Contrast is everything from me, Like I'm super white, light
hair, light eyes, and I love dark black men or any shade of
caramel, you know? So it's, it's, it's that
contrast. It's they carry their
masculinity differently than white men do.
They tend to be very confident and I love that contrast, that
sort of hyper masculinity, not in an obnoxious way, but just,
you know, just really masculine. I think that gives me permission
to really step into my femininity because I'm a strong
woman. I can, I can be pretty masculine
myself, you know? And so I like the contrast.
If somebody that's real, that's much bigger than me, that's
darker than me, that's, you know, more masculine than me.
Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice.
I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session.
It's called ask Crystal. It is coaching for individuals
and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy, whatever
your dynamic is, I've been living in this dynamic for 10
years and I've learned a ton. And I hope to share some of that
wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you.
So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you
there. Good afternoon and welcome Anne.
We are here again and with with my friend Anne.
And one of the reasons that we decided to do this together is
because she's been in the lifestyle way longer than I
have. But we both have a lot of
experience and there's a lot of questions and a lot of evolution
and a lot of change in thinking. And, and so we're here to sort
of tackle the questions that have come up for us.
So I want to encourage anybody that has a question about
anything in the podcast or if even if it's not to please leave
us a note. That's what we're here for.
We're here to answer questions the best that we can.
Welcome and hello, Anne. Hi Crystal, think it's so great
to be here again. Looking forward to what we talk
about. It's always entertaining and
thought provoking for me and hopefully the listeners too.
Yes, I hope so 'cause I know for me too.
After we're done with an episode and we think that we've covered
it pretty well, my brain will continue to go and I'll have
five more things that I wish I would have said at the.
End of it so safe. Today the question is an
interesting one. I've gotten this one so, so many
times. For anybody that's read my stuff
or listened to my pods before, I am black, only I don't have
lovers that are not black and so I don't have very many.
Is is The upshot of that? What if you want to keep score
it one more one thing we have in common.
Yes, yes, we, we both live in areas that are not terribly
diverse. And so, you know, we, we take it
as it comes. But anyway, today's topic is if
you could start over as single, would you choose a cuckolding
dynamic or not? And would you simply choose a
black man as your partner versus the white guy that you're
married to? So those are two completely
separate topics. We'll do the best we can to to
answer them both from our own perspectives and, and then we'll
go we'll go from there. And do you want to kick it off?
Let me just start with the first part of that.
If you could start over and you didn't know everything that you
know now would do you would you choose a cuckolding
relationship, do you think or, or you know, maybe revisit how
you evolve to this dynamic and then that would put a context.
Well, hopefully. I might know more than I knew,
but I, I truly think as far as the cuckolding dynamic is
something you have to grow into and build trust with your
partner. And maybe I would have that in
the back of my mind, but I wouldn't use that as the
defining moment of selecting my primary partner because for me,
you need to get to know someone right away.
And I think if I put in a like whatever field or fat life, you
know, I need a cuckold. Is it going to predetermine or
prescript something and then the true relationship won't form?
But I think because I'm, I would prefer it, you know, because of
just how I am, I think it's would be too hard to just say
this is what I'm doing. I think this is something that
develops within a relationship. I think you can have it in the
back of your mind and if you see it's not going anywhere or
you're with somebody who just is not willing to share and embrace
and try things, then you know I would end the relationship.
But I do love the cuckolding dynamic so I don't know if
that'd help if that answered the question.
This question is interesting because you and I have two
different backgrounds. You know, Anne and her spouse
have been married almost 40 years.
So they've had, you know, they started somewhere and then they
evolved over time and ended up in this dynamic, which I think
it sounds like it works for both of them, which is lovely.
You know, I'm different. I was married before.
I just over the course of that marriage, I determined that
monogamy wasn't for me. I felt like I had all the
responsibilities and obligations of marriage and none of the
benefits. And so when we divorced, I was
single for a long time, never thought to have another serious
relationship. But then I started to change, as
you do when you go along. And I thought, well, OK, if I'm
going to date again or if I want to put myself out there again,
what kind of relationship do I want and who?
Who would this person be? And I came up with cuckolding
right away because, as my dear favorite psychologist would say,
all humans have core conflicting needs in relationship, the need
for safety and security, which I did, and the need for adventure
and change, which I did. And so my solution for that was
to find a man who identified himself as a cuckold.
So literally, I came right out of the gate.
I put a just maybe A2 sentence ad in Craigslist years ago of
all places and and my dear Bitcher answered that ad.
We went out for a drink and here we are today, 10 years later.
So. So my answer is I did start out
with a cuckold relationship. If I would have known what
traditional monogamous marriage was going to end up like because
my former husband was a perfectly lovely human being.
He just was a terrible spouse. And you know, I might have had a
different idea then, but I was all in on monogamy and the white
picket fence and, you know, the whole deal until that whole
thing just blew up for me. So, so that's so we started in
very different places and ended up in the same destination at
the at the end of the day here. Yeah, well, I think if I'm
starting over, I definitely would want a non monogamous
relationship. I think what I was saying is I
don't know if I'm going to define cuckolding, but I'm going
to describe what I want that I want to be non monogamous
because that's just how I'm going to be the happiest.
Whether you know, yes, that would be a cuckolding dynamic
and maybe originally maybe I would allow or allow support my
spouse also being non monogamous, but I would want to
lead that non monogamy. So we've talked to to nookie,
you know, she pimps out her cock and I think I see doing that,
but I I do I would be non monogamous for sure because I
need I need variety to be happy that we've talked about this.
Not that I want connection, but I want I need variety and I like
a little bit of sluttiness too, a little, you know, impromptu
things that are one off that are sexy and fun.
That's OK too, but I would I would be non monogamous for
sure. For sure I agree with you that I
I could never commit to monogamy ever again.
It doesn't make any sense to me. I certainly plan to stay married
to my husband but we will never be monogamous.
We never wanted to be and we never we we.
We were non monogamous from day one and I that's something I
would definitely do again. So Bichard as he date other
women, no. And not the slightest interest
to do so. Right.
And so I, I think it's finding that that partner that's head
over heels for you and wants you to be happy.
And if it's going to be cuckold, that's the term cuckolding.
But I'm sometimes I wonder if I say I have to have a cuckold
dynamic that all of a sudden all the porn scenes will pop up and
that's going to be the driver. And that to me, that's
something, however you choose to practice cuckolding and what
kinks you have is something that develops over time.
But if someone comes in, it's like, Oh yeah, I want that
because I can do this and that. And, you know, fluff hurt.
And then I, I think that could backfire.
So it's finding those like you would just hit the jackpot, like
finding someone who truly understood the value of the
dynamic, you know? But you know, it brings up also
another another issue if if I would have been the same age
when I married my other husband. And let's say I was clear on
being non monogamous backed in. So then the issue of because I
definitely wanted to have a family.
And so I'm wondering if I would have been so quick to choose non
monogamy when I knew I wanted to have a child and I and how that
that gets confusing. You know, we're well beyond
childbearing. So that's not an issue that came
up for us, but that would have been an issue for me too.
I would have grappled with that. There's a few people that have
been able to do like Polly situations and raise kids with
multiple partners and all that stuff.
And, and I believe that that can be done.
I just, I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to do
that when I was in my childbearing years.
You don't know, you might have. It's hard to say, like, well,
because we've been adventurous and exploring all sorts of
things from the get go during childbearing years and whatnot.
You know, I could see it working fine.
Yeah. Well, you're sort of my hero,
and so that's why, that's why I always have to pick your way.
You know, I had, I unfortunately, I wasn't, you
know, dating many black men in my child bearing years and, you
know, no birth control failure. So all right, I don't have any.
You know, my babies weren't beautiful skin.
They're, you know, blonde blue eyes.
There you go. Oh, it's interesting because
Bichard's former wife, they used to, you know, she loved to do
the black gang bangs and all of that stuff.
And they had tried for a long time to get pregnant and
couldn't. And so all of a sudden out of
the clear blue sky, she turns up pregnant.
They had no idea until that baby was born what color it would be,
right? You know, And that's so that was
a whole process that he had to go through.
Like, and he was cool with it. He would have been, he would
have been fine with it. But you know, there's just a lot
of lot of nuance in these lifestyles and, and how you
navigate through there. Now, the other question, which I
find really interesting, and I just get this so often, I think
it's most often white men very frequently are offended by the
fact that I say I'm black only like, like, what's wrong with
me? And that's not the point.
So would you choose a black man as a partner if you started over
rather than a white one? It is a preference that I have,
I think. I've never lived in an area that
was highly diverse. And I think my first answer to
that question is had I lived in Atlanta, GA or Houston, TX, you
know, or somewhere in Florida and I had equal access to both
black, I would have, I would have dated equally and I would
have married whoever was the best fit with me.
That's, you know, that would not have been an issue.
I didn't go out searching specifically for a white man
when I married Bichard. You know, he's just the guy that
fit. So the question is kind of
convoluted in my way of thinking.
You know, I have a perfectly good white husband and all of my
lovers are black and I'm not ashamed of it.
So there you go. Well, would you cuckold your
black lover? Yeah, see that's.
And there are there are black couple.
Yes, there are. There's plenty.
And so are you gonna hopefully develop that relationship with
that partner so that you can be non monogamous and that is he
gonna be devoted to you or is he gonna cause some black men are
very have a sense of ownership over there.
Proprietary, yes. Yes.
And are you? You're a strong woman.
Are you gonna allow that? And it's interesting, I would
definitely date a black man. I would want to be non
monogamous. And if he were wanted to be non,
if he were non monogamous, hopefully at some point he would
come to the conclusion that I'm the only one he wants and he's
going to totally love it and support my my sexual appetite.
I remember being at Splash. I don't know if it was this year
or the year before, and I think that it was a mixed couple and
she was the one having fun and he wasn't, you know, like he was
just there for her. And I, I think it's just finding
that right partner and if it, and I think it would be great,
that would be have your cake and eat it too, you know?
Yeah, that that would be that would be ideal.
I think. What are the things that caused
me to be sexual, feel sexual and want to experience that?
You know, there's there's a few key elements to it for me.
One of them is desire. I want to desire someone and I
want to be desired. But another one is contrast is
everything from me, like black, I'm super white, like light
hair, light eyes, and I love dark black men or any shade of
caramel, you know, So it's, it's, it's that contrast.
It's super masculine, which many of the black men that I've been
with in my life have been they they, they haven't.
My experience has been they carry their masculinity
differently than white men do. They tend to be very confident
and I love that contrast, that sort of hyper masculinity, not
in an obnoxious way, but just, you know, just really masculine.
I think that gives me permission to really step into my
femininity because I'm a strong woman.
I can, I can be pretty masculine myself, you know?
And so I like the contrast. If somebody that's real, that's
much bigger than me, that's darker than me, that's, you
know, more masculine than me. Well, also, so they're flirting
with you and they're bringing it on.
They're bringing it out of you, Yeah.
That that extraction process is absolutely addictive to me.
So that's the stuff that I look for.
You know, I and I, you know, I don't experience, I don't care
how many hundreds of white men that I've dated in my life.
It's a different experience and I don't experience that those
same things in the same way. I just don't.
No, I don't and it's interesting like cause so James, when I met
him, he was had that power and bravado, but now over time, you
know, he's still, you know, a confident man and you know, most
cocks are very strong men. But you know, I think there's
something to be said to just having faith in letting this
things kind of play out a little bit.
I think sometimes if you just start, it's got to be this way,
you may miss something. You may miss the best sex of
your life because this guy originally says, you know, I'm
not going to do that. And it's just like, well, I,
it's about my sexual pleasure, right?
And let me there's I, I that's first and foremost.
And and. If I truly have this genuine,
authentic relationship with this person and he wants to be my
primary partner, then it's going to work out the way it's meant
to work out and he's going to be my cuckold.
And if he doesn't like the word cuckold, it will probably be
cuckolding anyway. It just some kids.
People just get so hung up on labels, you know?
Yeah, that's one of the biggest hindrances in this particular
lifestyle is there's so much negativity toward that term.
And I wish we could just dispense with it.
But it it, it describes a very specific thing.
And I don't haven't figured out how to duplicate that in a
simple way. But there are so, so much
negativity about the term. And it's a shame because there's
nothing shameful about it. There's nothing anybody should
be embarrassed about or, you know, afraid of or anything like
that. But it's there's just a lot of
negative connotation to the word cuck or cuckolding.
Well, also, and if you think if you talk to a cut queen who you
know, it's just the, you know, the opposite, it might be the
same thing. You know, where I want to be
devoted to you and it turns me on for you to go fuck other
women and you know, but include me in ways that turn me on.
There was a profile I read on some site and the IT described
that the woman is sometimes a cud queen and I was on a swing
site and I'm like, well, that's great to see that.
Yeah. Where she she doesn't, she gets
more turned on watching her partner have sex than herself
with other people. As human beings, we're nothing
if not hyper complicated. All of all of us.
We have 1000 different shades and and shadows and and it's all
good. It's all good.
And part of the fun in my mind from being non monogamous in
general is it's just a continually a continual
unfolding of personal evolution. The things that we have to talk
about, the things that we discovered that we didn't know
before this it it's just a real evolutionary path.
It has certainly has been for us.
We've learned so much about ourselves and each other and,
and that just continues to go on.
You know, in spite of the fact that I don't have lovers very
often, we live on past glories a lot because we go back and
dissect everything and, and what do we like about that and how
did that make us feel and. It's just been, it's been really
great for deepening our personal relationship.
Well, I agree, and I think some of the past experiences we have
have just reflecting on them again, just really help us grow
as a couple. You know, some of the moments
that we talked about before, some of the angst and all those
things that come up, you know, the best sex I've had.
Those are the videos that James likes to, you know, open up and
tweak, you know, and see what other kind of urgency can come
up with. And, you know, and they always
say don't dwell on the past, but you don't have to dwell on the
past, but you can use the past to help you, you know?
Yeah, it's in the future. Yeah, it's those, I mean, we, we
got to where we are because of the, you know, we're a
culmination of the our past experiences.
And I don't see that it hurts anything to go back and revisit
that. And you know, this nuanced
discussion of why Black man, I mean, I've really taken a deep
dive into that for myself, Like where did I start?
What, what sort of family did I come from that led me down that
road? And it's been, it's been a
fascinating journey of self discovery.
So, and I hope that never ends. The same, Yeah, I didn't grow up
with a lot of black people. I went to a tiny, tiny, you
know, blue collar, tiny Catholic school.
And there was one black boy in our class.
And then I really wanted to go to the public high schools and
we had to go to the other. You know, we didn't have a
choice. And I think my world would be a
little bit different because I would have been exposed to more
kids of color 'cause it was very, very white.
Yeah, same. I don't remember seeing a black
person in my hometown, like anywhere, not to mention not in
my in my high school. But the other mitigating factor
there, too, is my family was deeply racist.
I mean, profoundly racist. And when I fell in love with
this black man in college and wanted to share that with my
mother, you know, I had to. I had to hear her tell me that
she'd rather see me dead than with that person.
I mean, that's my mother. The good news is, is that as we
are exposed to other cultures and other people, you know, why,
why didn't I grow up and duplicate her mindset?
Because I went to college, you know, she didn't ever, you know,
get out of her little bitty town in Arkansas.
So there's something to be said for exposure to other people and
other other races. But that's tough, you know,
because on some level I felt like I had to choose between a
really close relationship with my mother and how I wanted to
live my life. Yeah.
Well, at least she didn't instill fear, you know, So she
had her opinion, but she didn't. You didn't weren't afraid of
being with black men she didn't make you like.
Well, I, I always knew that she, you know, she did not like black
people. It was obvious in our household.
But, you know, back then and the people didn't talk about it
openly. But I never really thought I
would hear her say I'd rather see you dead.
I mean, that was kind of a sock to the head.
I didn't realize that she felt that strongly about it.
And it it did. It altered our relationship.
It did I I'm always amused when
people get all uptight about why I like black men.
I think I've earned the right to like black men.
If I do, you can. You can like whoever the fuck
you want, yes. Talk.
Yeah, it's just like, come on. Like leave me alone.
I like could you? Imagine like how how boring life
would be if we just. Yeah, or if we were all alike
and all thought alike and all did the same things.
I mean, it's that's what makes the world fascinating to me is
that we're we're such a diver. The human, the humans on Earth
are a very diverse bunch. And I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a good thing. Any parting comments and that
you want to sort of wrap up the topic for yourself?
No, but I, you know, I was thinking of some of these other
topics that it rolls into as I do feel like the cuckolding
dynamic is very healing and there's some, I don't want to
get religious, but spiritual connectivity.
Of it all? Absolutely.
I think if you I would yes, choose cuckolding.
What I call it cuckolding. I don't know, but I'm going to
be non monogamous and I want my partner to be devoted to me and
if he's black, fantastic. And all of my lovers will be
black if he and it's finding that right person.
But it's so it's so healing to have the able to have these open
conversations about everything that you're thinking.
And I mean, last night, for instance, I, we were watching
the Part 3 of this documentary and I just got, so I was not
because of the documentary, just some other conversations and
things that had popped up in the week.
I was just so like aroused, turned on.
And I had to like the soon as that thing came off, I had to
like, you know, masturbate and just get my wand out and just go
for it. But it was so.
But, you know, so James was just like right there.
Like there was no. Don't have to hide.
You know you don't have to. Hide and you have these
experiences and you're happy with it and you can talk about
it. It's it's very healing on a
daily basis. It's not just in the event of
whatever. Yeah, no, that I couldn't agree
more. It's healing in a lot of ways.
Anyway, we hope you enjoyed it. Please leave us your comments,
your questions, anything that you, any observations that
you've made for yourself, you know those.
We always appreciate that. And and again, I deeply
appreciate your time and it's ever so much fun to talk to you
on everything. Yeah, it was good, just it was
good chatting with you and can't wait till next.
Time, Yeah, Till next time.