Welcome to Style DNA, the podcast I created to uncover the
lives behind the looks of your favorite well known faces and
help unveil their style DNA. As a designer, I've always been
inspired by the premise that wearing the right pieces should
make you feel the best version of yourself, gorgeous and
confident, and that these pieces should be designed and crafted
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special treat for listeners. Today, I'm going on a style
journey with singer-songwriter and musician Corinne Bailey Rae.
Corinne shot to stardom with herself, titled Corinne Bailey
Rae Debut album in 2006, featuring the global hits Put
Your Records On and Like a Star. Since then she's won multiple
awards including Grammys and mobos, alongside nominations for
Britain BET Awards. Her second album, The Sea in
2010 was nominated for the prestigious Mercury Music Prize,
while her third studio album, The Heart Speaks and Whispers
was released in 2016 to worldwide acclaim.
In 2023 she released her 4th studio album Black Rainbows, a
truly remarkable piece of work which is the result of a several
years long conversation between Corinne and the objects and
happenings in the Stony Island Arts Bank, Chicago.
The album has received critical acclaim globally.
Reviewers have been hailing it as Bailey Ray's career best work
and have embraced the eclectic, genre bending album as an
indisputably one of the finest albums of 2023.
Corinne is currently touring the UK before heading on to tour in
Europe and the rest of the world.
Hello and welcome. Hi.
Thanks so much for having. Oh, it's wonderful, wonderful to
have you here because you're performing in London as of
tomorrow night. Yes, that's right.
We have 3/3 shows in London and then we're going on to Europe.
And then at the end of the European Tour, we now have China
and the Philippines. Amazing.
We're looking forward to as well.
Fantastic. Congratulations on the new
album. It is extraordinary.
I mean, I'm a long time fan. I have to, you know, put my hand
up there, but I've really loved listening to it, especially
whilst preparing for this interview.
And as a creative, I'm always fascinated by where other
creatives get their inspiration from and and reading into what
where your inspiration came from for this album, I'd I'd love to
hear it in your words. I felt with this album that so
much of the inspiration came through looking.
You know, sometimes when you make a record, people say, who
have you been listening to you to?
What's your inspiration? But in this case, I was looking
online at a friend's Pinterest board, actually in 2017, and I
saw this photograph of Theaster Gates.
I didn't know it was him, but was Theaster Gates, the visual
artist who had the Serpentine Pavilion last year in in London?
And he was standing in front of all this weird art, this
contemporary art, and it was white cube.
But he had this expression on his face which was so relaxed
and confident. And I thought, who is this man?
And specifically, who is this black man who's standing in
front of what I thought was a very strange contemporary art?
You know, it's not figurative art.
It's not paintings of people. It's a pile of bricks and a
sculpture of a goat and a Harold's Chicken Shop sign.
I thought, who is he? And I researched him and found
out that he's based in Chicago and part of his practice is
finding buildings that are about to be taken down, torn down,
destroyed by the city because they can't be maintained.
And he buys these buildings and he's and he saves them for art
and for the community. So he had, he had saved this
arts bank. He saved this bank from being
demolished. It was for It's a Bank from 1923
in Chicago on the South Side. Which is a really underserved
community, you know, I guess nobody says rundown or poor
these days, but it's a challenged area.
It has these housing problems, mental health problems, drug,
drug addiction, violence, you know, all those things that go
together to make an area really struggle.
And in the heart of it is this amazing bank which would would
have been torn down by the city. He saved it.
He bought it for a dollar. He raised $4 million by selling
his own artwork. And now, instead of being full
of money, it's full of all these incredible artworks.
When I walked in, I saw a sound suit by Nick Cave on the wall.
I saw Theaster's own work. I saw pieces from local Chicago
artists. But it also contains archive, so
it has all the books that were ever given to the Johnson
Publishing Company. He did Ebony magazine and Jet
magazine. So kind of Life magazine for
black people. And the books have been
collected since 1942, and they're on the widest range of
subjects. You can imagine 26,000 books in
this library, everything from Ethiopian rock churches, mask
dance, autobiographies, recipe books, stories of the black
pioneers going West in America in the 1850s.
Really specific things as well. And then it has all the Frankie
Knuckles records, so when he passed away they were given to
the Arts Bank as well. So just reams and reams of house
music, you know, vinyl. It also has all the glass slides
from Chicago University. So when they digitize their
archive, I guess they gave them to the bank.
And so you're looking at, you know, the most famous works at
the Louvre or Picasso paintings or, you know, Egyptian temples
and structures. And so that that's incredible.
And then on the highest floor up, it has these difficult
objects from America's past these.
Problematic, you know, racist objects that were collected by
this black and Chinese banker called Ed Williams who would go
to flea markets and yard sales and find this stuff.
You know, mommy jars, postcards, newspaper articles, photographs,
you know, cartoonish images of black people.
And he would collect them just to take them out of circulation.
So he would have boxes and boxes of these things in this House.
And he ended up giving his collection, which is 16,000
objects to the arts bank so they can, I guess, work out how to
show them and how to store them. So it's a really fascinating
place. So when I toured in Chicago, I
end up meeting up with Theaster and he showed me around this
bank and it's stunning. You know, it's this Greek O
Roman. You know, it's column building.
Yeah, it's beautiful in itself. And then, you know, it's a
contrast with what's happening outside because it's this
underserved community. And there's this, you know, the
double height library with those iron, you know, stairs that can
go up to the the top floors. And it was just beautiful to be
around in such kind of beautiful, elegant elevated
space, but also around all this black archive.
I think I've been to grand libraries where I might read,
you know, an original copy of Virginia Woolf or sit and read
Marlow or Shakespeare. But to be reading in the Black
Archive in a place like that, that was my first experience of
it. And to be around that volume of
literature, I just really couldn't believe.
I guess I wasn't aware that there were that many books on
these black subjects. Perhaps growing up, I might have
had these questions about specific things I've been told.
Oh, that wasn't written down. Oh, there's only oral tradition
here. Maybe it's been lost to the
sands of time. Or there's only hearsay.
And to be around all these books and find these photos and
evidence and documents, and it was really fascinating.
And someone who's interested in history just to be able to sit
and read. And did that just ignite all
your synapses? Absolutely.
I found when I left that I was just thinking about the bank.
I was thinking about photos. I was pulling up in drawers and
finding these little precious black dolls wrapped in tissue
paper. Who made them?
When were they made? Who had them?
What's their story? How old are they?
Was finding a photograph of a little 12 year old girl you know
going West, a black girl going West with the white family
thinking. What's her story?
What happened to her? Is there any documents?
Is there any evidence or. Or then just seeing the sort of
glamorous and fabulous things in Ebony magazine, you know, that I
wasn't aware of. I'd seen so many images of maybe
the civil rights movement, you know, so there's a lot of
weight, seriousness, you know, heavy politics.
But to be around the kind of 1950s glamour, black glamour,
the black middle class in America, which was huge and.
You know that I wasn't aware on to have it so well documented in
Life magazine and and find out, you know, who's putting on
exhibitions and the swing coats on the hairstyles.
It was just really a new bit of history for me that that I was
encountering. And so when I left, I was
writing poems, I started writing songs, I went back and had
residency there. And then over the last seven
years really it has been my obsession.
It's always felt like all roads lead back to this place where I
would say exhibition. It would remind me of something
I've seen or. I'd discover an artist like
Betty Saar for the first time, and then find out there's a
retrospective at the Prada Museum in Milan and go on a sort
of pilgrimage to there. So that building sent me all
around the world, but do you think that's going to open
another door for another album, this whole sort of seeking out
this black history, this black culture I.
Think it's opened up a thing in me of realizing that it's OK and
good to allow the things that interest you into whatever your
chosen field is and not to feel boxed in.
And I think certainly coming out of labels and out of more pop
music, you know, I felt with my last record, my third album,
that was really. Policing myself or gatekeeping
myself in terms of what I thought was useful and
acceptable. You know, I'd had an experience
of playing songs to people maybe in in my wider team and they
might have said, you know, it's, it's good, it's beautiful, but
it's not the first single. There'd be a lot of that kind of
talk. It's not the first, it's not
radio. I don't know if people get it.
So by the time I'd had that happen so many times to myself,
I would be doing it. To my to myself, You know, in
the studio or my bedroom, I'd think, what's the point of
finishing this song? It's too long, it's too slow,
it's too weird. It's about too much of A niche
subject matter. Like it's not somehow universal.
I think the way that streaming affected music, making so many
people felt right. The only way now to to kind of
make it music is to have a radio smash, you know?
I started calling them International Mega Smashers.
And I was getting to know Mark Ronson at the time and it seemed
like every time I turned around, Mark Ronson was having an
international mega smash. You know, it's just like you
would hear it pouring out of every taxi and on every radio
and you know, and every nightclub and it would just be
winning all these awards. And so I think at the label lots
of people kind of feeling that way that you know, you've had
the success and you've had this critical claim and now it's
really time to kind of get back to the center of the target,
which is the international mega smash.
And then you have this kind of fruitless searching for the
thing, You know, with my third record, that probably could have
been three records, you know, with the amount of stuff that I
wrote for it that either I rejected or someone else
rejected, you know? And when I hear the album, I'm
so pleased that I managed to kind of get it done because
there was so much of a feeling of me not doing it right.
And so with this record, I feel like everything seems to be
open, you know, why not do something strange?
Why not do something with all these different genres?
I couldn't help it as I responded to all these different
objects. You know, one had to be a punk
song, one had to be a kind of operatic song, one had to be
psychedelic soul. And so I just feel like I have
given myself these different freedoms with the music.
It's really interesting to me because there's sort of almost
there is a real parallel between music and fashion.
And you know, you with fashion you've got, you know what is
your brand identity, does it fit into your brand codes and your
brand guidelines and all of that.
And I and the musicians that I know talk about that, but it
feels like you have absolutely bust those shackles with this
album and said actually, let's just try this, let's try that.
And it it's fantastically creative and evocative as a
result. I mean, I guess you know for
yourself when you're making, you have to be excited about what
you make. You don't want to just repeat
the same things. And like you say about brand, I
think artists don't like to think of themselves as a brand.
And I think so many, so many designers.
I mean, I guess it happens in a small cycle with a designer, but
so many designers will then say I have to leave this house in
order to make something different or I have to go out on
my own and do what really is in my heart.
Or they have to say. I'm leaving fashion completely,
you know. But I fell and I guess I did a
similar thing because when I was making this record, I said this
is a side project. It's not my own album.
It's not going to come out under my name.
So I don't have any of those ties.
You know, I don't have any of those, like you might say,
listeners or, you know, fashion the consumers.
You know, I don't have to think with the person who normally
wears my current Bailey Raid suits.
Wear this. You know, I could really think
this is what I want to do. I don't have to think about any
of that. And and so it was only really
towards the end of the process, definitely after I'd finished
all the recording, that I decided I would have it be my
own record and I would claim it as my own thing.
And I'm really glad that I did. And you've been really brave to
do that and you've got the critical acclaim as a result of
that. Thank you, Chapeau today.
So we're going on a style journey, yes.
So love to do How did you decide what you were going to wear here
today? Well, that's really good
question. I mean, it's kind of slightly
limited because I was coming on tour.
I left my house in Leeds this morning.
I have 3 suitcases. I take SO1 suitcase is kind of
kimonos, pyjamas. I'm on the tour bus, but I'm
still with people I work with, so I can't be too super casual.
That's one suitcase. My other suitcase is all these
jumpsuits I had made by this British designer called Mary
Benson, who normally does all these really bohemian dresses.
And I wanted her to make jumpsuits.
I saw this design that she'd made.
It's all psychedelic, it's butterflies, but where the eyes
would be, It's these strange eyes.
And she gets it all to interlock.
And I saw her in some dungarees on the street and said that's
amazing. And she said they're mine, I
made them and I just said, can I come to your Italia?
I came to the place where she makes the things and.
We designed these jumpsuits together, so I'm wearing her.
So that's a suitcase. And I also got this amazing
sequence of beaded kimono that we're on top of those from Marco
Hall. Who's this brilliant?
What does he call this style? It's like disco bohemian or
something like that. You know, he's from, he's from
new. Were we in New Jersey when we
saw him? And everything's just sort of
fabulous. And so I got a piece from him,
something else that's kind of like silver metallic.
And so I have that suitcase and then there's the kind of go into
my interviews. I had lots of things in there
and as I left the house I realized those cases aren't
going to be arriving in time to go and see you.
So I quickly grabbed this jumpsuit which my husband
actually bought for me and I thought he did really well.
But I love the colour of it and I love the way that it makes me
feel where I have been crumpled up on a on a train.
Coming down from Leeds looking after my two kids and making
sure they eat something, it does make me feel that in a different
way that I'm OK now. I'm going to do something where
I'm going to be talking and I can be in this vibrant colour.
And then this scarf I just picked up in Nashville in a a
vintage shop, it had like these amazing, well, these amazing
silk scarves for you know, $30 and $20 and and all these cool.
I got my new favorite vest, which is from the 80s, and it's
one of those. I ran the marathon in such and
such American cities, so I feel a bit fraudulent because I've
never ran a marathon. But I lived in that on my last
tour. I I'd say you've lived a
marathon, yeah. But yeah, that's how I decided
were you. Would you say you were very
aware of your mother's style growing up?
I was really aware of my mum's style and my mum is very
stylish. I was thinking of this on the
train today, that she's always been very stylish and chic.
You know, she when we grew up, she was actually cleaning
houses. You know, it was before she.
What? She cleaned houses.
Then she cleaned our school, a primary school.
And the teacher called her into the office one day, the head
teacher. And she thought, she thought she
was going to say, can you come and do a bit more cleaning?
And she thought, I really have to swell my pride here.
This is my children's primary school.
But the head teacher said, would you like to come and read to the
kids? And she did and they loved her.
And then she started working, reading to children.
Then she started working with children with special needs and
she ended up being at the school for.
I wonder how long? 20 odd years she was at this
very same primary school, but she worked with children with
special needs for more than a decade.
And then she worked in helping children with diversity, you
know, bringing diversity into the curriculum.
The school won an award. She's really brilliant.
The school became an outstanding school.
But yeah, she was always very chic, even though she had no
money. She used to work.
She guess she worked in fashion in the sense that she worked in
a shoe shop and a millionaire, well known shoe shopping.
Leeds I think it was called something like Vernon Humpage.
So she would do the window displays and then she would of
course spend all the wages on on clothes.
Like any good working class girl, you know, going to save up
for anything, this going straight to shoes.
So she always had the good shoes from Vernon Humpage.
But my mum knew hats. I remember going to a wedding
with her where she had no money and she made a hat out of, you
know, cornflake packet. She cut the she cut the
cardboard and she somehow sort of steamed.
I guess she pinned it and then she had a fabric that she laid
it over. She had a little bit of gauze
leftover, so it had this kind of stiff veil and it's somehow
matched a dress. I don't know where the fabric
came from, whether she took up the dress.
I remember thinking, you know, she's so elegant, she would ride
to school from a cleaning job on a on a bike in heels.
So I was always really aware that my mom was really well put
together, and I think because we were.
Working class, family, you know, when we went to town, we went
into Leeds. We always had to dress up, so we
always had to wear our good shoes, which were our school
shoes and we always had to have cream on our legs and our long
socks and our Sunday best on. And always think when you are
coming from a particular background you really wanted to
project a certain thing in the world.
So we're in our case, we're trying to hide our poverty, you
know, so we would look in the shops and we'd try things on
that, you know, we. We weren't going to be buying
that week, but maybe we'd buy it next week because it was our
birthday, or next month because it was Christmas.
But I always remember clothes as being a kind of way of moving
from one group to another, that I would always be aware that
they would change the way people saw you and the way that you
were seeing yourself. So I knew the power of of
clothes and when I could start to afford to buy clothes.
And even when I was at university, you know, I did
spend a good amount of money on clothes.
And because I was just interested in the the sort of
the way that you can project something about yourself, it's.
Very interesting that. I mean, you have two sisters.
Yes, That's. Right.
And did you did you influence each other?
Did you dress each other? Did you borrow each other's
clothes? Yes, we really did.
I mean, I guess in the early days, a lot of our formal wear
was matching, you know, So my mum's, my dad's mum would buy us
a Christmas dress every year. So very often that would be, it
might be the same dress in different colours.
So my youngest sister, you know, she would always have 3
versions, you know, she'd wear hers until it ran out and then
she wore canvases until it didn't fit and then she wore
mine. But yeah, we we had different
styles, I guess they had, we all had different body types.
And I was this really skinny one.
I mean, all my sisters, my sisters are slim, but I was
really underweight when I was little, so that also affected
the way that I dressed, you know, I didn't want to look too
thin. So at school I was always always
like two or three pairs of tights.
You know, I'd wear like 90 Danny Air tights on top of 90 Danny
Air tights because I really, I didn't want my legs to look too
Twiggy because they were really skinny and I like to wear, you
know, I like to have some layers on.
All the opposite. I'd find it really hard to find
stuff that fitted on my body, so I'd often be wearing it's
younger age group clothes. But that's why I really got into
vintage because suddenly you could find cuts, maybe cuts from
the 70s that were a bit more slim on the body.
I remember when I was a teenager finding out this amazing denim
jacket which I thought was a three quarter length sleeve and
I looked at animals like for a nine year old or something, but
it fit me really well. It fit in the shoulders, it was
tight on the arms, but it looked good and tight in the body and
just that 90s retro thing to look 70s that was really popular
I guess when as a teenager. So you could find, you know,
skin type flares and lots of denim and old band T-shirts and
that, and it was cheap, you know, So that's I really got
into fashion in that way And then I started, you know, going
out and would meet all these mods and they'd have all these
60s clothes and I really liked that style as well.
How? Old would you say you were when
you? Felt like you'd really
discovered your style DNA. I mean, I feel like I didn't
discover my style for ages. I would just be wearing, you
know, whatever I was pulled to. I remember really loving colour.
And then when I was 12, I remember having this outfit from
CNA. That was, it was kind of almost
like hair and pants, you know, brown with and there was a
jumper with a picture of a camel on.
And but then I also remember as a team age maybe 15.
Then I had my two sort of good jumpers, you know, my two good
sweaters and I would wear sort of a black crop top underneath
these different off the shoulder jumpers.
And it maybe it'd be like off to the left or off to the right or
till it this way or back. I had all these different ways
of wearing these two jumpers because they only had two.
And I feel like that's when I kind of arrived at Felt.
Good in your skin. Yeah, I felt good in my skin.
I was like, yes, you are kind of skinny, but if you wear things
that fit, it will work, you know, and it will.
It'll be OK. And and you know, that's when
that look became much more fashionable in the 90s.
Whereas when in the 80s when I was growing up, you never wanted
to look like Samantha Fox or something, you know, kind of
like Q and Booby. And that was never going to be
me. 90s was your era. And then I was like, oh OK, this
works for me. You know, I can, I can find.
I can make clothes, you know, you would get like a scarf.
They would have these stores where you had maybe 2 long silk
scarfs tied in knots and they would be in the bargain.
Love the bargain bin. You know, scarf.
Yeah, me too. And you can do so much with it.
But I remember I was in this band called Helen.
So I thought, I've got 2 purple scarfs here.
I'm going to sew them up and make them into a dress.
And I did. And you know, so I really like
to make. I never made good clothes, you
know? But I guess I made stuff that
I'd wear on stage and it was silver sequins one day and
purple the other day and. Yeah.
Out of interest, when you're writing, do you have a, a
uniform for that, or what I would call a uniform?
Something that you just reach for whether it's a?
Corduroy jumpsuit or whatever, that, you know, you can just
throw on and you can get creative in.
I guess when I'm in my studio, I feel like it's really like not
pretty, you know, I feel like I'm really scruffy.
So sometimes because I do work in my house, sometimes I will go
upstairs, you know, with my hair in a burn, wearing a long
T-shirt and some knickers if it's hot, oh, my pyjamas.
Or I like to wear big cat, you know, big cashmere jumper over
some silk pyjamas. Or I really like to be
comfortable. I'd like to not think about how
it looks at all, because I think think about how it looks pulls
me from away from my internal and that is so much part of my
creativity. That is exactly My question is,
you know, do what clothes do you throw on so that you can focus
100% of your creativity and your imagination in those things
would be really, really cosy things.
You know, I really like, you know Margaret Howell or Toes
store. You know, I'm back in the day,
American and paralleled way. You know, just stretchy shirts
and T-shirts and, you know, those kind of things.
Yeah, I I've read that you talked about moving to LA to let
the sunshine in. That's your quote.
But can you tell me about that and how being in LA affected
your style choices? Yes, LA so strange for there's
so much external. You know in in Los Angeles and I
always used to call the dressing style there asset presentation.
So it's not about what you like to wear.
It's about how what you wear can accentuate the most valuable
things of you. Like if you've got good boobs
you should wear stuff that really shows that.
If you've got legs, you should show that or and I I couldn't
get into that asset presentation kind of style of dressing.
You know, I thought it's really hot here by the way.
So I would, I just wore lots of loose things when I was in Los
Angeles. I found myself wearing lots of
white and lots of kind of, you know, loose jumpsuits and things
as that designer Rachel comedy. I would wear her and, you know,
sort of short things. But there is a thing, a feeling
in LA of when is always on display and you're really aware
of that. You know, don't go to you.
Don't go to Soho House without thinking about the shoes and the
bag and the jacket and the thing.
And because so many people will see you and you won't have time
to talk to them, but they'll see you.
So all they'll see is you know what you're wearing and how you
present yourself exactly. They'll read your clothes.
So I would be able to do that when I was in all the public
facing things I would have to really think about.
And that's where it's so much fun to be at, you know,
someone's BBQ, you know, and just be in a swim, a swimsuit,
in a big long shirt or something like that.
You know, it was really nice to to compare those two worlds,
like the outward and the inward. But yeah, ballet is a funny
place for that. Your new album Black Rainbows is
very much inspired by black history and culture.
I wondered if. That has affected your choice of
clothes and designers for the album imagery and indeed the
tool. Yes, it definitely has.
When I was putting together the clothes for the album photos, we
did some photos and we also made this book and it's been shot by
Koto Bolofo, who I Absolutely Dor.
And you know, he's done so much great work in fashion and then
around Archive and Ms. and, but he always has this romantic
poetry aspect to what he does in clothes.
And he's from South Africa, but he, he lived in the UK now he
lives in France. And I was for like the Koto
girls. They were women, but they had
that girlish playful energy and it might be they're doing a
cartwheel or they're sitting and this gets blown up and you know,
they'd always have Ruddy cheeks and be really vivacious life
loving. So I thought about him and I
thought I really, I've always wanted to work with him and I
managed to on this and but then yes, specifically in for that
book I thought I want to wear Duro Oluwu, who I absolutely
love, and I want to wear Grace Wales Bonner.
And at that time Grace was just moving into women's clothes.
But she had all her historic archive which was all men's
clothes. And I've always looked at that,
you know, you see the suiting and the beading and the cowry
shell headdresses. And so when I was putting it
together, I spoke to Caroline Easa, who I love.
He's a great fashion director, and she's at Tank and just super
elegant and amazing woman. And I said to her, I really want
to wear Duro for this. And there's this Cape that I've
loved for 10 years, and there's this suit.
And and then I said to her, and I really want to wear some of
greatest things, but I know there'd just be an archive now.
And she was kind of like, leave it with me.
And then when I got to Chicago, I was got to open these boxes
and, you know, these gorgeous things by Dura with little palm
trees on another little Cape. You know, that made me think of
my Caribbean grandmother or. Or the the Grace Wells Bonner
pieces, which is so heavily embellished and the kind of, you
know, they're romantic, but they feel kind of militaristic.
And there's just so much working them.
And then, yeah, getting to where at one point I had everything
on, you know, the suit and the Cowie shell and cota just says
it all just feels too much. It's really, it's kind of, it's
overwhelming in the story that you're trying to tell us, he
said just go and put that shirt on and don't button it up.
And I mean he never showed my legs, but I just wearing the
shirt and my pants, you know, and holding onto this little
black doll and that became the front cover of the of the book
that we made. And also, you know, the cow
Rochelle, her dress was the same.
It was don't wear you know be not in clothes but be in this
kind of crown and you know, and he did a really good shot from
the side and. It's It's often more powerful
just to focus on one thing. It is pilot.
It is, but of course, because I, you know, I love fashion,
because I guess I was held away from all these things for so
long, I always think just more. Magpie.
So you just kind of pile it on and then you can't even see
yourself in it. So yeah, exactly.
That you just to have one thing always make so much more of a
statement and. And I have thought about, yeah.
So I wanted to use with Duro who he's a really great artist as
well and you know and his heritage is Nigerian.
I think his mum was Jamaican as well.
So he has this Caribbean sort of British understanding and then
this African upper echelons royalty angle as well.
You know, he's really fascinating to be around.
I mean, I've often talked about clothes being our armour, and I
know that in 2008 you suffered a terrible loss.
Your first husband, Jason Ray, died.
Do you think you ever use clothes to give you strength or
indeed protection during your grieving process?
I definitely did. And I felt like in that, in that
loss, it was almost though all my outward facing stuff was
finished, you know, in terms of thinking about my my music, I
just thought, well, that it, it felt like the end of my life.
You know, he was 31, I was, I was 29.
But he felt like, oh, this is the end of my life.
And I sort of thought, well, that's OK because I've had this
really great life, you know, that I had got to do all these
things. And so yeah, I definitely felt
going for it. And it was just after we'd
finished, I'd finished promoting our first record.
I guess it will have been if it was 2008.
So it would all be in, you know, outward facing Oprah, private
jet Grammys. You know, I was, everyone's
watching great stylists who bring you stuff and you wear it
and it goes. And Missus Prada sent you some
shoes. And it was so then I all of that
stuff was just kind of sat in a room that I didn't go in.
And then all I had was, I mean, I had his clothes, which I like
to wear, you know, so I would have whatever would fit me of
his, you know, I used to wear his clothes when I would maybe
stay over at his house and then I'd have to go to work the next
day. And he was kind of, you know,
skin in the waist. So sometimes he he collected all
this vintage Adidas from. He was from Aberdeen and there
was an Army and Navy store which somehow in the 90s realized they
had this massive stash of original 70s jeans and Adidas
that they just kind of got out. And of course all the teenagers
and students slapped it up and Jason got all these amazing
pieces. So very often I'd be going to
work in a, you know, and added us top and maybe some jeans with
a belt really tied around. And people say, oh, I know where
you were last night. You know, they they know that I
hadn't been home, you know, and I've just started getting
together with him. So I had real nice memories of
those clothes. I've been like, OK, when I got
here, I was in a silver mini dress and now I've got to go to
waitress, what can I wear from your wardrobe?
So it was really nice to be able to wear those things that made
me feel closer to him, you know, his coats or and then gradually
it felt OK, I don't want to wear those things.
And then and then I just went to the most comfortable things
because I think when you're in real sort of grief or shock or
trauma, even things like your dexterity is not the same.
So things like faffing with buttons, zips, lacing things, I
just I could sort of it seemed all too much to do anything like
that. So everything was soft.
Everything was, yeah, the old cashmere jumpers or cotton, you
know, nothing was non natural, you know, and sometimes I would
have have stuff and I'd, you know, maybe fall asleep in that
thing or you know, so it wasn't, It was a new version of day to
night dressing, right, where you just like the the time is
elastic and you're not really going.
I wasn't really going out of the house.
A lot might go for walks. I definitely wasn't going out
out. I didn't want to be around
anyone. I felt like any everyone would
want to talk to me about it and I didn't want to.
And I was also dressing as a kind of camouflage because in a
way that was my most. It was when I was most
recognized, you know. So I also really didn't want to
be recognized because I knew people would just like you
naturally do with your news feed.
They'll say, oh, it's hurt. Oh, there was that bad thing
that happened. And so you'd some, I'd sometimes
see people react with that :) oh, the sad face, and they
wouldn't know what to say. And of course, didn't want to
talk to them about a total stranger about that.
So yeah, I definitely think my dressing took on a kind of if if
you are seeing me, I don't want to just think that I am the same
person that you last saw in Mimiu on Channel 4, You know, I
want to be just away. So yeah, soft things, cotton
things, cashmere things, layers. Nothing with buttons, nothing
with zips, nothing with loud, nothing loud, nothing fashioning
at all. Proper little cocoon.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah. That cocoon is a kind of
protection, but also a sort of saying to the world, you know, I
don't want to engage. Like, read that from how I am,
you know, dressed right now. Beautiful, beautiful.
You then went on to remarry. That's right.
Yeah. What was your second wedding
dress like? Tell me.
Yeah, it's so funny because I remember my Nana saying to me,
oh, you're just going to have a small wedding now.
And I said, no, I'm going to have, there's going to be 300
people. And because it's not like
perhaps if you get divorced where you, you know, you guys
have decided together this marriage hasn't worked or has
failed. You know, I always say to
people, the best marriages end with one person dying.
That's how you agreed to do it, you know, So you don't have to,
If someone's partner, if someone's husband or wife has
died, you don't have to kind of not mention it as though it's
the same as our awful divorce that they don't want to talk
about, you know? But I think because of the age I
was, nobody had any experience of, you know, I had experience
with a 20 year old widow. You know, it's someone a widow
in their 20s. So a lot of people didn't really
know how to talk to me about it. But that's why I'd always say,
you know, you're really lucky if you're if you get to be a widow
or a widower. It's just that you want to be it
when you're 80, not when you're, you know, nearly 30.
So, So yeah, my I wanted means Steve's wedding to be a really
big do because there was no, you know, he hadn't been married
before I had been married and then I was a widow and that was,
you know, that's all good, you know, that's all.
It wasn't a failed marriage. It was like it did its thing and
then it was life. Yeah, exactly.
One person died and so, so yeah, I had had this, I think his
surname was Stewart. I want to call it about James
Stewart and I have to check that.
But I met him because I think he used to do lots of clothes for
people who were on, you know, some of the more well known
people in Leeds who would be on maybe a Coronation Street or or
in Manchester, you know, there's that scene in the north of
England. So he would be making event
dressing for them And he also did brides.
And I saw his work and I had something in mind and I really
wanted give pure lace and I really wanted something very
kind of tight and high and kind of like a pointy boobies and and
I wanted it to be a small waist and then I wanted it to be just
big silk. You know what?
When Jason I had had got married, it was kind of like a
slip of a thing, you know, So I really wanted, you know, and I
wanted to veil. My mum made me a veil.
And it's so it's all very dramatic.
And then I wanted to wear flowers, you know, I wanted to
have like a a flower crown, like a Frida Kahlo.
And I remember saying to the florist, give me tons of
flowers, I can put in my own hair and then give me bits I can
put to the bridesmaids. And there were loads of
bridesmaids as well. And I remember my hairstylist at
the time, he's called Kenna, Kenna, and he has Kenna Land,
which is in it's in London and New York.
He's brilliant. And I remember him doing my hair
and I said wow, it looks amazing.
And I said, oh, are you alright to put the rest of the flowers
in? The bridesmaid says what rest of
the flowers? He just put it all, just all on
me. And I love that, that, you know,
it looks amazing now in 12 hours it's going to be just wilted,
you know, It's not seeing anything but just the sort of
freshness of it. So you know, we got married in
winter as a winter feast and and this, you know, the light was
going down and it was really beautiful.
But yeah, I wanted to be here. I am in this, you know, going
into this just full of joy and and also with the same kind of
poignancy that I never thought. I never thought I would get to
be married and never thought I would get to have children
because when I was 29, because I thought my life was over, I
thought, well, I'll never get to have kids.
I won't be. I'll never be able to meet
someone in time to sort of, you know, have children.
Like I kind of written it all off and you know, I had my kids
kind of later like late 30s and early 40s.
So and again that's just a a, a blessing that I didn't think
that would have so. What a joyous image, though, of
you in this good, pure lace dress with all these fresh
flowers. How beautifully.
Fundamentally, who would you say you dress for?
Yourself. Your husband.
I definitely think I dress for myself.
I definitely do. Sometimes I come downstairs and
I can see, you know, Steve's kind of like his head on the
side is and sometimes. If I'm not sure about it, I
might say, yeah, this is weird, but if I really love it, I'll
just say you don't get it, you know?
And sometimes it makes me really even more kind of steely in my
idea of like, yeah, this is a very weird fake fur bolero that
I got from Marc Jacobs that ends here.
It makes me look a bit like a Russian bear in a performing
circus. But that is what I'm wearing
tonight. Let's go.
You know, So I I definitely dress myself.
I like wearing strange things. I like things that that
challenge. I like to stand out in a certain
way, you know, when I'm out and about and yeah, I mean I just
think clothes are, clothes are fantastic, You know, I
definitely have spent too much of what has come to me on
clothes. But the same time I I had always
wanted to do that when I was a kid and never be, you know,
always seen them in the window and thought, oh, I've only or
tried them on and handed them back over.
So now, you know, it's great to be able to say I'll have that,
yeah, I'll have that. How would you describe your
style DNA in three words? That's how would I describe it?
I mean, I like playful, you know, I don't like this clothes
to be too serious. I'm not trying to do the asset
presentation. So I'd say playful is definitely
one I like. Classic.
Like, I don't like anything too that.
It feels like it's of the crazily of the moment, like a
miniskirt with the pockets hanging down or, you know, made
of plastic or whatever. I would probably won't wear that
and I would. So I'd say it's playful.
I'd say it's classic. And I also think I try to wear
things that suit me, like I wouldn't just see something on
the runway and think I have to have that, you know, I I feel
like I can just let things go past that for me.
So I think it has to be kind of playful and classic and fitting,
you know? Love that.
Would you consider you have a style icon?
I think when I first started in music, I loved Audrey Hepburn
and everything that was Audrey Hepburn and the tiny waist and
the ballet flats and the shape. Especially because I had been,
you know, skinny. I thought, oh, here's this
skinny but super elegant woman. And I liked her strange accent.
And I like, you know, her big eyes.
And I related to that and I think I remember sitting down
with someone and saying my style icon.
Yes, Hepburn. And he said Katherine or Audrey.
And I was looking at him like, well, what do you think?
Of course, I mean Audrey Hepburn.
But all these years later, I feel the pull of Katherine
Hepburn and the collars upturned and the man's the men's trousers
and the kind of angles in the face.
And there's intellectualism and the kind of jutted chin and the,
you know. So I think I love, I love
Katherine Hepburn's style, the kind of no nonsense style of it.
And I think in my everyday, you know, when I'm not on stage or
when I'm not at an event, I am in kind of, you know, the high
waisted trousers and something kind of big and something with a
bit that's on my shoulders or an old sort of man's Welsh knitted
top. You know, there's this brilliant
suiting place that I found opposite Charlotte Menson is
getting my hair cut. I think everybody knows of it as
a classic place. I have to look it up.
But I just wandered over and had, you know, one suit in the
window and he measured me for something.
And he said, you know, it's going to take about nine months
to make. And I said, oh, OK.
But that's where. That's, to me, the height of
style. Now it's like, you want it.
Yeah. You can't have it for a year.
Isn't that lovely? Send me some pictures.
In this world of such disposable available everything.
Yes. The shop's called Speciale.
Speciale. Do you know he's an Italian?
He learned from his Italian tailor in Venice.
The guy passed away and he's the one who's carrying the
tradition. And yeah, yeah, but.
There is something gorgeous, isn't there, about that
tailoring tradition of lovely. Yeah, the history of that.
Would you say your style has changed through the decades?
I think my style has changed. And I guess our bodies change as
well, you know, with having my children, not dramatically, but
in ways that I see and feel. And so I do feel I appreciate a
kind of Manish look now. I feel like that, you know,
conversely sort of brings up my femininity more, whereas if I
try and do something kind of girlish that doesn't, that
doesn't read the same way as when I was kind of eight stone
and and 26 years old, you know? Do you have one piece of
clothing that means the most to you?
That's a really good question. That's a really good question.
I mean, it's funny because I've got these boots that I always
perform in and I thought I'd lost them and I was so sad and I
didn't realize how attached I was to them.
But they they Gucci from when it was Alessandro Michelle and
they're they're gold metallic and they've got fringes.
I've worn them so many times, hundreds of times, but I've
never worn them outside because I'm always wearing them on stage
and I feel like I'm really attached to those boots, you
know, they've got a decent heel, but I feel very secure on them
when I'm playing my guitar and I can stomp on my pedals and I can
kind of run around or dance around or jump off stage and
jump back on. So they, to me, they're sort of,
I guess that collection to me was like bow.
It's 1970s Bowie or something, and I thought that's my, that's
my version of it. So I really do like those boots.
Brilliant. I mean, you lead an incredibly
busy life. You're a mother, you're a wife,
you're writing, you're performing, you're touring.
Not to mention the sort of inevitable promotional junket
that you must be on and off and on and off.
Is your wardrobe phenomenally organised?
I feel like my wardrobe is really organised into me being
like here I am, I'm doing my music, I'm in the world,
everyone is around, everyone's seeing me and then then and
that's in a room, you know, and I love to see it and look around
and there's nothing I can get rid of, you know?
Seems like, do you need all this stuff?
Of course I need it. Of course I'll never wear this
again. But I've got it because I
remember in 2006 when I wore this all the time.
And so it's there, you know, and the moths are your enemy, of
course, and you have the, you know, the word and everything to
try and make it work. But then I've got my everyday
wardrobe which is kind of well worn T-shirts.
It's comfortable things. It's a load of jumpsuits.
It's a good amount of corduroy and some, as I was saying,
Margaret Howell and you know some good shirts and some some
good T-shirts and some good jumpers from that.
Especially the, you know, the the Welsh wool people and a bit
of Vivienne Westwood. Because not just because it's
the only really sort of high end place in these, but it is also
the only sort of freestanding boutique in Leeds.
And I go in there often and I've got a disproportionate amount of
Vivienne Westwood because I like to go into a place and it's
quiet and there's only one thing on the rack and all of that.
So yeah, I've got some good Vivienne Westwood stuff.
And and I like Vivienne Westwood so good because it also might
read as a charity shop jumper, you know, sometimes.
So when I'm dropping my kids off at school, people's like, oh, I
love that jumper. And I won't say, yes, it's
Fabian Westwood, I'll say, oh, thank you.
Because it looks like it's, you know, knitted in Peru and I
might have just picked it up at the Oxfam shop.
She was brilliant at that, wasn't she?
But it was so beautifully designed and cut or knitted, but
but really, you know, the the detail, Yeah, the yeah, exactly.
The amount of work in the piece was always really good and is
good. Do you archive all your, what I
would call your important looks? So looks that you may have
collected awards in or particular looks from a tour, or
photos from an album cover, That sort of thing.
Do you keep those very carefully archived?
I guess if I think about it, yeah.
I mean, I don't sort of take a photo of them or write them
down, but in a way I don't need to because they're really in my
head. So, you know, I've got these
pink ballet shoes with the straps going up and they're
really worn out now. But I remember I wore these in a
field in South Africa when I was making the video for Put Your
records On. And that, you know, the IT looks
very beautiful. But the cornfield had just been
chopped and those corn stocks were slicing my legs and I had
scars on my legs for for, you know, 10 years from them.
But I remember these shoes and there was a little white Marc
Jacobs blouse and I can't remember the if I might have had
some pedal pushes I. Remember the image?
Yeah. But I really, you know, I've got
that blouse, I've got those shoes because they're really
special to me and that they're what I wore.
And then that was the thing that people, the first thing really,
that people saw of me, you know, And the ballet flats became, you
know, an important thing. And I and I did want to wear
something that wasn't. I was trying.
I'm not trying to be super womanly and grown up.
You know, I was trying to bring my girl self into my adulthood
in in all those clothes and so that there were a big sort of
leader in that. What, if anything, do you feel
you've got an excessive amount of in your wardrobe?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I mean, I do have a lot of shoes.
I love shoes. I love the kind of the
sculptural nature of shoes and and that the reason I say that
is because a lot of the times the shoes aren't very
comfortable, you know, So there's these Miri shoes, which
I absolutely adored. But the so just the rise and
what it did to the arch by foot, you know, I just, I remember the
feeling of sort of limping along the street after being in those,
you know, for a good 12 hours, you know, but remember thinking,
OK, you can't, you can't wear these anymore.
But I just, course, I've still, you know, still got them there.
Or sometimes I'll buy things that look amazing, like it's a
massive cork heel and then there's leather and there's just
a little thong that keeps you on there.
But I know they're not practical, you know?
But I'll wear them. I'll wear them for awards, or
I'll wear them at a party. Or wear them even just wearing
them for photos. But then I like to keep.
Things. So honestly, how many pairs of
shoes do you own? I don't know.
It definitely won't be anything near all these fashion people.
It won't be anything near those you know, people, but a good
amount for a sort of post Christian working class girl it
feels like a guilty amount of. Shoes.
That's a really good answer. So what's your approach to
sustainable fashion then? I guess my my approach is this,
I like to buy, I'll always wear natural fabrics.
That's partly because I sort of became a bit allergic to
deodorant at one point, you know, and the aluminium, then I
change from non aluminium deodorant.
And then, you know, I'm always laughing at, you know, with
people that I'm sweating on stage, you know, and I think,
well, I had a shower this morning and this thing is going
to go in the wash and that's all all you can do really is.
So I always have to wear breathable, clean, breathable
fabrics. And I think even just starting
there is a really good point, you know, you wearing something
cotton that's going to be able to be passed down, It's going to
be able to be washed, it's it's going to rot down.
I mean thinking about plastic and the fact that all that
plastic is going to outlive us, it doesn't feel good.
So I'm not someone who's got loads of polyester.
I mean I can't wear that stuff just for my own, but for my
body. And I feel like it's not healthy
for you. So I guess my sustainable stuff
is looked at from from that point of view that what's
healthy for your body is also healthy for the planet.
But yeah, that's probably as far as I've really looked into it.
But I think that makes a small difference.
So what do you do with your clothes when you've actually
when you've had enough of them? When I've had enough of them, I
give them charity. So yeah, I just fold them up,
give them, give. Them to charity, as Corinne
Bailey raised. No, I just give them to local
shops because I always think it must be fun, you know, a local
shop when they're sorting through, right.
All this is the H&M and the czar.
And then you think, oh, there's this and it's a, you know, a
fancy label and they could sell it for more, you know.
So I think people are doing that.
I mean, I think sometimes at charity shops, something doesn't
even end up in the shop. Sometimes they'll sell it
online. And I would say whatever they
can do to get the money from from the garment, that's really
worth. It it?
It's such a good feeling, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And I have a lot of shrunk wool.
Wool seems to end up getting spun or or heated in my house.
So then you can make things out of that kid, the kids get it, or
you can make it shrink. The stuff to a child more, Yeah,
all of that really stiffened wool.
But you know, you can use it for you can.
You can't unravel it because it's basically felt, but you
know you can. You can sew with it, you know,
like to kind of make stuff or you know all of that.
What would you say is the oldest piece in your wardrobe and the
oldest piece I know because everything else is gone.
It's, I mean, I guess I've got old things that my mum would
have given me or vintage things. Oh, lovely.
So yeah, she was always like, she would have Bieber or she'd
wear, you know, silk, Two pieces from labels.
I don't know. Amazing.
So she had a lot of stuff like that from the 70s.
I've got some things like that. Or I'm trying to think, but the
stuff from my own collection, you know, it would just be like
a little sweater from Top Shop that I bought when I was 15 that
still somehow is kind of stylish, even though everything
else has been chucked out and replaced with much more lovely
things. And you know, I wouldn't.
I can't. I don't wear it, but I can't
bring myself to throw it away. And I did wear that in a photo,
you know, when I first started out and I think for the
Observer. So just think I'll keep that
one. You know, that was I bought that
one from my waitressing money and I'll keep that.
There's so much nostalgia attached.
Clothes, though, isn't that? Yeah, there really, there really
is. You remember what you were
doing? Remember when you bought it?
Remember all the times you've had in it?
Yeah, we're going to spin around some quick fire questions now.
What fashion advice would you give to your 20 year old self,
20 year old self? I just say enjoy it, you know,
That was when I was just working at in a club and I was buying
all sorts of little things and you know, going out trying to
cut up bras. At that time, you know, it was
like you really didn't want people to see your nipples and
there's that they even in the impression of your nipples was
kind of so risque or not chic. So I remember, I'd say just stop
cutting up those bras, it's fine.
Just get get out there. Get out there.
You're gorgeous. Which fashion trend would you
like to see make a comeback? I mean, I've really liked that,
that era Prada, when they'd obviously seen that photograph
of it, was that David Bowie, maybe Rick, Mick Ronson on a
train. And they're wearing these wide
shoulders and there's these beautiful patterns and this.
The fabric's really elegant and I only selfishly would like to
see that again because there's so many bits I would love to add
to. Like I had the jacket but not
the trousers. Now I'd get the trousers and
yeah, those suits. I'd love to buy a whole load of
suits like that. And fashionable beauty trend
that you would consign to room 101.
Oh, definitely. They're sort of slug eyebrows.
You know that those kind of, I think there's so many kids, you
know, they're like beautiful 17 year old girls who don't need a
scrap of makeup, just totally caked and makeup which looks
fine in a photo and in real life it's like it's more than you'd
wear and kind of, you know, West End musical or something, you
know, that I just feel like, oh, you're 17, you know, just don't,
don't waste your time, you know, you're gorgeous.
Your last impulse by gosh, I feel like I haven't bought.
I almost bought this beautiful chandelier type, you know,
halter neck thing and me, me with the top and the skirt and
it was, you know, it was gorgeous.
But I thought, you know, my accountant isn't really not
going to appreciate it was, you know, you know, when somebody's
had so much work, you say, I understand why this is a 7000
pound outfit, but I probably don't need to be getting that
right now. So I just kind of waved goodbye
to it. So yeah, I rode out my impulse
in that situation. Your views on tattoos.
I love tattoos on other people. I would never get one because I
can never make up my mind. Something I love today is
something that I like embarrassed that used to like,
you know, in terms of imagery or, you know, and I'm just not
chilled enough to be like, oh, that was the old me.
So I like the one other people. And on myself, I probably will
never have one. Beauty treatment you couldn't
give up. I love those eye under eye patch
things because I was feel like I really need them.
So I was wearing them one in the taxi today, You know, there's I
wish it was acceptable to wear them all the time.
I just have them on instead of my actual face, you know?
High End or High Street, I like high end.
I like to have less. I feel like I have less clothes
and a lot of people, but I'd I like it to keep it fancy and
then just wear and know the the T-shirt underneath or whatever.
Bling or bear? Bear.
Minimalism or maximalism? Maximalism.
Couture or charity Shop Couture. Crocs.
Cute or puke? I like Crocs.
Some kids. I probably won't wear them
myself. Sneakers or stilettos?
I don't really have any sneakers.
So, yeah, go stilettos. Skinnies, Boyfriends or wide
legs? Wide legs for me now.
Boricono. Boho, boho.
Sports. Lux or rock?
Check. Rock.
Check. Trend or style?
Style, Experimental or uniform? Experimental Cashmere or cotton
cashmere, even though the moths are those moths.
Shapewear or sexy lingerie? Sexy lingerie.
Tights or stockings. I like tights, bikini or one
piece. I like a bikini, beanie or Berry
Berry. And finally, at the end of the
day, what do you or don't you wear in bed?
Nothing current. It has been such a joy, a
fascinating journey with you. Thank you so much.
Thank you for. Sharing your style journey with
me. It's been really, really lovely.
Thanks for your time. Thank you for yours.
And if I could turn the tables on you and ask what would be the
one style question you would ask me, I would ask you, what do you
think? Drives a person to design.
What drives you to design? Oh, that is an innate desire to
make women feel the best version of themselves.
I just know the power of If you feel great in your clothes,
you're just going to go out there and do the best job, be
the best mother, be the best wife or friend, or just have the
best day. Good answer.
Thank you. Thank you.