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Today I'm going on a sartorial journey with author, brand
ambassador, writer, illustrator and digital creator Jim Chapman.
Hello. Hello.
Thanks for having me. Well, that's an intro, isn't it?
Behind me? Well.
I mean, you're, you're very, very qualified to to be here and
talk about. I've been making it up as I go
along. Well, let's make it up then.
I mean, you are working on a raft of different projects.
I mean, you've got M&S, Mercedes, various alcohol
brands, right? I mean, what are you most
excited about at the moment? I'm, I'm really happy to be back
at it. I've had some time.
I keep saying like off ish in that I continued to exist, but I
wasn't doing so much because I was making babies, but my wife
was making the babies. I was.
Yeah. But you know, they're kind of up
and running now. So I'm back at work and I'm
actually just really excited to know that I still exist.
Because you become a parent and that's kind of for, to begin
with, when you're in the trenches, that's all you become.
And I'm really happy to sort of now have more of me back.
So there's no specific thing that I'm particularly over the
moon about. There's a couple of projects I'm
working on at the moment I can't actually talk about, partly
because they're not real projects yet.
I'm waiting on a few things. So I don't want to talk about
them. Yeah, so I don't want to talk
about them. And then them not happy.
They're really potentially very exciting.
But otherwise, for the most part, I'm just happy to be back
at it and and have a bit more of like my identity on top of being
dad. You know, I love being dad, but
there there is much more to to me than simply being parent.
Of course, I mean, you have collaborated with M&S it seems
for quite a while. How does that work?
It's so I work with them for this year.
I mean, I will continue to work with them whether like it or
not, because the stuff is fantastic.
It's, it's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's so
considered, it's so well thought out.
They've got their finger on the pulse.
It it fits really well. I, I, I think that some people
have a bit of a connotation about High Street in that
capacity, whereas I always, you know, it's kind of fast and it
won't last long. Everything I've had from them
has stayed with me. Like the quality, the merino
wool that they have is, I've got everything in pretty much every
colour because it's just so good.
But it's really up my street in terms of the, the sartorial
nature. It's it's clean, it's simple,
it's pretty elegant, and it just ticks all my boxes, but for a
much better price point. Would you ever want to do any
sort of fashion collaboration with them, for example?
Yeah, I would love to. I mean, I get asked this sort of
question a lot and I I think it would be much better for me to
do it alongside a brand and do a thing with them as opposed to my
own. I get a lot of people that say,
hey, when are you going to bring your own brand out?
And I'm not because if men like, buy like me, they buy loyally.
And so I'd have to steal them off people, which is a much
bigger art than just making a brand that's really cool one of
the moment, because cool one of the moment doesn't last.
It only lasts for that moment. And so a lot of what I wear is
pretty timeless. In order to then take those
customers from somewhere else, I need to provide a better
offering. And I don't think that I'd be
able to produce it at the quality I'd like to produce it
at at the scale on my own. So it makes much more sense to
partner with someone else. Very sensible, I can say it, you
know, it's a, it's a really complex industry and, and the
High Street have I keep saying this, it's never been a better
time for the High Street because they're doing such.
An incredible job. Yeah.
I also kind of know what I don't know.
And I'm really creative. I'm not good at business.
I couldn't do it on my own. I just don't understand.
Whenever people talk to me about like, business and money, I
just, it turns me off. I just go to sleep.
So I would need someone in charge of that side of things.
And I just want to make stuff. Yeah.
Good agent. Yeah, exactly.
But you were one of the original Youtubers.
How did that come about? By accident.
But how? So my Big Sisters, who people
may know as Pixie Woo, both really successful makeup
artists. Really they were.
They were both working makeup artists at the time.
And then my eldest sister Sam was pregnant with with her, I
think, I can't remember if it was her first or second
daughter. Either way, someone asked her
how to do a look and she's like, I can't get to you because I'm
really heavily pregnant. So and also a bit bored because
I'm just sat. So she filmed herself doing it
and posted it online. I don't know if she even thought
other people could see it at the time.
And then a few people watched it, and she's like, oh, that's a
really fun activity for me to do while I'm feeling really sort of
just pregnant. And then it started to grow
really, really small. But it was a nice outlet for
her. Meanwhile, I had just graduated
and expected to go out and conquer the world, but realized
that actually I had no love left for what I was studying and also
which was psychology. Psychology.
Yeah. We want to come.
On to that, actually, in a minute.
And also at the level I had it as a just a degree in order to
do anything really cool with it, like the, the good stuff that
that I was really excited by like criminology or forensics or
like the fun ones, I'd have to go back and do a masters.
So I started to do that. I was doing a masters and I was
paying for it myself. So I was doing it part time over
two years rather than in one go. And I was working full time in
retail and insurance and that sort of stuff.
And I had no creative outlet at the time.
So I I saw what my sisters were doing and it's just how easy you
just talk to a camera. So I gave it a go, was not
expecting anything to happen. And then after a while, I met a
group of people who were roughly my age who were also doing it
and we became friends. And then that's when the
audience really kicked off because I think they enjoyed
watching us develop our relationships and become pals
and travel the world together and and do all these things.
And roughly what year was that? I've been doing it in 15 years
and I reckon the first two years or so were very underground.
Yeah, it was just me chatting to people and and producing content
for no gain whatsoever. It was just just for the
creativity. And that would you posted that
on Instagram. This before it come existed.
Yeah, I was going to say that's before.
So then that was straight onto onto YouTube, and then Instagram
and Facebook came along. Yeah, so I mean, Facebook's been
there for a while, but even then I wasn't really using it because
it's never really been the right audience for me.
And then Instagram came along and I was there like the day it
came out. That's how old I am.
And my audience to say my, our audience got to see us all
develop and grow. And whatever happens now,
there's never going to be that moment again.
There are people now who dwarf me in terms of size of audience,
but that was the first time in history that and always people
were willing to invest online to a group of people.
And as a result, a lot of those people are still the same people
who have now grown up. They've got kids, they've
working in different jobs there, they live very different lives
to when they were 14 year olds, you know, watching me.
So are you saying that you think it was easier to build a
following then? Yeah, I do.
I think it was easy. I also think that because it was
new and it was exciting, it was organic, you know, like people
watched us. I always say we were the best of
a bad bunch. There was no one else doing it,
so people were like, oh, this is fun, this is exciting.
And it was just purely for adventure.
There was no money in it at the time.
That came a bit later. We weren't selling anything to
anybody. We weren't making ads.
We were just sharing our experience.
And so it's so innocent. Clothing experience as well as
life experience. That came a bit later, yeah.
I mean, to begin with it was silly challenges and just
travelling around with, with my friends, but I've always had a
real interest in style. And as my audience became sort
of started growing up with me, I was, oh, I can talk about the
things that I'm interested in. I'm not just a vessel to provide
gimmicks and entertainment. Actually they care about my
opinion. So as a result I started working
in various different worlds. So fashion was one.
I write for GQ and go to fashion shows.
You still have a lot of hosting and presenting it at premieres
because I really care about film.
And that for me was kind of the beginning of taking my audience
on a on sort of my own personal journey of, of my existence as
opposed to just creating content to entertain them.
And I've been so fortunate that, fingers crossed so far, they've
come along with me on on, you know, some pretty epic journeys.
There's a hell of a lot that have come along with you.
Were you ever tempted to buy any followers because there was a
whole time back in the day? Yeah, I didn't even know that
existed for a while. No, because I care less about
the number of people that are next to my name.
You know, you see Jim Chapman on on Instagram and I've got two
and a half million people who follow me on there.
I care less about that and more about the interaction.
And if you by followers, they'll, they'll increase your
number, but they won't actually increase any of the other
statistics. And that's what's important.
And in fact, there's there's an issue that you've got too many
followers and not enough people engaging that it looks wrong.
And so one, I didn't know it was a thing until there was drama
around it. And two, it was just, I don't
know. I also, I have no ego about my
job. It's what I do for a living.
It's not who I am as a person. I take it home with me and as
much as anybody else does with with work stresses.
But it doesn't define me, you know?
So the number next to my name doesn't really have much
consequence on my sense of worth.
So it's never really been a thing I've thought about.
And. What do you think is the next
chapter in the influencing sphere?
I feel like it's reaching critical mass.
I think there are so many issues with it because I'm a bit
biased, I think because I've seen it from it's very, very
beginnings and like I said before, it was about adventure
and it was innocent and it was just loads of fun.
It feels like now people are trying to sell you stuff all the
time, but it also feels like people are so desperate to
become an influencer or get success from social media that
they're willing to do more than ever and push the boundaries.
And it's not always very healthy.
And I also have concerns for everybody involved, the people
who make the content, who feel the pressure of constantly
trying to achieve because as soon as they stop, someone else
takes their place and they're getting younger and younger.
So if you're only in your teens or your early 20s and then
you've had a following and you've let it slip or through
entropy or a change in the algorithm, you're no longer
important. How do you, what do you do next,
you know, at such a young age after having experience this
success, then, then what happens?
But also for the people who are online, we're encouraged to
spend more and more time scrolling.
And this again is where my my degree comes in.
Like it's not a coincidence that all of these platforms look the
same and operate the same because every time you scroll,
you get like a little bit of dopamine in your brain, a little
bit of like happy chemical. But ultimately you end up net
negative because you aren't doing anything that's actually
constructive. If you go and do a task that's
actually quite boring and mean, you'll like feel the dishwasher,
for example, you'll end up with a bigger dose of the good stuff
in your brain because you've completed a task.
Even if it's a boring task, throw in some good stuff in
there, like, you know, a walk or a cuddle or a workout or time
with people and you end up with a happier brain.
So ultimately, it is making people less happy.
And so I think we're reaching critical mass.
I think there's more people creating content out there than
people can consume. And I think that it cannot
sustain everybody out there being an influencer, because
who's influencing who if we're all doing it right.
And I like to think, I'm hopeful that down the line there will be
legislation around usage, but also identity.
If people just people can post whatever they want anonymously
under content. I'm quite lucky because I've got
really thick skin, but also I don't get loads of hate because
my stuff is fairly, it's not extreme, you know, it's sort of
fairly generic and it's wholesome.
But if you're out there posting opinions, for example, you know,
you're going to, you can get quite a lot of hate under it and
people will just because they are anonymous.
I think it will hopefully come down to a case of proving who
you are, uploading your driver's license or passport or whatever.
And that way you have consequences for the stuff you
write. And I think that would make it a
happier place. So I'm, I'm hopeful that because
it's the most incredible tool and it's changed my life and I
live such a, a cool existence now compared to where I was
growing up. You know, I, I, I live in a nice
house in, in West London now, whereas I grew up where we're
all crammed into a small place on benefits.
And, you know, it's changed my existence and, and as much as I
love it and I respect it, it is a tool to be used.
And as soon as it becomes crux that you're addicted to, that's
an issue. And I think we're kind of
reaching that point where more and more people are the wrong
side of that balance. Yeah.
Do you feel the need to reinvent yourself online at all?
I feel pressure. Yeah, I do.
I feel, I feel constant pressure being online, more so now than
ever because I've got children. And so because I'm essentially
freelance, right? And that's terrifying,
especially when you've got a family that depend on you.
And so it's difficult to always be waiting on the next gig.
You know, I'm constantly going, when's the next job coming
through? And there is so much pressure
that less the pressure to reinvent myself because I've
been fortunate enough that that's happened organically.
Whenever I have something new I'm interested in, I've talked
about it and I orders have gone OK, cool, Jim's into that.
And I think there's a difference now.
People who are creating content now, it's much more transient.
And as soon as you aren't providing that transaction for
an audience, you're a fashion influencer.
You must only do fashion. If you do anything else, the
audience won't care and inevitably they will grow out of
you and move on to somebody else.
I, I've been really lucky that they've invested in me, so I've
been able to sort of wear many hats.
And so it's not odd for my audience to see me do a new
thing because it's just part of my growth as opposed to a
reinvention. But I feel pressure more
financially, I suppose now about making sure that there's so much
more skin in the game. I've never really been bothered
by the money. I've been fortunate that I've,
I've lived on. I had this argument with my wife
the other day because she was like, you can't just be creative
for a living. And I'm like, but that's all
I've done. That's how I've got to where we
are. Like, I don't know any other
way. She's very different to me in
that she is the number person in our in our house.
So she's in charge of that stuff.
And she without without her, it wouldn't operate.
But equally, without me, it wouldn't, you know, we make a
good team. But it drives her nuts that I'm
always head in the clouds, you know, and I'm thinking of the
next big thing. And I don't know any other way
than to use what's up here and get it out onto paper or onto
screen or through camera or audio or whatever it is.
That's, that's just how I how I work.
And so the money's always sort of followed and it's never
really mattered. But now I've got children I'm
thinking about. Margo starts school before I
know it and nursery costs a fortune.
And then every time I leave the house, and Sarah's also busy
because she works as well, we have to get childcare in and our
expensive, without exaggeration, are quadrupled.
And so now I care much more about the really boring stuff,
you know? Yeah, but today we're here to
talk about style. Your style.
So tell me about what you're wearing and why you decided to
put it on this morning. Well this morning I knew we were
talking about style so I thought this morning I would take my
daughter to nursery and I have little 2 modes.
I mean they're at home with the kids.
In which case I wear like sweatpants and actually very
rarely even a T-shirt because I've discovered it's easier to
get like the slop and the grime off your skin.
And off your clothes. Your home must be lovely.
Just like just kids, like just this.
It's just stuff everywhere. So they'll be lucky if I've got
clothes on my top up half because it's easier just to pick
it off you. And then I took my kids to
nursery in a hoodie that I found on the floor and some
sweatpants. And it only occurred to me that
because I knew I was doing this podcast and I saw some of the
other dads dropping their kids off and I was like, Oh my God,
they actually dress in outdoor people clothes because I'm
presuming they're going on to work, right?
Whereas I was going back home to hop in the shower.
But if I leave the house, I've kind of got like a kind of a
uniform, you know, my stuff's pretty considered a pretty
tailored. I know that I can pick pretty
much anything out of my wardrobe almost at random and it will
work together because I've curated my wardrobe like that.
So dressing me is really easy. Kind of put this on today.
I have a million choices. But I was like the colour, I
haven't worn this one yet. I like the colour.
And these trousers are part of a new suit I had.
So I was just excited to put them on for the first time.
And where's it from? This is from Sunspell and it's
glorious. I love.
It yeah, you do a lot of work with them.
Don't you? I love sun.
For me it's they do basics really well.
Really. Which is brilliantly.
Yeah, and it's kind of my whole aesthetic.
You'll rarely see me in a logo or a big design.
And they do clean basics that go with a lot of stuff, like just
really, really beautifully. These trousers are from Jack
Davison who had made me a few suits in the past and made to
measure. They now have me on file so I
just go, hey, can you make me? You know, and I'm.
But you have been on a sort of body transformation journey.
Has that affected your jacket shape, size, all?
Of that it has. I mean the jacket I arrived in
is now really snug and I love it but I've had it for a long time
and it's tight on the shoulders now and if I do it up it pulls a
bit but I can't get rid of it just yet because I love it.
But yes I'm now slightly bigger. I keep saying to people I'm
finally in my big boy body so I'm 36, it took all this time.
So yes, it has affected some of what I wear now.
Now, you grew up in Norfolk with your mother and three siblings.
I believe your father wasn't around that much.
He wasn't he he, he left. Well, he was forced to leave.
I reckon I was six or seven. He was kind of in and out from
there. Were you?
Would you say you were affected by his style at all, or has it
done the reverse? I don't remember much of him.
He was abusive, right? So there's a lot of it I don't
recall at all. Do you think you just blanked
that? Out.
I mean, I was talking to my therapist about it recently.
I was like, there's so much I don't have in there.
I can't remember his face very well, let alone his style.
And my therapist like, listen, you can unpick that if you want
to kind of go back through it, but your mind has defended you
from it for a reason. So if you're happy living your
life as you are, then why? Why pick at it?
And I am very happy living my life as I am.
I don't require him, but my mum is the most stylish woman on the
planet. And in fact, she's very much my
my gateway, my influence into style.
She used to take me shopping with her specifically.
And where did you shop back in the day in your childhood?
My mum used to have like a second hand shop where people
would come and bring their stuff and it was.
And it was. Hers was.
It, it was hers and her best friends ran out of her best
friend's garage in the middle of nowhere.
And actually when everything kicked off with my dad, we lived
with them for a while. They took us in for about 6
months or so. So my mum's commute was
downstairs. But she's, she's so elegant, my
mum and she's got such good style.
So she used to want to take me shopping because my sisters were
a bit older, but. Did she?
Was that men's and women's that she had?
Yeah. So she only had women's in her
second hand shop. Yes, Yeah, yeah.
So I. Was gonna say that would have
been like kid in a. Candy I was quite young, yeah.
And, and so I, I don't remember when it really happened for me,
but I my mum's massive influence because she used to choose.
It was my special time with my mum in that and we didn't have
lots of time with, with her because she was so busy looking
after four kids who have different needs.
You know, Sam is 10 years older than me, Nick is 7 years older
than me and I'm a twin. And she was on her own making
ends meet. We, you know, we, she was
constantly working or looking after one of us doing something,
you know. So it was my time with her where
she, we'd go shopping. But really, I didn't mean she'd
go shopping and she'd ask my opinion.
And she used to say to me, you're so honest.
You'd always tell me if you don't like it.
And is your twin the same or did she dress you in the same way?
When we were really young, we did the the twin thing.
Are you identical? No, but you, we look alike.
I always say that he looks like me but just squished.
So I'm 6 foot three. He's got all of my maths.
He's he's a personal trainer. He's super strong.
Like he's in the best shape ever, but he's like 6 foot.
I'm sure the word squished would not probably spring to mind for.
Him, he is. He's just, he's like me, but
everything about him is sort of like a bit more condensed, you
know what I mean? Like his face is even a bit like
more like this. You've squished him in the womb.
I think so, yeah. It's all your fault.
Took up all the space. He was never really that
bothered. I mean he cares about how he
looks, but he's much more just jeans and AT shirt kind of guy.
I'm always fascinated by the twin dynamic.
That's so different, Yeah. And actually it was a.
It was a, of course, a conflict between us for a while.
Not like big conflict, but in the way that all siblings, yeah.
There's conflict in any family. We, we, we're from a small place
and we were the twins no matter what.
And we're so different. So we, we had to share the same
friendship group and we were lumped in a sort of like one
being. And it wasn't until I went on to
sixth form and university, and he went on to do his thing and
we went separate directions that were like, Oh my God, actually,
you're really cool. Because now we're not lumped in
together. We both had our own groups.
And your own identity. Our own identity is really nice
and then come back together and but we are so different.
We we share the same core values, you know, like he's my
best friend. I trust him with my life and we
have a lot of like the same stuff, but sense of humor is
different styles different. Lots about us is chalk and
cheese and it's it's actually really, really lovely.
Do you remember the moment that you first realized that clothes
had an impact on your life? I think there was a disparity
between how I felt on what we had.
We, it was hard to have your own style as a twin because we were
dressed the same way. And as a teenager growing up in,
in the 90s, we were just dressed in like basics or baggy jeans,
which is never really me. So it wasn't until I think I
kind of like moved out and was buying my own clothes that I
was, oh, OK, right. I, I can see how this feels and
how it works now. And I, and I don't have to just
pick from the three things that I own.
So I think for me, it came with a sense of sort of autonomy to
be able to be in charge of my own things.
And I made plenty mistakes along the way.
But I think for me that that's when I realized how important it
is to to to express yourself in that way.
You did a degree in psychology. What are your views on how we
message through our clothes? Again, people have been wearing
clothes for a very, very long time, further back than actually
people realised. And it is a really, like I said
before, it's the most simple and effective way of demonstrating
who you are. It's a uniform for some people,
right? It's jewellery showing your
status, you know, But I think for most people every day, it's
shows so much about you based on how you put yourself together.
I, I tend to wear fairly tailored stuff because I'm a
quite considered human being. And, and I like to think that as
I'm walking down the street, strangers or people I know will
look at me and go, I can see the way you are based on what you
wear. I'm not sloppy, I'm not walking
around. I mean, I am going to take the
kid to nursery, but if I'm out where people can see me, I'd
rather look put together. I stand up a bit taller as well
when I'm wearing nice clothes and, and, and I like to think
that I exude an atmosphere of intelligence maybe, but
something that that goes, OK, he knows what he's up to.
He's, he's got confidence, you know?
Do you remember what you wore on your first date with Sarah?
I do. It was tricky actually, because
a lot of myself was in boxes at the time because I was midway
through moving out and I was packing because two days later I
was going to the jungle. So everything was just sort of
everywhere. But again, I kind of relied on
the fact that I know that most of my stuff works together.
Yeah. So I kept it really simple.
I didn't know what she was going to wear.
And we were only going to a bar, so I don't want to look over the
top. So I wore jeans, but like, nice.
They were just black jeans, but nice.
Like simple, a blue sweater and a left jacket.
And it worked without being ostentatious.
Now, you got married to Sarah Tarleton in 2022.
You had a beautiful wedding in Seville, but I read that you
actually eloped earlier in the year.
Right. So in order to do it in Seville,
there are so many hoops to jump through for like the the legal
part of it. And it was so much like red tape
and we happened to be in LA and we're actually, we just go to
Santa Barbara to like is the most beautiful registry office
there. But should we just do that?
We rented a car. We got as it happened, Sarah's
aunt lives in America and happened to be in LA at the same
time for like a conference or something.
And we were like, hey, do you want to come along?
And then we flew Sarah's mum over.
So it was literally me, Sarah, Margot, our daughter, who was at
the time really small, and Sarah's mom and Sarah's aunt.
And we've crammed into this little rental and drove in the
rain as well, which is like super romantic because it never
rains out there to Santa Barbara, the registry office.
And how long in advance did you know that you were going to get
married? Discussing it, I mean, we knew
we were already engaged. Yes, but that you were going to
get married in Santa Barbara it. Was fairly spur with me.
We were discussing it, but we hadn't officially confirmed it
until we got there and then so. Did Sarah have a wedding dress
in her bag? She had a dress that she had
bought. It wasn't like a wedding dress.
I'm getting clothing anxiety. I know she had a dress that
she'd bought because we were discussing it, but it wasn't a
wedding dress. It was like, it was white, but
it was short and it was gorgeous, but it was much more
casual. And I usually have a suit with
me wherever I go because you never know what I'm going to get
up to. So I slipped that on, she put
her dress on, and we just hopped in the car.
Yeah, it was. It was actually really, really
lovely. And I'm so glad we did that,
because the other alternative was to do the registry office in
Wandsworth, which is not the same story.
But that sounds so romantic and and personal.
Yeah, we got, we got a phone call from Sarah's granddad
going, Oh, so you're married then?
That was my invite. Yeah, we that's the legal part.
You're coming to the actual wedding.
That's fine. That was just the the the bit we
had to do. Now as this is a cheeky
question, but as an influencer, did you have to spend anything
on your wedding? Yeah, yeah, there are some
things that I won't try to hustle for, you know, and that's
that's, that's kind of a bit of a crudeo putting it.
I don't personally hustle for a lot.
My management will will do all that stuff for me and they'll
offer through we we did have some drinks catered for Yeah,
because you. Represent.
Sort of. Yeah, I was working with at the
time I was working, I can't remember the brand now by me.
That's going to happen. My mind.
We were working with an alcohol brand at the time and they
offered to provide some alcohol for the wedding, which is
amazing. But we didn't owe anybody
anything. And it's really sometimes the
freebies and then nothing's ever free, right?
You have to share or then you're off the list and you know
nothing. There's no such thing as a free
meal. And there are some things where
I don't want to work for. And my wedding day was one of
them was I don't want to have to owe anybody anything.
I just want to be present with my people.
And so I see it online now, what people do.
I understand why because it's so expensive, but I want to have
memories and not go look back at a time and think, Oh yeah, let's
do that thing for that brand that day, you know, I had to
work for it. It's just nice sometimes to not
be online. Yeah.
And So what did you wear that day?
I wore a suit that it's actually, it kind of bothered
Sarah because she's like, why aren't you getting a new one?
I was like, because my suits are bespoke some of them and they're
gorgeous and the point of them is that you wear them
repeatedly. But there's no point in me
buying another or getting another blue suit made when I
already own a blue suit that is actually perfectly for the
temperature and the environment. And you know, so I've, I had a
beautiful P Johnson suit that I've had for a while and it's
pinstripe and it's lightweight and I just knew I'd slip it on.
It worked great. And actually, as it happens, I
wore that one on our official wedding, you know, the ceremony
as well. And so, yeah, it was easy for
me. Sarah's dress was gorgeous, but
that's a much bigger thing to think about and it's sort of
like a one and done, whereas I would be silly, I think, to wear
something else when I already have to that fits me perfectly.
Yeah. Does Sarah often comment on your
style? No.
And actually sometimes I'm like Sarah, I always tell you or give
you an opinion. If she looks nice, I'll tell
her. But I will also say, oh, I'm not
sure about that on you. And she appreciates honesty, but
she never really mentions it ever.
Oh, yeah, I'm a bit like, so come on.
Like, do you even like me? Stop it.
Yeah. No, but yeah, she doesn't.
She she has a bit of sort of self consciousness around her
own style. She's never sure how she feels
in things. And you know, I said to before,
talk to a stylist and get some like, rules because I don't
understand women's wear because women come in so many different
shapes and sizes. Whereas men tend to sort of be
straight up and down, might have bigger shoulders, might have a
bigger waist, but for the most part we come much the same.
Fundamentally, who do you think you dress for?
Yourself. Your wife?
Your audience. For me, for sure, I'm fortunate
that my audience like it. Sarah doesn't really seem to to
have much of an opinion. I walk downstairs and if I'm
dressed up to the nines for an event in a tuxedo even, she
would just go OK. Or if I'm wearing something much
more casual, she doesn't really say much.
But I think I'd be silly to dress for my audience in a way,
because my audience come to me from the way I like to dress.
So I don't think it would make a great deal of sense for me to
reverse that. And it's too late now.
I like what I wear, you know? So would you say being stylish
is important to you? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But again, I think my style is
very easy to achieve and so it is really important, but it's
not something I think about all the time.
It's not something I worry about.
And because I think a lot of people who are stylish are
always uncomfortable in what they wear either physically,
yeah, either physically uncomfortable because their
their clothes are so highly fashionable that they're like
they're squeezing into it or like they don't, it doesn't fit
very well or they're letting the clothes wear them.
That's. Really interesting for because
to me the most stylish people are the most effortless.
Precisely. Yeah, that's what I mean.
I think people who are truly stylish are comfortable in what
they wear. Whatever that is.
Right, Whatever your personal style is.
But I think people who are trying to be stylish or, or are
so Uber stylish that they're constantly on trend or whatever
are usually uncomfortable either because they are the clothes
don't fit properly or because they are so desperate to impress
that it comes with a sense of concern or worry.
So they are uncomfortable within themselves.
And actually I think that once you know the rules for the way
you dress and, and and the way your style works, it becomes so
easy and it is effortless. And you, I throw things on.
I walk out the door knowing I look great but not thinking
about it too much. Do you have a style icon?
I'm very fickle. Yeah, loads.
I have. This is going to be the most
boring answer in the world, but I've got a real thing for like
50s Americana, like James Dean kind of thing, like denim and
leather and classic shapes, but also British tailoring where it
was particularly soft tailoring. I don't want to think too,
because I've got broad shoulders.
I don't want to think too stiff. I like it to feel like these
trousers are gorgeous, but then they're tailored, but they're
not like stiff and tight. They're, I don't say relaxed,
but they're comfortable. How would you describe your
style in three words? Your style?
DNA. I think considered everything I
have has a place in my wardrobe. I don't buy things for the sake
of it, thinking Oh well that one day like everything has a
purpose. I'm going to use the word
timeless because a lot of what I've had, I have had for a long
time. And providing my body doesn't
change too much, it will stay with me for as long as possible
because there's no point in replacing.
And also that really helps with things like sustainability,
right? Because I'm not constantly
buying new things. Subtle.
I think I'm not there to stand out.
I'm not there to sort of impress anybody, but it's it's almost
like kind of like a stealthy operation in a way in that.
So understated. Understated.
Yeah. I'm.
I'm not trying to prove to anybody that I look great.
You know, if they see the way I'm put together, they might
think so, they might not. But I don't have a need to
convince anybody that my style is cool because it's my style.
Tell me about your grooming, because I know that's something
that's quite important to you. Yeah, I I'm it is important, but
I am very low maintenance. I get a haircut once every three
weeks. That's not low.
Mates Well, you say that it depends on on men's hair this
length. It's low maintenance actually,
because it gets my hair goes grows outwards rather than it
just gets big. And so as soon as I know it
looks good, I know the next day it needs a cut.
And that's kind of my highest maintenance thing is I get a
haircut count every three weeks. Otherwise, I cleanse in the
shower, moisturize, and that's about it.
And sun cream. I wear a lot of sun cream if I'm
out about. In fact, my daily moisturizer
has SPF in it. Now you've been on this sort of
body transformation journey. Yeah.
I'm just curious as to when, when do you slow up on that
because it does affect how your clothes fit you, right,
particularly you're tailoring. Yeah, sweaters and.
Absolutely no. But do you have a sort of goal
in mind or somewhere that you'll say, okay, these shoulders are
right? Big enough I go by how I look in
the mirror and how my clothes fit my brother's my personal
trainer from a distance yeah, from a distance he's a back home
in Norwich. But I've joined this program
that he has. And so I go to the gym on my own
and I and I do my stuff. And as long as I look OK, I
don't really care about the scales.
I don't really care about the numbers and the weights I'm
lifting. It's primarily my time with the
gym is my time where I'm nothing to anybody.
It's my own time to be me. And it just so happens to come
with a healthy, fitter body. And I can do things now
physically that I couldn't do before that my knee doesn't hurt
like it used to. One of my shoulders used to
bother me. It doesn't anymore.
I can throw my kids up in the air and it's great.
It happens to also come with looking better naked and in
clothes. There is a point though where I
put one of my suits on recently and it's a gorgeous suit.
It's from Dunhill and it was entirely bespoke and I love it
and I put it on as a oh, it's quite tight now on the shoulder
so I can get it adjusted but the shoulders are the thing you
can't adjust right. So I can get it adjusted around
the chest and when that starts getting, I can't replace it.
So when I get bigger than that, that's going to be the issue
because it's not that that suit is necessarily the most
important thing in my wardrobe. But if that doesn't fit and that
is made for me, then nothing else will.
Have you ever used a stylist? I get style for shoots sometimes
but I've never had a stylist for personal use.
Have you ever been taken way out of your comfort zone in shoots?
No, when I'm, when I'm on a shoot, I'm not really me.
I'm sort of their piece of meat. And I enjoy that because I'm not
in charge of anything. And I'm like, yeah, dress me, do
what you want. You know, I kind of enjoy that
sort of escapism. Sometimes I want to shoot and I
style myself and that's great. But I actually prefer having a
team of people who are in charge of all their separate operations
because, and if it were just left to me, I'd look the same
and everything. Yeah, it's quite nice to have
somebody else do it for. Me.
So you're a bit of a uniform man, aren't you?
Kind of. Yeah, Yeah, did.
You wear a school uniform. Yeah, I was the, I was the first
year where they introduced like a blazer and obviously we didn't
have any money so my mum bought one for me and my brother.
So she had to buy it twice in about 8 sizes too big.
Thinking we'll grow into it, yeah.
Let's talk about travel. Do you pay particular attention
to your airport look? No, I, I don't understand people
that do. I don't.
I couldn't care less. I want to get from A to B as
comfortably as possible, particularly now I've got the
children. I'm going to get stuff on me
anyway. I'm, I don't care how I look at
all on a flight. I don't even put anything in my
hair. I wear a cap sometimes or I
don't think I'm going to have the headphones on.
Yeah, genuinely, it's one of those, one of those times.
I was having a chat with my sister about it recently because
she really cares. I'm like why have all the places
to be seen like I don't care are.
You a good Packer or a bad Packer?
I'm the best Packer in the world.
I'm humble too. Yeah, yeah, because I do it so
often. I have a go bag which has my
passport and my wires and charges all, all ready to go.
And then oh. My God, you sound like a
pregnant woman. I am so efficient now I I'm
going to Paris actually I've got a lot of notices like in two
weeks time, but I know that I can get a call and go, hey,
you're going somewhere tomorrow. I'll go.
OK, cool. I'm ready.
So yeah, I'm pretty good. I always end up overpacking.
Favorite luggage? I have Rimowa in the bright
yellow, which is so not my Yeah, my.
Why is that? Yeah, because it's the first
thing you see when it comes off the.
Now, are you never worried about your Rimowa luggage, your
beautiful Rimowa luggage being nicked off the belt?
No, I'm usually because it's so bright yellow, it's so
traceable. And I've also got one of those
apple Ding Dong things in it do. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And so sometimes I have my
suitcase and it beeps at me. I'm like whoa, because I forget
it's in there, but I know I can track it if I need to.
But yeah, bright coloured suitcase is one of the best
things I've done in terms of. Travelling.
It's clever, it's clever. Which brand would you say is
your guilty secret? I don't know if I have a guilty
secret brand because again, a lot of stuff I I wear M&S is
fantastic, sun spells fantastic. They both do a similar job at a
different price point, and they're both very much my
aesthetic. I don't really lean into big
designers. I do have a, a a problem with
tailoring in that I always want more.
And so that's one of my guilty. Like a secret is that I'm always
like, well I want a new suit even though I don't need one.
And so where would be your first port of call for that?
Again, my my downhill suit that I have is gorgeous, but it's so
outrageously expensive and I don't think I could ever wear it
enough to warrant that. It really depends.
I love Geeves, although Geez is quite structured.
I love Drakes. I've yet to have one in my
collection but I really am enjoying their aesthetic.
It's super, I don't say slouchy, but it's soft and it's it just
looks comfortable. It's a bit unstructured.
So unstructured and again, because I've got broad shoulders
and I hold myself well, I can wear unstructured without it
looking sloppy. So again, it's expensive.
So I've yet to sort of make make the jump for one.
Guilty Secret What is the most expensive item of clothing that
you've bought? Probably that jacket that I
turned up in, which is now a really.
Slim and tell me about that. That's from Dunhill.
I used to work with Dunhill quite a lot and they have gifted
me many suits in in my time, but they were all off the peg and
off the peg doesn't really fit me because I've got arms like a
tarantula and so they were always a little bit short.
So most of those haven't survived the journey and also
they were, they were very slim. The one that I have that's
bespoke is gorgeous, but I'd always, because I was working
with him a lot, I spent a lot of time in that store and it's just
gorgeous. And I saw that jacket and it's
pink suede. It's now not so pink because
I've had it for a long time and the sun has faded it.
Let's talk about your approach to jewellery You don't look
like. You wear.
I don't wear a thing anymore. I did for a long time.
I didn't wear my wedding ring or anything, partly because I'm
spending a lot of time drawing and writing and all that
clickety clap. And then if I'm drawing, I'd
kind of like my hands to be free.
And I'm in the gym a lot, so I don't want to always take my
jewellery off. And I've got like weird fingers
where the knuckles are quite big.
But the actual juicy bit is not getting the ring over my
knuckles is hard work. Do you wear hats at all?
Yeah, quite often when I'm when I'm lazy and can't be bothered
to do my hair. Or sometimes I just think it
suits. Out of choice.
You should wear a cap, but it's got to be a specific kind
because I've got a tiny head. So what type is it got?
To have a boy or a no, just just like a peak cap, Yeah, But it's
got to have like a soft front because if they have that, that
sort of that harder bit. Oh, so you're talking like a
baseball cap? Yeah, like a baseball.
Cap, but so not a trucker's cap. Not a trucker one, no, because
suddenly it makes my it it comes up to here on me.
So I'll wear a yeah like a baseball cap but it's kind of
like soft and I have a collection of them now.
Actually my go to brand for them is AMI because they make them
and they're the same shape so I know the ones I'm getting every
time and I've got them like 4 colours.
Let's just talk about sustainable fashion and your
approach to it, which I I think you sound like you're very into
buy less, buy better, but what do you do with your things when
you've had enough of them? We will either charity shops do
really well out of us, me and Sarah, or I find if it's like a
really gorgeous item I will find a home for it.
I'll ring a mate or I'll give it to my brother or someone like
it. Seems as shame to not give it a
new home. Before it was charity.
We do Vinted. I was going to say, do you use
any resale platforms? Yeah, I mean, I don't Sarah does
it all because she loves it and for me it's as admin.
But she she loves like being like this business woman about
it and I think it's hilarious. So we have like a pile like the
Vinted pile, but I would much rather rehome things and just
send it to landfill. And and does she ever use any
other resale sites because you know, if you're if you no longer
love a suit, for example, something that's really.
Yeah, she does vestier a bit. She also she is it called her,
it's like a rental. It's like the rental one.
She does that quite a bit for things if if we're going to an
event, because again, for a for a woman, it's more difficult,
right? Because you can wear an outfit
but you're not expected to be seen in it again.
Whereas for a man in a suit, if I don't re wear the suit it's
odd. Although I think now I would
like to think that we are through that and actually now
looks clever. I would I'd be inclined to
agree, but Even so, there are times where Sarah, for example,
doesn't want to wear the same thing again.
She wants to wear a different look.
Whereas I can rework a suit with a different shirt or different
trousers. And so rather than buy it, she
rents it. Yeah, great.
And she looks good and everything.
So it's actually really frustrating sometimes.
Like how do you just put it on and look like that?
What is the oldest piece in your wardrobe?
A jacket from Burberry which is like a Shirling 1, which again
I've had for a long time and is very expensive and it doesn't
quite fit anymore again, but I I'm reluctant to let it go.
Best, yeah. Yeah, I'm reluctant, but but I
have a thing where I I don't care so much about the sentiment
of my clothes. And it might be a bit weird
because a lot of people don't, but I don't do that with many
physical things. My house, for example, it's
lovely because it's my house is where I live.
But I'm, if I could move out tomorrow and not be bothered.
My watches, I sold them. I don't have a great deal of
sentiment around things. And so I love that jacket
because it's beautiful, but not so much because of the brand.
And so now it's getting a little snug.
I'm going to give it this winter and if I don't wear it this
winter, it's gone. It's gone.
And just one final thing, glasses, because you wear them
all the time. I don't.
I had laser eye surgery, I had LASIK about eight years ago and
it's my vision was terrible and it's been life changing.
But I wear them when I want to. These are the blue light filter
in them. So sometimes I wear them if I
fancy it. I'm sorry, what's a blue light
filter? Oh, you don't know this?
No. OK, so blue light is like it
keeps you awake all the time. And if you're looking at a
screen, they glare out a lot of blue light.
Oh I see what you're saying. The blue light comes off your
phone or a screen. Yeah, or it's.
Filters that out. Filters that out so you're less
exposed to like light all the time and we're all, we all get
light pollution. And if in the evening you're
watching a show or you're on your phone, it actually keeps
your brain awake longer than it needs to be.
Fascinating I. Had no idea.
That because I'm on my laptop or my phone most of the day.
Sometimes I wear them, but also I like to wear them
aesthetically. You know, I've got a few frames
that I really enjoy. And where do you go for?
Your these are from Blue Bloom, which are.
I'd never heard of them until recently, and they're much
heavier than I normally wear. But my hair's a bit longer than
it has been recently, and I kind of feel like it it it's quite
nice. So sometimes I just feel like I
want to do something with my face.
Yeah, yeah. No, let's move on to some quick
fire questions. What fashion advice would you
give your 20 year old self? Oh, it'll be OK.
Fashion trend you'd most like to see make a comeback.
I think it's already here. There's a there's a real lean at
the moment towards tailoring. Fashion or beauty trend you
would consign to room 101. Oh, anything that's just tight.
So you don't do skinny jeans? No, I did.
I think everyone did. Looking back at it, it's just
uncomfortable. And like it's also, it's not.
You're supposed to be able to move your body in clothes.
That's the point of them. Your last impulse buy?
I don't buy impulsively. That's really refreshing and
positive. I love that views on tattoos.
I don't have any personally. And listen, I'm, I'm really
creative. It's what I do for a living.
It's what I love to do and so I can totally appreciate body art
on on certain people, but for me, I just don't think it would
fit my aesthetic. It wouldn't suit me.
Grooming treatment you couldn't give up.
Just haircuts, very easy. High end or High Street?
Buy what you can afford. Minimalism or maximalism?
Minimalism, Crocs, cute or puke? I'm a big fan of the Birkenstock
mules, which are croc adjacent. They're they're the same sort of
like shape, but they are I I like to think that the the the
mules are maybe like a a thinking man's croc do.
You have the sheepskin lined ones.
No, they're comfy though. I wear.
They're my most worn shoe. I live in those popping out to
the shops. Just slip my feet in, I'm off.
Sambas or gazelles? They're the same thing, aren't
they? I can't tell.
I couldn't tell the difference. Well, they they were until Rishi
wore them, right? Sports Lux or Rock'n'roll?
Rock'n'roll. Chinos or cargoes?
That's the toughest. I don't really like either.
Savile Row or jeans? Savile Row.
Trendle style. Style all the way.
Color or monochrome? Color if you can do it right.
Pattern or plain? Plain.
Experimental or uniform? Uniform.
But when you've got a uniform, you can then start to
experiment, right? Cashmere or cotton Cashmere
order or editor. Editor.
Charity shop or resale? Resale.
Boxes or briefs? Boxes.
Budgie smugglers or board shorts?
02 ends of the spectrum. I would rather Oh, I don't know,
this is a tough one to answer. I'm going to have to go board
shorts because that but actually I wear sort of like I don't know
what you've got mid thigh, you know, the normal length ones,
neither the really tight ones and neither the the long ones.
Beanie or baseball cap? Baseball cap?
And finally, traditional question at the end of the day,
what do you or don't you wear in bed?
If I'm at home, nothing. If I'm somewhere else, is
probably impolite to so I will then sleep in my pants.
Jim, thank you. Thank you so much.
What fun to hear all about you. Thanks for having me.
Style Secret to go on a style journey with.
You thank you. What fun.