Good morning and welcome to this meeting of lonelyhearts
neglected social media podcast posts.
Good morning. So thank you all just like thank
you, singular Soul, social media, post for turning up.
She wrote me this morning. Oh, a fresh one, but the egg
came out yesterday? Yes, yeah, and it's, it's just
you. He for the whole podcast.
Yep. All that effort.
And she does one single late Twitter post?
Yeah. Oops.
I would lonely. Okay, well, I suppose, Cause
it's something so singular Twitter, post for in daf, how
have you been getting on this week for the last release.
My podcast leader of all that is Led just put one link out with
some Audio Drama. And audio fiction has tags on a
day after release, and then nothing.
Not even a retweet and a hashtag Audio Drama Sunday post a
Facebook, Audio Drama Hub Friday promo thread, no tumbleweeds,
but they followed up that tweet and tagged in the talent for the
show, right? I think they forgot or couldn't
find a handle how dear that's lazy, isn't it?
Yes folks, let's remember, publicity 101, item, 45 States,
say it with me, Thou shalt ask the town for their handles and
keep a record of that. So they may be celebrated and
lauded for their time and talent in all social media platforms.
Good. So we seem very thin on the
ground, this week, where's tumblr post?
So she hasn't used that one more than once for a wee.
While Facebook. Surely she did a Facebook post
this week, Just poetry. Oh gosh not the Poetry.
What if we said about not putting people off reading your
post. So I really liked and it seems
she did put something in, read it, but put it in the wrong
place. And now he's banned from posting
ever again and then the Discord grupos got swallowed up by other
subsequent. She'll Post in a generic poured
for audio fiction publicity so I'll know I'm really ready to
even acknowledge it so it's all a beaten tumbleweeds.
Yeah. So what can she do?
I mean I just got a call from inconsistency this morning and
she's definitely on that. Sure.
This is truly a dire situation. I mean, well, done for doing
your job, but I'm afraid, you're just not enough, but you did
your job. Oh, dude.
Look at all three likes and retweets from at twiglets or
great to me, the legend. Yes.
Okay. Well, the situation requires the
big gloves. Oh my gosh, it's the big gloves.
This creative. Sure needs some extra help.
I know just where to start you making she isn't beyond help.
Not yet. We can get her help wound in daf
right here right now. Yes.
I mean youyou deliciously. Talented Soul, you.
Welcome to another gym filled Crystal Cave of an episode of
Hindi. I am with me.
Sarah Goulding. Hello.
And my inspiring insightful yesterday has such tonight to
share a groovy podcast. A guru of social media, and
publicizing your show squad cars head of community and content.
A party leader in terms of bringing invaluable podcast
driven communities together, And setting up groups of networking
and social round super amazing. Human, let's put our Collective
earbuds together, and welcome the amazing wondrous, brilliant
of aerial. Sounds like this and that Nissim
black. Hello.
Wow, that was awesome. You're awesome.
I'm so very excited that you can actually join us today because
you're involved in so much positivity.
I wanted to spend a little bit through in daf-2, so I know
you're suffering a little bit from a cold right now.
So Buddy. Who's anybody?
Just send healing Vibes through whatever device you're listening
to us? I have I have a tissue stuck up
one of my nostrils right now, but you can't see that.
Uh, I think in solidarity, if there's a tissue near you, stick
it up, your left nostril and we can carry on.
But yeah, I just so enamored with all the crazy and beautiful
things you're doing for the podcasting industry and on top
of that currently you've just started something groovy called
the trailer park. And I think that's a wonderful
groovy place to kind of share and think about what would be a
good trailer for for their own show.
And what do you think would make a good outstanding trailer and
what ingredients to folks need in?
There's to make it stand out. Just what I am finding by way of
listening to so many trailers. As we go into production, on
this show is that different types of podcasts require
different types of trailers? And there isn't one right way to
do a trailer. I was having a conversation with
somebody who said, you know, me and my creative partner.
We differ greatly when it comes to how to make a trailer and I
said, why don't you make both? You know, why don't you make one
that's sort of in universe, that really if it's an audio drama it
you know maybe you have voices from the the actors playing
their characters. But then you could also do
another trailer that is voices from the actors not playing
their characters. I think you can do both and
trailers can be anywhere from fifteen seconds to, I don't
know. I would stick Less than three
minutes. But I think it's all about
giving a taste of what your listeners should expect when
they hit play on episode 1. Yes.
And then why do you think there's a need for this?
Why have you started this to Fearless?
It's a good thing on the podcasting.
Lance I started the trailer park podcast because I realized that
I love trailers, I think it was May of last year that I wanted
to sort of figure out what the commonalities were between the
podcast that are featured in apple.
New and noteworthy section, and the quickest way to do that was
to listen to the trailer, for the shows that were featured.
I wanted to hear if they're, you know, why these were being
selected, are they all of beautiful quality?
Are they, are they all, you know, they all have something
special and unique to them. And, of course, I didn't want to
listen to eight episodes of each one or however many episodes
they had out there. So I was like, you know what,
let me test this out by listening to the trailers if
they have one available and that sort of spark my interest.
Because I realized that while some of the Trailers are great
and they are reflective of what's to come in the episodes
afterwards. Some are not and I then further
tested that theory I went on a road trip with a friend and she
is into podcast but not as much as me.
And I was like, you know what, let's discover something new to
listen to. And in order to do that let's
listen to some trailers. And what we would do is we would
listen to a trailer, be intrigued by the concept and
then hit play on the episode and it often didn't match up and we
were like that's sort of a strange.
That's sort of a strange thing, you know like what does it take
to get it, right? So I started this podcast
because number one, I wanted to help people discover new
podcasts and it works as a discovery tool.
We found already, a lot of people are listening to the
trailers that we feature, listening to our discussion on
those and then going and listening to those podcast,
which is super cool. Then I also wanted to start it
because I want to help creators get exposed to different types
of trailers. So we've already, I think we've
already recorded add six episodes of the first season and
some of the trailers are really short.
Some are long, some are in Universe, some are not in
Universe. Some are some, are, you know,
they just really differ and it is fascinating to hear how
people distill down episodes and episodes of content into one
thing that might that might Intrigue people to hit play.
That's the thing, isn't us. The secret sauce that we're all
kind of Yearning to kind of fathom and it does take time to
do, that doesn't, and I know I've worked with various people
on a variety of audio fiction shows and been in some Taylor's
and been asked to record various things, both in character and
not. And yeah, I think it's a real
good mix and with regards to how people can get involved in that,
what do they need to do to if they wanted to ping you there
their Trail? Yeah, yeah.
So, Trailer Park podcast.com D.C. 0 is the website.
And if you go there, you can learn about the podcast.
You can see pictures of me and Tim my co-host and learn about
our background, you can listen to the podcast.
Podcast on your podcast, player of choice.
We have all the buttons listed and then you can also submit
your own trailer. So it takes you to a Google
Forum where you can tell us about your show.
You can tell us about your trailer.
You can tell us how the trailer sort of fits into the overall
world of your show and and then you can share the audio with us
and right now we have over 160 submissions which is amazing.
I've blown away. I mean we got featured in a
bunch of different newsletters and people are very people are
always looking. For promotion.
So I understand why this is a necessary thing and so great.
Yeah, we all spoke. Oh my god.
Discoverability of the thing, isn't it?
I mean, that is the kind of golden egg of podcasting as far
as I understand it and so shows like this a superb on the
landscape to help that kind of move along and, and you've
obviously, as well, been one of the faces and voices that people
have consulted with of to help them Market their shows.
And I think that for Audio Drama, Folks who a lot of us are
wearing all the hats and doing quite a lot of the jobs.
It's not kind of all about, you know, there's a team of eight to
20 people working on things and I think they'll worry about
running out of steam because you're just doing so.
So so much. What are the key things that you
would say is a kind of publicist helping people who are, you
know, thinner on the ground with help to help that
discoverability and bring attention to this.
Yeah. How do you not run out of steam?
I think is really important. I think the first thing to think
about is What do you want out of your show?
You know, if your goal is tens of thousands of downloads on
every episode, you might want to roll that back a little bit and
come up with something that is a little bit more achievable in
the short term because you are going to get disappointed.
And I'm not saying this for everybody, there could be some
people out there who have really hit the nail on the head.
They've really figured out who Their audience is and you are
able to get 10,000 downloads in your thinking, you know, I'm up
to the next. I want 100,000 downloads good
for you, but I think a lot of people listening to this are
struggling. Sling and and want more
listeners. And this really feeds back to a
larger problem in the podcast industry, which is that we need
more listeners. We need more people who want to
listen to podcasts and don't want to create podcasts.
Just want to be entertained by podcast and that's a big thing
that I'm working on in 2023 is how do we get more people from 0
to 1 listening to 0 podcast, to listening to just one podcast?
Because my theory is if you listen to one, you're probably
gonna listen to two. You're probably gonna listen to
Three. The average person in the u.s.,
there was just a study that came out, said that people The
average podcast listener listens to seven episodes and how do you
become one of those seven episodes?
So you need to think about why your podcast deserves a place on
that mantle. So I think in order to make that
happen you need to have realistic goals.
So that could be, I want to use my podcast to potentially get a
job or I want to use my podcast to meet people in my industry or
I want to use my podcast to practice my public speaking
skills. You know, there's, there's a
bunch of things that you can look to Without necessarily
saying, I need to have X number of downloads.
And I know it feels validating to have the spike in your
podcast hosting player. I know, I know I get it, I host
multiple podcasts and I'm constantly checking that but I
am also constantly checking myself to say, you know what,
there are other positive things that came out of this week's
episode than just the spike in downloads.
Yes. Feedback for one thing, right?
People talking to out of the Void.
So exciting. That's worth a million trillion
download as far as I'm concerned.
And I think with that alongside that kind of comes The fear of
putting yourself out there too. And some people are kind of
unsure as to how to promote without looking like they're
spamming everywhere and I don't know if you have any tips on
that kind of thing and do you put any weight on where you can,
you know, upload them on things like completely forgotten all of
the names of the things where you can Priya front-load your
publicity and then it sends them up later as regards.
Sample. Yeah, things like that.
So, yeah. I'm on those kind of pre front,
loading things like later. Have you got any?
Hold on those, or do you think I don't have those?
Okay, I think again back to your original question of what can
people who are stretched thin due to not burn out, I think yes
social media is important but it's not the only thing.
And in fact, I would recommend spending time on other aspects
of promotion rather than social And I'll get into that in just a
second but I think another part of not burning out another part
of, you know maybe you're the only person on your team who
promotes your podcast, maybe there's just a few people who
promote your podcast, maybe it's you, and two other people in
you, you share responsibilities, I think in addition to making
sure your goals are achievable. You also want to build breaks
into everything. So maybe you, maybe you have a
show and it really takes a lot out of your week to produce it.
It tell yourself that you are going to have an eight-episode
season. And then after the eighth,
eighth episode and eight is an arbitrary number, could be 10,
could be 20 whatever, but make sure you're building a break
into that. Make sure after the X number of
episode, make sure after you hit that episode, you're saying, all
right, let's take a break. Let's analyze what went well
what could go better? Which episodes had the biggest
spikes what within those episodes caused the biggest
spikes and maybe we can replicate that in the next
season. And it also allows you to look
back and create new artwork. And create a new press release
and Pitch to podcast, listening apps with a quote-unquote new
season, our new series or miniseries within, and that is
newsy. And people are looking for
things that are new Z in order to promote them and just think
about your own behavior as a user.
I think about your own experience as somebody who
consumes media in, there are amazing shows that are always on
that you might love but you sort of forget about and even if even
if you do consume them week after week after week you're
probably not posting about Them week after week after week
saying this was the best episode I ever heard because they are
just consistently good. So, if you let yourself have a
break, come back with a new season, you can create hype
around that new season, and then people are much more likely to
share about it and to be excited with you that you've got this
whole new thing going on. So I really advocate for taking
a break and building that into your production schedule, but
back to social media, Do I mean? Yeah, with regards to social
media, I mean, gosh, there's Twitter Discord, slack, Reddit
Tumblr, YouTube, I mean, who it can be overwhelming and I know
that some people have said before to like, pick two or pick
one and just do that really. Well, I mean, what do you think
is their kind of best-case scenario for folks to jump in
on? I think the first question to
ask yourself is where do you actually like spending time on
social media? Because a lot of social media
sites can be toxic, you know, you might not like spending time
on Tick Tock, because you get sucked in.
And also, because Commons can get pretty - you know, but but
it also could be that you really love posting on Tick-Tock but it
could be that none of your potential audiences there.
So you need to sort of strike the balance there between where
you like to spend your time and where your listeners are.
And I think that information coming back from you'll pop,
culture is interesting, isn't it?
But it's sort of zhenya, only a tiny slice, really of the
reality. Sometimes because you are spread
across so many different places, right?
If you've put your podcast in a lot of lot of baskets.
So, yeah, I mean, how do you measure really that kind of
demographic. What other things can you do to
get that information back to think?
Yeah, I think that when choosing Which social media platforms to
be on, first of all, I would grab handles on almost all the
social platforms, you know, use your discretion.
You don't need to grab social media handles on like, on the
smaller. Forms that are just coming.
Oh, there's no one's coming out everyday because of Twitter,
going potentially bust and everyone's like, oh, we're going
to create a new social media to rule, all social medias,
probably not. So you don't need to grab social
handles on absolutely everything, but the big ones at
least reserve your handle. And then you can write in the
bayou or you can pin a post that says you know, we're not so
active on here, hit us up on Instagram or hit us up on
LinkedIn or wherever you are the most active, but it's good to
grab those handles. So that if people are on those
social media platforms and they want to Tag you and they want to
let you know that they listen to your show.
They can they can tag you and then maybe you can retweet it.
Maybe you log on once a week, once a month, whatever it is
interact with your fans there but then you spend the majority
of your time elsewhere. I think the best way to find out
where your listeners are is to ask them and that can be really
hard because you don't always hear from your listeners.
But I think if you don't always hear from your listeners, you
sort of need to from the listeners that you do hear from
take those opinions, take those comments Very seriously and
until you have more information, you sort of need to use those as
as gospel, you know, if the five listeners who do get back to you
every episode tell you, one thing about how the episode
went, then until you hear from more people, you gotta follow
those people. Absolutely.
And I think anybody who's ever retweeted or said anything about
India, if you are Legend and I love you very much.
A lot of people using various other tools, like headliner, for
example, to Ping out, little clips and things like that.
Are there Other ways of helping your podcast get noted using
kind of gadgets and tricks like that.
Do you think that like useful? Yeah, there are so many little
gadgets. And what I think is funny and I
don't think that people should get caught in.
This trap is, you know, audiograms are not the be-all
and end-all for podcast discoverability all they do
headliner, recast wave, there's a few different services that
will create essentially visual representations of your audio.
You know, sometimes it's descript does this sometimes,
Sam the transcript popping up on sometimes it's the words that
you're saying popping up on the screen in front of you and maybe
a waveform and maybe some images popping in and out and those can
be a really attractive way of creating a visual representation
of your podcast but they are not necessarily going to cause
people to listen to your podcast more.
They're going to maybe show up in the feed of wherever you post
it for some front, for some people who consume your social
media or some people who don't consume your social media
depending on. The algorithms and how far it
gets pushed out, but that doesn't mean that people are
going to think. Oh wow, that was an incredible
audiogram. Let me go check out that entire
podcast mostly because social media doesn't, it's not the best
way to bring people over to your show and that is all okay.
You should still post on social media, you should still
experiment with audiograms, you should still experiment with
different ways of getting people interested in the content that
you're producing but don't fall into the Trap of, oh, I posted
this. Why am I not going viral?
Why is my show? Getting tens of thousands of
downloads per episode because I worked really hard on this
audiogram, you should still work hard on the audiogram but remove
the weight from your shoulders, that just because you post a
quote unquote, perfect audiogram and now means you're going to
succeed. You know it's a long game and
you need to do all these things in conjunction and people need
to be able to get different touch points of you and the
content you're producing so that they think oh, you know what I
saw them on Twitter, I saw them on Instagram.
I saw them written about on a Blog.
I saw them on Apple podcast. Now, I'm going to go check out
their show. So groovy and that's the thing
is now I mean there are as you say, so many other ways of kind
of getting your podcast known and is there anyone you think
that's using publicity really well?
Like you can point people towards and think?
Yeah, that's not necessarily follow this model but look at
what they're trying to do. That's not just using social
media. Yes definitely.
I just scrolling through my things that I listen to, you
know, social media is interesting because a lot of
people think, it's the only way to get your show out there.
I mean, how else you gonna get your show up there?
Somebody asked me recently, what would you do to promote your
podcast, or how would podcasting be different if social media
didn't exist? And I said, that is just an
impossible question to answer, because social media has been
around since. I don't know, really 2005 maybe
even earlier, I don't But that's, I got Facebook in 2006.
And of course, promotion wasn't the same podcast, weren't the
same, but we have been promoting our projects on social media
since social media existed, and before that, we were writing
blogs the nineties. I think I was at Uni, and we
were using my space and stuff. So you're always promoting
things. I mean, who else is gonna do it
for you? So, you know, the other option
is, you know, getting written about on a blog post or be Being
maybe there's an interview with you that is in a local paper or
something like that and those are all great.
But where are you going to post about those?
You're probably going to post about them on social media, you
know. So it's sort of this whole cycle
of constantly trying to get press constantly trying to then
show off that pressed other people.
And all of this is in service of potentially pointing back to the
project that you want people to go check out, it could be a
podcast, could be a YouTube channel, could be a Blog, could
be your social media. So all of Unfortunately, we've
got to be active in a lot of places.
Yeah, yeah. But you asked for an example of
somebody who does a great job, not just using social media, but
of course, also using social media.
There is a podcast that I subscribe to, I subscribe to
many different podcasts, but somebody that I think that does
a really great job at this is her name is Courtney.
Cossack she has been a podcast producer for a long time.
She produces podcast Or herself and for other people for
herself. She produces now, three podcast,
one is called Private Parts Unknown.
It's about sex and relationships around the world.
It's a really beautifully done podcast.
She and a co-host. They get funding to go to
different parts of the world and interview people about what sex
and relationships are like in those places.
And the show is beautiful. It's really well, put together,
it's informative. I love that show.
I've been listening for a while. She also then started a podcast
called the bleeders about writing.
You know, what does it take to become a writer?
And conversations with people about books and movies.
And what does it take to be a writer?
And then she also just started a podcast in conjunction with her
newsletter. The newsletter is called podcast
bestie. Oh yes, I just saw that today,
appetizers. Yeah, good.
And then her newsletter is a, her podcast is also called
called podcast bestie. And I just think that she is
doing a great job, using her newsletter to promote her other
things. Yes, she uses.
Social media. Yes.
She takes screenshots from Um, her newsletter and post them on
social media, but those social media posts aren't the ones that
do super well. But they are really great way to
point back to what she wants people to point back to the
point, is she is using all of this to promote other things
within her media landscape. And I think that if you're
looking for somebody to sort of see how they're doing this and
maybe take some of those lessons, I think she's a really
great person to check out. Thank you.
Yeah. Put links on the show.
Nice for sure. And yeah, I mean, I think, Being
proactive about your own stuff is hard.
And that's the thing, isn't it? When you've created something
and spend all your energy into putting into the show, the last
thing you have kind of energy for is to spend like quite a lot
of time putting stuff out onto social media.
And I think one way that I've seen folks, like for example,
tell munir do a great job of things is to curate your own
lists of things that you like within your genre.
And I don't know if you know of other places Aces and other
things to get your podcast into bye-bye, doing your own kind of
proactive thing to promote other people's stuff.
Have you seen that done? But, yeah, I think a really big
part of growing your own show is doing the work to help other
people grow. I think, I hope this is the case
across the board in content creation across the internet,
but I really do think that podcasters uniquely understand
that in order to grow their own shows, they need to be
collaborating with other people and specifically not seeing
other Pull in their niche as competition but as potential
collaborators. So yes, taking the time to
create pod, Chaser lists, for example, where you can say, here
are the top 10 podcasts about. Let's say, museums and maybe you
also have a podcast about museums but then you're also
showing off, nine other people. And then you're posting about
that list. And then those people get to say
yeah I was included on this list, I think that's such a
great way to put Good Karma out into the world to be cheesy
about it. But also ultimately people are
going to click on that list and then They might discover your
podcast to. So I think, ultimately, the
people who succeed are the people, who who don't see this
as a as a, it's me or the highway kind of game if that's a
phrase, like, I think we really do benefit when we promote other
people. So, yes, pod, Chaser is a really
great way to create lists like that.
You can also create lists on Spotify and then your list on
Spotify. Depending I think on your
privacy can be followed by other people, which is pretty cool.
Same with God. Chaser people can follow you on
pod Chaser but yes, there's there's a bunch of different
Services where you can create lists.
There's also a bunch of different Services where you can
promote other people. I think a really good example of
this is if you have a newsletter on sub stack or if you have a
newsletter on beehive, you can create when you have your signup
form, you can promote other newsletters.
So if your newsletter is associated with your podcast, or
if your podcast is associated with your newsletter on sub
stack, that's a really great way to promote other people.
Well, to promote other creators and then they might want to do
the same for you in exchange. Yeah, for sure.
Not at want to give an example for William Jay Maiya.
He's a wonderful creative has been experimenting with putting
his audio dramas out using sub stack and so if you're using
that as a primary source of pushing out things into the
world and I've been sending me some updates and I definitely
will get him on the show to kind of reveal that the core in finer
detail. But essentially is body saying
is that the audio is being compressed in a way that audio
fiction folks probably. Like so that's something to keep
an eye on, but yeah, I think using these letters is
wonderful. I very much do enjoy like a
various newsletters. I will put some links to off
some of my favorites on our show notes for this episode.
And my only worry is that the kind of place becomes an
inundated with many newsletters and I'm finding it hard to keep
up with sort of generic podcast industry newsletters as well as
things coming out on my own genre.
Of audio fiction. So, I mean, how do you
prioritize your time and trying to keep up with what's
happening? Keep your finger on the pulse.
What do you do? And have forged a to try?
And yeah. So there is so much there is so
there are so many podcasts industry, newsletters media,
industry, newsletters, Creator, economy newsletters, and then
also podcasts on these topics as well.
And then there's also podcast recommendation, newsletters and
then there's also newsletters from specific podcasts that are
We have keeping up with the content they're in and they help
you consider whether or not you should tune into that week's
episode. If there's a topic within that,
might be interesting to you. And yeah, there are so many you
could read them all day long. How do I keep up?
I think I try to subscribe to as many as I possibly can.
And then I have a few that I will always read pod news inside
podcasting find that pod podcast, delivery podcast, the
newsletter pod stack, there's more.
And I don't mean to To be leaving anybody out by not
listening them, in the things that came off my head right now,
it's just that I have a cold and I cannot list forever.
And and then there are some that I will read, I will choose to
open the newsletter, the email, depending on the subject line.
And then sometimes I try to go against my, my initial reaction
and think, okay, maybe the subject line didn't interest me.
Maybe let me click open, anyway, to see if there's something else
within. So, I try to actively do that,
and not everybody is going to do.
That for you, not everybody's going to have this sort of
analytical approach to whether or not they open an email, but
I'm doing it specifically because I send out a lot of
emails, myself and I want to know when I am reading a news
letter, what makes me want to click on something?
You know, what is it about the call to action that you chose?
What is it about the link that or the wording that you choose
to highlight? That makes me want to click or
not want to click and I really try to register what language is
being used and how can I possibly use that language in my
new. As letter if it successfully
converted me to click, or if it converted me to the next stage,
in your content production workflow.
Right? Or you know, if you wrote in
your newsletter, check out my latest episode but you give me
no reason to do it. I'm probably not going to click
on it, but if you give me a really specific reason as to why
I should click this link to check out this episode, I'm more
likely to click it. And so I'm always thinking about
that. I'm always thinking, how can I
bring this to my clients? How can I bring this to my own
work? So yeah.
So I mean that was a Way of saying, I think I really just
try to keep up with with everything when possible.
This is it. I try and have a set routine of
Monday morning. Is my kind of catch-up time,
spend a good two hours, just sorting my to-do list out
getting the week, kind of organized, and then, and I with
a nice cup of tea, sit down and have a little less salt out, and
read a various things. And I think for me as well,
there's so many Fantastic things happening in their community and
I think because of the influx now as well, of a lot more crowd
funders. For example, not more people
seeking funding and I find it very difficult to kind of, you
know, support everybody even though 12.
But yeah I think that's the other thing is at least
retweeting that if it's on Twitter or putting a link out
for those kind of things is the best.
I can do sometimes, but I still bother, right?
And I think for me, that kind of thing of sharing and trying to
push out things that are happening in Specifically my
genre of podcasting I think is really important just to try and
help in my own little way. Right.
I think people over time. See you.
Well there's two it's twofold. People will over time if you are
an advocate for this industry, if you're an advocate for your
specific genre people will see you as an advocate and people
will look to you and give you opportunities because they know
that you really genuinely, love this right.
But then also people will see you as a curator of content and
That is awesome. That's a really great way to to
become well-known. You know, if you go to my
Twitter, you'll see, I am constantly promoting other
podcasts that I think are worth your time.
I'm constantly promoting other newsletters that I think are
great for podcasters of all shapes and sizes independent
Network. Otherwise I'm constantly
promoting, but I'm doing it carefully, right?
I'm not retweeting, every single possible thing.
I'm retweeting, the things that I think will reflect well to be
in my Orbit and in your orbit if you're following me.
So I think it's a It's a balancing act of yes you want to
help other people but you also want to make sure that when
somebody comes to your profile they are getting an accurate
representation of what you think is worth your time.
Amazing. And I mean you sound like you
could, you know you finger on the pulse of everything
definitely. And if folks wanted to hire
someone like your good self to help them with their podcast PR
or what have you what kind of budget do you think they're
looking at kind of ballpark wise to hire someone like you to help
them with all these kind of things?
Yeah. So I do most of my work through
a company called Tink with my friend, Lauren, Lauren pucelle.
If you're not familiar with her, she is awesome.
She is a huge advocate for the medium of podcasting.
She's just the best. She and I work together with a
bunch of different clients, some small, some large, and we do all
sorts of audience development. Work for them and it sometimes
it's straight-up audience development work like really
just helping to locate your audience and then figure out how
to reach them. And then other times, we like,
right, newsletters for you or run your social Or really
whatever you need. And, you know, it can be
anything from a one-hour Consulting session, which is 300
dollars to u.s. Dollars to working with us to do
absolutely everything for your show and that's like thirty five
hundred dollars a month. And then, of course, we have a
sliding scale based on needs, but that's the general, that's
the range. Yeah.
Superb and I think that's key to folks wanting that extra help,
you know, there is help available to you and I think
it's worth delving too. To getting some help, if you're
able to afford it with any kind of budget at all.
I mean, Community is obviously important to you because you are
as it says, the head of community in the squad cars.
What does that mean? Exactly what?
He's such, a good question for for Squad cast and I'll say
this, you will hear the word Community a lot.
It's very Buzzy. People love to say, I need to
build a community for my podcast.
I need to build a community for my newsletter.
I need to build a community for my product.
Whatever. You.
Necessarily need to there are so many different places on the
internet and not every single person who consumes every single
podcast wants to be part of every single community.
So again that's another way to take off of your shoulders.
Think about think about what community means to your
potential, to your listeners. You know.
Do they need to be part of a slack channel?
Do they need to be part of a Discord server?
Do they just need an Instagram where they can like share their
secrets with you via some sort of question box, Community can
mean different things to different podcasters, and And
two different consumers at different times.
So what it means for Squad, cast Squad cast is a remote recording
platform, that helps creators record studio, quality, audio
and video, and it's amazing. It's a really great way to make
sure that your audio sounds great.
That your, that your video looks great.
So, that when people tune in to your podcast, or they tune into
a YouTube version of your podcast, they are being served,
the best possible audio quality, and that's something that's
really important because there are so many other choices out
there and if your audio quality and if you're Video is not on
point. People might move on, you know,
they're there again. There's just so many choices.
So Squad cast, we have however many tens of thousands of people
using the service and some of those people want to be involved
Beyond just the the actions that they're doing while they're
recording their show. So maybe they log on they record
and then they have questions, right?
They have questions about how to grow your show, how to possibly
become the best, interviewer in their Niche, how to how to use
video for your podcast. How to, you know, you can come
up with tons of different topics and some people might want Squad
cast to be the people to teach that to them.
So my goal is to just have a really have my finger on the
pulse of the average customer of Squad cast have my finger on the
pulse of the average customer of Squad cast, and figure out what
they want from Squad cast and that that goes for both in the
app. You know what's going, well,
what other sorts of services do they want within the app?
But then also Beyond, you know, how can I make?
Sure that their podcast is successful, so that when they
succeed, they associate that with Squad cast so that they
want to stick with Squad cast forever.
So that's sort of my job. What that, what that means is
that? I manage our slack Channel.
I make sure that we are having regular events with within Squad
cast, ecosystem that are free and we are serving our greeters.
I'm always looking for ways to promote the people that you
Squad cast. So we have a weekly podcast
where we feature episodes recorded on Squad cast.
So anybody who records on Squad cast?
Can get their paws. The cast featured in our on our
podcast feed. We have a Blog where we like to
highlight the people that you Squad cast.
We do events and like I said, like I said, we do events, but
we also if you have something that you want to teach the
class, you are welcome to pitch that to me and other things like
this. So that's what I do.
As the head of community at Squad cast Superba, I've got say
it like as a podcast voice actor, Etc.
I do find social media, quite overwhelming, sometimes and
especially Like in the community LED places, where it's not just
audio fiction, Focus like all podcast, folks ever kind of
rushed in and this beautiful big space and how do you think folks
like me who feel like drowning a little bit in those kind of
environments? How can you kind of be a good
and inspiring affect your member of that kind of community
anything that they can do to take part and not feel too
overwhelmed? Yeah, I think I think it all
boils down to why are you making this podcast?
And I think, first and foremost, it needs to be for yourself, so
that if nobody else were listening to this would you
still make it and if it is still something that you would do, and
I've heard people say this a lot.
Even if nobody listened, I would still make it because it is fun
to make. But hopefully people do listen
along the way but hopefully you're getting something out of
it Beyond, just the recognition from the people that are
listening to it. So, for example, I have a
podcast about podcast recommendations and there are
How many people that listen to it but I do it because it pairs
really well with my podcast recommendation newsletter.
It gives me an opportunity to further highlight, the people
who are curating. The newsletter for me it gives
me an opportunity to further highlight my sponsors, and it
gives me an opportunity to test out technology and to play
around with my voice as a podcast host.
So I have multiple reasons for doing it.
I would say each episode gets maybe 500 downloads after a 30
day period, And I am okay with that.
Hmm, that's great. Well, I know there.
Was a Twitter thread. Very recently that looked at the
current kind of episode, download stats of, if you are
getting over, let's say you're in the top. 50%, if you're
getting over 29 in the first seven days, top 25, if you're
getting over 108, you're in the top 10, if you're getting over
420. So to be in that top 10, this is
groovy right Insurance. Then top 5 goes to 1016, top 1%
is 4760 one and I'll put a link to where I got that from in the
show. But yeah, it is.
I don't know, it's important. It depends when you what your
goals are for your show. And I think a lot of people will
say stop putting so much weight on the download but more so you
should care about your listen through rate so when people
start an episode or they actually listening through all
the way you know, our do they really care about every single
piece of your show or they dropping off after the first 10
minutes? And if they're dropping off
after the first 10 minutes, what are you doing?
To bore them? I just worry that people just
come to the show. Now, for the skit to the top,
we're doing, want to the internet kind of fun that.
But yes, that's a good point in like, if that's true, maybe you
put the skits in the middle, right?
No way. I'm joking.
I'm hoping, it's not turning people off, but, hey, but yeah,
it starts to cook my resnet of like, yeah, just trying to
balance everything. And, and I think that whole
thing of like often podcasters are doing several different
jobs, you know, as well as podcasting.
And when I say jobs, I'm including being a mom or dad,
That to, you know, those hats and that life balance is can be
quite difficult to to fit everything in.
So just as a little message for me and it's hard, isn't it?
I hope you're looking after yourselves, folks who've
listening you've got all those different balancing acts to to
do. I think you sort of need to see
it. As I mean you'll see a lot of
advice on the internet. That's like if you want your
podcast to be professional don't treat it like a hobby treat it
like a profession and it's sort of like that's a balance that
you need. Strike as well because I here's
an example. I had a podcast right at the
beginning of the pandemic, I ran it for about a year, a little
over a year with my friend Shira and it was called
counter-programming and the idea behind it was that there was so
much scary stuff going on in the news and we wanted to offer what
we called counter-programming. So you know, something that was
in opposition to the scary news, we wanted to offer something
counter to that counter programming.
And what we decided was we were going to take the title really
literally and each episode would focus on a different And
anything with the word count or counter in the title.
So we did an entire series on countertops marble.
Steel Granite would recycled glass laminate formica.
We could really we did it. We really did it and it was
ridiculous and it costs us money.
The show cost us money, right? Ultimately after we did have
some sponsors but we definitely did.
We were not in the positive. We did not make money from this
and the way that we Justified that was we said, you know what,
it was just like taking a dance class, it was just like taking a
Spanish class, it was just like, taking Take whatever it is.
It was like, it was like a hobby for us and we took it seriously,
but we also knew that we needed to put some money into it in
order to have this as something within our portfolio.
And I'm a Creator, I'm a podcaster.
So for me, it was an opportunity to play around with technology,
to play around with a comedy /, infotainment format.
And for my friend Shira, who at the time, was trying to become a
comedian, it was an opportunity for her to add this to her
resume, to add this to her portfolio.
So it was something that even though we spent money on We
considered it a hobby and hobby does not necessarily have to be
the opposite of professional. You know, you can be a hobby
podcaster, but you can also take it professionally.
Do you can take it, seriously. I love that.
You said that, I really think that's important for people to
take them both to hugely hugely with you.
Well, superb, superb. So now we have come to the time
for the quirky voices in DF. Quiz of audio loving Joy.
Are you ready? Yeah, you have got 30 seconds to
answer. Each question groovy music to go
with it. Chris go question 1.
Are you ready? I have 15 minutes bear to
publicize my show. What's the best use of my time?
15 or 50, 15, 15. That's all I know that I am
making a list of shows that I should be reaching out to, to
collaborate with. And I am pitching them.
Whether it's having me as a guest on their show or I am
asking them to play my trailer on the end of their episodes.
Okay. Question 2, I need inspiring to
get some Will content for my publicity.
Where do I look, what do I do? You subscribe to the podcast
marketing magic newsletter from my friend, Lauren Lauren who I
sell of course. Super number 3, I cannot do
effective. Social media posts, where do I
post to find someone to help me and how much of a budget you
think I might need you, subscribe to pod Spike, which is
a really great newsletter and service and they have a flexible
scalable I love spending and they will do social media but
they also will help you figure out what your maybe your podcast
artwork needs a revamp and they will help you with that and I
don't have the the pricing off the top of my head but they're
really great. New should take them out.
Pop spikes, Oppo. Thank you, question for someone.
Beautiful retweets my show or share it on social media post
somewhere, what is the best etiquette?
And how do I celebrate to get more traction?
You comment on their retweet and you say thank you so much for
sharing exclamation. And then if it's somebody really
big, you screenshot it and you go to canva and you make
something look really nice and you add your colors and you then
post that and you say wow, retweeted by this person.
So, excited question, 5. It is the day of my Show
release. What should my publicity
strategy include and how long should I spend doing it?
Hopefully you started doing it two weeks before your shows
released and on the day of your just sort of celebrating.
But on the day of, if you had no time to do something previously,
then. On the, on that day you are
posting on social, you are doing everything you possibly can to
create buzz. You are pitching to be featured
on podcast, listening apps, you are making a list of the other
shows that you should be collaborating with.
And you're asking them to do social posts about it.
You're asking them to mention it on their podcast.
You are really just doing everything you possibly can.
To make sure that your new show is in the minds of other people,
and the artwork is being prominently.
Displayed everywhere you've passed.
The audio fiction quiz the video loving Joy.
Ha ha. And I thank you for that.
And I think just for me as well, like, listenership, of course,
is there off all important in a way and yes, you can say that.
Yes, you must love making it too but say for example you've do
have an average of like between 10 20 30, listeners for your
show. How do you keep it kind of
motivated? Do you think to keep going and
what would you suggest to somebody who has got that to try
and build that audience? Where do you think they could
start Jenn? Yeah, I think.
Think the first thing that I would do in order to stay
motivated when you don't have that many listeners, i-i'm sorry
to say this but I think it really goes back to what is your
reason for doing this. And if you are enjoying it, if
you find that, this is fulfilling your soul that you
creatively you still feel inspired then keep doing it.
Right? And in order to grow the show,
the first thing I would do is become a guest on other
podcasts, but before that refine your message and make sure that
You are doing what you set out to do.
You know, is your show if it's an audio drama is what are your
goals for that Audio Drama? And if and if it's a show about
museums, and if it's a show about history, what are your
goals for that show? Is it to become a historian?
Is it to become? Well known in the museum world?
Are you even though you're only getting 10?
20 30 downloads per episode for your Museum podcast?
Are you prominently displaying the fact that you have a museum
podcast on your website and when you apply for jobs in the
museum, Space. Are you saying by the way?
Check out my really great show. That's beautifully produced and
I get to talk to all these people about this is it
positively contributing to your portfolio, if that's the case,
keep going. If it's not and you feel like
every single step of the way is pulling teeth, then you don't
need to pull those teeth if you hate doing this and you're, and
you really are just waiting for that big break stop.
I think. Like, a lot of people say, oh,
if you know, it's like pulling teeth to get people to subscribe
to my newsletter, or to join my Discord, or to join my slack
Channel. And within the slack Channel, I
feel like I'm the only one talking, Then stop.
You don't need to do that. Mmm-hmm find another way.
Cool and it hurts, but it's true.
That's the thing, isn't it? It's like, yeah but so many
things to put into putting something creative out into the
world, isn't there? And I think being introverted
extroverted is a lot of the kind of attributes.
I see Focus that I meet and talk to and then I want to say that
we're currently talking in women's history month right now.
And I don't know. There's still a dearth of show
Runners who are female identifying.
And I wonder if you've got any advice for women especially who
wanted to jump in and make podcast and create and their
amazing resources out there that not just for women.
But for everybody, you could do Point folks, to, to get the
confidence to get making. Yeah, there's a really great
Facebook group called she podcasts.
And I recommend being part of that Facebook group.
They also have a newsletter. They also have Live Events.
If you're in the u.s., I think, right now it's just u.s. events,
but it's cheap podcast live and the founders are Elsie Escobar
and Jessica kupferman, and they're just really
inspirational and great and they'll help you not only like
feel confident, but also hone your voice and learn about
resources and everything. Brilliant, thank you.
And I think just finally with regards to how folks are making
audio fiction today can just help their show in any way,
shape or form. What are the key things to you?
Feel everybody who's working in podcasting should start to
really do with ferocity? Hmm, I think it's really
important to be aware of the other shows that are doing well,
in your subject area, and the other shows that are similar to
yours and the other shows that are similar to yours but are not
doing well, it's important to keep your finger on the pulse of
all of these things so that you can respond to these People so
that you can if you like what they're doing, collaborate them
if you don't like what they're doing.
But you do see some positives to it.
You can, you know, you can think about what they're doing and
then maybe go in a different direction.
But I think the first step is being aware of this industry and
subscribing to pod news, which is a daily podcast newsletter
about the podcast industry. That shares also jobs and events
and news about new podcasts and news about trending topics.
And it's just such a great way to be aware of what else is
going on. On out there in this industry
that you are now a part of yeah. Super I mean what do you want to
hear more of as well? What's things that tell you
feel? There's some gaps in markets for
your listening pleasure. I have always been interested in
more instructive audio or geographically based audio.
I want to be able to go to a new city and find a podcast that
will walk me through that new city and tell me to look to my
right and see this old mural and here.
Story behind that mural. I think the technology is almost
there, but the geolocation is another aspect and that is what
I would really love ya. Think that's a groovy thing.
I know. Matthew MacLean was trying to
aim to do that for Edinburgh and Scotland, climbs, glasgow's
climbs, and, and yeah, I think that, you know, audio fiction as
well. Folks, there's some beautiful
real-life stories to be told in every single place in every part
of the world, right? So yeah, glorious.
I do get on that quick. Well, thank you hardly for
coming on today. It's a 24 for you to share these
brilliant, top tips, and thoughts.
And I hope that you are able to, to get some creative solace in
the making of your groovy shows. Is there anything that you feel
you want to promote so that people can find out what else
you're up? No, nothing in particular.
I guess just help more people find more podcasts to listen to
I think that if we all Listen to More podcasts, the world will be
a better place. I totally agree with that and
that's why this podcast exist in the first place to.
So hooray will thank you so much for coming on in dif, your
amazing. And keep doing what you're doing
and yeah, I really appreciate you sharing all this groovy
advice today and I certain it Alice this 42.
So have a groovy day and get well soon.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.