You're peer-to-peer, am I correct?
You can literally now rent from, you know, a stylish woman that
you follow on Instagram or TikTok or YouTube or whatever.
And that's really the premise of my rotation.
So we launched 5 months before COVID happened and there's no
reason to rent clothes. So we basically had no demand on
the app instead of. Oh.
She takes a deep breath. My mom dressed us a lot, though,
when we were young. And I look at our photos, you
know, you know, the film photos, obviously.
And I was like, Oh my God, we were very chic.
Did you have a sort of finance work uniform?
Yeah, yeah. And what did that look like?
It's so funny because I was actually teased a lot by by the
guys on the on the floor for it. I just feel like fashion doesn't
really. I think luxury, expensive
fashion, it no longer impresses me.
Today, I'm going on a style journey with the founder and CEO
of the clothing rental app by rotation, the Extraordinary
Ishita Cabra Davis. Hello and welcome, Ashita.
How lovely to see you. Thank you so much Amanda for
having me. It's a pleasure, I mean we've
never met before, but I'm so hugely impressed by the business
you've built. You came into it from the
investment world. What inspired you to start by
Rotation? It's simple and it's very much a
first world problem that I was facing, which a lot of us face
in the United Kingdom, what to wear when I'm going on a trip on
a holiday. And this was my honeymoon, so a
trip of a lifetime. And I started thinking about all
the different cities we were going to in Rajasthan and India,
where I was born, also my motherland, right?
And I was thinking about how I want it to match all my outfits
to all these incredible places I'd go visit in the desert.
And that's when I started thinking how cool would it be if
I could borrow clothes, rent clothes for the strip of a
lifetime? And then when I started doing
some research as to what the options were in the UK and even
globally, it became obvious to me that all the clothing rental
businesses were either, you know, High Street stores where
you could rent things like suits and ball gowns, or they were
inventory based businesses that have massive warehouses in the
US, in China, in Singapore and India.
But none of them really had this business model where I could
just reach out to a very fashionable, stylish woman on
Instagram who would post her outfit of the day photos and be
like, hey, can I rent your dress and give it back to you in a
week's time? So that's when I started
thinking about the idea. And then I went on my honeymoon
in February 2019, and I couldn't help but notice the huge amount
of textile waste that I was seeing in, you know, in a
suburban hometown where I was from in Rajasthan.
And that's when I felt very much like maybe there's a bigger,
wider problem here besides me wanting to wear new clothes,
nice clothes, designer clothes for my holiday.
Maybe there's a massive problem of waste in the fashion
industry. And when I started looking up,
you know, metrics and stats around things like how much how
much clothing goes to landfills, you know, fashion industry being
the second most polluting industry in the world.
And then, you know, thinking about my own consumption
practices and habits as a shopaholic who grew up in
Singapore, you know, it became very clear to me that the way
that people consume fashion is linear.
You know, we, we produce, then we buy, we maybe wear, I don't
know, five times, and then we end up donating or just throwing
away worse. And all of these end up in
landfills of Asian and African countries.
And that's when I was like this idea that I have for renting
clothes and borrowing outfits. Why don't we do that from each
other? Just as we've seen other sharing
economies such as Airbnb and Uber.
And instead of being like the traditional rental clothing.
Yeah, with the warehouses. With the warehouses, you're
peer-to-peer, am I correct? Yeah, so you can literally now
rent from, you know, a stylish woman that you follow on
Instagram or TikTok or YouTube or whatever.
And that's really the premise of By Rotation.
You know, we've been likened as the Airbnb of design and
fashion. Like Airbnb, there's a huge
level of trust within your Yeah by rotation community.
So if you look at the By Rotation app, it's been designed
like a social network, kind of looks like Instagram, but with
the booking feature. So people end up messaging each
other. So on a listing, you'll see
their own description, you'll see reviews left by other people
who rented it in the past. You can also rate and review
whether it was true to two to size or if it was a lot larger
or smaller. And yeah, I think that's how
we've kind of built trust and confidence within the community
itself. And then when it comes to things
like security, you know, how do you know if you're renting from
a real person or how do I know that I'm lending to someone who
I can trust? We've got ID verification, phone
number, you know, credit card holds.
We kind of, you know, it's, it's, it's almost easier to to
steal from someone in the street rather than on the by rotation
app because we have, you know, all this digital information,
this footprint on you. So it's been very, very gamified
as well because you unlock different items as you build up
your reputation on the app. So if you look at the app and
you download the app, you know we've built the world's largest
shared wardrobe in less than six years.
There's over. That is extraordinary.
Thank you. Would you put any of that down
to the fact that you were building that inventory,
inventory in inverted commerce during COVID?
Yeah. So we launched 5 months before
COVID happened and there's no reason to rent clothes.
So we basically had no demand on the app instead of.
Oh. She takes deep breath.
Exactly. And you know, I had just given
up my career in finance, you know, my seven-year long career
working in the industry for no paycheck.
And that's when I was like, well I can't go back to my ex boss
and beg for a job back. What I can do during this time
is educate people on fashion rental and peer-to-peer in
particular and use that awareness and education.
Since we have a captive audience because everyone was online and
baking banana bread, we can use this captive audience to educate
them and hopefully convert them to start listing their wardrobes
on the app. During the lockdown, you know,
you had a lot of people marry condoing and clearing out their
closets and things like that. So it's actually, it was a good
use of time for us during COVID lockdown because everyone was
like, I think this makes sense and it's a free to use app.
I have nothing to lose. So you can see, you know,
there's like a huge range of items from contemporary to ultra
designer and then to completely rare.
You know, there, there are Chanel bags, there are Birkins
on there. There's like vintage Ralph
Lauren from 1994 that Blair Waldorf wore on the Gossip Girl
episode. But you have to be.
Unlock. Unlock and So how do you unlock?
By being a good hunter. Yeah, exactly.
You almost have to, you know, I don't want to say kiss a few
frogs because you're still renting beautiful items such as
like Gunny dresses and Rixo dresses and things like that.
But you gather enough ratings and reviews, and that helps you
unlock the Chanel bag and then eventually the Hermes bags.
And that's how we've made our community really invested in how
they use the bio rotation app. You know, they're very engaged.
And their profiles are, Yeah, their profiles are like,
beautiful CVS that they've essentially, like, you know,
spent a lot of time cultivating. And then so how do you, how do
you suggest people price their items?
Because that must be a science in itself, isn't it?
We base it off the retail value, but obviously if you think do.
You do the pricing or does the we suggest it right?
Kind of like Airbnb, we suggest it, but if you think, no, this
is a really rare sold out, you know, Vivian Westwood dress that
is no longer made and it's a collector's item and I'm willing
to rent it out for the weekend or week, then you could always
price it very high and equally. So there's a lot of these
dresses then. And if you just want to get
rentals, you can price it below and undercut everyone.
So the market, you know, the laws of a marketplace, demand
and supply definitely prevail. Kind of brings me back to my
background working in finance. But how do you know?
On bags, for example? Yeah, that they are the
authentic thing. We don't, and that's the only
thing. So if you received and bagged
and you were like this is not authentic or I'm not sure it is,
we would ask the lender. And ideally they would already
have ratings and reviews that confirm other people have vetted
them and rented from them and are happy with them.
Yeah. But if you have any doubts, we
would give you a full refund and for them it would be a waste of
time. Yeah, it's actually a new way to
look at fashion all together because people now when they go
shopping, they think, oh, I'm not going to buy all these High
Street clothes anymore. I'm just going to invest in the
designer item itself because I can spread the cost by renting
it out to others and I can also own it for myself and then
eventually resell it. Yeah.
I mean it must in a way be hurting the designer occasion
market. Do you, have you been approached
by any brands who work in that area to sort of, you know, work
with them instead of just peer-to-peer?
Yeah, we have quite a few brand profiles on the app and actually
quite a few British ones, which we're really excited by.
You know, we've got Lulu, Guinness, we've got Roxanda.
We've recently been working with a more contemporary Karen Millen
as well. It's been kind of interesting
seeing like British home grown brands who want to ensure that
they are making their price point more affordable to people
who may not be sure about purchasing the item upfront.
Do you have a a sort of base level RR recommended retail
price that you have to that you will only take from that level
on? So it's £75 and above, which
isn't that much. Yeah.
I mean, if you look at High Street fashion as well, a lot of
it has gone up in price. It's, you know, and then
obviously on the other side you've got ultra fast, fast
fashion giants, which we definitely do not allow on the
platform at all. Yeah, where are you on the AI
journey? In the AI side of things, we are
actually experimenting at the moment and and all the admins on
the app have it for a reverse image search.
So essentially if you uploaded, I don't know, you know, an
outfit that you've dressed Princess Diana in and we're
looking for something similar, you could find it by uploading
that image and then it'll show you all the various listings
there on the by rotation app to recreate that look.
So what next for by rotation? So we're expanding in the Middle
East, which is super exciting. Exciting.
Yeah, there's, there's, I mean, maybe a few years ago and just
after COVID, I would have said it's not the right place for us
just because if you look at the local culture, I think the way
they look at second hand, it's not quite there yet.
The same is said in Asia as well.
We have how we've seen an influx of expats in the UAE and in
Dubai in particular. And a lot of them are actually
from the UK and from Ireland and also Europe.
And they are customers of our rotation, you know, or, or they
want to be and they've heard of it and they're like, when are
you guys coming here? Because we dress up a lot and
there's definitely like a larger than what your life actually is
mindset and mentality there, which, you know, perhaps could
could, you know, make way for our early adopters.
Yeah. And do you, do you feel
culturally that the the local community in the Middle East is
going to eventually adopt this way of thinking or do you think
that's going to be a steeper mountain to climb?
I think that will be a steeper mountain to climb than in
comparison to the UK. What we've experienced here, you
know, we always thought we would get so much pushback that we'd
be completely iced out by the fashion industry and by, you
know, people who are a bit more of the ownership mentality here.
But actually, I think the Brits care a lot about sustainability.
You see the media talking about it every single day, not just,
you know, in lifestyle publications, but also in
broadsheet, you know, as a point of news.
So I think in the UK we found it to we've really been embraced, I
think by, you know, most people understand why by rotation makes
sense. I think in the UAE there's a big
stigma around second hand and I think that's, you know, from
culture and from religion. Like, you know, even in Chinese
and Indian culture, you know, on on special occasions, you're
expected to wear new clothes. And by new they mean completely
new on worn clothes. So I think it'll be it'll be a
harder mountain to climb when it comes to the locals.
I do think, however, there might be some ways around it, such as,
you know, I mean things like having access to a very rare
vintage item or like a rare handbag that might be enticing
to them. You know, that might be a way
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We're going on a style journey and it's your style journey.
So how did you decide what you were putting on?
So I wanted to wear, I love high waisted denim and I'm wearing
that right now. I think it makes me look taller
because I'm not that tall. But there's this I think I
mentioned trick a lot of people through my photos because of my
body proportions and through very high heels.
I'm wearing high waisted denim by who?
By DL1961 denim. They are actually a circular
denim company, which for me is just it's hard to do denim in a
sustainable way and I think. It's very hard and so how are
they doing it? It's all through off cuts from
what I understand and then I'm wearing a Cena Goya blazer.
It's a velvet one, which I think is it's kind of great for
autumn, winter. Gorgeous.
Thank you. And I had bought it in in Norway
right after we got married to see one of my best friends.
And yeah, it kind of reminds me of that trip, you know, recently
married, having a cute little time looking at the screen in
the in the National National Gallery in Oslo.
And it's actually a great jacket to wear.
I've interviewed live at on Bloomberg TV in this as well.
It's just one of those it makes you look professional but also
fashionable. And very luxy.
Yes, exactly. It's like a smoking jacket.
Gorgeous. So you grew up between India,
Singapore and the UK, am I right?
So where did you go to school in that lot?
So I I was born in India, in Rajasthan and then I.
Where? In Rajasthan.
It's to actually where I was born.
It's not where people from abroad would go to, it's not a
tourist friendly place. It's where we actually live.
It's called Pilvara and it's known for its textiles, men's
suitings in particular. So less on the women's side.
But you know, I think fashion and textiles and textile mills,
it's something that I probably subconsciously grew up with
because my late uncle used to have a textile mill he ran.
But I moved to Singapore at the age of 2 1/2 because my parents
were in the marble and granite construction business.
And there was a huge housing boom in Singapore back then for
malls, for condominiums, you know, you name it, there was
Indian, Italian and Chinese marble and granite there.
So yeah, that, you know, I grew up in Singapore since the age of
2 1/2. And then I moved to the UK for
university. So I'd say I grew up in
Singapore, but I really became the person that I am in London.
And were you wearing a school uniform in Singapore?
Yeah, yeah, it's, I would say Singapore is very similar to the
UK. You know, it's Commonwealth at
the end of the day. And yeah, we had this like,
well, I, I went to a few different schools, obviously,
but we had like this tartan little skirt and like a blouse
and I, I just love that tartan skirt so much.
Do you still very British? Do you still love tartan as a
result? Interesting.
Were you very aware of your parents style?
My mom had great style, especially we were very, very
young. When I look at the photos then I
think when she got a bit older, I think she she sort of, it
feels like she didn't care so much about fashion.
I think we were the ones who were probably more, you know,
interested in teenage fashion. When was your first memory of
clothes making you feel different?
My mom apparently says, and I think there's a photo to prove
it, that I went into a store when I was about 6 years old and
I asked the the shop the the salesperson to show me all the
pink dresses they had. The pink dresses.
The paint dresses, I want it to look like a Princess, I
insisted. And then I just walked out with
one. Do you remember putting it on?
No, no, I just said I want this. And then I held it and I looked
it up and I think my mum wasn't even in the store.
She was in the store next door. I was like, OK, I'm taking it,
my mum will, my mum will deal with it.
And I just left my. Mum would deal with it.
Yeah, would. Was it putting that dress on
when you got it home that you thought?
I'm a no, I didn't get to keep it.
I was like, oh, OK, I don't get to be a Princess.
And I think, I think maybe that's why growing up I was kind
of like. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm not really
sure yet of my style and my personality.
My mom dressed us a lot though, when we were young.
And I look at our photos, you know, you know, the film photos,
obviously. And I was like, Oh my God, we
were very chic. My mom had really good taste.
She was newly moved to Singapore.
She was a young mother, as you would be back in the day in
India. And, and, you know, she was
getting her taste of dressing in Western clothing too.
And that's when, you know, people like Princess Diana would
have such a big influence in in Asian culture and you'd see all
these amazing sort of silk and chiffon blouses that she had
bought for herself. And there would be like a silk
chiffon white blouse with a matching trousers, really long
trousers with like a like a vest jacket on it as well.
And then for us, she would buy like these leopard print, like
cohort, like skirt and, and top. And I was like, yeah.
And I was like, this is so chic. And we all had like chic Bob
haircuts. I think at one point I had like
a little fake Chanel bag because you know, it, it well, I, I
don't think it was like it didn't have the CNC logo on it,
but I think it was meant to look like a Chanel bag.
And I, I was just like, my mom is very, I look back at those,
those photos and I was like, my mom was very stylish and she
wanted to dress as stylish, not, not like a basic, you're a girl,
you need to wear pink dresses all the time and fall floral
frocks and things like that. And then you came to the UK for
uni, yes. And do you think you'd really
sort of found your fashion mojo then?
So when, when did that all start?
So. The thing is, growing up in
Singapore, we didn't have seasons, yeah.
So I didn't even know how to style boots and tights.
How? Cold and wet and miserable it
can get. Yeah, yeah.
And, and the fact that it changes.
So actually you don't wear some things like you're meant to wear
a denim jacket right now. That's not something I would
know. I thought you just own a coat
and that's it. Like, I wouldn't have thought
you own a what's the point of a leather jacket?
When are you supposed to wear it?
I I didn't know that. You know, I grew up in Singapore
where it's 30°. It's hot, humid, so sometimes it
rains. So, you know, you just wear
shorts, you have an umbrella or you wear anything loose.
So I found that quite and I had to navigate it myself.
You know, I didn't go to fashion school or anything, you know,
studying business management at CASP Business School.
No one was that super interested in fashion.
Everyone was very chic though. They would all have, you know,
that cute little Prada Balenciaga bags on the first day
of uni. And I was like, OK, these people
are cool. They know they're fashion, but
they're very, you know, they're, they're just dressed very
effortlessly. It was a very, I'd say European
heavy school. And that's when I was like, I
need to figure out how to dress according to season.
That's the most important thing. I don't need to figure out how
to dress in different cool outfits and, you know, mix and
match colours and patterns. I just need to get the basics
because I don't even know the basics.
And where did you go to get the basics?
Do you remember? I think when I was a student, I
was shopping at places like costs and other stories, you
know, whatever you have on your budget again in Singapore and I
think to date, you know, these brands are considered to be more
expensive than the local fast fashion brands.
So I think things like Zara in Singapore dollars address at
Zara right now is probably $250. So it's not considered cheap
though? Essentially, yeah.
And then you went into finance, Yeah.
Did you have a sort of finance work uniform?
Yeah, yeah. And what did that look like?
It's so funny because I was actually teased a lot by by the
guys on the on the floor for it, then eventually bullied by a
woman for it. Please don't tell me that.
Yeah, it's, it's funny because it's true.
I mean, it's, it's true to a certain extent.
You know, I did, I, I was very, you know, part of the reason why
I wanted to work in finance after doing 3 internships there
during my university years was that I really liked how serious,
you know, the, the atmosphere was.
I loved meeting all these brilliant minds and they dressed
sharp and I really liked that. And I think, you know, I grew up
in Singapore, which is a very formal sort of, you know,
society, I would say, like respect, manners and things like
that. A little bit conservative.
Yeah, definitely. Like, like cleavage would be
considered, you know, overt exactly, exactly like you're
trying to say something about yourself.
Whereas here no one cares, no one really gives another look.
And that's what I was like. I think this is the industry I
really like. Everything is taking all my
boxes. I can, I can probably carry a
designer bag here without being judged, you know, so, and that's
a shopaholic Singaporean in me. So when I started working, I
remember as a treat, I bought myself a pair of Louboutins, you
know, with the red sole stiletto.
And, and it's funny because a lot of the guys on the floor
and, and I, I was in a team of 40 men and three of us were
women and two of them were in London and I was the only one in
Edinburgh where I started off my career.
And, but they didn't, they were just teasing me in like a funny
way. They're like, aren't those,
those really like Devil Wears Prada type shoes?
And I was like, yeah, they're called Louis Vuitton's.
And they're like, I'm sorry, you know, and these, these, these
are like old Scottish guys. And then they were like, So what
bag are you carrying? What should I buy my wife for
Christmas? And I was like, oh, it's a
Balenciaga. And they're like, what is this?
What is a Balenciaga, You know, And it was really funny because
the guys thought it was amusing that I was this girl who was,
you know, this Asian girl who, you know, studied in London and
now moved to Edinburgh for her job.
And she was, you know, she had personality when she dressed.
And it's funny because I actually ended up being bullied
by an older woman in the London team when she was once visiting.
And she said, don't you want to be known for your work, not the
way that you're dressed. You should just create a uniform
for yourself at work and wear like a grey pantsuit.
And I remember crying and I was like, yeah, it, it was quite
because she singled me out and she brought me a way to
essentially tell me all these things about how, you know, I
should let my work do the talking and not my style.
Like, I don't need to bring my personality to work this, you
know, just do the work and that's it.
But yeah, I, I guess it's, it's maybe like one of the reasons
why I might have found a by rotation because it is about
bringing your full self yes to your work, to your everyday.
And did you change your style? No, it's funny.
Because I went back to my office, I went back to my desk
and my boss, old Scottish guy, really nice, tough love.
He obviously knew. He could see from my eyes that
I've been crying. And he was like, what happened?
Who, who did you meet? And then I said, oh, this person
asked me to meet them. He's like, what happened?
Did they say something to you? And he was the one who was like,
ignore everything she said. I'm going to raise a complaint
about this and you can wear whatever you want.
Good boy. He was, he was just like, we
never cared about this. We actually thought it was
interesting that you didn't want to make this a stuffy place and
bring your entire personality. And it's funny because working
on the investment floor and investment team, the whole point
of hiring people that come from different backgrounds is that
they bring different investment perspectives as well.
Totally. It breaks group think and herd
mentality. And that can happen when you're
a group of 39 Scottish old white males.
You know, they wanted this, they celebrated it.
And she was telling me to to have a great pantsuit uniform.
How sad. I yeah, I I don't even want to
go there. But I do love dressing corporate
and I still dress like that on my board meeting days.
OK. So I wanted to ask you on the
board meeting days or actually more specifically on fundraising
days, Yeah. What do you reach for to wear?
Oh God no fundraising different. I did 17 calls in a day.
So, so I was and I was clearly in a hoodie, probably not
showered and the people on the call knew that, but I was quite
I mean, it's. Gotten to a point, but it wasn't
a video call. It was a video call.
Right. But I had gotten to a point
where was I? And I think that's one of the
things I've felt now that I'm six years in.
And I'm sure you must have felt this along the way.
You get more comfortable in yourself and you know your
story. And if people haven't done their
background research on you, then they shouldn't really be here.
I remember in the first few years of founding by rotation
and our brown colors are green and pink.
I always wore loud green or pink dresses to, you know, to ensure
that by rotation. Like someone asked me where was
your dress from? And I'd say by rotation or to
ensure that by rotation had some kind of presence at an event or
in my headshot photos or if we were in the newspaper, you know,
your eyes would draw to it. But now I'm, I rarely dress in
green and pink. I'm like, that's my business.
I think my business has done all the talking.
I think you already kind of know probably what we've achieved so
far. The focus now is on my words.
Yeah. So let's keep it there.
And and I think I don't know, with the when I did the 17 calls
within a day, it was very structured.
You know, it was like, you have this much time, ask me all the
questions. Hopefully you came here with all
the research and you have your questions ready.
For me. It kind of built a dynamic where
they respected my time and my position so that if they wanted
to invest that that was a contract.
Yeah, but I mean, you had the massive leg up of your years in
the first. Yeah.
Yes. And, and obviously when I raised
the venture round that we did a few years ago, I was, you know,
I, I showered, I went to that office, I pitched, I was 45
minutes late to the meeting, which, which was, you know, I
had told them, I said, I'm sorry that Uber was, was stuck in
traffic. And they said just take the
tube. And I said, no, I'm wearing
heels so good. But but you know, I was kind of
also like this, you know, this is the kind of, I guess, you
know, it's a fashion forward woman who is pragmatic, but not
pragmatic enough to take an Uber.
They would seem to to take the tube.
Sorry, take the tube. Or put some sneakers on and take
the tube with your Louboutins in the bag.
But sorry, I interrupted you. So when you've got a board
meeting, yeah, what did you reach for the a similar look
every time or? I still have all my clothes from
finance days and so I reach out for something in those.
It will be smart heels always and usually like a tweed blazer
or jacket on top. It's just kind of sets the
dynamic straight that, you know, maybe I dress up and I go to
industry events and you know, I, I'm, it looks like I have a
glamorous and fun life. But when it comes to us
discussing numbers and business plans, you have my full
attention. And I'm here as a as ACEO.
Yeah. So do you think you message
through your clothes? I think so it's a bit of
signalling for sure. And I don't it's not that I
believe in lean in, you know, Sheryl Sandberg's philosophy
about how like we just we just have to get on with it and and
do what's expected and behave like one of the boys, one of the
men. It's not that I believe in that,
but I think you know, when in Rome dressed like a Roman, as
they say. So based on the situation that
you are, just change your approach.
Be the chameleon. In your wardrobe, how much do
you rent out? Almost everything, really.
With the exception of things like Chanel and like, you know,
Manolo Blahnik, the the Hunger Sea, which is Saturn, You know,
I wouldn't be happy if they got scuffed.
But yeah, almost everything. This this is on the app so.
Yeah. And do you have any bags in
particular that you won't rent? The Chanel, yeah, I wouldn't do
that. And I've got an air mass which I
wouldn't. I just, I just feel like I don't
really, but I have a couple of Lady Dior's on there which I do
ask though. Like where are you taking the
bag if you're renting it? So, and have you ever bought
yourself something as a sort of reward to a fundraiser or just a
a particular milestone in your life?
You know, we did a partnership with Neda Portae and I remember
and it was also the Valley to be fair.
So Henry Festival and we have this particular part of the
festival which no husband likes. It's it's this festival where
you have to buy gold in the household in Indians love gold.
You know, that's the thing. We probably have more gold in
the federal reserves and apparently the Lady Dior has
real gold in it. So I said, listen, this is
cheaper than going to Cartier, so just buy me.
So I bought this really nice Lady Dior with with like a water
snake material, which by the way, it's not, it's not
endangered or whatever. It's it's very common.
And yeah, it's one of my, like, prized Lady Diors.
Wonderful, your Diwali Dior. Yes, exactly for closing that
aporte. Wonderful.
If I were to say to you, you could only dress in two brands,
which one High Street and one designer, which two would those
be? OK, don't really wear High
Street anymore just because we're quite, you know, like
rent. Instead of buying High Street,
can I choose something else? OK, two designer.
To designer, yeah, OK. I'll I'll give that one to you
because I know you've got your whole sort of rental wardrobe
too. Exactly, exactly.
I think, I think it's got to be something more contemporary will
be Jacques Meuse. I just feel like he, of course,
he's so good at Instagram, like the business has really
flourished because he knows how to do Instagram.
But I think in terms of his eye, you know, I, I, the first thing
I bought from him was before he was big on Instagram.
It was before his pink runway show in the lavender fields.
It was my civil ceremony outfit and my sister's like, you should
buy him before he goes massive and turns out now he's massive.
So I think Jacques Meus because I think his style has evolved
and it's kind of like, you know, he knows what women want to wear
and, and, and women of all shapes and sizes.
And I think his silhouettes definitely have been very
flattering towards me for me. And then I think the second
brand, if I had to choose Dior, I would love Dior.
If I could, I would love to wear ready to wear Dior all the time.
Every time now new Dior with JW Anderson, the aesthetic has
changed dramatically. I.
Know and I'm going to say the previous Dior, which fashion
industry doesn't seem to agree with, but I think it's me being
kind of feminine and and and girly and Asian about it.
But I I I loved the previous aesthetic by Maria.
Grazia Juri and she, she really, really understands women and
what we want to wear. I loved that aesthetic.
It it was. It's getting hate though from
the IT was. Truly, truly beautiful.
Yeah. Do you remember what you're
wearing when you first met your husband?
Yes, I do. What was it?
It was this, actually. It was beautiful and I wish how.
Did you meet him First off? We were planning a conference
together. We, we're kind of, I don't want
to call us nerdy Sidious, geeky people, but yeah, we're, we're
both quite career oriented, ambitious people and pragmatic.
And we met while we were planning a conference together.
He was the president, I was one of the vice presidents.
I was doing vice president marketing to try and get as many
delegates as possible and I heard him on the phone.
So it was kind of love at first sound.
I just. So you heard him before you saw
him? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because we were in different cities and we were planning his
conference together and he was enlisting me.
And when I heard him, I was like, Oh my God, he sounds like,
you know, the Harry Potter type of English people that I never
get to meet because my Business School was full of Europeans and
and Russians and, you know, Asians, that there were like 2
British people in my Business School despite living in London.
So yeah, I think, I think it kind of started from there.
And he, when he first saw me, I was wearing this really like
this bright red jumper from American Apparel, which
obviously no longer exists. It had this floral applique like
rose appliques all over it. It was actually really popular
back in the day. But it's I should have never
sold it. And I think a skirt with it, it
was not. The bottom part was not that
great, to be honest. That's what I mean.
I didn't know how to dress properly.
But so when do you feel you really nailed your style DNA?
Finance days, yeah, definitely. I think it was probably, I think
I finally had like my own salary, my, my own income, like
my own way of like choosing how I want to spend it, you know,
buying my first ever Burberry trench coat.
You know, when I started working in finance, these kind of, you
know, these kind of things. I sort of like picking up these
things and being like, I want to invest in that.
Like a Mulberry Bayswater bag for your finance job.
Yeah. It was just, I think the, that
was the time when I became, I think overall it's when I became
much more confident in myself and myself esteem grew just
seeing like I would make decisions of £80 million within
a matter of an hour. And you know, I, I was like, I
had just graduated undergrad from uni and I was like, Are you
sure you want me to make this decision?
And my male colleagues who are honestly my allies, they were
like, yeah, this is your job, you need to make a decision.
Go do research and tell us what we should do.
Like and I think that's what made me get my confidence and my
self esteem. Did you have a style icon?
I love Morticia Adams, I just love her.
No, I don't see you and Morticia Adams.
Not right now. I'm working.
No, no, I'm working right now. But I love her.
We have a dark cookie side. But I also love Fran in, you
know, the nanny. Fran.
Fine. Fran Drescher.
Yes. In the show The Nanny Do You
know, it was, it was big in the US and it was big in Singapore
on Hallmark Channel. She always wore these like cute
little skirts that had cord tops on them.
I think I had a little bit of that, definitely.
I mean, you strike me as being incredibly well organised.
I think it's the sort of investment analyst or banker or
you know, part of part of you. Do you plan your looks?
Yeah definitely. I just went to my friends
wedding in Ibiza and every outfit was on a spreadsheet.
And so how do you go about that? Do you try everything on and
your mirror selfie? No.
No, you just you list. It it's gotta work, I'll take it
and it has to work on that. We'll find a way to make it
work, but we'll style it in a different way.
But like in particular, two weeks ago I was, I was in London
for quite a few events. Then I went to New York for
Climate Week. No, I was at, I was in London
for Fashion Week for the Roxando show.
And then I went to New York Climate Week directly from the
show. And then I was in Ibiza for my
friend's wedding directly after. So it was non-stop and I had to
plan all my outfits. And I'm also very big on only
having cabin luggage. Oh, stop it.
Don't tell me you did all of that with cabin luggage.
I did. Oh my.
God, and so did my husband, so it's not like I was taking it
off his face. And so you couldn't even rent an
Ibiza and have it sitting there for.
You I I had rented and take it. Right.
Efficiency is the name. I mean like.
Champo to you, that is really, really impressive, and I do.
Four pair of heels. Sorry, sorry doesn't mean now.
Now I'm just showing off. You really are.
Oh my God. So OK, just run me through that.
What were the outfits looking like?
Look, they were for OK, for, well, OK, for New York Climate
Week. I went to the NET Gala, which
was this amazing event where I was set diagonal to Billie
Eilish and I was like, this is happening.
It was such a great first ever inaugural event to raise funds
for the climate crisis. And for that, I actually rented
from someone in New York. Perfect.
So the dresses. What did you what did you rent?
Oh, I. Rented this, completely sold out
everywhere. Tory Burch couture outfit.
It has mirrors all over it. It's actually a type of Indian
artwork, artisanship. Yeah, and it's sold out
everywhere. And this one woman, very chic
woman who live near Gramercy Park in New York, she had it and
I rented it from her. Amazing.
How much did that cost? You it cost $700.00, but the
gala was it's just one of those it's a crazy work event and
honestly the content that we got out of it for work to which.
You don't have to justify it to me.
So then that was one pair of the heels that went with that.
Yes, exactly. Then your New York Climate week.
Yes, I had quite a few meetings, round tables, workshops.
I was meant to speak on a panel, but I had to fly back for the
Ibiza wedding to that. I had kitten, kitten heel Jimmy
Choos, which was silver, which I ended up I never wear silver
jewellery. I ended up wearing silver
earrings to match with them. Fantastic, complete.
I felt like a different person and I was re wearing my clothes
but just with different shoes and earrings.
And yeah, that was me new, new Ishito.
And then obviously I had trainers to go to the airport
and running because I was late for my flight anyway.
And then I had another pair, oh, an option for the gala dinner,
which I didn't wear, which was the Manolo Hungasy.
So a pair that I didn't even wear.
And then you had all your Ibiza luggage in your carry on.
Yes. So I went back, got home at
10:00 PM start packing because my flight was the next morning
at 9:00 AM. So you came home between New
York and. I was going to switch within the
Gatwick terminal but British Airways told me they couldn't
guarantee if I missed my connection well so.
Impressive. Sorry you thought it was direct
from. Totally, totally.
That wasn't tough. What luggage you do you use?
Samsonite, You know the cabin, Yes.
He put it down to a. Sign of London has an amazing
new bag they call it. I'm trying to remember what it's
called. Not Pebble, Pebble or something
like that. It's a really good cabin bag.
If I asked you how your husband would describe your style DNA in
three words, what 3 words would those be?
Elegant, sultry, comfortable. That's quite a combo, but I love
it. Thank you, I love it.
It's what I want him to say. I think as human beings,
particularly in the fashion world, we can all be a little
guilty of sizing people up by what they're wearing.
And I just wondered, is that something that you're conscious
of doing? I feel like in the last six
years I've realized that the problem in the fashion industry
is not and the problem of waste in the fashion industry.
It's not just limited to fast fashion.
You also see that in designer fashion.
You know, you hear of brands burning their stock and things
like that. I think luxury, expensive
fashion, it no longer impresses me.
So when you see someone being super flashy in the way they
dress, I almost feel like do they have nothing inside to
offer that they have to wear everything out all at once.
So I don't know, I just feel I feel less drawn to it.
But the fashion industry all together.
And I don't know how you feel about this, Amanda, but I think
I just feel like if I could, if I had all the money in the
world, I would love to live the life of the Wild Thornberries,
who's like doing crazy safaris and not really bothering with
what they wear and what they. Look like in society technical
functional clothing. But not even that, I think I
just don't really care so much about, about the who's who and,
and what are they wearing and all of that.
I think maybe I've had overstimulation, You know, I
just, I've done so much of this in the last six years, even
though two years were in COVID. I just, I kind of see through
it. So when someone tells me that
they have the rarest, you know, whatever Birkin bag or whatever,
it doesn't really impress me because I think there's like a
lot of diminishing marginal utility, like money and fashion
can cannot buy you a place. That's what I feel, yeah.
Refreshing. Answering your question.
Absolutely. I mean really, Really.
Refreshing. It's that saying, right?
Like clothes don't make a person.
It's really like what's inside that makes a person and and I
feel that more having had so many experiences all squashed
into a short amount of time in the industry you've you've been.
Yes, I mean, you've, you've had a very intense time in the
industry. I think so and and I'm glad I
did because I've, I want the business to succeed.
So I have to be everywhere. But I just.
I I like my weekends to myself now and I like them without me
being in crazy fashion or. So what?
Stay at home, chill out, Ishita wearing.
Probably my aloe avory like yoga outfit or whatever or P JS.
I love stripe and stare, you know, a sustainable female run
and owned brand. I just I just don't I don't
really care that much. Do you know what I mean about
the aesthetic or whatever? Like I just just want to be
comfortable and hopefully my husband still finds it elegant
and sultry. Elegant and sultry like that?
Let's talk about hair, makeup and manicures.
What's the most important to you?
I'm wearing makeup for you today for the podcast.
Thank you. I think I'm quite fussy about my
hair. That's the one thing because
firstly, as you can see, it's quite light, which which you
can't really achieve usually for like South Asian hair, well, an
Asian hair in general. And this is like a product of me
going to George Northwood since 2022, yeah.
Genius. Yeah, and I've been going
religiously, that's why the colours what it is.
I think I'm kind of known for my hair as well, Touchwood.
I've been lucky to be blessed with good hair which grows quite
fast as well. But the colour it, it just, it
has to be right. Otherwise I, I, it's, I'm very
fussy about that, basically not fussy about nails and like
manicures, pedicure, I, I just find them to be a waste of time.
OK so you are a low maintenance girl except the hair.
I think I think the the manicure mattered more when I worked with
a bunch of men and we sat in a meeting room every day like for
meetings and they looked. Very visible hands.
Exactly right. I'm typing on my Bloomberg key,
bored. And, you know, where else can
you look, right? The men are looking at your
fingers and you're moving your hands.
So I think I cared more when I worked in finance and when I had
a corporate job. But now I just, I just find it
to take a lot of time. And I think there needs to be
some sort of business, some sort of idea that needs to make it
easier. You know, I don't think stick on
works, but I think there needs to be some sort of idea and then
make up. I just not really into wearing a
huge amount, would wear it for appearances, recordings.
I think skin is more important. And tweakments.
How do you feel about that? I mean, you're way too young to
even think about them so I don't know why I'm asking that.
I just, I have quite a few, like I know a lot of people around me
that do it and obviously the industry is quite open about it.
You see a lot of pressure on very young women to do it.
I think. I mean, I grew up in like a
household where my mom frowned upon even wearing makeup.
So I feel, I mean, I feel like I would be judged by her.
There's definitely that that Asian judgement that comes from
the part of the world that I'm from.
And I was, I don't know. I kind of feel like I want to
see how I evolve. Like I just want to see it go
natural. I, I might feel differently
after I have kids or whatever, but for now I just feel like,
let's see where this goes and, and then we can take it from
there. Try and be as natural.
I want to try and be as close to who I am as possible.
These things, they're not, they're not the temporary, you
know? Yeah, gorgeous.
Thank you. Just coming back to your husband
and getting married. What did you wear to get
married? Well, I have.
Well, so we had a civil ceremony, Yeah.
At Old Marlborne Town Hall, where we.
Used to live, yeah. And what did you wear for that?
Jacques Muse dress gorgeous. And this was like when, again,
he hadn't even done the famous pink runway show.
Yeah, so it was. He was not that well known.
And the prices were different. Yeah, as you can imagine.
And then did you have an Indian wedding?
And then I had the Indian wedding, the Angelo Indian, so
my my husband's British and I wore 4 different outfits.
Oh. Tell me.
Yeah.
So my husband's from this, I guess they call it village
called Kukun next to, do you know, Clifton House?
Yeah, yeah, next to Martin House.
Yeah. So we got married at Hedzer
House, which is next to Clifton House.
And so it was a very, I would say English setting.
And then we had an Indian Hindu wedding.
Because I'm religious. He's not, he's, he's, he's not
very religious. So did you have Hannah?
Hannah, tell me. So I had like all the way until
here and then I had four different outfits.
We had the night where you dance, you know, Sinky, that's
the musical performances. His parents also danced.
He has a few Scottish relative so they did a Kaylee as well.
His cousin was wearing a kilt to the wedding and but.
Your husband wasn't wearing a. Kilt no, no, no, my husband
isn't. And yeah, it was it's funny.
My my husband was joking. He was like, even if the wedding
is in is in England, more of your guests from from abroad
have come to this wedding and I was like, it's a destination
wedding for them. But no, it was really nice.
We had friends from all across the world who had come.
But you've got to talk me through the outfits.
So there was this, well, 4 outfits.
One outfit was this green and pink lehenga.
So it's like a skirt and yeah, and, and and it's a skirt and
like a top. And it was by this designer
called a nursery Ready. And funny enough, because I have
my outfits listed on the by rotation app, my wedding outfits
that an outfit gets rented all the time, even as a wedding
guest you could wear to someone else's and it's made all its
money back. It's just it's actually once an
upstage a bride and the renter was like, yeah, it was it was a
lot. And I was like, I told you, it's
it's, I wore it as one of my outfits as a bride.
And then I wore for the sangeet, which is musical performances
night. It's officially when it's a
night when you're meant to officially get engaged.
So the day before you get married, I wore this.
Gaurav Gupta, I don't know if you've heard of this.
He recently dressed Beyoncé, I think for her cowboy tour.
I wore like this. It was the celestial ball
because my husband loves space and I really care about
astrology since I'm Hindu. So we had a celestial ball and
his, his work is very, you know, ethereal and structural.
So I wore this white ruffle gown, which was also like paying
tribute to the fact that Western brides wear white.
And then I wore a yellow, I don't know how you say this.
It's kind of like foil work silver foil on yellow and and
Marigold for my holy ceremony, which means turmeric ceremony.
It's kind of like a before you get married, you get you get
cleansed sort of ceremony. And then the final ceremony was
the fairy, which is when you walk around the fire 7 times and
your father gives you away. And that was A and like it had
like Peacocks on it and it was, it was teal and pink and I
didn't wear red. Because I was going to say not
red. I didn't because my husband is
white and it wouldn't suit his skin tone and I wanted to just,
you know, be a bit mindful to make sure he looks good in his
outfit. Too.
So did did you? Did you sort of twin in some way
with your husband? Just the final one in terms of
color, yes, well, I, I did have color dress code.
I mean, if I look at my wedding website now, I I kind of
realized that was maybe like a annoying bride who was very
particular and all my friends now joke they're like, we wish
by rotation existed to your wedding, all these themes.
So there were colour dress codes, but I'd say our outfits
perfectly matched for the wedding that the fairy ceremony,
yeah. Beautiful, beautiful and you're
and were you in a sorry for your wedding ceremony?
Always a lehenga. It's just because I don't know
how to tie a sari, but also I think like sari's maybe lehenga
was kind of more youthful, yes, I think.
Yeah, yeah. Coming to your wardrobe, is it
phenomenally well organised? Well we just moved and bought a
house and there is renovation work that needs to be done.
So no, we're fighting for wardrobe space at the moment.
My husband and. I right.
Would you say you've had a worst fashion moment?
I mean, it's, it's comical. It's not worst.
I've definitely, as I've said, I've, I've definitely dressed
questionably in my younger years, especially when I was
first here in the university trying to figure out how to
dress for winter. But I think one more recent in
in my job now as by rotation founder and CEO, I went to the
Glamour Women of the Year awards ceremony because I was part of
their campaign with Samsung. And I was wearing this pink
shell Jacques Muse mermaid gown, long tail, like a long fishtail.
And then I spoke to one of my friends in the industry and he's
like, hey, you know, you're wearing the same dress as Rita
Ora. I'm like, what?
And he's like, yeah, she's wearing it in black.
And I'm like, I have to see this.
And I went out to her and I was like, hey, I heard that we're
wearing this. Oh, we are wearing the same
dress. And she's like, oh, and I was
like, how cool. It's like Angel and devil, you
know, like. And she's like, yeah.
And then she went to change. So I'm sorry.
It's not my fault. I love it.
Now I'm going to spin on some quick fire questions, fashion
advice you'd give your 20 year old self.
Stop buying trends. Which fashion trend or era would
you most like to see make a comeback?
Oh, I think it's going to be, you know, Mary Kay and Ashley
Olsen out and about with their Starbucks cups, Starbucks cups
and their hippie outfits and Balenciaga's.
I just love my Balenciaga city. The 2000s.
Which fashion or beauty trend would you consign to Room 101?
I think beauty. Trend would be contouring, no,
just stop and then fashion. Trend would be, you know,
there's like any strange trainer that's trying to be fashionable.
I just, I don't really like trainers unless you're going to
the gym. Your views on tattoos.
I'm not into them personally, just more because I think a lot
of people seem to regret them. But if you you fully don't
regret it then that's awesome. Beauty treatment you couldn't
give up. Probably be a serum after face
wash. High end or High Street?
High end. Rental.
Good bling O bear. More recently, Bear.
Minimalism or maximalism? I think more recently
minimalism. Couture or charity shop?
Charity shops don't have a lot of stuff for me in my size and I
shouldn't take them either. They should go to people who may
need them more. So I think it would be couture.
Poor you. Good one.
That was a good one. Crocs cute or puke, No sneakers
or stilettos. Stilettos.
That's why you're late for a meeting.
Bags or shoes? Bags, shoes, shoes.
Sorry, not trainers though. What kind of heels?
Heels. Heels.
Skinnies, boyfriends or wide legs?
I'm going to go with a wide leg but they have to be high
waisted. Body corn or boho?
Boho lately. Can't.
Can't do that anymore. Sports Lux or Brock Chick?
Sports Lux. Red carpet or relax?
Relaxed. Trend or style?
Style. Forever colour or monochrome?
Colour. I do like colour.
Experimental or uniform? Experimental.
Cashmere or cotton? Depends on the season.
Beanie or Berry? Neither.
Oh my. God, order or editor?
I think editor. Shapewear or sexy lingerie?
Sexy lingerie, tights, stockings or hold UPS?
Hold outs? Bikini or one piece bikini?
And finally, traditional last question at the end of the day,
what do you or don't you wear in bed?
That's a personal question. I take it you're not going to
answer that. No.
And she did. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Amanda. Lovely, lovely conversation.
Really good fun.