1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,320
Our thing was James would drop 
me off, be my Uber and then pick

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,400
me up. 
And then when he picked me up in

3
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:11,680
the car, I was still like numb 
from the amazing sex I had and I

4
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,760
just couldn't open up, you know,
I just, I couldn't talk about 

5
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,000
it. 
So he thought I was holding 

6
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,680
back. 
But what it was was I was just 

7
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,320
trying to process what happened.
And then we get to start 

8
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,120
watching the videos and he sees 
how the passion and the 

9
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,440
chemistry and he's like, Oh my 
God, like I can't watch this. 

10
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,480
Hey everybody, I just wanted to 
give you a quick notice. 

11
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,200
I am starting to offer a 
one-on-one coaching session. 

12
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,000
It's called ask Crystal. 
It is coaching for individuals 

13
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,040
and couples as they explore 
ethical non monogamy, whatever 

14
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,160
your dynamic is. 
I've been living in this dynamic

15
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,040
for 10 years and I've learned a 
ton. 

16
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,080
And I hope to share some of that
wisdom with you in the hopes 

17
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,280
that it will help you. 
So you'll get the details in the

18
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,040
show notes and I hope to see you
there. 

19
00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:15,320
Hello Crystal Well Chair, I am 
super excited to introduce a 

20
00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:19,920
friend of mine. 
We actually met at a lifestyle 

21
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,920
event a year or two ago and she 
just is such a super quality 

22
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,320
person. 
So I would like to introduce 

23
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,480
cuckoldress Anne and also her 
He's not going to be talking 

24
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,960
with us today, but her, her 
lovely husband. 

25
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,320
He, he's a incredible gentleman 
too. 

26
00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:41,880
James and so welcome Anne. 
I'm so glad you're here. 

27
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,000
Thanks. 
I'm thrilled to be here, so 

28
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,880
appreciate it. 
It's been a while since I've 

29
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,480
been on a podcast so, but was 
really looking forward to this. 

30
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,800
Yeah. 
And I, you know, one of the 

31
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,000
things that I learned at this I,
I don't go to lifestyle parties 

32
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,920
as a rule, but it was such a 
glorious one. 

33
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,200
And we met so many great cut 
couples. 

34
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,760
It was the high point of the 
whole weekend for me and I 

35
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,479
think. 
I mean, I would have to agree. 

36
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,920
And it's, you know, one of the 
sad things about it is that you 

37
00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,360
don't do that every weekend or 
at least once a month or 

38
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,400
something like that, you know, 
and, and so it's great to be 

39
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,600
able to reconnect with you and, 
and carry on and see what's new 

40
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,280
and what's changed and things 
like that. 

41
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,080
So anyway, I'm really glad 
you're here. 

42
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,760
Anne also has a very good blog 
and I'll have our producer put 

43
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:40,800
her blog link into the show 
notes so that you can, you can 

44
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,240
read some of her writing 'cause 
it's, it's very, very good, very

45
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,640
genuine and really gives you an 
insight into, you know, they're 

46
00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:53,360
thinking her and her husband as 
a cuckold couple. 

47
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,120
So one of the things, one of the
topics that the last article 

48
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:03,200
that I read, the last blog post 
that I read was about cuck angst

49
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,080
and cuckoldrus angst. 
And that caught my attention. 

50
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,040
And I wonder if you wouldn't 
describe from your understanding

51
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,240
what both of those are and then 
explain your experience having 

52
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,520
cuckoldrus angst and where that 
comes from. 

53
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,240
I think that would be very 
informative. 

54
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:28,320
Well, on my, from my viewpoint 
and also learning through James 

55
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,240
over these last what, 7 years 
where we've discovered, you 

56
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:39,040
know, the term cuckolding. 
It's, it's when he he loves it, 

57
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,520
but he hates it. 
You know, it's almost like an 

58
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:48,280
emotional masochism. 
He wants to see me in this 

59
00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,880
passionate space with another 
man, especially at, you know, I 

60
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,400
love tall black men who just 
have this bravado and he loves 

61
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,520
it. 
But then he's also like, how 

62
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:05,560
come I can't do that anymore? 
And so to me, that's the angst. 

63
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,480
It's him. 
But he it's his jam. 

64
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,560
As hard as it is, it's his jam. 
He wants that because he knows 

65
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,399
that I'm getting what I want 
when he gets that. 

66
00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,839
But when I when he gets that 
way, he knows that I'm in a good

67
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,080
space, but it's hard for him to 
witness. 

68
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,680
So it's one of those things. 
A long time ago I was on AI. 

69
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,120
Don't know if I was on a podcast
with Venus. 

70
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,440
And it's just like, guys, be 
careful what you wish for. 

71
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,480
This is not an easy an easy 
path. 

72
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,160
You know, you say you want this.
Oh, it's gonna be hot. 

73
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,680
I'm gonna see my wife fucking. 
Well, we started out in the 

74
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,720
swinging space and we've always 
been adventurous, trying new 

75
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:50,520
things. 
And I think the so him watching 

76
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,080
me have sex or seeing a Dick go 
into my pussy, that's nothing. 

77
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,360
I mean, that's, that's, that's 
porn. 

78
00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,800
You know, he, he's seen that 
what he likes to see is the, as 

79
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,480
he says, the forest, not the 
trees. 

80
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:03,800
And that's what drives. 
Him wild. 

81
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,080
And he can be Moody. 
He's an intense guy. 

82
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,440
He's a deep thinker and will 
overthink it and will think 

83
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,440
himself into doubt. 
But on the other, it's, you 

84
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,400
know, they'll say they want it, 
they love it, and they hate. 

85
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,960
It but he sounds so much like 
bitchard. 

86
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,920
That's the same thing very 
intense, very intellectual and 

87
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,200
intensely loves this. 
I think he's kind of gotten over

88
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,200
his cock angst in in that way. 
I mean, he's just into the pure 

89
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,200
joy of it now. 
But it's that thing that you 

90
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:47,920
just alluded to, the watching. 
To me, that's what Compersion is

91
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,880
watching the person he loves 
most in the world in pure 

92
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,840
passion and pure joy and just 
the energy of it, you know, 

93
00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:00,040
because I don't care who you are
after you've been married a long

94
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,320
time, you can't sustain that 
intensity. 

95
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:09,480
And I think that's a lot of what
draws people into some form of 

96
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,880
consensual non monogamy or just 
cheating because it's like that 

97
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,800
new relationship energy and it's
beautiful to watch. 

98
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:22,440
But I think, you know, James's 
experience is probably much more

99
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:28,160
common than than not because you
love it and you hate it. 

100
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,320
You know, you love to see her 
excited and and it's a little 

101
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,320
worrisome to you. 
So that's the thing that you 

102
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,080
juggle. 
Right. 

103
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:43,000
And years ago I had my by 
curiosity came out and I'm like,

104
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,040
you know, I wonder what it would
be like to be with a woman. 

105
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,760
I was probably like late 30s, 
early 40s. 

106
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,480
And he's like, you should just 
try. 

107
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,440
This is how we were. 
Go for it. 

108
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,960
Try it. 
You don't know unless you. 

109
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,760
Probably you don't know and. 
So, you know, this was when you 

110
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,160
put ads in like the underground 
papers, you know, there wasn't 

111
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,080
the Internet searches and we at 
the time. 

112
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,440
And so I looked for lots of 
different women. 

113
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,840
But then I went, there was a 
lesbian bar not far from her 

114
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,200
house. 
And it we're in a, you know, 

115
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,800
pretty good area and it was in a
safe location. 

116
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,200
And I started going there on 
Friday nights after the kids 

117
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,680
went to bed, he'd watch them. 
And I ended up meeting a woman 

118
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,520
and we were in love and we had a
really intense relationship for 

119
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,920
about two years where she went 
on vacation with us. 

120
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,120
The kids just knew her, you 
know, as Debbie. 

121
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,080
And that was James first 
experience with angst because he

122
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,160
saw this and I think he felt. 
It wasn't just a sexual thing. 

123
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,040
Yeah, it wasn't just sexual. 
It was a real involvement, 

124
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,440
right? 
And she was not bisexual and so 

125
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,080
when she stayed over it was 
James me in the middle and her. 

126
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,880
But there was never any. 
She had no no interest in a man.

127
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,080
So there was never any 3 way or 
threesome like any scene 

128
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,480
swinging. 
So that was our first, you know,

129
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,840
when we discovered the term 
cuckolding, thinking back and 

130
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,000
kind of reading more, it's just 
like, aha, that was this was we 

131
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,120
were doing this a long time. 
We just didn't know. 

132
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,720
We didn't know, right? 
But that's, you know, but that's

133
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,080
also where you touch on 
compersion that where you get 

134
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,360
beyond the angst and find joy in
your partner's joy. 

135
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,679
That's that's a very evolved 
concept and it's a very evolved 

136
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,640
couple that can reach that. 
And so that was probably 20. 

137
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,000
It was probably 20 years ago or 
so. 25. 

138
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,360
I'm not gonna like, I'm not 
gonna give the real years ago. 

139
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,960
But we have matured and grown 
together so much since that. 

140
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:56,440
And then even since I wrote my 
last blog post, we have come a 

141
00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,520
long way, you know, emotionally 
together as a couple stronger. 

142
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,400
So much easier to talk about 
things when things are either 

143
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,600
pester, you know, pestering, or 
you really wanna talk about 

144
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,280
these emotions you're feeling 
with these other men that you 

145
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,520
engage with so. 
Right, right. 

146
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,160
Yeah. 
Powerful, powerful stuff. 

147
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,400
This is the stuff I think that's
worth writing and talking about 

148
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:27,240
because everybody gets off on 
the salacious aspects of any 

149
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,520
kind of sex stuff. 
But when you get into the real 

150
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,840
inner workings of this dynamic 
and you see how it plays out in 

151
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:41,160
a real couple's life and how 
profoundly intimate these 

152
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,560
conversations are because you're
you're going way deep. 

153
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,720
And that's just not a place that
every couple goes to or can go 

154
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,840
to. 
And so well, I've said for a 

155
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,920
long time, I think cuckold men 
are an are a higher life form. 

156
00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,720
They're just more evolved. 
They, they have had to master 

157
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,360
themselves. 
They've had to master their own 

158
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:08,400
insecurities and their own oh, 
proprietary sense that they had 

159
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,640
might have had ever over a 
woman. 

160
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,960
And I, I just think it puts them
on a higher platform. 

161
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,040
And so I'm, I'm so glad to hear 
your story. 

162
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,960
You know, I, I didn't know that 
about you. 

163
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,680
And it compels me to share that 
I had one of those experiences 

164
00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,000
too. 
It was before I met Rich. 

165
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:32,360
It was in, you know, when I was 
single and I met a woman at a 

166
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,920
business meeting. 
And Long story short, she came 

167
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,160
over and it was on and we stayed
together for about a year. 

168
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,280
But it was real love. 
It was real love. 

169
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,920
I mean, it was women are 
completely different than men. 

170
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,720
I'm just so glad that I had the 
experience because it rounded me

171
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,880
out in a way, and I haven't 
pursued that since. 

172
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,280
But I don't regret having had it
at all. 

173
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,720
At all. 
Well, and I think finding those 

174
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,960
real, those real connections in 
this lifestyle, whatever it's 

175
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,480
with a man or a woman is so 
rare. 

176
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,280
You know, you, if you started 
out swinging, you go to what we 

177
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,600
got tired of. 
It just seems so superficial. 

178
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,640
Like, we have met some fantastic
friends, you know, that we don't

179
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,440
have sex with, but, you know, 
some of our best friends we've 

180
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,840
met through that. 
But, you know, you meet someone 

181
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,920
at a party. 
Like, I'll never forget this. 

182
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,520
It was, you know, not that far, 
probably 10 years or so. 

183
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,840
And there was a woman. 
And I don't try not to drink too

184
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,560
much when I go to these things 
'cause I like to keep my wits 

185
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:37,400
about me. 
And I just don't think I'm a 

186
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,440
pretty drunk, you know? 
So I mean, who is I get? 

187
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,320
Slop, I get sloppy, I pass out, 
you know, that sort of thing. 

188
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,120
So anyway, I met this woman and 
we started getting it on and it 

189
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,920
was so hot and I'm like, wow, 
maybe I found someone else I can

190
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,040
engage with because the physical
chemistry was just so on. 

191
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,160
And then her and her husband 
hosted an event, a party at 

192
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,880
their house. 
I don't know, a year later or 

193
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,440
maybe like six months later and 
she didn't want, she didn't even

194
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,920
acknowledge what, you know, that
those the moment that we had 

195
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,560
together and that was it 
frustrating to me. 

196
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,120
You know, it's like, come on, 
like what's what are you afraid 

197
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,040
of? 
That was so hot. 

198
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,440
Like were you, were you 
performing or I it seemed so 

199
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,320
intense. 
And I think some people just 

200
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,640
don't they're afraid to go a 
little bit further. 

201
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,600
I wasn't gonna, I wasn't 
insisting on a relationship, 

202
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,120
but. 
Yeah, but but to pursue, pursue 

203
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,880
that to where it could have 
gone. 

204
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,120
And I think that does happen 
with people. 

205
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,720
The intensity of something 
that's outside of their normal 9

206
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,480
dots scares them. 
It scares them. 

207
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,520
And they, and they're, you know,
they're afraid that maybe they 

208
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,160
might get carried away or, you 
know, something will interfere 

209
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,200
with the equilibrium of their 
life. 

210
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,280
And so I think I, I think that's
probably pretty common too, 

211
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,160
especially when people are 
exploring by things. 

212
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,200
I I think that's especially 
true. 

213
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,160
Yeah, but I even, well, that's a
whole other subject. 

214
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:15,120
But even in as we, you and I 
look for the black gentleman 

215
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,280
that turn us on, it's less like 
some of them are so superficial.

216
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:21,720
Someone said, oh, they're 
hunters. 

217
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,440
They just kind of go from one to
another and yeah, they're afraid

218
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:31,320
of getting, you know, too 
emotionally attached. 

219
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,080
And that is, I mean, and I don't
wanna force a narrative, but 

220
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,720
when you can't just create and 
make a sustainable connection, 

221
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,720
friendship, like right, why? 
Why does it have to be so hard? 

222
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,160
So. 
Yeah, and it's we can all guess 

223
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,080
at why so many black men do 
that. 

224
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,800
I'm sure white men do that too, 
but I don't do white men. 

225
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,520
So I, I don't have any frame or 
reference there, but I think it 

226
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,440
is, you know, for, for many of 
them, it is a numbers game. 

227
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,680
They don't want to get too, they
don't want to fuel anybody's 

228
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:13,280
expectations that they're going 
to be around longer than maybe 

229
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,880
they intend to be. 
And it's really frustrating. 

230
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,040
So I know I've heard, I think 
you and I have touched on this 

231
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,920
topic before, but it brings me 
to my next question of I know 

232
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,280
you've mentioned a time or two. 
I think you mentioned in that, 

233
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:32,920
that blog post that I read that,
you know, in an ideal world, you

234
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,600
and James would find sort of 
like a permanent third where it 

235
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,520
would be a regular permanent, 
you know, partner that you could

236
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,320
make a real relationship with. 
Is that still something that 

237
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,400
you're interested in, you know? 
We've evolved since then. 

238
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:55,720
I think I have discovered that I
have a slut slutty side and I do

239
00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:04,040
like variety and though having a
non like, if you will, a slutty 

240
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,160
boyfriend who's, you know, 
there's non monogamy, but we 

241
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,640
have a deeper connection. 
You know, that's kind of what 

242
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,600
I'm seeking now. 
I'm at one point, you know, 

243
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,200
we're like, oh, maybe we have 
someone and he moves in, but 

244
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,480
then it's like, well, the 
reality of it and then are you 

245
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,080
gonna limit your sexual freedom 
if you have someone move in? 

246
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,760
You know what, in a fantasy 
world, it seems great, but you 

247
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,800
know, all the cards would have 
to just everything. 

248
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,400
The everything would just have 
to play out perfectly when you 

249
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,880
talk about the reality of all 
that, right? 

250
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,480
And not just the sex part, the 
just just the. 

251
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,720
Realities of day-to-day living, 
yeah. 

252
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,480
How how would all that work? 
Yeah. 

253
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,320
And you know, I've got like 22 
married adult children. 

254
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,920
Like how is all that gonna 
interface and how much 

255
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,400
explaining? 
But but also just to have more 

256
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:03,360
fun. 
I like, you know, meeting men, 

257
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,600
what I like to have. 
And I have probably three or 

258
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,400
four men here that I really 
enjoy. 

259
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,200
But everybody is so busy. 
If I could find someone who 

260
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,800
lived close and wasn't afraid of
an emotional attachment and we 

261
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,720
could, you know, get together 
every once a month, that would 

262
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,480
be ideal. 
Knowing that we're both safe and

263
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,120
we're both exploring other 
things. 

264
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,960
Yeah. 
I don't know if I'm explaining 

265
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,600
myself, I but we don't. 
We've really come a long way. 

266
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:42,080
Having someone like just move in
just isn't something that does 

267
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,920
anything for me anymore. 
And maybe, and I'm not to say 

268
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,440
that will never happen, but 
yeah. 

269
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,760
And we've sort of evolved the 
other way. 

270
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:59,680
I think part of my wanting of a 
permanent move in 3rd is the 

271
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,280
sheer frustration of all the 
fakes and flakes that we've run 

272
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,920
into. 
I mean, we're in a, we're in a 

273
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,520
diversity wasteland in Portland 
and it's so hard. 

274
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,520
So everybody's out of state and 
the, and the difficulty of 

275
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,160
navigating all that. 
So we've talked about it for a 

276
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,079
long time. 
We, we would love to have a 

277
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,359
third that we could get really 
involved with and he would sort 

278
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,360
of be the black head of 
household. 

279
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,960
And how would that look on on a 
day-to-day basis? 

280
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,520
And you know, same thing. 
How would we explain this to our

281
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,760
neighbors and our and you know, 
our my kid. 

282
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,120
Well, I would say never say 
never. 

283
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,560
You know, I don't. 
I'm somebody who isn't gonna say

284
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,400
that's not gonna happen. 
But it's not at such a driving 

285
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,280
force anymore only because the 
reality of it, if I don't think 

286
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,480
I want someone in here like head
of house, you know, the black 

287
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:03,920
male, the black head of house. 
But as I'm saying that today, I 

288
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,200
could change my mind next month.
You know, it just depends on the

289
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,800
dynamic of the relationship that
you established with this 

290
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,520
person. 
And you know, everything 

291
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:21,120
develops over time and grows. 
But I did have one, I have one 

292
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:26,720
lover A in my blog, He somebody 
I've known for, I don't know, 15

293
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,560
years. 
And there was a point where his 

294
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,920
office, he moved jobs and his, 
his office was literally like 

295
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,080
less than a mile from here, my 
house. 

296
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,960
And I remember when that 
happened, I took him out for 

297
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,800
lunch and I'm like, you know, 
would you be my bull like I 

298
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,600
need? 
And he's like, sure. 

299
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,720
But he would come over, you 
know, in his lunch hour during 

300
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,120
the day several times a week. 
But it got to be boring. 

301
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,840
I mean, it just got to be kind 
of boring because. 

302
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,640
Sort of routine. 
Yeah, I was always in my room 

303
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,520
like so much for the marital bed
was just not very exciting. 

304
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,560
At some point, you know, it's 
just like, OK, well, we need a 

305
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,600
change of scenery. 
But see he was married and so he

306
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,280
would only married with a hall 
pass. 

307
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:20,760
So supposedly I've never and it 
it got old, but I think if you 

308
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:25,640
found the right person and you 
could do a lot with and you 

309
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,520
could travel with, I think 
that'd be great. 

310
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,720
So. 
Bichard and I are both very 

311
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:39,240
intense and we have a real we 
both share a a pretty high 

312
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,320
intellectual level of what what 
interests us. 

313
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,000
We're interested in really 
delving into intimacy. 

314
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,400
What is it? 
How do you build it? 

315
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,240
What does it take? 
Not just the physical stuff, 

316
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,520
it's like, how do you really get
inside someone's soul and be 

317
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,840
comfortable delving it? 
Because that is just limitless. 

318
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,720
That is just limitless. 
And I think that's where we 

319
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,880
that's where we found the most 
excitement with each other is 

320
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,600
like really dive in deep. 
Dive in deep. 

321
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,720
And what would you say in this, 
in this current phase of your 

322
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,720
life? 
It sounds like you you need some

323
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,680
variety and how are you finding 
the people that you're 

324
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,880
connecting with? 
You know, when I say variety, 

325
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,520
it's only because the people 
that I connect with seem to be 

326
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,640
single or married, have kids, 
work, you know, are 

327
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,320
professionals and just don't 
have a lot of time. 

328
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,680
So right now I think it's 
impossible to, I haven't had 

329
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,880
luck finding, you know, a single
person. 

330
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,160
That's why I decided not to get 
so hung up on that. 

331
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:57,040
But I have met, you know, a 
couple of people on lifestyle 

332
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,440
Lounge and then Lifestyle Lounge
and it's kind of like phased out

333
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,080
and we're on SDC. 
Haven't really met anyone. 

334
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,880
I've met a few people there, but
not locally. 

335
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,640
I think a lot of like the guys 
that go to Splash and that Texas

336
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:20,240
SW are on SDC and then Midwest 
also and then Cassidy is kind of

337
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:27,520
the newest lifestyle site. 
I haven't we created tried to 

338
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:33,480
create a Fetlife a long time ago
because we were kind of we had 

339
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,240
some good friends swinging that 
we met through swinging who are 

340
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,720
really into BDSM and they're 
like, oh, you need to be on 

341
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,880
Fetlife. 
But at the time we didn't 

342
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,000
locally, we didn't see anything 
that really got us excited. 

343
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,640
So I need to get back on to felt
life and see if I can find men 

344
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,760
who don't come through the 
swinger space. 

345
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,920
Sometimes I think when you meet 
men that come through the 

346
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:04,480
swinger space, they're they 
don't always appreciate the 

347
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,800
cuckold dynamic. 
You know they say they do, but 

348
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,040
they don't. 
They don't understand it, they 

349
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,040
don't understand it and then 
they're likely to judge it as 

350
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,960
well. 
So it's it's more difficult. 

351
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,680
Right. 
And and then I've met people 

352
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,400
through like word of mouth or 
this friend in LA, it's like, I 

353
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,160
want you to meet. 
I would really love for you to 

354
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,720
meet, you know, this person. 
And so that it's worked out that

355
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,240
way too. 
But for the most part, the 

356
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,960
gentleman I've had, I met, I met
somebody through black to white 

357
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:44,680
of all places. 
But again, he's really fun, but 

358
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,080
he's probably 40 minutes away 
and he's a single dad raising a 

359
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,600
child on his own. 
So going back and so it's but 

360
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,360
most mainly it's been the swing 
sites 'cause that's just what we

361
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,640
were comfortable with. 
And at one point James was in 

362
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,160
charge and now he's, he doesn't 
do any of it. 

363
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,360
I'm all I'm in charge. 
He doesn't do any like vetting 

364
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,560
or pre screening. 
There wouldn't be a whole lot to

365
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,160
screen anyway. 
It's not like, you know, you put

366
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,400
a search in for the, you know, 
the black gentleman in Phoenix 

367
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,200
And I've, I've met them all, you
know? 

368
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,880
That's that's me too. 
Portland there's. 

369
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,440
Four of them here, and I've met 
all of them and none of them are

370
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,160
the right guy. 
So let's circle back. 

371
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,440
We started to talk. 
You described in some detail 

372
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,680
what James experienced with cuck
angst. 

373
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,400
Talk about how you experience 
cuckoldrous angst. 

374
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,880
What causes angst for you in 
this process? 

375
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:52,240
I think what causes cuckoldrous 
angst stems from this long 

376
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,160
standing relationship that James
and I have. 

377
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,480
I'm a very sensitive person and 
always worry about other 

378
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,200
people's feelings, in particular
his. 

379
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,720
And so for instance, an 
experience, you know, cuckolders

380
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,760
angst is I'm just gonna talk 
about this one thing. 

381
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:21,840
So finally meet somebody local 
and the sex is great, you know, 

382
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,000
doesn't live far and James has 
met him super. 

383
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,160
He's like, oh wow, he's got it 
so nice. 

384
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,200
He's very warm person. 
This is great. 

385
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,880
But what would happen is I would
go say, say, go to his house. 

386
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,360
And then our thing was James 
would drop me off, be my Uber 

387
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,920
and then pick me up. 
And then when he picked me up in

388
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:49,200
the car, I was still like numb 
from the amazing sex I had and I

389
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,560
just couldn't open up. 
You know, I just, I couldn't 

390
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,480
talk about it. 
So he thought I was holding 

391
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,160
back. 
But what it was was I was just 

392
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,840
trying to process what happened.
And then we get to start 

393
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,600
watching the videos, and he sees
how the passion and the 

394
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,480
chemistry, and he's like, oh, my
God. 

395
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,000
Like, I can't watch this. 
You know, at one time, I think 

396
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,960
he closed. 
Yeah, I think we're watching on 

397
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,520
an iPad. 
I was like, I just can't watch 

398
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,080
this. 
And so I became a little 

399
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,560
hesitant to share too much 
because I was afraid it's going 

400
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,320
to hurt his feelings. 
And now we've learned so much 

401
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,400
through that experience that we 
can watch those moments together

402
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760
on. 
And he enjoys editing those. 

403
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,040
Like there's two men that I get 
with that. 

404
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,000
There's this deep physical 
connection when we fuck. 

405
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,400
And he's like, these are the 
things I love to edit. 

406
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,680
As hard as it, you know, it's 
kind of contradictory. 

407
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,480
And so I think what I worry 
about is, is he OK? 

408
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Is he gonna be OK? 
You know, instead of worrying 

409
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,320
about am I gonna be OK, I'm 
worried about, like, how is 

410
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,840
James gonna feel? 
And he would get irritated with 

411
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,440
me. 
He's like, come on, Like, this 

412
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,560
is part of it. 
So sometimes he has to correct 

413
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,320
me to just, you know, go for it,
don't you don't have to ask for 

414
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,440
my permission to do things 
'cause even though I find the 

415
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,760
men, I set up the dates, I still
feel like I need his validation,

416
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,160
but I don't. 
And he's like, you know, come 

417
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,720
on, like, because I worry that 
he's going to react in a way and

418
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,800
I'm going to hurt his feelings. 
So I think that was it. 

419
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,640
And, but the first time I 
witnessed the cuckold angst was 

420
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,000
with my, that woman that I was 
dating because I experienced 

421
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,640
angst, but I was, I didn't 
experience it like I've 

422
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,360
experienced now because I'm, you
know, I'm a little bit older, I 

423
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,400
have more experience, you know, 
we don't like to say the word 

424
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,480
old, but you know, I have more 
wisdom and now I have more, I 

425
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,280
well, and also I have more 
confidence. 

426
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,160
But it is learning your, the 
cues that your cock is giving 

427
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,720
off and he can get really quiet 
and Moody. 

428
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,000
And then I'm like, like, what's 
happening here? 

429
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,280
I know. 
So some but but he but but also 

430
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,800
he's like I want. 
I wish you wouldn't tell me when

431
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,920
you have dates. 
Just go, like, I would love to 

432
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,520
just be surprised. 
So I feel like I have to ask, I 

433
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,800
need to tell him. 
And he goes, I wish he wouldn't 

434
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,120
tell me. 
Like, you don't have to tell me 

435
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,440
everything. 
So we've come a long way since I

436
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,480
wrote about it, you know, a year
and a half ago. 

437
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,720
So that's my next. 
That's what I'm going to start 

438
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,120
writing about, I think. 
What? 

439
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,880
Is it your perception now that 
you've kind of gone through that

440
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:41,520
learning curve, that that 
anxiety that he feels is kind of

441
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,520
the draw for him too? 
I mean, it's, it's not a 

442
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,720
negative, actual negative thing.
It's like part of what he gets 

443
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,280
out of this, You know, that's a 
question I get all the time, 

444
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,360
like, well, what's your husband 
getting out of this? 

445
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,840
And I think part of it is that 
angst he wants to feel that he 

446
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,280
wants to feel that tension. 
He wants to feel that he, he 

447
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,400
just wants to feel that. 
Do you feel like that's 

448
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,720
happening with James too? 
Oh, I think, oh, definitely. 

449
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:15,000
I mean, he does want to feel 
that, but I still sometimes, you

450
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,480
know, instead of saying, well, 
just, you know, you need to just

451
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,120
suck it up. 
That's too bad you feel that 

452
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:20,720
way. 
You know, he may want to talk 

453
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,920
about it and then me just, you 
know, I've heard some, you know,

454
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:31,200
come some cuckolders may just 
let their cucks do and be. 

455
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,080
But I'm kind of somebody that 
doesn't like that kind of energy

456
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,160
around, you know. 
So I would rather as I would 

457
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,680
rather kind of get to the bottom
of it so we can move forward 

458
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:51,400
instead of and learn from it as 
opposed to always feeling like, 

459
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,320
did I do the right thing? 
Did I say the right thing? 

460
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,600
Did I share it the right way? 
But now when we see those 

461
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,280
videos, we like we love watching
them. 

462
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,760
I'm not, you know, I don't have 
those. 

463
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,160
I don't have that hesitation. 
But I think it's it's also 

464
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,080
indicative that your 
relationship itself is very 

465
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,400
evolved. 
I mean, if all couples 

466
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,640
communicated as carefully about 
such intimate details, you know,

467
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,000
I think there would be better 
marriages in the world. 

468
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,120
And and I think that's one of 
the things that this dynamic can

469
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,600
bring to the table that you have
access to if you take it. 

470
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,520
If you take it, you know, it's a
wonderful communication tool. 

471
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,120
And, you know, it touches me 
that you're so sensitive to his 

472
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,640
needs and, you know, tuned into 
what he might be feeling too. 

473
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,280
But that's that's a beautiful 
thing. 

474
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,360
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I do find 
that you as a man and you want 

475
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,760
to be a cuckold, you have to 
have a strong personality. 

476
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,640
But we're all human, right? 
Like everybody's going to feel 

477
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,480
vulnerable. 
And you have, you have to, we 

478
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,240
have to be vulnerable with each 
other. 

479
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,280
And that's sometimes that's not 
easy, you know, to let your 

480
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,120
guard down and just say what's 
on your mind. 

481
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:12,200
I think, you know, originally 
maybe, you know, he has this 

482
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,480
fear. 
He's so James and I had a very, 

483
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,360
very robust sex life and, you 
know, just some physical 

484
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,080
complications. 
Things aren't quite as they once

485
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,720
were. 
So he knows he can't provide it.

486
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,360
But sometimes he's like, well, 
why I, why can't I do that? 

487
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,320
So it's like, well, you can't 
because a you don't. 

488
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,520
Because you can't. 
I thought you had you. 

489
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,640
I thought you had bravado at one
point and but guess what? 

490
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,880
You don't. 
He's like, well, why do you let 

491
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,280
them spank you? 
You know, like I we when we 

492
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,440
tried BDSMI just could not. 
I didn't like him dominating me.

493
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,560
I didn't want him spanking me. 
I just tying me. 

494
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,920
I just thought it was silly, 
like no like. 

495
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,560
And that's not really the 
dynamic that your relations, 

496
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,360
your fundamental relationship 
was was founded on. 

497
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,280
So it's almost like play acting 
and that either fits or it 

498
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400
doesn't fit. 
Right. 

499
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,240
And so when you meet people and 
they have new, they introduce 

500
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,240
new ideas and new things just 
like, oh, we're gonna try this. 

501
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,600
And so we've tried so, so many 
things. 

502
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,200
This this would be a whole 
nother conversation of all the 

503
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,520
things we've done and tried 
together and what I didn't 

504
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,160
really like with James, where I 
love it with other men. 

505
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,280
And that's part of what gives me
angst. 

506
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,720
Is he gonna be OK with is he 
gonna have angst or is he just 

507
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,440
gonna be jealous or, you know, 
my and hopefully I answer the 

508
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,200
questions on cuckolder's angst. 
It's more just like, is he gonna

509
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480
be OK or. 
And it hasn't. 

510
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,560
It's really not, you know, And I
do experience, I guess, 

511
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,640
cuckolder's angst when I haven't
had a lover in three months. 

512
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,440
But now. 
But that's. 

513
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,080
Kinda. 
It's a different kind of angst 

514
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,520
where you that's a whole. 
That's a different. 

515
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,400
It's a different angst. 
Yeah, you've got just. 

516
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,800
A different. 
Concern for Jame, the concern 

517
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,600
for James angst and the I'm sad 
'cause I don't have a bull 

518
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,640
angst. 
You know the two separate 

519
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,040
things, but they're both angsty.
They're both angsty. 

520
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,040
They're. 
They're both angsty and so, you 

521
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,560
know, so, you know, women have 
to be strong too. 

522
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,840
And communication is so 
important. 

523
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,080
And yeah, honestly, James and 
I've had our best conversations 

524
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,440
in bed. 
That's that's our safe space. 

525
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,480
That's where we pretty much talk
about everything though. 

526
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,640
I could be making dinner and we 
talk about things come to mind, 

527
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,480
you know, and and it's not all 
serious. 

528
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,040
It's sexy, it's fun. 
It's not all just, you know, 

529
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,400
gloomy. 
It's very positive and upbeat 

530
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,000
most time so. 
Right, that's. 

531
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,680
But, but it's real, so that's 
the most important part. 

532
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:07,400
Yeah, well, you, you guys are a 
great demonstration about many 

533
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,360
of the most important elements 
of how to make a a cuck 

534
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,600
relationship work and be joyful 
and still function and not blow 

535
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,520
each other up. 
It's it's it's a beautiful 

536
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,240
thing. 
So I'm going to make some notes 

537
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,360
for myself so that our next 
topic, next time we talk, we can

538
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,760
take a deep, deep dive into some
of these other topics because 

539
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,840
you're a wealth of experience 
and sensitivity and knowledge. 

540
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,080
And I think our listeners would 
benefit from from hearing your 

541
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,280
perspective. 
So I want to thank you, thank 

542
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,280
you, thank you for spending some
of your time. 

543
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,640
It's been a delight. 
I wish we lived closer because 

544
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,800
we'd be doing coffee more often 
and stuff. 

545
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,960
But you know, if this is, this 
is a an acceptable substitute if

546
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,640
we can't do that. 
So anyway, thank you so much for

547
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,400
your time. 
OK. 

548
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,480
Well, thank you. 
I really, really enjoyed it. 

549
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,240
So look forward to the next one.
Yeah, yeah, we will connect and 

550
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,080
we will. 
We'll take another deep dive. 

551
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,719
Thank you so much, Anne. 
Thank you. 

552
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,080
And the way to find Anne's blog 
will be, as I mentioned, on the 

553
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,159
show notes, and you could go 
read some of her great stuff 

554
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,880
over there. 
There's some really sexy stuff 

555
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,080
over there too. 
I'm telling you, you'll like it.

556
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,800
Thank you. 
Until next time, Crystal Welch 

557
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,159
out.