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When you started, did you sort 
of create your brand values? 

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I think when I started I was 22,
so I didn't have a clue what I 

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didn't even, I don't think I'd 
ever heard the term brand 

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values. 
I think our brand values at the 

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time were just having as much 
fun as possible, going out as 

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much as we could. 
Henry Holland, the fashion brand

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went into administration during 
COVID. 

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It did. 
It's a tough moment, though. 

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The toughest part was the 18 
months prior. 

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Do you miss fashion at all? 
I don't miss it because I enjoy 

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it in a completely different way
now. 

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Obviously the fashion world is 
in a in probably one of the most

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complex moments it's ever been 
in. 

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I'd just love to hear your take 
on that. 

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Your childhood best friend was 
supermodel Agnes Teen. 

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Do you think you had an effect 
on each other's style? 

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I have a really bad habit. 
I love shoes. 

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I'm obsessed with shoes. 
So I'll often meet someone, look

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at their face, then look at 
their shoes and then back to 

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their face. 
But that looks like this. 

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I look like I'm like literally 
looking you up and down, like 

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I'm being really rude. 
So what are their shoes telling 

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you? 
Today I'm going on a style 

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journey with the extraordinary, 
eccentric and truly joyful 

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British designer and creative 
director, Henry Holland. 

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Hello and welcome, Henry. 
Apologies for my voice in 

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advance. 
Oh. 

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It's very sexy, sultry. 
It's perfect for a Tuesday 

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morning. 
Thank you for coming. 

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It's great to have you here. 
Thank you for having me. 

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You've been on quite the journey
from journalist to fashion 

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designer to ceramicist to all 
things interiors. 

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That's a lot to unpack. 
It is, and I'm trained in none 

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of them. 
No, I, yeah, I studied 

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journalism that got my degree in
journalism and then I used it 

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briefly. 
I worked in teen magazines for a

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couple of years, which was so 
much fun before starting my 

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T-shirts and then later my brand
Hats of Holland. 

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And then you did these fantastic
rhyming T-shirts. 

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The rhyming couplets. 
Rhyming couplets. 

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Yes. 
I just wondered how much of that

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was because of your journalistic
training. 

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Definitely. 
I mean, for me it felt like an 

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evolution from, you know, 
writing in magazines about 

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clothes and then writing on 
clothes and then creating and 

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designing clothes. 
But I think from the outside, 

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people didn't really see it as 
such. 

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But also I think the thing that 
really helped me was an 

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understanding around 
communication and the importance

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of that in the industry. 
How to talk to the press, how to

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create something that generates 
traction, how to, you know, 

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release something and 
communicate that properly and 

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how to get press on things. 
Because I'd come from that side,

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albeit a very different, you 
know, not the high fashion world

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by any means, but they 
understood. 

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Same. 
Principle and I understood, you 

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know, the the logistics of how 
to do that and also just I was I

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was always very commercially 
minded. 

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So the before I even took my 
T-shirts to any store, I mean, 

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the first store we sold them 
with was Dover Street Market. 

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It's a good. 
Place to start not. 

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Bad is it? 
Yeah. 

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And I think Browns, can't 
remember which was first Dover 

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Street and Browns. 
And but before I even did that, 

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I had a a PayPal link on my 
Myspace page to sort of sell 

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them direct to consumer, which 
that which was way before, you 

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know, direct to consumer was 
ever even a phrase. 

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So I was quite commercially 
minded. 

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And I think it mostly was born 
out of a lack of confidence. 

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You know, I didn't think that 
any store would ever want to 

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sell these. 
So I thought I'd have to find a 

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way of getting them out there 
myself. 

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And when I mention PayPal links 
on my Myspace now, to anyone 

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who's younger on my team or any 
interns in the past, they'd like

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look at me. 
How old are you? 

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Sorry, what? 
What's my sense? 

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So it really gives you a moment 
in time for when they launched, 

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which was 2006. 
But that's so amazing because I,

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I mean, do do you lecture at all
to students? 

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Because I I think. 
Officially I think. 

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That's what's truly missing. 
Is this OK? 

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It's one thing to have an 
amazing product, but how are you

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communicating it and selling it?
The fashion education in this 

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country is second to none. 
We all know that it's incredible

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and we've produced some of the 
best designers in the world time

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and time again for for many, 
many years. 

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But I still think there is a 
kind of a slight gap in the 

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education from a lot of people 
that would come through our 

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doors as interns, you know, 
whatever area that they wanted 

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to go in, whether that was, you 
know, production assistants or, 

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you know, design assistants who 
would never even have heard the 

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term of a line sheet or, you 
know, how to kind of 

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commercially price a collection.
It's just there's just a lot of 

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things that you tend to have to 
learn on the job. 

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And I let everything on the job,
you know, which, you know, never

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had any fashion training. 
So I feel that that was, in some

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ways, a bit of a gift. 
No one had ever told me how to 

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do anything, but no one had ever
told me how not to. 

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And I feel like that was really,
you know, what allowed me to 

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kind of figure out a way on my 
own that worked for me and my 

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brand, rather than me being kind
of have these preconceived ideas

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that, you know, a lecturer had 
kind of built into me. 

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Like this is how you must do it.
You must develop your, you know,

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aesthetic language and, and then
and then later turn that into 

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something more commercialized, 
which is sort of tends to be how

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people would go through during 
their fashion education. 

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I didn't have that bit. 
So I had to be making money from

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day one. 
You didn't. 

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Get much more commercial than 
the slogan T-shirt. 

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But I love the commercialisation
of that and the commercial 

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understanding and savvy. 
Yeah. 

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And then I think there was 
points for even for me, like at 

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the beginning when, you know, so
many brands would come to us and

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ask me to do rhyming couplets 
for them. 

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I think I did some for the 
Eurostar. 

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I think I did some for 
Coca-Cola. 

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We definitely did some stuff 
with extra chewing gum. 

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At one point I felt like an 
advertising copywriter because I

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was literally just writing strap
lines for all of these brands. 

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But then it was kind of after I 
first did a fashion show with 

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Ludi Kennedy at Fashionist that 
I really realised that I wanted 

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to take it further than just 
T-shirts. 

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What was the most extraordinary 
brand you were approached by to 

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do a rhyming couplet or person? 
I mean, a few pop stars came to 

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me and asked me to do some for 
them like I did some for like 

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this rapper at the time called 
Lady Sovereign. 

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I don't know if you remember 
her. 

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I definitely. 
I think I was asked to do some 

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for Jamelia as were. 
You allowed to tell us what they

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were I. 
Can't remember I'm afraid. 

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But then you you did a lot of 
collaborations and you were very

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commercially minded and so the 
collaborations funded the rest 

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of the business. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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The fashion, the collaborations 
funded the business. 

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And also I I used those as a 
real education and a real big 

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part of my education. 
Every time I partnered with a 

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bigger brand that was more 
established, that had a, a 

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distribution network, I would 
sit in those meetings and go 

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through those processes and 
absorb all the information about

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how they got their product out 
to, you know, international 

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markets or, you know, I did an 
eyewear collaboration quite 

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early, early on with a brand 
called The Specs and they were 

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based in Australia. 
And I learnt so much from those 

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guys because they were just 
amazing people, but also because

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they, they're positioning on the
global map just meant that they 

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look at the world from a 
different place. 

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So our, our initial kind of 
outreach to sort of global 

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markets would always be look at 
Europe 1st and then over to the 

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States and then the Far East and
Asia and then maybe Australasia 

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at the end. 
Whereas coming from Australia, 

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their, their first kind of port 
of call would be the Asian 

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market and the Far East and, and
then later further afield. 

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And so I just learnt so much 
about, you know, global markets 

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from from that. 
And it also allowed me to work 

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in different categories. 
You know, I had a small, I mean 

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the biggest my team ever got to 
was about 2025 people. 

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So, you know, to produce a 
hosiery line or to produce 

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footwear or swimwear or all of 
these like areas that I wanted 

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to provide for my customer, I 
wouldn't have had the money or 

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the team or the manpower to 
actually like design, develop, 

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distribute all of those things. 
And so the collaborations 

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allowed me to do that. 
And I still do that now with 

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with interiors, you know, I 
still see that huge value in 

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collaboration. 
But back to fashion 

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collaborations, were there any 
that you would dream of doing 

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that you didn't do? 
That I didn't do. 

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Yeah, I'm sure there'll be 
hundreds, hundreds and hundreds 

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off the top of my head. 
I mean, really early on we did 

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something with like it was 
Levi's. 

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It was like anyone that was like
really iconic in that area, you 

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know. 
So like a denim thing with 

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Levi's was really quite special.
I would have loved to have done 

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a sportswear collaboration. 
So you know, one of the one of 

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the big guys like a Nike or an 
Adidas I think would have been 

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incredible. 
And how did the collaboration 

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process work? 
Did you approach them, they 

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approach you, or a combination? 
A combination. 

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Every time was different really.
And each deal is, you know, I 

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learned so much about 
contracting and, you know, kind 

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of minimum guarantees and 
Commission rates and all of 

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those things as I went through 
these processes, each one was 

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different. 
And sometimes you'd have an idea

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about wanting to work, say, in 
swimwear. 

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And so you'd approach, you know,
a company and see if they would 

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be keen. 
So it was a challenge to go to 

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someone with an idea and then 
ask them to pay for it. 

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So the ideal would be you were 
approached and then you can name

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your prize. 
And did you have a middleman? 

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I did. 
I had several over the years in 

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different ways. 
I worked with agencies, I worked

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with kind of individuals that 
would help me, but I was always 

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very hands on. 
I was quite, I think I was quite

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00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,360
annoying to those, those people 
because I very much was involved

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in most parts of the process. 
And knowing your value. 

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I'm not great at knowing my 
value. 

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It depends who you ask. 
When I'm kind of in the 

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negotiation myself, I'm not as 
good at knowing the value of 

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00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,160
something because I get so 
excited by the prospect and I 

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get so excited by the product. 
And so if the deal isn't quite 

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00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,920
there yet, I would still be 
really excited to actually make 

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it happen because I would love 
to have the product out there in

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the market and be able to create
the the pieces. 

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00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,920
And so those people that I would
work with are actually really 

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good at kind of reining that in 
and just being like, well, if it

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doesn't work, then it's not the 
right thing to do. 

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00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,680
When you started, did you sort 
of create your brand values? 

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00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:42,400
I think when I started I was 22,
so I didn't have a clue what I 

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00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:43,960
didn't even. 
I don't think I'd ever heard the

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00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,400
term brand values. 
I think our brand values at the 

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time were just having as much 
fun as possible, going out as 

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much as we could, having the 
most raucous time possible 

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whilst creating stuff that was 
really like that we loved to 

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wear. 
That sparked joy. 

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00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,400
That sparked joy and you know 
what? 

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00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,880
I think that became the essence 
of the brand for many years. 

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00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,200
And I think sometimes if you sit
round a board room table and 

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say, let's solidify our brand 
values, that's where they 

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00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,280
instantly just get lost. 
You know, they should be 

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00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,800
apparent immediately. 
They should be intrinsic in 

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everything you do. 
And sure, it comes later down 

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the line and further as a 
business evolves. 

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00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,320
Often times it's really good to 
actually solidify those more 

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00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,600
officially and then make sure 
that you're asking the question,

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00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,080
does this align with our brand 
values? 

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00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,320
Is this what we should be doing?
Is this right for our customer? 

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All of those things. 
But I think in the initial 

227
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,040
phases, it's very much about 
like you just get them down by 

228
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,120
making what you make and and 
doing how you do. 

229
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,440
And loving. 
It and loving it. 

230
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,240
Yeah. 
I think so much about the brand 

231
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:58,200
was was around just like having 
so much fun and being so playful

232
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,720
and partying and enjoying 
yourself and all of those 

233
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,240
things. 
And so I did have periods of my 

234
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,440
life where I wasn't particularly
happy and I really struggled to 

235
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,560
create collections and those 
moments. 

236
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,480
And I always used to think about
musicians who would, you know, 

237
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,600
write these Grammy 
Award-winning, multi platinum 

238
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,480
selling albums off the back of a
heartbreak. 

239
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,640
And I'd be like, I can barely 
even come up with an idea, you 

240
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,400
know? 
So how do you handle that? 

241
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,440
Not well, I think if you look 
back at some of my collections 

242
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,720
you'll see. 
But there's some darker ones. 

243
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:39,600
Not darker, just crap. 
No, there's, there's a couple. 

244
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,320
There's a couple of moments 
where you know, I can look back 

245
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,840
and be like I wasn't in a good 
place at all. 

246
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,000
And you can see that from. 
I can see it from the work, from

247
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,960
the product. 
Yeah, yeah, for sure. 

248
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,280
Because I think, you know, you 
know, it was so everything about

249
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,720
what we did was just about 
having so much fun as a team 

250
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,240
when we were making it and that 
just infused through into the 

251
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,480
product. 
And when the atmosphere or when 

252
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:11,320
I was miserable in the studio, 
it was hard to fake that I 

253
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,280
think. 
And I think that sort of, you 

254
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,960
know, is a great testament to 
the authenticity of the brand in

255
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:23,520
one way and also kind of speaks 
to why maybe I realised that, 

256
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,520
you know, the the natural time 
came for me to move away from 

257
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,120
it. 
And I want to come on to that, 

258
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:38,360
but I, I just on this sort of 
identity of the brand, I would 

259
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,000
just love to know how you would 
describe the Henry Holland 

260
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,560
Studios style DNA in three 
words. 

261
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,400
Some of the words would probably
be similar, like bold and 

262
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:55,520
playful, I think. 
I think one of the reasons why I

263
00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,400
really sort of felt drawn to my 
work in ceramics was after lots 

264
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,040
of trials and lots of testing, I
made something that I felt 

265
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,560
looked like I'd made it. 
And you know, some, some of the 

266
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,040
biggest compliments I would ever
get about my work in fashion 

267
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,400
would be those dresses look like
you. 

268
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,840
And I don't know how to explain 
that any better, but they, you 

269
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,120
know, everything I made I tried 
to infuse with its own kind of 

270
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,080
sense of personality. 
And I think that's exactly what 

271
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,200
I tried to do with everything 
with my design language. 

272
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,560
And I think that that was 
something that I, I discovered 

273
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,480
in ceramics after a bit of trial
and error, which is now our 

274
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,320
signature technique. 
So I think bold and playful 

275
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,360
definitely go across the two. 
And I used to describe House of 

276
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,800
Holland as bold to the point of 
obnoxious, which it did have a 

277
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,400
little bit or audacity. 
I prefer the word audacity in my

278
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,240
in my older, more mature 
vernacular. 

279
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:03,240
So it's bold and it's playful 
and it's and it's it's organic. 

280
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,520
Has Folland has got an 
organicness to it. 

281
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920
You know, I think the palette 
that we work with, the fact that

282
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,280
we're working with materials 
from the ground really play into

283
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,120
that. 
I think it's joyful, joyful, 

284
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,160
bold, playful, organic. 
Yeah. 

285
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,160
Love that. 
Looks forwards. 

286
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,600
Now, Henry Holland, the fashion 
brand went into administration 

287
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,880
during COVID. 
It did. 

288
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,120
It's a tough moment there. 
Yeah, it was tough. 

289
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,120
I think for me though, the 
tough, the toughest part was the

290
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,720
18 months prior to that point. 
I don't know if you've 

291
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,520
experienced this similar, but I 
think those 18 months you're 

292
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,520
trying everything that you 
possibly can to make to prevent 

293
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,160
that from happening, to protect 
your team, to protect their 

294
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,160
jobs, to protect everything that
you've built. 

295
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,440
I think at that point, you 
really I went through a real 

296
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,760
personal thing, which sounds 
really selfish after saying all 

297
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,000
of that about protecting my 
team. 

298
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,880
But you, you question like 
yourself worth and what that's 

299
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,119
going to be if you no longer 
have this thing that has been 

300
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,040
such a big part of your life for
so long. 

301
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,079
It's how so many people know who
you are. 

302
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:19,839
And then and then at the point 
of making the decision that, OK,

303
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,880
it's you know, this, this isn't,
this isn't going to not going to

304
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,160
be able to save this, this isn't
going to happen. 

305
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:31,640
And making that decision, then 
the the weight of the world just

306
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,680
lifts in an instant. 
And then you can actually lift 

307
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,120
your head up again and see that 
there is a whole world that does

308
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,840
exist outside of this company 
that there is, you know, people 

309
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,840
care about you, not necessarily 
your business. 

310
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,760
I was really heartened by, you 
know, the response from people 

311
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,600
that from everyone, really 
everyone kind of, you know, 

312
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,480
there was a real overwhelming 
sense of empathy and care that I

313
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,400
got from both the industry and 
friends and family and everyone.

314
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,160
But yeah, it's it. 
It's a tough process to go 

315
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,400
through. 
And then I think once you've 

316
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,720
gone through it, like anything, 
you learn so much about it. 

317
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,640
You learn to kind of detach 
yourself from what you do. 

318
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,800
You learn that what you are is 
who you are isn't what you do. 

319
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,880
There's so many lessons about 
that yourself worth isn't 

320
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,920
connected to your output as a 
business person or as a brand 

321
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:32,000
guardian or you know, and you 
learn that business is business.

322
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,760
And then I've been so fortunate 
to learn that, you know, you can

323
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,920
go on to completely different 
areas and business and like 

324
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,440
build something completely 
different. 

325
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,920
You know, it's been, it's it 
when you're in it, it really was

326
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,800
the lead up to it that was 
painful. 

327
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,520
And also you're hiding it. 
You're by yourself. 

328
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,240
You feel really isolated because
you can't share it with your 

329
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,320
team. 
You can't share it with your 

330
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,520
usual kind of sounding board 
because you're effectively, you 

331
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840
don't want them to jump ship and
you don't want them to think 

332
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,040
that their jobs in jeopardy. 
You don't want them to think 

333
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,720
that you're not doing anything. 
You know, it's a really 

334
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:13,320
isolating, painful process. 
But yeah, the moment of that 

335
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,920
happening is, is when it, it 
lifts and the, you know, the 

336
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,520
brand still exists. 
Someone bought it. 

337
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,880
I I choose not to look at it. 
If your skin feels like it's 

338
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,960
changed overnight, you're not 
alone. 

339
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,200
What used to work suddenly 
doesn't, and new concerns like 

340
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,560
fine lines, dark spots, or 
breakouts appear. 

341
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,240
Our skin evolves and our 
routines should too. 

342
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,320
Renew and Me creates 
dermatologist designed, 

343
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,160
personalized treatments that 
adapt monthly to your skin's 

344
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,000
needs. 
Their advanced retinoid worked 

345
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,640
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346
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,400
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347
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,680
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348
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349
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,680
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350
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351
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weeks, all with ongoing guidance
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353
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,280
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354
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:30,520
just £4.99 with. 
Code SD Glow Were you ever 

355
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:37,000
tempted to buy the brand? 
No, no, I mean partly I didn't 

356
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,680
have two pennies to up together.
That's probably informed the 

357
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,960
decision. 
I mean, I could have maybe gone 

358
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,400
out and saw some fun day. 
I think I very much at the 

359
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,120
moment that that happened, I 
felt like my time with that 

360
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,800
particular brand was had run its
course and I was proud of every 

361
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,040
single thing that I'd done every
single day that we'd, you know, 

362
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,840
been working on it together 
with, you know, amazing group of

363
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,920
people. 
Some of my closest friends in 

364
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,360
the world I started that brand 
with and still are today. 

365
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,400
You know, we're a real, we were 
a real family, and that's why it

366
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,880
was so painful. 
But then I realized that, you 

367
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,160
know, we're still a family, 
whether that exists or not. 

368
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,120
And yeah, it was, it was sold 
on. 

369
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:27,200
And I just realized that that 
wasn't where I needed to be 

370
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,400
anymore. 
Do you miss fashion at all? 

371
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,640
I don't miss it because I enjoy 
it in a completely different way

372
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,440
now. 
I mean, one of the one of the 

373
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,120
struggles that I always had as a
creative director, right, was 

374
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,760
this endless cycle of 
collections and production and 

375
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,440
manufacturing and distribution. 
You know, 4 collections a year 

376
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,840
minimum, then additional 
collections and, you know, 

377
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,400
collaborative drops and smaller 
little indents here and there. 

378
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,600
That was relentless, exhausting,
overwhelming. 

379
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,880
But I'm a big shopper and so 
every time I go in a shop, I 

380
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,360
want to see new stuff. 
And so I'd always be like, well,

381
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,800
I'd always be sort of looking at
it from the point of view of the

382
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,680
consumer as well, but from our 
customer, be like, you know, 

383
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,400
they want new if we want to keep
them engaged with us as a brand 

384
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,160
and not be kind of have their 
head turned, as they say on Love

385
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,320
Island by every other brand 
that's, you know, feeding them 

386
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,000
something new every month. 
And we need to keep giving them 

387
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,840
new things to talk about, new 
things to look at, new things to

388
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,240
buy. 
And so I was always torn because

389
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,520
I want new stuff, but at the 
same time, producing that was 

390
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:40,800
overwhelming. 
It is. 

391
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,400
And so now I'm I enjoy fashion. 
I was just looking at all the 

392
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,240
couture shows in the car and the
way here. 

393
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,680
I just love enjoying fashion now
without I used to shop with my 

394
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,880
hands. 
I don't know if you you relate 

395
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,520
to this as well, but I'd go in a
store and I'd go in the men's 

396
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,240
department for myself, but and 
also the women's department and 

397
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,600
the women's part would always 
just be compare and contrast. 

398
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,960
I'd be looking at what people 
had on the rails. 

399
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,160
I'd be feeding their fabrics, 
I'd be checking their labels, 

400
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,480
where they manufactured, where 
they produced, but how did they 

401
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,040
get that? 
How did they get that made in 

402
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,680
Portugal for that price? 
How do you know it would be this

403
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,000
going shopping was no longer 
enjoyable because it was like 

404
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,880
this feeling of like constant 
comparison with your own output 

405
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,720
and just not feeling, you know, 
as good as what you were seeing 

406
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,560
on the shelves. 
And, you know, constantly be 

407
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,400
sending photos from shop floors 
to my team being like, how do we

408
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,000
get this and look into this 
fabric? 

409
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,760
And you know, and now I just get
to enjoy it in its purest form 

410
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,000
as as a real, you know, as an 
actual voyeur, a viewer. 

411
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,520
Obviously the fashion world is 
in a in probably one of the most

412
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,160
complex moments it's ever been 
in. 

413
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,400
I'd just love to hear your take 
on that. 

414
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,200
I see. 
I, I think the period that I was

415
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,800
in the, in the industry and, and
running my company, we launched 

416
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,280
in 2006 and we went through to 
2020. 

417
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,440
And so social media didn't exist
in 2006. 

418
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,560
Direct to consumer wasn't 
really, you know, a thing you 

419
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,520
would, you were pretty much 
solely reliant on wholesale 

420
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,000
partners. 
It was very much built around 

421
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,200
like the bigger the store, the 
bigger the order department 

422
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,880
stores and things like that. 
And you know, now as of last 

423
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:42,960
week, we've just lost, you know,
Bergdorf's, Neiman's and Sax in 

424
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,280
one day. 
I just think there's there was 

425
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,120
just in that time that I was in 
business, there was a huge 

426
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:58,240
explosion of brands, like huge. 
And so that kind of, it just 

427
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,040
became like a, a devolved 
industry, right? 

428
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,480
Rather than kind of like these 
really key heritage brands that 

429
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,240
kind of managed everything. 
And then there was space for new

430
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,440
exciting brands to come up and 
take some time and develop and 

431
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,520
grow and build. 
And now the, the market is so 

432
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,560
saturated, it's so hard to cut 
through that noise. 

433
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,400
And you know, with your, the 
communication channels now 

434
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,120
you're not necessarily reliant 
on magazines, which is a good 

435
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,160
thing. 
I, I agree that that's a good 

436
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,960
thing. 
You know, you're able to get 

437
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,240
your work out there, whether 
somebody else thinks it's good 

438
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,360
or not. 
Because it is such a, as an 

439
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,480
industry, it's, it's such a 
subjective industry. 

440
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,640
You know, somebody, you might be
creating something that's 

441
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,120
amazing for your customer base 
and the press hater, but the 

442
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,320
buyers love it. 
You know, you never kind of 

443
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,160
understand how to kind of, I 
never figured out how to please 

444
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,600
all three at once. 
Impossible. 

445
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,800
Impossible. 
Yeah. 

446
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,720
And so, you know, there's 
there's less reliance on on that

447
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,200
old structure now where you 
know, which I think is good 

448
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,640
because it gives so many more 
people an opportunity. 

449
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,120
But at the same time it just 
creates such a crowded market. 

450
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,880
I think to have a brand that 
lasts longer than 5 to 10 years 

451
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,400
now is really challenging. 
It's really hard because, you 

452
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,080
know, brands come and go a lot 
quicker. 

453
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,800
I just think the life cycle has 
speed up of everything. 

454
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,160
You know, our attention to our, 
our attention spans have 

455
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,760
reduced. 
You know, our, our magpie 

456
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,840
culture is that we're looking 
for the shiny new thing all the 

457
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,080
time because we're so 
overwhelmed with information all

458
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,160
the time. 
So it's really hard to kind of 

459
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,680
create your own editing process 
and kind of go through and 

460
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760
distinguish what is right for 
you and what isn't. 

461
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:52,360
Surely that should give the big 
established brands a an 

462
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,840
opportunity so that those people
with no confidence can say, OK, 

463
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,600
I'm a Ralph girl. 
I think it has. 

464
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,920
I mean, if you look at the 
growth of the big heritage 

465
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,000
brands in the last 10 years, 
they've gone stratospheric. 

466
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,800
Fashion designers are the new 
rock stars, you know, And I was 

467
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,560
making T-shirts about them 20 
years ago. 

468
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,840
Just say no. 
Yeah. 

469
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,120
When I look back at the T-shirts
now, I'm like, that was, I was 

470
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:18,400
thinking it was such a good 
idea. 

471
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,880
And, like, it wasn't. 
I never had this foresight at 

472
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840
the time, but it was basically 
creating, like, a band T-shirt 

473
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,120
or a football shirt for fashion 
designers, for, like, the kind 

474
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,000
of young emerging designers 
where, you know, if you wanted 

475
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,440
to buy their work, it wasn't 
necessarily readily available. 

476
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,000
And if it was, it was really 
expensive, but you could buy one

477
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,800
of my T-shirts to show that a, 
you kind of, it was like a nod 

478
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960
and a wink that you got it, that
you knew who the new names were,

479
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,800
that you know, the Christopher 
Kane's, the Gareth Pughes, the 

480
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,560
Giles Deacons, the Richard 
Nichols, like all of these 

481
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,000
names. 
You know you by wearing one of 

482
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800
my T-shirts, you told the world 
you knew what you were talking 

483
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,800
about and you were able to show 
your support for them for £50 I 

484
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,960
suppose. 
It was really, truly brilliant. 

485
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,000
What was the biggest number of 
T-shirts that you sold? 

486
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,560
Oh gosh, I've no idea. 
No idea. 

487
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,440
I do know that I was hand 
carrying boxes to the back door 

488
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040
of Brown's Focus on South Martin
St. myself, I read. 

489
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,560
That I love. 
That I think one of, I think one

490
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,640
of my biggest ever orders, like 
single orders was Barney's. 

491
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,400
Julie Gilhardt who was at 
Barney's, she ordered a big, a 

492
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,800
big order from me and I got them
all printed in Kentish Town 

493
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,280
where I was dead. 
And then I got them all 

494
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880
delivered to my flat in Chalk 
Farm. 

495
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,640
And I was in this tiny flat 
where you could barely stand up 

496
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,520
in the flat. 
It was all in the eaves. 

497
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,080
There was, there was about 80% 
of the flat that you were like 

498
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,440
this. 
And I just had these boxes 

499
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,560
powered floor to ceiling. 
And I opened the shipping guide 

500
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,480
and it was 55 pages long about 
all of the rules and 

501
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,240
regulations. 
Because imagine shipping into 

502
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,960
like a Barney's warehouse. 
It was like without a logistics 

503
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,240
person, without a single member 
of staff, and then someone was 

504
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,840
sitting on the floor and crying.
So I was like, oh, I'm never 

505
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,840
like, they were like, everything
has to be like bar coded, like 

506
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,560
packed by size. 
And I just had like these piles 

507
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,280
of American Apparel T-shirts 
that were all folded as one. 

508
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,520
I was like, what? 
I had no idea. 

509
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,600
In the end, we got them in 
there. 

510
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640
They were a little bit late, but
we got them in there. 

511
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,200
I think that was probably my 
biggest ever single order. 

512
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,160
Number. 
I was like, it's under 1000 

513
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,160
T-shirts I think in one order. 
It's not bad. 

514
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,280
You were sitting there, yes, in 
a panic. 

515
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,560
Love it. 
It's not dribbling down my face 

516
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:50,120
with ugly crying, pretty much. 
Now today I want to know more 

517
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,120
like your personal style, your 
likes, your dislikes. 

518
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,280
So we're going on a style 
journey together. 

519
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,840
So when you got out of bed in 
the morning, how did you decide 

520
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,040
what you were going to wear 
today? 

521
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Or did you plan it last night? 
It was definitely this morning. 

522
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,280
I am very I put so much 
importance on my outfit for the 

523
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,240
day and how it's reflective of 
my mood. 

524
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,040
Like quite often I'll change my 
clothes to three times a day, 

525
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,440
which. 
Is of your mood. 

526
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,080
Yeah, because of how I want to 
present myself and how I'm 

527
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,960
feeling. 
And sometimes if I'm feeling a 

528
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,560
bit low, I need to uplift myself
with my clothes. 

529
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Sometimes if I'm feeling a bit 
low, I want to disappear and 

530
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:34,760
wear all black and so when I go 
travelling I get quite anxious 

531
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,960
because I want to have all 
eventualities covered. 

532
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,800
Yeah, I usually pack 2 to 3 
outfits a day if we're going 

533
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,840
away anywhere. 
Drives my husband mad. 

534
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,360
He constantly bemoans how much I
travel with and I'm like, why do

535
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,640
you care? 
You're not carrying my case? 

536
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,400
Like why does it affect you so 
much? 

537
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,360
Cases. 
Yeah. 

538
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,840
So I definitely got dressed this
morning and I was like, well 

539
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,400
there's fashion about. 
Something on a bit fashiony. 

540
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,240
Well, I'm wearing a labrum 
shirt. 

541
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,720
He's an amazing British designer
who I adore. 

542
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,920
Photo is a great designer who 
makes amazing men's wear that I 

543
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,440
really love. 
And then this is actually a 

544
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,760
check it from Zara. 
Harry Lambert did a 

545
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,000
collaboration with Zara and this
is from one of his earliest 

546
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,520
collaborations, I think, with 
them. 

547
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,320
And then I've got our legacy 
jeans on some Doc Martins. 

548
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,280
Very tonal, very tonal, very 
tonal today. 

549
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,200
So what was your mood this? 
Morning. 

550
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,760
I was, I was excited to come 
here today and I was like, we're

551
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,680
going to be talking about 
fashion the best because I work 

552
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,640
in my studio now everyday. 
So my studio outfits and then my

553
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,320
out studio outfits are very 
different. 

554
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,120
I've never had a job where 
that's the case. 

555
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,640
So do you change when you go 
into the studio because it's 

556
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,720
mucky? 
Depending on what I'm doing, if 

557
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,160
I'm making and glazing, then 
yeah, I've got like an overall 

558
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,280
that I'll just change into. 
But generally, I'll just wear 

559
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,560
kind of much more casual, like 
Carhart pants and a hoodie that,

560
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,400
excuse me, I'll just wear a car 
hot pants and a hoodie, which, 

561
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,240
you know, I've got a load of 
studio clothes. 

562
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,800
It doesn't matter if they get a 
bit messed up. 

563
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,120
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

564
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,080
You grew up in Ramsbottom? 
I did. 

565
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,960
Lancashire, Yes. 
Were you exposed to fashion at a

566
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,040
young age? 
I was definitely exposed to 

567
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,040
style. 
I was raised by a very stylish 

568
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,160
mother and my grandmother was 
very stylish as well and they 

569
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,080
loved to go shopping to Cheers 
Cliffs on the weekend and you 

570
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,640
know, by really like, they were 
very meticulous and stylish. 

571
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:39,760
And my grandmother in particular
was very into her, you know, the

572
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,760
way she dressed and the way she 
presented herself. 

573
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,120
And then my mum was really 
stylish and was like, 

574
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,560
fashionable as well. 
Yeah, fashion. 

575
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,040
Did you go shopping with her? 
Constantly, yeah. 

576
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,280
Sometimes she'd give me the day 
of school. 

577
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,200
And did you offer your opinions?
Always, always, yeah. 

578
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,760
One of my one of our favorite 
things to do would be like, oh, 

579
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,600
she'd she'd sort of send me off 
in Marks and Spencer's or 

580
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,080
somewhere to go and find a pair 
of shoes that match something 

581
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,520
that she was planning to buy. 
Or. 

582
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,080
I would always. 
I would love going shopping with

583
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,280
my mum and my sister and helping
them pick out their clothes. 

584
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,960
And then I think when I first 
started to buy my own clothes 

585
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,080
was when I really started to 
understand how powerful fashion 

586
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:28,400
was and how it enabled me to 
kind of attach myself to certain

587
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,320
groups of people that I wanted 
to sort of align with. 

588
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,920
You know, like, if you wanted to
learn the cool kids at school, 

589
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,120
you knew how to do that. 
And you would, you know, dress 

590
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,360
in a certain way. 
And if you wanted to represent 

591
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,440
yourself in a certain way, then 
your fashion, your clothes was a

592
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,320
really powerful way to do that. 
Do you remember the moment that 

593
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,800
you first put something on that 
you felt completely different, 

594
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,680
Completely. 
You got what you're talking 

595
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:57,840
about. 
I think so, yeah. 

596
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,600
I had bought this outfit. 
It's like this by Remind. 

597
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:08,280
This is the early, late 90s, 
nineties, but some tartan dot 

598
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,920
Martins and like a sort of 
matching tartan shirt. 

599
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,800
And this was kind of Marc Jacobs
grunge collection once it 

600
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,600
reached Ram's bottom. 
Yeah. 

601
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,120
So it was kind of probably about
six or seven years later and 

602
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,320
much more diluted. 
But that was when I was like, 

603
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:32,639
OK, I can make myself look and 
feel much different than how I 

604
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,920
maybe feel on the inside. 
Your childhood best friend was 

605
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,679
supermodel Agnes Teen. 
Do you think you had an effect 

606
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,639
on each other's style? 
Oh yeah. 

607
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Did you dress each other? 
100%, yeah. 

608
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,280
You go shopping? 
Yes. 

609
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,159
Yeah. 
So we met through friends when 

610
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:52,679
we were about 12 or 13, so we 
grew up in the same town. 

611
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:59,040
And then I moved to London to go
to university and Aggie started 

612
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,280
to work in fashion and doing 
kind of occasional shoots 

613
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,960
initially. 
And then coming down to London 

614
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,680
more and more, I think she got 
an agency in Manchester 1st and 

615
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,800
then moved to one in London. 
And then we moved in together 

616
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,000
for my when I was in my second 
year at university. 

617
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,120
And yeah, those are formative 
years, right? 

618
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,280
For anyone, you know, in your 
late teens, early 20s, you're 

619
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,560
really discovering who you are. 
And fashion was a huge part of 

620
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,360
that. 
It was, you know, it was the 

621
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,800
glory days of Camden. 
You know, Amy Winehouse was in 

622
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,200
it, was there with the holy arms
like it was this. 

623
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,200
It felt like Camden at that time
was the centre of the universe. 

624
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,080
And we were absolutely in the 
thick of it, you know, having 

625
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:49,000
the time of our lives really. 
And the fashion was distinctive.

626
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,960
You know, it was the skinniest 
jeans you could possibly squeeze

627
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,320
yourself into, Blazers, 
trilbies, like weird nods to 

628
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,160
tailoring, like, you know, 
Blazers and waist coats and 

629
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,600
trilbies and all of these kind 
of things, but worn in this 

630
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,040
really dishevelled way, like you
were supposed to look 

631
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,920
dishevelled and. 
Where were you buying those 

632
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,440
clothes at? 
Camden Market in Camden, you 

633
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,160
don't have to go far. 
Yeah, or Topshop. 

634
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,360
Topshop skinny jeans section was
lit. 

635
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,480
You could you'd bump into. 
You could bump into a whole band

636
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,680
if you were like a groupie in 
that moment and you were into 

637
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,680
the Libertines or the 
Paddingtons or bands like that. 

638
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,440
If you wanted to get an 
autograph, you just hung around 

639
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160
in the skinny jeans section in 
Topshop and they'll be there in 

640
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,880
minutes. 
So you studied journalism at the

641
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,360
London College of Journalism, 
but what was your light bulb 

642
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:49,280
moment in terms of fashion? 
So I was, I was working as a 

643
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,600
fashion editor at teen 
magazines, magazine called Smash

644
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,080
Hits, which some of the audience
will definitely be aware of, and

645
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,320
another one that was slightly 
less than known called Sneak. 

646
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:05,240
And I was, I just, I had this 
constant, I used to buy all of 

647
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:09,120
these slogan T-shirts from 
America and I used to wear them 

648
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,880
a lot. 
And we used to wear them to 

649
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,520
nightclubs that we used to go to
1 called Boombox in particular. 

650
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,000
And all anyone used to wear at 
the time, we basically just 

651
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,520
looked like we got dressed out 
of a pencil case. 

652
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,120
Like everything was neon. 
It was as bright as it possibly 

653
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,080
could be, metallic, neon 
patterned, all of this. 

654
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,240
And so I sort of had this thing,
I was like, oh, I'm going to 

655
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,160
make these slogan T-shirts. 
I'm going to make these slogan 

656
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,440
T-shirts. 
And everyone was like, do it, do

657
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,520
it. 
And I never got around to it. 

658
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:45,560
And then eventually I did and I 
made 4T shirts and I think I 

659
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,480
made these four T-shirts. 
You who Gareth Pugh get your 

660
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,840
free con Giles Deacon cause me 
pain, Haddie Slimane and do me 

661
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,800
daily Christopher Bailey. 
And those four names at the time

662
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,560
were kind of the centre of my 
fashion kind of universe, right?

663
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,720
So Gareth was like someone that 
I would go to parties with. 

664
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,840
We were friendly and you know, I
was in awe of his work. 

665
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,760
Kind of like really couture 
style kind of club kid 

666
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,440
referencing like amazing, like 
volumous work that was just like

667
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,880
out of this world. 
And then Giles was kind of like 

668
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,440
the pinnacle of the London 
Fashion scene at the time. 

669
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,720
And these are all these names 
and, you know, people that were 

670
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,600
like at Boombox. 
And then the Christopher Bailey,

671
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,280
the Burberry movement and then 
obviously the Duorjon movement, 

672
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,760
which was very of that moment. 
And so I made these four 

673
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,320
T-shirts and they were just for 
me to wear really to Boombox. 

674
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,000
And I think I made maybe like 10
or 20 of each and I'd wear them 

675
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,240
and people, people come up to me
all the time. 

676
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:52,480
Like, where do you get that 
from? 

677
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,960
Who made it? 
And so I just started making 

678
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,680
more. 
And then some of the smaller 

679
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,280
designers would come and ask me 
to make them for them, all this 

680
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,080
stuff. 
So I think the moment, my 

681
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,440
fashion moment, kind of, I don't
know how to say this without 

682
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,560
sounding absolutely heinous, but
like sort of found me, you know 

683
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,680
what I mean? 
I sort of, I sort of 

684
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,840
experimented with this little 
playful project and it it really

685
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,400
resonated really quickly. 
It exploded. 

686
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,040
Yeah, in a time when bit going 
viral wasn't possible because 

687
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,600
social media didn't exist, they 
kind of went viral. 

688
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,040
I. 
Remember it well. 

689
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,680
Yeah. 
And it's it's, I mean, I can say

690
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,720
all of this, looking back at the
time, I would never be so, you 

691
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,840
know, cocky to say I went viral.
But you know what I mean? 

692
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,440
You did like looking back, you 
can kind of appreciate it. 

693
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:49,280
And so, yeah, that kind of that 
moment when that happened, it 

694
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,240
like it, it kind of I was like, 
oh, I could do something with 

695
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,360
this. 
And then I think it was when 

696
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,880
Lulu Kennedy asked me to do a 
show with Fashioniste, she was 

697
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,480
like, do you want to do 
something with your T-shirts? 

698
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,120
And I was like, Oh my God, there
would be because my like, dreams

699
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,640
as a teenager was just like 
watching 90s fashion shows. 

700
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,800
And I just like thought that 
they were just the epitome of 

701
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,520
chic and. 
Style and like so like the old 

702
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,280
like Versace shows from the 
Nice. 

703
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,040
They were full on glamour. 
They were like rock concerts to 

704
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,840
me. 
I used to sit at home my entire 

705
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,760
teenage years watching fashion 
TV. 

706
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,280
The music and the like the. 
Dior couture shows and those, 

707
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,760
those Galliano shows were just 
like pure, like entertainment. 

708
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,920
I'd rather do that than watch 
any concert or gig. 

709
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,240
So when Luda meant that, I was 
like, do you think I could do a 

710
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:40,880
fashion show? 
And she was like, yeah, I guess 

711
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:41,560
so. 
If you want. 

712
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,840
And so that, and it was the 
review of that show where Sarah 

713
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,040
Mower was like, I mean, the 
jokes very funny. 

714
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:51,360
But if he wants to be around for
longer than 5 minutes, he's 

715
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,560
going to have to think of 
something else. 

716
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,960
And Ouch. 
But I thank her for that line. 

717
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,240
I think I. 
And I was like, she's so right. 

718
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,560
I mean, even then, because I'd 
done a show that was slogan 

719
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,640
T-shirts that were slightly 
longer, so they were dresses. 

720
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,200
And then I got a friend of mine 
to help me make some other 

721
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,640
pieces. 
You know, he made some like I 

722
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,480
made these coats and mats, but 
they were clear so you could 

723
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:16,760
still read the slogans 
underneath. 

724
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,000
You know, we made some pieces. 
But I, I completely agreed with 

725
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,960
that sentiment to the point that
when I came out for my bow at 

726
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,720
the end of that show, I wore AT 
shirt saying 1 trick pony 

727
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,000
because I, I called the 
collection 1 trick pony because 

728
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,960
I wanted them to know that I 
knew that this was, I was doing 

729
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,680
the same thing again. 
And I wanted to get in there 

730
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,000
first. 
I wanted to, you know, maybe 

731
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,240
that's my journalistic training,
whatever, but I kind of, I 

732
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:47,040
wanted to sort of, you know, 
have the opportunity to let them

733
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,680
know that I was in on it And I 
knew that this was feeling quite

734
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,560
1 trick pony. 
And so for the next season, we 

735
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,240
did another show with Lulu and I
did, I did everything, you know,

736
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,800
the fabric developments. 
We did prints, we did rubber 

737
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,040
swimwear, I did denim. 
We did sunglasses with Linda 

738
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,960
Farrow. 
Mulberry made my handbags. 

739
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,920
I mean, that's a hugely steep 
learning for someone who isn't 

740
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,560
trained and probably hadn't 
worked that much in other 

741
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,200
houses. 
At all I'd. 

742
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:24,480
I'd assisted some stylists, but 
carrying bags to music videos 

743
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,520
was about it. 
But never been involved in the 

744
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:35,400
construction of garments. 
Yeah, like, create, like, really

745
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:42,040
crazy brave and maybe just 
ignorant and really obnoxious. 

746
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,400
Probably. 
But I think when my ceramics 

747
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,880
business started, there was so 
many parallels to how it began 

748
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,520
that the fear wasn't there 
because I I think the fear 

749
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,120
wasn't there when I started in 
fashion because I was 22. 

750
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,960
And totally ignorant. 
Yeah, and ignorant and thought 

751
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,200
like, you know, I could, you 
know, rule the world like most 

752
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,040
22 year olds do. 
And then when I started my new 

753
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,880
business at 38, where probably I
should have had a bit more like 

754
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,800
reticence to go off and start a 
new brand, having just gone 

755
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,640
through an administration about 
six months prior, that that fear

756
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,480
wasn't there because I 
recognised so many similarities 

757
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,640
in the way that the the ceramic 
started and the T-shirt started.

758
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,040
People were responding to the 
product and it was I was taking 

759
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,680
that lead before going into 
this. 

760
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,520
I mean, my husband at the time 
was like, why can't you just 

761
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,720
have a hobby? 
Why do you have to turn 

762
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,560
everything into a business? 
Coming back to the Roman 

763
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,640
couplets, do you have your own 
one for Henry? 

764
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,520
So the funniest thing is I 
actually have a name that really

765
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,280
does not rhyme. 
I might as well be called 

766
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,080
Orange. 
Orange like I I developed the 

767
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,160
most of those one of the most 
bookmarked websites on my laptop

768
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,520
at the time was rhymezone.net 
and I'd be like put in someone's

769
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:07,320
name and they would go to 
Holland is tricky from because 

770
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,840
it was usually everyone's full 
name. 

771
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:15,240
So my I think the best I managed
was we did a wedding dress which

772
00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:18,600
was frosty crystaled Dutchess 
satin covered T-shirt for the 

773
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,960
first show and it was who needs 
a husband? 

774
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,920
I've got House of Holland, that 
was as close as we got. 

775
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,240
It's tenuous. 
It's tenuous. 

776
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,960
Yes, it's tenuous, but it's 
frustrating when you know, your 

777
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,200
entire brand is built off this 
idea. 

778
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,120
Like even our business cards, 
they were little credit cards, 

779
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,960
like full plastic credit cards. 
And it was like, it's plastic, 

780
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,320
It's hard. 
It's my business card. 

781
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,080
And people used to love that, 
especially when you went to Asia

782
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,080
because business card culture is
so, you know, so big there. 

783
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,280
And we'd give over these credit 
cards. 

784
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,880
People would absolutely like 
love them. 

785
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:01,200
Was anyone ever offended? 
A couple, yeah. 

786
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,640
I mean, I've got a couple of 
cease and desist, but never 

787
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,520
about a slogan. 
Actually, I think I got a cease 

788
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,760
and desist from Cher, which was 
devastating. 

789
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:14,960
Oh. 
No. 

790
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:20,960
Because I put her face on a 
dress but she tweeted it and 

791
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,600
said works for me so I feel 
like. 

792
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,200
Did you have a slogan under it? 
No, it's just a picture, but I 

793
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,600
think that is more legally 
challenging and an illustration 

794
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,760
of another designer that they 
didn't like the illustration so 

795
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,800
far. 
Fundamentally, who do you think 

796
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,840
you dress for? 
I think fundamentally I dress 

797
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,880
for myself and how I'm feeling, 
but I also dress for the 

798
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,280
situation. 
I think it's like a combination.

799
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,320
I dress for how I want to 
present myself in a situation, 

800
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,160
how I want to come across. 
I think that was kind of why I 

801
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,120
gravitated towards the industry 
in the 1st place was I love the 

802
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,640
ability of fashion to tell your 
own personal story and that 

803
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,800
story to evolve and change day 
by day. 

804
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Yeah. 
What's your power outfit? 

805
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,840
Do you have one? 
My, my, like, my sort of power 

806
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,480
outfits change like, but you do 
definitely have them as they go.

807
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,720
At the moment I have a really 
beautifully cut double breasted 

808
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:26,960
kind of black tux, just like 
with a wide like trouser that I 

809
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,760
really like to wear because you 
can kind of dress it up, dress 

810
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,360
it down with a T-shirt. 
It's kind of yeah. 

811
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,720
With a jazzy shoe or. 
Where's that from? 

812
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,160
From AMI, the French brand AMI, 
which I think is amazing, 

813
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,440
amazing stuff. 
You do sound like quite a 

814
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,840
shopper. 
If you could only dress in two 

815
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,640
brands, one designer, 1 High 
Street, which two would they be?

816
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,560
Like designer maybe. 
Like Marnie, I love how 

817
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,160
colourful I mean it. 
The brands change now so much 

818
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:05,320
with the creative director, 
Tammy is another one would wear 

819
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,760
a lot that's kind of a good one 
that's kind of quite consistent.

820
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,480
And then High Street, I would 
probably have to say Zara I. 

821
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,440
Thought that was going to be the
case, yeah. 

822
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:17,760
Did you say you've got a style 
icon? 

823
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,600
My style icon was always my 
mother. 

824
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,160
She was always very real kind of
muse with my collections. 

825
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,440
You know, I look back at some of
the pictures of me and her when 

826
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,440
I was a child, and I can see her
outfits and be like, I built a 

827
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,040
whole collection of that without
even realizing. 

828
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,400
You know, like with this one 
picture of her wearing these 

829
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:42,600
sort of jade green, turquoise 
jumbo cords with a yellow fur 

830
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,160
jacket and pink paint and ankle 
boots. 

831
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,680
And I was like, that's not my 
first 3 collections. 

832
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,800
Yeah. 
She was very much a kind of a 

833
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,640
style icon for me in terms of 
how she dressed. 

834
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,200
I think so many designers are 
gay men who idolize women, 

835
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,320
right? 
I mean, you look at all there 

836
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,760
was a real uproar about, you 
know, all of the new designers 

837
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,160
and the lack of female creative 
directors, which is a real shame

838
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,560
because I think, you know, men 
make clothes for how we want 

839
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,320
women to appear. 
And, you know, and it's often 

840
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,760
because they are absolute idols,
our Queens, our warriors, like 

841
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,960
we dress them as such, whereas 
women dress women for the way 

842
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,800
that they want to feel in their 
clothes. 

843
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,360
And I think it's a real 
difference to that. 

844
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,160
And I would, you know, I've 
worked with male with my own 

845
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,560
brand, I worked with male 
designers and female designers. 

846
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,760
And there's a There's a 
different approach. 

847
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,440
So how would you describe your 
style DNA in three words? 

848
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:47,760
It's quite schizophrenic because
it very much it does ebb and 

849
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:54,920
flow, but it is it for the most 
part, it is playful. 

850
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:59,640
It's schizophrenic and it's it's
changeable. 

851
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,800
And I'd be out in the morning, 
I'd. 

852
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,200
Be arriving to buy and shop for 
vintage, you have to be in a 

853
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,800
certain mood. 
You have to be in a mood to go 

854
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,560
and dig through, you know, rails
and rails of similar things to 

855
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,320
actually have the kind of the 
vision to see that one piece 

856
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,160
that stands out from the other 
stuff on the rail. 

857
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,320
So yes, I do do enjoy shopping 
for vintage. 

858
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,360
Do you often when I'm away? 
Do you go with an item in mind 

859
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,200
or do you go with just the the 
feeling of sometimes? 

860
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,000
I mean recently I like was on 
the real humps and vintage 

861
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,400
Levi's and they just had to be 
the right wash with the right 

862
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,120
amount of distress. 
Often times I shop for a lot of 

863
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:50,360
vintage shirts because I like, I
like a vintage shirt. 

864
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,640
Yeah, I like kind of vintage 
prints, vintage patterns. 

865
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,320
Yeah, and the fact they're worn 
in the. 

866
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,200
Fact that they're worn in and 
they're actually really 

867
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,760
comfortable. 
Sometimes I find a kind of a too

868
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,360
big collar a bit much for me, 
but I'm better instructed things

869
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,600
appear around my face, much 
better instructed things like I 

870
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,680
can't do you know, I wouldn't be
able to do really a knit without

871
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,600
a shirt underneath very well. 
And you ever customize vintage 

872
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,600
pieces? 
Do you ever change the colour? 

873
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,600
Not anymore, because I don't 
have a seamstress at work. 

874
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,960
But when I used to have a 
seamstress and some sewing 

875
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,400
machines at the office, then I 
would use to I'd customize 

876
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,920
things quite a lot. 
I'd buy a shirt in the sale, 

877
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,000
whether it be vintage or new, 
and then I would take it to the 

878
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,640
studio and get it taken in or 
taken up. 

879
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,240
Yeah. 
You haven't got a little local 

880
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:39,960
seamstress. 
I haven't got a local seamstress

881
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,760
on tap at the moment. 
It's a fine one, I know. 

882
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,720
It's so important. 
I think as human beings, 

883
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:49,560
particularly in the fashion 
world, we're a little guilty of 

884
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,760
sizing people up when we first 
meet them by what they're 

885
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,960
wearing. 
It's a sort of shorthand. 

886
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,000
Is it something you're conscious
of doing? 

887
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,160
Yeah, we all do it. 
And I think that's why I love 

888
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,840
fashion so much because knowing 
that I know that, you know, I 

889
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,360
sort of, I dress myself for 
those situations knowing that 

890
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,000
that's going to happen. 
So I'm telling people when 

891
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,920
they're sizing me up, how I want
to be perceived approached down 

892
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,880
within that moment. 
I have a really bad habit. 

893
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,720
I love shoes. 
I'm obsessed with shoes. 

894
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,560
So I'll often meet someone, look
at their face, then look at 

895
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:25,800
their shoes in the back to their
face. 

896
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,720
But that looks like this a lot. 
Like I'm like literally looking 

897
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:31,480
you up and down. 
Like I'm being really rude. 

898
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:32,920
So what are their shoes telling 
you? 

899
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,840
You can tell if someone's 
stylish or fashionable. 

900
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:44,320
You can tell if someone's chic. 
You can tell if someone just 

901
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,320
like you can. 
I don't know. 

902
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:47,880
You can sell so much you can 
tell. 

903
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,880
If so, you can. 
I can probably, yeah. 

904
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,600
I would have. 
I would guess someone's age 

905
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:59,200
after I'd seen their shoes more 
so you're wearing a a high 

906
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,280
Bottega Chelsea with a with a 
gum. 

907
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:02,600
So don't worry. 
I've seen it. 

908
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,560
There you don't. 
I have them in all black. 

909
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:11,800
Nothing hiding. 
What would you say is the 

910
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,600
sexiest look on a man? 
A suit is pretty sexy. 

911
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,720
It's a bit boring, isn't it? 
Where did you get married? 

912
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,040
We got married in Casey Hayford.
Charlie made us 2 suits so I 

913
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,960
wore a black. 
I wore a black moire double 

914
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,680
breasted dinner jacket for the 
day and then a mint green for 

915
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:33,400
the evening. 
Gorgeous. 

916
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,760
Which I still have to this day. 
And it's incredible. 

917
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:43,200
And at certain points in the 
year, I can fit in it, but not 

918
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,240
in January. 
Thank you very much. 

919
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,040
No, you live in London, do you? 
Do you spend much time in the 

920
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,440
country? 
Not as much. 

921
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,960
So my husband grew up in the 
Lake District, like in a really 

922
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,160
small village. 
And I grew up in Rami, which is 

923
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,080
Ram's Bottom, which is, you 
know, it's surrounded by, it's 

924
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,760
in the valley, it's surrounded 
by beautiful rolling hills. 

925
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:09,000
So we're both quite city boys 
where, you know, we feel like 

926
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,880
we've done our time in the 
country. 

927
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,280
We we recognise it's drawbacks, 
you know, the isolation, the 

928
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,600
kind of the lack of diversity 
and all other things which drew 

929
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:19,840
us to the cities. 
The mud. 

930
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,160
The mud. 
So we don't spend as much time 

931
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,080
in the city. 
I'm sorry, in the country. 

932
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:27,000
Wait. 
Yeah. 

933
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,800
So what is stay at home, chill 
out Henry wearing? 

934
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,160
Oh gosh, I don't even want to 
say out loud, but like some 

935
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:41,280
really like we have been in our 
in our 40s, which we're now in, 

936
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,760
we tend to just come home and 
put pajamas on. 

937
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,920
Like, you know, people have like
they'll put house clothes on. 

938
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,560
I never really understood that. 
And like people that were like, 

939
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,280
oh, I do now. 
And people are like, oh, we 

940
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,360
don't want to get outside 
clothes on the bed of is that 

941
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,200
what you're talking about? 
My dog's chair has my pillow. 

942
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,080
What would you say was your 
worst fashion moment? 

943
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,680
Oh, I. 
Have so many, so many. 

944
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:10,640
Most of them from sort of 2005 
to 2008 period when I was sort 

945
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,440
of squeezed into these, the 
skinniest jeans and everything 

946
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,320
was neon coloured. 
Had some yellow skinny jeans 

947
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,840
which were not great. 
But not on my legs. 

948
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:27,720
Banana legs, Yeah, absolutely. 
But I but I think if you've 

949
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,400
never had a regretful fashion 
moment, then you've never really

950
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,400
gone for it. 
And so I really stand by going 

951
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,760
for it. 
Is it exercise and fitness an 

952
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,440
important part of your routine? 
It is, yeah. 

953
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,080
Always been. 
Always has been, yeah. 

954
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,600
When I was younger, I was a 
gymnast. 

955
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,680
I used to do that like 4 times a
week. 

956
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,720
So I was very. 
I got bad knees and then I kind 

957
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:53,560
of sort of, yeah. 
And then I was at an all boys 

958
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,240
school and the bullies sort of 
set in. 

959
00:54:55,240 --> 00:55:00,640
So I sort of gave up and then 
yeah, sort of in my adult years,

960
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,520
like going to the gym, I've run 
2 marathons. 

961
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,960
Wow. 
Yeah, both London. 

962
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,560
So going to the gym is just 
really good for my mental. 

963
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,000
It's a really big part of my 
sort of mental health 

964
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,080
maintenance. 
And in terms of grooming, 

965
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,840
strikes me that your hair is 
quite signature. 

966
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,160
It is. 
There's a four step process 

967
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:31,880
which I've been doing for at 
least 25 years. 4 steps. 

968
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:40,400
Four steps, salt spray, blow 
dry, straighten and then wax. 

969
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,760
But it's very like, it moves, 
you know, it's malleable. 

970
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,360
So how? 
Long does it all take you. 04 

971
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,520
minutes. 
I mean, I've been doing it a 

972
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:56,680
long time, but yeah, my, my mum 
had like quite big hair and 

973
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,680
work. 
She we have a similar nose and 

974
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,800
she taught me the bigger the 
hair the smaller the nose. 

975
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,440
Tweakments. 
Yes, absolutely. 

976
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,120
Bit of Botox, bit of filler. 
Why not? 

977
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,560
Let's just talk about travel. 
Yeah, I love travel. 

978
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680
Packing. 
Packing I find quite anxiety 

979
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:20,160
inducing because I, I'm never 
sure how I'm going to feel when 

980
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,080
I'm away or what situation I'm 
going to be in. 

981
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,400
And also the things that I 
really I, I like to make an 

982
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,800
outfit are jackets and shoes and
they're tough things to pack a 

983
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,680
lot of because they take up a 
lot of space. 

984
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,680
So I often have a separate case 
for shoes which. 

985
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,360
But what happens if that case 
goes missing? 

986
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,160
That has happened. 
Does that make you anxious? 

987
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:45,520
When we went to Mexico a couple 
of years ago, we went to Puerto 

988
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,560
Escondido. 
So the airport is tiny and we 

989
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:49,920
were the last flight to arrive 
in the day. 

990
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,160
And I literally just sat there 
by this the belt for hours. 

991
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,240
No. 
And that the airport just slowly

992
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:58,320
just closed and I was just 
refusing to leave. 

993
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:04,240
And my, my case did come two 
days later and my husband gave 

994
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:07,080
me one pair of swimming trunks 
that he'd accidentally packed 

995
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,800
twice. 
Like he bought them twice and 

996
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,640
packed them twice. 
So he didn't even give, he felt 

997
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,360
that I might want to wear this. 
He gave me one pair of spare 

998
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,200
trunks and I I was actually 
quite I was very surprised 

999
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,360
myself at how calm I was. 
It's fascinating, isn't it? 

1000
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,880
Just sort of working it out. 
How am I? 

1001
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,360
So do you take a wheelie with 
one outfit in? 

1002
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,320
Oh, just in case. 
Just in case, what, if anything,

1003
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,760
do you feel you have an 
excessive amount of in your 

1004
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,040
wardrobe? 
Shoes. 

1005
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:41,920
How many pairs? 
Oh, nearly 50. 

1006
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,760
Well, that by female standards, 
that's pretty good, yeah. 

1007
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,120
What's your approach to 
sustainable fashion? 

1008
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,520
From 2 perspectives, really from
one perspective. 

1009
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,400
When I was making fashion, it 
was something that I desperately

1010
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:58,400
tried to like retrospectively 
introduce into our practices. 

1011
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,920
Which is hell. 
Which is hell retrospective. 

1012
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,000
When we started in 2006, no one 
had even mentioned the world 

1013
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,080
sustainability. 
It was, it was a new thing that 

1014
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:13,000
came through and something that 
I desperately wanted to, you 

1015
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,120
know, like instill, but your 
customer doesn't want to pay any

1016
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,240
more for it. 
And it at the, you know, at the 

1017
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,560
time it was really challenging 
to do that without massively 

1018
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,560
impacting your margins or like 
really racking up your prices. 

1019
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,560
And then for myself buying 
things, it's definitely 

1020
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,080
something that I think about 
when I'm shopping, but it's not 

1021
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,560
something that I proactively go 
out and search for, if that 

1022
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,120
makes sense. 
Like I won't not buy a brand, 

1023
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,680
you know, I won't sort of 
research some more 

1024
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,600
sustainability credentials 
before buying from them, which I

1025
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,640
probably should. 
Whereas now as a business person

1026
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,800
and making, you know, homeware 
and the ceramics, it's a huge 

1027
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,480
part of what we do because I was
so I was burned by, you know, 

1028
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,360
not addressing it early enough. 
And we're a fashion company. 

1029
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:07,200
So everything that we do from 
our packaging to our, you know, 

1030
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,440
the way that we use our 
materials, we use natural 

1031
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,040
materials anyway, but we reuse 
as much of our waste as 

1032
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,440
possible. 
We fire things as low as 

1033
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,720
possible. 
So we use little energy as 

1034
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,000
possible. 
You know, we use non-toxic 

1035
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,200
glazes. 
All of these things that we can 

1036
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:27,360
do are just in an intrinsic part
of our business from day one, 

1037
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,160
and that was important. 
But coming back to your 

1038
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,040
wardrobe, what do you do with 
your clothes when you've had 

1039
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,280
enough of them? 
I'll sell them on vintage or 

1040
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,520
I'll donate them to the charity 
shop. 

1041
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,280
Let's spin on some quick fire 
questions. 

1042
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,560
What fashion advice would you 
give your 20 year old self? 

1043
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,240
Stop dying your hair. 
Oh my God. 

1044
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:47,920
I still dye my hair but I was 
dying. 

1045
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,840
But I was dying it like really 
silly colours, like it was 

1046
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:56,280
purple. 
Fashion trend would you or era 

1047
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,240
would you most like to see make 
a comeback? 

1048
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,240
Punk, you see, The thing is, 
they're all, they're all 

1049
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,280
floating around. 
Yeah. 

1050
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,160
Fashion or beauty trend that you
would consign to Room 101. 

1051
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,040
The huge eyebrows of the North 
I'd. 

1052
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,200
Be amazed how many people refer 
to those slug eyebrows. 

1053
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Your last impulse buy? 
Was a jumper a sort of an angora

1054
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,240
knit jumper from Sunny? 
It's an Italian brand. 

1055
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,440
Views on tattoos. 
I love them. 

1056
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:39,760
I don't have a single one. 
I have wanted one since I was 18

1057
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,960
and I'm always I've always got 
about 3 ideas in the back of my 

1058
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,440
head that I'm going to get done 
and then I just never get round 

1059
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,520
to it. 
I also know that if I get one 

1060
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,960
done by three months later, I'll
have one on my like. 

1061
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,520
I'm quite an addictive 
personality, so I just know that

1062
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,800
once the seal is broken, I'll 
have like my dog's name on my 

1063
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,760
neck within a week. 
So I it's probably best that I 

1064
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,960
stay naked. 
Yes, that I stay reserved. 

1065
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,640
Yes, grooming or well-being 
treatment. 

1066
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,440
You couldn't give up. 
Oh my hair dryer, does that 

1067
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,320
count? 
That's what that counts, Yeah. 

1068
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,240
OK. 
High end or High Street? 

1069
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:19,120
High end Savile Room or Levi's? 
Oh, both. 

1070
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,040
Double breasted, single 
breasted, double breasted Crocs 

1071
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:29,440
cute or puke? 
I I'm like in a group chat where

1072
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,400
people live with my friends, 
just send pictures of Crocs and 

1073
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:33,960
just be like, what the fuck were
these things? 

1074
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,200
And yeah, I have a pair for the 
studio. 

1075
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:41,320
I have a pair of tie dye ones 
and I have a pair recently. 

1076
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:42,920
I have a pair of Jean Paul 
Gaultier ones. 

1077
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,080
They they're both they are puke.
But if you've never stood in a 

1078
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:53,120
pair, then come back to me. 
Gazelles or sambas? 

1079
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,560
Oh, Sambas. 
Sports Lux or Rock'n'roll? 

1080
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,000
Sports Lux. 
Cashmere or cotton? 

1081
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,040
Cashmere. 
Cargoes or chinos? 

1082
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,000
Both chinos. 
Trilby or Tracy? 

1083
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,920
Neither. 
If I cover my quiff with 

1084
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,320
anything, my head becomes the 
size of a pea and my nose 

1085
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,120
becomes the size of a freight 
train. 

1086
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,160
Trend or style? 
Style. 

1087
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,000
Colour or monochrome? 
Colour. 

1088
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,520
Print or plain. 
I see. 

1089
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,040
I would say print but I wear 
more plane. 

1090
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,800
Hoarder or editor? 
On the Hoarder. 

1091
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,520
Charity shop or resale? 
Resale. 

1092
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,560
Budgie smugglers or board 
shorts? 

1093
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,120
Board shorts. 
And finally, traditional last 

1094
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,560
question, at the end of the day,
do you or don't you wear in bed?

1095
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:45,080
Depends on the seasons, but I do
wear I do wear pyjamas. 

1096
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:52,840
Henry, thank you so much, I have
loved a romp through your style 

1097
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,240
journey. 
Thank you so much. 

1098
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,280
Just such fun. 
Thank you for having me.