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Today I'm going on a style 
journey with serial entrepreneur

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who founded a string of game 
changing companies in the 

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world's of beauty and Wellness. 
She's recognized globally as an 

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industry leader, a business 
visionary, a beauty expert and 

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an inspiration for female 
entrepreneurs everywhere. 

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The truly brilliant Marcia 
Kilgore. 

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In 1997, Time magazine chose a 
29 year old Kilgore as their 

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cover star, pecking her as one 
of the new generation of 

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entrepreneurs whose hard work, 
ingenuity and fearlessness 

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trumped the networking Business 
School big shots. 

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In May 2011, when Oprah 
Winfrey's final show ad, Oprah 

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referred to her former facialist
Kilgore as one of the most 

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inspiring people she'd ever met.
In 2022, The Sunday Times said 

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her new digitally native 
business had forever changed the

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way we shop for cosmetics. 
In between, Kilgore has sold one

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business to LVMH, another to 
Alliance Boots Walgreens, and 

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started three others recognized 
by Vogue UK as one of the most 

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powerful women of 2023 in their 
power list. 

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Hello and welcome Marcia. 
Thanks Amanda. 

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So good to be here. 
Oh, it's lovely to have you 

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here. 
Usually we meet in Switzerland, 

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but we go back. 
Under duress. 

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Under duress, climbing mountains
together and we talk so much, so

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much to forget that we are 
climbing but we feel so good at 

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the top. 
Feel great at the top. 

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Now I know we were trying to 
work it out this weekend when we

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first met, and I think it was 
back in the 90s during your 

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Bliss spa heydays in London. 
And I have to admit that I've 

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followed your career in awe as 
you built and sold Bliss, 

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followed by building and selling
the upbeat tongue in cheek soap 

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and glory. 
And not content with those two 

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juggernaut successes, you 
founded the bio mechanics meets 

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fashion footwear brand Fitflop. 
You've only sold 65,000,000 

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pairs of sandals, sneakers and 
boots worldwide to date, and 

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probably another million as we 
speak. 

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And if that wasn't enough, in 
2016 you created my slight 

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Obsession, the fabulous Buyers 
Club skin care and makeup brand 

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Beauty Pie. 
Bringing luxury beauty to a 

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wider audience and knowing you, 
there'll be many more chapters. 

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But as the complete Beauty Pie 
junkie that I am, I would love 

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you to explain to my style 
hungry audience because it's 

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such a disruptor in the beauty 
industry how how the whole thing

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works. 
What inspired you take us on 

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that journey? 
To create beauty pie. 

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I mean, it was such an obvious 
one. 

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Usually when I create a 
business, I am trying to create 

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something that I myself would 
like to buy or shop from or 

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have. 
Beauty pie was easy because I 

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had sold my beauty business, 
which was soap and glory. 

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And I realized when I was in an 
airport in Hong Kong going to 

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work on a footwear collection in
Donguan, that I hadn't bought my

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own beauty products in probably 
20 years, that actually, I 

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didn't really understand how 
much they cost. 

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Because when you're in charge of
a beauty brand and when you've 

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got one, you have labs from all 
over the world sending you free 

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samples, sending you submissions
so that you might buy their 

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submissions, rebrand them and 
put them on the shelf as your 

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own. 
I was constantly, you know, 

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receiving boxes and boxes of, I 
mean, it was always like 

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Christmas, right, Boxes of 
samples from labs. 

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And it was so great. 
It was like, oh, my God, I love 

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that lab. 
And a box would show up and 

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you'd open it up and there would
be all of all of these products 

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to try. 
So I hadn't actually shopped for

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beauty products in 20 years, so 
maybe I'd have a few gifts from 

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different people. 
But it never occurred to me how 

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expensive things had gotten on 
the other side. 

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So like George Bush, I believe 
there was a time when he was 

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president and he went into a 
grocery store. 

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He had no idea how much milk 
cost because it had been so long

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since he had to go buy his own 
milk. 

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It was kind of the same. 
Obviously I'm a Democrat, but I 

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had no idea how much good 
moisturizer cost. 

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So I'm in the airport in Hong 
Kong, about to go to Dongguan 

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where they don't heat the 
factories in the winter until it

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gets really, really cold. 
And I had forgotten to bring 

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facial moisturizer And I was 
going to be out there for a 

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couple of weeks and I thought, 
you know what, let me just go to

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duty free. 
I haven't been in a duty free to

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buy anything in years. 
And I headed over to one of the,

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you know, well known high 
quality Asian brands where there

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were a lot of choices of 
moisturizers and I had been 

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given one of those moisturizers 
by a friend who worked for one 

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of those brands many years 
before. 

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So I knew it was a really nice 
texture, etcetera, etcetera, and

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it went to buy it and I grabbed 
it from the shelf and it was 150

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lbs or dollars or whatever, you 
know, whatever. 

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They're selling it or not. 
I just thought, are you kidding 

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me? 
It's like, who is paying 

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$150.00? 
And then I'd be like, Oh my God,

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everybody was paying this much 
for the moisturizer. 

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And I looked at it, looked at 
the ingredients, how it was 

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packaged, etcetera, etcetera. 
And I thought, well, this cost 

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$5 to make maybe, you know, And 
I thought I can't, I can't do 

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it, I can't pay $150.00 for 
something because $5 to make. 

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And I literally went to a 
factory for two weeks in the 

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cold at probably the age of, you
know, 40 something and didn't 

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have moisturizer because it just
seemed so ridiculous to pay that

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kind of markup. 
And I had a similar situation 

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probably a couple of months 
later, where I went to Italy and

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one of the labs that makes all 
the good makeup for all the good

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brands, and they also make some 
of the cheaper makeup for some 

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of the cheaper brands, but they 
make all the luxury makeup for 

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all the luxury cosmetic brands. 
They had invited me to their 

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open house, probably knowing 
that at some point I would start

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another brand and start buying 
things from them again. 

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And they gave me a bunch of 
samples. 

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So I had my bag full of samples.
And I'm in the train station in 

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Milan and there happens to be a 
Sephora there. 

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And I've got all these samples 
that they've been giving me over

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the last couple of days of the 
show and tell because it's kind 

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of like a buffet. 
You go in, they show you all 

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their new technology, they say 
we have this lipstick, that 

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lipstick that, this, that's the 
and you kind of choose right as 

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of next. 
Time. 

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I want to come hurry your back, 
but anyhow. 

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That's exactly it. 
I remember I had the bag over my

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shoulder and I knew what was in 
there because I had sort of 

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chosen. 
I was like, that's interesting. 

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This is interesting. 
You try all the different 

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samples and the textures and 
you've, you know, you choose 

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which ones feel really 
luxurious. 

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You know what the they'll tell 
you what the ingredient lists 

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are and so you that's sort of a 
starting point. 

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And then you can make some 
tweaks. 

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You'd mix the colors, but the 
formulations were all in my bag.

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And I walked into a Sephora, 
which is in the Milan train 

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station and I saw so many items 
that probably were on preview or

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you know, limited. 
You know, they get the first 

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shot at it for certain brands 
that had big distribution. 

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This lab will sell them that 
product first for six months, 

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etcetera, etcetera. 
And I thought, Oh my God, I 

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looked at the prices in Sephora 
and I knew what was in my bag 

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and how much that would cost if 
we were to buy it as a, you 

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know, cosmetics company. 
And the difference again was 

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like 1215 times from X factory 
to sitting on a shelf. 

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And I thought, well, a I've got 
$5000 worth of street value 

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cosmetics in this bag over my 
shoulder. 

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And second, while I was getting 
on the train, I thought, Oh my 

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God, all my friends would love 
to come here and do this with 

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me. 
That was it. 

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And then all the hair on my body
went up, you know, when your 

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hair stands on it. 
And I thought, that's it. 

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How do we get everyone to have 
this really fun experience of 

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kind of being able to shop for 
the really good stuff direct 

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from the lab or direct from a 
warehouse where you don't have 

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to go. 
I really want that. 

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But it's, you know, 60 lbs. 
You know, you can go, you know, 

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I love that. 
Let me just get 5. 

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And so I had to then figure out,
well, how how do you do it, 

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which is that was a much longer 
kind of consideration and 

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building the idea of it and how 
much stock do you need and how 

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does a membership work and all 
of that. 

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But there was, there was some 
precedent. 

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There were brands, you know, 
like Netflix. 

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There were brands like Ever Lane
at the time. 

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They had just started out where 
people were doing this thing 

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where they were cutting out 
middle men and they were 

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bringing products for much less 
direct to customers. 

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So I had a few guidelines to 
follow, but I didn't tell the 

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labs what I was doing until the 
day before we had a feature in 

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Vogue. 
Yeah, I mean, you're scared at 

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any point because these these 
big beauty companies are 

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enormous. 
They have so much muscle. 

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They have a lot of muscle. 
And that's exactly why I didn't 

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tell the labs because I thought,
my God, if they know what I'm 

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doing, I'm about to like rip 
the, you know, the wool off of 

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everybody's eyes and expose the 
markups in the cosmetics 

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industry for what they are. 
They might not manufacture for 

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us anymore. 
So I had to buy the inventory 

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and get into the warehouses and 
have enough inventory for 18 

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months, right, forecasting on 
how many members we thought 

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would join. 
So that if those labs decided 

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not to sell us anything, we'd 
have the opportunity to go 

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somewhere else and remanufacture
with someone else. 

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So it was a little bit of a risk
because you don't know like no 

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one might join, right? 
Or everyone might join, the labs

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might not care at all or they 
might go, are you kidding me? 

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And close the door on you. 
And we didn't know. 

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But I did think first I thought,
I'm going to need a bulletproof 

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vest. 
Speaking of our weighted vests, 

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my weighted vest would have come
in handy because I thought 

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everyone's going to kill me, 
right? 

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The first thought was, Oh my 
God, if I do this and I show 

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people how much cosmetics really
cost to make and skin care and 

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everything else, everyone is 
going to hate, all of it was 

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actually the industry is going 
to hate me, right? 

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And then I thought, but millions
of women will love me. 

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They they so do now for those 
couple of women that might be 

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listening to this who aren't 
already. 

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Beauty Pie, Can you? 
Can you just give them the 

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elevator pitch as to what Beauty
Pie is? 

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Because I really believe that we
all need to know and we all need

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to be members, because I am just
obsessed with it. 

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I would love to pitch everyone 
my elevator pitch. 

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PewDiePie is a Buyers Club for 
people who love skin care, 

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makeup, hair care, beautiful 
candles. 

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We have supplements. 
We have a lot of different 

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categories now. 
We started with makeup and then 

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we expanded into skin care of 
course because that's really my 

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area. 
And then we expanded into 

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supplements and body care and 
hair care and perfumes and 

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candles and everything. 
And what we do is we buy in 

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large quantities from the 
world's leading third party 

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labs. 
So those that manufacture for 

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other high end brands whether 
that's a Tom Ford or I mean what

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is high end anyway, you know 
it's luxury quality brands. 

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And so we buy from the same 
manufacturers that they buy from

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and we buy the best quality 
product with the most cutting 

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edge science in skin care. 
We actually formulate with those

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labs, but we formulate better 
than they do. 

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So we tell them what to put into
the products and then we bring 

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the products to our warehouse. 
And instead of the product 

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costing our members 12 times or 
15 times or 20 times what it 

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would normally cost, which is 
what the average cosmetics 

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industry markup is, it'll 
usually be between two and three

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times what it costs to make. 
So we're able to disintermediate

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the normal system and bring 
products to customers for 1/4, a

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third, 1/5 of what they would 
normally pay for the same 

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quality. 
Thank you. 

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I I have to admit that you do 
this wonderful thing when you 

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place your order and and it sort
of it comes up with the total 

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and then it goes. 
Congratulations Amanda. 

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Not only are You Beautiful, 
you're clever too. 

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You have so far saved and for 
the sake of this podcast, I am 

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not going to say one how many 
thousands of pounds I've saved. 

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I have saved £55,000. 
Well, that's more. 

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Than me, but I give a lot of 
product of course to friends 

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also, right? 
So you end up buying candles and

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bring them for dinner parties 
and all that kind of stuff. 

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So it's also very handy just to 
fill a cupboard. 

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And amazing. 
Now, we are not here to talk 

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about your brilliant 
entrepreneurship, although I I 

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could do that all day. 
I want to know what makes you 

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tick sartorially. 
So we're going on a style 

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journey. 
So how did you decide what to 

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wear today? 
Oh well, I dressed from a 

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suitcase, which is almost a bit.
Generally, yes, I dress a lot 

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from a when I need to look 
styled. 

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It is normally in a suitcase 
scenario because if I am in 

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Switzerland which is where I 
live, I can just put on, 

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Although I will you know put on 
a great cashmere jumper off in 

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one of yours and and a pair of 
you know trousers normally 

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something kind of Italian and 
floppy and then a pair of flip 

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flop sandals and I'm at my desk 
on zooms so I don't necessarily 

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have to be styled up any other 
time. 

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If I'm doing a podcast or an 
appearance, I am dressing out of

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a suitcase. 
So it will be Navy, camel, black

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and white, just, you know, 
automatically. 

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And it's usually a great jumper,
a great pair of trousers, a 

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great jacket, and that is easy. 
If I have to go to an event in 

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the evening, it'll usually be 
some or come to car sign smock 

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type thing or an icy macky type 
thing because they cram into a 

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suitcase and do not require too 
much ironing. 

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00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,800
You are so practical. 
I'm incredibly practical. 

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00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,760
And you grew up in a small 
Canadian Outback town. 

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00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,000
Is that fair enough, 
Saskatchewan? 

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Saskatchewan, yes. 
I mean, but yeah, a farm farming

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00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,600
town, I mean, I grew up in. 
I was born in Saskatchewan in a 

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little town called Outlook, 
before Outlook was, you know, 

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Microsoft. 
And it was a beautiful little 

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town on the top of a river that 
had sort of deep, you know, deep

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valley and it was gorgeous. 
But there's nothing, right? 

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00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,920
It was like prairies and grain 
silos and barns and nothing. 

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00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,400
And cold. 
Oh my God. 

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So were you permanently in sort 
of technical clothing just? 

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Completely frozen. 
There was no technical clothing,

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00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,000
you know, it was you're. 
Right, actually. 

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00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,080
There wasn't. 
I mean, technical clothing is a 

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00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,240
relatively recent phenomenon 
where they thought about like 

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00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,320
the different layers and how it 
holds air and how the air, you 

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00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,880
know? 
So what were you running around 

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wearing? 
Is it? 

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00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,200
Was it? 
You know, I mean, I it was 

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survival, right? 
We did not think so much about 

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how we looked. 
I don't think anybody. 

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00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,320
Even still, when I go back to 
visit my mother, people are not 

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really dressing for style, 
they're dressing just for 

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survival. 
I was going to say, did your 

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mother have, you know, was she 
stylish or was she just 

281
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,320
functional? 
My mother was completely 

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functional, so my mother is 
still to this day I will bring 

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00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,200
her skin care products. 
She still will have one bottle 

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,280
of Doctor Brunner's soap in her 
shower, and she often will use 

285
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,480
that as her shampoo, her shower 
gel, her soap. 

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00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,240
I can't get her to use 
moisturizer. 

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00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,320
And I bring her all these, you 
know, beautiful things that are,

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00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,880
you know, of course, safe. 
She's very green, clean, always 

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00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,680
has been, you know, the yoga, 
healthy eating grinds, her own 

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00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,640
flaxseed, all that kind of 
stuff. 

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00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,600
But I can't get her to use my. 
That's why you have. 

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00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,920
Such my life. 
Beautiful skin. 

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00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:58,200
Well, that flaxseed child, So 
when did you, when were you 

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00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,320
first exposed to fashion? 
Then what was your first sort of

295
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,440
what was your early memory of 
thinking that feels good? 

296
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,280
Oh well, that came a lot for 
like a lot. 

297
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,960
Later when I moved to New York, 
I'd say my my first memory of 

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00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,080
fashion as such was that we were
not a well off family 

299
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,200
whatsoever. 
And my parents used to be quite 

300
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,680
strict about manners and also 
kids chipping in and doing their

301
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,320
fair share of household work. 
And we would get new school 

302
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,240
clothes once a year, and we 
would get them if we remembered 

303
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,520
to pick our plate up off the 
table on the evening that our 

304
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,240
father had put $40 underneath 
that plate. 

305
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,120
And that would be our budget for
school clothes for a year, 

306
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,040
right. 
So of course, this was a long 

307
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,720
time ago. 
So $40 got got you a little bit,

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00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,080
but not it wasn't like I was 
rotating, you know, 30 outfits. 

309
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,040
You were you were rotating three
or four kind of like your school

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00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,120
uniform. 
And if you grew, everything was 

311
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,240
going to be too small, a little 
bit too small, until you 

312
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,520
remembered to pick up your plate
on the right night of the week 

313
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,240
when they had stashed and that 
was, you know, yearly. 

314
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,760
So you didn't put your plate in 
the dishwasher. 

315
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,480
You were not wearing clothes for
another year. 

316
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,680
So that's that's a tough lesson 
to learn, isn't it? 

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00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,920
Yes, to this day, even if I am 
out at someone else's house or 

318
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,599
dinner. 
And I have seen this pick up. 

319
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,960
Your plate is coming up and I am
taking it to the dishwasher or 

320
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,880
to the sink because it's just 
now like it's epigenetic. 

321
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,040
I wish I could get my sense to 
do the same thing. 

322
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,200
They don't should. 
Be in your DNA by now. 

323
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,960
I think so. 
I think it is. 

324
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,480
It's like some kind of 
vibration. 

325
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,040
But it it missed them. 
But you got into bodybuilding as

326
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,120
a teenage. 
Doing I was so bored. 

327
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:45,960
There was like, nothing else to 
do, right? 

328
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,440
You're in the middle of 
Saskatchewan. 

329
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,760
So what was the gym look? 
What were you wearing back in 

330
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,280
the 80s? 
Thank you. 

331
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,760
Yes, it was the 80, early 80s. 
Oh my God. 

332
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,120
Was it the G String leotong? 
Thank God they didn't have those

333
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,800
in Saskatchewan. 
I mean, it was again like 

334
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,000
choices were sort of few and far
between. 

335
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,480
There were tights and I remember
having T-shirts and having just 

336
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,760
sort of, you know, typical 
exercise clothes. 

337
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,320
But again, not a lot like 
Saskatoon. 

338
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,120
SK was 20 years behind anywhere 
else, right? 

339
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,320
They probably just got a 
Lululemon. 

340
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,000
Well, thank God you missed the G
string. 

341
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,320
Yes, you did. 
You wear the G string unit. 

342
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,560
I tell the truth. 
I had a moment. 

343
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,080
Don't even go there. 
And you? 

344
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,880
Brought that, you brought that? 
I've got, I've got a photograph.

345
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,720
I mean, I'm modeling photograph 
I got. 

346
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,080
Yeah, it just fills me with 
horror. 

347
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,200
But you. 
Find it. 

348
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,080
Did it so well. 
I mean you can see there was 

349
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,880
that like there was. 80s colors.
They were just so bad. 

350
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:48,600
And the and the what were they 
called? 

351
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,880
Leg warmers. 
Leg warmers and and cycle 

352
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,520
shorts. 
Oh my God, that. 

353
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,600
Yeah. 
No, not can't. 

354
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,480
Wait, November Flashdance? 
OK, Did you go home after you 

355
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,880
watched Flashdance and Just 
Dance around your house? 

356
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,320
Oh. 
Completely that I so did not 

357
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,840
look like. 
Was it Jennifer? 

358
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:05,400
Biel. 
Yeah. 

359
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:06,880
No, yeah. 
I don't think anybody looked 

360
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,080
like Jennifer Biel and got that 
body warmers. 

361
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,080
Incredible. 
Yeah, there was a body double. 

362
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,320
That makes me feel, isn't that a
lot better? 

363
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,080
Me too. 
But you moved to New York at the

364
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,640
age of 17, in the 80s. 
Do you remember your favorite 

365
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,120
looks from back then? 
Well, you know, at that point 

366
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,120
again, I was a personal trainer 
so there was a little bit more 

367
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:33,840
to buy, but I spent a lot of 
time in tights T-shirts until 

368
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,840
and I made $10.00 an hour, 
right? 

369
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,280
But you were a bodybuilder, 
didn't you? 

370
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,400
I mean. 
You had a lot. 

371
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,480
Of yes, covers the muscles and 
all that you're trying to. 

372
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,920
Well, you know, but if you walk 
around in tight clothing in New 

373
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,640
York City in like the late 80s, 
early 90s, you're just going to 

374
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:54,640
get mugged or attacked. 
However, I was so muscular that 

375
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:59,720
even, you know, I I was a force.
Did you have a A6 pack? 

376
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,240
Oh yes. 
I had a six pack. 

377
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,040
I had, I had biceps, triceps, 
deltoids. 

378
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,360
I mean, people would go, are you
an Olympic athlete? 

379
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,920
I would have that God. 
So I wasn't particularly I was 

380
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,320
again, quite functional until I 
could afford clothing. 

381
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,680
I mean, you kind of When you 
don't have the budget, you don't

382
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,480
look because it's just too 
painful. 

383
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,280
Yeah, no, I get. 
That to be left out right, But 

384
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,680
when you can start to afford a 
little bit of fashion and 

385
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,800
actually in the bodybuilding 
phase, I was never like I was 

386
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,640
never like Arnold. 
I was more like, I guess, 

387
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,840
dancer, sprinter, you know, 
someone got to. 

388
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,400
See pictures. 
It was actually pretty 

389
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,840
impressive. 
When I look back, I think, how 

390
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,840
did I do that? 
I mean, you have to work out 

391
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,080
four hours a day, right? 
And then you have to eat the 

392
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,880
healthy diet. 
It's like, only no carbs. 

393
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,800
And I mean, I do that now. 
It still doesn't have the same 

394
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,480
effect. 
What has gone wrong? 

395
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:01,520
What has gone wrong? 
We're just our bodies evolve. 

396
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,600
They do evolve, so I'm doing my 
best. 

397
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,680
But it was amazing how when you 
could try on a good piece of 

398
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:12,200
clothing and you have that kind 
of like really swelt firm, even 

399
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,280
though my body is really 
difficult. 

400
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,640
So I was prepping and thinking 
about how I think about 

401
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,200
clothing. 
And actually clothing for me has

402
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,480
always been a bit of a love hate
relationship, right? 

403
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,920
It's almost like there's a fight
between myself and clothing 

404
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,840
because western clothing is not 
made from my type of body. 

405
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:37,320
I have wide shoulders, flat 
chest, short term legs, right 

406
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,280
long torso. 
I am a Japanese buddy. 

407
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,200
So that did that lead you to 
Japanese? 

408
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,080
As soon as I'd walk into 
Yojiyama Moto, you fell home 

409
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,080
Booked. 
Amazing. 

410
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,920
Sadly, it was all $2000 and I 
was making 10 bucks an hour, so 

411
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,920
I had to work my way up. 
You know, it was ever an 

412
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,000
inspiration. 
Do you remember the first piece 

413
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,320
of designer clothing that you 
saved hard for and bought and 

414
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,920
thought I feel $1,000,000 in? 
There was. 

415
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:13,000
So I think at the time I was 
dating this guy who had like a 

416
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,120
little bit more money than I did
and loved Matsuda. 

417
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,040
Do you remember Matsuda? 
I mean, what? 

418
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,200
I don't know. 
Whatever happened to it? 

419
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,160
But one of the very, I guess, 
early Japanese designers who 

420
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,960
made it over to New York, and, I
don't know, I always went down 

421
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320
this one strip of 5th Ave. 
between 23rd St. and 22nd, and 

422
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,480
there was a Matsuda store there.
It was when it was. 

423
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,760
It wasn't the flatiron yet. 
It was, sort of. 

424
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,200
I remember, yeah. 
Kind of like Soho, but 5th Ave. 

425
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,920
And I remember them having a 
sale and there was this coat in 

426
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,400
the window and it was the most 
beautiful coat and it was, I 

427
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,320
mean, we're talking like 1990, 
right? 

428
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,560
It was $1800, but on sale. 
It was only 9 and I just 

429
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,120
couldn't stop thinking about it.
And I thought, well, nine, it's 

430
00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:03,160
only 90 hours of work for $900 
coat and I saved up and I got it

431
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,320
and I was probably, I don't 
know, 20 right And still making 

432
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,360
$10.00 an hour. 
But I could not live without 

433
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,080
that cover. 
Oh, it was so beautiful. 

434
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,080
Even of your gym kit. 
And Oh my God, anything. 

435
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,040
I mean T-shirt. 
That's the thing with a great 

436
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,280
coat, right? 
You can put a white T-shirt and 

437
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,800
whatever, and then you put the 
coat on and you're a completely 

438
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,880
different person. 
And it's a transformative piece,

439
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,440
isn't it? 
Coats are everything, yeah. 

440
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,000
If you just don't have time or 
you, you know, you just throw it

441
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,200
on. 
So I have a terrible weakness 

442
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,880
for coats and I try not to buy 
anymore, but sometimes I do. 

443
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,960
Do you always buy ladies 
clothes, women's clothes, just 

444
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,920
sort of hearing you talk about 
your shoulders and in this time 

445
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,040
of very. 
Yeah, sort of. 

446
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,680
Unisex dressing. 
Unisex dressing. 

447
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,120
These jeans are too good, Do you
know? 

448
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:56,920
Too good? 
Yeah. 

449
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,560
Yeah. 
So they're unisex. 

450
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,240
I don't have that much time. 
This is everything. 

451
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,840
I don't have a lot of time to go
trying on clothes, so I will 

452
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,520
tend to repeat myself because 
I'll just head to where I know 

453
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,040
I'm going to find stuff and 
generally I will head to the 

454
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,280
women's section. 
But I would try on men's stuff 

455
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,320
for sure, why not? 
And then my son would steal it. 

456
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,040
Oh, that's another story. 
Now you created the iconic cult 

457
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,120
beauty destination Bliss Spas in
New York, and you had some 

458
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,880
incredibly famous clients, you 
know, from Uma Thurman, Madonna,

459
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,440
Oprah and even Calvin Klein, to 
name a few. 

460
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,160
Were you ever impressed by their
style? 

461
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,600
You know, I thought about this 
and I thought most of the time 

462
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,600
by the time I would see the 
client, they would deliver to me

463
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,160
in a robe. 
Yes, I I thought about that. 

464
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,560
So in fact, and often they were 
coming in at like 7:30 in the 

465
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,400
morning because we couldn't fit 
them in during the day. 

466
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,560
And they'd call it the last 
minute and I'd say, oh, God, 

467
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,880
can't get you in. 
But if you come at 7:30, I'll 

468
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,800
come at 7:00, and they would be 
just as slumpy as the average 

469
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,800
person. 
And I can't. 

470
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,120
I was trying to think about who 
just looked fabulous all the 

471
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,960
time and there rarely was 
anyone. 

472
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,960
However, Shalom Harlow, who was 
one of the sort of she know 

473
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,080
there was a supermodel. 
She's kind of a super, maybe a 

474
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,280
minus, you know, there was Super
A's we. 

475
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:25,920
Won't quote you on that. 
Yeah, I know. 

476
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,680
I mean, she was still a super, 
but you didn't hear about her so

477
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,560
as much. 
But she, it was that like long 

478
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,960
tall body. 
She was a dancer and so I think 

479
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,360
it was just the way she held 
herself. 

480
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,080
Everything just, like, hung off 
of her, like, I mean, this is 

481
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,520
amazing. 
About posture isn't there that 

482
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,000
can be so transformative. 
Yes. 

483
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,240
But when you were. 
Yeah, I know I'm just sitting 

484
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,760
oh, I'm pulling my shoulders 
back. 

485
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,400
But when you were creating the 
concept for Bliss. 

486
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,960
Yes. 
What did you, how did you work 

487
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,680
out what you were going to put 
your? 

488
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,920
Aestheticians and yeah, well, it
had to be. 

489
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,560
Again, if you think about what 
they're doing all day, it had to

490
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,600
be quite practical. 
Conan O'Brien once said that our

491
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,760
our uniform, especially in the 
wet body treatment rooms, made 

492
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,920
us look like sexy tugboat 
captains. 

493
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600
Can you explain that one to? 
Me. 

494
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,680
Well, you have to have, you 
know, you've got to be wearing 

495
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,600
things where you can scrub 
people with Bailey Salt and 

496
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,160
rinse them off and, you know, it
stays you, you know, you don't 

497
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840
have anywhere and you don't want
people to have to change 18 

498
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,360
times a day. 
So when people were doing what 

499
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,720
body treatments, which involved 
like showering people, housing 

500
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,880
them off, there's water 
splashing all over the place. 

501
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,120
We had to get them like sort of 
a water resistant or waterproof 

502
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,320
dungaree, right. 
But over top of like a cool 

503
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:50,960
T-shirt. 
Yeah. 

504
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,040
So at the time it was like 
splendid T-shirts or James Press

505
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,320
T-shirts, and we would put a big
giant Bliss logo on them and 

506
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,080
then they would have these kind 
of really cool kind of 

507
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,640
waterproof. 
But that's fantastic. 

508
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Fabulous. 
Yeah, it was super, really 

509
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,560
fabulous. 
Super cool. 

510
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,560
And I thought of trying to do 
something like and I see Miyake,

511
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,080
right. 
But those fabrics don't 

512
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760
necessarily breathe when you're 
massaging people. 

513
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,320
And so important when you show 
up to be standing in close 

514
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,520
proximity to a client that you 
are fresh. 

515
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,720
So that was fresh and clean. 
You know, you had to just think 

516
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,040
like, OK, fresh and clean and 
friendly and kind of cool, 

517
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,480
Groovy, yeah. 
And everything you touch is is 

518
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,040
super cool. 
But I, you know, bliss was my 

519
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,320
first experience of Marcia and 
and I just remember everything 

520
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,920
about it was cool, right. 
It was it. 

521
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:53,160
It just it had it was it had 
some humor to it, had mega 

522
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,520
luxury to it. 
And yeah, anyhow, so my first 

523
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,600
experience of bliss was in 
London and you, you moved here 

524
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,240
to open the spa. 
Did your personal style change 

525
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,400
when you hit London from the 
streets of New York? 

526
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,640
You know what? 
Quite a lot, actually. 

527
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,400
Because when you live in London,
in New York, it's about black 

528
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,360
and white, right? 
White T or a white shirt, 

529
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,160
generally, You know, Yeah, 
Oxford. 

530
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,200
And everyone is wearing like a a
white Oxford shirt and a black 

531
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,600
jacket. 
Here you look like a waiter and 

532
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,640
I and but in New York that is 
what everyone's wearing and 

533
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,080
that's what stylish. 
Is very much a new there's a 

534
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,720
uniform in New York, absolutely,
and whereas London is far more 

535
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,280
eclectic. 
It's much more eclectic. 

536
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,160
So how did? 
You so much. 

537
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,320
More. 
Eclecticism. 

538
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,720
Well, it was. 
Quite difficult for me because I

539
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,760
I don't know if it's just the 
way my brain thinks, but I like 

540
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,440
simplicity. 
You're quite a uniform person, I

541
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,280
always think. 
Just yeah, default. 

542
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,640
Yeah. 
I have so much going on like 

543
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,640
this I can't look, Even if I put
on earrings sometimes I'm like, 

544
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,960
I can't. 
It's too much. 

545
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,000
It's almost like attention 
deficit disorder, earring 

546
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,880
overload. 
I just can't look at myself if 

547
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,120
there's too much going on. 
And it's the same with clothing.

548
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,160
I tried very hard when I moved 
here to like fit into the mix 

549
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,480
this color with that color, 
these pattern mixes. 

550
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,000
It was really quite difficult. 
I'd buy a lot of clothes 

551
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,040
thinking I'm going to break out 
of my style rat, which wasn't a 

552
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,440
rat in New York, but it was 
certainly a rat in London and 

553
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,040
everything would just hang 
there. 

554
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,160
So I did kind of venture into a 
little bit more Shanya Watanabe,

555
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,640
who at the time was doing some 
really cool colored pattern 

556
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,360
fails, which is different for a 
Japanese person. 

557
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,720
And of course since I'm a Yogi 
Yamamoto come to Garcin Amanda 

558
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,760
Wakeley or too good or nilly 
lotin type of person, there's 

559
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,000
not a lot of patterns there, 
right. 

560
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,200
So bringing in those patterns 
and and that color is kind of 

561
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,920
tough. 
Thank you for the little Amanda 

562
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,080
Wakeley plug. 
There, got the Amanda Wakeley 

563
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,240
stuff. 
That is the stuff. 

564
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,480
Oh, when you. 
Stop it. 

565
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,600
Flashing now, Flashing your 
weekly cash. 

566
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,440
I'm just showing off because my 
weekly cash. 

567
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,160
When you did your first big sell
out and you suddenly found 

568
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,600
yourself with a chunk of cash in
the bank. 

569
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,000
We called it The Eagle Has 
Landed Day. 

570
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,600
The eagle has landed. 
So when the eagle had landed, 

571
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,320
the. 
First Eagle. 

572
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,240
Did your did that impact on your
buying habits or your style 

573
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,160
actually? 
Well, of course I was still like

574
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,280
very hands on in the spa. 
So day-to-day I'm still wearing 

575
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,680
a uniform, but I do remember. 
So I think the eagle landed on 

576
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,240
like, I don't know, sometime in 
early April 1990. 

577
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,120
Was it 1999? 
Must have been 1999. 

578
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,200
I would say several Eagles 
landed, by the way, but anyhow, 

579
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,880
what was the? 
First chunk of the Eagle and it 

580
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,040
was quite funny. 
We, I, I remember my husband and

581
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,280
I, we then got married about. 
We like planning to get married 

582
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,320
anyway. 
We got married about two weeks 

583
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,000
later and for our for the 
weekend that we got married, we 

584
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
had a board meeting. 
So we got married I think on a 

585
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,840
Friday. 
We had a board meeting on a 

586
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,960
Monday in New York, so we 
couldn't really go anywhere. 

587
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,360
We just got married at City 
Hall. 

588
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,960
But we weren't. 
We stayed at The Four Seasons 

589
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,520
and we called it. 
We ended up calling it the 

590
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,800
Barney's weekend because the 
Barney's was still open. 

591
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,000
We went to the first season. 
We stayed there for two nights 

592
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,640
for our sort of wedding nights 
and ended up wandering over to 

593
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,480
Barney's, which was three blocks
away, and just shopping for that

594
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,360
whole weekend. 
He didn't actually buy that 

595
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,920
much, but I certainly did. 
There was a lot of, you know, 

596
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,920
like a lot of Japanese fashion 
that went down there, a little 

597
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,640
bit of Dolce and Gabbana when it
wasn't quite so ornate. 

598
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,600
Like they actually used to do 
some good, you know, simple tops

599
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,680
and things like that. 
I don't see you as a Dulce girl.

600
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,280
Nothing flashy, just like the 
welfare. 

601
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,920
I mean they. 
They used to do a beautifully. 

602
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,280
Yeah, they used to do a few sort
of simple things that were just 

603
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,000
beautifully cut and really high 
quality because, you know, the 

604
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,760
Italians. 
Yeah. 

605
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,600
So I did end up with a few Nice.
You know, Jill Santa was still 

606
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,640
going. 
She used to do some great suits.

607
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,920
So I got a few suits. 
I mean, Calvin Klein even had 

608
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,040
still like fashion at that time,
not just underwear and. 

609
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,800
So you seriously filled your 
boots? 

610
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,760
I mean, compared to most people,
I would say no. 

611
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,480
If you look at Jenna Lyon's 
closet, which is like a whole 

612
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,280
apartment, no, right? 
I still have like a realistic 

613
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,440
kind of closet. 
It's the same thing with my 

614
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,920
brain. 
If I have too many things, I 

615
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,880
just get confused. 
And had you planned what you 

616
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,960
were going to wear to get 
married in, or was that part of 

617
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,960
the Bonnie Barney's Trolley 
Dash? 

618
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,600
No. 
So we got married before the 

619
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,920
Charlie Dash, and actually we 
decided to get married on 

620
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,920
Thursday. 
We had to go get a license or we

621
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,440
bought the license or we went 
to, I think you'd go to City 

622
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,640
Hall to get the license. 
So we got our license and you 

623
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,080
have to wait 48 hours before 
you're allowed to get married. 

624
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,800
So we probably got our license 
on Tuesday and they said, well, 

625
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,400
what about Friday? 
So we just took Friday off. 

626
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,520
But we didn't have, I didn't 
have a ring, we didn't have 

627
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,360
rings, I didn't have a dress. 
I had no shoes. 

628
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,000
So we got a car to pick us up 
from Terry's house in Brooklyn, 

629
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,520
because he had a house in 
Brooklyn at that time. 

630
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,440
And we went to Soho. 
I went to Morgan Lafay, which 

631
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,880
had, like, really kind of cool 
Little Rock starry dresses, but 

632
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,280
you could always find something 
beautiful there. 

633
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,120
I bought a dress. 
We got rings. 

634
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520
I remember them saying we can 
have these done by like, May. 

635
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,040
And we were like, how about 
2:00? 

636
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,640
Tell me about the dress. 
It was actually, it was a 

637
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,600
beautiful just sort of a brown 
like brown multi layered thing. 

638
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,400
So not white. 
Not white. 

639
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,880
It was just the one that I 
looked good in. 

640
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,280
I didn't really care about white
or but I tried it on and you 

641
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,120
know, for me when you're 
shopping for clothing, which I 

642
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,680
don't get to do very often. 
But the one rule I've learned is

643
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,040
if it's not an instant yes, it's
a no. 

644
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,760
Yeah, yeah. 
If you have to like, shift 

645
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,520
around and you're not going 
like. 

646
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,719
Really good tip you will. 
Never wear it if you have to. 

647
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,880
Like, oh, if I lose 5 lbs, I'm 
going to look good in this. 

648
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,040
Or if I wonder if I have the 
right things for I don't work. 

649
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,080
Maybe if I put this switch it's 
like no, if you don't put it on 

650
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,800
and go, then you should not buy 
it. 

651
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,159
You got to keep looking. 
Top tip, Top tip. 

652
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:40,320
Then you went on to create this 
amazing brand for Super women 

653
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,120
Flip flop. 
And I I remember at the time 

654
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,560
having a pair of those Maasai 
barefoot technology trainers 

655
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,480
which were effective. 
They were pig ugly. 

656
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,000
They ripped my feet to pieces, 
but they did the job. 

657
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,800
And then you came along and 
worked in a different approach 

658
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,000
to this bio, mechanically 
engineered shoe. 

659
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:12,280
How difficult was it to combine 
form and design with function? 

660
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,880
Quite difficult the. 
Main reason being that no one 

661
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,360
had ever thought of that before.
So when I first set out to find 

662
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,800
a shoe that would do all the 
right things for your body when 

663
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,640
you walked in it, I thought I 
needed a shoe designer to help 

664
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,040
me. 
And so I would. 

665
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,760
I would try to find shoe 
designers by networking. 

666
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,120
This was sort of early Internet 
days, right? 

667
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,640
It wasn't like you could type in
shoe designer or ask ChatGPT. 

668
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,040
I was going to say ChatGPT. 
What? 

669
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,480
Kind of professional do I need 
if I wanted to bio mechanically 

670
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,880
engineer a shoe you there was no
such thing So I just thought 

671
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,800
shoe designers and you kind of 
know well I'll find the shoe 

672
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520
design college or fashion 
college or whatever and they'll 

673
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,480
send me to someone And I 
remember making so many 

674
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,560
different people sign a non 
disclosure agreement because I 

675
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,760
had this idea about a shoe that 
would work with your body and 

676
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,280
you know do all you know align 
it and multitasking shoe because

677
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,640
there were no good looking shoes
actually that were comfortable 

678
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,360
at all. 
I mean, I too would go to 

679
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,120
Barney's same probably same 
weekend from maybe another 

680
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,680
weekend. 
It's like my favorite weekend 

681
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,080
destination when I lived in New 
York. 

682
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,520
And you go to the Barney's shoe 
floor and you'd be wearing, you 

683
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,560
know, I'd buy a pair of Andam 
Ulemeister beautiful flats that 

684
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,280
I thought, well, these are 
really cool and they look like 

685
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,600
they're going to be really 
comfortable and literally be 

686
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,360
trying to walk to the office or 
walk my child to school and they

687
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,760
would be coming off my feet, 
right? 

688
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,560
They're so fashionable. 
Shoes are not always fit with 

689
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:48,120
any kind of care or any concern 
for a body and how the shoe 

690
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,880
affects the body. 
And to this day I'm still really

691
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,600
fascinated by the fact that if 
you make a shower gel right, a 

692
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,240
body wash, a study thing that is
going to go down the drain and 

693
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,320
not really affect you 
whatsoever. 

694
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,160
You have to test that body wash 
for 60 days and sixty people to 

695
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,560
make sure it has no negative 
effect on those people. 

696
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,720
You can however, design A5 inch 
heel that will pinch the nerves 

697
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,600
of someone's foot and damage 
them forever and put it on the 

698
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,680
shelf no problem. 
It's extraordinary, isn't it? 

699
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,760
When you think about it and you 
know, killer heels or killer? 

700
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,440
Who is it? 
That someone I I read, I think. 

701
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,760
Is it Dolly Parton? 
Because she has always worn 

702
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,160
heels, literally even slippers 
with heels. 

703
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,560
She now cannot. 
When she walks. 

704
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,120
In bare feet, she's walking 
around on her tip toes. 

705
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,480
Like Barbie. 
Like Barbie. 

706
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,880
I might have that completely 
wrong. 

707
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,880
I'm sorry Dolly if I have got 
that wrong. 

708
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,560
We love Dolly. 
We love Dolly, even if she has 

709
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,680
to work work on her tip toes. 
So she's a legend. 

710
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,760
Legend. 
Is such a legend now, so so you.

711
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,720
Created. 
Yes, I found. 

712
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,720
Finally I found I I would 
interview these shoe designers 

713
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,160
and then I would tell them what 
I wanted to create and they 

714
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,160
would say, well, they'd look at 
me like I was a lunatic and then

715
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,920
say I don't know how to do that.
I just draw shoes and that was 

716
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,880
one after another after. 
So did you go to an engineer or 

717
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,280
a, you know, how did you, how 
did you get the technology in 

718
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,600
there? 
Because it's real technology, 

719
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:20,280
isn't it? 
Yeah. 

720
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,520
In the end, through another 
conversation I was having with 

721
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,400
someone else, they I said I'm 
trying to do this by the way and

722
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,800
it was an academic from Swansea 
and he said, oh, you need to 

723
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,640
come and meet with our bio 
mechanics department. 

724
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,160
That's where I realized, oh 
actually he said biomechanics. 

725
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,080
And if you were, if you were 
Canadian, you'd say bio 

726
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,040
mechanics. 
So I I then took a train to 

727
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,320
Swansea and met with their bio 
mechanics department. 

728
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,160
I have another hilarious story, 
but too long for now about that 

729
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,520
meeting. 
And then I finally found 

730
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,880
someone, someone who's working 
for my e-mail me and said, hey, 

731
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,440
did you realize that London 
South Bank University has a bio 

732
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,720
mechanics department? 
So I made made an appointment to

733
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:05,520
go meet them and walked in 
described to these two guys who 

734
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,080
were there, You know, professors
of bio mechanics or 

735
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,760
biomechanics, what I wanted to 
do. 

736
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,600
And Doctor Dave Cook looked at 
me and he goes, well, I know how

737
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,400
you can do that. 
You do XY and Z. 

738
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,200
And from the initial prototype. 
Yes, which looked like a lump of

739
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,960
coal. 
I was going to say, was that 

740
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,560
really? 
Hidden Oh my God, it was so 

741
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,920
hideous. 
I remember them bringing it out 

742
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,360
and then measuring it and having
people walk in and they had all 

743
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,720
the Electras hooked up to the 
models bodies. 

744
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,920
Oh it's incredible. 
It's how apparently they do 

745
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,560
animation by doing this, right? 
So they could measure what does 

746
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,320
it do to the gate, what how much
pressure is on the heel strike. 

747
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,720
They had heat maps on the bottom
of the feet so you could see 

748
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:44,640
that the pressure was being 
diffused perfectly across the 

749
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,960
whole foot, which is so good for
your whole body because it 

750
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,960
stimulates your organ systems, 
all of this stuff. 

751
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,920
But I remember looking at it 
going I don't care if that thing

752
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,800
like lifts my butt between my 
shoulder blades. 

753
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,360
I am not leaving the house in 
those. 

754
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:05,080
So how did you take it from the 
lump of cold to what we now know

755
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,040
as Fitflop? 
So really this was quite a 

756
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,880
lucky, a lucky situation. 
I had remembered that one of the

757
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,880
companies that manufactured Sexy
Motherfucker for Soap and Glory 

758
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,880
happened to tell me during a 
hello this is who we are meeting

759
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,520
when I had first moved to to 
London and was looking at 

760
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,040
different labs to work on Soap 
and Glory. 

761
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,120
With that, in part of their 
presentation about the history 

762
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,240
of their lab and their company, 
they had a sister business that 

763
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,600
sourced shoes for M&S, believe 
it or not. 

764
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,880
So they were footwear sourcing 
business and they have these 

765
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,280
cosmetic manufacturers out in 
Trowbridge. 

766
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,200
And I just remember thinking, 
wow, this shoe is actually once 

767
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,840
we had the results back from 
what Doctor Dave, I call him 

768
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,000
Doctor Dave head engineered. 
He was like, I'm not taking this

769
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,640
to one of the big guys cuz who 
knows. 

770
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,240
But it would be a David and 
Goliath situation. 

771
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,040
I didn't want to end up there. 
And then I had remembered, wait,

772
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,680
people make sex. 
In my hypothesis, they know 

773
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,560
some, they do footwear. 
So I called them and then had a 

774
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,600
meeting with their sourcing 
person. 

775
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,960
They set me up with a shoe 
designer who then went to work 

776
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,520
with Doctor Dave to make sure 
that the shoe and the bio 

777
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,760
mechanics were something 
wearable. 

778
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,920
So the first one was like really
quite crude. 

779
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,120
It was just this sandal. 
It was kind of like sporty 

780
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,880
looked like a flip flop, chunky 
saw, but we saw the millions out

781
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,240
there. 
Yep. 

782
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,720
No, I I remember it well. 
And nothing better than 

783
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:35,040
multitasking. 
No. 

784
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,520
As we walk, we lift up bottoms. 
I love it. 

785
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,400
You're a woman of words. 
I always think you're probably 

786
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,600
one of the most talented 
copywriters I've ever come 

787
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,560
across. 
But I'd like to know how you 

788
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,840
would want someone else to 
describe your style DNA in three

789
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:55,840
words. 
OK. 

790
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,960
Missing in action. 
No, stop. 

791
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,960
It stop it. 
I'm not taking that. 

792
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,760
That's my answer. 
I don't have. 

793
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,560
I don't. 
I think I've had to work really 

794
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,400
hard because my body is not like
a typical, you know, feminine 

795
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,480
woman's body with like tiny 
shoulders and, you know, a 

796
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,440
chest, a long legs and like 
perfect knees, as my friend Ali 

797
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,760
said about my Ali. 
My friend Ali is a creative 

798
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,120
director and she used to work in
the music industry and she would

799
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,800
tell me about certain people 
who, when she'd have to style 

800
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,840
them for record covers, it was 
like impossible because there 

801
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,760
was nothing easy, right? 
And I once did. 

802
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,800
Carla Welch is a quite a famous 
stylist now in Hollywood. 

803
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,480
Before she was that famous, when
she just first got together with

804
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,560
Matthew, who was her 
photographer, now husband. 

805
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,800
They recruited me to do this ad 
for charity, for a rug company. 

806
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,160
And I warned her. 
I said don't try and get me in a

807
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,000
dress. 
Like whatever you do, do not 

808
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,760
bring dresses. 
And she's like, oh, I'll just 

809
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,080
bring a few blah, blah, blah, 
blah, blah. 

810
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,560
And I was like, I'm telling you,
it is hard to dress me. 

811
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,080
It's like. 
What did you end up? 

812
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,680
In Oh my God. 
I care of a stylist that would 

813
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,040
be quite interesting to know 
she. 

814
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,440
Didn't listen right. 
And also I had just had a baby. 

815
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,440
So there's like the then I was 
like a little, you get a little 

816
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,160
thicker, right? 
And I'd had sort of boobs for 

817
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,280
the first time in my life 
because you get them and then 

818
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,720
they go back away, so they 
disappear again. 

819
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,400
So I was not even having, like, 
the Super slim upper body that I

820
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,360
would normally have, which would
be easy because then you do 

821
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,360
like, the long. 
You could then do a long dress 

822
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,120
or a long skirt and some kind of
slim top. 

823
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,720
But I didn't have that. 
I didn't even have my, like, 

824
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:40,200
muscular arms at the time. 
And she put me, I kept saying, 

825
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,000
no, not a dress, not a dress, 
not a dress. 

826
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,280
And she's like, come on, try it 
on, try it on, try it on. 

827
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,480
And I remember this is like one 
of those traumatic fashion 

828
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,240
experiences. 
I tried it on and she looks at 

829
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:52,040
me and she goes, I see what 
you're saying. 

830
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,800
It was like I told you, but, you
know, then you just feel like I 

831
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,160
can never wear a dress again. 
But I don't have the knees for 

832
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,720
it, right? 
And so I have to kind of. 

833
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,040
I have to stick with that style,
which means it it does become 

834
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,000
kind of a uniform, but 
defaulting to Japanese stuff 

835
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,280
just really works for me. 
I mean, I know that you 

836
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,000
obviously get photographed a lot
and I know also that you're very

837
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,240
aware of who you are and what 
you are. 

838
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,520
And I I know that you also sat 
for the legendary Irving Penn. 

839
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:34,760
And did you know in advance how 
he was planning to style you for

840
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:35,520
that shoot? 
Yeah. 

841
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,080
No. 
So it was quite interesting when

842
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,720
Vogue was, you know, I was 
shooting with Mr. Penn back in 

843
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,480
that day. 
Phyllis Parsnik, who was the 

844
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,000
sittings editor, was one of my 
facial clients. 

845
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,200
So she would come in and I would
be giving her facial and she'd 

846
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,520
say, oh, Mr. Penn wants to do a 
shoot about, blah, blah, blah, 

847
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,480
blah, blah. 
Do you have anything like she 

848
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,680
was sort of looking for what can
we, you know, physically kind of

849
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,080
style onto what looks cool? 
What can we stick on a model's 

850
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,400
face that is going to look 
really cool? 

851
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,000
What are the latest trends in 
beauty? 

852
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,360
And so I'd be giving her facial 
going well, we've got this wax 

853
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,120
thing or we've got this blah, 
blah, blah mask or whatever. 

854
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,200
And so she ended up recruiting 
me to come in and be like the 

855
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,000
prop stylist for him for a 
couple of shoes. 

856
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,360
So we did one shoot where we had
like one of those thermal masks 

857
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:21,600
that you put over a piece of 
gauze. 

858
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,480
It was actually really cool and 
and then it hardens and then you

859
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:25,800
kind of lift it off. 
So it's. 

860
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,360
And then we had one shoot where 
we were using, I had all this 

861
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,600
really colorful wax for body 
hair removal that you that 

862
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,160
wasn't the models funnest. 
They didn't really enjoy that 

863
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,600
one. 
It was a little like screaming 

864
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,080
coming from the studio, but it 
was, you know, all these 

865
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,240
beautiful colored wax that we 
were sort of spreading onto 

866
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,440
their skin. 
So there's that. 

867
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,000
And then he asked Phyllis. 
He didn't ask me, which was 

868
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,800
quite funny because, I mean, 
maybe I asked Phyllis if I would

869
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,440
be the model for the next one, 
and then she said he wanted to 

870
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,920
do something like seaweed or 
something. 

871
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,920
I was like, well, OK, and so we 
actually found a whole bunch of 

872
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,200
really weird looking seaweed. 
And he he decided to turn me 

873
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,640
into a sea creature and put like
crazy seaweed all over my head 

874
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,240
and I had like one eye and. 
It's an extraordinary image, 

875
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:14,960
kind of. 
Did you freaky? 

876
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,720
Did you just let him get on with
it because he was this legend? 

877
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:20,120
Why? 
Couldn't see at that point? 

878
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,640
You're like laying against the 
board, right? 

879
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,120
So I couldn't move. 
And he I remember like slapping 

880
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,360
pieces of seaweed across my and 
just being like, OK. 

881
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,480
But don't. 
Smudge the makeup. 

882
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Other than Irving Penn, are you 
very much in control of what you

883
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,320
wear for? 
For a photo shoot, Yes. 

884
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:43,680
Yes. 
Yeah. 

885
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:44,600
Yeah. 
Generally. 

886
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,160
Because you know what? 
There's just no point. 

887
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:47,760
Yeah. 
I mean, I'm sure the same with 

888
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:48,560
you. 
It's like, what? 

889
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,600
Who's going to know how your 
body will look better than you? 

890
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:52,520
Nobody. 
Right. 

891
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,120
At this stage. 
Yeah. 

892
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:58,200
Yeah, you kind of know. 
I mean talking at this stage. 

893
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,040
This stage. 
Is you know when you think of 

894
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,880
hair and beauty as we evolve? 
Yes. 

895
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:14,840
What are your tips to staying 
youthful as we age or as we 

896
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,080
progress in years? 
However, you want to put it 

897
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,480
whenever GET. 
Smarter. 

898
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,480
Yeah, get smarter. 
Get more in into our own skin. 

899
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,520
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, into our power. 

900
00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:28,800
But what? 
As such an aesthetic person, 

901
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,320
what would you say are good 
tips? 

902
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,160
I think a get the best haircut 
you can. 

903
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,200
Yeah. 
And your your natural hair color

904
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,680
as close to whatever that was 
when you were younger is what 

905
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,040
you should have like fighting 
against. 

906
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,600
It means that you have to then 
put a lot of makeup on that 

907
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,400
matches whatever that hair color
is, and so as close to your 

908
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,680
natural hair color as possible 
if you are dying your hair is 

909
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:56,920
game. 
Changing. 

910
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,880
That's a very interesting point.
Yeah, and I think people either 

911
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,080
go to a stylist who tries to do 
something a little bit off, or 

912
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,640
they don't know if they're warm 
or cool or whatever it is. 

913
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,000
And as soon as you change your 
hair too much from what goes 

914
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,480
with your natural skin tone, 
it's a lot of work. 

915
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,160
Yeah, it's a lot of work. 
And if you can find someone who 

916
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,080
can cut your hair and give your 
hair a style, that really is 

917
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,200
your signature. 
I mean, I have Garen. 

918
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,880
I haven't I I only get over to 
New York like once every six 

919
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,680
months or so. 
But I will literally not book my

920
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,480
flight until I know he's 
available because because he 

921
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,680
cuts my hair and I feel like a 
totally different person. 

922
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,560
I haven't been there since 
October, so it's grown up quite 

923
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,040
a lot. 
But when he cut it, people will 

924
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,320
literally stop me on the street 
and go, I love your haircut and 

925
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,720
you just feel like the character
that you want to inhabit when 

926
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,000
you have that perfect haircut, 
taking great care of your skin, 

927
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,120
obviously, right. 
Sunscreen and and I think just 

928
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,760
like knowing what your style is,
yeah, like there is a uniform. 

929
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,720
By the time you hit like 40-50, 
you know what you can pull out 

930
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:03,480
of your closet and it's going to
look great. 

931
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,680
Doesn't really change that much.
I always think it's what makes 

932
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,120
you feel. 
Confident. 

933
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,280
Yeah, whatever. 
Whatever that is. 

934
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,200
And. 
And for each of us, it's going 

935
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,600
to be something different. 
But if we're feeling good, yeah,

936
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,120
you just exude a. 
Confidence. 

937
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:21,320
Yeah. 
You're going to feel like 

938
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:22,200
yourself. 
Yeah. 

939
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,760
Yeah. 
Do you think you've got a style 

940
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:26,480
icon? 
Oh. 

941
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:34,880
My God. 
Well, OK, I'm going to say it's 

942
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,520
probably, Oh my God, that's a 
really hard one because I love 

943
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,920
Ray Caracubo, but sometimes 
she's so out there that you 

944
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,280
can't do that, right? 
But. 

945
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,680
But she's an icon. 
She's a. 

946
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,720
Icon. 
And she also has such a vision. 

947
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,960
But I yes, I mean, she's an 
icon. 

948
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,280
I wouldn't be able to emulate 
that, but she is an absolute 

949
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,560
icon. 
Yeah, good. 

950
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,960
Good answer. 
And. 

951
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:06,560
Fearless Would you think you had
a worst fashion moment? 

952
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,760
It was a worst haircut moment. 
The worst haircut moment? 

953
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,120
Tell me about that. 
It was OK. 

954
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:26,120
I'll just say 3 words perm 
asymmetrical. 80s. 80s like. 

955
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,960
You can just imagine it from 
there. 

956
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,040
It was too painful to relive. 
How? 

957
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:35,240
Long was the said haircut. 
Oh my God, it was so bad. 

958
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,200
I don't think I even wanted to 
go to school. 

959
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,240
This was some guy. 
His name was Jay. 

960
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:40,600
I still remember the name. 
I could. 

961
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,920
I could picture him in my head 
and I think he thought he would 

962
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,840
do something like really cool on
me. 

963
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:48,680
And I was kind of game. 
You know, I've always been a 

964
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:50,960
little bit like, yeah, let's try
it. 

965
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,840
But I remember getting home and 
just thinking, I can't go to 

966
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,640
school like this. 
It was probably Grade 9, maybe 

967
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,800
Grade 10. 
No, Grade 98. 

968
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,480
And I mean, it was devastating 
and traumatic. 

969
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,360
And I don't even know how I got 
out of that haircut. 

970
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,200
You know when someone cuts your 
hair so badly that you almost 

971
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,120
need to, you know? 
But I couldn't do a buzz cut on 

972
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,800
grade eight? 
That would have been just too 

973
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,840
extreme. 
That trauma behind. 

974
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:19,280
Yeah, maybe we should cut this 
part. 

975
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,040
Yes, we talk about travel. 
You're constantly hopping on and

976
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,680
off planes. 
Are you a good hacker? 

977
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,080
Relatively, yes. 
Now, yes. 

978
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,680
And you know what I've realized?
If you don't have what you need 

979
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,480
when you get there and you're 
going somewhere like New York or

980
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:38,000
London or other, I used to 
really panic. 

981
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,880
And I was like, wait a second. 
It's like order it, it's. 

982
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:41,720
So true. 
Yes. 

983
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,560
Favorite luggage? 
Oh, well, I actually love the 

984
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:50,160
away luggage because the wheels.
There are four wheels, right? 

985
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,960
And you can just pile your stuff
on top of it. 

986
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,960
And it's just how you can walk 
through the airport with those 

987
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:57,000
luggage. 
It's. 

988
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,440
It's so true because actually 
I've got the two wheel wheelie. 

989
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,200
Yeah, I am good about tripping. 
Myself up on it. 

990
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,600
And also you have to kind of 
hold your arm like yes. 

991
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,520
You end up with a sore shoulder.
Yeah, good one. 

992
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,200
Ruins your posture. 
Back to posture. 

993
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,960
Back to posture wardrobe 
secrets. 

994
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,400
Do you have a guilty secret 
brand? 

995
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,680
Wow. 
What did What does guilty even 

996
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:22,800
mean? 
Well. 

997
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,080
Is it that it's something you 
don't want to admit that you 

998
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,880
buy, or is it that you spent too
much on it? 

999
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,560
Oh. 
Now you're turning the tables on

1000
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,080
me. 
What is guilty? 

1001
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:43,160
Guilty is, let's say, let's say,
the most expensive item. 

1002
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,080
Well. 
Actually, I think the most 

1003
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,520
expensive clothing item I've 
ever bought was for my husband 

1004
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,480
when he turned. 
I don't know, maybe 45 or 50 or 

1005
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,280
something like that. 
And there was this Hermes Parka.

1006
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,800
Parka. 
Yeah, with layers and things 

1007
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,440
that kind of snap that and it 
weighs about 40 kilos you have. 

1008
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,520
A pinch chip from him. 
It is like a weighted vest. 

1009
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,880
It is so heavy that when he 
hands it to people at 

1010
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,640
restaurants to hang, they go 
like that's like that. 

1011
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:18,120
But it's amazing. 
Shearling lines like, just so 

1012
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,640
beautiful. 
But I I don't know why. 

1013
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,120
I find it easier to spend money 
on him. 

1014
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:27,040
But I will buy like, I've bought
the odd piece from the row, 

1015
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,040
right? 
I've bought the odd Yogi 

1016
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,000
Yamamoto. 
Or come to go some pieces that 

1017
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,160
are kind of those incredible 
layered coats that do many 

1018
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,440
things that are really pieces of
art. 

1019
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,840
They really are pieces of art, 
like clothing. 

1020
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,200
Good clothing is art. 
Have you ever bought a super 

1021
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:50,120
expensive designer bag? 
Not that expensive. 

1022
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,920
How expensive is expensive? 
That's it's all. 

1023
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,960
Relative pounds per well. 
Don't think about it. 

1024
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:56,640
You never do. 
You never do because. 

1025
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,840
It. 
No, because if I'm going to wear

1026
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,840
it, I'm going to wear it. 
And then I don't even think 

1027
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,600
about it. 
It's just like it's again, that 

1028
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:03,320
instant. 
Yes. 

1029
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,720
It's like, am I going to wear 
this everywhere? 

1030
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,200
Yes. 
I'm just going to get it. 

1031
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,520
And it doesn't really matter. 
I'm not a one of those people 

1032
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,560
who goes out and shops all the 
time and you just think, oh, I 

1033
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,240
got to see that. 
No, I don't have time. 

1034
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,720
What's your approach to 
sustainable fashion then? 

1035
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,840
Well, I think if you love it and
you're going to wear it for a 

1036
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,600
really, really long time, it's 
sustainable. 

1037
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,320
Very good one. 
Very good one. 

1038
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:24,280
Do you buy vintage ever? 
Not. 

1039
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,280
Really. 
Any reason? 

1040
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,080
Well, I don't again don't have 
time to go starting through it 

1041
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,160
many things. 
And of course, probably vintage 

1042
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,800
now is maybe a little bit 
different than vintage when I 

1043
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,680
was 20 because vintage when I 
was 20 was cut for the 1950s 

1044
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,800
kind of body type, which is not 
mine. 

1045
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,600
So I just wouldn't find anything
and I really like my clothes to 

1046
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,560
be kind of fresh and that can be
difficult also. 

1047
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,080
So it's a it's a time issue. 
I I get that, I get that. 

1048
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,760
Let's spin on to some quick fire
questions. 

1049
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,720
What fashion advice would you 
give your 20 year old self? 

1050
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,840
That's if it's not an instant 
yes, it's a no. 

1051
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,640
Good one. 
Which fashion trend would you 

1052
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,360
most like to see make a 
comeback? 

1053
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,000
That's a pass and I don't 
understand the next one. 

1054
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,680
What does room one O 1 mean? 
Do you know? 

1055
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,960
What if you're not British? 
You don't seem to understand 

1056
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,120
what room one O 1 means. 
That one is where you consign 

1057
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,040
things really to the bin. 
Oh, like it never comes. 

1058
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,040
Back like you just never ever 
ever want to see it again. 

1059
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,080
I. 
Don't know if I ever saw in the 

1060
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,600
first place. 
The perm. 

1061
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:33,920
The perm? 
No. 

1062
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:39,040
I think maybe like flares. 
Like, really big flares. 

1063
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,000
Who can? 
Wear those. 

1064
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,160
Is that what they're called? 
I mean? 

1065
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,600
They were. 
They wore loons in the 70s, but 

1066
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,440
that was maybe slightly before 
your time. 

1067
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,440
What was your last impulse buy? 
I think it was this jacket. 

1068
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,800
It was it was quite good. 
I did well on that day. 

1069
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,040
You do fun on that day there 
might have been five or six 

1070
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,520
impulse buy your. 
Views on tattoos. 

1071
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,600
Oh, you know, I used to really 
think, Oh my God, why are people

1072
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,960
doing that to themselves? 
How will they ever get them off?

1073
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,160
Right. 
And then they became so 

1074
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,320
ubiquitous that now when you see
people who are like fully 

1075
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,320
covered in tattoos, it's normal,
right? 

1076
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,360
It's changed so much. 
It used to really be a thing. 

1077
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,000
It was like you were a yes or no
tattoo person. 

1078
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:22,520
Now I really don't care if other
people have them. 

1079
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,960
I used to think that if your if 
your child got one, it said 

1080
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,600
something about them, right? 
Like you're going to be judged. 

1081
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,520
Yes, But I have so many friends 
older than me, younger than me, 

1082
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,440
who got tattoos of random things
like Woodstock, Tinkerbell. 

1083
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,680
I mean, who's to judge? 
Beauty treatment you couldn't 

1084
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,840
give up. 
Oh, hair coloring. 

1085
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,560
I'm a good haircut. 
Minimalism or maximalism? 

1086
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,360
Minimalism. 
Couture or charity shop? 

1087
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,440
Neither. 
Crocs cute or puke? 

1088
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,800
Puke. 
Sorry Crocs. 

1089
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,800
They do well, though. 
They sell a lot. 

1090
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:05,160
They sell. 
They sell a lot. 

1091
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,880
Sneakers or stilettos. 
Sneakers. 

1092
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,800
Skinnies or boyfriends or white 
legs? 

1093
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,480
You know this? 
Sports Lux or Rock chick? 

1094
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,680
Totally. 
Sports LAX. 

1095
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,560
Trendo style. 
Style. 

1096
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:20,960
Color or monochrome? 
Monaco. 

1097
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,960
Experimental or uniform? 
Uniform. 

1098
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,440
Cashmere or cotton? 
Both. 

1099
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:27,960
Hoarder or editor? 
Editor. 

1100
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:37,000
Shapewear or sexy lingerie? 
Neither, you know, have you seen

1101
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,640
negative underwear? 
Not that I'm doing a plug for 

1102
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,600
them or anything like that, but 
have you seen that brand? 

1103
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:45,040
It's really good. 
So Jenna also right, told me 

1104
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,280
about them because I said, you 
know, you should do underwear. 

1105
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,760
She said that you can never do 
underwear better than negative 

1106
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,960
underwear and it is like the 
somewhere in between. 

1107
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:57,200
I guess sexy lingerie is not 
shapewear as such, but it is 

1108
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,120
like great very wearable 
underwear. 

1109
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,320
I highly recommend. 
To check out tights or 

1110
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,200
stockings. 
I think they're both a plot 

1111
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,720
against women. 
Yeah, Bikini or one piece, one 

1112
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:15,960
piece beanie or Berry beanie. 
And finally, yes, Marcia, at the

1113
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,320
end of the day, do you or don't 
you wear in bed? 

1114
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:24,400
I have love a really super light
cotton men's PJ. 

1115
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,720
Perfect. 
Thank you so much for your time,

1116
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:36,480
your witty informed answers. 
I mean, as you know we we can 

1117
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,360
chat until we're at the top of 
the mountain. 

1118
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,920
But thank you for your time 
today on this miserable, 

1119
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,480
miserable London day. 
You'll be so ready to get on 

1120
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:46,920
that plane. 
Because not the miserable 

1121
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,160
spending the beginning of it 
with you. 

1122
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:49,840
Oh. 
Bless you, bless you. 

1123
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:50,920
Thank you. 
Thank you.