1 00:00:09,500 --> 00:00:12,800 Today, I'm going on a sartorial Journey with journalist and 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,100 author, Dylan Jones, Obe Dylan, studied Chelsea School of Art 3 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,000 and then sent Martin School of Art. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,800 He was the award-winning editor of GQ magazine and has won the 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,400 British Society of magazine editors editor of the Year 6 00:00:26,900 --> 00:00:31,900 award, a record 11 times. In 2013, he was the recipient of 7 00:00:31,900 --> 00:00:35,800 the mark, Fox her award under his editorship the magazine. 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,000 One over 80 Awards, a former editor. 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,100 At ID, the face Arena, The Observer and the Sunday Times. 10 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:45,600 He's a former media columnist for the guardian. 11 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:48,900 A former columnist for the independent, and is the author 12 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,300 of the Sunday Times. Bestseller, David Bowie alive. 13 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:56,200 And a New York Times bestseller. Jim Morrison Darkstar, as well 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,900 as 25 other books, including his recently published. 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,099 Blecch faster than a cannonball, 1995 and all that he was 16 00:01:05,099 --> 00:01:09,300 executive producer of the 2020. BBC, One show Idris Elba meets 17 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:12,500 Paul McCartney and produced, a four-part series of the 80s for 18 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:17,500 BBC, Two last Autumn and 2022. He launched a Film Production 19 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:20,400 Company Beacon films with Maggie Todd from Disney. 20 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:25,100 I'm exhausted, Dylan. That is the most unbelievable 21 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:28,200 career to date. So, thank you for making the 22 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,000 time today. Very nice to see You, it's great 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,700 to see you too. Really is. 24 00:01:33,500 --> 00:01:38,500 So maybe we should start with what's your earliest sartorial 25 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:40,700 memory. When did you first realize the 26 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:45,200 impact of clothes when I was 12 years old? 27 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:48,700 And like, a lot of people from my generation, I saw David Bowie 28 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:55,700 on top of the pox and it's when he performed star, man, and it 29 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:58,600 was a summer, I think of June, or July 1972. 30 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:03,200 And at that point, top of the pops of probably watched by 12 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,100 and a half 13 million people, which is then it was a sort of 32 00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:11,300 25% of the population of the UK. But I think if you were an 33 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:15,100 impressionable teenager like I was the time you felt that David 34 00:02:15,100 --> 00:02:17,500 Bowie was talking directly to you. 35 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:22,400 I thought he was talking directly to me and that's a very 36 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,800 important part of that generation, very important part 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,300 of pop culture. And David Bowie was introduced 38 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:37,200 to many people's lives through that through that performance to 39 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,700 two things. The first thing is, I remember 40 00:02:39,700 --> 00:02:43,500 the last time, the last significant conversation I had 41 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:46,600 with my father before he died, would have been Christmas that 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,300 12 13 years ago. And he asked me what I was 43 00:02:49,300 --> 00:02:51,600 doing. And I said, well, Bob line, I'm 44 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,000 doing this book. I'm doing this book on David 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Bowie's appearance on top of the pops. 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,200 He said, really, and he let me Wang on About this, you know, 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,200 and I was talking about the music and the emotional Paul and 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,000 the color and the lights and everything, and you let me talk 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,700 after about 10 minutes. He said, you do realize we had a 50 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:10,300 black and white television, don't you? 51 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:12,100 So. So a lot of this stuff that we 52 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:16,400 remember from our path is sort of received information, but to 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:23,000 go to your go back to your question, after we'd all seen 54 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,400 that extraordinary performance on top of the pots. 55 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:29,300 Some people wanted to dress like David Bowie. 56 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:31,200 Some people wanted to buy his record. 57 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,700 Some people wanted to go and see him in concert. 58 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:38,300 I wanted his hair. So, a couple of days later I 59 00:03:38,308 --> 00:03:42,600 summoned up called the courage to call around the various, I 60 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,900 think they were called unisex hair salons. 61 00:03:44,900 --> 00:03:48,900 At the time, I was 12 years old, but Brave thing to do it's not 62 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:52,300 brave but I mean it's an unusual thing to do but a 12 year old 63 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:54,800 boy. So I call up all these unisex 64 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,300 islands and said, I'd like to come in and have a David Bowie 65 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:00,700 haircut. And for all the very young 66 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:03,600 people who are listening to your podcast, obviously at the time, 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,900 it he had a shock of Flame flame here, which was very, very 68 00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:12,000 unusual. No one knew what I was talking 69 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,400 about apart from one person, said come in. 70 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:18,000 So the Saturday sort of ten days later. 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:25,100 I went into this hair shape and with a picture of David Bowie. 72 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:27,100 Say, I want to look like that a color picture. 73 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:28,000 Clearly. Yeah. 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:35,300 I said, I want orange hair like that and I had long. 75 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:39,500 Okay. I like to the shoulder length 76 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:41,200 hair. That was really thin. 77 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,200 Yeah. And the guy just said not going 78 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,300 to work. It's not going to work. 79 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:46,100 I see you can use. Is there anything you can do? 80 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,500 So he started cutting and I left the salon looking like Dave Hill 81 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:55,500 who was in slave. So my first attempt at being 82 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:59,500 fashionable for the failed dismally, but that was the first 83 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:03,500 time I understood really the power of fashion and also the 84 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:09,000 power of a man wearing Wearing clothes that had a very powerful 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,900 effect on people. And dude, after you'd had the 86 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:16,000 hair done, did you? Read the second-hand shops and 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,700 try and pull together? The David Bowie, look, not 88 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,200 really. But I think it made me aware. 89 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:27,200 That clothes were very important. 90 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,500 Plus, we were all reaching the age of puberty girls. 91 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:35,400 Peer pressure school, and so people were starting to dress in 92 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,900 particular ways anyway. The other thing that people 93 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:43,300 always forget is that you can't just replicate something because 94 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:45,200 no one had any money. No. 95 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:45,900 Exactly. On that. 96 00:05:45,900 --> 00:05:49,700 You would like, you say, you'd go to junk shop so you'd cut 97 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,100 things, you'd wear sparkly socks, you do all these little 98 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:57,200 things to try and create some kind of look, without look 99 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,000 trying, not to look ridiculous. And we didn't have the benefit 100 00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:05,700 of the High Street and all of the fast fashion labels that the 101 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:09,000 kids do not Now we had to be a lot more creative back then. 102 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Yeah. And I kind of think we were and 103 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,900 that became even more apparent. Couple of years later when punk 104 00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:21,600 happened, and when that happened, that was again, a 105 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:27,400 another kind of seismic shop pop culturally, and it overnight, 106 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,000 not overnight over appeared about six months, seriously 107 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,800 change the way that a lot of young people dressed. 108 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,000 Including myself who went from being a sort of long haired lay 109 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,100 about to someone who was at Chelsea, School of Art, around 110 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:47,100 the corner with short hair and leather jackets, and all that 111 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:49,200 kind of stuff. You know, I was going to say 112 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,200 when you, then had your major clubbing days from from what I 113 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,200 understand. Do you remember your clubbing? 114 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,800 Looks at the time? Oh, I mean, I mean, I I did a 115 00:07:04,808 --> 00:07:06,600 lot of clubbing, probably too much. 116 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,100 I probably spent 10 years in nightclubs, and yes, I spent a 117 00:07:10,108 --> 00:07:12,800 fortune on clothes. It was all about dressing up. 118 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,400 It was the decade of late, 70s, to late 8, it was all about 119 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,300 dressing up. I wore some, how many 120 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:24,600 extraordinary things? In fact, I've kept a few things, 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,100 most of them, I had a rail at least to live in Brixton, in a 122 00:07:28,108 --> 00:07:31,600 small flat and I had a rail of clothes and I had a bus stop 123 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,200 with my girlfriend 1984, and she still Who had keys that the 124 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,600 flats I came in? Oh no. 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,200 Ya know what did she do? Everything? 126 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:43,300 No, I walked in the flat was not much bigger. 127 00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:45,700 What should you don't? Why don't, why don't we talk 128 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:48,200 about? It was like twice the size of 129 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,100 this desk, very small bed, rail of clothes, and she'd been there 130 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:54,600 for like a couple of hours and she's literally cut up 131 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,800 everything Galliano hamnett. Even in our do, all of this 132 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,200 stuff, just cut up as weejun, loafers all it was Bin bags, 133 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,100 full of all. These little I should have kept 134 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:09,100 the labels. Actually, I was going to say, 135 00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:11,700 did you wear any of the partly Shred? 136 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:16,600 The only thing that was left was a black ma-1 flying jacket, a 137 00:08:16,608 --> 00:08:20,500 pair of Katherine hamnett trousers, and the local authors 138 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:27,100 that I was wearing, but I remember about seven six or 139 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:30,800 seven years ago. I got two daughters 12, 21 ones, 140 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,400 24, and the year, when Georgia my you Younger daughter was 141 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,700 allowed to go to school without wearing a uniform. 142 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:41,200 Obviously, they all get very, you know, they put a lot of 143 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,100 attention on what they wear to go to school. 144 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:47,500 So one morning, I'm letting her out of the house and she's I 145 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:51,800 think 16 And she's wearing black Emma. 146 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,000 One flight jacket. Once his shirt, no, no, it is 147 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,400 all her clothes black with black and then one flying jacket. 148 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:06,000 White T-shirt, Levi's 501s a logo belt Gucci on it, white 149 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,500 socks and a pair of Oxblood looks loafers. 150 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,800 And I looked at her and I said you're not going to believe this 151 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,900 but in 1986 I was wearing. Exactly same clothes. 152 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,100 She was horrified. Oh but that must You've been 153 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:24,900 such a cool moment for you and seeing your beautiful daughter 154 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:28,200 wearing that look, but, in, in a contemporary way. 155 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:31,400 Well, I thought so, but she, she just thought it was the worst 156 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,700 thing in the world. She was mortified. 157 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,800 So I found a picture that been in a magazine. 158 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,800 And then last night, she came after, and I showed it to, and I 159 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,400 said, look, you said, I look nothing like ridiculous. 160 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,700 And, of course, will you in a school uniform? 161 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Yeah, yeah, my probably was, although, I Got thrown out of 162 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,900 school for not wearing a school uniform. 163 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:57,800 I seem to remember because I've never thought I'd be D being 164 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,300 particularly interested in clothes. 165 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:02,000 But looking back in answering your questions. 166 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,700 I think I probably have been, but I remember why I was thrown 167 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:10,500 out of school because I was wearing, it would have been 75, 168 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:17,500 Oxford bags, green pinstripe Oxford bags, spoon shoes, a 169 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:21,300 shirt with a butterfly collar, Little sort of repeated pattern 170 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:26,900 of a French cafe scene. So you went from this crazy, 171 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:31,100 clubbing world into the magazine world. 172 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,400 Yeah. How did that impact on your 173 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,900 style? I mean, you must have evolved 174 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:42,000 your style quite rapidly or not. Not really because for the first 175 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,800 ten years when I was working ID and then the face and Arena you 176 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,400 were working in an environment, which is independent. 177 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,700 Shushing, you were working with the same people. 178 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:55,000 You were going out with in the evening, it was all about clubs 179 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,400 and music and fashion and style, and what-have-you culture. 180 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:06,800 So it really changed. When I the beginning of the 90s, 181 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,100 I stopped working magazines and went to work in newspapers and I 182 00:11:11,108 --> 00:11:13,400 just thought this is the this is a different world. 183 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:17,200 A as a journalist you're not really taking seriously unless 184 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,300 you do work. For paper, at least for a 185 00:11:21,308 --> 00:11:24,400 certain period of time and that's what I always used to 186 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,400 tell the young guys came to work for me. 187 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,100 I said, you've done this, you've had the best training in this 188 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:32,800 world. Now, you need to go off and do 189 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,600 something in newspapers and I think that's still the case. 190 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,900 And did you have to change your style when you went to work for 191 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:41,200 newspapers? Then I didn't have to but I 192 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,000 changed but I chose to yeah. So I wore suits. 193 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:47,000 Yeah. And that's pretty much what I've 194 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,600 worn ever since is a suit dapper. 195 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:57,000 Delete, I think of you as Dapper Dylan and then so from papers to 196 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,100 Conde Nast, I always think of sort of condé Nast Vogue house. 197 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:07,400 It's quite a it's quite a hotbed of style as you would imagine it 198 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,200 to be. Did, did that change your style 199 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,300 at all? I don't think. 200 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:14,900 So. In fact, when we launched about 201 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,800 12 know, 11 years ago, we launched men's week. 202 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,100 Which was quite an exciting thing to do at the time Caroline 203 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:28,800 Rush see over the BSC in myself launch men's week and for about 204 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,100 four or five years, it was very successful and invariably at the 205 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:37,000 beginning of fashion week there would be and they'll always 206 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,200 Japanese for some reason they'd be there know what had always be 207 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,400 a couple and they come and want to do an in an interview and 208 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,900 their question would always be. They'd always ask the question 209 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:49,000 like what's your style regime? Something like this? 210 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,400 And I say, what I get up in the morning, I put a white shirt on 211 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,600 a blue suit pair of black shoes and then I walk to work and they 212 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,900 were invariably disappointed. So, but yeah, I wore suits. 213 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:04,300 I mean, I suppose what happened is that I migrated to sell 40 214 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:12,000 because I'd started having suit made for me when I was 24 and 215 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,300 this wasn't out of any particular adherence to style, 216 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,900 it was because in the 80s if you bought a suit Shoot, they were 217 00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:24,100 really boxy, they're all double breasted very boxy and of course 218 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:27,100 I was skinny and it just looked like someone had thrown a tent 219 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,600 over a been called. So to, actually wear something. 220 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,500 I had to go and get something made. 221 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,400 So I started, I started quite young. 222 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,000 So 24 was when I first started having suits me, who did you go 223 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,100 to them? I went to a man called Jack 224 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:42,100 each. Yeah. 225 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,100 In Harrow, who made suit for Teddy, boys? 226 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,700 Have fantastic. And it did you go to him in 227 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:50,800 Harrow? James or, yeah. 228 00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:54,900 And I'd go there and I look like a freak from nightclubs and I 229 00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:59,200 surrounded by all these Teddy, Boys, quite elderly in quite 230 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,700 rough, and it was an experience. And then after that, I went to a 231 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:09,400 guy called Chris Rocco, in kentish town, who had a tailor 232 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,900 called Phillips, who was an ex-boxer and he made suits, for 233 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:16,900 Spandau Ballet for Wham, for lots of people, lots of pop 234 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:20,100 stars time, what George Michael Used to do George. 235 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:23,000 Michael used to go to this shop in South Molton Street was which 236 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,600 was called bizarre and he used to ask if he can borrow a lot of 237 00:14:27,608 --> 00:14:29,400 clothes with a view to buying something. 238 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,900 So what he would do is he'd borrow all these clothes, you 239 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,800 buy a couple of things to keep them happy and you get any get 240 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,100 Chris, a copy. All this stuff. 241 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:38,800 No. Yeah it was very much that era 242 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,700 though. It wasn't it? 243 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:41,400 Yeah. Fantastic. 244 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:43,500 Whose style would you really reach? 245 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,000 Do you say I'm very conservative? 246 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,400 I I like old school. Cool. 247 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:55,000 Traditional Hollywood glamour. I think that that's a period 248 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,500 that you can't really beat. It's when it's when traditional 249 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:06,100 role models were fashionable. And regardless of anyone, 250 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:11,200 sexuality and it was a, it was formal and it was about dressing 251 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,600 well for a purpose and I like that, I like dressing up things. 252 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,400 Whether it's a charity do or a date or not anymore. 253 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,200 Obviously, But I was going to say they know the wife. 254 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:26,300 It's a I think that's important. Yeah. 255 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:30,400 I think that the ability to be individual, these days is 256 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,900 obviously too kind of exponential and it's fantastic 257 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:36,400 but people have freedom to wear what they like and do what they 258 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,200 like. But I do think that there's a 259 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400 formality about dressing well, particularly for men, which is 260 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:44,500 important. I totally agree. 261 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:48,300 I mean it's interesting you mentioned that because obviously 262 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:54,300 the I'll and fashion world has evolved hugely hugely, and 263 00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:59,700 you've got sort of celebrities, you know, on the catwalks now to 264 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:05,200 really intertwined, you've got reality TV stars, they're, you 265 00:16:05,208 --> 00:16:08,300 know, walking, the recent Balenciaga show. 266 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:14,500 What are your thoughts on that? Um, what on celebrities now 267 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:18,400 becoming part of the Fashion World? 268 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,800 I think fine. I mean it. 269 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:25,700 Is that thing is develop its I think that the the red carpet I 270 00:16:25,708 --> 00:16:28,300 was talking about this with my business partner, the other day 271 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,200 as you said, was that he worked for Disney for a very long time 272 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,600 and we're talking about the importance of red carpet. 273 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,600 The thing is, if you have a good red carpet event, that's your 274 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,600 marketing campaign. Now, you don't need anything 275 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,900 else, and you actually don't need to employ photographers, 276 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:48,400 either need a red carpet event and you have Instagram, and 277 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,200 that's kind of it. And that's your That's your 278 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,000 marketing. What do I think about it? 279 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,100 I'm not sure. I think it's just a natural. 280 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,800 Evolution of the way that various Industries have changed, 281 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,800 its the introduction of new technologies into this world. 282 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,800 And in some respects, it's made Commerce e, easier it's made, 283 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:15,900 publicity easier. And I, and working having spent 284 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:21,700 a lot of time working with young designers, young designers, who 285 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:26,900 would Bust a gut in spend every penny they had in order to put 286 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,300 on a fashion show. In fact often I would say don't 287 00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:31,600 do a show. Yeah just put it into your 288 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:33,400 business. You don't need a shirt. 289 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,000 Yeah but obviously they're very proud and they wanted to be part 290 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,500 of the whole system but even though it's tougher now for 291 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:44,000 younger designers, I think that things like Instagram, social 292 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,700 media, and general have enabled them to to to use media in a 293 00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,300 different and cheaper way. And that's good. 294 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,200 It is, I think That's great. I mean, and can I just quickly 295 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,200 ask you, Kanye West, we sent goings-on. 296 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:04,800 Well, everything that I've read is appalling and everything that 297 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,900 I've read, totally negates, anything that he's done before. 298 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,600 I mean, I can't say because I haven't heard him say these 299 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,600 things to me, but everything that has been mediated so far, 300 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,500 leads me to think that this is a side of his personality, the 301 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:23,700 ugly side of his personality, which like, I say, Kind of 302 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:27,700 negates any amazing creativity that he possesses. 303 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:31,400 Yes, it's a shame, isn't it? It's a terrible shame. 304 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,700 Yeah, just talking about male artists musicians. 305 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:40,500 Creatives if you could pick three, who would you consider to 306 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:45,200 be the most stylish or inspirational performers before 307 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,900 most creatives? I think that Bowie we've already 308 00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:51,900 talked about. I think that Harry Styles is 309 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:55,000 really carrying the flag Big. But also I think you can't 310 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,800 ignore someone like me. Jagger Mick. 311 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,500 Jagger was cool in his teens, his 20th, pretty much. 312 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,800 Every decade I took my daughter to see the stones in the summer 313 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,000 last last year. And they'd never seen them 314 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,400 before and they just thought it was one of the best concerts 315 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,800 I've ever seen principally. Because of his Jag has energy 316 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:18,900 and the fact that you're very comfortable and I think in order 317 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:23,500 to be stylish particularly, if you're a performer, you Have to 318 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:25,500 be comfortable if you're not comfortable. 319 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,300 You just look like someone's giving you some stuff to wear. 320 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,200 Yes. I've always felt very strongly. 321 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,900 You've got to really own your clothes and if you don't you 322 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,300 feel uncomfortable and people around, you feel uncomfortable? 323 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:46,400 Yeah, I mean someone like Someone like Jay Z has that 324 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,900 confidence. Yes we did an event with him 325 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:54,000 once again and he was just very very cool and I think it's that 326 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,600 thing that cool is such a commodity these days. 327 00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:01,000 And actually it's that goes back to that whole thing. 328 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,300 You've got it or you haven't got it. 329 00:20:02,308 --> 00:20:03,500 Yeah. You can't buy it. 330 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:06,400 Can you? Well, we are in it in an 331 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,600 industry. Where You can buy it, but it 332 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,400 doesn't always work. Yeah. 333 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:18,000 That's the point. Anyone who you look at that, you 334 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,100 think, or that's really not working. 335 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:26,400 That's really try too hard. Yeah, like, you're not going to 336 00:20:26,408 --> 00:20:31,000 be drawn on that. No, I mean, I think a lot of, a 337 00:20:31,008 --> 00:20:33,500 lot of entertainers, a lot of pop stars. 338 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,900 Dressed. But I mean, I think I remember 339 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:45,000 when we shot Ed Sheeran for the cover of GQ years ago, and I 340 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,600 said we were going to do this and the, the features team just 341 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,300 looked at me. Like, I was an idiot. 342 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:52,900 This is, there's no way you can make him look cool. 343 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,500 And actually, I think, I think we did in the end, but I'm not 344 00:20:55,500 --> 00:21:00,100 sure to what great aim because he's because he's thing is 345 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:01,800 looking like Oscar, isn't it? Yeah. 346 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,200 So, you know, yeah. But he owns that. 347 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,300 Yeah, yeah, it's quite a lot. That's why it's you're right 348 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:09,300 there. You're right. 349 00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:13,600 They're coming back to Brands and Tailors and who are you 350 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,500 really rating on Savile Row right now? 351 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:22,400 Because I think Savile Row is this glorious Global Hub, of 352 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,700 brilliant, craftsmanship and skill. 353 00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:30,100 And I I just don't think there's anywhere like it in the world. 354 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:32,900 And I'd be really interested to hear your opinion because you 355 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:36,800 have been so immersed. First in the men's style world 356 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,800 for the last several decades. Well, I think that now, even 357 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:49,400 though covid has has thrown up so many challenges, not least 358 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,300 because it's made it impossible for people to do trunk shows, 359 00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,300 which is where they make a lot of their money. 360 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:58,500 As you know, I actually think that there's more of a Level 361 00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,800 Playing Field. Now, in several Rosen, has ever 362 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,500 been before and I think the issue now is Team trade back, I 363 00:22:05,508 --> 00:22:09,000 mean, during during freeze week because of the dollar London was 364 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,000 Awash with Americans that it felt like some sort of semblance 365 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,900 of normalcy, but it, but it has been challenging. 366 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:25,200 But even 20 years ago, I think there were such a sort of clash 367 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,100 between old-school Savile Row and the and, and the new boys 368 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:33,500 like Oswald. And Richard James, I don't think 369 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:37,000 that's the case anymore. Be more and I think and I think 370 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:44,900 it's possible to have a really genuine traditional Savile Row 371 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:53,900 experience whether you whether you're in Anderson a Shepherd or 372 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:58,400 Richard James or Oswald or ever. I mean, I don't think there's a 373 00:22:58,408 --> 00:23:02,400 person I know on Savile Row, whoo-hoo a I don't like and be I 374 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,100 don't have any respect for They all work, fantastically hard, 375 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,300 they're all really good at their jobs and they're and they're all 376 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,100 not the last Bastion because I think there's been a certain 377 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,600 amount of regeneration but they are flying a flag British 378 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,500 craftsmanship and creativity which I think is fantastic. 379 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,200 Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. 380 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,500 I think it's absolutely wonderful. 381 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:28,700 I always think of you as Dapper Dylan. 382 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:34,100 When do you feel that that you're you really nailed your 383 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,800 Your look that you have. Now I think through I just think 384 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:45,200 through repetition and I think that if you are in the media and 385 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:52,400 you're visible, I think you need a certain kind of look just to 386 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,600 for recognition. See if you and you do TV and 387 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,600 stuff. And and so I tended to look the 388 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,200 same, I tended to wear things which Were very very similar 389 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,700 because I think you kind of confuse people. 390 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,500 And also if you're representing a brand which I was that brand 391 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:16,800 very much felt like I suppose I tried to dress like the brand. 392 00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:19,400 Yeah. Which is navy blue suit white 393 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,100 shirt. I mean it's not very interesting 394 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,800 but I think it's the way you do it. 395 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,500 It I was going to say it is is the detail, isn't it? 396 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,000 The devils in the detail. Your beautiful pocket scarf that 397 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,800 you've got on the first day. You didn't go into Vogue house. 398 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,400 Yeah. Do you remember what you put on 399 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,000 that morning? Well, it would have been a you 400 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,300 talking about covid because because the thing is, we had, I 401 00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:45,400 left, we had covid, we had locked down and then I sort of 402 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,700 left Conde Nast a year after that. 403 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,400 So the thing is, we were already conditioned to not working and 404 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,300 dressing in a particular way and I think that helped in many 405 00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:00,300 respects because I think that we have a house in Wales and, yes, 406 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:01,100 it can be. Yeah. 407 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,600 And I think the tendency there is to kind of go Farrell You 408 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,600 know, it's like I cannot imagine a feral Dylan. 409 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:11,300 What does a feral? Dylan look like in Wales, I'd be 410 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,800 fascinated to know. What is it? 411 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,700 That? Is it, the Tweed version that 412 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:20,200 I'm seeing two, I don't hear a bad person. 413 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,000 I don't, I don't dress up and I don't think I dress up in 414 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,000 London. I think I have a uniform, but in 415 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,000 the country it's everything's about practicality. 416 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000 You know, this, it's about you where the the clothes that are 417 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,800 Appropriate for what you're doing, whether you're chopping 418 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,300 wood or going for a walk, so no Kashmir. 419 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:46,100 Okay, yeah. Got quite a catch me, got you, 420 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,400 got you, and do you have a writing uniform? 421 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,100 Do you have something not a uniform? 422 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:56,900 But something that you put on when you say, okay, I'm going to 423 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:02,200 really focus on writing today, which you do obviously a lot. 424 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,000 But is there something that you feel? 425 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,000 You have that sort of you come back to again. 426 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,400 And again, I think that's a really interesting question and 427 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,700 never been asked that before. Well, that's good. 428 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,700 I think actually thinking about it, I think that there is a 429 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:22,800 sense of, I mean, I'm lucky that I can write, I find it easy to 430 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,000 write anywhere, I can write in the back of a cab, or on a bus 431 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,200 or that is at such a skill, but and a gift. 432 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:32,800 But I think that I think that's a very really interesting point 433 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,000 that you make. I think it is. 434 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,200 Important. But when I'm at home, I actually 435 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:37,900 do that. I think you have to, you have 436 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:41,900 to, you have to get up. Yeah, which is a bit, you know, 437 00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,800 not every writer a writer gets up because a lot of writers 438 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,700 write in their PJs or they're dressing gown. 439 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:50,500 I think you need to dress. I think you need to be formal, I 440 00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:50,900 think. Yeah. 441 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:54,300 I mean I would I'd I think that's a. 442 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,400 I think that's very important because you need to be engaged. 443 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,200 I think so. You're not just in your Loro 444 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Piana Kashmir, trakis. I'm not going to tell you. 445 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,200 Fundamentally. Who would you say you dress for? 446 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,100 It depends. Sometimes I dress for no one if 447 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:21,200 I'm out. I think the answer to that if 448 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,000 you respect the social situation, And you respect the 449 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,400 orthodoxes of what you're doing. If I'm going to the cinema, I'm 450 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,400 not going to be as smart as I am. 451 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,900 If I'm coming here or going to the meeting. 452 00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:38,800 I'm going to after this, or I'm going to a lunch, it's like, 453 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,000 okay the answer is you dress for the venue. 454 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,900 So if I'm going to the, if I'm going to Scott or a good 455 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,300 upmarket fancy restaurant, I will dress at that restaurant. 456 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,200 But if I go to my local, Argentinian Cafe. 457 00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:57,700 I'm not I'm probably not going to look like this because you 458 00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:05,300 know Gauchos but interesting in this time of real gender 459 00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:09,500 fluidity. Yeah and I think some brilliant 460 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,800 things going on out there. Are you ever tempted to be a 461 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,000 little bit more experimental, a little bit more feminine? 462 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,900 Even I've done all that, but do it again now that you've got all 463 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:23,700 these, nobody wants to see an old guy do that. 464 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,100 No. But I mean, I, I did. 465 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:30,100 All right, I spent a decade in nightclubs, wearing makeup 466 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:34,000 wearing dresses doing all that stuff and I had a fantastic time 467 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,700 but I don't think my kids want to see me do that. 468 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,800 Probably not. I think, I think kids really do 469 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,400 struggle with them. Their parents, having done. 470 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,900 What they've they are now doing. Don't mean is bad enough if I 471 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:51,700 post something on Instagram that they don't like I literally and 472 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:55,600 NS later, saying, take it Down, you're being ridiculous. 473 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,600 There's like judgmental, I love it. 474 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:07,000 You this sort of Ordinary People awful and what was your view on 475 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,600 the Harry Styles in a dress Vogue cover? 476 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:14,400 Oh, I Harry Styles can do no wrong in my eyes. 477 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400 I think he's a nice person, he's a great person. 478 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:21,300 He's a good pop star. Literally everything about him 479 00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:27,000 is fantastic and I think I know Harry a bit and when I In very 480 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,900 well in the early days. And I saw him recently on 481 00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:33,800 holiday in the summer and I think that there is a test that 482 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,100 most most famous people have arrested develop. 483 00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,100 So if you become famous at 17, you're probably going to stay 17 484 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,400 for the rest of your life because you're surrounded by 485 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,700 people who are treating interesting, mural, and I think 486 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,700 often people who achieve success later in life tend to be more 487 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:57,500 even-handed and more balanced. Because they're not that and 488 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,300 they are not surrounded by sycophants. 489 00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:02,600 However, there are few exceptions and I think he is 490 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:09,300 certainly one because he is such a grounded person and he treats 491 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:12,800 people with respect and yeah, he's a nice guy. 492 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,300 I mean, he deserves his success but the way that he's driven 493 00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:19,000 menswear, it's fantastic. I think a great iconic 494 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:21,500 fantastic. And I think it's rather sad when 495 00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:27,300 he gets criticized as a straight man for I'm wearing a dress and 496 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800 really the whole gender fluidity me too. 497 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,200 I think he there is nothing that he does in that world in terms 498 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,900 of presentation. That is a that is a misstep. 499 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:41,300 I think he's brilliant. Do you have a style icon? 500 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,500 I don't think so. You were talking earlier about 501 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,800 the Hollywood greats. I mean, in terms of a of a 502 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,000 creative person, I think David Bowie remains my sort of 503 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,400 lodestar just because He came into my life at a time when I 504 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:04,100 was very impressionable. And I think he, he returned any 505 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:09,500 sort of investment that we made in him just by being constantly 506 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,500 creative and having an extraordinary public creative 507 00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,000 life. So I'd say it was Bowie, not 508 00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:19,100 necessarily Sartori Lee, but he is the he is the person who's 509 00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:21,300 probably had the most influence on my life. 510 00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:23,500 He must have had so much fun writing that book. 511 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:30,600 It was, it was great fun. Because I, as well as wanting to 512 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,300 immerse myself more in his world because I knew him quite well. 513 00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,900 You wanted. I wanted to to do it 514 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:43,800 respectfully as well as it being very journalistic. 515 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,300 But it was quite difficult because the, I think the reason 516 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:51,500 the book was so successful is that it? 517 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:53,700 Is it because it had 150 voices in. 518 00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:57,800 It wasn't just my voice. it was 150 people who would knew him in 519 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,900 a particular way, or right, his life, and some of those people I 520 00:32:01,908 --> 00:32:05,000 knew very well but not all of them and I think the first 521 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,800 Communication. You have with someone is really 522 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,800 important because I was writing this book just after he died. 523 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,700 So I'm writing to you Amanda and I'm saying you knew David Bowie 524 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:17,500 very. Well, I'd like to interview you 525 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:21,900 for this project what I say to you then it basically makes you 526 00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:25,000 decide whether you're going to stick or twist. 527 00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:28,800 Do I want to do this or do I do? But that first approach was 528 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,200 very, very important and convincing someone that I was 529 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,200 coming from a good place which I was and With Bowie being such a 530 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,700 style icon. Really we you very conscious of 531 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,500 what you will when you met him. Oh God? 532 00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,300 Yeah, yeah, complete. So don't take me through that 533 00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:50,000 process. When was the first time you met 534 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,200 him? First time I met him was in a 535 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,300 house party. I think in Portobello Road 536 00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:59,000 during the port of the, during the Notting Hill, Carnival with 537 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,400 a friend of mine called Cynthia, who worked on absolute 538 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,900 beginners? Who had this party? 539 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:08,200 And as he as he as he walked into this party, I was having my 540 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,100 head shaved over a singer. I thought really. 541 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:20,100 Now now for every subsequent time your course you take a lot 542 00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:24,300 of care and do you remember what you wore that first time that 543 00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:27,200 you will probably not because you had your head over the site? 544 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,000 I remember the first time I met Bryan Ferry which was I've been 545 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,900 at, we'd had this party in a place called lipstick Studios. 546 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,700 Remember lipstick stupidly Bigfoot of photographic Studios 547 00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:42,400 back in the 80s and I was in a, is on a Saturday night. 548 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,600 And I remember I was meant to be interviewing Bryan Ferry in his 549 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,900 management office and the Kings Road, which I think was called 550 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:53,100 EG at the time. But of course I hadn't gone home 551 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,900 so I pitched up to this interview. 552 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,000 Not only, did I not have a recorder but I was still dressed 553 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,400 but and I remember you these trousers. 554 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,400 I was very in the Made For Me by a guy called. 555 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,699 Toby Anderson used to be in Funk politan. 556 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:13,100 He was going through a period of designing clothes with for a 557 00:34:13,107 --> 00:34:16,300 brand called Atlas and he'd made me these trousers. 558 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:20,800 And they were trousers that were kind of made up of swatches. 559 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Yellow that every two inches with a different type of fabric 560 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:26,300 Patchwork. Exactly. 561 00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:28,900 Yeah. And I remember sitting down with 562 00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:33,000 a furious hangover in this office, about to interview. 563 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,600 Brian ferrill, I'd never met before. 564 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:39,900 Who was someone? I also idolized as a boy and he 565 00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:41,500 did. Look at me and I think he was 566 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:43,800 quite disconcerted by my condition. 567 00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:47,300 He looked at my trousers and said, those are the most amazing 568 00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:50,400 trousers I've ever seen and that's all, I remember. 569 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:54,100 Remember anything else? He told, you think he meant it? 570 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:56,600 Okay. No, I don't care. 571 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,700 Turning turning all the way around where now, inhabiting 572 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:07,000 this Ultra digital world and the metaverse. 573 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,100 What's your view in terms of designer clothing on the 574 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,200 metaverse? Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean, 575 00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:21,200 that brands are designing an FTS and clothing to sell. 576 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,700 Great, why not on the matter? But I think it's great. 577 00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:29,300 I think, why not? I think that there are I mean, I 578 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,700 think when people criticize things like this, I think they 579 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:36,700 always criticize it from a commercial point of view, but 580 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:41,000 also people buy clothes and invest in consumer goods for a 581 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,800 for many different reasons. And they usually do it to feel 582 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,500 good. And I think that if you if 583 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:53,100 buying clothes for a mythical person for an avatar or whatever 584 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,600 in a digital space, makes you feel good. 585 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,600 Then, why not, why why shouldn't you do that? 586 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,000 You might The kind of person as acrophobia. 587 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,300 You might not think you're particularly good-looking, or 588 00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:05,100 you might any of these things? I think it's absolutely fine. 589 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:11,500 I mean, does allow a window onto a different world that you 590 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:14,900 might, you know, you're probably may not be able to go and buy a 591 00:36:14,908 --> 00:36:19,100 Dodge Gabbana suit or whatever, but your avatar can wear it. 592 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,600 But also your avatar might display the kind of 593 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,500 characteristics that you don't feel equipped to you, might be 594 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:28,500 more flamboyant. You might be having A completely 595 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,600 different sexual. Like you might be anything and 596 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,600 that's empowering and I think that's great, and it's creative. 597 00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:36,300 Yeah, and and fun. Yeah, we need to find something 598 00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:38,400 to disagree on. We do their weight. 599 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,800 Well, it's not gonna be this one because you brilliantly created 600 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,300 the GQ men of the Year Awards, which I just think was, you 601 00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:48,400 know, really Visionary and clever. 602 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,200 And, you know, coming back to talking about those red carpet 603 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,700 moments. Yeah, how did you decide as 604 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,700 editor what you were going to wear? 605 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,500 Year after year. After year, I usually wore the 606 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:05,600 sponsor. Very good answer. 607 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:07,400 Yeah. I mean AE. 608 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,500 Where the sponsor? But be you want to look good. 609 00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:14,800 But also what you don't want to do is outshine, someone famous. 610 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,300 Yeah you just don't want to do that. 611 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,500 I went to this thing that we're involved with in New York Giants 612 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:25,400 and the host came on, it came on and evening suit. 613 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,100 And black scarf that I will get, he Basically had a big scarf 614 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:32,100 like that and it was like rapped and it's basically saying I'm 615 00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:33,500 here. Hi. 616 00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:35,800 And you don't want to do that. No you don't to do that. 617 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,900 You want to. It's like a never outshine. 618 00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:43,200 The master, I remember old boss of mine said me with giving 619 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,300 advice and he said, don't ya? Someone's in charge so just let 620 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:51,100 them be be in charge and I think when you're surrounded by a lot 621 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:58,600 of very famous people, some of whom have fragile egos, Also 622 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,400 surrounded by all their PR people who have even more 623 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,200 fragile, egos then you just have to be slightly just treat people 624 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,400 with respect. Yes. 625 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:09,600 Yeah I think that's that's so true. 626 00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:14,800 Did you ever use a high-profile event to support a new designer 627 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:21,600 to want to wear a new designer? I would wear, I would always try 628 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,800 and we're young British designers. 629 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,100 If I thought, they were appropriate for me to wear I 630 00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:32,500 mean, there's lots of designers that we championed the that I 631 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:34,100 wouldn't work because I would look ridiculous. 632 00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:36,300 And I think they would think I look ridiculous. 633 00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:37,600 They wouldn't reflect well on them. 634 00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:39,900 I mean, someone like Charles Jeffrey, who makes amazing 635 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:41,100 clothes. I'm not going to waste it 636 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:44,500 because I'm gonna look ridiculous, but I but I love his 637 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,100 stuff and I think he's very, very clever but I would do it to 638 00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:51,400 support several brands or designers like all of the 639 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000 Sweeney where I'd it was something that was more 640 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,700 appropriate. Yeah, I mean you must have been 641 00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:01,600 targeted by Many Brands to wear them, that must have been quite 642 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,500 an. I would imagine there would have 643 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:06,800 been bags. Full of couldn't possibly 644 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,800 confident comment. Now, I don't think you were dyed 645 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,600 the well I tried I tried. Hey ho. 646 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,700 I mean you thing is if you are in that industry and I think 647 00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:21,700 it's the same now as it was then people fall over themselves to 648 00:39:21,707 --> 00:39:25,200 give you stuff and they're basically doing it because it's 649 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,800 a kind of it's a it's a soft bribe. 650 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,800 But but that's business, but I think you're a mug. 651 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,200 If you wear something for commercial reasons, I mean, you 652 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200 wear it with you like it. You know, would you say, you had 653 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,000 a worst fashion moment? Oh God, how long have you got? 654 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,100 Ya, however, long, you've got a few of the things I kept, I 655 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,000 didn't keep much because like, like, like I say most of it was 656 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,600 cut up, but I've kept a few things, I kept my hard times 657 00:39:53,600 --> 00:40:01,800 genes which They wanted them for a viene exhibition in the 80s 658 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:06,600 about four or five years ago. The most remarkable thing about 659 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,300 them was ahead of 28-inch waist. Oh my God. 660 00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:11,500 I know. Imagine tiny. 661 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,400 But then they came back clean because the whole point of 662 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,500 wearing these things that they there's a study stood up on 663 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:20,400 their own didn't a and they came back dry, clean them. 664 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,300 Oh, no dry-cleaning jeans. Did I had I had some old Vivian 665 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:32,000 Westwood pirate top. But the thing that my younger 666 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,000 daughter light more than anything else and now she wears 667 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,800 it was a jacket by Josh Bonnet which is former checked it with 668 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,300 fake fur collar, Talons metal, Talons of the back and it had is 669 00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:49,300 Gigolo on the back, silver plastic, did you keep all, have 670 00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:52,000 you kept through the, through the years? 671 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,500 All of these wonderful. I've seen a lot of them. 672 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:02,100 I I now have a Quite a large Wardrobe full of about 120 suits 673 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:06,000 of which I probably wear for. Well, what do you do with 674 00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:08,000 things? When you've had enough of them? 675 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,400 Do you charity shop? Do you? 676 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,400 I keep them. I'm a terrible order. 677 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600 And do you spring clean your wardrobe. 678 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:21,100 Do you edit and, or is it all in the one wardrobe? 679 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,000 I think that and I think men traditionally are a bit like 680 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,900 this is that I have And I probably have more clothes than 681 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,100 most men. I know most of my friends 682 00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:35,400 anyway, but I tend to wear the same things. 683 00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,800 Yeah, I tend to where there's probably a half a dozen suits, 684 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:44,800 so we're half dozen jackets. I've got, I've got yards of suit 685 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,100 of shirts and I probably wear six of them and they're these 686 00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:53,300 their spread collar, white Tommy Hilfiger shirts because I like 687 00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:56,100 them. So, most of the stuff I have in 688 00:41:56,100 --> 00:41:57,800 my wardrobe, I don't need and do. 689 00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:01,100 When should probably get rid of under the girls, raid it all the 690 00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:03,200 time and but I love that. Don't you do? 691 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,700 It really is one of the last things I got sent GQ was this 692 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:15,200 amazing, Versace robe, really, extravagant black yellow 693 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,300 blockade. It was found that they squabbled 694 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:20,700 over at night with my name on there, but it was so bling, it 695 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,800 was brilliant. They didn't scrub away, stole 696 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,700 it, I mean, I've got no idea where it is. 697 00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,200 I love it. I love the thought of the girls 698 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,800 in these beautiful male clothes. Well, actually I think that's 699 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,700 interesting in Georgia went to a ball recently in Paris and I 700 00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:42,300 love the way that they took. I've given them a lots of old 701 00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:44,500 suits and they wear it in the kind of smoking way. 702 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,800 Oh, but that's a fantastic. And it really elegant, beautiful 703 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,400 tailored suit and they've got height. 704 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,400 Haven't they got girls? Yeah, let's talk about travel. 705 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,700 Do you pay particular attention to? 706 00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:02,100 What your airport look is going to be 2? 707 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,600 Yes, I'd like to say I don't but I do. 708 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:05,900 Yeah. And we're how do you how do you 709 00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:09,700 like to look in the airport in the hope of getting an upgrade 710 00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:15,600 always turn up? You're smart, you're polite and 711 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,000 let's see what happens says the man probably with the gold for 712 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,400 life. Be a card. 713 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,900 I would imagine because you must have done a lot of traveling. 714 00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:28,200 Like like you if we've yeah with II like travel and also So I 715 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,100 always maintained that I did travel a lot. 716 00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:35,800 In fact, I travel a lot, still, but I think it, if you are lucky 717 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,400 enough to do it, it pays dividends because it gives your 718 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,100 work contact. Completely micro micro 719 00:43:42,100 --> 00:43:45,800 completely and Hiroshi in your in a little bubble here and you 720 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,800 think it's actually important but you go over there and it's 721 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,700 not as important. If you think you realize that 722 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:53,900 it's a tiny tiny bubble that you've just burst out of it. 723 00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:56,200 Yeah. Are you I would imagine from 724 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,500 what you've just said about You'll fall favorite suits and 725 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:01,900 your sixth favorite shirt. So you're probably a pretty good 726 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,400 Packer do all of those just go straight into. 727 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,100 I didn't used to be when I used to, when I first got together 728 00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:13,900 with the woman who became my wife, I would I would go on 729 00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:17,400 holiday with at least two suitcases, full of stuff. 730 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,600 I'm never going to work and she still edits will will go on 731 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,000 holiday now. And she said you're not going to 732 00:44:23,008 --> 00:44:24,900 wear that that that that that that. 733 00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:28,700 And so now I'm much better and I can I can Actually go for a 734 00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:30,700 three-week holiday and take hand luggage. 735 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,100 Which brand? Would you say is your guilty 736 00:44:33,100 --> 00:44:35,500 secret? Oh, I've never believed in 737 00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:38,300 guilty Secrets like music, if you like something, you like 738 00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:42,000 just do it. I remember when I joined Conde, 739 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,900 Nast, if I was on the stairs in Vogue house, like 20, odd years 740 00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:50,300 ago, and you, and you met a friend of yours and I'd say I 741 00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:51,900 like your skirt. Where is it from? 742 00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:56,400 And they said a change. They said, time always topped up 743 00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,200 shop, there would be a Picture of embarrassment and pride 744 00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:03,600 embarrassment that they've been caught out shopping cheap and 745 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,500 pride because they bought something that someone had like. 746 00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:09,000 Now I don't think there's any embarrassment at all. 747 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,000 No, not not a trend, and nor should it be. 748 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,300 But if you had to choose one brand to wear for the rest of 749 00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:21,900 your life, what would it be? Well, actually the brand I like, 750 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,100 The most at the moment and the brand that I think is doing 751 00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:31,100 really clever things in mixing form, formality with him with 752 00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:34,300 them. Informality is Brunello 753 00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:39,000 cucinelli. I washing Lee expensive. 754 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,300 Eye-watering losses. But beautiful. 755 00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:45,000 Yeah. And it's very Italian and it's a 756 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,800 bit sort of it. Is it sort of town and country? 757 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:53,800 Yeah, I think. Think that's a really smart way 758 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:54,900 to go. Yeah. 759 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,300 And it's beautifully executed in the finest of Yarns. 760 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,700 And yes, I got some great clothes and actually their 761 00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:06,400 Footwear is really good too and also I think it's the kind of 762 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,100 thing for me who you're going to find this hard to believe, but 763 00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:13,400 I'm over 30 you. It's a kind of thing that you 764 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,700 can wear as a mature man and not feel like you're kind of running 765 00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:19,100 to catch up. Do you have a high Street 766 00:46:19,100 --> 00:46:22,600 favorite? I used to I mean we used to go 767 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,400 when the kids were very young, we would go to stay with the 768 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,700 in-laws, who had a house in Spain, and we would go there two 769 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:33,100 or three times a year. And one of the first things I 770 00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:37,500 would do, I'd go, we go. We make a trip to Zara spend the 771 00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:39,700 minted. This is a terrible thing to say, 772 00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:42,700 not because of the brand, but because of the tool of turnover, 773 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,500 I'd spend 200 euro and I get a load of clothes for all of us 774 00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,300 and they were all fine and we'd wear them for a couple of weeks 775 00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:52,000 and you probably never will And I mean, that's the inherent 776 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,700 problem with fashion and fashion. 777 00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:57,300 Of course, we know that, but I did used to think, when I took 778 00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:01,500 notice of it and Sarah was a really, really good brand and 779 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:07,000 Massimo dutti, it's okay. I think Massimo dutti is 780 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,800 probably trying to do what Brunello cucinelli does. 781 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,100 Well, yes. But I do say that multiples of. 782 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,100 Yeah. Yes. 783 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:20,200 Talking about sustainability. And how fashion is is made you. 784 00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:23,500 Do you ever find yourself thinking about the person that's 785 00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:27,300 actually made your item of clothing that you're putting on? 786 00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:31,300 I think it's impossible not to. Now I remember having these 787 00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:37,100 conversations about 20 years ago and I think we all paid lip 788 00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:40,700 service to it and we all knew it was important but I don't think 789 00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:43,700 any of us really cared or any really knew anything about it, 790 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,000 but I think as we've seen manufacturing change 791 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,800 geographically Over the years, just moving around the somewhere 792 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:59,700 cheaper in terms of instruction. I think it's very difficult not 793 00:47:59,700 --> 00:48:06,200 to The problem is that you're in an industry which has built-in 794 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,200 obsolescence fashion by by its very Nature. 795 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,800 By by dint of what it is is all about obsolescence. 796 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,700 It's in, it's out. Isn't that a problem? 797 00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:21,600 Is that less sofa men's? Do you feel well? 798 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:28,100 Yes, and no because now I would say that menswear is it is as 799 00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:33,200 interesting from an aesthetic point of view, And has as much 800 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,800 variety as women does. So actually I think that as 801 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:42,600 womenswear so I think that I think women's when menswear have 802 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,200 the same faults actually in that respect. 803 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,900 So as menswear has become more ubiquitous and more successful 804 00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:53,100 over the last couple Generations so it's an inherent problem. 805 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,100 I won't ask you the next question then. 806 00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:57,800 Do you have anyone you ever buy vintage? 807 00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:00,100 Well stuff. Yes. 808 00:49:00,300 --> 00:49:03,000 Old stuff. Yeah. 809 00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:04,100 Yeah. I do. 810 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:13,100 Favorite haunts. I like old old sort of belstaff 811 00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:15,500 barber stuff like country stuff. Yeah. 812 00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,300 And where do you? But where do you find that? 813 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,100 There's a brilliant place in. Hey, hail why are we have a 814 00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:24,700 house? It's got a vintage store. 815 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:30,900 Becky Baines face. Which is fantastic, mainly for 816 00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:33,200 women. But they have the of benzene. 817 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,900 I don't really, I'm not a great consumer. 818 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,300 I don't go shopping for clothes. It's it's when you're in a 819 00:49:40,308 --> 00:49:43,400 particular place and you see something, you buy it. 820 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,500 The only time I can remember really doing it that we were in 821 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,800 in on holiday in Rome a couple of years ago and for some 822 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,000 reason, I got the shopping bag and I just spent an absolute 823 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,400 Fortune but pair of who buys pink, trousers on holiday. 824 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,600 You notice I didn't wear those for Today, I'm really glad you 825 00:49:59,607 --> 00:50:03,400 didn't really glad you didn't, you have one item of clothing, 826 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,000 that really means the most to you. 827 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,300 I think that the, I mean, the couple of things I've kept from 828 00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:11,800 the 80s, I mean, that that Vivienne Westwood pirate top, 829 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,900 which is 43 years old. And actually, one of my kids is 830 00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:17,500 going. I don't know where it is. 831 00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:20,500 But yeah, I have some affection for that because it's because 832 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,700 because it is old and I was younger, then, and it was fun. 833 00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:28,400 But I think, uh, I think I wouldn't call it affection but 834 00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:30,600 Things. I like the things I wear all the 835 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,100 time. Yeah. 836 00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:37,300 And I think that nowadays, I'll wear a very smart jacket, or 837 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:40,600 more shirt, some good shoes and a pair of jeans. 838 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:45,800 And I like it's like it's that Hardy perennial like, finding 839 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,800 the perfect pair of jeans, and where is your perfect pair of 840 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,900 jeans from? It's Always Somewhere different, 841 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,800 really? Yeah, I used to love silver tag, 842 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,500 lie, Levi's. And then they changed. 843 00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:01,700 And then you Find another one and then they change and it's 844 00:51:01,700 --> 00:51:05,800 weird because you're because you're one's body changes your 845 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,000 body, you get. So my body is very different 846 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,100 from what it was 10 years ago. So, so not in your 28-inch 847 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,100 waist. Fortunately not so. 848 00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:19,500 I think my life. Sartori Libby, Sartori Lee has 849 00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:22,600 been a constant struggle to find the perfect pair of jeans and 850 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,300 what are you in today. These are Ralph Lauren actually 851 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,200 they only cost 1 million pounds. Actually, I was giving them. 852 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,800 What can I say on that note? Let's go to some quick fire 853 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,500 questions, high-end or High Street, high-end Savile Row or 854 00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,600 off the peg Savile Row. What minimalism? 855 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,200 I knew the answer minimalism will maximalism, why I think a 856 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,000 bit of both actually choked out. I'm going to interrupt you and 857 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,600 tell you a story. I went to a fancy dress party 858 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,800 runs, right? I forgot to ask you about Fancy 859 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,200 dress say, well this is the question about 15 years ago went 860 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,100 to a fancy dress party and some place. 861 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,100 Some private member's Club off the Strand, it was someone's 862 00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:09,200 birthday. Fancy dress, don't remember what 863 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,400 I was wearing. But anyway, there was this guy 864 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,200 who looked ridiculous. You had like a, you know, it's 865 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,000 crazy suit on big shirt. Look mental. 866 00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:21,200 And I said, who if you come as he said, I come as the editor of 867 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:28,900 GQ, oops. And did you tell And who you 868 00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:29,900 were course? I did. 869 00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:32,000 Yeah. And what was his reaction after? 870 00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:35,000 So, minimalism will maximalism both both. 871 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,200 Yeah, but about one awful. Bog off 00. 872 00:52:37,500 --> 00:52:40,100 Buy one get one free. Why would you know, come on 873 00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,700 Crocs cute help you? Oh, no, that's a couple of fence 874 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,700 Sports Luxe or rock and roll. Probably sports like signing 875 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:55,000 Flamel grunge, Glam jeans or chinos jeans trendle style, 876 00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:59,500 style color, and monochrome monochrome, Pattern or plain 877 00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:02,700 plain experimental or uniform uniform. 878 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,500 Cashmere cotton always Kashmir border or editor aren't terrible 879 00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:11,700 order charity show for resale. Probably both actually budgie 880 00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:14,400 Smugglers or board shorts. That's a really personal 881 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,900 question. Well, you're very glad I've 882 00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:19,400 taken out the one about briefs or boxers. 883 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,100 Then I never Budgy Smugglers. So your board short, man. 884 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,000 I mean, budgie Smugglers, when I was much younger and much 885 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,700 thinner, No, no problem but it was the 70s. 886 00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:35,400 Yeah, you know, and finally beanie or Baker, Boy. 887 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,400 Thank you, boy, and one very last question. 888 00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:46,300 At the end of the day, what do you or don't you? 889 00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:50,200 We're in bed again. As naked as the day, you were 890 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:56,600 born Dylan Jones what a treat, and what a pleasure to spend 891 00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,100 this time chatting with you about all things sartorial. 892 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:06,100 Thank you, pleasure. I hope you're enjoying the 893 00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:08,900 podcast. If you are, please leave a 894 00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:12,300 review and hit the Subscribe button, see you next week.