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In 2015, Patrick bought the 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,160 ailing Blackburn clothing manufacturer Cookson and Clegg, 36 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,320 saving the factory from closure. In 2016, he created his 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,160 campaigning clothes brand Community Clothing, which 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,440 supports local clothing and textile manufacturers across the 39 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,960 UK. Hello and welcome Patrick. 40 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,880 God, you're undoubtedly a man on a mission. 41 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,920 Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I mean, one of your most 42 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,760 recent projects has been to create this plastic free 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,040 sportswear collection, which I mean, congratulations. 44 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,640 I can only imagine the challenges because sportswear is 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,320 basically 95% plastic. I mean 99.999% plastic, there's 46 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,760 almost no non plastic in sportswear these days. 47 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,040 And I think what what's been really interesting, having 48 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,200 launched it a couple of weeks ago, is that so many people have 49 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 said, oh, I never thought about it as being plastic. 50 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,560 You know, we, we're very aware of plastic in lots of areas in 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,040 our lives, but lots and lots of people are unaware that 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,040 polyester, acrylic, nylon, polyamide, you know, all of 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,080 these things. You know, plant vegan leather is 54 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,440 plastic. You know, so many things that 55 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,560 we've never really think about in our lives as being plastic 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,760 are plastic. And the really dreadful thing is 57 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,520 that because we now throw so much of this stuff away and 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,640 because so, so much of it is really not very biodegradable at 59 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:34,960 all. In fact, some of the materials 60 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,880 like Elastane, we don't think have any mechanism of 61 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,400 biodegrading. This stuff just never goes away. 62 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,120 And a third of all the ocean, microplastics are fibres from 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,560 our clothes, and that stuff is working its way up the food 64 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,720 chain and it's causing so many problems and we don't need it. 65 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,040 This is the thing you know. And what's interesting to me is 66 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,960 even your organic, not your organic cotton T-shirt, but an 67 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:05,240 organic T-shirt if that hasn't been sewn with 100% cotton. 68 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,440 It will not biodegrade. It will not biodegrade. 69 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,480 And almost none of them are. Yeah, nobody sews with almost 70 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:12,880 every sewing factory in the world. 71 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Almost every 100% cotton T-shirt, whether it's organic 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,360 cotton or non organic cotton, is sewn with polyester thread. 73 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,040 And and so that's the sort of the green washing in the 74 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,040 industry really isn't. It well, it's not just that. 75 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,960 It's just that people don't people don't think about it. 76 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,480 You know, I I think so many people in our industry have a 77 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,680 background which is on the arts side and the creative side of 78 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,640 fashion. And very few these days have a 79 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,800 background in the science and engineering side of of fashion. 80 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,800 And it used to be the case that, you know, big clothing retailers 81 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,440 had teams of scientists, everybody from Marks and 82 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,240 Spencer's to Debenhams had people who were experts in every 83 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,440 aspect of the science of the clothing that they produced. 84 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,280 And as things have got cheaper, they've had to get rid of those 85 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,800 experts. And most people now really don't 86 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,520 know that much about the science of it. 87 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,320 And there are a lot of people bluffing. 88 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,960 There are a lot of people outright just telling fibs. 89 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,320 And you know it. People go with the easy option. 90 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,680 And as as you alluded to, it took us nearly five years to 91 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,400 develop all of the different bits that went into this product 92 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,560 because everybody had stopped doing it. 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Simple things like the elastic that goes into the waistband, 94 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,480 you know the elastic in running shorts is elastane which is an 95 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,200 oil based polymer and nobody was making a natural rubber 96 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,040 waistband elastic. So that was my next question. 97 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,040 How do you deal with the stretch element that we need in 98 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,680 sportswear? Well so the stretch in 99 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,840 sportswear comes in various different guises you have you 100 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:53,480 have the mechanical stretch in the fabric as you understand. 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,040 So a a knitted jersey has is made of lots of interlocking 102 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,040 loops and when you pull them they stretch apart and when you 103 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,080 take the you know the force away they they relax. 104 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,880 Now that stretch has a certain amount of recovery which you 105 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,720 know for years and years and years was was fine because we 106 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,600 didn't know any better. Today, of course we have added 107 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,920 to that the kind of chemical stretch that you get within 108 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,920 something like Elastane where you've got, you know, polymer 109 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,880 chains being elongated and recovering, which gives you that 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,800 kind of tight, quick recovery that we've all got used to in 111 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,320 running tights, you know, cycling shorts, all of that sort 112 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,080 of stuff. At the moment, we don't have an 113 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,360 answer to that, that we don't have an answer to. 114 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,200 We don't have the money, the resources and all the rest of 115 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,560 it. But you know, you can do a 116 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,920 mechanical version of that. It just won't have the stretch. 117 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,240 You know, everybody used to run in, you know, early run Hill 118 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,520 Tracksters, which until the early 70s were leggings that 119 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,480 just didn't have any of that chemical stretch. 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,040 It was all mechanical and we were all fine with it, you know, 121 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,240 Nobody needed figure hugging, you know, bum tights, leggings. 122 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,040 Back then, we all kind of lived perfectly happily without them. 123 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,960 Until the Kardashian Kardashians came. 124 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,080 Until, until, you know, big juicy bums came into fashion and 125 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,200 we all wanted to show them off. But you know, we that is a 126 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,640 consumer thing. You know, we have to deal with 127 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,960 if we want to make this stuff go away and we need to make it go 128 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,000 away, we have to change the way we think about the clothes we 129 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,200 wear. But surely isn't there an 130 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,760 element of when you've got elastin or Lycra or whatever you 131 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,480 want to to call it, of the support that that gives an 132 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,560 athlete or a jogger it? It really makes very. 133 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,280 I mean this is the argument I think some people give, but you 134 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,640 have to look at the statistics. I mean the the the world record 135 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,960 for the 1500 meters from the point. 136 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,360 So SEBCO, I think 1980 Olympics. SEBCO won the gold medal in the 137 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,240 1980 Olympics wearing entirely natural clothing. 138 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,920 You know, there was no Elastane in anything that he wore then. 139 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,840 He set a world record then that today is only 3% faster, you 140 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,320 know, and that includes all the changes in nutrition, the 141 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,400 changes in training, everything else that you add in that will 142 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,160 also have improved those times. It's a minuscule change. 143 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,080 So actually the performance side of it is really not that great. 144 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,520 OK, I'm going to throw a slight spanner in the works there. 145 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,240 Us girls with bosoms, they need supporting. 146 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,320 They do when we're running when. You're bouncing up and. 147 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:30,160 Down. Thank you. 148 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,679 Yes, exactly. Yes, so. 149 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,320 It's a difficult one. Are there any of these big, big 150 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:41,320 fabric manufacturers? Are they working on the science 151 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,640 to help us get over this Lycra hurdle? 152 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:48,040 People are working on the science but it is not an easy 153 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,720 one to overcome. There are people are looking at 154 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,480 at firstly people are looking at plant based, plant based 155 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,080 elastics. I mean natural rubber is is 156 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,560 fantastic and you if you had the money and the and the and the 157 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:06,520 wherewithal to do it you could probably produce a good woven 158 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,640 you could probably produce a good textile that incorporated 159 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,640 natural rubber. But natural rubber is much more 160 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,960 expensive. I mean this is the problem. 161 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,880 We're also used to things being cheap. 162 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,640 Elastane is cheap because it's made of oil and that's abundant 163 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,040 and it's it's easy to come by if you have to go to start using 164 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,200 natural rubber and and you know think about the quantity of 165 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,200 athleisure clothing that we wear. 166 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,200 You know it is utterly ubiquitous. 167 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,400 So you know you watch girls going to school in the morning 168 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:35,200 they're all wearing a black puffer and a pair of black 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,840 leggings and that didn't used to be the case. 170 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,320 You know you've got to we we now need to find an incredible 171 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,280 amount of this material just to clothe everyday people people in 172 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,760 their everyday clothes. So that's become that's a real 173 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,280 issue but there are there are people working on it. 174 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,480 It is tricky and so far there are no there are no suitable 175 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,680 answers. But elastane is a real problem. 176 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:59,320 It just which it just doesn't decompose naturally or 177 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,720 biodegrade naturally. And even with chemical 178 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,160 intervention, it doesn't really break down either. 179 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,040 You just end up with this sort of soupy gluey slurry even if 180 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,360 you try and chemically break it down. 181 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,400 So all of that stretch clothing we're wearing, frankly, is an 182 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:16,000 absolute disaster for the natural world. 183 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,280 Yeah, I mean plastic is a big one because again, the amount of 184 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,160 clothing that we wear now, if if it's not as easy, just, you 185 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,920 know, it's not as easy as simply saying, right, well, we just, 186 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,880 you know, switch from using plastic to using natural 187 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,480 materials because they're just, there are not enough natural 188 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,560 materials on the planet to make the quantity of clothes that we 189 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,160 produce now. So we have to tie that in with a 190 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,720 massive reduction in what we buy which. 191 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,360 Brings me on onto my next point. I know you're busy with numerous 192 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,840 projects, but you're writing not one book, but two books. 193 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,480 Well, hopefully written. Oh. 194 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,120 Good. Yes, congratulations. 195 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,560 Yeah well that artists have a message from my publisher this 196 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,200 morning so very nearly written. So I've I've I've got two books 197 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,600 that will be out in the spring. One of them is very 198 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,440 straightforward. It is a book about bespoke 199 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,200 tailoring, so. Love it. 200 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,680 Is a book. It's sort of behind the scenes. 201 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,840 It's Savile Row. It's sort of, it's the real 202 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,240 stars of Savile Row, who are those people who produce the 203 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,680 clothes and also the people that produce the textiles and 204 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,440 everything else. So it's a sort of it's an homage 205 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,920 to all of those incredible Craftsman who are the people 206 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,560 that really make this world tick. 207 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,040 And it is also a detailed set of instructions, should you wish to 208 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,760 follow them, for how to make a shirt, a jacket, a pair of 209 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,880 trousers and a waistcoat, which nobody, I think actually has 210 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,880 ever done before. That's really beautiful because 211 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,560 it actually talks back to your passion for crafting and making 212 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,240 and all of that. Yeah, it is a it's a it. 213 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,840 It honestly has been an utterly horrendous process. 214 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:58,000 The last book which discussed the method used by several 215 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,280 tailors, was published by a magazine called the Taylor and 216 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,960 Cutter in the 1920s. I think it was 1926. 217 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,160 And it's instructions. I mean really it, you know, it's 218 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,600 a three, There's a three volume set of the kind of art of 219 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,440 bespoke tailoring and they're quite sought after and we've got 220 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,920 one in the shop. But you really need to be a 221 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,800 tailor to be able to follow the instructions. 222 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,640 I mean the instructions for making trousers are 6 pages long 223 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,200 you know and I think our instructions for making trousers 224 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:29,120 about 40 pages long and you know and it's it's you know we've 225 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,880 what I've done is is I've I've what I've I've we've documented 226 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,120 the entire process for one of our coat makers one of our 227 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,800 trouser makers one of our waistcoat makers and and and 228 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,320 Emma Willis very kindly let me muscle into her. 229 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,000 Shirt making. In in in Gloucester so we 230 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,360 followed their shirt making method. 231 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,280 So it's one particular person's method. 232 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,160 Every tailor on Savile Row, you know, every tailoring house will 233 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,040 employ multiple tailors, but each tailor will have a slightly 234 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,160 different method. So you know Chris who makes my 235 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,640 trousers, you know, the way he, the way he does, every single 236 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,760 part of that is particular to him, and it comes from the 237 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,560 person who taught him. He learns in the 1960s. 238 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:08,280 He's been. Wonderful. 239 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,960 And he's made some, you know, he's made trousers for, you 240 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,880 know, the most incredible array of people. 241 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,000 But it's it is it is a sort of celebration of the the craft of 242 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,200 bespoke tailoring. And if you like to sew and you 243 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,200 fancy having a go at hand making a jacket in in the Savile Row 244 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,760 method, you know. How inspiring. 245 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,560 Well, I hope so. As much as anything, I think it 246 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:35,440 is important to historically document this. 247 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,680 Craft. We are very bad in this country 248 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,640 at looking after our heritage crafts. 249 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,920 In Japan they have a A they they they are described as living 250 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,760 treasures. They have this idea of living 251 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,040 treasures and every ancient craft that they believe is 252 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,760 important to their cultural heritage is protected by law and 253 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,320 the government provides money to ensure that there is always a 254 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,720 master and an apprentice on every one of the old crafts that 255 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,560 they consider important. In this country we don't have 256 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,000 that. Luckily we have the Heritage 257 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,520 Craft Association, which King Charles is the the president, I 258 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,000 think. But that organization is a 259 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,880 private organization that requires charitable donations to 260 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,960 keep alive all of these amazing things. 261 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,400 And lots of them are very endangered, you know, things 262 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,440 like, you know, paper marbling and Armour, Japanning and sword 263 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,840 making. And I did a documentary last 264 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,720 year about the making of the uniform for the coronation. 265 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,000 And obviously those those uniforms are covered with 266 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,560 extraordinary gold wire embroidery. 267 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,240 But there is only one gold wire drawer left in the UK. 268 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,480 So when that person disappears, there will be no more gold wire 269 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,960 to make gold wire embroidery. So you know anybody listening 270 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,240 who has money in their pocket and wants to preserve an old 271 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,200 craft craft association? Needs it. 272 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,800 Needs it, but it should be it. Should be something that we as a 273 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,440 nation look after. You know, this is our cultural 274 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,240 making heritage and we we are a nation of extraordinary makers. 275 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,720 Yeah. So that's one book. 276 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,480 What's the other one? Are you allowed to? 277 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,640 Yeah, the. Other The other book is. 278 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,160 So that book is called the Savile Rose Suit. 279 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,080 The other book is called Less and it is essentially the 280 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,640 philosophy behind community clothing, which is really 281 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:31,760 straightforward, have fewer things, have better things and 282 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,120 make those things locally, supporting fantastic jobs for 283 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,120 people that really need them in all across the country. 284 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,400 And the the IT is, you know, it's effectively, it's the 285 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,120 founding principles of what we're about. 286 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,000 So it's a it's a it's a book that's about consumerism, it's 287 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,040 about the evolution of quality and the evolution of work. 288 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,640 You know, we used to, we used to employ lots of people in this 289 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,400 country making things and now we have outsourced all of that 290 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,600 making to other nations. And lots and lots of people are 291 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:06,920 really struggling for something to do. 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,480 And just reading a piece in the Times the other last week about 293 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:18,280 the amount of amount of young people requiring therapy because 294 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,560 they don't have, you know, they they don't have a satisfying 295 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,200 life. They don't leave school with 296 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,840 good qualifications, they don't have good work to go to. 297 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,760 You know, there were there are a lot of people that are being let 298 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,360 down by the kind of education system and you know our our 299 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,160 desire for cheaper and cheaper. Clothes. 300 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,040 And the thing that that frustrates me is the the lack of 301 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,160 looking after our beautiful hand, crafted or just 302 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,880 beautifully made with love, Our basic T-shirts, all of that. 303 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,680 Everything's got very disposable, yeah. 304 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,920 Everything has got incredibly disposable. 305 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,320 I mean, we only know, we know. You know, you only need to look 306 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,080 at how many pieces of clothing we make. 307 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,400 I mean the last year, a year before, I think, you know, there 308 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,880 were 100 billion pieces of clothing made. 309 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,040 On the planet I, it just sounds to me because actually, I think, 310 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,960 you know, part of who we are should be looking after what we 311 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,800 put on our bodies. Yeah, Well, I think. 312 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Almost everything, you know, I look around this, you know your 313 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,440 gorgeous flat and I see lots of things, you know, You know, it's 314 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,040 surrounded by high quality objects. 315 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:30,680 And you know, I think the we used to treasure all of the 316 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,480 things we owned. You know, we used to buy things 317 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,520 with great care. Even as, you know, when I was a 318 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,600 kid, because things were a little more expensive, we took 319 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,160 more time to choose them with great care. 320 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:46,280 You know, I would go to the same clothes shop 7 * 8 times, try 321 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,040 something on, go back the next Saturday, try it on again. 322 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,320 Think to myself, can I really afford it? 323 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,480 How often, how often am I going to wear it? 324 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,640 Those conversations we had in our own heads and everything. 325 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,160 And that was the same with, you know, mugs and tables and chairs 326 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,520 and everything that we everything that we bought, we 327 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,160 bought thoughtfully. And now because things are so 328 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,400 cheap, we no longer need to give any thought to them. 329 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,560 And so people are buying things, you know, with absolutely no 330 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,080 consideration. The, you know, you can buy a 331 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,680 piece of clothing now for less than the cost of a cup of 332 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,360 coffee. So why do you need to give it a 333 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,680 thought? And that is of course terrible 334 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,000 in all sorts of ways. And you know, there used to be, 335 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,560 we used to employ about eight and a half million people in 336 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,800 this country making all the everyday things that we have 337 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,680 around us. And for some reason we decided, 338 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,000 I think as a nation that that was somehow, you know, a thing 339 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,000 of the past. And, you know, we let all of 340 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,000 those jobs go. We outsource them to other 341 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,560 countries. And now we've got millions and 342 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,360 millions of people who are leaving school, you know, people 343 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,880 who may not be academically ready for university or they may 344 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,200 never be sort of the sort of person that wants to go to 345 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,840 university. Those people have have to have, 346 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,320 you know, we need to find good jobs for everyone. 347 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,320 And this stuff could be doing that. 348 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,000 And I bemoan the the time that we just did away with our 349 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,280 polytechnics. Because, you know, actually 350 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,040 making things, doing things can be such a rewarding career. 351 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,040 Not everyone has to go to university to get a degree in 352 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,520 God knows what. God knows what exactly. 353 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,320 We're here to talk about your personal style today. 354 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,840 Your likes, your dislikes. So I just wondered, coming here 355 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,080 to say, how did you decide what you were going to wear? 356 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,600 Well, I'm, I'm. I'm wearing. 357 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,960 I'm basically. I'm wearing what I wear every 358 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:35,720 day. I. 359 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,920 Am don't be through it. Well, I am. 360 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,280 Well, it's it's chilly today, so I'm wearing a pair of leather 361 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,960 boots. They are they are Red Wing. 362 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,120 They're made in in Minnesota by the original Red Wing boot 363 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,200 company. I'm wearing socks that were made 364 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,240 in South Wales. They are actually E tort socks 365 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,800 and I've probably had them. They're Navy blue. 366 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,840 I've probably had them. They're made by a phone called 367 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:08,000 Corgi in Amman Ford and they make they're the royal warrant 368 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,880 holder for socks, but they make amazing socks. 369 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,280 I'm wearing community clothing what what are called the 370 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,160 cameraman pants. Yeah, so. 371 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,280 Cameraman Pant is a pant that I saw one of the one of the 372 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,800 cameramen on Sewing bee the year before last was wearing this 373 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,480 Japanese workwear pant and that he bought in a shop in Tokyo. 374 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,920 And I really like them. So I took a photo of them and we 375 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,360 did a version of them for community clothing which we 376 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,080 launched last year and they were hugely successful for men and so 377 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,120 we did a version for women as well called the Camera Woman 378 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:45,880 Pant and they are just, they are a heavy, I think there are 320g 379 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,200 cotton Panama canvas construction and they've aged 380 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,920 really well. I mean I I these these were 381 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,680 actually a sample that I got off the line in August last year and 382 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,040 I've pretty much worn them every day since. 383 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,080 I'm also wearing I'm wearing a Navy jumper and a Navy T-shirt 384 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,160 so I I went up Navy blue. This jumper I I think I think I 385 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,000 put it on in November and I haven't taken it off since. 386 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,280 It's a big eight ply Shetland wool jumper. 387 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,680 It's made by William Locke who make jumpers for community 388 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,360 clothing. They're in Hoyk. 389 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,680 They make the Royal Regiment of Scotland jumpers. 390 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,560 Yes, because it it, well, it seems quite regimental. 391 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,400 It's got it's got suede patches on the elbow and the shoulder. 392 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,560 It's very similar to a jumper that we did for torts a few 393 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,960 years ago that Victoria Beckham bought for David for his 394 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,640 Christmas, which I was very pleased about. 395 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:44,120 It's just a really heavy, thick, chunky bomb proof jumper that 396 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,960 you know is is incredibly warm and you know it's got that sort 397 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,960 of loosey 80s sort of vibe to it. 398 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,360 It's very relaxed and I love it and when you know when it gets a 399 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,200 bit warmer I'll take it off and I'll put it back in the cupboard 400 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,880 and I'll get it out again in eight months time. 401 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,960 And that's kind of how I live with my wardrobe. 402 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,600 I sort of, I have things I wear all the time. 403 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,760 I have lots and lots of Navy crew necks. 404 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,440 So I have lots of Navy crew neck T-shirts, long sleeve T-shirts, 405 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:19,320 lightweight John Smedley knitted lightweight cotton crew neck 406 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,480 jumpers, mid weight jumpers, lambs, wool jumpers. 407 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,360 I mean, I mostly live in the same stuff all the time, which 408 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,560 makes life very easy because I take things off, I fold them up, 409 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,520 I put them down and I get up in the morning and. 410 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,960 Is it all your clothing made in Britain? 411 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,320 Almost all of it. I mean, my shoes are made in 412 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,080 America, yes, but I wear a lot of trickers too. 413 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,280 So if I'm not wearing Red Wings, I'm wearing trickers. 414 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,480 And I've got 5 pairs of trickers, two black pairs and 415 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,320 three different brown pairs, but all the same kind of heavy, you 416 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,960 know, commando. So actually I've got commando, 417 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 so, but I mean at least two of them have been resold. 418 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,520 Almost everything I wear is is I I know where everything comes 419 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,040 from. Everything I wear, I know it's 420 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,240 provenance. You're probably most visible 421 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,040 through your role in British Sewing B. 422 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,360 Would you say you have a judging uniform for that? 423 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,040 Well I'm mostly, I, yeah. I mean pretty much I, I I mostly 424 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,240 wear a jacket and trousers and I mostly wear a regular shirt and 425 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,560 mostly I wear a tie. But I yeah. 426 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,440 And if if I think the first time I didn't wear a tie people were 427 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,360 sort of up in arms on Twitter And then the first time I think, 428 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,840 yeah, I wear a long sleeve polo shirt in this coming series and 429 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,800 I imagine people will lose their minds. 430 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,400 I was going to ask, were the BBC very prescriptive? 431 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,720 BBC have nothing to say about what I wear at all apart from 432 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,240 that, annoyingly, I really can't wear much pattern because 433 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,840 digital cameras are terrible strobing and I think the the IT 434 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,920 they get worse as the technology gets better. 435 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,960 In inverted commas they get they get less able to cope with 436 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,320 patterns. So almost everything I wear is 437 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,680 just a shade or a texture. So you can't wear a beautiful 438 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,960 Prince of Wales check or no? No, no. 439 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,240 Just spinning on to Norton and Sons because you've you talked 440 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,320 about when you bought it, it didn't really have its own 441 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,320 identity. Yeah. 442 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,480 And I just would love to understand how you went about 443 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,320 creating that identity of an existing brand. 444 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,280 And yeah. And would you say its identity 445 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,360 was very it is very much who you are. 446 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,160 I think it's quite heavily tied to to to to to me personally. 447 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,680 I mean it it. I mean Norton's was interesting 448 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,480 because it had been in existence for 185 odd years when I took it 449 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,080 over and it had in different periods had strong identities. 450 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,400 There was a head cutter in the 1960s called John Granger who 451 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:06,080 took it in a very sort of preppy Hamptonian East Coast American 452 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,760 and he travelled a lot on the East Coast of the States and he 453 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,760 built a very big business over there and it was it sort of 454 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,400 exuded a sort of Hamptons charm and even the look of the shop 455 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,680 sort of felt a bit you know East Coast American more than it felt 456 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,480 London. But that had died away and 457 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,320 actually it had sort of lost its way and and I just wanted to 458 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,920 restore it to what it what it sort of did best which was be 459 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,840 just a a very good tailor's and I celebrated the fact that it 460 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,960 was small. I think the the prior the owner 461 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,160 prior to me Nick had had sort of shield away from talking about 462 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,960 its size because he felt somehow embarrassed that we only made a 463 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,600 few 100 suits a year and I thought that was that was that 464 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,920 was part of the charm of it. We also we we also instituted a 465 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,960 policy or I also instituted a policy of only using British 466 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,840 made clothes and talking about the stories and the provenance. 467 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,880 And it was a big part of Norton's was you know we you 468 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,440 could come in and you could buy a Tweed from you know from us 469 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,760 from somebody like our Dalanish on the Isle of Mull where we you 470 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,160 know I I've met the sheep that the wool had come from and you 471 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,000 know the Weaver worked on the in in a weaving shed on the farm 472 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,880 and it was you know we could tell the story of these textiles 473 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,560 and of course you know in the back in the workshop were the 474 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,840 people cutting and sewing the clothes. 475 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:29,760 So you know, provenance is a really important part of how we 476 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,680 build quality around objects. And again, it's sort of it's, 477 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,240 it's entirely the same now with community clothing. 478 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,120 You know, I can tell you at community clothing, you know 479 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,320 where all of our products come from. 480 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,200 You know, I know where the textiles have come from. 481 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,800 I know in the case of this jumper where the wool has come 482 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,920 from and where it was spun and where it was knitted and 483 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,880 finished. You know, it's it's being able 484 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,760 to attach a story of of where and who has made something is 485 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,480 incredibly important to our understanding of quality. 486 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,440 I mean the reason we buy handmade ceramics and you know, 487 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,480 I'm looking at a cup on your table over there. 488 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,480 You know, you can tell that that is a handmade cup and you know 489 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,320 that will have been made by a an individual craftsperson. 490 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,600 And I've got cups in my house and you know that. 491 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,920 I mean, most of the cups in my kitchen are handmade because I 492 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,680 really like handmade ceramics. But you know, I I know who the 493 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,600 maker is. And you know, you can see the 494 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,640 marks that their hands have made. 495 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,200 And not only are they better quality objects, because you 496 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,880 know, they will be their integrity, physical integrity 497 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,080 will be higher. But understanding who has made 498 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,720 them gives them more value to us, makes them more precious to 499 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,200 us, allows us to feel closer to them and therefore increases 500 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,960 their value and makes us want to cherish them and keep them. 501 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,000 You know if you've got something where you have no, I no idea at 502 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,320 all where it's come from, how can you possibly feel a 503 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,840 connection to it. And I think that is what is 504 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,640 important. It was important for Norton's, 505 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,960 it was important for Torts and it's equally important for 506 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,880 community clothing because quality is everything you know 507 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:11,400 we and and a big part of quality is, is where and how it's it is. 508 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,800 It is crafted. Yeah, I I think so true. 509 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,640 And in terms of the the style, did you, did you find yourself 510 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,040 reducing the offer of Norton? 'S well we just so, so. 511 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,120 My first head cutter at Norton's was a guy called John Kent and 512 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,920 John had a particular style and we had this one fantastic coat 513 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,680 maker called Wally Pattendon who had been in the business for a 514 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,360 long, long time since the 70s. And between John and Wally, they 515 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,040 made me my first single Breasted coat at Norton's. 516 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,920 And it had a very particular, you know, it had a very 517 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,400 particular proportion. It had a very particular shape 518 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,680 to it, certain amount of roping on the sleeve head. 519 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,800 You know, the the suppression at the waist was was just enough, 520 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,880 but not too much. It had a sort of natural natural 521 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,080 chest. It wasn't overly chesty. 522 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,040 And the lapel shape that had this ever so subtle kind of 523 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,600 round on the lapel that was Wally's pattern. 524 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,160 You know the individual. So the cutter will cut certain 525 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,360 parts of your clothing but the Taylor coat maker, trouser 526 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,960 maker, waistcoat maker will add certain bits to it and and that 527 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,360 that one of that pattern of Wally's for that lapel plus 528 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,640 John's cutting became the blueprint for the Norton and 529 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,360 Sons style and that was that became sad. 530 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,920 But, you know, part of developing the brand was was was 531 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,320 good luck. You know, partly it was me, 532 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,640 Yeah, I said this is what we want to do. 533 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,640 It's a simple offer. We're small. 534 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,320 We understand where everything comes from. 535 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,520 But also, you know, we got got very lucky, got introduced to 536 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,880 Kim Jones, who ended up coming back and having us make pieces 537 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,200 for his catwalk shows for a couple of years. 538 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,520 And through Kim, we got to meet Alexander McQueen, who became a 539 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,880 good customer, and Christopher Kane, who we've made clothes for 540 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,720 now for over a dozen years, made for his collections and made for 541 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,080 his, made for him personally. You know, we've we've made from 542 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,560 Christian Louboutin, became a big customer. 543 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,120 And I mean all sorts of people, the lots of young London Fashion 544 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,160 designers kind of came to us and that became part of who we were. 545 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,760 And did any of working with any of those designers? 546 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,520 Did any of their requests or style rub off on you personally, 547 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,720 do you think? No, it didn't. 548 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,280 No. I mean, I was very clear about 549 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,160 what I liked and what I didn't like. 550 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,360 And actually most of what we were doing with those guys was, 551 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,560 was women's wear anyway. I mean, obviously we were making 552 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,000 clothes for them personally. I mean we made, we made quite a 553 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,240 lot for for for Lee McQueen and actually he took off from me, 554 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,000 which was really nice. You know, he was one of the 555 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,320 world's most, I mean one of the most talented designers of all 556 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,880 time. And he's asking me what it what 557 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,400 I I would do. The collaborative process in 558 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,200 design is just is so inspiring, isn't it? 559 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,360 I often talk about clothes being our armour, you know, in terms 560 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,280 of how we project ourselves to the world and sometimes how we 561 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,840 cocoon ourselves from the world. And I know that you sadly lost 562 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,440 your father before time during COVID and I just wondered if 563 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,920 your approach to dressing changed during that time. 564 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:38,400 I always really liked the way my dad dressed and he he and my mom 565 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,800 were both. I mean, they didn't have huge 566 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,000 wardrobes, but what they again, it was, it was about a few good 567 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,920 things. And my dad my dad had lots of 568 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,080 suits in the wardrobe that were bought and quite a lot that that 569 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,240 were bought second hand and then he had altered for him. 570 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,320 So I and I've still got those and I, you know, I treasure 571 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,920 them. There are things that that that 572 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,120 were his that I wear now that that are the most precious 573 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,840 things I have. And I also you know I have AI 574 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,920 have an old sweatshirt that my granny bought me. 575 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,320 She worked well into her late 70s possibly even into her early 576 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,040 80s. She kept working and she wanted 577 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,280 to think. She she worked for Citizens 578 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,400 Citizens Advice Bureau. One day a week she worked for 579 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,480 the Duke of the Clue, doing tours of his house. 580 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,840 And then she worked for one of the charity shops in Galashiels 581 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,760 and this sweatshirt came in and she bought it for me and she 582 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,480 thought I'd like it. And I still, I mean, I nearly 583 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,240 wore it today, but I'm in Navy blue. 584 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,080 But it's a sort of plum coloured 80s sweatshirt that she bought. 585 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,200 So, you know, all of those things that that have stories 586 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,080 attached and sentimental memories attached to them are 587 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,000 are important. And my dad's clothes. 588 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,400 Yeah, I've got loads. I mean, I've got lots of ties of 589 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,520 his and certainly I've got his old dinner suit. 590 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,200 That is absolutely bomb proof. It's like a sort of 22 oz. 591 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,560 Barrack, I was going to say they were heavy and thick, weren't 592 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:00,520 they? Yeah, I've got one of his. 593 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880 I've got one of his British warm overcoats. 594 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,040 I've got evening tails, which of course I very rarely wear. 595 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,520 I've got morning tails, which of course also very rarely wear. 596 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,480 But I've got, yeah, I mean his cummerbund, the dinner suit, 597 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,160 Even though I wear a new, I'm mostly wearing newer, lighter 598 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,520 dinner suit. I wear my dad's cummerbund 599 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,760 often. The suit, my dinner suit is a 600 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,920 three piece with waistcoat, but quite often I prefer to wear a 601 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,160 cummerbund than the thing. But I've also got various dress 602 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,280 waistcoats that were his, which sometimes I can substitute in. 603 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,560 And you know, I've got his old Marcella white tie, which I 604 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,840 think I've probably worn about twice in my life. 605 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,040 But my commend ball at Oxford, I had to, you know, it was a white 606 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,520 tie ball. So I've worn it for that. 607 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,280 Now your Instagram handle is Patrick Grant ISM. 608 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,520 Would you say you have any isms in your approach to how you 609 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,440 dress or how you style yourself? I. 610 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,360 I don't know. I mean, I I think everything 611 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,160 that I do in clothes now, my my style has got simpler and 612 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,800 simpler and simpler. I I remember a time when I was 613 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,800 in my 20s where I sort of worked out what things really worked 614 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,320 for me in terms of the cuts of trousers and what I like to wear 615 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,960 and and but as I've got older the the it's got simpler and 616 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,760 simpler and simpler So I don't know what the ISM would be but 617 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:28,159 sort of it's not quite minimalism but it's definitely I 618 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,080 mean I guess probably it is actually. 619 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,760 I'm just looking at my I'm wearing everything is Navy blue 620 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,120 apart from my shoes. But I was a big actually it was 621 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,120 a big John Paulson fan as a as a as a early 20 year old. 622 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,480 Yeah. And that his big book minimum 623 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,920 was it. Minimalism or or minimal? 624 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,520 Minimum. Minimum. 625 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,120 Well, I can't remember what it's called now anyway, but it maybe 626 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,360 it. Was called minimum. 627 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,920 Minimum I think. She was probably got it 628 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,080 somewhere here. We have, yeah. 629 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:05,360 But I was very very much very much inspired by by that and and 630 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,920 I I nearly became an architect. I sort of once I'd finished my 631 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,640 undergrad engineering degree I got AI went back to night school 632 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,080 and did a level art and got a place to study architecture at 633 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,400 Liverpool. But I didn't take it up. 634 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:19,560 It's always been sort of simple shapes. 635 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,200 It's always been about shapes and silhouettes and and and and 636 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,080 texture more than it is about pattern. 637 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,440 I I, I I don't wear a lot of pattern. 638 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,400 Do you have a style icon? No, I don't think I do. 639 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,280 I mean, there are certain people whose style I really like, but 640 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,440 it's mostly people who've got a kind of a, a a, a clear and 641 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,040 distinct sort of individual style that doesn't look like 642 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:52,040 it's built by somebody else. If someone were to describe your 643 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,600 style in three words, your style DNA, how would you what would 644 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,040 you want those 3 words to be? I think it would be, I mean it 645 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:07,480 would definitely be simple and it would probably be, it would 646 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,280 probably be Navy because that would be ridiculous not to 647 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,840 include that word. But I think it's it's about it's 648 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,320 it's quality. You know, I think I think you 649 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,080 can see in the things that I wear that they are that they are 650 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,840 well made and and I care very much about that. 651 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:31,080 I like things that age well. I like, you know, the shoes, you 652 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,760 know, they not only do they get more comfortable, but they, they 653 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,960 get more character the more you wear them. 654 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,560 You know, I think especially men's shoes, which tend to be a 655 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,600 bit heavier, you know, the more you wear them and Polish them, 656 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,680 they develop these interesting, beautiful patinas about them. 657 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,040 And it's the same with, you know, it's the same with good 658 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,000 denim. It's the same with good canvas 659 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,480 in a pair of trousers. I mean you're you're that twill 660 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,400 that you're wearing. You know things good things age 661 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,640 well and I think you can see that in good clothes. 662 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,040 You know, if you you know I think what's really sad about 663 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,560 modern clothing is that most modern clothing hasn't has 664 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,400 nothing in it that will age in any interesting way. 665 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,200 In fact, the, you know, the the time that most modern clothing 666 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,040 is at its best is the moment before it's even been unpacked 667 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,600 and put on a hanger. Because it doesn't even sit well 668 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,640 on a hanger anymore and, you know, let alone wash well and 669 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,840 wear well. Would you say you had a worst 670 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,080 fashion moment at any? Point I mean, some terrible 671 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,280 ones. Yeah, absolutely. 672 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,880 I experimented, you know, wildly as a late teen and in my early 673 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,160 20s. But thankfully I grew up before 674 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,400 the digital, so there may be photographs in the bottom of 675 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,040 kind of cardboard boxes tucked away in people's cupboards, but 676 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,720 there's nothing on the Internet to prove it. 677 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,360 But yeah. Are we shocked, so relieved 678 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,760 about that? Yeah, I mean I remember you know 679 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,480 when I was I, you know I was AI was a sort of I was I was 16 in 680 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,480 1988 which was you know the sort of good one revival of the kind 681 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,800 of acid house era and the start of all that kind of Manchester. 682 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,200 And I was wearing 22 inch bell bottom jeans with Paisley 683 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,960 hoodies and all, all manner of utter horrors. 684 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,000 But you know, but it was good at the time. 685 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,600 It was great, you know. And did your hair did what? 686 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,840 What was your hair? Like, I mean, I had all sorts of 687 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,760 things. I mean, I I did have, I had very 688 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,000 long hair at one point. I had completely shorn. 689 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,680 I mean my hair's very short today, but you know, I had hair 690 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,560 this short that was kind of Arctic silver and a kind of 691 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,240 Violet silver. I lived in San Francisco for a 692 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,760 while and and hung out with a lot of lot of hairdressers from 693 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,000 Sassoons over there and they did fun things to my hair And yeah, 694 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,320 I wore a sarong years before David Beckham wore. 695 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,040 So I wandered round, wandered round Savile San Francisco in 696 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,160 the early 90s wearing a sarong. And you know, I had fun with 697 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,640 clothes, but you know, luckily there's very little evidence of 698 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,320 it. I can remember some of mine, 699 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,200 which I won't talk about. Oh, no, we're not. 700 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:10,160 This is about you, not me. I always think as men get older 701 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,560 they get more distinguished and I know you're in the face of the 702 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,400 camera all the time. Would you ever consider any form 703 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,800 of age prevention? I've actually, I've. 704 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,400 I don't know. I really don't. 705 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:29,680 I mean, I, I I actually, I mean for years I used, I used a bit 706 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,680 of moisturizer and I did use it fairly routinely and. 707 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,520 That sounds like past tense. Yeah, well, only 'cause I I used 708 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,600 to be. I was an ambassador for Sicily 709 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,800 for a while and they used to send me lots of good stuff and 710 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,880 and then all the people that I dealt with disappeared and it's 711 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,560 harder to get stuff out of them anymore. 712 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,920 And it was. I got used to this incredible 713 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,880 quality of stuff that's sort of too expensive to buy for 714 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,480 yourself for me anyway, because I still, I mean, I despite years 715 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,360 in this industry, I probably earn, I earn a lot less now. 716 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:07,360 Than I did in my mid 20s when I had a well paid job in a normal. 717 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,240 But loving it far more but. Loving it far more, but I mean, 718 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,840 I my skin care regime really kind of starts, starts from the 719 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,800 inside and works out. So I'm I'm pretty healthy. 720 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:21,080 I I drink almost no alcohol at all. 721 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,520 I mean, I probably have two or three drinks a year and maybe 722 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,000 have a glass of champagne. Impressive patch. 723 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,440 Yeah, I don't smoke. I exercise pretty well. 724 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,120 I I've I've been doing intermittent fasting for a 725 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,960 couple of well like 4 years I guess. 726 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,920 Now it's brilliant, isn't? It. 727 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,800 Yeah. And and my skin is in good 728 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,000 shape, so. So actually I don't need to do 729 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,120 and I don't mind being Gray. I mean the Gray, the grayness in 730 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,320 the face. Luckily my hair's starting to go 731 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,120 a little bit Gray, but not that bad. 732 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,000 But I don't mind it. Let's talk about travel, yeah. 733 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,880 Do you have a particular airport look? 734 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,720 Well, it's the same, it's. The same you're in it. 735 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:04,800 I'm in it. I'm in it. 736 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,320 I don't. Well that's the nice thing. 737 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,800 I've sort of worked out a a a uniform for life that does for 738 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,560 most things. You know in the summer it's you 739 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:18,200 know I've I've got so I've got these really great E tots kind 740 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,840 of they were they were sort of 50s naval short, big, pleated 741 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,680 with these really nice pocket flaps on the back pockets. 742 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,720 And I've got a couple of pairs of those that do me and they're 743 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:31,760 Navy blue. Obviously I've got a couple of 744 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,360 pairs of those. We now do them for community 745 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:39,880 clothing as well. But so yeah, but I wouldn't 746 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,720 travel in a pair of shorts but I mean all my shoes are 747 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,400 comfortable. I don't feel like, oh, I need to 748 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,480 wear joggers on the plane because actually all my clothes 749 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,560 are really comfortable. What luggage do you use? 750 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,560 Luggage wise, I've got, I've actually got a Really. 751 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,800 I've got two really old Moogie canvas holders. 752 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,400 One yeah, which. Both of which are kind of hand 753 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,000 luggage compliant. Even the small hand luggage 754 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,360 compliance size. And that's what I take most of 755 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,000 what most of my packing is. Books, usually on holiday. 756 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,880 Great camera books, a few bits of clothing. 757 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,440 If you didn't own the Taylors, Norton and Sons, which Taylor 758 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:19,960 would be your favorite, do you think? 759 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,840 I don't know. It's an interesting question 760 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,400 actually. I mean, I do really like 761 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,320 Norton's because of its, but it's because it looks still. 762 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,080 It looks quite a lot like like how I would like it to look, but 763 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,800 there are lots. I mean the lovely thing about 764 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,400 Savile Row is that the street is filled with brilliant with 765 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,520 brilliant tailors. I think in terms of the look, 766 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,160 there was a period when Kilgour's look before Karlo went 767 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,760 too mad, where their look was really just spot on. 768 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,200 But I really love Henry Poole like Simon and the guys at Pools 769 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,000 are brilliant. It's a, you know, they're 770 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,200 lovely. Huntsman is great. 771 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:03,320 I mean, Anderson Shepherd is not my style, that kind of Cardi 772 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,800 Drapey thing, just not my bag. But you know, it's beautifully 773 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,960 executed. It's not. 774 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,560 I mean, they're all really good. This is the great thing about 775 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,080 Savile Row. You've got, you've got sort of 776 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,160 something for everyone and you know, you go where your style 777 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,840 go, where you feel comfortable because everybody makes 778 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,000 brilliant quality stuff on that street. 779 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,360 Yeah. I mean outside the row, is there 780 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,160 a particular brand that you admire? 781 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,280 You know, there really isn't. I mean, there are people. 782 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,320 I mean, there are certain brands that I always that I used to 783 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,240 like a great deal, but they've sort of strayed away from the 784 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:38,920 formula. I like brands that make their 785 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,880 own stuff. Actually in the book that I'm 786 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,560 that I'm in, in the book that I'm doing, I've got a I'm doing 787 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,880 an appendix of all the people that make stuff and sell it 788 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,880 themselves, sort of artisan makers. 789 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,560 There are very few of those, but I like, you know, I like, I like 790 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,640 people that make things. I mean, lots of the knitwear 791 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,520 guys sell their own stuff and I really like, right, Really like 792 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,160 that. Do you buy vintage? 793 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,000 Yeah. And where? 794 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,680 Where are your favorite? Horns today I So there's a 795 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,440 couple of places there's a place in Brooklyn that I that for 796 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,720 years and years I've bought stuff where Nick Sullivan at 797 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:14,040 American Esquire put me onto it when he had sort of been banned 798 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,080 from buying any more clothing by his wife. 799 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,640 He sort of he's like, right. I can tell you about this place 800 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,800 now because I don't need it anymore, but I'm not going to 801 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,560 say what it is, but it's in Brooklyn and it's amazing. 802 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,360 It's run by Japanese, a couple of Japanese people. 803 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,840 I like Armstrong's in Edinburgh. I buy bits and pieces from them. 804 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,360 They've now got a number of shops. 805 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,280 They, I mean, Armstrong's has been around since I was a kid. 806 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,480 I bought stuff from Armstrong's when I was a teenager. 807 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,640 And you know, 40 years later, it's still, it's still going. 808 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,200 In fact, it's got more stores now than it did when I was 809 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,000 younger. eBay. I buy tons on eBay. 810 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,760 I'm always on eBay. But everything in my house is 811 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,080 from eBay. You know, I I very rarely buy 812 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,120 new stuff and I buy stuff from auction rooms. 813 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,600 And yeah, I mean lots Rd. down the road, you. 814 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,800 Know it's a good one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, there's bits in my 815 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,080 house from lots road and. Let's turn on to some quick fire 816 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,320 questions. So these are going to be quick 817 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,120 answers. OK. 818 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,040 All right, fine. What fashion advice would you 819 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:16,400 give to your 20 year old self? Don't buy those really crusty 820 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,560 mew mew shoes. You'll you won't wear them that 821 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,000 much. Which fashion trend would you 822 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,680 most like to see make a comeback? 823 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,280 Oh, men's like peacockism in men's is kind of making a it's 824 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,760 making a comeback. Anyway, that's sort of late 60s, 825 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,480 early 70s thing. What fashion or beauty trend 826 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,160 would you consign to room one O 1? 827 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,520 I don't know. I'm not a big fan of the Goatee. 828 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:41,560 Let's put that in there. Great. 829 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,120 Last impulse buy. Again, I just don't really buy 830 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,000 much new clothing. Well, that's great impulse. 831 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:51,640 Oh, I'll tell you what it was all right. 832 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,840 I bought a pair of amazing hand knitted socks at Kew Gardens at 833 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,680 the Winter Lights thing. They've got a they've got a gift 834 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:03,960 shop at Kew Gardens and these were. 835 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,360 I bought a pair for myself and a pair for my girlfriend. 836 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,440 Big thick, hand knitted, chunky, multi colored socks. 837 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,880 I can't remember the name of the brand, but they they sell them 838 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,240 in the Kew Garden Shop. They're amazing. 839 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:22,640 Brilliant views on tattoos. I don't have any and I suspect 840 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,760 people will come to regret them in 1520 years time. 841 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,800 Grooming or well-being treatment? 842 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,840 You couldn't give up. Yeah, none of that really. 843 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,160 I mean, I get yeah, I get a £10 haircut from passerini's in 844 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,680 Blackburn. You're fantastically low 845 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,560 maintenance, high end or High Street. 846 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,400 High end. Crocs cute or puke? 847 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,880 I'm not a Crocs fan. Birkenstocks or Brooks? 848 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,600 Oh, I like both. I can't. 849 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,560 Yeah, both are a big part of my wardrobe. 850 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,240 Sports Lux or rock'n'roll? I don't know. 851 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,760 I think probably sports lux. Savile Row or jeans. 852 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,680 Savile Row. Dinner jacket. 853 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,760 What else I can say to that one? Dinner jacket black, white or 854 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,520 color? Black. 855 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,360 Well, actually, midnight blue. I was going to say I bet you're 856 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:13,440 a Navy blue dinner. Jacket. 857 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,520 Yeah, very midnight blue. My my new ones, my old, my old 858 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,400 one, My dad's old one is was black. 859 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,360 But yeah, both of the contemporary ones I've got are 860 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,400 midnight. Double breasted. 861 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,360 Single breasted. What double? 862 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,360 I think I wear more double than single, I think. 863 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,800 Cargos or chinos? Well, I wear these cameraman 864 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,040 pants. They're probably more like a 865 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,600 cargo than a Chino. Trend or style? 866 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,240 Style. Colour or monochrome? 867 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,920 Well, mono Blue. Pattern or plain, plain hoarder 868 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,600 or editor. No, I'm quite an editor, yeah. 869 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,080 Charity shop. That's. 870 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,240 I mean, that's probably a lie, actually, because I've got so 871 00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,800 many pieces of clothes in my archive, but they're not really. 872 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,880 They're sort of work. Do you separate your archive out 873 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,760 well? My archive just ends up, or my 874 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,760 clothes end up going in and then just disappearing And then, you 875 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,040 know, six years later, I'll be like, oh, there's that coat. 876 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,520 I wondered where that had gone. Charity shop or resale? 877 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,000 Charity shop? Yeah, Make your make your old 878 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,480 stuff do good for some people. Boxers or briefs? 879 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,360 Briefs, budgie smugglers or board shorts? 880 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,160 Budgies. Beanie or baseball cap? 881 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,600 Beanie Far more than a baseball cap, yeah. 882 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,000 I'm finally. I don't mind either. 883 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,840 At the end of the day, what do you or don't you wear in bed? 884 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,720 I don't. Patrick, such fun having you 885 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,160 here talking all things fashion and style. 886 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,920 I could have chatted all afternoon, but thank you for 887 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:44,960 your time. My pleasure.