Welcome back to a better world. This is your host Mitchell, J
Raven and we're very glad that you are joining us again today.
We're going to have another very, very interesting show.
We have the honor and the privilege of having bug of and
us on with us. But Landis is known in his own,
right? And is also very well known as a
result of his introducing. Richard Alpert, the psychologist
from Harvard, at the time, to his Guru, which led Richard
upper to change of name, change of heart, and a change of soul
and was known as Baba. Ram, Dass from Be here now Fame
and much Fame even thereafter. So we were going to be speaking
with bhagwan Das and we're also going to be asking him to do
some chanting with us which he does so beautifully.
And in fact I had a chance to be with him yesterday in a workshop
and he totally set the room on fire.
And so it was based on that that we've really wanted him to come
and be on our show. So on that note, welcome, thank
you so much. Thank you.
Absolutely. So first of all, if you would
just give us a little history if you could of how it is.
That you your life went and flowed into this direction, then
any number of other directions that it might have floated into
In other words, you didn't become a stockbroker, right?
You didn't become any number of other things that the world has
to offer. Well, I tried a lot of different
things you did. Yes, I did a lot of different
things. Yes, I was like why I sold
Insurance really? Yes, I was in insurance agent.
You know? It's funny to I'm just
interrupting you for a moment chögyam.
Trungpa rinpoche teacher said that the next Sia was going to
most likely be an insurance agent from New Jersey.
Ha ha. Are you from New Jersey?
No, probably gonna be. Oh well you got half of it.
All right. Yeah.
So you did that for a while. Yeah, yes.
So cars sold Encyclopedia Britannica and did paralegal
work and was a Headhunter. So lots of sales now, your soul
Hunter, I'm a solo. So you did lots of things.
Like that. But yes, obviously you
experience them as empty as not. Well, I didn't, I gave it all, I
gave it my all, but there seemed to be a different part for me to
play in the drama. Well, if you are, what was the
way in which you came to know that Well, I came to know it
because there didn't feel to be. It didn't really feel that I
didn't really feel that I was being myself when I was doing
those things. And I always had the feeling
that I really didn't fit in and that everybody knew that I
really wasn't one of them. I had that feeling mmm-hmm, but
they do that thing on the outside.
I was on the outside of their world and that wasn't really
comfortable for me. So it was the wrong part in the
play for me to play and it's important that we find what it
is that we are supposed to be in this drama of life.
Like it's like an actor picking up a mask, we find our masks and
our part. And then we play the part
because this is the Drama that we create with our own desires
and we get what we want and that seems to be the way it works.
So how is it that you came to this particular mask and this
particular role? Well I kind of stumbled upon it.
You just tell us a little bit about yes I started out as just
a growing up in Southern California in Laguna Beach and
spending a lot of time surfing and I worked as an artist in
high school and did a lot of art photography and wrote a lot of
poetry and started playing folk music and was listening to Bob
Dylan. And John bias in those days and
reading existentialism. And what happened was I wanted
to start traveling to Europe and I left America as soon as I got
out of high school. And coincidentally, it was right
after it was a week after Kennedy was shot.
No, I left. So it was the, the energy that
was released. With that bullet also propelled
me out of this country and into a spiritual quest for a deeper
meaning of life because I didn't really see any value in what I
experienced around me at the time in America.
So, but what is it? That brought you specifically
into the Indian way? Well, I was in Greece and in
1964. When I asked, yeah, actually to
tell you that. Yeah, so not to go someone too
much right history? As much as what happened inside
you. Yeah, inside eternally.
Well, how'd you make a shift internally when I was in Greece?
I had an experience of what would happen when I die.
And I had, I was reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead at the
time and it was a full moon night and I went into this sort
of place of Terror inside and realize that I needed to find
out what was going on in my life and how to live with my life.
And that, the way to find that out was to I needed to go to
India. Because that's where the
teachers lived. Who could teach me how to live?
That's so that's what really propelled me into India was like
that inner feeling of of complete fear.
The fear of powerful motivator, right?
Really confronted death that night mmm-hmm I set up all night
meditating that night I full moon night and left for India
pretty much the next day or two and started hitchhiking and I
said I would find what I was looking for there because that's
where all the saints lift and the guru's.
And I wanted to connect with a living Saint.
Yeah. And you did and I do right and
we can't a student and have thin embodying.
Those teachings. Imagine really ever since right?
And I'm a student yeah. Yeah.
I think it's important to really find that student attitude
because that's what What keeps us?
Learning new things all the time.
It's very dangerous to to Really forget that we're always a
student that we really learn from every kind of like that
every day. The best teacher is an excellent
student. You have to be.
Yeah. Do you know everyone wants to be
the teacher and the guru but we need to have disciples, right?
People to really have that attitude of respect, right?
It's the teacher's sure. And that's what opens your heart
and your Consciousness to your. You see the teachings in life,
that everyday life gives us. This is.
So, there are many people who don't necessarily recognize
anyone teacher or Guru in a physical body, but recognize
that really situations with a guru and that perhaps each
person in the situation in which one finds oneself, Elf is a
teaching. What do you think and feel about
that? That's true.
I mean, whatever we perceive to be true is true for us.
And the Tibetans talk about truth in two ways that there's a
two-fold way, there's relative truth in absolute truth,
relative truth means that everyone's truth is true.
So if that's what you feel, that's what's true for you and
that is what works for you. And I think that that in a way
is a very high state of awareness to see living
situations as the guru and everyone is the guru.
And I think that there's a lot of kind of intellectual
understanding that comes about and is not a real integrated
understanding. It's Important to ground it in
the very cells of your body and not just head TripIt.
So it's always good. You mean the kind of
understanding that's available and Rise.
Well, what you're saying you know?
Yeah, I mean we can't always start at the top even though
we'd like to like the American way is to be the best and the
greatest and we want the ultimate teachings in the High
Country. Teaching said for laying
groundwork, right? As an example, Be right.
And so, there's a lot of spiritual disasters that take
place because there's no groundedness.
There's no, there's nothing built to hold the energy, right?
So it ends up too much and people go crazy.
They can't hold it, right? And that's, and there's a lot of
independent ship, right. And they throw it all out and
then they go off and just surrender into the the world of
Of business or whatever, and forget, any connection with
spiritual, ideals, or spiritual ideal, or spiritual way.
Was something that they did already, right?
It's really didn't work. Did it, didn't work.
So, now I'm just kidding. I did, you know, did that kind
of attitude? Very funny, right?
And now, they're getting on with real-life, right?
That's right. It's a casualty and it's a
right, that would happen, very much in this country, which is
Predicated on the instant gratification.
Right? Also it's another piece of the
puzzle. Yeah, because the spiritual path
is a very dangerous path. It's it takes tremendous courage
and It's not something that you can do in a workshop.
It's not a hobby, it's not a casual thing.
It is a shedding of layer after layer of Concepts and of our ego
and like st. Paul said, I Die daily in Christ
and that dying daily is necessary.
Yeah, that we can then have a resurrection of our own
consciousness. And we have to be willing to
lose our heads. And surrender.
And it's hard to surrender to situations.
And to life. That's a high State.
Yes, you say. So we don't want to up level it.
Unless we're really there, it's better to have a daily practice
to have a form of the Sacred, or Divine in front of us that we
then acknowledge and worship such as Jesus Christ or Mary
Mother Mary First of all because these are very much ingrained in
our Western tradition and Consciousness.
Yeah. So they have emotional import.
They have meaning mostly - to most people so a lot.
Yeah, mostly -. But it's important, you know, to
find a form that you resonate. With most certainly don't want
to find - well no you don't want to find a negative form but You
need to make peace with the form to and whether the form is the
Buddha, or the form is one of the Hindu deities or it's just
simply a candle or a glass of water.
I really recommend that one starts with worshiping a form
and in we invite the Divine to come into the form and And then
acknowledge it surrender to it and withdraw the energy then
into our own hearts. And Eminem and therefore what
happens is you start to create continuity.
Of a daily spiritual practice that even though it can be only
for a short time that it starts to unfold within you.
So what we put other things into perspective in your life so that
you're not, what would you be recommending to the audience?
And no doubt. Many of them already have
various spiritual practices and disciplines, perhaps many don't,
or many have some that they don't feel together at home with
your outlining. Some very kind of simple and
Basic possibilities that people could begin a grounded approach
with, could you just go on about that?
So maybe. Yes.
Well, we hear this and form it shaped it for themselves, right?
The form of worship that I think is the most appropriate.
And this time of the Kali Yuga, which is the time of early age
of Darkness that we're living in is too.
Because the the female form of divinity is very powerful now
and manifesting itself and I feel it's really important that
we honor the women and learn from the women and the female
energy is the mother and it's the Heart of Love.
So this is a tremendous door and a very easy pass. 24 people
because the Divine mother really manifests herself in life
situations and in all form. So it's really acknowledging an
attitude of respect paying attention to our lives and
what's going on around us and feeling the spaciousness or the
openness of wherever we're at two as being the Divine mother
because that's what she is. She's an openness space space
rather than a closed off. This is how it is type of
attitude and then you have this against that DN, it's embracing,
right? It's water, meaning.
God exact water, right? It's open.
And and I found that in my experience is that everyone
relates to that. When you're loving and open and
genuinely, they're in the moment with people, they instantly
respond back with you. And there is There's the
Fulfillment in that the way that's that is a real important
tool and she's worshipped in all women.
Well what you brought forth yesterday?
Our group through sound music created, such a resonance in the
soul that created openness and what might have otherwise been
much more of a Situation on those people Rec to be specific
and right? So the sound is something that
really kind of opened our hearts.
Well, I think it does. I think the power of music and
sound is it's very primordial and we're all very attracted to
it. So what I'm sharing and teaching
with people is that the sound of our own voice is in a way.
That is its. We're tuned into it.
Inside our bodies on a cellular level.
Like, we all love to talk. We love the sound of our own
voices. So therefore, use that
attachment. To take the sound back to the
source of sound, beyond the Mind into a Stillness, in the heart,
and it's called Nadi yoga. It's the yoga of sound.
Could you meet us through some of that?
Now, sure us here, as well as for rough.
Yes. It's wonderful to do some decent
Tony and chatting. Okay.
Yeah, unless there's something
else that you want to say. First, you can now No, I think
it the Devotion to poke the Devotion to chanting the Divine
names of the holy mother is, what mantras are.
And the mantras are like keys and you use the key to unlock
the door and they defined Mantra.
Mantra means a word that is from a Divine source that was hurt.
Heard through Shruti by rishi's and yogis and deep meditative
States. It's not a conceptual thing of
the mind it is, it is a gift that has been revealed to them
and these mantras have the, with devotion have the ability to
purify the mind. And there, which means really
take one beyond the mind and the chanting of them with your own
voice, creates a resonance in your own skull.
Like a dome and that resonance like a theater, really, right.
It's like you engage the Mantra and then you listen to it going.
So you're not really chanting it.
You're basically engaging it and getting it to start to Like a
Prayer wheel move and you inside of you and then listen to it.
So the form of naughty yoga is worshipping the Divine mother as
Out as the sound being her form. It's also a very subtle way to
worship her too but it works. Mmm.
Wonderful. But maybe when we after we do so
you can speak more. Sure about either the
relationship of the stack. Different sounds to the chakras.
Yeah. Whatever you want.
She was. No.
Shiva. She was.
She writes, shivaya. shivaya namah Shiraz.
Shiraz. That's the only time I'm ever
speechless. It's beautiful.
Could you share with us some something that we were going
through yesterday that you were leaving us through?
Which was the sounds that are associated with each chakra and
the effects that they are having on us?
I know we don't have as much time as we did yesterday, but
perhaps we could, you could do a little bit of an abbreviated
version. Sure it's impossible.
Sure. Okay.
I wanted to say a few things about this.
Mantra open the mushy vie. Om namah shivaya the meaning of
om namah shivaya needs to really be realized by yourself.
It's important that we really understand things not with our
minds, but with our being almost, we need to understand
things with our bones. We need to really get into the
morrow of our bones opening. My shivaya must reveal itself to
you but it on as a concept it means I bow down to Lord Shiva
who is Is the destroyer in the Hindu Trinity destroyer of
Illusion and he who takes away or Harlem takes away the ego
clinging of our conceptual mind. Therefore relieving us of the
burden of trying to figure it out.
Shiva is traditionally picture. And as like, Lord Buddha always
in meditation because he's the Transcendent element of the
Hindu Trinity, the Creator is Brahma and Vishnu is the
preserving energy, shiva's the destroying energy.
And he destroys the illusion that we are separate from
creation, Maya Maya and gives the ability to realize and see
that all the individual souls are Shiva.
So we see the Ottoman and everything and everyone and this
is what Namaste or namaskar means Namaste.
I worship the God within you. So this is Lord Shiva and I'm
namasivaya, it's beautiful. Good show me something to live
with yes. And it's a very powerful Mantra.
Yeah. And it works to transcend, So I
recommend it. Yes, good.
Yes. There are many different
Melodies some yes whatever. Yeah, the melody is not.
As important is, the sincerity sincerity is probably the most
important part of the spiritual path, sincerity and generosity.
It's important to give up our selfishness and to really think
about other people. Yeah.
And not to build the Empire Vigo stronger and higher.
We're at generosity and service to that.
Well yeah I mean we're we're here for a short time.
And we need to remember that. That life is impermanent and
it's very fleeting. And we need to always sees the
opportunity to do good for others.
And for ourselves there by doing for ourselves.
Because when you think of think about this, when the most happy
you are, is when you're out of yourself, we're not thinking of
yourself. You're the most happy when we're
totally absorbed in what we're doing.
We're very happy when we're thinking about ourselves, we're
worried Do I have health insurance?
What happens if I can't pay the rent, does she love me?
Does he love me? Should I have a baby?
You know, and it goes on and on and we just listening to the
chatter of our minds and it makes people crazy.
That's why there's so much mental illness in America and
the Western world's. There's not so much mental
illness in the third world, people are too busy.
Just doing living life, like, carrying water, and trying to
chop with a The chop wood, if they could find what's right.
But just doing it, you know, being in a body.
They're so busy just doing that. They don't have time to be
mentally ill. We have a lot of time to be
mentally ill. See what Leisure has like is we
indulgent mental illness. Yes, this is what Leisure has
brought us, right? The world and it becomes more
complicated and the speed makes people really.
Erotic, because they move too fast.
And yeah, it's important to slow down.
What's a relationship to that? What you're just saying?
And the feeling that we have of time accelerating right now, at
this particular juncture, Well, I think we're coming to a we're
definitely coming to like the sort of Turning Point and but
you know again it's not a phenomena outside of ourselves,
it's really a turning of our Consciousness and but it is sort
of in a way happening in a collective way around the world
because we've overburdened the planet and the Divine mother is
having a hard time supporting us.
On her holy body and we need to lessen the load for her.
How do you feel that we can do that by by being generous?
And by letting our each other to each other and by letting
ourselves have the love that we are and stop pushing the love
away from us. And start just being for a
change instead of becoming we're so busy.
Becoming we don't give ourselves time out to be to breathe.
Yeah, to psi to really feel the feeling, We're too busy doing,
right? We're living in the future.
Right instead of now, right? So find ways to do that, which
is have a daily spiritual practice, which is time out,
just sit down and, you know, be with your breath.
And the breath is a beautiful form of the Divine mother to
worship worship your own breath. As the Divine mother, someone
was saying the other night at dinner.
That one of the characteristics of God is Simplicity and just to
bring some placidia into your life, whether it's your bedroom
or your desk red table, just order it and and clean it.
And simplify Just one or two little pockets of your life, is
already bringing you closer to a sense of godliness.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's much more
simple than, than than really, it's made out to be.
Yeah, it's really, really, really simple.
Yeah, it really comes down to two.
Just really being loved because that's what we are.
Yeah, we are loved. And that's what that's really
what it is. And it's all such a funny game,
isn't it? Yeah.
It's all that, you know, one simple answer, the Maya of the
Divine mother is very powerful and it's like the spell is cast
upon us, and the spell is of our own making.
It's a funny thing because I look at things that this way
that on the one hand. First of all, what you're
saying, I believe is completely, right?
And true that we are loved and we were here to love one another
and to enjoy. Each other and to give to one
another, and when we're not focusing on self, we're
happiest, right? We're abandoning self in a way.
We're outside of self making ourselves available to someone
else and that were separate the first place is the first laughs,
you know. And so when you realize that,
then you can really be in service in a real full hearted
way. I also see Life as a very
beautiful and even Amazingly organized thing where you can
look around and see that there is incredible complexity within
the Simplicity, right? There's extraordinary complexity
when you look at nature and the whole design of Mother Earth and
God knows everywhere else for it.
But if you were standing on complex ground, looking at
complexity, you're in trouble because you're never going to
find Simplicity. But if you're standing on,
Simple ground looking at and beholding complexity, then you
can really enjoy it. You have something like a
reference. You spoke about absolute truth
before who didst and relative truth in.
This is more in the domain of absolute truth.
But after something that is truly simple at Heart from which
we can enjoy the entire play of it all.
Does that make sense? Yes.
Right. And that is what love is, which
then becomes compassion. True compassion?
Yeah, which is not just sentimental love right?
But sometimes is it's a kick in the butt.
Yeah. Different Cora.
Bop on the head? Sure.
Or a response that awakens us. That's right, that's right.
That's so commonly comes in and that's where Kali comes in and
she I want to say a few words have just the well Kali is Kali
is the form of God that I worship.
And she protects me. Kali is the black goddess.
And she is black because she takes away the Blackness that is
in our lives. She eats the negativity and
transforms it into Well into energy that we can use to to do
actually have a non dual relationship with with all it
is, so that there's not two, there's really just one she
enables us to be Fearless in our lives and have the courage to
love. This is what she is.
She's very Fierce looking to the ego and she's very scary, but
but that is because she destroys our minds and the monkey came
across. The monkey mind, the chatter
mind. And she she drinks the blood of
our ego and transforms us. Yeah.
Deeply. So that we she brings up the
shadow issues. That we need to deal with and
she is the goddess of total Beauty because it's all a
blessing if you see it that way. Yes.
And death is a great blessing. Mmm, great blessing.
Carl Jung used to say bubble on that people who killed
themselves were cheating, they were taking a glimpse into the
great mystery. Prematurely that's a great.
It was sort of like don't open your presents before Christmas.
Ha ha you'll get your turn, right?
Just so in a way it's like all of our life is prepare as to
prepare ourselves for this wonderful experience of dying.
Yeah, it's really exciting. That happened to me when I read
the Tibetan Book of the Dead two major transformation just
honking at life. From that vantage point, My
life's really never been the same since I just can't right
level of appreciation of what death really is.
But now that I know what it is now but I have some great sense
of what it's not right? Which is there no your your
conventional picturing right? Well as long as we're afraid of
death and we separated from life, we can't live because
we're we're living in that Duality and It's very painful,
right time. There's always us against them,
and it's always split. That's right.
That's right, traveling, polarity.
And it will always come in and bite you in the end.
Yeah, your Shadow. Mmm.
Right. So it's good to embrace it and
Kali. Helps she erase it now.
Yeah, in Braithwaite. Not know the way not because
when we never know, when it's going to come.
Yeah. And since she has this anyway in
the It's the she is death and no one escapes death.
And if we surrender to her now then she liberates us now and in
the after death State. Yeah.
From what from our own Darkness that's why she looks dark.
Yeah she's not really dark Kali is like a sky like the sky is
dark. Right?
Like when it's getting dark like a sunset but it's the sky.
Is it really dark like the water is in blue?
From a distance this fluid or darshan's, but when you get
close to it, it's transparent. So Kali is really transparent.
And she's really, she's a really fun person.
Well, I really like, I really enjoyed a lot getting more
intimate with her. Well yeah, she is.
She's a really I love her a lot. She's my inspiration.
Yeah. And protection.
Would you be willing to share some more music?
Sure. Would you like me to do the
chakras which and go through them?
Yes, okay. This is called Buddhist City.
It's the just telling us we have another about 15 minutes.
Okay under that. Okay so okay these are the it's
called the purification of the elements.
Actually, what it is is it's dying.
It's a meditation on death because what happens when you
die is that the element start to dissolve in your body, first of
all, you start to feel really heavy and oh Oppressed when the
Earth element comes into play and then when the Earth element
dissolves, the water element takes over and you feel really
cold or hot and you shiver and water happens.
And then the fire element starts to dissolve and then the air
element. And finally, you go into The
Ether and hearing becomes very, very loud and sound start to
take on a hallucinatory form Book of the Dead.
And it's also what happens when the Kundalini rises from the
lowest chakra which is moved our the Earth up to the crown of the
head and this is the symbology to of the hair.
Top. It's a symbol of pulling the
energy up and this is Lord, Shiva sitting on the top of the
other. And this is the point of
meditation where the spirit, descends right about here, or
almost like a cloud. It stays here.
It's a point. It's a focus.
It's a point of do, put your Consciousness.
So that's really what all these things are to is there are tools
to focus our awareness, sort of like the Jews wear a yarmulke.
Yeah. To exalt us the relationship
between Heaven and Earth and now, right?
So if you focus with me on the muladhara, And sit up straight.
And feel the spinal cord suspended and feel the river of
energy flowing up and down your spine from the back of your
neck, into the ocean of your skull cup.
Down to the square at the root of your spine, move it up.
Well, the DAR is a square yellow Square, the very base of the
spine in this. Yellow square is a red triangle.
The point downward in the red triangle is Lord Ganesh.
The issues, the elephant headed, god of wisdom, he is the
guardian of the gate, we invoke in ish to remove the obstacle so
that the Kundalini can be aroused and awakened.
The obstacle is our mind. The seed syllable of muladhara
is love. Love.
Look. Love.
Love.
Love from the Earth element, the water element in the SWAT.
This time, the sexual energy which is fantasy and the astral
world. This is the sense.
Of taste and the Crescent Moon is the symbol of swagger star.
It's a white crescent moon. The seed syllable of swathi star
Bob Bob. Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob.
Bob. Bob.
Bob Bob. The water and the steals with
our tears. When the rain with the ocean
with a river water, the water dissolves and fire of the solar
plexus money poor. This is called the city of
jewels and the solar plexus. It's a triangle pointing upwards
and it's the fire element body. It is our digestion or
nourishment. When we take in, which
transforms through the fire and the seed syllable of this chakra
is Rob. Rob, Rob, Rob Rob.
Rah. Rah.
Rah, rah. Rah.
Rock. God.
Bravo, bravo bravo. Fire moves into the heart with
the air. All the heart is the unstruck
sound the heart, chakra. The deer is the vehicle and
hearing the sound, is the sensor on a heart is Young.
It's the Star of David or the six-pointed triangle.
All entwined yob. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Duh. Yeah.
Your dog, dog. Yeah.
The throat is Lord Shiva The Ether blue crystal blue light
puzzle blue sunrise. Sunset blue purple haze.
Sheba the sugar the ever pure one hub.
The syllable is the Bindu Circle.
Still round circle how hot hot hot.
How, how, how? Ha ha ha.
Ha ha. Huh.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh, Agia is the third eye to Petal Lotus.
This is gue Rue. This is where the inner Guru or
the remover of the goo, which is what Guru is.
The GU is Darkness ruis removal. So, unless they go removes the
darkness, there's not a guru, the behind the forehead is argue
chocolate. This is the realm of the vision,
the high state, where we get the Divine knowledge, some Huh.
Huh. Huh.
Huh!
Huh. The Divine Serpent of the holy
mother ascends to the top of the head sahasrara.
The 10,000 had Lotus, the rainbow the seed syllable.
Is she? She
Hey. Back to the heart.
Talk about and us. I don't know how to thank you.
But did you do happy to? Happy.
Share with. With us all, it's all us.
Beautiful. Well, you will have reached many
people time off. So thank you again.
And again, for me. Get another chance.
I'd love to have you Thanking us again.
Be back to New York. Goodbye, Sean.
Sean, Sean. Thank you very much for joining
us, and we will see you next week.