1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,720
Contrast is everything from me, 
Like I'm super white, light 

2
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:10,840
hair, light eyes, and I love 
dark black men or any shade of 

3
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,200
caramel, you know? 
So it's, it's, it's that 

4
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,640
contrast. 
It's they carry their 

5
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,480
masculinity differently than 
white men do. 

6
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,680
They tend to be very confident 
and I love that contrast, that 

7
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,680
sort of hyper masculinity, not 
in an obnoxious way, but just, 

8
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,000
you know, just really masculine.
I think that gives me permission

9
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,360
to really step into my 
femininity because I'm a strong 

10
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,760
woman. 
I can, I can be pretty masculine

11
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,680
myself, you know? 
And so I like the contrast. 

12
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,000
If somebody that's real, that's 
much bigger than me, that's 

13
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,000
darker than me, that's, you 
know, more masculine than me. 

14
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,760
Hey everybody, I just wanted to 
give you a quick notice. 

15
00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:07,480
I am starting to offer a 
one-on-one coaching session. 

16
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,280
It's called ask Crystal. 
It is coaching for individuals 

17
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,320
and couples as they explore 
ethical non monogamy, whatever 

18
00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,880
your dynamic is, I've been 
living in this dynamic for 10 

19
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,080
years and I've learned a ton. 
And I hope to share some of that

20
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,120
wisdom with you in the hopes 
that it will help you. 

21
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,960
So you'll get the details in the
show notes and I hope to see you

22
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:33,240
there. 
Good afternoon and welcome Anne.

23
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,320
We are here again and with with 
my friend Anne. 

24
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:40,880
And one of the reasons that we 
decided to do this together is 

25
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,080
because she's been in the 
lifestyle way longer than I 

26
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,360
have. 
But we both have a lot of 

27
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,800
experience and there's a lot of 
questions and a lot of evolution

28
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,640
and a lot of change in thinking.
And, and so we're here to sort 

29
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,040
of tackle the questions that 
have come up for us. 

30
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,200
So I want to encourage anybody 
that has a question about 

31
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,520
anything in the podcast or if 
even if it's not to please leave

32
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,760
us a note. 
That's what we're here for. 

33
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,960
We're here to answer questions 
the best that we can. 

34
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,120
Welcome and hello, Anne. 
Hi Crystal, think it's so great 

35
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,080
to be here again. 
Looking forward to what we talk 

36
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,560
about. 
It's always entertaining and 

37
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,240
thought provoking for me and 
hopefully the listeners too. 

38
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,080
Yes, I hope so 'cause I know for
me too. 

39
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,840
After we're done with an episode
and we think that we've covered 

40
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,880
it pretty well, my brain will 
continue to go and I'll have 

41
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,520
five more things that I wish I 
would have said at the. 

42
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,840
End of it so safe. 
Today the question is an 

43
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,760
interesting one. 
I've gotten this one so, so many

44
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,320
times. 
For anybody that's read my stuff

45
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,080
or listened to my pods before, I
am black, only I don't have 

46
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,720
lovers that are not black and so
I don't have very many. 

47
00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:01,080
Is is The upshot of that? 
What if you want to keep score 

48
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,800
it one more one thing we have in
common. 

49
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,680
Yes, yes, we, we both live in 
areas that are not terribly 

50
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,080
diverse. 
And so, you know, we, we take it

51
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,440
as it comes. 
But anyway, today's topic is if 

52
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,560
you could start over as single, 
would you choose a cuckolding 

53
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,600
dynamic or not? 
And would you simply choose a 

54
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,920
black man as your partner versus
the white guy that you're 

55
00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,240
married to? 
So those are two completely 

56
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,720
separate topics. 
We'll do the best we can to to 

57
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,800
answer them both from our own 
perspectives and, and then we'll

58
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,360
go we'll go from there. 
And do you want to kick it off? 

59
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,600
Let me just start with the first
part of that. 

60
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,480
If you could start over and you 
didn't know everything that you 

61
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,280
know now would do you would you 
choose a cuckolding 

62
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,480
relationship, do you think or, 
or you know, maybe revisit how 

63
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,160
you evolve to this dynamic and 
then that would put a context. 

64
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,800
Well, hopefully. 
I might know more than I knew, 

65
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,080
but I, I truly think as far as 
the cuckolding dynamic is 

66
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,600
something you have to grow into 
and build trust with your 

67
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,400
partner. 
And maybe I would have that in 

68
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,440
the back of my mind, but I 
wouldn't use that as the 

69
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,520
defining moment of selecting my 
primary partner because for me, 

70
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:27,520
you need to get to know someone 
right away. 

71
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:36,520
And I think if I put in a like 
whatever field or fat life, you 

72
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,680
know, I need a cuckold. 
Is it going to predetermine or 

73
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,960
prescript something and then the
true relationship won't form? 

74
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:50,360
But I think because I'm, I would
prefer it, you know, because of 

75
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,600
just how I am, I think it's 
would be too hard to just say 

76
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,760
this is what I'm doing. 
I think this is something that 

77
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,720
develops within a relationship. 
I think you can have it in the 

78
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,720
back of your mind and if you see
it's not going anywhere or 

79
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,560
you're with somebody who just is
not willing to share and embrace

80
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,440
and try things, then you know I 
would end the relationship. 

81
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,800
But I do love the cuckolding 
dynamic so I don't know if 

82
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,800
that'd help if that answered the
question. 

83
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,600
This question is interesting 
because you and I have two 

84
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,920
different backgrounds. 
You know, Anne and her spouse 

85
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,640
have been married almost 40 
years. 

86
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,160
So they've had, you know, they 
started somewhere and then they 

87
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,480
evolved over time and ended up 
in this dynamic, which I think 

88
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,280
it sounds like it works for both
of them, which is lovely. 

89
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,000
You know, I'm different. 
I was married before. 

90
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,120
I just over the course of that 
marriage, I determined that 

91
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,560
monogamy wasn't for me. 
I felt like I had all the 

92
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,840
responsibilities and obligations
of marriage and none of the 

93
00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,120
benefits. 
And so when we divorced, I was 

94
00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,120
single for a long time, never 
thought to have another serious 

95
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,760
relationship. 
But then I started to change, as

96
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,120
you do when you go along. 
And I thought, well, OK, if I'm 

97
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,000
going to date again or if I want
to put myself out there again, 

98
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,200
what kind of relationship do I 
want and who? 

99
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,440
Who would this person be? 
And I came up with cuckolding 

100
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:24,160
right away because, as my dear 
favorite psychologist would say,

101
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,760
all humans have core conflicting
needs in relationship, the need 

102
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,680
for safety and security, which I
did, and the need for adventure 

103
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,400
and change, which I did. 
And so my solution for that was 

104
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,520
to find a man who identified 
himself as a cuckold. 

105
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,400
So literally, I came right out 
of the gate. 

106
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,720
I put a just maybe A2 sentence 
ad in Craigslist years ago of 

107
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,160
all places and and my dear 
Bitcher answered that ad. 

108
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,160
We went out for a drink and here
we are today, 10 years later. 

109
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,480
So. 
So my answer is I did start out 

110
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,720
with a cuckold relationship. 
If I would have known what 

111
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,400
traditional monogamous marriage 
was going to end up like because

112
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,600
my former husband was a 
perfectly lovely human being. 

113
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:18,320
He just was a terrible spouse. 
And you know, I might have had a

114
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,000
different idea then, but I was 
all in on monogamy and the white

115
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,880
picket fence and, you know, the 
whole deal until that whole 

116
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,520
thing just blew up for me. 
So, so that's so we started in 

117
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,040
very different places and ended 
up in the same destination at 

118
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,240
the at the end of the day here. 
Yeah, well, I think if I'm 

119
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,840
starting over, I definitely 
would want a non monogamous 

120
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,000
relationship. 
I think what I was saying is I 

121
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,560
don't know if I'm going to 
define cuckolding, but I'm going

122
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,960
to describe what I want that I 
want to be non monogamous 

123
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,320
because that's just how I'm 
going to be the happiest. 

124
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,720
Whether you know, yes, that 
would be a cuckolding dynamic 

125
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,080
and maybe originally maybe I 
would allow or allow support my 

126
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,840
spouse also being non 
monogamous, but I would want to 

127
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,720
lead that non monogamy. 
So we've talked to to nookie, 

128
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,720
you know, she pimps out her cock
and I think I see doing that, 

129
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,480
but I I do I would be non 
monogamous for sure because I 

130
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,280
need I need variety to be happy 
that we've talked about this. 

131
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,640
Not that I want connection, but 
I want I need variety and I like

132
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,080
a little bit of sluttiness too, 
a little, you know, impromptu 

133
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,120
things that are one off that are
sexy and fun. 

134
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:42,080
That's OK too, but I would I 
would be non monogamous for 

135
00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,840
sure. 
For sure I agree with you that I

136
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,240
I could never commit to monogamy
ever again. 

137
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,480
It doesn't make any sense to me.
I certainly plan to stay married

138
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,120
to my husband but we will never 
be monogamous. 

139
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,200
We never wanted to be and we 
never we we. 

140
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,040
We were non monogamous from day 
one and I that's something I 

141
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:07,200
would definitely do again. 
So Bichard as he date other 

142
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,480
women, no. 
And not the slightest interest 

143
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,240
to do so. 
Right. 

144
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,040
And so I, I think it's finding 
that that partner that's head 

145
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,440
over heels for you and wants you
to be happy. 

146
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,840
And if it's going to be cuckold,
that's the term cuckolding. 

147
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,320
But I'm sometimes I wonder if I 
say I have to have a cuckold 

148
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:34,040
dynamic that all of a sudden all
the porn scenes will pop up and 

149
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,160
that's going to be the driver. 
And that to me, that's 

150
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,520
something, however you choose to
practice cuckolding and what 

151
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,680
kinks you have is something that
develops over time. 

152
00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:46,840
But if someone comes in, it's 
like, Oh yeah, I want that 

153
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,480
because I can do this and that. 
And, you know, fluff hurt. 

154
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,360
And then I, I think that could 
backfire. 

155
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,400
So it's finding those like you 
would just hit the jackpot, like

156
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,520
finding someone who truly 
understood the value of the 

157
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,280
dynamic, you know? 
But you know, it brings up also 

158
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,440
another another issue if if I 
would have been the same age 

159
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,720
when I married my other husband.
And let's say I was clear on 

160
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,000
being non monogamous backed in. 
So then the issue of because I 

161
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,560
definitely wanted to have a 
family. 

162
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,960
And so I'm wondering if I would 
have been so quick to choose non

163
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,240
monogamy when I knew I wanted to
have a child and I and how that 

164
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,840
that gets confusing. 
You know, we're well beyond 

165
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,680
childbearing. 
So that's not an issue that came

166
00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:38,840
up for us, but that would have 
been an issue for me too. 

167
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,840
I would have grappled with that.
There's a few people that have 

168
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,960
been able to do like Polly 
situations and raise kids with 

169
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,800
multiple partners and all that 
stuff. 

170
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,840
And, and I believe that that can
be done. 

171
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,440
I just, I'm not sure I would 
have had the confidence to do 

172
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,160
that when I was in my 
childbearing years. 

173
00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,200
You don't know, you might have. 
It's hard to say, like, well, 

174
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,520
because we've been adventurous 
and exploring all sorts of 

175
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,440
things from the get go during 
childbearing years and whatnot. 

176
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,960
You know, I could see it working
fine. 

177
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,600
Yeah. 
Well, you're sort of my hero, 

178
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,640
and so that's why, that's why I 
always have to pick your way. 

179
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,080
You know, I had, I 
unfortunately, I wasn't, you 

180
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,840
know, dating many black men in 
my child bearing years and, you 

181
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,640
know, no birth control failure. 
So all right, I don't have any. 

182
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,440
You know, my babies weren't 
beautiful skin. 

183
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,600
They're, you know, blonde blue 
eyes. 

184
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,320
There you go. 
Oh, it's interesting because 

185
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,560
Bichard's former wife, they used
to, you know, she loved to do 

186
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,600
the black gang bangs and all of 
that stuff. 

187
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,640
And they had tried for a long 
time to get pregnant and 

188
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,360
couldn't. 
And so all of a sudden out of 

189
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,280
the clear blue sky, she turns up
pregnant. 

190
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,160
They had no idea until that baby
was born what color it would be,

191
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,320
right? 
You know, And that's so that was

192
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,000
a whole process that he had to 
go through. 

193
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,040
Like, and he was cool with it. 
He would have been, he would 

194
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,840
have been fine with it. 
But you know, there's just a lot

195
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,920
of lot of nuance in these 
lifestyles and, and how you 

196
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,840
navigate through there. 
Now, the other question, which I

197
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:23,080
find really interesting, and I 
just get this so often, I think 

198
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,920
it's most often white men very 
frequently are offended by the 

199
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,920
fact that I say I'm black only 
like, like, what's wrong with 

200
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,280
me? 
And that's not the point. 

201
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,920
So would you choose a black man 
as a partner if you started over

202
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,600
rather than a white one? 
It is a preference that I have, 

203
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,920
I think. 
I've never lived in an area that

204
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,200
was highly diverse. 
And I think my first answer to 

205
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:54,760
that question is had I lived in 
Atlanta, GA or Houston, TX, you 

206
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,920
know, or somewhere in Florida 
and I had equal access to both 

207
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,720
black, I would have, I would 
have dated equally and I would 

208
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,720
have married whoever was the 
best fit with me. 

209
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,960
That's, you know, that would not
have been an issue. 

210
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,880
I didn't go out searching 
specifically for a white man 

211
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,440
when I married Bichard. 
You know, he's just the guy that

212
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,120
fit. 
So the question is kind of 

213
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,200
convoluted in my way of 
thinking. 

214
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,240
You know, I have a perfectly 
good white husband and all of my

215
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,560
lovers are black and I'm not 
ashamed of it. 

216
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,760
So there you go. 
Well, would you cuckold your 

217
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,280
black lover? 
Yeah, see that's. 

218
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,960
And there are there are black 
couple. 

219
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,160
Yes, there are. 
There's plenty. 

220
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:40,360
And so are you gonna hopefully 
develop that relationship with 

221
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:46,360
that partner so that you can be 
non monogamous and that is he 

222
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,440
gonna be devoted to you or is he
gonna cause some black men are 

223
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,280
very have a sense of ownership 
over there. 

224
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:56,600
Proprietary, yes. 
Yes. 

225
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,720
And are you? 
You're a strong woman. 

226
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,160
Are you gonna allow that? 
And it's interesting, I would 

227
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,880
definitely date a black man. 
I would want to be non 

228
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,560
monogamous. 
And if he were wanted to be non,

229
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,760
if he were non monogamous, 
hopefully at some point he would

230
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,160
come to the conclusion that I'm 
the only one he wants and he's 

231
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:23,360
going to totally love it and 
support my my sexual appetite. 

232
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,840
I remember being at Splash. 
I don't know if it was this year

233
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,040
or the year before, and I think 
that it was a mixed couple and 

234
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,840
she was the one having fun and 
he wasn't, you know, like he was

235
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,880
just there for her. 
And I, I think it's just finding

236
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,880
that right partner and if it, 
and I think it would be great, 

237
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,600
that would be have your cake and
eat it too, you know? 

238
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,280
Yeah, that that would be that 
would be ideal. 

239
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,960
I think. 
What are the things that caused 

240
00:14:53,960 --> 00:15:01,320
me to be sexual, feel sexual and
want to experience that? 

241
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,280
You know, there's there's a few 
key elements to it for me. 

242
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,320
One of them is desire. 
I want to desire someone and I 

243
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,880
want to be desired. 
But another one is contrast is 

244
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:18,480
everything from me, like black, 
I'm super white, like light 

245
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,600
hair, light eyes, and I love 
dark black men or any shade of 

246
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,640
caramel, you know, So it's, 
it's, it's that contrast. 

247
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,840
It's super masculine, which many
of the black men that I've been 

248
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,280
with in my life have been they 
they, they haven't. 

249
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:41,560
My experience has been they 
carry their masculinity 

250
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:46,320
differently than white men do. 
They tend to be very confident 

251
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,960
and I love that contrast, that 
sort of hyper masculinity, not 

252
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,080
in an obnoxious way, but just, 
you know, just really masculine.

253
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,480
I think that gives me permission
to really step into my 

254
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,320
femininity because I'm a strong 
woman. 

255
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,000
I can, I can be pretty masculine
myself, you know? 

256
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,960
And so I like the contrast. 
If somebody that's real, that's 

257
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,880
much bigger than me, that's 
darker than me, that's, you 

258
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,520
know, more masculine than me. 
Well, also, so they're flirting 

259
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,040
with you and they're bringing it
on. 

260
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,560
They're bringing it out of you, 
Yeah. 

261
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,640
That that extraction process is 
absolutely addictive to me. 

262
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,760
So that's the stuff that I look 
for. 

263
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,800
You know, I and I, you know, I 
don't experience, I don't care 

264
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,640
how many hundreds of white men 
that I've dated in my life. 

265
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,720
It's a different experience and 
I don't experience that those 

266
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,200
same things in the same way. 
I just don't. 

267
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,800
No, I don't and it's interesting
like cause so James, when I met 

268
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:55,440
him, he was had that power and 
bravado, but now over time, you 

269
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,320
know, he's still, you know, a 
confident man and you know, most

270
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:04,760
cocks are very strong men. 
But you know, I think there's 

271
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,040
something to be said to just 
having faith in letting this 

272
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,599
things kind of play out a little
bit. 

273
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,359
I think sometimes if you just 
start, it's got to be this way, 

274
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,680
you may miss something. 
You may miss the best sex of 

275
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,800
your life because this guy 
originally says, you know, I'm 

276
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,000
not going to do that. 
And it's just like, well, I, 

277
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,880
it's about my sexual pleasure, 
right? 

278
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,360
And let me there's I, I that's 
first and foremost. 

279
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,920
And and. 
If I truly have this genuine, 

280
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,280
authentic relationship with this
person and he wants to be my 

281
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,640
primary partner, then it's going
to work out the way it's meant 

282
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,440
to work out and he's going to be
my cuckold. 

283
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,640
And if he doesn't like the word 
cuckold, it will probably be 

284
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,000
cuckolding anyway. 
It just some kids. 

285
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,280
People just get so hung up on 
labels, you know? 

286
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,560
Yeah, that's one of the biggest 
hindrances in this particular 

287
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,520
lifestyle is there's so much 
negativity toward that term. 

288
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,240
And I wish we could just 
dispense with it. 

289
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,840
But it it, it describes a very 
specific thing. 

290
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:12,440
And I don't haven't figured out 
how to duplicate that in a 

291
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,560
simple way. 
But there are so, so much 

292
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:20,840
negativity about the term. 
And it's a shame because there's

293
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,280
nothing shameful about it. 
There's nothing anybody should 

294
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,720
be embarrassed about or, you 
know, afraid of or anything like

295
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,480
that. 
But it's there's just a lot of 

296
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,560
negative connotation to the word
cuck or cuckolding. 

297
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,120
Well, also, and if you think if 
you talk to a cut queen who you 

298
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,880
know, it's just the, you know, 
the opposite, it might be the 

299
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,040
same thing. 
You know, where I want to be 

300
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,760
devoted to you and it turns me 
on for you to go fuck other 

301
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:52,720
women and you know, but include 
me in ways that turn me on. 

302
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,320
There was a profile I read on 
some site and the IT described 

303
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,200
that the woman is sometimes a 
cud queen and I was on a swing 

304
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,200
site and I'm like, well, that's 
great to see that. 

305
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,600
Yeah. 
Where she she doesn't, she gets 

306
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,880
more turned on watching her 
partner have sex than herself 

307
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,880
with other people. 
As human beings, we're nothing 

308
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,400
if not hyper complicated. 
All of all of us. 

309
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,240
We have 1000 different shades 
and and shadows and and it's all

310
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,360
good. 
It's all good. 

311
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,800
And part of the fun in my mind 
from being non monogamous in 

312
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,720
general is it's just a 
continually a continual 

313
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,080
unfolding of personal evolution.
The things that we have to talk 

314
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,920
about, the things that we 
discovered that we didn't know 

315
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,520
before this it it's just a real 
evolutionary path. 

316
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,240
It has certainly has been for 
us. 

317
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,880
We've learned so much about 
ourselves and each other and, 

318
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,640
and that just continues to go 
on. 

319
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,400
You know, in spite of the fact 
that I don't have lovers very 

320
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,800
often, we live on past glories a
lot because we go back and 

321
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,840
dissect everything and, and what
do we like about that and how 

322
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,080
did that make us feel and. 
It's just been, it's been really

323
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,640
great for deepening our personal
relationship. 

324
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,400
Well, I agree, and I think some 
of the past experiences we have 

325
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,880
have just reflecting on them 
again, just really help us grow 

326
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600
as a couple. 
You know, some of the moments 

327
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,120
that we talked about before, 
some of the angst and all those 

328
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,640
things that come up, you know, 
the best sex I've had. 

329
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,240
Those are the videos that James 
likes to, you know, open up and 

330
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,760
tweak, you know, and see what 
other kind of urgency can come 

331
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,600
up with. 
And, you know, and they always 

332
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,560
say don't dwell on the past, but
you don't have to dwell on the 

333
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,200
past, but you can use the past 
to help you, you know? 

334
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,080
Yeah, it's in the future. 
Yeah, it's those, I mean, we, we

335
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,000
got to where we are because of 
the, you know, we're a 

336
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,520
culmination of the our past 
experiences. 

337
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,640
And I don't see that it hurts 
anything to go back and revisit 

338
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,640
that. 
And you know, this nuanced 

339
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,920
discussion of why Black man, I 
mean, I've really taken a deep 

340
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,440
dive into that for myself, Like 
where did I start? 

341
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,880
What, what sort of family did I 
come from that led me down that 

342
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,240
road? 
And it's been, it's been a 

343
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,080
fascinating journey of self 
discovery. 

344
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:22,360
So, and I hope that never ends. 
The same, Yeah, I didn't grow up

345
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:26,920
with a lot of black people. 
I went to a tiny, tiny, you 

346
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,440
know, blue collar, tiny Catholic
school. 

347
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,920
And there was one black boy in 
our class. 

348
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,800
And then I really wanted to go 
to the public high schools and 

349
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,240
we had to go to the other. 
You know, we didn't have a 

350
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,720
choice. 
And I think my world would be a 

351
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,480
little bit different because I 
would have been exposed to more 

352
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,680
kids of color 'cause it was 
very, very white. 

353
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,560
Yeah, same. 
I don't remember seeing a black 

354
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,520
person in my hometown, like 
anywhere, not to mention not in 

355
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,160
my in my high school. 
But the other mitigating factor 

356
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,000
there, too, is my family was 
deeply racist. 

357
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,440
I mean, profoundly racist. 
And when I fell in love with 

358
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,760
this black man in college and 
wanted to share that with my 

359
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,680
mother, you know, I had to. 
I had to hear her tell me that 

360
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,040
she'd rather see me dead than 
with that person. 

361
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,320
I mean, that's my mother. 
The good news is, is that as we 

362
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,360
are exposed to other cultures 
and other people, you know, why,

363
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,480
why didn't I grow up and 
duplicate her mindset? 

364
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,400
Because I went to college, you 
know, she didn't ever, you know,

365
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,520
get out of her little bitty town
in Arkansas. 

366
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,760
So there's something to be said 
for exposure to other people and

367
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,760
other other races. 
But that's tough, you know, 

368
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:54,240
because on some level I felt 
like I had to choose between a 

369
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,120
really close relationship with 
my mother and how I wanted to 

370
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:58,080
live my life. 
Yeah. 

371
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,920
Well, at least she didn't 
instill fear, you know, So she 

372
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,280
had her opinion, but she didn't.
You didn't weren't afraid of 

373
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,600
being with black men she didn't 
make you like. 

374
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,360
Well, I, I always knew that she,
you know, she did not like black

375
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,280
people. 
It was obvious in our household.

376
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,040
But, you know, back then and the
people didn't talk about it 

377
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,680
openly. 
But I never really thought I 

378
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,000
would hear her say I'd rather 
see you dead. 

379
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,880
I mean, that was kind of a sock 
to the head. 

380
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,160
I didn't realize that she felt 
that strongly about it. 

381
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,880
And it it did. 
It altered our relationship. 

382
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,960
It altered our relationship. 
It did I I'm always amused when 

383
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,600
people get all uptight about why
I like black men. 

384
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,720
I think I've earned the right to
like black men. 

385
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,840
If I do, you can. 
You can like whoever the fuck 

386
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,240
you want, yes. 
Talk. 

387
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,960
Yeah, it's just like, come on. 
Like leave me alone. 

388
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,600
I like could you? 
Imagine like how how boring life

389
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,320
would be if we just. 
Yeah, or if we were all alike 

390
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,640
and all thought alike and all 
did the same things. 

391
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,640
I mean, it's that's what makes 
the world fascinating to me is 

392
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,600
that we're we're such a diver. 
The human, the humans on Earth 

393
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,600
are a very diverse bunch. 
And I think that's a good thing.

394
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,400
I think that's a good thing. 
Any parting comments and that 

395
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,040
you want to sort of wrap up the 
topic for yourself? 

396
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,360
No, but I, you know, I was 
thinking of some of these other 

397
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:23,920
topics that it rolls into as I 
do feel like the cuckolding 

398
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,520
dynamic is very healing and 
there's some, I don't want to 

399
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,200
get religious, but spiritual 
connectivity. 

400
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,480
Of it all? 
Absolutely. 

401
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,440
I think if you I would yes, 
choose cuckolding. 

402
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040
What I call it cuckolding. 
I don't know, but I'm going to 

403
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,320
be non monogamous and I want my 
partner to be devoted to me and 

404
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,280
if he's black, fantastic. 
And all of my lovers will be 

405
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,960
black if he and it's finding 
that right person. 

406
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:56,640
But it's so it's so healing to 
have the able to have these open

407
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,600
conversations about everything 
that you're thinking. 

408
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,920
And I mean, last night, for 
instance, I, we were watching 

409
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,960
the Part 3 of this documentary 
and I just got, so I was not 

410
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,480
because of the documentary, just
some other conversations and 

411
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,760
things that had popped up in the
week. 

412
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560
I was just so like aroused, 
turned on. 

413
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,920
And I had to like the soon as 
that thing came off, I had to 

414
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,840
like, you know, masturbate and 
just get my wand out and just go

415
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:26,560
for it. 
But it was so. 

416
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,080
But, you know, so James was just
like right there. 

417
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,920
Like there was no. 
Don't have to hide. 

418
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,800
You know you don't have to. 
Hide and you have these 

419
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,720
experiences and you're happy 
with it and you can talk about 

420
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,120
it. 
It's it's very healing on a 

421
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,200
daily basis. 
It's not just in the event of 

422
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,280
whatever. 
Yeah, no, that I couldn't agree 

423
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,920
more. 
It's healing in a lot of ways. 

424
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,720
Anyway, we hope you enjoyed it. 
Please leave us your comments, 

425
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,520
your questions, anything that 
you, any observations that 

426
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,920
you've made for yourself, you 
know those. 

427
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,600
We always appreciate that. 
And and again, I deeply 

428
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,560
appreciate your time and it's 
ever so much fun to talk to you 

429
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,600
on everything. 
Yeah, it was good, just it was 

430
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,520
good chatting with you and can't
wait till next. 

431
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,960
Time, Yeah, Till next time.