1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,080 We have two sexual dynamics ands and minds, and we and we're 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,480 totally connected together to create 1. 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,400 And so you can't say there's an unfairness on one side or the 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,040 other when we each are getting something from this. 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:20,080 This is something that gives you so much more than, to be honest, 6 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:22,680 than an orgasm. I mean, it's, it's basically 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,080 edging me to, you know, a thrill in some point. 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,720 Well, obviously the person that asked the question doesn't 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,400 really understand which is helping. 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:41,800 Yeah. Hey everybody, I just wanted to 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,120 give you a quick notice. I am starting to offer a 12 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:50,000 one-on-one coaching session. It's called Ask Crystal, it is 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,360 coaching for individuals and couples as they explore ethical 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,880 non monogamy. Whatever your dynamic is, I've 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,840 been living in this dynamic for 10 years and I've learned a ton. 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,840 And I hope to share some of that wisdom with you in the hopes 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,080 that it will help you. So you'll get the details in the 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,840 show notes and I hope to see you there. 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,120 Hello everyone, this is Crystal Welch here and I am super 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,920 excited. We have a special episode today. 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,360 I'm being joined by my cuck husband Bitchard, as well as my 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,600 Co podcaster Anne and her husband James. 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,960 So we we've talked about a lot of different topics over the 24 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:35,320 last few months and very often we said, wow, I want it'd be 25 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:38,800 great to hear their own viewpoint on that particular 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,760 thing. So we can't remember all those 27 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,880 things, but we're going to do our best to try. 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,720 And we don't know what we say. We have to listen to our own 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,240 podcast again. But anyway, I'm going to 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,040 introduce them and then we're we're going to try and get some 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,920 cock perspective. Anna and I have our ideas about 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,520 what we think they experience and what they think. 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,440 But today is the day they can spill the tea on their own. 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,640 So welcome Bitchard. Say hello. 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,120 Hello everyone. Oh, and it's Bitchard's birthday 36 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,600 too. And Anne, why don't you go ahead 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,760 and introduce your lovely husband? 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,240 Well hello everyone Crystal, it's so great to be back. 39 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,160 This is James, my cuckold, filled with a small J. 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,000 So James with a dot, as we like to say, but he's happy to be 41 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,840 here too. Yes, this. 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,720 This should be fun A. Couple of things we're going to 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:40,040 tackle today is, is this fair? Is being a cuckold fair? 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,920 What do they actually get out of it? 45 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,480 Along those lines, we're going to be talking, we'll do it in 46 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,920 sort of a past, present, future format. 47 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:56,640 So I'm going to start off with, I'd like you guys to answer, how 48 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,640 did you get started? When did you know you were a 49 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:03,800 cuck and how did you know that and how did you start? 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:12,000 Richard, go ahead. Oh hey, so in AI got to really 51 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,560 wrap wrap the clock back in a previous marriage, my ex-wife 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,520 cheated on me and I was I was gone on a trip and I got back 53 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,800 and she acted weird and this went for about two weeks and 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,080 then I'm like, look, what the hell is going on with you? 55 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,640 You know, why haven't you been talking to me or interacting or 56 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:35,360 anything? And then she just starts crying, 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,880 you know, and, and she said, I'm sorry, we'd only been married 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,200 like two months. And she said, I'm so sorry, but 59 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,720 I cheated on you and, and I was like, what the what the hell, 60 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:48,360 man? You know, we've only been 61 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,920 married a couple months. And. 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,760 And then so at the same time I'm kind of feeling angry. 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,840 I, I feel a tug coming from below my belt, like, what the 64 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,960 hell, What are you doing down there? 65 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,640 You know, and next thing I know is we're on the kitchen floor 66 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,240 banging like teenagers and I go, wow, I don't know what just 67 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,760 happened, but that was kind of fun, you know? 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,040 And so that's was my first, my first cuckolding experience, I 69 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,120 guess. And her and I had we lived in 70 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,160 the Bay Area and had a pretty active life. 71 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,800 As a matter of fact, I'm going to drop this on you guys. 72 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:33,080 Just a few weeks ago, Crystal was talking about Anne and James 73 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,600 and, and I don't know why I'd never paid that much attention. 74 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,840 James, you can probably relate, but all of a sudden I'm like 75 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:42,160 Anne and James, Anne and James. I remember an Anne and James 76 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:47,400 from fmsb.org and and then all the sudden I went back and 77 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,560 looked and sure enough it was you guys. 78 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,000 And I'm saying I wrote about you on that website for like 10. 79 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,840 Years. Oh man. 80 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,800 That's do you, do you remember what I'm talking about? 81 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,360 What do you? What was it? 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,280 What was it again? The website. 83 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,960 FM FM SB It was fuck my slut bride but they just used the the 84 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,920 letters fmsb.org. I. 85 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,120 Don't remember that. Was that part like a Yahoo? 86 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,240 I don't remember that. Maybe. 87 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,640 No, no, no. It's it's what was it That was 88 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,200 its domain and then they changed it to something about married 89 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,400 something here recently. Oh, isn't. 90 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,960 That where your blog is, it's. Like Cuckold. 91 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:28,880 Marriage. Yeah. 92 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,760 It's probably cuckold. Marriage. 93 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,000 Yeah. Cuckold marriage, Yeah, right. 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 95 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,880 He yeah, he changed it. Yeah, that's right. 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,400 Yeah, yeah, that goes. Back about 10 years, 10 years 97 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,800 ago, we changed it I think. But anyway, so. 98 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,800 That's in the small world right there. 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,480 Yeah, so that's how I, I'm like, oh, I know them. 100 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,800 Hell, I've been reading about them forever, you know I. 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,920 Thought maybe you were going to go back to the Yahoo groups when 102 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,840 we. Yeah, we were on Yahoo Groups 103 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:00,320 too. That was, yeah, we that was 104 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,560 another part of our introduction into the lifestyle was there was 105 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,840 a really active gangbang group down in the Bay Area called The 106 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:11,320 Crew and they did interracial gangbangs. 107 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,480 And they, that's how we first got involved with them was 108 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,760 through like the Yahoo. What did they call those groups, 109 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,040 The Yahoo group? That was true. 110 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,680 And so we started going to the interracial gangbangs and met a 111 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,400 bunch of people in the lifestyle. 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,840 And that was sort of my start in this whole thing. 113 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,760 So that's that's sort of the roots of my beginnings. 114 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,680 Yeah, I, my story is a little bit different. 115 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,720 There was no one specific event like you were describing. 116 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,680 I think people probably know or if they don't know, we've been, 117 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,000 we've had an open marriage for our the entire length of our 118 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,160 marriage, which I'll be upfront has been 37 years. 119 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,920 And so we've had a journey that has brought us and, and taken us 120 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,520 through different situations in that. 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,360 So my perspective of, of cuckold, becoming a cuckold was 122 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,240 really an evolution over time, going through different 123 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,760 situations and whatnot. And it was not a situation where 124 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,520 I saw something online because online didn't really exist a lot 125 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,200 back then. But but it was a, you know, it 126 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,720 was a situation when we were just evolving, experiencing 127 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,240 different things, understanding each other's sexual dynamic 128 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,880 because it was becoming apparent that there was two dynamics 129 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:41,080 involved as one and the, you know, and finally someone asked 130 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,080 us if we are a cuckold. We had no idea what exactly what 131 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,840 the word meant or. And so we looked it up and we 132 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,600 realized that, yeah, we've been doing this for years now. 133 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:58,840 Interestingly, the one one thing that does stand out in the kind 134 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,480 of the cuckolding, we have gone back and kind of revisited some 135 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,440 some of those experiences that led us up. 136 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,440 And it appears probably unbeknownst to us at that time 137 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,640 that my first cuckold experience really did not involve Anne with 138 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,240 another man. It involved Anne with another 139 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,480 woman and that's when the emotions really became apparent 140 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,560 that you start feeling this angst and and but at the same 141 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,000 time you have a certain thrill that's, you know, you kind of a 142 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,200 coming up too. And so she went through a two 143 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,440 year relationship with another woman that was very serious. 144 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,400 It was a beautiful relationship and because the other one was a 145 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,720 lesbian, there was no sex to be. But it was me standing there and 146 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,720 seeing them, you know, in this sexual and romantic 147 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,480 relationship. But that eventually ended and we 148 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,280 continued it on our journey. And so it's you kind of have to 149 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,600 revisit some of the past to understand certain things that 150 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,080 maybe were a trigger. That's probably the biggest 151 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,600 trigger. But I, I've always enjoyed in 152 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:15,760 all those experiences seeing and with other men and having been 153 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,320 in the swing lifestyle portion and with other women, it got to 154 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:25,200 the point where I would be with another woman and but then after 155 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,800 a while I'd be going, where's Anne? 156 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,680 What she's doing? What is she doing? 157 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,720 You know, and so there's this strong connection that we have. 158 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,080 And so that kind of, you know, continued on and, and, you know, 159 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,240 established this instead of couples, established a singular 160 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,240 thing that Anne could have, and that was men. 161 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,880 And along the path, you know, she was introduced to black men 162 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,880 and then it really took off. We've been strong proponents, 163 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,680 you know, vocally and through the writings in the for the last 164 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,840 nine years. And so it's been interesting. 165 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,680 You know, at that time, we didn't, we thought we were alone 166 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,120 when we realized we were a couple couple. 167 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,160 But since then, the community has exploded and that has, you 168 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,920 know, created this comfort level of who we are and what we do. 169 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,440 Yeah. So James, our trajectories 170 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,440 weren't that far apart, even though we we first, you know, 171 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,080 fell on the floor and I and I had this great, you know, life 172 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,120 changing experience. Our trajectory actually followed 173 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,880 you guys that we, we played a part, we played together. 174 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,520 We were very, we were very involved in the just regular 175 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,280 swinging lifestyle and went to a lot of swinging parties. 176 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,800 But I learned more about myself and, and had a very similar 177 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,360 experience to yours that we would go to a swinging party and 178 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,160 my pleasure was watching my wife, you know, and these other 179 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,120 girls would be annoying me like, hey, you want to go play? 180 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,880 And I'm like, leave me alone. Yeah, there. 181 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,840 There's some truth there. Yeah, so I but, but just like 182 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,560 you, I had never heard of a cuckold back then and I really 183 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:17,080 didn't know how to label, you know, what it was that I liked. 184 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,120 And now that I know how to label it, I'm fighting the label as 185 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,000 hard as I can. And so meaning that the label is 186 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,880 so indistinctive anymore that we don't know what it means. 187 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,680 So. Yeah, it's a, it's a big 188 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,920 umbrella of different things that can be so, yeah. 189 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,600 So yeah, we, you know, it's, it's great that we have a 190 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:37,680 community now. Yeah. 191 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:40,280 And that's a great thing. But it but I I think that's 192 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,320 really interesting that both you and I kind of wandered through 193 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,520 swinger land on our way here You. 194 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Know. Yes, and wander is a good word, 195 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,640 yeah. Kind of came to the same 196 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,520 conclusion about it too. That's probably not that 197 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,960 unusual. I I would think that I think 198 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:03,040 there's a lot of couples that have evolved from swinging into 199 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,320 cooking and you know, everybody starts somewhere. 200 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,960 So I appreciate you guys sharing that that beginning story 201 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,440 because I think a lot of people will be able to relate to that. 202 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,600 But let's get to the really big one. 203 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,720 What the heck do you get out of it? 204 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,960 What do you, if you can tell us in your own words? 205 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,760 What is it about this dynamic that just floats your boat? 206 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,160 Boy, that's a, you know, that's a question that I think really 207 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,480 comes back to the, the, the relationship that Anne and I 208 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:47,640 have the strength that that we have the the ability to, you 209 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,600 know, communicates very well. And so I think it's a situation 210 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:57,280 where because of how we evolved in our sexual dynamic over a 211 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,160 long period of time, you kind of generate a lot of different 212 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,000 things about your own sexual identity. 213 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:13,400 And my identity revolves around the aspect of not because as 214 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,520 with other men, the denial and denial can be a big umbrella for 215 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,000 a lot of different ways to achieve it. 216 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:29,520 But from denial, I get a a masochistic type of emotions set 217 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,640 of emotions dealing between angst of if you're going to go 218 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:39,520 over the Cliff or the joy of this is just so awesome and you 219 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:46,080 know you want it to continue on. And at this point, a lot of that 220 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,280 angst has because I'm so comfortable with it. 221 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,480 The angst is not as big of an issue as just the pure joy that 222 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,520 I get to see Anne enjoy. This past weekend we went to 223 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,320 Splash. She had a fantastic time. 224 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,960 I had a fantastic time. I wasn't always in the room. 225 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,280 That's that's kind of how I do things. 226 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:15,800 It increases that denial aspect. And So what do I get from it? 227 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:21,240 I get the fact that we are so goddamn close that you know, 228 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,960 there can't be any other thing but that, you know that that 229 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,120 strong emotion that's, you know, the her afterglow and Sharon in 230 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,680 it. And so, you know, that's, I'm 231 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,960 not sure that is a very precise answer, but it, it is a 232 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,080 difficult question to answer because I think each person is, 233 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,200 is different in their, their relationship. 234 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,480 And but I think the commonality is always that there's this, 235 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,480 this incredible bond between the two people and their ability to 236 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,600 communicate, their ability to trust their, you know, their 237 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,920 ability to share, their ability to champion each other. 238 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,880 Thank you for that. That was beautiful. 239 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,320 Actually, I think that's one thing that a lot of people don't 240 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,960 believe too. They don't believe that this 241 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,760 type of consensual non monogamy agreement can bring that kind of 242 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,040 closeness. It seems counterintuitive to 243 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,080 people that don't know, so thank you for that explanation. 244 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Right. Richard, what is it for you? 245 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Right. Well, I think, you know, it's 246 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,480 gone through a lot of phases in my life and I've moved, you 247 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,080 know, from like a a lot of men in particular are first drawn to 248 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,520 the real pruient, you know, side of it and the sexuality and, and 249 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,240 I certainly have always enjoyed seeing very sexual women. 250 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,840 You know, it's, it's always been something that really appeals to 251 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,320 me. But I, I also don't think that 252 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,800 you can really have a long term successful cuckolding 253 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,560 relationship just based on prurience. 254 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,000 You know, I think there's a spiritual aspect to it that I 255 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,240 think particularly I hear it coming from a lot of Cox and and 256 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,600 I think James, without putting words in your mouth, I hear when 257 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,000 you know, I've got a Catholic background in and was an ex 258 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,880 seminarian and these these thoughts that I hear coming from 259 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,720 you, I think all could be reframed very religiously and 260 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,080 and put inside and and please don't blame me for being a 261 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,280 Catholic. I'm reformed. 262 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,840 I'm out of that, but I hear these thoughts. 263 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,040 That's all right. So. 264 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,920 He's married. There's one in the family too. 265 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:37,240 He's. Married. 266 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,440 He's married. God help us all. 267 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,240 But I hear these I hear these things about like self 268 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,040 masochism. And this is Janus. 269 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,880 Do you know this comes from a rich Catholic tradition of of 270 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,920 self denial. And you know, you can't, you 271 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,640 can't understand Catholicism without understanding fasting 272 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:05,200 and without understanding not, not giving in to the things that 273 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,319 you want to do. It's considered weakness. 274 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,760 And in fact, I think this is something that that Crystal and 275 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,119 I have agreed on many times is that it takes a certain strength 276 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:22,200 to be a, to be a cuckold. And, and we and yeah, and we, 277 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,280 and we find that through our sacrifice. 278 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:30,760 And and this, this is very much, very much Sacramento insight of 279 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,800 Catholicism. And then moving on to the other 280 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,600 thing you talked about, which was so great is how it combined 281 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,960 you as a couple. You know, that that you have to 282 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,480 be able to communicate on such a deep level and be able to share 283 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,160 thoughts so intimately that it just transcends you out of a lot 284 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,880 of couples that, you know, they can't, they can't even 285 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,480 communicate enough to decide who's going to do the dishes. 286 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,040 And we're talking about who's going to do my wife, you know? 287 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,680 All right. And. 288 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Yeah, the dish, the dishes is easy like the. 289 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,200 Yeah, I got that. Yeah, but how much harder is the 290 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,800 conversation? When we first started, we, we 291 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,200 were like, OK, you can go fuck guys, but I don't want you to 292 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,800 like them. And then that, that and this 293 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,200 happiness that I get now that, oh, here's a guy that she really 294 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,280 likes. And look at how, look at how 295 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,800 they make music together, you know, and I get happiness from 296 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,320 her happiness. And surely I, I think any good, 297 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,760 you know, Christian person would, would also consider that 298 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,240 a value, you know, the fact that you can gain happiness through 299 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,560 other people's happiness, which is actually the opposite of 300 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:55,920 envy, you know, and, and, and in my very uninformed view, the 301 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,080 whole idea of, of coveting is, you know, this is the opposite 302 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,040 of coveting. This is allowing sharing and, 303 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,480 and in a way, the ultimate in empathy. 304 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,280 And so that's sort of so that's what attracts it me to it today, 305 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,720 although I certainly didn't. Start it. 306 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,400 That's a very interesting perspective. 307 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,880 I never related to a religious aspect of it. 308 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,880 That's so I find that very interesting. 309 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,200 There are some elements of what you describe that probably are, 310 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,840 are true. I, I, I am not a religious 311 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:35,360 person per SE, except of faith. And so I don't, you know, try to 312 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,160 define my life in that respect. But there are some things of 313 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,000 faith that tell me, you know, this is, you know, there's a 314 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,240 certain part of what, who we are and how we will be that we have 315 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,360 no control over. And, you know, so I, I, it, it 316 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:57,400 is interesting. I, I, I, one of our first things 317 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,160 that we decided early on when we got into this whole thing, I 318 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,480 mean, going back years is we never had rules, we never had 319 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,720 boundaries. We were always we as we matched 320 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,880 very well in the sense as as people, we always. 321 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,640 Are open to trying things and doing things. 322 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,600 I am the type of person being half German, I can be a little 323 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,240 more disciplined in that. And you know, I'm very 324 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,600 passionate about when we first met about sex. 325 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,400 And I've communicated that to Anne right away and she didn't 326 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,320 have a problem with it. As things continued, I might 327 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,320 come up with an idea and throw it out there and it's and she's 328 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,640 being the social butter. She says, yeah, let's do it. 329 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,840 And so we would do it. And so we've experienced a lot 330 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,840 of things without the rules and boundaries that allowed us to 331 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,720 get to where we are right now. But more importantly, allow us 332 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,080 as a couple to come together and be strong and be for each other. 333 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,840 And not everyone can do that. Not not everyone is comfortable 334 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:08,600 without rules and boundaries. And so that, you know, is kind 335 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,960 of an aspect that makes us a little bit different. 336 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,160 I'm, I'm sure there are others out there, but I always hear 337 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,400 people when they talk about it, you know, the rules and 338 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,080 boundaries. You made a comment about the, 339 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,640 you know, you can't have emotions. 340 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,360 I was never about you can't have emotions. 341 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,880 Actually, those emotions kind of give me that, that angst. 342 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,920 That's what I want to see. Because that's her. 343 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,880 That's what she's about. And that, you know, thrills me. 344 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,000 It gives me angst when there's a real cat connection. 345 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,600 But because we can communicate and we trust, we figure it out, 346 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,440 We have some hard conversations at times, works out great. 347 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,960 But you know, it's I don't want to in any way impede what she's 348 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,040 about. And and so probably that answers 349 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,800 the question is what do I get out of this? 350 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,240 I get out of this by letting her be her. 351 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:04,000 And that just thrills me. Crystal, didn't we touch touched 352 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,680 on spirituality in our last episode, Yeah. 353 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,360 But I think it's kind of it's such a big topic. 354 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:14,600 I think it it deserves an entire episode because it's deep and 355 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,080 profound. But let we let's definitely 356 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,560 touch on it. But I just don't think there'll 357 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,040 be a time in this one, but we'll schedule again. 358 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,120 But that that's a big topic and they just opened that, you know, 359 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,320 both of them just sort of opened up that topic. 360 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,400 So let's let's definitely go for it. 361 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,840 To me, that's what gives cuckoldine its legs. 362 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,880 I mean, there's lots of people out there that, you know, can 363 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,720 just kind of get off on the, you know, the sex side of it. 364 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,360 But I just don't think that has legs, you know, I, I think, you 365 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,880 know, you can only do that once in a while and then it's off 366 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,080 chasing another shiny object, you know? 367 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,960 Well, I think it the fact that we can speak to a spiritual 368 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,160 aspect at all, you know, that sort of separates out the the 369 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,680 looky loos or the the people just looking for an experience 370 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,480 from the people that have taken this seriously and taken it as a 371 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,600 lifestyle and allowed it to to deepen their intimacy in their 372 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,440 primary relationship. You know, it's entirely valid, 373 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,640 but I think that spiritual aspect is what separates the men 374 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,440 from the boys or however you say that. 375 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,920 I think it's, I think it's, I think it's a big deal. 376 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,880 Yeah, I think there's some truth there. 377 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,720 I mean, this is such a deeply emotional type of sexual 378 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,240 relationship that I think people kind of overlook and from both 379 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,000 sides. And I think that a lot of people 380 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,880 just probably are not interested in that. 381 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,760 They're, you know, they're more towards the. 382 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,280 The how do I get my wife to fuck other men? 383 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,400 And you're answering with, well, you know, Thomas Aquinas said. 384 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,000 Go to church. I mean, Oh my goodness. 385 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,640 Well, I have a question. Do you ever feel like this is 386 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,360 unfair? Let me take that on 1st this 387 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,080 time. What a stupid question of. 388 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,960 Course it's. Unfair. 389 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,640 Does anybody go to a pro Dom and say OK, this is a democracy now 390 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:37,600 you know? And obviously, no disrespect you 391 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,280 intended, Anne, I know the question was fed into us, but 392 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,120 when I first heard that question, I thought, this is the 393 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,680 most ridiculous, stupidest question I've ever heard in my 394 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,880 life, you know? So yes, the answer to your 395 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,560 question is yes, Anne. It is unfair at its best. 396 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,560 And just like, no, I, it's, it's well, my perspective is it's not 397 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560 unfair because I don't even think about, you know, fairness 398 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,360 in, in this. It's it's, you know, it's a 399 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,320 situation that you have, as I mentioned before, you have two 400 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,200 sexual dynamics ands and minds. And we and we're totally 401 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,720 connected together to create 1. And so you can't say there's an 402 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,640 unfairness on one side or the other when we each are getting 403 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,120 something from this. It's not about what she does. 404 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:30,480 I have to also do it's about what she does that gives me what 405 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,880 I can do. And so, you know, I find it, you 406 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:39,080 know, you know, people asking that question is like much like 407 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,480 you said, Richard, it's just like, are you kidding me? 408 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,880 I mean, where are you? I mean, you just want to wank 409 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,920 off here, you know, and and be done. 410 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,040 I mean, no, this is this is, you know, this is something that you 411 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:57,480 take it and it gives you so much more than to be honest than an 412 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,760 orgasm. I mean, it's, it's basically 413 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,160 edging me to, you know, a thrill in some point. 414 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,800 Well, obviously the person that asked the question doesn't 415 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,640 really understand which is helping him. 416 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,120 Right, right. And that, and so you, I guess 417 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,440 you could devolve it into a conversation about what is 418 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,600 fairness. You know, I mean, if we're all 419 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,560 getting what we want, is that fair even even though there's a 420 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,480 automatically a power imbalance, you know, of necessity. 421 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,840 And so is it, is it unfair for the Colonel to tell the private 422 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,880 to go, you know, charge down the, you know, charge, go charge 423 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,480 the machine nest or something? You know, it's, it's not even 424 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,800 really, I don't, you know, I, I think it's, it's a foreign 425 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,560 language to start describing it in terms of fairness. 426 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,720 I thought these these are a lot of the questions that come from 427 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280 my listeners typically are people who are curious and 428 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,280 they're looking for an on ramp. So they don't have the 429 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,440 experience. They, they find it hard to 430 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,520 comprehend that you actually get something out of it. 431 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,200 They don't understand the, the, you know, the notion of a 432 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,280 conversion where you actually get happiness from someone 433 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,520 else's happiness. You know, so it's, it's really 434 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,320 the, the, the question is designed for those people 435 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:18,120 looking for is this right for me is, you know, can I understand 436 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,560 this at a deeper level so that, you know, I would have some 437 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,920 basis to, to try and see if, and see if it would be a fit for me 438 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,200 and my partner. The only way you're going to 439 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,160 know is you're going to have to go out there and you're going to 440 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,360 have to experience sex in a sexual situation with your 441 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,560 partner and understand what that creates and, and, and 442 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,600 understand, you know, from that you're going to either, you 443 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,800 know, do this or that. And whatever you choose to do, 444 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,120 hopefully you've communicated about it and said, Hey, this is 445 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,720 where we want to, we should go. Whether it's cuckolder or not, 446 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,320 it's not important is in my mind, it's about just 447 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,560 experiencing something and making from that experience, you 448 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:04,360 know, an evolution of, you know, this is what you you're both 449 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:08,360 interested in. And so, you know, I just it's it 450 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:14,400 is it, it is a sexual dynamic. I mean, that's the bottom line. 451 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,160 And so you have to experience sex with your partner in a 452 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,840 manner that you know, different ways which might create, you 453 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,680 know, your partner being, you know, monogamous and you're the 454 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,400 other partner, not monogamous and decide, you know, if that's 455 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,120 it, I mean, you can't, there's only so much where you can go in 456 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:38,840 terms of thinking about it. And God almighty cuckolds really 457 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,600 think about it. Yeah, and. 458 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,680 And think about it and overthink about it. 459 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,560 And so, but the reality is, is you've got to experience it. 460 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,360 And so you just have to, you know, go out there and try to 461 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,520 figure out a way how you can do it and ease into it. 462 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:59,040 If if my recommendation be to ease into it and, you know, kind 463 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,280 of make some decisions or you know, have some revelations 464 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,880 about we know what it brings to you so. 465 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,280 Thank you. Thank you guys for answering 466 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,080 that. It just brought another question 467 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,320 to my mind. I'm going to ask you guys 468 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,960 because Anne and I have gotten this question probably 10,000 469 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,640 times. What do you, what do you as men 470 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,200 say to the other men who are trying to get their wives or 471 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,360 manipulate their wives into doing this for them? 472 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:33,560 How would you advise them? Oh yeah, the the question that 473 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,920 every person that wants to be in it wants to have an answer, a 474 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,160 clear answer on how to do it a a blueprint. 475 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:42,920 Who should go first? Stuart Bishard. 476 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,960 Well, I, I, you know, I just took it. 477 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:51,600 I mean, you know, I, I think to answer that question, you have 478 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,360 to kind of understand the other person first that's asking you 479 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,120 that and where they are, what, what is their situation in, you 480 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,240 know, so that you can kind of answer in a, a way that they can 481 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800 understand for where, where they are. 482 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,320 That's a kind of a vague answer, But I'm, I'm the type of person 483 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,160 that's sensitive to other people and trying to understand them 484 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:21,880 when they ask a question like that, There is no easy way to, 485 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,480 you know, kind of say this is the right thing to do or the 486 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,680 wrong thing to do. I first of all, my first 487 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,040 question back to them would be what's your relationship? 488 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,520 How strong is it? Do you have trust? 489 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,640 Can you communicate? Do you champion each other? 490 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,880 You know, those things have to be in place. 491 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,080 They have to be in place even in real life outside of a sexual 492 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,000 dynamic. And if there's any weakness in 493 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,760 there, I would say you'd probably need to, you know, 494 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,920 strengthen, strengthen it a little bit and, you know, go out 495 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,400 there and experience a little bit of a sexual experience, But 496 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:05,800 without those bedrock, you know, elements, you're probably going 497 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,200 to fail. And I, you know, I, no one wants 498 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,320 to fail at anything. I don't want anyone to fail at 499 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,440 anything. But I want, you know, them to 500 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,560 understand a certain reality of expectation. 501 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,840 If you don't take the time to, you know, kind of work on your 502 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,480 relationship and a lot of other ways to to have it strong 503 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,640 because you will be faced with some, you know, hard, you know, 504 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,200 emotions at times in a cuckold dynamic. 505 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,600 And if you don't work on those things, it will fail. 506 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:43,120 And so, you know, my basic answer is trying to understand 507 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,840 then where the relationship is, how strong it is and you know, 508 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,160 and emphasize that strength. And then, you know, probably, 509 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160 you know, just say, hey, you know, it sounds like you if it's 510 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,760 there, you just need to now make a decision if the two of you 511 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,360 want to go out there and have a sexual experience of some sort 512 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:06,560 to kind of test it. But you know, it's, it's typical 513 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,800 cuckold. I overthink it sometimes too. 514 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:14,120 So. Yeah, I think James, I agree 515 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,000 100% with you. What I see, you know, like on 516 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,040 the Reddit forums and some of the other ones is, you know, how 517 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,440 do I trick my wife into this or, or Crystal needs the word 518 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,280 manipulate my wife into this. And when I see those questions, 519 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,720 it instantly in my mind says you're not ready for this. 520 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,520 You know, your relationship's not ready for it and you are not 521 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,480 ready for it. Just by the fact that you are 522 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,840 willing to manipulate your wife in order to get your sexual 523 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,360 jollies right there has answered the question to me. 524 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,400 You know, we, there's there's no reason to to, to talk about, you 525 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,680 know, a. 100%. You know, no, we saw I had quite 526 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,440 a few examples of that in the whole swinging thing, like it 527 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,120 was such a. You can tell when it's going to 528 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,480 crash and burn pretty quickly. Oh yeah, we've all seen it, 529 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:09,760 Yeah. Absolutely. 530 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000 You're right, Anne, the swinging world has the very same thing. 531 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,760 Usually husbands that have two active an imagination dragging 532 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,960 their wives into an experience that their relationship isn't 533 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,520 ready for, right? Right. 534 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,960 And then more often than not, it's the husband that has the, I 535 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,760 don't know if it's a guilt attack or what, but he's the one 536 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,040 that the next morning wakes up with this sexual hangover and 537 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,360 guilt and shame and Oh my God, what did this whore do, you 538 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,520 know? And. 539 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,440 The beast is out of the closet. Yeah, right. 540 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,680 Yeah, his aunt says. Be careful what you want. 541 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,480 Be careful what you wish for. I mean like it's. 542 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. These women get turned loose and 543 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,640 they, you know, they enjoy it and then all the sudden, you 544 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,160 know, the husband feels. Anyway, it's just craziness. 545 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,120 If you know if you really want to have a great cuckled 546 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,159 relationship, start with relationship and then get to 547 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:09,480 cuckle down the. Rd. 548 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,880 One of the things we wanted to cover was how do you balance 549 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,440 your, your life? And I know that we had other 550 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,639 conversation that'll be added out so we probably have a little 551 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,520 more time. But how do you, how do you 552 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:32,360 balance being a cuckold? And you know, from your real 553 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,280 life to your cuckold life, even though they're very, they're 554 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,080 blended. How do you balance the two? 555 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,840 Yeah, for us, it's very difficult. 556 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,960 I would, I, I, I, I don't. Would you agree? 557 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,199 It's probably our most difficult challenge. 558 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:56,040 Well, from my perspective, the difficulty factor is that I so 559 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:01,720 rarely have a lover that we're not in the arena very much. 560 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,080 I mean that's that is the difficulty factor. 561 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:11,560 So it's kind of a non issue for us only because we lack 562 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,600 opportunity when there when there is someone and usually 563 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,760 they're, you know, shorter term. So it, you know, we really 564 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,120 haven't had a long term connection that we would have to 565 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:30,120 actually, you know, deal with work, you know, cut life issues 566 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,480 that could come in the future. But so far we just, you know, 567 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,480 we, we just haven't had the longer term experience to be 568 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,240 forced to pick and choose stuff. So I interpreted the question a 569 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:48,160 little bit differently and, and more about how do I move into 570 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,800 submission and more of a femdom relationship. 571 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:57,120 So not very specifically cuckolding, but more the femdom, 572 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,480 you know, submissive role-playing that goes on in a 573 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,280 lot of cuckold relationships and, and ideally in our cuckold 574 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,600 relationship. And it's I, I just have trouble 575 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,760 shifting gears sometimes, you know, I, I do tend to be a kind 576 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,200 of aggressive alpha dude. And then it's hard for me to 577 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,120 change that gear. And it's very difficult for 578 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:26,160 Crystal because, you know, we're, we're both amped up and, 579 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,760 and then all the sudden to try to flip this over to, to this 580 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,640 power inequality role-playing, it's, it's just very difficult, 581 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,760 I think for both of us to change our mindsets on a dime, you 582 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,280 know? Well, I think because of our 583 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,400 dynamic, we don't have this, these extremes. 584 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:50,080 It's more constant. There's a lot of subtleties and 585 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,840 teasing and things that happen regardless if I, you know, have 586 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,040 a date or not. And we, you know, like you, I 587 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,120 don't, you know, splash, I made-up for a year, you know, 588 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,400 so. Or at least too. 589 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,520 Much too much. Well, it was, it was better than 590 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,760 I thought. We can maybe talk off air and we 591 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:17,880 can share some funny things, but I feel like we don't, you know, 592 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,000 do we have it in the forefront of our mind all the time? 593 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,840 No. You know, family things are 594 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,640 happening, you know, but it never goes away. 595 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:34,320 So I think because we don't have this extreme power shift, if you 596 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,280 will, no or roll shift. Yeah, there's we, I think to put 597 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,440 it pretty simply, we're, we're a chill couple. 598 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,200 And so I think that we're very comfortable. 599 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,800 Yes, we have real life. Today was, you know, an active 600 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,640 day of things. But here we are now. 601 00:37:54,080 --> 00:38:03,040 And I think the because we're both chill, we don't seem to be 602 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:10,320 affected by, like Anne said, the extremes that could happen. 603 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,800 I think that we flow very easily between what we have to do and 604 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,840 who we are and a sexual dynamic. We're I feel very strong as a 605 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,200 person, as a cuckold and also outside the life in life. 606 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,040 And, and could, you know, she could be, you know, getting 607 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,320 ready to, you know, either vet someone in the back seat or, or 608 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,880 getting together with someone. And I can be easily, you know, 609 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,840 still doing what I need to do relative to things that are not 610 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,520 maybe as connected to what she's going to do. 611 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:53,440 But when she comes back, it's there and we connect and you 612 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,320 know, she tells me about it and it's, you know, it's great. 613 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,880 You know, I think that it's, you know, something that, you know, 614 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:08,520 you're just so comfortable about it that we don't have to think 615 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,480 hard about it, I guess is the best way to say it. 616 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,480 You know, we just have to we just it just naturally will, you 617 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:20,880 know, ease into a conversation at times for us if we just want 618 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,320 to you want to talk about some things, bring me up to speed of 619 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,240 what you're doing or you know, the in the your dates or 620 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:31,320 whatever, or you know, just, you know, coming out of it, you 621 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,640 know, coming out. It sounds boring, but. 622 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,000 It's just like or you come out of Flash. 623 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,560 What I'd like to ask, I would like to ask you guys if you can 624 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,440 lend us some chill pill because obviously we were both ramped up 625 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:50,320 to about 900 miles an hour all the time and it's a problem. 626 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,360 It's a problem. Yeah. 627 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,240 Going back to the spiritual aspect of it though, one of the 628 00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:01,160 things that I hope to benefit from a cuckold relationship is 629 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,320 to chill and to and to learn the grace of humility. 630 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,480 For example, you know, speaking to a a Catholic, you would 631 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,720 understand that that you know, there, there is this there. 632 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,320 I think that there is a certain subtle grace in being able to 633 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,760 step down and and chill out and control your emotions. 634 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,960 And you know more than control your emotions to master your 635 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,520 emotions. Right, that's a good. 636 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,400 You know, it's, it's, you know, it's an interesting, you know, 637 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,800 situation where, you know, like splash, it's an event that 638 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:37,680 brings a lot of black men to the table, so to speak. 639 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,960 And seeing Anne is, you know, in the candy store, so to speak. 640 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,680 That's, that's fantastic. I, you know, step aside and 641 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,800 that's what I'd like to do. That's how I experience it best, 642 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,920 as much as possible. Coming back. 643 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,880 You, you got you. You know, we have been gone for 644 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,280 a week, not only because of Splash, but other things. 645 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,600 And you suddenly realize you got to come back to the real world. 646 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:07,720 Well, you, we don't feel like we're abandoning anything. 647 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,040 We're just feeling OK, we need to do this, this and that. 648 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,120 But then, you know, later on we sit down for dinner or have a 649 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,800 drink and we will start talking about Splash, you know, and it's 650 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:22,240 just like we ebb and flow based upon what, you know, how our 651 00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:24,360 days going, how the things that we have to do. 652 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,640 But we always try to make sure that that conversation does 653 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,200 include our sexual dynamic at times because there's we don't. 654 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,040 We're just that's who we are. Yeah, but it's. 655 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,320 Yeah, but it's not 24/7. No, it's not 24/7. 656 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,640 There's no there's no schedule or regularity. 657 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,640 Right. Yeah, there's, you know, I just 658 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,800 like I said, Evans. Yeah, OK. 659 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,000 I want to be Anne and James when I grow up. 660 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:55,080 Well, I actually think I I at least I would rate myself as 661 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,520 being a pretty good, you know, in quote marks cock when we're 662 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,480 in the dynamic, when we're in the moment that, you know, 663 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,960 you're with somebody, you know, it's that's not when we have our 664 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:13,280 trouble. And I say this, you guys know I 665 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,160 love her absolutely dearly. You know, the the wheels aren't 666 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,400 coming off of this at all. And, and I think it's good that 667 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,400 we can actually be honest and frank about, you know, all. 668 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,520 Every moment isn't special. Right. 669 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,280 That's for sure. Yeah, so. 670 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,320 And and so don't don't take this wrong like the wheels are coming 671 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,280 off the bus because they're not. And I and I'm just madly in love 672 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,160 with this woman. But we do sometimes when there's 673 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,360 not other people around. We can get gritty. 674 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,080 Yeah, we can get gritty. Yeah. 675 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,440 And and because both of us wants to be in charge. 676 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,760 Yeah. We can just be go ahead. 677 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,480 I just haven't beat him enough to get him to figure this thing 678 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,240 out yet, so I don't know. What were you going to say, 679 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:04,280 Anne? Oh, I mean, I we definitely can 680 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:09,960 both be a little bitchy towards one another and you know, I want 681 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:17,680 more and he, you know, my angst of not having any lover, you 682 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,960 know, rubs off on him. You know, it kind of goes full 683 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:20,960 circle. You know we're. 684 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,800 Yeah, but we're there to champion for each other, so you 685 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,680 know it's not. Not always rosy, but most you 686 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,320 would try to make. So I I do remember the question 687 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,400 from the the cuckold cocked my life. 688 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,280 They asked us if we are an FLR and. 689 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,280 You broke up right there. Say that again. 690 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:50,360 They asked us if we were an FLR couple and we are not in the 691 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:56,480 true sense of what most people say is always one person in that 692 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,840 role. We we are in the sense of our 693 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:05,280 sexual dynamic. But as a couple in life, we have 694 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,960 strengths in different ways that it's important that we work as a 695 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,680 team. And so that is something that 696 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:22,120 some people kind of confuse the FLR as being, you know, pretty 697 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,200 much a dominant thing when it doesn't really have to. 698 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,320 You can enjoy it. But you sometimes, you know, 699 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,640 like us, there are other things that I just I'm better AT and 700 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,200 there's some things that she's better AT. 701 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,000 And we have a family. And so these things, you know, 702 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,800 require teamwork. So what about you guys? 703 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:46,000 Do you have a definition defined roles crystal? 704 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,600 Are you always the one in charge? 705 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,840 No, I just get aggravated at him because, you know, we have power 706 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,600 struggle. That's exactly what we have. 707 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,920 You know, we're all we're both fighting for the top rung or the 708 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,400 last say or something like this. And you know, I think it's a bad 709 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,440 habit that we've gotten into. But no, we don't we're not in 710 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,000 any any kind of dynamic 24/7. It's for us, it's not compatible 711 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000 with day-to-day life. We have also family. 712 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,320 We have other things going on and you know, and when we're 713 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,200 with other people, this never comes up. 714 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,760 But when we have too much time with just us. 715 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,080 You know. We'll both be fighting for the 716 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,000 last word in the conversation. And I don't know, but yeah, we, 717 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,160 we don't. We're not in anything 24/7. 718 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,480 Yeah. If I can fight you for the last 719 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,480 word here. Yeah, actually, here we go. 720 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,360 See I rest my case. Actually, what I was going to 721 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,280 say is we're, when we're in a play dynamic, I think we do 722 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,480 enjoy FLR, you know, I right. Is that fair? 723 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,040 Yeah, yeah. But, but in day-to-day, no, 724 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,000 there's definitely things that she's better AT and she usually 725 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,560 does and other things I'm better at and I usually do. 726 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,400 And then there's a little bit of overlap in some places, and 727 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,880 those are the. And then there's a fight, Fight 728 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,200 Club. But but, but when we're in the 729 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,240 dynamic, I enjoy FLR. I think it's really fun. 730 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,640 Yeah, and he goes really deep too. 731 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,400 So that's the that's the time where he can really, he's really 732 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,760 fun to, he likes verbal humiliation. 733 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,280 He likes a little impact. I mean, I really can just sort 734 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,280 of let it fly and hopefully get all my angst out there so that 735 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,840 it doesn't come out when we're just like having dinner or 736 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,320 something like that. Right, ruining at a nice 737 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,720 restaurant. Yeah, it's not like we're having 738 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,560 dinner, but actually one of the things that we've enjoyed doing 739 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,000 a couple of times when it, when we have guests over is, you 740 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,240 know, I, I just go into this total service role where I'm 741 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,760 cook and Butler and serve them dinner and, you know, and, and 742 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,280 so, yeah, it's and, you know, it's pure service. 743 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,880 I mean, it's, you know, and I and I get a kick out of it. 744 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,600 Yeah, and it's and it's super fun. 745 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,400 So we don't have any trouble at all in the dynamic. 746 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,840 It's just we can get into power struggle outside of that. 747 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:12,720 I, I love that when you, we, we haven't had too many. 748 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,000 I've had, I've entertained him in here, but very few have 749 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,840 actually like one in particular had a meal here and it was 750 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,880 pretty much on the fly. But James served us and you 751 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,840 know, he served us drinks and you know, he's been very, very 752 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,040 good about that. But I love that because I'm 753 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,280 usually the one who does all that in normal day-to-day. 754 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,720 Except. For the clean up. 755 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,400 Yeah, I'd like to say we share, but I don't know, maybe Crystal 756 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,080 would disagree. But but it's fun. 757 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,480 I mean, if you guys ever get the house alone to where you feel 758 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,480 safe and you can do something. And I certainly think it's a lot 759 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,040 of fun to just, you know, bring in, make a really nice dinner 760 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,400 and serve it several courses and pour the wine and, you know, all 761 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,680 the all. The stuff you know, Yeah. 762 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,720 And that's why, you know, and I, I definitely have a distinct 763 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,560 preference for people that I have a good relationship with 764 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,600 that can spend a weekend, not just a hit and run. 765 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,960 That's not really my style. And I don't do that really very 766 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,040 much. But you know, people that I have 767 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,160 a a friendship with and a relationship, we like to have 768 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,880 them in for the weekend so we can really just indulge in the 769 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:30,840 whole thing, both of us. That's interesting because we 770 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:36,480 gravitate towards the hotel. I mean, you can, you can make a 771 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,120 comment to this, but the fact that, you know, that we're so 772 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,640 but we both work out of the house. 773 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,840 We're here together most of the time. 774 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,480 And so there's just like we want to get out of here. 775 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,320 And so Anne has, you know, expressed a lot of times and and 776 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,640 she's had, you know, she with Anthony. 777 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,760 You've, you know, known for years he would come over. 778 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,640 But at some point it's just like, it would be great if we 779 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,840 can experience a different vocation. 780 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,360 Yeah. But but I but on yeah, I think 781 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:10,320 experience hotels are fun, but I also, we haven't had that deep 782 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,680 of our relationship, you know, on a consistent basis where you 783 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,960 could just have someone come over for dinner and stay the 784 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,000 night. And to me, that would be ideal. 785 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,640 There's plenty of places for you to sleep. 786 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,120 We already have that all worked out if we were to have that. 787 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,040 But you. Know but I think once in a while 788 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:33,160 a hotel's fun but I also like the idea of, you know, having 789 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,320 someone over for dinner and like just experiencing life with them 790 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,560 besides just sex, you know there's more to. 791 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:45,520 It yeah, that's that's by far our preferred what way to play, 792 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,600 I mean. Yeah, that's, you know, and 793 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,680 that's really been my ammo since forever. 794 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:58,080 I, I have to have connection and, and I really appreciate men 795 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,600 that have big brains and I want to have a, at least a 796 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,400 friendship. I'm not really interested in 797 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,240 sleeping with people if it isn't somebody I would want to be 798 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:09,560 friends with. So, so my field, although we 799 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,560 don't have very many black men here where we live anyway, that 800 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,240 narrows my field even more because not everybody's willing 801 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:21,800 to invest the time in being friends and getting to know each 802 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,160 other and, you know, spending a little bit more time. 803 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,280 So, so we have long, long, long dry spells. 804 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,440 So this real life thing has to be a real thing because most of 805 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,920 ours is real life. And then like you'd mentioned 806 00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:41,160 about sleeping in the other room, that's typically our thing 807 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,920 too, is we might all go to bed to well, actually, the way it 808 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,120 usually works out as I'm doing the dishes, Crystal and her 809 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,120 friend go upstairs to bed and then I'll join them, you know, 810 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,320 like 1520 minutes later or something. 811 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,040 And we'll all play for a little while. 812 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,760 But then I go to the spare bedroom for the night and 813 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,840 she'll, she'll sleep alone with him for the evening. 814 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,480 That's kind of the thing that we do now, you know. 815 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,320 Yeah, and it's and that we both like that. 816 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,680 So three people in a bed is just nobody gets any sleep, you know? 817 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,600 No, I I think that sounds. Great. 818 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:20,040 Yeah, Super fun. Well, I so much thank all of you 819 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,680 for being willing to, you know, open your hearts and your 820 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,720 stories because I think a lot of people will benefit from this. 821 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,720 And I just appreciate your willingness to rearrange your 822 00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:35,120 schedule to be here today. I think we should do it again 823 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,400 because I think there's a lot more we could talk about, but 824 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,440 but we'll talk about that later. But anyway, for now, thank you 825 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,600 Ann and James and Bitchard. It really was a fun conversation 826 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,520 and I hope it benefits our listeners a great deal. 827 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,840 We're just like real humans out here in suburbia, like everybody 828 00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,680 else. It was a little secret. 829 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,480 It it was fun and I appreciate you and including us so. 830 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,560 Yeah, we really enjoyed. It Yeah, Thank you so much. 831 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,960 All right, guys, signing off.