1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,520 Welcome to Beyond Monogamy with your host, Blogger, podcaster, 2 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:10,360 and speaker Crystal Welch. This show explores how 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,960 relationships are changing in the 21st century from consensual 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,720 non monogamy to cuckoldry, polyamory, and interracial love. 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,520 This is the place to learn everything you wanted to know 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,280 about consensual non monogamy. Now, without any further ado, 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,200 let's welcome your host, Crystal Welch, and dive head first into 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,760 this episode. Hello friends and followers, 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,920 Crystal Welch here. I am super, super excited to 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,160 bring you an interview with Drew Marston today. 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,320 Drew is a lifestyle connoisseur and curator. 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,320 He's an experienced bull and the publisher of Spade magazine, 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,560 which many of you are familiar with and I'm just super, super 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,280 excited to have a chance to talk to him and find out a little bit 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,160 more about him. So y'all are invited. 16 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,040 So here we go. So, so Drew, thank you for 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:13,480 agreeing to to chat today. I wanted to 1st ask you, your 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,840 publication is so professional and so colorful and so well 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,720 done. How did you tell me about how 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,320 you started Spade magazine and how that idea developed and how 21 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,400 you've evolved and all that background? 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,040 Sure, sure. So first, let me say that it is 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,560 an honor to be on your podcast and to be talking with you and 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,000 getting to know you better and to have this opportunity to 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,960 share with your listeners as well about Spades. 26 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,720 So I started it as a blog, originally on the Blogger 27 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:55,840 platform in 2014, and it's kind of as a lark to do some Queen of 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Spades interviews and things just kind of took off from 29 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,600 there. People really liked reading the 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,480 interviews, and so I started slowly adding other content 31 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,160 pieces to it, setting up a schedule for publication. 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:16,000 And then around 2017, the Blogger for some reason decided 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,320 to shut the blog down. And they didn't give me a reason 34 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,920 why. They shut the blog down South. 35 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:28,360 After three years and some fantastic success, I had close 36 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,320 to, I believe, 200,000 followers on Tumblr when that was still a 37 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,800 thing from the blog. We had about 30,000 on Twitter 38 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,480 and it was over 3 million views for the blog itself. 39 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:49,320 So there was a kind of an interest in starting it back up 40 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,880 again and people were clamoring for it and people had my e-mail 41 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,080 address were asking when it was come back, but I could not find 42 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,440 a venue to republish it because that not too long after that 43 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:05,960 Tumblr decided to shut down. So I kind of went into a period 44 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,600 there where my career start to take off. 45 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,240 So I really didn't have time to do it. 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:16,720 And then I'll say around 2019 or so, summer of 2019, an 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,600 opportunity came back to use the platform Gumroad and then to try 48 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,880 to design it myself when I couldn't find some designers who 49 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,320 would work with the content. And so I just kind of set about 50 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,800 learning a program, a website called Canva and teaching myself 51 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,600 how to do that and kind of put out a first publication to some 52 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,400 friends and got some feedback and just kind of designed it 53 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,560 from there. And and that's where we are 54 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,920 today to putting, working on, putting out more regular issues 55 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,600 as it gets popular again so. Well, it's super, super 56 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,320 impressive and I'm happy to hear that I use. 57 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,880 I'm a Canva user too and it's like solved so many problems. 58 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,480 Yes, I love it. It. 59 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,360 I know it's and it's easy. Like even people like me who 60 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,760 know nothing about tech stuff, it's super easy to use. 61 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:14,040 So, so yeah, it seems like a lot of people that write and blog in 62 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,279 this space. I mean we all have to find our, 63 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,400 I mean all these issues from the judgement from platforms like 64 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,880 Tumblr that you know, Yahoo takes it over and decides that 65 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,880 they don't want any more X-rated. 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,440 It's a completely ruined Tumblr. There was such great curated 67 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,720 content on there and it's frustrating. 68 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,840 So we all just kind of have to, I think, be flexible and find 69 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,080 our way around. But I'm really glad that you 70 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,840 found this space because your stuff is really impressive. 71 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,600 And I'm. And I'm. 72 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,440 Very, very, very proud to announce and he's going to 73 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,240 feature one of my articles in there, so. 74 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,600 Yes, it's going to be in the very next issue, the 5th issue, 75 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,200 and it's a fantastic article. I hope you guys all check it 76 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,200 out. It's beautifully written and 77 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,600 it's this actually this whole issue, the fifth issues I kind 78 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,240 of believe one of my best issues. 79 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,400 It kind of marks a turning point because from design standpoint I 80 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,680 believe that we've kind of got, I've kind of gotten it to look 81 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,720 the way that I want but also the content is just it's just firing 82 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,080 this issue some of the best that I've I've collected so far so. 83 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,720 Yeah, it's very good. I'm excited. 84 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,920 So let's talk about one of our common interests. 85 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,200 Obviously, you've had some interest in you have an interest 86 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,920 in the lifestyle, the queen of spades. 87 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,760 I clearly have an interest in black man. 88 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,240 That's the article you're gonna feature. 89 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,080 So let's talk about our mutual love. 90 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:50,480 Sure, sure. In this day and age too, it's so 91 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:56,520 amazing to me that race is even still a deal, but it's like more 92 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,240 of a deal now than it's ever been. 93 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,600 And that's so in some ways that's so disheartening for me. 94 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:08,320 I I still get attacked online pretty regularly because I I 95 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,640 state my clear preference for black men. 96 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:16,200 And so of course I'm judged as a racist regularly, you know. 97 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,800 And I go back and I retell the tale 1000 times with my first 98 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,840 boyfriend my first love was black and it's just been with me 99 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:25,560 my whole life and so if you wanna call that racist, I'm 100 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,640 gonna call it. It's my preference and but it's 101 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,760 it's amazing that in this day and age and 2022, we're still 102 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,600 fighting this race. It's it's worse now than it's 103 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,040 ever been. And I, you know, I don't want to 104 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,800 get into any kind of politics, but clearly the political 105 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,160 environment has hurt that whole discussion a lot and I'm hoping 106 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,520 that we can circle the wagons and bring that around because it 107 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,200 hurts. It hurts all of us. 108 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,120 It hurts all of us. And frankly, I'm just sick of 109 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,600 it. I agree with you 100%. 110 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,040 It seems that, you know, of course we're going through 111 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,920 particularly in this country well the world really a time of 112 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,160 upheaval and change. And I think you kind of have 113 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,000 that happen every 40 to 50 years. 114 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,760 And I think we're kind of right there at the that that cycle. 115 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,760 But that stuff seeps into the lifestyle because we're we're 116 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,720 living you know in this world. This is not what we do 24/7. 117 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,560 But I do think that some of this that we're seeing in the 118 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:33,240 lifestyle, some of this coming after people for their 119 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:38,280 preferences or their, you know, being proud, being able to say 120 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,000 hey, this is what I like this, these are, this is who I like. 121 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,120 I think a lot of that is being amplified by people being able 122 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,720 to just kind of put anything out there. 123 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:54,680 And I think some people want don't necessarily feel relevant. 124 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,000 And so one of the ways that they can feel relevant or feel heard 125 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,800 is to be critical because I noticed that a lot of times, 126 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,840 especially in the social media age, what we do is we tend to 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,440 respond to the people that criticize us more than the 128 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,440 people who compliment us. And I think, you know, all of us 129 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,520 are guilty of that. And I think some people in order 130 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:21,600 to be heard, will criticize you just to be noticed, just to be 131 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,040 on your radar. And So what I say to to people, 132 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,320 I actually had a conversation with someone on Twitter the 133 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,280 other day, primarily through DMS. 134 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,080 And they were talking to me about, you know, Spades magazine 135 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,360 and me glorifying the Queen of Spades and and and all of that 136 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,799 and that particular lifestyle. And I told him I was like, 137 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,280 listen, no one forces you to be in this lifestyle. 138 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,200 Everyone who's in this lifestyle is up in it of their own choice, 139 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,240 and they're expressing their own preferences. 140 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,560 There are plenty of things out there that are not my 141 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:56,960 preference. I don't go to those people's 142 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,840 spaces and then tell them, you know, how I feel about them or 143 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,720 how they should be conducting themselves, especially if 144 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,680 they're not harming anyone, especially if it's all between 145 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:11,360 consensual adults. I have a choice to move on, not 146 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,360 participate and not to go into those spaces. 147 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,200 And so I think what we have to do in this lifestyle is we have 148 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,560 to be, we have to be bold and say these are our spaces, these 149 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:27,560 were created for us by us. We're proud of what we are and 150 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:30,920 we're not going to let you come into these spaces and bring your 151 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,000 negativity and and and bad energy and your criticisms and 152 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,360 and all of that. If you're not participating, you 153 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,840 should not be in these spaces. You know, that's a super mature 154 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,280 and adult response and sometimes mine isn't as much. 155 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:52,560 So I will swear and then block. I do a lot of blocking. 156 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,320 But but I really appreciate your perspective and that's the first 157 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,520 time I've heard it and I think it's. 158 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,400 I think you're right on that. We do as just as human beings. 159 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:07,680 We tend to feel like we have to defend against negativity rather 160 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:12,800 than support positive comments. I mean, I I'd do my best to be 161 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,920 gracious when someone compliments me, but I know I'm 162 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,840 much I'm exactly that. I'm much more reactive to people 163 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,640 who want to criticize. But I think your perspective is 164 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,840 right on. You know, this is our choice. 165 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,040 We're not hurting anyone. We don't force anybody to be 166 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,280 here. You don't have to read my stuff. 167 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,720 You don't have to subscribe. You don't have to look at it. 168 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,960 So move on to the next thing you know. 169 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,080 But but I don't want your hate. I just don't want your hate. 170 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,720 We live in a very reactive culture. 171 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,920 We live in what is called a clap back culture. 172 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,880 So for instance, I work primarily as a consultant in 173 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,640 what would be called the niche of the PR field. 174 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,360 And so one of the things that I advise my clients a lot because 175 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,200 one of the things that happens is someone will say something 176 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,440 and then the response the meeting. 177 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,280 We then have meetings and tons of emails go back and forth 178 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,400 about what do we say about this. And so my response to them is 179 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:22,680 #1, know who you are, OK. And I actually attended this 180 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:26,440 conference where Tyler Perry was speaking and he said this and it 181 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,640 kind of stuck with me. He said that one of the things 182 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,880 that he had a celebrity friend that was in trouble that was or 183 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,000 had somebody had said something about them negatively and it was 184 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,120 going around social media and this person was upset and they 185 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,360 knew they were going to respond. And so he called him up and he 186 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,280 said, I know you're going to respond, do not respond. 187 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,280 He said you have to know who you are. 188 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,080 He said when they talk about you, they have to say it in a 189 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,920 blog post. When you talk about them, you 190 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,840 have to call a press conference. So you have to understand what 191 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,400 you're dealing with. And I think when we, when we 192 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,280 respond to the negativity, when we respond to the criticisms, a 193 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,040 lot of times, especially if it's not constructive, you can tell 194 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,120 when it's constructive criticism and when someone's having a 195 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,880 genuine concern about something that you can address. 196 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,360 But when it's just the silly stuff, the the shaming that we 197 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,840 see this going on, we can we can respond by letting them know 198 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,200 that we're not going to be taken in that direction. 199 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:33,000 Yeah. And I think you, you you really 200 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,480 like let people know, hey, this is not someone who's going to 201 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,520 continue this back and forth with me, so it's not worth my 202 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,440 time to even try and bring them down. 203 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,600 Yeah, I think that's an important distinction that you 204 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,320 said that because we are in a very, we're in a very reactive 205 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,960 time in history right now. But I think it's obvious that 206 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,240 there's a segment of people who don't believe like we believe 207 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,560 and they want to criticize and they somehow are energized by 208 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,560 negative pushback. And for all of us, I mean, I 209 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:16,800 feel like I'm being called to rise to a higher standard, you 210 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,760 know, to do exactly as you've suggested and not engage, not 211 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,600 defend. You know, you're never gonna 212 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,320 change. You know, you're never gonna 213 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,320 change a racist's mind. You're just not going to. 214 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,880 They're gonna have that. You know, Democrats and 215 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,320 Republicans are not gonna change each other's minds. 216 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,520 And so why engage in the the negativity? 217 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,160 So I think that's, and I, and I would just say that to all of 218 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,480 our listeners too, is to for all of us to be vigilant and turn 219 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,040 down the temperature, don't respond, don't respond to that 220 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,400 stuff and certainly don't respond in a negative way. 221 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,160 I'll shut my computer down and then swear, but I don't want to 222 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,160 swear, but I don't want to swear at anybody. 223 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,600 So yeah. You know, yeah. 224 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,880 Just don't give, just don't give them that power. 225 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,440 Yeah. Don't. 226 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,280 Don't give them that power. And don't let them know that 227 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,680 they've had that power over you. Do it in private because it's 228 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,120 not, you know, you're not gonna change anybody's mind and it. 229 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,680 Doesn't it doesn't. Add anything and so you know, 230 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,960 engage with the people who are genuinely curious. 231 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,440 Engage with the people who want to know who are curious about 232 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,360 you, curious about the lifestyle, curious about, you 233 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,240 know, race, play, whatever it is. 234 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,200 Those people. Want to join in and enhance 235 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,200 those experiences with you? Yeah, yeah. 236 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,120 And and I'm, you know, that is the bulk of my followers. 237 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,760 Most of them are not heavy lifestyle people. 238 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,240 They are mostly cucks and cuckoldresses. 239 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,240 They are trying to learn. Most, many, many, many of them 240 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,360 do not, are not in cuck relationships, but they want to 241 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,120 be. And so they're trying to find 242 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,320 their way. You know, I'll engage with those 243 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,440 people all day long because I I wanna help in any way that I 244 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,080 can. But when somebody comes off the 245 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,440 wrong way, they're out. And I just don't. 246 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,880 I just take no prisoners with it. 247 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,480 But I, and I think that that's, I think that's the right 'cause 248 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,120 I want to encourage curiosity, I want to encourage people who 249 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,240 want to learn. And that's why we do these 250 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,640 podcasts, 'cause we can learn from each other and and it 251 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,640 benefits everyone, it benefits everyone. 252 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,400 I agree 100%. So now I want to ask you a few 253 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,000 kind of voyeuristic questions about bulls. 254 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:41,280 Awesome. Because yeah, my my little 255 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:49,640 niche, I I have not interviewed a lot of bulls, just a couple. 256 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,720 But a lot of my followers are interested in the bull 257 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:02,440 perspective, like how do you #1, How do you vet a person or a 258 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,480 couple that you might want to engage with? 259 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,160 How do you, what is your criteria? 260 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,720 How do you go about that process? 261 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,680 So I think it's different for for every bull. 262 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,680 For me personally I go through. So I've I've been in the 263 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,240 lifestyle as a bull for about 15 years, maybe a little bit more. 264 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,840 And I would say over the last eight or so, every two years or 265 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,920 so, I try to re evaluate you know what I'm experiencing, how 266 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,400 I'm growing, what my interests are and then try to clearly 267 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,400 articulate those, try to clearly communicate those to people and 268 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,480 look for people who fit, you know that that particular thing 269 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,280 that I'm looking for. And so the best way to vet, the 270 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,040 best way to vet is just by having conversations. 271 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,160 I just, I have kind of, you know, I've done enough 272 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:04,160 communication over those years that I've kind of developed a a 273 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,000 a checklist or a list of questions that I can ask. 274 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,040 And I can pretty much figure out about 3 to 4 questions. 275 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,280 And you know, where I'm kind of going with this and you can kind 276 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,560 of engage, you know, especially if you're talking with couples, 277 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,440 if you're talking with the husband or if you're talking 278 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,079 with the wife, just, you know, by how they communicate. 279 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,040 So yeah, I would say for me it's just really kind of being in 280 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,760 tune where I am at that moment in my journey and then trying to 281 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:39,040 find people who fit that particular interest. 282 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,200 So that way the the vibe is good, the communication and and 283 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,400 everything is good and you're not trying to force something to 284 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,600 fit. Because I've been in that 285 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,800 situation where like when I first got involved I first 286 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,760 started being in the lifestyle where I wanted to be with this 287 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,200 you know particular person or or something. 288 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,320 But it wasn't a good fit. We we were not compatible. 289 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,800 We just, we weren't looking for the same things and so that is 290 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,520 really the most important thing in vetting. 291 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:20,000 And I agree with you completely. I just wrote recently reposted 292 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,600 an article about. It was a. 293 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,360 It was an article that I wrote some time ago about. 294 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,040 It was written for inexperienced bulls trying to be a bull. 295 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,040 And you know, from my perspective and the things that 296 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,560 they need to keep in mind and the things that they that I have 297 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,920 experienced that have gone wrong. 298 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,880 And I think from my perspective, having a lot of both good and 299 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:50,640 not so good experiences, that's the key thing is can as quickly 300 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:56,720 as you can determine the person that you're talking to are, are 301 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,200 you interested in the same thing? 302 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,240 I mean that common interest is the key thing. 303 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,680 Do you know, in terms of dominant submission, in terms of 304 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,880 getting the husband involved somewhere or not boundaries, all 305 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,680 of that stuff, but wanting the same thing? 306 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,360 Because in my experience, when I meet a bull that isn't very 307 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:28,240 experienced, what what my most often experience of that is, is 308 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:34,080 that very often they will, they will say anything just to get 309 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:39,440 the job done, you know, and I say, look, I'm sapiosexual, I'm 310 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,640 demisexual. So I need some brains and I need 311 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,800 some connection. That's just me. 312 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,760 And you know, without those two things, nothing happens 313 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,680 downstairs at all. And and so I try and be very 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,840 clear about that and they go, yes, I want connection, yes, you 315 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,720 know I'm an intellectual or whatever and they're nothing 316 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,160 even close to that you know, So, so that the inexperienced bull 317 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,200 in my, I've just met so many of them, they will misrepresent 318 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,280 what they want either because they're not self aware enough to 319 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,360 really identify what they really want or they're just they just 320 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,360 want an experience. And they have. 321 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,280 They're afraid. If they say that, then you will 322 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,640 eliminate them. And what they don't understand 323 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,960 is that that's actually better because if they lie, we do 324 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,560 engage. And I can quickly determine that 325 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,680 everything they said was not true. 326 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,360 It creates, it creates really bad feelings. 327 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,680 And then I'm out you know you'll never see me again and and it 328 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,080 makes you know and I found at a certain point trying to get 329 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,640 through COVID 2. I I found myself getting pretty 330 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,360 cynical because of just inauthentic bulls and so so 331 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,960 that's why I'm interested, you know, and I wish all of them 332 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:04,200 were just exactly like you there'd be there'd be a lot 333 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,000 happier women out here if, you know if all the bulls were self 334 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,200 aware as you and is experienced as you. 335 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,640 And you know as much of A gentleman. 336 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,520 I mean it doesn't require rocket science. 337 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,280 It just requires being being curious about somebody else and 338 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,200 excavating them a little bit and saying oh that's a fit for me or 339 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,840 that's not a fit for me and going from there. 340 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,040 But deceiving and misrepresenting is absolutely 341 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,960 the wrong way to go. Well, you know, so I can 342 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,320 remember when I was thinking back to like when I first got 343 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,120 into the lifestyle and was first as a bull. 344 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,760 Fortunately, I have no horror stories like there was, there 345 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:53,840 was really not something that I look back that I'm like super 346 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,800 embarrassed about that, you know, that went wrong. 347 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,800 I behaved myself in a bad and an unbecoming way, primarily 348 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,880 because, you know, I I knew how to deal with people. 349 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,720 So, you know, at that time when I entered the lifestyle was 350 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,120 always I was already running a business and the business was 351 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,240 kind of taking off. And so I was, I was learning how 352 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,640 to communicate with people in a way that would distinguish 353 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,160 myself. So I kind of, you know, relate 354 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,600 that into the lifestyle. But there were a lot of mistakes 355 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,640 that I made that were just based off of inexperience. 356 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:37,840 And the thing that I find the longer that I'm in that the big 357 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,880 difference between what inexperienced bulls don't 358 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:47,440 understand is the 2 ES OK one. They're looking at it because 359 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,360 they think by joining into the, by coming into the lifestyle, 360 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,800 it's going to be easy because they believe that, you know, 361 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,080 this woman is, you know, married, she has all of this and 362 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,560 she's just looking for one thing. 363 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,880 And that's what I'm looking. For Yeah, available. 364 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:05,720 That's all I need. I just need somebody who's 365 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,440 sexually available. Exactly. 366 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,440 And so they believe, you know, that's where I'm at, that's 367 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,960 where she's at, that's you know how this is going to work out. 368 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,360 But from the couple perspective she already has that which the E 369 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,360 that she's looking for is enhancement. 370 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,800 And when you understand that then you understand that you 371 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,680 have to bring a different perspective and something 372 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,200 different to how you present yourself, what you bring to the 373 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,120 experience and and you know also how you look at yourself. 374 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:42,240 It's also kind of you know you have to do some self work to get 375 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,680 to the to get to the stage that I'm at in the lifestyle, I had 376 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,000 to do a lot of self work. I had to do some internal work 377 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,080 to make myself not just a better bull, but a better person 378 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,480 altogether. And then that becomes a 379 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,440 reflection of what you present to other people when you're 380 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,800 learning, when you're educating yourself, not just about the 381 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,480 lifestyle but about other things. 382 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,360 Because then you can also be like a great conversationalist 383 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,600 when you have, because you know you're going to have to talk at 384 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,400 some point, you know, so you know that. 385 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,160 That's one of the things that I the disconnect in You know we 386 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,480 have to get I I think the couples are right and and 387 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,600 looking for the enhancement and we have to show them how to find 388 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,480 bulls who will fill that enhancement component. 389 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,280 But particularly to the new bulls, the inexperienced bulls, 390 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,560 we have to get them from away from the easy mindset into 391 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,720 understanding the enhancement mindset. 392 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,120 And once you do that, you grow exponentially in the lifestyle 393 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,840 and as a bull. And you really get the 394 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,480 experiences that you were you thought you were looking for 395 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,440 when you came in, sometimes way better than you ever imagined 396 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,680 they could be. Well, you just had a mouthful 397 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,320 right there. And that's something super 398 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,280 important that I want to emphasize is that that 399 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,200 expectation that everything should just be quick and easy 400 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,680 Because absolutely, in the cuckold world, it's just not 401 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,240 that it's complicated, it's it's more complicated. 402 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,040 There are more layers of complexity. 403 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,520 You're actually entering a marriage. 404 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,400 You're being invited into someone's marriage. 405 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,360 And. And willfully and but there are 406 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,400 expectations there and and one of the things that I've also 407 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,320 struggled with a little bit is sort of the there is a 408 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,240 difference between the swinger set and the cuckold set. 409 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,560 It's two different lifestyles. It's two different lifestyles 410 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,680 and the cuck portion of that is much, much, much smaller. 411 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:58,000 So the chances of finding bulls that are used to the swinger 412 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,160 style or the swinger rules or the swinger protocol or whatever 413 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,040 you want to call it are much more prominent. 414 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,200 It's much harder to find bulls that have had experience with 415 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:14,280 cuck couples and understand how to how to graciously play a part 416 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,960 in that. I know that a lot of our swinger 417 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,720 friends go out of their way, you know, like and some of them will 418 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,680 have these hardcore boundaries that they won't see anybody more 419 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,480 than twice because they don't want attachment to form. 420 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,640 You know me, I'm looking for attachment. 421 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,880 And so it's a much harder sell, you know, for a bull who wants 422 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,560 to just come over and jump me, you know, to say, look, I'd like 423 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,000 a little companionship. I'd like a little, you know, a 424 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,400 date once in a while or, you know, and that's that's a whole 425 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,520 different world and it's much, much more difficult. 426 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:56,680 But trying to educate swinger bulls into how to be a good 427 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,400 cuckold bull? It's not an easy task. 428 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,400 Well, you know that mentality that a lot of, a lot of 429 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,560 so-called bulls have is it would work if, you know, some swinger 430 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,400 couples weren't. So what's the word I'm looking 431 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,360 for here? So done with single guys, you 432 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,640 know, because primarily because of you know, the way they they 433 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,440 act and so you know, they start looking to the hot wife and the 434 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,400 the cuckold dynamic, but they don't understand that there's 435 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,280 relationship there, there's nuance there. 436 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,320 Right, right. And there's there's relationship 437 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,760 within relationship, you know what I mean? 438 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,680 So like for instance, you know, just as an example, if I met 439 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,840 you, there's a relationship that I have with you that is 440 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320 distinctly different than the one that I would have with your 441 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,520 husband. Yes. 442 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,320 And but it. But he's involved. 443 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,040 So there's these, there's there's all of these dynamics 444 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,120 that are working. And you have to understand that. 445 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,760 You have to understand nuance. And that's why working on 446 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:13,920 yourself is so key, because then you're not trying to project, 447 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,040 you know, you're not saying, yes, I can do this, yes, I can 448 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,880 do that. Yes, I can do this just to get 449 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,760 in, right. And then now you have to 450 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,600 remember the persona that you created for yourself because 451 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,200 you're not realistic. You know about about who you 452 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,160 are. Right. 453 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:36,360 Bring yourself, bring your best self, but also be mindful of 454 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,240 those dynamics and how those work. 455 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,800 And that takes, that takes some work, that takes some time, that 456 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:52,560 takes understanding, nuance. And you know, if if you're just 457 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,560 a squirrel trying to get a quick nut, that's not going to work 458 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,160 for you. Yeah, certainly not with cuckold 459 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,040 couples. It is a lot more complex and 460 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,080 it's so it can be so intensely satisfying, done the right way 461 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,600 with the right people. Where there's high, high respect 462 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,440 between the cuck and the bull, they might have playful, you 463 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,080 know, interaction. Like my husband loves a little 464 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,760 playful humiliation and absolutely loves to hear, you 465 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,960 know, small penis or whatever from the bull. 466 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,520 You know, he he that's part of his makeup. 467 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,200 But it takes, like as you said, it takes some some nuance and 468 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,560 some time and some effort. You know, that's the thing that 469 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,240 I've seen people who aren't willing to put the time or the 470 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,640 effort. They just want the quick hit. 471 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,320 And, you know, it's sad to me because the times that we have 472 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,800 connected correctly with the right people, it's so intensely 473 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,200 satisfying, so intensely satisfying, because all three 474 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,200 people are thrilled with all three people, you know, and it's 475 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,040 and you know, it's just better than than any other thing. 476 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,720 That's why. I guess that's why we're doing 477 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,800 it, but yeah. Those are my best. 478 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,880 Those are my best experiences. I mean, almost, almost all of 479 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,760 them have become good friends. Yes, you know, and sometimes 480 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,160 even closer friends to me than, you know, some of my vanilla 481 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,320 friends and some family. Yeah, because we have this thing 482 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,960 in common that we can be open and honest and transparent with 483 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,160 each other and and candid about, you know, our fantasies and what 484 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,560 we love. And yeah, it's just, but boy, 485 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,560 it's it's just really, it's challenging, it's challenging to 486 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,400 put all that together and I'm past the point where I really 487 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,880 want to take a bull to school about that. 488 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,480 I mean if somebody came to us just genuinely curious and 489 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,760 wanted to learn how to how you know how to do all that with a 490 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,560 couple, I would certainly invest some time in that if they were 491 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,960 genuine. But you said the key thing is 492 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,120 for all of us, all three parties involved in our dynamic must be 493 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,400 highly, highly self aware. It's the key to everything. 494 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,720 You have to know who you are, what you're capable of, what you 495 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,520 where your boundaries are and be able and willing to be open and 496 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,440 honest and transparent about that. 497 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,000 And then you've got, you've got an arena to play in that's 498 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,120 virtually unlimited. It's unlimited. 499 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,840 Yeah. I mean you find so I find a lot 500 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,400 of times that you know when you make that effort and you get to 501 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,240 know someone and you get relationship. 502 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,520 I always say that, you know whatever boundaries that you 503 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,320 were told at the beginning, a lot of times they're going to 504 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,960 want to push those. Why? 505 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,080 And and and that's actually a great thing. 506 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,960 That's this. Once you're once, you're 507 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,200 starting to see that you have a very important ingredient to the 508 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,760 whole relationship that means they trust you. 509 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,600 Right. And when that happens, all kinds 510 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,520 of magic happens. All kinds of magic. 511 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,760 All kinds of magic. And that is the land that I hope 512 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,720 to lead others into. To not be so quick and not be, 513 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,000 you know, to do the work on yourself. 514 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,120 To be curious about other people. 515 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,480 To be willing to invest some time and some effort into 516 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,960 something of real quality. Because in our experience, we 517 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,040 have never. We firmly believe at this point 518 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,200 that there's no possible way that we would have as good a 519 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,280 marriage as we do had we not had deeply involved relationships in 520 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,920 the past. And and still with a bull or 521 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,280 two, you know, there's not like 100 of them. 522 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,080 But those relationships that have gelled up and meshed are 523 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,120 golden. They're golden. 524 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,160 We all have been willing to expand and grow and we grow each 525 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,840 other. We grow ourselves and we grow 526 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,840 each other and where are you gonna find an opportunity like 527 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,520 that? I mean, it's just it's. 528 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,240 Just not many. Not many, not many anywhere in 529 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,200 life that you look, not just in this actual arena, but anywhere 530 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,000 you look that you can be in a pot of people that are willing 531 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,840 to stretch and grow and and grow together like that. 532 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,640 So that's very cool. I'm so happy to talk to you, 533 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,280 save, save. You are a breath of really fresh 534 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,800 air. Thank you. 535 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,840 I'm up here. I'm up here in Oregon where it 536 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,760 is a black man no man land. So I'm I'm perpetually, I'm 537 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,200 perpetually frustrated. So I have excuse me for my 538 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,840 frustration. Bleeds through everything. 539 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,440 No. Worries. 540 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,000 No worries. I have AI have a vanilla friend 541 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:48,000 who moved to Bend, I want to say a year ago and he's thinking 542 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,760 about moving to like the Portland area. 543 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,400 And so I remember it was a group of us that were together with 544 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,200 him at one of his at one of our lunches before he left and we 545 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,760 were laughing cause one of the one of my buddies said Oregon, 546 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,440 He's like he goes, I think the only other black people out 547 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,880 there are the Trail Blazers, exactly. 548 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,400 Exactly. And I'm just and you know 549 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,800 they're not easily dateable but you know, but yeah I and I often 550 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,520 joke, you know there's 66 black men that live here. 551 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:29,440 I've I've met them all and you know and yeah, so well. 552 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:33,080 So that's really that's really refreshing It's just really 553 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,520 refreshing to to talk to someone so self aware and in the role 554 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,719 that you play because it's it's really important and there are 555 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,760 those of us out here who so want what you, what you are and what 556 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,719 you have because it's just golden. 557 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,239 We've had our best experiences in the lifestyle with people 558 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,320 like you who are self aware and and and know how to act. 559 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,600 Just know how to act. I I don't know if you've seen 560 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:08,520 there's been a lot of articles recently and I I'm on medium 561 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,120 because it's a great place to curate content and to get 562 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,120 feedback on your content. But there's a lot of articles 563 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:21,800 that are appearing in there now that having to do with women 564 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:29,720 have sort of left behind men. You know, there's a lot of 565 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:35,120 articles out there about, you know, in cell men and that women 566 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,000 are just over it and they're not not putting up with the BS 567 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,280 anymore and you know, that's a real thing. 568 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,600 I wondered if that was right now. 569 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,160 I'm seeing it in print so much now that I think it's a probably 570 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,560 a real thing. But then you know and so at the 571 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,040 heart of the issue is it that women have, we have sort of 572 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,400 systemically raised our standards to the point where the 573 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,560 average man, unless he's self aware, unless he's willing to 574 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:07,360 take on himself and his self-awareness and and grow, he 575 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,200 might find himself really alone. As women have become more 576 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:17,720 financially capable, we, you know we often just opt out. 577 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,600 We opt out. And so that I, you know, I hope 578 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,320 that that's not here to stay. I hope that there's a Clarion 579 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,400 call for men to just rise. Whether you're black or white or 580 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,600 red or yellow or whatever you are. 581 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,280 You know be the most that you can be because there's a lot 582 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,880 available in life to you if you can develop those sensitivities 583 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,760 and. I I I'm really hoping that we're 584 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,480 we're at that point where men begin to begin to rise up 585 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:53,760 because you are 100% right there is this disconnect in which and 586 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,920 we're seeing these this a lot in these conversations that we're 587 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:05,280 having really about woke culture and toxic masculinity it's it's 588 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,920 quickly becoming a either or camp you have to be for 589 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,760 something or against something it's kind of becoming that 590 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:18,160 mindless tribal you know you're you you have to pick a label not 591 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,080 whether you've actually thought about the issues not actually 592 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,640 thought about what's the core of what's being discussed but just 593 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,160 pick one and then that's that's the group you have to go with 594 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,200 and you have to go with 100% of what they say. 595 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:38,080 And So what we're having right now is we're in an era where 596 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,880 probably for the first time since ancient societies that 597 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,960 were largely matriarchal in their leadership female 598 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:56,200 empowerment and it's a global phenomenon And so men who have 599 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,000 been in a male dominated society are now facing. 600 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,600 You know we're brought up in believing this one thing and 601 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,160 being taught this one thing about how we interact with the 602 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,080 world about how we look at ourselves how we view our 603 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,040 masculinity. How we view women, how we view 604 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,240 our sexuality, all of those things. 605 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:28,160 And a large part of that is built on these old notions of 606 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,920 roles and how women fit in their particular role. 607 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:38,400 And women in female empowerment kind of shatters all of that. 608 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,120 It threatens. It's very threatening. 609 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,960 It's very threatening when you when you know you're when you 610 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,320 know it's not about your pleasure anymore. 611 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,400 It's not about your ability to provide anymore. 612 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,280 It's you have to face someone who's the opposite sex, who is 613 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,560 now viewed as who is viewed as your equal, who can, you know, 614 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,840 do as much if not more than you can in society. 615 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,240 And that is very, very, very, very very threatening to a a 616 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:15,360 vast swath of men, but also to the voices that are really 617 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,680 influential right now, especially with men. 618 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,840 And I'm I'm hopeful that we don't go backwards. 619 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,600 It feels like it's sometimes that we are. 620 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,960 But I'm hopeful that because this is out there, this is in 621 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,680 the open, that a lot more men are going to have to realize 622 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,080 that they have to step up and they have to evolve. 623 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,880 For me personally, I have a big, so I I come from probably one of 624 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,640 the toughest arenas that it is to change. 625 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,880 And as far as like deprogramming and all of that, I grew up in a 626 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:59,440 very conservative Christian, evangelical religious 627 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,720 background. As a matter of fact, from the 628 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:10,600 time that I was 7 until about the time that I was 14. 629 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,080 They were training me to be a preacher because I was always 630 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,080 kind of the nerdy kid who's, you know, reading history and all of 631 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:24,080 those kinds of things. And so you know you're it's one 632 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,200 thing to grow up in that culture, but then it's another 633 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,600 thing to become someone who as a preacher is supposed to be a a a 634 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,160 steward, a guardian of that particular culture. 635 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,920 And then as you grow older and you realize I don't what I'm 636 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,040 feeling and where I'm being pulled towards and the knowledge 637 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,280 that I'm learning doesn't necessarily fit what I've been 638 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,400 taught. And so you have to do some 639 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,720 examination and that's really the hardest thing. 640 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,920 So now I have to examine about you know what I've been 641 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,840 learning, what I've what I've been taught and what is wrong 642 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,040 about that, what is so toxic about that and come to terms 643 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,960 with that. So the the the view of evolving 644 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,760 and doing that internal work I had to do at a very young age 645 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,440 when I start to realize that a lot of that stuff that I was 646 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,240 taught was not correct and it was incredibly toxic and was 647 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,440 limiting of who I could be as a person. 648 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,360 So coming out of that and transitioning into, OK, so this 649 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,080 is what I have to do to put forth the effort to evolve 650 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,840 within all areas of my life, not just as a bull, but within all 651 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,200 areas of my life. I've kind of reached that that 652 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,960 that space where I'm good with that because I've done, I've 653 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,200 done some really hard work, especially that a young need to 654 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:47,680 deprogram myself and to try to live my best and fullest self. 655 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:49,200 You know what I mean? Good. 656 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,000 On you because there's not very many people coming out of the 657 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,520 evangelical community that aren't that self aware and that 658 00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,640 and you put your thumb right on it. 659 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,960 A lot of this toxic stuff is coming right out of 660 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,240 evangelicalism. I mean that's been patriarchal 661 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,160 forever. I was in, I was a financial 662 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,000 advisor for many years and the office, the office that I was in 663 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,680 it, it's also a very male dominated field. 664 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,760 There were there were three of us, three of us females advisors 665 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,600 in that firm. The rest were all men. 666 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,400 Well, they had secret meetings every week, Promise keepers And 667 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,440 for those of you who don't know who the Promise Keepers are, 668 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:33,920 they believe that women should not. 669 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,800 I mean I was one of the biggest producers in the company and 670 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,480 they believe women should not work, that women, women have 671 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,840 only one role and that is to be breeders, to stay at home, have 672 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,640 kids. They are to be deferential to 673 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,560 the husband and that he, he is the leader of. 674 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,440 I mean how do you, how do you come out of that environment and 675 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,440 then arrive where you are. I mean that's like a miracle, 676 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,040 Drew. I mean, really, seriously, 677 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,120 that's that's that's big. The more that I look back on it, 678 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,120 the more that I I I I realized that that is true. 679 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:15,840 But it's also it's also helped that along the way I met some 680 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:24,440 really great and empathetic people who not only opened me up 681 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:32,040 to the possibility of what being different, what he evolving and 682 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:37,440 growing out of that looked like, but also worked with me where I 683 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,600 was. They met me where I was and 684 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,320 helped me to grow. But you. 685 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,760 But you had to bring to the table an open mind and curiosity 686 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,160 to even let that in. So good on you. 687 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,920 Holy cow, Holy cow. Well, I think you ought to go 688 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,720 back and start speaking to that community back there. 689 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:05,920 I, you know, I, oh, my goodness. I so, so my my my father's still 690 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,880 very much, you know, you know he was in Promise Keepers back in 691 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,880 the day when we were growing up. And you know he's still very 692 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:18,320 much, I mean even though he's not involved actively in like 693 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,040 you know many of the churches and organizations and things 694 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,760 like that, that mentality and that ideology is still very much 695 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,320 a part of him. You know how he looks at the 696 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,160 world. So just based on like his and I 697 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,400 interactions. I was going to ask you, what 698 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:35,880 kind of relationship do you have? 699 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,480 Those are those are two very different worlds. 700 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:43,320 It is oil and water. Is is is is literally oil and 701 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,560 water. And I feel like the older that I 702 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:54,160 get, the more comfortable I am and the more comfortable I am in 703 00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:06,880 my evolution, the happier I am. And for him, that represents it. 704 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:12,920 It for him that represents a a slap in the face, a sign of 705 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:19,000 disrespect, because it is a rejection of everything that he 706 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,480 put into me. Right, right. 707 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,480 So, yeah. And it's yeah. 708 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,760 So the I'll just put it this way that the the the best thing for 709 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,960 me to deal with that is to usually just kind of keep my 710 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,120 mouth shut and say, uh, huh, yes, Uh huh. 711 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,920 Yes. Whatever. 712 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:45,200 Whatever. No, I that's that's remarkable 713 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,320 and I'm super proud of you that you were able to take yourself 714 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,600 on and find your own happiness and your own truth in there and 715 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,240 and I think that's just the bottom line for all of us. 716 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:02,000 I mean at the end of the day, we have only so much allotted time 717 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,720 here on this earth and it's up to us to figure out, you know, 718 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:10,760 what's going to, what's going to offer the the most satisfying 719 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:16,840 existence that we can have here. And unfortunately, I don't think 720 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,360 enough people are even in that question enough. 721 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,560 They're sort of going on day by day. 722 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,280 And when there's so some of these deep questions are really 723 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,800 there to be asked and you can excavate such incredible joy and 724 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,200 freedom by just really being, honoring and being true to 725 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,840 yourself through that. Well, that's what a great 726 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,160 conversation this has been. I am just so excited to finally 727 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:47,080 talk to you and boy you are just a whole bag of gift. 728 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,320 That's. Thank you. 729 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,160 Thank you. You are, you are, you just are. 730 00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,440 I'm sure I had one other I I had a billion questions and of 731 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,720 course we get off on a tangent and I can't remember half of 732 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:08,080 them. It's typical, but since my 733 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,840 followers typically are much less experienced than you are, 734 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,520 what would be your best advice other than what you've already 735 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,880 given? To be self aware, To be curious, 736 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,880 to be open and to be kind? To be kind to people? 737 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,520 People who might want to? What's the best way do you 738 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,200 think? Or you could you advise people 739 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,840 to approach this lifestyle and find an entry point? 740 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:41,280 What do they need to know? What what resources should they 741 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,760 reach out for that would help them navigate their own way? 742 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,600 Well I kind of touched on it as far as you know what I feel 743 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,840 Bulls should do as far as you know couples, I think for them 744 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:03,840 really the communication is going to be one of the best, the 745 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,920 best things, you know one of the things that you see particularly 746 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:12,080 with our lifestyle is almost always it's the guy, the 747 00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:17,080 husband, the male partner who is usually interested 1st and finds 748 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,200 resources. And a lot of times the the most 749 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,560 prevalent resources are you know the bad stuff, the porn or the 750 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,960 memes or you know things that are usually are centered around 751 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,560 shame and guilt. But I would tell them to just 752 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,280 kind of dig deeper beyond that. I think you know if they're 753 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,600 listening to this podcast they're on a very you know 754 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,560 they're they're they're on a very good start to their journey 755 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,200 of learning more from individuals who are in the 756 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,840 lifestyle and to also listen to other you know podcast. 757 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,320 There's some other great ones like keys and ankles and as in 758 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,720 these cultures and some others that you can listen to that that 759 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,600 would be really great educational sources. 760 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,680 And one of the things that I find too dealing with new 761 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,520 couples is once these guys start to get this knowledge and then 762 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,920 they take it back, the wife wants to listen to this kind of 763 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,120 stuff rather than the other stuff because this is from real 764 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,600 people who can speak to individual instances. 765 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,680 So I would say communication, openness, honesty and patience 766 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,440 because a lot of times, you know, one of the things that I 767 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,920 see with, you know, a lot of these husbands is, you know, 768 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,440 they present it and of course, you know, you have to deal with 769 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:46,080 societal programming. So this lifestyle is very much 770 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:51,120 different from, you know, what we're programmed for societally. 771 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:57,280 So to to be patient with someone until they reach that point of 772 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,400 understanding, OK, this is something that I would like to 773 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,120 go and try. I or I trust you enough to 774 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,640 explore this particular Ave. And you know I've, I've told a 775 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,600 couple of guys this that one of the things that they have to 776 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,760 work on is work on your relationship, work on you know 777 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,320 who you are as a partner. Work on your trust. 778 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,600 So that way, like when you're bringing something to her, you 779 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,160 know? She's open. 780 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,720 Yeah, she's open, yeah. And it's not just some. 781 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,520 It's not just some, you know. Crazy idea. 782 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,520 Yeah, some, some, some fantasy that she brought to her, just 783 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,640 like, you know, 'cause you know, I, I, I told a buddy him honest. 784 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,720 Like it's like you know every guy you know it seems like if 785 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,320 you meet somebody and like especially if you become 786 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:54,160 intimate with them, all of us, almost all of us within like 787 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,680 that first I would say month. But really it's probably like 788 00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,680 that first week or two or something. 789 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,200 We've said something stupid like hey, let's have a threesome, you 790 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:03,800 know what I'm saying? Like and then we start bringing 791 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,920 out all this other. So they're used to you bringing 792 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:13,520 out these ideas but just be intentional in the way that you 793 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,120 approach this. So and it always, it goes back 794 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,120 to effort. It goes back to effort. 795 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,880 Goes back to Everett. Yeah, yeah, you. 796 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:29,160 You said a lot there again, that most it's mostly men who 797 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,920 discover, especially in the cuckold world, discovered at 798 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,720 first. But their only frame of 799 00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:37,560 reference is porn. And so they know they there's 800 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,480 something there that's attracting them to it. 801 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,160 But porn is not the deal. It's not the deal. 802 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,360 And so I would just say to add on to what Drew already advised, 803 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:53,680 which was great, great advice is do talk with people who are 804 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,000 actually living in the lifestyle to tell you what it's really 805 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,080 about. Venus is a great person. 806 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,200 Her whole thing is about loving cuckold relationships, and she 807 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,720 and I are very much aligned with that. 808 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:10,920 But find, talk to people or listen to people or listen to 809 00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,240 pot or listen to and read stuff from people who are actually 810 00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:16,280 living in that lifestyle. They're not just writing 811 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,440 erotica. They're not just writing porn. 812 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,280 They're not just only fans, you know, They're people who are 813 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,200 living a lifestyle because it's meaningful and joyful for them, 814 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,160 you know, and I think you also mentioned patience. 815 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,520 I think that's a key is to not try and go slow. 816 00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:35,840 Go slow. There's not a race here. 817 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,360 Go slow. Introduce one idea at a time, 818 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,440 talk it over, try it on mentally, see how it fits, and 819 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,680 if not, jettison it. Try something else. 820 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,200 But but get your input from people who know, from people who 821 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,160 are living this way. They'll give you the straight 822 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,640 scoop, where the potholes are, where the joy is, and everything 823 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,520 in between. So. 824 00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:00,320 And it's a lifestyle. It is. 825 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,280 It's, it's, it's it's a lifestyle. 826 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,560 Yes. You don't do you know everything 827 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,080 24/7, but it's sliced, it's a journey. 828 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,760 You know you're not, you know it's kind of like, you know, 829 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,800 dieting and exercise and and things like that, you know, So 830 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,080 growing up I used to be not I I was didn't come from an athletic 831 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,160 family or fitness minded or any of that kind of stuff. 832 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,760 And so when I get in, get involved in it, it's like, oh, 833 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,480 OK, so I want to hit this goal. And then if I start seeing this 834 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,480 and this and this and I'm reach this mark and then I reach that 835 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,440 mark and it's like, OK, well that didn't happen. 836 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,440 Now I'm disappointed. Now I'm checking out. 837 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,400 Now I'm looking for, you know, different things. 838 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,520 It's like, no, it's it's a journey. 839 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,440 It's a process. It's about consistency and 840 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,720 showing up and and doing the work, you know, So. 841 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:55,240 And boundaries. Boundaries are a great thing, 842 00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:01,320 yes, because that shows that you're thinking about it in a 843 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,280 way. But boundaries aren't always 844 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,440 permanent, so. Especially in a three person 845 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,800 configuration, they can morph around all over the place, but 846 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,560 it requires all of those people to be self aware enough to say 847 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,320 this is working for me and this is not working for me. 848 00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,160 Let's make an adjustment here. And is that working? 849 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,800 You know, And that communication about those things will lead you 850 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,800 to a very exalted place. And and that's what I hope for 851 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,880 everyone that dips a toe into this lifestyle, 'cause it isn't 852 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,840 something that, you know what, we're so far in, we we can't. 853 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,640 We could never put it down. We can't. 854 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,040 It isn't a pick up. It isn't a pick it up and put it 855 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:42,800 down thing. No. 856 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,800 We're. In this I'll be on the hunt for 857 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,800 black men till I die. I was actually telling this to a 858 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,800 really a really good lifestyle friend. 859 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,280 I was telling them, I said I've been in this so long that I 860 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,120 don't even really vanilla date. Like, if I start dating someone 861 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,040 seriously, it's either going to be someone who is in this 862 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,560 lifestyle or who is open to it because I can't see myself 863 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,200 leaving. But you're not going to put it 864 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:12,480 down. Yeah, yeah. 865 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,120 And that's, that's, those are the kind of people, listeners, 866 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,280 that you want to get your information from because they 867 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,960 are living it, because they believe in it, because they 868 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,560 found. And why is that? 869 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:29,400 Because we have collectively found tremendous joy and freedom 870 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,320 and just joy in it, which keeps us here, which means we can't 871 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,720 step away because why would we? There's no reason that we would. 872 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,680 There's no reason that we would. Those are the people you wanna 873 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,560 take your advice from? Exactly. 874 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,880 Really, Drew, I loved every single second of this. 875 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,560 We're gonna have to do it again. I'll come up with a whole other 876 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,600 tier of questions, but I. Thank you. 877 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,840 I'm down. So, so, so, so much for your 878 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,000 time. I know it's valuable and I just 879 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:03,080 appreciate you so much. And I for for our listeners, I 880 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:07,920 will post all of Drew's contact information, his website, the 881 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:14,360 magazine, please subscribe. It's golden and you'll be able 882 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,040 to contact him there. But thank you sincerely for 883 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,840 spending some time with me. I just, you know, I'm gonna be 884 00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,600 thinking about stuff you've said now all night and and then I'll 885 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,040 have to start writing it down because you know, that's that's 886 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:31,400 how I roll, so. Anyway, I'm glad to be on, glad 887 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,400 to make this connection with you and have this fantastic 888 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,720 conversation. This is, yeah, this is. 889 00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,600 Super fun. Thank you so, so much. 890 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,400 Until next time. Until next time. 891 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,480 Thank you for tuning in. You can access Crystal's latest 892 00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,240 blog and podcast at C Welch Poly on Medium and find her on 893 00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:56,720 Twitter at Crystal Welch 99. Your questions and comments are 894 00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:59,400 always welcome. Also, if you're enjoying the 895 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,040 show, please feel free to rate, subscribe, or leave a review 896 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,920 wherever you listen to your podcasts. 897 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,720 We appreciate it and we'll catch you in the next episode.