1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Welcome back pet parent. This has to be the most excited 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,600 I have ever been for a new episode. 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,960 And I just, I, I can't even wait. 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,680 Dr. Ian Billinghurst is a retired veterinary surgeon, but 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,800 you probably know him as the father of raw feeding and he has 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,120 been so gracious to join us today to answer some questions 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,840 that I hope will help you guys in feeding your dogs and cats. 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,400 So thank you so much Doctor Billinghurst for being here with 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,800 us today. How the heck are you? 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,600 Well, thank you Jessica for that lovely introduction as well as I 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,040 can be at this advanced age and never eating properly as I 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,960 should. I understand that I cannot tell 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,240 you. This past week, I will admit I 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,880 have eaten way too many goldfish, which are like those 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,640 tiny little cheddar crackers that we have here that I know 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,040 contain way too much glyphosate. But it's it's just what it is 17 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:55,320 for me this week. I'm trying to eat healthy 18 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,360 outside of the handfuls of glyphosate written grain that 19 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,360 I'm eating in between. Our grandson has been around and 20 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,320 my darling wife who who also cooks lots of lovely food and I 21 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:10,640 eat way too much of it. She has bought him these lovely 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,040 chocolate things and sweeties and and of course at the end of 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,720 the day when they just feel like something sweet they are far too 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,160 big a temptation. But anyway, here I am still 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,520 going more or less and happy to answer any questions you might 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,440 have. Somebody may have, if you're 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,280 watching the video, noticed one of my cats kind of peeking and 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,640 her name is Samantha. She might be kind of, she might 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,200 peek around every once in a while. 30 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:45,680 She's I call her Sis or Sissy. She's 17 years young, but she's 31 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:50,320 not doing too great right now. I think I actually told somebody 32 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,240 recently, it happened so, so quickly, almost overnight. 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,800 And I was like, you know what? But I think that's the best way. 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,480 Like, you know, they live an amazing life for so long and 35 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,440 then when they do go downhill, it it's, it's pretty quick. 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,960 I think that's the best way for for it to happen. 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,840 So she's. Going to do it. 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,639 We've seen that so often with their own animals. 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,000 So one moment they're smiling and happy, next minute they're 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,320 heading off just to lay down somewhere quietly and go away 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,280 from us. They no longer want to interact. 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:27,000 They no no longer want to eat. Yeah, it's a terrible time for 43 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,320 us to a witness, but as you say, it is the best way. 44 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,760 They haven't suffered years of being treated with drugs and 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,680 tests and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 46 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,240 They know it's time and we have to accept their decision. 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,680 That's. What I'm trying to do with her, 48 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,880 but she in the meantime she's getting to do whatever she 49 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,480 wants, which often means walking across my computer so. 50 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,120 Of course. So you are the father of raw 51 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,840 feeding and that is the primary reason why I wanted to have you 52 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,040 on. I like to bring different 53 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,200 viewpoints on this podcast. Most of my listeners are what we 54 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,480 call 2.0 pet parents, which I don't know, maybe Rodney Habib 55 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,040 coined that, I'm not sure. But they know enough to know 56 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,760 they want to do better for their pets. 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,760 I am a huge raw feeding advocate. 58 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,520 I actually took your Billinghurst Institute course, 59 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,760 which was wonderful. I, you know, in my messaging on 60 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,000 social media, try to talk about fresh food as much as possible 61 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,160 to include as many people as possible. 62 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:34,280 But I really do have like in my heart, raw feeding is what I do 63 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,880 believe is the best for our pets. 64 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,920 So I know having taken your course and of course, you know, 65 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:46,400 anybody that's rid read your books knows that a little bit 66 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,640 about the history of how you started this whole movement many 67 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,920 years ago. Can you just kind of briefly 68 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,280 catch anybody up who may not know the history of how you 69 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,360 decided that this is how dogs and cats should be eating? 70 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,800 Well, it got Yeah, right. It's it goes back a long way. 71 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,600 I did agricultural science before I did veterinary science 72 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,480 where I learned about the nutrition of farm animals and 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,480 the fact that farmers want healthy pets and most of the 74 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,160 time that means healthy food and the right food and, and all of 75 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,640 that stuff. But then I became, well, I, I 76 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,600 didn't want to continue in that. I really wanted to. 77 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,520 I was out as a young man, 21 years old, doing something I 78 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,680 could not do now. We were, we, we didn't have a 79 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,520 lot of money and I was living out in the woods and all the 80 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,680 bushes we say in Australia and to feed ourselves and our 81 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,600 families. We were hunting a fair bit a 82 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,320 lot, mainly rabbits, which were pests at that time. 83 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,040 So we were feeding ourselves and our one dog. 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,160 That and our one dog also would eat all sorts of things, like we 85 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,520 had young children at the time, like baby poo and all that 86 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,480 stuff. Now I didn't have a clue about 87 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,360 feeding dogs, but this, this lady, this young lady, Candy was 88 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,800 her name. She was a kelpie. 89 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,360 She taught me everything. Anyway, I moved from the Bush, 90 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,520 eventually went back to study veterinary science. 91 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,640 Long story, but during that process I thought I will learn 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,760 really how to feed dogs and cats. 93 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,240 But unfortunately the bottom line, even back then, and this 94 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,160 was in the 1970s, feed a complete and balanced commercial 95 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,200 pet food and everything will be fine. 96 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:30,400 We were taught that this is what you have to tell your clients. 97 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,040 Now I'd never done that. So when I became a young vet, I 98 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,560 was really a little bit confused. 99 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,560 In my own mind, I told people what we did and what the 100 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,840 veterinary profession said they ought to do. 101 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,600 Anyway, Mike, the family ultimately decided something I 102 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,960 never wanted to do, which was to go into shows breeding and 103 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,800 showing dogs. We had what do we have? 104 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,680 We had Rottweilers. That's the ones we were showing 105 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:55,960 at the moment. Oh, and poodles. 106 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,640 Anyway, they decided that's what we wanted to do and they said 107 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,080 but since we're going to show dogs we now have to feed them 108 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,360 properly so they will be absolutely magnificent. 109 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,520 So we started to feed them what we had been taught at Vets Bill 110 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,200 and for the next two years our dogs went downhill. 111 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,960 Nothing major at first. They the coats now started to 112 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,720 look awful. They started to smell. 113 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,280 For the first time they were actually getting wormy and had 114 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,360 an external parasite. Now we've never had these 115 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,160 problems before. They had ear problems, we 116 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,000 started to get reproductive problems and some of our dogs 117 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,680 reacted badly to vaccines. So all of this was happening for 118 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,840 the first time to my own dogs. Now, I was studying veterinary 119 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,320 science. Sorry, I was studying 120 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,560 acupuncture, already studied veterinary science. 121 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,520 I was studying acupuncture at the time and met a lot of these 122 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,440 really kooky people who were into things like, well, they're, 123 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,920 they're into herbs, they're into Reiki, all sorts of stuff. 124 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,440 And one of the ladies I met at that told me about the fact that 125 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,440 she was using raw food. As she spoke about it, I 126 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,120 realized this was what we had always done and she was 127 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,520 extolling the virtues of it. Anyway, I went back to feeding 128 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,280 my own dogs this way, and I started to recommend it to 129 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,320 clients. Well, the changes I saw were 130 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,840 incredible. So then I started to research 131 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,160 food. One of the things I researched, 132 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,120 just one of them, there were many things I looked at, 133 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,440 literature research. One of the things I looked at 134 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,160 was I looked at countries like Australia over the years, 135 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:38,360 Taiwan, China, New Zealand, where raw food had recently been 136 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,120 introduced. Now these were epidemiological 137 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:46,040 studies and I noted that from the time those epidemic, the raw 138 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,840 food was introduced, there was a complete change in the disease 139 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,320 pattern. The diseases that were 140 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,880 eliminated very quickly were four very simple diseases of 141 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,800 excess and deficiency. The all meat diet for for dogs 142 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,760 and the all fish diet for cats and the all liver diet for cats. 143 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,080 And without going to the details, these all disappeared 144 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,320 overnight. And the pet food industry had 145 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,640 hailed this as a wonderful benefit to the pet owning public 146 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,240 and to the animals. But what happened over the next 147 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,280 few years, and it took it happened slowly. 148 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,200 This commercial pet food. This is an epidemiological study 149 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,240 animals eating the commercial pets with slowly begun to 150 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,960 develop degenerative disease processes, things they had never 151 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,440 developed before it it this inflammatory bowel disease, 152 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:40,840 autoimmune disease, severe arthritis, escalating kidney 153 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,800 failure and escalating cancer. Now this happens so slowly that 154 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,960 the profession generally accepted it as part as a normal 155 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,360 part of the ageing process in these countries and it's been 156 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,600 accepted that way ever since. But wherever this food was 157 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,520 introduced, this followed the same pattern that I saw with my 158 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,640 own animals. I never got to the degenerative 159 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,600 disease process by the way, because I stopped them. 160 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,640 But this is how the the whole thing. 161 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:10,600 So back in those early days, I thought, how do I tell anybody 162 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,560 about this? I actually, I went to a forum in 163 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:17,040 Australia to tell my profession what it was all about 0 164 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,880 interest, just absolute silence. I thought the only people I can 165 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,000 tell are the general pet only public. 166 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,040 So I thought, well, I can't write a scientific book. 167 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,040 Nobody reads those. I'll write a very simple book. 168 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,640 So I wrote give your dog a bone. And my actually my children at 169 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,720 the time said, well, dad, that's still far too long and 170 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,920 complicated. But anyway. 171 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:42,080 But away it went and it has gradually made a difference. 172 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,600 But we still have a profession now where they are still trained 173 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,800 by the pet food companies, even more so. 174 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,960 And the pet food companies push back even harder against raw 175 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:58,360 food, and they still use those same for problems of efficient 176 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,480 deficiency and excess, to persuade young vet students that 177 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,680 raw food is dangerous, unbalanced and should never be 178 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:06,960 fed. And they also, of course, use 179 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,840 bacteria and bones as well. So there's 33 things, bugs, 180 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,560 bones and balance. They're the things that they use 181 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:19,120 to scare young vets who are very captive minds and now become 182 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,720 hardwired to become salespeople for commercial pet food for the 183 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,320 rest of their lives. So that's a potted history of 184 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,280 this whole situation, but I'm pleased to say we now have 185 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,360 things like a, a raw veterinary society started in England by 186 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,040 Nick Thompson and a huge interest amongst a growing 187 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:41,320 number of vets for raw food and understanding that this is what 188 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,640 our pets were actually designed to use by evolution. 189 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,400 And this is this is the point. If you have a, for example, if 190 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,200 you have a car, use the manufacturer's spare parts, the 191 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,840 the servicing schedule, the oil, the fuel, all that stuff. 192 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,600 If you use those, your car lasts a long time. 193 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:02,560 If you don't, your car breaks down early. 194 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:04,200 Same thing with our dogs and cats. 195 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,880 They're breaking down early because we're putting in the 196 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,400 wrong fuels, spare parts, etcetera, etcetera. 197 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,640 That's been my, I guess, the passion of my life, apart from 198 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,560 my family and also looking after my clients. 199 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,160 That's been the passion of my life and the driving force 200 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,600 that's kept me going. And right now actually, I'm, I'm 201 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,880 writing a revised version of Give Your Dog a Banner. 202 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,360 I think it's going to take me some time because there's so 203 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,560 much more to include now. I love it. 204 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,440 I can't wait for that. I actually have two things to 205 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,000 follow up on with what you just said before we move on the 1st, 206 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,800 I'm curious what your thoughts are on this because of what I 207 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,400 mean, what we have witnessed for so long as pet parents and what 208 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,000 you just said about veterinarians being basically 209 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,600 indoctrinated by big pet food companies. 210 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:01,000 Colgate Palmolive, which is Hill's Pet Nutrition, just 211 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,200 purchased a raw food company in Australia. 212 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,520 It isn't a raw food that I would have liked to feed my dog 213 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,840 because it was the one of those here's some food and we added a 214 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,320 premix to it kind of thing that I don't love. 215 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,400 But you know, they're seeing these big pet food companies. 216 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,760 I think they're seeing that raw feeding isn't going anywhere. 217 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,080 They're either going to have to get on the bandwagon or just 218 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,200 push harder in our marketing against it. 219 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,640 And I'm just so curious to see how what they're going to have 220 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,880 to tell veterinarians is going to change over time when they're 221 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,080 now purchasing a raw food pet company to, I assume, get in the 222 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,040 market. I don't know. 223 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,160 Are you able to say what that raw pet food company is I I'm 224 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,960 not aware of? I'm 100 I think. 225 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,000 OK, OK. That would account for the 226 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,800 enormous amount of advertising being done by this particular 227 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,480 company. I said. 228 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,280 I I've watched it and I thought, my goodness, how can this 229 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,200 company afford such an enormous level of advertising? 230 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,800 Now I know that I have a lot of thoughts about this, but I'm not 231 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,480 going to say too much because I can't speak about a specific 232 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,480 company for fear obviously, of litigation. 233 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,720 So I'm. Not going to change it. 234 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,440 Yeah, Any specific company? But yes, I don't know what 235 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,240 they're going to tell vets. Maybe they won't reveal the fact 236 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,920 that they actually own this. I don't know. 237 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,200 Vets may not realize that they own it. 238 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,720 I it'll be interesting. Now that you've told me that, I 239 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,160 will watch this space with interest. 240 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,280 Yeah, well, and I've talked to some of my colleagues in the 241 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,960 industry and I'm like, you know, so many, not all, as you said, 242 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,000 there are plenty of, or there are a growing number of 243 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,160 veterinarians who are interested in raw feeding. 244 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,000 But the ones who are really indoctrinated into you have to 245 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,440 feed this bag of food or your pet is going to die. 246 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,280 Like, I don't, I can't tell you how many times. 247 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,840 I mean, it's been told to me by a veterinarian that you're going 248 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760 to kill your pet if you don't feed this food. 249 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,720 And it's, it's almost, I was like, are you, are you a 250 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,320 hypocrite now? Like what do you even tell? 251 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:11,680 You, I don't know this well, it's really not advertised as 252 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:13,360 raw food. It doesn't even look like raw 253 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,680 food. Doesn't it comes out as a kid? 254 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,560 Does it? And the advertising? 255 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,400 Log I thought when I looked up. Well, the one I saw. 256 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,800 Oh, so yes, the one that I, OK, I had very early on in the, I 257 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,160 had been sent some samples and it was a kibble type thing. 258 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,760 But you're right, it's a log. And I don't even know whether 259 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,840 it's cooked. I don't know. 260 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,920 I don't know. All I know is that there is a 261 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,600 young lady who says she's a veterinarian. 262 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,440 I suspect. Well, she may be, I don't know 263 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,000 if she's a veterinarian or an actor. 264 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,480 And it's a single protein source. 265 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,880 And I, I thought to myself, well, that instantly tells me 266 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720 you don't know anything about raw feeding because we want 267 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,200 variety and single protein source would be when you're 268 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,080 trying to define an order to find out what, what a dog or cat 269 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,000 is allergic to. That's that's so I thought, I 270 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,320 don't, I just, you know, there's so many questions go through my 271 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,120 mind when I see that sort of thing. 272 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,040 Yeah, but but everybody, I suppose people believe, for 273 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,560 example, that mixing up protein, some people believe is a bad 274 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,160 thing. And so you can't do it, I think. 275 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,720 Do you ever witnessed a a dog? Will a dog say, oh, no, I can't, 276 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,560 I can't eat that. It's many different proteins at 277 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,400 once. And they're crazy. 278 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,120 That has never happened in the whole history of the evolution 279 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,560 of the dog. Actually brings me to my next 280 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:42,920 question about how how you see how like your thoughts on how 281 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,600 raw feeding has evolved, because I know like social media is at 282 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,080 the same time the best thing in the world and the worst thing in 283 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,000 the world. And there are there are 284 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,640 definitely people out there that I feel are giving really, really 285 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,320 bad information to people in the name of raw feeding. 286 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,400 And so I'm curious your thoughts on how this evolution of raw 287 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,320 feeding has taken place in your lifetime? 288 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,080 Whenever I give you a dog a bone. 289 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,440 I presented it as exceedingly simple, because it is. 290 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,000 I pointed out that no meal has to be complete and balanced. 291 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,920 The whole diet has to be. Or the whole not diet, let's 292 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,080 call it. It's a food program. 293 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:34,720 The whole food program has to be complete and balanced, no, And I 294 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,040 wrote and give your dog a bone. No dog in the history or cat in 295 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,320 the history of the world has had a food programme where every 296 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,960 meal was complete and balanced. That is just absolutely not 297 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,200 necessary and an impossibility. Completeness and balance is 298 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,240 actually a relationship between the homeostatic mechanisms in a 299 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,760 dog or a cat and real food, the food it was designed by 300 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,080 evolution to eat. And in that relationship between 301 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,440 the food and the basic physiological homeostatic 302 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,160 mechanisms, or just the way the the dog being all cat functions, 303 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,119 let's put it that way for simplicity's sake. 304 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,960 That relationship ensures that the animal receives all the 305 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,440 nutrients it requires. Now, the nutrients it requires 306 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,119 are not only the ones we know about, but they're the ones we 307 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,160 don't know about and the ones we have not yet recognized as 308 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,240 essential. Now that's a vastly increased 309 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,400 number of nutrients beyond what AFCO recommends and is put into 310 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,160 and insured to be in processed pet foods and which, by the way, 311 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:44,200 are not necessarily available. And because the body stores 312 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,160 nutrients, I mean, for example, we've been told that the B 313 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,520 vitamins are never stored. Well, of course they are. 314 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,400 If they weren't, our mitochondria would fail 315 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,960 instantly. We'd all be dead. 316 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,080 There is so much misinformation, scientific misinformation, half 317 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,840 truths out there. And so our bodies store 318 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,800 nutrients to be used when those foods don't contain them. 319 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,440 And we don't need this a complete and balanced and our 320 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,520 animals don't either. And I think we're going to find 321 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,040 and I think I have found over time that attempting to provide 322 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,360 that at every meal is actually more against health than for it. 323 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,560 And, and we know that, for example, we know that 324 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,440 intermittent fasting when you're actually starving a nutrients is 325 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,080 actually a good thing because, and we know the secret to long 326 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,400 life is maintaining our mitochondria. 327 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,200 And this allows the mitochondria to restore themselves. 328 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,320 So there's a period when we're completely deficient of 329 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,440 nutrients. It's called fasting or 330 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,160 intermittent fasting, whatever you want to call it. 331 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,200 But what we're looking at here is we have to look the 332 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,360 admonition that each each meal should be completely balanced is 333 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,160 simply there because it has to be legally to sell commercial 334 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,200 pet food. That's the only reason for it. 335 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,160 It's not a biological necessity. Now what we have today now is 336 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,280 because I'll get back to your question, what am I seeing in 337 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,120 raw feeding? Well, we have gurus out in the 338 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,680 world today who are making money by selling complete and balanced 339 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:16,000 diets to pet parents who are absolutely scared witless of the 340 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,720 feeding an unbalanced diet because they're going to, as 341 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,320 their vet said, will kill their dog. 342 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,960 I mean, there is a this happens again and again and again. 343 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,520 A pet parent will go into the vet, she said he or she is 344 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,600 feeding raw. The vet said, oh, this is the 345 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,680 most healthiest dog I've ever seen and asks a very logical 346 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,040 question. What are you feeding it owner? 347 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,520 Cautiously or proudly for whatever, depending on the 348 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,960 situation says, oh, we feed raw and might start to go. 349 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,760 You can't do that. You'll kill your dog. 350 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,120 And it's that's better just to explain to us the most healthy 351 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,480 dog we've ever seen. And that is that true story 352 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,160 happens again and again and again. 353 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,720 But we have this, so we have this population of pet parents 354 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,200 now who are absolutely scared, who wanted to feed raw and do 355 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,400 the right thing. I suspect it might be the right 356 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,040 way to feed the dog. But they have this idea in their 357 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,000 head that every meal has to be complete and balanced. 358 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,360 So we have gurus selling this idea to them. 359 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,480 So they these people are always dependent on their particular 360 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,120 guru and who will pay them constantly to update their diets 361 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,760 and everything else. Whereas my whole aim was to set 362 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,120 people free. You can do this. 363 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,920 It is beyond simple. A 10 year old child can do it. 364 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,360 You can produce a diet far better beyond far better than 365 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,480 any PhD in veterinarian PhD with advanced training and nutrition. 366 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,320 It's probably about 100 in the world, and everybody thinks they 367 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,480 what not every, not everybody, but the veterinary profession 368 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,040 thinks they are the only people who can actually prepare dog 369 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,680 food or cat food because they're the only people with this 370 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,000 advanced knowledge. They don't have that advanced 371 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,960 knowledge. Nobody has that advanced 372 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,400 knowledge. The inherent wisdom of the food 373 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,960 itself and the relationship between real food in 374 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,800 evolutionary balance and the animal is what produces 375 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,240 completeness and balance and depends on storage. 376 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,760 It depends on this relationship. It depends on the presence of 377 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,600 one thing that our profession is scared of, which is bacteria and 378 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,720 other and other creatures that are part of the microbiome that 379 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,800 surrounds us, that's inside of us, that covers us, that's in 380 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,640 the air we breathe, that as we interact with our dogs and cats, 381 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,480 we share their microbiome and ours with, with them. 382 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,560 Fear of bacteria and so on is one of the things that again, 383 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:43,760 mitigates against raw feeding. And so that's the situation we 384 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,640 have today. We, we have a situation where 385 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,480 people are scared to feed raw because they're going to get the 386 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,360 balance wrong and, and, and maybe the eat reduced pathogens 387 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,480 and all that stuff. And it puts many people off raw 388 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,600 feeding, which is really sad because the whole idea is that 389 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,720 this is simple beyond, and that's what my course is, is all 390 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:05,800 about showing people just how simple it is to feed raw. 391 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,760 Once they get that they're set free. 392 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,760 And this is, this is my whole aim. 393 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,080 Set people free, give them the power. 394 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,240 They understand, just like feeding themselves. 395 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,160 Well, hopefully they feed themselves properly, but like 396 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,360 they never set out to feed themselves a complete and 397 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:24,960 balanced diet at every meal. And there's no reason that our 398 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,080 dog should be and cats should be any different. 399 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,040 But they don't understand that they it's just a commercial 400 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,280 requirement, a legal requirement, not a biological 401 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,040 one. Far from. 402 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,840 It well, it is for me like I I hate so much so much. 403 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,960 There's so many foods out there that achieve this quote UN quote 404 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,960 complete imbalance, which like what even is that? 405 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,840 But they achieve it with a lot of synthetic vitamins and 406 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,480 minerals, which I think are, you know, more detrimental than 407 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,400 anything, especially over time to to our pets. 408 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:05,720 But this idea of complete and balanced, there's, you know, 409 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,480 AFCO, NRC, fatty F, these organizations who have said 410 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,080 these are the nutrients that every dog needs, that every cat 411 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,080 needs in these amounts every single day. 412 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:24,120 And it's, it's, it's mind blowing to me how we even got 413 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,600 there. I I guess just for what what you 414 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,720 said, to be able to put a food on the market to say you can 415 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,760 feed this to your pet every day for the rest of their life and 416 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,280 they're not going to die basically. 417 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,240 Well, you have to ask yourself, when you go into a 418 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,320 veterinarian's waiting room and all these animals are eating 419 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,000 processed pet foods and they've all got lining up with these 420 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,600 problems that the vet is is being asked to diagnose and 421 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,040 treat. Were they actually safe when 422 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,080 they ate this food? Is this truly the norm? 423 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Well, as I said earlier, people, the vets, veterinarians believe 424 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,840 this is just a normal part of ageing. 425 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,000 But of course it's not. It's, it's a long way from it. 426 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,640 And I mean, I think, I guess a hyperthyroidism in cats, for 427 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,360 example, that came into being when people started feeding all 428 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,040 this canned food with, with fish in it. 429 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,560 But putting all that aside, feeding dogs and cats, this is 430 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,920 my message is absurdly simple. It really just requires you to 431 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,920 think about what what the animal is. 432 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,440 Now for the, for example, the cat so simple. 433 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,680 Basically it is an oblique carnivore. 434 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,280 So pretty well a complete animal, but not at every meal. 435 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,200 It doesn't have to be. If you watch a cat eat, it won't 436 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,640 eat the complete animal at every meal. 437 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,240 If it's a, if you've had ever had barn cats or push cats as we 438 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,560 do in Australia out on farms, they don't eat the complete rat 439 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,760 or mouse every time. Sometimes they do, sometimes 440 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,720 they don't. I'll pick and choose. 441 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,200 But and the dog is not an oblique carnivore. 442 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,880 The dog, there's a number of things. 443 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,720 One of those things is a scavenger. 444 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,000 And as a scavenger it's coprophagic. 445 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,200 For example, it eats poo faeces droppings. 446 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,560 And we had poodles, sorry, we yeah, they were poodles and they 447 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,400 were and the same household we had cats and the poodles would 448 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,480 lay raid the litter tray for these these beautiful Camembert 449 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,720 cheese in their eyes, which was actually cat droppings. 450 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,720 So this is absolutely normal because in fact, faeces is a 451 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,720 brilliant source of nutrition for animals. 452 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,920 It's, it's living bodies of living and dead bodies of 453 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,680 bacteria, high quality protein, high quality. 454 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,160 It's got essential fatty acids rich in B vitamins, vitamin K, 455 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,160 that's from a herbivore. It's rich in fibre, a prebiotic, 456 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,160 plus the bacteria that go with it on and on. 457 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,000 You can, you can see this and, and people would ask me in the 458 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,360 early days, I've got a German shepherd. 459 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,440 I'm feeding it the best drives dog food I can to make sure it 460 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,520 grows solidly so it doesn't develop hip dysplasia and all 461 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,960 that. But do you know what? 462 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,600 As soon as it passes its feces, it turns around and eats that 463 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,520 and seems to prefer it over the dry food. 464 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,200 And I pointed out, well, that's because it's more nutritious 465 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,120 than the dry food for all the reasons I just gave. 466 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:23,400 And and so this has been ever thus animals who eat raw meaty 467 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:29,880 bones around about 60% of the diet, 15% awful with say just at 468 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,520 the minimum liver, kidney and heart. 469 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,080 Another 15% raw crushed vegetables to imitate the the 470 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,440 gut contents. Maybe some things that are 471 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:46,120 fermented like sauerkraut or kimchi or or Kiefer or what I've 472 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,680 recently become involved with is beautiful product, Gussey's gut 473 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,360 where where the vegetables are fermented and simple things to 474 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:57,120 mimic some of the our foods. We're not going to feed our dogs 475 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,240 faeces, but of course they're rich in essential fatty acids. 476 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,440 We might throw in some krill oil, maybe some kelp and or 477 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,880 alfalfa, both of which are very high in trace minerals. 478 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,520 And when we do do something as simple as that, the food we feed 479 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,120 is far more in its relationship to the homeostatic mechanisms of 480 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,680 the animal, far more complete and balanced than anything you 481 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,560 could ever feed produced by a pet food company. 482 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,200 And lo and behold, they're much healthier. 483 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,920 But you don't have to get yourself tied up in knots, over 484 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,440 complete and balanced or any of that stuff. 485 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600 And you brought up Gussie's cut. I was going to bring up I, I 486 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,400 mean, I've had Rob on a couple of Times Now. 487 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,440 I think it's a wonderful product. 488 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:45,440 I think incorporating fermented foods is incredible for the gut 489 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,960 microbiome. It may not be, may not be very 490 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800 easy for a lot of people to do, which is why Gussie's got kind 491 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,160 of makes it easier for people. To do. 492 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,800 So what what do you think are because I one of the things that 493 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,120 we have found, I say we as a community, not me specifically, 494 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,360 a lot of today's raw fed dogs, which we've kind of talked a 495 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,160 little bit about, you know, the evolution of raw feeding. 496 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,600 And I think generally speaking, a lot of people, we think 497 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,720 pharmaceutically, we think big pet food. 498 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,720 We think in these terms that we've just been indoctrinated 499 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,360 with through marketing for decades and decades. 500 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:32,600 So people with food specifically think I find a food that works 501 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,520 for my dog, even if it's a raw food, because they believe in it 502 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,960 and they don't change it. They feed the same thing forever 503 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,080 and ever and ever. And So what companies that are 504 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,040 out there testing microbiomes of dogs have found is that today's 505 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,600 raw fed dogs in the United States at least don't have the 506 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,000 diversity that other types of dogs eating other things have. 507 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,000 And I think that is because they're doing exactly what 508 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,880 they've been taught to do by big pet food companies for so long. 509 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,360 And that's find what works and don't change it. 510 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,600 And so incorporating something like Gussie's gut can make a 511 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,400 huge difference in the microbiome of it of a dog, even 512 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,960 if it's a raw fed dog. So I'm wondering if you would 513 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,560 like to expand a little bit on the importance of the microbiome 514 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,520 of a dog. Sure. 515 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,400 There's a couple of elements to what you've asked. 516 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,080 One is the difference between the microbiome of some raw fed 517 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,440 dogs and other dogs eating something unspecified, the 518 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,000 importance of adding say fermented material and the 519 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320 relationship between raw food and the microbiome. 520 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,160 And what is the health of these animals that have been fed the 521 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960 single item diet. I don't know the answers to much 522 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,560 to those questions. They're the areas that that you 523 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,760 have to think about. But the the most important area 524 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,120 is what is the health of these animals that are even if they're 525 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,760 having a raw food, that's one particular, I guess one 526 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,520 particular company. Is that what you're talking 527 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,280 about that's producing raw food? Yeah. 528 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,920 Is it? Or. 529 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,560 One particular recipe. I think people get stuck in 530 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,200 both. I think people find a recipe 531 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,880 online or they pay somebody to create a recipe and they stick 532 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,920 with it, or they find a company or even a recipe from a company 533 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,400 and they just feed that for an extended period of time. 534 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,720 Yeah, it would be interesting to know what the health of these 535 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,400 animals is compared to say drive, pet food animal. 536 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,920 And I don't know. And the other thing we really 537 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:38,240 don't have a handle on is what constitutes a healthy microbiome 538 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,480 that that is, that is beyond complex to understand because 539 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,440 the microbiome is very much a relationship. 540 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,560 Well, it very much depends on what you're being fed or what 541 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,200 the animals being fed, because the microbiome changes 542 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,280 constantly in response to the food, because bacteria, if if 543 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,000 you're feeding a food that favors one particular type of 544 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,920 bacteria or or a group of bacteria, then that's what's 545 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,680 going to be predominant in your microbiome. 546 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:15,120 Now whether that is a healthier microbiome on that food for in 547 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800 terms because we know that the microbiome is involved in 548 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,320 digestion, it's involved in immunity, it's involved in 549 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,960 mental health, it has this huge effect. 550 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,360 Now we don't know whether this group of bacteria is better than 551 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,200 that group of bacteria is better than that group of bacteria. 552 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,800 We do know that I know that animals fed raw are, are better 553 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,560 off than animals fed with processed pet food beyond, but 554 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,120 it takes a long time for that difference is never actually 555 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,600 noted this this group of raw foods or this group of raw foods 556 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,480 is going to produce different microbiome. 557 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,920 But will that microbiome in response to these foods produce 558 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,320 better outcomes in terms of mental health and so on. 559 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,440 So this is, is a whole area of exploration that we don't really 560 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,240 know the answer to. We can, we can document that 561 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,640 there's a difference, but then we have to correlate those 562 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,560 differences with the outcomes in the animal. 563 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,280 And I don't know that we've, we've got those answers yet. 564 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:23,320 We can speculate on them. So what I do accept is the 565 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,400 probability that when we feed and, and we're watching this 566 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,200 actually happen to animals. Therefore, it's more than a 567 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,880 probability if you feed something like some of the 568 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,720 products that that Rob is now producing, whichever they are, 569 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,800 over time, the outcomes in the animals improves. 570 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,720 And this is no matter what they're eating. 571 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,320 Why does it improve? Well, they're they're they're 572 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,160 big questions. But the fact that it does just 573 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,480 illustrates the importance of feeding food that mimics the 574 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,280 evolutionary situation. And the other thing is that take 575 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,560 humans, for example. Humans living in different 576 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,840 climates around the world eat different foods, but their 577 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,480 health depends upon them eating a broad range of the foods, 578 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,600 local foods in season that have been there and and been 579 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,240 nourishing that that particular population for a long time. 580 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,560 So for example, the Inuits in the frozen N, they are very be a 581 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,480 ketogenic diet. I suspect very, very much a 582 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,920 ketogenic may maybe not because there's still a fair bit of 583 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,720 protein, but there's a lot of fat in it. 584 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720 I would think that would be a fairly pretty well a ketogenic 585 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,320 diet, but very high in fat, moderately high in protein, very 586 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,960 low, almost 0 carbs. Now those people transferred to 587 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,640 the Western diet rapidly developed cardiovascular disease 588 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,400 rapidly because their bodies have been changed to eat a 589 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,920 different sort of food. But keeping in mind they would 590 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,920 probably do, but we don't really know if they transferred to a 591 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,040 healthy, say, tropical food. If they were transferred to the 592 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,400 tropics. I don't know whether that's ever 593 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,320 been done or looked at, but because what we find is that 594 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,719 people who just eat raw or or Whole Foods, not necessarily 595 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,679 raw, but a lot of raw foods and Whole Foods in season and local 596 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,239 are generally well, far healthier than somebody being 597 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,440 fed the standard American. We could put SAD diet, the SAD 598 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,320 diet, standard American or Standard Australian diet, 599 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,600 whatever you like, causes so much ill health and we can all 600 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,040 attest to that even even over brief periods of time. 601 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,600 So it's not the same. It's not the same set of foods 602 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,159 that any animal eats. I mean, the humans and the dogs, 603 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,880 for example, they, they coexist together because we're so 604 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,000 adaptable. We can move to a different 605 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,000 climate, eat the foods of that area and be healthy, move to 606 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,960 another climate and still be healthy. 607 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,719 Different set of foods, probably a different microbiome, but 608 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,640 still functioning to create immunity, good immunity, good 609 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,480 digestion and good mental health. 610 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,320 It's, it's a huge, this is something that we, we may never 611 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,520 figure out because this is something that's been honed over 612 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,120 millions of years by evolution or billions of years actually 613 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,520 starting way back in the primordial is, if I can put it 614 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,840 that way, with organisms that were not, they're called what 615 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,520 they were called prokaryotes. And these these prokaryotes were 616 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,280 organisms that didn't have mitochondria. 617 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560 They remained single cells. In fact, they remained immortal. 618 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,200 And it wasn't until one of these was an Archaea was as as a 619 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:40,360 prokaryote had a, an Organism that was a parasite invaded and 620 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,280 then instead of the parasite becoming its enemy, became its 621 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,560 friend. No, it was about over about a a 622 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,080 billion years they formed this relationship, which then allowed 623 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,320 these modern cells that could form multicellular animals to 624 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,840 form so-called eukaryotes because those organisms that 625 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,240 were parasites became the mitochondria of today. 626 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:07,880 And we have this relationship, but all of these things that 627 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,600 allow us to function so brilliantly have taken literally 628 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,640 billions of years to evolve and and for us to understand that we 629 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,640 don't have the computing power to even begin to understand it. 630 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,920 And to simplistically then say I can produce a dog for this 631 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,600 complete and balanced with X number of nutrients. 632 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,200 And that's it. That it is so sublimely ignorant 633 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,080 of real science. I appreciate that viewpoint so 634 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,120 much from where where you started out saying that, but 635 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,080 what is the health outcome of these dogs? 636 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:47,440 Like that ultimately is the most important data point that 637 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,520 oftentimes is being overlooked in the name of look at this cool 638 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,680 new thing we figured out or like that we want to talk about 639 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,760 because gut health is the the thing that everybody's talking 640 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,000 about now is, you know, how healthy is your pet's gut, 641 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,840 which, which. We just discovered. 642 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,120 Yeah. I mean, which isn't a bad 643 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:15,040 conversation to be having, but as you said, like, OK, at the 644 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,000 end of the day, what is the health outcome of that animal? 645 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,160 That is the most important data point. 646 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,520 So I appreciate that very much. I would like to switch gears 647 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,920 just a little bit back to raw feeding and your experience in 648 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,160 raw feeding because you have a new puppy. 649 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,600 And one of the things that I see with a lot of people in the 650 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:42,920 space I occupy on social media saying that, OK, it is just more 651 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,520 difficult to feed a puppy. We have to be more precise while 652 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,920 they're in their puppy stages, feed them a commercial complete 653 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,640 and balanced. And then once they get closer to 654 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,120 adult, then we can transition them into, you know, a DIY raw. 655 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,520 And I'm, I would be willing to bet anything your answer to that 656 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,160 is no, it's not that hard. It's not that complicated. 657 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,800 A puppy tells us what to do. Yeah. 658 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,760 We have available, she's only a little thing like she has grown 659 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,280 in the last three or four weeks. We've had a probably double to 660 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840 the weight, but I never think about how much or what 661 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,480 particularly we're going to feed because we have available what I 662 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,560 call bath patties now. We also have a cat at the 663 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,080 moment. Now the the particular ones, 664 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,680 when I make bath paddies, they're always different, 665 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,800 depends on what I can find, but they always contain some organ 666 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,720 meat, usually liver, kidney at heart. 667 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:42,160 At very minimum they might contain some pork strips which 668 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,600 are very fatty, some beef, some kangaroo, lots of chicken wings 669 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,160 which are a great source of bone marrow, endless material, skin, 670 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,320 fat, bones, cartilage, chicken eggs. 671 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,400 Throw in some kelp. Some eggs, maybe some yogurt. 672 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,720 We can't get gussies gut in Australia sadly, so I can't use 673 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,440 that. But that's so all of those 674 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,240 things go in and it changes every time I make it. 675 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,920 Depending on what we can find, often on the price of the 676 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,960 materials. It's that and chicken wings and 677 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,480 maybe just some straight beef mince, whatever, whatever. 678 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,000 We have a little bit of leftovers to make her happy. 679 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,200 Some cheese, some as a trade often. 680 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,840 Usually that some liver treats. OK, so get up in the morning. 681 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,800 Look, there's some, there's some bath here. 682 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,720 It's, it's, it's the, the Paddy stuff. 683 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,440 It's, it's thawed out. Give her that for goodness 684 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,000 sakes. She's absolutely ravenous. 685 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,200 I was going to give that to Kat. Doesn't matter, give it to her. 686 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,080 So she walks it down. I'm still hungry. 687 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,280 I have a piece of a chicken wing. 688 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,560 I've got a joint of the chicken wing. 689 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,240 So she walks that. Down later. 690 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,200 On in the day we might just give her some milk and egg. 691 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,080 So we've got a egg yolk. I don't think the whites at this 692 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,160 day, it's just an egg yolk we've mixed in with some milk. 693 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,280 And sometimes she hasn't and sometimes not. 694 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,920 Gosh, the peers are looking a bit sloppy. 695 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,560 I think it was those those liver treats. 696 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,720 Ease back on that for a bit and just fill her up more with some 697 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,480 chicken wings for a few days. It's you don't think about it or 698 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:18,960 I don't think about it particularly. 699 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,480 We just do. It's in our mind that yes, she 700 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,600 needs chicken wings, by the way, or a raw meaty bone of that 701 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,720 nature from a young animal or a chicken neck. 702 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,480 It's almost a completely balanced food combined with what 703 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920 goes on in the gut with the microbiome because they produce 704 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,640 a lot of the B vitamins that might not be there. 705 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,040 The vitamin cut, I'm not giving her any Omega threes of any 706 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,800 kind. She's growing beautifully. 707 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,520 Her brain is beautiful. She's picking up the essential 708 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,520 fatty acids from the food she's being fed. 709 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,720 She's picking up the protein that she requires her. 710 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,680 Body is just working. With this food, raw food, whole 711 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,480 food, and when she's hungry and, and she asks for more, we give 712 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,160 her a bit more probably. Sometimes she gets overfed and 713 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,480 she just goes off and goes to sleep. 714 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,000 Sometimes she still remains hungry, but we just go out and 715 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,240 play. It is just a natural organic 716 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,720 relationship between us. The food that we know about that 717 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:21,720 that contains the things that dogs require and this puppy and. 718 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,160 That's the way you do. It it really is simple. 719 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,320 We don't think about it because it's it's just an idea in the 720 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,200 back of our heads. Yes, she requires that Yes, she 721 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,840 requires that. She doesn't require an all meat 722 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,840 diet. She. 723 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,240 Doesn't require chicken. And rice. 724 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:42,240 She requires something that very closely mimics over time what an 725 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,280 animal a puppy in the wild might have. 726 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,960 Think about puppies in the wild. Once they've been released from 727 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,360 their mum's care they they literally become real scavengers 728 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,080 and the bottom of the pecking order and they have to fight and 729 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,720 scavenge for whatever they can get. 730 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,760 So they they grow hung. They grow up hungry and 731 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,680 relatively lean. A lot of little bones and 732 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,120 leftover cartilage from stuff that the adults said. 733 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,440 Oh well I'll eat the better pits like the the nice protein and 734 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,160 they might have to scavenge the gut contents. 735 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,960 Fermented food from from the kilt, all that. 736 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,200 Sort of thing, but. I mean, I, I put it down. 737 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,800 I, I, I work it out for people. OK, so for a puppy, again, it's 738 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,920 around it, it's, it's the same diet, 60% raw meaty bones, 15% 739 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,920 off or 15% veg, 10% those other things that I've spoken of 740 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,200 listed out in, in the books and in the course that you just saw. 741 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:38,280 And then it becomes natural, once you understand these basic 742 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,360 principles, just to do that. As long as you know that it 743 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,600 should be raw, it should. Contain these. 744 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,520 Elements. Overall, it's a no. 745 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,640 Brainer. Dogs have eaten its way for 746 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,320 millions and millions of years. Nobody, nothing has ever. 747 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,600 There's been nobody out there with a white coat and a computer 748 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,760 with a spreadsheet saying, oh, it's too much of that rabbit to 749 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,320 get that out of your life. You know, doesn't happen as long 750 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,480 as you're feeding the real food in approximate evolutionary 751 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,800 balance cannot go wrong. You cannot. 752 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,160 So you mentioned. That you're not adding omegas. 753 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,560 And that made me think about one of the things. 754 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,640 That. I'm sorry but. 755 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,480 But you don't have to if you Yeah, if you're thinking a broad 756 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,360 range of foods. It made me think about. 757 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:40,040 One of the things that my peers and I often talk about where a 758 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,520 lot of the food in the US and I would imagine it's pretty 759 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,600 similar in Australia, you know? Developed. 760 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,600 Countries. Industrialized countries A lot. 761 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:56,920 Of the food. In our food supply is not as 762 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:03,560 nutritional as it used to be even eighty, 100 years ago and 763 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:04,400 so. When? 764 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,840 When we do look at spreadsheeting or using, you 765 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,360 know, calculators to try to get to these AFCO requirements, we 766 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,360 find that sourcing higher quality foods, especially animal 767 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,320 foods and then local produce where it's not, you know, 768 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,240 traveling forever and and the nutrition is degrading through 769 00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:32,800 all of this travel. We can get much better numbers 770 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,840 by feeding higher. What sort of numbers you're 771 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,720 talking? About what sort of else the 772 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,240 numbers like if we're trying? To meet like AFCO requirements 773 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:43,240 type things but you get better numbers that. 774 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:47,160 Equilibrate to AFCO requirements right which we. 775 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,640 Already established isn't great, but. 776 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,640 But it I mean. They they are irrelevant. 777 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,880 They are 100% irrelevant to raw feeding so long as you're 778 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,920 feeding the right foods in evolutionary balance, because 779 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:07,040 the body will pick and take out a real food what it requires. 780 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,960 So even if that real food has lower levels of what it 781 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,200 requires, that animal could not have survived if it didn't have 782 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,800 those elements already within the food. 783 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,760 OK, Yeah. So they're there in a. 784 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:25,920 Form that interacts precisely. It's a absolute lock and key 785 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,080 mechanism with what that animal requires. 786 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,480 The only caveat to that is if this food that that that is 787 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,920 maybe supermarket grade and not biodynamic organic. 788 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,400 If that food has high levels of some form of toxin, that's where 789 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,960 the problem lies. Not with the quality of the food 790 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,600 because the dog will take whatever. 791 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,000 That's my experience. You can use, you can use 792 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,160 supermarket food so long as it it's a healthy origin. 793 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,480 So what we're really concerned with is not so much the 794 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,880 nutritional balance inherent in that food. 795 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,120 That animal could not have survived. 796 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,360 It didn't have those elements within it. 797 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,280 It wouldn't. It couldn't grow up and be a 798 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,120 healthy animal for the farmer, but the animal. 799 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,000 But so long as. It's raw and whole. 800 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,080 The the growing puppy or the adult can take what it needs. 801 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,840 And that's so that's one reason the puppies don't actually need 802 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,840 anything, but particularly different to adult dogs with the 803 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,720 one exception that they actually require more bones than adult 804 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,960 dog, adult dogs and get away with far less bone in their diet 805 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,080 than the young pup because they're not forming their bones. 806 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,640 They're just simply replacing what what's required. 807 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,720 So they don't need, they don't even need that particular ratio 808 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:49,000 between calcium and phosphorus. I mean, that ratio, all of that 809 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,800 is absolutely swept aside when you feed plenty of raw meaty 810 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,400 bones, no matter what age group you're in. 811 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,040 Just don't feed a deficient level of bones to a young pup. 812 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:03,400 This is this is what's missing the actual real science of 813 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,680 understanding the biology of what is actually going on with 814 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,160 our animals. They don't require AFCO levels, 815 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,720 they just require real food. Because if you feed real food in 816 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,080 an evolutionary balance, they will get everything they need, 817 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,360 even if it's food that is of today's standard, which is of a 818 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,320 lesser standard. But I would then suggest just to 819 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,280 just to be sure, it shouldn't feed a bit of extra kelp and or 820 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,240 alfalfa, which is loosen in Australia the the meal. 821 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:36,800 Because loosen or alfalfa is a plant that sends its roots down 822 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,040 about 40 feet into the deep subsoil where it's never been 823 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,080 eroded and picks up all those micronutrients. 824 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,960 And of course the kelp is in the sea. 825 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,600 All those micronutrients are present and the kelp has them in 826 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,400 it and we don't even have a clue as to how the micronutrients 827 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,840 work. I, I could Bill, I can tell you 828 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,040 one piece of research. Well, it was actually a person 829 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,720 who spent their whole life on this looking at the role of 830 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:08,400 micronutrients and in prevention and treatment of cancer. 831 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,840 So again, we have no idea. But if we feed real food in 832 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:18,280 approximate evolutionary balance, we don't have to think 833 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,080 about anything. All all that rest all the rest 834 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,680 of that. If if you're excuse the 835 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,600 expression is absolute bullshit. So it's it's more. 836 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,920 Important you think, to be avoiding the herbicides and 837 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,240 pesticides and toxins? Yes, that's. 838 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:38,800 Where the problem lies, as long as you're feeding real food and 839 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,000 evolutionary balance, nutritional balance is 840 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:47,000 absolutely fine. Unless unless you had some 841 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,520 reason to believe that there was something deficient. 842 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,280 Now in some areas OK in New Zealand and this has overcome 843 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,320 anyway because they supplement the food and livestock. 844 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,640 But there was in some areas that have has a selenium deficiency 845 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,560 and they got. What's called white muscle? 846 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,480 Disease. Well, then they started making 847 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,000 sure that selenium was out of food and so, but of course those 848 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,640 animals never reached the market with white muscle disease. 849 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,960 They died in parts. Of China. 850 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,960 We have so-called cretins because an absolute deficiency 851 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,360 of iodine, OK. The food that you feed to. 852 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,640 Your dogs and cats today could not have got where it is on a 853 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,960 deficient diet and deficient diet, for example, that the 854 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,480 chickens that we eat again and again, I have to emphasize that 855 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,080 this these things are not a problem when you feed real food 856 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,320 in evolutionary balance and maybe throw in some kilk and or 857 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,560 alfalfa or gluten milk and some some some some sort of probiotic 858 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,080 and or fermented food that's. That's what you need to do. 859 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,320 But it is really a very very simple SO one. 860 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,120 One more little topic if you don't mind, if you have the 861 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,680 time. I find more often than not it is 862 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,920 some sort of traumatic. Incident with a. 863 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,560 Pet that leads people down the road of finding feeding real 864 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,680 food to their pets. So oftentimes they're in a 865 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,680 situation where their pet has been diagnosed with some disease 866 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:27,240 disorder and their vet is of course recommending a veterinary 867 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:32,280 or prescription pet food. And this pet parent is now like, 868 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,240 but I, they're then scared. They are finding fresh feeding 869 00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:41,000 and they're like, I want to do this, but they're scared because 870 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,360 as we talked about earlier, their veterinarian is saying 871 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,960 this is what you have to feed your pet now, like you can't. 872 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,080 So I, I mean, I, I feel like I know what you're going to say, 873 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,280 but I just want to address it for anybody who is out there, 874 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,520 what your thoughts are around that topic. 875 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,560 It's very difficult to put a figure on it, but. 876 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,160 Let's say it's 80 or 90% of animals with whatever disease 877 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,640 you care to mention and and it quite often at a quite advanced 878 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,840 stage, shift them to real food and over a period of months it 879 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,320 just quietly disappears. Now occasionally there are some 880 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:19,640 diseases that actually require quite a severe modification of 881 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,760 even the raw food diet and that may include any of these things 882 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,160 like euro lifts. So you might need to fit if the 883 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:34,960 euro lift, which is a bladder stone develops in say a diet 884 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,760 with a acid pH and you have to do something to make it more 885 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,560 alkaline and also remove any elements that might actually 886 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,960 contribute to the high level of stone forming elements within 887 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,840 that diet. And that's only maybe the other. 888 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,280 One other very common example is kidney failure. 889 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:54,960 Now in. Kidney failure. 890 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,720 We have a. Situation where the kidneys, 891 00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,400 because the nephrons, the glomeruli are no longer around 892 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,040 about 75 to 85% or even higher functional, it's not able to 893 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,200 carry out a lot of the IT. It can't get rid of nitrogenous 894 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:16,920 waste which come from protein. So you have to lower the protein 895 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,600 or do something to get rid of those nitrogenous waste. 896 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,920 Now the simple basis of the protein, oh sorry, the kidney 897 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,280 failure diet that I've been using for years is simply to 898 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,480 increase the amount of low glycemic index vegetable 899 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:37,000 material in the diet. So you find this is just a 900 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,200 matter of increasing fibre. From local. 901 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,480 Well it doesn't have to be, but ideally local and seasonal low 902 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,680 glycemic index foods, so not starchy foods. 903 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,480 Basically anything that's vegetable. 904 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:56,800 Highly coloured, preferably above ground basically, although 905 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,720 it can include a bit of carrots. But basically above ground, low 906 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,640 glycemic index, non starchy foods. 907 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,760 Put through a juice, then recombine the juice in the pulp. 908 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,520 Now the vegetables have a cellulose cell wall, so the dog 909 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,080 cannot digest them. But the bacteria once you 910 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,640 release that cellulose cell well to be available to the bacteria 911 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,040 is now becomes a prebiotic which is fermented. 912 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,160 All the contents of the cell, the enzymes, the proteins, 913 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,360 vitamins, everything now becomes available for digestion to the 914 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,800 animal. This is the only way that 915 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,640 vegetables can become truly useful to a dog and all from the 916 00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:39,400 as fermented the way the animals in the room and of an animal and 917 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,520 we're trying to mimic that. The way we mimic that is to not 918 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,760 so much the fermentation, but the breaking down by a herbivore 919 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,440 is to put it through a juicer. This is this was all described 920 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,800 in Gibby dog a bone years ago put it through a juicer, 921 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,840 recombine the juice in the pulp. Now what happens all that 922 00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,080 wonderful juice is fully nutritious, full of 923 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,200 phytochemicals, vitamins, whatever. 924 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,680 We don't really know. It doesn't matter. 925 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,760 And you have the fibre. The fibre gets to the large 926 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,480 bowel and is broken down by the bacteria into short chain fatty 927 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,120 acids which now feed those bacteria. 928 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,640 Those bacteria start to grow but they need a source of nitrogen 929 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,760 to produce their own protein. Where do they get it from? 930 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,240 Well, that's those short chain fatty acids have increased the 931 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,680 thickness of the bowel wall. They've increased the blood 932 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,200 vessels coming to that bowel wall. 933 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,840 In other words, they've started to nourish the body and those 934 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,000 bacteria take the nitrogenous wastes out of that blood and 935 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,880 convert it to their own protein. So we have a situation with a 936 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,720 large bowel, at least in terms of a limiting eliminating 937 00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:51,120 nitrogenous wastes from the body is acting like a third kidney. 938 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,360 And this is this is the simple physiological basis of the 939 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,880 kidney diet. And you can titrate this level 940 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,520 of vegetables that you put in the diet. 941 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,840 In other words, if you are overdone chemistry, you know, 942 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,440 titration is a matter of adding something, something else until 943 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,880 you get a specific change. So the specific change we're 944 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,560 looking for is a reduction in things like SDMABUN creatinine 945 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,520 as measurements that we would make as you increase the level 946 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,760 of vegetable material in the diet to the required level. 947 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,400 Now, because you're feeding real food, you can reduce that 948 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,200 protein quite substantially in the food because all of the food 949 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,200 you're feeding is high in essential amino acids. 950 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,520 So you so this whole thing just works together beautifully. 951 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,200 It produces a complete and balanced diet that is actually 952 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,440 able to help eliminate the nitrogenous waste from the 953 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,720 bloodstream and bypass the kidneys. 954 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,680 But at the same time, something else is happening because you're 955 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,920 feeding real food. And most of these dogs were 956 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,160 previously on a kidney, kidney destroying commercial diet, 957 00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,160 which is what it what it is. The body now starts to repair. 958 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:06,640 And over time, it actually gets better in many ways, including 959 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:13,040 kidney function over time. Again, real food is very 960 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,040 restorative. Oops. 961 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,200 OK, so Doctor Billinghurst. Lost his Internet connection but 962 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,040 we had such a great chat. I want to say thank you to him 963 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,080 for being here, for giving me his time. 964 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,360 It was, it was amazing to get to talk to Doctor B all about raw 965 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,600 feeding for dogs and cats and getting into the nitty gritty of 966 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:39,560 some of the more asked questions, especially where raw 967 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,720 feeding is concerned. If you haven't looked into 968 00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:46,200 Billinghurst, the Billinghurst Institute, I will make sure that 969 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,640 that link is in the show notes. I took the pet professional 970 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,040 course and there's also a pet parent course. 971 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,720 I think one of the things that I want to say about it is that 972 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,880 after taking other certification courses, after getting other 973 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,480 nutrition certifications, I felt overwhelmed. 974 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,840 Not in a sense that I couldn't do it. 975 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,960 I know I'm a very capable person, but in a sense that 976 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,080 like, gosh, why does it have to be so hard to feed our dogs and 977 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,240 cats? And it isn't and it shouldn't 978 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,400 be. And that's the one thing above 979 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,000 all else that Doctor Billinghurst gave me through the 980 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,400 Billinghurst Institute is that it is not, and it should not be 981 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,560 difficult to feed our dogs and cats. 982 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,960 A little more so for cats than dogs, being that cats are 983 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,280 obligate carnivores. But the reality is that, and, 984 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,080 and I know I've said this before, I may have even said it 985 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:47,680 earlier in the episode, the most research into nutrition has been 986 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,120 done on humans, dogs and cats. The sickest animals on the 987 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,360 planet are humans, dogs and cats. 988 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,040 It should. Not be as hard as we're. 989 00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,680 Making it, we are, we are harming our pets and ourselves 990 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,240 sometimes with how hard we're making this when it should not 991 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,280 be hard. All we have to do, my cat is 992 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:11,560 going to interrupt me. All we need to do is look at how 993 00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,200 these animals eat in the wild. And yes, can we improve on that? 994 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,920 Absolutely, and we should. But it is not the end all be all 995 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,600 we can. Sorry my cat. 996 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,240 If you're watching the video, you're seeing my my cat 997 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,920 continually try to walk on my computer screen. 998 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,680 But it should not be difficult. It can and should be easy. 999 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,400 Granted, if your dog or cat is sick, there are a lot of other 1000 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,200 things that we do need to take into account. 1001 00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,320 Which is why I still recommend working with a nutritionist. 1002 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,480 Doesn't have to be me, can be me. 1003 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,520 I'm happy to help if I have the bandwidth at the time that you 1004 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,360 need that you're listening to this and need help. 1005 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,160 But anyway, I will put a link in the in the show notes to 1006 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,600 Billinghurst Institute. There is a pet parent course. 1007 00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,080 You don't necessarily have to take the pet professional 1008 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,880 course. It's like they keep adding to 1009 00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,440 it. It's like I don't even know what 1010 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,160 it's at now, like 50 hours of video. 1011 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,920 It's a lot, but it is so, so beneficial. 1012 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,120 The pet parent course is obviously not going to be as 1013 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,400 much, but still get you. I think where you need to go as 1014 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,920 far as like if you are doing a DIY raw especially and you're 1015 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,800 just feeling really overwhelmed, this can help alleviate the 1016 00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,400 overwhelm for you. Of course, Dr. Billinghurst is 1017 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,040 known as the father of raw feeding. 1018 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,760 I just, I'm, I'm so excited for what he has coming up next. 1019 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,640 I want to give him another thank you and thank you the pet 1020 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,040 parents listening today. I appreciate you for being here. 1021 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,000 Please reach out to me on Instagram if you have any 1022 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,320 comments or questions. I am always happy to talk to you 1023 00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,520 and answer you as best I can. Obviously I'm only one person, 1024 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,880 but I'm here. For you guys, so. 1025 00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,680 With that, I will talk to you soon. 1026 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,280 Please give your pets some extra love from me and from Doctor 1027 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,920 Billinghurst this week and I will talk to you later.