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Today I'm going on a sartorial journey with designer,
businessman, author, and TV presenter Patrick Grant.
Perhaps best known for his role in the TV show The Great British
Sewing Bee, Grant is a man who has a lot to say about clothes,
How many we buy, how we value them, what they're made from
and, importantly, who made them and where.
Patrick's career in fashion has spanned almost two decades.
In that time, he has rebuilt the Savile Row, Taylor Norton and
Sons, relaunched eat outs, for which he won Menswear Designer
of the Year at the British Fashion Awards, and built the
most successful designer collaboration in Debenhams
history with Hammond and Co. In 2015, Patrick bought the
ailing Blackburn clothing manufacturer Cookson and Clegg,
saving the factory from closure. In 2016, he created his
campaigning clothes brand Community Clothing, which
supports local clothing and textile manufacturers across the
UK. Hello and welcome Patrick.
God, you're undoubtedly a man on a mission.
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I mean, one of your most
recent projects has been to create this plastic free
sportswear collection, which I mean, congratulations.
I can only imagine the challenges because sportswear is
basically 95% plastic. I mean 99.999% plastic, there's
almost no non plastic in sportswear these days.
And I think what what's been really interesting, having
launched it a couple of weeks ago, is that so many people have
said, oh, I never thought about it as being plastic.
You know, we, we're very aware of plastic in lots of areas in
our lives, but lots and lots of people are unaware that
polyester, acrylic, nylon, polyamide, you know, all of
these things. You know, plant vegan leather is
plastic. You know, so many things that
we've never really think about in our lives as being plastic
are plastic. And the really dreadful thing is
that because we now throw so much of this stuff away and
because so, so much of it is really not very biodegradable at
all. In fact, some of the materials
like Elastane, we don't think have any mechanism of
biodegrading. This stuff just never goes away.
And a third of all the ocean, microplastics are fibres from
our clothes, and that stuff is working its way up the food
chain and it's causing so many problems and we don't need it.
This is the thing you know. And what's interesting to me is
even your organic, not your organic cotton T-shirt, but an
organic T-shirt if that hasn't been sewn with 100% cotton.
It will not biodegrade. It will not biodegrade.
And almost none of them are. Yeah, nobody sews with almost
every sewing factory in the world.
Almost every 100% cotton T-shirt, whether it's organic
cotton or non organic cotton, is sewn with polyester thread.
And and so that's the sort of the green washing in the
industry really isn't. It well, it's not just that.
It's just that people don't people don't think about it.
You know, I I think so many people in our industry have a
background which is on the arts side and the creative side of
fashion. And very few these days have a
background in the science and engineering side of of fashion.
And it used to be the case that, you know, big clothing retailers
had teams of scientists, everybody from Marks and
Spencer's to Debenhams had people who were experts in every
aspect of the science of the clothing that they produced.
And as things have got cheaper, they've had to get rid of those
experts. And most people now really don't
know that much about the science of it.
And there are a lot of people bluffing.
There are a lot of people outright just telling fibs.
And you know it. People go with the easy option.
And as as you alluded to, it took us nearly five years to
develop all of the different bits that went into this product
because everybody had stopped doing it.
Simple things like the elastic that goes into the waistband,
you know the elastic in running shorts is elastane which is an
oil based polymer and nobody was making a natural rubber
waistband elastic. So that was my next question.
How do you deal with the stretch element that we need in
sportswear? Well so the stretch in
sportswear comes in various different guises you have you
have the mechanical stretch in the fabric as you understand.
So a a knitted jersey has is made of lots of interlocking
loops and when you pull them they stretch apart and when you
take the you know the force away they they relax.
Now that stretch has a certain amount of recovery which you
know for years and years and years was was fine because we
didn't know any better. Today, of course we have added
to that the kind of chemical stretch that you get within
something like Elastane where you've got, you know, polymer
chains being elongated and recovering, which gives you that
kind of tight, quick recovery that we've all got used to in
running tights, you know, cycling shorts, all of that sort
of stuff. At the moment, we don't have an
answer to that, that we don't have an answer to.
We don't have the money, the resources and all the rest of
it. But you know, you can do a
mechanical version of that. It just won't have the stretch.
You know, everybody used to run in, you know, early run Hill
Tracksters, which until the early 70s were leggings that
just didn't have any of that chemical stretch.
It was all mechanical and we were all fine with it, you know,
Nobody needed figure hugging, you know, bum tights, leggings.
Back then, we all kind of lived perfectly happily without them.
Until the Kardashian Kardashians came.
Until, until, you know, big juicy bums came into fashion and
we all wanted to show them off. But you know, we that is a
consumer thing. You know, we have to deal with
if we want to make this stuff go away and we need to make it go
away, we have to change the way we think about the clothes we
wear. But surely isn't there an
element of when you've got elastin or Lycra or whatever you
want to to call it, of the support that that gives an
athlete or a jogger it? It really makes very.
I mean this is the argument I think some people give, but you
have to look at the statistics. I mean the the the world record
for the 1500 meters from the point.
So SEBCO, I think 1980 Olympics. SEBCO won the gold medal in the
1980 Olympics wearing entirely natural clothing.
You know, there was no Elastane in anything that he wore then.
He set a world record then that today is only 3% faster, you
know, and that includes all the changes in nutrition, the
changes in training, everything else that you add in that will
also have improved those times. It's a minuscule change.
So actually the performance side of it is really not that great.
OK, I'm going to throw a slight spanner in the works there.
Us girls with bosoms, they need supporting.
They do when we're running when. You're bouncing up and.
Down. Thank you.
Yes, exactly. Yes, so.
It's a difficult one. Are there any of these big, big
fabric manufacturers? Are they working on the science
to help us get over this Lycra hurdle?
People are working on the science but it is not an easy
one to overcome. There are people are looking at
at firstly people are looking at plant based, plant based
elastics. I mean natural rubber is is
fantastic and you if you had the money and the and the and the
wherewithal to do it you could probably produce a good woven
you could probably produce a good textile that incorporated
natural rubber. But natural rubber is much more
expensive. I mean this is the problem.
We're also used to things being cheap.
Elastane is cheap because it's made of oil and that's abundant
and it's it's easy to come by if you have to go to start using
natural rubber and and you know think about the quantity of
athleisure clothing that we wear.
You know it is utterly ubiquitous.
So you know you watch girls going to school in the morning
they're all wearing a black puffer and a pair of black
leggings and that didn't used to be the case.
You know you've got to we we now need to find an incredible
amount of this material just to clothe everyday people people in
their everyday clothes. So that's become that's a real
issue but there are there are people working on it.
It is tricky and so far there are no there are no suitable
answers. But elastane is a real problem.
It just which it just doesn't decompose naturally or
biodegrade naturally. And even with chemical
intervention, it doesn't really break down either.
You just end up with this sort of soupy gluey slurry even if
you try and chemically break it down.
So all of that stretch clothing we're wearing, frankly, is an
absolute disaster for the natural world.
Yeah, I mean plastic is a big one because again, the amount of
clothing that we wear now, if if it's not as easy, just, you
know, it's not as easy as simply saying, right, well, we just,
you know, switch from using plastic to using natural
materials because they're just, there are not enough natural
materials on the planet to make the quantity of clothes that we
produce now. So we have to tie that in with a
massive reduction in what we buy which.
Brings me on onto my next point. I know you're busy with numerous
projects, but you're writing not one book, but two books.
Well, hopefully written. Oh.
Good. Yes, congratulations.
Yeah well that artists have a message from my publisher this
morning so very nearly written. So I've I've I've got two books
that will be out in the spring. One of them is very
straightforward. It is a book about bespoke
tailoring, so. Love it.
Is a book. It's sort of behind the scenes.
It's Savile Row. It's sort of, it's the real
stars of Savile Row, who are those people who produce the
clothes and also the people that produce the textiles and
everything else. So it's a sort of it's an homage
to all of those incredible Craftsman who are the people
that really make this world tick.
And it is also a detailed set of instructions, should you wish to
follow them, for how to make a shirt, a jacket, a pair of
trousers and a waistcoat, which nobody, I think actually has
ever done before. That's really beautiful because
it actually talks back to your passion for crafting and making
and all of that. Yeah, it is a it's a it.
It honestly has been an utterly horrendous process.
The last book which discussed the method used by several
tailors, was published by a magazine called the Taylor and
Cutter in the 1920s. I think it was 1926.
And it's instructions. I mean really it, you know, it's
a three, There's a three volume set of the kind of art of
bespoke tailoring and they're quite sought after and we've got
one in the shop. But you really need to be a
tailor to be able to follow the instructions.
I mean the instructions for making trousers are 6 pages long
you know and I think our instructions for making trousers
about 40 pages long and you know and it's it's you know we've
what I've done is is I've I've what I've I've we've documented
the entire process for one of our coat makers one of our
trouser makers one of our waistcoat makers and and and
Emma Willis very kindly let me muscle into her.
Shirt making. In in in Gloucester so we
followed their shirt making method.
So it's one particular person's method.
Every tailor on Savile Row, you know, every tailoring house will
employ multiple tailors, but each tailor will have a slightly
different method. So you know Chris who makes my
trousers, you know, the way he, the way he does, every single
part of that is particular to him, and it comes from the
person who taught him. He learns in the 1960s.
He's been. Wonderful.
And he's made some, you know, he's made trousers for, you
know, the most incredible array of people.
But it's it is it is a sort of celebration of the the craft of
bespoke tailoring. And if you like to sew and you
fancy having a go at hand making a jacket in in the Savile Row
method, you know. How inspiring.
Well, I hope so. As much as anything, I think it
is important to historically document this.
Craft. We are very bad in this country
at looking after our heritage crafts.
In Japan they have a A they they they are described as living
treasures. They have this idea of living
treasures and every ancient craft that they believe is
important to their cultural heritage is protected by law and
the government provides money to ensure that there is always a
master and an apprentice on every one of the old crafts that
they consider important. In this country we don't have
that. Luckily we have the Heritage
Craft Association, which King Charles is the the president, I
think. But that organization is a
private organization that requires charitable donations to
keep alive all of these amazing things.
And lots of them are very endangered, you know, things
like, you know, paper marbling and Armour, Japanning and sword
making. And I did a documentary last
year about the making of the uniform for the coronation.
And obviously those those uniforms are covered with
extraordinary gold wire embroidery.
But there is only one gold wire drawer left in the UK.
So when that person disappears, there will be no more gold wire
to make gold wire embroidery. So you know anybody listening
who has money in their pocket and wants to preserve an old
craft craft association? Needs it.
Needs it, but it should be it. Should be something that we as a
nation look after. You know, this is our cultural
making heritage and we we are a nation of extraordinary makers.
Yeah. So that's one book.
What's the other one? Are you allowed to?
Yeah, the. Other The other book is.
So that book is called the Savile Rose Suit.
The other book is called Less and it is essentially the
philosophy behind community clothing, which is really
straightforward, have fewer things, have better things and
make those things locally, supporting fantastic jobs for
people that really need them in all across the country.
And the the IT is, you know, it's effectively, it's the
founding principles of what we're about.
So it's a it's a it's a book that's about consumerism, it's
about the evolution of quality and the evolution of work.
You know, we used to, we used to employ lots of people in this
country making things and now we have outsourced all of that
making to other nations. And lots and lots of people are
really struggling for something to do.
And just reading a piece in the Times the other last week about
the amount of amount of young people requiring therapy because
they don't have, you know, they they don't have a satisfying
life. They don't leave school with
good qualifications, they don't have good work to go to.
You know, there were there are a lot of people that are being let
down by the kind of education system and you know our our
desire for cheaper and cheaper. Clothes.
And the thing that that frustrates me is the the lack of
looking after our beautiful hand, crafted or just
beautifully made with love, Our basic T-shirts, all of that.
Everything's got very disposable, yeah.
Everything has got incredibly disposable.
I mean, we only know, we know. You know, you only need to look
at how many pieces of clothing we make.
I mean the last year, a year before, I think, you know, there
were 100 billion pieces of clothing made.
On the planet I, it just sounds to me because actually, I think,
you know, part of who we are should be looking after what we
put on our bodies. Yeah, Well, I think.
Almost everything, you know, I look around this, you know your
gorgeous flat and I see lots of things, you know, You know, it's
surrounded by high quality objects.
And you know, I think the we used to treasure all of the
things we owned. You know, we used to buy things
with great care. Even as, you know, when I was a
kid, because things were a little more expensive, we took
more time to choose them with great care.
You know, I would go to the same clothes shop 7 * 8 times, try
something on, go back the next Saturday, try it on again.
Think to myself, can I really afford it?
How often, how often am I going to wear it?
Those conversations we had in our own heads and everything.
And that was the same with, you know, mugs and tables and chairs
and everything that we everything that we bought, we
bought thoughtfully. And now because things are so
cheap, we no longer need to give any thought to them.
And so people are buying things, you know, with absolutely no
consideration. The, you know, you can buy a
piece of clothing now for less than the cost of a cup of
coffee. So why do you need to give it a
thought? And that is of course terrible
in all sorts of ways. And you know, there used to be,
we used to employ about eight and a half million people in
this country making all the everyday things that we have
around us. And for some reason we decided,
I think as a nation that that was somehow, you know, a thing
of the past. And, you know, we let all of
those jobs go. We outsource them to other
countries. And now we've got millions and
millions of people who are leaving school, you know, people
who may not be academically ready for university or they may
never be sort of the sort of person that wants to go to
university. Those people have have to have,
you know, we need to find good jobs for everyone.
And this stuff could be doing that.
And I bemoan the the time that we just did away with our
polytechnics. Because, you know, actually
making things, doing things can be such a rewarding career.
Not everyone has to go to university to get a degree in
God knows what. God knows what exactly.
We're here to talk about your personal style today.
Your likes, your dislikes. So I just wondered, coming here
to say, how did you decide what you were going to wear?
Well, I'm, I'm. I'm wearing.
I'm basically. I'm wearing what I wear every
day. I.
Am don't be through it. Well, I am.
Well, it's it's chilly today, so I'm wearing a pair of leather
boots. They are they are Red Wing.
They're made in in Minnesota by the original Red Wing boot
company. I'm wearing socks that were made
in South Wales. They are actually E tort socks
and I've probably had them. They're Navy blue.
I've probably had them. They're made by a phone called
Corgi in Amman Ford and they make they're the royal warrant
holder for socks, but they make amazing socks.
I'm wearing community clothing what what are called the
cameraman pants. Yeah, so.
Cameraman Pant is a pant that I saw one of the one of the
cameramen on Sewing bee the year before last was wearing this
Japanese workwear pant and that he bought in a shop in Tokyo.
And I really like them. So I took a photo of them and we
did a version of them for community clothing which we
launched last year and they were hugely successful for men and so
we did a version for women as well called the Camera Woman
Pant and they are just, they are a heavy, I think there are 320g
cotton Panama canvas construction and they've aged
really well. I mean I I these these were
actually a sample that I got off the line in August last year and
I've pretty much worn them every day since.
I'm also wearing I'm wearing a Navy jumper and a Navy T-shirt
so I I went up Navy blue. This jumper I I think I think I
put it on in November and I haven't taken it off since.
It's a big eight ply Shetland wool jumper.
It's made by William Locke who make jumpers for community
clothing. They're in Hoyk.
They make the Royal Regiment of Scotland jumpers.
Yes, because it it, well, it seems quite regimental.
It's got it's got suede patches on the elbow and the shoulder.
It's very similar to a jumper that we did for torts a few
years ago that Victoria Beckham bought for David for his
Christmas, which I was very pleased about.
It's just a really heavy, thick, chunky bomb proof jumper that
you know is is incredibly warm and you know it's got that sort
of loosey 80s sort of vibe to it.
It's very relaxed and I love it and when you know when it gets a
bit warmer I'll take it off and I'll put it back in the cupboard
and I'll get it out again in eight months time.
And that's kind of how I live with my wardrobe.
I sort of, I have things I wear all the time.
I have lots and lots of Navy crew necks.
So I have lots of Navy crew neck T-shirts, long sleeve T-shirts,
lightweight John Smedley knitted lightweight cotton crew neck
jumpers, mid weight jumpers, lambs, wool jumpers.
I mean, I mostly live in the same stuff all the time, which
makes life very easy because I take things off, I fold them up,
I put them down and I get up in the morning and.
Is it all your clothing made in Britain?
Almost all of it. I mean, my shoes are made in
America, yes, but I wear a lot of trickers too.
So if I'm not wearing Red Wings, I'm wearing trickers.
And I've got 5 pairs of trickers, two black pairs and
three different brown pairs, but all the same kind of heavy, you
know, commando. So actually I've got commando,
so, but I mean at least two of them have been resold.
Almost everything I wear is is I I know where everything comes
from. Everything I wear, I know it's
provenance. You're probably most visible
through your role in British Sewing B.
Would you say you have a judging uniform for that?
Well I'm mostly, I, yeah. I mean pretty much I, I I mostly
wear a jacket and trousers and I mostly wear a regular shirt and
mostly I wear a tie. But I yeah.
And if if I think the first time I didn't wear a tie people were
sort of up in arms on Twitter And then the first time I think,
yeah, I wear a long sleeve polo shirt in this coming series and
I imagine people will lose their minds.
I was going to ask, were the BBC very prescriptive?
BBC have nothing to say about what I wear at all apart from
that, annoyingly, I really can't wear much pattern because
digital cameras are terrible strobing and I think the the IT
they get worse as the technology gets better.
In inverted commas they get they get less able to cope with
patterns. So almost everything I wear is
just a shade or a texture. So you can't wear a beautiful
Prince of Wales check or no? No, no.
Just spinning on to Norton and Sons because you've you talked
about when you bought it, it didn't really have its own
identity. Yeah.
And I just would love to understand how you went about
creating that identity of an existing brand.
And yeah. And would you say its identity
was very it is very much who you are.
I think it's quite heavily tied to to to to to me personally.
I mean it it. I mean Norton's was interesting
because it had been in existence for 185 odd years when I took it
over and it had in different periods had strong identities.
There was a head cutter in the 1960s called John Granger who
took it in a very sort of preppy Hamptonian East Coast American
and he travelled a lot on the East Coast of the States and he
built a very big business over there and it was it sort of
exuded a sort of Hamptons charm and even the look of the shop
sort of felt a bit you know East Coast American more than it felt
London. But that had died away and
actually it had sort of lost its way and and I just wanted to
restore it to what it what it sort of did best which was be
just a a very good tailor's and I celebrated the fact that it
was small. I think the the prior the owner
prior to me Nick had had sort of shield away from talking about
its size because he felt somehow embarrassed that we only made a
few 100 suits a year and I thought that was that was that
was part of the charm of it. We also we we also instituted a
policy or I also instituted a policy of only using British
made clothes and talking about the stories and the provenance.
And it was a big part of Norton's was you know we you
could come in and you could buy a Tweed from you know from us
from somebody like our Dalanish on the Isle of Mull where we you
know I I've met the sheep that the wool had come from and you
know the Weaver worked on the in in a weaving shed on the farm
and it was you know we could tell the story of these textiles
and of course you know in the back in the workshop were the
people cutting and sewing the clothes.
So you know, provenance is a really important part of how we
build quality around objects. And again, it's sort of it's,
it's entirely the same now with community clothing.
You know, I can tell you at community clothing, you know
where all of our products come from.
You know, I know where the textiles have come from.
I know in the case of this jumper where the wool has come
from and where it was spun and where it was knitted and
finished. You know, it's it's being able
to attach a story of of where and who has made something is
incredibly important to our understanding of quality.
I mean the reason we buy handmade ceramics and you know,
I'm looking at a cup on your table over there.
You know, you can tell that that is a handmade cup and you know
that will have been made by a an individual craftsperson.
And I've got cups in my house and you know that.
I mean, most of the cups in my kitchen are handmade because I
really like handmade ceramics. But you know, I I know who the
maker is. And you know, you can see the
marks that their hands have made.
And not only are they better quality objects, because you
know, they will be their integrity, physical integrity
will be higher. But understanding who has made
them gives them more value to us, makes them more precious to
us, allows us to feel closer to them and therefore increases
their value and makes us want to cherish them and keep them.
You know if you've got something where you have no, I no idea at
all where it's come from, how can you possibly feel a
connection to it. And I think that is what is
important. It was important for Norton's,
it was important for Torts and it's equally important for
community clothing because quality is everything you know
we and and a big part of quality is, is where and how it's it is.
It is crafted. Yeah, I I think so true.
And in terms of the the style, did you, did you find yourself
reducing the offer of Norton? 'S well we just so, so.
My first head cutter at Norton's was a guy called John Kent and
John had a particular style and we had this one fantastic coat
maker called Wally Pattendon who had been in the business for a
long, long time since the 70s. And between John and Wally, they
made me my first single Breasted coat at Norton's.
And it had a very particular, you know, it had a very
particular proportion. It had a very particular shape
to it, certain amount of roping on the sleeve head.
You know, the the suppression at the waist was was just enough,
but not too much. It had a sort of natural natural
chest. It wasn't overly chesty.
And the lapel shape that had this ever so subtle kind of
round on the lapel that was Wally's pattern.
You know the individual. So the cutter will cut certain
parts of your clothing but the Taylor coat maker, trouser
maker, waistcoat maker will add certain bits to it and and that
that one of that pattern of Wally's for that lapel plus
John's cutting became the blueprint for the Norton and
Sons style and that was that became sad.
But, you know, part of developing the brand was was was
good luck. You know, partly it was me,
Yeah, I said this is what we want to do.
It's a simple offer. We're small.
We understand where everything comes from.
But also, you know, we got got very lucky, got introduced to
Kim Jones, who ended up coming back and having us make pieces
for his catwalk shows for a couple of years.
And through Kim, we got to meet Alexander McQueen, who became a
good customer, and Christopher Kane, who we've made clothes for
now for over a dozen years, made for his collections and made for
his, made for him personally. You know, we've we've made from
Christian Louboutin, became a big customer.
And I mean all sorts of people, the lots of young London Fashion
designers kind of came to us and that became part of who we were.
And did any of working with any of those designers?
Did any of their requests or style rub off on you personally,
do you think? No, it didn't.
No. I mean, I was very clear about
what I liked and what I didn't like.
And actually most of what we were doing with those guys was,
was women's wear anyway. I mean, obviously we were making
clothes for them personally. I mean we made, we made quite a
lot for for for Lee McQueen and actually he took off from me,
which was really nice. You know, he was one of the
world's most, I mean one of the most talented designers of all
time. And he's asking me what it what
I I would do. The collaborative process in
design is just is so inspiring, isn't it?
I often talk about clothes being our armour, you know, in terms
of how we project ourselves to the world and sometimes how we
cocoon ourselves from the world. And I know that you sadly lost
your father before time during COVID and I just wondered if
your approach to dressing changed during that time.
I always really liked the way my dad dressed and he he and my mom
were both. I mean, they didn't have huge
wardrobes, but what they again, it was, it was about a few good
things. And my dad my dad had lots of
suits in the wardrobe that were bought and quite a lot that that
were bought second hand and then he had altered for him.
So I and I've still got those and I, you know, I treasure
them. There are things that that that
were his that I wear now that that are the most precious
things I have. And I also you know I have AI
have an old sweatshirt that my granny bought me.
She worked well into her late 70s possibly even into her early
80s. She kept working and she wanted
to think. She she worked for Citizens
Citizens Advice Bureau. One day a week she worked for
the Duke of the Clue, doing tours of his house.
And then she worked for one of the charity shops in Galashiels
and this sweatshirt came in and she bought it for me and she
thought I'd like it. And I still, I mean, I nearly
wore it today, but I'm in Navy blue.
But it's a sort of plum coloured 80s sweatshirt that she bought.
So, you know, all of those things that that have stories
attached and sentimental memories attached to them are
are important. And my dad's clothes.
Yeah, I've got loads. I mean, I've got lots of ties of
his and certainly I've got his old dinner suit.
That is absolutely bomb proof. It's like a sort of 22 oz.
Barrack, I was going to say they were heavy and thick, weren't
they? Yeah, I've got one of his.
I've got one of his British warm overcoats.
I've got evening tails, which of course I very rarely wear.
I've got morning tails, which of course also very rarely wear.
But I've got, yeah, I mean his cummerbund, the dinner suit,
Even though I wear a new, I'm mostly wearing newer, lighter
dinner suit. I wear my dad's cummerbund
often. The suit, my dinner suit is a
three piece with waistcoat, but quite often I prefer to wear a
cummerbund than the thing. But I've also got various dress
waistcoats that were his, which sometimes I can substitute in.
And you know, I've got his old Marcella white tie, which I
think I've probably worn about twice in my life.
But my commend ball at Oxford, I had to, you know, it was a white
tie ball. So I've worn it for that.
Now your Instagram handle is Patrick Grant ISM.
Would you say you have any isms in your approach to how you
dress or how you style yourself? I.
I don't know. I mean, I I think everything
that I do in clothes now, my my style has got simpler and
simpler and simpler. I I remember a time when I was
in my 20s where I sort of worked out what things really worked
for me in terms of the cuts of trousers and what I like to wear
and and but as I've got older the the it's got simpler and
simpler and simpler So I don't know what the ISM would be but
sort of it's not quite minimalism but it's definitely I
mean I guess probably it is actually.
I'm just looking at my I'm wearing everything is Navy blue
apart from my shoes. But I was a big actually it was
a big John Paulson fan as a as a as a early 20 year old.
Yeah. And that his big book minimum
was it. Minimalism or or minimal?
Minimum. Minimum.
Well, I can't remember what it's called now anyway, but it maybe
it. Was called minimum.
Minimum I think. She was probably got it
somewhere here. We have, yeah.
But I was very very much very much inspired by by that and and
I I nearly became an architect. I sort of once I'd finished my
undergrad engineering degree I got AI went back to night school
and did a level art and got a place to study architecture at
Liverpool. But I didn't take it up.
It's always been sort of simple shapes.
It's always been about shapes and silhouettes and and and and
texture more than it is about pattern.
I I, I I don't wear a lot of pattern.
Do you have a style icon? No, I don't think I do.
I mean, there are certain people whose style I really like, but
it's mostly people who've got a kind of a, a a, a clear and
distinct sort of individual style that doesn't look like
it's built by somebody else. If someone were to describe your
style in three words, your style DNA, how would you what would
you want those 3 words to be? I think it would be, I mean it
would definitely be simple and it would probably be, it would
probably be Navy because that would be ridiculous not to
include that word. But I think it's it's about it's
it's quality. You know, I think I think you
can see in the things that I wear that they are that they are
well made and and I care very much about that.
I like things that age well. I like, you know, the shoes, you
know, they not only do they get more comfortable, but they, they
get more character the more you wear them.
You know, I think especially men's shoes, which tend to be a
bit heavier, you know, the more you wear them and Polish them,
they develop these interesting, beautiful patinas about them.
And it's the same with, you know, it's the same with good
denim. It's the same with good canvas
in a pair of trousers. I mean you're you're that twill
that you're wearing. You know things good things age
well and I think you can see that in good clothes.
You know, if you you know I think what's really sad about
modern clothing is that most modern clothing hasn't has
nothing in it that will age in any interesting way.
In fact, the, you know, the the time that most modern clothing
is at its best is the moment before it's even been unpacked
and put on a hanger. Because it doesn't even sit well
on a hanger anymore and, you know, let alone wash well and
wear well. Would you say you had a worst
fashion moment at any? Point I mean, some terrible
ones. Yeah, absolutely.
I experimented, you know, wildly as a late teen and in my early
20s. But thankfully I grew up before
the digital, so there may be photographs in the bottom of
kind of cardboard boxes tucked away in people's cupboards, but
there's nothing on the Internet to prove it.
But yeah. Are we shocked, so relieved
about that? Yeah, I mean I remember you know
when I was I, you know I was AI was a sort of I was I was 16 in
1988 which was you know the sort of good one revival of the kind
of acid house era and the start of all that kind of Manchester.
And I was wearing 22 inch bell bottom jeans with Paisley
hoodies and all, all manner of utter horrors.
But you know, but it was good at the time.
It was great, you know. And did your hair did what?
What was your hair? Like, I mean, I had all sorts of
things. I mean, I I did have, I had very
long hair at one point. I had completely shorn.
I mean my hair's very short today, but you know, I had hair
this short that was kind of Arctic silver and a kind of
Violet silver. I lived in San Francisco for a
while and and hung out with a lot of lot of hairdressers from
Sassoons over there and they did fun things to my hair And yeah,
I wore a sarong years before David Beckham wore.
So I wandered round, wandered round Savile San Francisco in
the early 90s wearing a sarong. And you know, I had fun with
clothes, but you know, luckily there's very little evidence of
it. I can remember some of mine,
which I won't talk about. Oh, no, we're not.
This is about you, not me. I always think as men get older
they get more distinguished and I know you're in the face of the
camera all the time. Would you ever consider any form
of age prevention? I've actually, I've.
I don't know. I really don't.
I mean, I, I I actually, I mean for years I used, I used a bit
of moisturizer and I did use it fairly routinely and.
That sounds like past tense. Yeah, well, only 'cause I I used
to be. I was an ambassador for Sicily
for a while and they used to send me lots of good stuff and
and then all the people that I dealt with disappeared and it's
harder to get stuff out of them anymore.
And it was. I got used to this incredible
quality of stuff that's sort of too expensive to buy for
yourself for me anyway, because I still, I mean, I despite years
in this industry, I probably earn, I earn a lot less now.
Than I did in my mid 20s when I had a well paid job in a normal.
But loving it far more but. Loving it far more, but I mean,
I my skin care regime really kind of starts, starts from the
inside and works out. So I'm I'm pretty healthy.
I I drink almost no alcohol at all.
I mean, I probably have two or three drinks a year and maybe
have a glass of champagne. Impressive patch.
Yeah, I don't smoke. I exercise pretty well.
I I've I've been doing intermittent fasting for a
couple of well like 4 years I guess.
Now it's brilliant, isn't? It.
Yeah. And and my skin is in good
shape, so. So actually I don't need to do
and I don't mind being Gray. I mean the Gray, the grayness in
the face. Luckily my hair's starting to go
a little bit Gray, but not that bad.
But I don't mind it. Let's talk about travel, yeah.
Do you have a particular airport look?
Well, it's the same, it's. The same you're in it.
I'm in it. I'm in it.
I don't. Well that's the nice thing.
I've sort of worked out a a a uniform for life that does for
most things. You know in the summer it's you
know I've I've got so I've got these really great E tots kind
of they were they were sort of 50s naval short, big, pleated
with these really nice pocket flaps on the back pockets.
And I've got a couple of pairs of those that do me and they're
Navy blue. Obviously I've got a couple of
pairs of those. We now do them for community
clothing as well. But so yeah, but I wouldn't
travel in a pair of shorts but I mean all my shoes are
comfortable. I don't feel like, oh, I need to
wear joggers on the plane because actually all my clothes
are really comfortable. What luggage do you use?
Luggage wise, I've got, I've actually got a Really.
I've got two really old Moogie canvas holders.
One yeah, which. Both of which are kind of hand
luggage compliant. Even the small hand luggage
compliance size. And that's what I take most of
what most of my packing is. Books, usually on holiday.
Great camera books, a few bits of clothing.
If you didn't own the Taylors, Norton and Sons, which Taylor
would be your favorite, do you think?
I don't know. It's an interesting question
actually. I mean, I do really like
Norton's because of its, but it's because it looks still.
It looks quite a lot like like how I would like it to look, but
there are lots. I mean the lovely thing about
Savile Row is that the street is filled with brilliant with
brilliant tailors. I think in terms of the look,
there was a period when Kilgour's look before Karlo went
too mad, where their look was really just spot on.
But I really love Henry Poole like Simon and the guys at Pools
are brilliant. It's a, you know, they're
lovely. Huntsman is great.
I mean, Anderson Shepherd is not my style, that kind of Cardi
Drapey thing, just not my bag. But you know, it's beautifully
executed. It's not.
I mean, they're all really good. This is the great thing about
Savile Row. You've got, you've got sort of
something for everyone and you know, you go where your style
go, where you feel comfortable because everybody makes
brilliant quality stuff on that street.
Yeah. I mean outside the row, is there
a particular brand that you admire?
You know, there really isn't. I mean, there are people.
I mean, there are certain brands that I always that I used to
like a great deal, but they've sort of strayed away from the
formula. I like brands that make their
own stuff. Actually in the book that I'm
that I'm in, in the book that I'm doing, I've got a I'm doing
an appendix of all the people that make stuff and sell it
themselves, sort of artisan makers.
There are very few of those, but I like, you know, I like, I like
people that make things. I mean, lots of the knitwear
guys sell their own stuff and I really like, right, Really like
that. Do you buy vintage?
Yeah. And where?
Where are your favorite? Horns today I So there's a
couple of places there's a place in Brooklyn that I that for
years and years I've bought stuff where Nick Sullivan at
American Esquire put me onto it when he had sort of been banned
from buying any more clothing by his wife.
He sort of he's like, right. I can tell you about this place
now because I don't need it anymore, but I'm not going to
say what it is, but it's in Brooklyn and it's amazing.
It's run by Japanese, a couple of Japanese people.
I like Armstrong's in Edinburgh. I buy bits and pieces from them.
They've now got a number of shops.
They, I mean, Armstrong's has been around since I was a kid.
I bought stuff from Armstrong's when I was a teenager.
And you know, 40 years later, it's still, it's still going.
In fact, it's got more stores now than it did when I was
younger. eBay. I buy tons on eBay.
I'm always on eBay. But everything in my house is
from eBay. You know, I I very rarely buy
new stuff and I buy stuff from auction rooms.
And yeah, I mean lots Rd. down the road, you.
Know it's a good one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, there's bits in my
house from lots road and. Let's turn on to some quick fire
questions. So these are going to be quick
answers. OK.
All right, fine. What fashion advice would you
give to your 20 year old self? Don't buy those really crusty
mew mew shoes. You'll you won't wear them that
much. Which fashion trend would you
most like to see make a comeback?
Oh, men's like peacockism in men's is kind of making a it's
making a comeback. Anyway, that's sort of late 60s,
early 70s thing. What fashion or beauty trend
would you consign to room one O 1?
I don't know. I'm not a big fan of the Goatee.
Let's put that in there. Great.
Last impulse buy. Again, I just don't really buy
much new clothing. Well, that's great impulse.
Oh, I'll tell you what it was all right.
I bought a pair of amazing hand knitted socks at Kew Gardens at
the Winter Lights thing. They've got a they've got a gift
shop at Kew Gardens and these were.
I bought a pair for myself and a pair for my girlfriend.
Big thick, hand knitted, chunky, multi colored socks.
I can't remember the name of the brand, but they they sell them
in the Kew Garden Shop. They're amazing.
Brilliant views on tattoos. I don't have any and I suspect
people will come to regret them in 1520 years time.
Grooming or well-being treatment?
You couldn't give up. Yeah, none of that really.
I mean, I get yeah, I get a £10 haircut from passerini's in
Blackburn. You're fantastically low
maintenance, high end or High Street.
High end. Crocs cute or puke?
I'm not a Crocs fan. Birkenstocks or Brooks?
Oh, I like both. I can't.
Yeah, both are a big part of my wardrobe.
Sports Lux or rock'n'roll? I don't know.
I think probably sports lux. Savile Row or jeans.
Savile Row. Dinner jacket.
What else I can say to that one? Dinner jacket black, white or
color? Black.
Well, actually, midnight blue. I was going to say I bet you're
a Navy blue dinner. Jacket.
Yeah, very midnight blue. My my new ones, my old, my old
one, My dad's old one is was black.
But yeah, both of the contemporary ones I've got are
midnight. Double breasted.
Single breasted. What double?
I think I wear more double than single, I think.
Cargos or chinos? Well, I wear these cameraman
pants. They're probably more like a
cargo than a Chino. Trend or style?
Style. Colour or monochrome?
Well, mono Blue. Pattern or plain, plain hoarder
or editor. No, I'm quite an editor, yeah.
Charity shop. That's.
I mean, that's probably a lie, actually, because I've got so
many pieces of clothes in my archive, but they're not really.
They're sort of work. Do you separate your archive out
well? My archive just ends up, or my
clothes end up going in and then just disappearing And then, you
know, six years later, I'll be like, oh, there's that coat.
I wondered where that had gone. Charity shop or resale?
Charity shop? Yeah, Make your make your old
stuff do good for some people. Boxers or briefs?
Briefs, budgie smugglers or board shorts?
Budgies. Beanie or baseball cap?
Beanie Far more than a baseball cap, yeah.
I'm finally. I don't mind either.
At the end of the day, what do you or don't you wear in bed?
I don't. Patrick, such fun having you
here talking all things fashion and style.
I could have chatted all afternoon, but thank you for
your time. My pleasure.