 is in the ocean. But she has her own beds, but 620 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,680 they flourish more. And the reason is because she's 621 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,280 cutting them back. She's tending to them. 622 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,000 And if you've, you know, if you've gardened, if you've grown 623 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,280 roses, you know that you can make them better by cutting them 624 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,560 back and tending to them. She is very careful about how 625 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,560 she handles her kelp and when she harvests from harvest to 626 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,800 when it goes into our dental product or into our daily multi 627 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,160 product, it's 8 hours time. So it's not just laying out on a 628 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,040 beach, getting contaminated, it's going right into her 629 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,800 facility, all of those things that are thoughtful and careful. 630 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,720 And even though we still label it kelp, it's very different 631 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:49,400 than going out there and getting some polluted, some polluted 632 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,720 kelp. The action that you can take, 633 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,280 and this is totally a tangent, is that we make decisions about 634 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,720 what we're going to put in our supplements and use 635 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:03,720 sustainability as one of the factors. 636 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,240 We don't have very many meat products in our supplements and 637 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,840 the meat products that we do, we're using like the trachea 638 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,920 that would be thrown out in many cases. 639 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,480 So we're taking pieces, parts that we can pull nutrients from. 640 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:28,960 Overall, we're using a a plant based or fermentation based 641 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,800 structure. When you buy pet food it's going 642 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,600 to have protein and typically that will be meat, beef, 643 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,320 chicken, Turkey, lamb as one of the top ingredients. 644 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,360 Our pet food companies have become marketing companies and 645 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,600 as such they have marketed human grade ingredients as being 646 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,920 critical. What we're taking from our 647 00:43:54,240 --> 00:44:00,680 protein meat chain does not have to be to go into the pet market, 648 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,200 does not have to be the human grade ingredients. 649 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,840 We can pull those nutrients out of the byproducts and Co 650 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,480 products, the organ meats, the things that are full of 651 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,160 nutrients and they're things that humans don't want to eat. 652 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,200 They don't want to eat the lungs, they don't want to eat 653 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,760 the organs. But our pets can derive those 654 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,800 nutrients from those pieces, parts until we recognize that 655 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,280 the marketing piece of this and saying look how good this is, 656 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,720 this is all human quality is not a good thing for our planet and 657 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,840 it's not necessarily a good thing for our pets. 658 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,760 They need some of these other nutrients that are available. 659 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,640 Let's put another lens on this and let's say in our pet 660 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:51,280 industry, let's purchase things that are the nutrient dense Co 661 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,600 products. Let's look for that, and let's 662 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,280 not be so hung up on human grade everything. 663 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,400 I totally agree with that statement about human grade 664 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,200 being just so I'm very entrenched in the pet food world 665 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,000 and it is something that a lot of people are like no, this is 666 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,400 the hill I'm going to die on and I'm not buying anything that 667 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,640 isn't human grade for my animal. And while I appreciate where 668 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,320 they're coming from and what they think they're doing, it 669 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:28,240 isn't like you said, like, but also we allow so much like it's 670 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:30,520 looking at the wrong things, just like you were saying it's 671 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,120 looking at the wrong thing. Like, yes, do I want to make 672 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:38,840 sure that it's not, you know, slop that has been left outside 673 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,160 that, you know, it's rotten and rancid and going into my pet 674 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,000 food as a meal product, yes, I do want to make sure of that. 675 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,320 But also like I want to make and I want to make sure that it's 676 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,400 not a carcass that was failed by the USDA because it has a 677 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,760 cancerous tumor. Like those are the things that I 678 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,480 do want to make sure of. But just like you said, like 679 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,920 there's so much that doesn't go into the human food supply that 680 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,160 is perfectly good and has really incredible nutrient value that 681 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,800 just humans won't eat. But it's amazing for our what it 682 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,120 probably would be really good if we did eat it, but we're not 683 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,720 going to really amazing for our pets. 684 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,440 So it is like you just said, it's, it's, there's so much 685 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,520 marketing and, and like there's a piece of it that is true that 686 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,600 we do want to look for, but then there's this whole other piece 687 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,480 that people aren't thinking about. 688 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,960 Yeah, it can be confusing because I don't want to feed my 689 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,960 my animals Animal Digest. I don't want to feed them 690 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,760 anything that comes. You know that I am, I feel so 691 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:48,880 strongly about the, the high quality and being knowledgeable 692 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,640 to understand how to differentiate the folks who are 693 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,400 trying to put Animal Digest in a bottle and say this is good and 694 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,520 the folks who are putting organ meat in a bag and saying this is 695 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,280 great. And I love, I don't know if 696 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,160 you're familiar with, there's a company called Bond Pet Food 697 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,480 who's doing work right now researching fermentation, making 698 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:18,960 protein through fermentation. So taking a cell from a chicken, 699 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,400 putting it into a microorganism and then putting it into like a 700 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:29,360 big soup kettle and growing meat that tastes like chicken, but it 701 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,960 doesn't necessarily look like chicken, but it has the nutrient 702 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,200 profile of chicken. So it has all those nutrient 703 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,880 dense things. So somebody who has seven 704 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:47,200 chickens who are pets, members of my family, all name I, I feel 705 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,560 like that's an interesting approach that we can, instead of 706 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,760 having these mass chicken farms where we're growing meat 707 00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:00,240 chickens in a very inhumane way, we can look at other options of 708 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:06,360 how we can grow chicken without having to kill chickens and do 709 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,560 it in a very sustainable way. There's still work that needs to 710 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:15,120 be done to make this something that's commercial and something 711 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:21,080 that we would be interested in. But it's an example of how pet 712 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,640 parents can drive that kind of sustainable innovation. 713 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:32,960 Because as humans, we may not be willing to eat a Patty that has 714 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,760 the same nutrients as chicken but isn't chicken. 715 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,560 But I promise you, our pets will not have that squeaminess that 716 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:46,480 we have. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm so big into 717 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,160 regenerative agriculture because it's not just about making sure 718 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,680 that the animals that we eat that are pet seed are as healthy 719 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,720 as possible, that their lives are as good as, you know, they 720 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,200 have the best quality of life possible. 721 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,120 But it's, you know, regenerating the soil, which is like so much 722 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,760 of our soil is dead, which also means that the plants were 723 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,200 growing aren't as nutrient dense as they should be. 724 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,200 Like we we may not be getting even the medicinal qualities out 725 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,520 of them because they are they're being grown in dead soil or 726 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,320 maybe not growing at all in areas they should be growing. 727 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,440 And it's, it is very complex for sure. 728 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,200 And there's a lot that needs to be done. 729 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,000 A lot. And there are a lot of groups 730 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,560 right now that are doing work with regenerative agriculture. 731 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,720 Dave Carter at Flower Hill Institute is doing amazing work 732 00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:49,000 and supporting small, diverse ranchers at providing help to 733 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,480 make their ranch more, more regenerative. 734 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,000 And so I think there are, there are folks out there that are 735 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,000 doing the good work and for consumers to understand that 736 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,120 that work is happening, it's happening today. 737 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,000 And, and educating ourselves, being more aware, understanding 738 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,680 why it's important because we've already the degenerative side 739 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,280 has, has taken us to a deficit, which means that our plants 740 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,120 don't have the nutrients that they had before. 741 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,680 And even on my tiny little, I have 4 acre ranch and, and in 742 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,280 this tiny little ranch, I figured out a way to work 743 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,440 regenerative agriculture into our pastures. 744 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,800 So we have horses that are grazing on pasture land. 745 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,840 We take the manure from the horses, we put it back out to 746 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,400 amend the soil, put the horses out so that then they can make 747 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,960 the divots in the pasture and then their urine provides the 748 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,960 nutrients, the nitrogen, and also as they're defecating out 749 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,120 in the pasture is providing nutrients back. 750 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,680 We had our local department of AG person come out and look at 751 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,680 the soil and look at the plants because that's what our animals 752 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,920 are eating. And they're like, yeah, they're 753 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,720 native. They're not weeds. 754 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,280 We have no irrigation. We have no water on that. 755 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,440 It's just us amending and caring for the land. 756 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,840 And it's a very small, tiny little way that we can make an 757 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:24,120 impact and make a difference. But we can, by educating 758 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,280 ourselves and understanding we can make a difference in just a 759 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,120 number of ways in our world. You know, I love this 760 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,320 conversation because like surface level, somebody who's 761 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,600 who might be listening to this podcast for the first time might 762 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,160 be going, I thought we were talking about supplements, but 763 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,560 like we are like this is it goes so much more deep than just 764 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,560 what's on the label of a product. 765 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,520 And I think that's why I like having this podcast so much, so 766 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,960 that we can get into like a little bit more of the nitty 767 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,040 gritty of the things that are in my brain that I wish were in 768 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,840 other people's brain. It's powerful because that's how 769 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,280 people are going to be educated about this. 770 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,520 And your, your point is so relevant that yes, you can have 771 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,600 a company who just, they just ask somebody else to go out and 772 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,280 buy and they, they just cuz they, you know, we, we know that 773 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,760 hip and joint cell phones are big and, you know, we want to do 774 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,960 a price point of this. And so come up with a 775 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,520 formulation and you can do that. And it will sit next to a 776 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,240 product that has gone through a totally other process. 777 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,320 And being able to educate and understand. 778 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:41,600 The way to do that is by listening to these insights and 779 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,560 making your own decisions that in an educated way. 780 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,440 OK, so we are quickly approaching an hour so I have 781 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,120 just a little lightning round to end this off. 782 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,200 What, in your opinion, is the most overrated claim on a PET 783 00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:03,000 supplement bottle? This won't be popular, but I 784 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,040 know people like to see it, but I'm going to say natural. 785 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,640 And for all the reasons we just talked about, Jessica, that a 786 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,640 plant isn't a plant. It it doesn't necessarily have 787 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,720 all the nutrients. It can be natural and not have 788 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,400 all the nutrients. So I'm going to say natural. 789 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,320 Yeah, well, I mean, it's completely unregulated too, so 790 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:27,720 you can say whatever you want. Let's see if you could make one 791 00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:32,400 change to PET supplement regulation tomorrow to snap your 792 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,240 finger. What would it be? 793 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:45,440 To make a requirement that we have evidence based supplements, 794 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,360 there has to be science behind it. 795 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,280 And what does that look like for you? 796 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,520 Is there a number of studies? Are you, are you just looking 797 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,160 for a study at a reputable university? 798 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,320 Like what are you looking for as far as what does what does 799 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,160 evidence base mean to you? It means having the ingredients 800 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:12,560 and I'll just give you like the here's a kind of a bar that I 801 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,120 would say it has to be crossed having the ingredients used in 802 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,560 the species that your product is marketed. 803 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,040 Perfect, that makes a lot of sense. 804 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,920 Is there one hill you'll die on about digestive health? 805 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,200 No probiotics, only prebiotics. And what that means is I don't 806 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,920 want foreign microorganisms in my digestive health product. 807 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,480 I want food for good native bacteria that are in the gut of 808 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,560 our animals and are personalized to our animal. 809 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,640 I want to feed those bacteria with prebiotic and I don't want 810 00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:01,200 to add a foreign strain. Interesting we might have to do 811 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,840 another episode on that because that I completely understand 812 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,680 what you're saying, but I think we, you know, probiotics are so 813 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,440 popular right now and they're in everything, which drives me up 814 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,360 the wall. But it's that's that's something 815 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,760 that's something to talk about. Well, thank you so much for 816 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,800 being here, Rebecca. I appreciate you. 817 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,880 I appreciate all of the insight and knowledge you bring. 818 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,160 Where can people find you find in Clover learn more about your 819 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,800 products all of the things. You can find us at in clover.com 820 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,560 and you can find our products at your favorite neighborhood pet 821 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,200 store. There are 8000 of them in the 822 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:48,200 United States and you can learn more about us if you if you go 823 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,720 go to our website and you subscribe, our emails are going 824 00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,720 to talk about educational things. 825 00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:57,000 So you can learn more about that. 826 00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,640 And of course, in the socials, Facebook, Instagram, we're in 827 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,800 Clover. Awesome, thank you so much for 828 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,320 this chat. I had such a good time. 829 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,720 I learned a lot of wonderful things and I just want to say 830 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,280 thank you for being here, guys. Check the show notes. 831 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,360 Everything that she just mentioned will be in the show 832 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,920 notes for you to click and go straight there. 833 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:25,040 Make sure to follow in Clover. And with that, I'm going to say 834 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,360 have a great rest of your week. Please give your pets some extra 835 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,080 love from me and Rebecca this week and I will talk to you next 836 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:32,360 week.