When you started, did you sort of create your brand values?
I think when I started I was 22, so I didn't have a clue what I
didn't even, I don't think I'd ever heard the term brand
values. I think our brand values at the
time were just having as much fun as possible, going out as
much as we could. Henry Holland, the fashion brand
went into administration during COVID.
It did. It's a tough moment, though.
The toughest part was the 18 months prior.
Do you miss fashion at all? I don't miss it because I enjoy
it in a completely different way now.
Obviously the fashion world is in a in probably one of the most
complex moments it's ever been in.
I'd just love to hear your take on that.
Your childhood best friend was supermodel Agnes Teen.
Do you think you had an effect on each other's style?
I have a really bad habit. I love shoes.
I'm obsessed with shoes. So I'll often meet someone, look
at their face, then look at their shoes and then back to
their face. But that looks like this.
I look like I'm like literally looking you up and down, like
I'm being really rude. So what are their shoes telling
you? Today I'm going on a style
journey with the extraordinary, eccentric and truly joyful
British designer and creative director, Henry Holland.
Hello and welcome, Henry. Apologies for my voice in
advance. Oh.
It's very sexy, sultry. It's perfect for a Tuesday
morning. Thank you for coming.
It's great to have you here. Thank you for having me.
You've been on quite the journey from journalist to fashion
designer to ceramicist to all things interiors.
That's a lot to unpack. It is, and I'm trained in none
of them. No, I, yeah, I studied
journalism that got my degree in journalism and then I used it
briefly. I worked in teen magazines for a
couple of years, which was so much fun before starting my
T-shirts and then later my brand Hats of Holland.
And then you did these fantastic rhyming T-shirts.
The rhyming couplets. Rhyming couplets.
Yes. I just wondered how much of that
was because of your journalistic training.
Definitely. I mean, for me it felt like an
evolution from, you know, writing in magazines about
clothes and then writing on clothes and then creating and
designing clothes. But I think from the outside,
people didn't really see it as such.
But also I think the thing that really helped me was an
understanding around communication and the importance
of that in the industry. How to talk to the press, how to
create something that generates traction, how to, you know,
release something and communicate that properly and
how to get press on things. Because I'd come from that side,
albeit a very different, you know, not the high fashion world
by any means, but they understood.
Same. Principle and I understood, you
know, the the logistics of how to do that and also just I was I
was always very commercially minded.
So the before I even took my T-shirts to any store, I mean,
the first store we sold them with was Dover Street Market.
It's a good. Place to start not.
Bad is it? Yeah.
And I think Browns, can't remember which was first Dover
Street and Browns. And but before I even did that,
I had a a PayPal link on my Myspace page to sort of sell
them direct to consumer, which that which was way before, you
know, direct to consumer was ever even a phrase.
So I was quite commercially minded.
And I think it mostly was born out of a lack of confidence.
You know, I didn't think that any store would ever want to
sell these. So I thought I'd have to find a
way of getting them out there myself.
And when I mention PayPal links on my Myspace now, to anyone
who's younger on my team or any interns in the past, they'd like
look at me. How old are you?
Sorry, what? What's my sense?
So it really gives you a moment in time for when they launched,
which was 2006. But that's so amazing because I,
I mean, do do you lecture at all to students?
Because I I think. Officially I think.
That's what's truly missing. Is this OK?
It's one thing to have an amazing product, but how are you
communicating it and selling it? The fashion education in this
country is second to none. We all know that it's incredible
and we've produced some of the best designers in the world time
and time again for for many, many years.
But I still think there is a kind of a slight gap in the
education from a lot of people that would come through our
doors as interns, you know, whatever area that they wanted
to go in, whether that was, you know, production assistants or,
you know, design assistants who would never even have heard the
term of a line sheet or, you know, how to kind of
commercially price a collection. It's just there's just a lot of
things that you tend to have to learn on the job.
And I let everything on the job, you know, which, you know, never
had any fashion training. So I feel that that was, in some
ways, a bit of a gift. No one had ever told me how to
do anything, but no one had ever told me how not to.
And I feel like that was really, you know, what allowed me to
kind of figure out a way on my own that worked for me and my
brand, rather than me being kind of have these preconceived ideas
that, you know, a lecturer had kind of built into me.
Like this is how you must do it. You must develop your, you know,
aesthetic language and, and then and then later turn that into
something more commercialized, which is sort of tends to be how
people would go through during their fashion education.
I didn't have that bit. So I had to be making money from
day one. You didn't.
Get much more commercial than the slogan T-shirt.
But I love the commercialisation of that and the commercial
understanding and savvy. Yeah.
And then I think there was points for even for me, like at
the beginning when, you know, so many brands would come to us and
ask me to do rhyming couplets for them.
I think I did some for the Eurostar.
I think I did some for Coca-Cola.
We definitely did some stuff with extra chewing gum.
At one point I felt like an advertising copywriter because I
was literally just writing strap lines for all of these brands.
But then it was kind of after I first did a fashion show with
Ludi Kennedy at Fashionist that I really realised that I wanted
to take it further than just T-shirts.
What was the most extraordinary brand you were approached by to
do a rhyming couplet or person? I mean, a few pop stars came to
me and asked me to do some for them like I did some for like
this rapper at the time called Lady Sovereign.
I don't know if you remember her.
I definitely. I think I was asked to do some
for Jamelia as were. You allowed to tell us what they
were I. Can't remember I'm afraid.
But then you you did a lot of collaborations and you were very
commercially minded and so the collaborations funded the rest
of the business. Yeah, absolutely.
The fashion, the collaborations funded the business.
And also I I used those as a real education and a real big
part of my education. Every time I partnered with a
bigger brand that was more established, that had a, a
distribution network, I would sit in those meetings and go
through those processes and absorb all the information about
how they got their product out to, you know, international
markets or, you know, I did an eyewear collaboration quite
early, early on with a brand called The Specs and they were
based in Australia. And I learnt so much from those
guys because they were just amazing people, but also because
they, they're positioning on the global map just meant that they
look at the world from a different place.
So our, our initial kind of outreach to sort of global
markets would always be look at Europe 1st and then over to the
States and then the Far East and Asia and then maybe Australasia
at the end. Whereas coming from Australia,
their, their first kind of port of call would be the Asian
market and the Far East and, and then later further afield.
And so I just learnt so much about, you know, global markets
from from that. And it also allowed me to work
in different categories. You know, I had a small, I mean
the biggest my team ever got to was about 2025 people.
So, you know, to produce a hosiery line or to produce
footwear or swimwear or all of these like areas that I wanted
to provide for my customer, I wouldn't have had the money or
the team or the manpower to actually like design, develop,
distribute all of those things. And so the collaborations
allowed me to do that. And I still do that now with
with interiors, you know, I still see that huge value in
collaboration. But back to fashion
collaborations, were there any that you would dream of doing
that you didn't do? That I didn't do.
Yeah, I'm sure there'll be hundreds, hundreds and hundreds
off the top of my head. I mean, really early on we did
something with like it was Levi's.
It was like anyone that was like really iconic in that area, you
know. So like a denim thing with
Levi's was really quite special. I would have loved to have done
a sportswear collaboration. So you know, one of the one of
the big guys like a Nike or an Adidas I think would have been
incredible. And how did the collaboration
process work? Did you approach them, they
approach you, or a combination? A combination.
Every time was different really. And each deal is, you know, I
learned so much about contracting and, you know, kind
of minimum guarantees and Commission rates and all of
those things as I went through these processes, each one was
different. And sometimes you'd have an idea
about wanting to work, say, in swimwear.
And so you'd approach, you know, a company and see if they would
be keen. So it was a challenge to go to
someone with an idea and then ask them to pay for it.
So the ideal would be you were approached and then you can name
your prize. And did you have a middleman?
I did. I had several over the years in
different ways. I worked with agencies, I worked
with kind of individuals that would help me, but I was always
very hands on. I was quite, I think I was quite
annoying to those, those people because I very much was involved
in most parts of the process. And knowing your value.
I'm not great at knowing my value.
It depends who you ask. When I'm kind of in the
negotiation myself, I'm not as good at knowing the value of
something because I get so excited by the prospect and I
get so excited by the product. And so if the deal isn't quite
there yet, I would still be really excited to actually make
it happen because I would love to have the product out there in
the market and be able to create the the pieces.
And so those people that I would work with are actually really
good at kind of reining that in and just being like, well, if it
doesn't work, then it's not the right thing to do.
When you started, did you sort of create your brand values?
I think when I started I was 22, so I didn't have a clue what I
didn't even. I don't think I'd ever heard the
term brand values. I think our brand values at the
time were just having as much fun as possible, going out as
much as we could, having the most raucous time possible
whilst creating stuff that was really like that we loved to
wear. That sparked joy.
That sparked joy and you know what?
I think that became the essence of the brand for many years.
And I think sometimes if you sit round a board room table and
say, let's solidify our brand values, that's where they
instantly just get lost. You know, they should be
apparent immediately. They should be intrinsic in
everything you do. And sure, it comes later down
the line and further as a business evolves.
Often times it's really good to actually solidify those more
officially and then make sure that you're asking the question,
does this align with our brand values?
Is this what we should be doing? Is this right for our customer?
All of those things. But I think in the initial
phases, it's very much about like you just get them down by
making what you make and and doing how you do.
And loving. It and loving it.
Yeah. I think so much about the brand
was was around just like having so much fun and being so playful
and partying and enjoying yourself and all of those
things. And so I did have periods of my
life where I wasn't particularly happy and I really struggled to
create collections and those moments.
And I always used to think about musicians who would, you know,
write these Grammy Award-winning, multi platinum
selling albums off the back of a heartbreak.
And I'd be like, I can barely even come up with an idea, you
know? So how do you handle that?
Not well, I think if you look back at some of my collections
you'll see. But there's some darker ones.
Not darker, just crap. No, there's, there's a couple.
There's a couple of moments where you know, I can look back
and be like I wasn't in a good place at all.
And you can see that from. I can see it from the work, from
the product. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Because I think, you know, you know, it was so everything about
what we did was just about having so much fun as a team
when we were making it and that just infused through into the
product. And when the atmosphere or when
I was miserable in the studio, it was hard to fake that I
think. And I think that sort of, you
know, is a great testament to the authenticity of the brand in
one way and also kind of speaks to why maybe I realised that,
you know, the the natural time came for me to move away from
it. And I want to come on to that,
but I, I just on this sort of identity of the brand, I would
just love to know how you would describe the Henry Holland
Studios style DNA in three words.
Some of the words would probably be similar, like bold and
playful, I think. I think one of the reasons why I
really sort of felt drawn to my work in ceramics was after lots
of trials and lots of testing, I made something that I felt
looked like I'd made it. And you know, some, some of the
biggest compliments I would ever get about my work in fashion
would be those dresses look like you.
And I don't know how to explain that any better, but they, you
know, everything I made I tried to infuse with its own kind of
sense of personality. And I think that's exactly what
I tried to do with everything with my design language.
And I think that that was something that I, I discovered
in ceramics after a bit of trial and error, which is now our
signature technique. So I think bold and playful
definitely go across the two. And I used to describe House of
Holland as bold to the point of obnoxious, which it did have a
little bit or audacity. I prefer the word audacity in my
in my older, more mature vernacular.
So it's bold and it's playful and it's and it's it's organic.
Has Folland has got an organicness to it.
You know, I think the palette that we work with, the fact that
we're working with materials from the ground really play into
that. I think it's joyful, joyful,
bold, playful, organic. Yeah.
Love that. Looks forwards.
Now, Henry Holland, the fashion brand went into administration
during COVID. It did.
It's a tough moment there. Yeah, it was tough.
I think for me though, the tough, the toughest part was the
18 months prior to that point. I don't know if you've
experienced this similar, but I think those 18 months you're
trying everything that you possibly can to make to prevent
that from happening, to protect your team, to protect their
jobs, to protect everything that you've built.
I think at that point, you really I went through a real
personal thing, which sounds really selfish after saying all
of that about protecting my team.
But you, you question like yourself worth and what that's
going to be if you no longer have this thing that has been
such a big part of your life for so long.
It's how so many people know who you are.
And then and then at the point of making the decision that, OK,
it's you know, this, this isn't, this isn't going to not going to
be able to save this, this isn't going to happen.
And making that decision, then the the weight of the world just
lifts in an instant. And then you can actually lift
your head up again and see that there is a whole world that does
exist outside of this company that there is, you know, people
care about you, not necessarily your business.
I was really heartened by, you know, the response from people
that from everyone, really everyone kind of, you know,
there was a real overwhelming sense of empathy and care that I
got from both the industry and friends and family and everyone.
But yeah, it's it. It's a tough process to go
through. And then I think once you've
gone through it, like anything, you learn so much about it.
You learn to kind of detach yourself from what you do.
You learn that what you are is who you are isn't what you do.
There's so many lessons about that yourself worth isn't
connected to your output as a business person or as a brand
guardian or you know, and you learn that business is business.
And then I've been so fortunate to learn that, you know, you can
go on to completely different areas and business and like
build something completely different.
You know, it's been, it's it when you're in it, it really was
the lead up to it that was painful.
And also you're hiding it. You're by yourself.
You feel really isolated because you can't share it with your
team. You can't share it with your
usual kind of sounding board because you're effectively, you
don't want them to jump ship and you don't want them to think
that their jobs in jeopardy. You don't want them to think
that you're not doing anything. You know, it's a really
isolating, painful process. But yeah, the moment of that
happening is, is when it, it lifts and the, you know, the
brand still exists. Someone bought it.
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just £4.99 with. Code SD Glow Were you ever
tempted to buy the brand? No, no, I mean partly I didn't
have two pennies to up together. That's probably informed the
decision. I mean, I could have maybe gone
out and saw some fun day. I think I very much at the
moment that that happened, I felt like my time with that
particular brand was had run its course and I was proud of every
single thing that I'd done every single day that we'd, you know,
been working on it together with, you know, amazing group of
people. Some of my closest friends in
the world I started that brand with and still are today.
You know, we're a real, we were a real family, and that's why it
was so painful. But then I realized that, you
know, we're still a family, whether that exists or not.
And yeah, it was, it was sold on.
And I just realized that that wasn't where I needed to be
anymore. Do you miss fashion at all?
I don't miss it because I enjoy it in a completely different way
now. I mean, one of the one of the
struggles that I always had as a creative director, right, was
this endless cycle of collections and production and
manufacturing and distribution. You know, 4 collections a year
minimum, then additional collections and, you know,
collaborative drops and smaller little indents here and there.
That was relentless, exhausting, overwhelming.
But I'm a big shopper and so every time I go in a shop, I
want to see new stuff. And so I'd always be like, well,
I'd always be sort of looking at it from the point of view of the
consumer as well, but from our customer, be like, you know,
they want new if we want to keep them engaged with us as a brand
and not be kind of have their head turned, as they say on Love
Island by every other brand that's, you know, feeding them
something new every month. And we need to keep giving them
new things to talk about, new things to look at, new things to
buy. And so I was always torn because
I want new stuff, but at the same time, producing that was
overwhelming. It is.
And so now I'm I enjoy fashion. I was just looking at all the
couture shows in the car and the way here.
I just love enjoying fashion now without I used to shop with my
hands. I don't know if you you relate
to this as well, but I'd go in a store and I'd go in the men's
department for myself, but and also the women's department and
the women's part would always just be compare and contrast.
I'd be looking at what people had on the rails.
I'd be feeding their fabrics, I'd be checking their labels,
where they manufactured, where they produced, but how did they
get that? How did they get that made in
Portugal for that price? How do you know it would be this
going shopping was no longer enjoyable because it was like
this feeling of like constant comparison with your own output
and just not feeling, you know, as good as what you were seeing
on the shelves. And, you know, constantly be
sending photos from shop floors to my team being like, how do we
get this and look into this fabric?
And you know, and now I just get to enjoy it in its purest form
as as a real, you know, as an actual voyeur, a viewer.
Obviously the fashion world is in a in probably one of the most
complex moments it's ever been in.
I'd just love to hear your take on that.
I see. I, I think the period that I was
in the, in the industry and, and running my company, we launched
in 2006 and we went through to 2020.
And so social media didn't exist in 2006.
Direct to consumer wasn't really, you know, a thing you
would, you were pretty much solely reliant on wholesale
partners. It was very much built around
like the bigger the store, the bigger the order department
stores and things like that. And you know, now as of last
week, we've just lost, you know, Bergdorf's, Neiman's and Sax in
one day. I just think there's there was
just in that time that I was in business, there was a huge
explosion of brands, like huge. And so that kind of, it just
became like a, a devolved industry, right?
Rather than kind of like these really key heritage brands that
kind of managed everything. And then there was space for new
exciting brands to come up and take some time and develop and
grow and build. And now the, the market is so
saturated, it's so hard to cut through that noise.
And you know, with your, the communication channels now
you're not necessarily reliant on magazines, which is a good
thing. I, I agree that that's a good
thing. You know, you're able to get
your work out there, whether somebody else thinks it's good
or not. Because it is such a, as an
industry, it's, it's such a subjective industry.
You know, somebody, you might be creating something that's
amazing for your customer base and the press hater, but the
buyers love it. You know, you never kind of
understand how to kind of, I never figured out how to please
all three at once. Impossible.
Yeah.
And so, you know, there's there's less reliance on on that
old structure now where you know, which I think is good
because it gives so many more people an opportunity.
But at the same time it just creates such a crowded market.
I think to have a brand that lasts longer than 5 to 10 years
now is really challenging. It's really hard because, you
know, brands come and go a lot quicker.
I just think the life cycle has speed up of everything.
You know, our attention to our, our attention spans have
reduced. You know, our, our magpie
culture is that we're looking for the shiny new thing all the
time because we're so overwhelmed with information all
the time. So it's really hard to kind of
create your own editing process and kind of go through and
distinguish what is right for you and what isn't.
Surely that should give the big established brands a an
opportunity so that those people with no confidence can say, OK,
I'm a Ralph girl. I think it has.
I mean, if you look at the growth of the big heritage
brands in the last 10 years, they've gone stratospheric.
Fashion designers are the new rock stars, you know, And I was
making T-shirts about them 20 years ago.
Just say no. Yeah.
When I look back at the T-shirts now, I'm like, that was, I was
thinking it was such a good idea.
And, like, it wasn't. I never had this foresight at
the time, but it was basically creating, like, a band T-shirt
or a football shirt for fashion designers, for, like, the kind
of young emerging designers where, you know, if you wanted
to buy their work, it wasn't necessarily readily available.
And if it was, it was really expensive, but you could buy one
of my T-shirts to show that a, you kind of, it was like a nod
and a wink that you got it, that you knew who the new names were,
that you know, the Christopher Kane's, the Gareth Pughes, the
Giles Deacons, the Richard Nichols, like all of these
names. You know you by wearing one of
my T-shirts, you told the world you knew what you were talking
about and you were able to show your support for them for £50 I
suppose. It was really, truly brilliant.
What was the biggest number of T-shirts that you sold?
Oh gosh, I've no idea. No idea.
I do know that I was hand carrying boxes to the back door
of Brown's Focus on South Martin St. myself, I read.
That I love. That I think one of, I think one
of my biggest ever orders, like single orders was Barney's.
Julie Gilhardt who was at Barney's, she ordered a big, a
big order from me and I got them all printed in Kentish Town
where I was dead. And then I got them all
delivered to my flat in Chalk Farm.
And I was in this tiny flat where you could barely stand up
in the flat. It was all in the eaves.
There was, there was about 80% of the flat that you were like
this. And I just had these boxes
powered floor to ceiling. And I opened the shipping guide
and it was 55 pages long about all of the rules and
regulations. Because imagine shipping into
like a Barney's warehouse. It was like without a logistics
person, without a single member of staff, and then someone was
sitting on the floor and crying. So I was like, oh, I'm never
like, they were like, everything has to be like bar coded, like
packed by size. And I just had like these piles
of American Apparel T-shirts that were all folded as one.
I was like, what? I had no idea.
In the end, we got them in there.
They were a little bit late, but we got them in there.
I think that was probably my biggest ever single order.
Number. I was like, it's under 1000
T-shirts I think in one order. It's not bad.
You were sitting there, yes, in a panic.
Love it. It's not dribbling down my face
with ugly crying, pretty much. Now today I want to know more
like your personal style, your likes, your dislikes.
So we're going on a style journey together.
So when you got out of bed in the morning, how did you decide
what you were going to wear today?
Or did you plan it last night? It was definitely this morning.
I am very I put so much importance on my outfit for the
day and how it's reflective of my mood.
Like quite often I'll change my clothes to three times a day,
which. Is of your mood.
Yeah, because of how I want to present myself and how I'm
feeling. And sometimes if I'm feeling a
bit low, I need to uplift myself with my clothes.
Sometimes if I'm feeling a bit low, I want to disappear and
wear all black and so when I go travelling I get quite anxious
because I want to have all eventualities covered.
Yeah, I usually pack 2 to 3 outfits a day if we're going
away anywhere. Drives my husband mad.
He constantly bemoans how much I travel with and I'm like, why do
you care? You're not carrying my case?
Like why does it affect you so much?
Cases. Yeah.
So I definitely got dressed this morning and I was like, well
there's fashion about. Something on a bit fashiony.
Well, I'm wearing a labrum shirt.
He's an amazing British designer who I adore.
Photo is a great designer who makes amazing men's wear that I
really love. And then this is actually a
check it from Zara. Harry Lambert did a
collaboration with Zara and this is from one of his earliest
collaborations, I think, with them.
And then I've got our legacy jeans on some Doc Martins.
Very tonal, very tonal, very tonal today.
So what was your mood this? Morning.
I was, I was excited to come here today and I was like, we're
going to be talking about fashion the best because I work
in my studio now everyday. So my studio outfits and then my
out studio outfits are very different.
I've never had a job where that's the case.
So do you change when you go into the studio because it's
mucky? Depending on what I'm doing, if
I'm making and glazing, then yeah, I've got like an overall
that I'll just change into. But generally, I'll just wear
kind of much more casual, like Carhart pants and a hoodie that,
excuse me, I'll just wear a car hot pants and a hoodie, which,
you know, I've got a load of studio clothes.
It doesn't matter if they get a bit messed up.
Yeah. Yeah.
You grew up in Ramsbottom? I did.
Lancashire, Yes. Were you exposed to fashion at a
young age? I was definitely exposed to
style. I was raised by a very stylish
mother and my grandmother was very stylish as well and they
loved to go shopping to Cheers Cliffs on the weekend and you
know, by really like, they were very meticulous and stylish.
And my grandmother in particular was very into her, you know, the
way she dressed and the way she presented herself.
And then my mum was really stylish and was like,
fashionable as well. Yeah, fashion.
Did you go shopping with her? Constantly, yeah.
Sometimes she'd give me the day of school.
And did you offer your opinions? Always, always, yeah.
One of my one of our favorite things to do would be like, oh,
she'd she'd sort of send me off in Marks and Spencer's or
somewhere to go and find a pair of shoes that match something
that she was planning to buy. Or.
I would always. I would love going shopping with
my mum and my sister and helping them pick out their clothes.
And then I think when I first started to buy my own clothes
was when I really started to understand how powerful fashion
was and how it enabled me to kind of attach myself to certain
groups of people that I wanted to sort of align with.
You know, like, if you wanted to learn the cool kids at school,
you knew how to do that. And you would, you know, dress
in a certain way. And if you wanted to represent
yourself in a certain way, then your fashion, your clothes was a
really powerful way to do that. Do you remember the moment that
you first put something on that you felt completely different,
Completely. You got what you're talking
about. I think so, yeah.
I had bought this outfit. It's like this by Remind.
This is the early, late 90s, nineties, but some tartan dot
Martins and like a sort of matching tartan shirt.
And this was kind of Marc Jacobs grunge collection once it
reached Ram's bottom. Yeah.
So it was kind of probably about six or seven years later and
much more diluted. But that was when I was like,
OK, I can make myself look and feel much different than how I
maybe feel on the inside. Your childhood best friend was
supermodel Agnes Teen. Do you think you had an effect
on each other's style? Oh yeah.
Did you dress each other? 100%, yeah.
You go shopping? Yes.
Yeah. So we met through friends when
we were about 12 or 13, so we grew up in the same town.
And then I moved to London to go to university and Aggie started
to work in fashion and doing kind of occasional shoots
initially. And then coming down to London
more and more, I think she got an agency in Manchester 1st and
then moved to one in London. And then we moved in together
for my when I was in my second year at university.
And yeah, those are formative years, right?
For anyone, you know, in your late teens, early 20s, you're
really discovering who you are. And fashion was a huge part of
that. It was, you know, it was the
glory days of Camden. You know, Amy Winehouse was in
it, was there with the holy arms like it was this.
It felt like Camden at that time was the centre of the universe.
And we were absolutely in the thick of it, you know, having
the time of our lives really. And the fashion was distinctive.
You know, it was the skinniest jeans you could possibly squeeze
yourself into, Blazers, trilbies, like weird nods to
tailoring, like, you know, Blazers and waist coats and
trilbies and all of these kind of things, but worn in this
really dishevelled way, like you were supposed to look
dishevelled and. Where were you buying those
clothes at? Camden Market in Camden, you
don't have to go far. Yeah, or Topshop.
Topshop skinny jeans section was lit.
You could you'd bump into. You could bump into a whole band
if you were like a groupie in that moment and you were into
the Libertines or the Paddingtons or bands like that.
If you wanted to get an autograph, you just hung around
in the skinny jeans section in Topshop and they'll be there in
minutes. So you studied journalism at the
London College of Journalism, but what was your light bulb
moment in terms of fashion? So I was, I was working as a
fashion editor at teen magazines, magazine called Smash
Hits, which some of the audience will definitely be aware of, and
another one that was slightly less than known called Sneak.
And I was, I just, I had this constant, I used to buy all of
these slogan T-shirts from America and I used to wear them
a lot. And we used to wear them to
nightclubs that we used to go to 1 called Boombox in particular.
And all anyone used to wear at the time, we basically just
looked like we got dressed out of a pencil case.
Like everything was neon. It was as bright as it possibly
could be, metallic, neon patterned, all of this.
And so I sort of had this thing, I was like, oh, I'm going to
make these slogan T-shirts. I'm going to make these slogan
T-shirts. And everyone was like, do it, do
it. And I never got around to it.
And then eventually I did and I made 4T shirts and I think I
made these four T-shirts. You who Gareth Pugh get your
free con Giles Deacon cause me pain, Haddie Slimane and do me
daily Christopher Bailey. And those four names at the time
were kind of the centre of my fashion kind of universe, right?
So Gareth was like someone that I would go to parties with.
We were friendly and you know, I was in awe of his work.
Kind of like really couture style kind of club kid
referencing like amazing, like volumous work that was just like
out of this world. And then Giles was kind of like
the pinnacle of the London Fashion scene at the time.
And these are all these names and, you know, people that were
like at Boombox. And then the Christopher Bailey,
the Burberry movement and then obviously the Duorjon movement,
which was very of that moment. And so I made these four
T-shirts and they were just for me to wear really to Boombox.
And I think I made maybe like 10 or 20 of each and I'd wear them
and people, people come up to me all the time.
Like, where do you get that from?
Who made it? And so I just started making
more. And then some of the smaller
designers would come and ask me to make them for them, all this
stuff. So I think the moment, my
fashion moment, kind of, I don't know how to say this without
sounding absolutely heinous, but like sort of found me, you know
what I mean? I sort of, I sort of
experimented with this little playful project and it it really
resonated really quickly. It exploded.
Yeah, in a time when bit going viral wasn't possible because
social media didn't exist, they kind of went viral.
I. Remember it well.
Yeah. And it's it's, I mean, I can say
all of this, looking back at the time, I would never be so, you
know, cocky to say I went viral. But you know what I mean?
You did like looking back, you can kind of appreciate it.
And so, yeah, that kind of that moment when that happened, it
like it, it kind of I was like, oh, I could do something with
this. And then I think it was when
Lulu Kennedy asked me to do a show with Fashioniste, she was
like, do you want to do something with your T-shirts?
And I was like, Oh my God, there would be because my like, dreams
as a teenager was just like watching 90s fashion shows.
And I just like thought that they were just the epitome of
chic and. Style and like so like the old
like Versace shows from the Nice.
They were full on glamour. They were like rock concerts to
me. I used to sit at home my entire
teenage years watching fashion TV.
The music and the like the. Dior couture shows and those,
those Galliano shows were just like pure, like entertainment.
I'd rather do that than watch any concert or gig.
So when Luda meant that, I was like, do you think I could do a
fashion show? And she was like, yeah, I guess
so. If you want.
And so that, and it was the review of that show where Sarah
Mower was like, I mean, the jokes very funny.
But if he wants to be around for longer than 5 minutes, he's
going to have to think of something else.
And Ouch. But I thank her for that line.
I think I. And I was like, she's so right.
I mean, even then, because I'd done a show that was slogan
T-shirts that were slightly longer, so they were dresses.
And then I got a friend of mine to help me make some other
pieces. You know, he made some like I
made these coats and mats, but they were clear so you could
still read the slogans underneath.
You know, we made some pieces. But I, I completely agreed with
that sentiment to the point that when I came out for my bow at
the end of that show, I wore AT shirt saying 1 trick pony
because I, I called the collection 1 trick pony because
I wanted them to know that I knew that this was, I was doing
the same thing again. And I wanted to get in there
first. I wanted to, you know, maybe
that's my journalistic training, whatever, but I kind of, I
wanted to sort of, you know, have the opportunity to let them
know that I was in on it And I knew that this was feeling quite
1 trick pony. And so for the next season, we
did another show with Lulu and I did, I did everything, you know,
the fabric developments. We did prints, we did rubber
swimwear, I did denim. We did sunglasses with Linda
Farrow. Mulberry made my handbags.
I mean, that's a hugely steep learning for someone who isn't
trained and probably hadn't worked that much in other
houses. At all I'd.
I'd assisted some stylists, but carrying bags to music videos
was about it. But never been involved in the
construction of garments. Yeah, like, create, like, really
crazy brave and maybe just ignorant and really obnoxious.
Probably. But I think when my ceramics
business started, there was so many parallels to how it began
that the fear wasn't there because I I think the fear
wasn't there when I started in fashion because I was 22.
And totally ignorant. Yeah, and ignorant and thought
like, you know, I could, you know, rule the world like most
22 year olds do. And then when I started my new
business at 38, where probably I should have had a bit more like
reticence to go off and start a new brand, having just gone
through an administration about six months prior, that that fear
wasn't there because I recognised so many similarities
in the way that the the ceramic started and the T-shirt started.
People were responding to the product and it was I was taking
that lead before going into this.
I mean, my husband at the time was like, why can't you just
have a hobby? Why do you have to turn
everything into a business? Coming back to the Roman
couplets, do you have your own one for Henry?
So the funniest thing is I actually have a name that really
does not rhyme. I might as well be called
Orange. Orange like I I developed the
most of those one of the most bookmarked websites on my laptop
at the time was rhymezone.net and I'd be like put in someone's
name and they would go to Holland is tricky from because
it was usually everyone's full name.
So my I think the best I managed was we did a wedding dress which
was frosty crystaled Dutchess satin covered T-shirt for the
first show and it was who needs a husband?
I've got House of Holland, that was as close as we got.
It's tenuous. It's tenuous.
Yes, it's tenuous, but it's frustrating when you know, your
entire brand is built off this idea.
Like even our business cards, they were little credit cards,
like full plastic credit cards. And it was like, it's plastic,
It's hard. It's my business card.
And people used to love that, especially when you went to Asia
because business card culture is so, you know, so big there.
And we'd give over these credit cards.
People would absolutely like love them.
Was anyone ever offended? A couple, yeah.
I mean, I've got a couple of cease and desist, but never
about a slogan. Actually, I think I got a cease
and desist from Cher, which was devastating.
Oh. No.
Because I put her face on a dress but she tweeted it and
said works for me so I feel like.
Did you have a slogan under it? No, it's just a picture, but I
think that is more legally challenging and an illustration
of another designer that they didn't like the illustration so
far. Fundamentally, who do you think
you dress for? I think fundamentally I dress
for myself and how I'm feeling, but I also dress for the
situation. I think it's like a combination.
I dress for how I want to present myself in a situation,
how I want to come across. I think that was kind of why I
gravitated towards the industry in the 1st place was I love the
ability of fashion to tell your own personal story and that
story to evolve and change day by day.
Yeah. What's your power outfit?
Do you have one? My, my, like, my sort of power
outfits change like, but you do definitely have them as they go.
At the moment I have a really beautifully cut double breasted
kind of black tux, just like with a wide like trouser that I
really like to wear because you can kind of dress it up, dress
it down with a T-shirt. It's kind of yeah.
With a jazzy shoe or. Where's that from?
From AMI, the French brand AMI, which I think is amazing,
amazing stuff. You do sound like quite a
shopper. If you could only dress in two
brands, one designer, 1 High Street, which two would they be?
Like designer maybe. Like Marnie, I love how
colourful I mean it. The brands change now so much
with the creative director, Tammy is another one would wear
a lot that's kind of a good one that's kind of quite consistent.
And then High Street, I would probably have to say Zara I.
Thought that was going to be the case, yeah.
Did you say you've got a style icon?
My style icon was always my mother.
She was always very real kind of muse with my collections.
You know, I look back at some of the pictures of me and her when
I was a child, and I can see her outfits and be like, I built a
whole collection of that without even realizing.
You know, like with this one picture of her wearing these
sort of jade green, turquoise jumbo cords with a yellow fur
jacket and pink paint and ankle boots.
And I was like, that's not my first 3 collections.
Yeah. She was very much a kind of a
style icon for me in terms of how she dressed.
I think so many designers are gay men who idolize women,
right? I mean, you look at all there
was a real uproar about, you know, all of the new designers
and the lack of female creative directors, which is a real shame
because I think, you know, men make clothes for how we want
women to appear. And, you know, and it's often
because they are absolute idols, our Queens, our warriors, like
we dress them as such, whereas women dress women for the way
that they want to feel in their clothes.
And I think it's a real difference to that.
And I would, you know, I've worked with male with my own
brand, I worked with male designers and female designers.
And there's a There's a different approach.
So how would you describe your style DNA in three words?
It's quite schizophrenic because it very much it does ebb and
flow, but it is it for the most part, it is playful.
It's schizophrenic and it's it's changeable.
And I'd be out in the morning, I'd.
Be arriving to buy and shop for vintage, you have to be in a
certain mood. You have to be in a mood to go
and dig through, you know, rails and rails of similar things to
actually have the kind of the vision to see that one piece
that stands out from the other stuff on the rail.
So yes, I do do enjoy shopping for vintage.
Do you often when I'm away? Do you go with an item in mind
or do you go with just the the feeling of sometimes?
I mean recently I like was on the real humps and vintage
Levi's and they just had to be the right wash with the right
amount of distress. Often times I shop for a lot of
vintage shirts because I like, I like a vintage shirt.
Yeah, I like kind of vintage prints, vintage patterns.
Yeah, and the fact they're worn in the.
Fact that they're worn in and they're actually really
comfortable. Sometimes I find a kind of a too
big collar a bit much for me, but I'm better instructed things
appear around my face, much better instructed things like I
can't do you know, I wouldn't be able to do really a knit without
a shirt underneath very well. And you ever customize vintage
pieces? Do you ever change the colour?
Not anymore, because I don't have a seamstress at work.
But when I used to have a seamstress and some sewing
machines at the office, then I would use to I'd customize
things quite a lot. I'd buy a shirt in the sale,
whether it be vintage or new, and then I would take it to the
studio and get it taken in or taken up.
Yeah. You haven't got a little local
seamstress. I haven't got a local seamstress
on tap at the moment. It's a fine one, I know.
It's so important. I think as human beings,
particularly in the fashion world, we're a little guilty of
sizing people up when we first meet them by what they're
wearing. It's a sort of shorthand.
Is it something you're conscious of doing?
Yeah, we all do it. And I think that's why I love
fashion so much because knowing that I know that, you know, I
sort of, I dress myself for those situations knowing that
that's going to happen. So I'm telling people when
they're sizing me up, how I want to be perceived approached down
within that moment. I have a really bad habit.
I love shoes. I'm obsessed with shoes.
So I'll often meet someone, look at their face, then look at
their shoes in the back to their face.
But that looks like this a lot. Like I'm like literally looking
you up and down. Like I'm being really rude.
So what are their shoes telling you?
You can tell if someone's stylish or fashionable.
You can tell if someone's chic. You can tell if someone just
like you can. I don't know.
You can sell so much you can tell.
If so, you can. I can probably, yeah.
I would have. I would guess someone's age
after I'd seen their shoes more so you're wearing a a high
Bottega Chelsea with a with a gum.
So don't worry. I've seen it.
There you don't. I have them in all black.
Nothing hiding. What would you say is the
sexiest look on a man? A suit is pretty sexy.
It's a bit boring, isn't it? Where did you get married?
We got married in Casey Hayford. Charlie made us 2 suits so I
wore a black. I wore a black moire double
breasted dinner jacket for the day and then a mint green for
the evening. Gorgeous.
Which I still have to this day. And it's incredible.
And at certain points in the year, I can fit in it, but not
in January. Thank you very much.
No, you live in London, do you? Do you spend much time in the
country? Not as much.
So my husband grew up in the Lake District, like in a really
small village. And I grew up in Rami, which is
Ram's Bottom, which is, you know, it's surrounded by, it's
in the valley, it's surrounded by beautiful rolling hills.
So we're both quite city boys where, you know, we feel like
we've done our time in the country.
We we recognise it's drawbacks, you know, the isolation, the
kind of the lack of diversity and all other things which drew
us to the cities. The mud.
So we don't spend as much time
in the city. I'm sorry, in the country.
Wait. Yeah.
So what is stay at home, chill out Henry wearing?
Oh gosh, I don't even want to say out loud, but like some
really like we have been in our in our 40s, which we're now in,
we tend to just come home and put pajamas on.
Like, you know, people have like they'll put house clothes on.
I never really understood that. And like people that were like,
oh, I do now. And people are like, oh, we
don't want to get outside clothes on the bed of is that
what you're talking about? My dog's chair has my pillow.
What would you say was your worst fashion moment?
Oh, I. Have so many, so many.
Most of them from sort of 2005 to 2008 period when I was sort
of squeezed into these, the skinniest jeans and everything
was neon coloured. Had some yellow skinny jeans
which were not great. But not on my legs.
Banana legs, Yeah, absolutely. But I but I think if you've
never had a regretful fashion moment, then you've never really
gone for it. And so I really stand by going
for it. Is it exercise and fitness an
important part of your routine? It is, yeah.
Always been. Always has been, yeah.
When I was younger, I was a gymnast.
I used to do that like 4 times a week.
So I was very. I got bad knees and then I kind
of sort of, yeah. And then I was at an all boys
school and the bullies sort of set in.
So I sort of gave up and then yeah, sort of in my adult years,
like going to the gym, I've run 2 marathons.
Wow. Yeah, both London.
So going to the gym is just really good for my mental.
It's a really big part of my sort of mental health
maintenance. And in terms of grooming,
strikes me that your hair is quite signature.
It is. There's a four step process
which I've been doing for at least 25 years. 4 steps.
Four steps, salt spray, blow dry, straighten and then wax.
But it's very like, it moves, you know, it's malleable.
So how? Long does it all take you. 04
minutes. I mean, I've been doing it a
long time, but yeah, my, my mum had like quite big hair and
work. She we have a similar nose and
she taught me the bigger the hair the smaller the nose.
Tweakments. Yes, absolutely.
Bit of Botox, bit of filler. Why not?
Let's just talk about travel. Yeah, I love travel.
Packing. Packing I find quite anxiety
inducing because I, I'm never sure how I'm going to feel when
I'm away or what situation I'm going to be in.
And also the things that I really I, I like to make an
outfit are jackets and shoes and they're tough things to pack a
lot of because they take up a lot of space.
So I often have a separate case for shoes which.
But what happens if that case goes missing?
That has happened. Does that make you anxious?
When we went to Mexico a couple of years ago, we went to Puerto
Escondido. So the airport is tiny and we
were the last flight to arrive in the day.
And I literally just sat there by this the belt for hours.
No. And that the airport just slowly
just closed and I was just refusing to leave.
And my, my case did come two days later and my husband gave
me one pair of swimming trunks that he'd accidentally packed
twice. Like he bought them twice and
packed them twice. So he didn't even give, he felt
that I might want to wear this. He gave me one pair of spare
trunks and I I was actually quite I was very surprised
myself at how calm I was. It's fascinating, isn't it?
Just sort of working it out. How am I?
So do you take a wheelie with one outfit in?
Oh, just in case. Just in case, what, if anything,
do you feel you have an excessive amount of in your
wardrobe? Shoes.
How many pairs? Oh, nearly 50.
Well, that by female standards, that's pretty good, yeah.
What's your approach to sustainable fashion?
From 2 perspectives, really from one perspective.
When I was making fashion, it was something that I desperately
tried to like retrospectively introduce into our practices.
Which is hell. Which is hell retrospective.
When we started in 2006, no one had even mentioned the world
sustainability. It was, it was a new thing that
came through and something that I desperately wanted to, you
know, like instill, but your customer doesn't want to pay any
more for it. And it at the, you know, at the
time it was really challenging to do that without massively
impacting your margins or like really racking up your prices.
And then for myself buying things, it's definitely
something that I think about when I'm shopping, but it's not
something that I proactively go out and search for, if that
makes sense. Like I won't not buy a brand,
you know, I won't sort of research some more
sustainability credentials before buying from them, which I
probably should. Whereas now as a business person
and making, you know, homeware and the ceramics, it's a huge
part of what we do because I was so I was burned by, you know,
not addressing it early enough. And we're a fashion company.
So everything that we do from our packaging to our, you know,
the way that we use our materials, we use natural
materials anyway, but we reuse as much of our waste as
possible. We fire things as low as
possible. So we use little energy as
possible. You know, we use non-toxic
glazes. All of these things that we can
do are just in an intrinsic part of our business from day one,
and that was important. But coming back to your
wardrobe, what do you do with your clothes when you've had
enough of them? I'll sell them on vintage or
I'll donate them to the charity shop.
Let's spin on some quick fire questions.
What fashion advice would you give your 20 year old self?
Stop dying your hair. Oh my God.
I still dye my hair but I was dying.
But I was dying it like really silly colours, like it was
purple. Fashion trend would you or era
would you most like to see make a comeback?
Punk, you see, The thing is, they're all, they're all
floating around. Yeah.
Fashion or beauty trend that you would consign to Room 101.
The huge eyebrows of the North I'd.
Be amazed how many people refer to those slug eyebrows.
Your last impulse buy? Was a jumper a sort of an angora
knit jumper from Sunny? It's an Italian brand.
Views on tattoos. I love them.
I don't have a single one. I have wanted one since I was 18
and I'm always I've always got about 3 ideas in the back of my
head that I'm going to get done and then I just never get round
to it. I also know that if I get one
done by three months later, I'll have one on my like.
I'm quite an addictive personality, so I just know that
once the seal is broken, I'll have like my dog's name on my
neck within a week. So I it's probably best that I
stay naked. Yes, that I stay reserved.
Yes, grooming or well-being treatment.
You couldn't give up. Oh my hair dryer, does that
count? That's what that counts, Yeah.
OK. High end or High Street?
High end Savile Room or Levi's? Oh, both.
Double breasted, single breasted, double breasted Crocs
cute or puke? I I'm like in a group chat where
people live with my friends, just send pictures of Crocs and
just be like, what the fuck were these things?
And yeah, I have a pair for the studio.
I have a pair of tie dye ones and I have a pair recently.
I have a pair of Jean Paul Gaultier ones.
They they're both they are puke. But if you've never stood in a
pair, then come back to me. Gazelles or sambas?
Oh, Sambas. Sports Lux or Rock'n'roll?
Sports Lux. Cashmere or cotton?
Cashmere. Cargoes or chinos?
Both chinos. Trilby or Tracy?
Neither. If I cover my quiff with
anything, my head becomes the size of a pea and my nose
becomes the size of a freight train.
Trend or style? Style.
Colour or monochrome? Colour.
Print or plain. I see.
I would say print but I wear more plane.
Hoarder or editor? On the Hoarder.
Charity shop or resale? Resale.
Budgie smugglers or board shorts?
Board shorts. And finally, traditional last
question, at the end of the day, do you or don't you wear in bed?
Depends on the seasons, but I do wear I do wear pyjamas.
Henry, thank you so much, I have loved a romp through your style
journey. Thank you so much.
Just such fun. Thank you for having me.