1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,560 He gets a lot of joy out of me being the one in charge, but 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:08,640 it's so hard, especially for men like my husband, to let that go. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,520 Like they want it so bad, but they fight it. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,880 They have this huge desire and fantasy to be super submissive, 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,160 but to actually do it, it's some days it's like pulling teeth. 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,280 Like, hey, you forgot who's in charge here, man. 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,120 Hey everybody, I just wanted to give you a quick notice. 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,840 I am starting to offer a one-on-one coaching session. 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,600 It's called Ask Crystal. It is coaching for individuals 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,160 and couples as they explore ethical non monogamy. 11 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:51,800 Whatever your dynamic is. I've been living in this dynamic 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,240 for 10 years and I've learned a ton, and I hope to share some of 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,520 that wisdom with you in the hopes that it will help you. 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,360 So you'll get the details in the show notes and I hope to see you 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,879 there. Hello listeners. 16 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:08,760 Crystal Well Chair, and I am happy to report we've got a good 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,640 conversation to have today with cuckolders. 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,280 Abby. She is a queen of spades, She is 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,320 a content creator and she's going to tell us a little bit 20 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:23,720 about how she got into this lifestyle and and where she's at 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,160 with everything and maybe where she might hope to go sometime. 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,320 So, Abby, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,080 Let's start with how, how were you raised? 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,360 What did you hope for relationship wise as a kid? 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,960 I mean, did you aspire to like just get married, have some 26 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:43,640 kids, White picket fence? That's how I grew up. 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,240 How did you What were the ideas that you had about relationship 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,560 when you were small and maybe even before you were ever 29 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,560 looking for a partner? Pretty similar to yours. 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,040 I grew up. My parents are actually still 31 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,440 married. So I grew up with married 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,760 parents who, you know, I, I strongly believed in marriage, 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:09,120 but I noticed they didn't have the most loving relationship. 34 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,120 And so I knew I wanted something different, like a different kind 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,440 of marriage, But I knew I always wanted to like I was like, I'm 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,680 going to be married and have kids and everything's going to 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,200 be perfect. So when you thought about having 38 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,520 a different kind of marriage, did that just mean that you 39 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,640 wanted one that was conflict free or you wanted a completely 40 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:30,320 different situation? My dad is a very passive person, 41 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,960 and my mom is definitely the dominant person. 42 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:38,960 And I always didn't like that so much just because my dad never 43 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,760 stood his ground, you know? And so I was like, I want a 44 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,160 strong man. I want a guy who's going to put 45 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,480 me in my place if I needed to, which ultimately it led me to 46 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,880 picking really bad men. But it's interesting how that 47 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,720 works in the psyche. I just recently had a 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,760 conversation along those lines. I can be very assertive and very 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,800 sort of masculine. And now I'm drawn to the same 50 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,520 thing. I'm drawn to very, very 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,400 masculine men for, for some of the same reasons that you 52 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,920 identified that I I wanted what I didn't have. 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,720 And it's interesting how we just develop like that as human 54 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,240 beings. So now you're married and you 55 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,040 have a family and you're also in the lifestyle. 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,360 How did all of that happen? So my husband and I met on a 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:32,480 dating site which happened to be a kink website and on his 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,480 profile it noted that he was into cuckolding which I had no 59 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,840 idea what that was. So I had been recently divorced 60 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,120 and looking just to I was like I'm never getting married again. 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,240 I'm going to live my best life, I'm going to fulfill all of my 62 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,320 desires. So I went on the website 63 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,120 thinking I was kind of kinky, but I have no idea the level of 64 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,600 kink that I had in me or that there was out there in the 65 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,200 world. So I met him on there and it was 66 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,320 a pretty easy conversation honestly because of the way we 67 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,160 met on that on that website to start the journey. 68 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,400 But when I first Googled what it was, I was very shocked and 69 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,399 turned off. Like there's no way I'm doing 70 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:20,240 that. Well, tell me more about this 71 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,480 'cause you, you know that you wanted something different and 72 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:30,440 you're on a kink website. How did he explain cuckoldry to 73 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,600 you? And what about that turned you 74 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,800 off? When you Google it like it's, it 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,400 literally sounds like there's this little tiny guy in the 76 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,400 corner and you're demeaning them and degrading them and like, how 77 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,520 can I ever treat someone I love like that? 78 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 That sounds mean. I can never do that. 79 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,320 And then he sent me Venus's podcast and he said this is a 80 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,120 really lovely podcast. It really explains it well. 81 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,720 And there were some people on Twitter I didn't even know there 82 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:05,680 was naughty Twitter at the time. So he sent me Venus's podcast 83 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,560 and I binged listened to several of her episodes. 84 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,520 She described it so beautifully. And then some of the people I 85 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,680 would follow on Twitter showed it and I saw through watching 86 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,520 some of that. Like it actually is loving. 87 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,280 Like you can tell the partner is loving it. 88 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:27,400 It's not mean. And you could see that love. 89 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,200 And that's when I was like, OK, I can do this. 90 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,200 That's that's really helpful for new people looking to try and 91 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,400 find a way in. So thanks for explaining that. 92 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,640 And I think have, you know, I know I learned along the way 93 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,640 that not everybody has to do this the same way. 94 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,400 I know some perfectly lovely cuckolders and long term 95 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,400 marriages and they don't do any part of the humiliation play. 96 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,560 That's fine. You know, it's just finding what 97 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,360 works for you. My husband happens to love it, 98 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,160 you know, does does your husband, did he embrace that 99 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:04,600 part of it or you do you do more of a just non monogamous thing? 100 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,480 He likes he He has a fantasy for the humiliation. 101 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,040 It's hard to do because I feel like in order to do that you 102 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,840 have to have the right bowl. He's hard to humiliate because 103 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:22,040 he like I can't do the small penis humiliation because he is 104 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,040 not small person. He's very well endowed. 105 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,600 So it's kind of a joke, but so I have had to learn that. 106 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,440 There's definitely things we were wanting to explore further 107 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,880 in the humiliation aspect, but yeah, I guess Long story short, 108 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,200 he is into the humiliation part of it. 109 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,320 And so that's really interesting. 110 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:49,400 Talk a little bit more about how you rearranged your mindset to 111 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,440 be open and that you realized that you weren't hurting him, 112 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,320 but it's something that he enjoyed and something that might 113 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,000 have been sexually stimulating to him. 114 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:00,680 How did you sort of school yourself along those lines? 115 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,720 More trial and error to be honest. 116 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,200 So like our first date when we so when we met, we were long 117 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,800 distance and so he said we'll just keep dating and just send 118 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,400 me pictures or whatever. So I did that, but I thought who 119 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:16,560 cares? He doesn't care. 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,840 We haven't even met. So but then when we met, we went 121 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,000 to I had a kind of pre arranged I'd been speaking to a guy. 122 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,200 I pre arranged for this guy to meet us at this local sex club 123 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,440 and so we went on on our first date there and ended up taking 124 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,600 this other guy back with us to the hotel. 125 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,760 And so it was kind of like a test for me to see how he was 126 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,240 going to react to that scenario. And through the whole evening at 127 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,960 the club, I was kind of having fun, obviously, but also testing 128 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,600 him to see like, is he going to react like previous partners and 129 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,720 like, get jealous or shame me later? 130 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,400 And none of that happened. And I saw like his eyes were lit 131 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,280 up like a Christmas tree. And you can just see that like 132 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,600 just total adoration. And he was totally into me. 133 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,960 And we'd already developed a pretty good connection online or 134 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,640 not online, but speaking to each other since we were long 135 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,120 distance that it just, it was just like fireworks. 136 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,280 So it sounded like that, just the willingness to experiment, 137 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,920 to try something and and then follow that where it goes. 138 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,840 That is hugely great advice for our listeners out there that 139 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,159 wonder about that and are afraid to do that. 140 00:08:35,159 --> 00:08:40,159 But it sounds like you had a great experience and and when 141 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:45,320 you could observe that he was just totally enamoured of you 142 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:50,800 for indulging in this thing that you guys were creating together, 143 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,280 what did that do to your level of trust for him? 144 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,960 Oh, it magnified it. Like I don't think I've ever 145 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:03,360 really fully trusted someone. Like I trust him because it just 146 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,280 because I've always been a promiscuous person. 147 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:11,240 I've always been pretty outgoing and it's a lot of what guys 148 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,560 always love about me when they meet me. 149 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,920 And then when they date me, they're like, quit flirting, 150 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,880 quit being flirtatious. And I could see that he that 151 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,680 never turns him off. He actually loves it. 152 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,960 And so to be able to be my true authentic self, I've never felt 153 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,560 more me or more able to trust a partner in my whole entire life. 154 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,160 You have just said a mouthful there, girlfriend. 155 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,440 I know I have to often talked about this profound intimacy 156 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,960 that can come from this lifestyle. 157 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:52,880 And you just very succinctly described how that happens where 158 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,440 you have an idea and you are unsure, but you try something 159 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,040 and then you see how everybody feels about it and then you talk 160 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,280 about it. You know, all of a sudden you go 161 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,320 from a relationship to like real intimacy and that's where the 162 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,080 party is. And it's hard. 163 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,080 It's it's thank you for sharing that because that's, that'll be 164 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,320 really, really helpful for our listeners who are looking for an 165 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,200 on ramp and not quite sure how to find it because they're 166 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,280 scared of all these different elements. 167 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,760 And that was very, very, very helpful. 168 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,120 So thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. 169 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,840 You guys have been together for now a couple of years and what 170 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:41,800 challenges have you met that you that you've been able to solve 171 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,000 and some may be that you haven't been able to solve? 172 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,320 Well, he was in the lifestyle for a good 20 years before 173 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,920 meeting me. So he's had a lot of experience 174 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:58,480 in lots of things where I was coming in as newbie and pretty 175 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,440 much open and willing to like he always tells everybody like I 176 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,200 just dove in head first. So it's pretty much open and 177 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,960 willing to kind of just let's do this, he'd say. 178 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,240 He'd bring up a topic kind of like throw it out the wall and 179 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:17,080 see if it sticks kind of person. And now further into it, I felt 180 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:22,080 like he was kind of driving it a little bit on certain things. 181 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,520 And then now it's like now that I'm settling in to me, there's 182 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,040 certain things that I like more that maybe he doesn't love so 183 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,000 much. And so we've had to find a 184 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:38,000 balance as far as that goes because, you know, he sometimes 185 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 he has, you know, we've had things happen and he's like, 186 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,200 this is not how I imagined our lifestyle, like at all. 187 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,600 And I'm like, well, you, it's not just one way, like I get to 188 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,920 decide too. Now. 189 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,520 It's not just, you know, we have to have these discussions 190 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,720 because it's going to evolve over time because we're both 191 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,920 going to decide what works, what doesn't. 192 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,600 Something I might like, he might not. 193 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Those are some of the challenges we've had. 194 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,480 Which are all absolutely perfectly normal. 195 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,320 Nothing in our society teaches us how to have a healthy non 196 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,320 monogamous relationship. But you said a couple things 197 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,320 that are really important there. And first of all, your 198 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:26,800 recognition of him and your appreciation of him who embraces 199 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,840 and encourages your personal sexuality. 200 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,440 That's huge because the men in our culture, that's not what 201 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,280 they're taught. You know, the patriarchy says 202 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,240 women stay home, have the kids be quiet, don't vote, whatever 203 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,000 they you know, and so saying go ahead and you know, fuck the guy 204 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,840 down the street is it's it's usually not on the menu, you 205 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,080 know, and and so, but but you describe that beautifully how 206 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,600 you guys are navigating in that you're appreciating him for just 207 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,040 letting you be you. You know that you feel yourself 208 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,200 for the very first time that you can experience your own 209 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,240 sexuality as it is, and not everything is going to be 210 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,840 predictable even to you. You know, you'll find you might 211 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,840 find things that you really enjoy or really don't enjoy and 212 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,320 it it'll all be a surprise. But the fact that you have 213 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,280 figured out that as you talk about these things, you can 214 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,480 figure out what works, what bothers the other person, how 215 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,400 much, how important is it? And then and you just, and you 216 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,880 navigate that way. So that that was really, really 217 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:33,760 helpful. Thanks. 218 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,800 Thanks again for sharing that. You're welcome. 219 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,560 Is there anything in your experience that you haven't been 220 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:43,160 able to solve yet and that you're still kind of grappling 221 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,560 with? I I wouldn't say we haven't been 222 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,720 able to solve it. It's just kind of like I 223 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,680 mentioned before, just the evolution of certain things and 224 00:13:54,680 --> 00:14:01,240 then also balancing regular life with lifestyle because, you 225 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,000 know, before we were long distance, so I would have to 226 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,320 play by myself and then we'd have to do it that way. 227 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,720 We figured out a way to do that long distance. 228 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,480 And then now that we're in the same home, well now it's family. 229 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,880 And so you think, how do you do that? 230 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,960 And what if we can't have a sitter and then we're still in 231 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,280 the same boat where, you know, you might have, I might have to 232 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,560 go by myself. And then we really haven't 233 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:34,680 finessed the when I play by myself because it's just, well, 234 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,320 I'm just, I'm just too nice. I just, I really love, I 235 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,040 wouldn't say I'm too nice, but like he's a, he wants the bull 236 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,160 to come in and have his way with me and then see you later, you 237 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,160 know, or if he's there and he's having a small talk, that's 238 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,520 fine. But when he's not there, he's 239 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,960 like, what the fuck? It's taking so long. 240 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,440 Like why aren't you calling me? I'm ready to talk about this. 241 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,320 I'm excited and I'm just so in in the zone and enjoying it. 242 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,280 I love the connection that I do have with my bowls. 243 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,560 So I love to chat, chat and snuggle and all of those things. 244 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,200 Have you guys set some boundaries that way? 245 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,840 Like if I'm out with a bull, I, you know, it's, don't call me, 246 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,240 I'll call you, you know, have you set some rules or some 247 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,600 boundaries like that that will help, help it be a little less 248 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,600 gritty? Oh yeah, we had to learn that 249 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,880 cause one time he was like, I texted him like we're done. 250 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,280 And then we were, me and the guy were talking for like 30-45 251 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,560 minutes and by the end of it, he was like irate. 252 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,920 And so then he's like, OK, just don't tell me you're done until 253 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,000 he's like leaving, you know, So we've had to like go over things 254 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,960 like, OK, this is what you, you just can't just don't text me 255 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,760 till like you're free to talk, 'cause when, when it's done, 256 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,080 when he thinks I'm done, he wants to talk. 257 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,880 It's his time in his mind, it's his time for us to have that 258 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,200 time of even if it's on the phone or if you know, he's out 259 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,240 of town or whatever, then that's our time. 260 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,280 So he doesn't want to know I'm done playing until I I can 261 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,080 actually talk to him on the phone or if I'm coming home. 262 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,440 That seems that seems like a reasonable compromise. 263 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,920 Was that pretty easy for you to implement that? 264 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,560 Yeah, it was, but it was just, it was just a learning curve of 265 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,000 trying to figure out like, OK, how do we, you know, how do you 266 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,360 feel? Cause he's pretty easygoing, but 267 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000 that was just kind of the one thing that we really kind of 268 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,640 struggled with finessing. Haven't you noticed that when 269 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,320 they get sexually excited, they're not very reasonable? 270 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,600 No. Go on. 271 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,840 Like calm down. I'm like, I'm in cloud 9 over 272 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,280 here. I just got my world rocked. 273 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,800 I know, back the fuck off and go Jack off or something. 274 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,520 Why are you? So mad about leave me. 275 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,640 Alone. That's funny. 276 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,319 I love that, that's really funny, but it's really true. 277 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,640 Men with hard ONS are not reasonable at all. 278 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,640 They're all their thoughts. Down there. 279 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can't talk to them. 280 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,119 They're, you know, Yeah, Like that. 281 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,760 So you said some important things there. 282 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,560 And this comes up very, very frequently with, if not most, 283 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,440 very many women who are consider themselves to be cuckoldresses 284 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,160 and men who want to be cucks. This notion of sort of topping 285 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,080 from the bottom where they desperately want you to do it, 286 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,840 but they want you to do it their way, their time on their time 287 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,520 schedule, their way and everything like the way they 288 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,280 want it. It sounds like you're 289 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,240 communicating pretty well with your husband, but how do you, 290 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,960 let's say, get him to recognize first of all, that he's topping 291 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,880 from the bottom and that's not what this is about? 292 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,560 And maybe a couple of ideas about how you redirect him when 293 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,600 he's doing that. That's a good point that I do 294 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,880 think he that is, and until you said that I'm like, he, that's 295 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,840 exactly what he's doing and I hadn't thought about it and I 296 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,720 don't that's something probably I need to work on is telling him 297 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,480 because I've, I've said before, you know, this isn't always 298 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,240 going to be the way you've imagined it, because now you 299 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,560 have me involved. Before it was just you and your 300 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,840 imagination. So that's a good reminder. 301 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,920 I do need to do that because my husband is a very alpha, like in 302 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,200 every, every aspect of life he is. 303 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,120 And so he definitely tries to talk from the bottom all the 304 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,360 time. And I think if he realized he 305 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,280 would, he would, you know, just really kind of giggle at me 306 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,960 because he would know I'm right. Well, it's, it's definitely an 307 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,160 issue that that you don't want to just sweep under the carpet 308 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,880 because because you know, one way that I have found that has 309 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,720 worked with my husband is to let him know when he's doing it and 310 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,800 say, I understand your motivations for that because you 311 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,960 want to see it a certain way. And he doesn't do it at all 312 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,160 anymore. But in, in the early days, but 313 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,280 it, it's it, it begins to rob my joy. 314 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:21,840 Yeah. What's joyful? 315 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,960 What's what's joyful about this is that I can finally be myself 316 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,400 and own my sexuality and have a man that celebrates that. 317 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,120 But it's on my terms, not yours. Exactly. 318 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,960 And and if and if you bring that to his attention, that when he 319 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,720 does that, it starts to rob your joy and your freedom and you 320 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,720 defeat the whole purpose of it. Well, and it probably, if he was 321 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,320 being honest, it probably defeats his joy too, because he 322 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,240 gets a lot of joy out of me being the one in charge. 323 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,600 But it's so hard, especially for men like my husband, to let that 324 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,920 go. Like they want it so bad, but 325 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,600 they fight it. They have this huge desire and 326 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,040 fantasy to be super submissive, but to actually do it, it's. 327 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,320 Some days it's like pulling teeth, like, hey, you forgot 328 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,040 who's in charge here, man. Yeah. 329 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,880 No, I I totally get it. My husband is a total A2 and he 330 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,040 just craves this other side. It's easier when you have a, an 331 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,080 A a longer term bull that understands that and can kind of 332 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,480 help play that role out. But in the absence of that, when 333 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,160 you're just dealing with mostly one off strangers here and 334 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,120 there, it's really up to you to to regulate that. 335 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:42,040 But for the cucks that are listening out there, take this 336 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:49,440 conversation to heart and understand that you probably 337 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,440 formulated a lot of your ideas about how you want it to be from 338 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,240 porn. Your wife is not a porn star and 339 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:03,480 she's not your kink dispenser. Encourage her to express herself 340 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,840 sexually 'cause you'll get more joy out of that and she'll get 341 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,480 more joy out of that. And let her do it her way. 342 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,200 She may do one thing one day and another thing another day, but 343 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,920 let her be free. That's what she finds joy in, 344 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:21,440 and that's what you ultimately are finding joy in. 345 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,880 And every time you try and top from the bottom, you rob her 346 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,720 joy. Yes, and and so stop it. 347 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,040 Stop it. Just stop it. 348 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,200 Yeah, I don't remember exactly what it was. 349 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:40,360 The other day I did something and I denied him and he was 350 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,000 like, you've been watching my Twitter. 351 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,320 Why yes, I have. Yeah, thank you for the idea. 352 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,360 And I have a whole list of plans for you. 353 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,560 Yes. Which you will obey. 354 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,040 No, it it's fun, it should be fun. 355 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,920 It should be playful, it should be no, you know, if, if you're 356 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,920 bumping up against the tension thing, then then somebody's off 357 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,360 track a little bit. But this topping from the bottom 358 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,960 is really common. And it, and it does, it robs 359 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,840 joy. It robs joy and freedom 'cause 360 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,920 that's what it robs is your freedom to make your own 361 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,760 choices. And that freedom is attached to 362 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,960 the joy that this lifestyle can bring. 363 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,040 So. And I wonder if it's harder for 364 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,600 Cox, who Like my husband, who they've been in the lifestyle or 365 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,960 cucks that have had previous cuckolding relationships and 366 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,800 they have someone newer like me. You know, that once they're 367 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:41,360 cuckoldress actually like gains her voice and knows, OK, this is 368 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:43,560 how I'm doing it. This is what I want and this is 369 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,440 how I'm going to play with my bulls. 370 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,280 And it might look different than what you thought playing with 371 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,560 her bulls might look like. Like you have to be OK with it. 372 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:56,840 Well, that's exactly right. And again, I think too many of 373 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,680 them are bringing in their own ideas from whatever they've seen 374 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,680 in porn. But here's here is the payoff 375 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,440 for you guys. I hope you're listening. 376 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,560 The joy that your wife has gotten from you embracing her 377 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,760 freedom and her sexuality, that comes back to you in spades when 378 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:21,160 if you're an alpha and you can see your wife gets to observe 379 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,480 you being subservient to her and a bull or however that plays out 380 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,440 for you. That sense of value and that 381 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,400 that deep affection that comes from having another human being 382 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,720 recognize this sort of shameful thing that you hold that I think 383 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,480 many cucks are, are ashamed because they have this 384 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,320 subservient thing when society tells them they need to be 385 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,120 strong and aggressive all the time. 386 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:56,120 You know, when you're loving partner can see you lay all that 387 00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:01,120 down and be submissive to her or the bull or whoever. 388 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:07,040 However that's working out. Your addiction to your wife will 389 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,040 escalate about 10 points because it works both ways. 390 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,680 She's going to love and appreciate you more for letting 391 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,080 her be free. You will get the same thing. 392 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,960 On the flip side, B let it go. Stop trying to control and your 393 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,200 wife will observe you doing that and she'll love you even more. 394 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720 Instead of shaming you, which is what you're most likely afraid 395 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,880 of, she's going to love you even more. 396 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,280 So try that on because that's now we're starting to get down 397 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,200 into where the goodies are in the cuckold life. 398 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,640 It's this profound intimacy that can come from it, but it goes 399 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,760 both ways. It's not just A1 sided thing. 400 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,120 Yes. What do you hope for the future 401 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,760 for you and your husband? How How would if you had your 402 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,640 ideal wish, how would your dynamic evolve over time and, 403 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,880 and or or just keep or just progressing in the way that it 404 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,680 is? So for the future, we don't have 405 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,400 a huge community out where I live for for cuckolding. 406 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,520 And so I've kind of been reaching out to some couples 407 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,360 that I've seen on social media recently to hopefully start a 408 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:27,480 group because I would love to have a community of like minded 409 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,880 people. I've gone to some events and 410 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,880 just being around people who you can fill your like fill your 411 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,520 complete self around. Also to like meet other bulls. 412 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,040 I found a couple local bulls that I like, but it would just 413 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:47,640 be nice to have that connection of other couples that are like 414 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,240 us too. And I feel like it would benefit 415 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,480 them and our community because I feel like this is such a 416 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,440 wonderful relationship. It is the best I've ever been 417 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,560 in. I just feel like more women 418 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,880 should explore it, you know, And I just would like to share that 419 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,760 with as many people as I can. You know, I have exactly the 420 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,200 same motivation. You know, I think our 421 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,760 relationship now is probably 10 or 20 times more intimate and 422 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,640 more joyful than the marriage I was in for many, many years. 423 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,440 And it is the consummate cake and eat it too lifestyle if you 424 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,800 do it correctly. And I think you shared a lot of 425 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,280 the Nuggets about how you start and and you're careful along the 426 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,720 way and you, you know, self correct when need be. 427 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,800 And those are all the steps that it takes. 428 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,040 But the joy and the intimacy and the connection that you get is 429 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,320 just unparalleled. And I agree with you totally. 430 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,880 We all, we have a very small community of like minded and I 431 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,880 feel that probably it's mostly going to be online because 432 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,360 they're not in our area. It'd be great if they were. 433 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,800 But staying in touch with the people that you resonate with, 434 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,800 however you need to do it. I think community is very, very 435 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,760 important because we can all share ideas, support each other, 436 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,520 have a group of people that can help you problem solve when you 437 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,160 need it. I think the men especially need 438 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,680 that. Women tend to make friendships a 439 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,120 lot easier and I think it's really good for the men to 440 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,200 connect with other men and say, man, I didn't know she was going 441 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:28,360 to put me in high heels. Yeah, I've noticed that with my 442 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:29,760 husband. Like when we've gone to 443 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,680 lifestyle events, like the first one we went to, he was like, Oh 444 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,640 my God, like look at all these people. 445 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,360 They look, they're just like when he started, he felt like, 446 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,600 you know, ashamed and like, why do I like this? 447 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,080 And then he was around all these other people that had the same 448 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,400 desires. And you would think you'd see 449 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,440 them at PTA meeting and you're like, Oh my gosh. 450 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,760 So now you walk around at school or at the grocery store 451 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,800 wondering, are they? Do you know, 'cause there's so 452 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,440 many people that are in the lifestyle, you just wouldn't 453 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,000 know. Yeah. 454 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,080 And I think, yeah, that's absolutely true. 455 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,480 They're they're everywhere. They're around us everywhere. 456 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,800 But a lot of this, I think, especially on the male parts, 457 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,680 has to do with coming to terms with their own shame. 458 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:23,520 And community can go a long way to helping you recognize that 459 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,720 you're not so you're not a weirdo, that you're not a 460 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,640 pervert. You know, there's lots of men 461 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,720 that have those ideas and those fantasies and they have 462 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,640 beautiful relationships with their wives and girlfriends. 463 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,600 And dealing with shame is is a big hump to get over. 464 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,320 But recognizing that it's there is like the first step. 465 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,960 So yeah, Abby, as we close out, let the listeners know where 466 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,320 they can find you. So you can find me on Twitter or 467 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,400 X as it's called. I don't know what to call it 468 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,840 anymore. Cuckoldress Abigail or a 469 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,000 cuckold? Just Abby. 470 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680 And then also there's links on there for my only fans if you 471 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,240 want to check out some of my kinkier stuff. 472 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,480 Well, you've, you've really given us some great, great, 473 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,040 great food for thought here and I'm so glad that we got a chance 474 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,480 to chat and I hope we can do it again sometime soon. 475 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,560 Me too. So thank you so much for your 476 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,640 time. I appreciate you. 477 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,560 Yeah, thank you for having me on. 478 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,560 I had a great time.