1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:06,440 Welcome to Beyond Monogamy with your host, Blogger, podcaster, 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,280 and speaker Crystal Welch. This show explores how 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,880 relationships are changing in the 21st century from consensual 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,640 non monogamy to cuckoldry, polyamory, and interracial love. 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,440 This is the place to learn everything you wanted to know 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,200 about consensual non monogamy. Now, without any further ado, 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,120 let's welcome your host, Crystal Welch, and dive head first into 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:34,040 this episode. Good morning, friends and family 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,920 and fans and everybody. Crystal Welch here. 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,080 I have the great pleasure of speaking with my friend Venus 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,240 again today, who's so much fun to talk to. 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,960 I mean, we just get lost in conversation and I hope it's of 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,680 value to someone else because we sure have fun. 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,240 But anyway, you're going to want to follow her. 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,840 She has the only matchmaking service for cuckold sincere 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,480 cuckold people at venusconnections.com, and that's 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,519 an innovative thought and a lot of people that are interested in 18 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,800 that, so I'm regularly sending them your way. 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,760 So thanks for doing that. And then her regular website is 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:19,120 Venus cuckolders.com. Great site, great content, and 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,800 you'll enjoy it a lot. So anyway, be sure to go follow 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,400 her and and find all the wisdom that she can give you. 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,000 So I thought we would take. I contacted her about a week or 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,560 so ago with a new kind of development on my side and I 25 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,000 thought it would be an interesting topic to take up. 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,920 And then I just got another question from one of my 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,320 followers this morning. And the question was, what 28 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:47,160 happens? How do you prevent yourself from 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,280 getting involved with a bull? Or what happens if you fall in 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,200 love with a bull or a bull falls in love with you? 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,760 Nah, what the hell you do then. And so, so that's actually 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,840 happened to me twice. No. 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,800 So. So I'm going to sort of just 34 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,960 walk you through my experience but I want to call on Venus to 35 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,760 to share her experience too with how she manages connection or 36 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,800 lack thereof, that lack thereof. We all want something a little 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,280 different and the challenge I think in this lifestyle a lot is 38 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:26,520 I've had a lot of challenge finding acceptable lovers or 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,000 bulls or whatever you want to call them or classify them. 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,160 A lot of what I see that a lot have come out of, you know, 41 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:40,280 maybe the swinging community and they my impression has been, and 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,560 this is just my experience, I'm not speaking to all anybody, but 43 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,920 my experience has been that they're mostly happy with, you 44 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:52,760 know, being able to just like stop over, you know, give you 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,560 some Dick and then drive away. And you know, there's a place 46 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,520 for that in life. There's, you know, there's a 47 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,560 place for that, but it's not what I typically want. 48 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:10,520 I I want more connection. I want more somebody that I can 49 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,200 actually get to know, somebody that I can be friends with and 50 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,040 somebody that there's chemistry with. 51 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,040 And it's been very, very, very hard to find. 52 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:23,560 I live in an area that is not geographically diverse you know 53 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:30,160 and when you're you're chosen partner is always black. 54 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,040 It's it's harder it's it makes it harder. 55 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,680 So so anyway I want to launch at Venus. 56 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,240 Do you have any thoughts to open this up with it and I'll go 57 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,400 ahead and share my experience and then we can unpack it a 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,840 little bit. But what are your initial 59 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,040 thoughts like have you found yourself trying to avoid 60 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,000 connection or trying to make connection? 61 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,120 What is your particular approach when you are with or you find 62 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:57,440 somebody that you're attracted to? 63 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,200 How do you, how do you foster that? 64 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,560 First of all, thank you so much for having me on the show once 65 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,160 again, I love chatting with you. I feel like we can just like 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,560 dive into these things and just pick it all apart, put it all 67 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,480 back together to try to better understand it. 68 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,560 So I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to be on 69 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,079 the show with you again. So thank you for that and this 70 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:24,320 topic. This topic is like, it's so 71 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,800 complex and it's so deep and it's so provocative and it's 72 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,560 such a big issue. I could call it, I guess, an 73 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,880 issue. In this lifestyle. 74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,200 It can be an issue. And so I'm so happy that we are 75 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:44,800 discussing this part of it, this aspect of it now, back, way back 76 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,800 when, when I first learned about a couple of things, I was like, 77 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,800 wow, that sounds like amazing. You can have this amazing, 78 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,720 loyal, a loving partner, and you can also have these amazing 79 00:04:54,720 --> 00:05:00,440 sexual experiences on the side and it be just everything that 80 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,360 you want it to be. And I was just like, oh, that's 81 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,240 awesome. But then I was like, I was 82 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:12,160 meeting cucks who really wanted to find a woman who wants that 83 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,200 romantic connection with their bull as well. 84 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,480 In fact, some who wanted them all, us all to live together and 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,800 I was fascinated by that because I'm like, isn't that a little 86 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,000 dangerous? Like don't you think that maybe 87 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,640 you could be replaced or something or you no longer need 88 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,760 it in that situation? Isn't that like risky for your 89 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,000 relationship. And. 90 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,320 And one of my coke friends explained to me, he said, 91 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,160 actually it is that level of risk. 92 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,840 It is that level of of fear and angst that at that of danger, 93 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,600 that makes me want it. It's appealing. 94 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,720 And I was like, oh fuck this, The mind of a cuck is something 95 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,560 else. Let me tell. 96 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,440 You right? Nobody thinks like them but 97 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,240 them. And I'm like holy shit. 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,880 Like that's brave, man. That's fucking brave. 99 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,000 Like brave. And and then I came across 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:15,160 stories about and I have over the years of of guys who have 101 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,280 you know indulged in this lifestyle with their wife and 102 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:20,600 then their wife leaves them for the bull. 103 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,880 I hear this not I want to say often but enough times to make 104 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,240 me feel really shitty about that. 105 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,440 Like that sucks and it's devastating and their 106 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,920 relationship ends and or their marriage ends and sometimes they 107 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,000 have families this breaks up their family and like it's it's 108 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,920 really devastating. And so I've heard stories like 109 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,800 that. And I've also heard from cucks 110 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,920 that most of the cucks who say that they really want that 111 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,480 boundary there where there's no feelings involved between their 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,120 girlfriend or wife and the bull because that's fucking scary and 113 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,640 don't wanna go there. And I I don't wanna compromise 114 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,760 our relationship. And so that is like a hard 115 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,600 boundary for a lot of them because it is their biggest fear 116 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,400 of losing their loved one to a ball. 117 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:17,120 And so, like, it's amazing we don't talk about this more often 118 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,080 in the lifestyle. Like, of all the conversations 119 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,880 that we have, they're all very sexy. 120 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920 They're all very fun. It's very like, oh, this is hot. 121 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,640 You know, let's talk about interracial. 122 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,640 Let's talk about big Dicks. Let's talk about, like, sexy 123 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,880 scenarios and fantasies and all that sort of stuff. 124 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:38,400 But like, we really do need to explore this topic of feelings 125 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,960 getting caught. So I have witnessed couples who 126 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,760 their relationship has ended or it has been in deep, deep 127 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,880 trouble because feelings were caught. 128 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,800 And I have witnessed relationships that have been OK 129 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:59,720 and been able to to transition into that kind of Poly triad 130 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,000 kind of dynamic set up. And I've been asked many times 131 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,280 over the years, you know, what are your feelings on this? 132 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,520 What, what kind of setup do you want? 133 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:17,080 And I my answer has a little bit, you know, changed a little 134 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,880 bit over the years. In the beginning I was like, 135 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,880 well, you know, I don't think I could do the feelings caught 136 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,080 thing because that sounds very complicated. 137 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,120 I mean, polyamory is fucking hard. 138 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,040 It's not easy. It's not easy to pull off. 139 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,440 And I know this because I have friends who are polyamorous and 140 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,640 I hear it all the time. It's hard. 141 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,280 It's not easy. And so I'm like, OK, there's 142 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,720 there's that part of it. I just feel like that would be 143 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,480 really complex. But also, I do have this 144 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:53,960 underlying feeling that my, my, my relationship with my husband 145 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,360 might be in danger if that were to happen. 146 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,560 And so it scares me. It really does scare me because 147 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,240 I've been in love before. You've been in love before, 148 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,120 we've all been in love before. It's fucking like you get all 149 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,400 caught up in it. You get to the point where 150 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,120 you're not thinking right, or you are making decisions based 151 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,720 purely on need and want and not on rational thought. 152 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,200 And so it's scary. I know the potential for fucked 153 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,840 up decisions to be made on my part and I'm in love. 154 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,520 I know we've got real capacity. I have made mistakes. 155 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:41,120 So have I ever. And so yeah, I have this real, 156 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,120 real thing about, you know, maybe I would lose my husband 157 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,200 and I don't really know if I want to go there. 158 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,640 Now, having said all of that, I do look for connection with my 159 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,280 bulls. I mean, I can absolutely fuck 160 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,680 somebody and not have to have connection. 161 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,400 I could just have, like, you know, whatever, let's just fuck. 162 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,440 But like I over the years have been able to really realize 163 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,960 there's so much value in that kind of emotional intimacy, 164 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,960 sexual intimacy that you have with your partner and it this 165 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:24,440 idea that it has to then no matter what snowball into love. 166 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,720 I don't buy that shit. And I think that that maybe 167 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,400 originates from those people who think that sex equals love. 168 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:37,360 And so if you have sex, then it should be love. 169 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,040 And I'm like no, no, no, no, no. And so that's why I'm like 170 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,960 people can have sex and it not be a full on relationship. 171 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,160 It might not even be a relationship at all. 172 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,320 It's just a friendship and like, this is so hard for a lot of 173 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,200 people to understand, but I don't think that it necessarily 174 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,480 has to go down that road of falling in love with somebody. 175 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,720 I have not fallen in love with a bull. 176 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,640 I have definitely had platonic love with a bull. 177 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,760 I've had a bull fall in love with me, and that was disastrous 178 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,160 for our relationship because he wanted more, he needed more. 179 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,320 And then he was heartbroken when he couldn't have more. 180 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,960 So that was, oh God, it was the best Dick ever, too. 181 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,080 Had to give up the best Dick ever. 182 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,320 Oh no, I. Know tragedy. 183 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,280 But yeah, no, there was just it was too hard on him. 184 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,440 So. So yeah, I think I just blurted 185 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,080 out like a whole lot right there. 186 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,520 But those are my feelings when I think about this subject, about, 187 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:46,120 you know, where I'm at. Well, thank you for sharing that 188 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,080 and and you're right, it is it, it is so much. 189 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,840 It is. There's so much involved in that 190 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,040 discussion and A and a billion different variations of it. 191 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,240 I mean, for every person that exists on earth, that has their 192 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,640 own whatever, their dynamic is, this whole arena of love and 193 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,240 relationships can be complicated. 194 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,720 And when you're playing in the dynamics that we play in, it's 195 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,400 even more so. So I'll kind of explain how my 196 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,400 thinking has evolved over time and how I I like the point that 197 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,080 you brought up, like and this is the question that I get most 198 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,480 often from others is when they find out that I have an 199 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,080 involvement. Well, what does your husband 200 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,920 think about that? You know, what's what's his 201 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,280 response, what's his. So, so we'll unpack that a 202 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,520 little bit because he and I have spent a great deal of time 203 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,920 unpacking all of this over years over years because every person 204 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,840 that we meet that we have an experience with, it reshapes us 205 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,200 in some way and it's so it's just evolved. 206 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,080 But so I'm like you I, I don't have any stuff about finding 207 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,480 somebody that I'm attracted to and just helping them. 208 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,120 I mean there's I mean what the. Yes, I say yes to that. 209 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:11,040 Absolutely. Let's go however, on a longer 210 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,240 term basis and part of this is based out of my own, I think 211 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,160 based out of my own frustration from the difficulty of finding 212 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,640 acceptable partners in the area that I live in. 213 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:28,840 So how that has that that lack of exposure to people that I'm 214 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,880 attracted to has certainly shaped my point of view and my 215 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,280 methodology and how I've gone about this. 216 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,840 And then when you throw into the mix, you know, almost three 217 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,680 years of COVID isolation, I was always a connector. 218 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,560 I mean, I always, I've always considered myself demisexual. 219 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:51,080 I I need connection, you know? And if if I'm only going to see 220 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,520 you once and we're both open and honest about that and we both 221 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,240 want to do it, well, there's no problem with that. 222 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,040 I'm all about it. But for the most part, it's so 223 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,000 hard for me to find somebody that I like anyway. 224 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,920 If I find somebody that I like, I want to see them more than 225 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,360 once. And I want something of quality. 226 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:13,120 And in terms of the sex and the connection and the communication 227 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,480 and just the enjoyability factor, for me it requires 228 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,120 connection. So I say no, a lot more than I 229 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,960 say yes. I mean, I had a guy that emailed 230 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,880 me two days ago, haven't talked to him for months. 231 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,680 He says, hey, is your teenager at home. 232 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,880 I'd like to come by and, you know, give you some Dick or 233 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,920 something like that. I mean it was just, it was just 234 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,600 about that grass. And I'm going like, what what 235 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,960 planet, what planet are you from? 236 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,840 I mean you could have said, hi, how you doing, Hey, what are you 237 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,560 doing today? You know, it's just this 238 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,440 assumption I think and I think it's especially this is just my 239 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:52,960 perception. I could be completely wrong 240 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,280 about everything that I think. And so I'll disclaimer that 241 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:01,880 right off the bat, but I think it's especially common when 242 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,920 people are approaching a married woman. 243 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,600 They just assume that they don't have to put anything into this 244 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,600 at all because I have a husband and all they want to do is throw 245 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,600 out some Dick and that should be good enough. 246 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,440 And and mostly it isn't for me. I just don't find straight on 247 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,280 Dick without conversation and without something in common. 248 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,120 Maybe couples are treating him that way and that's why he 249 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,960 assumes it's the norm. Yeah, I I don't know. 250 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,040 But it's it happens often enough that I I think it's pretty it's 251 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,120 just pretty common. So. 252 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,200 So I just thought, well, you know I want what I want. 253 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,280 What I want is somebody that's at least willing to put a 254 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,960 modicum of energy into this, to be friends, to get to know me a 255 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,960 little bit, let me get to know him a little bit, and then we 256 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,680 can decide together how we want everything to go. 257 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,280 And so that's sort of been my MO all along. 258 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,760 Well, so I'd given up. I had given up on finding my 259 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,840 husband and I had talked some time ago with another lover who 260 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,720 wanted to be a full time polyamorous throuple with us. 261 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,320 Unfortunately, he didn't inform his wife about that. 262 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,040 So it didn't work out. Right. 263 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Right. But we. 264 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,520 Yeah, I know. See the so it's like that, you 265 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,320 know, you find one that you really, really like and 266 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,440 everybody gets along and everybody's all about it. 267 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,480 And yeah, maybe you ought to tell your wife. 268 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,720 No, I don't think so. OK, See ya. 269 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,560 So anyway, that's how that went. But so I've just been going 270 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,040 along and I just assume that, you know, at once in a blue 271 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,280 moon, I might find somebody that I find interesting, but it 272 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,160 really is blue moon time. So anyway, about must have been 273 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:48,800 March or so this year. Really, very recently I met a 274 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:55,680 man and we just had a wonderful first date, Just very engaged 275 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:01,080 conversation, lots in common, funny, smart, conversant about a 276 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,920 lot of things. And we decided that we would see 277 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,079 each other. And so I was happy about that. 278 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,440 I thought, yeah, this would be, this would be a great guy to get 279 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,000 to know. And so anyway, we started seeing 280 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,280 each other. Well, he's not been terribly 281 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,640 available because he happens to be employed by the NBA, which 282 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,920 just eats his life away. And so he's gone more than he's 283 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,600 here. He he does live in my city, but 284 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,400 he's gone especially during the season and then I'm fighting 285 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,160 even after the season. You know, there's a million 286 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,040 other things he has to do for his thing and so and as we speak 287 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,200 he's in LA recuperating from exhaustion. 288 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,480 And so, yeah, so I got, I got to do regular old wife nagging on 289 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,200 that. And you know, you know, this is 290 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,560 also what they sign up for. Wife nagging like, fuck you 291 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,240 guys, work yourselves to death and then you die 10 years 292 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,520 younger than us and what the fuck we keep telling you to 293 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,760 carve out some more time. But you know, so so I reserve 294 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,240 the right to nag my lover too. So anyway, he's a wonderful 295 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,120 human being. He's the one out of the clear 296 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:15,720 blue sky. Not too too long ago declared 297 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,200 his love for me and I started thinking about it. 298 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,560 So the first conversation I have is with my husband, you know, 299 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,440 and I said, look, I really like this guy. 300 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,720 I would like to see what's available here. 301 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,960 I don't know, you know, just getting to know each other. 302 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,640 But the more that we saw each other, the more that it became 303 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,800 apparent that we we were, we were absolutely involved. 304 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,960 And I wanted to be and he wanted to be. 305 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,520 And my husband is completely OK with it. 306 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,200 He's already thrown up the white flag. 307 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,960 Like I know you're way more than what I can manage on my own. 308 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,560 So please call it. Please call in the help, you 309 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,000 know. And that's that's kind of his 310 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,720 position. But so anyway, so that's how 311 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,000 we've been going. And so it's given us good, I 312 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,160 think, to answer one of the issues that you brought up, like 313 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,560 how how do we engage in this and not threaten my primary 314 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,520 relationship with my husband and what he and I have talked a lot 315 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,680 about is this need for. And what frequently goes stale 316 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,000 in, I think all kinds of relationships, not just 317 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,880 marriages, but this new relationship energy when you're 318 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,760 just discovering someone and there's a lot of passion and 319 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,240 that all that all that feeds into that new relationship 320 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,120 energy. It's a real thing, and it 321 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,160 energizes my husband as much as it energizes me because it's 322 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,720 like like the whole dial gets dialed up about 10 levels and 323 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,040 there, you know, and it's charged and he gets, he gets 324 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,560 some of that too. We're very, very clear on no 325 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,520 matter how involved I might get with someone, we are not. 326 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,720 We've already been through 2 divorces, which were incredibly, 327 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,920 staggeringly expensive for both of us. 328 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,240 Both of us paid out these massive settlements. 329 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,600 So there there's an issue of practicality here. 330 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,240 There's no such thing as more divorce in our world or we might 331 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,120 as well just, you know, jump off the roof. 332 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,760 So. So we don't even accept that as 333 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,920 a possibility. And I know for many people that 334 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,560 that's, you know, they're not in that situation where they feel 335 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,840 like, gosh, if I felt vulnerable enough to love someone. 336 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,840 It it might, it might challenge my loyalty to my partner. 337 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,800 My husband and I are not experiencing it that way. 338 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,360 We we have fully signed off on. We believe. 339 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,000 We always believed, in theory, that as human beings we have 340 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,280 capacity to love more than one person. 341 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,280 That doesn't mean that you have to take something away from 342 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,240 person A in order to love person B, but it is more complicated as 343 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,840 you said, you know it requires, I think it requires that all 344 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,160 three people be highly emotionally intelligent, very 345 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,440 open, honest and authentic about what they're feeling and what 346 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,680 they need and how they fit in. And we have been able to do that 347 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,760 in the in the short amount of time that we've been together 348 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,040 and so so, So we're going down that road. 349 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,640 He probably is very likely going to move in here temporarily. 350 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,520 He's just building a new house and that house obviously 351 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,320 construction is behind as all construction seems to be while 352 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,000 his house is getting finished so he'll so then we it forced us 353 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,960 because we do have a 16 year old that lives here. 354 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:45,280 We had to sit down with the minor child and say we didn't. 355 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:46,800 We're in a custody. We're. 356 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,720 I don't want to drag everybody through our whole drama here, 357 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,080 but we're in a custody battle for this child and we have not 358 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,520 had her full time until now. She's requested, she's requested 359 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,880 that my husband have take full custody of her. 360 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,120 She's become alien, completely alienated from her mother. 361 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,760 So now we have a minor child in the house, which complicates our 362 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,800 adult activities, you should say. 363 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,840 So what we did early on, and my husband took this on of his own 364 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,880 accord. We sat down at dinner and said, 365 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,800 you know, we wanted to talk to you about something. 366 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,000 You know, it was never necessary until now. 367 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,880 But now that you're living here, we felt like we wanted to let 368 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,320 you know that we are Polly. And she knew what Polly was. 369 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,480 And, you know, he said we've always been that way. 370 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,680 It's just was no, was not necessary to talk to you about 371 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,760 it, 'cause you, you weren't here and you wouldn't have an 372 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,920 occasion to meet anyone. But you know you're going to 373 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,440 meet this person. You know, we had plans to go to 374 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,800 brunch with him and we did last, I think it was last week or two 375 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,160 weeks ago and she was totally cool with it. 376 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,120 So. So that's something, you know, 377 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,680 for for my husband to tell his only child that we are embracing 378 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,320 this, that he's comfortable enough to share that with his 379 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,320 child and and we were prepared to respond any any kind of 380 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,320 appropriate way to her if she had concerns about it. 381 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,760 But she's cool. I mean she thinks, you know, she 382 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,040 doesn't see anything wrong. I mean, the younger generation 383 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,040 doesn't have nearly as much stuff about this as we do. 384 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,040 I don't give a fuck, I. Don't. 385 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,200 I don't. It's like, hey, of course you 386 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,920 do. Isn't everybody, you know, It 387 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,640 was kind of like that. It was kind of like that. 388 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,760 And so that part's been really easy and really fun. 389 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:43,480 So, so I get it that for most couples it can be a huge threat 390 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,840 that very, you know, if if you take this the scope of all human 391 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,840 beings and you, you narrow it down to this very, very narrow 392 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,400 stratum of people who are interested in cuckoldry. 393 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,560 And then you further narrow that down by cuckold couples that are 394 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,360 willing to actually branch out into polyamory. 395 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,960 You know, we are a a minuscule subset. 396 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,440 It's a very, very small subset. I most people that I know of, 397 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,520 our friends that are swingers and whatnot, most of them, most 398 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,120 of them make efforts to not get too attached. 399 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,960 Sometimes that means, I mean and these are people that actually 400 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,160 have access to people that they're attracted to, unlike me, 401 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,080 that they have enough to choose from that they can do that. 402 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,880 You know, it just that just wasn't an option for me. 403 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,040 So. So that's kind of how we landed 404 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,160 in this I, you know, who knows what's going to go because you 405 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,600 know, come October, you know he's pretty much gone for the 406 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,240 next eight months after that. And so on his side of the fence, 407 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240 I've gotten some questions about this like why would a bull want 408 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,720 to get all involved in a cuckold or any couple. 409 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,120 Well, the answer for him, his answer was from his own 410 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,600 perspective is that he has this very challenging career that 411 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,400 takes him on the road 8 months out of every twelve he makes. 412 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,960 It makes it he he's felt like it's been impossible to foster a 413 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,800 primary relationship because of that. 414 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,480 He because he's he he just can't be a full time partner at this 415 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,240 time. Now he's planning to retire next 416 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,640 year. So maybe this may be the fact 417 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,480 that he allowed himself to become vulnerable this time and 418 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,960 get involved in this. It might be. 419 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,280 That might be part of the reason. 420 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,800 I don't know. I haven't asked him that. 421 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,920 But it's possible because here's what I think. 422 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,240 I believe, You know, we're all just people. 423 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,080 All of us want to love and be loved. 424 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,480 All of us want to desire and be desired. 425 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,080 We all want that, you know, on what terms we're willing to 426 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,840 accept. What's available to us, I think 427 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,440 is where the real questions reside. 428 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,160 And so for us, I want somebody that I can be connected to. 429 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,960 I'm too. I've been too isolated through 430 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,240 COVID the zipless can I just come by and fuck you Guy is not 431 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,440 interesting to me. In spite. 432 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,080 I do have moments in the day and in the late night that it sounds 433 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,120 really good to me, but he's never around then fuckers are 434 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,840 always some other odd time that I can't, you know, so tiny, 435 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,320 tiny. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta, 436 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,760 you know ask a little bit more often to find a time that works. 437 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,360 So I don't know it, it is complicated. 438 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:31,880 But I felt like it's worth it to explore this a little bit just 439 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,360 because I know that other people have concerns about it, don't 440 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,000 wouldn't know how to navigate it if it if it happened, you know. 441 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,280 And one of the things that I can see can possibly come up. 442 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,720 And again, we haven't had enough time to really write the ground 443 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:54,400 rules for what we're doing. But when he goes out again with, 444 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,240 you know, when the season starts again, does he, is he going to 445 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,200 expect me to be mostly celibate during that time? 446 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,360 Oh yeah. You know, and it's like, I don't 447 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,400 think I could do that. You know. 448 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,480 Just like you and I were conspiring to make a sandwich 449 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,520 with some king at at Mokai. You know that could still 450 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:21,480 happen. I don't know. 451 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,840 But you know, I, you know, so so it's speed bumps like that that 452 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,520 you have to work through. Like what am I going to do? 453 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,720 If he says I absolutely, positively don't want you being 454 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:38,000 with anyone else, even when I'm on the road, what's my response 455 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,760 going to be? So I have a couple of months in 456 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,480 here to think that over. But bottom line is it's going to 457 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,560 require that all three of us sit down and hammer out the ground 458 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,600 rules. Because I'm not going to, you 459 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,280 know, I'm too far into this, you know, I could tell complete 460 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,200 truth to my husband and then I end up cheating on my boyfriend. 461 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,440 You know, it's that doesn't seem like that's in integrity. 462 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,840 So we have to we have to figure that out. 463 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,960 And I don't know what the answer is going to because I'm, I don't 464 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,960 feel like I want to sit here, you know, And there will be 465 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,320 things like mocha or something that will come up from time to 466 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,680 time. I'm not a swinger. 467 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,560 I don't go to swinger parties or anything like that. 468 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,640 But Mocha's fun. It's really fun. 469 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,120 It's really super fun. And so anyway, that's that's 470 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,920 kind of how we got here. It it will be an unfolding 471 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,440 story. But I think it's, you know, it's 472 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,160 relevant for us. We we do, both of us. 473 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:37,280 My husband and I both embrace the notion that human beings do 474 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,320 have the capacity love more than one person and it doesn't 475 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440 necessarily have to destroy the first one to accept the second 476 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,840 one. And so we are, we will be 477 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,920 practicing that over the next however long this thing might 478 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,200 last. And so that's that's what we're 479 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,840 doing. But yeah, it's complicated. 480 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,480 It can be complicated And like everything else that that you 481 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,520 and I have both always talked about, you know, communicate, 482 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,360 deep communication is the key. Where's everybody at? 483 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,880 What do they want? And I think the key thing in 484 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,560 finding a partner is to, whether you're looking for a cuck, A 485 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,600 cuckoldress or a bowl, you have to find the person that wants 486 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,840 what you want. That's like the most important 487 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,760 thing. You have to find somebody that 488 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,720 wants what you want. And so that's a that's a 489 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,440 question I would take a deep dive into When you're first 490 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,800 meeting people, You know, find out to the best of your ability 491 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,080 or to the best of their ability to know themselves, you know, 492 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,200 what actually do they want? You know, in this case, my 493 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,440 boyfriend wants all the goodies of a real relationship and not 494 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,440 in a real position to provide that at least not 12 months out 495 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,960 of the year. But he still wants it. 496 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,920 He still wants it. So should he not have that 497 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,240 because he's got a complication over there? 498 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,480 I don't know. Who am I to say he shouldn't 499 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600 have that? So anyway, so that's how we go. 500 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,960 I think what you said about emotional intelligence being 501 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,880 critical to the success of you know this working out. 502 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:20,120 I think that is totally true. The communication level that has 503 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,160 to be on point. It has to be on point. 504 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,440 But there was something you mentioned that I can I I get, 505 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,960 which is that whole new relationship energy and that's 506 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,200 what you want and that's what you seek and you enjoy and 507 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,800 you're feeding off of it. He's feeding off of it. 508 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,840 You're all three. You feeding off of it and it's 509 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,520 great and you're in that stage, which is like amazing. 510 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:51,480 What happens when that fades? Because I think it can and will 511 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,200 at some point. I mean, this is sort of the 512 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,880 whole point of Doctor Lei's book Insatiable Wives is that we do 513 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,440 get bored. We get bored, we get bored, we 514 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,880 just get bored. And surprisingly, women quicker 515 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,320 and more frequently than men do. And so it's very, very possible 516 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,600 that that would happen, which is, I guess why my answer to 517 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,600 that is you have to circle back and figure out what your 518 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,920 agreements are. You know, if I find my, you 519 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,760 know, if this person over here, absolutely. 520 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,200 His happiness is dependent on me being only with him and my 521 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,040 husband. You know, is that going to play 522 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,840 with me? I don't know. 523 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,720 It's. Complicated. 524 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:42,040 Yeah. Don't. 525 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,320 Ask me the hard questions. Keep me with us. 526 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,840 That's a simple question. Not the hard ones. 527 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,800 Yeah, that's that'd be really hard. 528 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,640 That'd be really hard for me. So. 529 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,040 Because I've seen, I I know you said your bowl is like going to 530 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,240 be moving in temporarily. And I get that. 531 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,720 It's it's helpful a situation for him while he's waiting for 532 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,240 his house to be built. But I have witnessed couples in 533 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,240 the lifestyle where the bull has moved in permanently with them 534 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,840 and their kids and everything like that and and I wonder about 535 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,000 that and like, if that new relationship energy, it is 536 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,320 fucking amazing right now, it is everything. 537 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,840 You are on cloud nine. It is great. 538 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,240 It's all exciting and everything like that and you can't imagine 539 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480 it ever changing. And it does. 540 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,920 I mean we're we're all adults. We know how it works with 541 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640 relationships that goes away. And then all of a sudden you 542 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,920 start to get annoyed by how they, you know, leave the toilet 543 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,080 seat up or you know, like, you know, their real fucking shit 544 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,640 comes in and you're like, oh man, this person's starting to 545 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,440 piss me off. And like, it's fun as it used to 546 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,560 be. And like, there's chores and 547 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,720 there's, you know, all this regular shit and you're like, 548 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,520 the honeymoon is over. Right. 549 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,080 No. And that's that's very real. 550 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,600 That's very real. I I think that's just realistic. 551 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,440 I mean, it's one of the other topics that you and I took on. 552 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,800 Maybe it was the last time, you know, how do you juggle these 553 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,560 two conflicting needs? You know, your need for safety 554 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,080 and security, your need for adventure. 555 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Well, just because you have a husband and a boyfriend, you 556 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,000 still have to confront those that conflict even with the 557 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,200 boyfriend or and any subsequent boyfriend. 558 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,760 How do you find safety in it And how do you find, you know, when 559 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,320 the when the need for adventure asserts itself, what do you 560 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,080 where do you go with that? So yeah so we're nobody's immune 561 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,560 from those two questions. I don't care who you're with or 562 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,520 you know, my my husband would say, well the obvious answer is 563 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,600 you need like 5 boyfriends. You know that's what he would. 564 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,040 And we say yes, yes, if you could just find 5 that I would 565 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,760 like I'll do that and you know he can't and nor can I. 566 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,320 So you know that's a false. That's a false notion, but well, 567 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,360 is. There is, is there? 568 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,200 Would there be an option? I'm just thinking this through, 569 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,800 like, you know, if you are in love with your bull and he's in 570 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,679 love with you and you think this whole situation can work out and 571 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,040 you know, in your mind it seems like, yeah, we could do this and 572 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,280 you've had the conversations and everything like that. 573 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,480 Is it something that you can plan out and be like, OK, we're 574 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:31,199 going to do this for now and it not be like, I'm going to, you 575 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,560 know, you're going to be part of this triad for the rest of our 576 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,880 lives kind of thing. Like, you know how when you 577 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,920 commit to your husband, you're like, I can't imagine my life 578 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,560 without him, right? You're like, I love this man. 579 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,920 I'm going to spend the rest of my life with this man and I get 580 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,880 that. But when it comes to bringing in 581 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,400 this other person who you love with the same amount of love, 582 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,239 probably. Can it be something that doesn't 583 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,400 require that lifetime commitment and instead just be like, this 584 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,240 is gonna what's gonna work for us right now? 585 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,240 And we'll see where that goes. I mean, I think part of the 586 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:13,000 conversation, yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, we need more 587 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,720 physical time together, all three of us, to just air out a 588 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:18,360 lot of this stuff. But I think that's absolutely 589 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,480 that's the most practical approach of anything. 590 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,960 I mean, who knows what next week will bring or next year? 591 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,880 You know, we can't possibly know that. 592 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,440 So the only the best I think we can do now is to sit down 593 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,840 together and say what each one of us what do each one of us 594 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,240 want out of this? How do we see it going and what 595 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,480 what is our, you know, what are we striving toward? 596 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,680 And is there an intersection of that? 597 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,920 We all meet someplace that we could agree on. 598 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,920 But I think it's it's the same thing that happens in all Poly 599 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,760 relationships sooner or later that, you know, the secondary 600 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,160 lovers, you know, as much as you don't want there to be like a 601 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,400 value judgment on it. Well, there is. 602 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,520 I mean, I'm legally married to a person and not legally married 603 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,720 to the other person and. And so how does that skew 604 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,760 priorities and commitments and stuff like that. 605 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,720 So I I just don't think there's any, I don't think there's any 606 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,800 way to pre plan that. I think the only thing that I 607 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,640 can see to do is to just continue to be totally open and 608 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,160 honest about where we, where we are, what we want and and any 609 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,480 agreement, I mean, if we're gonna make any agreement right 610 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,240 now, it's the agreement to be completely honest about where we 611 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:45,000 are and if things change that we're going to have enough 612 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,880 integrity to let everybody know. Yeah, I don't know what we can 613 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,000 do beyond that, really. And then just take it a day at a 614 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,760 time. Well I I had a conversation with 615 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,680 Kennedy because she my friend Kennedy because she brought up 616 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,840 this that term platonic love for both and I was like oh that's 617 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,480 it. Because you can have. 618 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:11,720 I think in my experience anyway, deep connected feelings with a 619 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,400 bull. I mean and then they're they're 620 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:20,960 a really important part of my life and I value them so much 621 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,000 outside of just the sexual realm. 622 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:30,040 And I think the really interesting thing about that is 623 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,440 I don't know if that person's going to fall in love with 624 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,560 someone and get married and I never have that. 625 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,920 You know I don't see them anymore. 626 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,280 There is that unknown of I don't have this person for the rest of 627 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,840 my life, but I love them in my life right now. 628 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,240 And so there's something so interesting about that because 629 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,000 you don't feel that way about your husband, 'cause you're 630 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,200 like, I love him and I'm going to be with him forever. 631 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,600 But then you also have these people in your life who you 632 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,840 don't. It's kind of like you don't know 633 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,040 what the outcome is going to be. You don't know when that day is 634 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,280 going to come, when they are going to, you know, move on and 635 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,120 do something else and whatever you'll be, you'll be happy for 636 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,120 them. Sad, but happy and but you, you 637 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,680 just don't know. And I think for me anyway, the 638 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:24,880 fact that that does feel temporary helps me to appreciate 639 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,520 them right now in the moment even more because you don't. 640 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,600 It's not guaranteed you don't have this person in your life 641 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:33,800 forever. Right. 642 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:35,880 Right. So I think there is that 643 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,200 possibility of being able to have those really amazing feel 644 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,760 feelings with someone and but still realizing that, hey, this 645 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,960 might not work out in the long run kind of thing. 646 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,720 I don't know. Right. 647 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,160 No, I think that's, I think that's very sensible and it's 648 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,440 it's a sensible, practical approach to it. 649 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,480 We have friends. We have a couple of friends 650 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:02,040 actually that got deeply involved with the bull. 651 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:09,560 And then in both cases the bull became frustrated with not 652 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,400 having the wife be exclusive with them. 653 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,880 And so they left the relationship to find somebody to 654 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:23,160 be with them, just one-on-one and and everybody's heartbroken, 655 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,760 everybody's heartbroken. And then in one case, the bull 656 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,480 came back saying he made a terrible mistake and he'd rather 657 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,560 have her partially than anybody else completely so. 658 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,520 So this is the complexity of human beings, you know, that 659 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,160 could happen at any time. And I think when you're talking 660 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,600 about a secondary partner, the the piece you can never anchor 661 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,400 in is the safety piece, 'cause it's not safe in terms of 662 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,160 there's no guarantees here there, you know, there's no 663 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,800 guarantees that this person's gonna be here next week or next 664 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,560 year, you know. So the the safety component is 665 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,680 not the same. You you can still have the 666 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:08,160 adventure component, but without that commitment, I guess. 667 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,840 And I'm not sure that I'm even looking for that. 668 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,280 I mean, it's just it's just unfolding. 669 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,520 I'm trying to just play this day by day without. 670 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,480 Oh, I can imagine that it must be a lot to process. 671 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,040 It is. I mean, me sitting up here in, 672 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,920 you know, no man's Land in terms of finding the kind of man that 673 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,040 I am typically attracted to and then you find one that's just 674 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,600 like all in. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a lot 675 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,520 from my old brain to wrap itself around and it's super fun and I 676 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,120 like it. But yeah, we have all these 677 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,560 things to discern. I I don't know how it's going to 678 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,880 go. You know, what I do know is that 679 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,760 I'm confident that both my husband and I live with 680 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,880 integrity. We're not looking to take 681 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,440 advantage of anyone or misrepresent anything that we're 682 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,400 doing or anything that we are. I mean, actually, my bull's 683 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,040 biggest challenge will not be me and my nagging. 684 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,280 It will be my husband going well, we'll find three more 685 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,800 bulls. That's this answer. 686 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,800 You know. And the and the other guy's 687 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,760 going, no, no, no, I don't want that. 688 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,840 No, no. You know, so he's gonna have to 689 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,360 rein in my husband. So. 690 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,280 I can see this like the actor's in a sitcom. 691 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,000 I can just. See it? 692 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,600 Right, right, right, right, right. 693 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,280 The husband's saying go. The boyfriend's saying no, stop. 694 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,720 So anyway, yeah, so that's kind of how it is. 695 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,800 And it's it's enjoyable, but I thought it was a good 696 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,880 conversation, a good conversation to have with you, 697 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,680 just because I do think it needs to get aired out. 698 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,240 These are deep questions that prevent a lot of people from 699 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,200 stepping forward just to explore things 'cause they think, Oh my 700 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:45,720 God, what happens if that happens? 701 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:47,840 What happens if that happens? And they get so many of those 702 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,520 what ifs that they just don't move forward at all. 703 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,560 So, you know, and another part of our general philosophy is 704 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,600 none of us know how much runway we have left in life. 705 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,440 We just don't know, you know, we would rather roll the dice and 706 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,760 live, live as large as we can, have as much love and foster as 707 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:11,000 much love in our life as we can, and with no guarantees that you 708 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,040 know that it's going to last past tomorrow. 709 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,840 I mean, we don't have any those kind of guarantees, but we would 710 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,840 rather take the risk and play play big while we can, you know, 711 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,880 'cause there'll come a day that we probably can't. 712 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:30,520 You know, my my dear husband has already made me promise that if 713 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,000 I drop dead, then I will him to you. 714 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,400 So what? So one of these, one of these 715 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,440 days, you know, if he shows up on your doorstep with a little 716 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,400 suitcase and a bow on his neck, you'll know that I have passed 717 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,040 away and and and he will be my special gift to you. 718 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,800 Oh my God, I love. You at at his at his request, he 719 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,680 goes, yeah OK you can go ahead and die as long as I can stay 720 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:55,880 with Venus. So anyway. 721 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,600 Oh my God, I know. So, so yeah. 722 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,600 So a little bit of humor and a little bit of authenticity, and 723 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,080 that just kind of gets us through the day. 724 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,320 Well, I think it's absolutely great and brave. 725 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,360 I, I I will say it's brave of you guys to go down this road 726 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,160 together, but it sounds to me like you have such a solid 727 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,680 relationship and that like really really high level of 728 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,440 communication and honesty that is required. 729 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,560 So you have all of the tools already that you need to be able 730 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:40,120 to do this and so good for you. This is a relationship where the 731 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,000 woman asks for what she wants and gets what she wants, and 732 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,320 that's what you're doing. So. 733 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,600 Yeah, yeah, that that was my first impression. 734 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,480 Like, jeez, it's like the dog that caught the car. 735 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,040 You know what? You know, my eyes going, what I 736 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,680 caught the car. What, this thing I thought I 737 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,440 always wanted. Now what the hell do I do with 738 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,760 it? You know, it's like, what? 739 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:02,840 But no, it's it's really true I think. 740 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,080 And the and the moral of that story is patience. 741 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,000 You know, if you, you know, it might take you years and years 742 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,120 to find what you really want. It might. 743 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,160 It might. But what's my alternative? 744 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,880 You know, I get back to that. I only have so much runway left. 745 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,960 What's my alternative? Do I just give up? 746 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,600 Because it's hard. You know, my choice was, well, 747 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,080 I'm going to keep, you know, interviewing people because I 748 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,920 just don't know. I don't know what's in the 749 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,080 cards. And you know, he came tripping 750 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:33,760 down the road and here we are, so. 751 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,480 Well let me just say you had the easiest search for a cock 752 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:43,720 husband and now you've had the hardest search for a bull and I 753 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,800 have had an easy time finding bulls and the worst time finding 754 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,240 a cock. So there you go. 755 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,360 Or even I just can't imagine that you have trouble finding a 756 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,880 cock. And so you know, if we lived any 757 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,760 closer, I I would. I would lend you, I would lend 758 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,600 you mine. And he could he could be a cold 759 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,360 cuck or something like that. And I don't. 760 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,200 Even know that like you just like you, you're not looking for 761 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,400 a bull, you're looking for the bull. 762 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,560 And I'm not looking for, just. A cuck cuck, Yes. 763 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:11,520 B, is that right? Yeah. 764 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,560 The one. The one. 765 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:14,000 Yeah. Yeah, the one. 766 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,680 And I'm confident that you will find, I mean, A, with all the 767 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,880 stuff that you do already and you know, you're fairly high 768 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,480 profile. I'm confident that you will. 769 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,480 But the truth is it's not easy for any of us. 770 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,480 And that that's my last message of hope for our listeners is 771 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,080 none of this is easy necessarily. 772 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,680 It's just you get to define how do you want to invest your life 773 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,040 energy for the time that you have left, knowing that none of 774 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,520 us know how much time we have left. 775 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,840 You get to pick how do you want to invest your life energy in 776 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,720 finding the things that make your heart sing. 777 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,680 I mean, there's no other question really but that one. 778 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,960 And then then go about that business knowing that it it 779 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,240 might take way more time than you wanted and it might be 780 00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:57,600 harder than what you wanted, but what's your alternative? 781 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,440 Exactly. What's my alternative? 782 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,040 Nothing so. Netflix and chill till I die. 783 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,560 Well, I love the. Saying of yours, I don't know 784 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,600 how much runway I have left. I'm like, that's so perfect. 785 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,920 You have the funniest sayings of anyone I talk to. 786 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,080 Is so funny. Well, yeah, I I think that, 787 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,480 yeah, it's true. We don't, we don't know how much 788 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,200 runaway we have. And we might as well be about 789 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,960 the game of life and and playing it our way. 790 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:37,440 And, you know, it's kept us alive and thriving and happy. 791 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,240 And you know, I'm never, ever, ever bored with my husband ever, 792 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,320 ever. You know, his solution to 793 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,880 everything is you need a new boat. 794 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:46,720 And I go, Yeah, you're all right. 795 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:48,720 Where the hell am I gonna find one of those? 796 00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:51,800 He's the child. Venus has got all the bulls. 797 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:57,360 I don't have any bulls. The Venus no sharing is caring. 798 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,200 Absolutely, I'm 100%. Well, you know what? 799 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,480 We should, we should continue this chat on the Moan app, I 800 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,640 think. I think we should It would be 801 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,920 fun if we should. We should. 802 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,680 Let's do that. So OK, so we'll wrap this up for 803 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,560 now. I will put all of Venus's the 804 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,080 contact information. Oh, I did get your magazine 805 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,680 article uploaded on my website, too. 806 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,360 I want to let you know that. Oh, wonderful. 807 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,440 It's it's such good content. I will put all of the stuff in 808 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,920 the show notes. But for those of you who do not 809 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,000 have the Moan app, that is an app that you can upload on 810 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,960 either an iPhone or an Android. Now it's Mon. 811 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,600 Wherever you get your apps, upload that app and and then 812 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,160 look for an episode. We will schedule that and 813 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,160 continue this conversation and then we can have it live with 814 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,640 you people that are interested in the topic. 815 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,720 So that's a. Great idea, I can ask you. 816 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:52,360 Questions. Yeah, absolutely. 817 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,680 Absolutely. Thank you again, Venus. 818 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,920 I always love talking to you. We'll we'll come up with 10 more 819 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,360 weird things to talk about before, before the year, before 820 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,920 the year's done. OK. 821 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,920 Talk to you soon. Thank you for tuning in. 822 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,880 You can access Crystal's latest blog and podcast at C Welch Poly 823 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,160 on Medium and find her on Twitter at Crystal Welch 99. 824 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,000 Your questions and comments are always welcome. 825 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,600 Also, if you're enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, 826 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,600 subscribe, or leave a review wherever you listen to your 827 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,680 podcasts. We appreciate it and we'll catch 828 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,080 you in the next episode.