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Today I'm going on a style journey with the retired
ballerina, the president of the Royal Academy of Dance,
presenter, judge and classical ballet coach at the Royal Ballet
Company, the dazzling and divine Dame Darcy Bussell DBE.
Hello and welcome, Darcy. Thank you.
It's such a privilege to have you here, such a treat.
And I have to say you have been this is real fangirl stuff.
You've been my all time favorite ballerina because not only we
unbelievably technical, but you danced with such a musicality
and flair and sheer joy. And, and in fact, my nephew
reminded me the other night, he said that his father ABS my
brother absolutely loved you, had a complete crush on you.
So how lovely. Thank you there.
You go, I have to say, coming to watch you very sweetly.
You invited me to watch you coach two of the the principles
for Cinderella at the Royal Opera House last week was so
magical. It was proper bucket list stuff
for me. How much time does the Royal
Ballet Company take up for you now?
Well, it it's not a full time job, which is, is is lucky and I
can dab in and out. So I come in for intensive
periods of about two to three months for a production and I'll
work with two to three couples, principals, young principals.
And so it's kind of getting probably the best bit of the job
really. I mean, I remember my coach
being very dear to me for 20 years, so I just hope that I'm
giving them the same sort of knowledge and kind of those
golden Nuggets that I remember getting from my coach.
Well, it seemed to me it really was golden Nuggets.
It was just the tilt of a head or the, you know, just a tiny
element of the hands or it was just tweaks.
And I it was absolutely beautiful to watch and they were
just like sponges soaking it. Up.
Well, I mean, it's so lovely. I mean, we've got such an
amazing repertoire in the Royal Ballet Company, we have such
diversity. But when you come back to some
of the classics like Sir Frederick Ashton's, which he was
our founder choreographer, there's pieces to really tune to
the style that was Ashton. And sort of what you say is
British ballet is incredibly important.
So to get those finer details right.
So so we don't look like every other company.
We all have to have our distinctive style and and that's
important that we hold on to that.
And so I'm really always looking for that.
But it was often not just, as you say, a tilt of a head or a
mannerism. It's it's very much through the
musical side of it as well. Yeah.
So Frederick Ashton being our founding choreographer, just to
emphasize his style and what he was about with all his ballets
is so important that we hold onto because that's our unique
style of British ballet. That's what we, I suppose, what
we stand for. And how would you define that?
Gosh, few musicality, definitely so how he emphasized things.
The movement in the upper body? Incredibly important.
How he bends from the waist using the torso a lot, the
Porter bra and then the kind of the detail in the footwork.
It was quite intricate, but it his timing.
I think he was, you know, a great choreographer, obviously
and genius of a choreographer, but he was very clever with
comedy as well and keeping things light and, and those
pauses and those emphasis or in the music really help accentuate
the how brilliant the step can be or how soft it can be.
He, he's very clever in those. So you don't need a language.
You know, the language is the movement.
You don't need to say any words to understand what's going on.
And he was brilliant at that. That that's a lovely
description, and it always strikes me that there's a lot of
acting in ballet. Yes, I, I mean, obviously
there's quite a lot of abstract works, but we are probably very
famous for our narrative ballets.
And it does make a big difference if those dancers can
really fall into the role and feel like they're encompassing
that character. And it's not too difficult in
the big classics because of the Princess.
But you are telling a lot of story in a very short time.
So you do have to be a little bit more obvious sometimes.
But we don't want it to be pantomime.
Of course, it's got to still be subtle, but it's also got to
travel across, you know, the orchestra pit right into the
auditorium. And so to get those subtleties
right, a lot of dancers love to look at the floor and feel like
they're being really into themselves and feeling
something. But actually, if you don't
project and look up and, and give the audience, you know,
your eyes and the whites of your eyes, it's.
Yeah, we sometimes miss a lot. Lovely.
I mean, I know you're passionate about dance and the importance
of the creative industries in in general.
I mean, let's just talk about that for a moment because I know
you've doing dance academies and all that, and I'd love to hear a
little bit more. Thank you, Amanda.
Yes. I mean, I could boy you
senseless with all the kind of journeys I've gone down since
I've retired as a ballerina. I've realized that the
attributes of dance are incredibly large, you know,
besides our physical and our mental health.
But just how they change how people react to you in society,
how you read body language, when you understand your body and how
it moves and the emotional ranges, you learn that from the
arts and especially from dance. And so to find that out when I
left how I was missing that from my own life, I really felt that
my daughter's growing up in, in physical education at school,
that they needed a lot more diversity to be able to feel, I
suppose what you say, present and alive, all their senses
awakened. And you know, physical activity
is such an important part, but if we can go that bit further
and say how it can help our emotional state as well.
And I think dance has that. So I set up one charity where
it's called Diverse Dance Mix, where we're just celebrating 10
years where we put dance fitness into state schools, but primary
mainly. And then also I've started
another kind of company, which is called Move Ashore, which
I've with a professor Peter Lover, Doctor Peter Lovett, and
all his work is around movement and dance.
And it's as a social prescription so that you can do
a program over 20 weeks, 60 sessions over that time where it
can help you just with your everyday activities, you know,
just helping you build a structure.
You know, it's not just about fitness that we always think how
dances for fitness, you know, this is what we're doing, but
it's not actually, it's just for our, our mental health as well.
And we forget how brilliant it is.
So uplifting. So uplifting, but also and just
how we communicate with people, how we interact with people, we
learn that from dance. We have this bond when we dance
together, you know, we kind of laugh, but it does make you look
at the good in people instead of the negative.
And I think that's really important that we keep
recognizing that and noticed what the attributes of dance can
help. How?
How lovely. How have you detuned your body
post 8 hours a day? I think that's a.
Really good way of saying. But I mean you must have been
training for 8 hours a day at times.
Yeah, very much. I mean it was always, it was
very hard to have any time off because it's a short career.
So it was always very concentrated and you're right,
it was very intense and it was probably to an extreme as well.
It's not any old dance style classical ballet.
How are those toes? Yeah, the toes.
The toes are still working, luckily.
But yeah, it was a hard thing to wind down from.
I, I think I, I was very fortunate.
By the end of my career, I had had 222 children, so two
daughters. And that kind of gave me that
distance where I was able to step back and look at it from
afar because I had another life where I had to focus on as well
with my kids. And so it gave me a bit of
perspective of how I was going to do that job and and step away
from being a full time classical ballerina.
And it's really odd when I say it like that because it is you
just live and breathe it and it's very the high thing was
very hard. I thought I was so ready, you
know, I'd given myself a Goodyear or two to adjust to the
idea that I was going to stop and how I was going to stop.
And I was recommended that I should maybe go into another
project. As soon as I finished that it
wasn't that total kind of close the door.
So I went into a kind of commercial project with
Katherine Jenkins actually. Yeah, called Viva La Diva.
Yeah, well done, Viva La Diva. And that was really exciting
actually to focus on something more commercial and totally our
idea as well, which was really exciting.
So that was very helpful. But it was the family.
I think the people you work with, you know, it's that kind
of bond you've created for years and years.
And this is, we're so close to those people because we come
through school together, going to the company together, and you
live and breathe the ups and downs together.
You know, we're very open. You know, dancers are very
expressive. We tell each other everything we
don't, you know? And so it's really hard when you
don't have those people around you 24.
Yes. I mean, do do does sort of a
company like the Royal Ballet Company, does it help ballerinas
and dancers as they retire? Does it give them guidance?
Because it's, it's a huge sort of step off the diving board,
isn't it? I mean, I don't believe it's
their job to give us guidance at all.
I think that is up to us. I mean, we're adults and we had
a really long career. I was very fortunate and I did
an awful lot and I worked with a lot of people.
I think, you know, everybody warns you that it's going to be
tough. And I think, you know, from
stepping away from such some a passion that you've loved so
much and you've dedicated so much to, you know, it is going
to hit you. I don't think you realize how
much it's going to hit you. Yeah.
I thought there was a death in the family that that kind of
feeling, but. You are grieving something.
Yes, really. It is really odd sort.
Of appreciating that and saying that's fine, I will grieve it.
Exactly, exactly that. You have to take it on and go,
OK, I didn't know I was going to feel as traumatise as I am.
Yeah, but let's focus that energy into something else and,
and work the problem. And I then I, that's when I
realized I couldn't not be in the studio.
So I had to go back and do something, even if it was Zumba
or my own dance fitness or something, to keep my body
moving or to have that still, that stimulation because very
weird not to move your body anymore when that's all you've
done. Darcy, I've never seen you not
move your body. It's it, yeah.
It's, it's hard for me to keep still.
So it's a natural in me. I know I can't escape that.
But of course I had to back off because my, I had worn it tough,
you know, it had worn down. So I could never do anything to
the extreme that I had. And that was that was very
important that I understood that.
And then I stepped back and I didn't expect my body to do more
or my mind to be that intense, but something.
But is it quite difficult to literally go from 8 hours to
maybe an hour or two a day? Do you have to literally sort of
detune your body? I didn't.
I didn't think of it like that, but I suppose you feel those
moments where you're not being as active with other activities,
then they're not the intense, you know, training.
I mean, a lot of dancers in retirement still do their ballet
class every day, and I really didn't want to do that.
You've done enough. I really, yeah, I kind of like,
no, I'm not going to be happy doing that.
I know I didn't want to push my turn out because everything is
obviously in rotation and turn out, which is incredibly
important for our lines and why we're classical dancers.
That why we're not contemporary dancers or why we're not, you
know, ballroom or anything else because of the turn out.
So all our lines. So to relax, that was really
important for me. So I love doing dance fitness.
I thought that was great fun and I tried lots of different
things. And so that kept me ticking I
suppose and kept my, what was really important that I found
out very quickly is that joints had to be oiled constantly.
That doesn't stop. And how do you oil them?
Top tips. Top tips.
Well, I mean, I love reading so much about how we keep our body
strong and supple and things like that.
But I think, you know, there's the natural things, you know,
with yoga and those gurus where every joint has to be rotated
every day. And so doing a circle of your
wrist, doing your elbows, doing your knees, doing your ankles
every day, it's probably one of the best things you could do the
whole kind of shake off, awaken the body, the torso, keeping the
rotation and the torso. How important that is because
you think our jobs now or our lives, not our jobs, but our
lives are on a laptop. And, and that is so bad for our
frame and our our physique and our posture and everything.
So I'm very aware of that, but maybe I'm overly sensitive
because I was a doctor and I'm coach and I'm watching them all
the time moving. Was it very hard coming back to
do because you performed at the 2012 closing ceremony, which was
amazing, I have to say. Yeah, that was a shock.
Was it a shock to the to the body?
Well, I think just to my head as well to kind of go, wow, I've
got to get back on that stage and prove that I can still do it
and that that's a willpower and a confidence that you.
Yeah, that's a tough one. And so I did give myself at
least six to eight months, probably about eight months to
get myself into proper shape because I I'd been moving, but I
hadn't been in a dancer's shape, as we call it, a classical
dancer shape. And also just to get back on
point, and Christopher Wilden, who was choreographing our piece
for the closing ceremony Olympics.
So I had 4, four men to work with, which obviously was very
nice. So being partnered by them and
they were all people I knew incredibly well from my career.
So that confidence was great, but it was just knowing that it
was going to be live, I was only going to have one chance, and
that it was going to go across thousands and thousands of
people that were going to see it.
Billions probably. Yeah.
And you have to kind of delete that from your mind.
And that's the weird one. And then the kind of other crazy
things of coming off a wire at the top of the stadium, you
know, it's like, I can't, I'll dance, but do I have to do that
as well? Live, I know.
Live as well. Who knows?
So you posted you practice. That yeah, well, not not enough,
I don't think. We, we only could get in the
stadium basically in the middle of the night, so around 3:00 in
the morning because of the activities that were going
during the Olympics. And that was the only time
everything was going to be set up and ready to work on.
So trying it then. But we never did it with the
pyrotechnics. So I was on a wire with
pyrotechnics attached. Oh my God, to my frame, not to
my body, but to the frame. And I was just, you know, all
those strange things that go for your head.
Like I think I've got a lot of Hairspray in my head.
Does that catch light with pyotechnics, You know, just
stupid things. I was like, you know, you just
have to put all that trust in all the extraordinary people
that are there to put on that production.
And, and it was an amazing thing to be part of.
I still kind of pinch myself to believe that I was really part
of that closing ceremony. I mean, the opening ceremony was
already phenomenal, but then to be part of the closing and
putting the flame out, I think that's what was fun.
Very, very special. Now today we're going on a style
journey. Yes.
Can you describe what you have put on this morning?
Oh well. I wouldn't even want to mention
what I put on this morning. I did a dog walk and then I got
on a bicycle and cycled here and it was you cycled here.
Josie, you didn't tell me that as you walk through, that's all.
So cold, no, so and also sort of, I mean, I do change when I
get to the Opera House and change my clothes.
So I'm not in, I'm probably in a pair of black Zara trousers,
which are kind of my staple pair of trousers that I have quite a
few of them where I work in those when I'm coaching.
And and then I have a thermal top on because it was so cold.
And then I have a very, very overly fluffy, very, very pink
top, which I don't know where it's come from.
Is it, I want to say Boden, but I don't think it's Boden.
It's one of those brands, just a cozy.
Short sleeved mohair. Yes, mohair, that's what you
say. Yes, and I've got very large
chunky boots on. You do, I hope.
You've warmed up. I'm very warm now, thank
goodness. Yes, I don't feel very chic.
The nice thing is working in the Opera House and when you go to a
show, you get that opportunity to dress up, so it's really
nice. I really enjoy that.
Well, we'll come on to that in a minute, but you grew up between
London and Australia. Mainly London, but yes, we did
go to Australia a lot. But I I lived in London all my
life, yeah. And were you very aware of your
mother's style? My mother was very eccentric and
a fashion designer herself in the 60s and had her own shop in
the King's Road, I don't know how long for.
So she was immersed in it, in it.
And I do remember, I suppose I didn't notice as a young kid,
but I always had like a purple Jean jacket with studs or suede
patchwork miniskirt with studs. And I always had a pair of
cowboy boots. So everything was really out
there and I was just like, great.
And was that very much her style?
I don't know, I think not really.
Oh, these were your choices. I think they were my choices,
but I had an eccentric palette to choose from and that probably
came from my mother. So and, and she gave me that
freedom until I got a bit older and then it kind of turned into
the kind of French long socks and loafers.
And I was like, I don't want to wear long socks and loafers.
You're like, no, very stylish. You should wear, you know.
And it was really then I think as I got matured as a, as a
young girl, then it was very much you don't do this and you
do this and this is how you wear clothes and stuff.
And were you obedient, or did you have any rebellious?
Moments. No, I was, I, I thought I was
obedient. I think she, my mum would
probably say quite the opposite. I, I did enjoy the whole
costume, putting on the outfit every morning, but I was
desperate to fit in as well. So at school, you know, I so
badly wanted, I think when I was in the 70s, there was these
wonderful kind of folded over ankle boots.
Do you remember the suede little boots?
And gosh, I love those. And my mum said, Oh no, your,
your legs are too skinny and knobbly for those boots.
And I was like. Those have now become the most
famous legs in the world. I remember I was saying that now
you're done and your legs don't suit those funny little ankle
boots and back. They said they're so gorgeous,
you know, and you can get them in different colours, you know,
like that. And yeah, I remember being quite
devastated. So I didn't get a pair of.
Those. And how old would you have been
then? I suppose about 9-8 or nine when
that was kind of really important that I wanted to be
like my friends, you know? Did you wear a school uniform?
Not until I went to our performing arts school.
And that was interesting because we had to, oh, not a very nicer.
And and any sort of hangover from that you know well.
That was two years. Yeah, the textures, you're so
right. It wasn't a nice texture.
It felt very nylon E so didn't feel comfortable and also that
when you got wet in your uniform it it smelled strange because of
the nylon. I don't know why that was so
important when I was young, but. Is that still important to you
now? Are you sort of particularly
aware of the smell of the? Feel, definitely.
I love to feel comfortable. But it's funny, I suppose, being
brought up wearing costumes in the theatre, it's amazing what
pain you do go through in an outfit as well.
So but no, the the texture and as long as it wasn't itchy, I
hated that. And it's funny.
My girls really are the same anything even though if you
wanted to wear a pair of glitter tights, remember, and they'd be
itchy and they'll I'm not wearing them.
I suspect they look great and they're like, no, I'm not
wearing glitter tights. But do you have one standout
childhood outfit that you sort of remember that really made an
impact on you? I think my dad, he bought me a
pair of trainers from America. They were kind of those added as
kind of 70s running once with the rubber on the bottom with
the stripes, and I thought those were the best things ever.
They also helped me run fast. And I thought, wow, and they're
from America. How cool, you know?
But I think that's, you know, when you didn't get everything
internationally. So those trainers were really
important. And I think he got me a jacket
as well, which was some cool brand as well.
And I remember that jacket. But I do have a very funny
outfit that my mom framed of me when I was a probably about 5 or
6 where I'm in a Tutu. But I have my little Jean jacket
on with my cowboy boots and I'm being really grumpy and annoying
and I'm in this picture and I've got my hands crossed and she
just thinks that's the best picture ever.
And do you remember the first time that dance just you, you
had a light bulb moment with Dance I?
Mean it came. It came late to me because my
mom sent me to ballet class every Saturday because I had
really knocked knees and she knew it would strengthen out my
posture and my legs because I was quite bendy and flexible.
And so I didn't, it wasn't my love, it wasn't what I wanted to
do. She just knew it would be
helpful. And it took me, I suppose
probably about 3 or 4 years until I had that moment and it
sort of happened that stage school.
So I went to arts Ed, arts educational in the Barbican and
I was there for two years. And when I was there, I was
like, this is what I've got to do.
I've got to go into ballet properly.
I can't just do this as one of the interests in for the stage.
I want to do it really well. Fantastic, fantastic.
So any rebellious years in, you know, sort of teenage with
clothing, hair, makeup? I well, apparently I was always
rebellious, but I, I, I felt quite square.
Believe it. I did.
I felt, yeah. I, I think because my mom said,
you know, if you're going to wear a mini skirt, you can't
then have anything else showing upstairs.
Not that I had anything to show upstairs, but so it was either
one or the other legs or cleavage.
Yeah, boobs. And, and she said that was
really, really important. You come across really clean,
classy, but you can have fun with your wardrobe, but just
make sure you don't push those boundaries.
And, and actually I felt it was a great lesson and you kind of
use everything. I always felt more comfortable
in tailored clothes. I wasn't great in things, I
suppose feeling sloppy and I felt better.
But maybe that was for my dancing.
Obviously leotards are incredibly revealing.
They don't leave much to the imagination.
And I've always felt that you had such a healthy attitude
towards your body and food and your shape.
But I mean, you must get driven very hard in ballet school to be
a certain way. At ballet school and nobody is
driving you to be a certain way at all.
We are driving ourselves and I think because of the the image
of the perfect ballerina and I think now it's even harder
because the image is on your phone every two seconds.
So they can flick, flick, flick, flick at all these dancers
around the world. And what watch is praise or
whatever you want to say. But As for me as a dancer, it
was how you moved. And I think because I was given
quite big roles as soon as I joined the company.
And so the ability to get through those roles was
incredibly important and how well I did it.
So for me to keep my body healthy and strong, I knew when
I wasn't eating enough or I hadn't had enough protein or
carbs, or I felt it instantly and I felt weak and I felt
incapable of getting through a work.
And so I studied very quickly to understand how I could help my
body maintain a healthy weight. But also, you know, because our
seasons are very long and very strenuous and as you say, tough
on the body. So it was trying to keep that
healthy body and also the stamina and lack of injuries.
And you know, all of those things you have to take into
account because if if a dancer doesn't eat and they're not
giving themselves the right nutrition, they're not going to
get through a season, they're not they're going to get a lot
of injuries. So it's very obvious.
What I think is hard for the public to see is so they look at
these dancers and see these kind of sinewy bodies or long muscles
and is that we don't see the distances that we travel.
So if you're looking at a marathon rather, you accept that
totally why their body looks the way it does because you see the
distances they go where it's a classical dancer or any dancer
when they're that sinewy and their bodies being pushed,
stretching and strength, it's hard for people to understand.
So they, oh, they must be starving themselves to look like
that. But not we're in that studio, as
you say, more than 8 hours a day, like a marathon runner, but
you just don't see the distance. Yeah, I mean, you're an elite
athlete. Yeah, very much.
I mean, they, they like to say, no, no, we're an artist first.
We're not an athlete, but of course we're an athlete.
Yeah, the body is being pushed to that extreme and, and if
anything, you know, those dancers, they eat incredibly
well. I mean, it's very obvious when
the ones that don't, and that is tough to see.
And, and because you lose that flexibility in the muscle, the
dryness and, and the strength, it's it's very clear that you
suddenly can't push. Yeah.
Fascinating. Now, we've talked about leotard.
Then in the rehearsal room, I noticed that, you know, and I've
seen this many times, it's more about functionality,
practicality, keeping joints warm.
But were you very conscious of that, Your rehearsal room look?
Yeah, there there was. I came in that time.
It was, it was so lovely. Late 80s, into the Royal Ballet,
where Ashton's, you know, he was still alive and he loved all his
dances and pastels and it was really obvious and it was
lovely. So all the girls would be in
these pale Blues, pale pinks, pale yellows, all these lovely
peachy colors and all different. And, and then the men, you know,
they wouldn't, they'd be in their normal colors, you know,
it wasn't important. But for the women, yeah, in
black or Navy or stuff, but or white.
The guys used to wear sometimes white tights.
But you know, then suddenly into the 90s that disappeared and so
then it was very kind of black. I remember just wearing black
all in ones and Navy all in ones and Gray all in ones.
No color at all actually. And then we all had our own
personalized kind of leg warmers and everything.
I used to only wear one for some reason for a long time over 1
hamstring and everybody's go, why are you only wearing one
hat? You know, one leg warm.
And I was like, well, because I've got 1 hamstring that always
bothers me or something like that.
But we did have these quirky, you know, personalized outfits
and in and I think it came from things like fame.
And were you inspired by each other?
Was it a was there a sort of competitiveness in the rehearsal
room look? I think if you had a great
skirt, you know, if the ballet needed a good skirt and you had
a good practice skirt and everybody, everybody would go,
oh, you've got a lovely skirt on, you know, and it would kind
of be funny how smart you could look.
But actually it wasn't that trendy to look too smart.
And where now how they have really designer leotards and
very stylish with little lace underneath and things like that,
all different types. And it's much more fashionable
to look chic in the studio. And they've all got the right
skirts. I mean, they had like an
incredible collection of skirts. Mine were horrible or ripped or
torn or you know, and so I'm always really impressed with how
good they look now the the, the dances in the company.
Can we just talk about men and tights for a second?
How, how did that all start? What's the history of it?
Because sometimes I'll look at a ballet and think, you know, if
you look at it from a distance or with your eyes sort of half
closed, you sort of, my God, he's naked from the waist down.
Yeah, I suppose it's that silhouette, isn't it?
And the physicality that you want to see in a male dancer.
And so those type. Modesty.
Well, why? Why do we need modesty?
You know, really, we're dancers and we're speaking with our
body. I mean, for us, it doesn't seem
a strange thing at all. I mean, society puts a lot of
these boundaries upon us. So true.
You know, if you go to some countries, they're quite happy
to walk around naked, you know. But, you know, I think there is
some dignity in covering up, you know, especially on going to the
supermarket, things like that, of course.
But if you're on the beach, you know, for us as a dancer, we
have to dress away so that we can be handled and we can move.
So to have too much stuff on is ridiculous or try and cover up
is ridiculous. I mean, I've often looked at
those ballet costumes and they are absolutely exquisite.
Were they all comfortable? No, no, I mean we were, we were
very lucky in our company where we had incredible designers that
made things look incredibly real.
So we had a lot of ballets like the Man On and the millings of
Ken Mcmillan's and a lot of Ashtons where the bodices would
would be boned just like they would have been traditionally if
it was a period piece or they would be laced up, you know.
So they were things that had to feel and look real from a
distance and you had to move in them so that it was part of that
period in the style and that was important.
But that came with its problems because a bone down the side
would start bending because you have to bend in that bodice.
And of course these things buckle and they crack or break.
And so suddenly you've got a broken bone on the side of your
I say, no, it's a bone in the bodice of the costumes.
Yes, exactly my bone and my my body.
And so that things like that would happen quite regularly
where so they had to replace these things all the time.
I mean, I think they got clever and clever where they didn't
have to use the real stuff because also it made a costume
very heavy and you didn't want to, you know, dance in a costume
that was heavy either. So to use different materials
that maybe look like the more traditional was really helpful.
I always used to ask in my tutus.
So the a ballerina Tutu, we always have a bodice.
Again, it would be boned, but what I found really hard because
I had a rib cage that I had to breathe in or if the roles I did
were very exhausting. So I had a stretchy panel put in
the back. And I remember asking a
designer, I'd really love just a pit of lycra put in the back.
And if you can match, you know, if you match the color, that's
brilliant. And oh, I'd be devastated like
that. And I said, but it will make all
the difference. I will be a very, very happy.
I won't complain and whinge at all about your costume at all.
And I'm like, OK, I think we can allow this because your
diaphragm, well, exactly, you have to breathe.
If you know, there was that whole thing, well, don't move.
You don't know, don't move your ribs, don't move your ribs.
But if you're physically putting everything into it, you need to
be able to breathe. And I really noticed that.
And I had quite a long body for a classical dancer, which which
was good, you know, it showed off the hips or the waist or the
the rib. But you do need to know that you
can move in those costumes. So having a little extra panel
put in made such difference. And I always suggest it to a lot
of the dancers if they're struggling.
I say, have you asked for a stretchy pal?
Good for you. Go on.
If you don't ask, you don't get. Did you?
Do you have one stand out costume?
Gosh. I mean, I, I, I like the
costumes where they weren't, there wasn't much to it really.
I mean, you know, a great flowing skirt was fabulous.
I mean, I suppose the Romeo and Juliet costumes where they come
under what you call that the. The SO Princess.
Line, Princess line. They were beautiful and you felt
you could move so you have a full on body underneath leotard
and it would be attached to the chiffon and that felt the best
and the freedom of a costume like that.
But you felt the flow at the same time because you always
want that ability where you move into something and then it keeps
going even though you've stopped.
And that, that is a joy when you're dancing.
Were you ever sewn into a costume?
Always actually always sewn in actually.
So no. Last minute dashes to the loo,
no. No, I mean, there's tricks,
aren't there? But yes, no, no, you it's weird
because nerves obviously make you want to go salute last
minute as well before a show. And you just have to get into a
routine where I'm I'm getting sewed in the last last minute.
OK, let's go for it. And then you just have to hold
everything in. I mean, so many years of being
in leotards and sort of a uniform of sorts, how, when
would you say that you really discovered your personal style
DNA? Well, I, I think I've said, I
don't think I have. I think the sad thing is I've
been a chameleon because of my life in the theatre and just
always adapted for what somebody, you know, the look
they want of you because you're just wanting to be that muse all
the time and to be accepted. So I always wanted to fall into
their image that they wanted to see of me and and that was felt
good actually, that I could keep changing because I never wanted
to be boxed into being a certain type of dancer.
So to have that flexibility with your outfits made you feel like
you can always be a different dancer.
And what makes you feel you? Now I suppose I like to feel
confident. So my clothes, I, you know, a
lot of people say, oh, you wear trousers a lot, Darcy and I and.
On your beautiful legs are hidden.
And I, I don't know, I think because I like to step out, I
don't like to be restricted. I have noticed that that I used
to love wearing pencil skirts when they were really
fashionable at one stage. And and now I'm like, I couldn't
even, you know, really go with that because I want to be able
to be able to stretch when I want to stretch or step out or,
you know, sit how I want to sit, not to be restricted by my
outfit. So I think that's feeling
confident in how I'm wearing something.
I love wearing jackets. I am a bit obsessed.
I've got too many jackets of every style.
If I asked Angus, your husband, to describe your style DNA in
three words, what 3 words do you think he'd use?
He probably, I don't know actually, because I don't think
he's that In Sync with what my style is anyway.
I think something that I can move in.
So it will probably have to be flexible, a flexible outfit.
He likes more preppy outfits. So he if I'm wearing a shirt and
a belt on my dress or my skirt or my trousers, he's like great
like that. So that would be his image of
me. So, but I'm as I said, I change
my style will look a lot. But but 3 words that are really
fundamental to you. So comfort.
Comfort, but something that can be chic if it had to be.
And he, I think he does joke about about how many times I
changed my earrings. And that's probably come from
strictly. I'm bling.
Yeah, yeah. A bit blingy, a bit too blingy
with the earrings. So I yeah, I get a little
obsessed with earrings, but that's about it.
Fantastic. Let's talk about Strictly for a
moment. Because you were a judge on
there for seven years, yes. Amazing.
Yeah. And were you very much in
control of what you wore as a judge?
Yes, I mean I, I was very lucky I had my own stylist so I didn't
have to rely on the in house. They were busy enough anyway, so
that was nice. And so I knew what I felt
comfortable in. And of course you have to keep
remembering you're behind a desk so you didn't always get seen.
So just what that looked like and and I knew what suited
because I was very broad shouldered and it's always nice
to be able to see the waist, but very difficult when you're
behind a desk. So I was very conscious of those
sorts of things and what what I was happy in, but I also needed
to feel if I could move in it. So I didn't want get, Oh my
gosh, sit here for, you know, holding my breath.
So that was not the way I was going to work.
And were they very much in control of your hair and makeup?
Well, it was. It had to be part of the whole
production, Yeah. So if you weren't getting
involved and being lazy, then they would tell you they wanted,
OK, you've got to wear a bit more colour here today, this
weekend. You know, if you think about
some sparkle, we'd really like some sparkle this weekend or
something like that. So it was always something you
know, and, and they would actually say they would be the
odd outfit, they'd say no. And that was really weird
because you'd want to know what was the reason for the note, but
it would be often what the other presenters were wearing and the
other judges. So I then you kind of understood
and like, oh, OK, I understand and.
Was your stylist with you when you were having your hair and
makeup planned? So gosh, we would do a couple of
weeks about probably 5 weeks before the show would start and
go through nearly every season, every weekend, which was hard
work. And I wasn't very patient there
where we'd go to a fitting and we'd be there and I would try
about 30 outfits on. But you loved that.
Yeah. And that was tough.
And then I'd go and maybe 4 weeks later and then I'd do
another one of those because of course, if they were, if outfits
weren't going to fit with everybody else, you have to
always have plan AI, mean plan B&C&D.
So, yeah, the stylist had to always be there because if they
said, oh, no, no, it's not going to work because Tess is wearing
so and so Claudia is wearing this or soon.
So Judge, you know, so it was like, OK, we can do that.
We can change. I had some relationships.
We have some lovely designers like yourself, but very hard to
ask for these outfits only because working on the BBC, you
know, you're not allowed to publicize what you're wearing.
And, and, and I understood that, but it didn't seem fair to
think, well, I'm going down this route and asking a lot of these
designers, you know, if I could be seen in that, but I suppose
they could publicize well. Yes, I was going to say, you
know, I remember we publicized when you were looking.
Yeah, gorgeous and. Yeah.
And the nice thing is they would often appear in a, in a magazine
anyway. So I've been very fortunate to
work with, you know, Bruce Oldfield or yourself, Amanda or
Jasper Conran or Katherine Walker.
And so really superb clothes that you felt $1,000,000 in.
And that of course, might made such a difference with going on
live television and having that confidence that you needed.
Yes, I mean, I often talk about clothes being our armor and we
how we message through clothes, but they they're very empowering
when you know, and I don't care what it is, whether it's just a
gorgeous sweater or a fabulous evening dress.
It, it, the total feeling you change instantly.
And I loved the very simple lines and, and, and simple
silhouettes. Beautiful.
I, it just so enjoyable. It was like being back in my job
as a dancer and wearing those costumes and, and that's how I
kind of approached it and, and I felt incredibly fortunate that I
could do that every weekend. Now, so dressing up for
Strictly, what about I mean, you've been photographed
thousands of times, have you? Do you feel you're sort of in
control of your image? Have you ever been taken out of
your comfort zone when when you're being photographed for a
spread in a magazine? I lost the time actually and and
I think because of my job as a dancer, I was really comfortable
with that. I wanted to constantly come out
of my comfort zone and test my look.
And obviously I'm not always pleased with it, but it was, it
was part of the experiment of being an artist, I think.
And I didn't want to be safe. I hated being safe.
That's a very refreshing attitude towards what would you
say was your worst fashion? There was plenty.
There was so many. Oh my gosh.
I think, well, it's when the whole thing is done, isn't it?
When they permed my hair for a photo shoot, gosh, it was not
good. Permed well, literally, I don't
know how they curled it so tight.
It looked totally permed. And I have quite a lot of hair.
That's why I think I tie it up all the time.
So to have it down and to have that amount of curl in it that
was tight. I kind of looked like a triangle
and in it, it, it wasn't great. And it's I think it's only
because you're just your face, what you're used to seeing your
face look like with a certain hairstyle and outfit.
And I think because the hair was just too busy for then the out
the dress. And so when you've got a busy
dress and busy hair, you know it.
It's so true, isn't it? You've got to calm that down or
flourish that up or the other way around.
You can't have both. And I just remember wearing this
ginormous dress that had a little bit too much frill and
and my hair. Was big.
Do you remember who the dress was by?
No, I don't. I can't say that.
Well, you could say who the magazine was.
I, I I there. You're so polite.
No, I can't. I can't.
I mean, you know, I get so inspired by those photographers.
That was the joy. And I have to say I think their
style probably was very inspiring to my own feel and
look. So working with those certain
photographers really made a difference to how I felt when I
went out again in the real world.
And it was that inspiration that they gave me.
So it's not always the just the designer that you expect to make
the influence on you, but very much the photographer and how
they set the whole image of how they wanted to capture you.
And that was, that was a really exciting part of being a dancer
because photographers wanted to work with you.
And I felt like, wow, this is the best thing ever.
It's like having another choreographer, I suppose.
Yeah, I mean, talking photographers, you don't have
one portrait in the National Portrait Gallery.
You've got 9. Not necessarily have I?
You do, apparently. Do you have a favorite image of
you? Not really.
I I got you. Must have a favorite picture.
Not really. Every.
Everything's so different. I couldn't really say, I
suppose. Not really.
I have a lovely picture that Bryan Adams gave of me because
obviously he's incredibly talented photographer and he did
a picture of me, I think for an exhibition of women that he that
were inspiring to him for certain reason.
And he wanted to raise money doing this collection.
And he gave me this picture and it's very large and I put it
away somewhere not many people can see, but it I'm wearing an
Alexander McQueen dress, which is transparent, comes right up
to my neck and to my ankle, my wrists.
And it's long, but it's see through and it has the moon on
it and and it's just that I suppose it's kind of like it's
like Greek image, like a statue that he got.
I don't know. It's just very cool.
I didn't think I had very high heel shoes on.
I do remember that. And I'm sort of in a dancing
position. So yeah, it's just feels very
cool. I for the first time I felt
cool. And you naked underneath.
Basically yes. I mean yes, not.
Actually, yes. Talking heels.
Can you wear heels? Do you wear heels?
Yeah. Nor are your feet just.
No, no, I'm very happy in heels. I choose not to wear them.
I mean, I wore them a lot on Strictly and I've danced in
heels, which I never used to. But I suppose from wearing a
Pointe shoe, which is what the classical dancer wears, it's not
that different. Yeah.
So that pain is not as bad as wearing a point shoe either.
So lucky you. Yeah, a lot of people don't feel
like that. But, yeah, I wouldn't choose to
wear them for too long. Now I know the change they make.
I worked with Alan Jones, the artist, pop artist, and he did a
portrait Earth National Portrait Gallery, and he was fascinated
with that look of the leg and the line of the high heel shoe.
And so when I went on point, he was like, Oh my gosh, it's even
more extreme. How is that possible?
So he was fascinated with that line and I love those.
And that is the kind of the silhouette looks, isn't it,
where you can see photographers and artists trying to get that
silhouette and what they're how different it is for them to see
your image in different silhouettes.
So it's very cool. What did you wear to get married
to Angus in back in 1997? And Neil Cunningham, So yes, I
was very fortunate to work with Neil for quite a few years and
he had his shop, gosh, right near Piccadilly it was.
And I wore his clothes for many different events.
I just love that kind of he had that era of the Audrey Hepburn
of the 1940s thirties as well. And everything was very simple
and clean, beautiful, nothing, no affectations to his detail.
And so I felt really comfortable in them just.
Describe it to me. Well, my dress.
Oh, my wedding dress. Well, it was really weird.
It it was a high neck, so it had a bodice, a very simple bodice.
And I had a big full skirt that was flat at the front and big at
the back. Is that right?
Yeah. Is that how you describe them
when they're flat and then they go out?
So I had a small trail, but not too much.
And I had a kind of that see through all ganzer over the top.
Then that covered me up to here. And I had a big kind of, it
wasn't a ruffle, but it was a soft WAVY neck frill.
Sounds horrendous, doesn't it? But then lovely long sleeve that
had the same on the sleeve. It was really simple but sounds
very detailed. And then I had small, tiny
little daisies stitched over the whole thing that of course you
couldn't tell at first what they were.
They probably just looked like little spots, but they were
little white daisies. Do you have a style icon?
Yeah, I suppose Audrey Hepburn has always been.
I mean, I know she's style uncommon for so many, but I
suppose it was her as a person as well.
You know, I did a documentary on her and and knew that she was
desperate to be a professional dancer.
Yeah, that's she came to London and came to the ROM Bear, which
was the British ballet where and wanted to be a professional
dancer and trained with a lot of people that coached me and and I
suppose her style and I love the things she always said.
She said well before I would leave the house, I would take at
least two to three things off. I love that yes, I and I do try
and abide by. That, and it's such a good rule,
isn't it? Great advice it really because.
Of course you get a bit carried away and like, oh, we're going
out, will this be fun? And then you're like, no, no,
definitely not those. Yeah.
And it's so healthy. And I and I totally see her, you
know, and I've always watched all her films and loved
everything she's done. So I suppose that obsession with
how she looked in films, but also somebody like Katharine
Hepburn as well because she had that where she wear the the kind
of man suit but look incredibly feminine.
Even though she was this strong outspoken woman.
I love her as well for those contrasts, you know, and
incredibly sexy, actually empower, yes, incredibly sexy
for somebody who you know, for the her time would have been
very unfavored to be so outspoken as a woman and kind of
opinionated, which is just so cool.
Now you were appointed OBE in 1995, ACBE in 2006 and an
incredible DBE in 2018, all for services to ballet and dance.
I mean congratulations so well deserved.
These are really important moments.
What did you wear in 2018 when you became a Dame?
Wow, I do, I do remember my outfit.
I'm trying to remember the final, can't remember the
Steiner. Describe describe the outfit to
me. Well, it was, it was a bit last
minute I have to say. Now why?
I can't, I can't remember why I ran out of time.
You know, you should never run out of time for an opportunity
like that and the whole, you know, fun and honor of it all.
But you've been there twice before.
No, it wasn't that at all. It was I just I with the kids
and, and, and work and everything.
And I did feel rushed and I remember being very lucky and
being given everything to wear. And I suppose that also changed
everything. So I remember going to the the
Milliner and that was in the King's Road and saying these are
my colors, but I'd like something small and just leaving
it with her. I know, crazy.
So I don't think I really planned that very well, but I
enjoyed it. I had a dress on that had big
flowers on it. My dad didn't like it, but I I
actually felt really fun in it. And I had a little pink jacket
which if anything I probably should have worn that the whole
time, but it was a really hot day so I didn't get to wear the
little pink jacket which I was really upset about.
So that would probably would balanced it all out a bit.
So yes, that. Have you presented you the
Queen? The Queen?
I know I was so fortunate for all my honours I was had the
Queen and of course you don't know it's gonna be the Queen.
No, you don't know until the morning of.
Do you? Well, not yeah.
I mean, they literally tell you as soon as you walk in so that
that is the joy. And they expect the bit of
excitement of it all is who? Who, who's gonna give you or
not. Yeah.
We talk about hair, makeup, and manicures, just for one.
Moment. Look at my hands.
But we can talk about hair and makeup then actually in the
ballet. Do you always have your makeup
and hair done for you? Your makeup, usually yourself,
yeah. I mean, things have slightly
changed, but it was only normally hair that was always
done. And that's also because it has
to be a certain way or a certain style for the certain ballet.
But also it, it mustn't fall out.
As you can imagine. We've got a.
Lot of. Hair.
I've got a lot of hair. I always, I was actually told
when I was at school maybe I should have it thinned.
And I was like, you know, no, no, you can't do that.
And thank goodness I never did. But yeah, it's certain styles
were difficult, so we wouldn't do those ourselves.
It would only be occasionally, but makeup, it was so much more
efficient to do it ourselves. I mean, the principals do have
makeup artists now. So before a show that they can
get ready and, and book themselves in and, and that
whole schedule before you prepare for a show is incredibly
important. How you plan that so that you're
not ready too early and you know all that are not too late.
So that was very important, but I kind of got mine down to an
efficient time that we always spent about two hours to prepare
for a show. And I know that sounds probably
ridiculously too long, but we'd have to fit in a warm up as
well. Then the girls, of course, our
point shoes, how many shoes we wanted were ready and prepared
for a performance would depend on the show as well.
And, and then the whole costumes or other things that you'd want
to go through to make sure everything felt right.
Didn't matter how many times you've done that.
Show you you would do the same prep every time.
And so a Pointe shoe wouldn't last you an entire show.
It's so dependent because if you, I suppose, yeah, the role,
I mean you couldn't if it was a three out ballet.
I mean, some dancers can wear one pair of Pointe shoes for
three acts, but be pretty rare only because you want them at a
you don't want the rock hard to start with.
They have to be quiet and that's really important because nobody
wants to hear clogs going across the stage.
So they have to be quiet. And so that preparing them for
that role, and especially if it's more jumps or it's more
turns or it's more balances, every role is slightly
different. So the shoe also has to be
adapted for that role. What is in a Pointe?
Shoe, yes. What is in?
So there's no block where they're called blocks or some
brands they call them block, but there it is only glue and paper
mache and canvas with a Saturn edge.
So uncomfortable. Yeah, it does.
But weirdly. Yes.
I mean you do it for so many years and also the build up of
getting used to being on point because it's so unusual.
I mean, health and safety would never even dream of putting
anybody in a point shoe anymore. But hopefully they never take us
out of them because that's our uniqueness.
That's what makes us different, that's what's special.
And also the technique in the point shoe is unique, What we
can do in a point shoe and how that creates something piece of
magic, you know, and the quality and everything about it and that
history. So it, it is an unusual thing.
And the strength of the actual foot and the ankle is incredibly
important before you ever work in a point shoe.
And the toe. Toe.
Toe, well, obviously toes that are more the same length.
Yeah, it sounds really weird. No, but I can.
I can really. See that 100 times better for
longevity and less injuries or stress fractures or anything
like that through the feet. But if you're got very angled
toes then you have more problems counting.
Your wardrobe, silly. My wardrobe.
Is it phenomenally organized? I feel it's organized.
A lot of other people wouldn't say.
That Do you have a stylist? Do you still work?
With a no, I don't. I do it all myself and so I make
still plenty of mistakes. Do you have one item of clothing
that means the most to you? Well, that's a really nice
question. I have a Ralph Lauren jacket
that I don't think will ever go out to date.
And it's something, isn't it, about that?
Describe it to me. Well, I have one fun one, which
is like a bomber jacket, which is red with the stripes on the
shoulder, and it's got polo on the back or something, I don't
know. And it's a real vintage piece
now, and I'm so glad I've held on to it.
And then I just have the classic blazer, you know, and I don't
know something. And I have a, an Armani one I
remember getting in a sail which is really sparkly.
And that is a beautiful tailored sparkly jacket.
And it's weirdly as a brown sparkle and it's fitted to the
waist. It crosses over and then it just
flares out on the hip. I get very attached because
everything comes from a memory for me.
And that's a real problem, isn't it?
Not. Not at all.
I don't know. It's almost a diary I think
sometimes, as long as you've got the the space to hold onto that.
Well, I really admired my mum because she's hung on to an
amazing like, Aussie Clark, close because she knew Aussie
Clark and just these wonderful wardrobe of, you know, brilliant
outfits. Yeah.
I mean, let's talk about sustainable fashion for a
moment. What's your approach to that?
I think that's incredibly important.
I mean, my girls are very clear that they just want to buy
secondhand good clothes. Lovely.
And I'm like, wow, I'm so impressed because I get bored
very quickly. So that's why my wardrobes are a
little bit big than it should be because I do enjoy going out and
looking for new stuff. It's a bit of therapy for me.
I don't always buy, but I do enjoy the whole search.
That's why I'm not very good as an online shopper at all.
But I do respect now that going out there and buying second hand
clothes is brilliant. I saw a brilliant dress of
yours, a suede mini dress. Oh, it was like a Navy suede and
it was just cut away quite tight under the armpits, like quite
low and just short here in a second hand shop.
And I was like, I don't think I can fit into that, sadly.
Oh. But I did want to buy it for my
daughter when one of my girls, because I thought, oh, she'll
wear that. And I thought I won't buy it
right now. I'll come back.
And I think it went, they do funny that they do.
I know. I was so impressed that I saw
it. I was.
Oh lovely. I love it.
I love walking past a second hand shop and seeing a piece in
the window and you just sort of think that's on it's a whole.
But it's another journey and it's been loved.
It's like, you know, moving into a new house or flat or
something. It's been loved by somebody else
and then and you're going to give it that love as well.
Let's spin on to some quick fire questions.
What fashion advice would you give your 20 year old self?
Keep it simple. Which fashion trend or era would
you most like to see make a comeback?
The 30s fashion or beauty trend you would consign to room 101.
The 80s. Last impulse buy Azara dress
views on tattoos. No.
Beauty treatment you couldn't give up.
Hair. I couldn't give up hair.
High end or High Street? I think it has to be high end
because then you have a piece that lasts forever.
Bling or bear? Bling.
Minimalism or maximalism? Minimalism, Crocs, cute or puke?
Puke. Sneakers or stilettos?
Sneakers. Boyfriends or wide legs, wide
legs, body con O boho O boho sports lux or rock chick.
Rock Chick. Red carpet or relax?
Oh, I'm really mixed there. That's the weird one.
That's two extremes. I I think red carpet.
Trend or style? Trend.
Color or monochrome? Color, experimental or uniform?
Experimental. Cashmere or cotton?
Cashmere. Beanie or Berry?
Beanie. Hoarder or editor?
Hoarder shapewear or lingerie? Lingerie.
Tights or stockings? Tights, Bikini or one piece?
One piece? Finally, traditional last
question. At the end of the day, what do
you or don't you wear in bed? I I wear a pair of shorts and
sounds really weird like boxes. Anything on top?
Depends how I'm feeling. I'm getting cold.
I will wear a T-shirt but nothing too fancy.
Darcy, thank you so much for your fun and insightful
conversation. It's been brilliant to talk all
things clothes and ballet now. Lots of fun.
Thank. You so much enjoyed it.