Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice.
I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session.
It's called Ask Crystal. It is coaching for individuals
and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy.
Whatever your dynamic is. I've been living in this dynamic
for 10 years and I've learned a ton and I hope to share some of
that wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you.
So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you
there. Afternoon crystal well chair
with my lovely Co podcaster cuckolders Anne.
And today we have the privilege of speaking with we're going to
chop it up with a handsome black man that goes by the name 7 and
he has his own podcast called hot wife confessions.
You'll you'll be able to hear from him later and how to
contact him at the tail end here.
So you want to you want to hang on.
He is really cute. I'm saying that right now.
So all right, see, we got two votes on 7 is super cute.
So, so he contacted me because I am a writer primarily, and I've
only turned one of my blog posts into a podcast and it was called
The Allure of the Black Man. And it was a description about
how and why I am black. Only my, you know, my husband is
a lovely white man, but my lovers are all black by design
and by preference. And so 7, I guess was intrigued.
He reached out to me and said that he had some thoughts on
that topic. So that's what we're going to be
talking about today. I'm excited for this because
Anne and I have talked quite a bit about both of us having a
preference for black men and it's mystifying to a lot of
people. I mean, I get a lot of blowback
from followers that say, hey, if you're so crazy about black men,
why didn't you marry one? I mean, they're like the pissed
off white man thing and I then I have to monitor myself to not
pissed off back at them like God, but it's it's really
common. I get a lot of that.
You know, if you if you're so crazy about black men, why don't
you just marry one? OK, so anyway, that being what
it is, I'm anxious to talk to seven today because it's great
to have a black man join us and share his perspective.
I assume that he intermingles with white women.
And so I think we've got a good conversation to have today.
So anyway, welcome 7. I'm glad you're here.
Go ahead and say hello to everyone.
Thank you so much for having me Cheryl, and hello to your
listeners. Happy to be here.
And Anne, of course we you got to say hey to everybody.
Hey everyone, happy to be here and looking forward to getting
to know 7 and his thoughts on our favorite subject, our
fascination. I know our our fetish, our
preference, our. I've been going through.
This. I've been going through this
thesaurus and so many words. Sometimes words just mess it up.
Let's just everybody has their own description, yeah?
Yeah, that's, that's right. I was just saying to them that,
you know, I wrote the the Allure of the Black Man, that blog post
a couple several years ago. And I've gotten, I've gotten
some good feedback on it, but I've also gotten a lot of
blowback from white men who say, you know, that we're angry about
it, saying if you're so crazy about black men, why didn't you
marry 1? And so I have said several times
and in a number of the things that I've written and podcasted
about, my first love was a black man.
And I was fully immersed in black culture my entire college
tenure. And I was changed forever.
One of the reasons is it was just a delightful group of
people, but I also came from a solidly racist set of parents,
really racist, like southern Arkansas racist.
And so when I went to college and was exposed to people of
other cultures and other races, it was eye opening for me.
And then I went full immersion. And so, so my experience is a
little bit different than everybody's, but that's how I
arrived at that. And then I have sadly lived in
many areas that are not terribly diverse.
So it's it's been tougher. So 7, would you share with us
what is it that you saw in that article that caught your
attention and made you want to share your perspective on it?
Well, initially it was the fact that you have a preference for
black men but you married a white guy.
It made me wonder just to myself, how is it that so many
married white women are attracted to black men?
When you go to these events, it's mostly white couples and
single black men. So I was like, there's something
there. There is definitely something
there that caught. That's what caught my attention
to it. That you were married already.
You know, you chose to. I remember you saying you you
dated black in college, but then you turned around when you
decided you wanted a serious relationship.
You put an ad in and for a cook and it wasn't a black guy.
So and then the other part of it that got my attention was the
difference between whether it's a fetish or preference.
And that's the thing that stood out to me the most.
It started making me like, think back to my relationships, you
know, hey, am I just a fetish to them, You know, but I don't
think I'm a fetish. I think it's preference.
I really do. I think it's preference.
Why did I marry a white man when I'm so attracted to black men?
As I mentioned, I have lived in areas I lived in.
I I went to College in Colorado and only in college was it very
diverse. The minute I got out of college,
you know it's 8090% white Ville where I've lived.
So that's one issue. I have not lived in areas that
were diverse except in college. A second thing is the criteria
by which I would select A husband is different and remain
is different than the criteria for a lover.
The bar is not nearly as high for a lover.
It, you know, you have to hit some basic characteristics,
personality, the way I feel when I'm with you, easy to
communicate, have have some brains and some ability to
connect. But the qualifications for a
husband are way different. Yeah, you're right.
And it's not the same. It's not the same.
And so I, you know, I was married before and got divorced
and, and then I've was single for a very long time and never
thought I would marry again. I didn't want to marry again.
And so I put this ad in advertising for a cut because I
thought, well, you know, I'd like to have a companion and a
lover. And, you know, and frankly, I
don't care what race he is. I'd like to have a companion and
a lover, but I think he should be a cuckold male because based
on my prior marriage, I'm never going to be monogamous again.
And he's got to know that right up front.
And I would feel more confident and more secure if he's a cuck.
So he's going to be loyal to me and I'm not ever going to be
loyal. And I thought that was a fair
deal. So that's, that's how that all
came about. And what is your?
Why are you black only? I married James, you know, we've
been married 37 years. And so I really wasn't the
community that I grew up in the high school there were there was
like 1 black boy in my class and I just wasn't exposed to a lot
of, you know, black kids. And so it never occurred to me
to develop this strong desire because I wasn't exposed to
black males in my kind of dating years.
And so, you know, I met James at work and we just hit it off.
But we started swinging early on.
And it was meeting my first black gentleman as a lover in
that space that made me realize that these men are better,
stronger lovers than the white men in the swinging space.
So and these men came in and there were in a lot of them
because I'm in an area where it is not as diverse, similar to
crystal. But once I once James swinging
got predictably boring, I started seeking single men.
I just sought out black men because that was the energy that
I was benefiting the most from their bravado, their skill.
A lot of the things Grace that you describe in your writing is
exactly the draw that I have. Is it?
I don't. Is it a fetish?
You know, it's definitely a preference.
It's what I want. It's what I'm attracted to.
If something happened to James and I were to get back out on
the dating scene, I would seek a black man.
I would not seek a white man, but I would want to be in an
open relationship similar to what you have. 7 You have a
white, a white partner, and it works well for you.
You have an open relationship and you can do and each enjoy
your sexual dynamic. You know your sexual
preferences, but you know in the reverse 7 how it's what is the
draw for black men to white women?
What's that draw? Yeah.
That's a good question. It there's a difference, there's
a difference for me because it's not just white women, it's
married white women. Right.
That's that's my difference 'cause I only play with hot
wives. So for there's two things that
have turned me off to just regular dating.
It is the vanilla mindset that people bring into the lifestyle
and it's the selfishness. I don't think that I'm like
intentionally directed towards white women.
I am because I'm directed towards hot wives.
I'm directed towards married women and there aren't a lot of
black married women out there that are playing in the field
that I'm at. So it's not so much the
difference between black and white, it's the difference for
me as being married and single. And again, there aren't a lot of
black hot wives out there that are playing, so my my play field
is married white women. So that I find that really
interesting. What is the draw to married
white women specifically? Because it can't become, you
know, too deep of an involvement.
Is that the reason? I've I've got, I've got long
lasting relationships. I've had a relationship with hot
wives that have lasted five years.
I've had some that have lasted four months, some a year or two.
So I'm, I look at it for longevity.
I'm, I like the fact that I can play with you as a married woman
and then we can both go home without there being any problems
about who I'm seeing and about who you're seeing.
That's the biggest draw for me, and it just happens to be
they're all white. Yeah.
Right, very practical. Yeah.
And I think that's that's probably true for a lot of
people in the lifestyle that it's you know, that's our hope
that we find. You know, I found for me, I
found even difficulty because aid we aren't in a diverse area,
but I also want to connect. So the swinger party hump and
jump thing doesn't work for me, right?
And so I've got to find that particular black man that's not
afraid to connect and not afraid to invest some of his time and
actually and actually have a friendship that's like, that's
like almost the impossible dream really.
And it makes me sad, but it's the way it is.
It I would say because that's what I look for, that's my
dynamic. I'm not a transactional person.
Even though we will go to a house party with couples that
are regular swinging, swapping, full or soft, whatever.
I don't do that. I will go and have more
conversations because I don't want to sit here and have a 2
hour conversation with you and then find out that you know one
of you don't want to play. Oh, right.
So it's easier to go find a Yeah, it's easier to go find a
hot wife and let's have a conversation.
Let me meet your husband and then we can play.
But we've made more of a connection instead of that, like
you said, just hump and dump things.
I find that with with married women also.
You want a conversation. Married women want to date
sapiosexual. You're mostly sapiosexual.
Yep, a lot of single women are not.
And why do what? Why?
Why do you think that is? I'm interested in why you think
that is, because Anne and I don't date single women either,
so we don't know. Yeah, no.
Well, and this is I, I've, I've stopped dating single women
because because of that, you want a conversation.
I'm cool with sitting down having a 2 hour conversation
with you without the sex part because I'm stimulating you
mentally. Yeah, and.
You're OK with that? Where a single woman, they're
like, no, no, no, give me the D give me the D what you got, you
know, And to me as a guy, that's the difference.
Yeah, see, I wait until you stimulate my mind and then I say
give me the D It has to go in that order.
Well, they again have wives, married women.
Oh, I get it. Yeah.
That's helpful. Thank you.
That's interesting. I've I've not had the chance to
ask a black man how that works for them and and what what works
about it. And that's so that's really
helpful. Thank you.
So when you're in the splash environment, are you hoping to
meet up with women that you have connected with in years prior?
Like what is the draw for Splash?
Because you know there's chances you're going to connect with
people and you won't see them again, right?
Let's say, let's take Houston, I connected with probably 7
couples and I am in touch with six of them now and they're
looking forward to seeing me either in Orlando or in Atlanta.
I, I, the difference for me is I look for the connection.
I, I go in looking for a call back.
Good example. I, there's a had to.
I had the greatest experiences flash because I met AI met a
couple. The wife actually hit on me and
I made sure the husband was cool like because they invited me up
to the room when I got there. We had the greatest time,
Absolutely the greatest time. It ended up with the husband
sitting at the edge of the bed, like rubbing her feet and it was
really cool. We finished and he's, he
whispered door prize and I'm thinking door prize.
And she says yeah. And he gets up and he goes over
to the cabinet and he comes out and he hands me a door prize and
he says I've only, she's played with 10 guys and you're only the
third one to get one. And I thought for me it was cool
that she enjoyed the experience enough that I got a door prize.
So that's what I go in for. I don't go in looking for a door
prize every time, but that was really cool that I got the door
prize. That's the thing about Splash
that I, I only try to get together with people that I have
connected with or connected ahead of time.
And most of us, we, we still stay in touch, which is great,
but you know, distance and all of that.
So that's frustrating. But what I do find is I talked
to someone he said, you know, and I had played with him twice
when I met him that particular weekend, he didn't wasn't there
like this last two. And he said he rarely has two
encounters with someone. You know, it has to be the right
chemistry where they want that drawback.
One person that I was hoping to get together with twice, 2 of
different people, they've since been in contact with me to get
together in the future. If you know, our paths cross.
So that's good, you know, but I didn't, you know, I don't have
number, you know, 10 is a lot like I think I saw six men.
I was on elevator Guy. Yeah, this guy, he said he
played with 15. I'm like 2.
It's only Friday. What do you mean?
You know, I go into it though looking for a call back.
I won't. I'm and I'm I'm just different
because I won't play with you if I don't think I want to play
with you again. That is exactly how I show up in
Seven. Where have you been all my life,
right? And that's what I want to know.
I've been on the road. Like right where have you been?
Like where were? I know you look familiar.
I think you look familiar. You.
Yeah, I I'm sure I haven't met
you, but you have described yourself in exactly, exactly the
thing that I have found impossible to find.
My experience more often is characterized by you're lucky
to, you know, most of them just don't want to have connection.
Not really. Yeah, they, a lot of them, they
want to, they want to do the numbers.
That's what's exciting to them. And so I'm not the right person.
I'm not the right person for that.
And it's just you won't. Find a lot, you really won't.
You will, you will find and we're guys.
Most of us are going just to say, oh, I got to hit her and I
got to hit her and it's the same mentality and you got to
understand it as single women. Yeah, no, I get it, you know.
And. It's not like we haven't been
looking for 10 solid years. We have.
But I I'd like to get both of your opinions on what you feel
is the difference between having a fetish and having a
preference. For me, a preference is it, it
encompasses the whole person, it's personality, it's their
traits, their interests, their physical appearance, their
cultural background, their ability to talk and communicate
and stimulate my mind. It's, it's a person that I would
be interested in whether no matter what color they were,
that's, that's a preference for me.
A fetish carves out that one thing.
And this is just my definition it, it carves out that one
thing. Oh, he's black, so he's
automatically cool and he's automatically a fit.
I have some black friends who have been fetishized before and
it's painful. You know, they feel like they've
been used. They feel like they're just, you
know, used to fill fantasies for women or couples who, you know,
maybe saw interracial porn or something and they want to
recreate that. It's, it's not really
considering the whole person. It is, it is using people based
on an idea that you have in your mind.
To me, that's the difference between a preference and A and A
and a fetish. There is a difference between
for me, for fetishes and preferences.
My preference is always going to be married women.
I can't say that I make that many exceptions, but when it
comes to a fetish, I'd like to make sure that it's done with my
preferences. Right.
See, that way we both win. I I do have fetishes.
I like water sports, but I can't pull that off with everyone I
like. I'd like the concept of a cup
being there because I have certain ideas that are in my
head, which is a fetish. But I'm fair about my step.
I let him know, hey, how do you feel about doing this?
Cause I've always wanted to do this.
This is a fetish for me, but I'm I do it with the people I'm I
have a preference for. So, yeah, that again, I think
having a specific interest in a thing, you know, can be a
fetish. I think it's when people are
fetishized like, like, like somebody's compelled to be with
you specifically because you're black and they don't care
anything else about what you got or what you have to offer or
what you have to say. I think that's, you know, the
the the black people that I've that I know that have talked
about being fetishized it it's, it's an unpleasant experience
and they don't want to be used like that in the same.
Unless you're able to balance the scale.
I had a couple that I played with and I already knew I'm
playing with them because I'm black.
I already knew that I got that part like, because he used to
say, man, I really just want to see my wife with a black guy.
Yeah. And.
There you go. You know, I just want to see
you. Yeah.
And I got it. I I completely understood.
But the difference for me is OK. I need to win in this too,
though. All right?
I'm gonna let you. I'm gonna let you be pleased
with what you're doing over there.
But I need to also have. Fun.
Right, So are you OK? And, and this is how I have the
I have a conversation with the couples that I play with the
husband prior to playing with her.
And if it's a repeat, I usually talk to him that week and say,
Hey, I know you got some hot shit you want to do, but are you
cool with me doing this too? So that way we both win.
Right, that's right. That's.
Very mature and thoughtful, I like that.
I think that's a key thing though, is to identify what your
interest is and, and it's consensual to everybody
concerned. Then it's, you know, it's good.
It's when people are just using other people selfishly.
I think it's really where that thing breaks down.
But I think if if you are in that situation and it's new, you
have every right like you said that this is what you want.
But I want this. So we it needs to be balanced.
It needs to be even. And I think you don't know what
you don't know. And I think sometimes you get in
a situation and on the fly, you don't you can't think of those
questions. But after it's like, why didn't
I do this? Like why didn't I ask that
question? But you hate for people to be
used. And I, you know, a fetish is a
preference. You know, you're you have a
desire. I'm just looking at the
thesaurus. I mean, it's that you're biased.
I'm biased toward blacksmith. That's what I want.
But I don't fetishize it. You know, it's very deep.
It's a deeper desire as a lover. And James knows that.
And it like like Bitchard, you know, he he would never, I would
never see myself with a white man in his lifetime or ever in
the future. And I think if I did have a
white lover or white bull, I don't, I know I wouldn't.
I think that would just, he would not enjoy that because it
would, you know, it would just be totally opposite of anything
I believe in so. Yeah, that's exactly what
Richard has said. He's just like, EW, he's a white
guy. Why would you like?
I when I was having difficulty finding a black lover, I did
meet someone from the Netherlands.
And because he was, you know, European, I thought, well, OK,
he's interesting, he's different.
But it was. At least he has an accent,
right? He had and he's just.
Something different, something different.
Right. Yeah.
One of the things that's most compelling to me is contrast.
I love the idea of black and white, of tall and short, of,
you know, assertive and submissive.
I love the experience of desire that gives fuel to contrast.
And that is the thing that's the really the most compelling to
me. I want you to be different than
me. I'm like super light.
I like super dark. And you know, I'm, I'm really
short. I like tall men, you know, and
it's it, it, it carries right through, you know, that
contrast. There's something about contrast
that fuels desire for me. And, and my husband gets it.
He gets it to the point where he, he can't imagine that I
could ever be with another white man.
And he's and he's, I'm sure he's right.
So what about lighter skinned black men?
Yeah, well, pretty. Much you know, there's also,
it's not just the color of skin. There are some from my
perspective, there are some just cultural differences.
To me, black men tend to be more confident.
They tend to be self assured. They tend to be very good
flirts. I mean, these, these are some
skills that I'm sorry to say that a lot of white men have
lost along the way. And I, I don't know if this is
due to more women becoming more successful financially and more
independent that way. You know, they, I, I think
that's, that's definitely a trend that's happened.
Women expect more from men these days.
And I think that there's just a lot of white men that that has
been very threatening to. And I just don't find that black
men are fazed by that. They, they know they're cool,
they know they're hot, you know, they're self assured.
And that is just like catnip to me and to most women I know.
I I found that out by by accident.
Everything that you just said, the, the confidence, I, I've
always had it the, and when I met my wife, she's oh, you're
such a smooth talker. I'm like, no, this is just me.
You know, the, the flirtiness is automatic.
You know, if I see it, I'm going to tell you.
And it's, I, I think you're right.
And it the part of it is being married, your everyday life,
just as a man, you start taking your wife for granted and going,
I don't have to tell you how beautiful you are, you know, I
don't have to come and pat you on the, the, the back or the
ass. You know, I don't have to come
kiss you on the back of your neck just out of the blue.
And those are things that you get when you run into me, you
know, it's the experience for me where I want you to remember.
Oh, wow, I was with seven. You know, I had AI, had a couple
that I just saw a high wife couple weeks ago.
Hadn't seen her in five years, five years.
We talked through one of the apps and we we would talk every
now and then we would say hi. Finally we're going to be in the
same city and we get there and I, I talked to her and you know,
we got to play and then I talked to her the next day.
She says, you know, I miss that about you.
You're so caring with me. You're so attentive when you're.
And I'm like, honestly, that's just me.
That's just my personality. And here she is married to her
husband of 30 years, right Where?
Yeah, sometimes they will stop and not tell you how beautiful
you are. You know which?
You're a woman. You want to hear that every day
on the hour? Well, you know, yeah, I think
you're, I think you're right. I mean, it's easy to get
complacent. I think actually for both
people, but I think there have been some wider cultural changes
that as women have risen to more positions of power, many more
women are financially secure, financially independent.
Now once the financial link and this, I come from a financial
background, so this is my perspective, but once the
financial link was kind of broken, where women were no
longer financially dependent on men, my experience was white men
started to lose their shit. They, they no longer had the
control, they no longer had the sway.
They were no longer the decider. And women were starting to make
independent decisions by a about a lot of things.
But I didn't experience that same shock and awe from the
black men that I know. They have been confident all
along and they know their place. You know, hopefully more of them
are attentive and kind like you are.
But I think it's, I don't know, I, I think that's a real
cultural shift that's happened. And what do you think about
that? You know, I, I, I tend to agree,
but I also think you know, maybe 7 how you were raised.
You know your your background, you know your family, like your
cultural background and how you were raised to treat women.
You know, that might have something to do with it.
It seems like the black men that I engage with, they're similar
to the ones you know, they're very caring, they're attentive,
they're kind. They want to please me.
Like they remember even if we can't get together, it's a year
because of what circumstances, they still try to remember what
it is that I enjoy. And but regardless of that, they
are also very caring and kind and respectful.
And are they? Maybe they're that way with all
women. And then maybe that's because
that's how they were raised. It is I, I, I've heard that a
lot too from other guys. It's like how I treat my mother
and my sisters and how I value them and my daughters.
You know, I value, I think for, for a lot of us, especially in
those that are experienced, they value the time that you're
giving us, you know, and that's where a lot of times that you
might see a white guy, he, there's an expectation from him,
right? There's a level expectation that
you get from him as opposed to when I show up, Hey, you don't
owe me anything. Let's just have fun.
I will remember everything I can about you and I want when I
leave, I want you to remember that moment that we were in for
the rest of your life. Right.
And you're probably a man of your word when you say you're
going to do something, you're going to do it like, you know,
there are a lot of men who you know, I'm going to set this up.
I've been thinking about you. It's my turn.
I'll let you know. And then they just, you know,
they don't follow up, but you seem like a man of your word,
that is. No, because there's value there
is. Exactly.
But I think that that thing that
you just described right there and too I think that is not race
specific. You know, there are flakes on
both on all sides of the racial fence there are flakes and
fakes. So that notwithstanding, I was
talking about a larger cultural issue.
I think that so many white men have not celebrated women
rising. I don't remember.
I grew up with four brothers and I don't remember ever them being
coached on how to treat women. You know, I don't remember that
in still that at least how they treated my sister.
We were low on the even we were low on the pecking order.
You know, the boys got preferential treatment and
everything. It's not to say they don't, you
know, love me, but I don't think that respect is there like the
what you described 7. You know, I but that's but I
can't it's not really specific. You know, I can't say that's the
way it is for everybody, but I do feel like there's a stronger
sense of respect for women in other cultures, that's all.
Well, I think of how many, you know, if you really want to
divide it up by racial lines, to how many single mother
households are in the black community, Many, many more than
in the white community. And so there's lots of whole
families that have been raised by strong women, strong mothers.
And I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but
there are cultural differences that are real differences.
And, and I've noticed that in relationship to how how white
men respond to me versus how black men respond to me.
And that that has made a difference in and where I
gravitate to. So before we sign off 7 would
you tell our listeners how to reach you and anything else that
you'd like to add to the discussion?
OK, I would, if you guys want to reach me, I do do a telegram
group. You can reach me on Telegram 7
to you. That's SEVEN, the number 2 and
the letter U and then I am I'm really excited.
We just opened up Pups playground.
It is a villa that we have in New Orleans that will be hosting
like Hotwife events and we're actually doing a Super Bowl
event. So you can e-mail me at
my.hotwife.confessions@gmail.com. I do host Hotwife confessions.
It's a podcast. And then if you you guys look
out in the very, very near future, I'll be releasing a book
called Hot Wifing how to establish and maintain a hot
wife relationship. That is very cool.
Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure, I'm sure many of our
listeners are going to want to find you, seek you out and.
I gave you everything but my phone number.
All right. Well, that's coming.
You, just you, you, you just mark that down.
I think you have it and I might be.
Playing so well. Thanks again and and thank you
for all that you contribute. I appreciate both of you so
much. And we're probably going to
excavate some other topic here and we're going to have you on
again 7. So thank.
I would love to. I really would.
Thanks again. Thanks for showing up.
Bye everybody. Bye.