Welcome to Style DNA, the podcast I created to uncover the
lives behind the looks of your favorite well known faces and
help unveil their style DNA. As a designer, I've always been
inspired by the premise that wearing the right pieces should
make you feel the best version of yourself, gorgeous and
confident, and that these pieces should be designed and crafted
for longevity. I'm delighted to share that this
episode is supported by Karen Millen, a brand that has a 42
year legacy in the world of fashion.
Their commitment to affordable luxury and making investment
pieces accessible has truly stood the test of time.
Whether you're searching for a timeless winter coat that will
serve you for years to come or an elegant evening dress, you'll
find both classic and modern designs that are perfect for
refreshing your wardrobe. For the season ahead,
online@karenmillan.com head over to my Instagram for a link to a
special treat for listeners. Today I'm going on a sartorial
journey with iconic hair stylist Sam McKnight, who is renowned
for creating the hair looks that every woman wants, from his
signature cool Girl effortlessly undone textured hair to his
fashionably timeless elevated looks that reflect his
rebellious spirit to his handmade couture wigs to red
carpet sophistication. As Kate Moss says, Sam has the
magic touch. Sam's unparalleled portfolio of
work reads like a who's who of high fashion and a list
celebrity. From Princess Diana to the
supermodels Lyndra Evangelista, Christy Turlington, Kate Moss
and Naomi Campbell, Sam has presided over iconic fashion
moments of the past four decades and continues to be responsible
for culture defining hair looks that make him one of the most in
demand artists. To date, Sam's work has included
over 200 Vogue covers campaigns for Chanel, Tom Ford, Fendi,
Louis Vuitton, Dior and Armani editorial shoots in
collaboration with great image makers such as Nick Knight,
Irving Penn, Tim Walker and Saul Sunspo.
Season after season he influences the evolution of hair
runway shows for Chanel, Vivienne Westwood, Mosquito,
Therese Van Note and Fendi, Richard Quinn, and Ballman in
collaborations with artists such as Charlotte Tilbury, Val
Garland, Mary Greenwell, Pat McGrath, and Peter Phillips.
In 2017, Sam launched a product range Hair by Sam McKnight, and
in 2023 he was awarded an MBE for services to the fashion and
beauty industries. Wow, hello and welcome, Sam.
Oh, that was a bit of a mouthful.
Wasn't it It? It's quite a mouthful, but what
an amazing catalogue of work. I mean, absolutely incredible.
I feel quite humbled to be sitting there here in your
presence, and I know you're a man that keeps himself really
super busy, but what are, what are the projects that you're
most excited about at the moment?
At the moment I mean we just we just kind of did a major
relaunch last year and we added care to our collection.
So we've spent the last year really sort of honing our
production company and our our product company rather and
that's pretty much a full time job that's pretty that keeps us
so busy because it's never ending the the demand for
content is is like a giant you know great white shark isn't it
just eats up content And so we have we have an amazing studio
that we moved into a couple of years ago which is a photo
studio and so we set out there all the time.
So we can do, we can just go in and we can react to something,
react some news or something straight away when I can go in
and film myself or we can get a model in at the last minute or
or one of the team, because I think it's all about the
content, isn't it? So as well as doing the fashion
shows, the photo shoots the red carpets.
We've now added our own content library to to our weekly chores.
It is relentless, isn't it? But I do.
I do love the way that you're teaching people, she says.
Look at my hair today. Yeah, looks great.
How to do the hair and and I think that's just brilliant.
Well, the whole idea of when we started the product company was
I wanted to kind of demystify the hair world and take this
sort of take the negative conversation away and make it
more positive. Because people would sit in my
chair that, oh, my hair is the worst thing because they've been
told that their hair is really bad and most people's hair isn't
really bad. It's just you haven't been doing
it properly. You I have a thing in my head
where people are a that given a negative conversation about
their hair and not focusing on the positive and they're giving.
So, so, so it's kind of feeding on people's insecurities,
whereas I'm all about the opposite of making the absolute
best of what you have. Yeah, that's all we've got,
really. So you might as well make the
best of it. It's not about feeling bad about
what you don't have. It's about feeling good about
what you do have and how to make the best of what you have and
how not to be kind of threatened by the perfection you see online
because there's all this idea of you must be this perfect.
But that's not the case for most people, because then also all
that perfection is probably filtered or fake somehow.
And I think I I want to make my products about products that
actually work very easily, very simply and very quickly.
So we're trying to take the sort of the drama and the negativity
out of the conversation. So which would be your hero
product in the? Race Our Hero product is our
Cool Girl texture spray. We've called it barely their
texture mess because it's super light.
It's super effective. It's instant.
It's a great volumizer. It's a great texturizer.
It does lots of different things.
But I and I, it's that kind of thing where if you have sort of
fine hair, you just washed it. You can't do a thing with it.
A few spritzes of that will give it a bit of oomph.
And I think that's all some people need.
Sometimes they don't want a big do or they don't want to spend
an hour on it. Literally 30 seconds will do it.
So that that's our that's our leader.
So I could just in the evening before going out.
You could, absolutely. Squirt this in, yeah.
I mean you, you blow dry. Absolutely.
Just upside down, a few spritzes and then you kind of keep sort
of, I mean, I'm doing it on my own hair obviously.
You kind of just keep reactivating with your hands.
Go go to the loo with your head upside, Don't shake your hands a
little. Out you come.
God, I love the sound of that. Now I also read about these
wipes for our fringes or for the front of our hair.
We call them cleanse clothes. We stay away from the word wipes
because it has all these negative connotations.
Retake cleanse clothes. No, no, it's fine.
But they are wipes. But we they're they're they are
completely biodegradable. Yeah, we had been.
They've been on the cards for a while, but we couldn't really do
them because of the microplastic thing, and I wasn't really
comfortable with that. Just on hair before we go on to
you and your style, I I know so many women who have complained
about losing hair as a result of of COVID.
Do you think there are any really good anti hair loss
products out there? I would say everyone's different
and I would say yes there are, but I would also say you need to
go and see a doctor. I would say go and see a
trichologist, go and see a specialist or or ask your own
doctor, because quite often hair loss is what's often menopausal,
pausal. So there's often ways to treat
that. But it can often be diet, it can
often be a vitamin deficiency. So it could be shock, it could
be so many different things and there's not one cure fits all.
It it's not like it's very it's very individual.
I mean I I was, I went to have some medical tests a year ago
and the receptionist had lost all her hair after COVID, you
know, but it was coming. I could reassure her because I
could I she couldn't see but I could see there was sort of an
inch where it was coming back but the ends of her hair were
almost non existent and and she she that made her suffer from
shock even more So it it can be a vicious cycle but it was
coming back in so I I I could say to her that looks like it's
from COVID and it is coming back in so every everyone is
different, yeah, yeah. You're so at the forefront of
fashion. What would you consider, What do
you think is going to be the next major hair trend?
We've reached a point, I think, where it's almost unfashionable
to follow trends. You know, it's about
individuality. And that's come across in the
fashion world in the last, what, 10 years or so from fashion
shows where before you'd have 100 girls with all with the same
hairstyle that has started to move into a much more healthy,
diverse place. I'm not saying there's anything
wrong with that because sometimes it's theater and if if
the costume demands that everyone has it, it's quite,
it's quite a beautiful thing. But it was the norm before.
Whereas I think now it's much more than norm to have many,
many different types of women represented or men.
And I think that goes for hair and makeup too, because some
people look great with a lot of makeup, some people don't.
And I think we're in a very, very good place now where people
are being encouraged to embrace their own individual looks.
Does that make sense? Yes, yeah, absolutely.
I'm not trying to avoid, I'm not because because I I just don't
think of course there's a little micro trends of things here and
there and there always will be. But I think slavishly following
fashion trends is terribly unfashionable there.
You can quote me on that one. Yeah, yeah.
No, I totally, totally agree with you.
Especially in in hair and beauty because because I think hair and
make up is so specific to the person and the person's needs.
Yeah, I mean on that point, you famously created Princess
Diana's iconic wet look hair for the CFDA Awards in New York,
which I just thought was absolutely sensational at the
time. And you know, the look was more,
the hair look was more talked about than the dress, which
again was pretty unusual. How did How did that moment
feel? Well, I, you know, I had slipped
her hair back on various photo shoots with Patrick Dumaslier.
Yeah for the a few years but but she was always a little she was
very aware of the you know the her public.
She was very aware that the public wanted to see Princess
Diana and she knew that the Ferrara change in a hairstyle
would cause. So she was very she was very
careful about how and when she kind of did those and yeah that
was well that was one of her it was New York.
So I I kind of you know what we got to we got to kind of really
sort of sharpen it up for New York.
We've got to keep changing with I'm a great believer in change
and come on we can we can do this And we did it.
Yeah. And it was good.
It was good. I mean we there are some
pictures where she had her hair slicked back over the but that
was the first time really in public, you know?
Yeah, I mean, you worked as her personal stylist for seven
years. Did she ever ask your opinion on
on the clothes? Oh God, yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I met her in 1990, so 80s were
kind of behind and. Thank God.
Yeah, well, but actually when you look at all the 80 stuff
now, it kind of, you know, yeah, in retrospect that looked great,
youthful, all that kind of stuff.
But we were in 1990, we were August 1990 or July 1990, and I
was just after we had just after I had met.
I had met her on a ship for Vogue.
It was it ended up being a really sort of iconic image of
AI. Can't remember the designer as a
trapless white silk gown. And Patrick sat her on the floor
and it was very informal and we put a TR on and I made her hair
look short. But I I didn't cut it.
I made a little short and the pictures are so great of Big
smile. I've got one of the fridge
magnet now which which which I treasure.
And so at the end of the shoot, she asked me what I would do
with the hair. And I said, you know what, it's
1990, maybe move into the 90s because it was it had become the
era. Because don't forget, I was,
I've been working for Vogue for 15 years, 13 years by then.
So, you know, I was in the whole swing of the thing.
And I think, I think we got to, you know, sharpen it up.
We went to Paris just after that because I'd cut go back.
We shot the white dress and then she said what would you do with
my hair if I just said do anything?
This was at the end of the shoot after we're finished and we she
was so great, we had, we had such a good day.
She was so funny and lovely. And she was fantastic.
To work she was. Just.
Great, she was. She we laughed a lot.
She had a a great, irreverent Nazi sense of humor.
Anyway, so and those laughs and Patrick's pictures are really
genuine, you know, because she didn't have a clue what he was
saying because you couldn't understand his accent.
So I had to translate and we were just peeing ourselves
laughing, not literally. So I said I just cut it all off
and starts again. So we cut it, cut it all off
short hair off. I went to Paris and the world
kind of went insane for this new shirt haircut.
I mean, it took me by surprise because I wasn't particularly a
royalist. I wasn't I'm not a big fan.
I did you know, not that I wasn't a fan but I just wasn't
aware. And so anyway that then I got a
call to say would I would I come and do it again and would I
prepare to maybe do a few trips. And so I managed to balance that
with my with my other high fashion life for seven years and
that was that. My God.
That was when I think back in the.
I don't know how I did that. I don't know how I managed to
travel and called. Youth.
It's called youth. I wasn't that young.
Actually, I wasn't my I was in my 30s.
It is called Youth through you're Absolutely.
Anyway, so off we went to Paris. We shot the couture with Patrick
and Christy Sterling just was wearing this really beautiful
blue beaded Versace gown and Christy said my God, the
Princess would look amazing and that.
So I took the Polaroid to her and Long story short Anna Harvey
and myself got her hooked up with Donatella and they went on
and actually Johnny at the time and they want it went on.
He went on to make her the most fantastic, you know, block color
acids, sharp like pin sharp suits with this new shorts sort
of I mean you know the power shoulders I mean business phase
which was which kind of, you know, it was a big step from and
I didn't know the time, the changes she was going through
personally, you know, you can't is that?
But I guess it brought her into a new independent era.
Does that make sense? Absolutely.
I mean, they always say that if you have major changes in your
life as a woman, you sometimes change your hair with it.
And it it strikes me that maybe I wonder if the hair came first
and then the style evolved after that.
It's. Probably all parts of a general.
I mean, she was, she had become thirty.
She was probably growing up, you know, you know, I know.
I forget growing up at the 30 kid she was when she.
Yeah, absolutely. Down the aisle.
Absolutely. I mean in life is life for all
of us is about. I mean the only constant in life
is change, right? And that and I'm a great
believe, an an embracer of that about not staying, not staying
still and not staying the same. I mean, we can't, even if we try
to, we. Can't but I'm I am actually a
big believer in chapters and how and that that's a wonderful.
Thing that we it's nice when the chapters sort of evolve rather
what's not so nice is when you're abruptly forced into
something and and you know when they when they evolve.
It's quite It's beautiful, isn't it?
Yeah. Beautiful.
Yes, and can be quite shocking I I can say personally, but today
we're going on a on a personal style journey about you.
So let's start with how did you decide what you were wearing
here today? I was short sleeve shirts and
shorts up until last week. I went to Sicily to a beautiful
wedding at the weekend with the brother was fantastic and I came
back and I thought, now it's time to get my long trousers and
a jumper on, you know, because the weather has been incredible.
It's been amazing. Wow.
Maybe not the middle of the summer, but the last couple of
months has been amazing. So I have moved into sweater
weather. Sweater weather, I can't say.
That So who's your sweater? My sweater is probably 20 years
old from Etro and I used to do their shows and I think we used
to get a discount. So I would go and buy some stuff
and I have a couple of these, which I I mean, 20 years is not
bad. Gorgeous.
Yeah. Yeah, it's great.
You grew up in Scotland? I did.
Were you exposed to fashion at a young age?
Did you have a dapper dad? No, no, no I I think, I mean I'm
from a very working class. I'm from a a council estate and
then in the middle of the Scottish beautiful Scottish
lowland hills which was surrounded by mining
communities. My dad worked in a coal mine and
my mom worked in the Co-op till she retires.
And I mean, we were really poor, but we didn't really know we're
poor because everyone else was. So it was kind of normal for us.
And we know we didn't really have much.
We were OK, we were all right. We we we did.
Not too bad. But I think I was born in 1955,
so I'm the original television generation, so I have vivid
memories. We didn't have ATV.
My granny had one and it was The Beatles and The Rolling Stones
and Top of the Pops and J Watts jewelry and all that stuff.
So I we were fed by the media, fashion and the 60s.
It was the 60s. It was the sort of birth, the
the rebirth of this country after the war really.
So we were fed this sort of amazing diet on TV of fashion
and style, I mean just constantly.
I mean, UK was the most, the most fashion forward stylist
place to be in the 60s. I mean when you, when you think
back, there were shops in London like B Bar and Chelsea Girls in
the 60s, I mean the High Street fashion was in full swing.
When did you first come to London and discover fashion?
I came on holiday in the early 70s, but I had got really
switched on to coming. Top of the Pops was our sort of
you know, just the the, the, the Holy Grail, wasn't it?
Yeah. And seeing David Bowie and Mark
Bowlin and people like that on top of the box switched on Top
of the box switched on a light and we would go to unfortunately
50 miles from Glasgow, we would make day trips to Glasgow to go
to the boutiques and buy things and platform shoes like that
size. So we were, I mean I think UK
still like that. There are so many fashion tribes
and yeah it's it's it's kids, teenagers, but it's probably
like that all over the world now are very into their look you
know. And Glasgow was is an incredibly
fashionable. I mean, Scottish people really
are into fashion and beauty, yeah, Yeah.
Yeah, but when would you say, do you, do you remember a specific
moment, a specific outfit that you put on but you went, God, I
feel good in this. God, I I remember in early 70s
where and I bought an Oxford bags and a jacket with huge
lapels and platform shoes. I meant talking that size and
just thought I was it, you know and I was learning to drive and
I had to take a wear slippers to the driving lessons and I was
probably. I was 17, yeah.
And where And I thought I'd look fucking cool.
I just look great, you know, I thought.
And that probably said, I was young and thin, you know?
That was your sort of light bulb fashion moment, would you say
when you started to think, God, this is pretty cool.
Yeah, I I realized it could make you feel good.
No good clothes can make you feel good.
I was like, I I I appreciate. I appreciate more and more as I
got older, Good quality clothes too, and clothes that last and
20 years. You know, you are obviously
surrounded by fashion and glamour and style every day, but
does this inspire your personal style?
I mean I don't go go through a rail at on a shoot and pick
things out and think oh I'm going to buy this and I'm going
to like because I I don't think I I I'm not I'm not so much
inspired by fashion as inspired by style if if that makes sense.
You know I I I I really admire people who have who can really
throw something together and make it look really good on them
you know. So I'm I fashion is if it's
almost fashion has become fashion and style have become
sort of it's a bit of a fork in the road whereas it used to go
together. I think, I I think fashion in a
way has become Instagram friendly whereas style is is
perennial you know style is it's at last forever and maybe it's
an age thing but I'm drawn to to timeless style rather than
seasonal fashion if that makes sense.
But I feel in the zeitgeist that the world is coming to that too,
you know? Yeah, do you have a style icon?
I I'm not, not sure I have a single icon, but but when you
see incredibly stylish images from the 70s of, you know, Mick
Jagger and and making Bianca Jagger for instance, I mean that
that just goes on forever, you know?
And I think that is really and quite incredible how those have
stood the test of time, you know?
Those images have been on countless mood boards.
Haven't. They Absolutely.
And and then and and then there's Kate Moss, which brings
me to Kate. So still, when we go to do a a
shoot or a show, there will be pictures of Kate on almost every
there'll there'll be Mick Jagger and Bianca Jagger, there'll be a
Twiggy and there'll be Kate. You know, that's the kind of
level Kate's influence has reached.
I mean, you have an incredibly close relationship with Kate
and. Yeah, we've known each other a
long time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and and you know,
she's often quoted as saying you've got the magic touch and
you and you as creating her lovely effort.
Well, I'm not sure I created it, but I can't.
I I I mean, it is her. It is.
It is, you know, she. She is that kind of epitome of
style, you know, She really is. She's got an incredible stun.
She's she's mostly vintage to be honest.
Yeah. My friend used to be the PR at
Bieber back in the day in the 70s, and one of her oldest
friends is. It was a Bieber girl who passed
away recently and there were some clothes which were in
perfect condition and they fitted Kate perfectly and she
looks absolutely amazing in them.
So I think she kind of probably is, yeah, she got to be one of
my top style icons, really, you know?
Yeah, you've been quoted as saying hair is an important tool
for expressing ourselves and how we feel.
How do you feel about your hair, your facial hair?
Tell me about that. Well, I don't have any hair, but
I never had a you. Do you?
But you shave it. Yeah, but I don't have my, I
mean, I don't have any on top. I never had a complex about
losing my hair. I had the best hair.
I my hair was down to here. I know I had feather cuts,
palms, pink hair, blue. I had the whole thing.
I had the longest hair in school when I was a teenager.
I had a really good head of dark Celtic dark hair spoken straight
and and I loved it, but I lost it gradually.
I didn't lose it. I mean I feel for people who
suddenly lose their hair in their early 20s, but my mind
didn't really go to my late 30s. And I remember, I remember when
I knew it was really going. I bleached it for a year and I
thought, I'm going to enjoy this, you know and and I love
that. It was last.
Hurrah, it was just great. All of those other styles that
you were talking about, you know the the pink, the perm.
Did you do any of that yourself? Yeah, I used to.
Well, because I mean, I it was before I was a hairdresser, so
and and you couldn't really buy Crazy Colour.
So what we used to use is we used to bleach it because my
friend was a hairdresser, she'd bleach it and we used we'd buy a
set of felt it pens and squeeze them out and yeah, but if you
got caught in the rain, which it did a lot in Scotland, it ran
down your collar, you know. But we loved it.
We thought we looked great, you know, yellow colours and all,
blue colours and all. Love the idea of that you work
on shows of some of the best brands and designers in the
world. Do you think you ever adapt your
style to the designer you're working with?
No, no. I wear what I feel, feel like
wearing that day, you know, to be honest.
Yeah. No I I.
How about when you were attending the royal tresses?
Did you feel the need to be a little bit more formal?
It would depend if it was just if it was just at Kensington
Palace in the morning and it was a hot July day, I'd wear a pair
of shorts, you know? But if I at the beginning I wore
a tie and then I can't, you know, then I kind of quickly.
I saw some pictures of you. But I think if I, if I, if we're
if we're a function, or if we were, there were going to be
dignatures around how we would be respectful.
I was a big Levi Five O 1's wearer back in the day, and I'd
just love a pair of jeans on or a pair of chinos and I would
wear, I don't know, I still have a nice collection of Hermes ties
and, you know, I but I liked wearing a tie and, you know, I I
mean, I do occasionally like wearing a tie.
So I mean, I I I think, I I think I'm a respectful dresser,
if that makes sense. Talking Hermes, I know you're a
keen gardener. I have this vision of you in an
Hermes leather apron in your garden.
No, no. No, no, no, no, no.
I What's the gardening kit? What's?
The gardening kit. God, I'm probably saying the
wrong word. Ajilay.
And I've got a sort of tool belt and yeah, I'm quite, I'm quite
often out there in the summer in my boxer shorts and.
And the tool belt. Bare feet, Yeah.
I mean, I love bare feet. I love not having shoes on.
The old thing. Yeah, it's amazing, Yeah.
It is amazing, isn't it? In 2023, you were awarded an
MBE. Congratulations.
Thank you very much. What did you wear to the palace?
I wore a dress, van notes and suit which I bought in a sale.
I mean most of my stuff. I would I I I'm not a fan of
paying full price for rent. I'll I'll buy stuff on sale.
I love comedy. Garson and but I always wait for
the sale, you know, Anyway, so I wear dress, find out in suits
and I think a company goes on tie.
Well, congratulations. I always think that as human
beings, and particularly in the fashion world, we're a little
guilty of sizing people up when we first meet them, especially
by what they're wearing. Is this something you're
conscious of? Do you look at someone's whole
look, or do you find yourself looking at someone's hair?
I don't look at their hair usually.
I think I probably over the years developed an automatic
switch off where people think that I would be looking at their
hair and I don't want them to think that.
So I generally don't unless it's to do because when I'm not in
work mode I'm not really looking.
I'm not looking if I'm in work mode or you sit in front of me
or unless your hair is really bad, then I may offer some
advice, you know, but I don't want to really be presumptuous
like that. But I think we're definitely, I
mean I I definitely, it's all about images that that's first
impression is lasting impression as they say.
And I think, yeah, I tend to have a look at the shoes.
Yeah, I tend to have a look at the shoes.
Scuffed, dirty shoes. So is it more about the
cleanliness of the shoe or is it the statement of the shoe?
It depends what I think. A scuffed, dirty, like horrible,
uncared for shoe I think can probably tell a lot about a
person. And there's a difference between
scuffed, dirty, uncared for than scuffed, dirty, deliberate
golden goose. Do you know what I mean?
How would you describe your style in three words?
Oh, probably Eclectic. Eclectic.
Bold. Timeless.
I always think that men get more distinguished as they get older
and suit their lines. Would you?
No, I'm not saying you've got lines, Sam, but would you ever
consider any form of age prevention, buttocks or?
Oh, I do a bit of Botox now and again.
I mean, I used to do it here because it tightens here, but
now it's kind of too far gone. But men have the luxury of
beards, so it's fine. But you know what?
I I some of my friends were trying to get me to have a hair
transplant, and I'm like, you know what?
No, I mean that would just be ridiculous to me to turn up like
this. But I would consider, I would
consider a sort of half facelift.
The wrinkles. I don't mind.
It's it's this. It's the jaw.
It's the jowl, the the, the, the under.
And there's nothing really you can do about that.
But I think, yeah, but the Botox is fine.
You know, I don't mind the wrinkle up to.
I mean, do you know what? I have good skin.
I mean, I'm not bad. I'm, I'm, you know, well into my
69th year. So I'm OK.
I'm all right. But I'm.
I'm too much of A coward to do a facelift.
Yeah. You know, I just think, oh.
God, you look like you look after your skin really well.
I have good skin. I I I you know I I have
psoriasis, so I have it in my fingernails.
I have a little spot behind me but since I had COVID it
disappeared. But but my actually skin, my
skin is. I'm lucky.
I have quite good skin. With you obviously working with
the hair so much, are you very conscious of how your hands
look? I am, but I have little short,
stubby sausage fingers with a bit of arthritis and psoriasis
of my fingernails and I, you know, I had to get over myself
about that, you know? Do you ever have a manicure?
I did. You know what?
I had a manicure. I have a manicure at work
sometimes and I had one couple of weeks ago.
And because what what people think, I bite my nails, but I
don't my nails flake off because of the psoriasis.
So I clipped them down, you know, because otherwise it's not
nice doing people's hairy nails like you know.
So I clipped them down and this lady gave me a manicure and I'd
noticed that my nails were the best they've been for many,
many, many years. Because I because I, you know,
they I, I. So I didn't clip them down so
much and actually they were OK and they didn't flake off.
So I think they might be. I don't know if they'll get
better, but yeah, I do have manicure sometimes.
Spinning back to your wardrobe, how much do you plan your looks?
I'm always fascinated by how much men think about their
clothes in terms of because I I think women think about their
clothes a lot. Do men think about their clothes
as much? I don't think I don't plan
anything really, unless I've got a big event coming up.
I need to see if my my tuxedo fits me, which it actually
doesn't, so I need to get a new one.
But I tell you what I find difficult at the moment.
I have a lot of clothes I had. I had even more clothes.
I had 9 wardrobe boxes that followed me around everywhere
I've ever lived. And the last move I thought, no,
we can't do this. And they were full of Gautier
Com and a lot of Vivienne Westwood because I've worked
with Vivienne for many, many years and I had a lot of pieces
made and three pieces from the women's fabrics in the 90s.
I still had all of those and they were beautiful, beautiful
pieces. They were incredible.
And I sold them all at auction a few years ago at Kerry Taylor's
and gave half the money to to Vivian's charity and half the
money to beauty banks, which are charity set up by a friend of
mine. And that felt really good.
It felt really, really good that because because they were all in
these boxes and it was it was time for somebody to have them.
Yeah. Out of interest, did you sell
them as yours? Yeah, yeah.
But how brilliant. I did and and I have.
I still have too many clothes and I I this is one of my tasks
for the winter. When the when the the, you know,
in the dark, rainy days, I'm going to go through the
wardrobes and get rid of a load of stuff that I don't wear and
give them away. You know, stuff that doesn't
fit. I don't wear it.
I've hadn't worn it for five years.
You know within there will be some things I keep, but I need
AI need a big old clean out. Quite cathartic.
Yeah, it is, isn't it? You travel a lot.
Do you have a particular look that you reach for again and
again to travel in? You need clothes, sweatpants or
Lululemon shorts depending on the the season.
And I'll have AI think we've got J Crews that are safari jacket
thing and I'll have and a Fred Perry that and and sometimes a
sweatshirt in my bag. Easy, easy, easy travel stuff,
you know? What luggage do you use?
I use to me. Are you a good Packer?
I use to me and I use a Japanese brand called Porter and some of
that, they're soft bags and they're they're like flight
jackets, you know they're nylon with orange inside and some of
those bags I've had for 20 odd years and they're incredible.
That's sustainable. It's amazing.
Would you say you're a good Packer?
Sometimes I I went to Sicily, to a wedding at the weekend, and I
took far too many clothes. I mean, because I couldn't.
I I wasn't quite sure about the weather.
I didn't know and that was ridiculous, but.
That's so refreshing to hear because I always think men are
sort of much more edited about their.
Packaging. No.
I was really bad on this one. Usually I am, but I was bad on
this one so I yeah. Do you have a favorite brand or
tailor that you revert to again and again?
I I've never had a suit made. I I would probably like to do
that. Who do you think you would go
to? I.
Don't know. I need to research that.
I I don't know because I have. I have quite a long waisted
short legs, so off the peg stuff I always have to have, always
have to have altered. I do love a dress Van Noten
suits and I've got some old margella suits that I love, but
I've never had a suit tailored. I would love to do that.
I think it must be the most incredible experience that whole
sample road to be done it. May be expensively addictive
though, right? I think, well, I think the cut,
if if the cut is good, of course, that's what I mean,
transformative. There'd be now going back.
Transformative to your body, your shape, your and and then
your posture changes. Yeah, to a degree, I think.
I don't wear formal things very much.
I'm much more. I'm much more.
It's about comfort for me, you know, I'm much more at ease in a
nice wool or cashmere sweater. And I I said a bright colored
shirt or you know it. It is about ease.
But as I've got older, I really like like a bold color or a bold
pattern, you know? Interesting.
Or. Or a bolt, you know.
A little hint of something you know.
Did you ever justify anything expensive as a pounds per wear?
I've got a Montclair jacket. It's not the puffy jacket, it's
more of a it looks more like an old product thing.
It's nylon. Technical.
And it's it's like a it's like a policeman's jacket with a four
you know it's almost Barbara like and it is the warmest
thing. It's I I've had it.
I must have had it for God almost 20 years and it's still
my winter coat because I've never found.
I'm always looking for placement and I've never found one to
replace it. So it just it keeps coming out
do. You feel like you need to
replace it in this? Yeah, it's just start.
It's just starting to wear around the edge of it.
It's been the most incredible thing, and I remember thinking
that it was quite expensive at the time, thinking a lot of
money. Hello.
Good value. Really good value, Yeah.
On the on the point of value and values, what do you what's your
approach to sustainable fashion? Yeah, great.
But I it's it's does it work? Does it do the job, does it
last? Can you get the colors?
I mean, fashion by its nature isn't sustainable, you know,
because it's, it's about renewal, isn't it?
You know, I think it's all about everyone doing their part.
I mean, I'm as guilty as everyone about buying a 799
shirt from H&M. But having said that, that 17799
shirt from H&M I've had for 10 years, you know, I'm not one for
buying something knowing I'm only going to wear it once.
You know, when I was a teenager, you would never buy something
that you could only wear once. It just would, was not in your
mindset. But it's about changing
mindsets. Really isn't.
It yeah, absolutely. What would you say is the oldest
piece in your wardrobe? I still you know I I did ATV
show last year on Channel 4 and I wore all my own clothes and I
I took a few in for the wardrobe to sort of look at and and they
picked some things out and I put one of the shirts on that do you
know how old this is and it I said this is this is probably 30
years old this shirt you know and I still wear it you know and
and that is that's kind of that that gives me great pleasure.
Would you say you look after your clothes?
I do. I do look after them?
Yeah, I do. All beautifully laid out.
Oh, maybe not so beautifully, but they're all kind of they're
all hanging out. They're all some of the stuff
that I need to protect is in plastic bags with, you know,
moth repellents and that kind of thing.
You know, I'm quite fastidious with the moth repellents, but
yeah, I do. I I think This is why I want to
get rid of a load of stuff, because the wardrobes are
getting too packed as they're all getting squashed and now
that's something you have to go. Here, yeah, it's just not kind
on clothes, and it is a. But you have an emotional
attached to them. Sometimes you have this kind of
I've got to Kashmir and Mark Jacobs jumpers that I've had,
that I bought in Century 21 in New York in the 90s and they're
never going to fit me again. And but they're they're there
because I I I wore them a lot and they're amazing.
But there's a few things I need to let go of.
Do you have any pieces in your wardrobe that have particular
sentimental value attached to them?
I have some Hermes ties that I wore on special on formal
occasions with Princess Diana. And I have.
I have one from the first day I met her, which I'm wearing in a
picture with her that Patrick took.
And I still have that. So yes, I do.
Would you ever frame it or do something with it to just sort
of mark mark the moment? No, I'd never.
I don't know if that might be a little weird.
I don't know. Yeah, it's.
Just yours. Yeah, lovely.
Right. Let's turn to some quick fire
questions. What fashion advice would you
give your 20 year old self? Keep going?
Absolutely. You're doing the right thing.
Which fashion trend would you most like to see make a
comeback? None.
I don't want to see fashion trends.
I want to see people doing their own thing.
Views on tattoos. I don't have any tattoos and I
struggle to see the beauty in over tattooing.
High End or High Street? High end.
Sports Lux or rock'n'roll? Rock'n'roll.
You. Know what now?
I take that back. I I, I, I mix of both.
Sports. And roll.
Sports and roll. Love that Savile Row or jeans?
It would have to be jeans. But about to be Savile Row
maybe? Maybe Cargo Zorchinos?
She knows. Double breasted.
Single breasted. Single.
Trend or style? Style.
Colour or monochrome colour pattern or plain?
Bit of both. Hoarder or editor or hoarder?
Charity shop or resale Charity shop boxes or briefs.
Briefs, Boxer briefs, Boxer briefs.
About you smugglers or board shorts?
Board shorts. Beanie or baseball cap?
Definitely, Beanie. Finally, one last question.
At the end of the day, what do you or don't you wear in bed?
I wear a pair of boxer shorts in bed just in case there's a fire.
Sam, what fun to sit here with you on this particularly noisy
day and have this wonderful conversation about all things
style and fashion. Thank you for being here.
Thanks for having me. Great fun.