1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Welcome back pet parents. I have the wonderful Miss Amy 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,880 Renz back with us today on the Pet Parenting Reset and I 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,000 initially asked her to come back on because I want to talk about 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,640 the new restorative diets that Goodness Gracious has available 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,840 for you for your dogs right now. I think they are incredible and 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,000 I want her to tell you all about them, but I also don't want to 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:34,480 waste this opportunity because she is so brilliant and has so 8 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:39,360 much knowledge to share with all of you, pet parents and me as 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,920 well. That's one of the perks of doing 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,840 what I do is I get to learn right alongside of you. 11 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:48,360 So I think let's just go ahead and jump in. 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,000 Amy, thank you so much for being back with us today. 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,360 So having me, Jess, this is wonderful. 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,680 So enjoy, you know, every time I hear you speak, I, and I know I 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,360 say this all the time, I'm just always blown away by the 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:09,400 information that you share and how much research you put into 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,520 that information that you share. And before we hit record, you 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,600 were just talking about a couple of the talks that you've given 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,280 recently. And one of the things, and I've 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,040 actually, I didn't tell you this before we started recording, but 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:30,840 I was actually creating like my own little worksheet recently on 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,280 pet food math because there is like there's so much to consider 23 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,640 and trying to simplify it for people. 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,520 And, you know, learning all the, all the things and trying not to 25 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,240 be fooled with the marketing claims. 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,480 One of the biggest things that I see from people is, you know, 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,120 because carbohydrates are not listed on the guaranteed 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,960 analysis. Fortunately, hopefully, I don't 29 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,280 know, I think we're all kind of up in the air on what's going to 30 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,160 happen with pet food regulation at the moment. 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,920 But they're supposed to be changing the labels to where you 32 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:15,240 have to add the carbohydrate percentage. 33 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:22,120 But Even so, people, something so basic to, to, to you or me is 34 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,080 like a dry food diet versus a high moisture diet. 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,600 And looking at the protein and fat percentages, people are 36 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,200 like, oh, well, this dry diet has so much more protein in it. 37 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:39,080 No, really it doesn't, right. So I'd love for you to kind of 38 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,240 explain some of that to people to help them kind of get past 39 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,240 all that marketing and maybe understand a little bit better 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,600 about, you know, comparing labels of foods because it is 41 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,600 apples to oranges a lot of times. 42 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:54,920 It is. It is. 43 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:59,000 Yeah. You know, I think almost 44 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,320 everything that's on a pet food label is really designed to 45 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,320 confuse consumers. And it's unfortunately, you 46 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,760 know, we have some really good consumer advocates out there. 47 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,400 You know, Susan fixed in, you know, as the first person that 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,480 comes to mind when we talk about truth and pet food labels and 49 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,480 all of that. And she's done a remarkable job 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,200 advocating for consumers. But, you know, it's, it's a huge 51 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,880 battle. You know, AFCO, the American 52 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,360 Association of Feed Control Officials that regulates pet 53 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,120 food. It's the, the board, the people 54 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,520 that sit on those, you know, committees and those of those 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:40,800 panels with AFCO are trade association members of big and, 56 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,720 and big pet food sits on those trade associations. 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,080 So, you know, what becomes regulation and what becomes the 58 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,760 narrative around pet food is really what big kibble wants us 59 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,280 to hear. So there's a lot on a pet food 60 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,680 label that we kind of have to cut through in order to get at 61 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,400 the nutrients of what we're feeding our, our dogs and, and 62 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,680 our cats. And you know, one of the one of 63 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,840 the biggest things that I even see on real food packaging that 64 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,760 can be confusing to consumers is something that, you know, you 65 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,079 see a lot of times on raw food, free shy food, a little bit on 66 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:22,160 gently cooked food. And it's that flame about 90% 67 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,200 meat and bone or 90 to 95%, you know, meat and organs and 68 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,640 whether or not that's actually useful information. 69 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,320 And so many people think it is. But here's something right to 70 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,520 think about is that think about it being Taco Tuesday, right? 71 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,840 You going into the grocery store aisle and you're going to go buy 72 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,520 some ground beef and you walk down the meat aisle and you have 73 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,200 a package of 80% lean ground beef and you've got a package of 74 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,400 92% lean ground beef, right? And there's a huge price 75 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:50,560 difference between the two of them. 76 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,880 And it's because the 92% lean ground beef has a lot more 77 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,040 protein in it than fat. And so there's three times more 78 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,360 protein in that 92% lean ground beef than there is fat. 79 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,440 But the 80% lean ground beef is more fat than protein. 80 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,320 So which one of those is in that package of pet food? 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,440 I you really can't tell. So that that information that's 82 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,360 on that label, it's not really helpful. 83 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,280 In fact, it can be confusing to most people, right? 84 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,840 And so the best way to look at pet food is how human 85 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,280 nutritionists look at human food. 86 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:28,040 And that's where the calories come from. 87 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,680 What's on that guaranteed analysis, though is essentially 88 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,320 the weight of those macro nutrients in the package, those 89 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,400 percentages. And we were just talking about 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,240 this right before he went live. But you look at a human food 91 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,440 label and it talks about the numbers on there are grams and 92 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,040 their percentage of daily values. 93 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,080 But the guaranteed analysis is just these random percentages 94 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,280 like one of those actually mean. And so I like to think about my 95 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,880 puppies are barking, but I like to think about it like as a mud 96 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,760 pie, right? And, and if I were going to go 97 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,200 make mud pies and I going to say, OK, I'm going to put a 98 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,200 pound of dirt in here and I'm going to put a pound of worms 99 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,960 and a pound of rocks and a pound of water. 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,640 What's my guaranteed analysis for that? 101 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,120 And it's essentially 252525 percent, 25%, right? 102 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,240 And so that's how we think about a guaranteed analysis. 103 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,800 It's the weight of the components that that go in as a 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,640 percentage of the whole carbohydrates as you mentioned 105 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,000 are listed currently on pet food labels. 106 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,840 They will be, but not for several years. 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,120 And so we have to figure out first what that carbohydrate 108 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,800 number is. And that's essentially by 109 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,040 subtracting, adding up all of those things that we see on that 110 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,680 guaranteed analysis plus ash, which sometimes is there and 111 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,120 sometimes it's not. And if it's not there, you use 112 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,680 6% for dry food and 2% for a wet food, right? 113 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:51,880 Those with good rules and thumbs. 114 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,680 And you add up all that stuff and you subtract it from 100 and 115 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:57,120 that's going to give you a carbohydrate. 116 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,720 And then essentially you've got to know from there that there's 117 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,160 4 calories in every gram of protein and every gram of 118 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,960 carbohydrate and 9 calories in every gram of fat. 119 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:12,360 And so the math of it. And I'll share with you a link 120 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,120 to a, a worksheet CHEAT SHEET that we have so you can publish 121 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,120 it for your listeners. But, but it's essentially, you 122 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,360 know, you multiply your protein times 4, your carbohydrate times 123 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,400 4, and your fat times 9. And you Add all that up, right? 124 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,600 And then you take your protein and divide it by your total, and 125 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,320 that's going to give you a percentage of protein. 126 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,720 And you do the same for the fat and the same for the 127 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,240 carbohydrate. And when you get those numbers, 128 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,200 you know you've done it right because all those numbers add up 129 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,000 to 100 because protein plus fat plus net carbohydrate equals 130 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,000 100% of calories, Fiber, ash, moisture, they might be on a pet 131 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,160 food label, but there's no calories in those things. 132 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:52,120 So the then you say, OK, I've got these numbers right. 133 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,320 So what do I, how do I evaluate that? 134 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,000 How do I know that that's healthy for my dog? 135 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,800 And there's an, you know, it's not right for everybody, but it 136 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,320 is a well respected, well recognized standard, the 137 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,640 ancestral diet standard, right? And, and it basically says that 138 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,040 it, our dog's wild ancestors got 49% of their calories from 139 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,440 protein, 44% of it from fat and 7% from carb. 140 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,640 So protein to fat ratio would be about, you know, there's 141 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,280 probably about 10% more protein calories than fat. 142 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,520 So it'd be like 1.11 to one, right? 143 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,919 And have a quick I to look right up there for you. 144 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,559 So that's like that's the ancestral diet model, right? 145 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,120 We do and we'll talk about this when we get into our restorative 146 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,080 diets. We do more of an epigen, what we 147 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,880 call an epigenetic diet model, which is a little higher on 148 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,840 protein, little bit lower on fat, about the same on carbs to 149 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,320 adjust certain needs that we see modern dogs have today that and 150 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,320 issues that they and challenges that they have to deal with that 151 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,280 their wild ancestors did not. So that that's essentially the 152 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,240 the math of it all. If you're going to try to do, 153 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,760 there's a couple of quick and dirty hacks you can do so 154 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,880 because, you know, otherwise you're going to have to have a 155 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,360 pet food label and your calculator and try to make sense 156 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,600 of all of that as you're standing in the aisle with the 157 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,760 freezer door open, you know, wondering which one do I buy? 158 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,200 So there's a couple of quick and dirty hacks, right? 159 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,640 One of them is to just take it, try to get a quick sense on 160 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,840 whether or not there's more protein than fat in that 161 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,800 package. And the best way to do that, the 162 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,040 fastest way to do that is to say, OK, my protein number on my 163 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,160 guaranteed analysis, I'm going to multiply it by 4. 164 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,280 And my fat number, I'm going to multiply that number by 9 and 165 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,080 then compare those two numbers and whichever 1 is higher, 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,760 that's the that's the macro nutrient that's greater. 167 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,160 So that's one way to determine if there's more protein than fat 168 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,720 in the package. There's another quick and dirty 169 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,000 hack that you could do that says, OK, if I'm going to look 170 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,640 at a, an ancestral diet model, right, 49% protein compared to 171 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,000 44% fat on a caloric basis, what would my guaranteed analysis 172 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,360 ratio look like? And essentially it's 5:00 to 173 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,280 2:00. So you would want to look at a 174 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:16,960 guaranteed analysis and say, OK, my, my protein and my fat are 175 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,320 basically in a five to two ratio or higher, meaning there's more 176 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,240 protein than fat. And you know, that will give you 177 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:29,000 a decent place to start. And then when you, if you from 178 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,080 there, if you say, OK, I want to compare this food to that food, 179 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,960 then that's the best. Then that's when you're doing 180 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,520 your full macronutrient calculation to compare the two. 181 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Yeah, is that? Into your question, a little bit 182 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,040 hard to do without a whiteboard and yeah. 183 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:46,600 Right. No, I'll actually put the that 184 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,640 in the show notes because I think people can kind of maybe 185 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,480 copy and paste that into their notes app on their phone. 186 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,200 And then when they're out, yeah, having having something like 187 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,240 quick that they can just pull up and be like, OK, is this, you 188 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,240 know, how close is this to the to the five two ratio that Amy 189 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,520 was talking about? Right. 190 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,440 Yeah. Because that's all my. 191 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,600 All my graphics I prepared for the day well. 192 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:22,920 You know it. It is sadly, as you were talking 193 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,320 about, you know, these big pet food companies sit on the boards 194 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,840 of these trade associations who sit in committees to create the 195 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,600 rules and regulations that the states adopt for pet food to 196 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:45,480 follow. And so it is very intentional. 197 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,360 I was going to use the word insidious which is probably 198 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,240 accurate, but. Yeah. 199 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:01,880 To, in my opinion, make things as complicated as possible for 200 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,160 the average pet parent to not understand. 201 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,800 So they flip around the bag back over to the front and look at 202 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,320 all the pretty pictures of that beautiful cut of chicken and 203 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,360 these gorgeous bright blue blueberries. 204 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,680 And you know, all of the things that they I actually want you to 205 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,040 be paying attention to, even though that doesn't necessarily 206 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,280 equate to what's actually in that bag of food for your pet. 207 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,200 So being able to be that savvy consumer that says no, let me 208 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,480 turn this bag around because that's where the information is 209 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:45,240 that I actually need to know. And hopefully you know, and 210 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,440 however many years when carbohydrates are listed, it 211 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,400 will make it that much easier for pet parents to because I 212 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:58,800 think, I think most people understand that they don't want 213 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,480 a ton of carbohydrates in their food or their pets food. 214 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,120 They just don't see it. It's not right there in front of 215 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:10,280 their face. So they're blind to it or don't, 216 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,200 you know, don't have the time, the bandwidth to do that kind of 217 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,360 research. So if they're actually faced 218 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,320 with oh, this bag of food has 45% carbohydrate on it. 219 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,160 Right, it will. Be easier for them to say, well 220 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:26,800 that's not the bag of food I want. 221 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:28,760 Right. Yeah. 222 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,680 So currently we have to, we have to do the math to figure that 223 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:39,040 out. And I think, you know, I'm not a 224 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,840 numbers person. I'm not. 225 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,880 My husband is. I will say he counts everything. 226 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,840 He looks at everything is a number. 227 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,080 We will walk into a restaurant and he will say there are 32 228 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,480 people in here and the average check is $15. 229 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,080 And how is this place staying in? 230 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,000 But you know what I mean? Like, he right, he just does 231 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,440 that. He'll he'll count the ceiling 232 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,880 tiles at the doctor's office like that's his thing. 233 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,360 But I'm not. So I would actually have to like 234 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,680 pull out my calculator and do the math and say, OK, they're 235 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:15,640 telling me that protein is at 32 percent, you know, whatever it 236 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,720 is, they're telling me that protein is AT and, and figure it 237 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,640 out and, and I'm sorry, tracked by 100. 238 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,960 And also having to know that ASH is often not listed. 239 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Like that's a thing as well that people don't always know or 240 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,840 understand. So when we are how do, how do 241 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:45,960 you look at a dry food versus say a gently cooked food? 242 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,400 What are some of the things that you're looking at there, other 243 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,360 than the obvious that the gently cooked food is high moisture so 244 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,320 you would want that for your pet anyway when you're looking at 245 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,480 the lay falls? Yeah. 246 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,800 So I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily compare just a 247 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,720 gently cooked to A to a dry food. 248 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,000 I, I think, you know, you know, I did this really interesting 249 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:18,080 research project for myself and, and presented the findings at 250 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,960 the last feed reel Summit that I was at just recently. 251 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:29,080 And I looked at almost 50 really, really high end brands. 252 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,400 And so, you know, I don't care how we compete to Purina Pro 253 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,400 plan or whatever that stuff is, you know, I mean, whenever those 254 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,480 things are, they're just, they're not competitors, right 255 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,760 of our side. And they're not, they're and not 256 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,560 even just competitors, they're they're ultra processed foods, 257 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,480 right? So, but when we look at the 258 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,960 bucket or of real foods, right? So the ones that are healthy for 259 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,640 our companion animals, those would be the ones that you might 260 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,080 find on Susan Thixon's list, right? 261 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,360 Or Doctor Judy Morgan has a list of pet food. 262 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,680 So, you know, these are companies that they've vetted 263 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,840 and these are, these are really great brands. 264 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,360 And if somebody's going to feed a a commercially prepared food 265 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,480 and not do it yourself at home, these, that's the awesome place 266 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,360 to start. Like, you know, find a brand on 267 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,920 one of those two lists. So I looked at brands like 268 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,920 those, right? So about 50 in all. 269 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,760 And I looked at every chicken, Turkey, beef and pork recipe 270 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,120 that was complete and balanced for adult oral life stages and 271 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,160 not a prescription diet, and I did the macronutrient calorie 272 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,000 calculation on it. So there were 243 of those 273 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,400 recipes. And. 274 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Yeah. And and of them only 26 met or 275 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,160 exceeded the 49% K Cal standard for protein. 276 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:56,840 And so, you know, not all that, not all dogs, you know, the 277 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,440 ancestral diet is not the diet for all dogs, right? 278 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,520 Dogs are individuals. But it's a really good place to 279 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,760 start, right? When you're talking about, OK, 280 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,839 what, you know, what is a healthy diet? 281 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,480 And that was really surprising to me, right? 282 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,240 Because my assumption is that all these brands have at least, 283 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,839 you know, an offering in that ancestral range, right, where it 284 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,359 was, you know, a little more than 10% of us did. 285 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,200 So I, I was really pleased when I saw how our diets fared on 286 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,320 that comparison, right? All of our, all, all of our, all 287 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,000 of our complete and balanced foods were above, you know, 49% 288 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,560 on a protein basis, right, for protein basis. 289 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,400 So I think that that's a really great place to, to a really 290 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,480 great way to evaluate food and which one you want to feed, 291 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,880 right, is to start looking at not just comparing gently cooked 292 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,120 to an ultra processed diet, but it's to look at the whole macro 293 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:05,560 nutrient picture of all of them in terms of dry food diets, 294 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,760 right, replacing as little as 20% of a dry food diet with real 295 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,720 Whole Foods, whether or not it's a raw diet or a gently cooked 296 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280 diet is going to have a positive impact on, on health, right? 297 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,880 We, we know that from several studies, the dog risk group out 298 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,200 of Helsinki, right, did a number of studies. 299 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,960 They looked at a mom's early puppies diet, pre and post 300 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,200 Natal, early post Natal diet and then later post Natal diets and 301 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,400 found that all of them when they were not processed diets or had 302 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,720 more real Whole Foods in them, it had a lower instance on 303 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,480 developing atopy in adulthood, right? 304 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,440 So there's epigenetics that work for you right there, right? 305 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:53,040 Mom's diet has an impact on what that, you know, that little body 306 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,640 is going to have problems or health that they might have. 307 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,360 So but water is super important. To get back to your question 308 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,320 about dry food diets compared to fresh diets, you know, water is 309 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,680 the biggest carrier for nutrients in our body. 310 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:11,840 And when dogs have a where they're constantly eating dry 311 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,840 food, they are at risk for chronic low level dehydration. 312 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,080 The food that you and I eat, it's 75% water. 313 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,080 If they're eating a dry food diet, it's 10 to 12% water. 314 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,240 And so those dry food diets can cause a whole bunch of problems 315 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,120 #1 there's problems with digestion because we need a lot. 316 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,080 Dogs need a lot of gastric juice to digest protein. 317 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,520 Protein digestion is predominantly done in the 318 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,560 stomach. And so when you don't have 319 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,120 enough water or enough hydration in your body, you're not 320 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,360 producing enough gastric juice. It lowers Peps in action. 321 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,720 And we don't get a good digestion of proteins. 322 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,800 And that can cause allergies. It can cause, you know, a GERD. 323 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:59,320 It can cause indigestion, all kinds of tooth decay, because 324 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,840 there's dehydration happening there, which sets us up for 325 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,120 metabolic disease. So getting as much real Whole 326 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,600 Foods in the in the diet is really great just for hydration 327 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,520 purposes. And then and then, you know, 328 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,920 there's a whole bunch of more things that we can talk about in 329 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,840 terms of lack of synthetics in a lot of real foods that now that 330 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,680 we're going to see in or buy more bioavailability of 331 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,680 nutrients, more phytonutrients that we're going to get. 332 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,560 You know, our our gut, those microbios, those microbes in our 333 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,920 gut, they digest fiber and bio active compounds, I3C, 334 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520 sulforaphane, campfrault, quercetin, ergotheanine found in 335 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960 plants and mushrooms. And then those bio active 336 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,440 metabolites are then transported throughout our bodies to help us 337 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,000 with many metabolic and immune mediated processes and detox 338 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,880 processes and essentially to epigenetically eliminate cancer 339 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,280 as a life threatening disease. So, you know, studies have shown 340 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,720 that cruciferous vegetables like kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, 341 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,480 broccoli sprouts contain chemical components that can 342 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,920 prevent the dysregulation and overexpression of genes that are 343 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,760 responsible for the uncontrolled cellular proliferation and 344 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,040 viability of various types of cancer cells, and that those 345 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,200 epigenetic benefits can be inherited by future generations. 346 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,360 We want to know why one or two dogs over 10 get cancer, right? 347 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,400 A powerful reason is that of the 8.65 million tons of ingredients 348 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,480 that go into commercial pet food, green leafy vegetables 349 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,160 make up .05%. So you know, it's really 350 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,640 important to get those things in the diet too. 351 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,680 It's not just about protein and fat, right? 352 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,640 It's it's about getting phytonutrients. 353 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,280 When I look at our recipe by weight, right, what goes into it 354 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,720 and we're, you know, we are very high protein. 355 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,960 We're the highest protein products on the market, high 356 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,320 protein, moderate fat, low carb. We're still using about 25 to 357 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,360 30% plant and mushroom components in our diet. 358 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,480 And that's because these things are loaded with fiber and water 359 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,120 which have no calories. So by weight they make up a lot, 360 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,480 but calorically they don't know. And I tend to like to break that 361 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,400 down by, you know, that 25 to 30% into maybe 15 to 20% dark 362 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,360 leafy and cruciferous greens, maybe 3 to 6% orange root 363 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,200 vegetables because they can also be sources of starch. 2 to 4% 364 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,760 fruits because they can also be sources of sugars and one to 2% 365 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,240 seeds and nuts, because they can also be sources of fat set I I 366 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,240 would put mushrooms in that orange root vegetable category 367 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,320 too, because they can also be a little bit have a little bit 368 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,440 starch component to them. Gotcha. 369 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,720 It there were a couple of things you said in there One, I am 370 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,720 feeding my dog snacks 'cause she was whining at me. 371 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,160 What's interesting and I didn't I'm just not smart enough to use 372 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,160 the word epigenetics, but I. Was talking. 373 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:10,560 I was talking to BC Henschen earlier this year because they, 374 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,520 well, just the reality is, I think even though the media 375 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:23,240 helped downplay it, we have had a huge aware, there's an 376 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,000 awareness that came early, early on this year about problems 377 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,240 still undetermined, but with some ultra processed pet foods 378 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,200 making a lot of pets sick. Like even more so than kind of 379 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,080 what we consider normal, that that kind of go under the radar. 380 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,440 And so I was talking to him about that. 381 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,640 And one of the things we were kind of it was early on in, in, 382 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,840 in this whole like awareness of the problem. 383 00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,040 And we were talking about the idea that, OK, you, you know, 384 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,960 your, your mom, your grandma, whoever is telling you that, you 385 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840 know, you, you've always had dogs and you've always fed them, 386 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,000 let's say Purina or whatever it is. 387 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,320 You've always fed them this kibble diet and they've always 388 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,200 been fine. And they've lived a long time 389 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,280 and you know, whatever. So they're going to be fine now. 390 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:25,240 But the reality as as somebody just like me observing all of 391 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,920 this is seen is that from generation to generation to 392 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,960 generation from eating this ultra processed food their 393 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,160 entire life, generation after generation after generation. 394 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:45,200 Like these dogs just now that we have now maybe just aren't able 395 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,120 to handle the these things, these high carbohydrate loads. 396 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,120 All the toxins that are we know are in whether it's the 397 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:59,120 herbicides and the pesticides and the AG ES all, all of the 398 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,720 things there's not their bodies aren't as well equipped because 399 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480 it's been so many generations now that they have been 400 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,000 nutritionally abused is comes to mind. 401 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,240 And so I think that that's probably kind of in line with 402 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840 with what you're talking about. We can change that trajectory by 403 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,360 starting to feed better foods to our dogs so that the next 404 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,600 generation is a little bit better off and then the 405 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,480 generation after that is a little bit better off than the 406 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,840 one prior to that. Yeah, absolutely. 407 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,440 Just, you know, right on. I think one of the biggest 408 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,960 challenges our dogs face today that their wild ancestors did 409 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,120 not is being deconditioned, not having enough muscle to fat in 410 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,840 our body. Fat is like a massive, it's the 411 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480 biggest metabolic organ that we have in our bodies, right. 412 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,360 And fat or I'm sorry, muscle is muscle is medicine and it's 413 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:54,840 connected to everything. It's connected to our brain 414 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,720 health. And so, you know, when we are 415 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,960 deconditioned, there are more pro inflammatory substances 416 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,120 floating around in our bodies that fuel oxidative stress, 417 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:08,240 insulin resistance, inflammation, you know, leaky 418 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,920 gut, all these problems. And, and you know, so you know, 419 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,320 our dogs are, they're deconditioned because of the 420 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,320 diets that their parents, grandparents, great grandparents 421 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,200 ate, right? Not necessarily because of what 422 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,320 we're feeding them today or because we don't get them out 423 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,040 for enough walks or all that kind of stuff. 424 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,840 They're just epigenetically set up to be deconditioned and, you 425 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,920 know, epigenetic transgenerational inheritance, 426 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,280 right, of the propensity to be fat and sick, right? 427 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,440 Those are big long words, but they basically mean whatever our 428 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,160 grandparents and great grandparents and that matters. 429 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,360 And you know, the epigenetic transgenerational inheritance of 430 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,320 the propensity to be fat and sick is a real thing, right? 431 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,680 And it's fueled by those ultra processed diets, lack of 432 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,080 exercise, stress and a rising level of toxins in our food, our 433 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,920 water supply and our environment. 434 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,760 And you know, again, when we talk about 60% of our dogs or 435 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,880 cats being even more for our cats, cats are over 60%. 436 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,120 You know, it's, it's got it. It's that, right? 437 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,000 Yeah. And so it has to be counteracted 438 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,080 by the diets our dogs eat today. Just us. 439 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,480 Well, and I think it's also why, you know, I one of the things I 440 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,320 find myself doing so often with clients that I work one-on-one 441 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:39,120 West is almost like a therapist. Like, please don't beat yourself 442 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,360 up like you thought. You know, they come to me and 443 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:42,440 they're like, I thought I was doing. 444 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,720 I've even had because I mean, you know, I'm a mentor in Doctor 445 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560 Ruth's program. And so I have students that have 446 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,800 gone through the program underneath of me and graduated 447 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,800 and come back to me asking me to help them with their pets. 448 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,280 And I'm like, you know this stuff. 449 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,920 Why are you coming to me? But they feel so defeated 450 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,760 because they feel like they've done everything right and still 451 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,280 something has happened to their pet. 452 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,640 And I'm like, you have done everything right and it is the 453 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320 most you can do. And OK, maybe we can make a few 454 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,800 tweaks here or there. But you know, you, you have to 455 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,280 realize that we have no idea what happened to this dog or 456 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,960 this cat before you adopted them. 457 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,640 We have no idea what happened to their parents or their parents 458 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920 for them. And so we just have to kind of 459 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,600 be a little gentler with ourselves. 460 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,240 Even if we think we're doing all the right things, that nature is 461 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,000 still like it's things are still going to happen. 462 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,280 And so that kind of does leave me into the fact that things do 463 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,440 happen and when they do sometimes it's so funny. 464 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,600 I was actually just recording with Doctor Chris lesson right 465 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,120 before jumping on with you. So I was talking about this 466 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:05,480 exact same thing where sometimes even though I very strongly feel 467 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,840 like for so many animals, if they are eating an ultra 468 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,920 processed diet, a lot of the times we we can transition them 469 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,120 to a fresh food diet and we're going to see a lot of 470 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,440 improvement just by doing that. But Even so, there are instances 471 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,480 where we need more support. Sometimes we need nutritional 472 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,440 adjustments and so I know you have worked for quite some time 473 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,920 with some really amazing people. Doctor Ruth Roberts, Angela 474 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:41,240 Ardolino, Rita Hogan to put these restorative diets. 475 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,760 It's OK, everybody listening as a pet verret. 476 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,560 So, so I would love for you to tell me a little bit about the 477 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,240 the new restorative diets that Greatness Gracious has 478 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,600 available. Yeah, I'd love to, you know, I, 479 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,280 I, I want to segue into that for just, you know, kind of wrapping 480 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,440 up. One of the things that you're 481 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,680 talking about as you're talking, what came to mind is my 482 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,680 audience. I don't know if you can see her 483 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,840 back there, but that's wolves. So I've read this really 484 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,680 interesting study. You know, wolves live. 485 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,600 Wolves can live 20 plus years and the and the larger they are 486 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,600 the longer they live. Our dogs huge study done 13 487 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,200 million dogs right? A study done by Mars found that 488 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,120 average lifespan or average age of time of death is 10.6 years. 489 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,080 So our dogs live 10.6 years and the and the larger they are the 490 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,160 shorter their lifespan right? Why wolves live intact through 491 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,480 natural selection right? Survival of the fittest. 492 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,000 Our dogs exist through artificial selection. 493 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,120 We breed a curated population of them because we want them and 494 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,680 then we do sex or destroy most of the rest, right? 495 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,480 So what's the result of this natural versus artificial 496 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,880 selection for the last 13,000 to 130,000 years, right? 497 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,680 I mean, that's about how long? A little bit up in the air. 498 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,800 It's a 10, you know, order of magnitude difference. 499 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,800 But we've been domesticating dogs for a long, long time. 500 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680 So what's the result of that artificial selection for at 501 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,600 least the last 13,000 years? You know, some studies have 502 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,120 found that wolves have antioxidant generating 503 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,400 superpowers. Our dogs do not. 504 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,600 Our dogs actually instead accumulate lipid damage. 505 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,280 So over time, excessive storage of fat in our tissues causes 506 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,160 things like inflammation, oxidative stress, mitochondrial 507 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,040 dysfunction. So mitochondria are those little 508 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,080 power plants inside our cells, so they create energy, but like 509 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,000 any factory, they pollute. And a lot of free radicals come 510 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,800 from mitochondria. But it causes this in our brain, 511 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,760 in our peripheral nervous system, which is in charge of 512 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,800 voluntary and involuntary functions like mobility and 513 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,040 urination and digestion. So when we start to see those 514 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,440 problems happening in our dogs, you know this can be a reason we 515 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:21,520 also fat storage in tissues like the liver, pancreas, heart, bone 516 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,760 marrow can cause insulin resistance. 517 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,880 And those things set us up for a cascade of problems cluster of 518 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,040 biochemical and physiological abnormalities that put us at 519 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,400 risk for metabolic disease or put our dogs at risk for 520 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,560 metabolic disease. So when we developed our 521 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,720 restorative diets, it, you know, part of and part of that is in 522 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,720 our mind, right? It's that we've got a difference 523 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280 between our dogs and their wild ancestors. 524 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,040 And so this ancestral model we need, we may need to tweak a 525 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,800 little bit, right? And you know, it's the model we 526 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,960 applied to our classic diets too. 527 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,360 You know, it's wasn't just something we kind of developed 528 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,640 as we were looking at a restorative diets, but we wanted 529 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,120 to do something in line in that model and, and also incorporate 530 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,000 some really, really cool ingredients that put them 531 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,120 together in a way that serves nutritional purpose, not just 532 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,840 overall general health. So we, when we, if I can talk 533 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,800 for just a little bit more about that model, you know, we're, 534 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,480 we're utilizing higher protein levels because most of our dogs 535 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,680 are spayed or neutered. And testosterone and estrogen 536 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,320 are powerful promoters of muscle mass, strength and function. 537 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,960 Testosterone can increase protein synthesis, decreased 538 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,640 protein or cortisol related protein breakdown. 539 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,600 Estrogen plays a role in muscle formation, contractile 540 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,200 properties, exercise, endurance, all of that. 541 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560 And muscle is super important. It's not just for mobility, but 542 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480 anytime our muscles do work, they release myo myokines, which 543 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,640 are little protein signaling molecules and they're picked up 544 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,240 by the brain and they help with learning and memory and healthy 545 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,920 emotional behaviors and something really cool called 546 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,639 BDNF. You know, BDNF, it stands for 547 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,560 Brain Dr. Neurotrophic Factor and it supports the survival, 548 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,239 growth and health of our brain cells. 549 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,719 So, you know, muscle is really important not just for metabolic 550 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,880 health and mobility, but our brain and our dogs brains too. 551 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,719 So we, we wanted to make sure that our protein levels were 552 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,280 were elevated beyond the ancestral model. 553 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,120 We wanted to look at fat right, because fat if we've got, you 554 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,920 know, dogs that are have issues with accumulation of fat in 555 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,360 their diet and we know that prolonged not only prolonged 556 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,320 high carbohydrate diets cause insulin resistance, but so do 557 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,760 prolonged high saturated fat diets, in particular the 558 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,480 pulmonic and stearic acids that we find in muscle meats. 559 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,720 So choosing high protein but lean muscle meats was really 560 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,720 important for us in in these diets. 561 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:10,080 And then also an abundance of beautiful mushrooms and dark 562 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,040 leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables. 563 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,360 Because when we look at the whole picture of what our dogs 564 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:19,560 eat, a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet, plants and 565 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,040 and fungi play a necessary role, right? 566 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,920 They're the source of the antioxidants that protect the 567 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,240 fats in our foods and the fats in our bodies from damage. 568 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,120 Vitamin E and carotenoids do this really well. 569 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480 Carotenoids are found in dark leafy aggrociporous greens as 570 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,440 well as orange root vegetables. We also they're also alkalizing 571 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,880 to the body, so protein is acidifying. 572 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,920 So they counteract the acidifying facts of a high 573 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,080 protein diet. And some of the our ingredient 574 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,400 choices like in our kidney diet can actually lower uremic 575 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,880 toxins. So uremic toxins are the natural 576 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,960 byproduct of protein and fat digestion and healthy bodies can 577 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,560 process those things just fine. But when we have a body that's 578 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,640 with kidney, struggling with kidney disease, that can become 579 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,280 a problem. So when we so that's kind of the 580 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,200 overall and plus we need those things to avoid synthetics 581 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,080 because, you know, that's just religion for us, you know, but 582 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,840 so, so we developed a diet called Rejuve for gut health and 583 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,400 total body health. We developed a diet called Jing 584 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:27,680 for Kidney health. That's the only one that's not 585 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,200 complete and balanced because it's intentionally low in 586 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,840 phosphorus, but it meets all the other requirements. 587 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,560 It's actually got 45% of the calories in that come from 588 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,520 protein. So it's just under the ancestral 589 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,680 model, but it's still by far the highest protein kidney diet that 590 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,360 you'll find out there and higher than it's got more protein than 591 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,720 most raw foods and most most foods on the market anyway. 592 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,000 So it's a which is great for early to mid stage kidney 593 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,720 disease. And in some cases, I was just 594 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:01,960 listening to Barbara Royal talk at the feed rail summit about 595 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,080 kidney disease. And even in late stage kidney 596 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,000 disease, she never restricts protein. 597 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,440 So, so just tuck that in the back of your mind there. 598 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,760 And then we use, we have jive for brain health and reveal for 599 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,600 metabolic health. So we're utilizing in most of 600 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,480 these recipes medicinal mushrooms, so like shiitake and 601 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:31,120 oyster mushroom and in Raju, my Taki mushroom in reveal lion's 602 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,600 mane and reishi mushroom in our brain health one because each of 603 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,320 these mushrooms is known to excel in those particular areas, 604 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,760 right? Reishi and oyster mushroom are, 605 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,480 I'm sorry, Reishi and lion's mane mushroom, for example, can 606 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,080 work or they're adaptogenic and they can protect and regenerate 607 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,920 nerve fibers. They can improve sleep and 608 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,520 cognition, reduce stress and anxiety and stress and anxiety 609 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,280 is bad for everything in the body, right? 610 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,960 It's bad for muscle health, bad for brain health, bad for our 611 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,240 gut. We're utilizing Rita Hogan was 612 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,160 amazing. She helped us with our herbal 613 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,600 additions. Angela helped us with our 614 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,280 mushroom additions, Angela Ardolino. 615 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,720 So we're very honored to work with the both of them. 616 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:22,520 So in our gut recipe, we're utilizing calendula and plantain 617 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,520 leaf. Calendula, we often think of it 618 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,080 for skin wounds, but it's healing to the gut in the same 619 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,680 way it is to the skin. It can also stimulate digestive 620 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,280 secretions and lymphatics. Plantain leaf supports the 621 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,800 production of a substance called glycocalyx, which is a sticky 622 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,560 substance that helps commensal bacteria adhere to the gut wall. 623 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,320 It also boosts the replication of healthy gut lining cells and 624 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,320 that protective mucus layer in the gut. 625 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,560 We're utilizing bilberries and plums in that one because 626 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,040 they're like supercharged blueberries, but the fiber and 627 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,680 plums is really great for a healthy gut. 628 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,360 Spinach is in that one too, because spinach is a crazy good 629 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,280 anti cancer and longevity booster. 630 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840 It's gut food, brain food, metabolic food. 631 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,960 It's high in those carotenoids, which protect the oxidation of 632 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,520 fats in our bodies, and in that one where our main protein is 633 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,520 pork, because it's energetically neutral and lean, we're using 634 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,680 pork liver too. It's also loaded with B 635 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,480 vitamins, zinc, and selenium that together support joints, 636 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,960 immune function, thyroid function, and tons of enzymatic 637 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,800 functions in the body. It's also high in B3 and some 638 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,400 really, really cool kind of brainy scientific studies have 639 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,960 shown that B3 supports the mitochondria, the communication 640 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,960 inside our cells between our mitochondria and our and our 641 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,360 mitochondrial DNA and our nucleic DNA. 642 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,560 And that communication when it's like really active is a hallmark 643 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,040 of like really young bodies. And so science scientists have 644 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,720 been able to reverse aging in mice by boosting this 645 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:12,200 intracellular communication. And vitamin B3 plays a role in 646 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,840 that, which is really fascinating. 647 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,920 So. Wow. 648 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,840 Yeah, Yep, we're used a lot. We're just using nettles in a 649 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,920 couple of our recipes. Nettles are great for adrenal 650 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,440 function, kidneys and nerves. They help balance cortisol, 651 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,080 histamines in our bodies, as well as serotonin. 652 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:41,080 The So those are really, really great our kidney diet, we're 653 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,400 using marshmallow root and BlackBerry leaf because they can 654 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,680 and ginger root because they can strengthen and tone kidney 655 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,640 function right and prevent UTI's and do a whole bunch of really 656 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,320 good stuff for for kidney health. 657 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,520 So they're really, really fascinating recipes where I love 658 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,360 our sprouts. I can't even stop talking about 659 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,960 them. So we were using we, so we 660 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,880 partnered with a local woman owned farm that makes gross 661 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000 organic broccoli sprouts and mung bean sprouts. 662 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,600 And so we're using those in in some of our recipes, which I'm 663 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,200 really, really excited about. Oh, I love that I can. 664 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,920 Go on and on. But you know, you probably have 665 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,040 to cut me off, so no. No, it's OK. 666 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,640 I love, I love that. And I love that you're 667 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,560 passionate about them because they, they look absolutely 668 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,640 amazing. And you mentioned the kidney 669 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,840 diet a couple of times and you kind of made a point to talk a 670 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,840 little bit about Doctor Barbara Royal and not doing low protein 671 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080 for kidney. And that is a big, I think 672 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,240 that's pretty controversial. I happen to be kind of in 673 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:57,800 agreeance with that. And it, it's been one of those 674 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,080 things. I actually was just instructing 675 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:07,000 one of my students the other day because for her homework, she 676 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,480 was like, well, I'm going to make the kidney diet for my dog. 677 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,560 And I'm like, please do not like there is, yeah, I do not want 678 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:22,120 that low of protein in your dog. And I think there's so much to 679 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,120 weigh there, which I think there is. 680 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,560 That's why there's so much controversy because on one hand 681 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,840 we do want lower phosphorus because, you know, the kidney 682 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,400 just can't function, is not functioning the way it's 683 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,840 supposed to be. It can't handle the same amount 684 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,280 of, of, you know, filtration of toxins of, of phosphorus of 685 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,840 even, you know, breaking down proteins and all of that. 686 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,720 But on the other hand, our dogs and cats are carnivores. 687 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,120 And they, I know there's, there's also controversy on that 688 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,200 omnivorous carnivores for dogs, whatever they're carnivores, 689 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,920 they're all carnivores. They need meat. 690 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,960 They need the essential amino acids from meat to thrive, to 691 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,880 survive. And when we decrease the protein 692 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,360 in their diet, their body has to get those amino acids from 693 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,080 somewhere. So they're, they're, they're 694 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,120 literally going to cannibalize their own muscle in their body. 695 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,400 So it, it really is this like balance of, you know, if you 696 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,000 have a dog or a cat that is just diagnosed with kidney disease 697 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,320 and maybe it's a stage one, maybe even a stage 2 that you 698 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,640 know, your vet is telling you. I. 699 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,680 Personally cannot see decreasing the protein for this animal. 700 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,280 Like yes, we need to work on kidney health, but decreasing 701 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,400 protein isn't the way to Do you want to talk a little bit about 702 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,000 what you learned with creating? This stuff more than happy to so 703 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,200 IIA 100% agree with you. You know, the, the, I think, I 704 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:05,760 think perhaps veterinarians when they give guidance, right about 705 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,240 kidney health, it gets oversimplified. 706 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:16,840 And so because phosphorus is found very in high levels in 707 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,040 most meats and organs, right, that low phosphorus diet gets 708 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,960 translated into or interpreted as low protein. 709 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,120 And but low protein diets are bad, like they're bad for kidney 710 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,800 health for so many reasons in because of the ones you named. 711 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,560 Also, because uremic toxins can are already causing a breakdown 712 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:49,080 of muscle in, in the body and generally kidney disease, you 713 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,840 know, it's not like kidney disease happens in a vacuum in 714 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,040 the body. Kidney disease happens because 715 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,200 there's a whole bunch of other things playing a role in there. 716 00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,600 Thyroid generally gets thrown in there. 717 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,000 Pancreatic, pancreatic issues, diabetes gets, you know, thrown 718 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,960 into all of that complex disease process generally. 719 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,320 And, and those things are going to cause accumulation of fat and 720 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,480 muscle tissue, which breaks down fat and makes us, you know, weak 721 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,880 and stiff and sore. And that leads to more 722 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,320 deconditioning, right, That we started talking about at the 723 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,880 outset, right? The, the problem that our dogs 724 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,320 or the way our dogs differ from the wild ancestors is that 725 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,520 they're more, you know, more prone to deconditioning. 726 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,640 So, but protein is really, really important for, for kidney 727 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,840 dogs because the nature of that disease is to cause muscle 728 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,880 wasting. And the fastest way to get to 729 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,760 get sicker is to not move, right. 730 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,160 And so you need muscle to move, You need muscle to feel better. 731 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,160 Exercise is going to release endorphins in your body 732 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,040 naturally making you feel better. 733 00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,240 It's going to increase the health and size of the 734 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:01,920 hippocampus, making your brain better, you know, and all of 735 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,280 that. And your brain and your brain 736 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,560 health is tied into your kidney health. 737 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,120 So when we talk about protein and in particular animal 738 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,800 protein, so animal proteins are high in branched chant amino 739 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,040 acids like isoleucine and leucine and these things, you 740 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,960 know, generally speaking, in fed states, muscle protein synthesis 741 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,840 exceeds muscle protein breakdown, right? 742 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,000 And they'll reverse is true in fasted states, but but animal 743 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,440 protein causes it's least studies show that it it is 744 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,760 linked or causes a higher and more sustained synthesis of 745 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,320 protein in our body, which we need. 746 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,840 It was just how muscle is made right. 747 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:47,640 And so making sure that we get enough meat in our diet helps 748 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,040 with that, that protein. So there's a whole cascade of 749 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,760 problems, right, when we have kidney health and, and our 750 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,040 kidney issues. So, you know, generally 751 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,680 speaking, it's, you know, we have the microscopic little 752 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,520 filters in our kidneys, right? And, and they, their job is, is 753 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,680 to, you know, obviously to filter. 754 00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,600 And so when we have problems or generally we'll have circulatory 755 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,240 micro circulation problems that cause not enough nutrients 756 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,160 reaching those kidneys and reaching those microscopic 757 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,480 filters and that that's what causes that problem. 758 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,680 So when we have later stages in the disease, we're not able to 759 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,240 control acid based balance in our body really well. 760 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,560 We can't control or regulate electrolytes and water very 761 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,200 well. So we're having, we might have 762 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,200 had hypertension, but now we've got a worsening of hypertension 763 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,000 and that creates a cyclical process of further damaging 764 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,840 those blood vessels. We have eventually become anemic 765 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,360 in later stages of the disease because erythropoietin is the 766 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,160 hormone that's released by the kidneys that tells our bone 767 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,360 marrow to make red blood cells. And our kidneys are involved in 768 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:05,440 glucose because it manufacturers glucose from amino acids at at a 769 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,000 rate that's pretty much rivals the liver. 770 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,560 And so that organ is really important for, for that 771 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,200 function. So, you know, I mean, I'm, I 772 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,880 think I'm rambling on, but, but, but maintaining, you know, but 773 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,320 protein is really important. Making sure we're getting enough 774 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,400 dark, you know, dark leafy cruciferous greens in our diet 775 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,440 is really important because they're alkalizing And our 776 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,080 kidneys, you know, if they're not functioning properly, our 777 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,840 body's going to become acidic. So, you know, we want to make 778 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,160 sure we have that fresh food diets are super important, 779 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,600 right? Because kidneys need water to be 780 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,640 able to do their job really, really well. 781 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,560 And dry food diets are just the, I mean, they've got, they've got 782 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,040 to be as equally bad as low protein diets for kidney 783 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,080 disease. I agree. 784 00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,040 I mean, I tell people all the time like hydration as a hill 785 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,240 I'm going to die on over and above anything else, hydration 786 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:10,600 is, is the hill I will die on. But so you have been able with 787 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:15,600 the restorative diet for the one that's called Jing for kidney, 788 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,200 you have been able to do the low phosphorus well as you said, 789 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,840 keeping the protein exactly. Right. 790 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,200 So what we're using in in that one is so our protein sources 791 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,520 are egg whites. So egg whites are really, really 792 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,960 high in protein, but but really low in phosphorus. 793 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,360 So we're getting a lot of protein from that. 794 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,960 We're also using the whole egg because we need choline levels 795 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,000 and we, it's really important for us to get natural choline 796 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,520 because synthetic choline is very damaging to the kidneys. 797 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,040 And you know, believe it or not, prescription or therapeutic 798 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,240 diets or kidney like kidney friendly diets have synthetic 799 00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:58,160 choline in them. So I would encourage people to 800 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,960 try to find another alternative than that diet. 801 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,280 So, so we, we're utilizing whole eggs to get the choline in them, 802 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,480 but not as not not enough so that you know, our phosphorus 803 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,240 levels are really high. And then we're also using pork 804 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:16,680 kidney because kidney, pork kidney is energetically neutral. 805 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:23,440 It's nutrient dense and rich protein source inspired at low 806 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,720 phosphorus and inspired by the principle of like heels like. 807 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,920 So those are those are predominant protein sources that 808 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,600 that we're using in, in that recipe. 809 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,160 I love that. And I know you do have another 810 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:41,400 call to get to soon. So, yeah, I think this was so 811 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,600 incredibly informative and this is, you know, going to help 812 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,880 people both with understanding pet food labels a little bit 813 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,720 more, which, you know, the reality is that not everybody 814 00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:01,560 out there is able to feed 100% fresh food diets all the time. 815 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:07,680 So providing information to people to be able to make the 816 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,840 best decisions possible with the information they have available 817 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,280 to them is, is so important to me. 818 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,760 I tell people all the time, like what, you know, I get asked a 819 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,000 question, what if I, you know, I'm just in that financial 820 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:29,560 situation where I, I can only afford kibble and I'm like, OK, 821 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:35,080 let's do like the some of the cheapest kibble and put as much 822 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,400 of that budget into fresh foods on top of it. 823 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,680 Like let's, you know, because the reality is ultra processed 824 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,080 food is ultra processed food. And we can argue semantics about 825 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,200 the quality of ingredients and different ultra processed foods, 826 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,640 but it's still ultra processed, right? 827 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,640 I think I think that that's good advice, right? 828 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,960 I mean as much as much of that ultra processed food as you can 829 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,200 replace with Whole Foods. You know, if it if it means 830 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,800 that, OK, instead of buying a high end kibble, I'm going to 831 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,720 buy a low end kibble, right. I mean, obviously there's there 832 00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:17,080 are really bad ones, but you know, Yeah, yeah. 833 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,240 For sure. Like I, I, I gotcha right. 834 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,560 Then take that money and, and apply it to a a whole food diet 835 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,920 as and mix it in as much as I can, you know, Bravo. 836 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,600 You know, I mean, I think that that's, that's a really great 837 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,120 approach. Yeah. 838 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,800 And, you know, they're, they're designed to be, you know, all of 839 00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,920 them are designed to be either whole, the whole food or a mix 840 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,040 in or a Topper. I mean, that was really 841 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,840 important for us too, is, you know, we've got herbs and 842 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,800 medicinal mushrooms in there at therapeutic levels, But they're 843 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,520 they are things that you can have every day. 844 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,920 And, you know, for the long term, because kidney disease 845 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,200 really is not necessarily it's not something you cure. 846 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,320 It's just something that you so slow the progression of. 847 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,160 Oh yes for sure. I think it's like 1 of the only, 848 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,680 the only organ that doesn't really regenerate, right. 849 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:15,720 Like, yeah, yeah. So I, I, I love everything 850 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,880 you're doing. And goodness gracious, I'm super 851 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,680 excited about the new restorative diets for dogs. 852 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,040 And you do have cat recipes in your regular. 853 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:27,880 Yeah, we do. We do. 854 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,560 Which I love, especially if people can get their cats 855 00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,400 transitioned earlier on in life. I mean, it's still possible 856 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,120 later on in life, but much, much harder. 857 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,280 So I never want to leave the kiddies out of it because they 858 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,560 are super, super important to me. 859 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:49,320 And I think possibly often like they, they get less veterinary 860 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,760 care than dogs do. I think more often than not 861 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:58,040 they're fed more poorly than dogs because they are so 862 00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,800 finicky. They are implant, implant, 863 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,640 imprint theater. It's just harder, harder to 864 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,120 transition them. So the earlier the better. 865 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:13,200 But I love that you also have some some cat recipes for people 866 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,920 and where can people find you? Where can they buy the food? 867 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,320 How can they follow you on social? 868 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,680 Because Oh my gosh, the information you have is so 869 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,040 incredible. Oh. 870 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,240 Thank you. Yeah, yeah. 871 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,840 So, so we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, Goodness gracious 872 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,960 Pat and our website, Goodness gracious Co. 873 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,400 You can find us there. You can order online and then or 874 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,240 depending upon where you live, you could find it in, in your 875 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,640 local store. So if anybody wants to e-mail 876 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,440 our customer service, if they don't see it in their local 877 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,720 store, e-mail us and we'll try to point you in the right 878 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,720 direction. We're, we're not nationwide yet. 879 00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:57,280 We're, we're working on it, right? 880 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:02,800 But you know, 11 place at a time, one step at a time. 881 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,040 So yeah, absolutely. Well, I certainly appreciate you 882 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,720 and everything that you do to make pets lives better. 883 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,040 I can't wait to see you speak in person again one day. 884 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,880 And I don't guys. I'm just. 885 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,160 Going to say I'm going to be at the Nautical Dog event in July. 886 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,480 So that'll be that'll be fine. And then there's a couple of 887 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,880 other things that are potentially coming up, but we'll 888 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,000 talk about those. When they're official, I, I do 889 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,960 love going to the knuckle dog event. 890 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,280 I get to kind of do a duel. That's where I'm from Hampton 891 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,480 Roads. So I go like, I go to the event 892 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,320 and then I go like see my family. 893 00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,400 So it's like a kill. Well, I go, I, I generally I'll 894 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,160 go to North Carolina, see my grandparents, then I'll go to 895 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,160 the event and then I'll go to Suffolk and see my family. 896 00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,640 And so I get to, you know, kill a whole bunch of birds with 1 897 00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:02,440 stuff. But thank you again, Amy. 898 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,840 I so appreciate you. And for everybody listening, 899 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,640 please check the show notes for hopefully some simplified math 900 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,400 that you can just copy and paste into your notes app and the 901 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,320 links to for goodness gracious and all of all of that wonderful 902 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,000 information. I do hope you check it out and 903 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,160 try it out for your pets. And yeah, until next time, Amy, 904 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,240 thank you so much. Thank you, Jessica. 905 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,760 Take care. Bye bye.