Hi, welcome to the latest episode of Mistress Mia's
Dungeon. I'm your Hostess, Mistress Mia,
and you know, today I have a special guest.
I have Kit Bond. That sounds so fucking perky,
doesn't it? Only you.
Only me. All right, So Kit, tell
everyone, how long have you been in the lifestyle?
What's your role? What do you identify as?
So I've been involved since I would say winter of 2016.
So it's been a considerable amount of years and I identify
as a sub leaning more into a slave with my primary partner.
But there are certainly people that know me as a service top.
OK, so we decided we're going to talk about four specific things.
And I know a lot of our listeners, and I'll go ahead and
say that 80% of our listeners are men.
And a lot of things they don't quite get into is the whole
realization that they come to events and they're always afraid
it's going to be a sausage party.
So tell us about that. So I think that there's a few
things, but I suppose we'll limit it to four things today,
yes, that I feel are universally observed in every kink
community. Of course, limiting that from an
American perspective, I've never been to another kink community
in another country. But in America, there are some
specific key issues that I think you can see in every party.
One of the major ones is, is like you mentioned there is what
I think are unrealistic expectations among the male
population or male identifying population in kink party
environments, OK. And I think a lot of that has to
do with the fact that our kink has become more organized.
It's become a commercialized thing where people are seeking
to generate revenue from hosting these parties.
And the reality is in our environments, male presenting
people are the dominant guests at these parties.
They are the majority. Very much has to do with vanilla
society. Those are just societal roles.
And the issue is that when that's the majority and you have
commercialized kink, that's the clientele that you're attempting
to appeal to. And a common complaint among
your male guests in general at your average party is that they
felt like it was a sausage fest in their words.
And that just happens when there's not enough women, or I
suppose single women or passable trans women in their own words,
exist at this party and are floating around that are readily
available for any potential play.
And this is unfair. This is unfair to the organizer.
It's unfair to women that are just attempting to be in a kink
space and have a good time because the onus of the
entertainment is placed on everyone but the men who are
griping about it. They don't realize that women
are the minority because a lot of them are really uncomfortable
coming out as kinky. And you know it comes from a
lifetime being slut shamed I believe.
So that is a common problem. You will see at every party that
it's it's a lot of men you get RSVP ING, it's a lot of men that
you get showing up and there's nothing wrong with men.
Most of my friends are men. I enjoy hanging out with men.
They're great. They're wonderful to hang out
with. But it's very unfair if you're
trying to organize something nice for people and they don't
want to return because they feel like, well, it's just it's all
men, and that's not what I'm here for.
So the Griswolds went to a recent party and when they
walked in to this event, they walked towards the back where
they had an indoor pool and there was three single guys just
there in the room by the pool by themselves naked.
One guy was literally letting his Dick hang off the side of
the pool into the water. And her husband, Ellen's
husband, said, hey, Ellen, why don't you go over and, you know,
just make a move? You know, I'm sure he puts the
shit out there. You know, he wants to get
fucked. And she's like, I want to chase.
I want somebody to, you know, romance me a little bit, you
know, something, right? But I think a lot of these guys
are so open, and they have that expectation.
Like you said, they automatically assume that
everybody is willing to want to have sex at certain events.
And that's why my number one rule on my board is not everyone
wants to fuck you. Yeah.
You know, yeah, it's a good rule to have and you really don't see
that a lot. In a lot of dungeons.
They usually have a rule about how safe word and not touching
things that aren't theirs. That was actually refreshing to
see that as one of the number one.
I'm glad. I'm glad you like that.
No, that I think that's good. I've been to quite a few
dungeons around the US and that that's pretty.
That's pretty novel, yeah. You have that a lot of people
are kind of taken aback by it because they read it and they
laugh at it and they kind of reflect for a second and then
they realize, oh, but you know, I've had men come up to me and
they're like, Mia, I don't get it.
Why? Why am I not with somebody?
Like, why won't somebody fuck me?
And I'm like, because you look like dog shit.
You know, I know I said 4 main issues, but that brings me to
1/5. OK, there you go.
Yeah. You know, because that's
interesting. I think I observed this just
about everywhere. The the other.
The other problem that you probably notice in most
communities in these spaces is that there is implicit consent.
I'm not agreeing with that. I'm saying the mindset of people
who have voiced apprehension about going to another party or
have voiced dissatisfaction with that party have gone in with the
mindset that I'm here, you're here, we're all down to play,
we're all down to fuck. That's what they think.
There is this air of if you're here, there's implicit consent
performer, get the fuck out. Yeah, and that's everywhere.
Yeah, and it's crazy. It's crazy to think.
That it leaves you dissatisfied. It leaves you to because it's an
instant gratification approach. Now, I will say that years ago
we had this one woman and I don't know if you'd met her at
this point, but but she comes out like a big fucking gorilla
and she says, I don't get it, why can't I get laid?
And I'm liking Whoa, maybe because of your personality.
Yeah, yeah, some people with their own worst enemy in that
regard. I'm sorry you're trying to be
very professional with this and I really appreciate that.
I just, you know me, I sometimes I have, you know, zero class.
Yeah, it's all right. We all know it's.
Funny, we all know fucking. Sorry I'm just a little too
sober I guess. I don't think I have any alcohol
in my mini fridge today, but next time we're going to break
out the wine for sure. All right, so tell us your next
dilemma. OK, so this goes back to the
idea that we've now become kind of a consumer society when it
comes to kink. You know, parties are like, you
know, Burger King. You want it your way.
You want to go in, get it fast, leave somewhat satisfied and
hope to God that you don't purge everything you consumed.
Right. So gonna throw up.
Yeah. It's become commercialized, and
it has eroded intimacy. And what leads us to to an that
leads us to another problem. The problem is that you have a
seemingly universal issue with clicks.
They exist. They're everywhere.
Yes, they're in the vanilla world.
Yes. You know, you will not get rid
of them. It's a totally human thing to
happen. But it's a problem in so far as
we're constantly telling people in the kink community we're
open, we're welcoming, you're her fellow weirdo.
You can be weird with us and it's safe.
It's a safe space. But what people don't seem to
realize is that clicks actually erode the safe space
environment. What will commonly happen is a
click will come in and the vibe in the environment has changed,
at least on some level. Yeah, there's a shift.
Right. Yeah, There's some sort of shift
because now you feel like, you know, there's a click in a
specific area. I feel like I can't be there.
Yeah. You know, at risk of being
accused of being in crouching on their space or being in
crouching on even their person. Really.
It changes the dynamic. If you and this click have a
mutual friend, sometimes it could change your decision of
whether or not you want to play at all, because this click is
now there gawking at you and you don't feel safe.
You don't want to play under those conditions.
So I think it's a problem. I think that if we're going to
embrace that we are a community of weirdos wherever in the US we
may be, if we're a community of weirdos, we need to make more of
an effort to break out of our cliques, break out of our
comfort zone the same way we do with weapons of ass destruction.
Yeah, You know, we break out of our comfort for that.
Just. Go and say hi to someone you
don't know and you know. Try to be approachable and try
to have a meaningful conversation with people.
Sticking to your same clique is not going to do anything but
make other people around you feel uncomfortable.
Yeah. You know, you and I had this
discussion, I told you when I went to Europe and I went to
this dungeon and it was more or less, you know, it looked like
an old Chinese restaurant. And they had the buffet in the
corner. And I'm thinking, oh, dim sum
and somebody's getting beat over there.
Man, we're just such hungry bitches.
I'm telling you, you're hungry bitches.
But, you know, it was funny because, you know, I brought my
husband in on a leash and he was dressed as a GIMP, you know,
couldn't see his face, you know, sexy motherfucker with his ass
hanging out. Cute ass.
Anyway, people were staring and nobody came up and like, you
know, welcomed us. And I thought, well, you know,
they don't know us. We're new.
You could tell we're really not very European looking.
I don't know. But it was just really weird.
And then what was funny is they had all the single guys dress in
black bikinis and all these guys are walking around in like the
bathhouse section where you can literally walk through and play
in certain rooms. And they're just like rubbing
their Dicks and staring at me. And I'm like, God have mercy, I
don't speak Dutch right now motherfucker, but quit staring
at me. Yeah.
But it is, it's weird. Nobody wants that vibe of this,
this being the odd man out, you know?
And that's why I always tell everybody, you know, you come to
a party. I don't want the fucking clicks,
you know? Yeah, there's another organizer
here too that feels the same way.
He's he feels like, you know, he wants to bust up clicks.
It's it's time to just, you know, if you're going to be, you
know, presenting as this welcoming part of a community,
then do it. If you want to be, you know, an
exclusive group of people, fine. That's cool, too.
But then don't portray yourself as though you're a welcoming
member of a community that embraces other fellow weirdos.
Absolutely. Why?
Why be duplicitous like that? What is the end goal?
And I mean, that just goes back to, like I said, the
commercialization of kink has eroded intimacy.
And because that intimacy is eroded, this kind of this
awkwardness, no one wants to admit it.
No one wants to admit these parties are awkward.
Yeah, they're awkward because you don't want to be stared at
while someone's touching themselves.
OK, that's just not what you came there.
For it's. Not it's not now if you knew the
person, maybe you might have been comfortable with it.
Maybe you know, but it's these parties are no longer invite
only parties among people that you know that know each other
and are comfortable with each other.
They're now, you know, hey in, you know, RSVP here, pay your
cash at the door, show up, whatever.
And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with those
kind of parties, but it does create less of an intimate, more
of an awkward situation that causes people to click up
because they don't feel safe in an awkward environment.
They feel like, OK, this is an unknown.
I don't understand what's going on.
I don't know these people, I don't know what's going to
happen. But I feel better with my buddy
here. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, it's a totally normal human response.
There's nothing inherently evil about clicks.
It's just it's a self eating snake.
At some point the wheel has to be broken.
So yeah, I do think commercialization of kink is
kind of at the root of that. I'm with you.
So what's the next topic? So still speaking about
commercialization of kink here, it does lead us to another
problem and that is so going back to commercialization of
kink as as something that has brought on a special subset of
problems. As I said before, men are the
majority, you know, for good or bad, indifferent.
It doesn't matter. The fact is they're the
majority. And that brings about the issue
of women being a minority. So it goes without saying that
in most kink communities, you'll probably observe the issue that,
you know, a single woman walks in.
What's the first thing most people do in these communities?
They turn around and just like I want to hound them.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah, that happens everywhere. Fresh meat.
Right. There's a specific reason why
that is. It's because, you know, a lot of
women that come into this are coming in with a partner
already. That's very common.
It's common for people to come in as a couple or even already
as an established closed polycule.
That's common. It's very uncommon to see a
single woman who has made the decision to go from vanilla to
kink and to do this entirely alone.
It's quite uncommon. And what people are thinking is,
oh, she's new, there's some good opportunity here for play.
She's unpartnered, so I won't have any barriers of accessing
her. See, because that's the real
problem. The problem is not anyone's
partnered. The problem is that their
partner is probably in a closed dynamic with them.
And that's common as well. So when they see that there's a
single woman, single women get certain privileges.
They do. We see it all the time.
When you see an event online, sometimes you see gendered
pricing that goes back to men don't want a sausage fest at the
parties, so they incentivize women going in there.
They charge them less to get in. Some of them even get in for
free. So they have agree with that.
No, I, I don't agree with gendered pricing at all.
Yeah. I don't.
Either No, because I think that it creates a situation where a
woman is a commodity. Yeah, and not a person.
You can be a single woman, go into a party and play with no
one. You could be an asexual single
woman, go into a party and play with no one.
Yeah, I've heard of some of our trans friends even be
questioned, you know, what they identify as and what they are
genetically. And it's like, why is it
anyone's business? Right, right.
That is a problem from an organizer's standpoint.
You know, a lot of people consult me about how to start
their groups, their parties, things like this.
So I do, I do fill a lot of advisor roles around the United
States. And so a lot of their their
problem is I want to do gender pricing.
OK, Why? Well, because we have too many
men around here, and I would just want to make sure there's a
good mix of women. OK, that's noble enough.
You want to make sure it's a pretty mixed up group.
There's nothing wrong with that. What are you going to do when
you get a trans person show up? Go.
They can't answer me. Exactly.
They can't answer me, I said. You're definitely not going to
be asking them their gender and arguing with them about which
gender they look like. Yeah, it's insulting.
It's not going to fly. No, it's insulting.
And honestly to me, if a man wants to go to a party, he's
going to pay, you know, 45. He's going to pay 95.
I've even seen them, seen the prices, 1:50 to get into some of
these parties. And I mean, that's the level of
insanity. I don't think that, yeah, I
don't think that that's very fair.
I don't think it's fair. At all, Yeah, no, there should
not be a tax simply for being a man.
And it also doesn't even, it doesn't even fulfill your desire
to have the kind of interactions you want with your people
either, because just because he's showing up as a man doesn't
mean he's not gay. Yeah, he may just want to play
with other men. Absolutely.
Same thing with the single woman that walks up.
Maybe she's lesbian and she doesn't want to play with any of
your male guests. Exactly.
It's a Yeah, it's pretty silly, right?
I'm with you on that. It's so silly.
Just from an organizer perspective, it's a nightmare,
yeah, to do gendered pricing. Yeah, it is.
So a single woman is assumed to be sis and heterosexual and
completely open to playing with other people.
So with those assumptions in mind, we have a problem where
there are some women who figure this out.
They know what they are and they abuse the system.
What I mean is the kind of things that your average man
would do, this single woman gets a pass because she's a
commodity. She's needed at the parties.
Of course, we don't want a sausage fest, right?
We want people to keep paying at the door.
And they're not gonna pay at the door unless they feel
entertained. And they're not entertained when
it's all men. Absolutely.
So you give them a pass. Oh, well, you know, she's, she's
this, she's that. It doesn't matter.
It does not matter. And the same goes for people
that know a special skill like rigging or needlework or fire
playing or anything else that's flashy and interesting to look
at. They're given a pass because
it's part of the entertainment package.
That's wrong. And that is a problem in every
community because now the commercialization of kink is
about turning it from an intimate situation to a circus.
And it's a problem. But it's, like I said, the
biggest problem is that there are women that take advantage of
the system and they think I can get away with anything I want to
because I'm a single woman and no one's going to ban me.
I'll be fucking damned. Oh.
I've banned some bitches, right? Yeah, but.
Because you know, you're more egalitarian when it, when you
look at this kind of thing, because you realize you're not
worth the trouble, not with the trouble.
You cannot just come here and violate people.
You cannot just come here and hit people.
You can't just come here and tell.
People off and get drunk and cause scenes.
Get drunk. Cause scenes, you can't just,
you can't have edge play scenes and be unsafe about it.
You cannot do that just because of your gender and just because
you think you're special A. Lot of special people.
There are no and yeah, that whole entitlement thing that
goes across all gender identities, that's not even it.
But as it stands, organizers have an assumption.
The assumption is you look like a woman, you're probably sis
header a woman. You look single because you
don't have a man on your arm. You're probably going to come in
here and be entertaining to my guests.
You have some liberties that other, my other guests do not
have. I've seen it time and time
again. There's horror stories out there
about how there's like, there's women that will not, they cannot
be banned at all because of what they do, because of who they
are, because of the people they bring.
It's annoying, it's ridiculous. So yes, that is a big problem.
I do think the whole concept when you say sausage fest is,
you know, I've, I have advertised so much like on
singles groups on Facebook, you know, and it's always the guys,
they'll write me, oh, hey, I want to know more information,
you know, and I've had some women, Oh yeah, I want to know
more information. But overall, women are on there.
They comment nasty like, oh, this is disgusting, you know,
adult party. Oh, it's disgusting.
You know, I think there's so many fucking rigid bitches, like
they need to let go the pussy, you know?
You might, yeah. You might find it interesting to
note there is research that has proven that women are far more
judgmental. So judgmental.
Particularly of each other. Yeah, particularly I would
almost venture a, a, a bet with you here.
I would almost propose a bet that women who get into
organizing kink have a harder time than men they do because
they're scrutinized a little more heavier by the minority of
the group that they apparently require for success.
It's it's an uphill battle for women when they're.
Organizing, to be fair. It's an uphill battle for men
who are organizing as well, but for a different reason.
It's assumed that, well, he's a creep.
I'm not going to go to some creep's house, but I don't know.
It's. True.
It's assumed that again, going back to this whole oh, she's a
woman, so she has, you know, she could do no harm.
You're assumed that if you're a female organizer or a woman
presenting organizer, you could do no harm.
You're harmless. What are you gonna do?
You're not a creep. You can't be a creep.
You're a woman. So where do we go from here?
So there is another one that I think is worth talking about, a
really interesting situation in kink communities and what has
made it noteworthy among. If you read legal literature or
if you talk to any attorney that even knows of the BDSM world,
they will comment on how interesting this setting is.
And what makes it very interesting is that there is a
self policing element of it. And So what goes along with that
is certain protocols of safety. Many people for the term
vetting, you know, you vet people coming to your party, you
vet people you want to play with it.
It's just this whole thing because you don't know who's
coming to your door. You don't know what their what
their intent is. All you know is they have told
on themselves that they have some sick and twisted interests.
That's all you know. So we have kind of an A built in
security system. In most community dynamics,
there is propensity to ask for references.
For instance, these references ordinarily are people you've
played with or people you're friends with, sometimes even
organizers themselves that have had no problem with you.
You've gone to their events for years or months and you know
someone asks you. Do you have any references when
you're considering playing with them?
Ordinarily, and I laugh every time I hear this because nobody
realizes that it's security theatre.
I mean, we do this even in the vanilla world.
An employer asks for references who you're going to give the
manager that didn't like you or you're going to ask your Co
worker that was your friend. Yeah, exactly right.
Yeah, you get to pick and choose your references.
Every one of us can find at least three people that likes
us. It doesn't mean anything.
It mean it says nothing about you It says that you found three
people that like you and can say something relatively decent
about you. Very true.
It doesn't mean anything sure there's people that said some
nice things about Ted Bundy and Charles Manson.
He. Was very charming and good
looking. Yeah, smart.
Right. See boom boom boom.
And that made him trustworthy. He's probably your great driver.
I'm sure he was. I'm sure he was a great day,
too. Oh, yeah.
Interesting to talk to, right? You know, you're a goal.
Well, you know they're lost. And I know they're lost.
Yeah, no. Just because somebody's
interesting or charismatic or, you know, they come off as warm
and friendly, it really does not mean.
But this is not a person that will act in the moment.
A lot of the crimes we see in the BDSM community are what's
called crimes of opportunity. That's that goes along with
rape. Rape is described as a crime of
opportunity. That's very true.
Because you wouldn't rape someone in the middle of, you
know you're going to a theme park with them, right?
It's not really a good opportunity.
You're not just going to pull it out right in front of Goofy,
right? You're not.
Now, if you find them passed out on the couch drunk or high and
they're not really dressed or it's very easy to get them out
of their clothes, sure, that's a, you know, to some people
that's a good opportunity. These opportunities vary.
So when these crimes of opportunity in mind, we have a
lot of crimes of opportunity that happen here.
You know, you may accidentally find out somebody's legal name
because somebody spoke freely and didn't think that there was
anyone around to hear it. You, the wrong person, hears
your name, decides to investigate a little bit, finds
out a little bit about you and starts some problems for you or
attempts to blackmail you. That's a crime of opportunity.
But you never would have gotten that out of interviewing them or
talking to their references because no ones ever seen them
do that before. It's it's a crime of
opportunity. It comes at the opportune
moment. So what is the best time you
think a way to vet them better or do you even?
Believe in it. So I'm actually.
Vetting system is overrated. That's a great question.
Yeah, I actually really appreciate that question.
So I'm writing a book on vetting.
OK. And in the premise of it, in the
very beginning, I do caution this is an opinion that if you
read this book and you walk away feeling as though you have not
gained anything reading this book, congratulations.
I've proven my point right. You gained nothing.
Yeah, You gained nothing. And the reason why is because
there really is no solid way to vet someone.
Thank you. I agree.
There's not. You know, we had this lovely
couple. I've known them for a couple
years. They were attending many of the
vents and you know, it was probably into maybe their 10th
event that they had came to. And you know, I'd seen them
before they, you know, they'd bring their their wine or
something. They'd get a little tipsy,
nothing crazy still, you know, very lucid, fun, easygoing
people. And something triggered him at
some point, the husband in this situation, he thought it's going
to be cool just to helicopter my Dick and start touching people
with my Dick. You remember this.
So it's like, and then they wonder why were they banned?
You know, my thing of it is, you know, one of my number what 4 on
my rules is don't get drunk and fucked up.
You know, it's one thing you want to get a little drunk, but
don't get so fucked up that you're going to be stupid and
rubbing your Dick on people. Nobody wants that, you know.
So if they do, they'll let you know.
Yeah, you know. They'll let you know.
There was plenty of women that
night who would have like, oh, sure, rub your Dick on me.
But yeah, it's that kind of shit that we deal with, you know, as
event organizers, you know? Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's kind of a it's it's a joke to me.
It's a joke. You know, you're writing a book
on vetting. You know, I advise a bunch of
freaking people on organization procedures, vetting, risk
management. It's a joke because they can't,
they all you're selling to them is a false sense of control.
You can't control another person's actions.
All you could do is control how you react.
Yeah, OK. All we can do, you know, I think
it's, it's equally noteworthy to mention because it's kind of
funny that when somebody speaks I'll of another dungeon,
typically they'll say, well, that's that place isn't safe.
This happened. That didn't happen.
Oh yeah, it's not safe. Yeah.
Does that sound familiar? Yeah, it sounds familiar.
Yeah, sure they say that, neglecting the fact that they
have the same problem. Yeah, every.
Because everybody has the same. Problem.
They have the same problem because some shit happened over
there too. Yeah.
Why? Because they didn't see it
coming. Yeah, like you.
They said it's all in their own opportunity.
They were friendly, they presented well, they they got
along with everyone you know, up until they didn't.
Yeah, because shit happens. Shit happens.
Yeah. You don't know what their frame
of mind is. I mean, it's it's a joke to
think that you are able to see the future of what someone will
do. And under so many, infinitely
many circumstances, you can't. You can't.
I'm fairly intelligent, you know, I'd say I'm pretty normal,
you know, in terms of behavior. You know, I laugh at the unfunny
jokes that you want me to laugh at.
I shut up when I know you want me to shut up.
You know, whip my genitalia out and touch people, OK?
Big pussy, right So. Big.
It's hanging off the side of the freaking.
Pool people with people, yeah. Hanging off the edge of the
pool, waiting for it to be touched, right?
Sure. No, I mean, I'd say I'm pretty
normal, but something happened. Something happened and it made
me fucking snap. Yeah.
Somebody kept stalking me, harassing me, being there,
clicked to harass me, and then mocked my damn sexual assault
online. You saw a different side of me.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry.
Anyone would lose their fucking mind when they get a certain
red, like a certain like limitation pushed, like you say,
red. And it just doesn't stop, you
know, So you don't know what the person's going to do.
You don't understand the circumstances that will bring
them to it. And you know, your perspective
of whether or not they're safe is laughable because anybody can
be pushed to a certain point. And I think, again, I think
we're so imperfect as people. We are, we, you know, we make
mistakes, we say things and do things a lot of times that might
not be the best, might not be protocol, but you know, what do
you do, right? You know, but to be shunned for
it continuously over and over again, right?
It's relentlessly stupid. That is another problem that
you'll see in every community. There are communities right now,
yeah, that are blowing up over one scandal or another.
They're blowing up. They want people to be banned
over this, that or the other. And they trip over themselves
over the right reasoning. They trip over themselves over
the length of time they trip over themselves about what kind
of sanctions. Should it be a ban?
Should it be suspension? Should it just be just write
1000 word essay online You know what should it be?
They are struggling because of that self policing nature that
communities have. We don't know what to do.
Nobody wants to go to the damn police talking about how you're
at a BDSM event where you know Dave over there swinging his
Dick around and it touched you right?
Like no one wants to. Do this.
OK. And the police and other
authorities really don't even know how to respond.
They can't intervene. They're not mediators, law
enforcers. It is not against the law to
offend someone. It's not against the law to piss
someone off. And the problem is that when
something does happen, they immediately go to his boom band.
Yeah, done. Dare you be imperfect.
How dare you let that level of impropriety into my safe space.
Yeah, you know, it's kind of like I said, like the couple
that I had to ban, I really didn't ban the wife, I banned
the husband. But the simple fact of it is it
wasn't the first time, you know, he'd gotten drunk before, you
know, and it's kind of a repeated offense.
And then it's finally, it's just like, you push me to the limit,
Okay? This is where it yeah, this is
where I draw the line. But, you know, I've heard in
other communities there's always something, you know, I and this
is again, why I think people take BDSM and community so
fucking serious, you know, and they take things so literal, you
know, it's like there's no exceptions to the rule, you
know, it's, it's a little crazy to me, honestly.
It's. You know, I do believe that
there should be consequences for action.
So I'm a firm believer. Absolutely.
Yeah. If karma doesn't get you and the
law doesn't get you, yeah, I'm gonna fucking get you.
That's how I feel. You're not going to violate me
in such a capacity that you practically flaunt it as a badge
of honor. Yeah.
I'm sorry. That's how I am.
I'm not at that point in my life where I have zero respect for
myself. Yeah, OK.
And I don't think anyone should. I think you should stand up for
yourself. I think you have every right to
defend yourself. I think you have a right to have
a voice in the matter. And that's not what happens in
communities. What ends up happening in
communities is that it's like it's just mob rule.
Whoever's the most popular is the story that they believe.
It's the side they believe. And whatever that person wants
is pretty much what goes. What's annoying to me is, you
know, being on the Gulf Coast and there's only so many main
groups and, you know, we've been told by different groups, it's
like, well, if she was vetted with this group and they're good
with her, then we're good with her.
And you know, if we've had problems with her in this group,
then we're definitely going to have problems with her in this
group. So we she can't be accepted in
this group. It's like, Oh my God, what is
this? So that's actually really,
that's a good point you bring up.
Yeah. I mean, like I said, there's
there's numerous problems that are universal in communities.
Yeah, we could not just limit this to four.
No. And you know what, it's for
another day. But you know, overall and it's I
think a lot of times people are power hungry.
Yeah. I think they take there needs to
be some give. And I think that, yeah, there's
too much of A power struggle over a lot of stupid shit.
And a lot of it is political. Oh.
Definitely. A lot of it is OK.
I understand we're all imperfect.
I admit that. I admit my enemy is imperfect
and I can give some concessions with that.
Sure. However, they're particular
imperfection. So in this situation, when
there's, like you said, there's no refutable information, you've
we've sat down and we've talked or talked to people and these
groups or whatever they're, they're non yielding about
anything. You know, nothing.
But here's my thing, you are more than willing to be
receptive to admit where you made mistakes.
And it's not like it was big monumental mistakes in the two
people I've banned this year. They both have come to me in an
e-mail or text message and they've been completely
oblivious, like, oh, what did I possibly do?
What did I possibly do to deserve this?
And it's like, were you too drunk to remember?
Do we need to go back and talk about it?
My thing of it is they had sober people with them.
They remembered what they they did, but when the they don't
want to take any responsibility for their actions.
I think that's where you and I have always had problems, where
people have not been admitting or been humbled by their
experience of what they've done. Wrong.
And sometimes you'll run into that because you know we'll have
difference of opinion. You know your level of of
imperfection of mine, you. And I've been on the same page.
No, no. But I mean you general, Sorry.
What I mean is we will always disagree on, you know, this is
another problem too. Communities need to get together
and talk about what is absolutely not permissible and
what can be, you know, debated, given on a case by case basis.
The problem comes in when you don't communicate those
expectations among people that are involved in your community
and they need to have more town hall meetings about this because
some people just don't know and some people don't understand,
you know, what is the general consensus of what their
community wants. Do we really want a 0 defect
mentality in our communities? I would I would say not.
I think the average person would not want to be permanently
banned for every little infraction they could have ever
committed. But you know there are people
that will not see your perspective no matter what.
No, very true. They will simply say that what
you did is unforgivable. It is never.
It's never OK. I don't care what led up to it.
I don't care what the intent is. I don't care what the fuck you
have to say about it. Yeah, it's the fact that it
happened, Period. Now, in some cases, that works.
Like rape. That works because it doesn't
matter like what she said to you or what he led you to believe or
what you know, what relations you had with them at all.
Rape is never permissible at all.
I do believe permanent bans should be in place for things
like rape, but for literally just about anything else it
really is a case by case basis. Absolutely.
You know, that's just my opinion on it.
It's, I don't believe in permanent bans generally.
I don't believe it. Yeah.
I think that people can learn a lot from taking a significant
amount of time of way. Absolutely.
And things can be forgivable, right?
Yeah, and I think that they need to do better.
The people in the communities around the US need to do better
to understand the perspectives on all sides.
And they don't. They don't.
What they'll typically do is they'll listen to their friends
and people they find credible. I mean, that's that's cherry
picking. Yeah.
That's not a good investigation. Communities love to tell you we
invest, investigate claims, we investigate.
They don't. What they do is they hear from
their friends and people they consider credible.
This goes back to vetting. Just because you think they're
credible doesn't mean they are. I want to hear about some of the
stories in Europe and what they have to deal with in vetting.
Yeah, and dungeons and organizations too.
What I've seen people in the UK are very similar as in the US,
they have similar problems in the way they handle things.
Yeah, just from my friends in the UK, they they describe the
same. It's really, I believe that I've
heard the same thing as well. Well, I think we need to leave
it at that. People need to listen to us on
their lunch breaks. Sure.
Yeah. All right.
Well, thanks for coming in so we can chit chat and figure some
stuff out, put our little pieces of opinion out there.
All right. Well, thanks for joining us.
Yeah. And until then, may all your
fantasies become realities.