1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,440 Welcome to Style DNA, the podcast I created to uncover the 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,120 lives behind the looks of your favorite well known faces and 3 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:17,120 help unveil their style DNA. As a designer, I've always been 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,280 inspired by the premise that wearing the right pieces should 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,600 make you feel the best version of yourself, gorgeous and 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,880 confident, and that these pieces should be designed and crafted 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,560 for longevity. I'm delighted to share that this 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,560 episode is supported by Karen Millen, a brand that has a 42 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,320 year legacy in the world of fashion. 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,000 Their commitment to affordable luxury and making investment 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,080 pieces accessible has truly stood the test of time. 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,600 Whether you're searching for a timeless winter coat that will 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,360 serve you for years to come or an elegant evening dress, you'll 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,560 find both classic and modern designs that are perfect for 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,800 refreshing your wardrobe. For the season ahead, 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,320 online@karenmillan.com head over to my Instagram for a link to a 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:09,360 special treat for listeners. Today I'm going on a sartorial 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,280 journey with iconic hair stylist Sam McKnight, who is renowned 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,720 for creating the hair looks that every woman wants, from his 20 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,840 signature cool Girl effortlessly undone textured hair to his 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,280 fashionably timeless elevated looks that reflect his 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,280 rebellious spirit to his handmade couture wigs to red 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,960 carpet sophistication. As Kate Moss says, Sam has the 24 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:35,600 magic touch. Sam's unparalleled portfolio of 25 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,440 work reads like a who's who of high fashion and a list 26 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,000 celebrity. From Princess Diana to the 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,640 supermodels Lyndra Evangelista, Christy Turlington, Kate Moss 28 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,120 and Naomi Campbell, Sam has presided over iconic fashion 29 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,800 moments of the past four decades and continues to be responsible 30 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,840 for culture defining hair looks that make him one of the most in 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,360 demand artists. To date, Sam's work has included 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,240 over 200 Vogue covers campaigns for Chanel, Tom Ford, Fendi, 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,880 Louis Vuitton, Dior and Armani editorial shoots in 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,800 collaboration with great image makers such as Nick Knight, 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,400 Irving Penn, Tim Walker and Saul Sunspo. 36 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Season after season he influences the evolution of hair 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,280 runway shows for Chanel, Vivienne Westwood, Mosquito, 38 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,640 Therese Van Note and Fendi, Richard Quinn, and Ballman in 39 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,400 collaborations with artists such as Charlotte Tilbury, Val 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,760 Garland, Mary Greenwell, Pat McGrath, and Peter Phillips. 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,640 In 2017, Sam launched a product range Hair by Sam McKnight, and 42 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:39,720 in 2023 he was awarded an MBE for services to the fashion and 43 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:44,040 beauty industries. Wow, hello and welcome, Sam. 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:45,680 Oh, that was a bit of a mouthful. 45 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,480 Wasn't it It? It's quite a mouthful, but what 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:54,440 an amazing catalogue of work. I mean, absolutely incredible. 47 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,560 I feel quite humbled to be sitting there here in your 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,520 presence, and I know you're a man that keeps himself really 49 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,720 super busy, but what are, what are the projects that you're 50 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,440 most excited about at the moment? 51 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,960 At the moment I mean we just we just kind of did a major 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,240 relaunch last year and we added care to our collection. 53 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,280 So we've spent the last year really sort of honing our 54 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:24,600 production company and our our product company rather and 55 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,320 that's pretty much a full time job that's pretty that keeps us 56 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,920 so busy because it's never ending the the demand for 57 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:37,440 content is is like a giant you know great white shark isn't it 58 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,360 just eats up content And so we have we have an amazing studio 59 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,440 that we moved into a couple of years ago which is a photo 60 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,200 studio and so we set out there all the time. 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,000 So we can do, we can just go in and we can react to something, 62 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,080 react some news or something straight away when I can go in 63 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,880 and film myself or we can get a model in at the last minute or 64 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:04,320 or one of the team, because I think it's all about the 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,560 content, isn't it? So as well as doing the fashion 66 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,800 shows, the photo shoots the red carpets. 67 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,600 We've now added our own content library to to our weekly chores. 68 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,519 It is relentless, isn't it? But I do. 69 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:27,000 I do love the way that you're teaching people, she says. 70 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,480 Look at my hair today. Yeah, looks great. 71 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,520 How to do the hair and and I think that's just brilliant. 72 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,040 Well, the whole idea of when we started the product company was 73 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,480 I wanted to kind of demystify the hair world and take this 74 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:49,440 sort of take the negative conversation away and make it 75 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,440 more positive. Because people would sit in my 76 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,600 chair that, oh, my hair is the worst thing because they've been 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,680 told that their hair is really bad and most people's hair isn't 78 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,600 really bad. It's just you haven't been doing 79 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,440 it properly. You I have a thing in my head 80 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:12,360 where people are a that given a negative conversation about 81 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,000 their hair and not focusing on the positive and they're giving. 82 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,760 So, so, so it's kind of feeding on people's insecurities, 83 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:26,640 whereas I'm all about the opposite of making the absolute 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,160 best of what you have. Yeah, that's all we've got, 85 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:30,520 really. So you might as well make the 86 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,640 best of it. It's not about feeling bad about 87 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,120 what you don't have. It's about feeling good about 88 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,560 what you do have and how to make the best of what you have and 89 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,160 how not to be kind of threatened by the perfection you see online 90 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,160 because there's all this idea of you must be this perfect. 91 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,240 But that's not the case for most people, because then also all 92 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,400 that perfection is probably filtered or fake somehow. 93 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,560 And I think I I want to make my products about products that 94 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,560 actually work very easily, very simply and very quickly. 95 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:09,680 So we're trying to take the sort of the drama and the negativity 96 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,040 out of the conversation. So which would be your hero 97 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,080 product in the? Race Our Hero product is our 98 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,960 Cool Girl texture spray. We've called it barely their 99 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,040 texture mess because it's super light. 100 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,080 It's super effective. It's instant. 101 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,560 It's a great volumizer. It's a great texturizer. 102 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:28,800 It does lots of different things. 103 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:34,040 But I and I, it's that kind of thing where if you have sort of 104 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,280 fine hair, you just washed it. You can't do a thing with it. 105 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,440 A few spritzes of that will give it a bit of oomph. 106 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,400 And I think that's all some people need. 107 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,320 Sometimes they don't want a big do or they don't want to spend 108 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,800 an hour on it. Literally 30 seconds will do it. 109 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,440 So that that's our that's our leader. 110 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,800 So I could just in the evening before going out. 111 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,960 You could, absolutely. Squirt this in, yeah. 112 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,360 I mean you, you blow dry. Absolutely. 113 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,720 Just upside down, a few spritzes and then you kind of keep sort 114 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,680 of, I mean, I'm doing it on my own hair obviously. 115 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:11,240 You kind of just keep reactivating with your hands. 116 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Go go to the loo with your head upside, Don't shake your hands a 117 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,080 little. Out you come. 118 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,960 God, I love the sound of that. Now I also read about these 119 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,960 wipes for our fringes or for the front of our hair. 120 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,080 We call them cleanse clothes. We stay away from the word wipes 121 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,320 because it has all these negative connotations. 122 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,840 Retake cleanse clothes. No, no, it's fine. 123 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,960 But they are wipes. But we they're they're they are 124 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,680 completely biodegradable. Yeah, we had been. 125 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,000 They've been on the cards for a while, but we couldn't really do 126 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,200 them because of the microplastic thing, and I wasn't really 127 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,000 comfortable with that. Just on hair before we go on to 128 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,640 you and your style, I I know so many women who have complained 129 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,880 about losing hair as a result of of COVID. 130 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,520 Do you think there are any really good anti hair loss 131 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,480 products out there? I would say everyone's different 132 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,160 and I would say yes there are, but I would also say you need to 133 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,040 go and see a doctor. I would say go and see a 134 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,640 trichologist, go and see a specialist or or ask your own 135 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,520 doctor, because quite often hair loss is what's often menopausal, 136 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,280 pausal. So there's often ways to treat 137 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,520 that. But it can often be diet, it can 138 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,960 often be a vitamin deficiency. So it could be shock, it could 139 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:39,320 be so many different things and there's not one cure fits all. 140 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,600 It it's not like it's very it's very individual. 141 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:48,120 I mean I I was, I went to have some medical tests a year ago 142 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:53,680 and the receptionist had lost all her hair after COVID, you 143 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:57,880 know, but it was coming. I could reassure her because I 144 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,760 could I she couldn't see but I could see there was sort of an 145 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,800 inch where it was coming back but the ends of her hair were 146 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:09,840 almost non existent and and she she that made her suffer from 147 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,680 shock even more So it it can be a vicious cycle but it was 148 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:17,160 coming back in so I I I could say to her that looks like it's 149 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:22,560 from COVID and it is coming back in so every everyone is 150 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:27,040 different, yeah, yeah. You're so at the forefront of 151 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,760 fashion. What would you consider, What do 152 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,080 you think is going to be the next major hair trend? 153 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:39,080 We've reached a point, I think, where it's almost unfashionable 154 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,600 to follow trends. You know, it's about 155 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:44,080 individuality. And that's come across in the 156 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,200 fashion world in the last, what, 10 years or so from fashion 157 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,200 shows where before you'd have 100 girls with all with the same 158 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:01,440 hairstyle that has started to move into a much more healthy, 159 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,920 diverse place. I'm not saying there's anything 160 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,960 wrong with that because sometimes it's theater and if if 161 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,280 the costume demands that everyone has it, it's quite, 162 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,520 it's quite a beautiful thing. But it was the norm before. 163 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:23,080 Whereas I think now it's much more than norm to have many, 164 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,480 many different types of women represented or men. 165 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,120 And I think that goes for hair and makeup too, because some 166 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,480 people look great with a lot of makeup, some people don't. 167 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,240 And I think we're in a very, very good place now where people 168 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,640 are being encouraged to embrace their own individual looks. 169 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,880 Does that make sense? Yes, yeah, absolutely. 170 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,520 I'm not trying to avoid, I'm not because because I I just don't 171 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,440 think of course there's a little micro trends of things here and 172 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,960 there and there always will be. But I think slavishly following 173 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,880 fashion trends is terribly unfashionable there. 174 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,240 You can quote me on that one. Yeah, yeah. 175 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,640 No, I totally, totally agree with you. 176 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,600 Especially in in hair and beauty because because I think hair and 177 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,160 make up is so specific to the person and the person's needs. 178 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,240 Yeah, I mean on that point, you famously created Princess 179 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,200 Diana's iconic wet look hair for the CFDA Awards in New York, 180 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,840 which I just thought was absolutely sensational at the 181 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,440 time. And you know, the look was more, 182 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,560 the hair look was more talked about than the dress, which 183 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,480 again was pretty unusual. How did How did that moment 184 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,840 feel? Well, I, you know, I had slipped 185 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,800 her hair back on various photo shoots with Patrick Dumaslier. 186 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Yeah for the a few years but but she was always a little she was 187 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,640 very aware of the you know the her public. 188 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:55,560 She was very aware that the public wanted to see Princess 189 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:01,640 Diana and she knew that the Ferrara change in a hairstyle 190 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,000 would cause. So she was very she was very 191 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:11,560 careful about how and when she kind of did those and yeah that 192 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:15,160 was well that was one of her it was New York. 193 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,640 So I I kind of you know what we got to we got to kind of really 194 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,280 sort of sharpen it up for New York. 195 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,000 We've got to keep changing with I'm a great believer in change 196 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,560 and come on we can we can do this And we did it. 197 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:32,320 Yeah. And it was good. 198 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,200 It was good. I mean we there are some 199 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,240 pictures where she had her hair slicked back over the but that 200 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,760 was the first time really in public, you know? 201 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,240 Yeah, I mean, you worked as her personal stylist for seven 202 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,600 years. Did she ever ask your opinion on 203 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,920 on the clothes? Oh God, yeah. 204 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,600 Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I met her in 1990, so 80s were 205 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,680 kind of behind and. Thank God. 206 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,080 Yeah, well, but actually when you look at all the 80 stuff 207 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,400 now, it kind of, you know, yeah, in retrospect that looked great, 208 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,840 youthful, all that kind of stuff. 209 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:16,080 But we were in 1990, we were August 1990 or July 1990, and I 210 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,360 was just after we had just after I had met. 211 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,880 I had met her on a ship for Vogue. 212 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,720 It was it ended up being a really sort of iconic image of 213 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,760 AI. Can't remember the designer as a 214 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:34,080 trapless white silk gown. And Patrick sat her on the floor 215 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:40,480 and it was very informal and we put a TR on and I made her hair 216 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,400 look short. But I I didn't cut it. 217 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,920 I made a little short and the pictures are so great of Big 218 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,160 smile. I've got one of the fridge 219 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,360 magnet now which which which I treasure. 220 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,120 And so at the end of the shoot, she asked me what I would do 221 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,840 with the hair. And I said, you know what, it's 222 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,520 1990, maybe move into the 90s because it was it had become the 223 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,120 era. Because don't forget, I was, 224 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,480 I've been working for Vogue for 15 years, 13 years by then. 225 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,760 So, you know, I was in the whole swing of the thing. 226 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,000 And I think, I think we got to, you know, sharpen it up. 227 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,160 We went to Paris just after that because I'd cut go back. 228 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,080 We shot the white dress and then she said what would you do with 229 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,520 my hair if I just said do anything? 230 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,360 This was at the end of the shoot after we're finished and we she 231 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,640 was so great, we had, we had such a good day. 232 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,480 She was so funny and lovely. And she was fantastic. 233 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,360 To work she was. Just. 234 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,440 Great, she was. She we laughed a lot. 235 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,000 She had a a great, irreverent Nazi sense of humor. 236 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,840 Anyway, so and those laughs and Patrick's pictures are really 237 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,040 genuine, you know, because she didn't have a clue what he was 238 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,720 saying because you couldn't understand his accent. 239 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,600 So I had to translate and we were just peeing ourselves 240 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,520 laughing, not literally. So I said I just cut it all off 241 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,280 and starts again. So we cut it, cut it all off 242 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,680 short hair off. I went to Paris and the world 243 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,080 kind of went insane for this new shirt haircut. 244 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,520 I mean, it took me by surprise because I wasn't particularly a 245 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,360 royalist. I wasn't I'm not a big fan. 246 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,360 I did you know, not that I wasn't a fan but I just wasn't 247 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,360 aware. And so anyway that then I got a 248 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,360 call to say would I would I come and do it again and would I 249 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,920 prepare to maybe do a few trips. And so I managed to balance that 250 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,520 with my with my other high fashion life for seven years and 251 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,720 that was that. My God. 252 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,320 That was when I think back in the. 253 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,760 I don't know how I did that. I don't know how I managed to 254 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,080 travel and called. Youth. 255 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,160 It's called youth. I wasn't that young. 256 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,120 Actually, I wasn't my I was in my 30s. 257 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,080 It is called Youth through you're Absolutely. 258 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,840 Anyway, so off we went to Paris. We shot the couture with Patrick 259 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,080 and Christy Sterling just was wearing this really beautiful 260 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:57,720 blue beaded Versace gown and Christy said my God, the 261 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,280 Princess would look amazing and that. 262 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,200 So I took the Polaroid to her and Long story short Anna Harvey 263 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:09,200 and myself got her hooked up with Donatella and they went on 264 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,200 and actually Johnny at the time and they want it went on. 265 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,440 He went on to make her the most fantastic, you know, block color 266 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,040 acids, sharp like pin sharp suits with this new shorts sort 267 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,920 of I mean you know the power shoulders I mean business phase 268 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,440 which was which kind of, you know, it was a big step from and 269 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,880 I didn't know the time, the changes she was going through 270 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,640 personally, you know, you can't is that? 271 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:44,000 But I guess it brought her into a new independent era. 272 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,480 Does that make sense? Absolutely. 273 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,840 I mean, they always say that if you have major changes in your 274 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,040 life as a woman, you sometimes change your hair with it. 275 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,960 And it it strikes me that maybe I wonder if the hair came first 276 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,880 and then the style evolved after that. 277 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,359 It's. Probably all parts of a general. 278 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,079 I mean, she was, she had become thirty. 279 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,200 She was probably growing up, you know, you know, I know. 280 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,520 I forget growing up at the 30 kid she was when she. 281 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,119 Yeah, absolutely. Down the aisle. 282 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,000 Absolutely. I mean in life is life for all 283 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,240 of us is about. I mean the only constant in life 284 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,359 is change, right? And that and I'm a great 285 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:32,400 believe, an an embracer of that about not staying, not staying 286 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,120 still and not staying the same. I mean, we can't, even if we try 287 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,200 to, we. Can't but I'm I am actually a 288 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,320 big believer in chapters and how and that that's a wonderful. 289 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,160 Thing that we it's nice when the chapters sort of evolve rather 290 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,960 what's not so nice is when you're abruptly forced into 291 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,680 something and and you know when they when they evolve. 292 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,280 It's quite It's beautiful, isn't it? 293 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:55,520 Yeah. Beautiful. 294 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,840 Yes, and can be quite shocking I I can say personally, but today 295 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,480 we're going on a on a personal style journey about you. 296 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,440 So let's start with how did you decide what you were wearing 297 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,960 here today? I was short sleeve shirts and 298 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,400 shorts up until last week. I went to Sicily to a beautiful 299 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,520 wedding at the weekend with the brother was fantastic and I came 300 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,600 back and I thought, now it's time to get my long trousers and 301 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,040 a jumper on, you know, because the weather has been incredible. 302 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,560 It's been amazing. Wow. 303 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Maybe not the middle of the summer, but the last couple of 304 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,120 months has been amazing. So I have moved into sweater 305 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:35,280 weather. Sweater weather, I can't say. 306 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,440 That So who's your sweater? My sweater is probably 20 years 307 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:46,760 old from Etro and I used to do their shows and I think we used 308 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,720 to get a discount. So I would go and buy some stuff 309 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,320 and I have a couple of these, which I I mean, 20 years is not 310 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:51,960 bad. Gorgeous. 311 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:52,840 Yeah. Yeah, it's great. 312 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,320 You grew up in Scotland? I did. 313 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,000 Were you exposed to fashion at a young age? 314 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:04,080 Did you have a dapper dad? No, no, no I I think, I mean I'm 315 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,800 from a very working class. I'm from a a council estate and 316 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,840 then in the middle of the Scottish beautiful Scottish 317 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,120 lowland hills which was surrounded by mining 318 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,000 communities. My dad worked in a coal mine and 319 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,320 my mom worked in the Co-op till she retires. 320 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,760 And I mean, we were really poor, but we didn't really know we're 321 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,280 poor because everyone else was. So it was kind of normal for us. 322 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:29,960 And we know we didn't really have much. 323 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,840 We were OK, we were all right. We we we did. 324 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,800 Not too bad. But I think I was born in 1955, 325 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:43,480 so I'm the original television generation, so I have vivid 326 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,720 memories. We didn't have ATV. 327 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,960 My granny had one and it was The Beatles and The Rolling Stones 328 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,480 and Top of the Pops and J Watts jewelry and all that stuff. 329 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,760 So I we were fed by the media, fashion and the 60s. 330 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,720 It was the 60s. It was the sort of birth, the 331 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,760 the rebirth of this country after the war really. 332 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,960 So we were fed this sort of amazing diet on TV of fashion 333 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,840 and style, I mean just constantly. 334 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,160 I mean, UK was the most, the most fashion forward stylist 335 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,000 place to be in the 60s. I mean when you, when you think 336 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,600 back, there were shops in London like B Bar and Chelsea Girls in 337 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:28,920 the 60s, I mean the High Street fashion was in full swing. 338 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,280 When did you first come to London and discover fashion? 339 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,880 I came on holiday in the early 70s, but I had got really 340 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,840 switched on to coming. Top of the Pops was our sort of 341 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,960 you know, just the the, the, the Holy Grail, wasn't it? 342 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,160 Yeah. And seeing David Bowie and Mark 343 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,080 Bowlin and people like that on top of the box switched on Top 344 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:56,520 of the box switched on a light and we would go to unfortunately 345 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,320 50 miles from Glasgow, we would make day trips to Glasgow to go 346 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:06,120 to the boutiques and buy things and platform shoes like that 347 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,400 size. So we were, I mean I think UK 348 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,680 still like that. There are so many fashion tribes 349 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,680 and yeah it's it's it's kids, teenagers, but it's probably 350 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,720 like that all over the world now are very into their look you 351 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,360 know. And Glasgow was is an incredibly 352 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,520 fashionable. I mean, Scottish people really 353 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,200 are into fashion and beauty, yeah, Yeah. 354 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,160 Yeah, but when would you say, do you, do you remember a specific 355 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,920 moment, a specific outfit that you put on but you went, God, I 356 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:41,280 feel good in this. God, I I remember in early 70s 357 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,200 where and I bought an Oxford bags and a jacket with huge 358 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,880 lapels and platform shoes. I meant talking that size and 359 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,800 just thought I was it, you know and I was learning to drive and 360 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,680 I had to take a wear slippers to the driving lessons and I was 361 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,200 probably. I was 17, yeah. 362 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320 And where And I thought I'd look fucking cool. 363 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,480 I just look great, you know, I thought. 364 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,960 And that probably said, I was young and thin, you know? 365 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,160 That was your sort of light bulb fashion moment, would you say 366 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,480 when you started to think, God, this is pretty cool. 367 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,880 Yeah, I I realized it could make you feel good. 368 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,240 No good clothes can make you feel good. 369 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,720 I was like, I I I appreciate. I appreciate more and more as I 370 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,200 got older, Good quality clothes too, and clothes that last and 371 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,200 20 years. You know, you are obviously 372 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,840 surrounded by fashion and glamour and style every day, but 373 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,120 does this inspire your personal style? 374 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:51,600 I mean I don't go go through a rail at on a shoot and pick 375 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,680 things out and think oh I'm going to buy this and I'm going 376 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:59,600 to like because I I don't think I I I'm not I'm not so much 377 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,480 inspired by fashion as inspired by style if if that makes sense. 378 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:10,840 You know I I I I really admire people who have who can really 379 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,960 throw something together and make it look really good on them 380 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,840 you know. So I'm I fashion is if it's 381 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,120 almost fashion has become fashion and style have become 382 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,720 sort of it's a bit of a fork in the road whereas it used to go 383 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,160 together. I think, I I think fashion in a 384 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:37,600 way has become Instagram friendly whereas style is is 385 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,120 perennial you know style is it's at last forever and maybe it's 386 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:48,240 an age thing but I'm drawn to to timeless style rather than 387 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,440 seasonal fashion if that makes sense. 388 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,960 But I feel in the zeitgeist that the world is coming to that too, 389 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,360 you know? Yeah, do you have a style icon? 390 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,800 I I'm not, not sure I have a single icon, but but when you 391 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,840 see incredibly stylish images from the 70s of, you know, Mick 392 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,840 Jagger and and making Bianca Jagger for instance, I mean that 393 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,080 that just goes on forever, you know? 394 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,720 And I think that is really and quite incredible how those have 395 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,120 stood the test of time, you know? 396 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,520 Those images have been on countless mood boards. 397 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,600 Haven't. They Absolutely. 398 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,680 And and then and and then there's Kate Moss, which brings 399 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,000 me to Kate. So still, when we go to do a a 400 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,000 shoot or a show, there will be pictures of Kate on almost every 401 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,840 there'll there'll be Mick Jagger and Bianca Jagger, there'll be a 402 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,920 Twiggy and there'll be Kate. You know, that's the kind of 403 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,400 level Kate's influence has reached. 404 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,480 I mean, you have an incredibly close relationship with Kate 405 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,120 and. Yeah, we've known each other a 406 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:55,080 long time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and and you know, 407 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,680 she's often quoted as saying you've got the magic touch and 408 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:05,800 you and you as creating her lovely effort. 409 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,960 Well, I'm not sure I created it, but I can't. 410 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,240 I I I mean, it is her. It is. 411 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:18,320 It is, you know, she. She is that kind of epitome of 412 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,360 style, you know, She really is. She's got an incredible stun. 413 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:23,880 She's she's mostly vintage to be honest. 414 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,320 Yeah. My friend used to be the PR at 415 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,680 Bieber back in the day in the 70s, and one of her oldest 416 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760 friends is. It was a Bieber girl who passed 417 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:38,920 away recently and there were some clothes which were in 418 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,440 perfect condition and they fitted Kate perfectly and she 419 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,320 looks absolutely amazing in them. 420 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:52,200 So I think she kind of probably is, yeah, she got to be one of 421 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,120 my top style icons, really, you know? 422 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,560 Yeah, you've been quoted as saying hair is an important tool 423 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,760 for expressing ourselves and how we feel. 424 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:08,040 How do you feel about your hair, your facial hair? 425 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,080 Tell me about that. Well, I don't have any hair, but 426 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,640 I never had a you. Do you? 427 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,040 But you shave it. Yeah, but I don't have my, I 428 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,920 mean, I don't have any on top. I never had a complex about 429 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,680 losing my hair. I had the best hair. 430 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,560 I my hair was down to here. I know I had feather cuts, 431 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,640 palms, pink hair, blue. I had the whole thing. 432 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,720 I had the longest hair in school when I was a teenager. 433 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,200 I had a really good head of dark Celtic dark hair spoken straight 434 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,880 and and I loved it, but I lost it gradually. 435 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,680 I didn't lose it. I mean I feel for people who 436 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,920 suddenly lose their hair in their early 20s, but my mind 437 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,720 didn't really go to my late 30s. And I remember, I remember when 438 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:59,160 I knew it was really going. I bleached it for a year and I 439 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,720 thought, I'm going to enjoy this, you know and and I love 440 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:02,560 that. It was last. 441 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,880 Hurrah, it was just great. All of those other styles that 442 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,440 you were talking about, you know the the pink, the perm. 443 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,120 Did you do any of that yourself? Yeah, I used to. 444 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,680 Well, because I mean, I it was before I was a hairdresser, so 445 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,400 and and you couldn't really buy Crazy Colour. 446 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,080 So what we used to use is we used to bleach it because my 447 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,680 friend was a hairdresser, she'd bleach it and we used we'd buy a 448 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,440 set of felt it pens and squeeze them out and yeah, but if you 449 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,640 got caught in the rain, which it did a lot in Scotland, it ran 450 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,960 down your collar, you know. But we loved it. 451 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,800 We thought we looked great, you know, yellow colours and all, 452 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,480 blue colours and all. Love the idea of that you work 453 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,480 on shows of some of the best brands and designers in the 454 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,600 world. Do you think you ever adapt your 455 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,880 style to the designer you're working with? 456 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,680 No, no. I wear what I feel, feel like 457 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,240 wearing that day, you know, to be honest. 458 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,440 Yeah. No I I. 459 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,520 How about when you were attending the royal tresses? 460 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,680 Did you feel the need to be a little bit more formal? 461 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,040 It would depend if it was just if it was just at Kensington 462 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,320 Palace in the morning and it was a hot July day, I'd wear a pair 463 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,560 of shorts, you know? But if I at the beginning I wore 464 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,880 a tie and then I can't, you know, then I kind of quickly. 465 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,560 I saw some pictures of you. But I think if I, if I, if we're 466 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,480 if we're a function, or if we were, there were going to be 467 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,560 dignatures around how we would be respectful. 468 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,080 I was a big Levi Five O 1's wearer back in the day, and I'd 469 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,000 just love a pair of jeans on or a pair of chinos and I would 470 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,840 wear, I don't know, I still have a nice collection of Hermes ties 471 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,080 and, you know, I but I liked wearing a tie and, you know, I I 472 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,880 mean, I do occasionally like wearing a tie. 473 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:55,720 So I mean, I I I think, I I think I'm a respectful dresser, 474 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,360 if that makes sense. Talking Hermes, I know you're a 475 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,920 keen gardener. I have this vision of you in an 476 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,320 Hermes leather apron in your garden. 477 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,440 No, no. No, no, no, no, no. 478 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:11,440 I What's the gardening kit? What's? 479 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,360 The gardening kit. God, I'm probably saying the 480 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,640 wrong word. Ajilay. 481 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:21,480 And I've got a sort of tool belt and yeah, I'm quite, I'm quite 482 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,480 often out there in the summer in my boxer shorts and. 483 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,920 And the tool belt. Bare feet, Yeah. 484 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,640 I mean, I love bare feet. I love not having shoes on. 485 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,040 The old thing. Yeah, it's amazing, Yeah. 486 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,600 It is amazing, isn't it? In 2023, you were awarded an 487 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,560 MBE. Congratulations. 488 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,200 Thank you very much. What did you wear to the palace? 489 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,760 I wore a dress, van notes and suit which I bought in a sale. 490 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,080 I mean most of my stuff. I would I I I'm not a fan of 491 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,800 paying full price for rent. I'll I'll buy stuff on sale. 492 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,920 I love comedy. Garson and but I always wait for 493 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,360 the sale, you know, Anyway, so I wear dress, find out in suits 494 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,400 and I think a company goes on tie. 495 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,520 Well, congratulations. I always think that as human 496 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,880 beings, and particularly in the fashion world, we're a little 497 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,840 guilty of sizing people up when we first meet them, especially 498 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,640 by what they're wearing. Is this something you're 499 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,200 conscious of? Do you look at someone's whole 500 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,040 look, or do you find yourself looking at someone's hair? 501 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,040 I don't look at their hair usually. 502 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,920 I think I probably over the years developed an automatic 503 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:48,280 switch off where people think that I would be looking at their 504 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,840 hair and I don't want them to think that. 505 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,200 So I generally don't unless it's to do because when I'm not in 506 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,280 work mode I'm not really looking. 507 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,640 I'm not looking if I'm in work mode or you sit in front of me 508 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,720 or unless your hair is really bad, then I may offer some 509 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,120 advice, you know, but I don't want to really be presumptuous 510 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,040 like that. But I think we're definitely, I 511 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:18,120 mean I I definitely, it's all about images that that's first 512 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,320 impression is lasting impression as they say. 513 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:27,000 And I think, yeah, I tend to have a look at the shoes. 514 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,840 Yeah, I tend to have a look at the shoes. 515 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,480 Scuffed, dirty shoes. So is it more about the 516 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,680 cleanliness of the shoe or is it the statement of the shoe? 517 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,120 It depends what I think. A scuffed, dirty, like horrible, 518 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,400 uncared for shoe I think can probably tell a lot about a 519 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,240 person. And there's a difference between 520 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,400 scuffed, dirty, uncared for than scuffed, dirty, deliberate 521 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,680 golden goose. Do you know what I mean? 522 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,040 How would you describe your style in three words? 523 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Oh, probably Eclectic. Eclectic. 524 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,160 Bold. Timeless. 525 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,560 I always think that men get more distinguished as they get older 526 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,600 and suit their lines. Would you? 527 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,680 No, I'm not saying you've got lines, Sam, but would you ever 528 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,640 consider any form of age prevention, buttocks or? 529 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,120 Oh, I do a bit of Botox now and again. 530 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,520 I mean, I used to do it here because it tightens here, but 531 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,480 now it's kind of too far gone. But men have the luxury of 532 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,040 beards, so it's fine. But you know what? 533 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,440 I I some of my friends were trying to get me to have a hair 534 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,880 transplant, and I'm like, you know what? 535 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,880 No, I mean that would just be ridiculous to me to turn up like 536 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,440 this. But I would consider, I would 537 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,160 consider a sort of half facelift. 538 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:08,800 The wrinkles. I don't mind. 539 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,600 It's it's this. It's the jaw. 540 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240 It's the jowl, the the, the, the under. 541 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,720 And there's nothing really you can do about that. 542 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,880 But I think, yeah, but the Botox is fine. 543 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,560 You know, I don't mind the wrinkle up to. 544 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,760 I mean, do you know what? I have good skin. 545 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,720 I mean, I'm not bad. I'm, I'm, you know, well into my 546 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,600 69th year. So I'm OK. 547 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,480 I'm all right. But I'm. 548 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,760 I'm too much of A coward to do a facelift. 549 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,920 Yeah. You know, I just think, oh. 550 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,280 God, you look like you look after your skin really well. 551 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,520 I have good skin. I I I you know I I have 552 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,560 psoriasis, so I have it in my fingernails. 553 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,400 I have a little spot behind me but since I had COVID it 554 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,320 disappeared. But but my actually skin, my 555 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,280 skin is. I'm lucky. 556 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,520 I have quite good skin. With you obviously working with 557 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,160 the hair so much, are you very conscious of how your hands 558 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,200 look? I am, but I have little short, 559 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,440 stubby sausage fingers with a bit of arthritis and psoriasis 560 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,040 of my fingernails and I, you know, I had to get over myself 561 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,880 about that, you know? Do you ever have a manicure? 562 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:14,800 I did. You know what? 563 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,360 I had a manicure. I have a manicure at work 564 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,239 sometimes and I had one couple of weeks ago. 565 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,159 And because what what people think, I bite my nails, but I 566 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:25,520 don't my nails flake off because of the psoriasis. 567 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,360 So I clipped them down, you know, because otherwise it's not 568 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,159 nice doing people's hairy nails like you know. 569 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:36,080 So I clipped them down and this lady gave me a manicure and I'd 570 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,480 noticed that my nails were the best they've been for many, 571 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,639 many, many years. Because I because I, you know, 572 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,080 they I, I. So I didn't clip them down so 573 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,520 much and actually they were OK and they didn't flake off. 574 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,120 So I think they might be. I don't know if they'll get 575 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,199 better, but yeah, I do have manicure sometimes. 576 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,800 Spinning back to your wardrobe, how much do you plan your looks? 577 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,960 I'm always fascinated by how much men think about their 578 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,440 clothes in terms of because I I think women think about their 579 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,000 clothes a lot. Do men think about their clothes 580 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,600 as much? I don't think I don't plan 581 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,520 anything really, unless I've got a big event coming up. 582 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,080 I need to see if my my tuxedo fits me, which it actually 583 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,760 doesn't, so I need to get a new one. 584 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,640 But I tell you what I find difficult at the moment. 585 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,080 I have a lot of clothes I had. I had even more clothes. 586 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,520 I had 9 wardrobe boxes that followed me around everywhere 587 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,840 I've ever lived. And the last move I thought, no, 588 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:47,080 we can't do this. And they were full of Gautier 589 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,800 Com and a lot of Vivienne Westwood because I've worked 590 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,680 with Vivienne for many, many years and I had a lot of pieces 591 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,200 made and three pieces from the women's fabrics in the 90s. 592 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,080 I still had all of those and they were beautiful, beautiful 593 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,560 pieces. They were incredible. 594 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:11,440 And I sold them all at auction a few years ago at Kerry Taylor's 595 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:19,600 and gave half the money to to Vivian's charity and half the 596 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,120 money to beauty banks, which are charity set up by a friend of 597 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,760 mine. And that felt really good. 598 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,840 It felt really, really good that because because they were all in 599 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,600 these boxes and it was it was time for somebody to have them. 600 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,480 Yeah. Out of interest, did you sell 601 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,040 them as yours? Yeah, yeah. 602 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,240 But how brilliant. I did and and I have. 603 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,800 I still have too many clothes and I I this is one of my tasks 604 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,440 for the winter. When the when the the, you know, 605 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,520 in the dark, rainy days, I'm going to go through the 606 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,520 wardrobes and get rid of a load of stuff that I don't wear and 607 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,520 give them away. You know, stuff that doesn't 608 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,800 fit. I don't wear it. 609 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,720 I've hadn't worn it for five years. 610 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,880 You know within there will be some things I keep, but I need 611 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,480 AI need a big old clean out. Quite cathartic. 612 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,600 Yeah, it is, isn't it? You travel a lot. 613 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,760 Do you have a particular look that you reach for again and 614 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,240 again to travel in? You need clothes, sweatpants or 615 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,960 Lululemon shorts depending on the the season. 616 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:35,320 And I'll have AI think we've got J Crews that are safari jacket 617 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,520 thing and I'll have and a Fred Perry that and and sometimes a 618 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,480 sweatshirt in my bag. Easy, easy, easy travel stuff, 619 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,320 you know? What luggage do you use? 620 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,880 I use to me. Are you a good Packer? 621 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,280 I use to me and I use a Japanese brand called Porter and some of 622 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,960 that, they're soft bags and they're they're like flight 623 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,400 jackets, you know they're nylon with orange inside and some of 624 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,400 those bags I've had for 20 odd years and they're incredible. 625 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,360 That's sustainable. It's amazing. 626 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,200 Would you say you're a good Packer? 627 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,800 Sometimes I I went to Sicily, to a wedding at the weekend, and I 628 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,440 took far too many clothes. I mean, because I couldn't. 629 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,080 I I wasn't quite sure about the weather. 630 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,520 I didn't know and that was ridiculous, but. 631 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,920 That's so refreshing to hear because I always think men are 632 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,520 sort of much more edited about their. 633 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,080 Packaging. No. 634 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,360 I was really bad on this one. Usually I am, but I was bad on 635 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:36,240 this one so I yeah. Do you have a favorite brand or 636 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,920 tailor that you revert to again and again? 637 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,480 I I've never had a suit made. I I would probably like to do 638 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,600 that. Who do you think you would go 639 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:47,880 to? I. 640 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,920 Don't know. I need to research that. 641 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,440 I I don't know because I have. I have quite a long waisted 642 00:38:53,440 --> 00:39:00,000 short legs, so off the peg stuff I always have to have, always 643 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:05,040 have to have altered. I do love a dress Van Noten 644 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:11,760 suits and I've got some old margella suits that I love, but 645 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,240 I've never had a suit tailored. I would love to do that. 646 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,440 I think it must be the most incredible experience that whole 647 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,320 sample road to be done it. May be expensively addictive 648 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,880 though, right? I think, well, I think the cut, 649 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,600 if if the cut is good, of course, that's what I mean, 650 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,920 transformative. There'd be now going back. 651 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,960 Transformative to your body, your shape, your and and then 652 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,240 your posture changes. Yeah, to a degree, I think. 653 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,760 I don't wear formal things very much. 654 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,080 I'm much more. I'm much more. 655 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,200 It's about comfort for me, you know, I'm much more at ease in a 656 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:58,120 nice wool or cashmere sweater. And I I said a bright colored 657 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:03,320 shirt or you know it. It is about ease. 658 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,240 But as I've got older, I really like like a bold color or a bold 659 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:10,760 pattern, you know? Interesting. 660 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,640 Or. Or a bolt, you know. 661 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,080 A little hint of something you know. 662 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,040 Did you ever justify anything expensive as a pounds per wear? 663 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:26,280 I've got a Montclair jacket. It's not the puffy jacket, it's 664 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,840 more of a it looks more like an old product thing. 665 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,280 It's nylon. Technical. 666 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,040 And it's it's like a it's like a policeman's jacket with a four 667 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,760 you know it's almost Barbara like and it is the warmest 668 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,640 thing. It's I I've had it. 669 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,160 I must have had it for God almost 20 years and it's still 670 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,440 my winter coat because I've never found. 671 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,000 I'm always looking for placement and I've never found one to 672 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,400 replace it. So it just it keeps coming out 673 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,840 do. You feel like you need to 674 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,760 replace it in this? Yeah, it's just start. 675 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,000 It's just starting to wear around the edge of it. 676 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,200 It's been the most incredible thing, and I remember thinking 677 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,240 that it was quite expensive at the time, thinking a lot of 678 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,640 money. Hello. 679 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,520 Good value. Really good value, Yeah. 680 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,280 On the on the point of value and values, what do you what's your 681 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,960 approach to sustainable fashion? Yeah, great. 682 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,760 But I it's it's does it work? Does it do the job, does it 683 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,960 last? Can you get the colors? 684 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:36,920 I mean, fashion by its nature isn't sustainable, you know, 685 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,040 because it's, it's about renewal, isn't it? 686 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:45,320 You know, I think it's all about everyone doing their part. 687 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,800 I mean, I'm as guilty as everyone about buying a 799 688 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:55,240 shirt from H&M. But having said that, that 17799 689 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:59,520 shirt from H&M I've had for 10 years, you know, I'm not one for 690 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,360 buying something knowing I'm only going to wear it once. 691 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,440 You know, when I was a teenager, you would never buy something 692 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,040 that you could only wear once. It just would, was not in your 693 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,360 mindset. But it's about changing 694 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,440 mindsets. Really isn't. 695 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,080 It yeah, absolutely. What would you say is the oldest 696 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,040 piece in your wardrobe? I still you know I I did ATV 697 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:30,000 show last year on Channel 4 and I wore all my own clothes and I 698 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,440 I took a few in for the wardrobe to sort of look at and and they 699 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,160 picked some things out and I put one of the shirts on that do you 700 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,360 know how old this is and it I said this is this is probably 30 701 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,560 years old this shirt you know and I still wear it you know and 702 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:50,360 and that is that's kind of that that gives me great pleasure. 703 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,000 Would you say you look after your clothes? 704 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,720 I do. I do look after them? 705 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,840 Yeah, I do. All beautifully laid out. 706 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,200 Oh, maybe not so beautifully, but they're all kind of they're 707 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,120 all hanging out. They're all some of the stuff 708 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,560 that I need to protect is in plastic bags with, you know, 709 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,640 moth repellents and that kind of thing. 710 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,280 You know, I'm quite fastidious with the moth repellents, but 711 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,480 yeah, I do. I I think This is why I want to 712 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,120 get rid of a load of stuff, because the wardrobes are 713 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,880 getting too packed as they're all getting squashed and now 714 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,360 that's something you have to go. Here, yeah, it's just not kind 715 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,800 on clothes, and it is a. But you have an emotional 716 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,200 attached to them. Sometimes you have this kind of 717 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,400 I've got to Kashmir and Mark Jacobs jumpers that I've had, 718 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,560 that I bought in Century 21 in New York in the 90s and they're 719 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,160 never going to fit me again. And but they're they're there 720 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,240 because I I I wore them a lot and they're amazing. 721 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,160 But there's a few things I need to let go of. 722 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,040 Do you have any pieces in your wardrobe that have particular 723 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,760 sentimental value attached to them? 724 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,840 I have some Hermes ties that I wore on special on formal 725 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,680 occasions with Princess Diana. And I have. 726 00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:03,280 I have one from the first day I met her, which I'm wearing in a 727 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,120 picture with her that Patrick took. 728 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,520 And I still have that. So yes, I do. 729 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,560 Would you ever frame it or do something with it to just sort 730 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,440 of mark mark the moment? No, I'd never. 731 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,080 I don't know if that might be a little weird. 732 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:19,760 I don't know. Yeah, it's. 733 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,200 Just yours. Yeah, lovely. 734 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,320 Right. Let's turn to some quick fire 735 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,160 questions. What fashion advice would you 736 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,040 give your 20 year old self? Keep going? 737 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,760 Absolutely. You're doing the right thing. 738 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,840 Which fashion trend would you most like to see make a 739 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,920 comeback? None. 740 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,400 I don't want to see fashion trends. 741 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,200 I want to see people doing their own thing. 742 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:52,920 Views on tattoos. I don't have any tattoos and I 743 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:58,320 struggle to see the beauty in over tattooing. 744 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,280 High End or High Street? High end. 745 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,720 Sports Lux or rock'n'roll? Rock'n'roll. 746 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,440 You. Know what now? 747 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,120 I take that back. I I, I, I mix of both. 748 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,160 Sports. And roll. 749 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,360 Sports and roll. Love that Savile Row or jeans? 750 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,360 It would have to be jeans. But about to be Savile Row 751 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,080 maybe? Maybe Cargo Zorchinos? 752 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,560 She knows. Double breasted. 753 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,000 Single breasted. Single. 754 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,480 Trend or style? Style. 755 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,040 Colour or monochrome colour pattern or plain? 756 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,880 Bit of both. Hoarder or editor or hoarder? 757 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,960 Charity shop or resale Charity shop boxes or briefs. 758 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,880 Briefs, Boxer briefs, Boxer briefs. 759 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:55,520 About you smugglers or board shorts? 760 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,080 Board shorts. Beanie or baseball cap? 761 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,640 Definitely, Beanie. Finally, one last question. 762 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,080 At the end of the day, what do you or don't you wear in bed? 763 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,600 I wear a pair of boxer shorts in bed just in case there's a fire. 764 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:19,320 Sam, what fun to sit here with you on this particularly noisy 765 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,400 day and have this wonderful conversation about all things 766 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,120 style and fashion. Thank you for being here. 767 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,240 Thanks for having me. Great fun.