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I've always believed that style 
isn't just about what we wear, 

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it's about how we feel and how 
we hold ourselves. 

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And for me, feeling confident 
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within. 
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The code Amanda 20. 
Today I'm going on a style 

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journey with the director. 
Of M&S woman, the visionary 

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Maddie Evans. 
Hello and welcome, Maddie. 

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Hello Amanda. 
Thank you for having me. 

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Now you have presided over the 
most dramatic reinvention of 

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women's wear in many decades. 
So a chapeau to you Cos amazing.

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What do you believe has been 
your secret weapon? 

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That's a that's a big question 
and it's something I get asked 

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on a very regular basis. 
So it should be an easy answer 

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that trips off the tongue. 
But I think, you know, I've 

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worked in the fashion business 
for a very long time now. 

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I was lucky enough to go through
the kind of transformation of a 

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business many years ago that was
Topshop and really kind of be 

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under the wing of a very 
inspirational leader at that 

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time who was a massive change 
agent. 

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And that was Jane Shepherdson, 
who I have a lot of time for and

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I credit her with a lot of the 
change that she kind of drove to

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democratise fashion within the 
UK and and really I would say 

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change the face of the UK kind 
of High Street pretty 

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fundamentally as well. 
So having been part of that 

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journey of transformation and 
being led and inspired in that 

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way as well, it certainly gave 
me the knowledge, the insight 

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around, you know, how you go 
about that, what you need and 

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you know, those strategic 
objectives that are really 

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important to make change. 
But most importantly, the team 

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that you need to help you move 
at pace as well, who are when 

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you set a vision, they have the 
same level of clarity and they 

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become your kind of change 
agents as well. 

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So thinking about that 
transition from Topshop moving 

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into M&S and my God, what a 
privilege it was to kind of take

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that take over the helm there. 
But it was quite clear from the 

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outset that there was a lot of 
kind of reliance on history and 

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a lot of, I think kind of for 
some reason or another, a 

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perception around the customer 
that wasn't actually true. 

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And that was really about the 
fact that when you talk to the 

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design teams directly or to the 
buying teams and you ask them 

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about who our customer was and 
who they were designing for, it 

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was very much a kind of 
perception of an older lady. 

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And that perception of the older
lady was because she was older 

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Star wasn't important to her. 
And as we all know now, that is 

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a complete myth and an 
obstruction. 

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And so that was the point of 
which it was really clear that 

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there was something kind of very
kind of customer focus where we 

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needed to change that mindset. 
And quite often we were in those

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kind of initial meetings looking
at clothing on the walls or 

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clothing on the rails. 
And I had this kind of moment of

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reflection with looking around 
the room. 

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And we've got a really diverse 
set of colleagues in the 

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business, you know, all ages, 
all backgrounds, very, very 

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diverse. 
And that one I saw diverse from 

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an age perspective as well. 
So we've got 25 year olds, we've

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got 65 year olds in the room. 
And a very kind of person and 

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poignant question, which I think
led to this initial kind of 

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reset and change was would 
anyone in the room actually wear

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this product, please? 
Put your hand up. 

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And not one single person did. 
And there was probably about 40 

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people in the room at the time. 
And I think that was the moment 

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of reflection for everybody 
around, OK, if this isn't the 

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case. 
And I, and I actually referred 

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to my mother, my grandmother at 
the time, you know, they're 70, 

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they're 90 before they've, my 
grandmother passed away. 

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And what I do know is, you know,
to be considered as old and 

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unstylish would be something 
that didn't sit with them. 

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And what I did know is the way 
they present the word self, the 

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way they consider, the way they 
dress, their terms of reference,

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you know, wasn't about something
over here. 

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It was something about, you 
know, wanting to feel stylish, 

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wanting to feel modern and 
wanting to feel relevant. 

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And that is what really 
underpinned and drove the change

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within the business. 
Well, so how did you actually, 

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you, you established that things
weren't right, which we we all 

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could feel, but So what was the,
you know, did you mood board? 

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How what was that? 
How was that your vision 

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communicated? 
What we and and this is really 

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important, I had a perception of
the business and the M&S 

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customer before I came in. 
I had a lot played back from the

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teams around who they short 
thought she was and thought 

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thought exactly. 
And bearing in mind we've got I 

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think 13 million plus customers.
That's a lot of customers that 

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we are servicing. 
So it's it's, it's very, very 

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broad church. 
So yeah, we I came in with the 

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original kind of reception. 
But the fabulous thing about 

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working for M&S is that we've 
got the best customer insights 

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and that's on a number of 
different levels. 

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We've got all of the colleagues 
inside the business, we've got 

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all of the colleagues in the 
stores. 

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And we've got an incredible 
customer insight team who goes 

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out into the UK and actually, 
you know, sits down round tables

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or does surveys. 
And it's on a very regular basis

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with a broad spectrum of people 
up and down the country, all age

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groups, all profiles, all 
demographics. 

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So to have to have that resource
is incredible and everything 

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that got played back is 
everything that you would 

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expect. 
And essentially it was we trust 

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you because of your quality, you
know, and we know from a 

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customer perception perspective,
we've LED in quality and we 

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continue to lead in quality. 
We trust you from a value 

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perspective as well. 
So we've that's really integral,

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integral. 
That's part of our DNA is the 

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business. 
We lead in that as well. 

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And we have to protect that. 
That's what our customers, you 

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know, know us for. 
That's where we've built our 

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reputation. 
That's what we have to protect 

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at all costs. 
But from a style perspective, 

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the third question, where do we 
sit very, very low in the 

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ranking when we came in. 
So it was very clear from the 

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outset, protect those two 
things. 

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But we've got to address our * 
perception. 

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And that was not just from 
product, but how we present and 

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how we communicate about that 
product as well. 

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So that really was the vision, 
those three kind of, I guess 

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pillars. 
And we made it very clear then 

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from a star perspective. 
So the question was what does 

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that mean and what does it mean 
to different people? 

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And I think we quite quickly 
established as as well, again, 

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using the customer insight and 
the colleagues in particular as 

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well in the stores, because we 
work in stores, we're very close

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to the colleagues in stores, was
that it wasn't necessarily 

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about, you know, leading in 
trend, but it was about being 

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influenced by the trends at more
of a kind of macro rather than a

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micro level. 
And every single customer that 

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we spoke to wanted to feel #1 
stylish, but where they could 

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make it their own personal 
style, their own, you know, 

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their own take. 
And thus giving them enough 

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choice to be able to do that, 
but also to feel like they were 

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on point, that they were kind of
relevant in the kind of social 

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world, You know, when they went 
out and met their friends, when 

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they went to dinner with their 
families, that was really, 

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really important to them. 
And we were not providing that 

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product for them. 
So you walk through the doors, 

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you unravel all of that and in 
the designer business product 

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takes a year from first 
conception all the way through 

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to on the shop floor. 
Is M&S the same or are you 

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shorter lead times It's. 
Well, when I walked in through 

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the door, it was certainly on 
the 52 weeks cycle. 

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And you were inheriting, yes, 
all of this stock design, 

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correct? 
Everything that were already on,

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like all the fashion. 
Hats, yeah, that's right. 

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Working on three seasons at the 
same time and yes, we, we were 

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inheriting a, a number of 
seasons stock that had already 

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been designed, developed produce
and it was on its way. 

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But that that's kind of OK 
because you can, it means then 

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you've got the time to look 
forward and plan, make a plan. 

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And your question around the 
kind of lead times that we call 

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it. 
So how long does it take from 

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kind of cod and set to customer?
We particularly coming from a 

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faster fashion business that was
a bit of a kind of OK need, need

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to rethink this in terms of how 
we go about it. 

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What's the process? 
Have we got the right sourcing, 

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have we got the right supply 
base to facilitate this 

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transformation? 
And are we working in an agile 

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enough way to be able to 
accelerate the change? 

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And what we were able to do is 
just approach things slightly 

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differently. 
And the first thing we went 

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about was looking about where we
make our product. 

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And for anybody who doesn't 
know, it seems really obvious, 

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but but not always, obviously 
the further away you make 

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something, the longer it takes 
to get into your business. 

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The closer you make it to your 
business to to where you're kind

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of to the UK, the faster it is 
obviously to bring that product 

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in. 
So we switched where we were 

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making things. 
So we were taking out of the 

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longer and putting more into the
shorter, mostly so that we could

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test and learn. 
And, and that's a really 

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important kind of unlock as 
well, because you've got a, you 

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know, a vision, you build a 
strategy based on the style, 

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value and quality. 
But you've really got to test 

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that, you know. 
When you say test and learn, 

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00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,480
just explain that to the 
listener. 

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Yeah. 
So thinking about your product 

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development cycle, thinking 
about how you set out at the 

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beginning of the season, So 
right at the very beginning, 

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you've got all of the kind of 
insights from trend resource. 

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00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,920
We've got a trend team in our 
business as well. 

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00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,320
We've got a brilliant design 
team and they kind of go out and

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explore and bring back what are 
the big kind of customer trends,

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what are the big kind of market 
trends and what are the product 

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trends as well. 
So with all of that information,

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they distill that into a, we 
call it a DPS, which is a design

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product strategy. 
And the teams take that away and

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build their own product, you 
know, category development from 

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that. 
So that that is their kind of 

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00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,800
Holy Grail. 
That's their Bible, that's their

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00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,920
terms of reference. 
And whilst they're developing 

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that product, we do have a 
structured process around 

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reviewing the product, engaging 
the teams, engaging the 

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leadership. 
And then there's an official 

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00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,080
sign off process at the very 
end. 

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But we went about kind of 
disrupting that a little bit and

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tasking ourselves with in 
certain areas, where could we go

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faster and where could we test 
some new kind of things product.

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And one of those examples I 
would say was denim, because we 

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make a lot in Bangladesh, we 
make, we used to make in China, 

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we also make in Turkey and 
Turkey a real specialists when 

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it comes to denim, whether it's 
authenticity, whether it's the 

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kind of yarn development, you 
know, they, they really are the 

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00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,000
experts that they kind of 
founded denim within Europe. 

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So we had that facility 
basically to work very, very 

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closely with the supplier around
how we could short, circus, 

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short circuit the process and 
develop into some new styles. 

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So when I arrived, we were, you 
know, very, very dominant in 

226
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,360
denim, full stop. 
We were leading in the market. 

227
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,240
We were doing a fantastic job, 
but it was very one note. 

228
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,800
There wasn't a huge amount of 
choice and essentially about 70%

229
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,080
of our sales were being driven 
by skinny jeans. 

230
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,200
And this was in a point where, 
as I'm sure you know, and it's 

231
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,440
not just been in the last few 
years, this has probably been in

232
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,080
the last four, 5-6 years, the 
denim kind of silhouette has 

233
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,760
massively changed. 
And so you have got a huge 

234
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,680
amount of choice now. 
So we took, you know, skinnies 

235
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,280
aside, what else do we need to 
do? 

236
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080
So there's a wide leg, there's a
barrel leg, there's a carrot 

237
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:37,120
leg. 
I mean, there are so many 

238
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600
different leg shapes. 
So we took kind of 3/4 of those,

239
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,680
developed them really, really 
quickly with the suppliers. 

240
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,080
The suppliers were able to 
facilitate that and we were able

241
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,960
to kind of get that into the 
business within about 12-16 

242
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:59,160
weeks, which which was a way of 
working which the teams were not

243
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,680
used to previously. 
But what it meant was you could 

244
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,800
land that in store and you could
measure quite quickly what the 

245
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,880
demand was and how the customer 
felt about it. 

246
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,280
And no surprises, it resonated 
really well. 

247
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,880
It it, it, it landed 
brilliantly. 

248
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,720
We got huge amount of positive 
feedback, but importantly they 

249
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,240
sold fantastically. 
And out of interest, when you're

250
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,000
testing something like that, do 
you test it online as well as in

251
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,560
store? 
Both channels and do you have? 

252
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,120
Sort of what I call concept 
stores that, you know, are like,

253
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,880
for example, I visited that one 
up in Cheshire, Cheshire Oaks. 

254
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,200
Oh my God, it is the most 
phenomenal M&S I've ever been. 

255
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,680
My mother lives up there and and
so I will pop there several 

256
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,520
times a year to just sort of top
up things for her and me. 

257
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,480
And it's just a pleasure to shop
there. 

258
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:04,320
So is that the type of store? 
Yeah, we we to make sure you get

259
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,920
a really kind of full response. 
Yes, online for obvious reasons,

260
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,800
but then we choose big stores, 
medium sized stores and smaller 

261
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,880
stores as well. 
So, so you get a real sense of, 

262
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,000
you know, the scale of which you
could build out on this. 

263
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,400
Particular product, how 
exciting, how exciting, I mean 

264
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,560
we're talking about 
manufacturing, how much are you 

265
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,160
able to manufacture in the good 
old? 

266
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:41,120
UK, not very much at the moment 
to be brutally honest and not 

267
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,880
something that I would, you 
know, choose if, if there were 

268
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,280
options. 
But it's commercially, it's 

269
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,800
really, really challenging for, 
for for a business right now to 

270
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,640
be able to facilitate that in a 
profitable. 

271
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,480
Way, yeah. 
Do you ever see a day that that 

272
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,960
might change or. 
I think that there's certainly a

273
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,200
number of kind of very 
passionate designers and 

274
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,200
businesses in the UK who are 
really trying to make change 

275
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,680
there. 
But honestly until I guess 

276
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:22,200
there's a, a way in which we can
design and develop products in a

277
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,440
way that fits into our price 
architecture that the M&S 

278
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,960
customer is used to paying or is
comfortable with paying and is, 

279
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,880
you know, feels like delivers 
the style value and quality 

280
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,520
equation, I think that's going 
to be quite challenging, I mean.

281
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,920
Because top of your pyramid, if 
I'm correct, would be Jaeger. 

282
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,960
Yes, correct, Correct, yes. 
And is that even a possibility? 

283
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:53,120
To with yes, I mean there are 
what I would say even if it's 

284
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,440
not manufacturing, what we do do
on Jaeger is source some of our 

285
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,120
materials and some of our yarns 
from the UK. 

286
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:05,640
So, so there are ways around 
being able to, you know, utilise

287
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,200
what's brilliant about UK 
manufacturing, even if it's not 

288
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,160
in actually creating a product. 
It's the kind of at the earliest

289
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,400
stages in the fabrications and 
the yarns. 

290
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,200
I mean it, it's heartbreaking 
really, isn't it? 

291
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,760
And you know, it was when I was 
in my business, it was 

292
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,800
heartbreaking not to be. 
Able to manufacture, No, I mean 

293
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:32,360
when I was the, in the early 
years of Topshop, we did a huge 

294
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:36,680
amount of business mostly on 
jersey T-shirts out of Leicester

295
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,800
and probably on a weekly basis. 
I was on the train and and the 

296
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,000
ability to be able to pivot and 
be flexible and react and 

297
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,040
respond to the customers need as
a result of that was really, 

298
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,440
really compelling. 
The fact that everyone in the 

299
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:01,840
UK, I'll just say the UK, but 
but we're also invested in M&S, 

300
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,080
does that ever feel like just 
the most monumental pressure 

301
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,360
that that everyone's got these 
expectations of you, your team, 

302
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:15,240
the product? 
Yes is the short answer to that.

303
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,640
But equally, I see it as a huge 
privilege as as do my teams to 

304
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,880
be able to serve our customers 
and to be able to, I think, you 

305
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,600
know, what gets us me up in the 
morning, my teams up in the 

306
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,160
morning is the excitement around
providing something to our 

307
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,440
customers that's going to either
service them on a more kind of 

308
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,840
basic level. 
Because there's lots of products

309
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,080
in our business that are, you 
know, investment pieces that are

310
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,160
brilliant wardrobe underpinners 
and a lot of volume is driven 

311
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,960
out of that. 
But equally from all of that 

312
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,360
customer insight, a really 
important piece of the feedback 

313
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,040
as well, particularly in that 
kind of post COVID. 

314
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,800
So that's when I joined as well,
was around inspiring us and 

315
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,280
really showcasing how you put 
product together. 

316
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,400
Because I think when you've 
worked in fashion for quite some

317
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,400
time, you get quite used to, you
know? 

318
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,160
Building an outfit essentially, 
and a lot of women find that 

319
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,360
really challenging and they do 
need support and they do need 

320
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,920
help and they do need guidance 
and that is our job we feel that

321
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,240
we have to do to provide that 
for them. 

322
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,320
And so when you came into this 
role, did you get very involved 

323
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,640
in the visuals and the. 
Yes, I've I have because it's. 

324
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,920
One thing to design great 
products, it's another whole 

325
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,880
thing to communicate it 
brilliantly. 

326
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,480
Absolutely. 
And it's yeah, it, it doesn't 

327
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,640
stop at that point. 
Absolutely. 

328
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,400
Your, your vision has to play 
out, you know, whether it's 

329
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,280
through, you know, the 
communication through our 

330
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,720
channels, so through digital and
through our stores, but also 

331
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,080
then through, you know, social 
is so important now. 

332
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,040
The partners, the influencers, 
the ambassadors, and then 

333
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,560
obviously from a marketing 
communication perspective as 

334
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:16,320
well, working incredibly closely
with our marketing team team was

335
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,120
a real turning point for us 
because again, coming into the 

336
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:21,800
business, it was very 
independent. 

337
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,200
And I don't think there's any 
way that you're able to deliver 

338
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,200
a communication that's right for
all your customers without 

339
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,880
working literally seamlessly 
hand in glove to deliver the 

340
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,360
same vision as well, not 
different visions. 

341
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:44,440
And I think that played out 
initially by a good example is 

342
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,800
how we show up in stores. 
And when we joined, it was very 

343
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,000
much presented by category. 
So you'd go in very, very 

344
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,560
mission LED. 
You would have your T-shirt 

345
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,000
area, you would have your jumper
area, you would have your jacket

346
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,200
area. 
O really easy to shop from a you

347
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,920
know, in and out. 
I get what I need, but massively

348
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,480
lacking in insiration and 
engagement. 

349
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:15,280
And we had to kind of incite 
that change and present it in a 

350
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,160
much more coordinated way so we 
could deliver that inspiration 

351
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,400
around outfit building. 
And yeah, just just a general 

352
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,760
kind of sense of an overarching 
trend as opposed to a category 

353
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,680
LED presentation and and that 
incited real change. 

354
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:41,240
Yeah, I mean, you have, I've 
done some spectacularly inspired

355
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,720
collaborations. 
Like, you know, I think of 

356
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,240
Sienna Miller, for example. 
Talk me through that. 

357
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,160
Yeah, because I think she, I 
mean, she's such a style icon. 

358
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000
Yes, and a British style icon. 
British style. 

359
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,720
Icon. 
And she's no longer 22, so 

360
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,240
there's all those what I call 
tick. 

361
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,640
Tick ticks. 
Where did that come? 

362
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,600
From, Well, Rewind before we got
to Sienna, we were very clear as

363
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,040
part of our strategy to change 
style perception, partnering 

364
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:20,640
with stylish, either, you know, 
celebrities or fashion designers

365
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:26,040
or anybody who could help us 
change that perception, but also

366
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,320
really give us credibility in 
fashion as opposed to products. 

367
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,400
So whilst, you know, it was 
something we, we were very 

368
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,040
determined to kind of press 
ahead with getting to a list of 

369
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,960
people who we thought would, to 
your point, tickle those boxes. 

370
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,480
That's that's not not easy and 
that's not straightforward. 

371
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,960
But Sienna absolutely did for 
all the reasons you just 

372
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,120
described. 
You know, she's synonymous with 

373
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,800
style. 
She's a woman who's matured in 

374
00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,800
in in front of the cameras and 
she's haven't had an evolution 

375
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,360
of style. 
I think as well her wardrobe has

376
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,240
changed as as she's grown up and
she's matured. 

377
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,400
And we really, really kind of 
that resonated with us as as a 

378
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,920
business and we were pretty sure
that it would with our customer 

379
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,640
as well. 
And we did strength test that as

380
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,640
well. 
And that was a firm kind of yes.

381
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,120
And just that kind of 
partnership with a woman who's 

382
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:26,520
really clear about her own 
identity as well. 

383
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,040
But equally, she has her own 
kind of, you know, I'm sure she 

384
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,200
wouldn't mind me saying this, 
but, you know, lacking 

385
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,400
self-confidence sometimes as we.
All every woman on the. 

386
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,560
Planet, as we all do, even 
though she is, you know, 

387
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,360
sensationally beautiful and, you
know, and, you know, a very 

388
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:47,200
confident woman herself. 
So, yeah, that that was a 

389
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,480
brilliant partnership, a 
brilliant process. 

390
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,520
And I think we both equally 
really enjoyed the process. 

391
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,600
On the Sienna collaboration, 
how, how did that work? 

392
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,880
Did you know? 
Just talk me through it for. 

393
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:05,800
The process, yeah, the process. 
So we were clear on the season 

394
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:11,080
that we were going to work on 
and we were also clear in the 

395
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,280
business that we wanted her to 
lead this. 

396
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,440
You know, she was one of our 
style inspirations, one of our 

397
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:24,440
style icons for all the reasons 
I think we and I certainly enjoy

398
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,360
about watching her and the way 
she puts her product to get all 

399
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:33,360
her clothes together. 
It's she has a very strong sense

400
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:39,480
of personal style and there are 
a lot of women who look to her 

401
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,640
as an inspiration and certainly 
some, you know, take guidance 

402
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,960
from the way that she puts her 
clothes together. 

403
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,880
So that that was kind of what we
were trying to harness. 

404
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,920
So we went into our first 
meeting having that conversation

405
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,880
and then it was just a real 
partnership around how we went 

406
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,440
about it. 
So we she delved into her 

407
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,760
wardrobe. 
Oh, great. 

408
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,880
I know I didn't get to go. 
I. 

409
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,360
Thought you might say script. 
All that meeting, but our 

410
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,320
designers did so that that was 
the start point. 

411
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,040
Those lucky people. 
But so we, they, they literally 

412
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,040
came back in to, well, I think 
they spent time at the house, 

413
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,360
they came back in. 
We were in our offices. 

414
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,920
And that really was the start 
point of, OK, we've got the 

415
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,960
seasonal project, we've got the 
things that Sienna really, 

416
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,760
really loves and cherishes in 
her wardrobe and she feels 

417
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,880
comfortable sharing with us. 
So it's a very unique experience

418
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,720
to be part of that process. 
And yeah, she drove the design 

419
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,040
kind of strategy. 
She was very, very close to, you

420
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,280
know, the detail, the fit she 
was in trying all of it on, had 

421
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,560
a very clear vision about what 
it should look like, what it 

422
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,200
shouldn't look like, even down 
to button choices or collar 

423
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,800
details or finishes or piping or
the internals as well as the 

424
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,640
externals. 
And she's, she's got a 

425
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,400
brilliant, brilliant eye. 
She does have a brilliant eye. 

426
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,920
Really the most incredible. 
Taste. 

427
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,640
Were you at Topshop when the 
Cape Moss, was that a similar? 

428
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,040
Yeah, it was very, very similar 
process. 

429
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,040
Very similar process, yeah. 
Now, I mean there's so much talk

430
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,600
about sustainability and you 
know how we all should be buying

431
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,880
less etcetera, but yet the 
fashion industry is that the 

432
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,640
fashion model is sell more, 
more, more. 

433
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:46,040
How do you balance that at M&S? 
What's your? 

434
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,680
Approach to that, yeah, I think 
going back to that original 

435
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,040
pillar of trust around quality, 
I think that that's really the 

436
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:01,160
backbone of working with 
products that will last. 

437
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,800
So built to last week, we talk 
about and reference a lot. 

438
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,240
So you know, the source that we 
kind of get our material or our 

439
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,720
yarn from the way that we 
manufacture it. 

440
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,760
You know, the the kind of 
kindness and the time and the 

441
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,840
love that we put into developing
every product and just really 

442
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:27,640
making sure with each product 
that we carefully, you know, 

443
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,480
build that it's something that 
will be on our wardrobes 

444
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,840
forever. 
So it's forever pieces. 

445
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,120
It's not disposable, it's not 
throw away. 

446
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,680
And that really is at the core 
of the way that we think that we

447
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,400
work. 
And that is our approach. 

448
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,640
And it's it's about a hand me 
down or hand me on as well. 

449
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,640
So it might be in your wardrobe 
forever because it's got to have

450
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,760
a timelessness about it that you
can bring it out again and 

451
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
again. 
But equally important is that 

452
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,760
you can gift, you can give, you 
can hand over whether it's to 

453
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,800
family, whether it's to friends,
whether it's beyond that. 

454
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,560
So that that's really at the 
core and centre of what we do. 

455
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,400
M&S stamp of quality attached. 
To it, yeah. 

456
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,920
Is AI part of the business in 
any way really? 

457
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:20,720
It's, it is, but I would say 
there is an opportunity to 

458
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,480
really optimise that. 
I think everybody's, you know, 

459
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,360
using it, everyone's, you know, 
understanding it at a different 

460
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,560
pace as well. 
But whether it is to facilitate,

461
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,000
you know, even in a meeting 
situation where you know you can

462
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,840
bring AI into the room and it 
can document your notes in in a 

463
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:48,080
way that you know is is. 
Someone taking the car. 

464
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,320
In a way that someone could and 
certainly in a much more kind of

465
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,560
speedy way as well. 
So it it from an efficiency 

466
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,360
perspective, it's 
extraordinarily helpful. 

467
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,960
And then it's just how I guess 
less AI, more arraigned computer

468
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,920
aided design and development, 
you know, we use devices and 

469
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,320
programs, which means you can 
design digitally. 

470
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,400
And I guess this plays into, you
know, the life of a garment and 

471
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,040
sustainability as well and and 
usage where much more efficient.

472
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,320
Yeah, much more efficient. 
So you don't have to sample 5-6 

473
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,200
times. 
You agree the concept at a 

474
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,640
digital from a digital 
perspective. 

475
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,880
And it's not until you've made 
all those tweaks and changes and

476
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,760
refined it and you're 
comfortable and confident with 

477
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,920
that, that you then put it into 
making and producing a physical 

478
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,080
sample. 
So that in itself really pays 

479
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,720
into the sustainability. 
Absolutely, yes, yeah. 

480
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Whether that's less kind of 
movement of stock or actually 

481
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,960
less, you know, creation of it 
physically, it's an unlock. 

482
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,480
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, do you ever see a time 

483
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,920
where there will be AI on the 
site and you'll be able to 

484
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,800
upload the muddy avatar and you 
can try on your leather jacket? 

485
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,800
It will happen and it will. 
Happen more quickly than I think

486
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,080
most of us think I think you're.
Right. 

487
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,600
But today we're going on your 
style journey, so talk me 

488
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,840
through what you're wearing. 
Today, Amanda, I am wearing I'm 

489
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,000
actually I was I cut me in half 
and I'm M&S today because 

490
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,720
lingerie is very important 
we've. 

491
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,280
Got as you. 
Know huge market share in the 

492
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,720
lingerie market? 
What? 

493
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,160
Is your market share, can I just
ask that question 30%? 

494
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,560
It might be just under, but it's
there or thereabouts. 

495
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,880
So it's it's enormous. 
And you know, with that 

496
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,560
obviously comes a huge burden. 
Huge burden. 

497
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Well, yeah. 
Because it's very intimate, 

498
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520
obviously. 
And again, through through those

499
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,440
life stages, you know, whether 
it's, you know, your first bra 

500
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,040
post baby post surgery, you 
know, or, or as you're getting 

501
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,920
older and what, what that means 
to your body. 

502
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,680
How do you feel about your body 
as well? 

503
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,200
It's a really important part of 
a women's journey. 

504
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,960
So I am wearing M&S underwear 
and I'm actually wearing 

505
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,080
Charlotte, who's our M&S 
lingerie director, doing the 

506
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,440
most incredible job to modernise
the business. 

507
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,840
We'll need to perform that 
later. 

508
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:40,520
Yes, 100% has developed and 
delivered this sensational 10 LB

509
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,760
bra. 
It looks great, it feels great, 

510
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400
it fits brilliantly. 
I feel good in it. 

511
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,760
And is that moulded seamless? 
It's it's under wired, the one 

512
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,800
I'm wearing, it's multi 
coloured. 

513
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,720
We've got lace versions and and 
it's just it's you know, we're 

514
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,120
at the beginning of that 
journey. 

515
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,560
But again, it takes the style, 
value and quality. 

516
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,360
It's absolutely brilliant. 
I won't talk about my pants, but

517
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,200
my pants pants in terms of they 
don't, they don't. 

518
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,480
And that's another conversation 
altogether that we talk about a 

519
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,000
lot too. 
But my pants, pants in terms of 

520
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,880
my Trazers are a new, you can't 
see it here, but it's got a 

521
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,760
little kind of seam down the 
yes, a press seam as opposed to 

522
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:32,000
it's not a Pintuck and it is a 
very, very slim fare with a high

523
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,280
waist. 
It's a new fabric that we've 

524
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:41,880
just developped and it just for 
me certainly holds me in in all 

525
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,080
the right places. 
O it's denim. 

526
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,600
Yes, with a bit of yes, it's got
a little bit of stretch. 

527
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,080
So I personally like something 
that's more authentic that 

528
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,360
doesn't have stretch. 
But I think when you just put a 

529
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,080
tiny bit in and it's in that 
kind of nought .5 to 1% stretch 

530
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,280
within your denim kind of 
material, it just gives you a 

531
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,360
little bit of give and certainly
comfort. 

532
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,040
And that that is something I've 
missed out actually. 

533
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,040
Style value quality, style has 
to come with comfort. 

534
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,800
Without doubt, there's the. 2 
Completely interlinked. 

535
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,000
If it's not comfortable, it's 
not stylish, no. 

536
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,719
You're exactly you, you don't 
feel good, you know, and, and 

537
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,760
what you don't want is having 
clothes on your mind. 

538
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,440
They just need to be, you know, 
part of an extension of your 

539
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,040
body and the expression of your 
personality. 

540
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:43,480
So next I have an autograph. 
Lovely lining, very soft buttery

541
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,520
leather. 
I can attest to that because I 

542
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,159
did. 
We had a touch in the field and 

543
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,960
it's a yeah. 
It's a Blues on leather, Blues 

544
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,760
on jackets, huge, huge. 
Now going to be even bigger as 

545
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,000
we move forward. 
And it's got a zip front and 

546
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,320
it's got a little bit of kind of
gathering around the waist so 

547
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,640
that you can zip it up and tuck 
it in. 

548
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,440
And then you get a kind of 
slightly bigger proportion in 

549
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,960
terms of your silhouette. 
And what size are you wearing? 

550
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,440
I'm wearing a 12 and I'm. 
Not a 12. 

551
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,960
I am forever saying on Friday 
night fashion. 

552
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,520
Yes, size up a bit. 
Yes, yeah. 

553
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,000
And and I guess that's that's 
again another, you know, that's 

554
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,600
your personal start. 
You know, we provide the 

555
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,680
product, How you choose to wear 
it is another thing altogether. 

556
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,680
We can give you guidance, but 
then it comes down to what makes

557
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,160
you feel good? 
What? 

558
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,520
What gives you all the 
confidence to go out of the 

559
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,120
world? 
Yeah, and that and then a 

560
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,240
gorgeous merino. 
It's a merino, yes. 

561
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,680
I was having a bit of a kind of 
moment earlier as you can 

562
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,200
remember. 
But yes, it is very fine gauge. 

563
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,760
It feels almost like a second 
skin, but it's very breathable 

564
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,160
as well because it's natural 
fibres. 

565
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,680
And I've got a, you know, a 
variety of these in my wardrobe.

566
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,360
And a crew neck. 
I've only got a couple of roll 

567
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,040
necks, but the crew necks, I've 
had them for the last five years

568
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,560
and they look as beautiful now 
as the day I bought them. 

569
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,200
There's something about Marino 
that the right quality, yes. 

570
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,520
It just wears. 
It does wears washes and looks 

571
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,680
as good as new I. 
Was going to say it continues to

572
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,880
look as as good as new. 
And your shoes. 

573
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,560
Not in store yet. 
They're coming up. 

574
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,000
We've had loafers have been huge
again. 

575
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,760
They're they're just so easy to 
wear. 

576
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,720
They're a kind of modern classic
and they're autographed and 

577
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,560
they're coming in not until 
spring, unfortunately. 

578
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,760
So what we do get a chance to do
sometimes is wear a trial. 

579
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Oh I love. 
Wear a trial. 

580
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,920
Wear a trials. 
I'm always doing them because 

581
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,440
and not just me, the whole 
teams, you know, go away. 

582
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,600
How how does it sit? 
How does it feel? 

583
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:51,560
Does it make you feel good? 
Anything that you can improve 

584
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,360
on? 
Because there's nothing better 

585
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,000
than actually getting it on 
yourself to have a bit of 

586
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,960
perspective were. 
You very aware of your mother's 

587
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:04,040
style when you were growing up? 
Yes, yes. 

588
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,120
And my grandmother's actually 
before that, my mother's. 

589
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,080
I think mostly I have this kind 
of distinct recollection of and 

590
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,080
I think I don't know how old I 
must have been, but it must have

591
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,600
been pretty young the first 
time. 

592
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,880
I think, you know, when you're, 
when you're very young as a 

593
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,440
child, certainly when you're 
kind of first going to school, 

594
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,200
there's a feeling of wanting to 
not stand out and a bit of a 

595
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,760
kind of conform. 
And I remember we, I think we 

596
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,000
had to take photos in of our 
parents marriage or something. 

597
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,160
And I remember sitting around a 
table and you know, the 2030 

598
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,480
pictures on the table of white 
wedding dresses. 

599
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,720
This was in the 70s. 
I had to. 

600
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:54,280
I got my neck and my mum was 
wearing a crocheted, tiny 

601
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,440
delicate crocheted skull cap, 
gorgeous. 

602
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,160
A brain floral dress, high neck,
you know, very, very fitted, 

603
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,960
just kind of hitting the ankles.
A suede brain pair of kind of 

604
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,120
Mary Jane's and a fresh bunch of
picked flowers literally from 

605
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,880
the fields across the road. 
And my dad looked nothing short 

606
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,120
of John Lennon. 
I mean round spectacles, long 

607
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,800
hair, you know, brain roll neck,
brain DB suit and a pair of old 

608
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,760
loafers. 
And that was their wedding. 

609
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,800
And that was their wedding. 
And I just remember thinking, 

610
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,560
whoa, OK, my parents are kind of
different. 

611
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,320
And I didn't, you know, it was 
just a kind of reflection point 

612
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,600
that, you know, people choose to
wear different things and more 

613
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,120
of a kind of investigation for 
me really post that to think why

614
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,960
was that? 
You know, and then a a 

615
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,760
realisation there were as I was 
growing up, there were tribes 

616
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,360
and you know, there are, you 
know, which ones you belong to, 

617
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,600
which ones you feel kind of 
closest to, but equally you get,

618
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,600
you know, individuals who have 
their own personal sense of 

619
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,720
self-expression as well within 
that and they're the people who 

620
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,600
really stand out. 
So that was my kind of first 

621
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,240
kind of realisation that close 
did something to you. 

622
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:23,840
But then I had, my grandmother 
was very well travelled and an 

623
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,640
experience of going into her 
house and her always having kind

624
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,000
of Vogue magazines about and, 
you know, having that sensation 

625
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,760
of that kind of amazing smell, 
that gloss and that kind of 

626
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,640
world into another which was the
fashion world and an 

627
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,240
international world as well, 
which, you know, when I was very

628
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:44,240
little had not kind of been 
exposed to at that point. 

629
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,040
She also had, you know, a 
distinct kind of recalls and 

630
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,040
recollections of her, her lizard
high heel shoes or her most 

631
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,920
incredible, you know, jewellery 
boxes that were just, you know, 

632
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,840
spilling over with things that 
she collected over the years 

633
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,840
and, and mirrors that surrounded
that and. 

634
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,720
Yeah, both my grandmother and my
mother. 

635
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,080
Very inspiring women to be 
around who clearly had their own

636
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,040
sense of style, but a real 
interest in clothes as well. 

637
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,440
And my dad too, actually. 
And then what was the first 

638
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,000
moment that you put something on
that felt transformative to you?

639
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:30,240
Maybe less something I put on 
that I can think about. 

640
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:37,920
But certainly I do have memories
of going to school and you know,

641
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:43,080
it was a pretty conservative 
uniform and I did not feel 

642
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,880
comfortable in that. 
Knee high socks, knee high socks

643
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,920
that met my pleated Navy skirts 
and my, I can only describe them

644
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,680
as shoes that look like black 
pasties. 

645
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,400
They were very comfortable. 
They weren't very stylish 

646
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,800
anyway, and I'm sure my mum knew
this at some point, but I used 

647
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,480
to pack a separate bag which had
a very different outfit in it 

648
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,000
and lots of safety pins. 
So I would change my long socks 

649
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,240
to little ankle socks, little 
pop socks. 

650
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,720
I would take my pasty shoes off 
and put a new pair of shoes on, 

651
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:20,560
which had made the sound of like
a stiletto, but it wasn't. 

652
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,840
I would go into the toilets, 
roll my skirt up with an initial

653
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,760
size. 
I think a lot of women will be 

654
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,360
able to remember that process. 
And then I'd have safety pins 

655
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,600
that would tuck my shirt in very
tight. 

656
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,480
And then I'd change my tie. 
So it was either, depending on 

657
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,640
the season, the trend, it's 
either fat or it's very, very 

658
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,120
skinny. 
And then a little bit of makeup 

659
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,640
as well to boot. 
And you were allowed to do that 

660
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,160
at school. 
Well, we, I don't know if it 

661
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,280
wasn't necessarily laid, but I 
was. 

662
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,560
I was not challenged and that I 
think I was more challenged when

663
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,960
I left home, that I looked like 
that more than when I arrived at

664
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,200
school. 
And yes, we would have some 

665
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,880
challenges around. 
Turn your tie back around the 

666
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,440
right way, roll your skirt down.
And we would or I would, but 

667
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,280
then 10 minutes later it would 
go back up again. 

668
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,560
Yeah. 
Momentarily. 

669
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,160
And what was your light bulb 
moment in terms of fashion? 

670
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:18,480
I would say the grandmother I've
just described, but also my 

671
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:24,880
godmother being very influential
in how I felt about fashion, 

672
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,440
what I was, I guess, exposed to,
and then what that thought 

673
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,400
process meant in terms of what I
was going to do next in my life 

674
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,840
and my career and what I was 
really, really interested in. 

675
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:42,600
And the grandmother I described 
took me, I grew up in a very, 

676
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:47,320
very small town right next to 
the beach in the most western 

677
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,800
region of Wales that you can 
possibly kind of reach. 

678
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,920
And she took me up to London on 
many occasions. 

679
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,280
She took me to Paris. 
And as a result of that, I got 

680
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,200
kind of exposed to a lot of 
lovely shops because she loved 

681
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,760
to shop in lovely shops too. 
And then my godmother at the 

682
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,040
same time, kind of parallel to 
that, had studied fashion. 

683
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,360
She went to the Royal College, 
she did a masters in knitwear, 

684
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,840
and then she ended up being a 
buyer as well. 

685
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,080
So I had these kind of two 
sources of inspiration that 

686
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,200
really excited me. 
You know it. 

687
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,600
It got my heart beating and I 
quite quickly knew that it was. 

688
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,120
I had almost a calling. 
You're surrounded by so much 

689
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,960
fashion, I just wondered if you 
ever feel completely snow 

690
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:40,200
blinded by choice and what you 
want to put on. 

691
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,560
No. 
And I think that's got easier 

692
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,920
the older I've got. 
Being very, very clear about 

693
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,120
what works for me and what 
doesn't, what suits my body, 

694
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,280
what suits my attitude, where 
I'm going to get, you know, a 

695
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,840
level of confidence from and 
where I'm not. 

696
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,240
I do remember, you know, in my 
younger years sometimes 

697
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:11,000
deviating from that and A and a 
fashion trend being so 

698
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,840
appealing, you know, and I and I
loved looking at it and I loved 

699
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920
looking at it on other people. 
And I loved looked at looking at

700
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,040
it on the catwalks and how that 
kind of hit St. style and going 

701
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,800
and buying and trying to wear 
that myself and just thinking 24

702
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,640
hours later that was not a good 
decision. 

703
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,240
Whether that's the amount of 
money I've just spent on it or 

704
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,240
how it's made me feel. 
Which which was, you know, it's 

705
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,640
yeah, it's it's more intuitive 
now, I think. 

706
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:46,680
And I don't let fashion wear me.
What do you think inspires your 

707
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,720
style or does? 
Is that completely innate? 

708
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:57,080
It's mostly, I think, innate. 
I do have, you know, people I 

709
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:02,240
reference and people I love who 
are an inspiration from the way 

710
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,640
way they dress. 
Who would they be? 

711
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,800
I oh, this is a probably really 
obvious one that a lot of people

712
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,200
reference. 
Phoebe Philo, I think is 

713
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,680
gorgeous, effortless and she she
feels really confident and 

714
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,480
comfortable in her own skin. 
Someone a while ago that I used 

715
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,200
to reference a lot was very, 
very specific time, very 

716
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,680
specific thing, but it was Kim 
Basinger. 

717
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,040
Basinger. 
However you want to let when she

718
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:39,560
was in 9 1/2 weeks or who didn't
want to be her, live her life as

719
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,840
well as wear her clothes and 
that kind of, you know, 

720
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,160
nonchalance and just kind of 
effortless kind of thrown 

721
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:52,680
together style that was kind of 
cool, bordering on sexy, but not

722
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,880
too sexy, but, you know, very 
feminine, but not in an overt 

723
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,880
way. 
And so she was always someone 

724
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:05,080
that I just, you know, adored 
looking at and someone else. 

725
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,800
I kind of reference Emmanuel Alt
she again, she's got, I think 

726
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,920
I'm drawn to women who have or 
use a uniform. 

727
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,480
And she is, you know, when you 
see Emmanuel, oh, she'll 

728
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,880
probably be in a pair of jeans 
or a pair of black trousers. 

729
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,120
She will have a blazer and it's 
become her signature style. 

730
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,840
And she's, you know, synonymous 
with that. 

731
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:35,160
She she manages to with a few 
product types of, you know, 

732
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,920
still make it look new every 
single time. 

733
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,720
But yeah, she she's sensational.
Would you say you've got a 

734
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:48,240
signature style? 
I think it goes back to that it 

735
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:57,680
is relatively androgynous, it is
understated, minimalist, and I 

736
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,600
try to be as authentic as I 
possibly can. 

737
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,000
So would those 3 words be your 
style DNA? 

738
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,560
I think you say yes, Yeah, yes. 
Yeah, I I think they they. 

739
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,720
Come to to mind very quickly and
effortlessly. 

740
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Do you do you feel that you have
like a work uniform that you 

741
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,480
refer to again and again? 
Yes, yeah, I always start with 

742
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,920
my trousers. 
Do you? 

743
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,040
I do. 
And I, I, I, I don't plan my 

744
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,760
outfits but I do always start 
with my bottoms, whereas I think

745
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,760
a lot of women start with their 
top. 

746
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,400
I don't know why, but I have a 
bit of an obsession with 

747
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,760
trousers and denim, in fact. 
And actually I always felt that 

748
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,040
that, you know, in my design 
years, getting a trouser ABS or 

749
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,520
a gene absolutely right is the 
biggest science. 

750
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,040
It is beyond a skill. 
It's an absolute. 

751
00:47:55,040 --> 00:48:00,040
Science. 
It's it's, it's painstaking and 

752
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,640
it is, yeah, laboursome. 
But the end result, if you've 

753
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:11,760
really worked hard to understand
the female body and what works 

754
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,680
and what doesn't. 
And, and there's always a sense,

755
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,720
you know, when we're talking 
about developing products at 

756
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:22,320
Marks and Spencer's, that it's 
got to be flattering and it's 

757
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,760
got to have a sense of 
femininity about it. 

758
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,040
Even if it is a blazer, even if 
it is an oversized tracer, you 

759
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,040
know that there's a kind of 
slight kind of softness about it

760
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,600
as well. 
And you know, something that we 

761
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,000
consider. 
How many pairs of jeans do you 

762
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,280
own, Maddie? 
My goodness, I could probably 

763
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,280
fill a Wembley Stadium when I 
was at my peak. 

764
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,400
Yeah, but I recycle a lot now so
that there's a actually, my 

765
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,640
husband's quite fastidious when 
it comes to, you know, we can't 

766
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,840
open the doors or I can't get 
anything in. 

767
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,960
So there is a recycle moment 
where, you know, the bags are 

768
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,720
out. 
We go through or I go through 

769
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,960
and then there's a big trip down
to the charity shop. 

770
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:09,880
But do you ever sort of say no, 
because these are really useful 

771
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,400
references? 
Yes, Yeah, absolutely. 

772
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,040
There's probably, I won't say 
how many a lot that I don't 

773
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,760
wear, but are for kind of 
keepsakes and then for points of

774
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,960
reference because as we know 
those trends come round 

775
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,800
cyclical. 
It might be 5 years, it might be

776
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,440
10 years, it might be 20 years. 
But bet your dog boss and dollar

777
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,400
it will be back. 
And then I have my kind of OK 

778
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,080
this season. 
It feels like it's these 678 

779
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:40,680
maybe. 
But I do get into a bit of a 

780
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,880
habit of these are the fits that
are really working for me at the

781
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,680
moment. 
So then just having them in 

782
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,440
multiple washes? 
When you really need to feel 

783
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,680
empowered, when you've got a big
meeting, do you meet with 

784
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,600
Stuart, the CEO? 
I would imagine. 

785
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,280
What are you reaching for for 
those meetings? 

786
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,040
Yeah, it might be a bit of a 
giveaway, but I think it does 

787
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,840
start from kind of inside out, 
as it were. 

788
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,720
So I do think underwear is 
actually really important. 

789
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,840
And is it matching then? 
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes, 

790
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,120
yeah, it would. 
Of all the matching days, that 

791
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,960
might well be one of them. 
And you know, there is so. 

792
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,200
Yeah, there's so much choice in 
underwear now. 

793
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,520
And whether that's, you know, 
something that makes you feel 

794
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,680
really comfortable, whether 
that's something that holds you 

795
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,160
in in all the right places, or 
whether that's something that 

796
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,640
makes you feel kind of a more 
kind of relaxed and frivolous. 

797
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,800
And, you know, that's that's 
another occasion. 

798
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,840
But I think something that gives
you kind of structure and hold, 

799
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:47,480
I think just kind of gives you a
sense of security, I would say. 

800
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,680
And then a good pair of black 
trousers is always a good one. 

801
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,640
But I think actually think the 
secret weapon is a little heel 

802
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,320
because there is something 
around a sense of height for me 

803
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,480
personally, that again just 
gives me a little bit of edge 

804
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,640
and it doesn't have to be a 
high, high heel. 

805
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,400
I'm 5 foot 6. 
I always wanted to be 5 foot 8. 

806
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,880
The heel I wear probably gets me
to 5 foot 7, but that's just 

807
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,680
enough. 
Do you think you use clothes to 

808
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,800
message at all? 
Yeah, it is. 

809
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:24,080
It's, it's, I think different 
women will do use clothes in 

810
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,920
different ways to communicate. 
And I think even if it's not 

811
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,840
conscious, and I would say for 
me, it's more unconscious than 

812
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,360
conscious now in my life, in the
stage of my career. 

813
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,560
And you know that as as I 
mature. 

814
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,920
But there there are definitely 
occasions where you know, you 

815
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:48,080
want to reflect something or you
want to communicate something or

816
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,480
you want to be perceived as 
something. 

817
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,600
And I think they're the choices 
that we all make. 

818
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,120
Yeah. 
Are you always head to toe in 

819
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,760
M&S? 
Most of the time now, I'd say 

820
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:05,360
the majority of the time, yes. 
Is this is the collaboration 

821
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:11,040
with designers a sort of rolling
thing that you're, you know, is 

822
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,920
part of? 
Yeah. 

823
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:17,120
Part of the strategy, yeah, to 
when the partnerships feel right

824
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:22,400
and when they feel authentic, 
when we feel like they share our

825
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,360
values and our common goals as 
well. 

826
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,520
And that's exactly what Bella 
and Sienna, you know, it felt 

827
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,320
authentic, it felt real, and we 
felt like we're absolutely in it

828
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,920
together. 
So yes, there is certainly an 

829
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,600
appetite to do more and find the
right collaborators. 

830
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,680
But yeah, a, a few in the 
pipeline that will, yeah, be 

831
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,720
revealed very shortly. 
How exciting. 

832
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:52,240
I mean, you know, as we said, 
you're sort of working so far in

833
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:54,680
advance. 
Just coming back to your 

834
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,360
husband, does he have a view on 
what you wear? 

835
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:04,240
He only wants me to feel good. 
He he doesn't he he might 

836
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:08,760
comment on something that looks 
great or something that's new 

837
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,840
that he's not seen before, but 
always incredibly complimentary.

838
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:19,680
What did you wear to marry him? 
I had a dress made actually. 

839
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,320
God, I should know the name of 
the the lovely scene mistress 

840
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:25,520
who made it for me. 
She. 

841
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,200
She lived described it to me. 
Kilburn and I had to travel up 

842
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,080
there kind. 
Of did you design it? 

843
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,840
Yes, yes, yeah, it was. 
Oh my gosh. 

844
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,160
It was inspired by so many 
different people. 

845
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:41,000
It was like a mishmash of a 
Valentino and a Stella McCartney

846
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,360
and a Chloe. 
I actually ended up going buying

847
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,520
a pair of Chloe shoes because 
they were the right height as 

848
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,360
well. 
Not too tall, not too flat, but 

849
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:55,760
just enough. 
But it was, it was Saturn and 

850
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,560
Chiffon. 
It was just on the ankle. 

851
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:05,840
It was a bodice that was kind of
folded. 

852
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,640
And it actually actually did 
have a bodice inside it as well,

853
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,960
because I did want to feel held 
in and together in it. 

854
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,600
Exactly that. 
So it was. 

855
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:20,000
Yeah. 
It was beautifully constructed 

856
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,560
at the top. 
It had tiny, tiny little straps.

857
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,080
And then it had a lot of kind of
chill and organza in the skirt, 

858
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,440
but not floor dragging, you 
know, easy to wear. 

859
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,560
And I haven't got it out of the 
wardrobe for a very long time. 

860
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,480
Did you dance? 
But it is. 

861
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,760
I did dance in it. 
That was important. 

862
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:40,880
Yeah. 
Very, very important. 

863
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:44,800
Is age a consideration of how 
you dress? 

864
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:51,160
I, I probably not. 
I think if there's any 

865
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,200
consideration, it's maybe more 
If there's anything that might 

866
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,560
have changed or is changing, 
it's how I show up on holiday 

867
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:05,400
and I that is purely down to a 
costume or a bikini choice. 

868
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,480
And that's really as far as it 
goes. 

869
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,760
I think for me around when I 
think about my age and when I 

870
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,920
think about the clothes I choose
to wear, but that that's a kind 

871
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,800
of body consciousness that I 
didn't have so much, you know, 

872
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,760
in my youth That is just, you 
know, it's, it's on my mind more

873
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,760
so now. 
I mean, is staying in shape 

874
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,720
important? 
Yes, to you it is and I would 

875
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,640
say. 
With the job that you've got, 

876
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:35,960
you have a moment. 
Early morning run. 

877
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,560
I, it's as you know, it's, it's 
about my well-being as well as 

878
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:46,000
it is my physical, you know, and
if I can start my day clearing 

879
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,960
my head with a run and being up 
before anybody, that's what I 

880
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,200
really, really enjoy. 
You know, running on the streets

881
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,640
and only seeing the kind of 
milkman and the kind of early 

882
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,760
commuters or the dog walkers 
actually, or the runners and 

883
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,840
that moment when the sun's just 
coming up that you have to 

884
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,720
yourself. 
But also it's a brilliant way to

885
00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:12,160
listen to podcasts and to catch 
up and, you know, current 

886
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,960
affairs or other. 
Yes, it is important to me. 

887
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:21,560
What's your view on hair make 
up, manicures, all of the all of

888
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,200
the maintenance side of things? 
Well, that's what I would say 

889
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,080
actually. 
It's probably less consideration

890
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:32,560
around clothes from an age 
perspective, more consideration 

891
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:38,920
around beauty. 
And I do like a manicure and I 

892
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,720
think that's where my probably 
my time and effort is spent. 

893
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:46,720
But I probably need to spend 
more time and effort on my 

894
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:51,040
beauty regime because I 
absolutely horrified 2 of my 

895
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:56,360
best friends that I was out with
on when was I Saturday night by 

896
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,320
sharing what that beauty regime 
was. 

897
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,800
And I wouldn't like to embarrass
myself now by sharing that with 

898
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,520
you. 
The endless. 

899
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,360
Yeah, yeah. 
And, and those guys do spend a 

900
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,720
lot of time and a fair amount of
money on it. 

901
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:12,200
They look sensational. 
So there's something to be 

902
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,880
learnt there, I think. 
Yes. 

903
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,080
But then there's, well, would I 
rather have 15 extra minutes of 

904
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:17,960
sleep? 
Yes. 

905
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,240
So choices, yeah. 
Choices, choices, yeah. 

906
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,000
You're phenomenally busy. 
Is your wardrobe beautifully 

907
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,640
organised? 
I wish it was more so because if

908
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:37,840
I actually dedicated some real 
time to getting it into a kind 

909
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,000
of category by category shape so
that I knew all my jeans are in 

910
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,440
the same place, all my T-shirts 
were, etcetera, etcetera. 

911
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,000
I would like make my life a hell
of a lot easier. 

912
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,840
So I do find myself running 
around in the mornings trying to

913
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,440
kind of build that outfit, 
whereas actually if I got on top

914
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:02,440
of it, it would be good. 
I often feel that we become a 

915
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:08,360
slightly different person on 
holiday or stylistically close. 

916
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,880
Amy yes. 
So what is holiday you? 

917
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,440
As you would imagine, a minimal 
approach, so great linen 

918
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,720
underpinners, investing a little
bit more in those kind of 

919
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,720
basics, your vests and your 
T-shirts. 

920
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,640
I think that's probably an age 
kind of reflection point where 

921
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,480
something that's a little bit 
holy or a little bit kind of 

922
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,360
Shearer is less of a 
consideration now. 

923
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,080
Something that's a bit more 
structured and a little bit 

924
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:44,400
heavier feels certainly gives, 
gives me, makes me feel better 

925
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,200
about myself. 
So still minimalist investing in

926
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:53,840
basics, certainly a linen 
capsule wardrobe and then really

927
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,200
thinking about the the kind of 
sandal choices as well. 

928
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,600
I think it's important and 
having lots of those packed 

929
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,120
because that can kind of trend 
that that and a bag can 

930
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,920
transform. 
Your outfit a good Packer or a 

931
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,760
bad Packer? 
I think about it, it's a 

932
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,240
consideration. 
More often than not, I probably 

933
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:13,800
wear half the clothes that I've 
bought. 

934
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,640
And what is your luggage of 
choice? 

935
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:25,480
It's it's a wheelie and again, 
it's probably bigger than I need

936
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:32,960
and I can't even remember the 
brand that I last bought, but I 

937
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,600
can get back to you on that one.
Not, not a problem. 

938
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,200
Would you say you've had a worst
fashion moment? 

939
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,840
Not anything specific. 
Guilty Secret What would you say

940
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,600
is the most expensive item in 
your wardrobe? 

941
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,000
A. 
Few things come to mind that are

942
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:58,520
my go to's, which is I've got a 
beautiful Joseph coat, 

943
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:04,200
incredibly tailored. 
It's double breasted, it's very 

944
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:09,080
slim, but for me it's and, and 
it's very, because I'm, I'm more

945
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,400
petite, I would say it just hits
my shoulders in the right places

946
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,280
and it gives me a structure that
makes me feel great. 

947
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,080
And I've had it for about 8 
years now and it's, and it's 

948
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,120
still as beautiful as the day I 
bought it. 

949
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,480
And it hasn't dated either as 
well. 

950
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,560
You know, it's, it's a, a true 
modern classic and it's, you 

951
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,600
know, highly engineered. 
I do have a pair of saline 

952
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,360
trousers, but I can't fit into 
them anymore. 

953
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,720
But I didn't pass them on 
because they are just, you know,

954
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,040
I've got a strong attachment to 
them. 

955
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,160
And I remember parting with that
money. 

956
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,560
But I got a huge amount of wear 
out of them. 

957
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,800
They were worth every single 
penny and they still look 

958
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,280
beautiful in my wardrobe. 
And the only other thing is a 

959
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,920
slingback pair of Chanel shoes, 
you know, the toe cap ones which

960
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:01,760
I laboured over, you know, do I 
don't? 

961
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,920
I do I don't I, But again, I 
knew it was the type of shoe 

962
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:10,160
that you could dress up, dress 
in, hugely versatile, won't date

963
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,480
and it hasn't. 
You can bring it out again and 

964
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,000
again. 
The designer handbags now have 

965
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:21,000
reached a new high in terms of 
price and what's your view on 

966
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,320
that? 
Yeah. 

967
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:29,720
I mean, it's, it's, it's for the
elite essentially Now it's, I 

968
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:35,680
remember even, you know, in my 
30s, you know, always kind of 

969
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:39,320
coveting a designer bag. 
It was, you know, you know, one 

970
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,120
day, one day I'll be there. 
One day I'll make it. 

971
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,040
I'll have reached a certain 
level. 

972
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:45,520
I'll be able to buy a designer 
bag. 

973
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,960
And that was an achievable goal 
back then. 

974
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,720
What's your personal approach to
sustainable fashion? 

975
01:01:53,240 --> 01:02:00,080
I think it's back to that 
recycle, reuse and spending on 

976
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,600
investment pieces is, is just my
kind of go to. 

977
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:07,200
So it's less in the kind of 
frivolous, it's less in the 

978
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,920
fast, it's less I, I make 
choices around the brands that I

979
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,080
shop with. 
And certainly, you know, 

980
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,320
obviously spending with M and SI
know that it's, you know, come 

981
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,800
from the right source, you know,
it's been loved through the 

982
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:28,600
process, but then, you know, 
just looking to other businesses

983
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:33,280
and, and also actually I've 
started, I think it's called 1 

984
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,280
scoop. 
I might be wrong on that. 

985
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,120
There's a new vintage shop 
that's just kind of popped up in

986
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,040
my neck of the woods. 
I mean there's plenty of them, 

987
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:45,600
but this one specifically is 
just really brilliantly curated 

988
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:53,360
and the quality of the second 
hand roducts in there is really,

989
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,240
really brilliant. 
I don't know where they source 

990
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:59,000
from, but she's doing a 
fantastic job and what I keep 

991
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,680
finding in there at the moment 
is Old Saint Michael. 

992
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,280
Product so. 
Marks and Spencer's from right 

993
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,320
back in the day, of which I've 
bought a few, not just for 

994
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,400
myself but to bring it back into
the teams as well to say a look 

995
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,640
how long this has lasted and 
look how brilliant it still is. 

996
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,280
And actually can we take 
inspiration from that as well? 

997
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,640
We have a fantastic archive back
in, back up in Leeds. 

998
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:24,640
Do you? 
Yeah. 

999
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,880
Where they, they keep and 
collect an awful lot of the kind

1000
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:33,520
of, you know, the best of M&S 
product and going up there, 

1001
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,400
particularly for the design 
teams. 

1002
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,280
And actually we take some of our
partners who we collaborate with

1003
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,440
up there as well. 
It's an incredible source of 

1004
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,200
inspiration. 
So yeah, charity shopping for 

1005
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,680
me, second hand shopping is, is 
important as part of that 

1006
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,920
consciousness as well. 
What do you do with your clothes

1007
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,640
when you've had enough of them? 
It goes to charity, does it? 

1008
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,160
Yep. 
What is the oldest piece in your

1009
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,400
wardrobe? 
The thing that comes to mind is 

1010
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,680
actually my dad's. 
Yeah. 

1011
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,280
So there is a definitely a 
nostalgia there and it's a 

1012
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,560
sentimental piece for me and 
it's actually has got a few 

1013
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,200
holes in it now. 
It must be 50 years old. 

1014
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,080
What is it? 
It's you may remember this, 

1015
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,360
maybe some of the listeners 
won't, but as a reference point,

1016
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:24,560
Starsky and Hatch, there was one
of the guys who used to wear 

1017
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,680
this zip through kind of it 
looks kind of Canadian. 

1018
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:29,600
It might even be Scandinavian or
Canadian. 

1019
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,800
I can't remember where he got it
from because I know he had 

1020
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,440
friends in Canada and 
Scandinavia and I'm sure it was 

1021
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:40,040
through that process. 
Anyway, it's so heavy, it's wool

1022
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,360
that it feels like you're almost
wearing a sheep. 

1023
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,360
I always take it somewhere, you 
know, whether it's a festival or

1024
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,160
camping. 
Camping because it is beyond 

1025
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,560
worn. 
You know, on a freezing day, you

1026
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:56,520
are boiling in it and knitted, 
knitted very heavy knit zip up 

1027
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:01,160
kind of big collar cream base. 
That's kind of yellowing now, 

1028
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,200
unfortunately. 
But that shows there's, you 

1029
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:08,000
know, supernatural fibres. 
There was nothing kind of that 

1030
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,520
it went through in terms of a 
process and it's got a black 

1031
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,000
kind of, you know, Aztec knit 
into. 

1032
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,720
It and you've kept the moths 
away from it. 

1033
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,400
Well, it has got holes. 
I don't think it was the moths 

1034
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,760
actually. 
I think it's just literally wear

1035
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,040
and tear. 
Yep. 

1036
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,000
And does it take you closer to 
your? 

1037
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,680
Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
It's it's got a, it's got a kind

1038
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:34,320
of smell as well, but in a nice 
way, not in an old fashioned 

1039
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,560
way, just to kind of that's, 
that's, that's another kind of 

1040
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,280
connection through. 
I don't know if you remember 

1041
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,440
this as a child, but you know, 
when people gave you clothes, it

1042
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,600
smells of them. 
Anyway, this jumper smells of my

1043
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,000
dad. 
We're going to spin on some 

1044
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,600
quick fire questions, fashion 
advice you'd give your 20 year 

1045
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,240
old self. 
I'd say experiment more. 

1046
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,320
Fashion trend you'd most like to
see make a comeback or. 

1047
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,680
Era I have I have a kind of soft
spot for the 90s. 

1048
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:07,160
I wouldn't ever wear it now, but
I love seeing kind of the youth.

1049
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,920
Fashion or beauty trend that you
would consign to Room 101. 

1050
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,760
I'm, I'm thinking it's actually 
probably more male, but the 

1051
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,280
mullet wasn't a good look I 
don't think for anybody. 

1052
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,640
That's a good one, your last 
impulse buy. 

1053
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:27,440
It was actually a lip plump and 
it's something that we just 

1054
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,320
launched in the business. 
I haven't used it yet, so let's 

1055
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,040
see. 
Your views on tattoos? 

1056
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,560
OH. 
I've been so close to getting 1 

1057
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,320
so many times to the point that 
I've lain down in a tattoo 

1058
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,600
parlour and the and the needles 
been there. 

1059
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:48,120
And for some reason or another 
I've pulled out because I just 

1060
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:53,040
think of myself when I'm 85 year
old, years old, not in bikini, 

1061
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,800
but in a swimsuit and what 
that's going to look like. 

1062
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,800
And I know and I've seen how 
addictive it can be. 

1063
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:00,160
And I think it doesn't stop at 
1:00. 

1064
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,760
Yeah. 
But I love them on other people.

1065
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,200
Absolutely love them. 
Beauty treatment you couldn't 

1066
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,120
give up manicure, high end or 
High Street. 

1067
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:15,760
Can I choose both? 
Yes, bling or bear. 

1068
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,240
Bear Minimalism or maximalism. 
Minimalism. 

1069
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:24,960
Frocks, cute or puke faces. 
Saying it all, Maddie. 

1070
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,520
Good on kids. 
Sneakers or stilettos? 

1071
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:33,520
Oh, neither. 
Skinnies, boyfriends or wide 

1072
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,280
legs? 
Straight. 

1073
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,280
Body con or boho? 
Neither. 

1074
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:46,080
Sports Lux or Rock chick? 
Both at different times during 

1075
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,200
my life. 
Red carpet or relax. 

1076
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,400
Relax. 
Beanie or Berry beanie? 

1077
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,960
Trendle style, style, colour or 
monochrome? 

1078
01:07:54,960 --> 01:08:01,960
Monochrome, experimental or UU. 
Cashmere or cotton cashmere. 

1079
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,120
Shapewear or sexy lingerie? 
Depends. 

1080
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:11,480
Tights, stockings or hold UPS. 
Tights, bikini or one piece? 

1081
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,279
Transitioning. 
And finally, my traditional last

1082
01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:18,359
question. 
At the end of the day, what do 

1083
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:26,520
you or don't you wear in bed? 
Pyjamas. 

1084
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,319
M&S Pyjamas. 
I've got a mix. 

1085
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,359
Maddie, I honestly could have 
talked to you all day. 

1086
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,240
There's a million questions I 
haven't asked you, but thank you

1087
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,080
so much. 
You've been an amazing guest. 

1088
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,520
Thank you. 
Thanks so much for having me. 

1089
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:41,680
It's. 
Great fun.