Today, I'm going on a sartorial Journey with journalist and
author, Dylan Jones, Obe Dylan, studied Chelsea School of Art
and then sent Martin School of Art.
He was the award-winning editor of GQ magazine and has won the
British Society of magazine editors editor of the Year
award, a record 11 times. In 2013, he was the recipient of
the mark, Fox her award under his editorship the magazine.
One over 80 Awards, a former editor.
At ID, the face Arena, The Observer and the Sunday Times.
He's a former media columnist for the guardian.
A former columnist for the independent, and is the author
of the Sunday Times. Bestseller, David Bowie alive.
And a New York Times bestseller. Jim Morrison Darkstar, as well
as 25 other books, including his recently published.
Blecch faster than a cannonball, 1995 and all that he was
executive producer of the 2020. BBC, One show Idris Elba meets
Paul McCartney and produced, a four-part series of the 80s for
BBC, Two last Autumn and 2022. He launched a Film Production
Company Beacon films with Maggie Todd from Disney.
I'm exhausted, Dylan. That is the most unbelievable
career to date. So, thank you for making the
time today. Very nice to see You, it's great
to see you too. Really is.
So maybe we should start with what's your earliest sartorial
memory. When did you first realize the
impact of clothes when I was 12 years old?
And like, a lot of people from my generation, I saw David Bowie
on top of the pox and it's when he performed star, man, and it
was a summer, I think of June, or July 1972.
And at that point, top of the pops of probably watched by 12
and a half 13 million people, which is then it was a sort of
25% of the population of the UK. But I think if you were an
impressionable teenager like I was the time you felt that David
Bowie was talking directly to you.
I thought he was talking directly to me and that's a very
important part of that generation, very important part
of pop culture. And David Bowie was introduced
to many people's lives through that through that performance to
two things. The first thing is, I remember
the last time, the last significant conversation I had
with my father before he died, would have been Christmas that
12 13 years ago. And he asked me what I was
doing. And I said, well, Bob line, I'm
doing this book. I'm doing this book on David
Bowie's appearance on top of the pops.
He said, really, and he let me Wang on About this, you know,
and I was talking about the music and the emotional Paul and
the color and the lights and everything, and you let me talk
after about 10 minutes. He said, you do realize we had a
black and white television, don't you?
So. So a lot of this stuff that we
remember from our path is sort of received information, but to
go to your go back to your question, after we'd all seen
that extraordinary performance on top of the pots.
Some people wanted to dress like David Bowie.
Some people wanted to buy his record.
Some people wanted to go and see him in concert.
I wanted his hair. So, a couple of days later I
summoned up called the courage to call around the various, I
think they were called unisex hair salons.
At the time, I was 12 years old, but Brave thing to do it's not
brave but I mean it's an unusual thing to do but a 12 year old
boy. So I call up all these unisex
islands and said, I'd like to come in and have a David Bowie
haircut. And for all the very young
people who are listening to your podcast, obviously at the time,
it he had a shock of Flame flame here, which was very, very
unusual. No one knew what I was talking
about apart from one person, said come in.
So the Saturday sort of ten days later.
I went into this hair shape and with a picture of David Bowie.
Say, I want to look like that a color picture.
Clearly. Yeah.
I said, I want orange hair like that and I had long.
Okay. I like to the shoulder length
hair. That was really thin.
Yeah. And the guy just said not going
to work. It's not going to work.
I see you can use. Is there anything you can do?
So he started cutting and I left the salon looking like Dave Hill
who was in slave. So my first attempt at being
fashionable for the failed dismally, but that was the first
time I understood really the power of fashion and also the
power of a man wearing Wearing clothes that had a very powerful
effect on people. And dude, after you'd had the
hair done, did you? Read the second-hand shops and
try and pull together? The David Bowie, look, not
really. But I think it made me aware.
That clothes were very important.
Plus, we were all reaching the age of puberty girls.
Peer pressure school, and so people were starting to dress in
particular ways anyway. The other thing that people
always forget is that you can't just replicate something because
no one had any money. No.
Exactly. On that.
You would like, you say, you'd go to junk shop so you'd cut
things, you'd wear sparkly socks, you do all these little
things to try and create some kind of look, without look
trying, not to look ridiculous. And we didn't have the benefit
of the High Street and all of the fast fashion labels that the
kids do not Now we had to be a lot more creative back then.
Yeah. And I kind of think we were and
that became even more apparent. Couple of years later when punk
happened, and when that happened, that was again, a
another kind of seismic shop pop culturally, and it overnight,
not overnight over appeared about six months, seriously
change the way that a lot of young people dressed.
Including myself who went from being a sort of long haired lay
about to someone who was at Chelsea, School of Art, around
the corner with short hair and leather jackets, and all that
kind of stuff. You know, I was going to say
when you, then had your major clubbing days from from what I
understand. Do you remember your clubbing?
Looks at the time? Oh, I mean, I mean, I I did a
lot of clubbing, probably too much.
I probably spent 10 years in nightclubs, and yes, I spent a
fortune on clothes. It was all about dressing up.
It was the decade of late, 70s, to late 8, it was all about
dressing up. I wore some, how many
extraordinary things? In fact, I've kept a few things,
most of them, I had a rail at least to live in Brixton, in a
small flat and I had a rail of clothes and I had a bus stop
with my girlfriend 1984, and she still Who had keys that the
flats I came in? Oh no.
Ya know what did she do? Everything?
No, I walked in the flat was not much bigger.
What should you don't? Why don't, why don't we talk
about? It was like twice the size of
this desk, very small bed, rail of clothes, and she'd been there
for like a couple of hours and she's literally cut up
everything Galliano hamnett. Even in our do, all of this
stuff, just cut up as weejun, loafers all it was Bin bags,
full of all. These little I should have kept
the labels. Actually, I was going to say,
did you wear any of the partly Shred?
The only thing that was left was a black ma-1 flying jacket, a
pair of Katherine hamnett trousers, and the local authors
that I was wearing, but I remember about seven six or
seven years ago. I got two daughters 12, 21 ones,
24, and the year, when Georgia my you Younger daughter was
allowed to go to school without wearing a uniform.
Obviously, they all get very, you know, they put a lot of
attention on what they wear to go to school.
So one morning, I'm letting her out of the house and she's I
think 16 And she's wearing black Emma.
One flight jacket. Once his shirt, no, no, it is
all her clothes black with black and then one flying jacket.
White T-shirt, Levi's 501s a logo belt Gucci on it, white
socks and a pair of Oxblood looks loafers.
And I looked at her and I said you're not going to believe this
but in 1986 I was wearing. Exactly same clothes.
She was horrified. Oh but that must You've been
such a cool moment for you and seeing your beautiful daughter
wearing that look, but, in, in a contemporary way.
Well, I thought so, but she, she just thought it was the worst
thing in the world. She was mortified.
So I found a picture that been in a magazine.
And then last night, she came after, and I showed it to, and I
said, look, you said, I look nothing like ridiculous.
And, of course, will you in a school uniform?
Yeah, yeah, my probably was, although, I Got thrown out of
school for not wearing a school uniform.
I seem to remember because I've never thought I'd be D being
particularly interested in clothes.
But looking back in answering your questions.
I think I probably have been, but I remember why I was thrown
out of school because I was wearing, it would have been 75,
Oxford bags, green pinstripe Oxford bags, spoon shoes, a
shirt with a butterfly collar, Little sort of repeated pattern
of a French cafe scene. So you went from this crazy,
clubbing world into the magazine world.
Yeah. How did that impact on your
style? I mean, you must have evolved
your style quite rapidly or not. Not really because for the first
ten years when I was working ID and then the face and Arena you
were working in an environment, which is independent.
Shushing, you were working with the same people.
You were going out with in the evening, it was all about clubs
and music and fashion and style, and what-have-you culture.
So it really changed. When I the beginning of the 90s,
I stopped working magazines and went to work in newspapers and I
just thought this is the this is a different world.
A as a journalist you're not really taking seriously unless
you do work. For paper, at least for a
certain period of time and that's what I always used to
tell the young guys came to work for me.
I said, you've done this, you've had the best training in this
world. Now, you need to go off and do
something in newspapers and I think that's still the case.
And did you have to change your style when you went to work for
newspapers? Then I didn't have to but I
changed but I chose to yeah. So I wore suits.
Yeah. And that's pretty much what I've
worn ever since is a suit dapper.
Delete, I think of you as Dapper Dylan and then so from papers to
Conde Nast, I always think of sort of condé Nast Vogue house.
It's quite a it's quite a hotbed of style as you would imagine it
to be. Did, did that change your style
at all? I don't think.
So. In fact, when we launched about
12 know, 11 years ago, we launched men's week.
Which was quite an exciting thing to do at the time Caroline
Rush see over the BSC in myself launch men's week and for about
four or five years, it was very successful and invariably at the
beginning of fashion week there would be and they'll always
Japanese for some reason they'd be there know what had always be
a couple and they come and want to do an in an interview and
their question would always be. They'd always ask the question
like what's your style regime? Something like this?
And I say, what I get up in the morning, I put a white shirt on
a blue suit pair of black shoes and then I walk to work and they
were invariably disappointed. So, but yeah, I wore suits.
I mean, I suppose what happened is that I migrated to sell 40
because I'd started having suit made for me when I was 24 and
this wasn't out of any particular adherence to style,
it was because in the 80s if you bought a suit Shoot, they were
really boxy, they're all double breasted very boxy and of course
I was skinny and it just looked like someone had thrown a tent
over a been called. So to, actually wear something.
I had to go and get something made.
So I started, I started quite young.
So 24 was when I first started having suits me, who did you go
to them? I went to a man called Jack
each. Yeah.
In Harrow, who made suit for Teddy, boys?
Have fantastic. And it did you go to him in
Harrow? James or, yeah.
And I'd go there and I look like a freak from nightclubs and I
surrounded by all these Teddy, Boys, quite elderly in quite
rough, and it was an experience. And then after that, I went to a
guy called Chris Rocco, in kentish town, who had a tailor
called Phillips, who was an ex-boxer and he made suits, for
Spandau Ballet for Wham, for lots of people, lots of pop
stars time, what George Michael Used to do George.
Michael used to go to this shop in South Molton Street was which
was called bizarre and he used to ask if he can borrow a lot of
clothes with a view to buying something.
So what he would do is he'd borrow all these clothes, you
buy a couple of things to keep them happy and you get any get
Chris, a copy. All this stuff.
No. Yeah it was very much that era
though. It wasn't it?
Yeah. Fantastic.
Whose style would you really reach?
Do you say I'm very conservative?
I I like old school. Cool.
Traditional Hollywood glamour. I think that that's a period
that you can't really beat. It's when it's when traditional
role models were fashionable. And regardless of anyone,
sexuality and it was a, it was formal and it was about dressing
well for a purpose and I like that, I like dressing up things.
Whether it's a charity do or a date or not anymore.
Obviously, But I was going to say they know the wife.
It's a I think that's important. Yeah.
I think that the ability to be individual, these days is
obviously too kind of exponential and it's fantastic
but people have freedom to wear what they like and do what they
like. But I do think that there's a
formality about dressing well, particularly for men, which is
important. I totally agree.
I mean it's interesting you mentioned that because obviously
the I'll and fashion world has evolved hugely hugely, and
you've got sort of celebrities, you know, on the catwalks now to
really intertwined, you've got reality TV stars, they're, you
know, walking, the recent Balenciaga show.
What are your thoughts on that? Um, what on celebrities now
becoming part of the Fashion World?
I think fine. I mean it.
Is that thing is develop its I think that the the red carpet I
was talking about this with my business partner, the other day
as you said, was that he worked for Disney for a very long time
and we're talking about the importance of red carpet.
The thing is, if you have a good red carpet event, that's your
marketing campaign. Now, you don't need anything
else, and you actually don't need to employ photographers,
either need a red carpet event and you have Instagram, and
that's kind of it. And that's your That's your
marketing. What do I think about it?
I'm not sure. I think it's just a natural.
Evolution of the way that various Industries have changed,
its the introduction of new technologies into this world.
And in some respects, it's made Commerce e, easier it's made,
publicity easier. And I, and working having spent
a lot of time working with young designers, young designers, who
would Bust a gut in spend every penny they had in order to put
on a fashion show. In fact often I would say don't
do a show. Yeah just put it into your
business. You don't need a shirt.
Yeah but obviously they're very proud and they wanted to be part
of the whole system but even though it's tougher now for
younger designers, I think that things like Instagram, social
media, and general have enabled them to to to use media in a
different and cheaper way. And that's good.
It is, I think That's great. I mean, and can I just quickly
ask you, Kanye West, we sent goings-on.
Well, everything that I've read is appalling and everything that
I've read, totally negates, anything that he's done before.
I mean, I can't say because I haven't heard him say these
things to me, but everything that has been mediated so far,
leads me to think that this is a side of his personality, the
ugly side of his personality, which like, I say, Kind of
negates any amazing creativity that he possesses.
Yes, it's a shame, isn't it? It's a terrible shame.
Yeah, just talking about male artists musicians.
Creatives if you could pick three, who would you consider to
be the most stylish or inspirational performers before
most creatives? I think that Bowie we've already
talked about. I think that Harry Styles is
really carrying the flag Big. But also I think you can't
ignore someone like me. Jagger Mick.
Jagger was cool in his teens, his 20th, pretty much.
Every decade I took my daughter to see the stones in the summer
last last year. And they'd never seen them
before and they just thought it was one of the best concerts
I've ever seen principally. Because of his Jag has energy
and the fact that you're very comfortable and I think in order
to be stylish particularly, if you're a performer, you Have to
be comfortable if you're not comfortable.
You just look like someone's giving you some stuff to wear.
Yes. I've always felt very strongly.
You've got to really own your clothes and if you don't you
feel uncomfortable and people around, you feel uncomfortable?
Yeah, I mean someone like Someone like Jay Z has that
confidence. Yes we did an event with him
once again and he was just very very cool and I think it's that
thing that cool is such a commodity these days.
And actually it's that goes back to that whole thing.
You've got it or you haven't got it.
Yeah. You can't buy it.
Can you? Well, we are in it in an
industry. Where You can buy it, but it
doesn't always work. Yeah.
That's the point. Anyone who you look at that, you
think, or that's really not working.
That's really try too hard. Yeah, like, you're not going to
be drawn on that. No, I mean, I think a lot of, a
lot of entertainers, a lot of pop stars.
Dressed. But I mean, I think I remember
when we shot Ed Sheeran for the cover of GQ years ago, and I
said we were going to do this and the, the features team just
looked at me. Like, I was an idiot.
This is, there's no way you can make him look cool.
And actually, I think, I think we did in the end, but I'm not
sure to what great aim because he's because he's thing is
looking like Oscar, isn't it? Yeah.
So, you know, yeah. But he owns that.
Yeah, yeah, it's quite a lot. That's why it's you're right
there. You're right.
They're coming back to Brands and Tailors and who are you
really rating on Savile Row right now?
Because I think Savile Row is this glorious Global Hub, of
brilliant, craftsmanship and skill.
And I I just don't think there's anywhere like it in the world.
And I'd be really interested to hear your opinion because you
have been so immersed. First in the men's style world
for the last several decades. Well, I think that now, even
though covid has has thrown up so many challenges, not least
because it's made it impossible for people to do trunk shows,
which is where they make a lot of their money.
As you know, I actually think that there's more of a Level
Playing Field. Now, in several Rosen, has ever
been before and I think the issue now is Team trade back, I
mean, during during freeze week because of the dollar London was
Awash with Americans that it felt like some sort of semblance
of normalcy, but it, but it has been challenging.
But even 20 years ago, I think there were such a sort of clash
between old-school Savile Row and the and, and the new boys
like Oswald. And Richard James, I don't think
that's the case anymore. Be more and I think and I think
it's possible to have a really genuine traditional Savile Row
experience whether you whether you're in Anderson a Shepherd or
Richard James or Oswald or ever. I mean, I don't think there's a
person I know on Savile Row, whoo-hoo a I don't like and be I
don't have any respect for They all work, fantastically hard,
they're all really good at their jobs and they're and they're all
not the last Bastion because I think there's been a certain
amount of regeneration but they are flying a flag British
craftsmanship and creativity which I think is fantastic.
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.
I think it's absolutely wonderful.
I always think of you as Dapper Dylan.
When do you feel that that you're you really nailed your
Your look that you have. Now I think through I just think
through repetition and I think that if you are in the media and
you're visible, I think you need a certain kind of look just to
for recognition. See if you and you do TV and
stuff. And and so I tended to look the
same, I tended to wear things which Were very very similar
because I think you kind of confuse people.
And also if you're representing a brand which I was that brand
very much felt like I suppose I tried to dress like the brand.
Yeah. Which is navy blue suit white
shirt. I mean it's not very interesting
but I think it's the way you do it.
It I was going to say it is is the detail, isn't it?
The devils in the detail. Your beautiful pocket scarf that
you've got on the first day. You didn't go into Vogue house.
Yeah. Do you remember what you put on
that morning? Well, it would have been a you
talking about covid because because the thing is, we had, I
left, we had covid, we had locked down and then I sort of
left Conde Nast a year after that.
So the thing is, we were already conditioned to not working and
dressing in a particular way and I think that helped in many
respects because I think that we have a house in Wales and, yes,
it can be. Yeah.
And I think the tendency there is to kind of go Farrell You
know, it's like I cannot imagine a feral Dylan.
What does a feral? Dylan look like in Wales, I'd be
fascinated to know. What is it?
That? Is it, the Tweed version that
I'm seeing two, I don't hear a bad person.
I don't, I don't dress up and I don't think I dress up in
London. I think I have a uniform, but in
the country it's everything's about practicality.
You know, this, it's about you where the the clothes that are
Appropriate for what you're doing, whether you're chopping
wood or going for a walk, so no Kashmir.
Okay, yeah. Got quite a catch me, got you,
got you, and do you have a writing uniform?
Do you have something not a uniform?
But something that you put on when you say, okay, I'm going to
really focus on writing today, which you do obviously a lot.
But is there something that you feel?
You have that sort of you come back to again.
And again, I think that's a really interesting question and
never been asked that before. Well, that's good.
I think actually thinking about it, I think that there is a
sense of, I mean, I'm lucky that I can write, I find it easy to
write anywhere, I can write in the back of a cab, or on a bus
or that is at such a skill, but and a gift.
But I think that I think that's a very really interesting point
that you make. I think it is.
Important. But when I'm at home, I actually
do that. I think you have to, you have
to, you have to get up. Yeah, which is a bit, you know,
not every writer a writer gets up because a lot of writers
write in their PJs or they're dressing gown.
I think you need to dress. I think you need to be formal, I
think. Yeah.
I mean I would I'd I think that's a.
I think that's very important because you need to be engaged.
I think so. You're not just in your Loro
Piana Kashmir, trakis. I'm not going to tell you.
Fundamentally. Who would you say you dress for?
It depends. Sometimes I dress for no one if
I'm out. I think the answer to that if
you respect the social situation, And you respect the
orthodoxes of what you're doing. If I'm going to the cinema, I'm
not going to be as smart as I am.
If I'm coming here or going to the meeting.
I'm going to after this, or I'm going to a lunch, it's like,
okay the answer is you dress for the venue.
So if I'm going to the, if I'm going to Scott or a good
upmarket fancy restaurant, I will dress at that restaurant.
But if I go to my local, Argentinian Cafe.
I'm not I'm probably not going to look like this because you
know Gauchos but interesting in this time of real gender
fluidity. Yeah and I think some brilliant
things going on out there. Are you ever tempted to be a
little bit more experimental, a little bit more feminine?
Even I've done all that, but do it again now that you've got all
these, nobody wants to see an old guy do that.
No. But I mean, I, I did.
All right, I spent a decade in nightclubs, wearing makeup
wearing dresses doing all that stuff and I had a fantastic time
but I don't think my kids want to see me do that.
Probably not. I think, I think kids really do
struggle with them. Their parents, having done.
What they've they are now doing. Don't mean is bad enough if I
post something on Instagram that they don't like I literally and
NS later, saying, take it Down, you're being ridiculous.
There's like judgmental, I love it.
You this sort of Ordinary People awful and what was your view on
the Harry Styles in a dress Vogue cover?
Oh, I Harry Styles can do no wrong in my eyes.
I think he's a nice person, he's a great person.
He's a good pop star. Literally everything about him
is fantastic and I think I know Harry a bit and when I In very
well in the early days. And I saw him recently on
holiday in the summer and I think that there is a test that
most most famous people have arrested develop.
So if you become famous at 17, you're probably going to stay 17
for the rest of your life because you're surrounded by
people who are treating interesting, mural, and I think
often people who achieve success later in life tend to be more
even-handed and more balanced. Because they're not that and
they are not surrounded by sycophants.
However, there are few exceptions and I think he is
certainly one because he is such a grounded person and he treats
people with respect and yeah, he's a nice guy.
I mean, he deserves his success but the way that he's driven
menswear, it's fantastic. I think a great iconic
fantastic. And I think it's rather sad when
he gets criticized as a straight man for I'm wearing a dress and
really the whole gender fluidity me too.
I think he there is nothing that he does in that world in terms
of presentation. That is a that is a misstep.
I think he's brilliant. Do you have a style icon?
I don't think so. You were talking earlier about
the Hollywood greats. I mean, in terms of a of a
creative person, I think David Bowie remains my sort of
lodestar just because He came into my life at a time when I
was very impressionable. And I think he, he returned any
sort of investment that we made in him just by being constantly
creative and having an extraordinary public creative
life. So I'd say it was Bowie, not
necessarily Sartori Lee, but he is the he is the person who's
probably had the most influence on my life.
He must have had so much fun writing that book.
It was, it was great fun. Because I, as well as wanting to
immerse myself more in his world because I knew him quite well.
You wanted. I wanted to to do it
respectfully as well as it being very journalistic.
But it was quite difficult because the, I think the reason
the book was so successful is that it?
Is it because it had 150 voices in.
It wasn't just my voice. it was 150 people who would knew him in
a particular way, or right, his life, and some of those people I
knew very well but not all of them and I think the first
Communication. You have with someone is really
important because I was writing this book just after he died.
So I'm writing to you Amanda and I'm saying you knew David Bowie
very. Well, I'd like to interview you
for this project what I say to you then it basically makes you
decide whether you're going to stick or twist.
Do I want to do this or do I do? But that first approach was
very, very important and convincing someone that I was
coming from a good place which I was and With Bowie being such a
style icon. Really we you very conscious of
what you will when you met him. Oh God?
Yeah, yeah, complete. So don't take me through that
process. When was the first time you met
him? First time I met him was in a
house party. I think in Portobello Road
during the port of the, during the Notting Hill, Carnival with
a friend of mine called Cynthia, who worked on absolute
beginners? Who had this party?
And as he as he as he walked into this party, I was having my
head shaved over a singer. I thought really.
Now now for every subsequent time your course you take a lot
of care and do you remember what you wore that first time that
you will probably not because you had your head over the site?
I remember the first time I met Bryan Ferry which was I've been
at, we'd had this party in a place called lipstick Studios.
Remember lipstick stupidly Bigfoot of photographic Studios
back in the 80s and I was in a, is on a Saturday night.
And I remember I was meant to be interviewing Bryan Ferry in his
management office and the Kings Road, which I think was called
EG at the time. But of course I hadn't gone home
so I pitched up to this interview.
Not only, did I not have a recorder but I was still dressed
but and I remember you these trousers.
I was very in the Made For Me by a guy called.
Toby Anderson used to be in Funk politan.
He was going through a period of designing clothes with for a
brand called Atlas and he'd made me these trousers.
And they were trousers that were kind of made up of swatches.
Yellow that every two inches with a different type of fabric
Patchwork. Exactly.
Yeah. And I remember sitting down with
a furious hangover in this office, about to interview.
Brian ferrill, I'd never met before.
Who was someone? I also idolized as a boy and he
did. Look at me and I think he was
quite disconcerted by my condition.
He looked at my trousers and said, those are the most amazing
trousers I've ever seen and that's all, I remember.
Remember anything else? He told, you think he meant it?
Okay. No, I don't care.
Turning turning all the way around where now, inhabiting
this Ultra digital world and the metaverse.
What's your view in terms of designer clothing on the
metaverse? Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean,
that brands are designing an FTS and clothing to sell.
Great, why not on the matter? But I think it's great.
I think, why not? I think that there are I mean, I
think when people criticize things like this, I think they
always criticize it from a commercial point of view, but
also people buy clothes and invest in consumer goods for a
for many different reasons. And they usually do it to feel
good. And I think that if you if
buying clothes for a mythical person for an avatar or whatever
in a digital space, makes you feel good.
Then, why not, why why shouldn't you do that?
You might The kind of person as acrophobia.
You might not think you're particularly good-looking, or
you might any of these things? I think it's absolutely fine.
I mean, does allow a window onto a different world that you
might, you know, you're probably may not be able to go and buy a
Dodge Gabbana suit or whatever, but your avatar can wear it.
But also your avatar might display the kind of
characteristics that you don't feel equipped to you, might be
more flamboyant. You might be having A completely
different sexual. Like you might be anything and
that's empowering and I think that's great, and it's creative.
Yeah, and and fun. Yeah, we need to find something
to disagree on. We do their weight.
Well, it's not gonna be this one because you brilliantly created
the GQ men of the Year Awards, which I just think was, you
know, really Visionary and clever.
And, you know, coming back to talking about those red carpet
moments. Yeah, how did you decide as
editor what you were going to wear?
Year after year. After year, I usually wore the
sponsor. Very good answer.
Yeah. I mean AE.
Where the sponsor? But be you want to look good.
But also what you don't want to do is outshine, someone famous.
Yeah you just don't want to do that.
I went to this thing that we're involved with in New York Giants
and the host came on, it came on and evening suit.
And black scarf that I will get, he Basically had a big scarf
like that and it was like rapped and it's basically saying I'm
here. Hi.
And you don't want to do that. No you don't to do that.
You want to. It's like a never outshine.
The master, I remember old boss of mine said me with giving
advice and he said, don't ya? Someone's in charge so just let
them be be in charge and I think when you're surrounded by a lot
of very famous people, some of whom have fragile egos, Also
surrounded by all their PR people who have even more
fragile, egos then you just have to be slightly just treat people
with respect. Yes.
Yeah I think that's that's so true.
Did you ever use a high-profile event to support a new designer
to want to wear a new designer? I would wear, I would always try
and we're young British designers.
If I thought, they were appropriate for me to wear I
mean, there's lots of designers that we championed the that I
wouldn't work because I would look ridiculous.
And I think they would think I look ridiculous.
They wouldn't reflect well on them.
I mean, someone like Charles Jeffrey, who makes amazing
clothes. I'm not going to waste it
because I'm gonna look ridiculous, but I but I love his
stuff and I think he's very, very clever but I would do it to
support several brands or designers like all of the
Sweeney where I'd it was something that was more
appropriate. Yeah, I mean you must have been
targeted by Many Brands to wear them, that must have been quite
an. I would imagine there would have
been bags. Full of couldn't possibly
confident comment. Now, I don't think you were dyed
the well I tried I tried. Hey ho.
I mean you thing is if you are in that industry and I think
it's the same now as it was then people fall over themselves to
give you stuff and they're basically doing it because it's
a kind of it's a it's a soft bribe.
But but that's business, but I think you're a mug.
If you wear something for commercial reasons, I mean, you
wear it with you like it. You know, would you say, you had
a worst fashion moment? Oh God, how long have you got?
Ya, however, long, you've got a few of the things I kept, I
didn't keep much because like, like, like I say most of it was
cut up, but I've kept a few things, I kept my hard times
genes which They wanted them for a viene exhibition in the 80s
about four or five years ago. The most remarkable thing about
them was ahead of 28-inch waist. Oh my God.
I know. Imagine tiny.
But then they came back clean because the whole point of
wearing these things that they there's a study stood up on
their own didn't a and they came back dry, clean them.
Oh, no dry-cleaning jeans. Did I had I had some old Vivian
Westwood pirate top. But the thing that my younger
daughter light more than anything else and now she wears
it was a jacket by Josh Bonnet which is former checked it with
fake fur collar, Talons metal, Talons of the back and it had is
Gigolo on the back, silver plastic, did you keep all, have
you kept through the, through the years?
All of these wonderful. I've seen a lot of them.
I I now have a Quite a large Wardrobe full of about 120 suits
of which I probably wear for. Well, what do you do with
things? When you've had enough of them?
Do you charity shop? Do you?
I keep them. I'm a terrible order.
And do you spring clean your wardrobe.
Do you edit and, or is it all in the one wardrobe?
I think that and I think men traditionally are a bit like
this is that I have And I probably have more clothes than
most men. I know most of my friends
anyway, but I tend to wear the same things.
Yeah, I tend to where there's probably a half a dozen suits,
so we're half dozen jackets. I've got, I've got yards of suit
of shirts and I probably wear six of them and they're these
their spread collar, white Tommy Hilfiger shirts because I like
them. So, most of the stuff I have in
my wardrobe, I don't need and do.
When should probably get rid of under the girls, raid it all the
time and but I love that. Don't you do?
It really is one of the last things I got sent GQ was this
amazing, Versace robe, really, extravagant black yellow
blockade. It was found that they squabbled
over at night with my name on there, but it was so bling, it
was brilliant. They didn't scrub away, stole
it, I mean, I've got no idea where it is.
I love it. I love the thought of the girls
in these beautiful male clothes. Well, actually I think that's
interesting in Georgia went to a ball recently in Paris and I
love the way that they took. I've given them a lots of old
suits and they wear it in the kind of smoking way.
Oh, but that's a fantastic. And it really elegant, beautiful
tailored suit and they've got height.
Haven't they got girls? Yeah, let's talk about travel.
Do you pay particular attention to?
What your airport look is going to be 2?
Yes, I'd like to say I don't but I do.
Yeah. And we're how do you how do you
like to look in the airport in the hope of getting an upgrade
always turn up? You're smart, you're polite and
let's see what happens says the man probably with the gold for
life. Be a card.
I would imagine because you must have done a lot of traveling.
Like like you if we've yeah with II like travel and also So I
always maintained that I did travel a lot.
In fact, I travel a lot, still, but I think it, if you are lucky
enough to do it, it pays dividends because it gives your
work contact. Completely micro micro
completely and Hiroshi in your in a little bubble here and you
think it's actually important but you go over there and it's
not as important. If you think you realize that
it's a tiny tiny bubble that you've just burst out of it.
Yeah. Are you I would imagine from
what you've just said about You'll fall favorite suits and
your sixth favorite shirt. So you're probably a pretty good
Packer do all of those just go straight into.
I didn't used to be when I used to, when I first got together
with the woman who became my wife, I would I would go on
holiday with at least two suitcases, full of stuff.
I'm never going to work and she still edits will will go on
holiday now. And she said you're not going to
wear that that that that that that.
And so now I'm much better and I can I can Actually go for a
three-week holiday and take hand luggage.
Which brand? Would you say is your guilty
secret? Oh, I've never believed in
guilty Secrets like music, if you like something, you like
just do it. I remember when I joined Conde,
Nast, if I was on the stairs in Vogue house, like 20, odd years
ago, and you, and you met a friend of yours and I'd say I
like your skirt. Where is it from?
And they said a change. They said, time always topped up
shop, there would be a Picture of embarrassment and pride
embarrassment that they've been caught out shopping cheap and
pride because they bought something that someone had like.
Now I don't think there's any embarrassment at all.
No, not not a trend, and nor should it be.
But if you had to choose one brand to wear for the rest of
your life, what would it be? Well, actually the brand I like,
The most at the moment and the brand that I think is doing
really clever things in mixing form, formality with him with
them. Informality is Brunello
cucinelli. I washing Lee expensive.
Eye-watering losses. But beautiful.
Yeah. And it's very Italian and it's a
bit sort of it. Is it sort of town and country?
Yeah, I think. Think that's a really smart way
to go. Yeah.
And it's beautifully executed in the finest of Yarns.
And yes, I got some great clothes and actually their
Footwear is really good too and also I think it's the kind of
thing for me who you're going to find this hard to believe, but
I'm over 30 you. It's a kind of thing that you
can wear as a mature man and not feel like you're kind of running
to catch up. Do you have a high Street
favorite? I used to I mean we used to go
when the kids were very young, we would go to stay with the
in-laws, who had a house in Spain, and we would go there two
or three times a year. And one of the first things I
would do, I'd go, we go. We make a trip to Zara spend the
minted. This is a terrible thing to say,
not because of the brand, but because of the tool of turnover,
I'd spend 200 euro and I get a load of clothes for all of us
and they were all fine and we'd wear them for a couple of weeks
and you probably never will And I mean, that's the inherent
problem with fashion and fashion.
Of course, we know that, but I did used to think, when I took
notice of it and Sarah was a really, really good brand and
Massimo dutti, it's okay. I think Massimo dutti is
probably trying to do what Brunello cucinelli does.
Well, yes. But I do say that multiples of.
Yeah. Yes.
Talking about sustainability. And how fashion is is made you.
Do you ever find yourself thinking about the person that's
actually made your item of clothing that you're putting on?
I think it's impossible not to. Now I remember having these
conversations about 20 years ago and I think we all paid lip
service to it and we all knew it was important but I don't think
any of us really cared or any really knew anything about it,
but I think as we've seen manufacturing change
geographically Over the years, just moving around the somewhere
cheaper in terms of instruction. I think it's very difficult not
to The problem is that you're in an industry which has built-in
obsolescence fashion by by its very Nature.
By by dint of what it is is all about obsolescence.
It's in, it's out. Isn't that a problem?
Is that less sofa men's? Do you feel well?
Yes, and no because now I would say that menswear is it is as
interesting from an aesthetic point of view, And has as much
variety as women does. So actually I think that as
womenswear so I think that I think women's when menswear have
the same faults actually in that respect.
So as menswear has become more ubiquitous and more successful
over the last couple Generations so it's an inherent problem.
I won't ask you the next question then.
Do you have anyone you ever buy vintage?
Well stuff. Yes.
Old stuff. Yeah.
I do.
Favorite haunts. I like old old sort of belstaff
barber stuff like country stuff. Yeah.
And where do you? But where do you find that?
There's a brilliant place in. Hey, hail why are we have a
house? It's got a vintage store.
Becky Baines face. Which is fantastic, mainly for
women. But they have the of benzene.
I don't really, I'm not a great consumer.
I don't go shopping for clothes. It's it's when you're in a
particular place and you see something, you buy it.
The only time I can remember really doing it that we were in
in on holiday in Rome a couple of years ago and for some
reason, I got the shopping bag and I just spent an absolute
Fortune but pair of who buys pink, trousers on holiday.
You notice I didn't wear those for Today, I'm really glad you
didn't really glad you didn't, you have one item of clothing,
that really means the most to you.
I think that the, I mean, the couple of things I've kept from
the 80s, I mean, that that Vivienne Westwood pirate top,
which is 43 years old. And actually, one of my kids is
going. I don't know where it is.
But yeah, I have some affection for that because it's because
because it is old and I was younger, then, and it was fun.
But I think, uh, I think I wouldn't call it affection but
Things. I like the things I wear all the
time. Yeah.
And I think that nowadays, I'll wear a very smart jacket, or
more shirt, some good shoes and a pair of jeans.
And I like it's like it's that Hardy perennial like, finding
the perfect pair of jeans, and where is your perfect pair of
jeans from? It's Always Somewhere different,
really? Yeah, I used to love silver tag,
lie, Levi's. And then they changed.
And then you Find another one and then they change and it's
weird because you're because you're one's body changes your
body, you get. So my body is very different
from what it was 10 years ago. So, so not in your 28-inch
waist. Fortunately not so.
I think my life. Sartori Libby, Sartori Lee has
been a constant struggle to find the perfect pair of jeans and
what are you in today. These are Ralph Lauren actually
they only cost 1 million pounds. Actually, I was giving them.
What can I say on that note? Let's go to some quick fire
questions, high-end or High Street, high-end Savile Row or
off the peg Savile Row. What minimalism?
I knew the answer minimalism will maximalism, why I think a
bit of both actually choked out. I'm going to interrupt you and
tell you a story. I went to a fancy dress party
runs, right? I forgot to ask you about Fancy
dress say, well this is the question about 15 years ago went
to a fancy dress party and some place.
Some private member's Club off the Strand, it was someone's
birthday. Fancy dress, don't remember what
I was wearing. But anyway, there was this guy
who looked ridiculous. You had like a, you know, it's
crazy suit on big shirt. Look mental.
And I said, who if you come as he said, I come as the editor of
GQ, oops. And did you tell And who you
were course? I did.
Yeah. And what was his reaction after?
So, minimalism will maximalism both both.
Yeah, but about one awful. Bog off 00.
Buy one get one free. Why would you know, come on
Crocs cute help you? Oh, no, that's a couple of fence
Sports Luxe or rock and roll. Probably sports like signing
Flamel grunge, Glam jeans or chinos jeans trendle style,
style color, and monochrome monochrome, Pattern or plain
plain experimental or uniform uniform.
Cashmere cotton always Kashmir border or editor aren't terrible
order charity show for resale. Probably both actually budgie
Smugglers or board shorts. That's a really personal
question. Well, you're very glad I've
taken out the one about briefs or boxers.
Then I never Budgy Smugglers. So your board short, man.
I mean, budgie Smugglers, when I was much younger and much
thinner, No, no problem but it was the 70s.
Yeah, you know, and finally beanie or Baker, Boy.
Thank you, boy, and one very last question.
At the end of the day, what do you or don't you?
We're in bed again. As naked as the day, you were
born Dylan Jones what a treat, and what a pleasure to spend
this time chatting with you about all things sartorial.
Thank you, pleasure. I hope you're enjoying the
podcast. If you are, please leave a
review and hit the Subscribe button, see you next week.