But what this relationship style does more than anything else is
it requires you to have complicated conversations,
right? And once you can tell your
partner, well, actually, I'd rather be sitting in the corner,
maybe you could tie me up. Have you ever thought about
using a gag? And how about if we take this
steel device and we put it on my penis so I can't get to it right
after you've said that to her, it's pretty easy to say I'm sad
because something bad happened. Hey everybody, I just wanted to
give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a
one-on-one coaching session. It's called ask Crystal.
It is coaching for individuals and couples as they explore
ethical non monogamy, whatever your dynamic is.
I've been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a
ton. And I hope to share some of that
wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you.
So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you
there. Hello, happy people.
Crystal Welcher. I've got a very good friend of
mine that I'm going to be talking to today.
He is new under score hopeful on Twitter.
If you're there, I refuse to call it X because I really don't
like Elon Musk, but that's just a side note.
And he is one of the four gentlemen who started the Cuck
My Life podcast, which is excellent and I highly recommend
it. If you have the even the even a
cursory interest in the cuckold experience, please take some
time and listen to their episodes.
It's very, very worthwhile. We were just chatting briefly
and we thought guys and I am passionate about and there's not
very many of us in the content field and and it's a topic that
we kind of wanted to talk through because it can be
challenging. And that is in the world of
content creation. So much of what's out there is
all the salacious sex stuff, how sexy it is and how wanton it is
and how, you know, crazy sexy it is, which is all good stuff.
I mean we all like that stuff. However, those of us that are in
serious cuck dynamic relationships have one.
And I know it's been my goal since the very beginning and I
think it's the cuck my life. I'm going to let hopeful speak
to this more in depth, but we would like to bring more of the,
the benefits of the intimacy, the commitment, the
conversation, the personal growth, the all those things
that we've gotten out of it that it and this dynamic has, I know
for us, it has driven us much, much deeper into those elements.
And that's the stuff that I personally think is important.
And I think hopeful, Why don't you go ahead and say hi and
share a couple of your thoughts on that topic?
100% First, Crystal, let me just say thank you so much for having
me. It is an honor and a pleasure to
talk to you. We when we had you on at at at
the cock my life pod. It was one of our favorite
episodes and you're so you're such a wonderful voice for the
community. But I, I, I do, I want to, I
want to have this conversation with you because I think it's
very important to talk about the difference between the lifestyle
and the porn that we see, right? The pornography is not real.
Most of it now you and I just had this conversation about only
fans and how that's driving a lot of the content.
And God bless we're, we're, we're so happy that people are
willing to, to live this lifestyle out loud, but they
show you the parts that they're really happy to show you in an
edited form. Right.
Right, we live this lifestyle 24/7.
There's no edit button in real life.
Right. Like I say stupid shit.
I can't be just like, hey Aussie, can you take that out
for me Because I don't want my wife to hear that.
No, she's standing right there. She's standing right there.
Boy, that's a, That is a deep truth right there when you are
when you are in it at the lifestyle level.
And this is no slam on people who enjoy porn, but there's so
much more to it. There's so much more to it.
It has LED us to an intimacy that we never thought possible
that we never ever thought that we would reach in this lifetime.
And and we just continue to dig it deeper and deeper and deeper.
Now we like the salacious stuff just as much as the next person,
but it's so not the most important thing for us.
It has become one of our greatest avenues to personal
growth. That's that's the best I can put
it because it. I agree with you 100% it it.
Contains it contains it's a. Journey of growth.
It's a journey, yeah. We all, we all evolved.
I don't know and I I know a lot of people in this lifestyle, a
whole bunch of them. I have a some of my, my, my, my
best friends in the world are in this lifestyle, right.
Poor boy butterfly's husband, Aussie hubs to hot wife.
They are my favorite people on this planet outside of my wife.
And we were having a conversation just the other day
about the fact that we are incredibly lucky that we can be
so intimate with each other. That we have the ability to have
deep conversations not just about who we are and what we
want, but about our lives and about how we how we respond to
the to the stressors in our lives, including the people that
we're married to. I don't know a lot of men who
have those kinds of connections. You know, that is an incredibly
important point because I mean, if you read any psychologist
study, they will say that typically, and this is a
generalization, but typically women tend to form much closer
bounds with each other than men do.
And men as they get older are a much lonelier group.
They're a much more disconnected group.
And yet you find a community of like minded people like this
because you've done the work with your spouse to be intimate
with yourself first of all, so you can be intimate with her.
Then this, this connection and this commonality that you can
have with other men is, is unbounded.
It's unbounded. It it does, it creates some of
the closest relationships imaginable.
And what a gift is that? It's amazing.
And I, you know, when I, when I first approached Tatiana, my
partner, about cuckolding and about this lifestyle in general,
she never really heard it. It was not something that she
was aware of. And it was really hard to have
that conversation, that initial conversation.
There was nothing easy about it. And it wasn't easy for her
either. She had to process it a little
bit. She had to think about it.
We, the conversation took days or weeks.
It was not a short conversation. But as we went down that road
and started talking about why? Well, what does that mean?
I had to drop all pretense of what I of of exactly what I
pretend to be versus exactly who I am.
And I have revealed more about my inner self and who I am and
what I want to Tatiana and also to these men in my group that I
have ever been able to give to anybody else in my life ever.
And I've had close relationships.
I have very dear friends from my vanilla life.
I'm just not able to share with them like I'm able to share with
these people on this side, on this particular pie piece, this
compartment right of my life. And that's the intimacy that I
was was talking Speaking of because it starts with this
willingness to risk and be vulnerable.
It, it starts with a willingness to deal with any shame or any
embarrassment that you have in order to reveal yourself on
those deep levels to a partner. But my gosh, what a bond that
creates. And then if you can take that
experience, knowing that there's benefit that comes from that,
and you can transfer that to a group of men who are also
experiencing that, that is a golden, golden, golden ticket.
That is a golden ticket because that there's very few men that
ever experienced that anywhere in their lives.
We're very fortunate. We check in on each other, we
ask each other how, how we're doing.
We text each other to that just that we love each other, right?
I, I, I found my tribe in this lifestyle and it's, it's really,
it's a wonderful feeling. It's a feeling of being complete
that I've never really experienced before.
No. And so, you know, I think that's
what leaves us with a feeling of that, that that you just
described, that feeling of being complete.
That's really, I think it's as close as we come to being a
whole person where there's no pretense, there's no all of
your, all of your shadows have been dropped down, you know, and
you stand there as a complete person before the world that
that's an that's a gift of enormous, enormous importance
and. In both ways.
And so a few people have
experienced that, I think genuinely.
And we didn't even know we that's, that's yeah, that's what
I was talking about. Like we, my husband and I never
imagined that level of intimacy cause we've never experienced it
before. And I, you know, like many
women, I've had very, very close relationships with women friends
of mine. But I'm even noticing, excuse
me, I'm even noticing that now that my women friends that I've
met in the lifestyle, it's a whole nother level of intimate.
And, you know, I think it's, those are the things in the
world and we live in this world that's full of turmoil that
leaves us feeling connected, like we're not alone here.
We're not alone here trying to figure out everything by
ourselves. You know, we, we have a tribe.
We have, we have trusted comrades who will, you know,
call us up short if we're stepping out of line.
And and that we can be really, really real with I.
I just can't, I can't even express how valuable that is to
us. Then prop us up when we're
struggling, right? So our little group, it's, it's
when, when we invite people into them, we don't invite people
into it every day, but we invite people into it every once in a
while. What I try to explain to them is
that you're about to be introduced to 40 guys who will
absolutely, positively care about your happiness, that
you're getting what you need and what you want.
And they will genuinely ask about right?
We are now none of us have met on the on the part.
We've never been in each other's physical presence.
We are still deep, overwhelming friends.
We have developed this incredible intimacy among us.
And it's it is a it's joyful. It's joyful to have people that
you can go to and say literally anything.
There's joy in that. And I don't think a lot of men
have the ability to reach out to other men and be like, oh, you
can't believe what I did last night.
Yeah, no, that is absolutely true.
And now I have an overwhelming urge to introduce Bichard to you
guys and make sure he gets in your group 'cause I think he
would benefit from it a huge amount.
All he needs is a Twitter hand. All he needs is a Twitter hand
and we'd love to have. Yeah, he, yeah, he doesn't do
much social media, but it, it would, I, I just know it would
benefit him so, so, so many ways.
And so I, I will do that. I will follow up on that.
Well, so obviously your group is growing day by day.
And, and I have a sense, I mean, there's nobody that's taken hard
evidence about this, but I have a sense that the general
public's interest in this particular dynamic is
continuously growing. According to according to all of
Pornhub's research, people are very interested.
And we have a mutual friend, Doctor Leigh.
I think he's, he says frequently that more than 60% of men have
at least fantasized about it. Yeah, yeah, I'm a huge fan of
Doctor Leigh. He's he was the original cock
expert. Of the world.
He's a nice, nice man. Yeah, he is.
He's a gem of a guy. So my question for you, because
this is the same battle that I'm waging, is of all of those what
have to be millions of people, how do we get their attention to
pay attention to all these other deep profound intimate benefits
outside of or in addition to the salacious sex stuff?
How how do we get that attention?
How do we? That's a great question.
And I, I think most of the people, I think there are,
there's a significant number of people in this country who are
incapable of being part of this lifestyle simply because of
their religious indoctrination. Yes, right.
We, we talk all the time in our group about the, the guys who
have overcome that indoctrination that that sex is
bad. You should feel guilty when you
have an erection or if you masturbate, you're going to
hell. Those people have a hard time
overcoming that frequently, right?
And so that we're never going to get to everybody.
But I think the, the, the, the, the right way to approach
getting people to at least understand who we are and what
we do right, is to continue to have thoughtful conversations
about it that appeal to more than just you.
And I were talking earlier and I think we referred to them as the
porn cocks. Right, that group.
Men were like, they're they're, they love the idea until they
finish masturbating. Then like, oh, that was gross.
I can't imagine. That I could never actually do
that. I just wanna masturbate to it.
Yeah. No.
That that is the battle. That is the battle to be waged.
I mean, it was it was those exact ideas that started me
writing and podcasting to begin with.
Because I said, wait, there's, there's this whole other world
out here that most of most people who talk about it are not
remotely aware of. And, and so, well, I'm, I'm
thrilled that you guys are another, your, your brother
voices in the field. And I appreciate that so much
because we're only a very few and and frequently that message
just gets drowned out by the porn, by the porn cucks as we
have so affectionately labeled them and I'm.
There's nothing wrong with that. No.
There's nothing wrong with that. Like it is perfectly acceptable.
This is, and there's no way around it.
This is a sexual lifestyle, right?
This is a sexual lifestyle and that that is, it is it is
absolutely part of it. There's no question about it,
but it's not all of it. It's not all of it.
I think that's what we're trying to get to.
It's not. All and I think the.
Sex is part of it. Yeah, sure.
Of course, of course. And I think this, you know,
aside from the deep intimacy in the relationship itself with
your partner, this thing that you touched on with the
camaraderie and the community of fellow real cucks who live this
way and have learned to drop their masks and deal with shame
and all of that stuff that allows people to be vulnerable
and intimate. That is such a huge deal.
And I think a lot of there, there's many men who might hear
that and say, oh man, I don't want to do that.
I can maybe do this over here, but I don't want to do that.
I don't drop all my masks and all of my pretense.
Oh, I don't know if I want to do that.
And I'm just, it is hard. It of course it's hard.
And I'm just, I just want to reiterate that it's just worth
it. It's hard and it's worth it
because it allows you to be more deeply connected to yourself,
your partner, and this whole community of other people who
share that lifestyle. It's just worth it.
Vulnerability is, I think, the key to any good relationship,
right? The in order to have a close
personal relationship, you have to tell you have to be
vulnerable to the person you want to have that relationship
with, no matter who it is, right, On some level.
And every relationship is different.
But what this relationship style does more than anything else is
it requires you to have complicated conversations,
right? And once you can tell your
partner, well, actually, I'd rather be sitting in the corner,
maybe you could tie me up. Have you ever thought about
using a gag? And how about if we take this
steel device and we put it on my penis so I can't get to it,
right? After you've said that to her,
it's pretty easy to say I'm sad because something bad at right,
right, right. Right there.
You create this ability to have deep, thoughtful conversations
about a specific topic, right? But that topic is so complicated
and so difficult that every other conversation becomes
easier, right Every. Other one, every other one.
And the interesting thing is that, you know, it's like any
other muscle that you start to exercise.
The more you do it, the easier it becomes.
So it feels impossibly difficult in the beginning.
And yet the more you actually do it and realize that nobody
walked away, nobody shamed you, nobody, you know, laughed at
you. You know, it becomes that much
easier to do it the next time on the next topic and the next one
and the next one and then pretty soon.
It might never be easy. It might never be easy.
Yeah, may not. But it's it it you when you want
to have these conversations, if you're open to having these
conversations, you have to be 100% honest with yourself first.
Right A. 100% honest with yourself first.
I recommend to anybody who who asks me how do you get into
being this? The first thing I ask guys is
Are you sure you want to do it? Are you sure you want to do it?
Are you sure that this is what you want?
Because this is not an easy lifestyle.
It's not easy, and a lot of those guys will answer.
I don't know if I really want it.
They might have a little curiosity.
They might, and it's same for the women.
I, I sounds kind of interesting, but I don't know.
And the simple advice I've given a few people is experiment, try.
Take a small, take a baby step, try something, try something and
then talk about it. See how it plays.
You like it, you didn't like it it We might want to do more of
that. We might want to do less of
that, but start somewhere and just try rather than rolling it
around in your head indefinitely where you'll never take an
action on anything and then you'll never really know how to
find out what you really want. You you have to try something
and and then and then really talk about it.
How did it play for everybody? And it's not it.
It's not a terrible place to start Crystal, to offer to
provide your partner with no reciprocation oral sex, right?
Show your partner that you want to please her first, no matter
what, without, without it being quid pro quo or I'm going to do
this and then you're going to do that, right?
It is it is one of those things that if you really want to be
part of this lifestyle, you can offer that to your wife.
That's not a bad place to start. And that's not even a really
hard thing to ask for. It isn't, it isn't because then
coming up that line as you continue on that path, I mean,
that's just an unselfish loving thing to do because she enjoys
it. Simple, simple.
Then you get to the next question, like, you know, does
she have any interest or want to take another lover?
You know, then you have to try that on in whatever small ways
that you step toward that. And there's no other way to do
it other than to have a sincere conversation about what you
want. Yeah, a real conversation, like
it's kind of intriguing, but I'm not sure.
Well, it's normal to not really be sure because that's kind of
how all of life works, but just take a step in some direction
and then be willing to talk about it.
I think that's the way through. I think that's the way through,
yeah. Because all along the way,
you'll be developing new communication techniques, you'll
possibly be touching on topics that you've never talked about
before, and all of that stuff opens.
They open little doors, they open little doors, and then
pretty soon you'll be able to open a bigger door.
Yeah, no question. And our mutual friend, Hubs hot
wife, he tried to talk his partner into this for years, for
years. She he didn't, he didn't pester,
he didn't beat her up over it, but he he asked her periodically
and she was always like, you know, I'm just not interested.
And it wasn't until he went to her and he was able to say,
listen, I would really like you to try this for me because it
would turn me on and I'd like you to at least try it.
And she was like, all right, fine, as long as you'll shut up
if I try. And I don't like it.
And I'm just, I don't want to. I don't want to.
I don't want to keep everybody in suspense.
It turns out she really, really liked it.
It. But it was it was providing her
with the right words, making her understand what what it was that
he wanted that made it all possible for them.
And now they're living an amazing life.
Well, and that, you know, and that's you have to find your own
technique for some women, I think they don't want to
necessarily do it for you. They've got to find their own
reason, some kind of a way. And and so, you know, one of the
things that I've shared with other women who were hesitant
about considering is that I mean, think about this like, how
did you date in college or when you were at a younger stage of
life? This is like having a loving,
secure partner in your home and then still being able to sample
the smorgasbord of other delicious men out there at your
will. I mean, it's as close to the
cake and eat it too syndrome that you're ever gonna have.
It's that's a conversation will make make difference to another
woman. Maybe it's the self sacrifice of
pleasing the husband for one another one.
It might be the cake and eat it too.
But either way, you've got to find you.
You've got to find your keys to talking to your partner very
deeply like that. And everybody does this
differently. And there's.
No. One right way, yeah.
And there's no wrong way to do it, as long as you're both
happy. As long as you're both happy and
you're not so in misery with the people that you bring into your
relationship, then however you do it, people like am IA cock in
my steak? Well who gives a shit?
What do you think? Who cares?
What do you think you are, you know.
Don't ask me what you are, tell me what you are.
That is another element. I mean, we could probably talk
for about 6 hours here, but we won't, we won't.
We won't do that today, but that whole element I've, I've had
this conversation with several people lately that I want to
drop all of the descriptive terms.
It it's just that saying we are, you know, we our dynamic is A1
sided. Ethical.
Non monogamous. Yeah, ethical.
No, it's just a mouthful. And so recently, and because our
situation is changing a little bit recently, what we've come up
with is we don't tell people unless they ask.
If we ask, we we tell the truth. Recently we've just gone to,
we're polyamorous. We're polyamorous.
It's it's less wordy than a consensual non monogamy 1 sided
thing. It's closer to what it's closer
to what we actually want to live anyway.
And so, but it's some sometimes the terms are a huge mountain to
get over. And I'm just saying if you're
hung up on the term, don't get hung up on that term.
It's not a mountain you have to wrestle with.
If if cock brings all sorts of shame and all sorts of judgement
and all sorts of whatever it is that you perceive that it
inspires and other people, then drop it.
Find another way to describe that you have an alternative
arrangement with your partner. You can be anything you want.
You can be anything you want, but I know a lot of people get
hung up on the term and the term has been burdened with shame and
all sorts of things throughout history, not just recently, but
throughout history. So if that if the term itself is
in the way, drop it. Find another way to describe
what your interests are and be good with it.
Be good with it. It'll make it.
Anything you can do to make it easier for yourself and your
partner and not have to battle uphill against everybody else's
judgement, the better it'll be for you and the more you can get
down to the to to the depths of what you want to get down to.
Well, just like what you're doing, our show is all about,
and I, I mean, and it's all about how to normalize this
lifestyle for everyone for, and I don't mean that everybody
should be in this lifestyle. Not everybody should.
Not all women can do it. Not all men can do it.
There, it's a, it's a subset. There's no question about it.
But everybody that's interested or curious, even if you're
curious, there's a way to normalize this in a way that you
don't have to bring all the shame and all of the guilt and
all of the that stuff in the door with you.
It's a way to understand how you can be with your partner and in
the world without the burden of all of the rest of it.
That that that comes with Porn World.
And as I was saying, one of the one of the goals of our show is
not just to normalize it for cucks and for cuckold dresses
and for stags and vixens. It's to bring some normalcy to
it for the average person out there who doesn't think about it
very often. Maybe if they hear our show,
because we, we like to think that we're a little thoughtful
about how we approach this. They're like, oh, well, there's
nothing really wrong with that. I don't want to do it, but
there's nothing wrong with it. That sounds like they're having
a great time, right, Right. We're trying to demystify and
open up conversations for people that are different than, hey, do
you want to get your end wet? Or hey, if you listen to this,
maybe you'll get an erection. Right, right.
Well, I applaud you guys. I'm I'm so grateful that you're
here. We needed just some good strong
cut voices on that side of the fence and I'm really very, very
grateful for everything that you guys have done and we're.
We're having a wonderful time doing it, we really are.
Yeah. And and that's, you know, that's
good that, you know that joy spreads, it spreads around.
We are all really good friends and I, if you listen to our show
and, and hopefully, hopefully this will get more people will
listen to our show. But if you listen to our show,
what you're gonna hear is people who are since who sincerely care
about each other, having conversations that they're
interested in. And it's.
Yeah, no, that's right. And.
Like the episode we just dropped last week and, and this was
episode 14. It was an impromptu episode.
Aussie had a story he wanted to tell and we all got together and
I thought, well, we're going to talk for about 10 minutes on
this one. It's kind of short.
It was over an hour and we just we went on and on about and we
were laughing and having a wonderful time.
This lifestyle leads to conversations and, and
relationships that you can't even begin to imagine when
you're when you're sitting there across from your wife trying to
think, right? How do I explain to her that I
wanted to fuck somebody else? That's, that's just the
beginning. If you can get through that
conversation, trust me, the people in this lifestyle are,
for the most part, absolutely amazed.
Yeah, that's right. That is, that's also our
experience. We have found the most
absolutely remarkable people in this lifestyle, people that are,
you know, we would just meet them one time.
We met a group of people at a a lifestyle event a couple years
ago. And I'll just say, you know,
these are people that are ride or die friends forever.
You know, that camaraderie, it's you just don't pick that up
everywhere. You know, and as you get older
and you start seeing your friends drop away, just just
that alone is worth at least trying it on mentally and seeing
if there's a way to be more intimate with yourself, more
intimate with your partner, more intimate with your friends.
And this may or may not be your path.
Yeah, but it's a good one. But it's a good one.
Yeah, 100%. And at the very least, if
you're, if you're interested in it and you start the
conversation about it, you're going to learn more about who
you are as a human being, whether you whether it leads to
Caguldingo, whether it leads to being a stag vixen, or whether
it leads you just to being vanilla.
Be like, all right, we thought about that.
It doesn't really work. Whatever, you're having deeper
conversations. That's right.
And I think too, just the the fostering of curiosity.
I think sometimes people get locked into their little
mindsets and their little worlds and they cease being curious.
Be curious. Just be curious.
You may, it may not be for you, but if you're just curious, you
might learn some things. You might learn one or two new
ways to talk to your spouse about something.
And you may never try this ever at all.
But but be curious. Curiosity is key, right?
We say it all the time in our little group.
We stole it from Ted Lassen. We stole it from all women.
Yes, be curious. Be curious, not judgmental.
Yes, Right. Instead of saying that's exactly
it. Why the fuck would you do that?
Saying oh that's interesting, why would you do that?
Tell me why you would do it. Yeah, yeah.
Let me learn more about that. I mean, Ted Lasso, my hero.
I think that we need to Ted. We need to Ted Lasso the world.
I am so, so happy to have talked to you.
Hopefully. I think we could literally sit
here and talk for five more hours, but we'll break it up in
a few more sessions. And we're gonna have to.
We're gonna have to get with that Rascal Aussie and and spank
him roundly for, you know, missing our session today.
But I tried yesterday and today to be like when are we actually
meeting? Yeah, well, yeah, he's a busy
guy and just coincidentally lives on the other side of the
planet. So, you know, there is that
little logistical thing, time change thing, but.
I'm not, I'm not going to beef with Aussie because he does all
the editing. So Aussie, if you're listening,
I still love you baby. That's right, we're we're only
very mildly chastising you and we appreciate everything that
you do and we'll look forward to picking this up and 'cause I
would like to get Aussie's take on all this too.
He's. A wise He's a wise, wise man
you. Know I get to talk to him very
often and he is I, I one of my closest friends in the world and
every once in a while I'll just sit back and I again being a
narcissist, I go back and listen to the old episodes of our show
try to figure out how to how to do it better.
What's missing what. But every time I hear him talk
like God, this guy's smart. Yeah, he is.
He's just, he's talent. He's talented in so many ways.
And he knows who he is. He he knows who he is as a human
being. And that's no small thing.
And he's just, he's very, very genuine as a human.
And I would say, you know, just from my own, you know, sort of
cursory exposure to all of you guys, that that's something that
you the my life guys all have in common.
I think you all share that quality, which is which makes
your your show so valuable because it's not easy in today's
world to find a group of men that are so self aware and so
thoughtful about how they're showing up in the world, how
they treat their wives, how they interact with each other.
I mean, you guys are an incredibly great example for the
world and I appreciate the heck out of you.
That's very kind of you to say. So that's it for us today.
Thank you again. Hopeful we will get, we will
schedule another time and and wrangle Aussie and get him in
here and pick his brain a little bit 'cause we just got a lot to
talk about. I mean, that's just, we just do.
Amen, Sister. Amen.
And. I'll put your contact
information too and your podcast in the show notes so you guys
can go find the Cock My Life podcast.
It's very, very worthwhile and be curious.
Not what you. Can say just be curious.
Be curious not. Judgmental.
That's it all. That's it.
All day. Ted.
Lassowitz, Crystal. Thank you for this opportunity.
And I just want to tell you again how much I really
appreciate your voice and the lifestyle.
And we are so grateful that you, you you visited with us and that
you're asking us to visit with you.
It's really been a positive experience and thanks for
talking. To me, yeah, it's very, very
mutual. Thank you so much and and we
will talk again.