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Alex was the longest serving 27 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,720 editor in chief of British Vogue and after 25 years stepped down 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,080 in 2017. She's now an author, speaker and 29 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,120 journalist specialising in fashion, media, retail, social 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,560 observation and women's issues. Hello and welcome, Alex. 31 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,720 Oh, hello, Amanda. It's. 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,840 It's been a while. Long time. 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,080 I mean, we were in each other's universe for many, many, many 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,640 years, Decades, dare I say. But I will never forget as a as 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,160 a young designer, you inviting me to lunch and it was at San 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Lorenzo's and it was in you had just taken over the helm of 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,440 Vogue and I and I was really touched, massively, massively 38 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,680 nervous about meeting you. But coming away from there and 39 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,880 thinking how approachable and normal you were. 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,360 Yes, miss normal. I think normal is my brand. 41 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,080 No, I, I think, I think approachable is and for, for 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,720 someone in that sort of position, which is sort of like 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,200 the Holy Grail of fashion. Yes. 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,720 I mean, the strange thing is that it's remarkable I ever got 45 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,520 that job. I mean, I, I knew nothing about 46 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,480 fashion when I went to Vogue. I mean, I knew less about 47 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,600 fashion than you would think was possible to know about fashion. 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,600 I knew so little because I knew a little bit because I'd edited 49 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,480 GQ magazine. So I was sort of aware of sort 50 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,360 of the fashion show thing through GQ, but I didn't really 51 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,080 go. I only went once to the fashion 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,680 shows with them. And though I had been on Vogue 53 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,160 in the features department, which was all about everything 54 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,880 other than fashion, it was kind of like complete chalk and 55 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,560 cheese. Nobody from the features 56 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,520 department had anything to do with the fashion, and nobody in 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,840 the fashion department had anything to do with features. 58 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,280 We were separate sides of the corridor in the magazine. 59 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,280 So I kind of quite literally, I would literally. 60 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,160 And I arrived at Vogue and I knew nothing. 61 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,680 But I always say to people, you know, ignorance is bliss. 62 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,160 If I'd known how little I knew, I might never have had the nerve 63 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,640 to do the job. But I think sometimes it's a a 64 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,800 massive benefit to bring someone right from the outside in. 65 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,000 It's a much more objective view. You're not going to be sort of 66 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,920 coloured by any influences that that you have already. 67 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,720 Well, it was because of the time. 68 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,200 It was. I mean, I think when 1 looks 69 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,519 back over Vogue editors, and I've done a lot of that over the 70 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,360 years, you know, sort of generations of Vogue editors, 71 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,840 basically they are of their time. 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,160 And I arrived in 1992 and, you know, we were in a recession, 73 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,720 British fashion industry was changing and you suddenly were 74 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,160 having all these guys like, you know, McQueen and Hussein, 75 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,520 Chilean and Galliano coming out of the out of the colleges. 76 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:48,480 So you had this kind of youth kind of pack coming up, but more 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,400 importantly, I think, or just as importantly, the High Street was 78 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,600 just beginning to really take off. 79 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,760 And so fashion became much more something that everybody could 80 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,840 have a piece of. And because of that kind of 81 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:08,240 democratization, I think my take on it had more relevance than 82 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,640 possibly it would have done in the 80s when it was more about, 83 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,440 you know, the the few big brands that that people knew like 84 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,200 Chanel and Armani and and actually British. 85 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,800 There were British designers, great British designers then, 86 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,880 but very much high end. So yeah, I was sort of right 87 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,840 place, right time, right place. Well, it it certainly worked. 88 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,760 I mean, out of interest, who do you think or what magazines do 89 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:41,720 you look at now as an outsider? We don't really read fashion 90 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,960 magazines. I get Vogue. 91 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,200 In fact, I was just reading the new issue of Vogue at breakfast 92 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,440 this morning and thinking how good I think chairman is doing a 93 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,880 great job with it. And it's it has a really nice 94 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,280 mixture of sort of fashion and features and it feels quite, 95 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,960 quite alive and on the on the ball. 96 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:12,120 But other than Vogue, I read a lot of interiors magazines like 97 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:20,680 Interiors and House and Garden, and a lot, a lot of periodicals 98 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,880 really. So like London Review of Books 99 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,120 and The New Yorker and The Spectator. 100 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,920 And I read all the time, I mean, in our bathroom, right? 101 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,200 We've just got this huge stack of periodicals that sits there 102 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,280 getting bigger and bigger because we've got too many to 103 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,280 ever get through. But you're both the same. 104 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:38,280 You both. My partner and I both 105 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:42,680 journalists. Yeah, yeah, I I've absolutely 106 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,040 loved listening to your dulcet tones in your in your book. 107 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,840 Oh, thank you. Clothes and other things that 108 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,080 matter. In fact, I ordered 1 and it 109 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,040 hasn't arrived because I wanted to get you to sign it. 110 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:01,760 But I absolutely loved that because it's so I suppose in a 111 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,680 way a bit like this podcast and talking about our relationship 112 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,200 with clothes and our memories attached to them. 113 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,200 And I I just wondered what inspired you to write that book? 114 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:20,080 Well, the, the, the, you know it, it's sort of the clue is in 115 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,320 the title. It is the other things that 116 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,720 matter that I was really interested in how you could look 117 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,200 at which you're doing here, how you can look at sort of other 118 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,480 aspects of life through how people feel about their clothes. 119 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,160 And I guess, well, to be completely honest, I needed 120 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,640 something to do when I left Vogue. 121 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,920 I mean, I left Vogue and I had no idea what I was going to do 122 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,400 with myself. I mean, again, looking back, I 123 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,760 think how was I really sort of brave enough to do that? 124 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,480 Because, you know, it wasn't like I had a huge sort of 125 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,520 fortune behind me. I needed to earn money. 126 00:07:54,520 --> 00:08:00,720 And so when I left, one of the things I thought, well, I know 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,240 I, I can write, so I should try and do another book. 128 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,680 And it was really, I think it was really looking at my 129 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,200 wardrobe actually, and sort of looking at how looking through 130 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,640 it and thinking about how I felt about items in it. 131 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:25,720 And I was quite inspired by Nigel Slater's book Toast, where 132 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,160 he writes a kind of autobiography through different 133 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,559 foods. So I guess I sort of slightly 134 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,640 copied that. I thought I can do a sort of 135 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,000 memoir, but it not a book all about me just taking different 136 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,720 items of clothes and and I really, really like that book. 137 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,080 I'm very proud of it. The only thing is that I've sort 138 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,000 of written everything I've got to say in that book on every 139 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,840 subject. So I'm struggling to find a new 140 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,720 one. But you write a weekly column 141 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,680 for the. Mail on Sunday. 142 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,360 Yeah. And and how does that work? 143 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,600 Do they? Do you literally say I want to 144 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,200 write about this, this and this? Yeah, I mean, I am unbelievably 145 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,320 fortunate. I mean, I think I've, I've 146 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,080 touched wood cause how could I be? 147 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,400 My editor is called Ted Verity, who hired me thinking it was 148 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,520 2018. And when I went to see him, I 149 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,440 said, look, Ted, you know, I'm not really a male writer. 150 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,000 You know, I don't share all your politics. 151 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:36,600 And I don't have that kind of very sort of popular polemical 152 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,080 voice that, you know, a lot of your writers have. 153 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,840 And it's very kind of you to offer me a gig writing for you. 154 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,280 But I just don't think that I'm going to be the person that you 155 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,880 want. And he was just so nice. 156 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,160 He said I've got the people who can do that. 157 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:53,400 I want you to be you. He calls me Island Alex. 158 00:09:53,600 --> 00:10:00,160 So most of the time, I think hardly ever has he ever 159 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,400 objected. I talk to him every Thursday 160 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,360 morning when I know what I'm going to write and I tell him 161 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,920 what my ideas are, and he will sometimes say he thinks one 162 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,760 thing's more interesting than another. 163 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,080 And when he doesn't like an idea, he says nothing. 164 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,960 So I always know which ones he doesn't like. 165 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,640 There's a silence, but he never says you can't write that and 166 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,200 you know it. I don't agree with it or you 167 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,400 can't write it. So, so long as I sort of write 168 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:32,080 something quite lively, I think he's, you know, he lets me get 169 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,440 on with it. But today we're going on your 170 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,520 style journey and I just wondered how you decided what 171 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,600 you were going to put on today. OK, well, I did think about it. 172 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:50,680 I thought Amanda's really chic and I can't possibly turn up 173 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,280 sort of just in something really sort of scrubby and old. 174 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,560 But on the other hand, she's going to ask me what I'm 175 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:00,240 wearing, so I can't wear something that sort of isn't 176 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,040 really me. So I was having a think and I 177 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,880 thought, well I also know that you film it, so I know that it's 178 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,960 kind of table up. People can see what I'm wearing 179 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,600 at the top. So hence there's a brooch I 180 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:18,760 know. Pins. 181 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,520 Is there a story behind the brooch? 182 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,640 No, not really, except for the fact that in the book Clothes 183 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,400 and Other Things That Matter, I did a a chapter on brooches and 184 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,480 pins and I was absolutely transfixed by Madeleine 185 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:35,720 Albright. Me. 186 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,080 Too collection where she wore brooches to message to message, 187 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,920 Yeah. So I've rather taken to 188 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,760 brooches. This one doesn't have a message. 189 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,640 I was going to say, So what? Am I receiving Hungarian paste? 190 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,880 I just think it's so pretty. You're not really. 191 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,160 I think you're just receiving somebody that likes something a 192 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,680 bit decorative. It doesn't. 193 00:11:54,680 --> 00:12:00,400 It looks really expensive and really real. 15 lbs. 194 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,400 Portobello Market No. Way it's gorgeous, I love it. 195 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,760 That's a a proper plug for Portobello. 196 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,280 So yeah, so I did think about what I was going to. 197 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,440 Wear and Navy cashmere. Navy cashmere. 198 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,920 I'm always wearing Navy. It's my kind of safe space. 199 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:17,880 It's a really, really good colour on. 200 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,840 You thank you. Well, they're different navies, 201 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:20,680 aren't there? And. 202 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,680 There are so many different navies. 203 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:27,120 I actually became obsessed last winter with wanting a Navy crew 204 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,480 neck sweater and I couldn't find one. 205 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,280 And actually I got Lucinda Chambers you I used to work with 206 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,360 to, to help me. And she was kind of sending me 207 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,520 suggestions, whatever. And none of them were quite 208 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:40,760 right. Nothing was quite right. 209 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,080 So I didn't get one. And then this autumn I thought 210 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,520 I've got to get that Navy crew neck again. 211 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,520 And I went to one of my favorite shops is a little boutique 212 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,400 called The Cross in Notting Hill. 213 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:58,160 And they have a brand of cashmere that I really, really 214 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,000 like called English Weather. And it's got sort of slightly 215 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,920 sort of boatneck. And I thought they would have 216 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,160 one, but they didn't. And all that cashmere was too 217 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,520 heavy this year. So this was the only one they 218 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,000 had. And actually, you won't be able 219 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,400 to see it on the screen, but it's not quite the perfect Navy 220 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,040 blue for me. I prefer something a little more 221 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,000 intense. This has got a bit of yellow or 222 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,240 something in it that I don't love. 223 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:30,960 But it does I I would see you in a slightly pinker Navy, if that 224 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,800 makes sense for a more purpley Navy, yeah, true Navy, yeah. 225 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,120 But yes, it's it's. 'Cause I've got a bit of a tan 226 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,880 from holidays I think this is OK, but it may not be so good 227 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,440 when I get pallid. I love it. 228 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,240 The the finite. Yeah, details of Navy. 229 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,200 Yeah, love that and the silver. So the silver is a skirt from 230 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,920 Wise. Is it called Wise and this? 231 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,680 So I have a friend called Victoria Howard, and she lives 232 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:03,000 at Castle Howard. Yeah. 233 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,240 And she had, three weeks ago, she, her husband Nicholas 234 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,040 Howard, and she gave a party for her 70th birthday and their 235 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,800 daughter Blanche's 30th birthday. 236 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,040 And it was called the Nui Blanche. 237 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,360 And it was at Castle House, absolutely beautiful. 238 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,080 And the dress theme was white and silver. 239 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,680 So I got the skirt for the silver. 240 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,240 What do you wear on top? I wore a white beaded Jenny 241 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,760 Packham top that I got. Old or new? 242 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,480 Old lovely. Yeah, lovely Shopping in your 243 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,720 wardrobe now. You grew up in London, Was you? 244 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,400 Was your mother Very stylish? Well, my mum, who's 97 now, is 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:58,560 still stylish. Yes, she she loved clothes and. 246 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,280 Because she had a hell of a career. 247 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,040 Didn't. She, yeah, she was a journalist 248 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,400 all her life and, and, you know, only gave up really in her 80s 249 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,360 and because she worked, was full time. 250 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,920 So the only time really that we got to see her when we were 251 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,920 little was when she was getting dressed, I realized. 252 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,520 And we'd go into, you know, her bedroom because she'd be getting 253 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,840 dressed to go to work and then we'd go to school and then she 254 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,960 wasn't there when we got back because she was still working. 255 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,040 And so I'd watch her get dressed. 256 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,520 And I still remember things like her putting her stockings on, 257 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:40,320 you know, with the girdle and, and then her clothes, although I 258 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,600 don't remember the clothes when she was actually at that stage. 259 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,320 I remember her clothes more when I was a little bit older and she 260 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,000 was very into things like isimiyaki and Yoji Yamamoto. 261 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,920 She was working at that point. She was editing Bride's Magazine 262 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,920 for Conde Nast. That was quite early days for 263 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,720 Yoji. And no, no, she was very 264 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,240 forward. Forward thinking I love the 265 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,880 thought of you as a little girl watching your mother put on her 266 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,560 suspender belt. Yeah, and it seems so glamorous. 267 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,880 Yes, I couldn't wait to wear stockings. 268 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,160 And and do you remember the first moment that you tried on? 269 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,280 Yes, I do. Oh my God, yes. 270 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,480 So by that time, you know, that girdle, thank God, had gone, but 271 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,880 you had those little suspender belts, you know, with sort of 272 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,600 that cut. Into. 273 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,560 Everything. Yes, absolutely. 274 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,720 But I was very young, I think then, I mean, I must have been 275 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,440 maybe 12 or something. No, you know, I was so desperate 276 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,160 to wear stockings. So I had my, I had my stockings 277 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,800 and suspended belt, but I can't have worn it very often because 278 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,320 you couldn't wear them to school or anything. 279 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,760 So. But do you remember the the 280 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,440 first time you put something on that you felt transformed by it? 281 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,119 No, not really. I I have very clear memories of 282 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:12,200 of bits of clothing that made me feel good, but they didn't 283 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,119 transform me into being anything other than what I was. 284 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,960 So what was that first bit of clothing that made you feel 285 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,200 really good or otherwise, or not? 286 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,880 Yes, well, lots of things when I was little that made me feel 287 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,760 otherwise. Most of my clothes when I was 288 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,920 little, such as tartan trousers. My mother used to make me wear 289 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:36,120 hideous tartan trousers, scratchy sort of tweed dresses 290 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,440 that were sort of the sort of mode at that time. 291 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,440 What kind of shift sort of it was in the 60s and we had, there 292 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,360 was a shop around the corner. It was called, I think it was 293 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,400 called Deborah Davis, but I might be wrong. 294 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,200 And she made these kind of scratchy tweed shifts, mini 295 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,160 shifts that we had. But at the same time, there was 296 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,680 kids in gear, which was heaven on earth. 297 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,520 And you had these big, I had these big kind of kids in gear 298 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:06,040 belts that you could wear with beaded bolaros and flares. 299 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,920 And that was all, you know, 10 or 11 kind of thing. 300 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,800 Kids in gear in the Kings Rd. And were you choosing it 301 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,840 yourself or were you going with your mother? 302 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,760 Yes, you must. Going with my mother, yeah, 303 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,640 yeah. But did you wear a school 304 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,080 uniform? My primary school was a school 305 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,240 called Lady Edian Eden's. Not only did we wear a uniform, 306 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,200 we had to wear gloves. Oh, my goodness. 307 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,000 Yeah. Gloves and white gloves in the 308 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,680 summer and, you know, wooden gloves in the winter. 309 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,920 And pinafores and boaters. You know, the whole shebang. 310 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,480 And then I went to Saint Paul's and Hammersmith where you didn't 311 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,200 have to wear a uniform, but you did have to wear a coat until I 312 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,160 think it was like the third year there. 313 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,720 And you used to go to school on the school bus. 314 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,200 And it's so weird this really, because you didn't have to wear 315 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,880 a uniform. But I was really jealous of the 316 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,360 girls on the school bus who went to another school in West 317 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,400 London, which was Godolphin in Latimer. 318 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,960 And they did have to wear a uniform and they were proper 319 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,080 Centrinians, you know, they all had these kind of miniskirts. 320 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,440 Yes, exactly. I was really jealous of that. 321 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,000 I don't know why I didn't think. I suppose my mom wouldn't let me 322 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,160 go out like that in my own clothes, but. 323 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,640 But did you feel pressure back then to come up with your school 324 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,880 look? I was quite rebellious in terms 325 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,640 of clothes the teachers didn't like sort of what I wore. 326 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,120 I was always getting told off for it and. 327 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,680 Because. Because it was sort of not. 328 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,680 It was just a bit too sort of probably a bit too hippie, a bit 329 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,840 too trendy, always been a bit too hippie. 330 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,880 And when I got the vogue, everyone sort of said, oh, you 331 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,280 know, hippies gone to vogue. But there wasn't, I don't 332 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,040 recollect that kind of pressure that people say about schools 333 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,800 with no uniform with, with everybody being very competitive 334 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,120 about clothes. I don't think we were in those 335 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,640 days. It was the 70s. 336 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:07,280 And I just don't think people had that same feeling about, you 337 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,720 know, there were no brand. None of us wore brand names. 338 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,760 We all dressed out of jumble sales. 339 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,600 There was a brand name. It was Bieber and Laura Ashley, 340 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,480 the two brand. Names and then Miss Selfridge. 341 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,880 And then Miss Selfridge. Yeah. 342 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,440 And then more and more and more came. 343 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,040 Yeah. What do you think was your light 344 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,960 bulb moment in terms of fashion? Gosh, I'm not sure I've ever 345 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,880 felt that way. I'm very schizophrenic about the 346 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,240 way I dress and, and clothes. You know, sometimes I'm all kind 347 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,240 of Navy blue and quite tailored, and then sometimes I'm all 348 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,080 completely kind of bright pink and sequins and, and I have, I 349 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,440 think like a lot of people, you know, there are moments when I 350 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,240 feel, yes, I've got it now this, this looks good. 351 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,800 I'm right. And then, you know, a few months 352 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,400 later, suddenly it doesn't feel that way. 353 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,360 It all sort of feels suddenly all wrong. 354 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,240 Is there someone that you would go shopping with that you really 355 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,880 trust their opinion, you just go to yourself? 356 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,200 Absolutely not shopping with other people. 357 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,160 I go shopping by myself. Anywhere in particular that you 358 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,880 love? No, actually a wide variety, you 359 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,240 know, I mean, I'll go to, I'm not brilliant in department 360 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,280 stores. They kind of freak me out. 361 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,360 But I might go and have a look in like Selfridges and sort of 362 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:37,120 see what's there and get an idea for maybe what designers doing 363 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,920 what. I used to wear a lot of Prada. 364 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,640 Prada has become so expensive now. 365 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,400 I mean, it's just unbelievable now. 366 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,560 It's eye watering isn't? It, yeah, something was 367 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,720 beautiful, yeah, but something completely different. 368 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,720 I mean, it used to be what we would we could all buy if we 369 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,600 sort of saved up and now you know. 370 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,400 Had a Vogue discount. And had a Vogue discount now. 371 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,040 And had a Vogue discount. And if anyone's listening in 372 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,440 Prada, do I still have a discount? 373 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,920 I hope you. Do I wouldn't dare ask, but now 374 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,800 it's like, you know, the skirt I last wanted there was 7000 lbs, 375 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,600 but I'm not going to buy a Prada skirt for 7000 lbs. 376 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,480 But I sort of know there are designers that I will that I 377 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,000 know I like like I like Grace Wales bonus. 378 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,800 I'll have a look and see what she's got. 379 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:33,040 A Saloni I like, I like. Who else do I like or dropped 380 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,480 off my head at the moment? But you know, I'll look first of 381 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,560 all at the designers that I last bought and see what they're 382 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:39,880 doing. Erdem. 383 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,280 I love Erdem. But that's not cheap either. 384 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,800 No, but it's not Prada. Now, you famously edited Vogue 385 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,360 for 25 years. Do you remember what you wore on 386 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:58,200 that very first day in the job? I went to Bronze and I bought a 387 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:05,400 Lolita Lampica black jacket with zips all over it and I already 388 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,680 had a black skirt, so. And in fact, all the pictures, 389 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,080 the press coverage of that show me in that sort of scimitar kind 390 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,840 of zips everywhere I think I wore, which I feel slightly 391 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,640 agonised about. But I think what I wore the 392 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:30,160 first day was a Joseph Bright turquoise sort of coat jacket, 393 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,800 you sort of to the knee with a pair of black trousers 394 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,760 underneath it and it had silver buttons. 395 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,520 Why are you agonized about that? I. 396 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,440 Don't know because I think probably it didn't look great. 397 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,960 During your tenure at Vogue, you've had to dress for some 398 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:51,720 pretty big moments. I mean, 100 years, you know, 399 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,080 and, and it's been well documented, but you were asked 400 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:00,920 by the then Kate Middleton for your list of who, your 401 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,000 suggestions as to who would be good designers and be fascinated 402 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,480 to, to know who was on that list, you know, and then you 403 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,120 didn't know who she'd chosen until the day, but you actually 404 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,880 attended the wedding itself. What did you wear? 405 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:21,760 Well, first of all, I strongly advised McQueen because I 406 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,600 thought she'd get on with Sarah Burton. 407 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,440 I thought that was genius, by the way. 408 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,120 I thought that was so right. And it had to be a British 409 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:34,480 designer and there weren't that many people who would have. 410 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,840 There was also a security element. 411 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,720 So although there may have been sort of young, smaller 412 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,680 designers, they just wouldn't have been able to deal with the 413 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,280 security. So there weren't that many 414 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,880 people that were actually in the frame, but yeah, I, Christopher 415 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,480 Kane made me an outfit and I've still got it. 416 00:24:53,560 --> 00:25:00,560 And it was a, a sort of sequin, but a sort of dull blue sort of 417 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,280 sequin skirt. But so it sort of shimmered more 418 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:10,640 than sparkled like this. And a a Navy sort of beautiful 419 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,360 kind of woolen. It's not a woolen tank top, but 420 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,080 it's a vest, but it's sleeveless top sort of tank and a matching 421 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:28,360 jacket short. And I got had a pair of Manolo 422 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,000 blue shoes that I think I already had pair of blue shoes. 423 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,440 And then Kate Tarpani made me this. 424 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,960 I don't really. Well, I do wear hats a bit now, 425 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,360 but I didn't like the idea of wearing a hat. 426 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:44,080 But she made me a kind of headdress. 427 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,200 And so I, you know, I showed her what I was wearing and she made 428 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,720 a headdress to go with it. And yeah, I've got all of that. 429 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,640 It was very exciting. Not all in one go. 430 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:02,560 I've worn the tops a lot. I wore the headdress when I went 431 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,160 to collect my CBE. Interesting, what else did you 432 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:17,280 wear for your CBE that? I wore a Navy again. 433 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Navy. Yeah, Forte and Forte. 434 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,880 It's a beautiful coat, actually. And I was wearing it the other 435 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:32,120 day and it had this kind of, it's like a a loose coat. 436 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:37,480 It was in a kind of a linen, not not structured. 437 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,240 And it's got the most beautiful dark aquamarine satin trim on 438 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,560 it. And I can't remember what I wore 439 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,560 under that. I don't think you could see it. 440 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:57,320 I remember when I got my OBE Nonswanx, I wore Louis Vuitton 441 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:03,680 bright pink jacket, one of those sort of Marc Jacobs collections 442 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,120 for which had sort of these lovely raffia buttons, and it 443 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,120 was very fitted and wasted. And I've still got that. 444 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,800 I can't quite find another time to wear that. 445 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,480 That one's a harder one. Do you archive your sort of 446 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,720 those important? No, I wish I had. 447 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,880 I wish I'd kept things. I mean, I gave so many things 448 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,400 away. When I think of what I gave 449 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,800 away, I can scarcely bear. It I know because when I was 450 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,040 listening to your book, 'cause I listened to it rather than read 451 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,720 it, I and you talk about you have 500 and something pieces in 452 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,080 your wardrobe. I thought, my God. 453 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,200 MMM, that's actually when you count in bras and knickers and. 454 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,320 Not that much. It's not that much. 455 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,040 Did you do a massive clear out after Vogue? 456 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,400 No, I just gave away all the time. 457 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,720 I was all. The time I gave close. 458 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,720 I've still got a lovely green skirt of yours with, you know, a 459 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,680 zip. Oh good. 460 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,400 Dark green, yes, which is absolutely lovely. 461 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,160 I wear it when I want to look really smart. 462 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,200 I think you wore that to our 25th anniversary dinner. 463 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,800 Yes, at Harry's. That's right. 464 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,440 Yes, absolutely right. God, I had amazing Gucci pieces. 465 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:21,720 Prada, Alberta Ferretti, Armani. I gave them away. 466 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,120 I gave a lot of them to Oxfam. Oh my God. 467 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,360 I know. I mean, I didn't have the. 468 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:33,920 Room. I didn't have the room and there 469 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,080 were quite a lot of things, and this might be difficult to 470 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,640 understand, but pieces that I felt were more like a uniform or 471 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,240 a costume than they were me. So I didn't have an emotional 472 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,040 attachment to them. I mean, I wish I had them now 473 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,760 because because they wouldn't be work anymore. 474 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,880 They're just, they're just beautiful pieces and I would 475 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,480 love to wear them. But at the time they seemed to 476 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,880 me, yeah, to be to be a be a uniform. 477 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,400 So I didn't mind giving them away. 478 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,000 I mean, I'm always fascinated by the show season. 479 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:16,400 It's incredibly intense. You're there watching 6810 shows 480 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,760 even in a day. Maybe as editor, probably more 481 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,000 like 6. Often 10. 482 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,560 Yep, and you were going literally from New York, 483 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,400 possibly straight to Milan. How did you plan your wardrobe 484 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,440 during that time? That was a sort of pressure 485 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,440 moment because you did have to have new clothes, really did 486 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,240 have to show that you were sort of aware that the season had 487 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,760 changed. So it was sort of manic shopping 488 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,600 trip before the shows. So when I I'm just trying to 489 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,000 think because it used to be actually that New York came at 490 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,160 the end in the 90s, you remember. 491 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,200 And I think London was first, yes, I think. 492 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,080 You're right. So, and then it would be Milan 493 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,760 and Paris and then there was a gap until New York. 494 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,320 So you know, London you didn't really have to sort of worry 495 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,280 about because you were at home. Paris and Milan that packing was 496 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,800 quite, quite a, quite a big thing. 497 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,840 I just took a lot of luggage. And you, I mean, being 498 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,520 surrounded by these Uber, Uber stylish, stylish. 499 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,880 Was there anyone in particular at Vogue that you sort of could 500 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,320 pressure test your looks with or did you just always rely on you 501 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,680 how how it made you feel? Well, Amanda, very, very early 502 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,760 on, I knew I couldn't play that game. 503 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,960 I knew that that would I would go mad. 504 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,320 You know, I wasn't going to be a clothes horse. 505 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,040 I wasn't going to look great in the clothes. 506 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,560 I wasn't going to be Karine. I wasn't going to be Anna. 507 00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:00,400 I was going to be me. And so I never felt any need to, 508 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,800 to sort of run my looks through other people. 509 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,280 And I, I think actually they were probably horrified 510 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,920 sometimes it. Wasn't as much to run your looks 511 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,280 through, it was just you had so much talent around you, you 512 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,800 know, And I think of people like Kate Phelan who is the classic 513 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,920 white shirt, blue jeans, wonderful. 514 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,600 Girl, but you know, but Kate Phelan's a classic white, white 515 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,760 shirt, blue jeans. Girl, I couldn't wear white 516 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,200 shirt, blue jeans so. She, and I'm not suggesting you 517 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,920 would, but but she's also brilliant stylist. 518 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,600 Yes, I'm just trying to think. No, not really. 519 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,240 I don't think I ever did do that. 520 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,320 I don't think it ever occurred to me, actually. 521 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,600 I mean, Vogue House must have been a revolving door of 522 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,280 fantastic freebies walking through the door day and night 523 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,120 from brands trying to Curry favour with the magazine. 524 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,600 It never seemed like that to me. I mean, people, yeah, people did 525 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,640 did send a lot of stuff and it's quite hard to explain. 526 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,680 I mean, I think it was more to be honest, not so much that 527 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,880 people were sending in freebies. It would be more like for the 528 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,880 fashion editors, they'd go on an appointment and somebody would 529 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,760 offer them something. So it wasn't so much that tons 530 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,440 of stuff was just coming to the office randomly. 531 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,680 It was more kind of individualized than that. 532 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:33,760 And then there was this point back in the 2000s and something 533 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120 where my boss, Jonathan Newhouse, suddenly got the kind 534 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,320 of started to think that everybody had to behave more 535 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,800 ethically. And he put in place a kind of 536 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,720 gifting policy which basically meant that you couldn't accept a 537 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:54,640 gift in theory and that you had to pay into a chat if you wanted 538 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,080 to keep a handbag. Say you gave me a handbag. 539 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,920 If I wanted to keep that handbag, I would have to make a 540 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,080 donation to charity. That was a kind of, you know, 541 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,040 not just £5. Well, I mean, I don't think that 542 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,760 really ever happened very much. I mean, it's, it's part of the 543 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,960 job. It's a nice idea, but and then I 544 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,120 would see other editors in other magazines, you know, other Vogue 545 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,520 editors, I will nameless, you know, draped in free furs and 546 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,480 things. And I was thinking, well, 547 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,960 they're definitely not making a contribution to the charity 548 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,000 fund. The equivalent of the value of 549 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,720 said fur. I mean, I can't imagine. 550 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,760 Just sort of talk me through when you would arrive in Paris 551 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,080 for the couture shows and you would go up into your beautiful. 552 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,080 Room. Beautiful room. 553 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,920 And would it be filled? With filled with flowers. 554 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,920 Flowers. Filled with flowers. 555 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,640 I mean, Karl Lagerfeld sent the most beautiful flowers that I've 556 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,600 ever seen in my life always and. Did you keep the notes? 557 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,720 And the notes I kept, well, I kept the notes that were nice. 558 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,720 Sometimes there were not such nice notes from him. 559 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,720 Oh, tell me. There was one time when he went 560 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,560 completely furious about a book review that we ran in Vogue, 561 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,679 which was by a very, very good book called The Beautiful Fall, 562 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,840 which was about Carl and Saleron and written by a very good 563 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,480 journalist, Alicia Drake, who we had used in the magazine. 564 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,560 And Carl hated the book. And he was absolutely furious 565 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,360 that we had run a review. And when I reached Paris that 566 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,679 time, there were no flowers. But there was a very long letter 567 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,080 from him about, yes, handwritten, about how appalling 568 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,000 it was. And you know how disloyal it was 569 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,239 to, to, I mean, it never entered my head that there'd be any 570 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,360 problem. But apart from that, most of the 571 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,360 time he was very sweet and he wrote really nice and, and did 572 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:01,280 little illustrations as well. In the very early days, Versace 573 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,240 would actually sometimes, you know, gift a jacket or something 574 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,240 like that. Prada always had handbags in 575 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,360 Milan. Again, in the early days, it all 576 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,960 sort of slightly changed as time went by, but, but the flowers 577 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,960 were the main thing. Amazing flowers. 578 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,040 How gorgeous and did you? It must have been almost a sad 579 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,360 moment leaving that room at the end of your trip with this. 580 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:28,920 Oh yeah, I would sometimes take the flowers. 581 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,280 I remember one time getting on the Eurostar with all these 582 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120 flowers that I wanted. It just seemed so sad to leave 583 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,520 them there. Had this huge bunch of flowers 584 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,720 and as usual, 1 was desperately running to get the the sort of 585 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:45,360 the last train out of. Yeah, Paris and then of the, you 586 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,280 know, and the, the, the conveyor belt with all these flowers. 587 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,360 Now I heard a story, and this may be fact, it may be fiction, 588 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,280 but I wonder if you could cast any light on it. 589 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,920 Ray Kawakubo used to send sort of weird and wonderful gifts, 590 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:07,400 and there was one season that she had sent key editors vacuum 591 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,880 packed chartouches. And of course a chartouche or a 592 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,240 pashmina or whatever in a vac pack probably looks pretty 593 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:21,720 disgusting and that a lot of the editors took one look at it and 594 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:24,240 didn't even open it and flung it. 595 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,600 That must have been before my time, or otherwise she didn't 596 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,000 think it was worth sending. Can you imagine the grief? 597 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,040 Yes, the the sort of self pity you would feel. 598 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,760 They would have felt so stupid. What a clever idea. 599 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,200 Brilliant. Yeah. 600 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,560 And those who those that unwrapped them and those that 601 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,400 didn't, yes, I, I don't. I never heard that story, but it 602 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,640 sounds totally credible. I I think it is totally credible 603 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,720 now. I know you love your Manolos. 604 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,680 Was that always the case even before you became editor? 605 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,440 No, no, I never had Manolos before I became editor. 606 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,880 So tell me your take me on your Manolo journey. 607 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,840 Well, really it start, you know, when I went to Vogue and I met 608 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:14,760 Minello, I hadn't met him before and he, I'm just trying to think 609 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,440 of my first. I would have gone into the shop 610 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,880 in the Church Street. Exactly. 611 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:29,960 And just, I'm trying to remember if I can remember my first pair 612 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,960 of Manolos, but I don't think I can, but I did. 613 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,920 I could order them from, you know, from the show what they 614 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,320 called open days, you know, press days. 615 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:53,800 And so I've still got some really beautiful like 616 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,280 embroidered Manolos that actually my feet can't fit into 617 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:03,400 now, but they're just so lovely. And then I became kind of 618 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,600 addicted to these white Manolos that he I always. 619 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,760 Think of you in your white. Manolo and I still wear them. 620 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,480 When I left he gave me I think it was 4 pairs. 621 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,720 Oh. How lovely, I know. 622 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,920 And were they custom made for your foot? 623 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,240 Well, they were custom made. The heel was custom made because 624 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,440 it wasn't a usual. It was 90 centimetres, which 625 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,600 wasn't his usual heel height. It was higher than. 626 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,920 That the whole last was custom made, Alex. 627 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,600 Right. OK, that was custom made. 628 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,680 And though I love those shoes and I still think I still wear 629 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,480 them, even though that sort of those kind of pumps aren't very 630 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,040 fashionable because somehow they're just he's, he's a master 631 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:56,160 at making making the shape of your leg look better. 632 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,840 Yeah, and the comfortable shoe. And the. 633 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,080 At whatever height, I think he is a genius at that. 634 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,120 I really do. And and I agree, those pumps, 635 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,840 they sort of come and go, but they're they're sort of forever. 636 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,320 I think so, yeah. Forever. 637 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,840 In my wardrobe, anyway. I mean, you've had some pretty 638 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,760 cruel things written about you over the years. 639 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,000 Does that I I'm just how do you let that wash over you? 640 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,480 Or does it ever? Has it ever got to you? 641 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,280 I don't think any of the things that were written about me when 642 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,920 I was editor of Vogue, which were mainly to do with the size 643 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:45,920 I was, my appearance not being, not having sort of grown up 644 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,600 within the fashion community, that never bothered me. 645 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,480 I don't know why just didn't. And it's extraordinary if you 646 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,800 think about if that was today, that just would not happen. 647 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,920 I think because I'm a journalist and always have been, you know, 648 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,320 I don't really mind what people, I mean, if they write something 649 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,960 completely untrue, I mind. So I have minded what's been 650 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,160 written about me since I left Vogue. 651 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,000 After I left Vogue, where a lot was written about me and 652 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,080 portrayed me as somebody that was kind of racist because I 653 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,920 didn't have enough black people on the staff. 654 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,000 And I really minded that because it was completely untrue and I 655 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,280 no longer was in a position where I could sort of retaliate. 656 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,280 Yeah. Yeah, very common. 657 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,120 I mean, I often talk about clothes being our armor. 658 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,560 Do you think you've ever used clothes in a protective way? 659 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,520 Absolutely. I think that I use clothes. 660 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:57,920 I mean, I use clothes as I mean, sometimes now in my life, it's, 661 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,880 you know, I'll have a real mixture of things that I'm doing 662 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,560 in a day and I'll often go home and change in order to sort of 663 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,920 change the costume, which in a way is an armor, you know, 664 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,840 wanting to appear a certain, a certain way. 665 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,320 I mean, I think as human beings, and particularly in the fashion 666 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:26,320 world, we're quite susceptible to looking or to reading what 667 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,440 other people are wearing. Is that something you're 668 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,200 conscious of? Yes, I mean very much so. 669 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,800 And quite often now when I sort of do talks, so I'm speaking, I 670 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,680 often find that I'm asked to speak to, to groups of women. 671 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,120 And, you know, clothes is a big subject, not just for me but for 672 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120 them. And, you know, I always say the 673 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,840 thing about clothes is that it is the first thing that 674 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,640 somebody's going to notice about you. 675 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,720 You might think you don't care about your clothes, but you sort 676 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:02,040 of have to care about your clothes because by making the 677 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,160 statement that you don't care about your clothes, you're 678 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,400 making a statement. Yeah. 679 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:06,200 Yeah. Do. 680 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,240 You have a style icon. Mucha Prada. 681 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,480 I love our Mucha Prada. And so one of the things I most 682 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,160 enjoyed when I edited Vogue was to to meet Mucha in Milan. 683 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,240 I mean, she was quite frightening because she sort of 684 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:30,560 doesn't take, you know, she's clever and she would always just 685 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,720 arrive just looking so amazing somehow. 686 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:36,440 She'd sort of, you know, she'd have her kind of her sort of 687 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,680 sort of straggly hair and she's sort of olive skin with these 688 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,800 absolutely amazing jewelry always on these earrings that 689 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:49,760 literally worth thousands of pounds with some kind of ugly 690 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,280 broggy shoes, you know, from the Prada collection and a pair of 691 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,200 socks and brown legs. And then this kind of sort of 692 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,680 every, everything just a bit off, but all looking like it was 693 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,680 so on, you know, and it's so clever. 694 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,000 And I think I've never seen her not look fabulous. 695 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,840 Absolutely. And you know, she whether she's 696 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,200 wearing a kind of, sometimes she wear, wears sort of little kind 697 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,280 of trouser suits, sort of narrow sort of Capri pant trouser 698 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,120 suits, which looks so great. But then she'll always kind of 699 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,160 wear them with these heavy shoes, you know? 700 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,040 Yeah. I mean, it's always just that 701 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,760 little bit off, but it's so right. 702 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,760 Yeah, yeah. So I think she's probably, she's 703 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,680 the person whose style I most admire. 704 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,920 How would you describe your style DNA in three words? 705 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Comfortable, eclectic, comfortable and and individual I 706 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,800 think. I like that. 707 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,000 Yeah, thank. You. 708 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,400 Thank you. Would you say you've had a worst 709 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,960 fashion moment? Yeah, I think actually one of my 710 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,880 worst fashion moments was at the Met Ball. 711 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:13,160 I only went to the Met Ball once, and it was when Burberry 712 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,600 was sponsoring it and Vivian Westwood's team. 713 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,600 Very kindly made me a dress because I wanted to wear British 714 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:30,080 and I had quite a lot to say about how I wanted that dress to 715 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,680 be. And they probably shouldn't have 716 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:37,880 listened to me because I didn't want, I thought, to have a kind 717 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,680 of Vivian Westwood sort of corseted kind of big sort of 718 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,360 dress. So I ended up with a kind of 719 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:50,320 grey tube dress with a a that that was a sort of bustier, but 720 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,280 it basically just looked like a grey tube and it just was. 721 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,320 I just did look really frumpy in it. 722 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,200 What? Was the theme of that Met Ball 723 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:03,920 anglomania and no tartan? I should have worn tartan. 724 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,400 But do you think you've got a got a hangover from the Tartan 725 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,800 Trues era? Probably, Probably. 726 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,640 Absolutely. You're quite right. 727 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,240 I've never had a bit of tartan in my wardrobe since. 728 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,800 Why can't we talk about beauty for a moment? 729 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,720 What's your approach to hair, makeup, nails? 730 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,000 What's? So I since I left Vogue, and 731 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,800 this is very perverse of me, I've become obsessed with 732 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,200 makeup. So I wear much more makeup now 733 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,240 than I ever wore at Vogue. Now why is that, do you think? 734 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,680 I think because it's fun now, and when I was at Vogue I 735 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,720 thought people would be looking at me for my makeup, whereas now 736 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:52,040 I'm just doing it for myself. Hair, my hair is always like my 737 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,080 hair is always like this. I keep cutting it off or growing 738 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600 it longer or making it more blonde or whatever. 739 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,960 It always ends up the way it is now, which is a kind of tinted 740 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,800 shoulder length. Now you've written about going 741 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,640 grey, being brave enough to go grey. 742 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,040 Where are you? You're you're obviously. 743 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,680 Not going grey. Not going grey. 744 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,760 No, not going grey. I mean, I wish I was you. 745 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,280 I wish I was blonde because it's so much easier. 746 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,560 It shows it a lot less. Let's show it that way. 747 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,120 It shows it a lot less and if you want to, you can gradually 748 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,120 sort of go into a more kind of salt and peppery thing. 749 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,720 Whereas me, I'm so dark that to go grey would be a huge 750 00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,760 operation. I mean, funnily enough, my 751 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,800 hairdressers often tell me, you know, you might want to go grey. 752 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,320 They often sort of think that maybe I'd like to, but I, I 753 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,200 wouldn't. I think I, I think for me, I 754 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:53,040 think it would just immediately make me feel older. 755 00:46:53,920 --> 00:47:00,520 As a woman in her 60s, what's your view on how brands and the 756 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,360 fashion world market to your age group? 757 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:10,280 Well, it, it depends who I I hate the kind of kooky 758 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,680 octogenarian look. I, I just don't like that way 759 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,720 that people kind of think one way of dealing with people being 760 00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:21,640 old is to make them look ridiculous, as if sort of like, 761 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,720 well, we're it's so amazing that we're still alive. 762 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,760 We can look as crazy as possible. 763 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:33,480 I don't like that. Then I think the sort of the 764 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:38,120 token person with Gray hair in a fashion lineup drives me nuts 765 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:43,000 too, because it's literally the Gray hair that they're that 766 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:48,480 they're going for. I've never thought that there is 767 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,840 a problem about there being no clothes for older women, and 768 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,080 people say this to me all the time and I've not yet worked out 769 00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,280 the answer for them because I see clothes everywhere all the 770 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,920 time. I mean, Marks and Spencer has 771 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,960 got great stuff. Totally agree with you, but I 772 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,400 don't think that it's well communicated to women in their 773 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,480 60s and 70s and 80s. It's almost like there's a 774 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:22,960 switch that gets flicked and, you know, I look at my 91 year 775 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,480 old mother and she's wearing, you know, cashmere joggers and a 776 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,560 hoodie and Converse sneakers and she looks amazing. 777 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,920 And. Appropriate because I've 778 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,400 probably bought it for. Right. 779 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:42,640 OK, but and but she and she's a very willing, you know, wearer 780 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:48,120 of it. But if, if when I look around at 781 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:55,280 how the fashion world are communicating to an older 782 00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:01,360 customer, I, I think it's lacking I it's either on a 20 or 783 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,360 30 year old, which actually that's not you know, but that's 784 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,560 beautiful you're. Going to, you know, use that. 785 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,360 Absolutely. But I think there's this sort of 786 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:19,160 gaping great gap of how, how do you know, we've got all these 787 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,360 women who have never looked better, never been wiser and 788 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:31,960 more capable and allowed to be. And yet there's there's very few 789 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,240 people around sort of showing them how to. 790 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,920 I think that's interesting, and I would agree with you. 791 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,560 And funnily enough, it's sort of, I've been thinking about 792 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:50,880 writing a book not about clothes for women in and in that period, 793 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,680 but about this period altogether. 794 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,040 Because I think there's very little communicated about it in 795 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,920 general, which is that there's a kind of you're either a young 796 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:07,680 person or now you're a menopausal person and you've got 797 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,400 sort of empty nest syndrome or you're so old that nobody's 798 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,760 talking about you anymore. But I don't think I'm old. 799 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:24,120 I I, this is my point. Yes, I'm whatever I am and I'm 800 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,520 still thinking I'm late 30s forties. 801 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,680 I'm certainly living my life in that. 802 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,520 Way it's to me, it's interesting about, you know, about the fact 803 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:39,560 that it's sort of almost not that it's a neglected age, but 804 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,520 it's almost sort of kind of like it's an age that people don't 805 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,280 quite know how to deal with. And you're right, I suppose 806 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,600 about, you know, but there are I mean there are women who look, 807 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,560 you know, look one for like I'm Leslie Manville, the actress, I 808 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,760 think she's absolutely brilliant and she always looks looks 809 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,120 amazing. I mean there are a lot of 810 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:05,400 actresses in their 60s and 70s now who look terrific. 811 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,000 I think probably they could be used in advertising campaigns, 812 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,040 but not in the way that people are using them, as I say, making 813 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:25,640 them look kind of crazy. It's interesting that, but 814 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,640 there's another layer of this, which is I think that if you are 815 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:38,400 the age that I am, which is 66, I don't want to be siloed in 816 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,640 that way. So I don't actually, I'm not 817 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,720 sure I do want the things that I buy to be photographed on 818 00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,760 somebody my age. I'm not saying that, but what 819 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,760 I'm saying is surely there's something between there's some 820 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:59,400 crazy older woman and gorgeous, Yeah, nubile. 821 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,880 Well, I mean, there are, you know, there's Kamin, Yasmin, Le 822 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,120 Bon. I mean, Yasmin's always used, 823 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:04,840 right? And. 824 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,280 And phenomenally stylish. And phenomenally gorgeous. 825 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,160 Yeah, exactly. You know, But there was only one 826 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,000 of her. Yeah. 827 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,280 And OK, so there are a few other people. 828 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,760 And now you've got the supermodels, all, you know, all 829 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,600 getting older. But they are supermodels. 830 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,840 So you can't really aspire to to look like a supermodel. 831 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,280 I mean, nor would you want to. I don't. 832 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,520 I think it's a really interesting question and I 833 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,760 haven't thought about it in quite the way that you're 834 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,760 putting it, but I think it is very much worth thinking about. 835 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,880 And it's kind of crazy that given the the the grey pound, as 836 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,360 they call it. That I that is also my other 837 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,840 point, you know, we've never looked better, felt better, had 838 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:54,600 more time and money to spend on looking great. 839 00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:01,920 I went to AI went to a a talk two nights ago about publishing 840 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:07,920 an age, and it's absolutely fascinating that James Daunt, 841 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,040 you know, who owns daunts and now Waterstones and everything, 842 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,880 basically said that, you know, that that the older people who 843 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,680 everybody thought were the ones that were going to be wedded to 844 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,080 buying books are turning in droves to E readers. 845 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,480 You know, and everyone thought oh, they wouldn't like to deal 846 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:31,000 with the new technology, but they are, you know, they are the 847 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,080 people that e-reader that are buying. 848 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:39,400 I can't remember what it is like 3035% or something or other over 849 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,440 50s. Read entirely on E readers. 850 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,120 I wonder if it's whether they just have got enough stuff in 851 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,920 their life they don't want more. That's exactly what it is. 852 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,800 There are three things. When they're older, in their 853 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,080 sort of 70s and 80s, they don't want to have more stuff. 854 00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,200 It's that E readers are light, they don't want to carry a heavy 855 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,400 book, and they can adjust the font size. 856 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,600 Of it, love it. I mean, do you, do you think 857 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,920 ageism exists in fashion? Yes, I I mean, I think it exists 858 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,080 everywhere really. I don't think any any any more. 859 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,240 So in fashion. I mean, after all, you know, one 860 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:24,280 has to look at it. I mean, how old's Armani Muchas 861 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:28,920 no spring chicken? Even Nicola Gasquier now must 862 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,040 be, you know, getting old. I mean, all the big designers, 863 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,360 Ralph Lauren, they're all, you know, older. 864 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:44,360 So but I don't think that necessary is reflected in in in 865 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,400 their teams in their collections. 866 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,520 No, but but I'm I'm not sure. I think it should be. 867 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,640 Before we spin on some quick fires, what's your approach to 868 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,040 sustainable fashion? Well, I mean, it has to be sort 869 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,920 of pro. I don't don't think anybody 870 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:06,240 wants unsustainable fashion. I think it's very complicated. 871 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:14,400 I, you know, quite often in in all these environmental issues, 872 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,120 you know, if you really drill into the nuts and bolts, you'll 873 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,640 see that something that appears to be doing something that's 874 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,080 good is actually causing another problem somewhere. 875 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,680 And I think the fashion industry, you know, has a lot of 876 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:34,040 that. I also think that although I 877 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,720 think, you know, obviously sort of sweatshop fast fashion is 878 00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:43,080 appalling and should just be banned, I do think that the idea 879 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,160 of people being able to get, you know, cheap clothes is, is 880 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,280 important. You know, I think it's a quite 881 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,320 sort of overly privileged thing to, to snipe at some of those 882 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,200 fast fashion brands really, because they do enable people to 883 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,600 have, you know, have a choice and sort of follow fashion 884 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,520 trends. So I think it's complicated. 885 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,800 Totally agree. What is the oldest piece in your 886 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,160 wardrobe? The most beautiful ball gown 887 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,960 that I stole from a house that we rented for a long time when I 888 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,600 was a teenager. And it's this incredible kind of 889 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,960 50s satin ball gown with amazing sort of beaded top. 890 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,320 And obviously it doesn't go anywhere near me now and I 891 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,640 haven't been able to wear it since I was 25. 892 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,240 That is the oldest piece in my wardrobe. 893 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,360 Hang on, you stole it. Yeah, it was. 894 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,800 There was some clothes in that house that did not belong to us 895 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,600 and I took that ball. Gown. 896 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,720 But I don't think the person who now owns the house would have 897 00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:47,520 wanted the ball gown then anyway. 898 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,400 I hope. I probably won't be listening to 899 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,560 this. Oh I love it, I love it. 900 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,720 Let's spin on some quick fires. What fashion advice would you 901 00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,560 give your 20 year old self? Enjoy it. 902 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,200 Fashion trend you'd most like to see make a comeback. 903 00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,080 I'm afraid, like everybody in the 70s. 904 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,800 It is the answer that I hear most of the time. 905 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,080 And I have to say I just saw a screening of Maria which is the 906 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,040 film about Maria Carlos with Angelina Jolie and the 70s 907 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:20,520 fashion is beyond in it. Right good top tip fashional 908 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,360 beauty trend you would consign to room 101. 909 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,960 Touring. Your last impulse buy? 910 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,400 What's they called Greek sandals? 911 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,080 Ancient Greek sandals in rubber for my holiday. 912 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,200 Sort of like jellies, but very chic jellies. 913 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,240 Your views on tattoos. Oh I wish I I wish I had one, 914 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,080 but I think it's too late now. Grooming or well-being 915 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,360 treatment? You couldn't give up. 916 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:53,040 I love a pedicure. High maintenance. 917 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:57,680 Low maintenance. Low I I I I am low maintenance. 918 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,760 I wish I was higher maintenance. High end or High Street? 919 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,800 Definitely both. Crocs cute or puke I. 920 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,920 Wouldn't have minded a pair of those Christopher Kane Crocs. 921 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,160 They were good, weren't they? Sports Lux or Rock'n'roll? 922 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,680 Probably veer towards the Rock'n'roll. 923 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,640 Cashmere or cotton? Cashmere. 924 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:25,360 Trilby or Tracy? Tracy trend or style? 925 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,560 Style. Colour or monochrome? 926 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,920 Colour. Pattern or plain? 927 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,040 Probably plain. Order or editor? 928 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,440 Order hoarder? Oh hoarder or editor hoarder? 929 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,560 Hoarder for sure. Charity shop or resale? 930 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,600 Charity shop. Shapewear or lingerie? 931 00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,760 Lingerie bikini or one piece bikini? 932 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,120 And finally, traditional question, at the end of the day, 933 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,120 what do you or don't you wear in bed? 934 00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:08,120 Nothing Alex, what a joy to reconnect with Amanda and took 935 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:13,560 all things style and fashion and vogue and just go on this lovely 936 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:14,680 journey with you. Thank you. 937 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,320 Yeah, it's been great. Thank you for having me.