1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,160 We're not caring for ourselves the way we should and that 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,320 affects our pets when we're burnt out, when we're stressed 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,400 out, when we're anxious, when we're sick physically, when 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,080 we're sick mentally, it affects our pets. 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:19,400 And so it is something that I have been very aware of and 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,080 trying to bring into this podcast. 7 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,880 Welcome back pet parent. We have a really cool guest 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,360 today and if well, one welcome back. 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,680 If you have been here a while, you know who I am. 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,880 My name is Jessica. I am the host of the Pet 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,840 Parenting Reset, a canine nutritionist and holistic pet 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,560 health coach. But if you are new here, thank 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,320 you so much for being here. We have a really cool guest 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,160 today, and I'm glad you'd picked this episode to join us because 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,640 Kyle Kittleson is with us. He is a senior animal trainer 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,560 and mental health advocate. You have worked, Kyle, I'm going 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,000 to introduce you in just a second. 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,560 But have worked with dogs. You've worked with all kinds of 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,680 species of animals, exotic birds, killer whales. 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,000 This is a really, really cool episode for you guys to be 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,440 joining in on. You use behavioral principles 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,320 from Arizona State University, which is really cool. 23 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:15,000 I'm glad you found a university that could teach you that 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,680 because they no don't all do that. 25 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,440 And you're also currently the host of Med Circle. 26 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,640 So you're interviewing leading mental health experts, which I 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,680 find to be a topic we really need in today's day and age. 28 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,080 You also are the creator of Baa Baa Blast, which is an 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,040 educational YouTube channel teaching children empathy and 30 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,560 resilience, also something we need very much in today's 31 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,320 society. And you have a really unique 32 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:45,760 take on the human animal bond, which I would love to talk more 33 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,240 about. But before we do, welcome to the 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,720 pet parenting reset, Kyle and. Yeah. 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,080 Hi. Hi, everybody, and hi, Jessica. 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,880 So I would just before we jump into all of that, because 37 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,960 there's so much to talk about, I would love to hear just a little 38 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,480 bit about you and why you decided to jump into this field 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,120 and how you got here. All right, let's talk straight. 40 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,920 What's going on with your dog? What's going on with your cat? 41 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,960 Do they have chronic GI issues, bad breath, bad behavior, 42 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,120 constant upset stomachs, diarrhea? 43 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,520 Do they have indigestion symptoms? 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,520 Do they have allergies? Are they itching all the time? 45 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,080 Do they have skin issues? What is going on with your dog? 46 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,360 Because chances are based on the data, based on what we know, 47 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,440 there is something going on with your dog or cat because most 48 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,480 dogs and cats in the US are not super healthy. 49 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,320 I would love to hear just a little bit about you and why you 50 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,600 decided to jump into this field and how you got here. 51 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,960 Into the mental health field or the animal space? 52 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,680 Let's go with the animal face 1st and then we'll talk about 53 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,320 mental health. I was born with this kind of 54 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,360 disgusting passion for marine animals. 55 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,920 I mean, I'm just obsessed with them. 56 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,320 I still AM. And it was no, there was no 57 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,600 catalyst to it. There was no, no one singular 58 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,840 event. It's I, I grew up in Arizona in 59 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:41,840 the desert and I think I was just enamored with the fact that 60 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,960 there was water and animals lived in there, you know, And 61 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 then when I started to learn about those animals and see him, 62 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,240 I was a big Jacques Cousteau fan and I went to marine summer 63 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,160 camps and I went to SeaWorld when I was a kid and all these 64 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,760 things. And I was like, these are the 65 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,520 best animals on the planet. Like I remember asking my dad 66 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,080 one time when I, I was really young, I go, why doesn't 67 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,120 everybody love mine animals as much as me? 68 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,120 It boggled my mind because I was like, to me, it was such an 69 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,760 obvious passion, but I never thought I would do it. 70 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,760 I never thought I would get involved. 71 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,600 Because you want to talk about a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice. 72 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,440 Go work with animals in any capacity, really. 73 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,520 I mean, it is you. You don't meet a lot of, you 74 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,200 know, animal trainers, animal behaviorists, animal keepers. 75 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,200 I mean, pick a category or a field who are making a ton of 76 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,080 money. You don't get Christmas off 77 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,600 Saturdays and Sundays. That doesn't mean anything. 78 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,360 The animals still got to be cared for on Saturdays and 79 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,600 Sundays and Christmas. So you sacrifice a lot for the 80 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,040 passion. And, and I was very selfish when 81 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,560 I was very young and I was like, I'm never going to do that. 82 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,080 I'm going to, I'm going to do other things. 83 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,880 But, but you know, I, I remember reading a book and in the in 84 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,320 college and the book said, if you are not pursuing your 85 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,480 passion and you have a passion and you're not pursuing it, you 86 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,480 are, are going to eventually end up in your passion. 87 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,320 They're like, they're like it, It will happen for you. 88 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,760 If you're not on that pursuit, you might as well get on it 89 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,040 because it's going to happen anyway. 90 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,640 And I remember thinking, yeah, right. 91 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,320 What does this book know about anything? 92 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:23,040 And then I ended up working with marine animals and I had to 93 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,440 really work to get into the field because I started with 94 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,320 exotics and I started with marine animals. 95 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,920 And I, I started with an unpaid internship in Hawaii right after 96 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,880 I graduated college and worked with tons of animals. 97 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,840 And then they hired me and then I became a trainer. 98 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,640 And then I moved around and blah, blah, blah. 99 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,360 Then I started dog training company and, you know, just had 100 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,080 this whole life with animals and it was the best, the best. 101 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,920 Like, it's just the best. Yeah. 102 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,280 As as your listeners know. It is, but you're so right, it 103 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,160 is something that they appreciate it. 104 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,080 They don't necessarily appreciate it, like show the 105 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,440 appreciation in ways that can sustain us for long periods of 106 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,440 time, but they certainly appreciate it. 107 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,480 And I think when you have the education like you do, you might 108 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,400 be able to see that appreciation a little bit better with all of 109 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,360 the behavioral knowledge that you have. 110 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,320 The average person though like that I will admit I have had at 111 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,800 least one pet since the day I turned 18 and I I have 112 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,680 experienced burnout like I have experienced on the floor crying. 113 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,480 I can't do this. What did I do? 114 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,560 Yeah. What did I do? 115 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,159 I understand that. Of course I understand that. 116 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:38,120 I'm still. I just became the the proud 117 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,880 parent, my dream dream, dream, dream, dream pet as a macaw. 118 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,000 And I was never. And I worked with lots of 119 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,480 different parents in my career and I, I was never going to get 120 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,600 a Macon until I was ready financially, till I had the 121 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,200 space and I had the time to do it the way I wanted because I 122 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:01,040 really wanted as close to a zoological set up as I could for 123 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,200 cleanliness, for, you know, the Wellness of the animal, 124 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,000 etcetera. And well, I finally got there 125 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,640 and I've been wanting this since I was 13 years old. 126 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,360 This, this bird, and I'm 39. I got her last year when I was 127 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,920 38. I've had her for about a year 128 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,400 and a half, two years now. I'm still waiting for that 129 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,960 moment where I go, Oh my gosh, this is overwhelming. 130 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,600 But I'm, I'm still in the honeymoon phrase two years later 131 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,600 where I, I love everything. Even when she poops on the 132 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,600 ground, I'm like, I get to clean up bird poop. 133 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,840 This is I'm so lucky. Oh. 134 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,800 My gosh. Well, is she going to outlive 135 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,920 you? Yeah, so she's in my will. 136 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:38,040 So if today I die, she goes to my best friend and then he works 137 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,680 with AI, call it the council, a council of people that I've 138 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:43,240 worked with and met throughout my life. 139 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,120 We're all bird people. And he also gets some money. 140 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,920 And his job is to find her, her new forever home. 141 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Now, while I am alive, my job is to put that, put that home in 142 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,080 place. But in the interim, I don't have 143 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,440 that yet. I don't have somebody where I 144 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:00,960 go. Yeah, you, you take her. 145 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,960 I feel good about that. And so hopefully I find that. 146 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,640 But yeah, hopefully she does outlive me. 147 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,000 And I of course, I went through all of that. 148 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,200 And I've been thinking about this since I was 13. 149 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,560 So I, I, I, I, I did it this way. 150 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,200 And there are good things about it and bad things about it, but 151 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,960 this is the way we're doing it. Yeah, birds are very interesting 152 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,360 to me. I have a bit of a fear of birds. 153 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,520 I don't think I told you that our like pre podcast chat. 154 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,960 I have never My mom had some birds when I was growing up and 155 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,640 they were Jabba rice birds and they like it was a male and a 156 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,480 female. They like mate for life and the 157 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,440 male would like Peck at the female to where like she would 158 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,600 get sores and they would get infected and all the things. 159 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:50,880 And one time she died and then he died because they don't they 160 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,560 they mate for life and then they're done. 161 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,240 And I just like, like it was one of the first times in my life 162 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,680 where I was just like bawling my like I had no, I did not really 163 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,480 participate in the care of these animals. 164 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,280 I cried so hard and I'm like, yeah, death is real. 165 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,880 Yeah, right. And I don't know if that changed 166 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,280 my perspective of birds in general, but I'm definitely 167 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,000 scared of them. I they, I have had bird like a 168 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,040 pet bird, like chasing around the house. 169 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,320 And I'm like, no, I cannot do that. 170 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,280 Get it? And you know, the macaw I have 171 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,040 is the largest of all flighted parrots. 172 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,720 And she's 3 lbs. She's 3 feet long, she's huge. 173 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,760 She's massive. She's got the biggest beak of 174 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,200 any parrot. And I mean, not any parrot, I 175 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,920 guess there are certain, but definitely the strongest beak of 176 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,600 any parrot. And when people and I take her 177 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,280 out all the time and when people see her very common reaction as 178 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,680 I'm afraid of birds, I get it. I understand they fly, they're 179 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,880 unpredictable. And parrots and birds are not 180 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,120 domesticated animals. And you know, these, these are 181 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,800 exotic animals. And that's a whole different 182 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,880 type of trust building, relationship building and 183 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,560 understanding right now. Like you said, so many nice 184 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,800 complimentary things about me, how I have this knowledge and 185 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,040 background of behavior. But when I got this bird, I 186 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,640 found the guy who's like the bird guy, OK, His name's Chris 187 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,240 Biro. He's trained every bird trainer 188 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,360 in America and he's the number one free flight bird trainer in 189 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,560 my opinion. And I meet with him every single 190 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:22,560 week for three hours virtually. It's a long, long class. 191 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:26,240 It's one-on-one. And he teaches me every single 192 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,000 thing you can think about parrots, the Physiology, the 193 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,720 biology, the history, their adaptations, their mating, their 194 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,920 upbringing, everything. Because I'm like, I, this is 195 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,560 what I'm doing. I'm not having children, I'm not 196 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,080 seeking out of family. I'm not doing any of that. 197 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,040 My dream hasn't been get into a house, get a bird, get this 198 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,480 specific bird. Like this is what my focus is 199 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,080 on. All my money goes to my bird, 200 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,240 everything. I mean, I, I drastically 201 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,280 underestimated the cost of this bird because I'm just like, he 202 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,560 needs this, she needs this. I want a bigger this, I want a 203 00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,520 better that, you know, get her two of those. 204 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,480 And it's, it's, I tell people never ever, ever get a bird 205 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,200 ever, ever. No, I, nobody is ready for a 206 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,800 bird. The average parrot is rehomed 9 207 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,480 times and it's life 9 times. And part of that is because they 208 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,920 live a long time OK, but the other, the main part is that you 209 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,880 have these Beautiful Creatures, beautiful that they can talk 210 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,400 sometimes with people go nuts for. 211 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,520 And the idea is the perception is that, oh, I'll buy it a cage 212 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,480 and I'll live in the cage and I'll feed it and give it water 213 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,720 and I'll have this cool bird that'll be so cool. 214 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,560 And I'll talk and my friends will think it's cool. 215 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,120 Well, you really bought something that's way more 216 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,760 intelligent than the dog you got. 217 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:46,440 You bought something that can fly, which is a set of 218 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,600 challenges. You bought something that is 219 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,560 inherently destructive and wants to be destructive. 220 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:55,160 They want to destroy things. That's what they wake up. 221 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,040 They're like, today I got to destroy and, and they're 222 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,840 expensive. They're really, really 223 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,760 expensive. So people go, I got to get rid 224 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,680 of this thing and then it's terrible. 225 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,960 It's that's why, that's why I was doing another podcast and I 226 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,640 said, Jessica, I was like, if I had to guess, I would guess. 227 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,240 And, and y'all, I know there are bird people listening, so don't 228 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,080 get mad at me, but I would guess that 10% of bird owners are 229 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:24,080 meeting minimum standards of care, meaning 90% of birds are 230 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,880 living in conditions that for any number of reasons I would 231 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,960 consider subpar, not not meeting the minimum requirements because 232 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,080 they're so difficult. You know it's not a cat, it's 233 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,000 not a fish. Well, it's interesting because 234 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,320 I'm thinking like outside of the flying thing, cats are I, I've 235 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,320 said this so many times and people do come at me about the 236 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,920 statement, but I, I feel like cats are more difficult than 237 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,280 dogs. And I have a feel, I say this a 238 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,280 lot too, that I feel like more cats are not properly, like, I 239 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,560 still am happy that they're in a home, they're being fed litter 240 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,120 boxes are clean, like I'm happy about that. 241 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,920 But generally speaking, I, I feel very much somewhat like a 242 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,400 similar thought process to cats that you do about birds, that 243 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,640 they're really not getting what they need in our homes more 244 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,760 often than not. So everything you're saying 245 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,360 about these birds, I'm like, I say that about carrots, all the. 246 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,160 Time yeah, and I think there's probably more resilience in a 247 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,920 cat or a dog in most homes than an exotic bird who's never been 248 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,440 domesticated. The bird the bird suffers at a 249 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,840 harder rate than a cat who's maybe not getting the 250 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,400 stimulation, engagement, nutrition it needs or whatever. 251 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,920 Yeah, but the truth is, is like, and you know what, a lot of you 252 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,680 know, I'm not having kids, but all my friends have kids, you 253 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560 know, and they see me, everything I do to take care of 254 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,800 Spire, that's my bird. Her name's Spire. 255 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,920 And they go, Kyle, like you, that sounds even harder than 256 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,280 having my kid. Like, go. 257 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880 That cannot be true. They go well, the way you do it. 258 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,000 It's definitely harder than having a kid, you know? 259 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,440 So you could also make it a part if you want it to be. 260 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,280 Yeah, yes, yes, yes. So I of course, of course, we 261 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,040 talked to the very beginning, you do a lot with mental health 262 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480 and I definitely want to talk as much as we can about that. 263 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,000 But before we do get to the mental health aspect of this, 264 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,720 because there there is a human animal bond that is I think it 265 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,040 encompasses so much of our lives that we're not like tapping into 266 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,840 much of it. But I'm very curious before we 267 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,600 start talking about all of that, like how similar because I train 268 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,760 dogs for a little while. I don't do it anymore. 269 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,280 I've got over at, like you said earlier, people get into working 270 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,720 with animals and then it's like this isn't this isn't. 271 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,880 I was one of those people that got into training dog. 272 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,480 I really did it because I wanted to keep dogs out of shelters and 273 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,720 rescues. I was like, well, this is 274 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,600 something I can do. And then I realized how much 275 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,960 it's actually people training when you're doing it like 276 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,200 one-on-one in homes. I'm not, I wasn't over here 277 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,000 training like canine police dogs or anything, right? 278 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,040 It's just, I need my dog potty trained. 279 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,680 I need my dog to stop jumping on me, like those kinds of things. 280 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,480 And I'm like, it was, it was so much people training. 281 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,119 But so I'm curious how what you're doing in like, I assume 282 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,800 like a zoo setting with these exotic animals. 283 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,240 And you can correct me on that. How different is it because 284 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,400 you've done both, You did the dog training, like how different 285 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,040 is it really? The training is not different at 286 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,600 all. I mean train a dog, train a 287 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,480 whale, train a bird, train a mouse. 288 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,720 I mean, it really is fundamentally the same where 289 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,520 species specific behaviors or nuances are certainly a 290 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,240 consideration. But even in dog training you see 291 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,000 that among different dog breeds. So I don't even think that's 292 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,440 that different. The big difference is in a 293 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,920 zoological setting, you are working with a team who's there 294 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,200 full time to train these animals and make sure they're good. 295 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,440 That's their whole your whole job and you're not doing it 296 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,720 alone. You got tons of people doing it 297 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,400 and you got a vet staff doing it and you've got every, if you're 298 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,880 at a good facility, you've got every single thing you could 299 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,760 possibly need to make this animals life enriching and 300 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,080 stimulating and vibrant and awesome. 301 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,400 And when you're working with dogs, you don't really have 302 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,000 that. No ones doing it full time, no 303 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,160 ones waking up and going. Now how do I've just got to 304 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,840 think about my dog all day today? 305 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,400 They're not doing that. You know, they trained for 15 306 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,000 minutes and they're like, oh, that was good enough. 307 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,440 I hope my trainer doesn't yell at me, and that'll be the end of 308 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,680 it. And so I think that's a big 309 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,960 difference. But the training is the same. 310 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,440 I mean, with, yes, nuances across animal types exist, but 311 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,360 the training's the same. And the caveat, I would say is 312 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,640 if you are a dog trainer who uses punishment, which by the 313 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,120 way, I think is coming back a little bit. 314 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,640 I Yeah, I was, when I was really in the dog training world, I had 315 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,200 a dog training company and I sold it. 316 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280 And then I was a dog training consultant and I consulted other 317 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,920 dog training companies both on the business side and actual 318 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,440 training. I did more the business side at 319 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,560 that point than actual training. But, and it was no one did 320 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,560 punishment. I mean, it was every, it was 321 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,880 like, now I'm seeing that come back a little bit. 322 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,640 And in a zoological setting, there's no punishment, not at 323 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,040 anyone I've ever worked. And I've worked in multiple 324 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,040 facilities and I know people at virtually every facility and 325 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,320 that doesn't exist. So if you are training a puppy 326 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,040 with punishment, that's not going to work on a tiger, OK. 327 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,600 So I think that could be a difference there. 328 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,720 And I will also say this, the best relationships I've had in 329 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,360 my life are with animals. And the best animals I've had 330 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:48,960 relationships with were more intelligent, higher intelligent 331 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,760 animals. Yes. 332 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,320 I love a dumb lab, OK. I had one for 13 years and she 333 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,800 was fabulous. She died this year. 334 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,360 It was terrible. Worst, worst thing ever. 335 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,000 Everyone has gone through that. It's terrible. 336 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,600 We all know that. And I love that, right? 337 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,840 She's the best dog. Not the smartest, but so 338 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,880 awesome. Well, you work with a dolphin, 339 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,680 super intelligent. You work with a whale, even more 340 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,720 intelligent. And then that intelligence, it 341 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,360 almost like brings them closer to get you together with them. 342 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,200 And then when you start teaching them things and then you Start 343 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,040 learning their nuances and their their personality, and then they 344 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,440 Start learning your nuances and personality. 345 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,280 Now you have this bond that I have never recreated the same 346 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:40,120 way with, with a pet, with A and I love my pets so, so much. 347 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880 That dog Callie, Oh, my God, Just thinking about her, my 348 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,720 heart skipped a beat. But it was different than the 349 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,560 relationships I had with dolphins, for example, because 350 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,000 they're just you're on a different playing field. 351 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,920 It's like, can I really become best friends with a six year 352 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,400 old? Probably not. 353 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,680 Like we don't have enough like, and he's not smart enough for 354 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,800 me. So I need someone around my age 355 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,920 where I can be like, all right, We're we're smart. 356 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,080 Yeah. So OK, I saw this the other day 357 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,880 and I knew I had to like bank it for something. 358 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,080 You know those talking buttons that people use for their dogs 359 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,480 and cats? OK, so there was this one cat, 360 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,120 and it's not an account I follow, so I couldn't tell you 361 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:23,040 even the cat's name or anything. But this cat, Oh my goodness. 362 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,080 It was watching like on repeat, a Disney movie. 363 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,840 I don't remember which one. It was Moana or something. 364 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,400 I have no idea. I don't, I don't know, follow 365 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,800 them in the movie. In the real, they were showing 366 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,160 someone in the movie was teaching someone else their 367 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,000 language. It was a different language and 368 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,600 it was the word for it was either welcome or hello, I don't 369 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,600 remember which one. And so the cat kept going over 370 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,880 to her buttons, saying, pushing the new word button. 371 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,440 And then the person finally caught on like, oh, she's trying 372 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,680 to get me to put a new word on the board. 373 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,480 And just out of, like, trying to figure things out, she put this 374 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,800 word that's in another language on the board. 375 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,800 And so once she did that, the cat hit the button with this 376 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,840 word in a different language. And the person, you can hear the 377 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,000 person saying, yeah, you know, what does that mean? 378 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,160 And the cat goes over and pushes the English word for whatever it 379 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,320 meant. And she's like, this move, My 380 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,200 cat is learning a new language from a movie. 381 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,640 And I'm just scared. Like that's crazy to me. 382 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,440 Yeah, those things are crazy and I never have. 383 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,280 I've never actually seen one in person. 384 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,880 I, I don't know anyone personally who's used it. 385 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,160 I've never used any of it. The first one I ever saw, I 386 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,840 think it was a sheepdog that got really famous for it. 387 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,920 And we chatted actually online a little bit because I had a it 388 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,800 doesn't matter why. So here my response to that 389 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,120 though, is it's very easy for us, especially with pets. 390 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,200 OK, like take exotics out of it. Pets, the ones who share our 391 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,800 bed, the ones who we give voices to. 392 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,920 And you know, all these things for us to be very 393 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,200 anthropomorphic. And it's in that space of 394 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,960 anthropomorphism. We can be like, oh, she's, she's 395 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,160 trying to do this or she wants this. 396 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,920 And as the behaviorist to me goes, oh, we would never say she 397 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,600 wants that because you don't know, you don't know, you might, 398 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,600 you might be right, but you don't know you, you try to speak 399 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,560 and think as factually and unbiasedly as possible. 400 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,800 So the cat presses the button. We know that the cat press the 401 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,800 button. The cat wants the thing cuz it 402 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,080 da da, da da press the button. Who knows, maybe, maybe not. 403 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,640 And so like the right now there's a parrot going viral 404 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,120 because the parrot's communicating through an iPad. 405 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,080 So I'm like, all right, let me see how the parrot's 406 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,840 communicating through an iPad. And there are grossly 407 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,160 exaggeratory conclusions based on the parrot's behavior. 408 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,360 Like the parrot, you know, clicks something and they're 409 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:02,160 like, oh, you know, love. That's because it's 3:00, and 410 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,400 grandma always calls at 3:00. And he loves grandma. 411 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,080 So he clicked the heart. And you're like, no, that's how 412 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,440 do you know that? You know, that's. 413 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,680 Yeah. So I, I don't really the 414 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,760 learning language thing to me that's, that is an exaggeration. 415 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320 I don't think they're actually learning languages, but 416 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,200 associations for sure. They're, they can learn 417 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,240 associations. I did an experiment with, I hate 418 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,120 to call it experiment, but we'll call it a behavioral trial with 419 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,480 a hyacinth macaw that I worked with named Maxine, who is one of 420 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,000 the loves of my life. And what we, what I did is I 421 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,880 wanted to see if Maxine could essentially use what's it 422 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,240 called? I forgot the name of it. 423 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,160 I forget the name of it. But the trial worked like this. 424 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,800 I taught Maxine, all right, this is a rock. 425 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,040 OK, rock. So I put the rock on the table. 426 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,360 I'd say rock. And she would go get the rock 427 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,920 and bring it back and put it in my hand. 428 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,560 Be like, good job. And then I would bring out a key 429 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,160 and I'd go key and I'd train her key. 430 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,200 And she learned key meant go get that object and bring it back 431 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,720 and put it in his hand. And then I had the rock and the 432 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,920 key both out on the table. And I'd say go get the rock. 433 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,000 Great. Bring it back. 434 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,400 I'd put it back, go get the rock. 435 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,080 Great. She'd do it again, Go get the 436 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:17,880 key. Great. 437 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,120 OK, so she's distinguishing between these two objects based 438 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,120 on the the cue that I've given them, which is the name of the 439 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,320 object. So once that was completed, what 440 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,840 we wanted to, what I wanted to see is could she you process of 441 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,960 elimination. That was the phrase I was 442 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,120 looking for. Through the process of 443 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:43,440 elimination, determine the word of a new object she's never seen 444 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,480 and a word that she's never heard. 445 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,800 So I bring out a third object. The rock isn't there. 446 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,880 The key is there. And I bring out, let's say it 447 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,200 was a marble, and I bring out marble, and she's never seen 448 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,960 this and she's never heard the word marble. 449 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,360 And I say go get your marble. So she knows it, right? 450 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:02,520 I'm being a little anthropomorphic. 451 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,880 She's going all right, this is rock, this is key. 452 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,200 He didn't say rock, he didn't see K he said marble. 453 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,680 Maybe he means this third one. Whatever. 454 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,240 She went to the third one and she got it. 455 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,160 And that was a very telling thing for me that this animal 456 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:25,480 could critically think and problem solve without having the 457 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320 training, you know, initially to back it up for marble. 458 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,600 And I just thought that was very, very interesting. 459 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,440 And it, and the, and she was able to do it consistently 460 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,720 accurately over and over and over again. 461 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,920 And we could bring in new objects and she would do it over 462 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,120 and over again. And then I started doing it with 463 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,760 dogs. I started doing it with my dog 464 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,920 Cali. And I'd go, go get your bone, go 465 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,920 get your ball, go get your rope, go get your slinky or whatever 466 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640 word I'd use. And she'd go, oh, it's probably 467 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,040 that one, you know. And so they are able to make 468 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,120 those associations and I'll say learn language through that 469 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,240 process of elimination, which I think is cool. 470 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,920 Well, I think that's interesting that you're like a dumb lab, but 471 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,080 then the dumb lab, yeah. And when I say dumb lab it's 472 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,160 very tongue in. I don't even mean it insulting, 473 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,200 I mean it more as a whale. You can tell the whale to do 7 474 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,720 things and it'll all at once, you know, just with your hands 475 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,760 and they'll look at you, you know, you, you say I want you to 476 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,320 jump, spit water out your mouth, wiggle left and right, and then 477 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,080 when you're done, do a backflip. The whales like, no problem, 478 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,560 I'll be right back. And that'd be hard for a lot of 479 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,040 dogs to learn, but they do it. But it'd be harder, yeah. 480 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,840 That's so interesting, so OK, Animals in the ocean. 481 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,800 I'm fascinated by them as well. So many people are also scared 482 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,440 of them. I think it's an unknown thing, 483 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,840 right? Maybe. 484 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,520 And I also think, didn't I just see that Mexico has banned 485 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,600 dolphins in captivity now? Yeah, and I also read that they 486 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,120 are planning to release those dolphins in the ocean. 487 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,840 And when I read that, you know, I stay away from that because it 488 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,120 is a sensitive subject to me. I, I stay out of it because it's 489 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,640 so I know there are people when you said he's worked with killer 490 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,840 whales, ton of people go, oh gross, that guy, oh bad 491 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,560 Blackfish, blah blah, SeaWorld, you know, and that response, I 492 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,920 understand it. That's because I understand what 493 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,120 media is available out there to be consumed. 494 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,760 As somebody who was a senior killer whale trainer at Shamu 495 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,640 Stadium in Orlando, I can tell you that the the public's 496 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,680 perception and the reality are not aligned at all. 497 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,840 And when Mexico announces this grandiose objective of banning 498 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:46,440 dolphins for, we'll call it in captivity, my, I get enraged 499 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,480 because it's so short sighted on those dolphins. 500 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,520 Good luck getting them out in the ocean. 501 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,320 Tell me how it goes. Let let me know how it goes. 502 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,640 It's not going to go well. It's not going to go well. 503 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,520 And so because you're upset about something, you're going to 504 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880 torture hundreds of dolphins to make you feel better. 505 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,000 I don't like that. I think that's awful. 506 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,240 The animal welfare should be first, not what makes you feel 507 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:13,200 good. OK #1 #2 is the public forgets 508 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,720 or doesn't even realize that. I don't know about Mexico, but 509 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,320 at least in the United States, the facilities that house 510 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,880 animals like dolphins and whales and sea lions and Penguins and 511 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,320 whatever are used to house all of the animals that get injured 512 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,560 or beached or hurt in the ocean. We did it all the time. 513 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,920 Pilot whales would come in after getting just destroyed on the 514 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,280 beach and we'd rehab them and put them back out into the 515 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,800 ocean. If you shut that facility down, 516 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,800 where does that? Where do where do they go now? 517 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,720 Where do they go? So for me, if I could design my 518 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,480 own world, I'd be like, yeah, no animals in captivity, none. 00. 519 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,840 I would hate, I would hate that. Keep it all in nature, OK, But 520 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,280 we don't live in that world. And so now we have to think 521 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,200 what's best for the animals that are under our care. 522 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,680 I never would ever think putting them in the ocean would be 523 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,720 better for them. And if you if if go research it, 524 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,040 go Google and then make your own opinion of survive. 525 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,720 I mean, no, no. And just just the fact that 526 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,720 they're going in from perfectly clean water that's analyzed and 527 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,440 monitored and made sure it's perfect to the ocean. 528 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,160 Yeah, I mean, is a disastrous. And then two, we lose our our 529 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,120 facilities, facilities and infrastructure to help wild 530 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,000 animals. Nobody, no organization, 531 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,840 rescues, saves, releases more animals into the ocean more than 532 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,400 SeaWorld. So you can hate SeaWorld for 533 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,760 having killer whales. I understand why killer whales 534 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,120 should be in the ocean, but they're not. 535 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,640 But you, you also have to acknowledge that Seaworld's the 536 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,680 only one doing anything to help those wild animals. 537 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,240 You got some other, you got Marine Mammal Care Program up 538 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,720 and down the coast. You have little ones, but 539 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,040 they're not doing the volume that SeaWorld does because 540 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,760 SeaWorld has the space, they have the money, they have the 541 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,840 staff, you know, so he does it. I can get on my soapbox real 542 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:05,960 quick and get really. Passive. 543 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,960 I like it. I appreciate it. 544 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360 And like, and I also appreciate that, you know, you're willing 545 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,000 to just let this conversation go wherever. 546 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,240 Yeah, of course. But I think, yeah, try to get a 547 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,160 little bit back on track. So what came first as far as 548 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,240 your interest in mental health? Because you have you have this 549 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,360 series on YouTube where you're helping to educate children and 550 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,920 I imagine does is that more in your like animal wheelhouse? 551 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,880 How? How did all of this happen? 552 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,400 Well, I mean, when I so when I left, when I left the animal 553 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,640 training world, I moved to LA because I wanted to be Steve 554 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,040 Irwin, Jeff Corwin, Jack Hanna, right? 555 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,200 I was like, I'm going to have my own show on TV with animals. 556 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,800 And that never happened. And I got some gigs and did some 557 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,600 stuff and I was working. But I, I never quote made it, 558 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,680 you know, And then my boss today he's he goes, hey, I want you 559 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560 to, because I was doing all this on camera work for animal stuff. 560 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480 He goes, why don't you just do some interviews with these 561 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,480 mental health doctors? And I was like, I don't not a 562 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,120 mental health person. And he's like, yeah, but you're 563 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,080 good on camera, go do this. OK, Well, I interview, the 1st 564 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,640 doctor I interviewed was Doctor Ramani. 565 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,440 She's a clinical psychologist. And that video went to 15 566 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,320 million views on YouTube. And my boss called me and goes, 567 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,400 you need to do more interviews with these doctors. 568 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,280 I was like, OK, so then I just started interviewing doctors. 569 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,480 And then he hired me and I quit everything and went full time 570 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,560 interviewing these doctors. And I went into a studio 571 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,680 everyday and interviewed doctors from all over the world on 572 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,120 virtual, actually every mental health, almost every mental 573 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,960 health condition. And as I started in the mental 574 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,440 health space and getting educated on the topic, now I 575 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840 consider myself very educated on the topic. 576 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,520 Eight years later, I haven't talked to so many professionals 577 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,080 about parenting, so many, and they all pretty much say the 578 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,840 same thing, that our children need empathy and they need to 579 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,840 learn empathy and they need to learn resilience. 580 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,840 And we're lacking in those two areas. 581 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,000 They're learning a lot of other stuff and a lot of other things 582 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,960 are good, but where we're lacking is empathy and 583 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,640 resilience. And in not to make a long story 584 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,040 even longer, but I go see what my 3 year old nephew was 585 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,800 watching on YouTube and I looked at his mom and was like, what 586 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,280 are we doing with this? This is garbage. 587 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,200 Literally. I can't even tell you what they 588 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,760 were watching. It was so stupid. 589 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,200 And I go, we can make better programming. 590 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,000 And so I just started with animals because that's what I 591 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,400 know. And then I was like, I want to 592 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,640 have an emotional intelligence and emotional well-being 593 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,280 component to this show because we are in that developmental 594 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,760 stage 23456. These are the primal years. 595 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,240 This is where the kids are made OK in this early childhood 596 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,320 development. And so now we are hard in 597 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,480 empathy and resilience with the language we use in the shows by 598 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,480 modeling it, by having them interact with the show, by even 599 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,120 just them inadvertently learning mantras from the show of 600 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,639 resilience and empathy. There's lots of ways you can 601 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,920 prime these kids, kids for the future, you know, Because if you 602 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,800 are an empathic, resilient human being who have such an edge, you 603 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,480 have a huge edge. That is like you are a 604 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,440 superpower if you are empathic and resilient. 605 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,040 Yeah, I, I, yes, say I got the empathic part and I didn't get 606 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,800 the resilient part. Don't recommend. 607 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,159 Don't recommend what? Having empathy without 608 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,440 resilience. I don't recommend that at. 609 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,960 All yeah, it's nice to have both for sure. 610 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,000 Nice to have both. Yeah. 611 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,600 Well, and you just said that's where like little humans are 612 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,719 made in these really, really young years that I have been me 613 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,960 and and my best friend actually both have been like going down 614 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,360 the rabbit hole of narcissism lately because. 615 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,440 I know everything about that. I can talk about narcissism for 616 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,640 sure. Like we're, we're in this kind 617 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,840 of, we're in this place where everything is, everything you 618 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,480 say is, oh, that's so narcissistic. 619 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,400 There's such an art and and it's like we're missing the forest 620 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,960 for the trees because it's not everything is narcissism. 621 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,920 Not every everyone is a narcissist and so the. 622 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,080 Ones. Right. 623 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,520 And then the ones that truly are, are getting a pass because 624 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,040 everyone is. And. 625 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,560 It's like, I know, no. Yeah. 626 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,000 Yeah, there's so there's so much with with mental health and I 627 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,360 think a lot of that is like you just said is shaped in 628 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,160 childhood. Absolutely. 629 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,360 Appreciate it. So you're using, you're using, 630 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,760 you're bird a lot. In these yeah, so she comes she 631 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,880 comes on my kids show, which is Bah Bah blast and that's on 632 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,560 YouTube and has it's on some other streaming platforms, but 633 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,160 mostly on YouTube. And she, I and I make these 634 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,760 videos with my nephew and they started really because I was 635 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,800 like, let's hang out and make better YouTube videos. 636 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,120 And then he got really into being the director. 637 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,960 So now he directs, but we bring the bird in Spire. 638 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,280 She's the inspiration macaw. So when we're on a journey and 639 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,600 we're low on inspiration, we meet Spire and then she reminds 640 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,000 us all these cool things and good things that have happened 641 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,360 to us and we get inspired to continue on with our journey. 642 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,160 And so she's, you know, I like to consider her an ambassador 643 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,040 for her species, but also for the show. 644 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,200 And it's cool. You know, one of my favorite 645 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,440 things I did when I worked professionally as an animal 646 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160 trainer was name of it. And I've done 100 of them. 647 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,520 Oh, the Make a Wish Foundation because yes, you're helping 648 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,720 these children who are in just unthinkable circumstances. 649 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,640 But for these these kids to meet a dolphin or see the largest 650 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,240 flighted parrot, like they are just so amped. 651 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,160 You know, like I'm not trying to bag on dogs, but they've seen a 652 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,080 dog probably, but they might not have seen these other amazing 653 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,880 animals. And so that's really fun. 654 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,160 So to be able to kind of do that for kids with Spire because I do 655 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,280 a lot of in person events too. It's so fun. 656 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,640 I mean, they're just, you know, mouth open, enamoured, you know, 657 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,760 and you have you have to get kids passionate about the things 658 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,320 you want them to care for. And I want kids to care for 659 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,080 their natural world and for them to start to care about this 660 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,160 world, they have to fall in love with it. 661 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:29,720 And so I try to showcase the animals and nature component 662 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,680 hard on blah, blah, blah. We look what? 663 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,720 Look what's out here. Look what we live in. 664 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,760 Look how amazing this is. Isn't don't you love this? 665 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,880 And they're like, yeah, because they will protect what they 666 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,640 love. That's so. 667 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,080 Much because we're in, we're in bad shape right now, our 668 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,960 society, I think. So tough out there. 669 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,200 Yeah, it is really tough. So with some mental health 670 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,120 aspect of everything you do because you do a lot. 671 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,960 I really, it's one of the things I know I probably mentioned to 672 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:05,120 you the last time we spoke was that this year especially, I 673 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,640 have really been trying to bring in a component to the show for 674 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,120 the pet parents and realizing that my audience, the people 675 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,560 that are listening to this right now, generally speaking, are 676 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,800 going to be people who we call 2 point O pet parents. 677 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,760 These are the people who they're not just doing, you know, 678 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,080 whatever is at Petco, PetSmart doing the basic training class 679 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,080 like and calling it a day. These are the people who are 680 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,200 like, who are questioning the status quo, who are questioning 681 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,000 why we're giving so many vaccines. 682 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,280 They're questioning. My dream clients. 683 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,320 Yes, like they're, they're questioning things and they're 684 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,400 looking for more natural alternatives to raising their 685 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,080 animals. And what I find is that when we 686 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,400 get on this path, whether it's I saw this in rescue a lot, the 687 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560 burnout that's in rescue, there's certainly burnout in the 688 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,520 veterinary industry. I'm sure you've seen quite a bit 689 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,880 of, of burnout. But people who are this 690 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680 passionate about their animals, again, something that you give 691 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,000 to that you're, you are getting back, but you're not getting 692 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,160 back in the same way that you would with like a job or you 693 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,520 know what I mean? Like you're not getting the same 694 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,880 type of return on your investment. 695 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,560 You do get that burnout. We're not caring for ourselves 696 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:28,880 the way we should. And that affects our pets when 697 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,400 we're burnt out, when we're stressed out, when we're 698 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,120 anxious, when we're sick physically, when we're sick 699 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,600 mentally, it affects our pets. And so it is something that I 700 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,880 have been very aware of and trying to bring into this 701 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,280 podcast this year especially. So I know I went through some 702 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,800 things that I shared with, I shared with like my core group 703 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,000 of audience earlier this year that I, I went through some 704 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,880 therapy. I needed therapy to, to help me 705 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,120 to make sure that my head was on straight, that I went through 706 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,200 something very traumatic. And I wanted to make sure that I 707 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,800 was processing the way I was supposed to be processing that I 708 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,720 was. Healing and not remaining 709 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,440 stagnant in that like traumatic energy. 710 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,480 And so I have become more passionate about therapy and 711 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,240 using it appropriately. At the same time, I think we 712 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:31,240 talked about in our society right now, I do feel like people 713 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,600 are identifying as their diagnosis. 714 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,920 Diagnosis. How do you say that word? 715 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,320 I don't know what I'm saying. Like that is really, that's 716 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,360 troubling to me. Like that's unhealthy to me. 717 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,880 So using therapy in an appropriate way. 718 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,160 And so I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how 719 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,160 interviewing these mental health experts has changed your life. 720 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,560 Well, I'll start by a disclaimer saying I'm not a doctor. 721 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,680 Not I'm not, I'm a lay person, but I do have this. 722 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,320 I mean, I I've, I've sat down with doctors multiple times a 723 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,360 week, sometimes every day for eight years. 724 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,560 This past weekend I filmed a 15 hour course all on trauma for 15 725 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,760 hours straight over 2 days. So two, fifth, whatever, 7 or 8 726 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,360 hours a day trauma, OK with with one of the world's, I mean, when 727 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,240 after the trauma course, he was flying to Oxford to go teach. 728 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,680 He's the trauma guy. OK, I want to, so I want to talk 729 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,360 about a little trauma stuff because everyone's going through 730 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,880 that. But let's, let's also talk about 731 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,160 the burnout. Burnout. 732 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,400 We talked a lot at Med circle, especially during COVID because 733 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,520 people were burned out. And I want people to 1st go 734 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,360 through a process of determining whether or not they're burned 735 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,080 out or whether or not they're just stressed. 736 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600 They're they're going through a rough patch. 737 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600 It's been a rough week. Maybe it's been a rough month. 738 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,840 Sometimes people refer that to a brownout. 739 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,440 It's like, we'll call it one step below a burnout. 740 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,640 Not to minimize anyone's experience, but if you're really 741 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,960 in a burnout where like you mentioned Jessica there, you're 742 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,080 physically sick, you aren't really being productive. 743 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,600 You your brain cannot function. And even after a 2 day weekend 744 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,400 get away at the spa where you didn't look at your phone and 745 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,680 you didn't touch you, you're not any better on Monday. 746 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,960 You know, that's burnout. The doctors I've talked to 747 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:33,520 unfortunately, and I normally try to be very hopeful, but this 748 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,080 is I also honesty before everything the doctors I've 749 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,400 talked to unfortunately goes if you are burnt out, the really 750 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,040 the only way to get out of that burnout is to take an extended 751 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,920 period of time. This could be ideally months. 752 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,480 If you could take months away and most people are going to 753 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,800 hear that and be like nice life. You can't just quit my job and 754 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,960 not take care of my kids and like blah, blah, blah. 755 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,640 But I'm just telling you what the ideal scenario would be. 756 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:08,160 You need 3456 months to let your body recalibrate because of this 757 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,640 is not a massage is not going to fix burnout. 758 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,600 OK. If you don't have that, which 759 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:20,960 most people don't, it is critical that you and I hate 760 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,680 everyone. I just hate stuff we've already 761 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,920 heard. But sometimes the reason you 762 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,800 keep hearing it is because it's the right answer. 763 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,160 It's the truth. You must create a schedule that 764 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,920 prioritizes your your self-care, self-care #1 and self-care. 765 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,680 Some people define it differently. 766 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,600 My definition of self-care is anything that's good for me. 767 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,960 So I love sitting on the couch and binging Netflix. 768 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,160 Love it. I love to rot on the couch. 769 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,600 That feels good for me. And then I and then the next day 770 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,120 I'm like, yeah, I did that. And I can go do something else 771 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:01,360 that's good for me. I and I like doing it. self-care 772 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,120 for me is also exercise, but I don't like exercise. 773 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,280 But I go do it because it's good for me. 774 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,960 It's part of myself. I'm better when I exercise. 775 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,000 I spoke to a doctor this weekend, the trauma Dr. and he 776 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120 goes I don't agree with your definition of self-care. 777 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,200 I think self-care is good for you and it feeds your soul. 778 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,600 So for you Kyle, exercise doesn't feed your soul. 779 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,120 I go definitely not. It is just a thing on the To Do 780 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,000 List and he goes, I wouldn't put that as self-care for you. 781 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,920 I go, OK, so whatever you're there. 782 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,000 I'm just giving options for people to consider. 783 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:39,440 But you, you, you, you have to do it and you have to do it for 784 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,320 your own life, for your own life. 785 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,960 If the burnout manifested as markings all over your face, you 786 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:53,240 would address it immediately. If a big Marks and lesions came 787 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,720 on your face because of burnout and you would address it 788 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,280 immediately. And that is happening internally 789 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,000 and both mentally and physically. 790 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,120 So treat this as though you have lesions on your face. 791 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,760 That's how severe this is. And start to prioritize that 792 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,920 self-care. And that might mean your 793 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,920 production at work goes down and that might mean your spouse has 794 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,280 to jump in more to help out with the kids. 795 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,320 And that might mean that you don't spend every single minute 796 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,400 with your kids. I mean, this is what I'm talking 797 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,760 about. These are drastic changes, but 798 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,280 you do it for you do it for yourself. 799 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,320 For those going through burnout. It's tough. 800 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,840 It's really, really tough. And I'm sorry you're going 801 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,240 through that. You're not alone. 802 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,280 Going through it and finding a community out is also very 803 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,920 helpful. And finally, the trauma. 804 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,440 You know what I learned this weekend after doing the trauma 805 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,200 course? And it's always interesting. 806 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,920 I've been talking about trauma for eight years with 807 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,880 professionals, and I still sit there and learn something. 808 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,280 Fun thing, he said his name is Doctor Frank Anderson. 809 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,880 He said the clue is in the behavior. 810 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:05,680 And what he meant by that was if you're binge drinking or eating 811 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,560 fast food all the time or using drugs or exercising all the time 812 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:17,080 or working 60 hours or 70 hours a week, those are all clues into 813 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,760 your unresolved trauma. So when you start, because a lot 814 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,320 of people think, Oh, my trauma, I don't, I'm not impacted by my 815 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,160 trauma. Now that happened so long ago. 816 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960 I'm not impacted by my trauma. I go, yeah, but look how much 817 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,520 you're drinking or look at look at, look at how short tempered 818 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,280 you are with your children. Look at how your dog that you 819 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,480 bought and you love and you're like love, but you are like 820 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,640 irritated by that dog, the clues in those behaviors. 821 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,440 And so getting curious, you don't want to be judgmental 822 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,160 because then that just makes the trauma worse. 823 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,520 But if you can get curious, and I wonder why, I wonder why I'm 824 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,720 having a bottle of wine every night because that is more than 825 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,040 maybe I should be drinking. And it's every night. 826 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,560 And you start to think about that curious curiously, not 827 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,520 judgmental curious. I wonder why I do that. 828 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,680 I'm, I'm protecting myself from something I'm not, I'm, I'm 829 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,400 there is a protective factor. I'm not just doing it because I 830 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,000 like to drink, you know, So that was one to be the clues on the 831 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,320 behavior. So I think when people start to 832 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,880 think about that, it curiously, not judgmentally, I think it's 833 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,240 very nice. The three steps to healing that 834 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,880 trauma is 1 safely. And doing it with a therapist 835 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,760 for a lot of people is, is really a nice way to do it, but 836 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,600 it's not the only way. But expressing that traumatic 837 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,280 event and there's a difference between reliving it and we're 838 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,920 not suggesting that and visiting it, which is what we want to do. 839 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,920 We want to visit the trauma. And maybe you can only visit it 840 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,400 for a few seconds to begin with, but eventually get to a point 841 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,800 where you can, you could write out what happened, how you were 842 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,520 feeling, what the weather was like, what what, who was there 843 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520 for you, who wasn't there for you, why you were angry about 844 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,240 it, why, whatever, whatever it is, all the details and just 845 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:00,760 acknowledge it just literally pointed out this is what 846 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,120 happened. This is what happened, this is 847 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:03,920 what happened, and here's all the details for it. 848 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,640 That's step number one. And step number 2 is to then 849 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:15,240 find love and connection. He said something about how the 850 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:20,720 traumatic event isn't necessarily the biggest culprit 851 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,600 of whether or not you will have symptoms related to the 852 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,120 traumatic event. Where, where, where, whether or 853 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,000 not you would develop PTSD or not. 854 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,440 More comes from what happened after the traumatic. 855 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,880 If you were abused as a child and no one came to save you or 856 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,160 help you or tell you you're safe, that trauma is going to 857 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,000 stick. If you're abused as a child, but 858 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,760 then your parents came to you and surrounded you with love and 859 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,840 connection and support, trauma still sucks. 860 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,400 You're still going to have stuff from the trauma. 861 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,920 Not dismissing that, but that loving connection heals so much 862 00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,400 of it right afterwards. So now going back to these 863 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,560 steps, if I can look, if I can acknowledge what happened, 864 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,800 express what happened. I haven't, I haven't told him 865 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,760 Jessica, I go, what if I expressed it to my AI because I 866 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,200 don't have a therapist? He goes do it, express it to 867 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,840 something I said to your dog. I tell my bird everything you 868 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,080 know, tell tell your bird. And then you find that love and 869 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,560 connection you can. That's hard for people to do 870 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,920 because people feel like they don't deserve love and 871 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,800 connection. They feel like they're a burden 872 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,440 for wanting love and connection. They feel like they have to give 873 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,760 love. They have to give of themselves. 874 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,040 I want you to be a taker. I want you to be a selfish taker 875 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,760 in Step 2, OK? And then in the step three, 876 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,800 recognize those moments and they will likely be small moments in 877 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,440 the beginning, but recognize those small moments of healing 878 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,480 where the door slammed and you, your heart wasn't. 879 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,840 You didn't panic and start heart racing. 880 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,600 If you were in a car accident. You get into the car and you 881 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,800 were like, oh, I drove three blocks without even panicking. 882 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,400 That's pretty good because normally I panic the whole time. 883 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,720 Those small little moments of healing, those three steps, 884 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:15,440 simple to say, very complicated to actually do, and not easy to 885 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,560 do, OK. But there is a path forward 886 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,280 through trauma. There really is. 887 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,800 Healing is possible. I watch and hear and see people 888 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,080 heal all the time, every day. We have that. 889 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,640 We have millions of people who watch a Met circle, millions all 890 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:35,160 over the world and they have unimaginable trauma and they do 891 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,360 the work, quote UN quote, and they experience healing. 892 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,960 Now does healing look like you're 100% back to your normal 893 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,040 self, whatever that was? Does healing look like I never 894 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,680 think about that traumatic thing that happened to me anymore. 895 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:55,560 No, but you get your life back. You see a future, you start to 896 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,480 get excited about the future. Those things, those things are 897 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:00,280 good. It's hard. 898 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,080 I think if you're excited about the future, it's that doesn't 899 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,640 jive well with symptoms of trauma. 900 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,640 I think that's one another little win. 901 00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,280 If you're like, man, I'm excited about next year, good for you. 902 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,720 You're healing. You're. 903 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,120 Healing, Yeah, yeah. I think a couple of things that 904 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:22,960 I've been learning is that healing is a journey and not a 905 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,680 destination. Absolutely. 906 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:32,080 Also that it is, it's OK to, and we should continue to live our 907 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,880 lives and move forward while we're still healing. 908 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:40,880 Like it's not something that I see a lot of people who are 909 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,040 like, I have to heal. I have these things I need to 910 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,920 heal from. And then they like stagnate in 911 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,520 their life because they want to be healed, especially when it 912 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,320 comes to like relationships. And I think also to there are 913 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,880 some relational traumas that can only be healed in a healthy 914 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,440 relationship. And you've got to get there to, 915 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,040 for that to happen. And there's, it's not black and 916 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,200 white is very complex, but to tell people that you know, to 917 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:09,960 keep living your life, it's something. 918 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,200 The best you can and that will look different day-to-day. 919 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,720 You know, I was diagnosed with depression when I was nine years 920 00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:19,480 old. And if I go off my meds, you 921 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,480 know, you will find me in the dark room in the bed, OK, I'm 922 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,600 not coming out. It is disastrous. 923 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,000 And that's what I can manage to do on those days, you know, and 924 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,640 then other days, get out and take a walk and it looks good. 925 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,040 I I don't want to pry, Jessica. So don't obviously, you know, 926 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,560 don't there's no obligation, of course. 927 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,520 But when you're you went through something recently that was 928 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,320 traumatic, was it because most, this is most people, most emails 929 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,640 I get. Was it relationship oriented? 930 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,920 The trauma? Yeah. 931 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,680 So unsolicited, Dr. Romney, who is my go to on narcissism, 932 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,560 narcissistic abuse specifically. She is the queen. 933 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,720 Whatever she says is what I believe. 934 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:05,360 OK, when it comes to this topic. And I have probably banked, I 935 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,320 mean, it's got to be 500 hours of talking to her about 936 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,280 narcissism over the over the year, maybe more than that, 937 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,000 maybe more. And I've read all our books and 938 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,520 blah, blah. OK, so one thing is that healing 939 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,120 part, she always tells the people that she works with, if 940 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,800 you are out of an of a narcissistic relationship, 941 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,080 please with every ability you have, please stay single for a 942 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,000 year, at least one full year. And she goes, there's so many 943 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,960 reasons and there's no perfect time. 944 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,840 It's not like after a year, but if you go through a year, you go 945 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,600 through all of the anniversaries, all of the 946 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,320 holidays, all of the seasons, changing all of the things that 947 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,560 you went through probably on the relationship. 948 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,760 And it gives you 1 full little cycle of like, all right, I've 949 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,120 done Christmas, I've done New Year's, I've done birthday, I've 950 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,880 done our anniversary, I've done them all. 951 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,880 I got one under my belt, single, just focused on me, you know, 952 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,640 and the really fun play. The real part I think of getting 953 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,520 out of a narcissistic relationship is that you get to 954 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:13,400 get reintroduced to you. You get to be like, wait, I love 955 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,440 Italian food and go eat Italian because my freaking narcissistic 956 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,160 boyfriend always took us to get sushi. 957 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,600 And then you're like, Oh my God, like I can just stay up late 958 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,680 tonight. Like I'm going to, I love 959 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,640 staying up late on a Tuesday. This is fun. 960 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,880 You get to meet yourself again. And it's a lot of and it's 961 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,680 mostly women because more men are narcissists than women in my 962 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,560 opinion. And what some research indicates 963 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,200 these, these women get excited because they're like, this is 964 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:42,640 fun. This is fun. 965 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,240 I'm out of that and I'm rediscovering myself. 966 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,840 So I hope that people who are going through that journey, and 967 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,840 if you're going through that journey, Jessica, that you start 968 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:58,040 to have some of those moments. They are fun when you get them, 969 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,440 when you realize you're like, I can do whatever I want now. 970 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,280 I know. And you realize you like you 971 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,560 like stuff. You're like, I like that. 972 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,160 And you're and you're like, oh, I don't like doing that. 973 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,320 It's like when I dated, I don't date anymore. 974 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:14,800 I'm chronically single by choice. 975 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,680 And I but when I dated, people would people would go, do you 976 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,080 like to hike? And I would always be like, 977 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,840 yeah, which is a lie. I hate that I don't want to go 978 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,080 on a hike. But I would say yes, because I 979 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,840 like wanted to be liked, you know? 980 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,000 And then when you're you're like, I don't like hiking. 981 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:35,880 I get to not like hiking, you know? 982 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:42,200 Yeah, no, it is very interesting to to go from accommodating 983 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,200 everything to I don't, I don't have to accommodate anything. 984 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:53,280 It is very interesting for sure. So, OK, with all of this that 985 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,800 you've been doing with Med circle, we talked a little bit 986 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,760 at the beginning or mentioned, you know, that the human animal 987 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,480 bond. And I think I'm you certainly 988 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,880 don't have to, you know, talk too deeply about losing your 989 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,320 dog. But I'm sure there were a lot of 990 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,800 tactics that you found from Med circle that that were helpful 991 00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,600 going through that sort of grief. 992 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,080 And you know, for me, when I with what I do, because I do 993 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,040 work one-on-one with clients to help, I generally have them 994 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,880 coming to me because their their pet is sick in some form or 995 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,520 fashion. And I see so much overlap in a 996 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,760 disease that a dog or a cat has and physical ailments or 997 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,160 diseases that the pet parent has had. 998 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,360 There's so much in this human animal bond that I think we 999 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,480 don't really give credit to on a day-to-day basis. 1000 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:53,880 And this is just one way I see it, but I also see it in how 1001 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,400 they can help heal us. So I'm curious, you know, in 1002 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,360 this journey you've had with this really incredible deep dive 1003 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,880 into the mental health world, how you see animals fitting into 1004 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,720 that? In so many ways I'm trying to 1005 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,280 pick some of my best learnings from Med circle. 1006 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,280 Yeah. The first animal I ever saw die 1007 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,520 was a 67 year old dolphin, Amiko, named Amiko. 1008 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,120 And I walked into work and he was at the bottom of the pool 1009 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,160 dead. And my boss at the time, it was 1010 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,360 a very authoritative, authoritarian boss. 1011 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,880 He he goes get in the pool and dive down there and bring that 1012 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,840 dolphin back up and put it in the stretcher. 1013 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,880 And me and another trainer did it was terrible. 1014 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,400 It was the first dolphin I ever had a relationship with. 1015 00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,360 And he was, he was a blind dolphin. 1016 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,000 So all of his cues were tactile. You would just basically draw on 1017 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,400 his body. And that was the cue for 1018 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,720 whatever we were trying to do. And I call and I went home and I 1019 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,080 called my dad and I said, I don't know if I want to do this. 1020 00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,360 Like I don't know if it's worth it. 1021 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,120 Like I love it and it's my dream job, but I don't know if the 1022 00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,880 sacrifices, you look at all the other animals and you're like, 1023 00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,480 OK, it's worth it. And animals die. 1024 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,200 Animals die. I have to remind myself that 1025 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,760 happens. I die. 1026 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,600 Back then, I was in my 20s. I had no experience coping with 1027 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,560 grief. I I, I had experience coping 1028 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,920 with grief. I had no knowledge of how the 1029 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,600 best way to cope with grief. My mom died when I was 16. 1030 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,160 I had grieved a lot in my life, but I never knew how to grieve. 1031 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880 And there is better ways to do it. 1032 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,720 When my dog died this year, I was, it's kind of like I was 1033 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,520 ready. I was like, OK, dogs died. 1034 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,280 I'm ready to go with my grief. Here we go. 1035 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,200 And the number. Well, the first thing is I'm a 1036 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,000 very, very big proponent of somatic experiencing. 1037 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,320 And they have somatic experiencing therapy, which is 1038 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,880 great for anyone who's dealt with trauma to look into and 1039 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,120 essentially somatic. I love this example. 1040 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,680 This is how it was taught to me. And as animal lovers, you guys 1041 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,080 will get this. If you look at animals in the 1042 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,360 wild, they almost never develop what we would consider post 1043 00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,880 traumatic stress disorder. They almost never developed 1044 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,680 those set of symptoms. And they go through the most 1045 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,200 traumatic things everyday. Like a rabbit literally has to 1046 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,760 run for its life on a daily basis so it doesn't get eaten 1047 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,800 alive. And you will watch a coyote 1048 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,960 chase a rabbit and the rabbit will evade capture. 1049 00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,960 And then the next thing it does once it realizes, OK, I, I 1050 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,440 evaded the coyote. It shakes. 1051 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,880 It moves its whole body, shakes it out, it moves its leg. 1052 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,440 And sometimes you'll see dogs after they get out of a kennel 1053 00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,880 shake or after they get bathed, they shake. 1054 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:39,600 And some people are like, yeah, it's because they've been cooped 1055 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,520 up and they're, they want to shake out the water. 1056 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,480 They want to shake out that. And maybe that's right. 1057 00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,640 But what I believe is that they're shaking out any trauma 1058 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,040 or shaking out their trauma. And they do that so that they 1059 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,720 can shake out their trauma and go back to eating grass. 1060 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,880 And they do so in a matter of seconds, the rabbit shakes and 1061 00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,840 then eats grass like nothing had ever happened. 1062 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:03,840 We don't do that as people when something traumatizes us. 1063 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,120 I get into a car accident, I'm like, OK, I got to call 911. 1064 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:09,760 All right? I got to go see if the other 1065 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,000 person's OK. All right, now I have to talk to 1066 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,520 the police. Now I have to call my boyfriend 1067 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,480 to come pick me up. Now I have to do a report. 1068 01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,200 And you go hours and hours keeping it together, keeping it 1069 01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,320 focused, keeping your. Everything right, Because you 1070 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,120 have to, OK. And then you get home and you're 1071 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,200 just like, OK, all right, I think maybe I'll have a glass of 1072 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,680 wine now. And you've never just let it 1073 01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,560 out. Never gone. 1074 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,280 I think if we let it out more, we would have less trauma. 1075 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,600 Bad things are going to happen to us. 1076 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,760 But if we let it out after they happen to us, I think we'll 1077 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,720 experience less trauma. And so when my dog died, OK, 1078 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,880 which was the worst, I cried hard. 1079 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,200 And I didn't hold back well. And people were around, my 1080 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,640 friends were over, my family was over. 1081 01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,560 And I was letting it RIP. And I was letting it RIP because 1082 01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,000 I was mourning and I was having this intense feeling of grief. 1083 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,520 And I knew I got to get this out. 1084 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:05,800 This is my chance. This is like the window of 1085 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,800 opportunity. And when everyone left, I cried 1086 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,920 even harder. I cried so hard that I threw up. 1087 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,440 I've never thrown up from crying. 1088 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,240 I cried harder when my dog died than when my mom died. 1089 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,520 Not because I mourned them any more or less than the other, but 1090 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,640 because I knew that all these emotions and feelings I were 1091 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,800 having to get them out was the best thing to do, not to 1092 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,760 swallow. The next day I woke up and 1093 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,040 immediately felt that flood of emotions coming in and I made a 1094 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,240 choice to push them down because I was done crying. 1095 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,000 I was over it. I didn't want to cry anymore. 1096 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,520 I've been crying all night. Yeah. 1097 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,600 So I pushed them down and I talked to the doctors and I go, 1098 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:47,040 look, I did this. I pushed them down. 1099 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,360 What do you think? And they go, look, you get to 1100 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,080 grieve however you want. If you want to push them down, 1101 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,720 push them down. And you know what you did? 1102 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,600 You realized you were pushing them down. 1103 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,840 You were mindful of that. Most of us are pushing it down. 1104 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,480 We don't even know we're doing it. 1105 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,400 Right. And so there are so many ways to 1106 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,360 heal from, from trauma. And I know we're talking about 1107 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,400 trauma again, I can't even remember your original question, 1108 01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,880 but the, oh, the human bond with the animals. 1109 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,880 But I think if you, you know, shake it out when you're, when 1110 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,840 something traumatic happens, there's a lot of benefits to 1111 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,840 that. And it goes to, to bring it back 1112 01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,600 to your question with the, the bond with humans, animals have a 1113 01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,720 soul. Everyone listening to this would 1114 01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,760 agree with that because they're listening to the Pet Parenting 1115 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,400 Reset podcast. I don't know if everybody on the 1116 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,480 planet believes that, but this group right here believes that 1117 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:45,800 animals have a soul, human have a soul, and those souls of those 1118 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,440 combine. And I don't even think we know 1119 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,520 what the implications of our what that really means, but I 1120 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,800 know it for a fact. I believe it's so much to be 1121 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:02,920 true because I have felt my soul intertwined with that of a whale 1122 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,840 and with that of a dolphin and with that of many birds and of 1123 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:11,520 that with my dog. And it's an intertwining it 1124 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,320 different. It's different than than, oh, 1125 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,160 this is my pet and you said, and I give you a treat and you like 1126 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,480 me because of it. And it's not that this is this 1127 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:21,920 is deep. It's spiritual. 1128 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,000 I'm not a religious person or even a spiritual person, but 1129 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,480 that is that to me is spiritual on that people have with 1130 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,000 animals. That is a spiritual thing 1131 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,120 happening, I think. Is that too woo woo? 1132 01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,360 No, you have no idea how woo woo this podcast gets. 1133 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,960 I like a little woo woo every now and then. 1134 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,480 I yeah, I do too. I have, I love my animal 1135 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,400 communicator friends and my yeah, it's it's it's fun. 1136 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:47,960 I have some fun. I. 1137 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:53,320 Believe in animal psychics. And then I met this horse 1138 01:03:53,320 --> 01:04:00,280 psychic and I was like, you, you are blowing my mind. 1139 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,920 Like she blew my mind. And I was like, and maybe that 1140 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:07,440 goes back to this soul thing. Like maybe some people are just 1141 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:11,760 more open to connect soulfully with an animal and they have 1142 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,680 that. I don't have that. 1143 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,960 I'm not a psychic and I'm a behaviorist at heart. 1144 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,680 I like behavior. So anyway. 1145 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:23,040 Yeah, well, my very good friend Karen Dindy Smith would tell you 1146 01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,480 that if you want to talk to animals, you have the ability, 1147 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,440 you just have to practice. Yeah. 1148 01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,760 Well, yeah, I think we did get a little deep, which is great. 1149 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,480 I love it. I think it's probably a good 1150 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,880 place to end. I want to thank you for your 1151 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,200 time and for your knowledge and for coming to talk to all of us 1152 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,240 and to help us understand a little bit better some things we 1153 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,480 may not have thought about, especially when it comes to some 1154 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:56,640 of the wild and exotic animals that are in captivity for 1155 01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,640 various reasons. And I very much appreciate all 1156 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,640 of the content that you're helping to put out for Med 1157 01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,680 Circle because especially now with today, like we need, we 1158 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:13,080 need help. We need to, I think, realize 1159 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,160 that we need help and seek out the best places that what 1160 01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:20,840 resonates for us and places to confide in, to learn, to grow, 1161 01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,720 to care for ourselves better. And when we do that, we can care 1162 01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,200 for our pets better, in my opinion. 1163 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,920 So I just want to say thank you. And if you have any, like final 1164 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,440 parting words, if there's anything you want to tell people 1165 01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,520 listening. Well, thank you for letting me 1166 01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,120 come on. It's such an honor to share. 1167 01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,840 Share the space with you, as they say. 1168 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:47,080 I just, if anyone's listening to this right now, please, please 1169 01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,320 practice putting yourself 1st. And I and I, and I know that can 1170 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,280 sound kind of silly because like, no, no, we need to be 1171 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:58,400 giving and we need to share. And yeah, I know, OK, We all 1172 01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,280 know that. And in mental health, people are 1173 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,040 not putting themselves first. They're not. 1174 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:05,880 They jump from one thing to another. 1175 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,280 It's the narcissistic abusive relationship. 1176 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,000 And then they jump into some toxic thing at work. 1177 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,560 And then they and they're just giving and giving and giving and 1178 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:19,360 hoping someone gives back. And I want you to just be all 1179 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,360 about you. Be about you. 1180 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,680 And I went to therapy when I was nine years old, and I started 1181 01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,000 Med circle when I was 31, I think. 1182 01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,200 And I never learned what cognitive behavioral therapy was 1183 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,600 until I was started on that circle. 1184 01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:40,160 And I had been in therapy since I was 9 and doing CBT cognitive 1185 01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,640 behavioral therapy for decades and didn't even know I was doing 1186 01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:47,400 it. And so I implore people to seek 1187 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:52,520 out a credentialed mental health education because it is the game 1188 01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,720 changer. It is the game changer. 1189 01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,280 You want to know why you do these certain things. 1190 01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,720 You want to know why you end up in these certain places. 1191 01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,640 You want to know why you feel this way, why you do this thing, 1192 01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,360 why you have that thought. There are there's insight, 1193 01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,680 there's people who spend all their careers looking at this. 1194 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,960 And I think Med circles the best place to do that, obviously. 1195 01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,800 But wherever you do it, do it because when you have that 1196 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:22,000 mental health psychology education, every part of your 1197 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,200 life gets better. And I can, I'm speaking from 1198 01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,360 personal experience. Every part of your life gets 1199 01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,480 better. I learned how to be empathic 1200 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,720 through Med circle. I learned how to teach my nephew 1201 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,120 resilience through MET circle. I learned how to be 1202 01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,200 narcissistic, narcissist resistant. 1203 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,360 There is a very low chance I would ever end up with a 1204 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,040 narcissist because I I know the handbook. 1205 01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,880 I read it back and forth. Especially if you're not dating 1206 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:49,680 Kyle, you're. Not dating, but you know, 1207 01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,720 narcissist, they can be a boss, they can be a mother-in-law, 1208 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:54,480 they can be a lot of other people. 1209 01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:55,720 They can be your own frequent parent. 1210 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,200 And then and then if they are your parent, how do you deal 1211 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,840 with that? Because some people won't cut 1212 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,160 them out of their lives. How do you deal with it? 1213 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,720 I know how to deal with it. So it sets you up for success to 1214 01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,640 have that education. And so if that inspires you, 1215 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,600 check out the YouTube channel. It's free on Med Circle. 1216 01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,279 Or if you're ready to do the deep dive, you know we have a 1217 01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:19,600 great membership filled with a community of like minded people 1218 01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,800 at medcircle.com. And that link will be in the 1219 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,800 show notes as well, guys. And thank you again, Kyle, for 1220 01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:28,000 being here. It was such a pleasure. 1221 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,560 I had such a great time talking with you. 1222 01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,760 And with that, everyone listening. 1223 01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,560 I appreciate you. Thank you so much for being 1224 01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,120 here. Please give your pets some extra 1225 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,240 love from me and Kyle this week. Yeah. 1226 01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:39,040 And I will talk to you next week. 1227 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:27,280 I'm not going to bring a sponsor on this podcast who has some 1228 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:29,320 fancy product that you don't need. 1229 01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:35,800 I decided to partner with Legacy Biome because I believe in their 1230 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:40,920 product, in the quality of the FMT that they are providing. 1231 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:46,120 So when we talk about rebuilding the gut microbiome, we can do 1232 01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:51,440 that in a lot of different ways. And I talk a lot about the ways 1233 01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:54,600 we can do that, including raw goat's milk and fermented fish 1234 01:10:54,600 --> 01:11:00,920 stock, fermented vegetables, specific types of probiotics 1235 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:05,160 sources, but one of those specific types is going to be 1236 01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:09,000 FNT fecal microbiota transplant therapy. 1237 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:15,040 And Legacy Biome is bringing us the cleanest, most efficient, 1238 01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:21,120 most effective in their enteric coated capsules, which make it 1239 01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:29,520 easy for us to give FMT therapy to our dogs and now cats at home 1240 01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:34,760 in the convenience of our home. So yes, I want you to take a 1241 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,920 moment to consider if Legacy Biome could be something that 1242 01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,680 your dog or cat needs. I know I have used it in the 1243 01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,400 past with my animals, most recently with Kimberly. 1244 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:51,040 We have had a very stressful year, and in that stressful year 1245 01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,480 she has eaten some food that I may not have wanted her to eat 1246 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,320 and we've had a few challenges along the way. 1247 01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:01,360 Not that she ate anything horrible, don't get me wrong, 1248 01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,240 but she has eaten some cat food that maybe I didn't want her to 1249 01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,120 eat. She has maybe had some treats 1250 01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:12,120 that I didn't want her to have. And we've had some issues, I 1251 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:16,200 think mostly with stress. But again, this gut brain access 1252 01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:22,080 and stress is a huge factor in our gut health as well and in 1253 01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:28,600 our mental health. So I have used Legacy Biome FMT 1254 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:33,960 with Kimberly very recently and I'm very happy to have Legacy 1255 01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:36,160 Biome sponsoring this podcast this week. 1256 01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:41,280 So when we talk about our mental health and our pets mental 1257 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,720 health, we can't help but talk about that gut brain access and 1258 01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,680 how it all works together. So yes, we're talking about 1259 01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,320 behavior and we're talking about training and all the things, but 1260 01:12:52,320 --> 01:13:00,560 we cannot, cannot overlook the role of the gut in all of this. 1261 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,480 So when I was training dogs, this was the first thing I 1262 01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:06,960 talked to people about. And I, I have to say it was very 1263 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,280 difficult for a lot of people to hear. 1264 01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,600 They just wanted a quick, tell me how to train my dog fixed. 1265 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:16,800 And that doesn't help if your dog doesn't feel good. 1266 01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,240 So if you think Legacy Biome might be for you or not, not 1267 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:27,280 you, but your pet, your dog or your cat, go to legacybiome.com. 1268 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:32,000 Use the code TPPR 10 to get 10% off of your first order. 1269 01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,960 I am very excited to see you know the changes. 1270 01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,520 Tell me about the changes that you see that you notice in your 1271 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,640 dog or your cat. And if you have questions about 1272 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:47,080 how to measure all of that to find out if your pet even needs 1273 01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,760 it, please reach out to me. I'm here for you, especially on 1274 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:52,880 Instagram direct message or through the website 1275 01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,640 thepetparentingreset.com. You can meet message me there as 1276 01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,760 well. With that, I want to say thank 1277 01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:04,600 you to Legacy Biome for sponsoring this podcast and for 1278 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:08,880 giving us an incredible FNT therapy for our pets. 1279 01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,440 Go check out Legacy Biome at legacybiome.com and use the code 1280 01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:15,680 TPPR 10 to get 10% off of your first order.