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Hi, welcome to the latest 
episode of Mistress Mia's 

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Dungeon. 
I'm your Hostess, Mistress Mia, 

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and you know, today I have a 
special guest. 

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I have Kit Bond. 
That sounds so fucking perky, 

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doesn't it? 
Only you. 

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Only me. 
All right, So Kit, tell 

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everyone, how long have you been
in the lifestyle? 

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What's your role? 
What do you identify as? 

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So I've been involved since I 
would say winter of 2016. 

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So it's been a considerable 
amount of years and I identify 

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as a sub leaning more into a 
slave with my primary partner. 

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But there are certainly people 
that know me as a service top. 

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OK, so we decided we're going to
talk about four specific things.

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And I know a lot of our 
listeners, and I'll go ahead and

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say that 80% of our listeners 
are men. 

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And a lot of things they don't 
quite get into is the whole 

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realization that they come to 
events and they're always afraid

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it's going to be a sausage 
party. 

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So tell us about that. 
So I think that there's a few 

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things, but I suppose we'll 
limit it to four things today, 

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yes, that I feel are universally
observed in every kink 

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community. 
Of course, limiting that from an

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American perspective, I've never
been to another kink community 

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in another country. 
But in America, there are some 

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specific key issues that I think
you can see in every party. 

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One of the major ones is, is 
like you mentioned there is what

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I think are unrealistic 
expectations among the male 

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population or male identifying 
population in kink party 

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environments, OK. 
And I think a lot of that has to

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do with the fact that our kink 
has become more organized. 

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It's become a commercialized 
thing where people are seeking 

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to generate revenue from hosting
these parties. 

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And the reality is in our 
environments, male presenting 

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people are the dominant guests 
at these parties. 

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They are the majority. 
Very much has to do with vanilla

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society. 
Those are just societal roles. 

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And the issue is that when 
that's the majority and you have

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commercialized kink, that's the 
clientele that you're attempting

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to appeal to. 
And a common complaint among 

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your male guests in general at 
your average party is that they 

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felt like it was a sausage fest 
in their words. 

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And that just happens when 
there's not enough women, or I 

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suppose single women or passable
trans women in their own words, 

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exist at this party and are 
floating around that are readily

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available for any potential 
play. 

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And this is unfair. 
This is unfair to the organizer.

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It's unfair to women that are 
just attempting to be in a kink 

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space and have a good time 
because the onus of the 

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entertainment is placed on 
everyone but the men who are 

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griping about it. 
They don't realize that women 

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are the minority because a lot 
of them are really uncomfortable

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coming out as kinky. 
And you know it comes from a 

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lifetime being slut shamed I 
believe. 

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So that is a common problem. 
You will see at every party that

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it's it's a lot of men you get 
RSVP ING, it's a lot of men that

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you get showing up and there's 
nothing wrong with men. 

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Most of my friends are men. 
I enjoy hanging out with men. 

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They're great. 
They're wonderful to hang out 

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with. 
But it's very unfair if you're 

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trying to organize something 
nice for people and they don't 

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want to return because they feel
like, well, it's just it's all 

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men, and that's not what I'm 
here for. 

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So the Griswolds went to a 
recent party and when they 

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walked in to this event, they 
walked towards the back where 

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they had an indoor pool and 
there was three single guys just

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there in the room by the pool by
themselves naked. 

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One guy was literally letting 
his Dick hang off the side of 

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the pool into the water. 
And her husband, Ellen's 

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husband, said, hey, Ellen, why 
don't you go over and, you know,

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just make a move? 
You know, I'm sure he puts the 

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shit out there. 
You know, he wants to get 

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fucked. 
And she's like, I want to chase.

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I want somebody to, you know, 
romance me a little bit, you 

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know, something, right? 
But I think a lot of these guys 

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are so open, and they have that 
expectation. 

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Like you said, they 
automatically assume that 

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everybody is willing to want to 
have sex at certain events. 

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And that's why my number one 
rule on my board is not everyone

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wants to fuck you. 
Yeah. 

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You know, yeah, it's a good rule
to have and you really don't see

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that a lot. 
In a lot of dungeons. 

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They usually have a rule about 
how safe word and not touching 

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things that aren't theirs. 
That was actually refreshing to 

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see that as one of the number 
one. 

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I'm glad. 
I'm glad you like that. 

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No, that I think that's good. 
I've been to quite a few 

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dungeons around the US and that 
that's pretty. 

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That's pretty novel, yeah. 
You have that a lot of people 

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are kind of taken aback by it 
because they read it and they 

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laugh at it and they kind of 
reflect for a second and then 

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they realize, oh, but you know, 
I've had men come up to me and 

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they're like, Mia, I don't get 
it. 

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Why? 
Why am I not with somebody? 

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Like, why won't somebody fuck 
me? 

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And I'm like, because you look 
like dog shit. 

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You know, I know I said 4 main 
issues, but that brings me to 

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1/5. 
OK, there you go. 

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Yeah. 
You know, because that's 

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interesting. 
I think I observed this just 

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about everywhere. 
The the other. 

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The other problem that you 
probably notice in most 

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communities in these spaces is 
that there is implicit consent. 

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I'm not agreeing with that. 
I'm saying the mindset of people

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who have voiced apprehension 
about going to another party or 

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have voiced dissatisfaction with
that party have gone in with the

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mindset that I'm here, you're 
here, we're all down to play, 

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we're all down to fuck. 
That's what they think. 

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There is this air of if you're 
here, there's implicit consent 

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performer, get the fuck out. 
Yeah, and that's everywhere. 

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Yeah, and it's crazy. 
It's crazy to think. 

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That it leaves you dissatisfied.
It leaves you to because it's an

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instant gratification approach. 
Now, I will say that years ago 

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we had this one woman and I 
don't know if you'd met her at 

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this point, but but she comes 
out like a big fucking gorilla 

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and she says, I don't get it, 
why can't I get laid? 

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And I'm liking Whoa, maybe 
because of your personality. 

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Yeah, yeah, some people with 
their own worst enemy in that 

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regard. 
I'm sorry you're trying to be 

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very professional with this and 
I really appreciate that. 

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I just, you know me, I sometimes
I have, you know, zero class. 

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Yeah, it's all right. 
We all know it's. 

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Funny, we all know fucking. 
Sorry I'm just a little too 

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sober I guess. 
I don't think I have any alcohol

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in my mini fridge today, but 
next time we're going to break 

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out the wine for sure. 
All right, so tell us your next 

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dilemma. 
OK, so this goes back to the 

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idea that we've now become kind 
of a consumer society when it 

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comes to kink. 
You know, parties are like, you 

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know, Burger King. 
You want it your way. 

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You want to go in, get it fast, 
leave somewhat satisfied and 

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hope to God that you don't purge
everything you consumed. 

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Right. 
So gonna throw up. 

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Yeah. 
It's become commercialized, and 

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it has eroded intimacy. 
And what leads us to to an that 

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leads us to another problem. 
The problem is that you have a 

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seemingly universal issue with 
clicks. 

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They exist. 
They're everywhere. 

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Yes, they're in the vanilla 
world. 

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Yes. 
You know, you will not get rid 

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of them. 
It's a totally human thing to 

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happen. 
But it's a problem in so far as 

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we're constantly telling people 
in the kink community we're 

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open, we're welcoming, you're 
her fellow weirdo. 

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You can be weird with us and 
it's safe. 

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It's a safe space. 
But what people don't seem to 

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realize is that clicks actually 
erode the safe space 

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environment. 
What will commonly happen is a 

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click will come in and the vibe 
in the environment has changed, 

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at least on some level. 
Yeah, there's a shift. 

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Right. 
Yeah, There's some sort of shift

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because now you feel like, you 
know, there's a click in a 

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specific area. 
I feel like I can't be there. 

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Yeah. 
You know, at risk of being 

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accused of being in crouching on
their space or being in 

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crouching on even their person. 
Really. 

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It changes the dynamic. 
If you and this click have a 

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mutual friend, sometimes it 
could change your decision of 

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whether or not you want to play 
at all, because this click is 

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now there gawking at you and you
don't feel safe. 

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You don't want to play under 
those conditions. 

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So I think it's a problem. 
I think that if we're going to 

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embrace that we are a community 
of weirdos wherever in the US we

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may be, if we're a community of 
weirdos, we need to make more of

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an effort to break out of our 
cliques, break out of our 

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comfort zone the same way we do 
with weapons of ass destruction.

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Yeah, You know, we break out of 
our comfort for that. 

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Just. 
Go and say hi to someone you 

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don't know and you know. 
Try to be approachable and try 

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to have a meaningful 
conversation with people. 

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Sticking to your same clique is 
not going to do anything but 

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make other people around you 
feel uncomfortable. 

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Yeah. 
You know, you and I had this 

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discussion, I told you when I 
went to Europe and I went to 

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this dungeon and it was more or 
less, you know, it looked like 

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an old Chinese restaurant. 
And they had the buffet in the 

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corner. 
And I'm thinking, oh, dim sum 

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and somebody's getting beat over
there. 

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Man, we're just such hungry 
bitches. 

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I'm telling you, you're hungry 
bitches. 

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But, you know, it was funny 
because, you know, I brought my 

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husband in on a leash and he was
dressed as a GIMP, you know, 

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couldn't see his face, you know,
sexy motherfucker with his ass 

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hanging out. 
Cute ass. 

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Anyway, people were staring and 
nobody came up and like, you 

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know, welcomed us. 
And I thought, well, you know, 

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they don't know us. 
We're new. 

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You could tell we're really not 
very European looking. 

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I don't know. 
But it was just really weird. 

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And then what was funny is they 
had all the single guys dress in

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black bikinis and all these guys
are walking around in like the 

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bathhouse section where you can 
literally walk through and play 

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in certain rooms. 
And they're just like rubbing 

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their Dicks and staring at me. 
And I'm like, God have mercy, I 

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don't speak Dutch right now 
motherfucker, but quit staring 

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at me. 
Yeah. 

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But it is, it's weird. 
Nobody wants that vibe of this, 

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this being the odd man out, you 
know? 

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And that's why I always tell 
everybody, you know, you come to

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a party. 
I don't want the fucking clicks,

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you know? 
Yeah, there's another organizer 

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here too that feels the same 
way. 

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He's he feels like, you know, he
wants to bust up clicks. 

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It's it's time to just, you 
know, if you're going to be, you

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know, presenting as this 
welcoming part of a community, 

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then do it. 
If you want to be, you know, an 

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exclusive group of people, fine.
That's cool, too. 

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00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,120
But then don't portray yourself 
as though you're a welcoming 

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member of a community that 
embraces other fellow weirdos. 

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Absolutely. 
Why? 

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Why be duplicitous like that? 
What is the end goal? 

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And I mean, that just goes back 
to, like I said, the 

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commercialization of kink has 
eroded intimacy. 

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And because that intimacy is 
eroded, this kind of this 

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awkwardness, no one wants to 
admit it. 

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No one wants to admit these 
parties are awkward. 

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Yeah, they're awkward because 
you don't want to be stared at 

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while someone's touching 
themselves. 

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OK, that's just not what you 
came there. 

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For it's. 
Not it's not now if you knew the

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person, maybe you might have 
been comfortable with it. 

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00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,760
Maybe you know, but it's these 
parties are no longer invite 

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only parties among people that 
you know that know each other 

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and are comfortable with each 
other. 

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They're now, you know, hey in, 
you know, RSVP here, pay your 

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cash at the door, show up, 
whatever. 

226
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,280
And that's fine. 
There's nothing wrong with those

227
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,040
kind of parties, but it does 
create less of an intimate, more

228
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:14,440
of an awkward situation that 
causes people to click up 

229
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,320
because they don't feel safe in 
an awkward environment. 

230
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,240
They feel like, OK, this is an 
unknown. 

231
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,840
I don't understand what's going 
on. 

232
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,040
I don't know these people, I 
don't know what's going to 

233
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,040
happen. 
But I feel better with my buddy 

234
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,680
here. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

235
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,080
Yeah, it's a totally normal 
human response. 

236
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,320
There's nothing inherently evil 
about clicks. 

237
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,600
It's just it's a self eating 
snake. 

238
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,200
At some point the wheel has to 
be broken. 

239
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,520
So yeah, I do think 
commercialization of kink is 

240
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,680
kind of at the root of that. 
I'm with you. 

241
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,680
So what's the next topic? 
So still speaking about 

242
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,200
commercialization of kink here, 
it does lead us to another 

243
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,800
problem and that is so going 
back to commercialization of 

244
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,320
kink as as something that has 
brought on a special subset of 

245
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,280
problems. 
As I said before, men are the 

246
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,440
majority, you know, for good or 
bad, indifferent. 

247
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,880
It doesn't matter. 
The fact is they're the 

248
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,840
majority. 
And that brings about the issue 

249
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,320
of women being a minority. 
So it goes without saying that 

250
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,520
in most kink communities, you'll
probably observe the issue that,

251
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,240
you know, a single woman walks 
in. 

252
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,480
What's the first thing most 
people do in these communities? 

253
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,720
They turn around and just like I
want to hound them. 

254
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,080
Right. 
Yeah. 

255
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,840
Yeah, that happens everywhere. 
Fresh meat. 

256
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,600
Right. 
There's a specific reason why 

257
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680
that is. 
It's because, you know, a lot of

258
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,760
women that come into this are 
coming in with a partner 

259
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,560
already. 
That's very common. 

260
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,680
It's common for people to come 
in as a couple or even already 

261
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,200
as an established closed 
polycule. 

262
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,960
That's common. 
It's very uncommon to see a 

263
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,920
single woman who has made the 
decision to go from vanilla to 

264
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,160
kink and to do this entirely 
alone. 

265
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,320
It's quite uncommon. 
And what people are thinking is,

266
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,120
oh, she's new, there's some good
opportunity here for play. 

267
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,560
She's unpartnered, so I won't 
have any barriers of accessing 

268
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,040
her. 
See, because that's the real 

269
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,280
problem. 
The problem is not anyone's 

270
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,520
partnered. 
The problem is that their 

271
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,520
partner is probably in a closed 
dynamic with them. 

272
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,840
And that's common as well. 
So when they see that there's a 

273
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,680
single woman, single women get 
certain privileges. 

274
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,520
They do. 
We see it all the time. 

275
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,200
When you see an event online, 
sometimes you see gendered 

276
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:38,720
pricing that goes back to men 
don't want a sausage fest at the

277
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,400
parties, so they incentivize 
women going in there. 

278
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,560
They charge them less to get in.
Some of them even get in for 

279
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,040
free. 
So they have agree with that. 

280
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,040
No, I, I don't agree with 
gendered pricing at all. 

281
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:50,720
Yeah. 
I don't. 

282
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,120
Either No, because I think that 
it creates a situation where a 

283
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,920
woman is a commodity. 
Yeah, and not a person. 

284
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,760
You can be a single woman, go 
into a party and play with no 

285
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,080
one. 
You could be an asexual single 

286
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,560
woman, go into a party and play 
with no one. 

287
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,760
Yeah, I've heard of some of our 
trans friends even be 

288
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,360
questioned, you know, what they 
identify as and what they are 

289
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,440
genetically. 
And it's like, why is it 

290
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,160
anyone's business? 
Right, right. 

291
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,880
That is a problem from an 
organizer's standpoint. 

292
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,360
You know, a lot of people 
consult me about how to start 

293
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,080
their groups, their parties, 
things like this. 

294
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,720
So I do, I do fill a lot of 
advisor roles around the United 

295
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,000
States. 
And so a lot of their their 

296
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,840
problem is I want to do gender 
pricing. 

297
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,520
OK, Why? 
Well, because we have too many 

298
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,520
men around here, and I would 
just want to make sure there's a

299
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,600
good mix of women. 
OK, that's noble enough. 

300
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,800
You want to make sure it's a 
pretty mixed up group. 

301
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,880
There's nothing wrong with that.
What are you going to do when 

302
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,240
you get a trans person show up? 
Go. 

303
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,480
They can't answer me. 
Exactly. 

304
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,080
They can't answer me, I said. 
You're definitely not going to 

305
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,040
be asking them their gender and 
arguing with them about which 

306
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,240
gender they look like. 
Yeah, it's insulting. 

307
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,440
It's not going to fly. 
No, it's insulting. 

308
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,960
And honestly to me, if a man 
wants to go to a party, he's 

309
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,360
going to pay, you know, 45. 
He's going to pay 95. 

310
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,640
I've even seen them, seen the 
prices, 1:50 to get into some of

311
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,560
these parties. 
And I mean, that's the level of 

312
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,880
insanity. 
I don't think that, yeah, I 

313
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,280
don't think that that's very 
fair. 

314
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,480
I don't think it's fair. 
At all, Yeah, no, there should 

315
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,720
not be a tax simply for being a 
man. 

316
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,960
And it also doesn't even, it 
doesn't even fulfill your desire

317
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,680
to have the kind of interactions
you want with your people 

318
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,000
either, because just because 
he's showing up as a man doesn't

319
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,880
mean he's not gay. 
Yeah, he may just want to play 

320
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,320
with other men. 
Absolutely. 

321
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,200
Same thing with the single woman
that walks up. 

322
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,400
Maybe she's lesbian and she 
doesn't want to play with any of

323
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,800
your male guests. 
Exactly. 

324
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,800
It's a Yeah, it's pretty silly, 
right? 

325
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,520
I'm with you on that. 
It's so silly. 

326
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,680
Just from an organizer 
perspective, it's a nightmare, 

327
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,920
yeah, to do gendered pricing. 
Yeah, it is. 

328
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:58,360
So a single woman is assumed to 
be sis and heterosexual and 

329
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:00,640
completely open to playing with 
other people. 

330
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,200
So with those assumptions in 
mind, we have a problem where 

331
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,560
there are some women who figure 
this out. 

332
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,680
They know what they are and they
abuse the system. 

333
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,080
What I mean is the kind of 
things that your average man 

334
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,840
would do, this single woman gets
a pass because she's a 

335
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,560
commodity. 
She's needed at the parties. 

336
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,760
Of course, we don't want a 
sausage fest, right? 

337
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,240
We want people to keep paying at
the door. 

338
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,600
And they're not gonna pay at the
door unless they feel 

339
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,600
entertained. 
And they're not entertained when

340
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,160
it's all men. 
Absolutely. 

341
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:37,560
So you give them a pass. 
Oh, well, you know, she's, she's

342
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,360
this, she's that. 
It doesn't matter. 

343
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,440
It does not matter. 
And the same goes for people 

344
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,880
that know a special skill like 
rigging or needlework or fire 

345
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,640
playing or anything else that's 
flashy and interesting to look 

346
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,280
at. 
They're given a pass because 

347
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,760
it's part of the entertainment 
package. 

348
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,000
That's wrong. 
And that is a problem in every 

349
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,680
community because now the 
commercialization of kink is 

350
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,280
about turning it from an 
intimate situation to a circus. 

351
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,240
And it's a problem. 
But it's, like I said, the 

352
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,480
biggest problem is that there 
are women that take advantage of

353
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,840
the system and they think I can 
get away with anything I want to

354
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,800
because I'm a single woman and 
no one's going to ban me. 

355
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,200
I'll be fucking damned. 
Oh. 

356
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,840
I've banned some bitches, right?
Yeah, but. 

357
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,640
Because you know, you're more 
egalitarian when it, when you 

358
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,920
look at this kind of thing, 
because you realize you're not 

359
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,800
worth the trouble, not with the 
trouble. 

360
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,960
You cannot just come here and 
violate people. 

361
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,480
You cannot just come here and 
hit people. 

362
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:34,720
You can't just come here and 
tell. 

363
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,000
People off and get drunk and 
cause scenes. 

364
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,080
Get drunk. 
Cause scenes, you can't just, 

365
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,160
you can't have edge play scenes 
and be unsafe about it. 

366
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,720
You cannot do that just because 
of your gender and just because 

367
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,680
you think you're special A. 
Lot of special people. 

368
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,400
There are no and yeah, that 
whole entitlement thing that 

369
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,360
goes across all gender 
identities, that's not even it. 

370
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,000
But as it stands, organizers 
have an assumption. 

371
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,120
The assumption is you look like 
a woman, you're probably sis 

372
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,080
header a woman. 
You look single because you 

373
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,360
don't have a man on your arm. 
You're probably going to come in

374
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,080
here and be entertaining to my 
guests. 

375
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,040
You have some liberties that 
other, my other guests do not 

376
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,640
have. 
I've seen it time and time 

377
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,400
again. 
There's horror stories out there

378
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,440
about how there's like, there's 
women that will not, they cannot

379
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,680
be banned at all because of what
they do, because of who they 

380
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,880
are, because of the people they 
bring. 

381
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,280
It's annoying, it's ridiculous. 
So yes, that is a big problem. 

382
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,960
I do think the whole concept 
when you say sausage fest is, 

383
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,080
you know, I've, I have 
advertised so much like on 

384
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,360
singles groups on Facebook, you 
know, and it's always the guys, 

385
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,920
they'll write me, oh, hey, I 
want to know more information, 

386
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,360
you know, and I've had some 
women, Oh yeah, I want to know 

387
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,080
more information. 
But overall, women are on there.

388
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,960
They comment nasty like, oh, 
this is disgusting, you know, 

389
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,800
adult party. 
Oh, it's disgusting. 

390
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,480
You know, I think there's so 
many fucking rigid bitches, like

391
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,840
they need to let go the pussy, 
you know? 

392
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,560
You might, yeah. 
You might find it interesting to

393
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,440
note there is research that has 
proven that women are far more 

394
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,640
judgmental. 
So judgmental. 

395
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,560
Particularly of each other. 
Yeah, particularly I would 

396
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,840
almost venture a, a, a bet with 
you here. 

397
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,080
I would almost propose a bet 
that women who get into 

398
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,680
organizing kink have a harder 
time than men they do because 

399
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,000
they're scrutinized a little 
more heavier by the minority of 

400
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,520
the group that they apparently 
require for success. 

401
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,920
It's it's an uphill battle for 
women when they're. 

402
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,640
Organizing, to be fair. 
It's an uphill battle for men 

403
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,000
who are organizing as well, but 
for a different reason. 

404
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,240
It's assumed that, well, he's a 
creep. 

405
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,040
I'm not going to go to some 
creep's house, but I don't know.

406
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:51,960
It's. 
True. 

407
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,120
It's assumed that again, going 
back to this whole oh, she's a 

408
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:58,240
woman, so she has, you know, she
could do no harm. 

409
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,720
You're assumed that if you're a 
female organizer or a woman 

410
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,920
presenting organizer, you could 
do no harm. 

411
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,320
You're harmless. 
What are you gonna do? 

412
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,600
You're not a creep. 
You can't be a creep. 

413
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,960
You're a woman. 
So where do we go from here? 

414
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,480
So there is another one that I 
think is worth talking about, a 

415
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,400
really interesting situation in 
kink communities and what has 

416
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,520
made it noteworthy among. 
If you read legal literature or 

417
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,160
if you talk to any attorney that
even knows of the BDSM world, 

418
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,600
they will comment on how 
interesting this setting is. 

419
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,880
And what makes it very 
interesting is that there is a 

420
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,680
self policing element of it. 
And So what goes along with that

421
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:46,760
is certain protocols of safety. 
Many people for the term 

422
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,600
vetting, you know, you vet 
people coming to your party, you

423
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,320
vet people you want to play with
it. 

424
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,160
It's just this whole thing 
because you don't know who's 

425
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,160
coming to your door. 
You don't know what their what 

426
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,400
their intent is. 
All you know is they have told 

427
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,200
on themselves that they have 
some sick and twisted interests.

428
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,680
That's all you know. 
So we have kind of an A built in

429
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,000
security system. 
In most community dynamics, 

430
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,720
there is propensity to ask for 
references. 

431
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,120
For instance, these references 
ordinarily are people you've 

432
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:24,400
played with or people you're 
friends with, sometimes even 

433
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,240
organizers themselves that have 
had no problem with you. 

434
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:32,280
You've gone to their events for 
years or months and you know 

435
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,760
someone asks you. 
Do you have any references when 

436
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,040
you're considering playing with 
them? 

437
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:43,960
Ordinarily, and I laugh every 
time I hear this because nobody 

438
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,240
realizes that it's security 
theatre. 

439
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,120
I mean, we do this even in the 
vanilla world. 

440
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,680
An employer asks for references 
who you're going to give the 

441
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,020
manager that didn't like you or 
you're going to ask your Co 

442
00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:56,800
worker that was your friend. 
Yeah, exactly right. 

443
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,560
Yeah, you get to pick and choose
your references. 

444
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Every one of us can find at 
least three people that likes 

445
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
us. 
It doesn't mean anything. 

446
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,120
It mean it says nothing about 
you It says that you found three

447
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,400
people that like you and can say
something relatively decent 

448
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,760
about you. 
Very true. 

449
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,240
It doesn't mean anything sure 
there's people that said some 

450
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360
nice things about Ted Bundy and 
Charles Manson. 

451
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:22,640
He. 
Was very charming and good 

452
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:23,960
looking. 
Yeah, smart. 

453
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,440
Right. 
See boom boom boom. 

454
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,400
And that made him trustworthy. 
He's probably your great driver.

455
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720
I'm sure he was. 
I'm sure he was a great day, 

456
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:32,920
too. 
Oh, yeah. 

457
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,560
Interesting to talk to, right? 
You know, you're a goal. 

458
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,680
Well, you know they're lost. 
And I know they're lost. 

459
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,800
Yeah, no. 
Just because somebody's 

460
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,400
interesting or charismatic or, 
you know, they come off as warm 

461
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,200
and friendly, it really does not
mean. 

462
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,400
But this is not a person that 
will act in the moment. 

463
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,480
A lot of the crimes we see in 
the BDSM community are what's 

464
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,920
called crimes of opportunity. 
That's that goes along with 

465
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,840
rape. 
Rape is described as a crime of 

466
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,640
opportunity. 
That's very true. 

467
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,800
Because you wouldn't rape 
someone in the middle of, you 

468
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,640
know you're going to a theme 
park with them, right? 

469
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,240
It's not really a good 
opportunity. 

470
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,040
You're not just going to pull it
out right in front of Goofy, 

471
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,200
right? 
You're not. 

472
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,360
Now, if you find them passed out
on the couch drunk or high and 

473
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,080
they're not really dressed or 
it's very easy to get them out 

474
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,400
of their clothes, sure, that's 
a, you know, to some people 

475
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,840
that's a good opportunity. 
These opportunities vary. 

476
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,320
So when these crimes of 
opportunity in mind, we have a 

477
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,120
lot of crimes of opportunity 
that happen here. 

478
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,360
You know, you may accidentally 
find out somebody's legal name 

479
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,120
because somebody spoke freely 
and didn't think that there was 

480
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,360
anyone around to hear it. 
You, the wrong person, hears 

481
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,960
your name, decides to 
investigate a little bit, finds 

482
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,600
out a little bit about you and 
starts some problems for you or 

483
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,280
attempts to blackmail you. 
That's a crime of opportunity. 

484
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,520
But you never would have gotten 
that out of interviewing them or

485
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,400
talking to their references 
because no ones ever seen them 

486
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,320
do that before. 
It's it's a crime of 

487
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,440
opportunity. 
It comes at the opportune 

488
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,320
moment. 
So what is the best time you 

489
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,920
think a way to vet them better 
or do you even? 

490
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,120
Believe in it. 
So I'm actually. 

491
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,560
Vetting system is overrated. 
That's a great question. 

492
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,000
Yeah, I actually really 
appreciate that question. 

493
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,800
So I'm writing a book on 
vetting. 

494
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,560
OK. 
And in the premise of it, in the

495
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960
very beginning, I do caution 
this is an opinion that if you 

496
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,520
read this book and you walk away
feeling as though you have not 

497
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,240
gained anything reading this 
book, congratulations. 

498
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,680
I've proven my point right. 
You gained nothing. 

499
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,600
Yeah, You gained nothing. 
And the reason why is because 

500
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,840
there really is no solid way to 
vet someone. 

501
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,320
Thank you. 
I agree. 

502
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,800
There's not. 
You know, we had this lovely 

503
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,360
couple. 
I've known them for a couple 

504
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:42,080
years. 
They were attending many of the 

505
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,360
vents and you know, it was 
probably into maybe their 10th 

506
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:49,680
event that they had came to. 
And you know, I'd seen them 

507
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,400
before they, you know, they'd 
bring their their wine or 

508
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,800
something. 
They'd get a little tipsy, 

509
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,640
nothing crazy still, you know, 
very lucid, fun, easygoing 

510
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,200
people. 
And something triggered him at 

511
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,560
some point, the husband in this 
situation, he thought it's going

512
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,160
to be cool just to helicopter my
Dick and start touching people 

513
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,920
with my Dick. 
You remember this. 

514
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,680
So it's like, and then they 
wonder why were they banned? 

515
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,800
You know, my thing of it is, you
know, one of my number what 4 on

516
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,200
my rules is don't get drunk and 
fucked up. 

517
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,000
You know, it's one thing you 
want to get a little drunk, but 

518
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,680
don't get so fucked up that 
you're going to be stupid and 

519
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,240
rubbing your Dick on people. 
Nobody wants that, you know. 

520
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,480
So if they do, they'll let you 
know. 

521
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Yeah, you know. 
They'll let you know. 

522
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,120
They'll let you know. 
There was plenty of women that 

523
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,800
night who would have like, oh, 
sure, rub your Dick on me. 

524
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,400
But yeah, it's that kind of shit
that we deal with, you know, as 

525
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,840
event organizers, you know? 
Yeah. 

526
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200
I mean, it's, it's kind of a 
it's it's a joke to me. 

527
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840
It's a joke. 
You know, you're writing a book 

528
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,160
on vetting. 
You know, I advise a bunch of 

529
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,880
freaking people on organization 
procedures, vetting, risk 

530
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,800
management. 
It's a joke because they can't, 

531
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,920
they all you're selling to them 
is a false sense of control. 

532
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,400
You can't control another 
person's actions. 

533
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,200
All you could do is control how 
you react. 

534
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,160
Yeah, OK. 
All we can do, you know, I think

535
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,640
it's, it's equally noteworthy to
mention because it's kind of 

536
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,240
funny that when somebody speaks 
I'll of another dungeon, 

537
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,720
typically they'll say, well, 
that's that place isn't safe. 

538
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,000
This happened. 
That didn't happen. 

539
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:22,880
Oh yeah, it's not safe. 
Yeah. 

540
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,960
Does that sound familiar? 
Yeah, it sounds familiar. 

541
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,080
Yeah, sure they say that, 
neglecting the fact that they 

542
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,000
have the same problem. 
Yeah, every. 

543
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,560
Because everybody has the same. 
Problem. 

544
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,840
They have the same problem 
because some shit happened over 

545
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,800
there too. 
Yeah. 

546
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,160
Why? 
Because they didn't see it 

547
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,200
coming. 
Yeah, like you. 

548
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,800
They said it's all in their own 
opportunity. 

549
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,480
They were friendly, they 
presented well, they they got 

550
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,320
along with everyone you know, up
until they didn't. 

551
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,080
Yeah, because shit happens. 
Shit happens. 

552
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,240
Yeah. 
You don't know what their frame 

553
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,720
of mind is. 
I mean, it's it's a joke to 

554
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,160
think that you are able to see 
the future of what someone will 

555
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,200
do. 
And under so many, infinitely 

556
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,560
many circumstances, you can't. 
You can't. 

557
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,560
I'm fairly intelligent, you 
know, I'd say I'm pretty normal,

558
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,120
you know, in terms of behavior. 
You know, I laugh at the unfunny

559
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,840
jokes that you want me to laugh 
at. 

560
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,400
I shut up when I know you want 
me to shut up. 

561
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,560
You know, whip my genitalia out 
and touch people, OK? 

562
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,320
Big pussy, right So. 
Big. 

563
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,880
It's hanging off the side of the
freaking. 

564
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880
Pool people with people, yeah. 
Hanging off the edge of the 

565
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,360
pool, waiting for it to be 
touched, right? 

566
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,120
Sure. 
No, I mean, I'd say I'm pretty 

567
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,600
normal, but something happened. 
Something happened and it made 

568
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,640
me fucking snap. 
Yeah. 

569
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,560
Somebody kept stalking me, 
harassing me, being there, 

570
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,720
clicked to harass me, and then 
mocked my damn sexual assault 

571
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,360
online. 
You saw a different side of me. 

572
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,360
Yeah, absolutely. 
I'm sorry. 

573
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,640
Anyone would lose their fucking 
mind when they get a certain 

574
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,400
red, like a certain like 
limitation pushed, like you say,

575
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,040
red. 
And it just doesn't stop, you 

576
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,360
know, So you don't know what the
person's going to do. 

577
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,600
You don't understand the 
circumstances that will bring 

578
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,000
them to it. 
And you know, your perspective 

579
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,120
of whether or not they're safe 
is laughable because anybody can

580
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,520
be pushed to a certain point. 
And I think, again, I think 

581
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,480
we're so imperfect as people. 
We are, we, you know, we make 

582
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,560
mistakes, we say things and do 
things a lot of times that might

583
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,840
not be the best, might not be 
protocol, but you know, what do 

584
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,280
you do, right? 
You know, but to be shunned for 

585
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,960
it continuously over and over 
again, right? 

586
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,240
It's relentlessly stupid. 
That is another problem that 

587
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,440
you'll see in every community. 
There are communities right now,

588
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,400
yeah, that are blowing up over 
one scandal or another. 

589
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,760
They're blowing up. 
They want people to be banned 

590
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,760
over this, that or the other. 
And they trip over themselves 

591
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,920
over the right reasoning. 
They trip over themselves over 

592
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,080
the length of time they trip 
over themselves about what kind 

593
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,440
of sanctions. 
Should it be a ban? 

594
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
Should it be suspension? 
Should it just be just write 

595
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,440
1000 word essay online You know 
what should it be? 

596
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:03,120
They are struggling because of 
that self policing nature that 

597
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,920
communities have. 
We don't know what to do. 

598
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,280
Nobody wants to go to the damn 
police talking about how you're 

599
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,280
at a BDSM event where you know 
Dave over there swinging his 

600
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,600
Dick around and it touched you 
right? 

601
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,160
Like no one wants to. 
Do this. 

602
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,800
OK. 
And the police and other 

603
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,720
authorities really don't even 
know how to respond. 

604
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,800
They can't intervene. 
They're not mediators, law 

605
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,720
enforcers. 
It is not against the law to 

606
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,480
offend someone. 
It's not against the law to piss

607
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,040
someone off. 
And the problem is that when 

608
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880
something does happen, they 
immediately go to his boom band.

609
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,040
Yeah, done. 
Dare you be imperfect. 

610
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,640
How dare you let that level of 
impropriety into my safe space. 

611
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,600
Yeah, you know, it's kind of 
like I said, like the couple 

612
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,160
that I had to ban, I really 
didn't ban the wife, I banned 

613
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,840
the husband. 
But the simple fact of it is it 

614
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,360
wasn't the first time, you know,
he'd gotten drunk before, you 

615
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,600
know, and it's kind of a 
repeated offense. 

616
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,240
And then it's finally, it's just
like, you push me to the limit, 

617
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,360
Okay? 
This is where it yeah, this is 

618
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,400
where I draw the line. 
But, you know, I've heard in 

619
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,800
other communities there's always
something, you know, I and this 

620
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,000
is again, why I think people 
take BDSM and community so 

621
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,800
fucking serious, you know, and 
they take things so literal, you

622
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,440
know, it's like there's no 
exceptions to the rule, you 

623
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,880
know, it's, it's a little crazy 
to me, honestly. 

624
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,560
It's. 
You know, I do believe that 

625
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,560
there should be consequences for
action. 

626
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,760
So I'm a firm believer. 
Absolutely. 

627
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,200
Yeah. 
If karma doesn't get you and the

628
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,080
law doesn't get you, yeah, I'm 
gonna fucking get you. 

629
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,560
That's how I feel. 
You're not going to violate me 

630
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,680
in such a capacity that you 
practically flaunt it as a badge

631
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:42,720
of honor. 
Yeah. 

632
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,160
I'm sorry. 
That's how I am. 

633
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440
I'm not at that point in my life
where I have zero respect for 

634
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,280
myself. 
Yeah, OK. 

635
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,520
And I don't think anyone should.
I think you should stand up for 

636
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,360
yourself. 
I think you have every right to 

637
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,400
defend yourself. 
I think you have a right to have

638
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,520
a voice in the matter. 
And that's not what happens in 

639
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,120
communities. 
What ends up happening in 

640
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,600
communities is that it's like 
it's just mob rule. 

641
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,320
Whoever's the most popular is 
the story that they believe. 

642
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,320
It's the side they believe. 
And whatever that person wants 

643
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,480
is pretty much what goes. 
What's annoying to me is, you 

644
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,360
know, being on the Gulf Coast 
and there's only so many main 

645
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,840
groups and, you know, we've been
told by different groups, it's 

646
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,560
like, well, if she was vetted 
with this group and they're good

647
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:23,960
with her, then we're good with 
her. 

648
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,160
And you know, if we've had 
problems with her in this group,

649
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,760
then we're definitely going to 
have problems with her in this 

650
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,400
group. 
So we she can't be accepted in 

651
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,720
this group. 
It's like, Oh my God, what is 

652
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,400
this? 
So that's actually really, 

653
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,800
that's a good point you bring 
up. 

654
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,320
Yeah. 
I mean, like I said, there's 

655
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,000
there's numerous problems that 
are universal in communities. 

656
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,080
Yeah, we could not just limit 
this to four. 

657
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,320
No. 
And you know what, it's for 

658
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,160
another day. 
But you know, overall and it's I

659
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,440
think a lot of times people are 
power hungry. 

660
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Yeah. 
I think they take there needs to

661
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,120
be some give. 
And I think that, yeah, there's 

662
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,840
too much of A power struggle 
over a lot of stupid shit. 

663
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,920
And a lot of it is political. 
Oh. 

664
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,880
Definitely. 
A lot of it is OK. 

665
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,880
I understand we're all 
imperfect. 

666
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,960
I admit that. 
I admit my enemy is imperfect 

667
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,880
and I can give some concessions 
with that. 

668
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,440
Sure. 
However, they're particular 

669
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,880
imperfection. 
So in this situation, when 

670
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,199
there's, like you said, there's 
no refutable information, you've

671
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,480
we've sat down and we've talked 
or talked to people and these 

672
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,560
groups or whatever they're, 
they're non yielding about 

673
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,600
anything. 
You know, nothing. 

674
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,560
But here's my thing, you are 
more than willing to be 

675
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,080
receptive to admit where you 
made mistakes. 

676
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,880
And it's not like it was big 
monumental mistakes in the two 

677
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,920
people I've banned this year. 
They both have come to me in an 

678
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,560
e-mail or text message and 
they've been completely 

679
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,639
oblivious, like, oh, what did I 
possibly do? 

680
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,880
What did I possibly do to 
deserve this? 

681
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,480
And it's like, were you too 
drunk to remember? 

682
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Do we need to go back and talk 
about it? 

683
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,800
My thing of it is they had sober
people with them. 

684
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,000
They remembered what they they 
did, but when the they don't 

685
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,200
want to take any responsibility 
for their actions. 

686
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,800
I think that's where you and I 
have always had problems, where 

687
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,600
people have not been admitting 
or been humbled by their 

688
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,360
experience of what they've done.
Wrong. 

689
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,120
And sometimes you'll run into 
that because you know we'll have

690
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,240
difference of opinion. 
You know your level of of 

691
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,880
imperfection of mine, you. 
And I've been on the same page. 

692
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,000
No, no. 
But I mean you general, Sorry. 

693
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,440
What I mean is we will always 
disagree on, you know, this is 

694
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,680
another problem too. 
Communities need to get together

695
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,000
and talk about what is 
absolutely not permissible and 

696
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,800
what can be, you know, debated, 
given on a case by case basis. 

697
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,560
The problem comes in when you 
don't communicate those 

698
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,360
expectations among people that 
are involved in your community 

699
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,800
and they need to have more town 
hall meetings about this because

700
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,960
some people just don't know and 
some people don't understand, 

701
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,600
you know, what is the general 
consensus of what their 

702
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,200
community wants. 
Do we really want a 0 defect 

703
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,640
mentality in our communities? 
I would I would say not. 

704
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,080
I think the average person would
not want to be permanently 

705
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,640
banned for every little 
infraction they could have ever 

706
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:14,240
committed. 
But you know there are people 

707
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,040
that will not see your 
perspective no matter what. 

708
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,320
No, very true. 
They will simply say that what 

709
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,720
you did is unforgivable. 
It is never. 

710
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880
It's never OK. 
I don't care what led up to it. 

711
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,520
I don't care what the intent is.
I don't care what the fuck you 

712
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,840
have to say about it. 
Yeah, it's the fact that it 

713
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,400
happened, Period. 
Now, in some cases, that works. 

714
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,920
Like rape. 
That works because it doesn't 

715
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,720
matter like what she said to you
or what he led you to believe or

716
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:52,440
what you know, what relations 
you had with them at all. 

717
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,760
Rape is never permissible at 
all. 

718
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,160
I do believe permanent bans 
should be in place for things 

719
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,720
like rape, but for literally 
just about anything else it 

720
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,120
really is a case by case basis. 
Absolutely. 

721
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,400
You know, that's just my opinion
on it. 

722
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,440
It's, I don't believe in 
permanent bans generally. 

723
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:12,840
I don't believe it. 
Yeah. 

724
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,000
I think that people can learn a 
lot from taking a significant 

725
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,040
amount of time of way. 
Absolutely. 

726
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,080
And things can be forgivable, 
right? 

727
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,480
Yeah, and I think that they need
to do better. 

728
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,560
The people in the communities 
around the US need to do better 

729
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,600
to understand the perspectives 
on all sides. 

730
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:31,880
And they don't. 
They don't. 

731
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,720
What they'll typically do is 
they'll listen to their friends 

732
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,480
and people they find credible. 
I mean, that's that's cherry 

733
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,400
picking. 
Yeah. 

734
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,720
That's not a good investigation.
Communities love to tell you we 

735
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,360
invest, investigate claims, we 
investigate. 

736
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,440
They don't. 
What they do is they hear from 

737
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,240
their friends and people they 
consider credible. 

738
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,120
This goes back to vetting. 
Just because you think they're 

739
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,160
credible doesn't mean they are. 
I want to hear about some of the

740
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,280
stories in Europe and what they 
have to deal with in vetting. 

741
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,960
Yeah, and dungeons and 
organizations too. 

742
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,320
What I've seen people in the UK 
are very similar as in the US, 

743
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560
they have similar problems in 
the way they handle things. 

744
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Yeah, just from my friends in 
the UK, they they describe the 

745
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,520
same. 
It's really, I believe that I've

746
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,440
heard the same thing as well. 
Well, I think we need to leave 

747
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,480
it at that. 
People need to listen to us on 

748
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:16,920
their lunch breaks. 
Sure. 

749
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,760
Yeah. 
All right. 

750
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,160
Well, thanks for coming in so we
can chit chat and figure some 

751
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,320
stuff out, put our little pieces
of opinion out there. 

752
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:28,760
All right. 
Well, thanks for joining us. 

753
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,280
Yeah. 
And until then, may all your 

754
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,040
fantasies become realities.