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I'm going on a style journey with the British stylist,
editor, author and long standing champion of second hand fashion,
often called the Queen of Thrift.
She's known for her eclectic vintage infuse styling and her
belief in the creativity and sustainability of re wearing
clothes. The wonderful BAE Garnet.
Hello and welcome BAE. Hi, Amanda.
Thank. You we have met a few times over
the years, inhabiting this extraordinary world of fashion.
Feels like the fashion world is a bit of at a bit of a pivotal
moment right now. It's a lot of talk of
sustainability, a lot of greenwashing, and I just
wondered where you think the fashion world's heading.
I get asked this and the truth is I actually don't really know.
I don't really know. I think that the fashion world
has changed massively. I can only say that in the last
five years in terms of watching the way that second hand has
become as present, as shoppable, as popular as new clothes.
And that's been quite amazing. The way that when something
shifts, sometimes it really shifts quickly to pinpoint kind
of go, and then it just goes and it kind of just does.
And it did that in terms of the future of fashion, you know,
there's always going to be that creativity and London's such an
incredible place to bring that out and, you know, in the talent
where the where people are. So, you know, I hope all that's
still flourishing. But in terms of the future of in
terms of the planet, I think that second hand will will just
grow and grow and grow because that's what we're going to have
to do. It feels to me like the fashion
world is just massively overproducing and the business
model is to sell more. But realistically, what needs to
happen to sort of readjust it? I mean, you're yes.
And actually I knowing some of the stats because I do work with
Oxfam and so I can try and get a bit of proper information about
that. And, you know, the amount of
clothes that were overproduced, the amount of clothes going to
landfill, the amount of clothes going to waste is completely
unsustainable even in a climate where there was no climate
emergency. It's not, it's, it's just not
right. But with what's happening, I
think that what has to happen is some kind of much tougher,
tougher regulations. I mean, I'm not an expert in
that, but I think and feel the same as almost everybody else,
you know, that we just something has to, something has to, there
has to be more, there has to be more measures to stop this
incredible amount of waste. You mentioned stats.
Can you just give me a couple of the the ones that really stick
in your brain as being the most disturbing?
I mean, I'm really bad at remembering stats, but I suppose
one stats is that 13 million items of clothes go to British
landfills week 13,000,001 three million.
That's one three. But you know, but also you just
think where I mean, where is that?
I don't, I don't, I actually don't know where that particular
or those particular landfills are.
Yes, the 13 million landfill is quite George offering.
That's just in the UK. The other amazing stat that
people wouldn't know is that fashion is a bigger polluter
than aviation and shipping put together.
And who would have thought, you know?
And so that's quite a well known stat now, but I think if you
don't know that stat, it's really jaw-dropping.
It is pretty jaw-dropping. And do you?
So are you saying that you feel that I don't want to put words
in your mouth, but legislation has to kick in before something
is going to going to happen to change the industry.
Well, I don't see how. I don't see why, how there could
be any other way because there isn't another way because
everyone knows, you know, all the people produce over
producing all the people, you know, buying stuff and chucking
it away like no one is. You can't not know what's
happening. So this is, you know, it's not
working with everything being left to ourselves.
The system is broken. Well, it's not working properly.
I mean, it's not broken. A little bit of the business is
still happening and all that. There's just, you know, this
other thing that's happening all around us that is not being
dealt with. I mean, I know you spoke at COP
21 about ways to decarbonise the industry.
Do you feel that anything has changed since then?
I think that probably, if you were to ask, I'm sure, I'm sure
things have changed since then. And the big thing that's changed
in my world is or the thing that I do know about and I'm not an
expert on systems and, and produce and all of that stuff.
A lot of people are, I'm not. But what has changed is that
many, many more people are wearing second hand.
They are buying second hand, they are subscribing to second
hand and and so that has changed a lot and the last five years I
would say massively. And so yes, things have changed.
So that's great. I mean, you spearheaded with
Oxfam style for change. Can you just tell me a little
bit about that? Yeah, it was a fashion show.
So 10 years ago I did something with Oxfam and then I got a call
and they said, would you consider doing the Oxfam, you
know, styling a fashion show? And, and at first I was kind of
terrified. My God, I don't, I don't, I
can't do that. And then of course, you know,
it's a really exciting challenge.
So that was, we did the first one in 2016, so 9 years ago.
And that was called fashion fighting poverty.
And and then, you know, 10 years later, we haven't done one every
year, but the idea is really to highlight, to kind of turn that
energy and those ideas and that momentum onto the runway of
showcasing different vibes, different ideas that there is
something for everybody, no matter what your style is.
That's what I try and do. That's.
A. Monster job.
I mean, just run me through the process.
Do you go out to one of the big warehouses and sift?
Yes, I do. I I have helped sifting and
yeah, and I, but to me, that's my, you know, seeing a big
cardboard box, I've got a RIP open with clothes falling out of
it and trying to find something that, you know, says something
to me. I mean, that's, you know, it's
what we talked about before the podcast started.
That's the dressing up box for me.
So that feels like home. That feels what I can do.
So for me, I'd I love that. I love the chaos.
I love kind of going to the chaos and then trying to make
that into something that is fashion, that is, you know,
alluring, that is inspiring. Love that, love that.
And you have got something coming up collaboration with
Smartworks. And also side note, beginning
note, and that is if you are interested in clothes and you
see clothes as a source of pleasure or giving you a sense
of power in your life, then you cannot not love Smartworks just
just in just for us all. But Smartworks is basically a
charity. It's about providing clothes and
mentorship, mentoring people, women for women who are going to
their first jobs or who've been out of work for a long time, who
don't have the resource or they don't have the money, they don't
have the confidence to, you know, to turn up at these job
interviews, you know, with the right clothes.
And, and so it's a, it's a, it's both things.
It's, it's, it's they prep with the, they prep with these women
of how to conduct a good interview of.
And then they will dress them for the interview.
And then after the interview, once they've got the job, they
will be given several outfits that will kind of set them on
the way. So it's, yeah, it's, it's so I
think I've, I mean, in a nutshell, I mean, I'm sure they
would say it much better, but in a nutshell, it's about the pair
of clothes and confidence. No, I I think it's a fantastic
cause, but what are you doing with them?
I am doing a thristle, a charity shop as it were.
It's going to be called The Village Attic and I have sourced
at Vista Village and it's from the 21st, no sorry, the 23rd of
October and it's up for a month and I've curated and sourced
everything in there. I have thrifted.
So you'll have a real mix of things.
So I've, I've gone to Smartworks and I've done an edit from them
and then I've bought lots of things that I love from the
market from charity shop. So it could be a 1970s leopard
jacket, it could be a polka dot dress from the 1960s.
And then you'll have more kind of like you've got Prada, you've
got all these amazing gems and it's, and so it is a charity.
So all the money goes to smart works.
It's what I want it to be is like the perfect charity shop.
If you were going to go into your most Fantasy park charity
shop, what would it be? Might be a little Prada dress or
it might be a leper jacket, or it might be like a lovely little
painting, or it might be a cushion cover.
And I hope it's going to have all of that.
But so I've sourced everything but all the money from the
sales, 100% of it will go to Smartworks.
Amazing. What's the best find you've
you've found on your on your sourcing for that?
Oh, so far, what's my best find? Probably look at polka dot polka
dot dress that when anyone sees it, everyone.
So I just want that dress. It's a pretty perfect dress.
It's, it's actually the 1970s polka dot dress.
I love that. I found an amazing leopard
jacket from the 70s, kind of sleazy, great bright leopard
print. So yeah, I found some, I found
some. Everything that I've got I, I
have loved. And I think that's, that's
always the gauge for drifting like, well, what would I love?
OK, well then they might love it too.
Can will anyone be able to find you there at any point over the
the month that the store is open?
Yeah, I want to go down a lot. Yeah, I've got.
I've always wanted to be a shop owner, so I'll be there, yeah.
To say when I had my brand, I loved being on the shop floor.
There's nothing better than than seeing someone coming out of the
the changing room transformed. You can see from their body
language. Yeah, it's a good combo.
It's a great. Combo knowing that you've really
you've given someone a a feeling of strength and power.
And a good time. And themselves.
And I love that. I know, but I can imagine Paul
Smith goes a lot. My husband was changing for
something and he felt a hand like kind of knocking his
shoulder into place on his suit. And it was Paul Smith.
Yeah, yeah. Now you I have to include this,
you famously put Kate Moss in that banana vintage T-shirt.
And what was your thought process at the time when you
were preparing that shoot? Well, it was really fun because
I'd never done a fashion shoot before and I'd done these fake
campaigns for this fancy and cheap date, and I had done so
I'd used thrift store clothes. So Salvation Army, Yusan Iran
became Salvation Army and Burberry became borrowed and
Prada became poached and Calvin Klein became cancer care and
Bulgari became budget. So they all look like campaigns.
But I we, we we did the font. So on first glance, it looked
like San on. Anyway, to cut a Long story
short, the editor of Vogue saw those Alexandra Shulman, and she
said she liked them. And she said, I got called in.
I mean, you know, and she was like, would you want to be a
contributing fashion editor? And I was like, OK, but she
said, well, what do you want to do?
And I said, well, can I do a shoot with me and Anita
Pallenberg? Anita was a really good friend
of mine. Anita, you know, Anita
Pallenberg and, and me, me and Anita actually around, you know,
around Chelsea used to go and thrifting all the time.
And I said to Alex, can we do a thrift?
Can we just do a fashion shoot just using our thrifted clothes
from our charity shops? Because I'd never done a fashion
shoot before, I wouldn't know how to.
It was all I knew how to do. I didn't know star.com, I didn't
know how the system works. So in a way, when people say to
me that was the first charity shop shoot that Vogue ever did,
that's quite radical actually. It was more Alex actually who
was radical because I didn't know anything else because I
just thrifted. So, So yeah, we went.
I remember going round to Anita's that evening with my
black bin liner of clothes and I said are we going to do a shoot
for Vogue? And she went.
OK. And yeah, and she like cackled
her laugh with her great clothes on and her, you know.
Anyway, so we both gathered stuff that we loved.
Did you know it was going to be Kate at this stage?
No, I no, I didn't. And then and the options and
then it was and then, you know, I remember, yeah, we said, oh,
we'd we'd love Kate. And then we got thing back.
I didn't even know about options.
And it's like, oh, we've got a Kate Moss.
We've got a first on Kate Moss and, and Jurgen's going to do
it. And we said Jurgen and then, you
know, and and so that was it. And then I, my banana top
actually was the first thing I knew was going to go in.
I knew how cool it was. I knew how original it was and
we were really lucky at that time because fashion was doing
something quite different. So that story, because it was so
it was second hand clothes. So it wasn't.
I didn't look at fashion magazines and nor did Anita.
And so it was just it's own thing because we weren't.
Not because we were turning against anything, just simply
because it wasn't really what we did.
We went drifting and we we weren't went if we did, we're
just fashion magazines weren't what we were looking at at all.
So it was quite probably quite a fresh different sort of look on
clothes maybe at that moment. What's next for you?
God, Oh my God in life. Yeah, in life.
Well, at the moment, I mean, it's funny, I I'm not someone,
probably wrongly, I'm not someone who thinks I'd love to
do another book. I'd love to do a book with
pictures. Can I just say this book is
fabulous as I wade through copy for my book and, and this is
just I, I love flicking through it and just those lovely
anecdotes from, from these amazing people that you've
interviewed or no? Well, I think that stories
around, you know, why what we wear matters is it's really
interesting. You know, people talk about
clothes being, you know, they kind of get a bad rap of being
superficial, but actually. Ovane.
Ovane And actually, it's just so not about that, you know?
What would your next book be? My next book would probably be a
inspired by my favorite star book of all time called Cheap
Chic by Catherine Milenaire and Carol Troy went in the 70s and
it's all about dressing for style and shoestring.
And I really like the idea of doing something with that.
But I love to have lots of pictures.
So that's kind of in my head of how you do an updated one of
that. Anyway, I don't know why I'm
saying that because it's just something that I've been.
Thinking put it out. There, put it out there.
Absolutely. Now today we are going on a
style journey and it's your style journey.
So can you talk me through your look today?
Oh, I mean, my goodness, my style journey is my trainers are
from on because they're very comfortable.
But usually I wear Martin Majello pumps, Abby ones.
That's my go to for pumps. I'm quite uniform and my skirt
is a really old long skirt I've had for years and it's from, I
think it's from like a High Street shop.
It's not fancy at all. My sweater is an old thrift one
that it got and it's black cashmere.
I love cashmere. I love cashmere rollnecks.
I like the kind of 70s thing of it.
I like covering my neck. I like, I like the cosiness of
it And I so I always wear, I often wear rollnecks and so this
one is an A man's one I've got. I was going to say, would you
say that's a man's one? Yeah, this is.
From the man's rail in a charity shop.
And so yeah, I, I like a rollneck.
And then I always wear my necklace, which has got
different things on it and my charm from Anushka.
And then, oh, I've got belt on which is actually there.
Can you see it? It's this is actually Chloe,
this season's Chloe. So I do like to mix.
So I have a Valentino bag. So I, I'm quite kind of, I'm
more in the school of I guess like thrift or high fashion.
And if you're mixing high fashion or new pieces in there,
do they do the new pieces tend to be designer?
Tend to be where, I mean, I buy, I, yeah, I buy like I don't buy
much, but I do on the whole I, that's what I tend to do, yeah.
Are you very conscious of what the High Street are doing?
No, no, I'm interested. And sometimes, and I think some
of this, you know, lots of the stuff that happens on the High
Street is brilliant. It's really good.
I mean, the amazing stuff you get at good prices, there's a
lot to be said for that. It's great that people can, you
know who be who they want to be with clothes and do it not too
expensively. I think that's great.
But going back to childhood, were you very aware of your
parents style? I think I was, I think we always
are. You know, my parents, my father
was very stylish in a very understated way.
He wore, he was a brilliant gardener and he always wore,
which has become quite trendy a long time ago actually, the vet
Monte Travais, the blue to Travais, which is the French
blue railway man's jacket. And he always had a pair of
secateurs and he was always very stylish.
And then he has his suits made at Huntsman, but always very
understated. But and Simpson, you know,
Piccadilly and yeah, he was stylish.
But as I say, really. And my mother.
Holly Devlin, who was a an editor at Vogue.
She was, Yeah, she was. She worked with Down at Freeland
and she interviewed lots of amazing people like John Lennon
and Bob Dylan and she wasn't a fashion person so much.
She was a writer and she wasn't. My mum wasn't really that.
My mum's has an incredible eye of more object.
She's never been a clothes person.
I would say mum. She appreciates beauty in
clothes, but clothes weren't her thing really.
So I remember her looking great, but I don't remember being a
very important part of her life. Actually, no.
Exactly. But do you remember that first
moment that you thought, well, I feel great in this?
Yeah, I do. I remember a few times.
I remember when I was probably 8, you know, 6-7.
I loved things in a way that maybe my sisters didn't, you
know, I remember having a remember someone came to our
house and they'd knitted 2 sweaters and one was stripes
with like pastel stripes with pale blue and pale pink and pale
turquoise. And then the other one was more
primary colours. And I just couldn't, I just
couldn't not have the pastel 1, you know.
And I remember it that being like I had, and I did get the
pastel 1 and I remember my sister not caring which one she
got. I don't think she'd even
remember that. And then I had a polar bear
sweater. And yeah, I remember things that
I just loved so much. Are there any of those early
things that you reached for that now you reach for something
similar, the adult version? Actually, it's really
interesting you say that because something I did a this shoot I
did with Kate Moss for Vogue. In that banana print shoot, I
used a pastel striped top that she loved.
I actually gave it to her another time and it was just
like that one when I was little. So actually that's just totally
brought that whole circle back of the pastel top.
I did use it. I'll show you the picture anyway
are. You, conscious of it, do.
You think, well, you just made me use something with something
very directly to that early top. But yeah, I think so completely.
I think that yeah, I mean to answer your question, sorry, I
sort of went, but I sort of went deep.
I went yeah. And I think it's more about that
thing of being obsessive over things or just loving something.
And I think if you have a real love of clothes in that way and
to be a stylist or to, you know, to do what you do, to be, you
know, a designer and then to, you know, you're writing.
But you do, you know, you do so much around clothes.
I think you have to, you know, be an obsessive can't.
Help yourself. Can't help yourself.
It's like a, you know, I don't choose to obsess over bag that I
want. It's ridiculous.
I know it is. And everyone tells me it's shut
up. I'm not.
But I want it and I have to have it.
And I think that that's what close lovers have.
Did you wear a school uniform? Yeah, for a bit.
How did that feel? Fine, I'm quite, I quite like
just being told what to do. And what colour was it?
Navy. Do you wear Navy now?
Not so much. I prefer black.
But do you remember the the first piece of second hand
clothing that you bought? I wish I could.
But I, I remember the yeah, I
remember so often the joy that going into second hand shop
bought me. That and the thrill and that
kind of energy that people talk about where it's almost like a
higher energy, you know, that if you could live like that all the
time, then we'd all be, you know, But that kind of that
flow, that energetic kind of flow.
I always, I often felt that when the when I was, but when I lived
in New York and the thristles were so amazing.
They've all closed down now, sadly, because there's too much
for a marketplace for second hand now for those gems to exist
as they were. But yeah, I, I don't remember
the specific, the first piece, I just don't know.
It's just like in the mix. But was it early on that you
discovered charity? Yeah, it.
Was it was early on? It was early on.
And yeah, it was. I think I started by taking my
sister. I always just was drawn to like
old clothes. There's more storytelling around
that for me. Did you ever dress up in either
your father's clothes or your mother's clothes?
Yeah, I borrowed my father's trousers and yeah, I did.
I did, but I I wasn't really an extra.
I was never kind of camp or exuberant around clothes.
That wasn't really my thing. I was more into the everyday
kind of dress up. I mean, you have this wonderful
Monica, the Queen of thrift. What would you say is the most
exciting piece you've ever found?
I think now it would probably have to be that banana print top
because it's sort of given so much back.
Somehow it's like this thing and it's become, you know, this kind
of it's, yeah. I mean, listen, you know, it's
it's, it's known within a very small, you know, part of the
world, let's be fair. But it it's it's sort of taken
on something which is kind of really nice.
And so probably that, I mean, I don't really wear it anymore.
It's too small, but. Did you used to you?
Used to all the time. Yeah, I loved it.
Yeah. Because it's like a kind of 70s
leotard. It's actually quite posh.
It's got like a posh Parisian label.
It's 1970s kind of Parisian. So it was never just, it was
never like a an unthought out thing.
It was never it was. It was.
Someone designed it beautifully back in the 70s.
And do you still own it? Yeah.
Does your daughter wear it? Oh, she was going to a fancy
dress party and she said, can I wear your banana top?
And it was like a camo party. It was like a jungle party.
And I was like, of course you have to wear something about
that. I'm worried if I get red wine
still on it. And I was like, well, so be it.
Just drink vodkas. Yeah, exactly.
But she just wouldn't wear it. But I like, I love things being
worn. Yeah.
Oh, that's lovely. I mean, what for?
I think some people, I know a lot of people, feel quite
intimidated by the concept of going drifting or second hand
shopping. What tips would you give someone
who wants to give it a go but doesn't really know where to
start? I mean, if you know this idea,
and I think that's why second hand's become so huge recently,
because people are doing it as they would shop new.
So people are using Vinted as they would shop.
I mean any other online shopping brand, right, clothes brand.
And so, you know, you just treat it.
What do you, what do you want? What are you looking for?
Are you looking for a black cashmere rollneck?
OK, so go in and have a look and look in the men's section and to
go in with something in mind. And then chances are you might
not find the black cashmere rollneck, but you might find a
fabulous burgundy one or you might find, you know, a fabulous
shirt that you kind of were looking for, but you didn't
really know you're looking for. So it's quite, it's good to go
when sometimes people go and they're like, and they're kind
of blank. But you don't go into High
Street shops or fashion shops blank on the whole.
You go in curious. And so I think that it's
important, you know, you've got to, you've got to work a bit
hard. You know, you've got to go in
with a sense of purpose. And I, I would like to find
something. And I actually do believe in
thrifting karma. I do believe.
I've had it so many times. I remember going in once and I
want to get something, I want to find something.
And I went round and I went round the shop and I said it's
nothing. But I know there's something
here. I know and I want it.
And you will, you will show yourself to me.
And then I went round again and it did.
And it was a fabulous beaten up or denim jacket that I've used
on shoots. It was really.
Like, hey, hey. Here I am.
No, it sound like a lunatic, but I do believe that, yeah.
I don't know what it is, but there isn't, you know, there is
a kind of, I don't know, there's something going on in the kind
of there is something going on. I feel like things, things will
pop out when you want them to. I really the best thing I ever
found in a thrift store was the Isan Aran Safari suit that
Rushka wore for £500 and more. But so 500 lbs is not nothing
but. For flight, nothing for that.
For that it really. And I've lent it somewhere, of
course. Still got it, but, you know, so
that was incredible. Yeah.
Like they're literally the suit on on.
You can't even get that. So where are your favorite
favorite haunts? I love the British Red Cross
around the corner from here. Right Touch St.
Yes, it's great. I love one near my mum's in
Chiswick. Really, really good.
I love again red. Cross Cancer Care.
Oxfam I love the one on I love the one on Portobello Rd. the
British Red Cross and New York was on Portobello Rd.
I mean, The thing is right is that now, you know, charity
shops have changed. So it's just about just popping
in and there being something that speaks to you, you know
that you love and often times you don't see anything.
But I also feel very comfortable in charity shops.
There's I feel I've spent so long in them and I've, you know,
in a way it sounds, I don't mean, I really don't mean to
sound grandiose, but it's slightly been a life's work in
that sense of like I've done, I've saw so much from there and
I've spent so much of my life in them that the kind of the chaos
and the randomness and the records and the old CDs and it
feels, I don't know, I feel kind of comforted by them.
I like chatting to people as well.
You know, people are like the atmosphere and the people and.
The people that work in charity shops are fantastic.
Like talking to them and having chats, what's selling?
And I, I just think it's interesting.
So it's a it's a whole world, yeah.
What do you think is really trending in in the second hand
shops at the moment? Pump apparently I don't know.
My daughter tells me, but I don't know is the answer.
I think pumps are a big thing online second hand, but I I
don't know. I've I've never been a trend
trend person. So I just, I don't really know.
Is there anything you wouldn't buy second hand?
I wouldn't buy knickers. I wouldn't buy a swimsuit.
I wouldn't buy socks. There's a lot I wouldn't buy.
There's a lot, but you don't. You don't get knickers, so
that's ridiculous. But I wouldn't buy.
I probably wouldn't buy. Maybe I'd buy a swimsuit, but it
was amazing. I probably wouldn't buy my
artwork. I wouldn't.
But I don't like thrift art unless it's a kind of real
piece, you know, that's not thrift art.
Does that make sense? I don't like things looking
thrifty. I like things looking chic.
I'm not. I'm not into thrift.
When people say God, you know, I just love retro.
I hate that word retro. Interesting, interesting.
What about fur? Yeah, I mean, I would never buy
new fur. But actually, you know, a really
good friend of mine, really good friend of mine, her mum died
recently and I went down to look at her wardrobe and sort of, and
she had this insane 1970s Yves San Ron Reeve Ghosh mink coat
with epilepse. And she was like, I just can't
wear it because, you know, it's fur.
I don't wear fur. And I said it's amazing on you
and it's a real piece. And so for me, I don't mean to
sound kind of clueless, although maybe it sounds it, but I think
if something has been an animal has been killed for a piece of
clip for something, I think that's horrible.
And I would never now 10 years ago, maybe I have bought a real
piece of fur, but years ago, but now I would never, ever buy fur,
not for years. But the fact is that thing
exists and it's died. And in a way, and maybe in a
slightly kind of ridiculous way, the Marie Antoinette, you know,
I feel like wear it and love it because what's what, you know,
wear it and love it. Not, not, not, not by no means
saying to, you know, so it didn't die in vain.
That sounds ridiculous. But but the my philosophy is,
yeah, you know, unless what someone would say to me,
actually you are promoting new fur being cooked, then that's a
whole other thing. I don't know if that happens.
But yes, I probably wouldn't buy second hand fur, but I wouldn't
not wear it. If I, my mum gave me something,
if she had something, I'd wear it, yeah.
I mean, it was a very different era.
It was such a different era and it's great that it's great that
now that's become it's not OK to kill animals so that we can look
nice and be a bit warmer. You've worked around the fashion
industry for so many years, when do you feel that you really
discovered your style DNA? I don't know, in my 20s I kind
of really experimented and I wore SA La Ron and I put my hair
in like a head tub and you know, like Cossacked.
I was so inspired by 70s and SA La Ron.
I really went there and and I loved that.
I really dressed up the dressing up box, but I think, you know,
maybe even having children actually, because after I had
children, I I didn't have the energy or the want to dress up
in that way. And so that's probably actually
when I turn to what's usually my sort of signature for me, which
is like, maybe, you know, I wear, you know, maybe long skirt
pumps and, you know, a sweater AT shirt.
I love belts. I've got lots of odds on wrong
belts and I like simplicity, but with signature details can.
We talk about belts for a moment because I'm obsessed with belts.
I always have been. And I loved, you know, belting a
silk evening gown with a bridal leather belt because it made it
just cooler to me. And I'd love to know why you
love belts so much. It's funny actually, because I
always loved belts and if you see pitches of me in the 20s, in
my 20s, I've always got a belt on.
And then actually a really good friend of mine, Charlotte
Tilbury is obsessed with belts. And I remember like, like seeing
her and her belts, I stopped wearing them.
I had children, I put on weight. And actually it was her that got
me completely back into belts and, and it really was actually,
and, and, and I think she said to me, well, I'm with your
belts, don't really wear your, you don't really wear your
belts. And so now it's funny, I see her
belts and then I, I get inspired and I'm like, I've got that belt
and I'll find one like hers and, and, and everything.
So I think that, you know, sometimes it's really nice when
your friends can kind of jog, jog you into what you'd actually
love, but that you might have become a bit not lazy, but you
know, that you've forgotten about.
And then you go, oh, yeah, that that's me.
That is my style DNA. I'll take that back.
Do you have a style icon? Yeah, I've got a few.
I've got Debbie Harry, I think, was insanely stylish.
Anita Pallenberg was brilliantly stylish.
All the obvious ones. Jane Birkin, incredibly stylish.
The movie styles of the 1940s. That kind of bitchy, evil kind
of Joan Crawford, you know, you know that.
You know, the golden age of Hollywood, no one looked better
than those movie stars with the kind of the leopard and the and
the silk and the the hair and the eyes.
And so, yeah, contemporary people.
Chloe, 70, very stylish. Kate Moss has got great style.
Not so much like the red carpet kind of people for me.
Like, it's not something that particularly speaks to me.
The kind of lots of celebrity. It's not.
Yeah, you know, it's not it's. Not necessarily.
Kendall Jenner's got great style, actually, Yeah, I kind of
like that part down. And I like people who I like
style where you feel like, I mean, well, having said that,
the Hollywood style, it's so kind of, it was wonderfully kind
of manufactured, but it was so there was something, you know,
it was really going for something.
But yeah, I loved that. But Marilyn Monroe looked
amazing. Lots and lots of people,
actually, yeah. And did those icons, because
they were icons, do they inspire?
Your your shoots, your Yeah, often.
Yeah, I've done a lot of shoots inspired by, you know, I did a
shoot with Debbie Hashallock till we did the make up Kate,
his style. I styled it.
So I styled it. It was a cover of of British
Vogue and it was of Sophie Dallas, Debbie Harry.
Oh, that was fantastic, by the way.
But so I, I often, yeah, I often do, yeah.
I do often have like a reference point of somebody for sure.
You know, I think that if you're a stylist, I mean fashion,
otherwise fashion can be a very blank canvas and that's quite
boring. I think it has to come from a
character or somewhere that's alive and that's that's been
real. So do you mood board a shoot
before doing it, or is it all about the clothes that you're
gathering? How do you go about that?
Yeah, I mean, sometimes it can be a postcard.
I remember for a shoot I did in Hungary for British Vogue with
Greneville van Seamus, and it was literally like a postcard of
a girl walking in front of a building of of a Soviet block
building wearing pastels. And so that was it was the idea
of this kind of postcards from the Edge.
So it's kind of Soviet washed out story.
So yeah, it can be a postcard. And other times it's the idea
of, yeah, like a road trip story.
So that could be a still from that was a Sissy space deck from
Badlands. Yeah.
So very, very like boys movies or or music or yeah, definitely
for me. Because otherwise and I actually
when I look at fashion shoots, I can often see when it doesn't
have that because for me it's just very flat and 1 dimensional
and it doesn't doesn't speak, doesn't say anything to me.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I just personally don't relate to fashion in that way.
I mean, your partner is the photographer Tom Craig.
Do you remember what you were wearing when you first met him?
Yeah, I remember that we were going to a party with friends
and and I wouldn't come off the I had a balcony and I wouldn't
come out of the balcony. So I was in a really bad mood.
We were all going convoy and my friend was going, darling, we're
waiting for you have to come out now.
And I was like, no, no want to come.
And I'm sorry. I don't remember what I was
wearing now. I was like, it was just like a
but I but the first night. Sorry, I'm going to start that
question again. I remember the night that we
kind of like got it together because it was a I can fancy
dress and I was wearing black and I had these huge that I got
from a thrift store, huge blue bright leaf Cline sequin
earrings. And I had a clutch to match that
I got in Bali. And I used to love putting them
together and and red lips. And I still have the photos.
So I was dressed up, which by the way, always helps.
Bit of a fabulous dress up, you know, you know, helps the love
potion take shape, you know, But yeah.
But yeah, so I remember when, you know, I don't remember when
we first met. So it was just, I don't know.
I do. I was wearing a massive vintage
fox fur jacket with big shoulders, quite kind of Crystal
Carrington from Dynasty. That's what I was wearing.
And I felt fabulous in it. It was so like.
It's too much. Big statement, big statement.
And how does he love to see you dressed?
I mean, he sees me of course, in all sorts of things, usually no
make up tracksuit, you know, if it's in the evening.
So, but he's very, I don't know, maybe some men are demanding
about how their partners look or try and say, assert what they
think, but he doesn't ever but. That's great, surely.
That's. Great, that's to him.
Respecting my mood, yes. And you being the stylist that
you are too, do you, do you work together frequently?
We have, we do work together and we have worked a lot.
We've done a lot of, we did a lot of shoots together for
British Vogue when there was lots of budgets to go to all
sorts of places in the world. We went to huge.
We went to Hungary and Cuba and LA and Damascus.
And you know, it was really, really fun when the kids were
young and I would sometimes take them with us.
So it's kind of a lot, but it was fantastic.
We're so lucky and there were lots of budgets, you know, you
couldn't do well, it'd be hard to do that now.
So yeah, we have done a lot of work together and he's a really
good photographer, so it's pretty nice, you know?
Yeah. Do you ever disagree when you're
working together? I I think I can just annoy him.
I can be a bit like in his ear going have you got that?
Have you got that? Have you got that?
But, and I'll give suggestions, which can maybe be, you know,
yeah, I mean, but we, we usually agree and we agree when
something is boring or when it doesn't look like, yeah, we, we
do. We we do, we are in agreement
quite a lot if something's not right or if it's really good.
Is age a consideration as to how you dress?
Yes, I never said it. I never thought it would be, but
I can't. I can't help it now.
It just sort of I, I want to sort of like push it away and
say to myself that the, you know, they're part of me.
That was always like, I'm never going to do that.
I'm never going to subscribe to age.
But the truth is, is that I do. I just do.
In what way? I kind of just think, how would
this look if I'm going to buy something and I want to wear it
for a long time or how's it going to?
Is that going to make me look? Am I going to want to not even
am I going to wear that because if I buy something, I will
probably love it forever because I know myself so well, but it's
more like is that going to is that going to carry well?
Does that am IA bit old for that?
Does it? You know, just those questions
and they're not insecure questions.
I think they're perfectly normal questions of of and I've never
cared what other people think of me.
It's about myself and how I feel.
Totally. Do you?
Do you Do you feel the same way? Completely and utterly, and I
think clothes should be absolutely about how they make
you feel so that you can just get on and be the best version
of you. Simple as that.
But in terms of the ageing process, do you what Are there
any particular style hacks that you feel are useful for
remaining a little bit cool as the years tick by?
Well, I think what we talked about earlier, I think about,
you know, I think about this kind of ageless Jackie Kennedy,
Jackie Onassis was worrying about with her trousers late in
life. So was paid Paley, all those
Upper East Side women, your belts, and I'm just using them
because I love that. That's 70s kind.
Of they're quite a style signifier, aren't they?
A belt. They are exactly and they kind
of, they're kind of they're add a smartness and a Polish quite
often to an outfit and a star signature.
So I think for me, like a belt and a bag are quite good ways to
really retain for me a signature.
I know plenty of women who'd look fabulous dressed in like a
suit and that's their thing. They they're really par down.
I am not that person. I'm not that editor.
I'm not that kind of cool. Par down.
A grey suit with a pair of black heels.
I've never been that. I like stuff too much.
I like I'm too much for a magpie.
I guess those people don't have to think about this because they
just look fabulous all the time and what they were.
But yes, I, for me, I think it's more about the details.
Maybe as you get older, you know, we're both wearing long
gold jewellery. So, you know, it's, it's, it's
sort of like the tweaks of what you love and then maybe keeping
the base a bit more simple. Perhaps, no, I like that.
I like it a lot because I think we know our silhouette, our base
and then it is about possibly that bag that might be a little
bit quirky or the jewellery or yeah, no, I'm not getting in a
stuck in a rut on our jewellery. Can we talk about your jewellery
for a moment? Because you've got this lovely
be. Sure, I have my purple one on my
favorite one, but I'm not wearing it today.
Yes, thank you. Yeah.
So this one, Anishka, the brilliant jewellery signer, I
was doing the My Life in Seven charms.
And this, this is a clothes hanger that says I love
thrifting. And it's when I used to go
thrifting New York, I'd sometimes take things to get dry
cleaned and then it would come back on a hanger that said I
love New York. So it kind of reminds me of
those, those kind of New York, those New York days.
Yeah. And then this, this was on
something. Yeah.
My mum had on something. These are just sort of put
together and. Yeah.
And then the chunkier gold chain that's.
That's the nushka. Is it?
Yeah. Gorgeous.
And then I've got a little one here, so that is.
Layers coming out of the roll neck.
That is cross and then I've got AB actually Charlotte gave me, I
didn't a little diamond and I got my birthday about five years
ago that B and then that cross that Tom gave me.
So yeah. Lovely.
And then loads of earrings. Yeah, Harris, Brilliant Harris.
We did these, but I think Misama and he gave me those which I
love. Thank you, Harry.
And mismatching. Yes, they come as a separate,
then mismatching and then, Oh yeah, this.
I love this. It's by this brilliant designer
and I can't remember them. Very trendy, very cool, and I
forgot her name, but she basically I love it.
It's a lip with a lip ring in rubies with a silver lip ring.
You know, I mean talk about age appropriate.
But what about that word age appropriate?
Zach, listen and it's what you said.
It's only how you feel. I don't care what's age
appropriate. I just who does?
I mean, who literally what is age appropriate?
Age appropriate is perhaps when we look at someone and there is
our own sort of judge mental system, you know, where we see
someone and we're like, maybe you're, I, I, I'm just saying we
all have it right where we make those kind of good judgements
and, you know, generous judgements.
And then perhaps maybe not so generous judgements.
But but AJ, I think it's more about how we feel, isn't it?
It really is. But do you know, but something
feels a bit off if you're wearing something that just
doesn't. And it's not even about how you
might look. It's about how you feel more.
Do you feel that the fashion world caters for the I?
OK, I the silver # let's put it that way.
Well. I think that, you know, the
silver # the older age, you know, has changed so much now
that actually I like that. You know, I think that, you
know, I think there's something for everyone.
I mean, you know what you're wearing today, you could be 30
and wear that and you could be 80 and wear that.
So who's that for? Silver pound?
Is it for that? No, it's for, it's for all of
us. And so in terms of I, I, I don't
know because I don't shop in that way of what is available
because I just shop for myself. I don't really know how to.
I'm probably not the best person to answer that.
Do you feel that there is enough inspiration out there for women
that are are over a certain age? I don't.
Even know I don't I mean, I
think that you know, it's very much about the young and
beautiful, isn't it? And there's something incredibly
alluring and amazing about, you know, someone being young and
beautiful and the prime of their life.
And it's when people get, you know, lots of surgery done and
lots, you know, like, you know, we all can look after ourselves.
But, you know, youth is something that is just youth.
And so of course, the fashion world loves that itself because
it looks fabulous in itself. So no, I mean, compared to, you
know, 20 year olds, no, there isn't nearly as much.
There's not nearly as much imagery or representation for
older people. I, I think it's the the imagery
that's slightly lacking that could inspire and I think
that's, that's a shame. I feel like that's a missed.
Opportunity, right? No, I think you're right.
I think no, it's massive, you know, massively neglected.
You don't see it when you do, like, oh, there's someone who's
not, gosh, how? How?
OK, wow, that's different. I think particularly in the
fashion world, we can all be accused of judging people by how
they're looking, what they're wearing.
Is that something and sort of putting, putting them in a box,
is that something you're conscious of doing ever?
The thing is, no, I don't. I mean, listen, I love looking
at what people choose to wear and I'm interested in it, but
I'm and I might not like something often don't like
something someone's wearing, but I'm not.
I'm never judge mental, rarely judge mental because I've grown
so many people in my life aren't in fashion and they're not
really into clothes. You know, I've got two sisters
who they look great, but they're not interested in clothes.
What I mean, it's like it's really normal for me in my life
to be around people who second clothes are just not, it's not
their currency. And so I think there's a it
would be weird for me to be judged bankrupt because it's not
my judging system. I mean, when you're getting
dressed, if you're not 100% certain about something, who
would you ask for an opinion? I wouldn't ever be that
uncertain that I had to ask. Oh, I would ask Tom.
I would ask my daughter. I would never look for outside
help. That would be enough.
They'll tell me straight. Yeah.
And. When when you're putting a a
look together, do you ever start with one particular item in
mind? It might be a a new bag or a
vintage find. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I love my
skirt because I like the silhouette and it's habitual and
then and, and then yeah, and I like it when I think about
something and I think, oh, I'll wear that tomorrow and I put it
out and, and I, I do like that kind of when I'm like kind of
organized or I see a belt in my cupboard, I think, oh, I'll wear
that, you know. But I try and do that as more of
kind of being inspired in the moment rather than like in any
around any kind of anxiety because I feel quite confident
in closing again. It's going back to that thing
of, you know, I know I can put an outfit together that might
not be to the taste of the person I'm meeting, but it's me.
And so I'm going as myself, and that's all we can do.
Is your wardrobe phenomenally organised?
No, no, it's not. And I don't have a big people
come to my house and they're always a bit like embarrassed
because they're like, well, we thought we'd have a fabric and
I'm and I say to them, Oh God, I'm really sorry.
You thought it'd be fabulous, didn't you?
Oh, no, I'm sorry, because I've never.
I wish I had kept everything I hadn't.
I've had an insane things in my life, but I've always been.
I'm not a collector. So you're you'd say you're an
editor rather. Than yeah, I get, I move on and
I bring I'm not someone, I'm not a collector.
So yeah, I've got I have moved on.
I mean, there's stuff I'm in my sound around stuff I really
regret. There's lots of things I wish
I'd kept, but I didn't. And I gave a lot away over the
years to friends of mine. If I go and stay with someone in
New York and you know, they've got, they live in an amazing
place. Well, what can I take them?
The one thing I can take them is, is, is, you know, something
that I've found for them that they wouldn't have had the time
or stuff like that. But maybe I've taken it from my
wardrobe because it is really, you know, so I've, I've lost
stuff along the way through, like all that stuff.
Some of it really nice and like I've, I've wanted to hand it
over other times, you know, But no, I mean, I've got really good
stuff, but it's more stuff I wear now.
We're talking about beauty for a moment.
Yeah, I'd love to talk about beauty.
Because your great mate Charlotte Tilbury, but yes, does
she, does she get involved in your make up looks or any of
that? High maintenance.
Low maintenance. I, I'm really low maintenance,
but I, I love her products and I wear her products every day and
I know how to wear them. And she's very generous when it
comes to kind of, you know, what would be good and what I should
try And, and like, you know, writing on numbers, like you do
that one first and then #2 and then #3 and because I find it,
you know, I'm not like naturally kind of that, you know, I'm not
that I've never been such a huge make up person.
So I'm not that brilliant at putting on make up, but I, I
really do love her. I really love her products and I
wear them everyday and and so and hair hair hair blonde
fringe. Try and be a bit 70s with it.
We'll always keep it blonde. Never say never, but I don't
know. A good Packer, Bad Packer.
Over Packer Favorite luggage My Louis Vuitton for a weekend My
Louis Vuitton holdall. So you're still in a holdall,
not a wheelie. And I have a wheelie Louis
Vuitton wheelie as well. So yeah, I have my new, I do
love my vintage. I love my Louis Vuitton luggage
that I that Louis Vuitton gave me actually, so which I still
use all the time. And one has my initials.
And so, yeah, I use that and that makes me feel chic.
Are you very aware of your travel look?
I like to feel business like, but also like myself, you know,
I like to feel like I look good. You know, I put on a, you know,
I think about the bag and a good blazer and you know, like I'll
try and I like travelling with the look.
I don't really like travelling sloppy.
That's weird actually, because I like sloppy and lots of other
facets of my life, but not travel.
No, that that's interesting. When you say it, you talk about
a good blazer. One question I haven't asked you
and I meant to ask you is when you're not in vintage, other
particular designers that you've reached for?
Oh well, I my favorite jacket is by Marc Jacobs.
I've got a Gucci blazer, got Valentino bag.
So I've got Celine sweaters by Phoebe Filo that I've worn for
10 years. So I do have a lot of basics
that are designer in my wardrobe.
And by the way, I go back to them all the time.
So you know, that kind of slightly yawn, you know,
sentiment of invest pounds per wear.
It's true. You know, you invest in like
something really special. And I wear the same thing for,
you know, years and years and years the same.
I also am the I am the person that like I I wear things again
and again to the same parties with the same people with pride.
I like, I've never understood that thing of red carpet
dressing, everything having to be different, everything always
new, new, new, new. I don't know.
You know, for me, having signature pieces is a stronger
way to show up to stuff. That's how I feel.
And so, you know, for me, I never get that thing of I need
something new. I'm like, no, no, I've just, I
love that. And people are like that old
chestnut. Yeah.
And I like that. That's fabulous and and
wonderfully self assured. Love that.
I absolutely love that. OK, what's your guilty secret?
The most expensive item of clothing that you've bought.
I'm not asking for the price tag.
I spent quite a lot on a vintage Cape which I've lost in a New
York deal, a Christian Dior foot like vintage cake that was brown
and it had metallic and tassels. I wish I knew it was that.
I'll tell you what, probably. And I didn't have the money, but
I fell in love with it. And it was a Celine jacket from
the 1970s, brown with, like, fake leopard print on the front.
And I really loved it. And that was really expensive
and I shouldn't have got it, but I did.
So lots of things are probably a handbag as well.
I'm a bit of a sucker for a handbag.
Very rarely get them. But when I do, I don't either.
I do like a kind of cotton tote or like a great tourist bag, you
know, or I go quite high. Yeah.
Design a handbag. Do you ever sell those designer
handbags? I have done over the years,
yeah. Where do you sell if you're
going to sell? I think Vestia Collective is a
good place to sell. I sometimes sell.
I do this kind of friend of mine, I actually can't remember
what it's called. He has like a little online
selling thing. I never sell things.
Usually Vestia actually. But I mean, again, I don't buy.
I mean, it's rare, you know, it's once every few, it's once
every year or few years because I don't buy that much new stuff
and when I do I love it. So I'm not.
I don't. I very rarely buy something and
then feel like oh God that was a mistake.
And when you're donating something, where would you
donate it to do? You know what?
I'm pretty. You know I donates.
I mean, cancer charities and Oxfam and I mean, any mind.
Yeah, lots of different charities.
I think every charity, you know, needs the pound.
And so you know what, everyone's convenient and I like to
support, you know, I like to support.
I like Octavia, that's very near me.
And and yeah, Cancer Research, British Red Cross, all of them.
Oldest piece in your wardrobe? It may be vintage.
I think the oldest piece I have is something that my mom gave me
that I love that I actually used in one of those fake campaigns
that I told you about in the Prada, fake Prada, it's poached
ABBA and it's a, it's a card, a cashmere cardigan from Harrods
from the 60s. That was my mother's.
And it's really beautiful print. Floral kind of Lily of the
valley, white, green, purple leaves.
It's beautiful, beautiful print. And that I really treasure.
It's a bit trashed, but that's probably my oldest.
I would say probably early 60s. And do you still wear it?
So a little bit small for me. No, but I will.
It's not that I don't I just because it's, but I will.
I I love it. It's beautiful.
What's the piece that you're most emotionally attached to?
You know, I think that or for my 30th birthday, Anita Pallenberg
knitted me. Probably this knitted me a
sweater. It's brown.
And then across the front, it just says Bay in big white
letters with a Green Bay leaf. And so that's probably my most.
Yeah, I love that. I love it.
It's wild and amazing. And it's just like, what?
Yeah. Let's spin onto some quick fire
questions which What fashion advice would you give your 20
year old self? Stay with the fun.
What fashion trend or era would you most like to see make a
comeback? 1930s fashion or beauty trend
you'd consigned to room 101. Not mad about lip liner.
Your Last Impulse by Valentino bag views on tattoos.
I have one in the moment of being in love and being far from
home, no. Beauty treatment you couldn't
give up. My magically moisturizer
mascara. High end or High Street?
High end. Bling or bare?
Oh bling? Minimalism or maximalism?
Maximism Couture or charity shop.
Couture. Crocs cute or puke?
Oh, puke sneakers or stilettos. Sneakers.
Bags or shoes, Skinnies, boyfriends or wide legs?
Boyfriends. Body corn or burho?
Burho. Sports Lux or Rock chick?
Rock Chick. Trend or style?
*. Colour or monochrome?
Colour, experimental or uniform? Experimental.
Cashmere or cotton? Trilby or Tracy Trilby?
Hoarder or editor? Editor.
Charity shop or resale Charity shop?
Shapewear or sexy lingerie? Shapewear, I guess.
Tights, stockings or hold UPS. Tights.
Bikini or one piece? Finally, traditional last
question. At the end of the day, what do
you or don't you wear in bed? She's not #5 Thank you.
So much God, I could have talked.
All day. You're fabulous.