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I will say when it comes to box 
turtle eggs, they seem to be a 

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little bit more delicate. 
You know, they've got softer 

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shells. 
In my opinion, a tortoise, if 

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you get a little too wet, it'll 
be OK. 

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If you get a little too dry, it 
tends to be OK. 

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Box turtles, if you get them a 
little wet or you get them a 

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little dry, they'll either 
shrivel up while they're mold 

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over. 
So kind of have to find that 

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sweet spot. 
I'm Wendy Montroy and this is 

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Turtle Tea with TTPG. 
Thank you Cameron Lamb for 

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joining me again. 
Today we're going to talk about 

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breeding 3 toed box turtles and 
we'll go over everything you 

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need to know from egg laying to 
hatchling care. 

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In our last episode, we covered 
their care and husbandry. 

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To start off, do you think this 
species needs to be bred, born 

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captivity or are they kind of 
overly abundant? 

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What's what's your thoughts on 
that? 

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I, I think they need to be 
produced heavily just about all 

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species of, of turtles and 
tortoises. 

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I could, I could say the same, 
but these guys specifically, 

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they, they, they're under a lot 
of pressure. 

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So I I think so. 
OK good to know. 

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When are they mature enough to 
lay eggs? 

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Is it age based or size based? 
I think it's a little bit of 

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both. 
I would say size probably is 

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more important. 
Typically 3 1/2 to 5 maybe even 

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six years is is about the time 
frame it takes for you to get a 

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juvenile to small adult sized 
box turtle. 

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After that you know they they 
produce pretty regularly. 

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After that bigger females will 
definitely lay more more eggs 

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and more often. 
But I think that five to 

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seven-year time frame is is 
pretty important for just the 

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growth of the M1 to get to 
proper size. 

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OK. 
And you, how's your animals in 

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groups, right? 
Are you keeping them separate 

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until a certain age or are they 
kind of coming up in groups and 

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growing up? 
I, I try to raise them in groups

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of, you know, two or three hold 
backs. 

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For example, I've got a couple 
box turtles. 

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Once the weather warms up, I'll 
be, I'll be moving them outside 

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just to, to, to give them 
companionship of some sort. 

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They probably don't need it, but
I, I enjoy raising a couple of 

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them up at a time together. 
I feel like they'll, they learn 

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a lot from each other. 
They, they're a little bit more 

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keen to want to eat food items 
that you make available to them.

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They see each other eating and 
they're like, hey, that looks 

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pretty good. 
I think I want some of that. 

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So I prefer to raise them in 
small individual groups. 

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And then as they get older, I, I
introduced them to my adult 

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breeding colony, you know, 10 to
13 animals. 

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OK so how many eggs do you 
usually get per clutch and do 

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they multi clutch? 
So you typically can get 2 

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clutches a year. 
I've heard of some getting 3. 

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From the small size you might 
only get one or two eggs. 

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On the larger size you can 
probably get 5-6, maybe even 

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seven eggs. 3 to 5 is about 
average. 

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I typically don't see too many 
more than that or too many less 

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than that. 
So that's twice a year. 

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So one female can give you 
anywhere from 6 to 10 babies a 

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year. 
Wow. 

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Can you describe how you set 
them up for incubation? 

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Yes, I I don't really do 
anything different as far as 

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incubation than I do for all of 
my turtles and tortoises. 

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I damped for Mickey Light in a 
small deli container that I 

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throw into the incubator for 
roughly 70 days. 

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I will say when it comes to 
boxed turtle eggs, they seem to 

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be a little bit more delicate. 
You know, they've got softer 

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shells. 
In my opinion, a tortoise, if 

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you get a little too wet, it'll 
be OK. 

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00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,520
If you get a little too dry, it 
tends to be OK. 

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Box turtles, if you get them a 
little wet or you get them a 

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little dry, they'll either 
shrivel up while they're mold 

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over. 
So kind of have to find that 

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sweet spot. 
Sometimes it takes adjusting the

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container a little bit, letting 
it out, letting it dry out. 

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Sometimes halfway through any 
incubation you might need to add

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a little bit more water. 
If you keep an eye on your eggs,

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they'll kind of tell you what 
they're they're doing, you know,

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See an egg start to split or 
grow droplets of water on it. 

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It's generally not a good sign, 
especially if it's early on in 

81
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incubation. 
Are you looking for a target 

82
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humidity or are you just kind of
eyeball and and going from that?

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Honestly, I just eyeball it. 
I don't, I don't get very 

84
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detailed in the, in the number 
of humidity or the, the I'm like

85
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the word, the, the amount of 
humidity. 

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It's not something I typically 
measure. 

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Just kind of look at the eyes, I
look at the eggs and let them 

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tell you what they're thinking. 
OK, are they temperature sex 

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00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,800
dependent? 
Yeah, most of your, your box 

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00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,600
turtles are going to be 
temperature, temperature sex 

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00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,400
determined. 
And on the lower end you're 

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going to get males, you know, 82
to 84 probably going to give you

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males. 
If you incubate more, more than 

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that, 85 to 88, you're probably 
going to get females. 

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Somewhere in between is going to
be 8586 or so. 

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Yeah, pretty pretty standard as 
far as box turtles as a whole. 

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OK. 
And you know right when they 

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hatch, do you leave them in the 
incubator for a while? 

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Yeah. 
So I will typically leave them 

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in there sometimes for the rest 
of the eggs that start hatching 

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out. 
Sometimes if one's popping out 

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early, I'll, I'll pull him out 
just so he doesn't trample on 

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the other eggs and start moving 
things around. 

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But they're usually pretty good 
about, you know, taking the time

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hatching out and kind of sitting
in the corner of the container. 

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You just want to make sure you 
you don't let them come out too 

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early. 
Sometimes if you give them a 

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spike in humidity or a spike in 
temperature towards the end of 

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the incubation, sometimes 
they'll want to hatch a little 

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premature and you'll get babies 
with large yolk SAC attached. 

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And then you have to do a little
bit more special care when that 

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takes place. 
But for the most part, I'll 

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leave them in the containers for
a couple days after the Hatch. 

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Just make sure that yolk fully 
absorbs. 

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They're walking around, they're 
moving around, doing what 

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they're supposed to do. 
And what does your setup look 

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like when they come out of the 
incubator? 

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So the first thing that I'll do 
is I'll put them in shallow 

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water. 
I know that the process the 

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hatches is not easy on any 
animal. 

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And do you typically come out 
thirsty? 

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Do you want to do you want to 
get hydrated again? 

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So also come in a little water, 
shallow water for you know, 1520

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minutes or so. 
After that, I will typically put

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them on moist paper towels. 
I can usually leave them there 

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for about a week, maybe even 
longer, and then they'll get 

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moves to their final enclosure. 
OK. 

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Do you have basking light UV for
the little guys too or? 

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I give them UVI don't give them 
a basking bulb just because the 

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they don't really use it seeing 
they don't like bright lights, 

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especially as babies. 
They don't really like to sit on

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their basketball. 
They don't, at least in my 

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opinion. 
I've I've never seen them really

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utilize a basketball. 
And because they're so small, 

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they dehydrate easy. 
I'm always worried about just 

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overheating them. 
So I, I, I really try not to put

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any, any hot bulbs over the 
enclosure. 

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My my room stays hot enough. 
The reptile room that I keep 

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them in, it's it's in the 80s 
all the time anyway so I'm not 

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I'm not overly worried about 
heat. 

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And do you keep them in groups 
as they're growing up? 

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Yeah, I typically like to raise 
babies and especially new babies

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and then small groups. 
I think they do better. 

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They bounce the kind of bounce 
of ideas back opposite of each 

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other. 
You know, they learn from each 

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other. 
They see how they're moving, 

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seeing how they're they 
interact, especially when it 

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comes to food. 
You see one see something that 

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00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,800
they want to eat and then all of
a sudden all of them want to eat

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that same pre item. 
So I think it helps for them to 

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kind of learn from each other as
they grow. 

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So are they pretty readily into 
food when they're little, or do 

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you have to start them with 
something special? 

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It takes some, I would say for 
babies, it takes them a little 

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while to really develop an 
appetite or the food items that 

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00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,000
I want to feed them. 
If I were to give them shop 

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worms or isopods, small 
crickets, you know, they would 

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eat those all day long no 
problem. 

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They're they're very visual on 
that aspect. 

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They like to see small Gray 
items moving around and they you

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00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,960
typically go for those right 
away. 

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00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,200
I'm a little bit more not lazy, 
but I like to do things a little

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00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,160
bit more streamlined where I can
offer pellets, pelleted food 

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00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,560
items. 
They're just easier, especially 

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when you have a lot of animals. 
So if I can get them on a 

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00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,880
pelleted diet, that typically is
easier for me in the long run. 

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00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,160
I know reptamine pellets get a 
pretty bad Rep is not being the 

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00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,440
most nutritional pellet, but 
I've never found a baby turtle 

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00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,760
to refuse them. 
So I'll usually get them started

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00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,360
on the Reptamine and I'll start 
adding other brands such as 

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00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,560
Zoomed, Aqua Max, Hikhari. 
But once you get them on 

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pellets, they're they'll they'll
eat anything. 

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00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,240
You know, they'll go back to 
food items like worms and 

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00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,880
crickets and then they'll go 
right back to the the pellets no

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00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,920
problem. 
So that's typically how I start 

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00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,280
them off on food. 
So do you start them with the 

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00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,120
pellets rather than live food? 
I don't know if offering them 

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00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,680
live would make them less likely
to take pellets. 

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00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,760
I, it just depends. 
Sometimes I'll offer the pellets

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right away and, and kind of hope
that that takes, but not all of 

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00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,360
them will jump on them right 
away. 

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00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,880
Sometimes I'll put them in 
shallow water and I'll, I'll 

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00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,560
just kind of slowly move the 
pellets around with, you know, 

184
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,880
some forceps or even using like 
an aerator just just to give the

185
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,840
pellets a little bit of a 
movement and encourages them to 

186
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,240
want to eat them a little bit 
more readily. 

187
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,000
OK. 
And you said you moved to adult 

188
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,200
setups outside around age 3 when
they put some size on them. 

189
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,800
Yeah, typically once they get 
around 3 years old, 2 1/2 

190
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,480
sometimes, but I think size is 
more important. 

191
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,720
Typically around 3 inches, 3 1/2
inches then then I feel pretty 

192
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,440
confident that I can put them 
outside, you know, a lot. 

193
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,600
There's a lot of things that 
would love to eat small box 

194
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,120
turtles. 
Luckily where I live I don't 

195
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,920
have a whole lot of predators, 
but as a precaution I just want 

196
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,480
them to be big enough to where 
they can't easily be picked up 

197
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,880
and taken off. 
And you don't want to put a 

198
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,760
small small turtle in an adult's
enclosure because and it can get

199
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,960
bullied. 
Or you know, big big male might 

200
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,120
even eat a small box turtle as a
as a tasty little snack. 

201
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,560
Yeah, when they're little, like 
you have to worry about like 

202
00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:09,120
crows flying away with them 
because they're that small, so. 

203
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,680
Yeah, Oh yeah, you wouldn't even
know. 

204
00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:16,240
Like they just pop in real 
quick, take one and box turtle 

205
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,640
flying in the air. 
We've had juvenile Hawks come 

206
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:24,800
and I are fully grown Greek 
tortoise males, so he couldn't 

207
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,000
take him, but he was like, you 
know, it's moving. 

208
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:34,960
We were like, get out of here. 
I've seen photos of Bobcats with

209
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,280
small turtles in their mouth or 
coyotes with small turtles in 

210
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,760
the mouth. 
Luckily I have a lot of big dogs

211
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,360
that. 
Oh, that helps. 

212
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,880
Yeah, they keep away most of the
predators. 

213
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,360
That's good. 
So if someone wants to start 

214
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,160
breeding the species, where do 
they start? 

215
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,960
Pick up a group of hatchlings, 
like what's available out there.

216
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,120
In, in my opinion, and if 
you're, you're not in a rush, I 

217
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,920
think you should start with 
hatchlings. 

218
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,680
I think you should go through 
that tough phase of a turtle's 

219
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:10,960
life and I think it's going to 
better prepare you for the 

220
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,480
future. 
And if you can take care of a 

221
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,600
baby box turtle and raise it to 
an adult size, then you can 

222
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,720
hatch them out and then take 
care of those offspring. 

223
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,120
Because you know how if you 
start with adult animals and you

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decide to wing it with getting 
some babies that you have no 

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idea how to take care of, I 
think you're just doing a 

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disservice to the the animal. 
I think it's better to start and

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then get through the hard part 
of its life and really learn the

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the history, the Natural History
of the animal and and make sure 

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you understand how to take care 
of it probably from the 

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beginning. 
That makes sense because then 

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you kind of learn all the 
nuances of the species by the 

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time you have babies and you're 
better prepared. 

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Yeah, I, I can't tell you how 
many people I've I've talked to 

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who have hatched babies year 
after year and they just can't 

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keep them alive. 
I was thinking like, well, if, 

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if you know, if you knew how to 
do it from the beginning, you 

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wouldn't have this issue. 
I for example, there's somebody 

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here locally who probably 
hatched 25 or 30 babies this 

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00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,080
year and and not a single one 
survived because they just 

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wasn't confident on how to raise
them so. 

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00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,680
Yeah, and it. 
Takes a little time and energy 

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and to really learn how to raise
them up, but in the beginning 

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you know how and what to expect.
And you're looking at probably, 

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you know, it's not too long. 
It's what, like maybe five years

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before you have babies of your 
own? 

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Yeah, And you can confidently be
proud of the animal that you 

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raised from a little hatchling. 
You know, it's, it's 

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personality. 
You know what it likes, what it 

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00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,960
doesn't like. 
If it's, if it's doing something

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00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,240
weird that may be a sign of 
illness, you, you're probably 

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00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,160
going to pick it up right away. 
You know, if you start with 

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adult animals and you just 
assume that's how they ACT, you 

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00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,920
might at least had animals 
because you didn't know. 

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I always encourage people to 
start from the beginning. 

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00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,000
Yeah, definitely. 
I mean, we had that come up this

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00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,240
week with we have an adult 
Redfoot that we got as an adult 

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00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,360
and she's just so much different
than the babies that we have. 

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Like, you know, she had a 
medical issue and we found it 

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00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,640
pretty quick. 
But had it been one of the 

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babies that like I know them 
inside out and all their 

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00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,040
personality quirks, I would have
known like that like, oh, hey, 

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you're, you're not doing your 
normal routine. 

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Like let's see what's up with 
you. 

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So I think that's really, really
good advice. 

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All right. 
So if you do want to breed, is 

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there a demand for babies of the
species? 

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00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,880
Like are you going to have a 
hard time moving them or what's 

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00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:50,200
the what's the status there? 
I have never had trouble selling

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00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,280
offspring. 
Everybody loves a small, cute 

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box turtle. 
The benefit to the box turtles? 

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00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,480
You don't need a real expensive 
fish tank that's going to get 

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00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,800
nasty full of nasty water that 
you're overfeeding. 

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00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,280
You know, the, besides the 
things that we mentioned 

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00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,800
earlier, as long as you take 
some time into, into 

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consideration in their care, 
they make great pets for those 

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00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,960
willing to put in the time and 
effort. 

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So with that being said, I, I, I
think they're really easy to 

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find homes for. 
They just require a little bit 

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more education. 
As far as like the taking care 

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00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,440
of the little babies? 
Exactly, but I think they make a

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00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,560
lot better pet than a redhead 
slider so they're. 

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00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,080
Usually. 
Really. 

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00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,160
Easy to find homes for. 
If someone is going to keep them

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inside completely, like maybe 
their climate doesn't allow it 

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00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,040
or only allows them to be 
outside part of the year, what 

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00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,880
do you recommend for like an 
indoor setup? 

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00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,800
For like a single box turtle, I 
would probably suggest a like a 

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00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,880
2 by 4 enclosure. 
You can you can probably use 

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00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,000
like a tortoise table style of 
enclosure. 

290
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,040
You know, box turtles do 
appreciate a little bit of room.

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00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,800
They're very active animals. 
If, if you don't give them 

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00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,200
enough room, then they're going 
to be constantly pacing back and

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00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,040
forth. 
So if you have to keep it 

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00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,760
inside, you know, maybe it's 
just for a couple months out of 

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00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,400
the year. 
Just try to give them as much 

296
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,400
room as possible. 
Plenty of visual barriers 

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00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,440
somewhere that they feel secure 
and that they're not going to be

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00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,000
able to escape from. 
OK. 

299
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,680
All right. 
Is there anything that we missed

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00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,480
as far as breeding and hatchling
care? 

301
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,720
No, maybe it maybe the time 
frame is, is when it takes 

302
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,280
place. 
You know, usually they're 

303
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,800
they're waking up in the spring 
and April to July is typically 

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00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,200
where you're going to start 
seeing breeding behaviors. 

305
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,080
And then usually towards the end
of the end of the summer, May to

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00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,640
June, July is when you'll start 
noticing egg laying. 

307
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,280
So I think that's important to 
know just to be able to keep an 

308
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,120
eye out on when to expect eggs. 
OK. 

309
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,520
And your guys are outside year 
round, you don't pull them into 

310
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,160
a fridge to brewmate or 
anything. 

311
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,160
I do not, no, I, I let them. 
I let them experience our our 

312
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:13,040
very frigid Arizona winters. 
So are they, are they dug down 

313
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,400
and just out asleep? 
Or if you have warm days, will 

314
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,960
they come and poke their heads 
out? 

315
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,240
It really varies on the animal. 
Some animals will come out on a 

316
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,800
on a warm winter day, others 
will go down hard and they'll 

317
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,280
dig down and you all see him for
months at a time. 

318
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,840
So it's not consistent. 
Some are a little bit more prone

319
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,680
to waking up and coming out and 
others just are are down for the

320
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,840
count. 
OK, it's good to know that 

321
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,160
there's variation so that you 
don't panic. 

322
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,760
Exactly. 
I think night time temperatures 

323
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,280
are the most important. 
You know, right now it's it's 

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00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,200
getting in the high 40s, low 50s
at night once those night time 

325
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,520
temperatures I think are about 
6570°. 

326
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,200
They're pretty much all going to
be up for the for the year. 

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00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,200
OK, good to know. 
All right, thank you, Cameron so

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00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,040
much for joining me today. 
For our listeners, be sure to 

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00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,280
subscribe so you don't miss our 
next episode. 

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00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,920
If people have questions about 
breeding 3 toed box turtles, 

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00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,840
where's the best place for them 
to find you? 

332
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,040
I'm on pretty much all the 
social media platforms, 

333
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,200
Instagram, Facebook. 
I'm also on the TTPG Facebook 

334
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,160
forum under Cameron Lamb Exotics
as well as my TTPG 

335
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,000
email.cameron@ttpg.org. 
Awesome. 

336
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,800
Thanks again for joining me 
today. 

337
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,720
Thank you for having me. 
Thank you for joining us for 

338
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,320
Turtle Tea with TPG. 
Be sure to subscribe so you 

339
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,840
don't miss out. 
We're brewing up new episodes 

340
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,440
twice a month, every first and 
third Monday. 

341
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000
If you have any questions or 
suggestions for future topics, 

342
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,200
you can reach me at 
wendy@tpg.org or find me on the 

343
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,640
TPG group discussion on 
Facebook. 

344
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,800
For full show notes, 
transcripts, and info about our 

345
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:04,000
guests, visit turtletea.org. 
Until next time, keep learning, 

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00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,360
listening and loving those 
turtles.