I've been involved in doing stuff around human sexuality and
kinky my whole life. As I get older, I'm more
interested in and kink and helping that mainstream a little
bit. So I did a documentary called
Touch Kink, which kind of goes through the reasons why people
shouldn't be afraid of kink. And in fact, I actually started.
I think it's a superior way to interact, at least the, the
mindset of kink, of following those the, the, the circle.
The reason I have the, the big O in touch kink is a, it's a
circle. You know, if I talk to you and I
don't assume anything, I just ask you who you are and what you
like and, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself and so
on and negotiate something. And if we decide we're going to
try something, then we work on the consent and make sure that
it's not just consent, not just a yeah, but a hell yeah.
Like an enthusiastic consent. I think a lot of people
sometimes take yes, is, is, is the end all and beyond.
I don't think it is because I think people will say yes to
things that they're not really ready for sometimes.
So it's your job to sort of make sure they're ready for what
they're saying yes to. So it's enthusiastic informed
consent and then, you know, playing and doing whatever that
is and then checking in with the person afterwards, the
aftercare. And you know, the more I think
about that circle, it's sort of the way forward for everything,
for business. You know, I shouldn't be just
trying to take from you. I should be able to try and make
a circle and make sure you're happy with whatever we did.
Personal life. We should, you know, shouldn't
just be taking. It should always be this kind of
circle. And I think it's also a way
forward culturally. A lot of men I've talked to are
kind of like, well, what do I do?
How am I supposed to behave around women anymore?
My dad used to say, you basically kind of put your hand
on the shoulder and you you work down to the thing.
And then you try and wrap around to the boob and see how far you
can get before they say no. You know, that's kind of how it
was apparently back in the day. So a lot of guys said, well,
what are we supposed to do now? You know what, what's the rule?
You know? And I said, well, it's actually
better than it was before because the other person also
has the responsibility to take charge of their own pleasure and
their own whatever. So you will have to ask them
what they like, what kinds of things they like.
Maybe they like that. Maybe they'll be more raring to
go than you are, you know, But it doesn't really matter.
You got to have those conversations.
And then the end of the day, it's not that you can't smack
someone on the ass anymore. You can long as that's longer,
Damn sure that's what they like, you know, and if I just because
you smack one person on the ass doesn't mean the next person's
going to be down with that or the person even got their ass
spanked is down with someone else doing it.
But the truth is it's better than it was before because we
have to be more open. We have to be more honest and we
can make our own worlds the way we want.
And, you know, there are lots of people that are kinky and left
love 50s household where they basically go back to a 50s style
thing where, you know, the man or the woman fetches the
slippers and the man or the woman cooks the dinner or the,
the, the, however they want to identify.
So I, I, I think kink is more than just this sort of thing on
the edge that some people think is odd.
It, it really is a way forward for a lot of people.
It's a home for letting them discuss.
That's why I love it. I prefer interacting with kinky
people just because you the conversations are more fun.
And of course, you do hit occasionally people, but maybe
you're, they want to talk about something you're not interested,
interested in or vice versa. And you can say, OK, that's your
kink and that's cool, but it's not mine.
So, you know, I think it's just such a great way forward.
And that's why I wanted to make this documentary.
You know, what you're doing is you're bringing in like a whole
new revolution of, of the concept of BDSM that people
don't see, you know, and like you said, people are so
uneducated about it and they don't, they don't really grasp
concept when they're not in the lifestyle.
So they automatically think the worst, you know, because there's
a lot of misconceptions about it.
Yeah, that was, I mean, I, I've been fortunate enough in my life
to get a travel and live in lots of countries.
And I can't believe I had that misconception about a dominatrix
myself. And I, I still remember being so
surprised how sweet this person was and how intelligent they
were. And and I, I really thought,
well, it doesn't seem much of it, but, you know, realizing
later that you're actually not much of A Dom if you have to
tell people you're a Dom and you shouldn't.
And we all start off as human beings and then we decide, you
know, maybe you want to be a Dom for someone.
Maybe you don't even want to be a Dom for that person.
Doesn't mean you have to some people it's more like a coat
they put on some people it's more of their personality.
But even when it's more of their personality, it's nobody's
anything all the time. And that that is a thing.
I mean, it's I often make the comparison with the gay
community to what's happening in kink now because I mean, I
understand there's it's a different thing, but there is
parallels in terms of there was this cliche 40 years ago, what
it was to be gay. You know, you didn't expect a
high-powered business guy or army guy or whatever, like these
sort of much use, but of course they are too.
It's not, there's no one, it's not like there was the cliche
that they started with. And then as time went on, you
realized, well, gay people, like anything else, come in a million
different types. And there's no cliche there
either. And same with kinky people.
They, they, you can start with the, the, the, the cliches, but
you know, it's not the truth. So we, we, it takes process to
people coming out and people educating and people talking
about this. That's why it was so important
in my film to have somebody that really did think it was weird
and really did think kinky people were weird, to sort of go
through it and see if she found. What I hope the audience would
find is that there's some really useful knowledge there, and in
many ways it's a superior way forward.
Am I saying everyone is kinky as somehow superior?
Of course not. But it is a good thing to know
about. It's a good thing, especially
navigating modern relationships, taking charge of your own body
to, you know, take heart of your own pleasure and who who you are
and how you to have those tools to be able to, you know, assert
yourself or ask for what you want or, you know, they just
having that language, having that language of kink makes it
more likely that you're going to connect.
So that's why I think it's super important that people understand
kink. And that's the results.
I've been to 18 film festivals now and the film's been shown to
thousands and thousands and thousands of people.
And, and one of the biggest compliments I can get is it from
people is, you know, thank you. This really gave me a new way to
look at, look at the world, to look at, look at the things.
And that's really something I aspire to.
So in your documentary explain it to people because you have 4
different people in your documentary and it's based on
them. So tell the audience about it.
Yeah, well, the truth is it's a documentary.
It's not a, a a fiction. So I mean, I, I met January who
introduced me to more people that introduced me.
So it's the people that I met. I actually met literally
hundreds of people. But I I focused in on the people
where something happened to them.
There was some sort of Arc 1 was just a a good old boy from Texas
that was very articulate about his interest in masochism and
being submissive and, and how, you know, he believes how that
happened and why it happened. And his relationship with that
one was a dominatrix that frankly was very new to the
scene. She really kind of decided to do
and just jumped all the way in, you know, bit naively really in
kind of becoming the poster child for what it was to be a
dominatrix in London. And unfortunately took a lot of
Flack for that, far more than she realized, which kind of
illustrates why how the community is still marginalized
to some extent or can be used to.
Again, could be a reason, you know, it shouldn't be.
But you know, it's one of those things you can say to sort of
try and marginalized somebody, you know, and the it's sad that
it's the reality of it. So it's her story and how she
went through it. And then Grace, who was someone
who was curious. I've met her before when I was
traveling. I kind of sensed she was very
dominant woman, I'll be honest. But I don't think she knew what
that was so much. She'd always said she liked her
military boys and some men found her bitchy.
And me, I'm like, you're a dominatrix and you don't even
know it. That's OK.
So I put her through this course and I was hoping that she would
discover what I suspected, but I was going to put it either way.
And she did. She really started started
clicking for her why some kinds of men really liked being with
her and other men not so much. And, and the way she was and it
was OK to have sort of more a female led relationship and that
was OK too. So and now she she married the
guy, got 2 beautiful kids and happier than you could imagine
by just discovering this world and and giving her the courage
to be who she is. And now she's, last time I saw
her was at a screening in San Diego with her big posse of
girls all following her. You know, she's definitely
become the queen, the queen bitch.
And I mean that loving way. It's amazing how people, you
know, people always ask me, they're like, can you teach me
how to be a Dom? And it's like you really can't
teach people. It's like it's either ingrained
in you. I can teach you to top people,
but a lot of people don't even realize their capabilities.
You know, like you said, she didn't have any idea that she
was a dominant. You know it.
It's interesting. It is fascinating and I think we
all have I don't believe anybody's 100% anything.
I don't think you're 100% anything.
And and this, you know, if you've ever been to a group
where you watch a bunch of submissives or slaves types on
their own, eventually a hierarchy starts to emerge. 1 is
just tired of the total chaos and decides to sort of take
charge. So even someone who identifies
as slave or submissive of will will be one with a slightly more
dominant tendency than the others.
And that person usually sort of ends up taking control of the
situation. So I think we're everything.
I think we have masculine traits, I think we have feminine
traits. I think we have, you know,
dominant traits, submissive traits.
A lot of it is called like I always identified more as a Dom
and going through this, I'm finding myself more switchy
because I'm like, well, you know, I felt like I was sort of
the Dom because I was supposed to be because I was a guy.
And then I met so many wonderful people that explained it to me.
And I'm like, I'm missing out on a lot of really fun stuff here.
So yeah, I could be switchy. I can, I can, I can you want me
to call you mistress or goddess or whatever, you know, that
that's it would be my honor, you know, if we're going to play
this dynamic, you know. So yeah, I think it's just
acknowledging that we're all multiple people we have and it's
OK. That's another thing I think
that I got very much from this film and my experience is that
some people have this notion that you have to be the same
thing all the time. You can be the high-powered kick
ass businessman by day and the little, you know, slave by
night. And that actually might balance
you off better, you know, and I, I think it's not as uncommon and
people, people will tend to want to think of you and what as one
way. Like I previously thought about
what a dominatrix was, but when you get to know them, because
no, actually that's not not the case at all.
So I think people embracing the full spectrum of their feelings
and emotions and the spectrums of who they can be or want to be
in different situations, I think is also super healthy.
Absolutely. I, you know, I feel like, you
know, doing this docu series is just the simple fact that it's
so cathartic people to be able to express themselves, you know,
and they miss that when they suppress themselves in kink.
You know, I saw a client the other day and, you know, he
wanted forced feminization. And we did the whole scene of
forced feminization. And then afterwards, after the
scene and after everything was done, he was just like, yeah,
I'm done. You know, it's like he felt such
shame and I said you should embrace your, your feminine
side. And he's like, yeah, maybe next
time I'm good. Or not or not.
You know, I've been thinking about shame a lot lately and,
you know, when I think about some of the kinks that I liked,
a lot of it was stuff that I had a little bit of shame about and
that actually made it hotter. You know, I'm, I'm actually
sometimes worried about this. Like, I mean, there's an
important, we have to recognize healthy shame and unhealthy
shame, but sometimes it's fun to have like sort of these cultural
things that you're supposed to be like this, this, that maybe
and then break it. And it's OK to sort of.
So no, I, I didn't really want you.
I mean, if he's come to you for a fortune, for a feminization
thing, he's definitely been thinking about this, you know,
but maybe he needs, let's get back to reality before he goes
out the door. And I've heard that from a lot
of Doms that they notice when the person's out the door,
sometimes they'll give a slight insult or a slight like, oh,
that was nothing kind of thing. It's almost like, like getting
them ready to hit the world again.
So it's, you kind of have to ignore it and think of it as
almost a compliment that you've done so well, you've taken this
person. They, they have to sort of shake
it off a little bit because they know the world isn't like that.
So it, it, it's, it's, it's kind of fun to have these things,
the, these things that we, I'm actually sometimes wondering
what's going to happen if, you know, young people, especially
in California, everybody's Poly, everybody's fluid, this fluid
that. And that's great.
But I'm just wondering what, what kind of fun are they, What
kind of kinks are they going to have?
Let's pretend we're not fluid, but let's pretend we're not.
I don't know. I guess we can always find our
kinks, but it's like my favorite kinks are all stuff that I had
to work through. It's too fun.
It really is. And it's so fun to, you know, we
have big lifestyle parties and, you know, just to I, I kind of
try to gauge people to see really what they like.
And before I even ask them questions, just to see, you
know, I'm not trying to be superficial, but you know,
sometimes you can just look at a person and just know what they
want, you know, it's so interesting.
Well, you, you feel it. I mean you, you do.
You have a vast amount of experience and obviously like
I've sometimes they, you know, tell me like I know within 3
seconds of meeting somebody what the kinks are.
But that's just like if you were a, a doctor and someone coughs
this way and twitches that way, you probably know exactly what
the illness is going to be. Just it's experience.
Yeah, you might be wrong, but I mean, you've got this all this
experience when people cough this way and have this twitch,
it's XYZ, you know, Oh well, once in a while it could be
something else, but it's generally XYZ, you know, So I
think that comes from experience, which is, you know,
which is cool. And also I think there you'll
you'll attract a certain kind of clientele.
You know, I'm I'm more, I'm more interacting with dominant
dominatrix now than I did before.
But frankly, you know, if I was in an event or whatever, I would
be pleasant, but I wouldn't really be going up to you and
going anything. If you look dominant, if you
look submissive, then hi, you know, but now I'm different.
But so you're only, you're also going to, certain kinds of
people are going to approach you as well.
So I think that's half the battle, you know?
Absolutely. So you said it.
It was difficult to get people to actually talk about, you
know, their kinks because, you know, again, it's so taboo.
But you had a lot of success in talking to these people.
So what were some of the fetishes that they had?
Oh boy. Everything.
Yeah, I mean, needles, rope, leather, stockings, you know,
impact you. I mean, this the the whole, I
actually interviewed almost 300 people.
I I didn't use everyone, but yeah, I mean, everybody's
different. Everybody's got different kinks.
The one thing I did discover that I thought was really
interesting and I like to talk about a lot is that, and I think
even kinky people sometimes make this this mistake, you know, you
walk into a room and you see maybe 12 couples getting spanked
and looks exactly the same. You think, oh, OK, they
obviously like it and you'll probably know, but I think a lot
of people won't. I can guarantee every one of
those having a completely unique experience. 1 might be
fetishizing the sound of that smack. 11 might be fetishizing
the the, the pain. Someone else might be a top, a
dominant who's having his sub top him because he or she want
just likes the sensation on her orgasma.
But it all looks the same. But sometimes they're even
though you think, oh, they're fetishizing spanking.
No one's could be fetishizing pleasure.
Another one's sound and one's smell.
One could be fetishizing switching a role for a moment to
you know, this, the role it it's it's infinite.
It truly is infinite. What people feel.
I tend to boil it down to three things.
It's my sort of view because, you know, universal theory, you
know, in that moment there's something that they're
fetishizing. They're thinking about one
thing, they're in a certain role in that moment where they're
going to be this sadly a thing and they're craving a certain
sensation. It's not always orgasmic.
Sometimes it might be pain, satisfaction, pride, you know, a
million other things, but it usually dials down to those
through three things, you know, they're fetishizing.
You know, something's in their mind that's like really is their
focus. They're feeling a certain role
in that moment and they, they want at the end of the session
be more than anything to feel like they've been a good boy and
survived it or something. I mean, it's different for
different people, but it's always seems to boil down to
those three things. And that seems to work across
every every kink you know. Yeah, you know, interestingly
enough too, when I've talked to people, because I really like to
delve in the the psychological aspect of it, I ask a lot of
people, you know, why do you think you want this?
And a lot of them, they just don't even care, you know, they,
they just, they want to feel and they want to do what they want
and they really don't care what even got them to that point.
So it's like, I all mean, just do it, you know?
Absolutely. Where do you see yourself at
this point? Are you going to do another?
Yeah, I'm working on a I'm working on A10 part television
series now exploring sexuality and technology.
I'm, I'm under agreement to, to write 24 different episode
outlines and then the, the this, that this touch kink I did on my
own nickel. So I had total creative control.
When you take money from a broadcaster or someone else,
they tend to want to a say in things.
So I'm developing the series. It may or may not go into
production. I hope so, but I'm being paid to
sort of develop it and I would like to keep going down there.
I think it's endlessly fascinating.
I would love to do a whole thing just on latex fetishes, a whole
thing just on rope, a whole thing on the Spanko community, a
whole thing on, you know, this merge of sex tech and how it's
how it's emerging different parts of the world and you know,
the generational difference between young women.
So you have no problem go buying 5 vibrators or, you know, my
mother would be horrified. You know, it's like, you know,
it's interesting cultural shifts as well.
There's there's a lot of really interesting subjects.
For whatever reason, though, sex is always a little bit of a
tough sell, you know, Which is funny because they use it to
sell the stuff. But I don't know.
It's one of those things that people like to watch in private,
I guess. So it's just finding out and how
it's going to go and how it packages up.
But yeah, I'm going to keep making movie documentaries about
kink and about human sexuality because that's what interests me
the most. It is.
It's extremely interesting and. Like I said, it's it was really
cool to watch honestly and so many I I just wouldn't even back
and watch some of the clips because I thought, oh, this is
so cool. So I'll have to I'm going to
send the link and set it up when we broadcast this episode.
That way people can go and watch it.
Yeah, it's now available for video on demand.
It's on Kinema, my main platform.
It's going to be on Amazon and Apple shortly.
I prefer people using Kinema because it's the most direct
route to the to the film maker. It's more of an indie platform
where it goes on other platforms.
And you'd be shocked to let you know Apple makes 10 bucks.
You make $0.10 kind of thing. Yeah.
But yeah, the price will be the same across the platforms.
It's just that, yeah, it's it's incredible.
The differences had the middleman and these how some of
these platforms are, but you know, the trick is to be on all
of them. But yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll
provide you with that that link. My goal from doing a lot of
these podcasts is just to grow my mail list because A, to
promote this existing project, B, for development for the
series. I also categorize people
depending on their interests and stories and keep in touch with
them because, you know, it's more than just having a
promotion of a film. It's also looking for people for
the next series as well. Absolutely.
And I'll pass your information on to a few of my other
podcaster friends and you know, we got to promote it I.
I agree if you also. It's so great.
Also, I don't know if you do or not, but if you have a
particularly large group of people following your
newsletter, you can set up a screen, your own screening where
you talk or introduce it. I'm happy to join if you'd like.
And you can do it for profit. It takes about 15 minutes to set
up. You set your, you set your
ticket price. The kinema takes care of all the
billing for you. All they do is send you money.
It's remarkably easy to do. I've done a few of them now and
I've done I've, yeah, it's, it's been really cool actually, and
encouraging people because, you know, my mailing list, my, my
group of people is so big. Everybody's going to know
different people. You know, you sell 100 tickets,
you make a couple of grand. It was like, if you have that,
you know, the depending on how big your audience is and, and
how much you want to, that's another thing.
If you want, you can set up your own screening and promote it and
do it for profit, or you can just direct people to me and
I'll send them information about future screenings wherever they
are. That'd be super.
Yeah. Right now we're in 157
countries, so we have a big fan base on it.
And, you know, people love to watch the videos.
And, you know, we do a lot of I do things like call Torture
Thursday and Fucked Up Friday or people just, you know, they want
to take impact or, you know, penetration, anything like that
that's kink related. And we do it and people love
watching it. So that's why I was just, yeah,
I was, I was happy to do the interview.
And then that way we can again promote your your documentary
because I think it's just fascinating.
Everything. Thank.
You. Absolutely.
Appreciate that. Yeah, go ahead.
No, no, go right ahead. Tell.
Me, I was just going to say, I mean, that's why I'm doing these
podcasts. Just talking to people.
It's like I, I don't have a big Hollywood promotional budget.
So this is it. It's word of mouth.
Well, you know, your documentary will speak for itself
regardless. So, you know, it was very
fascinating. I loved it.
But I look forward again to seeing more of your work and,
and we'll, we'll catch up again in a few months and, and see
where you're at with your following, you know, 24 part
series. That's right.
Well, it'll be 10 episodes. I have to come up with 24
stories, I guess. But yeah, yeah.
OK, well, you can do it, Yeah. And if you're in Florida, you
want to come film us anytime? Absolutely.
Well, I'm, I'm usually in Florida twice a year, once for
fetish factory and once for fetish Con.
So oh. Well, there you go.
Yeah, I'm I'm super close to fetish con is only six hours
from me so. Oh, there you go.
Cool, cool. We'll have to meet up.
Absolutely, Absolutely. All right.
Thank you again, Max. It's been a pleasure.
Thank you very. Much.
Yeah, I was just going to say, and you know, you're the
filmmaker of Touch Kink, so we got to promote.
It thank you very. Much.
All right, Thank you. Thank you.
All right, listeners, thank you for listening.
This is Mistress Mia's tension. We're out.