1 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,760 Hello and welcome back to A Better World. 2 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,040 This is your host, Mitchell J Raven, and I'm very glad you're 3 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,720 joining us again today. Today we're going to have 4 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,560 another very interesting show. We have invited back my 5 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,880 colleague and dear friend Sam Daly Harris. 6 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,320 Sam is one of my heroes. I tell him that. 7 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,880 I tell others that because I'm always talking about his books, 8 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:57,760 especially his latest Reclaiming Our Democracy Now, Sam has very 9 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,800 interesting background. I mean, he started off as a 10 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,800 percussionist. He was a musician, and he sure 11 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,680 is now, I imagine. But his work has become focused 12 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,880 on, earlier in his life, microcredits, and he worked with 13 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,520 Nobel Prize winner Muhammad Yunus in the microcredit 14 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,960 conferences around the country and probably around the world, 15 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:31,240 helping to fund small, small loans largely to women in 16 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,600 developing countries, helping them get a leg up in a local 17 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,200 economy. And he's done a lot of beautiful 18 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,200 work in that space. But he's also been a major 19 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,600 activist and a Democratic activist, if you will, and he's 20 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,840 written extensively about this. He's well known. 21 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,960 He's a consultant in many different areas, largely around 22 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,160 the environment and working with the issues of global warming, 23 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,080 reducing the carbon footprint and empowering organizations to 24 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,680 move forward in the political sphere and to be effective. 25 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,280 That's really what Sam does, better than anybody else I know, 26 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,320 and he's always inspiring to me. Just a couple of other words 27 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,160 about Sam and his background. He's the founder and president 28 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,640 of Results. A good word for it, right? 29 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,400 An international citizen's lobby dedicated to creating the 30 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,520 political will to end hunger and poverty. 31 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,480 Daley Harris is the author of the book As I mentioned, 32 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:39,600 Reclaiming Democracy, Healing, the Break Between People and 33 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,760 Government recently reissued to commemorate its 20th 34 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,000 anniversary. So that gives you a little bit 35 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,520 of an orientation of Sam and Sam's work, and it's again, Sam, 36 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:54,440 a pleasure to have you on a better world. 37 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,320 Again, it's. Great to be with you. 38 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,840 Thank you for having me. I'm so glad. 39 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:06,960 So your your motivation is for us to have a civic literacy, a 40 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,600 civic intelligence and civic courage to use what is given to 41 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:19,120 us, as in this case American citizens, and to exercise our 42 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:24,320 franchise as citizens and let our representatives know what we 43 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:29,120 think, know what we feel, and help them get educated about 44 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,720 those meaningful subjects and take it from there. 45 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,160 How do you do it? Does it work? 46 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,080 Well, let me take it from how did I get there a little bit. 47 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,840 What was my journey? And I'm going to tell a little 48 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,840 briefer version of it. But as you said, I was a 49 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,600 musician. I played percussion instruments 50 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,680 in the Miami Philharmonic for 12 years and taught high school 51 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,520 music. And 44 years ago I founded the 52 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,440 anti poverty lobby results. And a lot of times I'm asked 53 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,400 music poverty lobby, what's the connection? 54 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,240 And when I look back in my life, there's certain experiences that 55 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,640 start pointing me in a different direction. 56 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:16,120 In 1964 high school graduation, I learned of the death of a 57 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,600 friend a a year younger. Four years later, 1968 college 58 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,400 graduation, US Senator Robert Kennedy was assassinated right 59 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,880 around that time. In both cases, it really got me 60 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,080 to asking the questions of purpose. 61 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,040 Why am I here? What am I here to do? 62 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:38,880 What is my purpose? Nine years later, I'm still a 63 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,200 musician. I'm invited to a presentation on 64 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,080 ending world hunger, put on by The Hunger Project, and I go to 65 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,760 this event thinking, well, hunger is inevitable. 66 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,160 What do I know? I'm a musician. 67 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,280 I'm thinking, well, it's inevitable because there are no 68 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:56,360 solutions. Again, what do I know? 69 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,600 Because if there were solutions, somebody would have done 70 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,480 something by now. But I go to the event and it's 71 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,440 obvious right away. There's no mystery to growing 72 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,760 food or clean water. I'm not hopeless about the 73 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,680 perceived lack of solutions. I'm hopeless about human nature. 74 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,840 People, well Jeff, just never get around to doing what can be 75 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:20,160 done. But there's one human nature. 76 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,000 I have some control over my own. And my questions Why am I here? 77 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,320 What am I here to do? So I get involved in a big way. 78 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,360 This is the end of the story in 1978. 79 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,800 Nineteen 79 I speak to 7000 high school students on ending world 80 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,280 hunger classroom by classroom. And before I go in the first 81 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:44,640 classroom, I read some statements from Jimmy Carter's 82 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,800 Commission on World Hunger and others calling for the political 83 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,640 will to end hunger. So I asked 7000 high school 84 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,720 students, what's the name of your member of Congress? 85 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,680 I don't want to know if you wrote them. 86 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,560 I don't want to know if you met them. 87 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,320 Just the name out of 7000 asked Only 200. 88 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,560 Fewer than 3% could answer correctly. 89 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:15,680 Over 6800 could not tell me. Over 97% could not tell me. 90 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,240 The name of their member of Congress. 91 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,080 And results grew out of this gap between the calls for the 92 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,680 political will to end hunger on the one hand, and the lack of 93 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,360 basic information on who represented us in Washington on 94 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,680 the other. Wow, that must have been just 95 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:43,000 startling and stunning to experience that level of ill 96 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,520 education, if you. Will, yeah. 97 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,320 And if I could share this other thing. 98 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,480 I've been doing this exercise where I've been taking a 99 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,320 methodology that I teach on, writing a letter to the editor, 100 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,520 find an article that's an opening to the topic you want to 101 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,200 discuss, and then write the editor. 102 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,000 But I've been finding an article that's an opening to reclaiming 103 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,280 democracy, Cynicism, making a difference. 104 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:14,440 And I write the columnist or the producer of the show, and I want 105 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,160 to just give you a couple of titles from 2023 last year. 106 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,160 One was from the Boston Globe. You can name the Three Stooges. 107 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,400 Can you name your three members of Congress? 108 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,000 So it's like an example of we're we're just not very civically 109 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,200 literate. Another column, it was in The 110 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:41,560 Atlantic, and the title was Find the Form of Activism that Won't 111 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Make You Miserable. And he was basically saying 112 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,080 plant trees, work in a soup kitchen, but don't do political 113 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,160 advocacy. It'll make you miserable. 114 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,240 And then I wrote him about the the main thrust of the book, 115 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,400 which we'll discuss in a moment, and he liked that idea one more. 116 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,360 There was a a column in Salon where the a political science 117 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,320 professor from the University of Pennsylvania was being 118 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,120 interviewed. And the professor basically said 119 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,720 it's really difficult to make a difference other than at 120 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,800 election time. That's even true for a political 121 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,680 science professor. And I say no, no, elections are 122 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,920 critical, but so is the time between elections and the book 123 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,000 is all about, and we can go in detail in a moment, the 124 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,559 difference you can make and how between elections, and of course 125 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,679 elections are critical. Of course, these points are 126 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,520 excellent, and I remember back long before my time. 127 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,600 But the idea of the citizen representative, which was the 128 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,400 way things were back then, before we had professional 129 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,520 politicians, career politicians who get into office. 130 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,000 They gerrymander and Jerry Rigg to keep themselves in office, 131 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,480 and it's impossible, nearly nearly, to overcome an 132 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,200 incumbent. They have all of the tricks of 133 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,520 the trade and they keep themselves in power. 134 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,400 Unless there is a scandal of some sort that's overt, whether 135 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,080 it is theft or sex or, you know, their favorites, whatever it may 136 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,040 be. But that's a problem because 137 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,120 then the the citizen representative used to then go 138 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:35,800 back home and resume his normal life as a citizen at home. 139 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,600 Now we have a very different scenario. 140 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:44,840 So things have changed in the political arena, you know, But 141 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,360 you I would like to hear because you, you make a difference in 142 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,080 such a way through the education of these groups that you've had 143 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,000 all over the country and beyond. And it's really been impactful 144 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,440 in making a difference in legislation and why don't we 145 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,680 start with that? Well, let me tell you the main 146 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:09,160 thrust of the book and then how that works in legislation. 147 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,120 Most everyone, well everyone knows when it comes to advocacy, 148 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,040 protests and people know transactional advocacy. 149 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,000 They don't know the word, but transactional is like sign the 150 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,560 petition Transaction complete. The book is about 151 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:31,880 transformational advocacy and the idea there is when you are 152 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:37,000 trained, encouraged, and succeed at doing things as an advocate 153 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,560 you never thought you could do, like meet with a member of 154 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:43,600 Congress and bring them on board to the your issue. 155 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,400 Or like, write a letter to the editor and have it published on 156 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,560 an issue you care about. When you do those kinds of 157 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,400 things that you never thought you could do, you see yourself 158 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,800 in a new light. You see yourself as a community 159 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,560 leader. And the subtitle of the 2024 160 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:07,720 edition is Reclaiming Our Democracy, Every Citizen's Guide 161 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,240 to Transformational Advocacy. And so let me give you an 162 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,720 example of a victory. In 2019, the Global Fund to 163 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,680 Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria was 17 years old, and it 164 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:28,120 had saved 38 million lives. And in 2019, it was up for a 165 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,720 replenishment of three years. And President Trump called for a 166 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:39,240 29% cut to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and 167 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,600 Malaria. And other countries would take 168 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,680 the US lead. Now, most people didn't even 169 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,800 know about this. And if they did, most people 170 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,040 would throw up their hands. What can you do? 171 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,280 You can't fight City Hall. They won't listen to me. 172 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:56,560 But the people I know roll up their sleeves and they get 173 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,640 involved. And they got hundreds of 174 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,440 Republicans and Democrats to cosign, sponsor really 175 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,720 resolutions in the House and Senate in support of the Global 176 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,760 Fund. They signed letters to the 177 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,840 Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and to the chairs of the 178 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,440 Appropriations Committee and the House and Senate in support of 179 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,080 the Global Fund. And at the end of the the 180 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:25,040 period, 2 Republicans and two Democrats stood on a stage in 181 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,680 Lyon, France at the Global Fund replenishment and announced that 182 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:33,680 the Congress would increase the Global Fund to fight AIDS, 183 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:41,480 Tuberculosis and Malaria by 16%, not cut it by 29% and that's an 184 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,520 example of people making a difference. 185 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,760 And two years later, the Global Fund announced that it had saved 186 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:55,240 50 million lives since its inception in 2002. 187 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,920 And and and by the time of 2020-2021 kind of thing, it's. 188 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:07,400 Such a good story. And it it it just speaks to how 189 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:12,800 you and your work and writing have empowered people to get 190 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,640 off. As we say in the old language, 191 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,800 they're taught us, yes. It's a technical term. 192 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,520 It is a technical term, it's a political term. 193 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,320 Yeah, yeah, you. Won't go into that part. 194 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,560 But no, this is the part of your work that I have such respect 195 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:30,560 for. An admiration. 196 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,240 I mean, just this morning I wrote a letter, as I've written 197 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,480 so many, to our dear President Biden, asking him to please 198 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:44,920 resign because he is fomenting acts of war and criminality 199 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,000 across the world and killing innocent children because of the 200 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,920 way we fund these wars. And it doesn't matter where they 201 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,800 are. They're killing people. 202 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,120 And I'm against that. I don't know what it is. 203 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,600 I find it abhorrent. And I don't want my tax dollars 204 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,080 to be going to that effort when we need so many things like the 205 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,960 group that you just referred to, I'd way rather see our money 206 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,120 going to fund an organization like that doing good. 207 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:21,320 So tell me, how do you deal with deal with the thornier issues 208 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,440 that we face as a nation? How do you deal with, for for 209 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,920 instance, the issues of increasing surveillance, 210 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:36,400 increasing violations of our own constitution that most people 211 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,320 don't even know is happening, increasing censorship that's 212 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,800 actually originating in the White House, doing things that 213 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,880 are completely against the 1st Amendment? 214 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,600 I I'd love to know. Well, let me say, let me say it 215 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,240 a couple of ways. I work with groups. 216 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,880 Maybe it's the Quaker Lobby, FC and L Friends Committee on 217 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,840 national legislation. Their focus is various peace 218 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,680 issues or I work with a group maybe Citizens Climate Lobby. 219 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,480 Their focus is climate change and and the like. 220 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:11,560 And so I'll be coaching them on being more effective. 221 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,640 So let me give you an example of what someone should look for in 222 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:21,240 an organization that delivers transformational advocacy. 3 223 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,240 things. Thing One, and there's two 224 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,680 subheads under this one is recruitment and building 225 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,280 community. They're constantly bringing new 226 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,200 people in and not like Make My E Blast list larger though. 227 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,400 They're bringing new people in and forming them into chapters. 228 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,000 That's the recruitment and then the building. 229 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,680 Community. They have a monthly all of 230 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,560 organization, not just for the leaders, all of organization 231 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,640 webinar with guest speakers and Q&A and inspiration. 232 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,760 So recruitment and community Building 2 training. 233 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,280 They're training you. How do you get the meeting? 234 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,040 How do you prepare for the meeting? 235 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,320 What do you ask for? How do you write a letter to the 236 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,440 editor? How do you table at Earth Day or 237 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 whenever to bring new people in? Three. 238 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,680 The organization helps you have breakthroughs. 239 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,600 There's a drawing in the book, your comfort zone in one corner, 240 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,560 and then where the magic happens in the other corner. 241 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,880 And is it an organization that helps breakthroughs, helps you 242 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,080 move out of your comfort zone over to where the magic happens, 243 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,920 Recruitment and community building, training and 244 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,160 encouraging breakthroughs. That's a kind of an organization 245 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,600 we're looking for. Let me give you an example of, 246 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:47,200 well, we don't find that much. And so that's because most 247 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:53,440 organizations are afraid of making big asks of volunteers. 248 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,000 And let me give you an example of why that works when you do 249 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,640 it. I was coaching this two years 250 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,440 ago. I was coaching Mike Robinson. 251 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,079 He was the leader of the Foundation for Climate 252 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:10,040 Restoration chapter in Seattle and their focus was removing the 253 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,760 carbon that's already in the atmosphere. 254 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,760 And the the chapter was two or three months old, and they were 255 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,960 getting ready for their first ever conference call, the whole 256 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,400 nationwide first ever in February 2022. 257 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,319 And he told me that they had had four meetings with state 258 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:33,120 representatives in Washington state and one was chair of the 259 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,200 Committee on Energy and Environment. 260 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,800 And the chair knew everything about climate change, but it 261 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,480 barely heard of carbon removal. And he asked the new baby 262 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,160 chapter if they would brief him and his staff on carbon removal 263 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,800 so they could look for some legislative remedies. 264 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,320 And I said, well, wait a minute. You have had four meetings with 265 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,920 elected officials in two or three months. 266 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,400 Had you ever met with an elected official before? 267 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,920 He said, no, this is my first time. 268 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,800 I said, had you ever written an elected official before? 269 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,720 He said, I'd never written, I'd never called. 270 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,280 I'd never met with an elected official before these four. 271 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,440 And I said, put that in your talk. 272 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,520 If you don't tell people it was your first ever, they're going 273 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,760 to think he's an expert. I'm not an expert. 274 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,360 He could do it. I couldn't do it and really want 275 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:29,200 to let people know tell the truth. 276 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,240 Yeah. And and let people know that you 277 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,760 were a beginner and they can make a difference with this 278 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,760 also. Maybe I could tell one other 279 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,000 story that really drills deep on this transformational 280 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,040 experience. Yeah, yeah. 281 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,800 Yeah, it's it's amazing. So this is woman. 282 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,040 He's she's amazing. She had a lived experience of 283 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,840 poverty. Her name is Maxine Thomas. 284 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,680 She joins a group called Circles for people who are motivated to 285 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:04,400 move out of poverty. And this group realizes they 286 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,840 have a story to tell. So they googled where can we get 287 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,880 help telling our story and they find results. 288 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,320 The anti poverty lobby I founded in 1980 and she goes. 289 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,720 She gets a scholarship to go to a results conference in 290 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,560 Washington DC She has to borrow a suitcase. 291 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,560 She doesn't own a suitcase. She goes to the results 292 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,440 conference and she only goes to sessions on global poverty. 293 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,840 She doesn't even go to any of the domestic poverty sessions. 294 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,360 But the night before their Hill visits, their visits with their 295 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:40,040 senators and representatives, she learns that the Earned 296 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,280 Income Tax Credit is about to expire. 297 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,840 And she she's the Earned Incomes Tax Credit is for working people 298 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,880 at low and middle income, and in 2020 they received 3100 on 299 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,960 average for a family. And she has this meeting. 300 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,120 I'm going to read what she says about her meeting with her 301 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:06,440 member of Congress, she says. The first Congressional meeting 302 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,760 on lobby day was with Senator Dan Coats and brought Nuahas. 303 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,080 He was there for the entire meeting. 304 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,120 I can still feel it. I was a ball of emotion. 305 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,920 It felt like an out of body experience. 306 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,520 I was processing being in DC and now I'm in an exclusive meeting. 307 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,760 We're all dressed up. It was high level. 308 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,000 The volunteers were polished and sharp. 309 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,600 But I was scared and worried that whether whether I would say 310 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,360 the right thing, that's that's all of us at the first meeting, 311 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,040 Scared and worried. I think it was Lisa who asked me 312 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,880 would you like to say anything? I thank the senator, I said. 313 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,920 I learned last night why I'm here. 314 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,960 I didn't know I could come from Indianapolis to talk with you. 315 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,680 Someone who represents us and can help us. 316 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,160 I can't imagine what will happen when the earned if the earned 317 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,800 income tax credit is taken away from families like mine. 318 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:05,120 I'm able to take a deep breath and catch up on my bills because 319 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:10,280 of the EITCI look forward to tax time because that's the only 320 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,240 time I can handle all my financial burden. 321 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,760 I like to take my kids to the mall to buy shoes without 322 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,720 worrying if we'll take away from other bills. 323 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,920 And then at the end of the day, after all of her meetings with 324 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,560 Congress, she says. I was euphoric. 325 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,640 I was on this high and felt I was part of something 326 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,760 revolutionary, and that's an example of the experience of 327 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,080 transformation, I think earlier in the chapter, she says. 328 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,160 I have a heart for service, but I didn't know anything for about 329 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,320 advocacy, especially political advocacy. 330 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,680 And then by the end, that's the transformation that I just told 331 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,800 you I'll. Tell you I I'm going to tell you 332 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:04,280 a little story which is long ago I was considering medicine and I 333 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,280 got wiser and I dropped it. I stuck with psychology but 334 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,360 during that inter period I got a job at Columbia law School so I 335 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,400 could go to Columbia Pre Med for that was they didn't pay you 336 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,920 much of anything but they paid you in courses. 337 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,360 So I was working in Columbia law School and I saw all of these 338 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,840 students first year, second year and 3rd year students grading 339 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,160 all around waiting to be part of corporate America. 340 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,800 That's all they cared about. And God, there's so much good 341 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,840 stuff that could be done for the people who are in need beyond 342 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,560 the corporate sphere. I mean, of course you want to 343 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,320 make money. Everybody wants to make money. 344 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,600 There's not a problem with that. But can't you think a little 345 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,760 larger? And the people who really need 346 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,560 your work also? Anyway, I realized also that 347 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:03,880 civic education was something that was far and few between. 348 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,400 And so I developed a program that I gave to the Dean of the 349 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,040 law school, where I came up with the whole curriculum to teach 350 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,720 high school students that might not ever get to college about 351 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:24,920 civic responsibility, civic obligation and just their own 352 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,360 legal positions, lawful positions in our society. 353 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,720 And he looked at it before he tore it up and said, well, nice 354 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,680 thinking. You know, I appreciate the 355 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,160 thought. And exactly. 356 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,880 Anyway. So I think that that experience 357 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:50,200 when I was all of 22 or so years old has allowed me to appreciate 358 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,520 what it is you're up to all the more. 359 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000 And. And I'm going to answer a 360 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,880 question that I posed to you by listening to what you're saying. 361 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,080 Sam And that is in the sense, it doesn't matter what the content 362 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,240 of the subject is that needs to be dealt with. 363 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,320 But if you have the tools that you teach in your book and in 364 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,840 your groups of how to be effective communicators, how to 365 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,360 be community leaders, how to set up a meeting with a 366 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,440 representative, House of Representatives or Congress or 367 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,720 local, yes, you can use those skills for dealing with any 368 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,320 matter at hand. Yes. 369 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,360 Let me give you along that line some bad news and some good 370 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,880 news. OK, found out. 371 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,720 It's on. Yeah. 372 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,400 The independent sector did a study last year and found that 373 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,920 31% of nonprofits were doing advocacy, which was less than 374 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,400 half the numbered percent doing advocacy earlier. 375 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,480 Another study of from the Congressional Management 376 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,160 Foundation asked advocacy professionals what their main 377 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,880 offering was, and 79% said that it was online petitions. 378 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,720 But only 3% of congressional staff said that made a 379 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,000 difference. So that's why it's all the more 380 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,840 important for all your viewers and your listeners to find 381 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,320 organizations that deliver transformational advocacy 'cause 382 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,720 they can be few and far between. And the main, another main 383 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,200 message for the group is this is a methodology that can help you 384 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,400 make a difference and heal our democracy in the process. 385 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,680 It's not the only solutions needed, but it's one critical 386 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,920 missing piece citizens awakening to their power. 387 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520 Hallelujah. God bless you, Sam Daily Harris. 388 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,680 I totally, totally agree. It's it's a message of 389 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:02,840 empowerment and it's a call to our own responsibility as 390 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,680 citizens. I mean, you know, democracy ebbs 391 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,360 and floats. It is not a guarantee. 392 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:13,480 As Jefferson said, the cost of democracy is eternal vigilance 393 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,400 and I think we need to really abide by that that old idea that 394 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,200 is ever present. So Sam, thanks for your good 395 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,120 work. I want to continue to encourage 396 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,560 you, and for all of you, I want you to really take all of what 397 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Sam had to say here to heart. Because while it's good to be 398 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,200 part of an organization even if you're not, your voice is 399 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,720 important. And I always say that one letter 400 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,680 represents in their minds, their congressman or senators minds, 401 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,280 at least 1000, if not a few thousand voices. 402 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,360 So think that way. You are giving voice to people 403 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:00,560 who are not willing or ready to share, but you are. 404 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,840 So on that note. Thanks again. 405 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,440 Thanks. Keep up the. 406 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,160 Good work. This is Mitchell J Raven for a 407 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,040 Better World. Thanks so much for joining us 408 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,480 again today and I look forward to seeing you all next week.