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Today I'm going on a style journey with the English model,
television personality and serving police constable the
glorious Penny Lancaster. Hello and welcome, Penny.
Hello Amanda, thank you so much for inviting me.
Oh, the beautiful place you have here.
Thank you, so lovely to have you here because you have just
published your book, Someone Like me, a proper no holds
barred memoir. Was writing it a really
cathartic process? Much more cathartic than I ever
imagined it was going to be. I knew there were going to be
hobbits. And in fact, when I got to a
certain point where it was very challenging emotionally, I
thought, I don't think I've got this in me.
What am I doing? Why am I digging so deep and
pulling back the layers and exposing myself and feeling
vulnerable and feeling pain? Why am I doing this?
But then as I just, I kept going, I just thought, you know
what? I'm, I'm healing from this
process and from my experience of being on Loose Women and
doing interviews in the past about certain times and places
in my life. I know how much it's resonated
with people and the positive feedback that I've got and
people saying thank you for talking about this.
Thank you for now. And now I feel I'm not so alone.
I, I just kept reminding myself of how much the, the book, my
journey, my lessons can help other people.
While it's healing me, it might be able to help others too.
And sort of someone like me, because I'm not the only person
that's gone through what I've gone through and, and others, of
course, gone through much more difficult times.
But at the end of the day, we, we, we're all partake, don't we?
And come across some very difficult, challenging times.
And it's how we get through them.
And I think by talking and sharing those experiences can
can be quite transforming What? Was the toughest part of writing
the book? What was the toughest?
Memory For me, it was during a period of time when my husband
had been diagnosed with prostate cancer and we wanted to keep it
private and it the initial stages we didn't tell family
either. So it was it was quite a burden
in a sense to hold on to that because I had to stay strong for
my husband and and deal with the doctors and and the the process.
And I also was hiding another, what I felt was a sort of a
shameful period of time, some and a particular subject that I
kept close to my heart. And when I was on Loose Women,
we were talking about the Me Too movement.
And there was a particular article about a young model who
had experienced a sexual assault and live on air.
I said me too. And they were like, oh, So what
happened with you, Penny? And I told the story of how at
17, I trusted a particular a man that was in the industry that
I'd worked with and being vulnerable at at 17, as I was in
that industry, he was telling me that he could introduce me to
lots of contacts and because I knew that was the important
thing and join him at an event he was going to that evening.
But before we went to that event, we went back to his place
because he said he had to pick up some things, and it was in
his apartment where he offered me a drink.
And then I didn't remember much else until I woke up on his bed
face down with him on top of me. So I revealed that only recently
on Loose Women, and I hadn't even told my parents.
So it was painful writing the book and going through all of
the details of that and the reason I went to so much effort
to put the details in there, because I know how many other
women have keep those events secret because of the shame and
the blame you put on yourself. And now as a police officer, I
know how important it is to speak out about any offence of
that nature in particular, no matter how insignificant you
might feel it is. Because when you build a picture
of a type of character, it's amazing how many people will
come forward about that same particular predator, and it can
build such a much stronger case to move forward for prosecution.
Did you find when you were writing about that incident, did
you start to remember even more about it?
Yes, because I think you have to add a bit of colour when you're
writing a book because it's just the written word.
I actually went and did the audio version of the book as
well, which I found very hard to read that section.
And it, you can tell in my voice as I'm reading it because it's
authentic, because it's, you know, you do, you end up almost
going back to that, to that place.
So I had to describe it, you know, for the purpose of the
book so that the reader could imagine what it was like.
Yeah. And that was really challenging,
but it has helped lessen the burden, lessen the fear and some
of the triggers that even in adulthood I I still kind of hold
onto so. You've done an audio version,
which correct me if I'm wrong, but you're dyslexic, yes?
How hard was that for you to read albeit your own words for
audio book? Well, when I was first asked
about that as part of the contract with my publishers,
Bloomsbury, who were absolutely amazing, I just kind of felt
sick to my stomach because it that was sort of my kind of one
of my worst memories of being at school was sort of being asked
in in English or any particular class to to stand up.
Penelope, can you read the next chapter?
And because of dyslexia and because the teachers didn't
understand why I had troubles in reading, they just, you were
either clever or you were dumb. There wasn't a there's another
way to learn. And intelligence doesn't come
from that. It comes from a different place.
It the, the, the heightened embarrassment and the
awkwardness. It just said, there's like fear
and horror through me. So when they said we would like
you to read and go your entire book for the audio version and I
was like, but you do know I'm dyslexic.
Yes, OK, that's that's fine. We you know, you can either read
it from your computer digitally, or you could read it from paper.
And my my physical book that came out along with the audio
audio at the end of September. I actually went to a lot of
length in in getting a font that's much more easy to read
for dyslexics. So for me, I need to have a
bigger space in between each word and but I need each letter
of the word to be relatively close together and the spaces
between each line to be bigger. So it helps if if you're you
know, if you're reading if your vision rather is fading slightly
because because it's. Well, I was about to say, you're
talking like this. This is me because she says
we're sort of font 14 on it. Yeah.
Interview. So it's so it's sort of good for
that, but but for dyslexic readers it's better.
And also looking at say for instance, comparing a letter H
to an NI could easily mix those up if the line of the H is not
long enough extended enough to sort of differentiate between
the two letters. So are there particular fonts
that are easier for a dyslexic? Are.
There. Which ones are those?
It's written in the back. We went through so many, but but
as as well as the actual font, it was, it might be like a
unique one because because I I talked about how close the
letters have to be. We're back and forth with I was
like, no, that's still not right.
And in fact, finally we got there.
And so did you find the recording process not as scary
as you? No, I was terrified.
I was terrified because I even thought I wouldn't get through
the first day and that they'd have to be realistic and find
someone that could read it for me.
But but got halfway through the first day and you thought I've
got. This, I mean, I was very, very
nervous and I found that I was taking extra breaths and you're
swallowing your breath as you're talking.
And I was like not burping, but having this like little repeated
thing going on. And the guy said, oh, that
that's just one of the things that we find with a lot of
readers because nobody will sit and read for that length of
time. And you end up having to take a
breath to continue, and instead you're swallowing air.
And especially when you're nervous and anxious, you do more
of that. And there wasn't one page that I
went through where I didn't make a mistake and had to go back to
the beginning of that sentence and start again.
It was just what it was. And I accepted it and everyone
was supportive around me. And instead of taking four days,
it took me 5 days. But it was worth doing it
because I I felt it was a true achievement.
It it probably even more so than than at the process of writing.
And I also think there's a something about hearing yourself
read out loud, something you've written is it's.
Quite cathartic it. It was kind of odd because when
they had to play certain bits back so that I I could start
recording again after my mistakes, you know, it's that
sort of phone voice that, you know, that I have to get
uncomfortable looking at myself, let alone hearing myself.
But I suppose you get get used to it after a while.
But while I was reading it and and in a flow, I felt like I was
telling someone else's story. And and that resonated again
because as the title Someone Like Me, it could have easily be
someone else's story, whether it was reading about someone else's
experience of bullying or dyslexia or being assorted going
through motherhood and giving birth and IVF and then, you
know, the blended family and being a step mum.
This book could actually be someone else's.
But it happens to be my story. God, how inspiring.
Hello, inspiring. And you're off on, you're
promoting and doing book festivals and all the rest of
it. Are you literally going from one
to the next at the moment? One to the next.
Because The thing is, my husband said, darling, you've got to do
everything. Because when he writes an album,
all that work and effort that goes into that, if you if you're
not going to promote it and put it out there and let everybody
know it's available, then what you know is sort of pointless
really. It's all part of the exercise.
So when I was invited to be a part of the literary festivals
one more recently in Henley and then soon to be going to
Cheltenham, that felt a bit daunting because I books was I
was sort of buy books and never get round to reading them.
But going to a festival about books just seemed like a real
inch me moment. And there's like 850 people in a
room to sit and listen to my story.
I'm going to be interviewed in front of a live audience.
I suppose I've had some experience with a, with a, with
that, but never on this sort of scale.
But it it's wonderful to know how many people you can connect
to and, and want to hear how you've experienced things
through life. And yeah, it's wonderful.
How magical. Well, good luck with it all.
Now today we're going on your personal style journey.
So let's start with can you describe what you've got on
today? I've got Veronica Beard jeans
and they I've got a lovely stretch and they're dark denim
and quite flared. I've got a pair of shoes that my
son bought me when we were in New York.
They are the most comfortable. I could I could climb a mountain
in these look, leather loafers. I mean, but this, I don't need
what this leather is, but it's just so soft.
So yeah, he bought those for me when we're in New York.
Oh, how cool. I know, how cool.
Do you shop with him? I do my 19 year old, he normally
wears my clothes. I love that.
And my husband's clothes. We it's a bit of mix and match.
Love that. A little dark denim leather
jacket, I'm not sure where that's from.
And then my little tartan grease coat, is that the Stuart tartan?
It's not a Stuart tartan, but it, you know, it has a little
dash of the blue to and I'd sort of, I like to layer things up
and it's sort of simple but effective.
But chic And will you change when you get to the festival?
I have I have a an outfit for tomorrow as well.
How do? You decide what you're wearing
for those those appearances. Well, I, I often kind of check
the weather out. Is it going to be indoors or
outdoors? Do I have to walk anywhere?
So I've actually got a change of of shoes because I would like to
wear a heel with this. What's the outfit?
I got it the other day in liberties.
I love liberties, but it's it's a, it's a beautiful pant.
It kind of from a distance it looks slightly polka dot, but
it's the maroon colour and then and then but it shifts with the
light. So there's sort of a green tint
to it. When it's sort of shot.
Yeah, well, you would Novel, yeah.
Yeah. So that means that that the
weave is 1. Colour one way and another
colour the other way. And so it sort of catches the
light and you see different colours.
So predominantly it look, it looks like burgundy with this
little dot. And then there's that shift of
colour with with the change of of light direction.
And so the opposite colour is this silk shirt that goes with
it. Yes.
Nice. Now you grew up in Essex.
In Essex, Yeah. Any Essex girl connotations
there? Oh, of course, of course, they
all, they all came, came in. In fact, you kind of most Essex
people laugh and go, go on. Then just lay it on me because
we're so proud to come from Essex.
Well, it's. Such a beautiful county, isn't
it? Let's.
Just get that in there and sort of the earth, down to earth
people, true to their word. So, so earliest fashion memory
when you just remember putting something on and thinking, yeah,
I'm Penny. Well, it took a long time
because when I was at school, one of the reasons I was picked
on was being tall and skinny, which was seen as like you're
different, you stand out and people didn't like that.
Were you in a school uniform? I was in school uniform.
I was a brown uniform, which is which is odd because that's my
safe colour. I always go to brown and earthy
colours and I even didn't realise it at the time, but on
my publication day I pretty much wore my school uniform.
Not literally, but it was a brown skirt and a brown blazer
from Max Mara. And when I'm.
Looking, I'm thinking that's my uniform.
There's the picture in the in the in the book here.
And I it's because of like, I was, you know, assorted sexually
assaulted on the way to school at the age of 12.
And I was wearing my school uniform.
That was, that was the brown. I mean it was a beige shirt and
a brown like. But maybe that was you putting
that whole thing to bed, or owning it and owning it, yes.
Exactly. It's a weird psychological
thing, isn't it? But I I was, yeah.
So I was extremely tall at school, taller than all the
girls and the boys. So it kind of an odd book.
Did you feel? Awkward felt very awkward.
I used to wear 3 layers of tights to make my legs appear
bigger. Beautiful shapely skinny legs.
Hated them. Oh no and stuffed de bra.
You know, I was probably the the second from last to get my
period, so I never felt comfortable at all.
And then when I left school, when I started modelling, I was
told I wasn't skinny enough. Oh, talk to me about that for a
second. So it was, it was torture.
So I, you know, I'm, I'm too skinny.
Then I wasn't skinny enough. And then I always felt
self-conscious. I was told I was, you know, even
when I was married up on a set with a guy, sometimes I'd have
to put him, stand him on a book or two to so that because what,
you know, 6 foot one. Well, I was when I left school,
sort of 511. I kept growing even, you know,
into my 20s. Even into your. 20s yeah.
So I was 511 when I first started modelling at 17 and then
I'm 61 now. So I just kept going.
So if I wore a heel, which predominantly would be, you
know, put into a pair of huge heels, I would learn out of 10
and be taller than the male model.
So I was never, I was made to feel awkward and not like I
could fit in anywhere. But then I finally I found my
niche and I did lots of sportswear, fitness wear,
swimwear, lingerie and I was like ah finally.
And did you, did you sort of bow to the pressure of lose weight?
Lose weight. Yes, I did for a period of time.
In a healthy way. No, just like just trying not to
eat very much at all account like, you know, if I had a
salad, I wouldn't put a dressing on it and and that kind of
thing. And then before a photo shoot.
My brother was very much into weight training and he said, you
know what weight trainers do to to emphasize their muscles and,
and their vascularity and all of that, They would take salt
tablets before a show. So if you take salt tablets
before a shoot, it will take all the fluid off the surface of the
skin so you'll appear even skinnier.
So I went to those lengths until I was like passing out good low
blood pressure. But you wouldn't have been
alone. No, no, no.
But I felt like I was. I thought, well, everyone else
seems to be successful and I'm working and happy, but I put on
that front. And did you, so you didn't
discuss it with any any sort of fellow models?
No, because I thought I'd be found out and I'd be a fraud
because I just wanted people to believe this was, this was who I
was, because this is what they wanted.
And if, if it, if they saw that it was a struggle for me to
achieve that, then it didn't come naturally.
Therefore we couldn't rely on on Penny because it's not, you
know. So that was always, always
hiding it. And what was your casting look?
What would you wear for running around London on your go seats?
What was your sort of uniform back then?
It it probably would have been it's black, you know, it was
like the go. To body con.
Yes, yeah, it would. It would be black tights, black
shoes, black boots, short skirt, skinny top, you know, and then
with a big coat over the top just to.
You know, for safety, really feel safe.
Yeah. Cocoon.
Yeah, Cocoon. But then I'd be able to strip
off and go. Oh, OK.
Yeah. And during your time modelling,
was there a particular designer or stylist that sort of
influenced your? Personal style, I never felt I
ever had a personal style because I was never comfortable
in my own skin and being 6 foot one and very broad shoulders
from swimming and narrow hips, I didn't sort of fit anyone
particular designer. And and even now I, I find it
tricky. You know, my, you know, the, the
length of my arms and the, the length of my legs and I'm very
long in the body as well. And so I was constantly
critiquing myself. So I never felt like I could
dress myself. I let I left that up to the
professionals. Was it, was it almost a relief
to arrive on set and be dressed? Yes, yeah.
But then I and then at the same time I would often be thinking,
what if nothing's going to fit me just.
Constantly panicking. So we spin forward to you are
out one night with some girlfriends and you meet your
future husband. Tell me about that.
What were you wearing that? Night it was a Christmas party
and it was the Christmas season and and there was an event that
my friend invited me to and we went for dinner 1st and then we
ended up in a nightclub at the Dorchester Hotel in London on
Park Lane. It's now a Chinese restaurant.
And I was I was dancing with my girlfriends.
And then one of my friends was like, oh, my God, look who's
over there. I'd be like, all right, what,
what, what? She said, Oh, Penny.
And they turned to me. I was always the one that pushed
at the front, the daredevil, you know, I think it was my height.
You know, I'd end up going and getting the drinks at the bar
or, you know, if we were underage, you know, or going to
get cinema tickets if we weren't old enough.
It was always. So it was that.
Penny, go and get me an autograph.
I'm like, who's autograph? She's like Rod Stewart's over in
the corner and I'm like Rod Stewart and all I could think
was the leopard print trousers. And do you think I'm sexy?
And I'm thinking, oh gosh, what's that?
You know, what am I letting myself in for here?
And she said, you've got to get an autograph for my daughter.
And I was like, OK, I'll go and do that.
So I've I've sorted over and I was in a short black number.
I can't remember who it was, but it I know it was short and it
was tight and you know, I know now that rod is a leg man.
So the legs were the pins were out the pins.
Were out. That's a good thing, isn't it?
And I thought that that surely with the pins and a big smile
and being very gracious and polite and all of that, and how
could he say no? And I did.
But I didn't know what kind of character this guy was going to
be. But sure, was he surrounded by
he had his band with him, right? Because he was on tour at the
time and had a few more shows to go.
And so I went over and everyone was like nudge, nudge, nudge.
And I'm sure he got so many girls coming over and saying hi
and I apologise for interrupting and would you mind signing an
autograph for my girlfriend? And he said, of course, come and
sit down. And he said, So what?
What is it that you do? And I said, well, I'm studying
photography. And he's so interesting.
He said. Would you like the opportunity
to come to my show tomorrow and take some pictures?
That's such a good chat up line, isn't?
It and I thought crafty. I thought like that one.
So he'll give your number to my bass player, Carmine, and he'll
be in contact with you and give you the details.
And I said fabulous. And I go, here's the signature.
You know, he's signed a napkin or a bar mat.
I can't remember what I had now. And utterly charming and wrote
twinkle in his eye. And then he said to me, are you
good at dancing? And I was like, or I like
dancing. He went, I'm going to come and
watch. I was like, Oh my gosh.
So followed me. He went off to the bar and I
joined my girlfriend's back on the dance floor.
Who were like, did you get the autograph?
I'm like, yeah, here's the autograph.
But he'd look, he's over there and he's like, he's going to
watch us dance. And then in the next minute he
was calling me over to the bar and I went over and my friends
were like, go on, go on. And so I sat there and he, he
bought me a drink and he said, I have to just tell you that going
through a bit of a tricky patch. It will be in the newspapers
tomorrow. So don't be alarmed.
But the news will come out that my wife and I have separated.
And I saw, I'm so sorry to hear that.
I I didn't even know his circumstances, whether he was
married or not. And didn't have a poster of him
in your room. No, and it wasn't my parents
kind of go to either. So I wasn't that familiar with
him. And on that now with social
media and other platforms like you've only got the news or
music from very small area of like a source of information.
And but everyone knew Rod Stewart, the leopard print and
you know, the iconic image, but the man himself was very
different to that to that image. And and the next day I called
Carmine, the bass player and he gave me the details to go see
the concert. Amazing concert.
Took the photographs, went back to college the next day and
processed those images. And but hang on a tick.
What did you wear to the concert?
To the concert. I, I wore black again and I
wore, I covered everything up because I wanted this to be like
a professional thing and not a well, he'd obviously told me
that he'd gone going through this tough time.
So I thought to keep it professional.
I'm here to take photographs. I might get to meet him again,
but I, I just wanted to, to give a good impression and, and then
we didn't actually get to see each other after the show.
He he did a quick runner afterwards because of all the
medium, because it was going through a hard time.
Nine months later he calls and leaves a message.
So back in town can we meet? So talk about what I was going
to wear. So did you look at your phone
and go? Well, it wasn't a phone to look
at then. It was a it was a message on my
answer phone at home, at home on the landline.
Yeah. And I kept playing it back and
playing it back and thinking, is it him?
Because his talking voice is very different to his singing
voice and quite sort of cockney in a way.
And I was like, someone's playing a joke.
But no, it was him. And we ended up going out for
dinner with another couple. So there was four of us
together. And once again, he said come for
dinner. I'd like to see the photographs
you took, I thought. So what did you wear for that
dinner? I wore brown pleather.
Safe zone. Yeah, safe zone.
Pleather trousers in brown. And I wore a brown roll neck, a
jacket, you know, like I buttoned up.
There was not one bit of flesh other than my hands, you know,
that he could kind of get any impression of anything.
And he remembers that very distinctly because he's thinking
like, what was she afraid of? What she, you know, completely
covered up head to toe. But yeah, I just sort of wanted
him to sort of know that there was more to uncover with this
one. You know, I wasn't going to let
it all out on on the first date, but I was engaged to somebody at
the time. So had you had to sneak out of?
No, I didn't sneak. I told the person I was with.
Who were you living together? We were living together and we'd
already going through a rocky patch and we'd already split up
for a couple of months and we'd got back together to try to make
it work the second time round. And it was still on rocky
grounds, but in a relationship where we could be honest with
each other. And I said, as you, as I said to
him, remember I met this Rod Stewart.
Well, he's now got back to me and said he'd like to see the
photographs. And he was like, go on, off you
go. Very blase confident that I
would never leave him. But this is Rod Stewart who's
asking you out for a dinner date to look at your photographs.
But he didn't seem to care. And after that dinner date, Rod
then went on and asked if I wanted to join him in Spain to
take some photographs for him. And this was one step up.
And my fiance at the time? Similar reaction.
Sure, off you go. And I actually packed my bags
with tears down my cheeks because I knew that relationship
was over as much as I I knew it myself.
Now I now I realise he wanted it as well.
Because why would you let let you go that.
Yeah. And what did you put?
In the bag. On in the bag.
Well, I, I, well, we were going to Spain, so it was hot.
And I, I went once again with like cardigans and long skirts
and, you know, and that. Meanie sexy lingerie.
No pyjamas, Penny, I packed pyjamas.
And not sexy underwear like the fleshy type that you wear when
you go on modelling that. Yeah, nothing like that at all.
Because I was like, I'm here to take photographs.
OK, I've got to hear the next bit of this story.
So that was that that then while I was still at college, Rod
invited me to go to the Bahamas. And this was now I've finished
with my ex because Rod has said to me, look, what are you doing?
Don't think about leaving this guy for me.
Just think about leaving him for you.
It's not a healthy relationship like you.
Good advice. Yeah.
So that that that relationship ended very shortly after that
trip to Spain with Rod. Then then comes like the single
penny moved back with parents invited out to the Bahamas.
I'm at photography college, at Barking College.
I don't know where my future's going to take me.
I turn up to the Bahamas. I don't have much money to buy
new clothes. I needn't have worried.
I arrived at this house that his friend had rented and she showed
me into this bedroom, opened up the wardrobes, and it was full
of clothes for me and shoes. And I'm like, what?
How and I didn't, I didn't, someone might be thinking, isn't
that a bit controlling? Isn't that a bit, you know, But
actually he, I think he knew where I was at and he knew the
struggles I'd gone through because we'd had lots of
conversations over the phone in, in that time leading up to this
trip. And he wanted a moment for me
to, to kind of shed all of those insecurities.
And there were lots of short skirts and skimpy things and I,
yeah, I had a good figure. And he just like, why are you
covering yourself up? What a gorgeous, thoughtful,
generous gift. And he and he he said because
the trip to Spain we did 1 funny fancy dress night where the guys
dressed as girls and girls dressed as guys.
And so had all the guys come into my room borrowing my
dresses and my shoes because I'm, I'm, well, I was a 7 then.
I'm more like an 8 now and one size smaller than my husband.
So they were all squeezing into that, the open toed, slingbacky
type shoes, just managing that. So Rod knew if he went to a
shop, if he tried a shoe on and it was a size too tight, it
would be just perfect for me. I love it.
I love. My whole what?
Was your favorite piece that he had chosen for you from?
That I think it was a Robert Cavalli I knew.
You were going to say. Animal print, animal print.
And I still love animal print. And I remember the first time he
took me shopping in London and we were down Bond Street and we
went into Dolce and I was in the dressing room and he just kept
passing stuff in. I know.
And I'd come out. And so that I went, yes, take
that off, give that to the lake. You know, it was just like this
pile of, of clothes. And I and I still have these two
leather outfits. It was a black leather short,
very short, almost large belt of a skirt with these silver chains
hanging off it with a matching leather coat.
Then there was a similar outfit in in in green, a dark green
leather almost snake looking skirt with a matching leather
jacket. Those two alike have still have
those outfits, you know, just as a memory.
So does do you love? Going shopping together, I don't
love so much going because I've, because I've, you know, after
two children go through menopause and what have you,
I've put, I've put on a lot more weight and stubborn belly fat.
And so Rod will still look at me like, like he looked at me then,
which is lovely. And he'll go, darling, this is
lovely. This is lovely.
I'm like a sweetie. I'm look, I'm not that person.
I, I can't wear that tight outfit because of my belly and I
can't wear that because of, you know, my boobs or whatever.
And he's like, oh, OK, so I don't enjoy the shopping trips
like I used to because I've gone back to sort of being a bit more
self-conscious about what will fit and what won't, won't.
I don't care if I have to wear a size 14 or a 16.
The number doesn't doesn't bother me.
It's just proportion wise, you know, am I going to be able to
fit in it? You know, because some, because
I'm that that ectomorph. I'm more of a sporty shape.
It's not as easy to to find things.
So I don't enjoy shopping as much as I used to.
I like to order stuff in and try it on privately.
And is that your your trick, your secret to to buy online?
Yeah, buy, buy online, have it all delivered and Rod's like
what the hell, what the these boxes doing?
Don't worry darling, it's all most of it's coming back.
Do you ever work with a stylist? No, no, because I I just always
feel that nobody would ever get my get my size, get my, my, my
style, I suppose, But then that would be the perfect reason why
to get a stylist because then they would then they'd be able
to shop for you. They know exactly or that's not
going to work for Penny, but that will you know, because I I
don't particularly like exposing my arms with a wide shoulder
strap. I have to go like spaghetti or a
halter neck or something like that, which is better for my
shoulders. And then I'm long in the bodies,
you know, because when you go on a stylist, I know they'd be able
to pick that out because when you go on a photo shoot you I
tried to explain my body type and nine out I now take a
wardrobe of clothes with me because there might be a few
pieces at work. But then I need to marry that up
with something that I've got that I know works and mix and
match it and. Particularly when you're being
photographed as Penny the author, you know, it's not like
you're Penny the model. Yes, I want to look like me.
Totally. I mean, are you are on Loose
Women and are there sort of strict wardrobe guidelines there
or can you just wear whatever you want?
You could pretty much wear whatever you like, but there's
the telly guideline of the no logos and no stripes because of
the plaids and all that because it strobes on on TV.
But other than that, they pretty much like allow you to wear what
you like. Well, that's nice.
Yeah. And there is there is a stylist
there that sort of got used to me and my body type and what I
like and don't like. So that's always helpful because
you can't always come up with a million different outfits and.
You did strictly. Yeah.
How was that putting on all of those costumes?
Absolutely incredible daunting to begin with because I'd had my
first child and I'd put on weight with the first child and
I felt like I've always had to make excuses for me for my
weight when I was modelling, even when my figure was at its
best. If I were to turn up and say,
oh, I've, I've got my period. So sorry.
My, my tummy might be a little bit bloated.
I mean, my tummy was concaved most of the time, but I still
had to feel like I had to make excuses and apologise because I
never felt I was perfect enough. And now I realise there isn't
any such thing as perfect and. Who gives it down?
But you know, then it it concerned me.
So after my first child going on strictly, I knew there was
people of all different shapes and sizes.
So it wasn't like we were all models going into this.
So I would but I'd still have to say to the to the to the lady,
to the fitter. You know, I, well, I've put a
bit of weight on here and I've put because you have to send
your size guidelines and there's no point in fibbing about.
It because the tape is the tape, yeah.
And she said, well, what's fantastic about this verse
fitting is in a few weeks time, you you will have shrunk because
of the hard work that you have to put in with the with the
dance rehearsals every day and the nerves of being on the show,
you will be dropping sizes. I said and I did my last
performance, I was on there for five weeks and my last
performance they actually did a cutaway on the dress to show my
ABS. I've got ABS back.
And are you at peace with your body now?
Not really, not really. I think my my worst time was
going through lockdown when we all sort of fed ourselves and
gorged on whatever and because who cares?
But then I kind of went, whoa, what what's gone on here?
And, and the menopause hit me at the same time.
So I was like in a bit of a spiral and, and, and, and
serious depression came over me and I kind of lost it a few
times and was put on antidepressants and before I
realised it was menopause and got on HRT.
So during that time was probably my kind of where I was freaked
out the most. And I went on the very first
time on an actual diet where you were having those shakes to
supplement real food. But I thought for me, it was all
or nothing. And I wasn't going to be able to
just cut down my size portions and all this kind of thing.
I thought, no, I've got to just kill it and, and, and, and do
what I've never said I'll do and go on an actual diet.
It worked, but how realistic was that to be able to keep that
going? So then I put the weight back
on. I think what really shifted my
weight was my second child going through IVF three times where
you're pumping yourself with hormones all the time.
And I think that really kind of messed my system up.
But of course, more than grateful to have gone through
anything to have a second child. But I, yeah, to shift the weight
on that after that second pregnancy was almost impossible.
And I just, I accepted it. I thought, that's fine.
I've gone through two pregnancies.
I've had my second beautiful child.
I don't. I don't mind if I'm a bigger
penny and then go through menopause added to that weight
and now even though I'm careful with what I eat and I exercise
regularly, I can't shift it. And are you particularly aware
of being in the public eye? And how cruel the the press can
be. I think they've become less
cruel. I remember, yeah, they've had
to. I think after my first child,
I've I felt pretty torn apart because I was doing a charity
event. It was a netball game and it was
a four page in the newspaper, not so hot legs and there was
Cellulite. Even on a skinny leg there was
Cellulite. And I just thought that is
vicious. I've just, I've just had a baby.
I'm doing a charitable event and that's their headline.
And I, I hope that these these days they wouldn't be how to
ridicule a woman like that anymore.
So I think it's, it's nowadays it's a lot more acceptable.
But you know, then again, you've got social media and there's a
much more freer Ave. of speech on there that's that's not
regulated and you get members of the public.
You know, I remember during lockdown I was doing another
charity thing with Rod and someone commented like, and I
still remember it today saying you've got enough money.
Why don't you get a personal trainer and a nutritionist?
Why, why, why you shouldn't look overweight?
I'm thinking what, why are you focusing on a few extra pounds
during lockdown when I'm trying to do a good thing and raise
awareness for this charity? And that's all you can see.
And it just just shows you where some people's minds are AT.
And and for me it's still like a trigger and I so I still that
that stuff still colour hits home.
So what silhouettes are you most comfortable in?
What? What makes you feel the best
version of you? Well, nothing tight.
I used to always wear tight and I'd go, Oh no, it's too tight.
No, that's not going to. So I go I I quite love the style
of of women in in power suits or wearing trousers that have got
like pleats. So it disguises a little belly
fat and that kind of oversized the baggy.
It's not really my husband's favorite turn out so I and I and
I and I do appreciate that he loves me to look more feminine
and he still thinks I'm sexy. Great.
That's all that matters. So he's like, you know, don't be
afraid of being sexy and bigger, you know, I still love you.
So that that's always nice to hear.
So I still get my legs. I still get the legs out.
Good girl. And the cleavage.
You know, but it doesn't all have to be out at the same time,
does it? No, and, and, and I do wear sexy
underwear to make myself feel good, you know, from the inside
out. Love that, love that.
Do you have a style icon? I was feeling very Diane Keaton
with the high neck today. I don't often wear high necks
because I think a lower neckline gives you that colour longer
look and I always feel a bit claustrophobic.
But this is a loose one. But when I put it on, I, I, you
know, with her passing more recently, I mean, she had some
style about her. What style?
Gosh, it was almost like she found her style, you know, her
style DNA early and stuck to it and evolved it but never really
changed it. And I think that's the
definition of true style, actually.
Well, like my husband. I mean, his style is iconic.
Totally. Do you share his passion for
leopard print? Or animal print.
I love animal print actually, because it's all that tonal,
those soft tonal brownie colours.
And if you're going to go for a pattern, but he will mix a
tartan with an animal print with some lace with some, you know,
like he mixes it all up when he because he's colour blind.
Is he? Yeah.
That's why he he wears all those clashes of colours.
But when he says to be done and does this go with that?
And I'm like, well, it does on you because.
And he has never been afraid to wear a bit of chiffon or or silk
or he he's quite androgynous and feminine in his style as well.
Very early days to this sort of androgynous metrosexual
dressing, wasn't he? Not afraid of, of his sexuality.
It's very masculine, you know, sex appeal and all of that.
But not afraid to, to kind of camp it up, I suppose, and, and
be flamboyant and just be expressive.
My eldest son is, is definitely going down that, that route.
He played safe for so long, probably up until he was about
16 or 17. In the last few years he's
thrown the rule book out, you know, what a man supposed to
look like or where or what have you.
And say he wears my stuff and Rod's stuff.
He mixes up the colours and the prints and he's painting his
nails and his, you know, it's, he's not afraid.
So do both sons sty Nick from your wardrobe or?
Just the 19 year old, he's 6 foot five are gorgeous and he's
grown his hair very long and his larger than life character is
always smiling. And when he walks in a room, you
know, he's stepped in a room. I mean, we were at Glastonbury
and I was looking around for him because, you know, everyone gets
lost, don't they? Well, you, it's very hard to
lose me and him in a crowd because of our heights.
But he has this energy and presence and flamboyance about
him. So he he comes, I see it from a
distance, heading towards me with these wide strides and this
coat flapping that I recognise immediately.
It's. Yours.
It's mine. Wonderful.
Had he told you he was borrowing?
No McCartney. Stella McCartney at Glastonbury.
So when we were backstage with Dad, I managed to retrieve that
coat before it got ruined. But yeah, I mean, there was a
full length leopard print McCartney flapping in the wind
and he had like this hat on and his wide flared jeans looking
amazing. I was going to say, but secretly
there was a proud mum. Oh my God.
There he is. Fabulous.
Oh, I love that. So he's not afraid.
Whereas my 14 year old is a typical 14 year old.
They all want to look the same. It's like a uniform.
Do you ever look at the 19 year old and see him styled up and
think, God that coat actually looks better on you than it ever
did on the I know. Well, the the Dres Van Norton.
Dres. Van Note.
Yes, that one. Thank you.
Trousers that I, I got the other day from liberties.
I put them on and all I could think was Oh well, Alice is
going to have these. He'll go, oh that's nice mum.
And yeah, that would be disappearing anytime soon.
In fact, Rod often says half my wardrobes in my son's wardrobe
now, so I'll go looking for things.
We just go looking in Alistair's closet because there they are.
Now, if you were to ask Rod to sum up your style DNA in three
words, what do you think those 3 words would be?
Sexy hot legs. That I loved that.
Oh my God, who's? That knocking on my door.
Rod had a musical on stage in London and the gala opening
night was money to raise for the RNIB and Rod had this wonderful
idea that Penny Lancaster, my girlfriend will perform on that
night. But I had to audition in front
of Ben Elton and and Phil McIntyre.
But I got the the part and I came on stage performing hot
legs, dancing and singing hot legs.
Great. What would you wear?
What were you wearing for that? It was a very, very, extremely
short number. Yeah, it had these red rose
prints on it and then a black little ruffle thing with just a
like, almost like Dolce bra strap thing going on.
He had picked it down. Yes, it was stretchy and tight
and short, stretchy and sexy, stretchy and sexy.
It was a sexy hot leg outfit. Would you say you've had a worst
fashion moment? Oh my gosh, I've had lots of bad
fashion moments. Any particular ones that sort of
stick in your brain and think oh God why did I do it?
Not one in particular that they are just they are lot lots of
violence. Now you've talked about you
struggled with your weight during menopause and post IVF.
What's your approach now to sort of fitness and exercise?
Well, now in my 50s, we all know that we get to a stage where our
bones can become more brittle because of osteoporosis.
And I think that's exacerbated by having children because your
baby inside will always be OK because it will take from you.
Sucks it up. Yeah.
And also we get a depletion of muscle.
So we're almost for fighting against the tide.
Women are always afraid of weight bearing exercises because
they think they're going to bowlk up.
They're not going to bowlk up. So weight bearing exercise is it
is it is the definite you know, you, you have to do that to, to
lay down calcium in your bones and to combat the the loss of
muscle as you get older. So I do three times a week
weight bearing. Exercises.
Good for you, Good for you. Let's spin on to your approach
to sustainable fashion. So I'm a bit of a hoarder.
So I do hold on to sort of what I see is that for me, iconic
outfits that I wore on a special occasion.
So I kind of store those up in in a memory bag.
But what I do every so often do with my friends is I have a
penny row. And so my friends will come
round and, and we'll have this kind of like coffee cake colour
of afternoon. And everyone goes through my
rows of stuff that I'm, I know I'm never going to wear again.
And they each, you know, put money in a pot for it or, or I
give it away to charity for to the British Heart Foundation.
You could box anything up and they'll come and take it for
you. And you know, it's going to go
to a, a better home, you know, be and be loved again.
Yeah. So.
And any of Rod's stuff goes that way, or all of his stuff is
archived. Some of Rod's stuff goes to
charity, he signs it, whether it's suits or shoes, because
that does raise a lot of money for charity.
But my, my, my boy Alistair has found some of his 80s suits that
he wears now. In fact, I wore one of Rod's 80s
suits on Lorraine the other day. I bet it was great.
It it, it was Jean Paul Gautier. Fantastic, beautiful, very quite
thin, transparent like a crepe almost in a in a dark maroon
with this very very fine pinstripe cream pinstripe.
Amazing fitted, fits me and my son like beautifully because in
the 80s they used to puddle with with material on the floor and
now they they fit for us taller people perfectly.
Let's spin on to some quick fire questions.
What fashion advice would you give your 20 year old self?
Don't follow the crowd fashion trend you would most like to see
make a comeback. I I love a big shoulder pad.
They come in and out don't they? And and leopard print that never
goes out of star. Never goes out fashionable
beauty trend you would consign to room 101.
Those crazy eyebrows. You'd be amazed how many people
say that. Your last impulse buy?
Not that impulsive. I really do think about, yeah.
Then your views on tattoos. She's stripping.
This one I got a couple of years ago.
Very, very fine line. And two swallows, sort of
representative of my two sons that will fly the nest but will
always come back and they're forever brothers.
Oh beautiful, love that grooming or well-being treatment.
You couldn't give up. I, I, I love to indulge in, in
a, in a, in a bath with some really creamy bubble bath or
sorts, burning a candle and and occasionally indulging in a
glass of wine in said bath in said bath.
And are you bathing alone? Bathing alone.
Yeah, yeah. High maintenance, low
maintenance, low high end or High Street?
Nixon match Crocs, cute or puke? Oh, no sports Lux or
rock'n'roll. Rock'n'roll.
Cashmere or cotton? Cashmere.
Trend or style? Style, colour or monochrome?
Monochrome pattern or plain? Plain.
Order or editor? Oh my God, Holder.
Oh. Jesus charity shop or resale,
resale shapewear or lingerie, lingerie tights, stockings or
hold UPS, Hold UPS, bikini or one piece bikini.
And finally, traditional last question at the end of the day,
what do you or don't you wear in bed?
I normally sleep with my moisturizer on.
Penny, thank you so much. What a lovely.
Conversation really, really nice.
Really enjoyed that, thank you for coming.